Time  Nick         Message
22:26 rangi        however i think it would be moving for the sake of moving, rather than solving any problem, as demonstrated by getting 2 project managers and the HR coordinate to submit a patch under our current system, it's not that hard, also it would break our sign off and qa workflow, unless we moved to gerrit or something also
22:25 rangi        gitorious i wouldnt mind, as its agpl3
22:24 rangi        ashimema_zzzzz: my problems with github, its not free software, and running a free software project on non free software seems very hypocritical to me, and they also have some pretty serious sexism issues in management
21:44 dani         hello.  It's been a while.  I was wondering if anyone has experience with the 952$n (reserves) working or not working? via the schema is it supposed to:number of times this item has been placed on hold/reserved but I checked  a couple big sites and don't see any of them tally this up. I checked sys prefs and nothing jumped out at me.
21:29 bag          night night ashimema
21:29 ashimema     bed time now..
21:29 ashimema     I’d be happy to lend assistance to upgrading at some point.. I sued to do allot of mediawiki.. I'd be tempted to also port it from postgres to mysql too tbh.. mysql is certainly much more well supported in the mediawiki circles.. 99% of extensions are mysql specific.. many work on postgres.. but your much more 'on your own' when they don't.
21:27 ashimema     i.e. somthing is preventing category markup from appearing in the edit area.. i.e. [[category::categoryname]] doesn't work on our wiki.. which is very counter productive for anyone whose used any other mediawiki based wiki on the planet ;)
21:26 ashimema     but i'm also sure the way some of those plugins are interacting with each other is causing strange issue..
21:26 ashimema     makes quick edits very cumbersome.
21:25 ashimema     the most annoying category plugin is the one that adds a huge long list of categories to every editor page..
21:25 ashimema     thanks gmcharlt
21:25 ashimema     That is interesting
19:41 oleonard     have a good weekend all
19:37 gmcharlt     yep, Build-Depends
19:37 wahanui      it has been said that interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
19:37 jcamins      gmcharlt: interesting.
19:37 tcohen       it is not needed for building, just for running prove t/db_dependent
19:37 gmcharlt     jcamins: I believe you can declare them for package bulds, yes
19:36 jcamins      gmcharlt: is there a separate class of package-building dependencies?
19:36 tcohen       https://github.com/tomascohen/koha/commit/98839946d0b1e134afca9ef9efe639206f52b78d
19:35 gmcharlt     well, maybe just a package build dep, come to think of it
19:35 gmcharlt     ...
19:35 gmcharlt     but yeah, to emphasize jcamins' point, anything that gets used by 'make test' needs to be a full-blown dep
19:34 gmcharlt     and see about doing a koha-dev-deps package or the like
19:34 gmcharlt     that koha_perl_deps.pl knows how to deal with when reporting
19:34 jcamins      tcohen: we require them because if we don't package building fails.
19:34 gmcharlt     what I'd suggest - in C4::Installer::PerlDeps... declare a 'dev' tag
19:33 gmcharlt     tcohen: we don't as such
19:33 tcohen       i want to add Test::MockObject
19:33 tcohen       gmcharlt: how do we handle developm ent dependencies?
19:31 gmcharlt     so I guess upshot: which of the category plugins do you want to keep?
19:31 gmcharlt     ashimema: but first, it's long overdue for a mediawiki upgrade
19:31 gmcharlt     ashimema: re wiki - I can prune the category plugins readily
19:30 tcohen       bye #koha
19:17 tcohen       https://github.com/tomascohen/koha/commit/6ea22e1bf5297c9d461bfe65bf79534511a55779
19:17 wahanui      ashimema is on qa now .)
19:17 tcohen       ashimema...
19:01 aruntomar    thanks for all the help and brainstorming
18:59 ashimema     good luck
18:59 ashimema     if he's about..
18:59 ashimema     dpavlin is the most familiar with ldap here I think..
18:59 ashimema     right.. i'de best clock off i'm afraid otherwise the misses with get upset (it's 8pm here already)
18:58 ashimema     0odd indeed..
18:57 aruntomar    i've seen the logs, if i use auth_by_bind, then whatever user/pass we provide, it sends an empty bind dn, and that's y it fails
18:54 ashimema     I'm less surprised if the not auth_by_bind method has bugs.. I tihnk it's fairly rarely used among our users these days.. I don't think i've ever come across someone using it myself.
18:53 ashimema     I find it odd that auth_by_bind fails to start with to be fair..
18:53 aruntomar    it looks to me like a bug
18:53 aruntomar    just a request, keep an eye in in this one
18:52 aruntomar    no problem
18:52 ashimema     i'm all out of ideas for the minutes then.. sorry
18:52 ashimema     hmm.
18:51 aruntomar    no that case sensitive userpassword give that same ldap compare error
18:50 ashimema     it's been a long day ;)
18:50 ashimema     it 'shouldnt' make a difference.. but i'm starting to clutch at straws.. sorry
18:49 aruntomar    the output above is with the code commented, let me try to use case sensitive userpassword and check
18:48 ashimema     there are too many variations on ldap to count :).. so bugs happen
18:48 aruntomar    http://paste.koha-community.org/135
18:47 ashimema     you may have found a bug in our code.. though I'm still not really sure..
18:47 ashimema     try replacing attr=>'userpassword' with attr=>'userPassword' in Auth_with_ldap near that block lines 161->167 and uncomenting the commented bit again for a test please?
18:46 ashimema     'userPassword' not 'userpassword'..  i didn't think ldap was case sensative but maybe your is?
18:45 ashimema     ah...
18:45 ashimema     ignore that.. you beat me to it.
18:45 ashimema     so you've checked that an ldapsearch using 'directory manager' for initial authentication can see the 'UUser1' user in a search and is returned the 'userpassword' attribute
18:44 aruntomar    password is getting replicated to koha db from ldap, with the work around, so i don't think that user mapping might be an issue
18:43 ashimema     hmm
18:42 ashimema     the other thing I could think of is maybe your attributes are mapped slighlty differently to normal in your ldap server.. is 'userpassword' the right attribute to check against for a password?
18:40 ashimema     which is coming back false from your server.
18:40 ashimema     as your not using auth_by_bind.. we're calling a ldap->compare on the password field for a the koha user
18:39 ashimema     I'm wondering if it's got somthing to do with what rights your directory manager has in your ldap server to do searches and binds
18:38 aruntomar    ashimema: yes, i've  used ldapsearch extensively with bind to confirm the same.
18:37 cait         tcohen++
18:37 aruntomar    this is the current ldap config in koha-conf.xml that works
18:37 aruntomar    http://paste.koha-community.org/134
18:37 ashimema     might be worth trying the same search using it to narrow it down a little.
18:36 ashimema     have you used ldapsearch (the command line tool) before?
18:36 ashimema     and again tcohen++
18:36 ashimema     tcohen++
18:36 ashimema     we're getting pretty good coverage there!.. that's fantastic
18:35 ashimema     nice work!
18:35 ashimema     it's that second search that's failing as it's not finding the user when comparing password
18:35 pastebot     "tcohen" at 172.16.248.212 pasted "ashimema: so far" (25 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/133
18:35 aruntomar    i have defined directory manager in the koha-conf.xml
18:34 ashimema     to me.. it looks like you're getting a good anonymous bind (assuming you've not got user and password defined in the koha-conf) for an initial auth.. then we're doing a search using that user for the person trying to login to koha (UUser1)..
18:33 aruntomar    so what would u suggest, would be the correct approach to debug and fix this issue.
18:31 ashimema     :)
18:31 tcohen       ashimema: I'm getting closer :-D
18:30 cait         not toooldthen
18:30 cait         ok
18:30 pug          cait:  kohaversion : 3.1601000
18:29 aruntomar    i can see in the ldap logs, all the details getting logged about the bind dn and it's authentication/query.
18:29 cait         which koha version?
18:28 aruntomar    389ds
18:28 aruntomar    it does use bind
18:28 ashimema     what ldap server are you using?
18:27 ashimema     i see.. so your ldap server doesn't use bind..
18:27 aruntomar    LDAP bind failed as kohauser UUser1: LDAP error #32: LDAP_NO_SUCH_OBJECT
18:26 aruntomar    if i use auth_by_bind, then it fails
18:25 aruntomar    that's the current setting
18:24 aruntomar    <auth_by_bind>0</auth_by_bind>
18:24 aruntomar    yes, i had to disable that as it was not working
18:23 aruntomar    k, u mean the auth_by_bind in the koha_conf.xml
18:22 ashimema     that's rare these days?
