IRC log for #koha, 2013-09-26

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:00 FORMAL lol
00:16 * wizzyrea pats wahanui
00:16 wizzyrea it's ok lil buddy, he didn't mean it.
00:17 wizzyrea can you link us to the place in the log?
00:17 drnoe_away left #koha
00:18 wizzyrea oh nm I missed that he had gone.
00:18 wizzyrea quant finance! quant finance!
00:18 * wizzyrea suspects someone was talking about quaint finance practices in libraries and spelled it wrong.
00:19 * jcamins theorizes that maybe "MARC" means something to quants.
00:19 jcamins wizzyrea: actually, that's a better guess.
00:19 jcamins Way better.
00:24 rangi or speaking french
00:24 rangi Comete, pierrick: bah elle est inquiète par rapport au témoignage de l'école des mines quant à leur migration
00:24 jcamins rangi: or that.
00:24 dcook Mmm
00:35 cait left #koha
00:45 tcohen joined #koha
00:46 eythian[…]14-17_mickens.pdf
00:50 mtompset What does that have to do with anything, eythian?
00:50 eythian it's an entertaining look into the history of Intel's processor design process.
00:57 jcamins eythian: that was great.
01:07 eythian jcamins: it is, isn't it.
01:24 mtompset okay... if I'm installing a unimarc system... is grs or dom better (which will get me a working system without having to edit configuration files)?
01:26 jcamins GRS-1, there is no DOM configuration for UNIMARC.
01:27 mtompset Okay, that's good to know.
01:28 mtompset Does chr vs. icu make a difference if I'm grabbing data from Biblibre's demo system?
02:08 eythian wahanui: php
02:08 wahanui i think php is[…]al-of-bad-design/
02:09 eythian wahanui: php is also
02:09 wahanui okay, eythian.
02:10 dcook Whoa...
02:14 jcamins I'm not sure that some of those are worthy of objection.
02:15 dcook ...that site is run on Drupal...which is written in PHP, no?
02:15 dcook Interesting..
02:15 wahanui hmmm... interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
02:15 dcook "This site was born out of a DrupalCon presentation to educate people of PHP's quirks. If you want to use this material to bash PHP you are in the wrong place."
02:16 dcook O_o
02:16 * dcook is confused
02:30 mtompset Isn't Frappat french slang for idiot?
02:31 dcook Not that I've ever heard but I'm not that familiar with French slang
02:32 mtompset I vaguely recall a story from my grade 10 french teacher saying that she was complaining about having to sleep with a fly swatter to someone in French, but the word for fly swatter was also used as slang for idiot.
02:33 mtompset Needless to say the person she was talking to was horrified to hear about her sleeping some one like that.
02:33 dcook ahhh
02:33 dcook Umm no
02:33 dcook I know what you're saying now
02:34 dcook Tapette
02:34 dcook But it's not slang for idiot
02:34 dcook It's a homophobic slang word
02:35 mtompset even more horrifying then. :)
02:35 dcook Much more
02:35 dcook Wait
02:35 dcook Horrifying word
02:35 mtompset yes.
02:35 mtompset My french teacher was straight as far as I knew.
02:36 mtompset Mixing up gender identity is horrifying too.
02:37 dcook I'm not entirely sure how to take your meaning, mtompset.
02:37 dcook My meaning is that tapette is a horrible slang word that no one should ever apply to another person.
02:38 dcook As one's sexual preferences are really no business of anyone else's.
02:39 mtompset yes, I was referring to the secondary related idea that suggesting someone is attracted to a particular gender when they are not is horrifying.
02:39 johnbljr Trying to quickly add books and wondering how I can add more frameworks - all I have listed is default and fast add...I still need to go in and choose Book...any suggestions on adding some more default ones? Are there any premade that I can just load in?
02:40 jcamins frameworks?
02:40 wahanui frameworks are a big topic
02:40 jcamins marc frameworks?
02:40 wahanui marc frameworks is[…]i/MARC_frameworks
02:40 jcamins ^^ there are a few there
02:40 dcook While I personally wouldn't find that horrifying, I understand that someone else might and that is certainly their right to think that way (even if I might think it's a misguided way of thinking).
02:40 jcamins FWIW, I only ever use default and fast add.
02:40 dcook But that's my last word on that one, mtompset. I'm more than happy to drop the topic.
02:40 johnbljr Thanks.
02:40 mtompset dcook: Yes, let's. terrible scenario.
02:41 jcamins In fact, I strongly encourage my libraries not to use any of the other frameworks.
02:41 * mtompset cheers.
02:41 mtompset On a positive note. I have a Unimarc installation now. :)
02:41 dcook Sweet. I should set one up one of these days...
02:42 dcook Default and fastadd are usually the ones I advocate as well
02:42 mtompset Default?
02:42 wahanui somebody said Default was ports for those who dont have access/skills to run dns
02:43 mtompset Why wouldn't you use a particular framework (like BKS, etc.)? Why just Default?
02:43 jcamins mtompset: because the frameworks that come suggested with Koha are all lacking fields and provide no added value.
02:45 mtompset What if you have all of the frameworks (BKS, etc.) updated to not lack fields, etc.? What would motivate the use of Default over the others?
02:45 jcamins If you've done that then all the frameworks are identical.
02:45 dcook ^^
02:46 mtompset So, books would require entering the same meta-data as videos?
02:46 jcamins (and you have therefore wasted a lot of your time)
02:47 jcamins More or less.
02:47 jcamins There are a handful of fields that are format-specific, but there are far more fields that aren't.
02:47 mtompset So, does Default have all the fields?
02:47 jcamins Nearly.
02:48 jcamins I think there's a patch adding the last few missing.
02:56 mtompset okay... I'm testing a patch, and I think there's a file that is whack... how do I cherry pick from origin/master a particular file?
03:00 jcamins Find the file you want and copy it to where you want it to go.
03:02 eythian or something like git checkout -- origin/master:path/to/file
03:02 eythian might not be exactly that, but it's similar
03:02 jcamins eythian: doesn't that hide the diff, though?
03:03 mtompset I don't want the diff.
03:03 mtompset I want the original file before the patch.
03:03 eythian oh
03:03 eythian git reset path/to/file perhaps then
03:04 eythian or maybe it's checkout
03:04 eythian This stuff I usually look up.
03:04 dcook git checkout -- path/to/file perhaps?
