IRC log for #koha, 2005-09-03

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
13:59 owen Hi meushi... I didn't see you come in.
14:10 meushi hi owen
14:10 meushi sorry for the lag :)
14:11 owen I don't think I've seen you here before
14:12 meushi indeed not, first visit... discovered koha this morning
14:12 owen How'd you hear about it?
14:13 meushi through an email at work
14:13 meushi another department had issues with it
14:13 meushi so I looked into it
14:13 owen Uh oh... issues? :)
14:13 meushi only one left for today is barcodes :D
14:14 meushi which version of PDF::API2 is supposed to work for barcodeGenerator?
14:14 owen Barcodes are a toughy
14:14 meushi yeah
14:15 meushi if I knock that one out, the only issue remaining for later adoption of the product is unicode
14:17 owen Okay...Looks like version 0.3r77 is what it needs
14:20 meushi cool, I'll get that one tomorrow
14:20 owen What template are you using?
14:20 meushi default one
14:21 meushi I just had a few hours to play with it, so I didn't tweak anything yet
14:21 meushi then I'll probably need to have a look at their current fugly hack of a solution to get the data over
14:22 owen Where are you located, if you don't mind me asking?
14:22 meushi Luxembourg, Europe
14:23 meushi oh
14:23 meushi close to Athens, by any chance?
14:23 owen Yup.
14:23 meushi hehe
14:23 meushi I've got a few friends in there
14:24 owen The public library where I work has a branch in Athens:
14:25 meushi nice
15:54 owen Hi russ
15:54 russ hi owen
15:55 rach hi
15:57 owen Hi to rach too.
15:58 owen So when does it start looking like Spring there?
15:58 russ today :-)
15:58 rach yesterday was officially spring
15:59 russ and it is nice and sunny here today
16:00 russ hi shaun
16:00 shaun hi russ
16:01 shaun i've been playing with kea, squashing out some bugs in the html and transferring html 4 to xhtml (although still no promised homepage patch)
16:01 russ cool - one thing with the page editor
16:02 russ i am not sure what kind of html it generates
16:03 shaun hmm, i'm sure the latest version does xhtml 1.0
16:03 shaun i've noticed a problem - is there any way we can get the title style "Koha | About > FAQ" style rather than just "FAQ" without messing up the breadcrumbs and auto navigation?
16:04 russ it would be ok for the navigation - cos we can overide the defualt title with a "short name"
16:04 russ but the bread crumbs would break
16:04 russ they run solely off the page title
16:05 chris yep
16:05 shaun so i'll have to unbreak them and just go with the section title then :-(
16:06 russ sorry - all the katipods are aware kea is not perfect
16:06 owen That's why they won't release it ;)
16:07 shaun (would be an awesome open source cms, i reckon)
16:07 russ that may happen soon
16:08 russ we have a new skin for the file manager interface coming - which should make it a bit better looking
16:08 shaun is there no code that will make the breadcrumbs run off the short name rather than the page title?
16:09 russ i'll ask but i don't think so
16:10 rach breadcrumbs were done first in the coding of kea - a few years before the short names
16:10 chris i could whack up some code
16:10 chris but we have about 100 sites now
16:10 chris so it wont be going live without rigourous testing .. ie probably not before the site is finished :-)
16:11 shaun there has to be - although it may take some configurating, you should be able to get the same thing as in the navigation, methinks
16:11 chris yep of course
16:11 chris just have to write the code to do it
16:11 chris but as i said, im not doing it on the live kea server :-)
16:11 chris and now i have to go to a drs appt
16:11 shaun do you have one kea install per server or per site?
16:12 rach nope - one big kea server
16:12 rach that does all the sites
16:13 rach so one kea per server - and we have a nice place to go set up new sites, and new users, and join you up to different sites
16:13 russ we actually have about 4 kea servers, but that is a long story
16:14 russ for the purposes of this discussion one kea per server
16:14 rach they all run multiple sites
16:28 shaun russ: i take it you've got a plan for getting the search and news running?
16:28 russ oh yep
16:29 russ one of the lads will install the news module todya
16:29 russ and the search wont work on the edit site
16:29 russ but i will get someone to set it up for the live site
16:30 russ we'll use htdig (is what we normally use)
16:31 russ do you want to do a layout for the search results page?