18:22 ashimema     so you're 'not' doing auth_by_bind
18:22 ashimema     aruntomar..
18:21 ashimema     :)
18:21 ashimema     hehe
18:21 wahanui      comments are turned on
18:21 tcohen       comments
18:21 tcohen       i'm mixing
18:21 ashimema     :)
18:21 ashimema     nothing mate
18:21 tcohen       ah
18:20 tcohen       ashimema: whatsthat?
18:20 aruntomar    after i commented that code, we are able to login, and koha replicates all the fields in the patrons etc
18:20 ashimema     and then ldap caught my eye.
18:20 ashimema     sorta.. about to disappear again actually.. was mostly checking if tcohen had left me any messages ;)
18:19 aruntomar    http://paste.koha-community.org/132
18:19 ashimema     hi oleonard..
18:19 oleonard     ashimema++ # working late?
18:18 ashimema     hi tcohen
18:18 tcohen       hiii
18:18 ashimema     ok.. will wiat for your paste
18:18 ashimema     you've got a one to one mapping between ldap/active directory fields and koha borrower fields
18:17 aruntomar    i'll paste the code that's causing the issue in pastebin
18:17 ashimema     so.. looking at that paste..
18:16 aruntomar    it's authenticating correctly
18:16 aruntomar    it's auth by bind
18:14 ashimema     that sort of thing.
18:14 wahanui      i heard anonymous bind was very common
18:14 ashimema     anonymous bind..
18:14 ashimema     auth by bind..
18:14 ashimema     ok pug.. we need a few more details about how your ldap config in koha looks..
18:13 cait         that there is a known problem with the mappings if you have patron attributes defined - I think
18:13 cait         can you repaste?
18:13 pug          what do you mean exactly by that cait?
18:12 cait         i haven't seen the paste, but patron attributes can cause problems
18:12 ashimema     Looks like Net::LDAP is outputting it.. I can't see mention of it in our code..
18:12 cait         are you using patron attributes?
18:12 pug          oh ok - any idea whos?
18:12 ashimema     That looks to me like an error further up the stack..
18:11 cait         sorry, ldap is not my area of expertise
18:08 pug          our password comparison (in Auth_with_ldap.pm ) is failing us
18:05 pug          is there anyone whos a pro on that?
18:05 pug          We are really stuck at the ldap integration issue pasted above by aruntomar
18:04 cait         hi pug
18:04 pug          hi cait
17:00 aruntomar    hi, we are facing an issue with koha+ldap integration. could somebody suggest a solution. issue is pasted on the link  http://paste.koha-community.org/131
16:09 paul_p       week-end start now for me !!!
16:05 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Master_D7 build #79: STILL UNSTABLE in 47 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D7/79/
15:59 JasonBurds   Does anyone here use EZProxy and possibly limit access to certain database based upon patron category?
15:47 rhcl         because of her failed staaff login attempts
15:46 rhcl         yea, we're all working on that. My surprise was that she was able to login to the OPAC without entering a password
15:46 cait         she will need... i think catalogue
15:46 cait         rhcl: does she have the correct permissions to access staff?
15:45 rhcl         Obviously it had read the valid password attempt from the staff client login attempt
15:45 rhcl         entering a passowrd.
15:45 rhcl         She has a valid user account, so we had her login to the opac, and it did an immediate login there without her
15:44 jcamins      Heh.
15:44 rhcl         patience  patience, I'm typing as can as I fast
15:43 jcamins      rhcl: and it works on other computers?
15:43 rhcl         but see made several login attempts using her library card and password, (again, all failed)
15:42 rhcl         She's the new TS supervisor, and we tried to get her logged onto the staff client, but failed because her profile wasn't right
15:42 rhcl         using firefox on linux mint.
15:42 rhcl         this is interesting...brand new user, brand new profile, first login to koha (nothing in browser cache)
15:11 pug          HI - is there anybody out there?
15:05 tcohen       i said "really happy to know we'll have you here people"
15:05 wahanui      That'll be $1 for the awesome jar, tcohen
15:05 tcohen       awesome!
15:05 paul_p       (staying until 15th)
15:05 tcohen       yes!!!!!
15:05 paul_p       tcohen = have you seen my previous message saying flight was booked ? ;-)
15:02 ashimema     Just gonna clean up the branch a bit.. currenlty it's a mess of 'why the bleep doesn't this work' commits ;)
15:02 ashimema     fancy a swap then.. would love to have your opinion on my shib tests too now that they're well on their way to completion.. would be nice to know if they cover too much/too little.. are actually useful and whether they're implemented ok.. or in a nasty amateurish way ;)  I'm good with constructive criticism.
15:00 ashimema     indeed
15:00 tcohen       unit_tests++
14:57 ashimema     scary
14:57 ashimema     and we've been using te code in production for like a year!
14:56 ashimema     even found a bug in the module that no-one doing sign-off had spotted!
14:56 ashimema     I've been hacking away at my shib ones for allot of today.. learned allot
14:56 ashimema     more than happy to take a look though.
14:56 ashimema     :)
14:56 ashimema     the family are stealing me off in about an hour
14:55 tcohen       to take a look at my LDAP unit tests
14:55 tcohen       i'd like to know how long will you be around
14:55 tcohen       no problem
14:55 ashimema     sorry.. was on the phone
14:55 ashimema     I am now tcohen.
14:46 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12398 critical, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Pushed to Master , CAS authentication not working
14:46 jenkins_koha * Julian Maurice: Bug 12398: Fix CAS authentication validation
14:46 jenkins_koha * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Bug 12398: (followup) tidy unit tests
14:46 jenkins_koha * Julian Maurice: Bug 12398: Add test for C4::Auth_with_cas::_url_with_get_params
14:46 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Master_D7 build #78: UNSTABLE in 55 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D7/78/
14:43 tcohen       ashimema: around?
14:06 tcohen       #koha expect jenkins to fail during the next couple of hours, because of networking issues with the nodes
14:05 ashimema     :)
14:04 tcohen       ashimema: no problem at all
13:48 jenkins_koha * Julian Maurice: Bug 12398: Fix CAS authentication validation
13:48 jenkins_koha * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Bug 12398: (followup) tidy unit tests
13:48 jenkins_koha * Julian Maurice: Bug 12398: Add test for C4::Auth_with_cas::_url_with_get_params
13:48 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Master_U14 build #83: FAILURE in 17 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U14/83/
13:48 jenkins_koha * Julian Maurice: Bug 12398: Fix CAS authentication validation
13:48 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12398 critical, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Pushed to Master , CAS authentication not working
13:48 jenkins_koha * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Bug 12398: (followup) tidy unit tests
13:48 jenkins_koha * Julian Maurice: Bug 12398: Add test for C4::Auth_with_cas::_url_with_get_params
13:48 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12079 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmc, Pushed to Master , CheckReserves() and _Findgroupreserve do not return reserve_id
13:48 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Master_D6 build #64: FAILURE in 26 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D6/64/
13:48 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11947 major, P5 - low, ---, robin, Pushed to Stable , Hold priorities not re-calculated when hold is confirmed on checkin.
13:48 jenkins_koha * Julian Maurice: Bug 12398: Fix CAS authentication validation
13:48 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12071 minor, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, Pushed to Stable , javascript broken for a search with double quotes
13:48 jenkins_koha * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Bug 12398: (followup) tidy unit tests
13:48 jenkins_koha * Julian Maurice: Bug 12398: Add test for C4::Auth_with_cas::_url_with_get_params
13:48 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Master_U12 build #86: FAILURE in 20 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U12/86/
13:48 jenkins_koha * Galen Charlton: Bug 12079: ensure that CheckReserves() includes reserve_id in its response
13:48 jenkins_koha * Robin Sheat: Bug 11947 - renumber reserves when hold is confirmed
13:48 jenkins_koha * Fridolin Somers: Bug 12071: improve generation of Z39.50 search links
13:48 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.14.x_D7 build #15: FAILURE in 22 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.14.x_D7/15/
13:46 oleonard     Joubu: A guideline for when to use encodeURIComponent() or something similar?
13:45 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12637 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , UTF-8 problems when creating a patron list from the patron search results page
13:45 oleonard     Joubu: After looking at Bug 12637 I wonder if we need to add a coding guideline to prevent future problems like it?
