IRC log for #koha, 2014-03-05

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
01:08 pianohacker Jesus christ. I could throw whoever designed the 006/008 fields off a very high bridge and watch them go *splat* with glee
01:08 BobB joined #koha
01:09 dcook pianohacker: I think she's dead
01:09 dcook
01:10 dcook But I feel your pain :)
01:10 pianohacker ... why does the designer of MARC have to be a lovely old lady
01:11 dcook I think it's a paradox
01:15 rangi @wunder nzwn
01:15 huginn` rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 12.0°C (2:00 PM NZDT on March 05, 2014). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
01:15 rangi light rain
01:15 rangi hehe
01:16 eythian well, it can't fall because the wind is keeping it up.
01:19 wizzyrea oh they are funny
01:22 rangi
01:22 rangi speaking of funny
01:24 talljoy joined #koha
01:31 wajasu not funny.
02:00 mayank joined #koha
02:03 mayank I am importing records in koha from excel file.  I have converted data into marc format.  While importing records in koha if I select "Check for embeded item recod data" as Yes then it create mulitple items for book and save bar code.  If I select it to No then no bar code is imported for the book.  I only have one line per iteam.   What should I do to have one iteam and bar code assigned to book? Sample data is available at
02:08 rangi 15:32 < eythian> mayank: you're probably making a new 952 for each item entry, and each 952 will become  its own item.
02:08 rangi 15:32 < eythian> You need to make it so that all the fields for the item go into the same 952.
02:25 dpk joined #koha
02:48 irma joined #koha
03:16 mayank joined #koha
03:18 mayank rangi:  How can I make it that all the fields for the item go into the same 952.  Is the link file need any change ?
03:18 rocio left #koha
03:22 rangi that link doesnt work for me
03:23 eythian mayank: the link is broken. Also, we don't know what tools you're using to create the marc, but there is probably an option in that tool.
03:49 mayank eythian: link is working for me.  I am using Marcedit21
03:52 dbs joined #koha
03:53 gmcharlt joined #koha
03:56 mtj hi #koha
03:57 mtj mayank, link doesnt work for me…
03:57 mtj ahh oops… gone already :(
03:58 bag heya mtj
03:58 mtj yo yo, big B
05:45 dcook Why yes...a thunder storm just as I'm finishing work does seem like a good idea...
05:46 chris_n joined #koha
06:02 cait joined #koha
06:09 cait good morning #koha
06:37 chandoi joined #koha
06:37 chandoi loz
06:41 mayank joined #koha
06:48 mayank eythian: link is working for me.  I am using Marcedit21
07:03 paxed can i have the MARC show in a single list, NOT tabbed, in staff client MARC details and marc edit?
07:09 mtj mayank, link only works for you - no one else… ->
07:09 sophie_m joined #koha
07:09 laurence joined #koha
07:10 mtj hi paxed, yes… just make all MARC fields have the same tab number, for a fwrk
07:11 paxed ah
07:13 mtj >  update marc_subfield_structure set tab = 0 where frameworkcode  = 'XXX';
07:13 mtj everything for XXX fwrk, will show in single list, on tab 0
07:14 mtj hth :)
07:15 cait hm you shouldn't update 952
07:16 mtj ah, yeah - good point cait :)
07:17 mtj > update marc_subfield_structure set tab = 0 where frameworkcode  = 'XXX' and tab <> 9;
07:17 paxed mtj: right, that works. thanks.
07:19 paxed tab <> 9? do you mean tab<>10?
07:21 mtj oops, i mean tab 10 :p
07:21 mtj sorry, was pretty close
07:21 * magnuse waves
07:21 mtj whew, thanks $god for those backups...
07:21 magnuse kia ora mtj!
07:22 mtj kia ora magnuse :)
07:22 mtj paxed ^^
07:23 mtj paxed, i am glad one of us is paying attention
07:34 paxed is there any disadvantage in converting unicode chars to entities in biblioitems.marcxml?
07:38 reiveune joined #koha
07:39 reiveune hello
07:41 mtj paxed, maybe lots of double-encoding problems?
07:42 mtj i think its a no-no
07:46 reiveune joined #koha
07:46 dbs joined #koha
07:46 irma joined #koha
07:46 dpk joined #koha
07:46 talljoy joined #koha
07:46 BobB joined #koha
07:46 aquaman joined #koha
07:46 Callender_ joined #koha
07:46 magnuse joined #koha
07:46 eythian joined #koha
07:46 nlegrand joined #koha
07:46 ashimema joined #koha
07:46 paxed joined #koha
07:46 clrh joined #koha
07:46 bshum joined #koha
07:46 slef joined #koha
07:46 janPasi joined #koha
07:46 liw joined #koha
07:46 jajm joined #koha
07:46 wizzyrea joined #koha
07:46 thd-away` joined #koha
07:46 barton_a1ay joined #koha
07:50 paxed hm. i guess mysql character_set_database should be utf8 instead of latin1 ...
07:55 magnuse yup, the more utf8 the better
07:55 alex_a joined #koha
07:56 alex_a bonjour
07:56 magnuse paxed: you might want to look at the collations for your tables though, it might affect sorting (it's something i have been meaning to look into for a looong time)
07:56 magnuse bonjour alex_a
07:56 paxed magnuse: shouldn't zebra handle that?
