IRC log for #koha, 2005-09-02

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:51 owen Hey shaun
12:51 shaun damn, that went in the wrong place
12:52 shaun hi owen
12:52 owen So have you ever used Mambo before?
12:53 shaun yep, for a couple of intranets, and i've severely hacked it on one of my publicly accessible sites (but will never, ever do that again...)
12:53 owen why not?
12:54 shaun it was painful, and i could have done it with wordpress in a tenth of the time
12:54 owen Yeah, I've heard Wordpress is a good alternative to a full-blown CMS
12:55 owen I find Mambo so convoluted it drives me up the wall.
12:55 shaun i'm using it for a couple of sites now, including my own new one, and it is very impressive, particularly with K2
12:55 owen K2?
12:56 shaun it's a theme that provides lots of additional functionality and allows WP to function a bit better as a cms, and a bit better as a blog too
12:58 owen Do you have a link for that?
12:59 shaun
13:05 owen Thanks.  Looks nice.
13:05 owen We're talking about using Mambo for a sub-site here at my library
13:05 owen I'm not sure what all the requirements are yet, though.
13:06 shaun how big is the site? i would recommend wordpress for any small multi-editor sites
13:07 owen It's definitely small... But I'm not sure if Mambo has any bells-n-whistles that Wordpress doesn't
13:10 shaun does complexity count as a bell or a whistle? :-)
13:10 owen Not in an of itself, certainly.
13:11 owen and lots of things we might want only come as plug-ins to Mambo, like a forum and an event calendar
13:58 owen So shaun, you've used wordpress as a CMS (rather than for a specifically blog-like site)?
14:04 shaun yes
14:06 shaun my site combines a blog with some semi-static content (although it isn't there yet),
14:07 shaun the other site is something that i needed to get up and running within a matter of hours and ensure that the client could edit it herself without delving into html
14:47 shaun kados around?
17:27 genjizzzz rach, you available?
17:50 shaun T-10
17:55 shaun T-5
17:58 kados shaun: getting sleepy? ;-)
17:59 shaun kados: nope, not yet, i've had enough caffeine to stay awake all night as it is
17:59 russ hi shaun and kados
18:00 shaun hi russ
18:00 kados we're still waiting for ryan ... and I think owen's planning to be here as well
18:00 russ sweet
18:01 richard hi
18:01 kados welcome richard, bob and owen
18:01 owen Hi
18:01 kados if you came for the meeting, we're still waiting for quorum
18:01 bob hi
18:02 russ i have asked bob and rich from katipo to sit in, as we are all interested in learning a bit more about mambo
18:02 kados cool
18:02 kados I"m calling ryan
18:02 russ cool - once ryan is on deck will get cracking along
18:03 shaun kados: would you be willing to take on my content page (support/contributing) or send me your support content? i doubt if i will be able to make the balance right by myself as you're doing the other support pages
18:03 russ s/wil/we'll
18:04 shaun i have cleared up the homepage modules a little bit (, but i really need the template to go any further
18:04 kados shaun: sure ... let's discuss it afterwards
18:04 kados hehe
18:04 shaun oops
18:04 kados welcome everyone
18:05 kados shaun's topic is more complete ;-)
18:05 kados so ... let's get started shall we?
18:05 kados first off, let me introduce Ryan
18:05 owen That site looks familiar
18:05 ryan hi, folks.
18:05 kados he's my partner in crime from LibLime ;-)
18:05 kados who else is here?
18:06 genji Here, miss.
18:06 genji :)
18:07 kados we don't have a formal agenda
18:07 russ well actually
18:07 kados I think the main topic will be whether and how Mambo can be used for the site
18:07 kados unless russ has a agenda up ;-)
18:07 kados in which case, he should run the meeting ;-)
18:07 russ no i dont have an agenda up (apologies for that)
18:08 kados that's cool
18:08 russ firstly just wanted to stress a couple of things
18:08 kados k
18:08 russ I don't want to debate which CMS we are going to use anymore
18:09 kados ok ;-)
18:09 russ if Mambo isnt going to cut it, then my back up plan is to use Kea
18:09 russ but I am pretty sure Mambo should be able to do what we want
18:09 ryan what are the sticky points with mambo?
18:09 russ and if we could leave any discussion about the actual content till later
18:10 russ what I would like to talk about his how do we get a site in mambo
18:10 russ to reflect the structure of the site map
18:10 kados I'm confused about that myself
18:10 russ[…]edev/sitemap.html
18:11 russ i am used to kea (our bespoke cms) which is uses a tree structure for content, so every heading in the sitemap has a page related to it and there is a strong sense of structure
18:12 russ from what i can see with mambo - content objects are all thrown in together
18:12 russ i have had a bit of a play with mambo on
18:12 kados I'm confused about sections and categories ... what the difference is
18:13 owen Sections contain categories, which contain content items, right?
