IRC log for #koha, 2014-09-11

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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01:00 Dan_ hello people. just a question: what is the reason of tmp_holdsqueue? why not just reading directly from reserves?
01:03 eythian I think it can be an expensive process to calculate the queue, so it's done once a day and loaded into there.
01:03 eythian (that's how I remember it, anyway.)
01:06 Dan_ @eythian thank you
01:06 huginn Dan_: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready
01:07 Dan_ huginn: excuse me, what is RDA?
01:07 huginn Dan_: My excuse for today is "capitalism"
01:07 wahanui Dan_: Change in Earth's rotational speed
01:08 Dan_ I see, I suppose of some trolling
01:34 dac O_o
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02:27 wizzyrea Dan_ the hold queue does some trickery matching up borrowers to items
02:28 wizzyrea the default is that it runs every hour
02:28 eythian I think he got scared away by the robot army
02:28 wizzyrea kek
02:30 tcohen hi
02:30 rangi hi tcohen
02:31 wizzyrea hi tcohen
02:38 * tcohen wishes he had 3 more hours a day
02:39 dcook tcohen: I always wish I had 8 hours more in a day
02:40 tcohen :-D
02:41 dcook I also wish I had a robot army :D
02:42 eythian wahanui: huginn: assemble!
02:42 wahanui I got stuck trying to make voltron.
02:42 dcook lol
02:45 wizzyrea it's the downfall of many projects: getting stuck trying to make voltron.
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05:00 indradg morning #koha
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05:06 indradg rangi: pdelnet@gmail mailed that you direct?
05:08 mtj hiya indradg
05:08 indradg morning mtj
05:08 mtj indradg:  i think email was to
05:09 mtj .. and not direct to chris )
05:10 indradg quite possible
05:10 indradg libsys is the bug bear of Indian libraries
05:11 mtj ah ok, i have not heard much about libsys myself (from NZ)
05:12 indradg everyone who claims to be an expert claims to have migrated data over to Koha. but no cogent HOWTO has ever emerged in all these years.
05:12 indradg :P
05:16 mtj yeah, i understand indradg
05:17 mtj hey indradg, great work on the jquery.ime stuff too
05:17 indradg thank you mtj
05:18 mtj i dont think i had ever seen it, before your patches
05:18 indradg just trying to cut my teeth on the coding guidelines... never coded in perl before... learning up
05:20 mtj ok ok... seems like you are doing just fine :)
05:21 indradg there are a few india specific requirements that won't get into Koha, unless people actually code it up.
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05:22 indradg for example we have an acquisition system that is called "approval basis" that Koha does not yet support.
05:23 indradg publishers / distributors will come in about 6 months before a new school year and dump out a load of their new inventory.
05:23 mtj aah, 'approval basis' is an indian govt requirement?
05:23 indradg not a govt requirement but very widely practised
05:23 mtj ok
05:24 indradg these "test copies" are then actually circulated among the faculty
05:24 indradg and should it receive their approval order is placed
05:26 indradg three things can happen: a) the "approved test copies" become "gift" and accessioned likewise, the rest returned or b) all are accessioned as "gift copies" c) in very rare case all are returned back
05:27 mtj ah ok, i got it indradg
05:28 indradg these are items in limbo for a time.... not properly property of the library, but yet has to be accounted for and subjected to restricted circulation
05:28 indradg somewhat like bug 10860
05:28 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10860 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , In-House Use
05:32 mtj ooh, that looks useful  ^^
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05:47 indradg hi cait :)
05:47 * cait waves
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06:39 reiveune hello
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06:54 alex_a bonjour
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07:29 Joubu hello
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07:56 matts hello
07:56 wahanui bonjour, matts
07:56 cait bonjour matts :)
07:57 matts guten Morgen cait !
08:04 Joubu @later tell pianohacker Hi! Are you working on an interface to configure cronjobs via the staff interface? (see bug 8337 last comments)
08:04 huginn Joubu: The operation succeeded.
08:27 indradg Joubu: how about "in-library" or "intra-library" use? keeps it 'in the library' but doesn't necessary restrict it to a specific area within the library?
08:28 Joubu indradg: I am with all propositions :) Could you please propose on the ML or bug report? I don't think it should me to decide.
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08:29 ashimema Morning all
08:29 cait Joubu: see t positive - the feature is not in question, just the name :)
08:30 cait Joubu: actually we have a library that would be happy about it I think - I need to learn more about how it works with your patch
08:30 cait morning ashimema :)
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08:32 indradg cait, Joubu : how to do you guys handle it when a part of the inventory is off-access - say out for physical restoration or binding or pest control purposes?