08:02 alex_a bonjour magnuse
08:09 Joubu1 joined #koha
08:09 Joubu1 hi
08:20 mayank joined #koha
08:20 magnuse paxed: for bibliographic records, yes. but not for everything else that is stored in and sorted by the db. like patrons
08:20 magnuse hiya Joubu
08:22 cait joined #koha
08:24 cait good morning #koha
08:24 magnuse hiya cait
08:26 cait hiya magnuse
08:50 matts hi #koha !
08:53 cait hi matts :)
09:00 ashimema hi all
09:01 cait hi ashimema :)
09:01 ashimema matts, appologies, I've been pants on getting that regular borrower imports patch up anywhere public... not had a moment to touch it again yet.
09:02 matts okay, no problem :)
09:04 ashimema :)
09:25 nlegrand hey #koha
09:26 cait developers_talking++
09:26 cait hi nlegrand
09:29 pianohacker Woo midnight oil
09:31 ashimema hello pianohacker
09:31 wahanui hello pianohacker are you there?
09:32 nlegrand I try to make my zebra full reindex ( -a -b -r -x -w) outside my koha server (too long, too ressource greedy) and then rsync the zebradb on the koha server. It fails :). Is there a way to do this kind of things or should I always rebuild on the koha server?
09:38 Joubu left #koha
09:38 Joubu joined #koha
09:59 mtj nlegrand, ots probably more trouble that it is worth you :/
09:59 mtj its
10:00 mtj try using ionice/nice to make the process less greedy
10:04 drojf joined #koha
10:11 cait hi drojf :)
10:11 cait hi khall :)
10:11 khall mornin cait!
10:12 drojf hi cait
10:12 drojf hi #koha
10:16 nlegrand mtj: I was afraid of something like that :). Thanks.
10:16 nlegrand Let's plan a shortage ^^
10:26 ashimema anyone been getting: Can't call method "data" on an undefined value at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 1716.
10:26 ashimema in the packages recently..
10:35 magnuse ashimema: not recently. which version?
10:39 * pianohacker is out of midnight oil, bye all
10:43 cait ashimema: i hate that one, can never figure out why it happens
10:51 ashimema latest..
10:51 wahanui it has been said that latest is 3.6.4
10:52 ashimema jut ran an apt upgrade so 3.14.04
10:52 ashimema just run the rebuild with verbose.. seems rebuild is unable to parse records :(
10:52 ashimema wondering whats changed
11:04 cait hm
11:04 cait sometimes the problem seems to be related to framework set
11:04 cait up
11:04 cait koha2marc-linkings
11:04 cait missing biblionumbers...
11:05 ashimema cheers cait
11:05 cait and there is a script that can help find broken records - soemthing with slice in it
11:07 ashimema it's every record..
11:07 ashimema that's part of the problem..
11:07 ashimema and search was working fine only last week.
11:08 ashimema just trackng donw what hcnages our team have made since then.
11:10 ashimema sadly.. the mapping all looks in order to me :(
11:10 cait hm and zebra doesn't tell you more?
11:10 cait there is a double -v option
11:10 cait for even more output
11:11 cait -v -v i think
11:20 ashimema double v give's me no further detail
11:20 ashimema nor tripple ;)
11:31 laurence left #koha
11:35 magnuse ashimema:[…]anch_group_limit= is 3.14.4 from the packages - search seems to be ok there
11:37 * magnuse is scheduled to upgrade customers to 3.14.4 today
12:02 cait ashimema: hmmmm i thoguth there was an option for even more verbose
12:02 cait did you check the help page?
12:02 ashimema I think it may be data related at our end..
12:03 ashimema well.. data/config
12:03 ashimema still investigating
12:04 cait good luck!
12:27 jwagner joined #koha
12:33 drojf joined #koha
12:46 tcohen joined #koha
12:47 tcohen morning!
12:47 wahanui morning is a state of cat
12:57 meliss joined #koha
13:09 oleonard joined #koha
13:10 cait hola tcohen :)
13:10 tcohen hi cait
13:11 oleonard Hi everyone
13:11 cait hi oleonard :)
13:23 magnuse ooh, meeting in 4 hours 36 minutes
13:23 cait thx for the reminder
13:23 cait :)
13:24 magnuse who sends a reminder to the lists?
13:25 * magnuse does not volunteer
13:28 oleonard I'll do it
13:28 magnuse oleonard++
13:33 talljoy left #koha
13:33 talljoy joined #koha
13:52 Dyrcona joined #koha
13:59 oleonard I added an item to the agenda about procedures for LESS compiling and other client-side asset handling. I hope that's agreeable.
14:00 cait :)
14:00 cait which time is right now?
14:01 oleonard ?
14:03 cait colin said the link and text don't match on the list
14:03 cait now i am confused :)
14:03 oleonard Ugh, did I get the time wrong? I thought I pasted it right from the wiki entry
14:07 oleonard[…]g&iso=20140305T19
14:07 oleonard Does that look right now?
14:09 * magnuse fixed the wiki
14:10 magnuse so the meeting is in  hours?
14:10 oleonard Yes :)
14:10 magnuse so the meeting is in *5* hours?
14:10 magnuse lol
14:10 * magnuse is too tired
14:12 edveal joined #koha
14:15 cait 20:00?
14:15 cait oleonard: i am easy to confuse with timezones...
14:20 rhcl @wunder 64507
14:20 rhcl huggin?
14:20 wahanui huggin is probably a bot
14:21 rhcl dead bot apparently
14:21 * oleonard shakes huggin and shouts "Don't you die on me! You never gave up on anything in your life!!"