03:04 mtompset That didn't work dcook.
03:04 mtompset I did look at the git diff, and figured out the problem.
03:04 mtompset But it would be really handy to know how to go, "I want the origin/master version of this file and start from scratch."
03:06 eythian reset should do it
03:06 mtompset you can reset an individual file?
03:06 mtompset Okay, that's useful to know.
03:09 eythian yeah, pretty sure you can
03:09 wizzyrea i usually just git checkout
03:09 eythian mtompset: also, you should look into using the patch review thing on bugzilla
03:09 wizzyrea git checkout
03:09 wizzyrea might not work with a patch though
03:09 eythian I think checkout is probably better in this case.
03:09 wizzyrea it will if you've done stuff but haven't committed it
03:10 eythian reset is mostly for undoing a git add when used on files.
03:10 wizzyrea "there's probably a flag for that (tm)"
03:10 eythian but you could make it change the content with --hard.
03:10 mtompset patch review thing on bugzilla?
03:10 wizzyrea true
03:11 eythian mtompset: yes
03:11 eythian you click 'review' beside the patch.
03:11 wizzyrea ohhh
03:11 wizzyrea git checkout master~2
03:12 wizzyrea check out the version of from 2 commits back
03:13 wizzyrea mtompset++ for making me look at the git checkout man page.
03:14 eythian mtompset: you should use the review thing on bugzilla by reading the instructions :) you can comment on a particular line, which is what you wanted there I think.
03:16 mtompset :( The interface for it is not intuitive.
03:16 mtompset I'm not going to spam bugs list again.
03:17 eythian it isn't intuitive at all.
03:19 wizzyrea which bug?
03:20 mtompset I'm working on testing bug 6874
03:20 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , File upload in MARC
03:20 mtompset And I only found this problem as a result of trying to install a fresh install UNIMARC koha.
03:21 mtompset Thoroughness is a good thing!
03:22 mtompset Ah... there's a double click to review the line individually.
03:23 mtompset Okay... figured it is... mouse over tool tip doesn't always appear.
03:23 mtompset ^is^out^
03:27 wizzyrea did the framework guy leave?
03:28 wizzyrea I was going to elucidate the reasons for having the other frameworks, from a practical point of view (i.e. for libraries that don't care about MARC completeness)
03:28 wizzyrea but if he's gone I won't bother.
03:29 mtompset I'll listen to you, wizzyrea. :)
03:29 mtompset I'm a library noob. :)
03:30 wizzyrea hehe
03:35 mtompset Because if you have a framework with every possible field/subfield... why would you need another one that doesn't?
03:36 eythian because that really clutters your display
03:36 eythian also makes it easy to miss one that you should have filled out, because you're skipping 90% of them anyway.
03:37 dcook Depending on what type of cataloguer you are :p
03:38 dcook And the item being catalogued
03:38 wizzyrea yea but not every library needs professional records. If they do, they don't do it themselves, they get the records from OCLC.
03:38 dcook True true
03:38 wizzyrea or another trusted source.
03:38 dcook Those usually benefit from the fast add framework then
03:38 wizzyrea I don't think it's really that easy.
03:39 dcook It's not always
03:39 eythian fast add is a different thing again really though
03:39 wizzyrea I have seen a very wide variety of uses for the frameworks
03:39 dcook I imagine some people do use the serials one
03:39 dcook Maybe a/v
03:39 wizzyrea and lots of our libraries use one "Articles"
03:40 dcook Mmm, right
03:40 dcook I think what jcamins wants to avoid by using different frameworks is the staleness of frameworks
03:40 * eythian wonders how this particular data has a coauthor with no author.
03:40 wizzyrea and yet more wanted to have a specific framework that put all the fields they always use on tab 0, and the optional ones on other tabs
03:41 dcook Ideally, it would be nice if there were one tag library and then each "framework" were a view of it
03:41 dcook Optional?
03:41 wahanui whatever jcamins forgets to check is optional.
03:41 mtompset Ooooh... yes. dcook. I like that. So all the tags are there, but the framework changes the view.
03:42 wizzyrea that was supposed to be the purpose, back in the day. XSLT kind of changed that
03:42 mtompset Then you wouldn't necessarily have to tab between 1XX, 2XX, etc. records.
03:42 wizzyrea and they do do that
03:42 dcook Not really
03:42 wizzyrea for the cataloging interface
03:43 dcook Each framework has its own tag library
03:43 mtompset tags to display, not actual tags.
03:43 dcook If your framework doesn't have a particular field showing, it gets nixed when you save
03:43 dcook Or if you need to add a field, you need to add it to all frameworks (or figure out the ones that probably shoudl have it)
03:44 mtompset Whatever... not like frameworks are going to change in the near future. :)
03:44 dcook true true
03:44 wizzyrea the thing where you have to add it to all of them if you want it is a pain.
03:44 wizzyrea and that editing interface is pants.
03:44 dcook It certainly is
03:44 wizzyrea way too many clicks.
03:45 dcook I accept the premise that you'd want different views for different purposes though.
03:45 mtompset That's a good premise, I think.
03:45 dcook I think older systems called them templates
03:45 dcook wizzyrea: way too many clicks
03:45 johnbljr the reason I did not have it was because my install used UNIMARC and not Marc21
03:45 * dcook misses the pure text interface of yore
03:46 wizzyrea ah a cataloguing purist.
03:46 dcook A cataloguing pragmatist :p
03:46 dcook You can catalogue way faster with that text interface
03:46 dcook You didn't need to touch the mouse
03:46 dcook I might have a touch of purity though, which is one reason I decided not to be a cataloguer :p
03:47 * dcook would rather offer cataloguing advice than obsess over "perfectly" descrbing a resource
03:47 wizzyrea there's a problem between the people who don't want to have climb the super steep learning curve of a text interface, vs the people who want to be able to just pick it up and go
03:48 wizzyrea rather the people who have slaved over their text interface for so long that they have a hard time with anything else
03:48 wizzyrea because yea, no mousing is fast
03:48 wizzyrea it's also harder to learn
03:48 dcook It is
03:48 eythian steep learning curves are good, because it means in a short time you learn a lot. It's the shallow ones that are bad because over a long time you learn very little.
03:48 dcook Ideally, it would be nice to have two interfaces
03:48 wizzyrea much harder to climb though ;)
03:48 dcook eythian: That's downright quoteable
03:49 dcook Initially learning to program: steep learning curve
03:49 eythian wizzyrea: no it isn't, because it takes you less time to do so.
