IRC log for #koha, 2009-03-20

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
15:00 hdl_laptop hi all
15:01 hdl_laptop any one able to tell me more about copynumber for marc21 ?
15:02 jwagner hdl_laptop, in what sense?  MARC standard? or within Koha?
15:03 nahuel jwagner, in MARC standard
15:04 gmcharlt in a MARC21 holdings record (or holdings info embedded in bib), usually found in the 852 $t
15:06 jwagner I was looking at the Library of Congress site -- zeroing in on what gmcharlt says, take a look at
15:07 nahuel gmcharlt, but in koha stock-number is in 037
15:08 nahuel melm 037        Identifier-standard,Stock-number (in zebra config)
15:08 gmcharlt that's different from a copy number
15:08 gmcharlt stock number is assigned by publisher or distributor
15:09 nahuel ah
15:09 gmcharlt copy number is what a library assigns to a particular item
15:09 nahuel we're looking for a way to have an "inventory number"
15:09 gmcharlt inventory number assigned by library or by a third party?
15:09 nahuel by library
15:10 gmcharlt probably should define a new item field for that
15:11 gmcharlt I assume that these inventory numbers are distinct from the item barcodes?
15:12 nahuel yes they are
15:12 nahuel but in unimarc we do not really know in which field put it...
15:12 nahuel and to make a search on it to permit auto increment, etc...
15:12 nahuel well code something link autobarcode
15:13 gmcharlt they should increment per new item, not per new bib, correct?
15:13 nahuel yes
15:13 nahuel like barcode
15:13 nahuel it works identically as barcodes, but they're not barcodes :)
15:14 nahuel in usa you don't use inventory numbers?
15:14 gmcharlt some libraries do, but it's relatively rare
15:14 gmcharlt most just use the barcode as the unique ID
15:15 nahuel in france barcode is different as inventory
15:15 gmcharlt I'm curious, why have two unique identifiers for items?
15:16 nahuel yes :)
15:16 nahuel frenchy style
15:16 gmcharlt accident of history, I guess :)
15:16 nahuel don't know, i think paul or hdl will know more about the story
15:16 gmcharlt in any event, an inventory number sounds like just another item attribute
15:16 nahuel else, do you have any idea how we can implement this, without having to create a new index in zebra ?
15:18 gmcharlt well for HEAD, such a field should have a new index
15:19 nahuel yes, but how to manage autoincrementation?
15:20 jwagner Can you do something with a table value for autoincrementing?  Read current value, add one, write new value?
15:20 nahuel yes :)
15:20 nahuel but which table ? :)
15:21 gmcharlt generalize the item barcode incrementing code
15:21 nahuel add a field in "items" table ?
15:21 gmcharlt adding a fields to items is the default solution
15:21 gmcharlt I'm tempted to suggest creating a new item_identifiers table, but that may be overkill
15:22 jwagner It sounds like this would be pretty specialized use -- not relevant to a lot of sites.  I don't know the "sense of the community" yet on adding new tables versus expanding standard ones for limited use things like this.
15:22 gmcharlt well, that depends
15:22 gmcharlt it's usually quicker to just add another column
15:23 gmcharlt but putting identifiers in a separate table would add more flexibility at cost of taking longer to implement
15:23 jwagner As I understand the process, if you alter the table structure you record that so that the next upgrade would make the change automatically on new sites.  Correct?  That should be pretty much invisible to sites.
15:24 gmcharlt yeah, but that also applies to new tables
15:25 jwagner Six of one, half-dozen of the other....
15:25 kf hey there, german academic libraries need inventory numbers too
15:25 kf its by law
15:25 gmcharlt it may be debatable whether this would be a limited use feature, actually - sure, not many US libraries would use it, but if it's common in Franc,e, and perhaps other Continental libraries,
15:25 gmcharlt that's still a lot of libraries
15:25 nahuel well :)
15:25 nahuel kf, oh yes ! that's why !
15:25 nahuel :)
15:25 kf i used 952$i
15:25 gmcharlt and I hear kf chiming in ;)
15:25 kf but its not mapped to item yet
15:25 nahuel legal reason for inventory number
15:25 jwagner Yes.  Are the French & German requirements the same?
15:26 nahuel jwagner, not really :)
15:26 kf sorry, but its an important topic we discussed here too
15:26 kf just came back to office and started reading
15:27 jwagner If they have different requirements, maybe designing a new table to accomodate both would work best?