14:22 rhcl pour coffed down its throat and shock it with 21 AAA batteries
14:23 rhcl coffee
14:23 rhcl maybe I need just a little jolt
14:25 rhcl @later tell gmcharlt kickstart huggin?
14:26 rhcl ovbiously that wont work either
14:37 Dyrcona rhcl: I did a later for gmcharlt in #evergreen on your behalf. :)
14:37 rhcl cool, tnx
14:38 * cait waves at Dyrcona
14:38 * Dyrcona waves.
14:39 cait Joubu++ :)
14:39 Oak joined #koha
14:59 maximep joined #koha
15:13 ColinC joined #koha
15:17 cait ashimema++ as well :)
15:29 huginn joined #koha
15:29 gmcharlt @quote random
15:29 huginn gmcharlt: Quote #257: "<pianohacker> That code has enough smells to start a perfume shop" (added by wizzyrea at 10:13 PM, June 12, 2013)
15:31 Dyrcona I like that quote!
15:32 cait heh
15:32 cait @quote random
15:32 huginn cait: Quote #285: "<cait> maybe we should keep #koha for the cookies, and split off a dev chat :)" (added by gmcharlt at 09:26 PM, December 16, 2013)
15:32 cait maybe I shoudl add that to today's agenda? :)
15:40 druthb @quote random
15:40 huginn druthb: Quote #26: "<chris> as an aside C4::Search makes my brain hurt" (added by jdavidb at 09:21 PM, August 22, 2009)
15:40 cait @quote random
15:40 huginn cait: Quote #226: "<wizzyrea> like someone would do quote add someone: something funny" (added by gmcharlt at 09:57 PM, December 27, 2012)
15:41 cait @quote random
15:41 huginn cait: Quote #85: "owen: Nothing says embracing my geekness like participating in an IRC meeting about software licenses!" (added by kf at 12:23 PM, July 14, 2010)
15:43 caseykoons joined #koha
15:46 Oak @wunder Konstanz
15:46 huginn Oak: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 8.3°C (4:45 PM CET on March 05, 2014). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 4.0°C. Windchill: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady).
15:46 Oak @wunder islamabad
15:46 huginn Oak: The current temperature in Islamabad, Pakistan is 15.0°C (8:00 PM PKT on March 05, 2014). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 59%. Dew Point: 7.0°C. Pressure: (Rising).
15:46 Oak Hi cait, druthb, everyone!
15:46 Oak magnuse
15:49 smilauer joined #koha
15:49 cait hi Oak :)
15:49 Oak :)
15:56 smilauer_ joined #koha
15:57 smi joined #koha
15:57 smi logout
15:58 Oak okay
16:00 rhcl joined #koha
16:02 rocio joined #koha
16:03 rhcl @wunder 64507
16:03 huginn rhcl: The current temperature in Wyatt Park, St Joseph, Missouri is 0.3°C (10:03 AM CST on March 05, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 73%. Dew Point: -4.0°C. Windchill: 0.0°C. Pressure: 30.24 in 1024 hPa (Rising).
16:03 rhcl he's back. tnx gmcharlt
16:21 collum joined #koha
16:39 tcohen joined #koha
16:42 druthb @wunder 77098
16:42 huginn druthb: The current temperature in Greenway Plaza, Houston, Texas is 7.8°C (10:42 AM CST on March 05, 2014). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 7.0°C. Windchill: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Falling).
16:42 rhcl humm, isn't that cool for Houston?
16:42 tcohen @wunder cordoba, argentina
16:43 huginn tcohen: The current temperature in Bo Alto de San Martin, Cordoba City, Argentina is 30.1°C (1:40 PM ART on March 05, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 32%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Steady).
16:44 druthb it is chilly in Houston, for march.  We had another round of icing yesterday.
16:44 druthb Supposed to get up to 20 or so by Friday.  We shall see.
16:54 cait left #koha
16:59 reiveune bye
16:59 reiveune left #koha
17:02 edveal joined #koha
17:03 rhcl joined #koha
17:04 irma joined #koha
17:13 cait joined #koha
17:21 mtompset_away joined #koha
17:21 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
17:23 Oak hello mtompset
17:23 mtompset Greetings, Oak.
17:23 mtompset Are you going to be around for the meeting?
17:26 ColinC left #koha
17:40 ColinC joined #koha
17:47 Oak mtompset, well, i can try. but, it'll be at 12:00am my time. and i have to get up really early.
17:48 mtompset Ah, okay.
17:48 mtompset Well, there's always the log files, right? :)
17:48 Oak yeah, but live is live.
17:54 smilauer joined #koha
18:03 mtompset The game is only on once. :)
18:03 wajasu mtompset: i was looking into signing off bug 11489.  i was trying some more extensive test scenarios along th lines of cait's comment #19.
18:03 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11489 normal, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , OPAC search results in 404 error when the only search result is supressed
18:04 mtompset Okay, and?
18:04 wajasu i did a simple patch to get hidelostitems   total count to work, but it seems more invloved.
18:06 mtompset Well, the problem is you can't get it to work fully, because the full result set is never passed back, so you don't know how many are actually hidden. And it could change from page to page/result set to result set.
18:06 mtompset This is why facets returned from Zebra (or whatever search engine) are the best way to fix this sort of problem.
18:07 mtompset If the query to get the results actually excluded the lost items in the first place, then it would be easily done.
18:08 wajasu thats what i thought.
18:09 wajasu it looks like there is some attempt.  commented out code pertaining to hidelostitems. must not work.
18:10 mtompset It's been a while since I looked at that code.
