| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 15:00 |
|
hdl_laptop |
hi all |
| 15:01 |
|
hdl_laptop |
any one able to tell me more about copynumber for marc21 ? |
| 15:02 |
|
jwagner |
hdl_laptop, in what sense? MARC standard? or within Koha? |
| 15:03 |
|
nahuel |
jwagner, in MARC standard |
| 15:04 |
|
gmcharlt |
in a MARC21 holdings record (or holdings info embedded in bib), usually found in the 852 $t |
| 15:06 |
|
jwagner |
I was looking at the Library of Congress site -- zeroing in on what gmcharlt says, take a look at http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd852.html |
| 15:07 |
|
nahuel |
gmcharlt, but in koha stock-number is in 037 |
| 15:08 |
|
nahuel |
melm 037 Identifier-standard,Stock-number (in zebra config) |
| 15:08 |
|
gmcharlt |
that's different from a copy number |
| 15:08 |
|
gmcharlt |
stock number is assigned by publisher or distributor |
| 15:09 |
|
nahuel |
ah |
| 15:09 |
|
gmcharlt |
copy number is what a library assigns to a particular item |
| 15:09 |
|
nahuel |
we're looking for a way to have an "inventory number" |
| 15:09 |
|
gmcharlt |
inventory number assigned by library or by a third party? |
| 15:09 |
|
nahuel |
by library |
| 15:10 |
|
gmcharlt |
probably should define a new item field for that |
| 15:11 |
|
gmcharlt |
I assume that these inventory numbers are distinct from the item barcodes? |
| 15:12 |
|
nahuel |
yes they are |
| 15:12 |
|
nahuel |
but in unimarc we do not really know in which field put it... |
| 15:12 |
|
nahuel |
and to make a search on it to permit auto increment, etc... |
| 15:12 |
|
nahuel |
well code something link autobarcode |
| 15:13 |
|
gmcharlt |
they should increment per new item, not per new bib, correct? |
| 15:13 |
|
nahuel |
yes |
| 15:13 |
|
nahuel |
like barcode |
| 15:13 |
|
nahuel |
it works identically as barcodes, but they're not barcodes :) |
| 15:14 |
|
nahuel |
in usa you don't use inventory numbers? |
| 15:14 |
|
gmcharlt |
some libraries do, but it's relatively rare |
| 15:14 |
|
gmcharlt |
most just use the barcode as the unique ID |
| 15:15 |
|
nahuel |
in france barcode is different as inventory |
| 15:15 |
|
gmcharlt |
I'm curious, why have two unique identifiers for items? |
| 15:16 |
|
nahuel |
yes :) |
| 15:16 |
|
nahuel |
frenchy style |
| 15:16 |
|
gmcharlt |
accident of history, I guess :) |
| 15:16 |
|
nahuel |
don't know, i think paul or hdl will know more about the story |
| 15:16 |
|
gmcharlt |
in any event, an inventory number sounds like just another item attribute |
| 15:16 |
|
nahuel |
else, do you have any idea how we can implement this, without having to create a new index in zebra ? |
| 15:18 |
|
gmcharlt |
well for HEAD, such a field should have a new index |
| 15:19 |
|
nahuel |
yes, but how to manage autoincrementation? |
| 15:20 |
|
jwagner |
Can you do something with a table value for autoincrementing? Read current value, add one, write new value? |
| 15:20 |
|
nahuel |
yes :) |
| 15:20 |
|
nahuel |
but which table ? :) |
| 15:21 |
|
gmcharlt |
generalize the item barcode incrementing code |
| 15:21 |
|
nahuel |
add a field in "items" table ? |
| 15:21 |
|
gmcharlt |
adding a fields to items is the default solution |
| 15:21 |
|
gmcharlt |
I'm tempted to suggest creating a new item_identifiers table, but that may be overkill |
| 15:22 |
|
jwagner |