13:43 * cait       is trying out every single mail koha can send...
13:42 * ashimema   feels for you
13:42 oleonard     Trying to attach a signed-off patch dealing with UTF-8 and can't because git-bz has a problem dealing with UTF-8 :P
13:34 ashimema     though I have given up on one fo the tests I wanted to write.. can't get it to play nice.. might bug you at some point for advice tcohen ;)
13:34 ashimema     my shib tests are coming along nicely..
13:34 ashimema     tcohen++ CAS
13:24 cait         but about acctdeteails notice
13:24 cait         not about cas
13:24 * cait       grumps
13:23 tcohen       CAS in
13:21 huginn       New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 12398: Fix CAS authentication validation <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=8c5671087da1ce3daf9ecf55589761f185e34453> / Bug 12398: (followup) tidy unit tests <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=cf49a75209b1dc5213fb1efbacd953cac72cfbb7> / Bug 12398: Add test for C4::Auth_with_cas::_url_with_get_params <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff
13:20 tcohen       have we just updated jenkins? :-D
13:20 tcohen       really happy to know we'll have you here people
13:20 * tcohen     is reading the logs
13:19 tcohen       :-D
13:17 tcohen       i missed that, unfortunately
13:17 cait         tcohen: we were talking about our trips to argentina a bit earlier
13:16 cait         oh ouch
13:15 tcohen       hi again, massive power outage
13:06 cait         soudns like a fun trip
13:05 ashimema     everyone around me on my way back from peru got stung for it..
13:05 nengard      never flew through there so I did not know that
13:04 ashimema     You can't get out of the airport or anything.... they're just uber strict..
13:04 nengard      and ewww about madrid
13:04 nengard      understood ashimema and thanks
13:04 ashimema     they take you back through customs  in madrid.. and ignore the 'DUTY FREE' stickers on sealed bags.
13:03 ashimema     it's the hand luguage they sting you for..
13:03 ashimema     nah.. they'll be ok in your hold luguage..
13:03 ashimema     indeed they are.. i was trying to be nice ;)
13:03 ashimema     ^
13:03 ashimema     easier to track for you instead of having to pick through our mumblings here.
13:03 nengard      Why? Z targets are part of Koha
13:02 ashimema     nengard, INS_  you might be best having that conversation in private chat between yourselves..
13:02 cait         ashimema: also fromt he suitcase?
13:02 nengard      IRSpy is a great site to find Z targets on
13:02 cait         i didn't plan on bringing spirits
13:02 nengard      INS_ sorry was distracted, you can use Z39.50 to download records if you'd like
13:02 ashimema     else security will steal them.  even if they are in sealed marked duty free bags
13:01 ashimema     don't get any spirits in duty free until your through madrid cait..
13:01 cait         i think about 24 hours, but really have to check the documents
13:01 cait         and shorter time overall
13:00 cait         hm not so long times for me i think
13:00 paul_p       and correct connections, except when flying back: 6H waiting at San Paulo :(
12:59 cait         i am doing züich - madrid - buenos aires - cordoba
12:59 cait         i think you might have the better route
12:59 paul_p       (joubu flying Manchester > CDG > San Paulo > COR)
12:58 paul_p       flying MRS > CDG > San Paulo > COR
12:58 cait         flying with aerolinea argentina... hoping it works out
12:58 paul_p       what will probably be *very* hard will be the 3 hours waiting at San Paolo, then the 3 hours flight in a A320
12:58 * ashimema   would like to move to github pull requests model.. but we have bz and that works well enough for us at the moment
12:58 cait         and they already changed once... but landing an hour earlier now than planned
12:58 cait         s
12:58 cait         added my dates, have to look up the time
12:57 ashimema     nah.. the patch attached to bz is perfect :)
12:57 paul_p       note that 1:10 AM for arrival may be not that evil = we will be very very tired, and despite our body thinking its 7AM, we will fall asleep easily.
12:56 paul_p       that's my feeling too...
12:56 cait         paul_p: your arrival and departure times are evil
12:56 gerundio     should I repeat the process on koha's own git repository?
12:56 gerundio     it seems like I didn't follow all the rules :|
12:55 ashimema     ooh.. you did a pull request on github for that bug too gerundio.. nice.. sure tcohen will like that.. though I have no idea who runs the Koha-Community account
12:55 paul_p       staying 2 more nights at coralt will be way cheaper than flying back immediately. Poor us, we will have to visit the area for 2 days :D :D
12:55 cait         :)
12:55 cait         vacation for me this year
12:54 paul_p       cait yes, and it's also because the monday flight was awfully expensive (with AF), and no flight on tuesday
12:53 ashimema     think it's an either or this time around for me :)
12:53 ashimema     haha.. thanks paul_p, nah, we're just crazy busy at the moment so I've not even asked.  Hoping that way when hackfest comes around I can get away with that one instead ;)
12:53 cait         so you are planning on vacation too?
12:53 cait         mine is 4-17th i think
12:52 paul_p       (fixed)
12:52 paul_p       yes, that's my plan. 35h flight x2 for 1 night in Cordoba :D :D
12:51 cait         you are staying only 1 night :)
12:51 cait         i think you needto fix your dates on the wiki
12:51 cait         yes
12:51 paul_p       cait coralt too ?
12:51 paul_p       cait good news !
12:51 huginn       INS_: downloading the Perl source
12:51 INS_         @oleonard why do you said that
12:50 cait         but didn't get to add my info to the wiki yet
12:50 cait         paul_p: yep all booked
12:50 paul_p       ashimema :((( (can I do something to convince your boss ? ;-) )
12:50 ashimema     gerundio++
12:50 gerundio     hope that it complies with the standards
12:50 paul_p       cait = do you come ?
12:50 cait         ashimema: i wished you were going too :(
12:50 gerundio     I just submitted the test plan for the bug
12:50 cait         congrats paul_p :)
12:50 ashimema     :( paul made me sad.. wish i was going to kohacon this year.
12:49 huginn       04Bug 12669: blocker, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , "Template process failed: undef error - Invalid local time for date in time zone"
12:49 gerundio     http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12669#c6
12:49 oleonard     That's not really a Koha question INS_
12:49 paul_p       flights booked for Cordoba !
12:48 INS_         i need free site where i can get free ebooks
12:48 INS_         ok how to download marc record download
12:47 nengard      Hi all, INS_ I'm here if you have a question of me
12:46 INS_         ok
12:46 oleonard     INS_: That is not an appropriate request to make of nengard
12:45 INS_         ok
12:45 oleonard     INS_: I suggest you follow the link to the Koha manual and start there
12:45 INS_         nengard pls send me your phone number
12:44 INS_         can i add create a link to the book i add on catalog
12:42 INS_         can i add create a link to the book i add on catalog
12:39 wahanui      manual is at http://www.koha-community.org/documentation
12:39 oleonard     manual?
12:38 INS_         how to add books to koha catalog
12:38 oleonard     Can you be more specific INS_? What are you trying to do?
12:37 INS_         can i add pdf file on koha
12:37 oleonard     Hi #koha
12:36 INS_         can i add pdf file on koha
12:35 gerundio     long time ago
12:35 gerundio     just one
12:35 INS_         ok
12:35 tcohen       gerundio: have you written patches before?
12:35 INS_         Hi wada
12:34 wada         hi INS
12:34 gerundio     I had to leave in a hurry earlier, I'm back and will now finish writing the test plan
12:33 gerundio     tcohen, I wrote the patch
12:31 tcohen       gerundio: did you manage to write your patch?
12:30 tcohen       hi cait
12:28 cait         quite annoying
12:28 cait         testing serial alert emails ... and can't get them working
12:28 cait         hmhmhm
12:24 cait         good morning tcohen :)
12:23 tcohen       morning
11:59 mtompset     Have a great day, #koha.
11:59 mtompset     This be crazy!
11:52 mtompset     Greetings, ashimema cait.
11:52 mtompset     Wow, FLOOOD!
11:52 mtompset     Greetings, #koha.
11:42 ashimema     when irc is like this it makes conversations impossible to follow
11:42 ashimema     i really aught to work out how to turn off the joined notifications..
11:41 ashimema     glad it's not just me..
11:41 cait         seems flaky
11:35 ashimema     is it just me or is irc really flaky today.
11:25 cait         khall++
10:04 cait         back
09:55 ashimema     even better.. Test::Carp gurus
09:55 ashimema     any testing gurus here..
