IRC log for #koha, 2014-08-01

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:00 eythian that's where /usr/share/perl/5.10.1/Test/ comes from
00:00 eythian what does your jenkins box have that provides Test/
00:01 pastebot "tcohen" at pasted "eythian: running on Debian 6" (34 lines) at
00:02 eythian the version of whatever you're using to give you Test/ is more important.
00:02 tcohen jenkins@koha-jenkins-d6:/usr/share/perl/5.10.1$ grep -i VERSION Test/ | head -1
00:02 tcohen our $VERSION = '0.92';
00:02 pastebot "eythian" at pasted "tcohen: running on Debian 6 :)" (40 lines) at
00:03 eythian do you have something else providing, you may have a higher version stashed somewhere.
00:04 tcohen how can I know that?
00:04 eythian dpkg -s
00:04 eythian or locate
00:04 eythian the latter is probably better in case it's somehow out of package mangement.
00:05 tcohen hm
00:05 tcohen /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1/Test/
00:05 tcohen /usr/share/perl/5.10.1/Test/
00:05 rangi there ya go
00:05 eythian what does perl -MTest::More -e 'print $Test::More::VERSION . "\n"'
00:05 eythian say?
00:05 tcohen you are right
00:05 eythian also, yeah
00:05 tcohen our $VERSION = '1.001003';
00:05 eythian yeah
00:05 eythian you're cheating there :)
00:06 tcohen maybe some of the missing deps pulled that
00:06 eythian it's in /usr/local
00:06 eythian it's probably cpan on the command line
00:06 tcohen (apache::bench and so on)
00:06 eythian I'll finish writing up my bug then
00:06 tcohen I installed Devel::Cover::Report::Clover using cpan
00:06 tcohen it might have pulled that version
00:07 tcohen eythian: does db_dependent/Items.t fail too?
00:08 eythian it fails badly, yes
00:09 tcohen we have subtests in 5 tests files
00:09 rangi but only 1 not in db_dependent
00:09 eythian bug 12689
00:09 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12689 blocker, P3, ---, chris, NEW , Search.t fails to run on Squeeze
00:10 rangi 0.92 is incredibly old, however while squeeze is supported we probably should not have subtests in the main t dir
00:13 eythian tcohen: note that if you have a pbuilder setup, it's mostly just a matter of doing a --login with a --bindmount to your koha dir, installing koha-perldeps then you can run things in a pristine environment.
00:13 tcohen eythian, thanks for the advise
00:13 tcohen i just reused what we used to use in jenkins
00:14 * tcohen didn't find a way to add another use of the word use
00:14 eythian heh
00:14 rangi i think its ok to have them in db_dependent, package builds dont run them, and most people don't choose to run the db ones with make test
00:14 rangi tcohen: someone must have installed a newer test::more on the squeeze box tho
00:14 rangi with cpan
00:15 tcohen you mean the jenkins node?
00:15 rangi the /usr/local/ is a give away that it was cpan :)
00:15 rangi yep
00:15 tcohen the only posibility is that it was me
00:15 tcohen i think it was pulled as a dependency when building a non-packaged lib needed for the testing env
00:15 rangi could well be
00:16 tcohen i might ask the sysops guys to dump a new OS image and "do it fine"
00:17 eythian or see if you can make jenkins use pbuilder
00:18 pastebot "tcohen" at pasted "evidence" (6 lines) at
00:18 eythian looks guilty to me!
00:19 eythian rangi, wizzyrea: I might go to the food court. Keen?
00:20 eythian this was probably the wrong channel for that.
00:20 rangi heh
00:20 tcohen eythian: will you do smth about that bug? i can do it, tomorrow
00:20 rangi im tossing up between that and the $10 fish and chips
00:21 eythian tcohen: can you? I don't really know anything about subtests etc.
00:21 eythian (and want to spend today submitting a bunch of Koha and Katmandu dependencies into Debian.)
00:21 tcohen eythian++
00:21 rangi and Catmandu too
00:21 rangi :)
00:22 wizzyrea I like food!
00:22 wizzyrea and courts of food
00:22 eythian err yes
00:22 tcohen eythian: dbix...
00:22 tcohen :-P
00:22 eythian that Catmandu. No jackets or sleeping bags needed.
00:22 wizzyrea hey they make pretty awesome jackets.
00:22 rangi tcohen: thats already in wheezy
00:23 wizzyrea debian could probably use some.
00:23 eythian tcohen: you were supposed to find me the minimum version with the bug fixed.
00:23 eythian tcohen: or the patch so I can backport it.
00:23 eythian Updating DBIx itself is troublesome.
00:24 tcohen ok ok
00:24 tcohen forgot about that
00:24 tcohen hey, is there anything i can blame you?
00:24 eythian basically trying with the new version turned into a whole pile of dependencies that would have meant backporting half of CPAN :)
00:25 eythian tcohen: not if I can help it! :)
00:25 rangi hehe
00:25 rangi 0.08270 is in testing
00:26 rangi[…]x-class-perl.html
00:26 eythian I think I tried with the wheezy version, and it looked difficult enough
00:28 rangi (which is the latest version on cpan)
00:28 rangi so yeah, nothing more can be done in terms of getting it into debian
00:28 eythian rangi: it's not that, it's that there's a bug in the version in squeeze
00:28 rangi yep
00:29 eythian so the best^Weasiest solution is to backport the specific fix
00:29 tcohen will read the logs, wife waiting to have dinner
00:29 tcohen bye!
00:29 eythian later
00:29 wizzyrea don't keep the wifey waiting!
00:35 * dcook wonders if XML::LibXML can handle XPointer within an XInclude...
00:35 dcook laters tcohen
00:35 dcook Suppose it depends on the parser you're using
00:37 dcook Grant McLean... isn't he a Catalyst fellow?
00:37 ibeardslee It could be the same guy
00:37 dcook[…]L-SAX-0.99/
00:37 ibeardslee yeah that'll be him
00:37 dcook cool :)
00:38 ibeardslee Do you need me to throw something at him?
00:38 dcook Nah, it's all good
00:38 dcook Just recognized the naem
00:38 dcook name*
00:38 * ibeardslee is disappointed, hasn't had to throw anything at anyone for a while.  Would be good to have been able to blame someone else.
00:39 dcook hehe
00:39 ibeardslee yeah that'll be him#63
00:39 ibeardslee 25 days ago
00:39 ibeardslee by Jef Vratny
00:39 ibeardslee 2014-07-07 09:24
00:40 ibeardslee oh bloody hell stupid arm leaning on the mouse
00:40 dcook I was wondering a bit :p
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01:16 dcook Occasionally, I think MARC frameworks are the bane of my existence
01:16 dcook Search could be improved, but that's a matter of time and effort.
01:16 dcook MARC frameworks...they're just...argh.
01:17 dcook Well, not the frameworks per se. Rather, the concept behind them.
01:29 wizzyrea ?
01:29 wizzyrea sorry you'll have to explain that sentiment
01:30 dcook Mostly... how to keep them up-to-date
01:30 dcook But not even that
01:30 wahanui not even that is, like, cold :)
01:30 dcook Rather... how to create an editor template of a chosen set of fields
01:30 dcook But also allow for other fields to be saved when copy cataloguing
01:30 dcook (So if you don't have 336 in your framework, you'll still get 336 to save)
01:31 eythian yeah, that's something that should be fixed.
01:31 dcook Especially when some workflows might count on certain fields NOT being in the framework
01:31 pianohacker dcook: rancor is solving that last problem (saving unknown fields)
01:31 dcook O rly?
01:31 dcook Tell me more :)
01:31 dcook I figure it's a bug that some people might use as a feature?
01:31 wizzyrea keeping them up to date
01:31 wahanui keeping them up to date is difficult...
01:31 dcook Hence
01:31 wizzyrea is a problem
01:32 wizzyrea and the not saving thing, that's a problem too.
01:32 dcook wizzyrea: But is it?
01:32 dcook Ah, yeah, the saving thing
01:32 dcook But the whole being up-to-date...