03:49 dcook Trying to program well: way more shallow and difficult..
03:49 * dcook agrees
03:49 dcook Anyway, got to go
03:49 wizzyrea lol I guess that depends on when you think you're done learning
03:49 wizzyrea and if there's ever an end
03:50 eythian not really, if it's a graph, it's best when it's steep.
03:50 dcook life-long learning of steep learning curves :p
03:50 dcook ok, really going now
03:50 eythian time on X, amount learned on Y
03:51 wizzyrea mm ok, if we're talking about a graph then yes.
03:52 wizzyrea if we are talking about effort expended though, no.
03:52 eythian then it wouldn't be a learning curve, it'd be an effort expended curve.
03:52 eythian curve is just a word for an often-monotonic graph after all.
03:54 wizzyrea I think I could happily argue about this with you all day
04:05 mtompset @quote add "eythian:steep learning curves are good, because it means in a short time you learn a lot. It's the shallow ones that are bad because over a long time you learn very little."
04:05 huginn mtompset: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
04:06 mtompset @quote add "eythian:steep learning curves are good, because it means in a short time you learn a lot. It's the shallow ones that are bad because over a long time you learn very little."
04:06 huginn mtompset: The operation succeeded.  Quote #279 added.
04:06 mtompset @get quote 278
04:06 huginn mtompset: Error: The command "get" is available in the Dunno, Herald, Lart, Quote, and ReleaseDay plugins.  Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "get".
04:06 wahanui i already had it that way, huginn.
04:06 mtompset @quote get 278
04:06 huginn mtompset: Quote #278: "jcamins: ... OMGOMGOMG MUST FIX ALL THE THINGS." (added by mtompset at 03:50 AM, September 17, 2013)
04:07 mtompset @quote random
04:07 huginn mtompset: Quote #119: "<wasabi> wow, and a pig!!! ->[…]8_nepali_food.jpg" (added by wasabi at 10:22 AM, January 27, 2011)
04:08 mtompset @quote random
04:08 huginn mtompset: Quote #214: "obelos: Perhaps this means it's time for HLT to choose a different name so we can all move on with our work without this distraction." (added by mtj at 01:52 AM, August 08, 2012)
04:08 mtompset @quote random
04:08 huginn mtompset: Quote #199: "chris_n: considering marc is scary to us, I can't imagine what it does to patrons." (added by wizzyrea at 02:24 PM, April 09, 2012)
04:08 wahanui i already had it that way, huginn.
04:08 mtompset considering marc?
04:08 wahanui considering marc is scarry to us, I can't imagine what it does to patrons
04:11 Oak joined #koha
04:11 Oak kia ora #koha
04:13 mtompset Greetings, Oak!
04:13 mtompset Long time no chat.
04:13 * mtompset cheers, "Woo hoo! Triggered all the C4::Biblio changes in this patch."
04:16 Oak hello mtompset :) yes... lot of things going on here so no time to chat lately.
04:18 mtompset It doesn't help that my timezone has shifted.
04:18 mtompset I should be going to sleep shortly.
04:18 mtompset It's after midnight here.
04:18 Oak :) yeah
04:28 dcook joined #koha
04:34 mtompset Have a great day (24 hour period), #koha dcook Oak wizzyrea eythian and anyone else I missed. :)
04:34 eythian oh hey, New Zealand now has access to google books
04:36 eythian ...although it says most of them aren't available, so who knows.
04:38 eythian oh, it required me to acknowledge the T&C before they became available.
05:00 dac joined #koha
05:05 Dyrcona joined #koha
05:34 johnbljr Anyone have a good tutorial on generating barcodes?
06:18 * magnuse waves
06:19 magnuse nudge nudge[…]-library-software
06:21 laurence joined #koha
06:21 sophie_m joined #koha
06:23 laurence joined #koha
06:28 magnuse @marc 571
06:28 huginn magnuse: unknown tag 571
06:38 marcelr joined #koha
06:38 marcelr hi #koha
06:43 wizzyrea_ joined #koha
06:43 wizzyrea_ sup
06:43 cjh yo
06:50 reiveune joined #koha
06:51 reiveune hello
06:55 alex_a joined #koha
07:01 magnuse hei!
07:02 * magnuse suspects stackexchange is not going to happen
07:04 marcelr hi magnuse
07:04 mtj heya magnuse, marcelr
07:04 marcelr hi mtj
07:05 mtj magnuse, yeah - we just cant accept having SE mods closing legitimate questions on our forum… :/
07:06 magnuse yeah, that is a downer
07:06 mtj but, as others have recommend - discourse or shapado look good
07:07 BigRig joined #koha
07:08 mtj …we can run either of those on *our* server, without the threat of random moderators trashing the site ^^
07:09 magnuse yay! anyone volunteering to install?
07:12 mtj afaik, not yet
07:13 magnuse ruby seems to be the cool kid on the block these days...
07:14 samueld joined #koha
07:14 samueld hi everybody
07:27 magnuse @wunder boo
07:27 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 5.0°C (9:20 AM CEST on September 26, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 3.0°C. Windchill: 4.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady).
07:27 magnuse @wunder marseille
07:27 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Marseille, France is 20.0°C (9:00 AM CEST on September 26, 2013). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 18.0°C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Steady).
07:48 lds joined #koha
07:54 paul_p joined #koha
08:14 kathryn_ joined #koha
08:14 cait joined #koha
08:29 cait morning #koha
08:44 magnuse guten morgen holiday-cait!
08:44 cait morning :)
09:22 Oak i can try/set-up Discourse on my computer, and if it works there, I can set up a micro instance on AWS for you guys to play with...
09:22 Oak hello cait \o
09:23 cait hi Oak :)
09:23 kathryn_ joined #koha
09:23 cait hi kathryn_
09:23 cait wrong time of day! :)
09:24 kathryn_ I know! :) hi cait :)
09:28 cait but yu are not still working i hope?
09:53 wizzyrea_ sup kathryn_ :)
09:54 kathryn_ hiyee I'm just lurking around, reading home renovation blogs :)
09:54 wizzyrea_ oooo
09:57 kathryn_ noone blogs entertainingly about fixing leaks
09:58 wizzyrea_ surely there's a joke to be made about filling crevices with silicone
09:58 kathryn_ aye!