09:42 * ashimema   goes digging..
09:42 ashimema     is Test::Carp in our dependencies?
09:37 ashimema     in fact.. i'm now being picky about tests when I QA (and I think cait is too)
09:37 ashimema     for tcohen to accept.. you'll likely need the tests ;)
09:30 rangi        to test the handling of dates without times
09:30 rangi        bonus points if you send a follow up that adds a test to t/DateUtils.t
09:15 gerundio     I'm on it rangi, it's been too long since I've submitted my last patch to Koha :|
09:15 rangi        but other than that, the code itself looks ok
09:14 rangi        it is wahanui
09:14 wahanui      hmmm... blah blah is important
09:14 rangi        blah blah
09:14 rangi        Test:
09:14 rangi        Bug: 12669 Fixing date handling when using dates without time
09:13 rangi        it should look something like
09:13 gerundio     I'll add a new comment with the test plan
09:13 rangi        except its missing a good commit message, with a test plan
09:13 rangi        mostly
09:12 gerundio     is my patch valid there?
09:12 gerundio     I just read Chris' comment
09:11 huginn       04Bug 12669: blocker, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , "Template process failed: undef error - Invalid local time for date in time zone"
09:11 gerundio     http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12669#c5
09:11 gerundio     thanks for the help cait
09:11 gerundio     done
09:08 cait         so gerundio: do a git commit --amend and make sure you have Bug xxxx at the beginning of the first line
09:08 rangi        newer git does that when --amend a pushed commit
09:08 ashimema     cool
09:08 ashimema     wow.. I didn't know it did that..
09:08 cait         ah
09:08 rangi        thats just git warning you that its already upstream
09:07 rangi        to add it
09:07 rangi        it will do a commit --amend
09:07 rangi        if you dont have the bug number in your commit
09:07 ashimema     not onto a branch somewhere
09:07 ashimema     attach should just throw it at bugzilla..
09:06 ashimema     never seen that one before.
09:06 gerundio     "git bz attach 12669 HEAD"
09:05 cait         what command did you run?
09:05 gerundio     "Rewrite the commit add the bug URL anyways? [yn]"
09:04 gerundio     now I'm getting "Commit is already in remote branch(es): origin/bug_12669"
09:04 gerundio     yes
09:04 cait         gerundio: did you check out the fishsoup branch of git bz?
09:03 gerundio     there's no mention to "host"
09:03 gerundio     I've checked on my .gitconfig file and they are properly set
09:02 gerundio     cait, I've ran all the git config instructions
09:01 cait         you wanted to sign off on all my patches :P
09:00 ashimema     now where was I before Skype so rudely interrupted me
09:00 ashimema     town crier cait.. I like it.
08:59 cait         ashimema: all is well
08:59 ashimema     did I miss anything?
08:59 cait         the wiki page shoudl have an example
08:59 cait         and check that you set the parameters
08:59 rangi        that just means you havent defined the host
08:59 cait         go back to the documentation
08:59 ashimema     bck
08:59 rangi        nope
08:59 cait         nope
08:59 gerundio     is that what your referring to cait?
08:58 gerundio     I get the "NameError: global name 'host' is not defined" error message on git bz attach
08:58 cait         so if you do it often... it gets pretty annoying
08:58 cait         but it's always a doh and addtional steps moment
08:58 cait         rangi: it works on a git bz edit just fine, just the combination of git bz attach -e is broken
08:57 rangi        python is a bit ropey with its utf8 handling, but it can be made to work
08:57 cait         ashimema: we need to talk someone with python knowledge into fixing this...
08:57 rangi        that should be fixable
08:57 ashimema     brb.. fecking skype killed my monitors again..
08:57 ashimema     minor pet hate of cait and I's
08:56 ashimema     unless you have utf8 chars in your name.. then git bz is next to useless ;)
08:55 rangi        you can do it manually as well, but git-bz is easier if you plan to do more than a few
08:54 rangi        its the easiest way
08:54 rangi        yep
08:52 gerundio     is git bz still the way to go to attach bug patches to Koha's bugzilla?
08:51 gerundio     hi, good morning
08:51 ashimema     we're getting there now with the tests at last.
08:51 ashimema     anywho..
08:51 ashimema     but tcohen is right.. it would be much nicer done OO in the first place
08:50 cait         ok
08:50 ashimema     i'm making it a bit less nasty with a followup as part of the tests..
08:50 ashimema     it works perfectly.. but the code is 'nasty'
08:50 cait         oh
08:50 ashimema     writing tests for this shib patch has enlightened me as to how badly it's written.. :s
08:49 cait         huh?
08:49 * ashimema   is happy and deflated at the same time!
08:01 jajm         cait, of course it's ok ;) thanks for doing it
07:57 cait         .. and then i did it
07:55 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12398 critical, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Passed QA , CAS authentication not working
07:55 cait         jajm: just wante dto ask if it's ok to squash your last 2 patches on bug 12398
07:55 cait         ah
07:54 * cait       did it
07:47 jajm         hi cait
07:47 cait         jajm: around?
07:47 cait         adding the file and then movng it seems a bit complicated
07:47 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12398 critical, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Signed Off , CAS authentication not working
07:47 cait         ashimema: do you think sqashing the last 2 on bug 12398 would be ok?
07:44 ashimema     lol
07:43 cait         hm his comment reminded me i forgot to pqa on the cas patch earlier
07:42 dcook        laterz have a good friday/weekend
07:41 dcook        Yeah, I think it's time for supper and webcomics
07:41 dcook        Says the two people who started working on Koha at 6am :p
07:39 cait         or to that concert, but go! :)
07:39 cait         heh
07:39 cait         go home.
07:39 dcook        And...the proprietary library system for my local public library is broken
07:38 ashimema     i mean that in the nicest possible way.
07:38 ashimema     go home dude
07:37 dcook        Hmm, looks like my books are about to become overdue at the library...
07:34 dcook        Nope, nope, nope. Way too time consuming after all...
07:33 * dcook      says that and then looks at doing some work for another client
07:32 dcook        Everything would suck me in and I do want to leave soon
07:32 dcook        Who am I kidding. I'm not doing any work anymore anyway.
07:31 dcook        But...I had forgotten to charge my phone...so it's just starting now...
07:31 cait         ... as long as you finally leave work :)
07:31 dcook        :D
07:31 dcook        Actually, a friend is going to be performing at a local music thing, so I think I'm going to that
07:31 dcook        Hmm, probably an idea
07:29 cait         go home! :)
07:25 dcook        wb cait :)
07:23 cait         back
07:19 * dcook      wonders if the kids still say "Huzzah!"
07:19 dcook        Sweet. Going to a local music show tonight. Huzzah!
06:59 dcook        Hmm, looks like I should've looked more at the logs from the last dev meeting..
06:58 dcook        salut, alex_a
06:56 alex_a       bonjour
06:55 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12690 minor, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Needs Signoff , opacuserjs gets loaded twice in self checkout
06:55 dcook        For anyone wanting the world's easiest sign off: bug 12690
06:52 * dcook      assumes you must have to access it manually..
06:50 dcook        Also where on earth is the SCO help...
06:49 dcook        For the opac
06:49 dcook        Are we removing "prog" in 3.18?
06:49 dcook        Quick question...
06:41 cait         bbiab
06:38 dcook        Yet...
06:38 dcook        I'm making one line code changes...so it seems silly to put them in different patches
06:36 dcook        Hmm
06:34 * dcook      is certainly long winded
06:34 dcook        :p
06:34 ashimema     ;)
06:34 * ashimema   looks a bit windy
06:34 ashimema     i read that dcook.. and thought 'how can a person look windy'
06:32 dcook        Looks a bit windy out
06:32 huginn       dcook: The current temperature in Matraville, Sydney, New South Wales is 15.4°C (4:30 PM EST on August 01, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 25%. Dew Point: -4.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Rising).
06:32 dcook        @wunder sydney, australia
06:32 cait         hmm
06:32 huginn       dcook: The current temperature in Matraville, Sydney, New South Wales is 15.4°C (4:30 PM EST on August 01, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 25%. Dew Point: -4.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Rising).
06:32 dcook        @wunder syd
06:31 huginn       cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 16.5°C (8:30 AM CEST on August 01, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 95%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
06:31 cait         @wunder Konstanz
06:27 * dcook      hopes it's just his database being funny
06:27 dcook        Hmm...looks like there might be some issues saving system preferences in master...