16:32 russ
16:32 shaun yeah, that's why i was asking - i planned on using <dl> for the search results
16:32 shaun ht://Dig error
16:33 shaun htsearch detected an error. Please report this to the webmaster of this site. The error message is:
16:33 shaun Unable to read configuration file
16:33 russ oh right go to the home page of and search on something
16:34 shaun that's all good, although <b> should be done in css
16:35 russ yeah i am not sure how easy that is to change with htdig
16:38 russ kados you around?
16:45 meushi gnite
16:45 meushi and thanks for the help owen :)
16:46 shaun i'm off too (getting tired)
16:46 shaun russ: have we got a deadline for the site?
16:47 russ id like to get the content this week
16:48 russ so that we can go live by the end of next week
16:48 russ i mean content this weekend
16:48 russ if i dont get content by wednesday, i will just start plugging in the old stuff
16:49 shaun i will do a run through before it goes live to make sure it's all good for WCAG and compliant
16:50 shaun s/compliant/compliance
19:22 Irma G'day Russel about?
19:22 chris hes just at lunch irma
19:23 Irma Hi Chris U r OK?
19:23 chris yep, looking forward to the weekend and catching up on some sleep :)
19:24 chris how bout urself?
19:27 Irma crazy pace but well....have just about finalized with Brenda Mc Conchie the research task for the ACT Department of Education ...looking at ILS for their highschools
19:28 Irma hence could not join in the IRC meeting yesterday...suddenly needed to expand on some aspects...all is ok again and ready for the website proofreading/editing this weekend
19:29 genji hmmm? aussie highschools could be taking up Koha?
19:29 genji All of them, in ACT?
19:30 chris ahh cool irma
19:30 Irma I made a visible Koha presence in the argument
19:30 genji Sweet! well done Irma!
19:31 Irma the email from the librarian in Alaska was timely...could not get hold of Steve in BC but Steven in Ohio found some links I could insert into the report...
19:32 chris cool
19:32 Irma can't chat long next job is lurking impatiantlly around the desktop already...
19:32 chris have a good weekend, ill let russ know about the proof reading
19:33 Irma enjoy the w/e and will try to catch Russel after the staff meeting in the late afternoon
19:33 chris cool
19:35 Irma ciao genji...this Koha for government schools makes so much sense to me seeing librarians are naturals at networking/sharing stretching the dollar...but a mind shift takes let's wait and see.
19:35 genji yup. Eager to see NZ schools using koha, instead of forking out for Dynix or whatever they use.
19:36 genji Hey, just this year, Palmerston North Library upgraded from Dynix to another more guied, prettier and fuller featured Dynix product.
19:37 genji Could of took that money and shoved it into Koha, for much better.
19:37 Irma and paid?      yep..I'll better get on with another time again. Bye.
20:30 kados chris got a sec?
20:30 russ hi kados
20:30 kados hey russ
20:30 kados how do I publish something when I've uploaded it?
20:31 chris ah luckily ive just set up triggering
20:31 chris it will depend if you have rights too kados
20:31 kados ahh ... maybe I don't then ...
20:31 chris on the bottom of the page
20:31 kados I really like Kea btw .... nice job
20:31 chris Action on checked files:
20:31 kados i see notify, move, rename, copy delete
20:31 chris ahh there you go
20:31 chris you can notify
20:32 kados k
20:32 chris which sends an email
20:32 chris to ppl with trigger rights
20:32 kados to irma i suppose ... our editor
20:32 chris and then they can read it and trigger it live
20:32 kados then to rach for final approval
20:32 kados k ... thanks
20:32 russ kados you have notify
20:32 kados now ... I'm a bit confused about navigation
20:32 russ actually that remind me
20:32 kados for the 'support' page for instance
20:33 russ yep
20:33 kados do we have plans to have second-level navigation?
20:33 kados or a column for the third level?
20:33 russ ?
20:33 russ what do you want to do?
20:34 kados well ... not sure really
20:34 kados looks like right now all the content I can add is just text
20:34 russ what kind of other content do you want to add?
20:34 kados am I also expected to include links to the next level of content?