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08:32 indradg change the location code?
08:32 wahanui indradg: that doesn't look right
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08:35 cait indradg: hm location or a special notforloan status in our libraries i think
08:35 Joubu indradg: yes, locaton could be a solution
08:36 indradg ok
09:05 cait @wunder Konstanz
09:05 huginn cait: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 15.0°C (11:00 AM CEST on September 11, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 62%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 29.97 in 1015 hPa (Rising).
09:09 Joubu @later tell tcohen could you have a look at my comment on bug 12859 please?
09:09 huginn Joubu: The operation succeeded.
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09:47 cait @later tell tcohen you asked me about relator terms a whie ago, i figured out how it works now i think
09:47 huginn cait: The operation succeeded.
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11:29 indradg @wunder Kolkata
11:29 huginn indradg: The current temperature in Kolkata, India is 31.0°C (4:50 PM IST on September 11, 2014). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: 26.0°C. Pressure: 29.62 in 1003 hPa (Steady).
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12:07 oleonard Hi #koha
12:08 cait hi oleonard :)
12:08 indradg hi oleonard
12:08 jcamins @later tell dcook No, pseudonyms are never put in the 7xx field in bib records.
12:08 huginn jcamins: The operation succeeded.
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13:01 oleonard I know someone has mentioned before the upgrade problem where " Table 'koha.roadtype' doesn't exist"
13:01 oleonard Is there a bug for that?
13:03 Joubu oleonard: actually the updatedb entry removes the table. So I am not sure there is a problem if it didn't exist before.
13:04 oleonard Joubu: Here's how I ran into it: I dropped my database and checked out an earlier version to test something. Then I checked out master and updated that database
13:05 oleonard Joubu: The problem is that the db error prevented me from completing the upgrade process. I got stuck in a loop.
13:06 Joubu oleonard: arg, yes
13:06 Joubu oleonard: do you know why the table didn't exist? From where come your "earlier version"?
13:07 cait Joubu: the problem is that it got backported from 3.16 to 3.14 - so it's there twice
13:07 oleonard I checked out tags/v3.14.09
13:08 Joubu cait: ok I see
13:08 Joubu whaou, something to think for the QA step!
13:10 cait hm i think maybe something to keep in mind as rmaint
13:10 cait everything with a database update is potentially causing problems
13:10 cait i think ideally this shoudl not have been in 3.14 - it's mostly clean up and not fixing a bug
13:10 Joubu cait: the change should be done on master, not 3.14
13:11 Joubu I am not 3.14 RM :)
13:11 cait I know :)
13:11 Joubu Frido is coming
13:11 cait but you are right, now we need to fix it from top to bottom
13:11 cait master and 3.16
13:12 cait checking for existance of the table int he second database update
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13:14 fridolin hie all
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13:15 fridolin sorry I come not every day, we have problems with this chan when using our VPN
13:15 fridolin cait: you look for me ?
13:15 Joubu fridolin: have a look at the backlog
13:15 fridolin heuu
13:16 fridolin where do I find it ? cait
13:16 Joubu[…]4-09-11#i_1567078
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13:21 fridolin ouch
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13:27 fridolin i do not see the Bug number. which is it ? Joubu cait
13:27 Joubu 7372
13:29 fridolin Joubu: what do you mean by "it got backported from 3.16 to 3.14 - so it's there twice" ?
13:30 fridolin the drop of the table is once in updatedatabase
13:30 Joubu raiseerror is set, so the select raise an error and stop the updadb script
13:31 cait sorry, had to talk to a coworker
13:32 cait reading back now
13:32 cait fridolin: did you find it?
13:32 cait when you update a 3.14.7 to a 3.16.x it will run the same table drop twice
13:32 fridolin Joubu: you mean when you update from 3.14.x to 3.16 or master ?
13:33 cait yes
13:33 fridolin ah ok
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13:33 fridolin but i think this is not the only database update that can not be executed twice
13:34 cait hm it would not be good if it wasn't
13:34 fridolin whe have the same issue when updating from 3.2 to recent branch
13:34 cait I think the main thing here is that we need to be extremely careful when backporting database updates
13:34 cait ideally not many shoudl go into the bugfix releases, if at all
13:34 cait in my opinion
13:34 fridolin I agree
13:35 fridolin but i thought this update was pretty clear
13:36 cait i thinkw e need a patch for master and have that in the next 3.16.x release
13:36 fridolin you think that when creating the database update, one should test if it has been launched already ?