15:27 kf its by item, additional two barcode, hopefully unique (if there were no mistakes in the past)
15:27 nahuel jwagner, hmm or add a field in items
15:27 gmcharlt any subfields defined in the MARC framework for the items tag that are not mapped to an items column
15:27 kf the libraries will also need in inventory book, all items, deleted marked as deleted with date and so on
15:27 gmcharlt do get automatically sent to items.more_subfields_xml
15:28 gmcharlt and are thus available for item editing and Zebra searching
15:28 gmcharlt that's how kf's 952$i works
15:29 nahuel hmmm
15:29 kf gmcharlt: i tried linking to more_subfields_xml but got strange output, nice to know how it works now :)
15:29 nahuel but generally they're autoincremented fields
15:29 gmcharlt auto increment could be done with a cataloging plugin, though of course you'd want to avoid a query that scans each item in the DB to look for the next value
15:29 nahuel if the field content is only in xml and zebra
15:29 nahuel how can we easily autoincrement it ? :)
15:30 nahuel gmcharlt, i'm writing it
15:30 kf i thought about changing plugin for inventory numbers, they often look like 2009/1 (annual barcode version)
15:30 nahuel but we were asking where we must stock it
15:30 gmcharlt I'd be inclined to add a new column to the items table, and possibly index it
15:30 gmcharlt particularly if those inventory numbers are meant to be used in reports
15:30 nahuel gmcharlt, ok so we can add a new column ?
15:30 gmcharlt sure, I have no objection to that
15:30 nahuel gmcharlt, they should be used in acquisition module too
15:31 gmcharlt in which case there could be times you would want to use SQL to look up an inventory number
15:31 gmcharlt so having it mapped to a new column would enable that
15:31 kf so for reports you need a column in items? i thought i could solve the inventory book with reports
15:31 gmcharlt one question - does anybody assign *two* or more inventory numbers per items
15:32 kf nahuel: acquisition + inventory number ++
15:32 gmcharlt ?
15:32 nahuel well, for the moment mysql 5.1 is not in stable linux distro, we cannot made this in other way
15:32 kf no
15:32 nahuel in mysql 5.1 we can make xpath in sql queries
15:32 kf but sometimes there is only one inventory number, for examlpe for all issues of an serial in a year
15:32 nahuel gmcharlt, only one inventory number
15:32 gmcharlt right, but that has to be more expensive that an index on a column
15:32 kf but not more than one inventory number per item
15:33 nahuel gmcharlt, of course :)
15:34 gmcharlt main thing is that since the barcode autoincrement and inventory autoincrement code wouild be doing similar things, but perhaps with different templates
15:34 kf i think an new column would be a great solution, and possibilty to add acquisitin numbers in serials and acquisition
15:34 gmcharlt should be implemented with the same code
15:34 nahuel gmcharlt, differents templates and uses
15:34 nahuel gmcharlt, yes
15:36 nahuel gmcharlt, well, so you think I can add a new column in items ?
15:36 gmcharlt items.inventory_number ++
15:37 nahuel ok great i'll do this :)
15:37 nahuel and try to make some "generic" code for autobarcode and autoinventorynumber
15:38 gmcharlt check with atz - I know he has some opinions on the autobarcode code
15:38 kf items.inventory_number üü
15:38 kf ++
15:38 nahuel ok
15:38 atz everything but incremental should die.
15:38 kf nahuel, do frech libraries also need an inventory book?
15:38 atz that's my opinion.
15:38 nahuel atz, die ?
15:38 kf to keep track about deleted items?
15:38 atz be deleted and cease to exist.
15:38 nahuel kf, what do you mean by "inventory book" ?
15:39 nahuel kf, oh yes
15:39 nahuel kf, of course
15:39 nahuel atz, what do you mean ?