06:14 dcook        As eythian has said, book depository is slow enough that you forget about your order and then it's an unexpected gift to yourself in the future ;)
06:13 dcook        Haven't even gotten an email to say it's been shipped though yet :(
06:13 dcook        In this case, I ordered the last volume off Book Depository while I was still home sick
06:13 dcook        Mmm, that would be hard
06:12 cait         i know hwen i used to always start trilogies by accident where the last book wasn't even published yet
06:12 cait         ah i hate when that happens
06:11 huginn       dcook: The operation succeeded.
06:11 dcook        @later tell cjh more so just dark fantasy
06:11 huginn       dcook: The operation succeeded.
06:11 dcook        @later tell cjh locke & key actually turned out to be less "horror" than I thought. The first volume is much more "horror" than the rest.
06:11 dcook        It was unwise to start reading a series where I didn't have the concluding volume
06:10 * dcook      is also waiting for the last comic in a series...
06:10 cait         that makes it harder
06:10 dcook        Well, not all of them. Only 3 I hadn't seen before...
06:10 * dcook      is still technically sick but has read all the things and watched all the Miyazaki movies
06:10 cait         ah
06:10 dcook        Well, I did a lot of reading when I was sick last weekend
06:10 dcook        I figure there are so many logs that we'd never be able to track it down
06:10 cait         couch + book?
06:10 * dcook      is going to enjoy his Friday night...just no idea how yet
06:09 cait         can we delete that now out of th elogs? :)
06:09 cait         lol
06:09 dcook        True true
06:09 cait         that's why you should stop working at some point and just go home i guess...
06:09 dcook        Happy to help :)
06:09 dcook        But yeah, I think it needs to be in the future
06:09 cait         no you are right :)
06:09 dcook        I think I misread you
06:09 dcook        Oh wait, drr
06:09 cait         thx :)
06:09 cait         argh.
06:09 dcook        Wouldn't you need the due date to be tomorrow for that to work
06:09 dcook        O_o
06:08 cait         dues workd
06:08 cait         and got... nothing
06:08 cait         i checked out something due yesterday, set predue ot 1 day before for the patron and ran it
06:08 cait         but yes that's it
06:08 cait         i guess so
06:06 dcook        Right...can't remember which date it uses for that...probably items.onloan?
06:06 dcook        Before it's due
06:06 dcook        Not overdue
06:06 dcook        ERr
06:06 dcook        Then the number of days overdue as specified in the borrower messaging preference
06:05 dcook        Isn't it advance_notices.pl
06:05 cait         it drove me crazy yesterday trying to produce one
06:05 cait         if you get...
06:05 cait         hm would one of you be able to check if they get a predue message outof koha?
06:04 dcook        Maybe because it only works in IE, Firefox, and Safari
06:04 dcook        Huh...never knew there was an "onunload" event...
06:03 dcook        Not that fixing this bug has anything to do with what I should be doing...
06:02 * dcook      double-checks master
06:02 ashimema     :)
06:02 dcook        opac-bottom.inc
06:02 dcook        Aha...
06:00 dcook        ashimema: That's awesome :)
06:00 * dcook      pokes some more
06:00 ashimema     keeps things exciting
05:59 dcook        Hmm, getting OpacUserJS twice in the SCO but not sure why...
05:59 cait         :)
05:59 ashimema     one day it'll be academics, the next specials or publics.
05:59 ashimema     It's nice.. we have so much variety in the customers we support now..
05:59 wahanui      That'll be $1 for the awesome jar, rangi
05:59 rangi        Awesome
05:59 ashimema     hink that'll be the ones he's talking about.
05:59 ashimema     group of nhs hostpitals :)
05:58 ashimema     we got a pretty big consortium Birmingham way fairly recently..
05:57 rangi        Cool
05:57 dcook        :D
05:57 ashimema     yup.. that'll be some of our customers :)
05:56 rangi        Ahh good idea
05:56 ashimema     Hold 'page down' for a while on the page to load a shit load of the tweets.. then searhc using the browser.
05:56 cait         now you both made me curious.
05:55 ashimema     aha.. I found it..
05:55 rangi        Not easily
05:55 ashimema     can one search an individuals tweets?
05:55 rangi        Now I can't find it
05:55 ashimema     I don't use twitter enough..
05:52 ashimema     not seen the tweet
05:52 ashimema     quit possible.
05:50 rangi        Some of yours ashimema?
05:50 rangi        The other day mick fortune tweeted about more NHS libraries using Koha
05:49 * dcook      apparently answers to "Oh hey" now :p
05:49 dcook        Hmm?
05:49 rangi        Oh hey
05:49 * dcook      goes and tries to break something which shouldn't be broken
05:49 rangi        Hehe
05:49 dcook        Uh oh. I'm spiralling into my ranting about money and international careers.
05:48 dcook        Not that the Aussies don't earn it. Teaching is a tough gig.
05:48 rangi        True
05:48 dcook        American counterparts of Australians...making peanuts
05:47 dcook        Australian teachers make so much money...unless you're teaching under 5s
05:47 dcook        Education is a funny one...
05:47 rangi        :)
05:47 dcook        It can't be that hard...
05:47 * dcook      wonders if he could do his own dentistry...
05:46 dcook        I imagine not. It's just the world I notice the most often ;)
05:46 rangi        Not just libraries
05:46 dcook        Losing the forest for the trees
05:46 dcook        It's actually quite a thing in the library world...
05:45 dcook        rangi: Two centimeters to the left
05:45 ashimema     enough shared here me thinks ;)
05:45 ashimema     way of the world unfortunately..
05:45 dcook        Well, even some regulated ones...
05:45 rangi        Then they say no not that blue
05:45 dcook        I suppose people think that they can do most unregulated professions
05:45 dcook        Mmmm
05:45 ashimema     hi cait
05:45 rangi        That's what people say
05:45 * cait       waves
05:44 dcook        ?
05:44 dcook        rangi: Which shouldn't
05:44 * dcook      wishes that he had a designer... and a minion
05:44 rangi        It shouldn't cost that much
05:44 ashimema     true, true
05:44 ashimema     :)
05:44 dcook        hehe
05:44 rangi        Everyone is all "I could do that"
05:43 dcook        Design?
05:43 ashimema     yeah.. our contracts are alo super flexible.. part of the open source philosphy
05:43 rangi        It's like design
05:43 dcook        Mmm, yeah, that would be killer
05:43 ashimema     touch wood we've only had a very small number of those.
05:43 dcook        One or two closures I think but that's it
05:43 dcook        In the 2.5 years I've been here, I don't know if we've ever lost a client
05:43 ashimema     to be fair.. our customer retention is great.. but it always worries me when we get small clients that in effect cost us a fair chunk of money in the first year (due to the migration being hard, as often the tiny customers are the hardest migrations).. then decideding after a year that they can't afford/don't need support.
05:43 dcook        I seem to recall our contracts being super flexible
05:42 * dcook      shudders
05:41 ashimema     yeah.. it works better for the big boys who have evil contracts that people can't get out of..
05:41 dcook        It's probably a fairly accurate philosophy
05:41 dcook        Mmm, I seem to recall you mentioning that at Kohacon
05:40 ashimema     Yeah.. it sucks as the data migrations man.. your always undervalued here as the general rule is that the big discounts are on the migration stage..  the philosophy is that it's easier to keep a customer (and have that recurring income from support and maintanence) than it is to win them in the first place.
05:40 * dcook      is just rambling
05:40 dcook        But might be a bit more accurate
05:40 dcook        Which doesn't really help overall
05:40 dcook        I suppose unless you quote per type of data...
05:39 dcook        Mmm, that's true
05:39 cait         it's hard to estimate correctly how much time it will take
05:39 dcook        That sucks, btw
05:39 dcook        ashimema: So true. Good data is the best.
05:38 ashimema     it's quite the opposite in the UK.. migration is one of the bits vendors heavily discount to win a customer..
05:38 dcook        I guess I didn't mention which vendor and which library though :p
05:38 dcook        Hmm, so much for commercial in confidence
05:38 * dcook      remembers a vendor wanted to charge his library $2000 for a data migration which was very simple
05:38 ashimema     I've seen some horrifying data.. and have also learnt the hard way how muhc it bites you down the line if you don't spend the effort in the first place getting it right
05:38 dcook        Which makes the cost of a difficult migration seem less warranted :/
05:37 dcook        I imagine it's because some vendors arbitrarily charge way more than they need to for easy migrations
05:37 ashimema     Why are migrations always undervalued.. customers never seem to understand how important it is to get a migration right.. and how hard that often is.