01:32 dcook What is up-to-date?
01:32 pianohacker no, it's intentional. It's one of the many, many things catalogers hate about the current editor. you can save just about any field in a record; rancor just uses the framework to verify mandatory/non-repeated fields and show descriptions of tags and subfields
01:32 dcook We let people re-write the labels, so it's impossible to keep those up-to-date per se
01:32 dcook We could keep "repeatable" up-to-date...
01:32 wizzyrea I forget whether hiding instead of deleting fields makes a difference in the saving bug.
01:33 dcook wizzyrea: huge difference
01:33 wizzyrea I don't ever delete fields.
01:33 wizzyrea ever.
01:33 dcook pianohacker: come again?
01:33 dcook Ah wait, I get you
01:33 dcook I thought you were talking about the current editor
01:34 dcook The framework tables also need a bit of a tidy up
01:35 dcook wizzyrea: Yeah, I would never delete fields. The Fast Add framework only has a subset of fields but in theory that should be OK as you'd hopefully never be copy cataloguing with that framework
01:35 dcook pianohacker: Do you use the value_builder and authtype_code fields as well?
01:35 pianohacker ah yeah those too
01:35 pianohacker wait not value_builder
01:36 pianohacker rancor can use the XML metadata made for a few of the field widgets, but not the widgets themselves
01:36 dcook do you build the leader, the 005, and the 008?
01:36 pianohacker It has a separate widget system
01:36 dcook Mmm
01:37 pianohacker I did the leader by hand before I added the XML compatibility
01:37 rangi basically the whole problem is MARC
01:37 dcook rangi: Yes and no
01:37 dcook I'm running into this problem with DSpace using DC as well
01:38 dcook Well, not the exact same problem
01:38 pianohacker if MARC were a little less terrible, it would help, but hey
01:38 rangi if marc didnt exist
01:38 rangi it would help even more
01:38 dcook Managing multiple different templates gets cumbersome
01:38 dcook But it would be easier without MARC :p
01:38 pianohacker I put that on my "things that would be so wonderful I don't think they could be" scale just below "peace in the middle east"
01:39 rangi that we have to spend time even knowing that a leader exists, let alone what it does
01:39 dcook Hmm
01:39 * dcook tries to remember how we currently build the value
01:39 pianohacker for?
01:39 pianohacker the leader?
01:39 wahanui i think the leader is[…]hic/bdleader.html or
01:40 dcook But it's really not that different from a field needing some sort of calculated value
01:40 rangi where 97% of the worlds library workers dont understand MARC in the least
01:40 dcook ^
01:40 dcook Well, actually...
01:40 rangi and the 3% that do, wont let it go
01:40 rangi most libraries in the world are special libraries
01:40 dcook Actually, yeah, I agree
01:40 dcook 97% of the world's library workers don't understand MARC
01:40 dcook And 99% don't understand AACR2
01:40 rangi yep
01:41 pianohacker god, AACR2
01:41 rangi and 99.8 dont understand RDA
01:41 pianohacker "Yes, I know there's weird punctuation in the title. No, I can't just strip it out."
01:41 rangi :)
01:41 dcook RDA trainers don't even understand RDA
01:41 rangi thats cos they are still writing the specs :)
01:41 rangi but yeah rancor will be a great improvement
01:42 pianohacker it's like html5 without the pragmatism
01:42 dcook I thought that they had finished?
01:42 * dcook might've just been optimistic
01:42 rangi they keep adding new ones, or least making them live or some madness
01:42 dcook The only downside I can see with rancor at the moment is that it'll be hardcoded for MARC?
01:42 pianohacker dcook: galen and I talked about that at kohacon '13
01:42 dcook The truly nasty part of RDA is that it's basically AACR3...but requires changes to MARC too :S
01:43 dcook pianohacker: Oh?
01:43 rangi the work with oslo will end up with some rdf editor
01:43 rangi hopefully the 2 can be combined in some way
01:43 pianohacker you can abstract away the MARC editing parts of Rancor, but there's so little left afterwards that it's not very useful on its own
01:43 pianohacker that would be cool though rangi
01:43 rangi *nod*
01:43 rangi basically the work flows are MARC specific
01:44 rangi so an editor you build kinda has to be too
01:44 pianohacker yup. MARC is so idiosyncratic that you have to spend a lot of time catering to it
01:44 dcook I suppose the idea of having a CLI type editor on the screen though would be useful
01:44 dcook Oh MARC...
01:44 dcook But yeah, I figure if we can have consensus about the saving thing...
01:45 dcook Then updates to MARC frameworks become trivial
01:45 rangi *nod*
01:45 dcook The only problem I see at the moment is labels and repeatability
01:45 dcook For unknown fields/subfields
01:45 dcook But that's barely a problem
01:46 pianohacker dcook: I'd say at this point you might want to write up an RFC
01:46 dcook :P
01:46 pianohacker most of the people who would have really strong opinions about it would be on the list
01:46 pianohacker for better or worse :)
01:46 dcook Can't I just rule with an iron fist?
01:46 dcook Actually, if I really believed that, I'd just be sending patches and not posting comments.
01:46 rangi koha still needs a NO I NEVER WANT TO SEE MARC mode too
01:46 dcook True that
01:46 wizzyrea ^^
01:46 rangi that would make so many of our special libraries happy
01:47 dcook Same
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01:47 pianohacker are there still those odd system preferences that hide most of the codes and tags and whatnot?
01:47 pianohacker (in the editor at least)
01:47 rangi in the editor yeah
01:47 dcook I think so?
01:48 * dcook recalls showing a special librarian the cataloguing editor once
01:48 dcook I can't remember their expression exactly...but it was a mix of shock and horror
01:49 dcook "What are these numbers and words?"
01:49 pianohacker So different from showing it to a conventional cataloger how?
01:49 pianohacker ;)
01:49 dcook Well, a cataloguer in an academic library or a public library would maybe grimace, but still be at home :p
01:49 pianohacker grimace really hard
01:49 dcook Yeah, I think I have a bit of stockholm syndrome
01:50 * dcook wishes he could remember his first impression of the editor
01:50 pianohacker I believe I've heard the current editor called a "fisher-price editor" more than once
01:50 dcook Mind you, my first exposure to Koha was 3.2
01:50 pianohacker probably from nengard
01:50 dcook It's grown so much since then
01:50 dcook "fisher-price editor"... interesting
01:50 dcook Actually, it's pretty similar to a lot of editors I've seen for web-based library systems
01:51 dcook By a lot, I mean like...maybe one other one
01:51 pianohacker really? I don't know if that's comforting or sad
01:51 dcook Probably sad
01:51 rangi its better than a lot
01:51 rangi seriously, try voyager
01:51 dcook Mmm, never did see the cataloguing side of Voyager
01:51 dcook I didn't mind Horizon's though
01:51 dcook I could catalogue wicked fast on that
01:51 rangi yeah horizon was ok
01:51 rangi pity they killed it
01:52 dcook What do they have now?
01:52 dcook Alma or is that someone else
01:52 rangi symphony
01:52 wahanui symphony is one of the first systems to have a connector built for it
01:52 pianohacker I saw voyager's for the first time not too long ago, rangi, it is a little terrifying
01:52 rangi which is unicorn really
01:52 pianohacker horizon's editor was the catalyst for rancor's ancient predecessor tho
01:52 dcook pianohacker: I thought it might be
01:52 dcook Wait...
01:52 dcook What?
01:52 dcook rancor's ancient predecessor?
01:52 pianohacker yup
01:53 rangi there have been many attempts at editors in the past :)
01:53 rangi i gave up writing them when someone killed the one i liked the best
01:53 dcook :(
01:53 pianohacker[…]-rebase-text-marc
01:53 rangi[…]aphotos/koha/acq3
01:54 pianohacker dcook: check this out:[…]4/
01:54 dcook rangi: Ahhh yeah. I remember you showing me that one before.
01:54 rangi it died, when we lost the 3 tiered approach
01:54 rangi biblioitems is all that remans
01:54 rangi remains
01:54 pianohacker woah, that's right! proto-frbr!