09:59 kathryn_ maybe this is my inter-niche
10:00 magnuse tee hee
10:05 wizzyrea_ joined #koha
10:06 magnuse wb wizzyrea_
10:06 wizzyrea_ lol the hazards of using a web based irc client.
10:06 magnuse moahahaha
10:06 wizzyrea_ i had to rebuild my laptop, hasn't been a priority to get konversation set up again :)
10:16 magnuse wizzyrea_: rebuild physically, or just reinstall software?
10:16 wizzyrea_ well a little of both
10:16 wizzyrea_ i kind of burned up mine >.>
10:16 magnuse ouch?!?
10:17 wizzyrea_ well laptops and pillows don't seem to mix >.>
10:23 magnuse heh
10:34 * Oak always puts a flat clipboard under his laptop... when using in bed
10:35 cait huge comic book here
10:36 Oak :) ooh comic book!
10:37 Oak geek aleret
10:37 cait heh
10:45 Oak i was thinking, that forums like phpbb may also be a good fit for us. in a phpbb forum we can have sub-forums like General, Announcements, Programming, jQuery, OPAC, and then topics inside them. this way things get organized a bit. and our community is quite sensible one so there won't be huge mess of topics. and in that "forumy" sense, Discourse looks good too. I saw this:
10:45 cait hm i don't like forums much personally
10:45 Oak hm
10:45 Oak elaborate a bit....
10:46 cait but that's me :) i am complicated
10:46 cait trying..
10:46 cait i think thinks get easily lost in their
10:46 cait i like the rating idea for good answers
10:47 cait because if a form thread has like.. 10 pages it gets hard to follow, like with some of those looong bug discussions we tend to have
10:47 Oak yeah rating system is great. i read an answer with most UPs in SE and just ignore the other answers... saves time.
10:47 cait think things...
10:47 Oak you have a point.
10:48 * Oak will google "forum+rating+system"
10:49 cait i think the stack exchange idea was good
10:49 cait just having it on an independent platform
10:50 Oak hm
10:51 Oak[…]k-overflow-clones
11:00 nengard joined #koha
11:06 Oak 'shapado' looks interesting
11:10 mcooper joined #koha
11:10 Oak but no. we need something free I think.
11:12 cait yep
11:12 cait doing dishes bbl
11:13 samueld joined #koha
11:22 magnuse shapado is free software, agpl
11:22 magnuse they just try to hide it :-)
11:23 magnuse at the bottom here: it says "Powered by Shapado 4.1.0 under the GNU Affero General Public License" and there is a link to
11:24 jwagner joined #koha
11:35 alex_a_ joined #koha
11:55 lds joined #koha
12:00 Oak ooh let me check that
12:00 meliss joined #koha
12:01 Oak where is the download link magnuse? let's download 100 copies of it asap!!
12:01 Oak oh wait. clone repository!
12:03 drnoe_away joined #koha
12:08 NateC joined #koha
12:14 alex_a joined #koha
12:18 oleonard joined #koha
12:19 oleonard Hi #koha
12:21 marcelr hi oleonard
12:22 edveal joined #koha
12:26 magnuse clone all the repositories!
12:28 bgkriegel joined #koha
12:35 Dyrcona joined #koha
12:45 oleonard Sorry, but if someone starts a Koha phpbb forum I will not be visiting.
12:46 cait you don't like forums either?
12:47 oleonard No. Too hard to keep up with. If I'm forced to visit every day to find out what's new I just won't.
12:47 cait true
12:48 magnuse yup
12:48 oleonard I'm open to the stack exchange model because it could act as a sort of FAQ system. I don't see a need for a new discussion venue.
12:49 cait oleonard: well put :)
12:49 cait i agree, but I couldn't really explain my aversion to forums earlier
12:51 oleonard With any discussion system you need to be able to quickly scan through to see if there are topics which are relevant to you and ignore the rest. I think email is best for this because I'm already reading email throughout the day.
12:52 * cait nods
12:54 oleonard Bug 2969 could use some second and third opinions with regard to gmcharlt's last comment
12:54 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2969 major, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, amit.gupta, In Discussion , Report Name should be mandatory for saved reports
12:55 oleonard Good enough, or needs more work?
12:57 cait hm i think a good first step - i'd take that and do a separate bug for more screw tigthening
12:57 cait :)
13:01 tcohen joined #koha
13:03 cait oleonard: commented
13:03 meliss joined #koha
13:03 oleonard Thanks cait
13:03 cait yw
13:04 meliss left #koha
13:04 meliss joined #koha
13:04 dani joined #koha
13:10 magnuse oleonard++ cait++
13:10 cait hm?
13:10 druthb cait++
13:11 oleonard Yes, us++ for being awake!
13:11 druthb oleonard++
13:13 * cait hides
13:14 magnuse for moving bugs along, one comment at a time :-)
13:15 nengard left #koha
13:41 maximep joined #koha
13:41 tcohen joined #koha
13:41 tcohen morning #koha
13:46 cait morning tcohen
13:53 Oak joined #koha
13:55 cait joined #koha
14:00 Joubu thanks oleonard for the followup on bug 10858
14:00 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10858 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Browse selected biblios
14:00 oleonard You're welcome
14:07 oleonard Bug 10951 is a good idea, but it would have been nice to implement it in a Koha News kind of way, with different values for different languages
14:07 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10951 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, philippe.blouin, ASSIGNED , Make the NoLoginInstructions a customizable field through preferences
14:08 cait oleonard: true for every new preference like that
14:08 cait i like that they kept the translatable standard message in the template
14:08 cait i think it looks like noone is going to implement it as 'news' currently :(
14:09 * oleonard would do it if he were smart that way
14:09 cait similar problem here
14:09 rambutan joined #koha
14:15 cait1 joined #koha
14:16 oleonard Maybe cait1 knows how to do it. She's the latest version!
14:16 Oak i was about to say a similar thing
14:16 cait1 i have 3 big building sites in the neighboorhood
14:16 cait1 and my interent is down :(
14:16 cait1 ...
14:16 cait1 back using umts
14:18 tcohen i cait1
14:18 tcohen s/^i/hi/
14:18 Oak aye aye cait1
14:21 Oak it should be "run forrest run"
14:21 Oak double r
14:24 Topic for #koha is now QA sprint, run Forrest run! |[…]-library-software
14:24 oleonard Let it not be said I didn't get anything done today.