13:36 cait updating the second database update to check for the existance of the table first
13:36 Joubu I sent a patch on the bug report
13:36 cait ah cool
13:36 Joubu for master, but easily backportable on 3.16.x
13:37 cait fridolin: i think even a syspref backported will raise a duplicate warn when there is no 'ignore' in the statement
13:37 cait that's not a bad one, but when we shuffle data around it should be tested if the update is ok i guess
13:38 Joubu fridolin: no, it's caused by the RaiseError flag
13:38 fridolin cait: i realy thought updating from a stable branch to another was not supported
13:38 oleonard Why wouldn't that be supported?
13:40 fridolin because database update will run has if the database was on master version
13:40 fridolin Joubu: should we not use RaiseError flag in updatedatabase ?
13:41 cait hm
13:41 oleonard fridolin: Are you saying you don't expect libraries to upgrade from 3.14.x to 3.16.x?
13:41 cait i think the problem is when you update from the last bugfix release to master
13:41 cait actually
13:41 Joubu (we should not use
13:41 cait so you ran it as part of your bugfix updates the first time
13:41 cait then later decide to go a version up
13:41 cait then it will run again
13:41 cait does that make sense?
13:41 cait it's depending on timing and where you come from
13:42 cait if you go from before the first roadtime to a current version, ther eis no problem
13:42 cait but when you go from a version where the roadtype has been deleted already to the current one, then yes
13:45 fridolin oleonard: I'd like to, but in this case all database update should check they are not already launched no ?
13:45 fridolin i there something in the gide lines ?
13:45 fridolin guide
13:46 oleonard I thought it was a guideline that database changes should not be backported.
13:46 cait fridolin: hm what are you looking for?
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13:46 cait actually kind of that yes
13:47 cait[…]lease_maintenance
13:47 cait You should be particularly cautious about backporting a change that  includes a database update.  This is because a library that uses your  stable branch will eventually upgrade to a newer major release, and as a  consequence may run the same DB revision.
13:48 fridolin cait: our totally right
13:49 fridolin but the work can not be done when backporting no ? it me be prepared in the patch for master
13:49 cait yeah i think if you really wanted to bacport a database chance, you'd have to submit a patch to master too
13:49 fridolin cait: ok it's more clear for me
13:50 cait i am not sure, but i feel it should happen quite seldomly
13:50 cait more bugs in our program logic than in the database
13:50 fridolin but many patches will remain in master then
13:51 fridolin some important/performance patches
13:51 cait hm do you have an example?
13:51 fridolin some updates with database indexes
13:52 cait hm yes
13:52 cait to be honest i think if the performance problem is not a regression, soemthing we made slower ... I'd think it's an enh
13:52 cait not something that is strictly needed in a bugfix release
13:53 fridolin oki
13:53 fridolin cait: can I do something as 3.14 RM right now ?
13:55 cait hm right now i think not
13:55 cait you could give the patch a first sign off maybe?
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14:13 fridolin oki
14:16 cait :)
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14:23 cait Joubu++ fridolin++
14:27 gaetan_B do we have a list of characters that are part of the zebra syntax and are not really allowed in a seach ? (like parenthesis)
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14:45 agbolo hello
14:47 agbolo please i am installing for the first time koha on squeeeze
14:48 agbolo i am having problems with perl
14:50 oleonard How are you installing agbolo? Packages?
14:52 agbolo yes
14:52 agbolo i am using indexdata
14:52 agbolo i have 11 more packeges left
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14:55 agbolo Crypt::Eksblowfish::Bcrypt                    0 *               0.008                   Yes Email::Valid                                  0 *               0.190                   Yes GD::Barcode::UPCE                             0 *               1.1                     Yes Library::CallNumber::LC                       0 *               0.22                    Yes Locale::Maketext::Lexicon                     0 *               0.91                    Yes Op
14:56 oleonard agbolo:
14:56 agbolo these are my issues when i lunch to perl -m -u
15:00 reiveune bye
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15:03 agbolo hello
15:03 agbolo any help
15:03 wahanui i think any help is appreciated ;)
15:04 kivilahtio Hi there! I just commented[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6685 would anyone care to comment on that?
15:04 huginn Bug 6685: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, NEW , circ rules by groups of items
15:05 oleonard agbolo: Did you try manually installing them? For instance: sudo apt-get install libcrypt-eksblowfish-perl
15:08 agbolo noo
15:08 agbolo i want the system to download it automatically
15:08 agbolo how do i go by it with having to get series of dependencies using synaptic is it possible?
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15:19 oleonard kivilahtio: Is your goal to avoid creating additional item types?