05:37 * dcook      has seen some terrifying data
05:37 dcook        Actually, add a few more "very" on there
05:36 dcook        Mmm very very true
05:36 rangi        But numbers in isolation of the rest  of the data can be quite misleading
05:36 ashimema     Indeed.
05:36 * dcook      thinks this is one reason why North Americans are so badly underpaid a lot of the time
05:35 dcook        Unless it's about how much more you have than someone else :p
05:35 rangi        Yep rates are fine
05:35 dcook        In North America, if money is involved, we rarely ever talk about it
05:35 dcook        I don't know about back home
05:35 dcook        Prosentient
05:35 dcook        Err not Aussies
05:35 dcook        We being Aussies
05:35 dcook        agreed. Well answered indeed :).
05:35 dcook        I think we publish most of our standard rates, and do more flexible rates on a case by case basis if there is more work involved for one dataset
05:35 ashimema     nicely answered though chris
05:35 rangi        I dunno if usians do that, but we do on our quotes
05:34 dcook        As for commercial in confidence, no idea there
05:33 dcook        Yes, I believe you're correct
05:33 dcook        My bad. I thought you meant the first
05:32 rangi        Yep
05:32 dcook        You mean in the second one
05:32 dcook        Ahhhh
05:32 dcook        I might've missed something
05:32 rangi        Yeah
05:32 dcook        I don't think so
05:31 dcook        O_o
05:31 rangi        dcook: was the mail asking some one to share the quotes for migration they received
05:30 dcook        I suppose they could just make more Toy Story forever
05:30 * dcook      wonders what'll happen when they run out of character names
05:29 dcook        :D
05:29 rangi        :)
05:29 rangi        Seems like an ok plan to me
05:29 ashimema     :)
05:29 dcook        Stop supporting Squeeze when Jessie comes out?
05:28 rangi        At least for the next year or so
05:28 dcook        That's probably the only solution
05:28 ashimema     I'll take my subtests out me thinks
05:28 rangi        I'm not sure of a good solution
05:27 ashimema     :(
05:27 dcook        bleargh
05:27 rangi        Unfortunately yeah
05:27 dcook        Which pulls in half of cpan?
05:27 rangi        Unless we put a libtest-more-perl in our repo
05:26 ashimema     thanks
05:26 ashimema     poo
05:25 rangi        For the subtests they will fail on any squeeze install (or precise)
05:24 dcook        Hmm, not sure I'm looking at the right archive
05:24 ashimema     wat up rangi
05:23 * dcook      has switched to non-digest for dev, but still has digest for general..
05:23 dcook        gen I guess
05:23 rangi        General
05:23 dcook        dev or general?
05:23 rangi        Mail on the mailing list
05:23 ashimema     I see.
05:22 dcook        rangi: ?
05:22 rangi        WTAF
05:22 wahanui      i think that one is down more often than up
05:22 dcook        Or that one
05:22 huginn       04Bug 12689: blocker, P3, ---, tomascohen, NEW , Search.t fails to run on Squeeze
05:22 dcook        http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12689
05:21 huginn       04Bug 12443: normal, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Pushed to Master , Initial re-factoring of buildQuery
05:21 dcook        Read http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12443#c15 and down
05:21 ashimema     cheers
05:20 dcook        You'll want to ask eythian or tcohen about that one
05:20 ashimema     I've been using subtests in these tests
05:20 ashimema     really.. pants.
05:20 dcook        Still not sure if we're able to use subtests or not because of module version issues...
05:20 ashimema     took me ages to work out how to mock the koha config
05:20 dcook        Yeah, it takes a little while to get it sorted
05:19 ashimema     finally gt my head around testing last night.
05:19 dcook        :)
05:19 ashimema     currently writing tests for the shibboleth module
05:19 ashimema     got allot of work flaoting around my head maybe.
05:19 ashimema     not really sure..
05:15 dcook        Why the early wake ups?
05:14 * dcook      was waking up at 6 over the weekend due to coughing fits but that was about it
05:14 dcook        Jeez..
05:14 dcook        You've already been up for an hour?
05:14 dcook        Yikes...6am?
05:14 ashimema     wish I could sleep better at the moment.. waking up at 5am very day is starting to drag
05:14 ashimema     but good
05:14 ashimema     too early again..
05:14 ashimema     I'm good..
05:13 dcook        how are you?
05:13 * dcook      is intrigued
05:12 ashimema     oh.. that's an bot command I havent seen before
05:11 ashimema     how are you this fine day dcook
05:09 dcook        hola ashimema
05:09 ashimema     morning
04:18 dcook        Hmm, I suppose that was a bit vague..
04:18 huginn       dcook: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10944 minor, P5 - low, ---, robin, Pushed to Master , Mixed content warnings in results and detail with Amazon images on https
04:18 huginn       dcook: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10352 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Cataloguing log search mixing itemnumber/bibnumber
04:18 dcook        @query number mix
03:05 * dcook      sings a little song about the joy of antibiotics
03:05 dcook        Mmm, pill capsules are the best...
02:59 dcook        Not that I'm counting...
02:59 dcook        Well, maybe only one or two out of order
02:58 dcook        Well, maybe not chaos. But slightly not alphabetically ordered :p
02:58 dcook        Sure enough, it's chaos!
02:58 dcook        Was just looking at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/IRC_Regulars and wondering if anyone has tampered with the alphabetical ordering
02:37 pianohacker  bye alll
02:07 dcook        later rangi
02:07 pianohacker  oy :/ good luck rangi, see ya
02:07 rangi        cyas later
02:06 rangi        speaking of running, i have to get to my kids school sans car
02:06 pianohacker  amen. unless it's super clean, decoding the control flow and data structures involved is terrible
02:06 dcook        "
02:06 dcook        Love this: "<dc-schema>dc</dc-schema>
02:05 rangi        when it gets to debugging someone elses C .. i run the other direction
02:05 pianohacker  excellent decision
02:05 rangi        which is where i gave up, :)
02:05 rangi        i tracked it back that far
02:05 rangi        so it was actually the C
02:05 rangi        well it was an XS library
02:04 pianohacker  oh cool a segfault in a perl extension. Did gdb even try to unravel that?
02:04 rangi        which i gave up on, cos steve tonnesen had got a web based one going by then
02:03 rangi        hence the rewrite to curses::ui
02:03 dcook        eep
02:03 rangi        plus under load, you could make the c libraries that CDK was built on seg fault
02:03 rangi        that a browser based one was feasible
02:02 rangi        and basically webbrowsers got fast enough
02:02 rangi        it was only ever circ that was cli based
02:02 pianohacker  what exactly was the catalyst behind moving to the web?
02:01 rangi        thats one using perltk and one using curses::ui
02:01 rangi        the original one used CDK
02:01 rangi        ahh that was the rewrite
02:01 dcook        Yeah, I love those
02:01 pianohacker  there's some pics of the early curses circ screen
02:01 * dcook      may be procrastinating working on DSpace input forms...
02:00 dcook        A Koha archive would be cool
02:00 rangi        wish i had kept some
01:59 rangi        i dont think i have any really early ones
01:59 pianohacker  like pre-2.0
01:59 pianohacker  oh, cool, it has pictures of the old-school Koha
01:58 dcook        indeed
01:58 rangi        its reasonably accurate
01:57 rangi        apart from the lines between the developers
01:57 rangi        when we were about to move to git
01:57 rangi        i did that in 2007
01:57 rangi        http://photos.bigballofwax.co.nz/gallery3/index.php/kohaphotos/Git_usage
01:57 rangi        heh
01:56 pianohacker  could have been like 10 lines of perl and some crazy regexes, but I did weird stuff for fun when I was a kid
01:56 dcook        neato, pianohacker
01:54 pianohacker  woah, that's right! proto-frbr!
01:54 rangi        remains
01:54 rangi        biblioitems is all that remans
01:54 rangi        it died, when we lost the 3 tiered approach
01:54 dcook        rangi: Ahhh yeah. I remember you showing me that one before.