It sounds like this would be pretty specialized use -- not relevant to a lot of sites. I don't know the "sense of the community" yet on adding new tables versus expanding standard ones for limited use things like this. |
| 15:22 |
|
gmcharlt |
well, that depends |
| 15:22 |
|
gmcharlt |
it's usually quicker to just add another column |
| 15:23 |
|
gmcharlt |
but putting identifiers in a separate table would add more flexibility at cost of taking longer to implement |
| 15:23 |
|
jwagner |
As I understand the process, if you alter the table structure you record that so that the next upgrade would make the change automatically on new sites. Correct? That should be pretty much invisible to sites. |
| 15:24 |
|
gmcharlt |
yeah, but that also applies to new tables |
| 15:25 |
|
jwagner |
Six of one, half-dozen of the other.... |
| 15:25 |
|
kf |
hey there, german academic libraries need inventory numbers too |
| 15:25 |
|
kf |
its by law |
| 15:25 |
|
gmcharlt |
it may be debatable whether this would be a limited use feature, actually - sure, not many US libraries would use it, but if it's common in Franc,e, and perhaps other Continental libraries, |
| 15:25 |
|
gmcharlt |
that's still a lot of libraries |
| 15:25 |
|
nahuel |
well :) |
| 15:25 |
|
nahuel |
kf, oh yes ! that's why ! |
| 15:25 |
|
nahuel |
:) |
| 15:25 |
|
kf |
i used 952$i |
| 15:25 |
|
gmcharlt |
and I hear kf chiming in ;) |
| 15:25 |
|
kf |
but its not mapped to item yet |
| 15:25 |
|
nahuel |
legal reason for inventory number |
| 15:25 |
|
jwagner |
Yes. Are the French & German requirements the same? |
| 15:26 |
|
nahuel |
jwagner, not really :) |
| 15:26 |
|
kf |
sorry, but its an important topic we discussed here too |
| 15:26 |
|
kf |
just came back to office and started reading |
| 15:27 |
|
jwagner |
If they have different requirements, maybe designing a new table to accomodate both would work best? |
| 15:27 |
|
kf |
its by item, additional two barcode, hopefully unique (if there were no mistakes in the past) |
| 15:27 |
|
nahuel |
jwagner, hmm or add a field in items |
| 15:27 |
|
gmcharlt |
any subfields defined in the MARC framework for the items tag that are not mapped to an items column |
| 15:27 |
|
kf |
the libraries will also need in inventory book, all items, deleted marked as deleted with date and so on |
| 15:27 |
|
gmcharlt |
do get automatically sent to items.more_subfields_xml |
| 15:28 |
|
gmcharlt |
and are thus available for item editing and Zebra searching |
| 15:28 |
|
gmcharlt |
that's how kf's 952$i works |
| 15:29 |
|
nahuel |
hmmm |
| 15:29 |
|
kf |
gmcharlt: i tried linking to more_subfields_xml but got strange output, nice to know how it works now :) |
| 15:29 |
|
nahuel |
but generally they're autoincremented fields |
| 15:29 |
|
gmcharlt |
auto increment could be done with a cataloging plugin, though of course you'd want to avoid a query that scans each item in the DB to look for the next value |
| 15:29 |
|
nahuel |
if the field content is only in xml and zebra |
| 15:29 |
|
nahuel |
how can we easily autoincrement it ? :) |
| 15:30 |
|
nahuel |
gmcharlt, i'm writing it |
| 15:30 |
|
kf |
i thought about changing barcode.pl plugin for inventory numbers, they often look like 2009/1 (annual barcode version) |
| 15:30 |
|
nahuel |
but we were asking where we must stock it |
| 15:30 |
|
gmcharlt |
I'd be inclined to add a new column to the items table, and possibly index it |
| 15:30 |
|
gmcharlt |
particularly if those inventory numbers are meant to be used in reports |
| 15:30 |