18:13 ryan right.
18:13 russ right so our sections are "About Koha" "Support" "Download Koha" ?
18:14 kados 'showcase' and 'community' too right?
18:15 russ and then within the About Koha section we have categories for
18:15 russ # News
18:15 russ # Features
18:15 russ # Koha Team
18:15 russ # Koha History
18:15 russ # Support/ Contribute to Koha
18:15 russ # Awards
18:15 russ # Case Studies
18:15 russ # Testimonials
18:15 russ # FAQ
18:15 russ sorry kados - yep showcase and community are sections
18:16 owen ryan, does that sound like how you'd break it down?
18:16 ryan yes.
18:16 russ cool cos some of the pages will have the same names as the categories
18:16 russ for example Koha History - we will probablyonly have one page of content in there for starters
18:18 kados maybe ... maybe not ;-)
18:18 kados depending no how verbose I'm feeling ;-)
18:18 russ :-)
18:18 kados but point well taken
18:19 russ so setting up the right categories at the beginning is quite important?
18:19 ryan The difficulty is the sections are for blog content...
18:19 kados right ... I noticed that ... it is confusing
18:19 ryan So I think you're limited in your design
18:20 russ ah right
18:20 russ so if we have a look at shaun's design
18:20 owen I'm totally confused about 'blog content' etc.
18:20 ryan the interface to edit content is basically a blog posting.
18:22 ryan mambo's core is essentially for blogging.
18:22 ryan you'd add news items to categories in sections, right?
18:24 owen who's going to be in charge of making Mambo's template match shaun's design?
18:24 owen Seems like that's going to be a pain
18:25 ryan Probably not too hard to modify an existing free template.
18:25 shaun i would if i had a testing ground - it seems as if mambo does not allow template editing through the admin interface, so i need to set up an identical site on one of my boxen or somehow get access at katipo
18:26 owen Easy enough to do a local install
18:30 russ ryan - modifing an existing template is that something shaun should be able to do through the mambo admin interface?
18:30 russ i have given him administrator privs
18:31 ryan to some extent.
18:32 ryan it's just a bit clunky.
18:32 owen he can move stuff around, right, but he can't edit actual template files through the Mambo interface can he?
18:32 ryan you can edit the css.
18:32 ryan but not the core mambo css.
18:33 ryan sometimes it's useful to edit the mambo stuff as well.
18:33 shaun the css isn't really enough - the html needs a total rehaul
18:33 ryan also the template php is editable.
18:33 ryan (thru the interface)
18:34 russ hmm this is all starting to sound hard very quickly
18:34 owen Everything in Mambo seems hard to me...I was hoping it was just that I was a newbie.
18:35 ryan in theory, the template is all you need to change.
18:35 ryan but i've found altering the mambo css necessary to get the right look.
18:35 shaun and the modules, i think (?)
18:35 ryan otherwise, if you can find a template with roughly the right layout, it's not too difficult.
18:36 ryan right, you'll have to also edit all the module css.
18:37 ryan where is shaun's design?
18:37 kados
18:37 shaun for the inner pages
18:39 ryan nice.
18:39 richard yeah
18:39 russ so we should be looking for a template that we can alter?
18:40 ryan actually, the solar flare might work fine.
18:40 shaun ryan: it uses tables, they make me cry
18:40 owen I don't know if you can escape them in Mambo
18:41 ryan yeah.  I think tables are easier for mambo.
18:41 russ hmm ok
18:42 shaun russ: drupal? typo3?
18:42 russ simply cos the katipo crew can get shaun's design into kea with a template
18:42 russ in less than two days
18:42 shaun owen: wordpress ;-)
18:42 owen russ, your comment really makes me want to try Kea :)
18:42 shaun have done it, if you look at the code - although it's nowhere near as complex as my design
18:42 ryan by changing the content, you'll end up with two columns at bottom of page
18:43 ryan and generally the right layout.
18:46 russ oh dear
18:46 richard erk
18:46 russ yikes where did everyone go
18:47 bob looks like the rest of the world has fallen off
19:02 russ ok looks like everyone coming back
19:03 richard yeah
19:03 kados wha happened ? ;-)
19:04 russ no idea
19:04 russ i just want to check where we are at with this template thing
19:05 russ with mambo the easiest way to customise a template it to take an existing template and change the css
19:05 russ there are some things that you can't or are ver difficult to change cos mambo likes the code a certain way
19:06 russ so if we take a template
19:06 russ and customise it to look right
19:06 russ we may have to put up with code that we aren't all that happy with
19:07 owen Particularly if you want to be able to have a smooth upgrade the next time mambo comes out with a major new version
19:07 russ right
19:07 owen Nobody wants to go in and re-edit those templates again
19:07 kados hello?