14:27 oleonard Joubu: I think it's odd that msaby and I both got the same error testing Bug 10857 (an error I've never gotten before) but I will retest today.
14:27 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10857 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Add facets cancellation
14:29 Joubu oleonard: yes, but I think the jajm's patch will definitly fix the issue
14:32 mcooper joined #koha
14:34 slef @marc 245 b
14:34 huginn slef: Remainder of title
14:34 slef @marc 245
14:34 huginn slef: The title and statement of responsibility area of the bibliographic description of a work. [a,b,c,f,g,h,k,n,p,s,6,8]
14:34 slef wahanui: MARC?
14:34 wahanui MARC is probably the standard that isn't
14:34 slef wahanui: MARC21?
14:34 wahanui i heard MARC21 was at[…]hic/ecbdlist.html ,
14:39 cait joined #koha
14:39 alaquerre joined #koha
14:47 alaquerre Hi all, question for everyone : Is there a way in Koha to work with Alfresco ?  The goal we have here is to put pdf and word document inside Alfresco.  After that, if we query Koha, we would like to get result from Alfresco ?  Possible ?
14:47 cait not without catalouging something in Koha
14:48 slef or configuring pazpar2?
14:48 cait maybe
14:48 cait there is a patch from Jesse to have external z39.50 targets but it's currently stuck
14:48 cait waiting for rebase
14:48 slef does Alfresco speak z39.50 or similar
14:48 slef ?
14:48 cait I would be surprised :(
14:48 alaquerre I can't tell
14:48 slef Does anyone know why does fieldmapping.sql only exist in uk-UA and ru-RU?
14:49 cait slef: no, but they have done some things different than others
14:49 cait what is in the file?
14:49 cait slef: actually i wanted to ask you about a bug when you showed up
14:49 nengard joined #koha
14:50 slef sets up subtitle in two frameworks
14:50 cait slef: ah, no i don't think the other languages have that
14:50 slef cait: you can try but I have no spare koha time until 1 Oct ;-)
14:50 slef @query subtitle
14:50 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4166 normal, P5 - low, ---, henridamien, NEW , No way to know what keywords to use for Keyword Mapping
14:50 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8265 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Allow a better form of the title to be included in notices
14:50 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6016 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Keyword Mapping Should Work with XSLT turned on
14:50 cait that's ok
14:50 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7074 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , keyword mapping on checkin and checkout screen
14:50 cait just need an info
14:50 huginn slef: Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10383 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , printable version of bib record doesn't include subtitle in staff client
14:51 cait slef: bug 7716
14:51 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7716 enhancement, P3, ---, mjr, ASSIGNED , Statistical/analytic item type
14:51 cait you marked it sponsored,so I wondered if there was something i could start from already if I tried to do something like that :)
14:52 slef oh yeah
14:52 cait I'd really like to have that for our ILL workflow and copies of articles the user gets to keep
14:52 cait obviously such a thing wouldn'tmake it into 3.14
14:52 alaquerre left #koha
14:52 cait but i'd like to start sometime soon after the release
14:52 slef There's wip/bug_7716 on the server I'm working on right now.
14:53 cait can you give me a link?
14:53 cait and would it be ok to take a look? keeping your work intact of course
14:53 slef Sadly not but If you can remind me the send-email command, I'll send it across.
14:53 ebegin joined #koha
14:53 slef or if it's published, I can rebase and git bz it
14:53 cait do you meant git send-email -f um commit or something like that?
14:53 slef but if it isn't there may be a reason
14:54 slef so I'd need to check what we did wrong :-/
14:54 slef (client data leak, usually)
14:54 cait oh
14:54 cait hm
14:54 cait well if you could put it somewhere on your list it would be nice
14:54 slef if it leaks, I'll send it to you because I trust you
14:54 cait aww
14:54 slef but I won't publish it
14:54 cait what do you mean by client data leak?
14:55 slef it hardcodes some aspect of the sponsoring library
14:55 slef I'm forever trying to avoid them, but sometimes they still sneak through.
14:55 cait ah ok, hm problematic
14:56 slef Sometimes I even create them when I need a particular value or behaviour and I've no way for koha to do it yet.
14:57 cait hm we will have to take that out then I think - before anything could go on bugzilla
14:57 slef yeah but it should give you a start
14:57 cait that would be cool
14:59 slef OK it's been a while. When filing a new bug, do I click "New Case" or "New Run"?
14:59 oleonard Wow, I am quite consistently crashing Firefox by clicking a link in OPAC search results. I wonder what the trick is?
15:00 slef wahanui: bug reporting guidelines?
15:00 wahanui wish i knew, slef
15:00 slef wahanui: bug reporting?
15:00 wahanui rumour has it bug reporting is explained at[…]orting_Guidelines
15:00 slef Choose "Enter a new bug"
15:00 cait slef: neither, new  abit above
15:00 cait yep that one :)
15:00 slef errr, where's that then?
15:00 cait the other is a plugin ... i have no idea still what it does
15:00 cait rangi and gmcharlt were testing something
15:01 cait slef: first row of links: Home | New
15:01 * slef tries "File a bug" on the home page, muttering about incorrect docs and the need to redirect his openID to something that still works
15:01 gmcharlt cait: slef: testopia -- an add-on to allow test cases to be written and linked to bugs
15:02 gmcharlt a few have been written, but I've not had much time to take the experiment further
15:02 cait gmcharlt: i tried playin with it, but i was not able to figure out how it would work
15:02 cait gmcharlt: can you point to an example?
15:03 cait gmcharlt: it's all empty for me when i open it and go through the tabs and tree structure
15:03 alex_a joined #koha
15:07 slef Bug 6716
15:07 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6716 enhancement, P3, ---, nengard, RESOLVED FIXED, Database Documentation
15:07 slef The attachment you are attempting to access has been removed.
15:07 slef yay
15:07 slef oh I'll do git log --grep=...
15:08 slef Bug 10953 has been added to the database
15:08 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10953 minor, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Missing subtitle fieldmapping unless you use ru-RU or uk-UA
15:09 tcohen joined #koha
15:11 cait slef: what's the problem with the file? :)
15:11 cait the mapping is a default feature
15:12 cait so we could provide a sample file, but there it should not cause you any problems if you miss the configuration
15:12 cait and i think it only works without xslt
15:23 gmcharlt cait: here's an example[…]ase.cgi?case_id=1
15:23 cait i am not uathorized :(
15:24 cait You are not authorized to view case 1
15:24 gmcharlt ah, that would be a problem :)
15:24 mtompset joined #koha
15:24 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
15:24 rambutan hi mtompset
15:25 mtompset Greetings, rambutan.