|
nahuel |
gmcharlt, ok so we can add a new column ? |
| 15:30 |
|
gmcharlt |
sure, I have no objection to that |
| 15:30 |
|
nahuel |
gmcharlt, they should be used in acquisition module too |
| 15:31 |
|
gmcharlt |
in which case there could be times you would want to use SQL to look up an inventory number |
| 15:31 |
|
gmcharlt |
so having it mapped to a new column would enable that |
| 15:31 |
|
kf |
so for reports you need a column in items? i thought i could solve the inventory book with reports |
| 15:31 |
|
gmcharlt |
one question - does anybody assign *two* or more inventory numbers per items |
| 15:32 |
|
kf |
nahuel: acquisition + inventory number ++ |
| 15:32 |
|
gmcharlt |
? |
| 15:32 |
|
nahuel |
well, for the moment mysql 5.1 is not in stable linux distro, we cannot made this in other way |
| 15:32 |
|
kf |
no |
| 15:32 |
|
nahuel |
in mysql 5.1 we can make xpath in sql queries |
| 15:32 |
|
kf |
but sometimes there is only one inventory number, for examlpe for all issues of an serial in a year |
| 15:32 |
|
nahuel |
gmcharlt, only one inventory number |
| 15:32 |
|
gmcharlt |
right, but that has to be more expensive that an index on a column |
| 15:32 |
|
kf |
but not more than one inventory number per item |
| 15:33 |
|
nahuel |
gmcharlt, of course :) |
| 15:34 |
|
gmcharlt |
main thing is that since the barcode autoincrement and inventory autoincrement code wouild be doing similar things, but perhaps with different templates |
| 15:34 |
|
kf |
i think an new column would be a great solution, and possibilty to add acquisitin numbers in serials and acquisition |
| 15:34 |
|
gmcharlt |
should be implemented with the same code |
| 15:34 |
|
nahuel |
gmcharlt, differents templates and uses |
| 15:34 |
|
nahuel |
gmcharlt, yes |
| 15:36 |
|
nahuel |
gmcharlt, well, so you think I can add a new column in items ? |
| 15:36 |
|
gmcharlt |
items.inventory_number ++ |
| 15:37 |
|
nahuel |
ok great i'll do this :) |
| 15:37 |
|
nahuel |
and try to make some "generic" code for autobarcode and autoinventorynumber |
| 15:38 |
|
gmcharlt |
check with atz - I know he has some opinions on the autobarcode code |
| 15:38 |
|
kf |
items.inventory_number üü |
| 15:38 |
|
kf |
++ |
| 15:38 |
|
nahuel |
ok |
| 15:38 |
|
atz |
everything but incremental should die. |
| 15:38 |
|
kf |
nahuel, do frech libraries also need an inventory book? |
| 15:38 |
|
atz |
that's my opinion. |
| 15:38 |
|
nahuel |
atz, die ? |
| 15:38 |
|
kf |
to keep track about deleted items? |
| 15:38 |
|
atz |
be deleted and cease to exist. |
| 15:38 |
|
nahuel |
kf, what do you mean by "inventory book" ? |
| 15:39 |
|
nahuel |
kf, oh yes |
| 15:39 |
|
nahuel |
kf, of course |
| 15:39 |
|
nahuel |
atz, what do you mean ? |
| 15:39 |
|
atz |
the barcode is a *machine* identifier. it should not include any human-readable semantic ANYTHING |
| 15:40 |
|
nahuel |
inventory number are not "human-readable" |
| 15:40 |
|
atz |
the main problem was that people will turn off/on autobarcode settings |
| 15:40 |
|
kf |
nahuel: when migrating it should be possible to import old accession_numbers, they sometimes look different over time, for example 90/234 and 2001/12 |
| 15:41 |
|
atz |
and incremental setting works fine... until you have some crap from another setting in the DB |
| 15:41 |
|
nahuel |
atz, yes, we should improve this feature |
| 15:41 |
|
atz |
then incremental breaks because it can't do "MAIN200807++" |