20:34 russ no - kea will make those links for you
20:35 russ when you make a new page
20:35 russ it will add that page to the side navigation
20:35 russ are you logged into the edit site at the moment?
20:35 kados ahh
20:35 kados yea
20:35 kados I got it now ... this is really sweet
20:35 russ cool
20:36 russ the lhs side nav shows you all the pages in the folder plus the index page of any sub folder
20:37 kados russ: o users were found with trigger rights over this file.
20:37 kados russ: s/no/o/
20:37 russ ah right
20:37 russ yep 2 secs
20:37 kados I tried that with 'awards.html'
20:38 kados ok new question
20:38 kados nevermind ... I see the 'index.html' in awards dir
20:38 russ kados try the notify now
20:39 kados russ: k ... I think it worked
20:40 russ has edited the following file and requests that it be triggered to the live site:
20:40 russ[…]-koha/awards.html
20:40 russ To trigger the file please follow this link:
20:40 russ just got that email
20:40 kados cool
20:40 russ so yep that is all good
20:40 kados nice ... it worked
20:40 kados or did it ... is it live now?
20:41 kados or am I just seeing the edit screen again ;-)
20:41 chris nope it wont be live until someone triggers it
20:41 russ no not untill i action the trigger
20:41 chris you have just notified that you want it triggered
20:41 russ i am picking that nothing on the site has been triggered yet
20:41 chris and then it will show up at the live site
20:41 chris which is on a whole different machine
20:41 kados ahh
20:41 russ but you can preview the edit site
20:41 russ
20:41 kados wow ...
20:42 chris which is the feature i like best about kea
20:42 chris it doesnt (in fact shouldnt) run on the same box as the live site
20:42 kados yea ... that rocks
20:42 kados russ: for the pay for support site ... I want to run something by you
20:43 russ sure
20:43 kados russ: I'm thinking we should have that be the main support page
20:43 kados with links to 'other support' for IRC, lists etc.
20:43 kados since this site is really a marketing site for admins, etc.
20:43 kados what do you think?
20:43 russ what i was thinking
20:44 russ is that we should push the whole it is your choice
20:44 russ and that the support page would advertise the 2 options
20:44 russ and then on the free support page
20:44 russ we could give some pointers along the lines of - these are volunteers
20:44 russ you are asking - so be nice type of thing
20:44 russ and then have the other option with the companies
20:45 russ i am picking the community is still keen to offer some level of "free" support?
20:45 kados hmmm
20:45 kados right ... well here's what I'm thinking
20:45 kados based on the history here
20:46 kados Koha features never change through 'volunteer' efforts ;-)
20:46 kados it's just a historical fact for this project
20:46 kados we dont' have a large enough user base
20:46 chris hmm dunno about that
20:46 kados all the major features and most of the minor features have come from paying developers
20:46 kados really?
20:46 chris theres gotta be at least 200hrs of volunteer labour in there from me
20:47 kados hehe
20:47 kados yea ... that's true
20:48 chris plus the whole C4::Context module
20:48 kados well ... how sustainable is that chris? ;-)
20:48 chris andrew wrote that, with no financial gain
20:48 kados andrew?
20:49 chris i forget his last name, started with a also
20:49 chris arsenberger perhaps
20:49 kados anyway, my thought is simply that maybe the 'main' focus be on getting commercial support
20:49 kados with plenty of links to 'free' options as well
20:49 chris yep as long as we have all the links to free stuff thats good
20:49 kados I think that's a good approch for two reasons
20:50 kados one, it's good for those of us trying to support Koha (advertising)
20:50 chris ppl still freak out at free stuff
20:50 kados two, I think libraries (at least in the US) are skeptical of 'purely volunteeer' stuff
20:50 kados yea
20:51 kados it's a strange thing to observe
20:51 chris yeah, its a sad but true attitude
20:51 chris if someone does it for free, it must suck
20:51 kados heh ... yea
20:51 chris when often the reverse is true
20:51 kados yep
21:01 russ sorry just on the phone
21:08 russ kados - i dont have a problem with the main support page being the pay for support
21:08 russ but i think we should have a seperate page explaining how the whole free support thing works
21:27 kados definitely!