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15:27 mveron Hi #koha
15:28 mveron @wunder Allschwil
15:28 huginn mveron: The current temperature in Wetter Allschwil, Allschwil, Switzerland is 20.2°C (5:28 PM CEST on September 11, 2014). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 54%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Steady).
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15:28 kivilahtio oleonard: yes
15:29 oleonard kivilahtio: Is there a disadvantage to adding additional item types which you are trying to avoid?
15:29 kivilahtio oleonard: i think we ar efacing sttistical issues if we create many itemtypes
15:29 tgoat hi everyone :)
15:29 mveron hi tgoat :-)
15:29 tgoat good morning mveron :)
15:30 kivilahtio oleonard: but we are yet to look too deeply into statistics, we have been looking into it and my suggestion of using itemtypes was crushed
15:30 tgoat thanks for the redirection mveron :)
15:30 kivilahtio oleonard: maybe I could bring it out again considering thet the hack I made deosnt work anymore on the staff side due to the great and needed AJAXified checkin/out
15:30 mveron redirection?
15:31 kivilahtio but changing hte itemtype would be visaully the best and easiest way to go
15:31 kivilahtio oleonard: I think I will talk about that tomorrow and see if we could use extra itemtypes, but we would get a LOT of them
15:31 kivilahtio oleonard: double what we have now
15:32 kivilahtio oleonard: actually triple :)
15:32 cait kivilahtio: hm maybe you need to rethink your approach
15:32 kivilahtio DVD, shortloan, normal, quickloan
15:32 cait kivilahtio: we use short loan, long term etc. as itemtypes
15:33 cait and dvd would be in the record - material type
15:33 cait or you could move those into the collection fied
15:33 kivilahtio so in addition to itemtype we would set the collection code and use that for circulation checks
15:33 cait i think we have even alibrary where itemtypes are 7-days 14-days etc.
15:33 oleonard kivilahtio: For what it's worth, at my library we use itemtype only for setting circ policy and use collection codes for tracking statistics on specific collections.
15:34 cait ^^
15:34 kivilahtio oleonard: you need to set a lot of collection codes
15:34 kivilahtio oleonard: that is one extra select dropdown when items are added
15:35 cait sorry have to run
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15:35 kivilahtio maybe we could use ccode for circulation
15:35 kivilahtio only ccode
15:36 oleonard kivilahtio: Around 50 at last count, which isn't problematic for us.
15:43 kivilahtio do I remember wrong but couldn't you set circulatin rules by ccode?
15:44 oleonard No
15:44 kivilahtio ok
15:44 gaetan_B bye
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15:57 Joubu bye #koha
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16:05 fridolin1 bye all
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16:15 oleonard I wonder if rangi's old IRC stats page is still running somewhere
16:20 bag hmm I don't think so oleonard
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16:53 agbolo hello team
16:53 agbolo i am stack on some package installation
16:53 agbolo i dont know if i have the right files
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16:54 agbolo TEmplate::Plugin::HtmlToText , Local::Maketest , Locale::Maketext::Lexicon and MARC::Record
16:54 agbolo i cannot solve this pending perl modules TEmplate::Plugin::HtmlToText , Local::Maketest , Locale::Maketext::Lexicon and MARC::Record
16:55 agbolo please can someone help
16:56 jcamins packages?
16:56 wahanui somebody said packages was at
16:56 jcamins agbolo: ^^ those are good instructions. Good luck!
17:01 wnickc jcamins: Just a question about those instructions, they say default ports are 80 for OPAC and 8080 for staff, maybe I missed soemthing, but when I set up my VM recently both seemed to be default to 80, did i miss something?
17:01 jcamins wnickc: no, the defaults are 80 with packages.
17:03 wnickc Ah, I am going to update that line
17:05 wnickc jcamins: and -intra is default suffix, right?
17:05 jcamins I believe so, yeah.
17:06 wnickc thanks
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17:53 oleonard
17:57 oleonard ...since Bug 12904 has got me thinking about caching, expiration, etc.
17:57 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12904 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, In Discussion , Force browser to load new javascript files after upgrade
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19:21 ashimema oleonard, i'm glad you raised that..
19:22 ashimema I've been thinking similar thoughts on having some sort of versioning on with your stylesheets, and had simlarly had issues with using a query appended..
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19:25 marjorie hi,  is anyone having trouble with opachiddenitems since 3.12
19:25 ashimema this is one of the things mod_pagespeed does, or did ?