01:56 dcook neato, pianohacker
01:56 pianohacker could have been like 10 lines of perl and some crazy regexes, but I did weird stuff for fun when I was a kid
01:57 rangi heh
01:57 rangi[…]aphotos/Git_usage
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01:57 rangi i did that in 2007
01:57 rangi when we were about to move to git
01:57 rangi apart from the lines between the developers
01:58 rangi its reasonably accurate
01:58 dcook indeed
01:59 pianohacker oh, cool, it has pictures of the old-school Koha
01:59 pianohacker like pre-2.0
01:59 rangi i dont think i have any really early ones
02:00 rangi wish i had kept some
02:00 dcook A Koha archive would be cool
02:01 * dcook may be procrastinating working on DSpace input forms...
02:01 pianohacker there's some pics of the early curses circ screen
02:01 dcook Yeah, I love those
02:01 rangi ahh that was the rewrite
02:01 rangi the original one used CDK
02:01 rangi thats one using perltk and one using curses::ui
02:02 pianohacker what exactly was the catalyst behind moving to the web?
02:02 rangi it was only ever circ that was cli based
02:02 rangi and basically webbrowsers got fast enough
02:03 rangi that a browser based one was feasible
02:03 rangi plus under load, you could make the c libraries that CDK was built on seg fault
02:03 dcook eep
02:03 rangi hence the rewrite to curses::ui
02:04 rangi which i gave up on, cos steve tonnesen had got a web based one going by then
02:04 pianohacker oh cool a segfault in a perl extension. Did gdb even try to unravel that?
02:05 rangi well it was an XS library
02:05 rangi so it was actually the C
02:05 rangi i tracked it back that far
02:05 rangi which is where i gave up, :)
02:05 pianohacker excellent decision
02:05 rangi when it gets to debugging someone elses C .. i run the other direction
02:06 dcook Love this: "<dc-schema>dc</dc-schema>
02:06 dcook "
02:06 pianohacker amen. unless it's super clean, decoding the control flow and data structures involved is terrible
02:06 rangi speaking of running, i have to get to my kids school sans car
02:07 rangi cyas later
02:07 pianohacker oy :/ good luck rangi, see ya
02:07 dcook later rangi
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02:37 pianohacker bye alll
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02:58 dcook Was just looking at and wondering if anyone has tampered with the alphabetical ordering
02:58 dcook Sure enough, it's chaos!
02:58 dcook Well, maybe not chaos. But slightly not alphabetically ordered :p
02:59 dcook Well, maybe only one or two out of order
02:59 dcook Not that I'm counting...
03:05 dcook Mmm, pill capsules are the best...
03:05 * dcook sings a little song about the joy of antibiotics
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04:18 dcook @query number mix
04:18 huginn dcook: Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10352 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Cataloguing log search mixing itemnumber/bibnumber
04:18 huginn dcook: Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10944 minor, P5 - low, ---, robin, Pushed to Master , Mixed content warnings in results and detail with Amazon images on https
04:18 dcook Hmm, I suppose that was a bit vague..
05:09 ashimema morning
05:09 dcook hola ashimema
05:11 ashimema how are you this fine day dcook
05:12 ashimema oh.. that's an bot command I havent seen before
05:13 * dcook is intrigued
05:13 dcook how are you?
05:14 ashimema I'm good..
05:14 ashimema too early again..
05:14 ashimema but good
05:14 ashimema wish I could sleep better at the moment.. waking up at 5am very day is starting to drag
05:14 dcook Yikes...6am?
05:14 dcook You've already been up for an hour?
05:14 dcook Jeez..
05:14 * dcook was waking up at 6 over the weekend due to coughing fits but that was about it
05:15 dcook Why the early wake ups?
05:19 ashimema not really sure..
05:19 ashimema got allot of work flaoting around my head maybe.
05:19 ashimema currently writing tests for the shibboleth module
05:19 dcook :)
05:19 ashimema finally gt my head around testing last night.
05:20 dcook Yeah, it takes a little while to get it sorted
05:20 ashimema took me ages to work out how to mock the koha config
05:20 dcook Still not sure if we're able to use subtests or not because of module version issues...
05:20 ashimema really.. pants.
05:20 ashimema I've been using subtests in these tests
05:20 dcook You'll want to ask eythian or tcohen about that one
05:21 ashimema cheers
05:21 dcook Read[…].cgi?id=12443#c15 and down
05:21 huginn Bug 12443: normal, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Pushed to Master , Initial re-factoring of buildQuery
05:22 dcook[…]_bug.cgi?id=12689
05:22 huginn Bug 12689: blocker, P3, ---, tomascohen, NEW , Search.t fails to run on Squeeze
05:22 dcook Or that one
05:22 wahanui i think that one is down more often than up
05:22 rangi WTAF
05:22 dcook rangi: ?
05:23 ashimema I see.
05:23 rangi Mail on the mailing list
05:23 dcook dev or general?
05:23 rangi General
05:23 dcook gen I guess
05:23 * dcook has switched to non-digest for dev, but still has digest for general..
05:24 ashimema wat up rangi
05:24 dcook Hmm, not sure I'm looking at the right archive
05:25 rangi For the subtests they will fail on any squeeze install (or precise)
05:26 ashimema poo
05:26 ashimema thanks
05:27 rangi Unless we put a libtest-more-perl in our repo
05:27 dcook Which pulls in half of cpan?
05:27 rangi Unfortunately yeah
05:27 dcook bleargh
05:27 ashimema :(
05:28 rangi I'm not sure of a good solution
05:28 ashimema I'll take my subtests out me thinks
05:28 dcook That's probably the only solution
05:28 rangi At least for the next year or so
05:29 dcook Stop supporting Squeeze when Jessie comes out?
05:29 ashimema :)
05:29 rangi Seems like an ok plan to me
05:29 rangi :)
05:29 dcook :D
05:30 * dcook wonders what'll happen when they run out of character names
05:30 dcook I suppose they could just make more Toy Story forever
05:31 rangi dcook: was the mail asking some one to share the quotes for migration they received
05:31 dcook O_o
05:32 dcook I don't think so
05:32 rangi Yeah
05:32 dcook I might've missed something
05:32 dcook Ahhhh
05:32 dcook You mean in the second one
05:32 rangi Yep
05:33 dcook My bad. I thought you meant the first
05:33 dcook Yes, I believe you're correct
05:34 dcook As for commercial in confidence, no idea there
05:35 rangi I dunno if usians do that, but we do on our quotes
05:35 ashimema nicely answered though chris
05:35 dcook I think we publish most of our standard rates, and do more flexible rates on a case by case basis if there is more work involved for one dataset
05:35 dcook agreed. Well answered indeed :).
05:35 dcook We being Aussies
05:35 dcook Err not Aussies
05:35 dcook Prosentient
05:35 dcook I don't know about back home
05:35 dcook In North America, if money is involved, we rarely ever talk about it
05:35 rangi Yep rates are fine
05:35 dcook Unless it's about how much more you have than someone else :p
05:36 * dcook thinks this is one reason why North Americans are so badly underpaid a lot of the time
05:36 ashimema Indeed.
05:36 rangi But numbers in isolation of the rest  of the data can be quite misleading
05:36 dcook Mmm very very true
05:37 dcook Actually, add a few more "very" on there
05:37 * dcook has seen some terrifying data
05:37 ashimema Why are migrations always undervalued.. customers never seem to understand how important it is to get a migration right.. and how hard that often is.
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05:37 dcook I imagine it's because some vendors arbitrarily charge way more than they need to for easy migrations
05:38 dcook Which makes the cost of a difficult migration seem less warranted :/
05:38 ashimema I've seen some horrifying data.. and have also learnt the hard way how muhc it bites you down the line if you don't spend the effort in the first place getting it right
05:38 * dcook remembers a vendor wanted to charge his library $2000 for a data migration which was very simple
05:38 dcook Hmm, so much for commercial in confidence
05:38 dcook I guess I didn't mention which vendor and which library though :p
05:38 ashimema it's quite the opposite in the UK.. migration is one of the bits vendors heavily discount to win a customer..