21:33 russ ideally if we get a bunch of companies offering support
21:33 russ then we will need regional pages
21:33 russ but i think 1 page should cover it for now
21:33 kados russ: right
21:35 kados russ: should the 'koha team' bios be a new level or should they be on the same page?
21:35 kados russ: I'm thinking a new page for each bio or one new page for all the bios
21:40 russ how many bios?
21:41 russ kaitiaki, 3.0 release manager, 2.2. release maintainer and who else?
21:42 russ if we are going to have multiple pages i think an intro page that has some information about the make up of the koha team would be a good idea
21:42 kados yea ... working on that right now ...
21:42 kados but that page prolly shouldn't have bios on it
21:42 russ no
21:43 russ so make a folder for it, index page with general team makeup and then sep pages for bios
21:43 russ i think that is a good idea
21:45 kados k
21:52 kados russ: well ... some stuff is up there now
21:53 russ cool
21:53 russ how is kea going for you so far?
21:54 kados I love it
22:01 kados ok ... I'm exhausted ... gotta get some sleep
22:01 russ catch you later
23:25 thd- Are any Kea people present?
23:34 genji Ya, I know Kea. What do you need?
23:34 genji thd-?
23:37 thd- genji: I had noticed soemthing odd at[…]ontentmanagement/ where I find no images.
23:38 genji you see no images at all?
23:39 thd- genji: maybe just an unusual case of something broken.  There is no base url set in a meta tag so as I am using Opera from someone elses computer I see no images on that page from the relative image links.
23:40 genji ahh. so, what your really asking, is if a Katipo site Kea editor could fix it, eh?
23:41 thd- genji: I imagined that I may have found a general problem but there appears to be no problem on the tutorial pages. I have not checked whether the images are absolute or relative on the tutorial pages.
23:56 thd- genji: links seem to be relative in both the Kea tutorial and[…]ontentmanagement/ .  No meta element for base URL is present in either case.  Yet, the images work in Opera for the tutorial only.
23:58 thd- genji: Do you see images on[…]ontentmanagement/ ?
00:04 thd- hello russ
00:04 russ hi thd
00:04 russ hmm that is weird
00:04 russ those images are there
00:04 russ hmm
00:04 thd- russ: Not in Opera
00:04 russ weird
00:05 russ that is an old page that would have been created pre the new editor
00:05 chris[…]/kea-overview.gif that work for you thd ?
00:05 thd- russ: I see the image areas as blank pages.
00:06 chris cos <img height="166" alt="Kea Overview" src="/images/content/kea-overview.gif" border="0" width="400" /> is hte code
00:06 chris which all looks pretty standard to me
00:07 russ thd - how are you going with the content you are down to write?
00:07 thd- s/pages/regions
00:07 russ i can give you a login to the cms if you are ready to upload it
00:07 russ i just need your email address
00:08 thd- I am not back home yet but I am editing some content at a friends place now.
00:08 thd- russ:
00:09 thd- chris:[…]/kea-overview.gif displayed in Opera.
00:10 chris very weird, there seems nothing tricky in the html
00:10 chris but then i purposely avoid learning html, so my opinion doesnt count for much
00:11 russ two secs thd
00:12 thd- chris: You learn that much extra Perl instead of HTML? :)
00:13 chris if i learn it, someone will ask me to write it :-)
00:13 russ thd just msg your your login details
00:14 russ there are some details on kea and references on where to go for howto's here
00:14 russ[…]webredev/kea.html
00:17 russ thd any questions about kea drop me an email
00:23 thd- chis: HTML is usually easier to debug.  Perl is certaily more fun to create.  HTML is a merely a markup language.  Doing innovative things in a markup language only breaks compatibility.
00:29 thd- chris: One can be innovative with HTML without breaking compatibility.  It just requires care and learning to use the oldest instead of the newest HTML tags.
00:34 thd- I find this expanation confusing, "Orange (with text struck through) untriggered delete: The file has been deleted from the edit site but not from the live site. File needs to be triggered to action delete. (Moving a file will create a modified file in the new location, and on untriggered delete in the old location)"
00:35 thd- from[…]ial1/colours.html
00:37 chris hmmm i suspect a bad cut and paste
00:37 chris ahh no a typo
00:37 chris it should be
00:37 chris moving a file will create a modified file in the new location, and an untriggered delete in the old location
00:37 chris on = an
00:39 chris fixed
00:40 thd- chris: I noticed but did not comment on the typo.  That I understood.  The previous sentence is unclear.