01:54 pianohacker  dcook: check this out: https://github.com/pianohacker/koha/blob/jcfl-rebase-text-marc/C4/Biblio.pm#L2093
01:53 rangi        http://photos.bigballofwax.co.nz/gallery3/index.php/kohaphotos/koha/acq3
01:53 pianohacker  https://github.com/pianohacker/koha/tree/jcfl-rebase-text-marc
01:53 dcook        :(
01:53 rangi        i gave up writing them when someone killed the one i liked the best
01:53 rangi        there have been many attempts at editors in the past :)
01:52 pianohacker  yup
01:52 dcook        rancor's ancient predecessor?
01:52 dcook        What?
01:52 dcook        Wait...
01:52 dcook        pianohacker: I thought it might be
01:52 pianohacker  horizon's editor was the catalyst for rancor's ancient predecessor tho
01:52 rangi        which is unicorn really
01:52 pianohacker  I saw voyager's for the first time not too long ago, rangi, it is a little terrifying
01:52 wahanui      symphony is one of the first systems to have a connector built for it
01:52 rangi        symphony
01:52 dcook        Alma or is that someone else
01:52 dcook        What do they have now?
01:51 rangi        pity they killed it
01:51 rangi        yeah horizon was ok
01:51 dcook        I could catalogue wicked fast on that
01:51 dcook        I didn't mind Horizon's though
01:51 dcook        Mmm, never did see the cataloguing side of Voyager
01:51 rangi        seriously, try voyager
01:51 rangi        its better than a lot
01:51 dcook        Probably sad
01:51 pianohacker  really? I don't know if that's comforting or sad
01:51 dcook        By a lot, I mean like...maybe one other one
01:50 dcook        Actually, it's pretty similar to a lot of editors I've seen for web-based library systems
01:50 dcook        "fisher-price editor"... interesting
01:50 dcook        It's grown so much since then
01:50 pianohacker  probably from nengard
01:50 dcook        Mind you, my first exposure to Koha was 3.2
01:50 pianohacker  I believe I've heard the current editor called a "fisher-price editor" more than once
01:50 * dcook      wishes he could remember his first impression of the editor
01:49 dcook        Yeah, I think I have a bit of stockholm syndrome
01:49 pianohacker  grimace really hard
01:49 dcook        Well, a cataloguer in an academic library or a public library would maybe grimace, but still be at home :p
01:49 pianohacker  ;)
01:49 pianohacker  So different from showing it to a conventional cataloger how?
01:49 dcook        "What are these numbers and words?"
01:48 dcook        I can't remember their expression exactly...but it was a mix of shock and horror
01:48 * dcook      recalls showing a special librarian the cataloguing editor once
01:47 dcook        I think so?
01:47 rangi        in the editor yeah
01:47 pianohacker  (in the editor at least)
01:47 pianohacker  are there still those odd system preferences that hide most of the codes and tags and whatnot?
01:47 dcook        Same
01:46 rangi        that would make so many of our special libraries happy
01:46 wizzyrea     ^^
01:46 dcook        True that
01:46 rangi        koha still needs a NO I NEVER WANT TO SEE MARC mode too
01:46 dcook        Actually, if I really believed that, I'd just be sending patches and not posting comments.
01:46 dcook        Can't I just rule with an iron fist?
01:46 pianohacker  for better or worse :)
01:46 pianohacker  most of the people who would have really strong opinions about it would be on the list
01:46 dcook        :P
01:46 pianohacker  dcook: I'd say at this point you might want to write up an RFC
01:45 dcook        But that's barely a problem
01:45 dcook        For unknown fields/subfields
01:45 dcook        The only problem I see at the moment is labels and repeatability
01:45 rangi        *nod*
01:45 dcook        Then updates to MARC frameworks become trivial
01:44 dcook        But yeah, I figure if we can have consensus about the saving thing...
01:44 dcook        Oh MARC...
01:44 dcook        I suppose the idea of having a CLI type editor on the screen though would be useful
01:44 pianohacker  yup. MARC is so idiosyncratic that you have to spend a lot of time catering to it
01:44 rangi        so an editor you build kinda has to be too
01:43 rangi        basically the work flows are MARC specific
01:43 rangi        *nod*
01:43 pianohacker  that would be cool though rangi
01:43 pianohacker  you can abstract away the MARC editing parts of Rancor, but there's so little left afterwards that it's not very useful on its own
01:43 rangi        hopefully the 2 can be combined in some way
01:43 rangi        the work with oslo will end up with some rdf editor
01:43 dcook        pianohacker: Oh?
01:42 dcook        The truly nasty part of RDA is that it's basically AACR3...but requires changes to MARC too :S
01:42 pianohacker  dcook: galen and I talked about that at kohacon '13
01:42 dcook        The only downside I can see with rancor at the moment is that it'll be hardcoded for MARC?
01:42 rangi        they keep adding new ones, or least making them live or some madness
01:42 * dcook      might've just been optimistic
01:42 dcook        I thought that they had finished?
01:42 pianohacker  it's like html5 without the pragmatism
01:41 rangi        but yeah rancor will be a great improvement
01:41 rangi        thats cos they are still writing the specs :)
01:41 dcook        RDA trainers don't even understand RDA
01:41 rangi        :)
01:41 pianohacker  "Yes, I know there's weird punctuation in the title. No, I can't just strip it out."
01:41 rangi        and 99.8 dont understand RDA
01:41 pianohacker  god, AACR2
01:40 rangi        yep
01:40 dcook        And 99% don't understand AACR2
01:40 dcook        97% of the world's library workers don't understand MARC
01:40 dcook        Actually, yeah, I agree
01:40 rangi        most libraries in the world are special libraries
01:40 rangi        and the 3% that do, wont let it go
01:40 dcook        Well, actually...
01:40 dcook        ^
01:40 rangi        where 97% of the worlds library workers dont understand MARC in the least
01:40 dcook        But it's really not that different from a field needing some sort of calculated value
01:39 wahanui      i think the leader is http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bdleader.html or http://www.unimarc.info/holdings/1/en/000
01:39 pianohacker  the leader?
01:39 pianohacker  for?
01:39 * dcook      tries to remember how we currently build the value
01:39 dcook        Hmm
01:39 rangi        that we have to spend time even knowing that a leader exists, let alone what it does
01:38 pianohacker  I put that on my "things that would be so wonderful I don't think they could be" scale just below "peace in the middle east"
01:38 dcook        But it would be easier without MARC :p
01:38 dcook        Managing multiple different templates gets cumbersome
01:38 rangi        it would help even more
01:38 rangi        if marc didnt exist
01:38 pianohacker  if MARC were a little less terrible, it would help, but hey
01:38 dcook        Well, not the exact same problem
01:37 dcook        I'm running into this problem with DSpace using DC as well
01:37 dcook        rangi: Yes and no
01:37 rangi        basically the whole problem is MARC
01:37 pianohacker  I did the leader by hand before I added the XML compatibility
01:36 dcook        Mmm
01:36 pianohacker  It has a separate widget system
01:36 dcook        Interesting...how do you build the leader, the 005, and the 008?
01:36 pianohacker  rancor can use the XML metadata made for a few of the field widgets, but not the widgets themselves
01:35 pianohacker  wait not value_builder
01:35 pianohacker  ah yeah those too
01:35 dcook        pianohacker: Do you use the value_builder and authtype_code fields as well?
01:35 dcook        wizzyrea: Yeah, I would never delete fields. The Fast Add framework only has a subset of fields but in theory that should be OK as you'd hopefully never be copy cataloguing with that framework
01:34 dcook        The framework tables also need a bit of a tidy up
01:33 dcook        I thought you were talking about the current editor
01:33 dcook        Ah wait, I get you
01:33 dcook        pianohacker: come again?
01:33 wizzyrea     ever.
01:33 wizzyrea     I don't ever delete fields.
01:33 dcook        wizzyrea: huge difference
01:32 wizzyrea     I forget whether hiding instead of deleting fields makes a difference in the saving bug.
01:32 dcook        We could keep "repeatable" up-to-date...
01:32 dcook        We let people re-write the labels, so it's impossible to keep those up-to-date per se
01:32 pianohacker  no, it's intentional. It's one of the many, many things catalogers hate about the current editor. you can save just about any field in a record; rancor just uses the framework to verify mandatory/non-repeated fields and show descriptions of tags and subfields
01:32 dcook        What is up-to-date?
01:32 dcook        But the whole being up-to-date...