05:39 dcook ashimema: So true. Good data is the best.
05:39 dcook That sucks, btw
05:39 cait it's hard to estimate correctly how much time it will take
05:39 dcook Mmm, that's true
05:40 dcook I suppose unless you quote per type of data...
05:40 dcook Which doesn't really help overall
05:40 dcook But might be a bit more accurate
05:40 * dcook is just rambling
05:40 ashimema Yeah.. it sucks as the data migrations man.. your always undervalued here as the general rule is that the big discounts are on the migration stage..  the philosophy is that it's easier to keep a customer (and have that recurring income from support and maintanence) than it is to win them in the first place.
05:41 dcook Mmm, I seem to recall you mentioning that at Kohacon
05:41 dcook It's probably a fairly accurate philosophy
05:41 ashimema yeah.. it works better for the big boys who have evil contracts that people can't get out of..
05:42 * dcook shudders
05:43 dcook I seem to recall our contracts being super flexible
05:43 ashimema to be fair.. our customer retention is great.. but it always worries me when we get small clients that in effect cost us a fair chunk of money in the first year (due to the migration being hard, as often the tiny customers are the hardest migrations).. then decideding after a year that they can't afford/don't need support.
05:43 dcook In the 2.5 years I've been here, I don't know if we've ever lost a client
05:43 dcook One or two closures I think but that's it
05:43 ashimema touch wood we've only had a very small number of those.
05:43 dcook Mmm, yeah, that would be killer
05:43 rangi It's like design
05:43 ashimema yeah.. our contracts are alo super flexible.. part of the open source philosphy
05:43 dcook Design?
05:44 rangi Everyone is all "I could do that"
05:44 dcook hehe
05:44 ashimema :)
05:44 ashimema true, true
05:44 rangi It shouldn't cost that much
05:44 * dcook wishes that he had a designer... and a minion
05:44 dcook rangi: Which shouldn't
05:44 dcook ?
05:45 * cait waves
05:45 rangi That's what people say
05:45 ashimema hi cait
05:45 dcook Mmmm
05:45 dcook I suppose people think that they can do most unregulated professions
05:45 rangi Then they say no not that blue
05:45 dcook Well, even some regulated ones...
05:45 ashimema way of the world unfortunately..
05:45 ashimema enough shared here me thinks ;)
05:45 dcook rangi: Two centimeters to the left
05:46 dcook It's actually quite a thing in the library world...
05:46 dcook Losing the forest for the trees
05:46 rangi Not just libraries
05:46 dcook I imagine not. It's just the world I notice the most often ;)
05:47 * dcook wonders if he could do his own dentistry...
05:47 dcook It can't be that hard...
05:47 rangi :)
05:47 dcook Education is a funny one...
05:47 dcook Australian teachers make so much money...unless you're teaching under 5s
05:48 dcook American counterparts of Australians...making peanuts
05:48 rangi True
05:48 dcook Not that the Aussies don't earn it. Teaching is a tough gig.
05:49 dcook Uh oh. I'm spiralling into my ranting about money and international careers.
05:49 rangi Hehe
05:49 * dcook goes and tries to break something which shouldn't be broken
05:49 rangi Oh hey
05:49 dcook Hmm?
05:49 * dcook apparently answers to "Oh hey" now :p
05:50 rangi The other day mick fortune tweeted about more NHS libraries using Koha
05:50 rangi Some of yours ashimema?
05:52 ashimema quit possible.
05:52 ashimema not seen the tweet
05:55 ashimema I don't use twitter enough..
05:55 rangi Now I can't find it
05:55 ashimema can one search an individuals tweets?
05:55 rangi Not easily
05:55 ashimema aha.. I found it..
05:56 cait now you both made me curious.
05:56 ashimema Hold 'page down' for a while on the page to load a shit load of the tweets.. then searhc using the browser.
05:56 rangi Ahh good idea
05:57 ashimema yup.. that'll be some of our customers :)
05:57 dcook :D
05:57 rangi Cool
05:58 ashimema we got a pretty big consortium Birmingham way fairly recently..
05:59 ashimema group of nhs hostpitals :)
05:59 ashimema hink that'll be the ones he's talking about.
05:59 rangi Awesome
05:59 wahanui That'll be $1 for the awesome jar, rangi
05:59 ashimema It's nice.. we have so much variety in the customers we support now..
05:59 ashimema one day it'll be academics, the next specials or publics.
05:59 cait :)
05:59 dcook Hmm, getting OpacUserJS twice in the SCO but not sure why...
06:00 ashimema keeps things exciting
06:00 * dcook pokes some more
06:00 dcook ashimema: That's awesome :)
06:02 dcook Aha...
06:02 dcook
06:02 ashimema :)
06:02 * dcook double-checks master
06:03 dcook Not that fixing this bug has anything to do with what I should be doing...
06:04 dcook Huh...never knew there was an "onunload" event...
06:04 dcook Maybe because it only works in IE, Firefox, and Safari
06:05 cait hm would one of you be able to check if they get a predue message outof koha?
06:05 cait if you get...
06:05 cait it drove me crazy yesterday trying to produce one
06:05 dcook Isn't it
06:06 dcook Then the number of days overdue as specified in the borrower messaging preference
06:06 dcook ERr
06:06 dcook Not overdue
06:06 dcook Before it's due
06:06 dcook Right...can't remember which date it uses for that...probably items.onloan?
06:08 cait i guess so
06:08 cait but yes that's it
06:08 cait i checked out something due yesterday, set predue ot 1 day before for the patron and ran it
06:08 cait and got... nothing
06:08 cait dues workd
06:09 dcook O_o
06:09 dcook Wouldn't you need the due date to be tomorrow for that to work
06:09 cait argh.
06:09 cait thx :)
06:09 dcook Oh wait, drr
06:09 dcook I think I misread you
06:09 cait no you are right :)
06:09 dcook But yeah, I think it needs to be in the future
06:09 dcook Happy to help :)
06:09 cait that's why you should stop working at some point and just go home i guess...
06:09 dcook True true
06:09 cait lol
06:09 cait can we delete that now out of th elogs? :)
06:10 * dcook is going to enjoy his Friday night...just no idea how yet
06:10 cait couch + book?
06:10 dcook I figure there are so many logs that we'd never be able to track it down
06:10 dcook Well, I did a lot of reading when I was sick last weekend
06:10 cait ah
06:10 * dcook is still technically sick but has read all the things and watched all the Miyazaki movies
06:10 dcook Well, not all of them. Only 3 I hadn't seen before...
06:10 cait that makes it harder
06:10 * dcook is also waiting for the last comic in a series...
06:11 dcook It was unwise to start reading a series where I didn't have the concluding volume
06:11 dcook @later tell cjh locke & key actually turned out to be less "horror" than I thought. The first volume is much more "horror" than the rest.
06:11 huginn dcook: The operation succeeded.
06:11 dcook @later tell cjh more so just dark fantasy
06:11 huginn dcook: The operation succeeded.
06:12 cait ah i hate when that happens
06:12 cait i know hwen i used to always start trilogies by accident where the last book wasn't even published yet
06:13 dcook Mmm, that would be hard
06:13 dcook In this case, I ordered the last volume off Book Depository while I was still home sick
06:13 dcook Haven't even gotten an email to say it's been shipped though yet :(
06:14 dcook As eythian has said, book depository is slow enough that you forget about your order and then it's an unexpected gift to yourself in the future ;)
06:27 dcook Hmm...looks like there might be some issues saving system preferences in master...
06:27 * dcook hopes it's just his database being funny
06:31 cait @wunder Konstanz
06:31 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 16.5°C (8:30 AM CEST on August 01, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 95%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
06:32 dcook @wunder syd
06:32 huginn dcook: The current temperature in Matraville, Sydney, New South Wales is 15.4°C (4:30 PM EST on August 01, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 25%. Dew Point: -4.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Rising).