00:41 chris right youve read this eh?
00:41 chris[…]torial1/edit.html
00:42 chris no changes you make on the edit site (including deletes) will be made on the live site, until you trigger those changes live
00:42 chris only certain people have the permissions to trigger also
00:43 thd- chris: yes, I guess the use of action as a verb had confused me.
00:43 thd- chris: "to action"
00:43 chris ah right
00:43 chris we say that in new zealand english
00:44 thd- chris: Really, that is a common convention?
00:44 chris yep
00:44 chris to action this change you will need to reply to this email
00:45 thd- chris: Does it appear in print as well or more usually in the spoken form?
00:46 chris im fairly certain ive had it print form from places like banks offering me things
00:46 thd- chirs: How old is this usage?
00:47 chris no idea
00:47 chris Finance was well placed to action these changes in a timely manner. Prior to the Prime Minister's announcement on 23 November 2001
00:47 chris the australians seem to use it also :-)
00:47 thd- chris: I will have to consult the OED, 2nd ed. when I have a chance.
00:47 chris[…]+changes%22&hl=en
00:48 chris oh we dont have to follow the OED down here
00:48 chris oxfords a long way away from new zealand :-)
00:48 chris[…]+changes%22&hl=en
00:48 chris looks like they use it in the uk as well
00:49 thd- chris: The OED project intends to record all English not just the home counties.
00:49 chris phrase searching on google is a wonderful thing :)
00:51 chris right tis 5.51pm on a friday, time for me to finish work I feel
00:51 chris cya later thd
00:51 thd- chris: The OED is at least now meant to be a descriptive as opposed to prescriptive dictionary.
00:52 thd- Good evening chris
01:36 VivekVC indradg: Hello
01:36 VivekVC Sylvain: Hello :)
01:45 VivekVC Hello
01:47 osmoze hello too
02:11 VivekVC I am preparing an indianised doc of koha for my employer.
02:55 paul salut hdl
02:55 hdl salut paul.
02:55 hdl Ca va ?
02:55 paul j'avais oublié de te dire que j'étais à Paris hier
02:55 paul (pour l'Inrets)
02:55 paul oui, validation des SFD la semaine prochaine.
02:56 hdl wow.
02:56 paul contrat signé avec SQLI et facturation des SFD dès que j'ai reçu le BdC officiel ;-)
02:56 hdl Les réunions se sont bien passées ?
02:56 paul (bref, conforme au plan de route...)
02:56 paul oui, c'est un peu parti en live à un moment, mais ca concernait go albert et SQLI, donc j'ai compté les points ;-)
02:57 paul (cela dit, on a une fois encore vu les effets du commercial : AMI, c'était un peu survendu par Go Alb ert finalement ;-)
10:58 kados morning owen
10:58 owen Hi
10:58 kados I'm just looking at this barcode printing problem
10:58 owen I stopped by to see your new server room this morning
10:58 owen You've even got a desk!
10:58 kados yea :-)
10:59 kados I get an 500 error on the barcodes/printerConfig screen
10:59 owen Which server?
10:59 kados Can't locate PDF/API2/PDF/
11:00 kados NBBC
11:00 kados that looks familiar
11:00 owen It was working okay on 101 yesterday.  That's where I was working on it yesterday
11:01 kados yea ... cause it's got that ancient version of PDF::API2
11:01 kados guess I'll have to copy it over ...
11:01 owen That's the requirement, isn't it?  The ancient one?
11:01 kados yea
11:48 owen shaun, are you around?
11:55 shaun owen: yep
11:55 owen shaun, did rach give you copies of the Koha logo in some kind of original format?
11:55 shaun (in between piano concerti and eating)
11:55 shaun yep, i'll dig it out for you
11:56 owen I'd love it if you could email it to me when you get a free moment.
11:57 shaun i have eps and freehand 11 for original formats
11:58 owen Could you send both?  I have Freehand 10, but I'm not sure about backwards-compatibility.  Or would that be too much to send?
11:59 shaun not at all, i'm sending all the files now
11:59 owen Thanks!

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