15:26 gmcharlt cait: OK, please try again
15:26 slef cait: there is no file
15:27 slef cait: xslt transforms marcxml IIRC so sidesteps the issue, but as long as Normal View is default, I think we should make it easier to show subtitles
15:27 cait slef: that's ok - maybe we should change the default tho at some point
15:27 cait hm maybe we did
15:28 cait gmcharlt: can access now
15:28 cait but have to run to the post office
15:28 cait will take a closer look a little later
15:43 oleonard Who wants to try to crash Firefox? Do a keyword search, click on one of the results. Click the author link on the detail page to perform an author search. Click a facet in the author search results. Click a title on the resulting search results.
15:43 * slef does that
15:43 * cait grumps
15:43 cait they are on vacation
15:43 slef the post office?
15:44 cait and i have this huge package i can barely carry
15:44 oleonard Trying it in Chrome doesn't result in a crash but the page has been endlessly loading.
15:44 cait that needs to get sent back today or tomorrow
15:44 slef oleonard: no crash, but I think I may be endlessly loading.
15:44 cait slef: not german post... but the shop where i need to bring the package to that was in walking distance
15:44 slef oleonard: I think I just did two subject searches in a while.
15:44 slef aieee server down
15:45 cait that is so annoying.
15:46 slef not down, just slow
15:46 slef mysqld hogging
15:47 * slef tries it again
15:47 slef ok, now it's working... the mysqld slowdown may have been unrelated
15:47 slef oleonard: sorry, worksforme in 3.10 (I think)
15:50 rambutan facet?
15:50 slef rambutan: I think he means the "Refine your search" bit on the left
15:51 slef BICBW
15:52 kivilahtio__ Phew! Just generalized the UseLibraryTransferLimits to limit holds as well.
15:53 oleonard Works for me in 3.10 too
15:53 oleonard But not in master
15:53 kivilahtio__ 6h, not bad considering this is my first modification test thingy
15:53 kivilahtio__ +some debugging time
15:53 kivilahtio__ I mean time to properly configure the CGI debugging tools
15:54 * cait arranged that it will be picked up on saturday - yay
15:54 rambutan oleonard: I'm clearly not doing things right, but it works for me
15:54 oleonard rambutan: In master?
15:54 cait ok gone again :)
15:54 rambutan ah, no
15:56 cait kivilahtio__: make sure you file a bug and give back your modifications
15:56 cait kivilahtio__: being stuck on highly modified koha is evil :)
15:57 oleonard Facets. Facets facets facets. @query facets
15:57 oleonard @query facets
15:57 huginn oleonard: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1964 normal, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Facetted searching should change search box
15:57 huginn oleonard: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9361 normal, P4, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , MARC 610 and 611 fields in bulk imports are not linked to authorities
15:57 huginn oleonard: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3451 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , No facets for tags search
15:57 huginn oleonard: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5993 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , tags not searchable
15:57 huginn oleonard: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8026 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Facets code should allow to build facets on controlfields
15:58 oleonard Yes, I'm pretty sure facets are a thing.
16:11 laurence left #koha
16:15 oleonard joined #koha
16:24 oleonard I was hoping Bug 10952 would cure that crash, but no.
16:24 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10952 major, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , Store anonymous search history in session
16:32 oleonard Happens with search history disabled and with browse results disabled.
16:36 mtompset Okay... more progress. Need to figure out how to trigger baskets.
16:45 meliss joined #koha
16:45 NateC joined #koha
16:45 tweetbot_ joined #koha
16:45 jajm joined #koha
16:45 moodaepo1 joined #koha
16:45 senator joined #koha
16:45 clrh joined #koha
16:51 mtompset SPLIT!
16:51 mtompset YAY! I figured out how to trigger the
17:11 tcohen joined #koha
17:24 magnuse druthb!
17:24 druthb magnuse!
17:24 wahanui magnuse is a Norwegian giant.
17:26 tcohen joined #koha
17:28 mtompset Greetings, tcohen druthb magnuse, etc. :)
17:28 magnuse hiya mtompset
17:29 druthb hi, mtompset! :)
17:29 druthb wahanui:  mtompset?
17:29 wahanui mtompset is fighting a test writing learning curve to get code in before feature slush.
17:29 mtompset Close.
17:30 mtompset Testing a patch like crazy in hopes that it makes feature freeze.
17:36 magnuse mtompset++
17:36 mtompset Thanks, magnuse. :)
17:56 * mtompset sighs.
17:56 mtompset What is recommended if the behaviour handling is poor for bad data cases?
17:56 mtompset Signoff and note bad cases?
17:56 cait if something bad happens
17:57 mtompset Not signoff, and note bad cases?
17:57 cait you should note it
17:57 cait it always depends, i  don't know what you've found
17:57 cait but trying to break the feature with wrong input should always be part of the testing
17:57 mtompset The page allows for uploading files.
17:57 mtompset Well, if you don't specify where, and click submit, it still uploads the file, but gives and error.
17:58 cait a perl error?
17:58 wahanui a perl error is not realted to that feature
17:58 mtompset It shouldn't upload at all in that case.
17:58 mtompset no, an "We didn't like this" type error which is programmed.
17:58 cait it does sound probleamtic yes
17:58 cait but if it still uploads and does state it didn't... that's problematic
17:59 mtompset exactly.
17:59 mtompset it uploads, but the error makes it sound like it failed.
17:59 mtompset so when you try again... it fails again.
17:59 mtompset and you are forced to read the error logs to determine why.
17:59 cait is there any security measure about what kind of files you can uplaod?
17:59 cait where are they saved to?
18:00 mtompset You can upload ANYTHING that is a file.
18:00 mtompset though, I suspect large files may time out (haven't gotten there yet)
18:00 cait ahum.
18:00 cait where does it end up?
18:00 mtompset as for where.
18:00 mtompset you configure that in the koha-conf.xml
18:01 mtompset and you can create sub-directories from within that directory to allow for grouping.
18:01 mtompset There is no way to get it to write outside those directories as far as I can tell.
18:02 tcohen cait: this is wrong, right?