06:32 cait hmm
06:32 dcook @wunder sydney, australia
06:32 huginn dcook: The current temperature in Matraville, Sydney, New South Wales is 15.4°C (4:30 PM EST on August 01, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 25%. Dew Point: -4.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Rising).
06:32 dcook Looks a bit windy out
06:34 ashimema i read that dcook.. and thought 'how can a person look windy'
06:34 * ashimema looks a bit windy
06:34 ashimema ;)
06:34 dcook :p
06:34 * dcook is certainly long winded
06:36 dcook Hmm
06:38 dcook I'm making one line code it seems silly to put them in different patches
06:38 dcook Yet...
06:41 cait bbiab
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06:49 dcook Quick question...
06:49 dcook Are we removing "prog" in 3.18?
06:49 dcook For the opac
06:50 dcook Also where on earth is the SCO help...
06:52 * dcook assumes you must have to access it manually..
06:55 dcook For anyone wanting the world's easiest sign off: bug 12690
06:55 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12690 minor, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Needs Signoff , opacuserjs gets loaded twice in self checkout
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06:56 alex_a bonjour
06:58 dcook salut, alex_a
06:59 dcook Hmm, looks like I should've looked more at the logs from the last dev meeting..
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07:19 dcook Sweet. Going to a local music show tonight. Huzzah!
07:19 * dcook wonders if the kids still say "Huzzah!"
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07:23 cait back
07:25 dcook wb cait :)
07:29 cait go home! :)
07:31 dcook Hmm, probably an idea
07:31 dcook Actually, a friend is going to be performing at a local music thing, so I think I'm going to that
07:31 dcook :D
07:31 cait ... as long as you finally leave work :)
07:31 dcook But...I had forgotten to charge my it's just starting now...
07:32 dcook Who am I kidding. I'm not doing any work anymore anyway.
07:32 dcook Everything would suck me in and I do want to leave soon
07:33 * dcook says that and then looks at doing some work for another client
07:34 dcook Nope, nope, nope. Way too time consuming after all...
07:37 dcook Hmm, looks like my books are about to become overdue at the library...
07:38 ashimema go home dude
07:38 ashimema i mean that in the nicest possible way.
07:39 dcook And...the proprietary library system for my local public library is broken
07:39 cait go home.
07:39 cait heh
07:39 cait or to that concert, but go! :)
07:41 dcook Says the two people who started working on Koha at 6am :p
07:41 dcook Yeah, I think it's time for supper and webcomics
07:42 dcook laterz have a good friday/weekend
07:43 cait hm his comment reminded me i forgot to pqa on the cas patch earlier
07:44 ashimema lol
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07:47 cait ashimema: do you think sqashing the last 2 on bug 12398 would be ok?
07:47 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12398 critical, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Signed Off , CAS authentication not working
07:47 cait adding the file and then movng it seems a bit complicated
07:47 cait jajm: around?
07:47 jajm hi cait
07:54 * cait did it
07:55 cait ah
07:55 cait jajm: just wante dto ask if it's ok to squash your last 2 patches on bug 12398
07:55 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12398 critical, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Passed QA , CAS authentication not working
07:57 cait .. and then i did it
08:01 jajm cait, of course it's ok ;) thanks for doing it
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08:49 * ashimema is happy and deflated at the same time!
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08:49 cait huh?
08:50 ashimema writing tests for this shib patch has enlightened me as to how badly it's written.. :s
08:50 cait oh
08:50 ashimema it works perfectly.. but the code is 'nasty'
08:50 ashimema i'm making it a bit less nasty with a followup as part of the tests..
08:50 cait ok
08:51 ashimema but tcohen is right.. it would be much nicer done OO in the first place
08:51 ashimema anywho..
08:51 ashimema we're getting there now with the tests at last.
08:51 gerundio hi, good morning
08:52 gerundio is git bz still the way to go to attach bug patches to Koha's bugzilla?
08:54 rangi yep
08:54 rangi its the easiest way
08:55 rangi you can do it manually as well, but git-bz is easier if you plan to do more than a few
08:56 ashimema unless you have utf8 chars in your name.. then git bz is next to useless ;)
08:57 ashimema minor pet hate of cait and I's
08:57 ashimema brb.. fecking skype killed my monitors again..
08:57 rangi that should be fixable
08:57 cait ashimema: we need to talk someone with python knowledge into fixing this...
08:57 rangi python is a bit ropey with its utf8 handling, but it can be made to work
08:58 cait rangi: it works on a git bz edit just fine, just the combination of git bz attach -e is broken
08:58 cait but it's always a doh and addtional steps moment
08:58 cait so if you do it often... it gets pretty annoying
08:58 gerundio I get the "NameError: global name 'host' is not defined" error message on git bz attach
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08:59 gerundio is that what your referring to cait?
08:59 cait nope
08:59 rangi nope
08:59 ashimema bck
08:59 cait go back to the documentation
08:59 rangi that just means you havent defined the host
08:59 cait and check that you set the parameters
08:59 cait the wiki page shoudl have an example
08:59 ashimema did I miss anything?
08:59 cait ashimema: all is well
09:00 ashimema town crier cait.. I like it.
09:00 ashimema now where was I before Skype so rudely interrupted me
09:01 cait you wanted to sign off on all my patches :P
09:02 gerundio cait, I've ran all the git config instructions
09:03 gerundio I've checked on my .gitconfig file and they are properly set
09:03 gerundio there's no mention to "host"
09:04 cait gerundio: did you check out the fishsoup branch of git bz?
09:04 gerundio yes
09:04 gerundio now I'm getting "Commit is already in remote branch(es): origin/bug_12669"
09:05 gerundio "Rewrite the commit add the bug URL anyways? [yn]"
09:05 cait what command did you run?
09:06 gerundio "git bz attach 12669 HEAD"
09:06 ashimema never seen that one before.
09:07 ashimema attach should just throw it at bugzilla..
09:07 ashimema not onto a branch somewhere
09:07 rangi if you dont have the bug number in your commit
09:07 rangi it will do a commit --amend
09:07 rangi to add it
09:08 rangi thats just git warning you that its already upstream
09:08 cait ah
09:08 ashimema wow.. I didn't know it did that..
09:08 ashimema cool
09:08 rangi newer git does that when --amend a pushed commit
09:08 cait so gerundio: do a git commit --amend and make sure you have Bug xxxx at the beginning of the first line
09:11 gerundio done
09:11 gerundio thanks for the help cait
09:11 gerundio[…]g.cgi?id=12669#c5
09:11 huginn Bug 12669: blocker, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , "Template process failed: undef error - Invalid local time for date in time zone"
09:12 gerundio I just read Chris' comment
09:12 gerundio is my patch valid there?
09:13 rangi mostly
09:13 rangi except its missing a good commit message, with a test plan
09:13 gerundio I'll add a new comment with the test plan
09:13 rangi it should look something like
09:14 rangi Bug: 12669 Fixing date handling when using dates without time
09:14 rangi Test:
09:14 rangi blah blah
09:14 wahanui hmmm... blah blah is important
09:14 rangi it is wahanui
09:15 rangi but other than that, the code itself looks ok
09:15 gerundio I'm on it rangi, it's been too long since I've submitted my last patch to Koha :|
09:30 rangi bonus points if you send a follow up that adds a test to t/DateUtils.t
09:30 rangi to test the handling of dates without times
09:37 ashimema for tcohen to accept.. you'll likely need the tests ;)
09:37 ashimema in fact.. i'm now being picky about tests when I QA (and I think cait is too)
09:42 ashimema is Test::Carp in our dependencies?
09:42 * ashimema goes digging..
09:55 ashimema any testing gurus here..
09:55 ashimema even better.. Test::Carp gurus
10:04 cait back
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11:25 cait khall++
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11:35 ashimema is it just me or is irc really flaky today.
11:41 cait seems flaky
11:41 ashimema glad it's not just me..
11:42 ashimema i really aught to work out how to turn off the joined notifications..
11:42 ashimema when irc is like this it makes conversations impossible to follow
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11:52 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
11:52 mtompset Wow, FLOOOD!