| 15:41 |
|
nahuel |
to have something like a "sequence" table |
| 15:42 |
|
atz |
i don't mind if you want to do some kind of automatic generation w/ another field though |
| 15:42 |
|
kf |
i saw something like that in another system, you could also define a prefix and a suffix for numbers there, and an icremental part |
| 15:44 |
|
nahuel |
yep i'll see |
| 15:44 |
|
atz |
yeah, the thing is that I can always define a different standard in the same namespace |
| 15:44 |
|
nahuel |
i'll make an autoincrementation function |
| 15:44 |
|
nahuel |
that take some "model" |
| 15:46 |
|
nahuel |
thanks atz gmcharlt and kf :) |
| 15:46 |
|
nahuel |
not it's time to code :) |
| 15:46 |
|
nahuel |
s/not/now/ |
| 15:46 |
|
gmcharlt |
have fun |
| 15:46 |
|
nahuel |
just another question |
| 15:46 |
|
nahuel |
where is used "greybox" which is present in koha-tmpl |
| 15:47 |
|
gmcharlt |
used in a couple places to display a MARC record in a floating div |
| 15:47 |
|
ryan_ |
nahuel: it was used in marc preview in z39.50 search |
| 15:47 |
|
nahuel |
ok, but no more used ? |
| 15:48 |
|
gmcharlt |
manage-marc-import, also for bib preview |
| 15:48 |
|
gmcharlt |
why do you ask? |
| 15:48 |
|
nahuel |
because we just see it, and never see some code that use it |
| 15:49 |
|
gmcharlt |
well, it is used |
| 15:49 |
|
gmcharlt |
actually, I'd like to see some more use of it, to cut down on the number of popup windows in the intranet |
| 15:49 |
|
nahuel |
gmcharlt, i'm agree with you :) |
| 15:50 |
|
nahuel |
popup are... bad |
| 15:50 |
|
kf |
g |
| 15:53 |
|
nahuel |
atz, where should I implemente the inventory number generator ? |
| 15:53 |
|
nahuel |
I see there is a C4::Barcode |
| 15:53 |
|
atz |
nahuel: that's not really used by anything |
| 15:53 |
|
atz |
(last I checked anyway) |
| 15:55 |
|
atz |
it is what I intended to be a replacement for the existing code |
| 15:55 |
|
nahuel |
ho ok |
| 15:55 |
|
nahuel |
you're right |
| 15:55 |
|
atz |
it is better than what we have now... and more modular/extensible... |
| 15:56 |
|
nahuel |
yes it's what I see |
| 15:57 |
|
nahuel |
But How to make it generic for inventory too |
| 15:57 |
|
nahuel |
It should be named differently |
| 15:57 |
|
gmcharlt |
build on the code, and rename? |
| 15:57 |
|
nahuel |
CodeGenerator |
| 15:57 |
|
atz |
nahuel: yeah, that would make sense |
| 15:58 |
|
gmcharlt |
SequenceGenerator |
| 15:58 |
|
atz |
better name ^^ |
| 15:58 |
|
nahuel |
yep :) |
| 15:58 |
|
nahuel |
ok well I'll do this |
| 16:03 |
|
gmcharlt |
nahuel++ |
| 16:03 |
|
nahuel |
hehe |
| 16:04 |
|
atz |
nahuel: the perldoc explains how to add a subclass |
| 16:04 |
|
nahuel |
ok, i'll follow the model, (and rename it) |
| 16:04 |
|
atz |
sounds good |
| 16:13 |
|
kf |
nahuel ++ |
| 16:15 |
|
atz |
the number of resources on CCL is incredibly small |
| 16:15 |
|
atz |
i can't even find a book on Amazon that has more than an academic discussion of it... and even those are from the 90's! |
| 16:16 |
|
kf |
leaving work now, bye #koha :) |
| 16:16 |
|
atz |
ttyl kf |
| 16:16 |
|
atz |
gmcharlt: I get how to build things with the numeric representation... |
| 16:17 |
|
atz |
but how do I get the defined word/terms into the query? |
| 16:17 |
|
gmcharlt |
CCL is more of a convention than a formal standard |
| 16:18 |
|
gmcharlt |
regarding your question, are you asking how C4::Search constructs queries to send to Zebra? |
| 16:18 |
|
atz |