18:12 Bruce_ joined #koha
18:12 Oak yeah
18:13 wajasu i added code in the for loop, but the join is against biblioitems.   i think we need to get the item  lost  and count accordingly, and subtract from the total.  i did a simple fix, but I think the results only get the first item, and when you subsequent are lost, ..
18:14 mtompset wajasu: If I recall, there is another problem...
18:14 wajasu so we need to grab all the items to look ate the lost flag.
18:14 mtompset The [0] is hardcoded.
18:14 mtompset And I think that plays into this.
18:15 Oak wajasu++
18:15 Oak mtompset++
18:15 * Oak sleepy. see you later #koha.
18:17 wajasu do you recall whan [0] is?   is it the 1st item?
18:17 wajasu whan/what
18:17 mtompset Yes... there is an array reference to the first item [0]...
18:17 mtompset it should have a tiny loop to look for the first non-hidden/lost item.
18:17 mtompset and not hardcode 0.
18:18 mtompset let's see if I can find and remember this mess.
18:18 wajasu i agree.
18:18 mtompset bug 8168 is easier to sign off. ;)
18:18 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8168 minor, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , ersatz CSV header in attachment of overdue notices sent to administrator
18:19 wajasu i can look at 8168
18:24 jsasse joined #koha
18:32 magnuse meeting in ~30 minutes, right?
18:34 ColinC yes
18:35 * cait is ready :)
18:35 jwagner joined #koha
18:37 mtompset Greetings, magnuse cait. :)
18:37 mtompset Greetings, ColinC. :)
18:40 magnuse hiya mtompset and ColinC
18:41 cait and hi ColinC, magnuse and mtompset
18:42 ColinC hi all
18:44 cait hm could be quick tonight
18:46 peggy joined #koha
18:47 * cait waves at peggy :)
18:49 hankbank joined #koha
18:51 mveron joined #koha
18:51 peggy Hi Cait!
18:52 mveron Hi #koha
18:52 cait hi mveron :)
18:52 mveron hi cait :-)
18:53 mveron @wunder allschwil
18:53 huginn mveron: The current temperature in Wetter Allschwil, Allschwil, Switzerland is 7.3°C (7:53 PM CET on March 05, 2014). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Windchill: 7.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Steady).
18:54 peggy light snow in the air here - kind of pretty
18:55 * cait wonders if there is enough time left for making tea
18:55 cait hm gonna try, brb
18:58 mtompset Run cait run! :)
18:58 oleonard-away joined #koha
18:58 magnuse wb oleonard-away
18:59 cait back
19:00 * magnuse suspects cait of instant tea and hot water from the tap
19:00 cait nope
19:00 cait it's tea bags, but i boiled the water :)
19:00 gmcharlt :0
19:01 clintD joined #koha
19:01 magnuse poor water
19:02 magnuse or should that be "pour water"?
19:02 mveron Tea bags were a misunderstanding, see
19:02 mveron The loose tea was intended to be removed from the sample bags by customers, but they found it easier to brew the tea with the tea still enclosed in the porous bags.
19:02 mveron :-)
19:03 rhcl is the meeting over?
19:03 jcamins mveron: interesting!
19:03 wahanui interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
19:04 oleonard The meeting should be starting now?
19:04 mtompset rhcl: That would be pretty fast if it was.
19:04 mtompset It should be, as far as I know.
19:04 rhcl @wunder time
19:04 huginn rhcl: Error: No such location could be found.
19:04 mtompset @wunder Dublin
19:04 gmcharlt give me a moemnt to get organized, and I'm happy to run it
19:04 huginn mtompset: Error: No such location could be found.
19:04 mtompset @wunder Dublin, ireland
19:04 huginn mtompset: The current temperature in Swords West, Swords, Ireland is 9.4°C (7:04 PM GMT on March 05, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 73%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Windchill: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Rising).
19:05 gmcharlt #startmeeting Koha General Meeting, 5 March 2014
19:05 huginn Meeting started Wed Mar  5 19:05:02 2014 UTC.  The chair is gmcharlt. Information about MeetBot at
19:05 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
19:05 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 March 2014)
19:05 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'koha_general_meeting__5_march_2014'
19:05 mtompset wajasu++ #thanks for the sign off.
19:05 gmcharlt #link[…]ting_5_March_2014 Agenda
19:05 gmcharlt #topic Introductions
19:05 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 March 2014)
19:05 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
19:05 mtompset #info Mark Tompsett
19:05 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ
19:05 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries
19:05 magnuse #info Magnus Enger, Oslo Public Library, Norway
19:05 gmcharlt #info gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, 3.16RM, Equinox, USA
19:05 jwagner #info Jane Wagner, LibLime/PTFS
19:05 peggy #info Peggy Thrasher, NH, USA
19:05 jsasse #info Joel Sasse, MN USA
19:06 ColinC #info Colin Campbell, PTFS-Europe
19:06 mveron #info Marc Véron, marc veron ag (, Allschwil, Switzerland, member of Koha Support Schweiz
19:06 jcamins #info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services
19:06 rhcl #info rhcl = Greg Lawson, Rolling Hills Consolidated Library, St. Joseph, MO, USA  -ro
19:06 clintD #info clint deckard, Anact,NZ
19:07 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin
19:08 gmcharlt ok
19:09 gmcharlt #topic Maintenance release updates
19:09 Topic for #koha is now Maintenance release updates (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 March 2014)
19:09 gmcharlt RMaints for 3.8, 3.10, 3.12, and 3.14, please give any updates you have now
19:10 cait I guess bad timing - none of them seems around?