15:39 atz the barcode is a *machine* identifier.  it should not include any human-readable semantic ANYTHING
15:40 nahuel inventory number are not "human-readable"
15:40 atz the main problem was that people will turn off/on autobarcode settings
15:40 kf nahuel: when migrating it should be possible to import old accession_numbers, they sometimes look different over time, for example 90/234 and 2001/12
15:41 atz and incremental setting works fine... until you have some crap from another setting in the DB
15:41 nahuel atz, yes, we should improve this feature
15:41 atz then incremental breaks because it can't do  "MAIN200807++"
15:41 nahuel to have something like a "sequence" table
15:42 atz i don't mind if you want to do some kind of automatic generation w/ another field though
15:42 kf i saw something like that in another system, you could also define a prefix and a suffix for numbers there, and an icremental part
15:44 nahuel yep i'll see
15:44 atz yeah, the thing is that I can always define a different standard in the same namespace
15:44 nahuel i'll make an autoincrementation function
15:44 nahuel that take some "model"
15:46 nahuel thanks atz gmcharlt and kf  :)
15:46 nahuel not it's time to code :)
15:46 nahuel s/not/now/
15:46 gmcharlt have fun
15:46 nahuel just another question
15:46 nahuel where is used "greybox" which is present in koha-tmpl
15:47 gmcharlt used in a couple places to display a MARC record in a floating div
15:47 ryan_ nahuel: it was used in marc preview in z39.50 search
15:47 nahuel ok, but no more used ?
15:48 gmcharlt manage-marc-import, also for bib preview
15:48 gmcharlt why do you ask?
15:48 nahuel because we just see it, and never see some code that use it
15:49 gmcharlt well, it is used
15:49 gmcharlt actually, I'd like to see some more use of it, to cut down on the number of popup windows in the intranet
15:49 nahuel gmcharlt, i'm agree with you :)
15:50 nahuel popup are... bad
15:50 kf g
15:53 nahuel atz, where should I implemente the inventory number generator ?
15:53 nahuel I see there is a C4::Barcode
15:53 atz nahuel: that's not really used by anything
15:53 atz (last I checked anyway)
15:55 atz it is what I intended to be a replacement for the existing code
15:55 nahuel ho ok
15:55 nahuel you're right
15:55 atz it is better than what we have now... and more modular/extensible...
15:56 nahuel yes it's what I see
15:57 nahuel But How to make it generic for inventory too
15:57 nahuel It should be named differently
15:57 gmcharlt build on the code, and rename?
15:57 nahuel CodeGenerator
15:57 atz nahuel: yeah, that would make sense
15:58 gmcharlt SequenceGenerator
15:58 atz better name ^^
15:58 nahuel yep :)
15:58 nahuel ok well I'll do this
16:03 gmcharlt nahuel++
16:03 nahuel hehe
16:04 atz nahuel: the perldoc explains how to add a subclass
16:04 nahuel ok, i'll follow the model, (and rename it)
16:04 atz sounds good
16:13 kf nahuel ++
16:15 atz the number of resources on CCL is incredibly small
16:15 atz i can't even find a book on Amazon that has more than an academic discussion of it... and even those are from the 90's!
16:16 kf leaving work now, bye #koha :)
16:16 atz ttyl kf
16:16 atz gmcharlt: I get how to build things with the numeric representation...
16:17 atz but how do I get the defined word/terms into the query?
16:17 gmcharlt CCL is more of a convention than a formal standard
16:18 gmcharlt regarding your question, are you asking how C4::Search constructs queries to send to Zebra?
16:18 atz gmcharlt: actually there is an corresponding ISO spec
16:19 gmcharlt which nobody follows precisely
16:19 atz hey, welcome to the world of library standards
16:19 atz "not really about standardization after all"
16:20 atz i want to query so that zebra "knows" i'm targetting a numeric field
16:20 atz w/o having to put it in-line in the query
16:20 atz i changed the definition for "notforloan"
16:20 atz and added the info that it is a numeric field (because it is)
16:21 atz but it still strips "-1" as the search term down to "1" unless I add 4=109 to the query itself
16:22 gmcharlt notforloan 1=8008 4=109
16:22 gmcharlt like you did should work
16:23 gmcharlt stupid question time: did you change the copy of in the Koha run directory that zebrasrv is actually using?
16:23 gmcharlt or just the copy in your git clone
16:23 atz hmm... good question.  i better check
16:27 atz interesting... there are a few updates I need to pull in from the git version apparently
16:31 atz ok, same results
16:32 gmcharlt what RPN query is actually getting sent?
16:33 atz i'll try whatever...