gmcharlt: actually there is an corresponding ISO spec |
| 16:19 |
|
gmcharlt |
which nobody follows precisely |
| 16:19 |
|
atz |
hey, welcome to the world of library standards |
| 16:19 |
|
atz |
"not really about standardization after all" |
| 16:20 |
|
atz |
i want to query so that zebra "knows" i'm targetting a numeric field |
| 16:20 |
|
atz |
w/o having to put it in-line in the query |
| 16:20 |
|
atz |
i changed the ccl.properties definition for "notforloan" |
| 16:20 |
|
atz |
and added the info that it is a numeric field (because it is) |
| 16:21 |
|
atz |
but it still strips "-1" as the search term down to "1" unless I add 4=109 to the query itself |
| 16:22 |
|
gmcharlt |
notforloan 1=8008 4=109 |
| 16:22 |
|
gmcharlt |
like you did should work |
| 16:23 |
|
gmcharlt |
stupid question time: did you change the copy of ccl.properties in the Koha run directory that zebrasrv is actually using? |
| 16:23 |
|
gmcharlt |
or just the copy in your git clone |
| 16:23 |
|
atz |
hmm... good question. i better check |
| 16:27 |
|
atz |
interesting... there are a few updates I need to pull in from the git version apparently |
| 16:31 |
|
atz |
ok, same results |
| 16:32 |
|
gmcharlt |
what RPN query is actually getting sent? |
| 16:33 |
|
atz |
i'll try whatever... |
| 16:33 |
|
atz |
f @attr 1=notforloan -1 |
| 16:33 |
|
atz |
for example |
| 16:33 |
|
gmcharlt |
no, I meant what query the zebrasrv showing that it's receiving |
| 16:33 |
|
atz |
SearchResult-1: term=1 cnt=0 |
| 16:34 |
|
atz |
the "term" is changed |
| 18:00 |
|
atz |
gmcharlt: the query: f @attr 1=notforloan -1 |
| 18:01 |
|
atz |
is received in the zebra log as: Search biblios OK 0 1 1+0 RPN @attrset Bib-1 @attr "1=notforloan" -1 |
| 18:02 |
|
atz |
but the yaz-client response still reads: SearchResult-1: term=1 cnt=0 |
| 18:24 |
|
gmcharlt |
atz: may be a case where just trying the OPAC search after making that change to ccl.properties is sufficient |
| 18:24 |
|
gmcharlt |
http://gmc.dev.kohalibrary.com[…]?q=ccl=onorder:-1 |
| 18:25 |
|
gmcharlt |
or rather |
| 18:25 |
|
gmcharlt |
http://gmc.dev.kohalibrary.com[…]ccl=notforloan:-1 |
| 18:36 |
|
gmcharlt |
that's the idea |
| 18:36 |
|
gmcharlt |
atz: just the ccl.properties change by itself works for me |
| 18:40 |
|
atz |
gmcharlt: ok, must be an issue w/ getting my -1 properties updated into the index then... rebuilding |
| 18:49 |
|
atz |
wow... sync_items_in_marc_bib.pl modified 503 bibs |
| 18:54 |
|
atz |
gmcharlt: great, i'll submit the patch |
| 19:01 |
|
chris |
morning |
| 19:02 |
|
imp |
moin |
| 19:03 |
|
chris |
http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=activities |
| 19:03 |
|
chris |
hotel will shuttle us to a baseball game for anyone who is interested :) |
| 19:04 |
|
atz |
chris: sounds fun |
| 19:07 |
|
jwagner |
Chris, I'm a big baseball fan -- I'd be interested. |
| 19:08 |
|
chris |
ive never seen baseball live, only bits and pieces on the tv |
| 19:08 |
|
chris |
so im looking forward to it |
| 19:08 |
|
chris |
so ill be expecting people to tell me what the heck is going on :) |
| 19:09 |
|
atz |
chris: it's like a 90-degree arc of cricket... |
| 19:09 |
|
jwagner |
You can _see_ the game better on TV (camera closeups etc.), but nothing beats actually being in the ballpark. We'll educate you :-) |
| 19:09 |
|
SelfishMan |
mmm...nasty stadium food |
| 19:09 |
|
jwagner |