19:11 gmcharlt ok, we'll just assume that they're all hunky-dory
19:11 smilauer joined #koha
19:11 gmcharlt #info No particular updates from the RMaints - no news is good news
19:11 gmcharlt #info 3.14.4 released on February 26
19:11 gmcharlt #info 3.12.11 released on February 25
19:12 gmcharlt #topic Update on 3.16
19:12 Topic for #koha is now Update on 3.16 (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 March 2014)
19:12 gmcharlt #info RM will be clearing the passed QA queue (via pushing or throwing patches back) prior to the Marseille hackfest
19:12 mcooper joined #koha
19:12 gmcharlt #info QA team is currently working on patch signoff and patch rescue during this period
19:13 mtompset When is the hackfest again?
19:13 magnuse mtompset: next week!
19:13 wahanui rumour has it next week is project week
19:13 gmcharlt #link[…]February_25,_2014 notes and minutes from the 25 February IRC dev meeting
19:13 magnuse gmcharlt: are there dates for feature freeze et al yet?
19:14 gmcharlt #info gmcharlt will set firm dates for feature freeze immediate after hackfest
19:14 gmcharlt #info The Marseille Hackfest runs from 10-14 March
19:15 cait gmcharlt++
19:15 magnuse gmcharlt++
19:15 gmcharlt any other questions?
19:16 gmcharlt #topic KohaCon 2014
19:16 Topic for #koha is now KohaCon 2014 (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 March 2014)
19:17 gmcharlt looks like neither tcohen or bgkriegel are here, so this may be brief
19:17 gmcharlt ... and so it is
19:17 gmcharlt #topic KohaCon 2015
19:17 Topic for #koha is now KohaCon 2015 (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 March 2014)
19:18 gmcharlt #info question was posed as to whether it is time to start site-selection for the 2015 conference
19:18 gmcharlt seems reasonable to me
19:18 * cait agrees
19:18 gmcharlt are there any volunteers here who want to go ahead and get that started?
19:19 gmcharlt @monologue
19:19 huginn gmcharlt: Your current monologue is at least 2 lines long.
19:20 oleonard Looks like the first call for 2014 proposals was June 2013?
19:20 gmcharlt in that case, doesn't hurt to defer for a bit longer
19:20 cait oleonard: maybe the next host wants to have it a bit earlier in the year - I think starting now would not hurt
19:21 gmcharlt yeah, to split the difference, a bit earlier than June for CFP would be good, but don't necessarily need to do it instantly
19:21 oleonard Whoops, cait just volunteered! ;)
19:21 cait ah sorry no
19:22 cait i have my hands pretty full already
19:22 gmcharlt :)
19:22 gmcharlt how about just an action item to put this on the agenda for the April meeting?
19:22 jsasse +1
19:22 cait +1
19:22 mveron +1
19:22 magnuse +1
19:22 ColinC +1
19:23 gmcharlt #action Galen will put getting the site-selection process starting for KohaCon 2015 on the April general meeting agenda
19:23 gmcharlt #topic Compiling LESS files more
19:23 Topic for #koha is now Compiling LESS files more (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 March 2014)
19:23 gmcharlt (sorry, I could. not. resist.)
19:23 magnuse lol
19:24 gmcharlt #link[…]p_OPAC_LESS_files info on compiling LESS files
19:24 cait :)
19:24 gmcharlt oleonard: here's my current thinking -
19:24 gmcharlt it would be easy enough to make a build target to recompile the less
19:24 gmcharlt which would mean it would be done during installation and updates
19:25 gmcharlt however... I have  a question I'd like your opinion on
19:25 gmcharlt what would be your recommendation for somebody who wants to incoporate this into their OPAC customization tweaks
19:25 gmcharlt override bits of CSS is one thing
19:25 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agggme, New York City
19:26 gmcharlt but let's say somebody wants to do something like tweak the height of the navbar to accommodate a taller logo?
19:26 gmcharlt how would you recommend they go about that?
19:26 gmcharlt and is there call, you think, for compiling LESS files to potentially become part of the standard toolkit for tweaks?
19:27 cait hm it feels like the LESS would make more sense if you are using a css file opposed to the opacusercss?
19:27 oleonard There's no reason why folks can't customize using plain CSS, even while incorporated more complex tools like media queries. I don't think LESS needs to enter into the equation
19:28 wajasu what if tweakable bits are in sysprefs, and upon save, less is run to compile a new customized css file?
19:28 oleonard But I could foresee a system which took custom CSS from system preferences and automatically minified it and concatenated it with Koha's built-in CSS
19:28 jcamins If I were to customize dramatically based on the Bootstrap theme, I would use LESS.
19:29 oleonard I doubt most would do that much
19:29 jcamins But my feeling is anyone doing that level of customization is going to be figuring it out themselves, so I see no need to make special allowances for it.
19:29 jcamins oleonard: it would have to be pretty dramatic.
19:30 gmcharlt well, not necessarily /that/ dramatic -- changing the height of the navbar is, AFAICT, best done via LESS
19:30 gmcharlt though I'm open to suggestions that I'm wrong on that point
19:31 oleonard Along with LESS compiling, the other thing I have in mind is incorporating tasks using something like Grunt:
19:31 jcamins gmcharlt: that's true, but that seems kind of dramatic to me.