16:33 atz f @attr 1=notforloan -1
16:33 atz for example
16:33 gmcharlt no, I meant what query the zebrasrv showing that it's receiving
16:33 atz SearchResult-1: term=1 cnt=0
16:34 atz the "term" is changed
18:00 atz gmcharlt:   the query: f @attr 1=notforloan -1
18:01 atz is received in the zebra log as: Search biblios OK 0 1 1+0 RPN @attrset Bib-1 @attr "1=notforloan" -1
18:02 atz but the yaz-client response still reads:  SearchResult-1: term=1 cnt=0
18:24 gmcharlt atz: may be a case where just trying the OPAC search after making that change to is sufficient
18:24 gmcharlt[…]?q=ccl=onorder:-1
18:25 gmcharlt or rather
18:25 gmcharlt[…]ccl=notforloan:-1
18:36 gmcharlt that's the idea
18:36 gmcharlt atz: just the change by itself works for me
18:40 atz gmcharlt: ok, must be an issue w/ getting my -1 properties updated into the index then... rebuilding
18:49 atz wow... modified 503 bibs
18:54 atz gmcharlt: great, i'll submit the patch
19:01 chris morning
19:02 imp moin
19:03 chris
19:03 chris hotel will shuttle us to a baseball game for anyone who is interested :)
19:04 atz chris: sounds fun
19:07 jwagner Chris, I'm a big baseball fan -- I'd be interested.
19:08 chris ive never seen baseball live, only bits and pieces on the tv
19:08 chris so im looking forward to it
19:08 chris so ill be expecting people to tell me what the heck is going on :)
19:09 atz chris: it's like a 90-degree arc of cricket...
19:09 jwagner You can _see_ the game better on TV (camera closeups etc.), but nothing beats actually being in the ballpark.  We'll educate you :-)
19:09 SelfishMan mmm...nasty stadium food
19:09 jwagner I've had to try to explain things to my nieces, like the hand signals and baserunning moves.  I know perfectly well what's going on, but darned if I can put it into words.
19:10 mason morning all
20:05 chris sorry got distracted by work
20:05 chris ahh cool
21:43 brendan chris - I will definitely be excited to help you understand the game -- I owe you for the cricket education I'm getting...
21:43 brendan ;)
21:44 brendan chris -- somethings will transfer nice from ckricet
22:14 chris cool
22:38 chris i hate printers
22:38 imp .oO(always the same with printers - if you really need them, they may behave quite strange)
22:39 chris yep
22:40 slef I mean with  $printingtype eq 'PATCRD'
00:55 mason im futzing with slip-printer stuff over here too..
00:57 mason hooking up the commented-out network-printing  and cookies stuff
00:58 mason i'll hopefully work out a way to wrap it in a 'basic|networked' printing syspref
00:59 chris awesome
01:01 mason looks like the old 1yr-expiry printercookie - is replaced with a X-mins cgisession cookie
01:02 mason which may turn a librarian postal
01:02 chris *nod*
01:03 chris yeah that stuff all got ripped out, because people dont understand how to set up a networked printer and print queues
01:03 chris or something .. i forget
01:04 mason yeah, looks like it..
01:05 mason home-user/librarian != sys-admin
01:07 mason but still , the old code was pretty good for proper 'enterprise-capable' slip-printing
01:07 chris yep, just need to syspref it like you say
03:29 Amit hi chris, mason, brendan
03:29 Amit chris: what about match ;)
04:33 Owner hey Amit
05:11 Amit hi greenmang0
05:12 brendan hey Amit --
05:13 Amit hi brendan
05:13 brendan what's the score for the match at now? or is it over
05:37 chris nope 2 more days
05:38 chris well maybe jut one more
05:38 chris india all out for 520
05:38 chris nz 75/3
05:49 greenmang0 Amit:
05:51 Amit hi chris
05:51 Amit brendan india is in good position
07:06 brendan ohh...  india is in a good position.
07:06 chris yep, i would be very very suprised if india dont win
07:10 Amit right chris
07:10 Amit !!!
07:10 chris id be very suprised if they dont win all the tests actually
07:24 chris hi nicomo
07:24 nicomo hi chris
07:26 chris[…]imported-to-koha/
07:29 Amit hi nicomo
07:29 nicomo hi Amit
08:07 Amit hi kf
08:08 kf hi Amit
09:45 Amit hi greenmang0 ;)
09:45 greenmang0 Amit: hello
09:46 hdl_laptop hi Amit greenmang0
09:46 greenmang0 hdl_laptop:
09:46 Amit hi hdl
09:47 Amit hi kivutar
09:48 Kivutar hi Amit
09:53 Amit greenmang0 r u from india
09:55 greenmang0 you have asked this question to me few days back
09:55 greenmang0 Amit: i think you doubt my nationality
09:56 greenmang0 Amit: yes i am an indian
09:56 Amit no
09:56 greenmang0 :P
09:56 Amit i m just asking only
09:56 Amit ;)

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