I've had to try to explain things to my nieces, like the hand signals and baserunning moves. I know perfectly well what's going on, but darned if I can put it into words. |
| 19:10 |
|
mason |
morning all |
| 20:05 |
|
chris |
sorry got distracted by work |
| 20:05 |
|
chris |
ahh cool |
| 21:43 |
|
brendan |
chris - I will definitely be excited to help you understand the game -- I owe you for the cricket education I'm getting... |
| 21:43 |
|
brendan |
;) |
| 21:44 |
|
brendan |
chris -- somethings will transfer nice from ckricet |
| 22:14 |
|
chris |
cool |
| 22:38 |
|
chris |
i hate printers |
| 22:38 |
|
imp |
.oO(always the same with printers - if you really need them, they may behave quite strange) |
| 22:39 |
|
chris |
yep |
| 22:40 |
|
slef |
I mean label-print-pdf.pl with $printingtype eq 'PATCRD' |
| 00:55 |
|
mason |
im futzing with slip-printer stuff over here too.. |
| 00:57 |
|
mason |
hooking up the commented-out network-printing and cookies stuff |
| 00:58 |
|
mason |
i'll hopefully work out a way to wrap it in a 'basic|networked' printing syspref |
| 00:59 |
|
chris |
awesome |
| 01:01 |
|
mason |
looks like the old 1yr-expiry printercookie - is replaced with a X-mins cgisession cookie |
| 01:02 |
|
mason |
which may turn a librarian postal |
| 01:02 |
|
chris |
*nod* |
| 01:03 |
|
chris |
yeah that stuff all got ripped out, because people dont understand how to set up a networked printer and print queues |
| 01:03 |
|
chris |
or something .. i forget |
| 01:04 |
|
mason |
yeah, looks like it.. |
| 01:05 |
|
mason |
home-user/librarian != sys-admin |
| 01:07 |
|
mason |
but still , the old code was pretty good for proper 'enterprise-capable' slip-printing |
| 01:07 |
|
chris |
yep, just need to syspref it like you say |
| 03:29 |
|
Amit |
hi chris, mason, brendan |
| 03:29 |
|
Amit |
chris: what about match ;) |
| 04:33 |
|
Owner |
hey Amit |
| 05:11 |
|
Amit |
hi greenmang0 |
| 05:12 |
|
brendan |
hey Amit -- |
| 05:13 |
|
Amit |
hi brendan |
| 05:13 |
|
brendan |
what's the score for the match at now? or is it over |
| 05:37 |
|
chris |
nope 2 more days |
| 05:38 |
|
chris |
well maybe jut one more |
| 05:38 |
|
chris |
india all out for 520 |
| 05:38 |
|
chris |
nz 75/3 |
| 05:49 |
|
greenmang0 |
Amit: |
| 05:51 |
|
Amit |
hi chris |
| 05:51 |
|
Amit |
brendan india is in good position |
| 07:06 |
|
brendan |
ohh... india is in a good position. |
| 07:06 |
|
chris |
yep, i would be very very suprised if india dont win |
| 07:10 |
|
Amit |
right chris |
| 07:10 |
|
Amit |
!!! |
| 07:10 |
|
chris |
id be very suprised if they dont win all the tests actually |
| 07:24 |
|
chris |
hi nicomo |
| 07:24 |
|
nicomo |
hi chris |
| 07:26 |
|
chris |
http://www.calyx.net.au/2009/0[…]imported-to-koha/ |
| 07:29 |
|
Amit |
hi nicomo |
| 07:29 |
|
nicomo |
hi Amit |
| 08:07 |
|
Amit |
hi kf |
| 08:08 |
|
kf |
hi Amit |
| 09:45 |
|
Amit |
hi greenmang0 ;) |
| 09:45 |
|
greenmang0 |
Amit: hello |
| 09:46 |
|
hdl_laptop |
hi Amit greenmang0 |
| 09:46 |
|
greenmang0 |
hdl_laptop: |
| 09:46 |
|
Amit |
hi hdl |
| 09:47 |
|
Amit |
hi kivutar |
| 09:48 |
|
Kivutar |
hi Amit |
| 09:53 |
|
Amit |
greenmang0 r u from india |
| 09:55 |
|
greenmang0 |
you have asked this question to me few days back |
| 09:55 |
|
greenmang0 |
Amit: i think you doubt my nationality |
| 09:56 |
|
greenmang0 |
Amit: yes i am an indian |
| 09:56 |
|
Amit |
no |
| 09:56 |
|
greenmang0 |
:P |
| 09:56 |
|
Amit |
i m just asking only |
| 09:56 |
|
Amit |
;) |