19:25 ashimema[…]/pagespeed/module
19:27 ashimema if you have qp turned on.. it doesn't work ;)
19:31 ashimema[…]lter-cache-extend
19:47 rangi i can get it back if you want (the stats page that is)
19:47 rangi morning
19:47 rangi marjorie: not that ive heard reported
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19:50 marjorie rangi: thanks. i put location:[CODE] in sys pref but it does not work and i don't know why.
20:07 * indradg goes to read irc logs
20:11 rangi hmm i think people are talking past each other with the DBIx thing
20:12 rangi no one is disputing that its not a DB abstraction layer, but some are saying that we should follow the same rules no dbi stuff in .pl .. no dbix stuff in .pl too
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20:20 cait hm if marjorie comes back
20:20 cait a blank line at the end might help
20:20 tgoat bywater .. just got a call from siskiyou county. There down!
20:20 cait tgoat: wrong window? :)
20:20 tgoat thanks cait!
20:20 cait np, hope it can be fixed fast :)
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21:48 eythian hi
21:50 sekjal hi, eythian
21:53 wizzyrea !
21:53 wizzyrea sekjal!
21:53 sekjal hi, wizzyrea!
21:53 wizzyrea how are you!
21:53 sekjal I'm well
21:54 sekjal getting very very close to becoming a dad
21:54 wizzyrea Squee!
21:54 sekjal its really exciting
21:54 sekjal 6 work days left before going on leave
21:55 wizzyrea oh my gosh.
21:56 sekjal :)
21:57 sekjal how're you?
21:57 wizzyrea you've got the bags packed right :P
21:57 wizzyrea doin pretty well :)
21:57 sekjal yup, hospital duffle is ready to go
21:57 wizzyrea[…]1sc9rdlo1_400.gif
21:57 wizzyrea that's how excited we are to see you :)
21:58 sekjal I was just in another IRC channel trying to get help for an application I'm writing, and was lamenting how unresponsive everywhere-thats-not-#koha seems to be
22:00 wizzyrea boo for them, yay for us :)
22:00 sekjal truly
22:01 wizzyrea[…]nts_attention.gif < kinda like that
22:01 sekjal any fun developments in the pipeline lately?  or new community pushes/initiatives?
22:03 wizzyrea hmm
22:05 wizzyrea well there's always stuff coming
22:05 wizzyrea we just did an ajax circ
22:05 wizzyrea that was pretty neat
22:05 wizzyrea and we now have borrower lists, and borrower attributes (basically user definable borrower fields)
22:05 wizzyrea acquisitions is finally starting to make a bit of sense
22:06 wizzyrea things gradually getting better, all the time :)
22:06 sekjal awesome!
22:06 wahanui That'll be $1 for the awesome jar, sekjal
22:06 wizzyrea oh, don't know if you met our resident snark bot, wahanui.
22:06 wahanui wizzyrea: huh?
22:06 * wizzyrea pats wahanui
22:07 sekjal wahanui: take a check?
22:07 wahanui i haven't a clue, sekjal
22:07 sekjal obviously
22:07 wizzyrea teehee
22:08 * sekjal was sad to miss KohaCon 2014… so close yet so far
22:15 tgoatley joined #koha
22:47 bag heya sekjal
22:47 sekjal hey, bag!
22:48 bag I was just thinking about you the other day
22:48 bag I see from the scrollback - pretty soon man
22:49 * bag was just running out the door
22:49 sekjal less than 2 weeks to the due date
22:49 bag catch you later sekjal :)
22:50 bag @sekjal++
22:50 huginn bag: I've exhausted my database of quotes
22:50 sekjal later, bag!
22:50 bag be well man
22:50 bag whoops
22:50 sekjal thanks, you too
22:50 bag sekjal++
22:52 talljoy hiya sekjal
22:52 sekjal hi, talljoy!
22:52 talljoy baby countdown commences i see!
22:52 talljoy very exciting!!!
22:53 talljoy i'm blowing out the door to pick up the teenager.  (sekjal....they get there very quickly...just FYI)
22:53 sekjal :)
22:55 rocio left #koha
23:20 dcook "lamenting how unresponsive everywhere-thats-not-#koha seems to be"
23:20 dcook So much that
23:20 dcook Although the Postgresql channel is rather busy
23:20 wizzyrea dcook did you ever have occasion to work much with sekjal?
23:20 dcook (Yet still responsive. Got good help there)
23:20 dcook wizzyrea: Nope. Not even a little bit. Just seen his comments on Bugzilla and Git
23:21 papa joined #koha
23:21 wizzyrea bummer, you'd have liked each other I think.
23:22 dcook Oh? That's neat :)
23:22 dcook I like liking people!
23:22 * dcook really needs to remember to write up that talk at some point..
23:50 NateC joined #koha

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