18:02 tcohen the ' -- ' after 'by'
18:02 meliss joined #koha
18:03 cait hm that's non xslt I think?
18:03 tcohen no, that's XSLT
18:03 cait for UNIMARC?
18:03 tcohen MARC21
18:03 cait oh
18:03 cait then it looks weird
18:03 jcamins tcohen: it's for corporate authors.
18:03 tcohen the register only has 710$a and 710$b
18:04 tcohen i'm fixing bug 10957
18:04 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10957 trivial, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , 710$a with 710$b (subordinate unit) present shows wrong (XSLT)
18:04 jcamins I don't remember why, but there was a reason that corporate authors are introduced with double dashes.
18:04 tcohen oh, it is intended then
18:04 tcohen not a visualizatio bug
18:04 jcamins Yeah, but I wouldn't have any objection to removing it.
18:04 * cait looks up train connections to and from the airport :)
18:06 tcohen should i add dot at the end?
18:07 * mtompset smirks, "-- . $$!"
18:07 mtompset Librarians have their own formatting quirkiness.
18:07 cait oh please no dots
18:07 cait people here tell me they look silly
18:08 jcamins What cait is saying is that libraries are already dotty.
18:11 magnuse too true! :-)
18:11 magnuse anyone else had trouble opening the value builders in the cataloguing screen in internet explorer?
18:11 magnuse ie--
18:11 cait not yet, but i haven't tried
18:12 mtompset Oh... good testing idea.
18:12 cait i think it was ok in the training i did
18:13 mtompset Oh right... I need cookies.
18:14 jcamins magnuse: works fine in IE10.
18:14 jcamins Ugh.
18:14 jcamins How did I end up with IE10?
18:14 * jcamins goes questing for older versions.
18:15 magnuse jcamins, cait: thanks. it could possibly be that normarc does things differently than marc21 - i have not kept up to date with some changes that were done for marc21 (and probably unimarc)...
18:15 jcamins Here's IE8. I shall try.
18:15 oleonard IE10 is sneaky
18:15 jcamins Works in IE8.
18:17 magnuse thanks jcamins
18:17 oleonard I'm perplexed by this, so I'll ask again: Is anyone else seeing collection codes listed under Item type search facets?
18:17 * magnuse wanders off
18:17 cait sorry, can't test righ tnow
18:17 jcamins oleonard: nopes.
18:17 jcamins s/s//
18:18 mtompset -- . :P
18:18 oleonard Anyone have any suggestions for where I might look to confirm that I have wonky data causing this?
18:19 mtompset Oops... I wonder.
18:19 mtompset @karma mtompset
18:19 huginn mtompset: Karma for "mtompset" has been increased 38 times and decreased 3 times for a total karma of 35.
18:20 oleonard Looking at the patch on Bug 4255 it looks like it looks for 952y and 942c?
18:20 mtompset Okay... whew. Didn't accidentally -- myself. :)
18:20 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4255 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, meenakshi.r, RESOLVED FIXED, Add item type to facet list
18:23 oleonard Clicking on one of these collection code facets breaks the functionality of Bug 10857 so I'd like to confirm that it's a data problem
18:23 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10857 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Add facets cancellation
18:24 tcohen bug 10957, attached the patch
18:24 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10957 trivial, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , 710$a with 710$b (subordinate unit) present shows wrong (XSLT)
18:27 cait oleonard: check the item information for the result list?
18:28 oleonard I've queried the database for items with invalid itemtypes/ccodes and come up empty.
18:32 reiveune left #koha
18:34 cait hm
18:34 cait oleonard: full reindex?
18:34 cait it looks at the zebra data i think
18:34 oleonard I think I found it
18:36 oleonard I'm finding collection codes in 942a
18:36 cait oh
18:36 mtompset cait: Is that last comment friendlier testing steps on bug 6874?
18:36 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , File upload in MARC
18:37 cait mtompset: yes
18:37 cait where is your problem description?
18:37 cait ah i see
18:38 cait the issues note :)
18:38 sophie_m left #koha
18:39 mtompset ccodes? Did someone say ccodes?
18:39 mtompset I was noticing a warning in the error logs related to ccodes last night.
18:44 oleonard So, hooray. We have junky data. What else is new I guess.
18:44 oleonard Being a pioneer of Koha adoption carries some risk of cruft I think
18:45 jcamins Being a library carries some risk of cruft.
18:45 * cait hands oleonard cookies
18:45 jcamins Cookies. Yum.
18:45 jcamins What kind of cookies should I make?
18:46 mtompset Junky data is good. It means it isn't your fault, unless you do the cataloguing. :)
18:47 mtompset Oooo... cookie ideas... let me see.. I should send you a page suggestion on facebook.
18:51 rambutan joined #koha
18:53 rambutan yea, I intend to do that
18:54 rambutan cait; well, I think you'd need to show up here once a week or so
18:54 cait that oculd be difficult then
18:54 cait too bad :)
18:54 rambutan oleonard: ah, no, but she's very supportive of open source in general and Koha and IT (me)
18:55 rambutan @seen wizzyrea
18:55 huginn rambutan: wizzyrea was last seen in #koha 15 hours and 36 seconds ago: <wizzyrea> I think I could happily argue about this with you all day
18:55 * oleonard doesn't like the job description in that case
18:55 cait @wunder Konstanz
18:55 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 15.8°C (8:55 PM CEST on September 26, 2013). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 92%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Steady).
19:03 mtompset Have a great day (24 hour period), #koha.
19:07 oleonard Sure, he says that. But then just 12 hours later he's back as if he didn't trust us to make it 24 hours.
19:08 cait heh
19:08 * cait is torturing druthb with her travel preparations
19:08 cait druthb++
19:09 druthb :P
19:09 oleonard For Reno?
19:10 druthb yah.
19:10 oleonard Poor druthb (and jcamins!), getting there so late
19:10 druthb also, flying in the US is so unlike the rest of the known universe...
19:10 oleonard A whole day of kohacon without you
19:11 oleonard rangi paul_p and cait are going to be like Reno natives by the time the rest of us arrive
19:12 jcamins curried coconut oatmeal chocolate chip cookies?
19:12 wahanui curried coconut oatmeal chocolate chip cookies are at[…]ate-chip-cookies/
19:13 oleonard @later tell wizzyrea Something is going wrong with the responsive demo
19:13 huginn oleonard: The operation succeeded.
19:13 oleonard druthb: You still planning to drive?