19:32 gmcharlt meh, not every library's logo fits well into a constraint that it be < 40 px tall
19:32 gmcharlt of course, there are other options for placing it
19:32 BigRig joined #koha
19:32 peggy It wouldn't see dramatic to a non-technical librarian
19:32 peggy seem
19:33 jcamins The reason I find that dramatic is that just changing the height of the navbar doesn't really seem to me to be enough... though maybe it's just a mouse and cookie problem.
19:34 meliss joined #koha
19:34 magnuse peggy: very true!
19:34 wahanui I know. That's why I said it.
19:35 gmcharlt one second, I'm writing something up for BZ on this
19:35 phasefx2_ joined #koha
19:36 jcamins (i.e. I might start out changing the height of the navbar, but by the time I'm done, I can reasonably expect to have changed a skajillion other things too; otherwise I could just override the places where the variable is used)
19:36 MichelleMears joined #koha
19:37 trea joined #koha
19:38 gmcharlt jcamins: right, but AIUI, that's the point of recompiling -- for certain things, you just set a Bootstrap variable, and it recalculates everything for you during the compilation
19:38 gmcharlt i.e., that certain types of changes would be basically one-liners in the LESS, but become larger in the generated CSS
19:38 magnuse aiui?
19:38 wahanui aiui is As I Understand It
19:39 cait wahanui++
19:39 mveron
19:39 oleonard Note that while that may be true for stock Bootstrap CSS it's not true for the bootstrap theme's LESS. We would need to make improvements.
19:40 bag #info Brendan Gallagher bywater
19:40 oleonard The bootstrap theme's LESS file only begins to implement all the features possible with LESS
19:40 gmcharlt bug 11896
19:40 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11896 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , add tools for compiling LESS files
19:41 gmcharlt oleonard: jcamins: ^^ does this seem reasonable for a next step
19:41 gmcharlt blithely pushing aside, for the moment, the question of user-level customization task that would be best done via tweakign the LESS?
19:42 oleonard gmcharlt: Could this process be done so that instead of triggering the LESS compile directly it triggered a grunt task which included LESS file compilation?
19:42 jcamins That seems reasonable. Until we can build the LESS and cache it on the fly, OpacUserCSS is going to seem vastly preferable for anything that doesn't involve large numbers of changes, though, at least in my opinion.
19:43 jcamins (not that I think that generating the CSS on the fly is a crucial behavior that needs to be added NOW NOW NOW, just noting that the fact that we can compile our own LESS stylesheets doesn't make it a better idea than writing our own opac.css files for relatively small changes)
19:44 thd Is there an advantage to using less for web browser client specific changes or are all proper advantages of less server side?
19:44 gmcharlt oleonard: not necessarily opposed to grunt, but I note that it's not packaged by Debian
19:44 francharb joined #koha
19:45 thd s/less/LESS/
19:45 oleonard gmcharlt: Hm, understandable.
19:45 wahanui understandable. is probably why i was running it against a local copy
19:46 mobile joined #koha
19:46 gmcharlt on the other hand, things like might obviate that difficulty
19:46 gmcharlt dunno - experimentation required
19:46 gmcharlt but I'll add a comment to the bug with that suggsetion
19:47 gmcharlt cait has suggested that LESS-compilation be added to the agenda for the next dev meeting
19:47 wajasu what dists is npm packaged on?
19:47 gmcharlt and I'm inclined to agree
19:47 gmcharlt wajasu: npm itself is packaged only for Debian
19:47 gmcharlt gah
19:47 gmcharlt for Debian Jessie
19:48 gmcharlt for Ubuntu, looks like precise is the first release it's avaiable for
19:49 gmcharlt OK, to wrap up, I think
19:49 gmcharlt #info bug 11896 should be used for hashing out patches for adding LESS-compilation to the install/upgrade process
19:49 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11896 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , add tools for compiling LESS files
19:49 gmcharlt #action gmcharlt will add LESS compilation to the agenda for the dev meeting next week
19:50 gmcharlt oleonard: anything else on this for the moemtn?
19:50 mtompset There's a dev meeting next week?
19:51 oleonard gmcharlt: yes
19:51 cait mtompset: yes
19:51 gmcharlt mtompset: see http://meetings.koha-community[…]-02-25-14.59.html
19:51 gmcharlt #info Next dev meeting is scheduled for 15UTC and 21UTC on 12 March 2014
19:52 mtompset Okay. Thank you for the clarifications.
19:52 gmcharlt #topic Announcements
19:52 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 March 2014)
19:52 gmcharlt anyboyd?
19:53 MichelleMears left #koha
19:53 * cait has none
19:53 oleonard gmcharlt: Question
19:53 wahanui Question is "What is the meaning of life, the universe and everything?"
19:54 gmcharlt oleonard: answer
19:54 cait maybe just: be prepared for lots of bugzilla mails next week :) and keep an eye on your patches? :)
19:54 oleonard Where has this discussion gotten us?
19:54 oleonard Are we still asking devs to submit patches containing both LESS modifications and compiled CSS?
19:54 oleonard ...until we get something else in place?
19:54 gmcharlt oleonard: from my POV it has gotten us to closer to setting up a install target
19:55 gmcharlt as far as LESS via CSS... ultimately LESS will be the only thing that gets stored in the Git tree
19:55 gmcharlt and as far as dealing with patches that include LESS vs. CSS, my inclination is to take the LESS as authoritative
19:56 gmcharlt and (pending further discussion at next week's meeting, I think) toss back any new ones that /only/ touch the CSS
19:56 tcohen joined #koha
19:57 gmcharlt oleonard: does that answer your question?