11:52 mtompset Greetings, ashimema cait.
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11:59 mtompset This be crazy!
11:59 mtompset Have a great day, #koha.
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12:23 tcohen morning
12:24 cait good morning tcohen :)
12:28 cait hmhmhm
12:28 cait testing serial alert emails ... and can't get them working
12:28 cait quite annoying
12:30 tcohen hi cait
12:31 tcohen gerundio: did you manage to write your patch?
12:33 gerundio tcohen, I wrote the patch
12:33 oleonard joined #koha
12:34 gerundio I had to leave in a hurry earlier, I'm back and will now finish writing the test plan
12:34 wada joined #koha
12:34 wada hi INS
12:35 INS_ joined #koha
12:35 INS_ Hi wada
12:35 tcohen gerundio: have you written patches before?
12:35 INS_ ok
12:35 gerundio just one
12:35 gerundio long time ago
12:36 INS_ can i add pdf file on koha
12:37 oleonard Hi #koha
12:37 nengard left #koha
12:37 INS_ can i add pdf file on koha
12:38 oleonard Can you be more specific INS_? What are you trying to do?
12:38 INS_ how to add books to koha catalog
12:39 oleonard manual?
12:39 wahanui manual is at
12:40 nengard joined #koha
12:42 INS_ can i add create a link to the book i add on catalog
12:44 INS_ can i add create a link to the book i add on catalog
12:45 INS_ nengard pls send me your phone number
12:45 oleonard INS_: I suggest you follow the link to the Koha manual and start there
12:45 INS_ ok
12:46 oleonard INS_: That is not an appropriate request to make of nengard
12:46 INS_ ok
12:47 nengard Hi all, INS_ I'm here if you have a question of me
12:48 INS_ ok how to download marc record download
12:48 INS_ i need free site where i can get free ebooks
12:49 paul_p flights booked for Cordoba !
12:49 oleonard That's not really a Koha question INS_
12:49 gerundio[…]g.cgi?id=12669#c6
12:49 huginn Bug 12669: blocker, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , "Template process failed: undef error - Invalid local time for date in time zone"
12:50 ashimema :( paul made me sad.. wish i was going to kohacon this year.
12:50 cait congrats paul_p :)
12:50 gerundio I just submitted the test plan for the bug
12:50 cait ashimema: i wished you were going too :(
12:50 paul_p cait = do you come ?
12:50 gerundio hope that it complies with the standards
12:50 ashimema gerundio++
12:50 paul_p ashimema :((( (can I do something to convince your boss ? ;-) )
12:50 cait paul_p: yep all booked
12:50 cait but didn't get to add my info to the wiki yet
12:51 INS_ @oleonard why do you said that
12:51 huginn INS_: downloading the Perl source
12:51 paul_p cait good news !
12:51 paul_p cait coralt too ?
12:51 cait yes
12:51 cait i think you needto fix your dates on the wiki
12:51 cait you are staying only 1 night :)
12:52 paul_p yes, that's my plan. 35h flight x2 for 1 night in Cordoba :D :D
12:52 paul_p (fixed)
12:53 cait mine is 4-17th i think
12:53 cait so you are planning on vacation too?
12:53 ashimema haha.. thanks paul_p, nah, we're just crazy busy at the moment so I've not even asked.  Hoping that way when hackfest comes around I can get away with that one instead ;)
12:53 ashimema think it's an either or this time around for me :)
12:54 paul_p cait yes, and it's also because the monday flight was awfully expensive (with AF), and no flight on tuesday
12:55 cait vacation for me this year
12:55 cait :)
12:55 paul_p staying 2 more nights at coralt will be way cheaper than flying back immediately. Poor us, we will have to visit the area for 2 days :D :D
12:55 ashimema ooh.. you did a pull request on github for that bug too gerundio.. nice.. sure tcohen will like that.. though I have no idea who runs the Koha-Community account
12:56 gerundio it seems like I didn't follow all the rules :|
12:56 gerundio should I repeat the process on koha's own git repository?
12:56 cait paul_p: your arrival and departure times are evil
12:56 paul_p that's my feeling too...
12:57 paul_p note that 1:10 AM for arrival may be not that evil = we will be very very tired, and despite our body thinking its 7AM, we will fall asleep easily.
12:57 ashimema nah.. the patch attached to bz is perfect :)
12:58 cait added my dates, have to look up the time
12:58 cait s
12:58 cait and they already changed once... but landing an hour earlier now than planned
12:58 * ashimema would like to move to github pull requests model.. but we have bz and that works well enough for us at the moment
12:58 paul_p what will probably be *very* hard will be the 3 hours waiting at San Paolo, then the 3 hours flight in a A320
12:58 cait flying with aerolinea argentina... hoping it works out
12:58 paul_p flying MRS > CDG > San Paulo > COR
12:59 paul_p (joubu flying Manchester > CDG > San Paulo > COR)
12:59 cait i think you might have the better route
12:59 cait i am doing züich - madrid - buenos aires - cordoba
13:00 paul_p and correct connections, except when flying back: 6H waiting at San Paulo :(
13:00 cait hm not so long times for me i think
13:01 cait and shorter time overall
13:01 cait i think about 24 hours, but really have to check the documents
13:01 ashimema don't get any spirits in duty free until your through madrid cait..
13:02 ashimema else security will steal them.  even if they are in sealed marked duty free bags
13:02 nengard INS_ sorry was distracted, you can use Z39.50 to download records if you'd like
13:02 cait i didn't plan on bringing spirits
13:02 nengard IRSpy is a great site to find Z targets on
13:02 cait ashimema: also fromt he suitcase?
13:02 ashimema nengard, INS_  you might be best having that conversation in private chat between yourselves..
13:03 nengard Why? Z targets are part of Koha
13:03 ashimema easier to track for you instead of having to pick through our mumblings here.
13:03 ashimema ^
13:03 ashimema indeed they are.. i was trying to be nice ;)
13:03 ashimema nah.. they'll be ok in your hold luguage..
13:03 ashimema it's the hand luguage they sting you for..
13:04 ashimema they take you back through customs  in madrid.. and ignore the 'DUTY FREE' stickers on sealed bags.
13:04 nengard understood ashimema and thanks
13:04 nengard and ewww about madrid
13:04 ashimema You can't get out of the airport or anything.... they're just uber strict..
13:05 nengard never flew through there so I did not know that
13:05 ashimema everyone around me on my way back from peru got stung for it..
13:06 cait soudns like a fun trip
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13:15 tcohen hi again, massive power outage
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13:16 cait oh ouch
13:17 cait tcohen: we were talking about our trips to argentina a bit earlier
13:17 tcohen i missed that, unfortunately
13:19 tcohen :-D
13:20 * tcohen is reading the logs
13:20 tcohen really happy to know we'll have you here people
13:20 tcohen have we just updated jenkins? :-D
13:21 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 12398: Fix CAS authentication validation <[…]5589761f185e34453> / Bug 12398: (followup) tidy unit tests <[…]bacd953cac72cfbb7> / Bug 12398: Add test for C4::Auth_with_cas::_url_with_get_params <[…].git;a=commitdiff
13:23 tcohen CAS in
13:24 * cait grumps
13:24 cait not about cas
13:24 cait but about acctdeteails notice
13:34 ashimema tcohen++ CAS
13:34 ashimema my shib tests are coming along nicely..
13:34 ashimema though I have given up on one fo the tests I wanted to write.. can't get it to play nice.. might bug you at some point for advice tcohen ;)
13:42 oleonard Trying to attach a signed-off patch dealing with UTF-8 and can't because git-bz has a problem dealing with UTF-8 :P
13:42 * ashimema feels for you
13:43 * cait is trying out every single mail koha can send...
13:45 oleonard Joubu: After looking at Bug 12637 I wonder if we need to add a coding guideline to prevent future problems like it?
13:45 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12637 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , UTF-8 problems when creating a patron list from the patron search results page
13:46 oleonard Joubu: A guideline for when to use encodeURIComponent() or something similar?