19:07 russ hi kados
19:07 kados are we back up?
19:07 owen Looks like it
19:07 kados cool
19:08 owen NZ'ers were immune.
19:08 chris only some of em
19:08 chris genji fell off too
19:08 chris i suspect one of the biggish isps had a problem
19:09 russ i am starting to worry about how much time we could sink into mambo and then we could end up with something that we are still not happy with
19:09 russ does that sound fair?
19:10 kados yep
19:10 owen russ, that sounds very fair given you have a good grasp of what Kea is capable of
19:11 russ i think it is just going to be easier to do it in kea - seeing as shaun has done all the hard work of building the template already
19:11 russ we can get that into kea ready to to load content in by the weekend
19:11 kados that's cool
19:12 kados fine with me really
19:12 russ oh well next time
19:13 russ ok so moving on from here - i'll take what shaun has done and load it into kea
19:13 russ and i'll setup up users so people can get in
19:15 kados sounds good
19:16 kados anything else to discuss?
19:16 russ nope i dont think so
19:16 russ i hope the content writing is going well
19:16 kados cool ... I'm gonna take off then
19:16 kados yea ... getting there
19:16 kados I'll send you what I have tonight
19:16 kados promise ;-)
19:16 russ :-)
19:17 russ ok i gotta go as well
19:17 russ i will send an email to the list about the change
19:17 russ thanks everyone - especially ryan for scaring me
19:19 owen ryan, I don't think that was your intention :)
19:20 ryan not really, but mambo does have its limitations...
19:23 owen ryan, are there sites online that you've done with Mambo?  Liblime, right?
19:25 ryan,
19:26 ryan and my sister's wedding information site, :)
19:27 owen ryan, have you tried other forum plugins besides the simpleboard one? What do you think of it?
19:29 ryan owen, simpleboard is okay, but limited.  Other forums are more full featured, stand-alone apps with some code to link them to mambo.
19:29 ryan What mambo is good for, imo, is throwing together a decent looking, working site fast.
19:30 owen You did a good job on the liblime mambo demo and your family site of making it look non-Mambo-like, which to me is a sign of success.
19:31 ryan thx; really, the template customization isn't too bad.
19:31 ryan but keeping versions upt o date is a problem.
19:31 owen NBBC's site is Mambo too, isn't it?
19:32 ryan you mean the customer support site?
19:32 owen Their actual site
19:33 ryan yes.  i guess so.
19:34 ryan not a bad looking site.
19:39 shaun The Fight
19:39 shaun Is On
19:39 russ hi shaun - you made it back
19:40 russ fyi - bob from katipo is loading your pages into kea, we'll have the site setup and ready to load in content by the end of the day
19:41 russ using the html that you have written
19:41 shaun hi - yep - did the dns change at the ip was different to usual
19:41 russ i think one of the isps we use wigged out a bit
19:41 chris the number looks the same to me
19:42 chris yo
19:42 chris whoops wrong channel :-)
19:42 russ shaun - i'll send you a kea login one it is loaded in and we can take it from there
19:44 shaun so no chance of using another cms then? btw: i still have a couple of changes to make to the homepage but they are minimal
19:44 si got fixed yesterday, so that it does actually point at an irc server
19:45 russ shaun - i'll give you a login to kea once the homepage is loaded in
19:46 russ so you can make the changes
20:05 shaun russ: have you finished with the files at my end?
02:14 osmoze hello
02:32 hdl hello
04:08 hdl paul_away?
04:28 Sylvain arg, cvs broken ? :(
05:01 hdl sylvain ?
05:01 hdl Tu dis cvs broken ? Quelle version ?
05:02 hdl HEAD was under construction for ZEBRA. Paul worte a note about this.
05:07 Sylvain non, hdl juste que j'arrivais pas à updater depuis sourceforge
05:07 Sylvain c'est revenu
06:09 shaun wow
06:09 shaun anybody else checked out kea?
06:09 si shaun: I've used it
06:10 shaun i know you have ;-), i was talking about the new koha site in kea, it looks very impressive with so little work
06:11 si there's been a fair amount of work gone into kea :-)
06:11 shaun i can tell, it looks awesome
06:14 shaun who's been working on this particular site at the katipo end?
06:14 si no idea
06:14 si russ and his band of slaves, presumably
06:16 si if it works, yo do
06:18 Sylvain shaun what's the url of the kohasite with kea ?
06:19 shaun i'm not sure whether it's allowed for sharing yet - i could only access it with a un+pw given to me by russ
06:19 Sylvain ok, it must be the url in the mail so, I tried to access and was asked a login/pwd :)
06:20 shaun yeah - i won't do the make public thing, i'll leave that to a katipo wizard
06:20 Sylvain ok, no problem

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