19:58 oleonard yes
19:58 cait so qa will fail when the less changes aremissing?
19:59 magnuse should this be added to the coding guidelines?
19:59 gmcharlt eventually - obviously there should be some sort of grace period
19:59 gmcharlt I don't think it needs to be in the coding guidelines, actually
19:59 gmcharlt agreement on koha-devel should suffice
19:59 gmcharlt reason: there ultimately won't be CSS files for Bootstrap in teh Git tree for folks to edit
20:00 thd If it would not be in the coding guidelines, how should everyone be expected to know?
20:00 magnuse ah, true
20:00 wajasu wiki?
20:00 wahanui wiki is
20:00 cait i think having some clear instructions would be good - on how to edit the css
20:01 cait how to do it right
20:01 mveron cait +
20:01 cait i am a bit lost there myself right now
20:01 * magnuse too
20:01 wajasu this all we have now:[…]p_OPAC_LESS_files
20:01 gmcharlt to reiterate, ultimately there would be no CSS to edit
20:01 cait not sure i understand less right
20:01 cait but wouldn't you have to generate one for testing your changes?
20:02 gmcharlt yes, but as a generated artificat, it wouldn't be stored in the Git tree, and you wouldn't be genreating patches against it
20:02 gmcharlt just the source LESS fiels
20:02 cait yeah, i was more thinking aobut a tutorial on 'how do i change the styling of X now' :)
20:03 gmcharlt ah
20:03 gmcharlt well, wouln't actually be much different
20:03 gmcharlt since for most things, the LESS files are very similar to CSS
20:03 gmcharlt so it would be (a) edit the LESS (b) run a command to generate/refresh the CSS (c) test
20:04 wajasu the tester must compile the patched LESS files.   the person submitting the patch might be nice and supply the test plan with how to compile to the target CSS file.
20:05 thd Certainly a prominent tutorial would be needed to keep Koha user friendly.
20:07 oleonard There is no reason why an individual patch would require a test plan describing the compile process
20:07 oleonard The process is the same for any LESS file changes.
20:08 gmcharlt and that's the point of things like the update_zebra_conf (sp?) makefile target
20:09 gmcharlt and a similar one could be created for LESS compilation
20:09 gmcharlt it's not beyond the realm of possibility that Git hooks could automate it
20:09 gmcharlt *however*, I think we're getting off into the weeds here -- further commentary on the bug, please
20:09 mveron That would be great.
20:09 mveron (automating)
20:10 gmcharlt #topic Setting time for next meeting
20:10 Topic for #koha is now Setting time for next meeting (Meeting topic: Koha General Meeting, 5 March 2014)
20:10 gmcharlt given the number of meetings this month
20:10 gmcharlt I propose 9 April as the date
20:11 magnuse +1
20:11 jsasse +1
20:11 gmcharlt as far as timing goes, I woudl like to propose an experiment
20:11 gmcharlt namely, a split meeting, 15UTC + 21UTC, similar to the last dev meeting
20:12 gmcharlt I feel that the current rotation we're on ends up resulting in at least 1/3 of the general meetings being barely attended at all
20:12 cait +1
20:12 ColinC +1
20:12 oleonard +1
20:12 magnuse +1 for experimenting
20:13 jwagner +1 worth a try
20:13 mveron +1 experimenting
20:13 thd +1 # Most any experiment for better attended meeting times.
20:13 clintD +1
20:13 peggy +1
20:13 jsasse +1
20:14 wajasu +1
20:14 gmcharlt #agreed The next general meeting will be a split one at 15UTC and 21UTC on 9 April 2014
20:14 mtompset +1 # worth the experiment.
20:15 gmcharlt I will also make a point of specifically mentioning this experiment on the general mailing list
20:15 gmcharlt thanks, everybody!
20:15 gmcharlt #endmeeting
20:15 Topic for #koha is now Next general meeting is 5 March 2014 at 19:00 UTC. Welcome to the IRC home of Koha Please use for pastes.
20:15 huginn Meeting ended Wed Mar  5 20:15:26 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
20:15 huginn Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-03-05-19.05.html
20:15 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]4-03-05-19.05.txt
20:15 huginn Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]05-19.05.log.html
20:15 cait gmcharlt++ # thx
20:15 cait :)
20:16 thd oleonard: During the meeting, you had mentioned something about many more uses for LESS.  Would you mention some others?
20:16 oleonard thd:
20:17 oleonard thd: Not more uses for LESS, but more features in LESS which we could take advantage of
20:18 ColinC left #koha
20:18 oleonard The bootstrap theme's LESS file uses some variables, some mixins, lots of nesting, but no operations or functions for instance
20:18 thd oleanord: Thanks, I understand better with the distinction about features.
20:19 cait oleonard++
20:19 cait i am starting to get a better idea of it too
20:21 mveron Looks interesting...
20:21 thd oleonard: Is there any dynamic run time functionality in LESS or is it entirely for a compile once process for serving static CSS files?
20:22 oleonard thd: You can use JavaScript to "compile" LESS on the fly if you want.
20:24 thd oleonard: What I am thinking of is would it be useful for dynamically generating CSS files specific to particular web browser features, such as window size, detected during a browsing session?
20:25 oleonard Other technologies do that. The media queries in the bootstrap theme's CSS change the OPAC's layout based on window size for instance.
20:25 oleonard JavaScript "polyfills" can help emulate new CSS features which older browsers don't have
20:28 mtompset which level of HTML compliance are we working on having?