13:47 tcohen joined #koha
13:48 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.14.x_D7 build #15: FAILURE in 22 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]oha_3.14.x_D7/15/
13:48 jenkins_koha * Fridolin Somers: Bug 12071: improve generation of Z39.50 search links
13:48 jenkins_koha * Robin Sheat: Bug 11947 - renumber reserves when hold is confirmed
13:48 jenkins_koha * Galen Charlton: Bug 12079: ensure that CheckReserves() includes reserve_id in its response
13:48 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Master_U12 build #86: FAILURE in 20 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ha_Master_U12/86/
13:48 jenkins_koha * Julian Maurice: Bug 12398: Add test for C4::Auth_with_cas::_url_with_get_params
13:48 jenkins_koha * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Bug 12398: (followup) tidy unit tests
13:48 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12071 minor, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, Pushed to Stable , javascript broken for a search with double quotes
13:48 jenkins_koha * Julian Maurice: Bug 12398: Fix CAS authentication validation
13:48 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11947 major, P5 - low, ---, robin, Pushed to Stable , Hold priorities not re-calculated when hold is confirmed on checkin.
13:48 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Master_D6 build #64: FAILURE in 26 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]oha_Master_D6/64/
13:48 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12079 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmc, Pushed to Master , CheckReserves() and _Findgroupreserve do not return reserve_id
13:48 jenkins_koha * Julian Maurice: Bug 12398: Add test for C4::Auth_with_cas::_url_with_get_params
13:48 jenkins_koha * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Bug 12398: (followup) tidy unit tests
13:48 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12398 critical, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Pushed to Master , CAS authentication not working
13:48 jenkins_koha * Julian Maurice: Bug 12398: Fix CAS authentication validation
13:48 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Master_U14 build #83: FAILURE in 17 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ha_Master_U14/83/
13:48 jenkins_koha * Julian Maurice: Bug 12398: Add test for C4::Auth_with_cas::_url_with_get_params
13:48 jenkins_koha * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Bug 12398: (followup) tidy unit tests
13:48 jenkins_koha * Julian Maurice: Bug 12398: Fix CAS authentication validation
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14:04 tcohen ashimema: no problem at all
14:05 ashimema :)
14:06 tcohen #koha expect jenkins to fail during the next couple of hours, because of networking issues with the nodes
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14:43 tcohen ashimema: around?
14:46 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Master_D7 build #78: UNSTABLE in 55 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]oha_Master_D7/78/
14:46 jenkins_koha * Julian Maurice: Bug 12398: Add test for C4::Auth_with_cas::_url_with_get_params
14:46 jenkins_koha * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Bug 12398: (followup) tidy unit tests
14:46 jenkins_koha * Julian Maurice: Bug 12398: Fix CAS authentication validation
14:46 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12398 critical, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Pushed to Master , CAS authentication not working
14:55 ashimema I am now tcohen.
14:55 ashimema sorry.. was on the phone
14:55 tcohen no problem
14:55 tcohen i'd like to know how long will you be around
14:55 tcohen to take a look at my LDAP unit tests
14:56 ashimema the family are stealing me off in about an hour
14:56 ashimema :)
14:56 ashimema more than happy to take a look though.
14:56 ashimema I've been hacking away at my shib ones for allot of today.. learned allot
14:56 ashimema even found a bug in the module that no-one doing sign-off had spotted!
14:57 ashimema and we've been using te code in production for like a year!
14:57 ashimema scary
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15:00 tcohen unit_tests++
15:00 ashimema indeed
15:02 ashimema fancy a swap then.. would love to have your opinion on my shib tests too now that they're well on their way to completion.. would be nice to know if they cover too much/too little.. are actually useful and whether they're implemented ok.. or in a nasty amateurish way ;)  I'm good with constructive criticism.
15:02 ashimema Just gonna clean up the branch a bit.. currenlty it's a mess of 'why the bleep doesn't this work' commits ;)
15:05 paul_p tcohen = have you seen my previous message saying flight was booked ? ;-)
15:05 tcohen yes!!!!!
15:05 paul_p (staying until 15th)
15:05 tcohen awesome!
15:05 wahanui That'll be $1 for the awesome jar, tcohen
15:05 tcohen i said "really happy to know we'll have you here people"
15:10 pug joined #koha
15:11 pug HI - is there anybody out there?
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15:42 rhcl this is interesting...brand new user, brand new profile, first login to koha (nothing in browser cache)
15:42 rhcl using firefox on linux mint.
15:42 rhcl She's the new TS supervisor, and we tried to get her logged onto the staff client, but failed because her profile wasn't right
15:43 rhcl but see made several login attempts using her library card and password, (again, all failed)
15:43 jcamins rhcl: and it works on other computers?
15:44 rhcl patience  patience, I'm typing as can as I fast
15:44 jcamins Heh.
15:45 rhcl She has a valid user account, so we had her login to the opac, and it did an immediate login there without her
15:45 rhcl entering a passowrd.
15:45 rhcl Obviously it had read the valid password attempt from the staff client login attempt
15:46 cait rhcl: does she have the correct permissions to access staff?
15:46 cait she will need... i think catalogue
15:46 rhcl yea, we're all working on that. My surprise was that she was able to login to the OPAC without entering a password
15:47 rhcl because of her failed staaff login attempts
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15:59 JasonBurds Does anyone here use EZProxy and possibly limit access to certain database based upon patron category?
16:05 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Master_D7 build #79: STILL UNSTABLE in 47 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]oha_Master_D7/79/
16:09 paul_p week-end start now for me !!!
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17:00 aruntomar hi, we are facing an issue with koha+ldap integration. could somebody suggest a solution. issue is pasted on the link
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18:04 pug hi cait
18:04 cait hi pug
18:05 pug We are really stuck at the ldap integration issue pasted above by aruntomar
18:05 pug is there anyone whos a pro on that?
18:08 pug our password comparison (in ) is failing us
18:11 cait sorry, ldap is not my area of expertise
18:12 ashimema That looks to me like an error further up the stack..
18:12 pug oh ok - any idea whos?
18:12 cait are you using patron attributes?
18:12 ashimema Looks like Net::LDAP is outputting it.. I can't see mention of it in our code..
18:12 cait i haven't seen the paste, but patron attributes can cause problems
18:13 pug what do you mean exactly by that cait?
18:13 cait can you repaste?
18:13 cait that there is a known problem with the mappings if you have patron attributes defined - I think
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18:14 ashimema ok pug.. we need a few more details about how your ldap config in koha looks..
18:14 ashimema auth by bind..
18:14 ashimema anonymous bind..
18:14 wahanui i heard anonymous bind was very common
18:14 ashimema that sort of thing.
18:16 aruntomar it's auth by bind
18:16 aruntomar it's authenticating correctly
18:17 ashimema so.. looking at that paste..
18:17 aruntomar i'll paste the code that's causing the issue in pastebin
18:18 ashimema you've got a one to one mapping between ldap/active directory fields and koha borrower fields
18:18 ashimema ok.. will wiat for your paste
18:18 tcohen hiii
18:18 ashimema hi tcohen
18:19 oleonard ashimema++ # working late?
18:19 ashimema hi oleonard..
18:19 aruntomar
18:20 ashimema sorta.. about to disappear again actually.. was mostly checking if tcohen had left me any messages ;)
18:20 ashimema and then ldap caught my eye.
18:20 aruntomar after i commented that code, we are able to login, and koha replicates all the fields in the patrons etc
18:20 tcohen ashimema: whatsthat?
18:21 tcohen ah
18:21 ashimema nothing mate
18:21 ashimema :)
18:21 tcohen i'm mixing
18:21 tcohen comments
18:21 wahanui comments are turned on
18:21 ashimema hehe
18:21 ashimema :)
18:22 ashimema aruntomar..
18:22 ashimema so you're 'not' doing auth_by_bind
18:22 ashimema that's rare these days?