01:32 dcook        Ah, yeah, the saving thing
01:32 dcook        wizzyrea: But is it?
01:32 wizzyrea     and the not saving thing, that's a problem too.
01:31 wizzyrea     is a problem
01:31 dcook        Hence http://xkcd.com/1172/
01:31 wahanui      keeping them up to date is difficult...
01:31 wizzyrea     keeping them up to date
01:31 dcook        I figure it's a bug that some people might use as a feature?
01:31 dcook        Tell me more :)
01:31 dcook        O rly?
01:31 pianohacker  dcook: rancor is solving that last problem (saving unknown fields)
01:31 dcook        Especially when some workflows might count on certain fields NOT being in the framework
01:31 eythian      yeah, that's something that should be fixed.
01:30 dcook        (So if you don't have 336 in your framework, you'll still get 336 to save)
01:30 dcook        But also allow for other fields to be saved when copy cataloguing
01:30 dcook        Rather... how to create an editor template of a chosen set of fields
01:30 wahanui      not even that is, like, cold :)
01:30 dcook        But not even that
01:30 dcook        Mostly... how to keep them up-to-date
01:29 wizzyrea     sorry you'll have to explain that sentiment
01:29 wizzyrea     ?
01:17 dcook        Well, not the frameworks per se. Rather, the concept behind them.
01:16 dcook        MARC frameworks...they're just...argh.
01:16 dcook        Search could be improved, but that's a matter of time and effort.
01:16 dcook        Occasionally, I think MARC frameworks are the bane of my existence
00:40 dcook        I was wondering a bit :p
00:40 ibeardslee   oh bloody hell stupid arm leaning on the mouse
00:39 ibeardslee   2014-07-07 09:24
00:39 ibeardslee   by Jef Vratny
00:39 ibeardslee   25 days ago
00:39 ibeardslee   yeah that'll be him#63
00:39 dcook        hehe
00:38 * ibeardslee is disappointed, hasn't had to throw anything at anyone for a while.  Would be good to have been able to blame someone else.
00:38 dcook        name*
00:38 dcook        Just recognized the naem
00:38 dcook        Nah, it's all good
00:38 ibeardslee   Do you need me to throw something at him?
00:37 dcook        cool :)
00:37 ibeardslee   yeah that'll be him
00:37 dcook        http://search.cpan.org/~grantm/XML-SAX-0.99/SAX.pm
00:37 ibeardslee   It could be the same guy
00:37 dcook        Grant McLean... isn't he a Catalyst fellow?
00:35 dcook        Suppose it depends on the parser you're using
00:35 dcook        laters tcohen
00:35 * dcook      wonders if XML::LibXML can handle XPointer within an XInclude...
00:29 wizzyrea     don't keep the wifey waiting!
00:29 eythian      later
00:29 tcohen       bye!
00:29 tcohen       will read the logs, wife waiting to have dinner
00:29 eythian      so the best^Weasiest solution is to backport the specific fix
00:28 rangi        yep
00:28 eythian      rangi: it's not that, it's that there's a bug in the version in squeeze
00:28 rangi        so yeah, nothing more can be done in terms of getting it into debian
00:28 rangi        (which is the latest version on cpan)
00:26 eythian      I think I tried with the wheezy version, and it looked difficult enough
00:26 rangi        https://packages.qa.debian.org/libd/libdbix-class-perl.html
00:25 rangi        0.08270 is in testing
00:25 rangi        hehe
00:25 eythian      tcohen: not if I can help it! :)
00:24 eythian      basically trying with the new version turned into a whole pile of dependencies that would have meant backporting half of CPAN :)
00:24 tcohen       hey, is there anything i can blame you?
00:24 tcohen       forgot about that
00:24 tcohen       ok ok
00:23 eythian      Updating DBIx itself is troublesome.
00:23 eythian      tcohen: or the patch so I can backport it.
00:23 eythian      tcohen: you were supposed to find me the minimum version with the bug fixed.
00:23 wizzyrea     debian could probably use some.
00:22 rangi        tcohen: thats already in wheezy
00:22 wizzyrea     hey they make pretty awesome jackets.
00:22 eythian      that Catmandu. No jackets or sleeping bags needed.
00:22 tcohen       :-P
00:22 tcohen       eythian: dbix...
00:22 eythian      err yes
00:22 wizzyrea     and courts of food
00:22 wizzyrea     I like food!
00:21 rangi        :)
00:21 rangi        and Catmandu too
00:21 tcohen       eythian++
00:21 eythian      (and want to spend today submitting a bunch of Koha and Katmandu dependencies into Debian.)
00:21 eythian      tcohen: can you? I don't really know anything about subtests etc.
00:20 rangi        im tossing up between that and the $10 fish and chips
00:20 tcohen       eythian: will you do smth about that bug? i can do it, tomorrow
00:20 rangi        heh
00:20 eythian      this was probably the wrong channel for that.
00:19 eythian      rangi, wizzyrea: I might go to the food court. Keen?
00:18 eythian      looks guilty to me!
00:18 pastebot     "tcohen" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "evidence" (6 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/129
00:17 eythian      or see if you can make jenkins use pbuilder
00:16 tcohen       i might ask the sysops guys to dump a new OS image and "do it fine"
00:15 rangi        could well be
00:15 tcohen       i think it was pulled as a dependency when building a non-packaged lib needed for the testing env
00:15 tcohen       the only posibility is that it was me
00:15 rangi        yep
00:15 rangi        the /usr/local/ is a give away that it was cpan :)
00:15 tcohen       you mean the jenkins node?
00:14 rangi        with cpan
00:14 rangi        tcohen: someone must have installed a newer test::more on the squeeze box tho
00:14 rangi        i think its ok to have them in db_dependent, package builds dont run them, and most people don't choose to run the db ones with make test
00:14 eythian      heh
00:14 * tcohen     didn't find a way to add another use of the word use
00:13 tcohen       i just reused what we used to use in jenkins
00:13 tcohen       eythian, thanks for the advise
00:13 eythian      tcohen: note that if you have a pbuilder setup, it's mostly just a matter of doing a --login with a --bindmount to your koha dir, installing koha-perldeps then you can run things in a pristine environment.
00:10 rangi        0.92 is incredibly old, however while squeeze is supported we probably should not have subtests in the main t dir
00:09 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12689 blocker, P3, ---, chris, NEW , Search.t fails to run on Squeeze
00:09 eythian      bug 12689
00:09 rangi        but only 1 not in db_dependent
00:09 tcohen       we have subtests in 5 tests files
00:08 eythian      it fails badly, yes
00:07 tcohen       eythian: does db_dependent/Items.t fail too?
00:06 tcohen       it might have pulled that version
00:06 tcohen       I installed Devel::Cover::Report::Clover using cpan
00:06 eythian      I'll finish writing up my bug then
00:06 tcohen       (apache::bench and so on)
00:06 eythian      it's probably cpan on the command line
00:06 eythian      it's in /usr/local
00:06 tcohen       maybe some of the missing deps pulled that
00:05 eythian      you're cheating there :)
00:05 eythian      yeah
00:05 tcohen       our $VERSION = '1.001003';
00:05 eythian      also, yeah
00:05 tcohen       you are right
00:05 eythian      say?
00:05 eythian      what does perl -MTest::More -e 'print $Test::More::VERSION . "\n"'
00:05 rangi        there ya go
00:05 tcohen       /usr/share/perl/5.10.1/Test/More.pm
00:05 tcohen       /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1/Test/More.pm
00:05 tcohen       hm
00:04 eythian      the latter is probably better in case it's somehow out of package mangement.
00:04 eythian      or locate More.pm
00:04 eythian      dpkg -s More.pm
00:04 tcohen       how can I know that?
00:03 eythian      do you have something else providing More.pm, you may have a higher version stashed somewhere.
00:02 pastebot     "eythian" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "tcohen: running on Debian 6 :)" (40 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/128
00:02 tcohen       our $VERSION = '0.92';
00:02 tcohen       jenkins@koha-jenkins-d6:/usr/share/perl/5.10.1$ grep -i VERSION Test/More.pm | head -1
00:02 eythian      the version of whatever you're using to give you Test/More.pm is more important.
00:01 pastebot     "tcohen" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "eythian: running on Debian 6" (34 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/127
00:00 eythian      what does your jenkins box have that provides Test/More.pm?
00:00 eythian      that's where /usr/share/perl/5.10.1/Test/More.pm comes from