20:28 mtompset which standard?
20:28 oleonard html5
20:28 rangi here's what ive been doing[…]ons.git;a=summary
20:28 cait moving the po files?
20:29 rangi just copied so far, but id like to get bernardo to commit to there, instead of to the main repo
20:29 rangi then a symlink, before building the tarball/release should pull them all in
20:29 cait cool
20:29 rangi once that is working fine, then remove them from the main one
20:30 rangi it wont drop the size, but it will slow it growing, by a lot
20:30 tcohen bernardo has been playing with that idea of yours rangi (hi rangi)
20:30 rangi cool
20:32 oleonard Bye everyone. See you all in 17 hours or so
20:38 edveal joined #koha
20:43 mveron Bye #koha
20:54 mobile joined #koha
20:55 meliss joined #koha
20:57 EGP joined #koha
21:06 eythian hi
21:07 cait hi eythian
21:07 maximep left #koha
21:09 rhcl hi eythian
21:09 mtompset Greetings, eythian. :)
21:26 maximep joined #koha
21:37 maximep left #koha
21:38 maximep joined #koha
21:39 maximep left #koha
21:48 tcohen how can I pass a function reference to a template?
21:49 tcohen for example, I'd like to do smth like:
21:49 tcohen $template->param(  CMISImageURL => &C4::External::CMIS::image_url() );
21:50 tcohen and use it: <img src="[% CMISImageURL( SEARCH_RESULT.normalized_isbn ) %]" alt="" class="item-thumbnail" />
21:51 tcohen would that work?
21:52 wizzyrea does anyone have development in the work to make long overdue not charge based on borrower category?
21:52 wizzyrea i.e. borrower category "staff" doesn't get replacement charges applied
21:53 wizzyrea in the works*
21:56 cait wizzyrea: havne't seen something on bugzilla
21:57 wizzyrea yeah, I don't either, which actually surprises me a lot!
21:57 wizzyrea feels like it ought to be a parameter in the circ rules
21:57 wizzyrea "charge lost items" or something
22:00 bag seems silly to me to waste the time on that dev - when the staff member can just waive their own fines or override the renewal
22:00 bag wait by time - I totally meant money :P
22:01 gmcharlt tcohen: yes - http://www.template-toolkit.or[…]ction_Subroutines
22:01 wizzyrea well what about say, homebound borrowers?
22:01 tcohen gmcharlt: thanks.
22:01 tcohen gmcharlt: is &C4::External::CMIS::image_url() kosher?
22:02 gmcharlt tcohen: I think you need \&C4::...
22:02 wizzyrea I agree it might be a 123, but apparently it causes enough consternation for someone to ask for it.
22:05 wizzyrea or libraries that don't want to charge their volunteers lost charges. Though to me, if you lose a book from the library you really ought to be responsible for replacing it, even if you're staff :P
22:05 gmcharlt however, I have an inchoate sense that it's better to take the time to write a TT plugin module, as opening the door to surfacing core APIs in templates fees like it could mix levels too much
22:06 gmcharlt wizzyrea: as a data point, I try to encourage folks not to use staff accounts for their own borrowing
22:06 wizzyrea yeah that's a good plan.
22:08 gmcharlt and there are libraries where getting caught waiving one's own fines would be grounds for discipline
22:11 wizzyrea ^ this actually reads like a roundabout argument *for* allowing certain categories to be systematically excluded from fees
22:11 wizzyrea to me
22:11 wizzyrea "the system handles that, you don't touch it"
22:11 wizzyrea but that is a people problem, not a tech problem.
22:12 eythian tcohen: I tend to agree with gmcharlt there, we should try to avoid poking directly into C4 from TT, it's too tight coupling.
22:13 cait wizzyrea: we don't use the long overdues script
22:13 tcohen eythian and gmcharlt: i'm evaluating the difficulty to do something like C4::External::* do
22:13 cait wizzyrea: so it hasn#t come up
22:13 tcohen do you think those should be template plugins instead too?
22:14 tcohen (i prefer to do it as a template plugin too, didn't think of it before, and will do it that way)
22:14 eythian even a plugin that just passes through access. That way there is an obvious boundary.
22:16 rocio joined #koha
22:16 gmcharlt yeah
22:17 gmcharlt wizzyrea: and indeed, yes, you've surfaced something implicit in my comments
22:18 gmcharlt i.e., if you're going to have a stated policy of not charging or waiving certain types of fines for specified patron groups, having the code manage it could be useful
22:29 cait good night all
22:29 cait left #koha
22:31 dcook joined #koha
22:32 wizzyrea good night cait
22:41 jsasse #quit
22:52 caseykoons_ joined #koha
22:57 chrisvella94 joined #koha
22:57 papa joined #koha
23:00 rhcl I musta missed the winner of the NA Koha Users Group. Was it announced somewhere? Who won?
23:00 rhcl the meeting, I mean
23:12 bag rhcl NCRL won
23:16 caseykoons joined #koha
23:31 joat joined #koha
23:46 tcohen joined #koha
23:51 mtompset Greetings, tcohen. :)
23:53 caseykoons_ joined #koha
23:54 mtompset Greetings, wizzyrea.
23:54 tcohen hi mtompset
23:56 mtompset Okay. This is probably a dumb sounding question, but is the difference between acquisitions and cataloguing basically whether you ordered it, or you discovered you already had a copy?
23:57 BobB joined #koha

| Channels | #koha index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | plain, newest first | summary