18:23 aruntomar k, u mean the auth_by_bind in the koha_conf.xml
18:24 aruntomar yes, i had to disable that as it was not working
18:24 aruntomar <auth_by_bind>0</auth_by_bind>
18:25 aruntomar that's the current setting
18:26 aruntomar if i use auth_by_bind, then it fails
18:27 aruntomar LDAP bind failed as kohauser UUser1: LDAP error #32: LDAP_NO_SUCH_OBJECT
18:27 ashimema i see.. so your ldap server doesn't use bind..
18:28 ashimema what ldap server are you using?
18:28 aruntomar it does use bind
18:28 aruntomar 389ds
18:29 cait which koha version?
18:29 aruntomar i can see in the ldap logs, all the details getting logged about the bind dn and it's authentication/query.
18:30 pug cait:  kohaversion : 3.1601000
18:30 cait ok
18:30 cait not toooldthen
18:31 tcohen ashimema: I'm getting closer :-D
18:31 ashimema :)
18:33 aruntomar so what would u suggest, would be the correct approach to debug and fix this issue.
18:34 ashimema to me.. it looks like you're getting a good anonymous bind (assuming you've not got user and password defined in the koha-conf) for an initial auth.. then we're doing a search using that user for the person trying to login to koha (UUser1)..
18:35 aruntomar i have defined directory manager in the koha-conf.xml
18:35 pastebot "tcohen" at pasted "ashimema: so far" (25 lines) at
18:35 ashimema it's that second search that's failing as it's not finding the user when comparing password
18:35 ashimema nice work!
18:36 ashimema we're getting pretty good coverage there!.. that's fantastic
18:36 ashimema tcohen++
18:36 ashimema and again tcohen++
18:36 ashimema have you used ldapsearch (the command line tool) before?
18:37 ashimema might be worth trying the same search using it to narrow it down a little.
18:37 aruntomar
18:37 aruntomar this is the current ldap config in koha-conf.xml that works
18:37 cait tcohen++
18:38 aruntomar ashimema: yes, i've  used ldapsearch extensively with bind to confirm the same.
18:39 ashimema I'm wondering if it's got somthing to do with what rights your directory manager has in your ldap server to do searches and binds
18:40 ashimema as your not using auth_by_bind.. we're calling a ldap->compare on the password field for a the koha user
18:40 ashimema which is coming back false from your server.
18:42 ashimema the other thing I could think of is maybe your attributes are mapped slighlty differently to normal in your ldap server.. is 'userpassword' the right attribute to check against for a password?
18:43 ashimema hmm
18:44 aruntomar password is getting replicated to koha db from ldap, with the work around, so i don't think that user mapping might be an issue
18:45 ashimema so you've checked that an ldapsearch using 'directory manager' for initial authentication can see the 'UUser1' user in a search and is returned the 'userpassword' attribute
18:45 ashimema ignore that.. you beat me to it.
18:45 ashimema ah...
18:46 ashimema 'userPassword' not 'userpassword'..  i didn't think ldap was case sensative but maybe your is?
18:47 ashimema try replacing attr=>'userpassword' with attr=>'userPassword' in Auth_with_ldap near that block lines 161->167 and uncomenting the commented bit again for a test please?
18:47 ashimema you may have found a bug in our code.. though I'm still not really sure..
18:48 aruntomar
18:48 ashimema there are too many variations on ldap to count :).. so bugs happen
18:49 aruntomar the output above is with the code commented, let me try to use case sensitive userpassword and check
18:50 ashimema it 'shouldnt' make a difference.. but i'm starting to clutch at straws.. sorry
18:50 ashimema it's been a long day ;)
18:51 aruntomar no that case sensitive userpassword give that same ldap compare error
18:52 ashimema hmm.
18:52 ashimema i'm all out of ideas for the minutes then.. sorry
18:52 aruntomar no problem
18:53 aruntomar just a request, keep an eye in in this one
18:53 aruntomar it looks to me like a bug
18:53 ashimema I find it odd that auth_by_bind fails to start with to be fair..
18:54 ashimema I'm less surprised if the not auth_by_bind method has bugs.. I tihnk it's fairly rarely used among our users these days.. I don't think i've ever come across someone using it myself.
18:57 aruntomar i've seen the logs, if i use auth_by_bind, then whatever user/pass we provide, it sends an empty bind dn, and that's y it fails
18:58 ashimema 0odd indeed..
18:59 ashimema right.. i'de best clock off i'm afraid otherwise the misses with get upset (it's 8pm here already)
18:59 ashimema dpavlin is the most familiar with ldap here I think..
18:59 ashimema if he's about..
18:59 ashimema good luck
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19:01 aruntomar thanks for all the help and brainstorming
19:09 aruntomar left #koha
19:17 tcohen ashimema...
19:17 wahanui ashimema is on qa now .)
19:17 tcohen[…]5bf79534511a55779
19:18 pianohacker joined #koha
19:30 tcohen bye #koha
19:31 gmcharlt ashimema: re wiki - I can prune the category plugins readily
19:31 gmcharlt ashimema: but first, it's long overdue for a mediawiki upgrade
19:31 gmcharlt so I guess upshot: which of the category plugins do you want to keep?
19:33 tcohen gmcharlt: how do we handle developm ent dependencies?
19:33 tcohen i want to add Test::MockObject
19:33 gmcharlt tcohen: we don't as such
19:34 gmcharlt what I'd suggest - in C4::Installer::PerlDeps... declare a 'dev' tag
19:34 jcamins tcohen: we require them because if we don't package building fails.
19:34 gmcharlt that knows how to deal with when reporting
19:34 gmcharlt and see about doing a koha-dev-deps package or the like
19:35 gmcharlt but yeah, to emphasize jcamins' point, anything that gets used by 'make test' needs to be a full-blown dep
19:35 gmcharlt ...
19:35 gmcharlt well, maybe just a package build dep, come to think of it
19:36 tcohen[…]9efe639206f52b78d
19:36 jcamins gmcharlt: is there a separate class of package-building dependencies?
19:37 gmcharlt jcamins: I believe you can declare them for package bulds, yes
19:37 tcohen it is not needed for building, just for running prove t/db_dependent
19:37 jcamins gmcharlt: interesting.
19:37 wahanui it has been said that interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
19:37 gmcharlt yep, Build-Depends
19:41 oleonard have a good weekend all
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21:25 ashimema That is interesting
21:25 ashimema thanks gmcharlt
21:25 ashimema the most annoying category plugin is the one that adds a huge long list of categories to every editor page..
21:26 ashimema makes quick edits very cumbersome.
21:26 ashimema but i'm also sure the way some of those plugins are interacting with each other is causing strange issue..
21:27 ashimema i.e. somthing is preventing category markup from appearing in the edit area.. i.e. [[category::categoryname]] doesn't work on our wiki.. which is very counter productive for anyone whose used any other mediawiki based wiki on the planet ;)
21:29 ashimema I’d be happy to lend assistance to upgrading at some point.. I sued to do allot of mediawiki.. I'd be tempted to also port it from postgres to mysql too tbh.. mysql is certainly much more well supported in the mediawiki circles.. 99% of extensions are mysql specific.. many work on postgres.. but your much more 'on your own' when they don't.
21:29 ashimema bed time now..
21:29 bag night night ashimema
21:41 dani joined #koha
21:44 dani hello.  It's been a while.  I was wondering if anyone has experience with the 952$n (reserves) working or not working? via the schema is it supposed to:number of times this item has been placed on hold/reserved but I checked  a couple big sites and don't see any of them tally this up. I checked sys prefs and nothing jumped out at me.
22:06 dani left #koha
22:24 rangi ashimema_zzzzz: my problems with github, its not free software, and running a free software project on non free software seems very hypocritical to me, and they also have some pretty serious sexism issues in management
22:25 rangi gitorious i wouldnt mind, as its agpl3
22:26 rangi however i think it would be moving for the sake of moving, rather than solving any problem, as demonstrated by getting 2 project managers and the HR coordinate to submit a patch under our current system, it's not that hard, also it would break our sign off and qa workflow, unless we moved to gerrit or something also

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