19:16 cait oleonard: i hope to get there without a day of delay this time
19:16 cait but at least i am prepared for that!
19:19 druthb oleonard:  nope.  flyin' in.
19:25 oleonard Can I use mysql to search for records with an invalid value in 942c?
19:25 jcamins oleonard: yeah, but not easily.
19:26 jcamins Actually, that's not true. It's easy.
19:26 jcamins What I meant was, do it when the library's not too busy.
19:29 * oleonard is all eyeballs
19:31 jcamins SELECT biblionumber FROM biblioitems WHERE ExtractValue(marcxml,'//datafield[​@tag="942"]/subfield[@code="c"]') IN (SELECT itemtype FROM itemtypes);
19:34 oleonard Thanks jcamins
20:03 * wizzyrea made it in before oleonard left
20:03 wizzyrea this is amazing
20:03 ebegin Sorry for the spam on the bugs mailing list. We are experimenting the commit process for our development.
20:03 oleonard Hi wizzyrea
20:04 oleonard I've been slack this week, left early every day until today
20:04 wizzyrea :)
20:04 * jcamins contemplates sweet potato pie.
20:04 wizzyrea mmm that would be yummy
20:05 wizzyrea oleonard: looking at it now
20:05 ebegin We are commiting the "I forget my password" features. I'm sure a lot of libraries are waiting for this ;)
20:06 wizzyrea yep definitely
20:07 cait ebegin: yep - that's nice!
20:21 rambutan joined #koha
20:27 rambutan @seen wizzyrea
20:27 huginn rambutan: wizzyrea was last seen in #koha 21 minutes and 2 seconds ago: <wizzyrea> yep definitely
20:27 wizzyrea hi
20:27 wizzyrea sup
20:27 wizzyrea (yes, I know, I'm working on it
20:34 * gmcharlt wonders how many folks use the patches list nowadays
20:35 jcamins gmcharlt: not so many.
20:35 cait oleonard mostly :)
20:35 bgkriegel joined #koha
20:35 jcamins tcohen also.
20:49 mtompset joined #koha
20:49 magnuse have fun, #koha!
20:49 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
20:49 mtompset Bye, magnuse? :)
20:49 nengard left #koha
20:50 magnuse see ya mtompset
20:50 mtompset gmcharlt: I have a question about the idea of using jquery to re-write text.
20:50 mtompset That doesn't translate, does it?
20:51 jcamins mtompset: not with a single line.
20:51 gmcharlt depends on one's jQuery
20:51 mtompset So it is possible to write the jquery to detect the language and generate output accordingly?
20:51 jcamins Yeah.
20:52 cait mtompset: what are yo utrying to do?
20:52 mtompset not trying to do anything.
20:52 mtompset I'm thinking about bug 10951 that the new guy posted about.
20:52 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10951 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, philippe.blouin, Needs Signoff , Make the NoLoginInstructions a customizable field through preferences
20:53 cait hm but that's not done using javascript
20:53 cait but i use javascript to have multiple languages now, would love for a better solution
20:54 cait system preferences are lmited, something like the news system would be better suited for our various customizable areas
20:54 mtompset I know. gmcharlt was suggesting jquery would be better for that scenario.
20:54 cait mtompset: i think i am confused.
20:54 gmcharlt better the jQuery than a new, limited-purpose syspref
20:55 jcamins The jQuery is more translatable, if that's your question.
20:55 mtompset true. sysprefs are dynamic like jquery.
20:55 cait gmcharlt: hm not sure here - i like the way that is done- they keep the old message in the templates and only overwrite it
20:55 mtompset aern't.
20:55 cait seems not fair to require them to write a new translatable system i guess
20:55 gmcharlt cait: and add yet another syspref when the existing ones can suffice
20:55 cait and javascript is still pretty limited and might cause problems
20:56 * gmcharlt is not a member of the syspref all the things club -- I really do think that we have a responsibility to not over-proliferate them
20:56 cait i think all the html prefs should go into a different tool ultimately
20:56 gmcharlt I agree with that
20:56 cait but in terms of accessibility and such i like not depending on jquery where i can avoid it
20:57 gmcharlt well, there is an alternative mechanism already in place for that
20:57 gmcharlt use the translation system + custom PO files to manage tweaks
20:57 cait gmcharlt: custom po files won#t work for english easily
20:57 cait and they are a PITA to maintain
20:58 cait well in my experience that is, there is a place for htem
20:58 cait but yo uwould have to do 2
20:58 cait a special english one
20:58 cait and another for every language you want to have
20:59 cait having a differnet english one could make you run into some of the problems we have because you can't really define a standard language and browser detection and all that
20:59 cait not sure how doable that is
20:59 mtompset Sorry... didn't mean to bring up the whole translation mess.
20:59 cait for the login message you'd need one for each library
20:59 cait maybe i misunderstand tho. hm.
21:00 gmcharlt a new syspref by itself doesn't help any of that
21:00 * gmcharlt is not disputing that there are pleny of ways that the translation system could be improved and made more usable
21:00 cait it's actually not that bad :)
21:00 gmcharlt and, for the matter, easier to use as an alternative mechanism for customiizing strings
21:00 cait but i think it's not right to misuse it for customizing
21:02 cait translations are translations, but if you want it to say differently for every library i thik customizable areas that a library can edit easily are better
21:02 mtompset misuse jquery's for customizing?
21:02 cait misuse pos
21:02 * cait is not sure how she ended up argueing wth gmcharlt
21:03 gmcharlt cait: we *are* allowed to have differences of opinion :)
21:03 cait I am not sure i like it :)
21:03 gmcharlt from my POV, the translation system can be viewed as a general-purpose string repliacement tool
21:03 cait i think it's not well suited for that
21:03 mtompset YAY! Another person who understands differences of opinion does not preclude civility and friendship. :)
21:03 cait you have to run jobs on the server
21:04 cait and when you run and maintain lots of very different libraries...
21:04 gmcharlt hence the possiblity of it taking care of translations -- but I do recognize that there would be operational difficulties every time one upgraded
21:04 cait and there is lots of translation work to do, yes
21:04 cait i can only imagine it a nightmare
21:04 cait it already often is
21:04 cait fixing all the typos one missed
21:05 cait and doing that for every and each po file for every library you changed something like a login message...
21:05 cait especially the login message is a good example - because every library has different default passwords and instructions how to type in the numbers printed on the student id card or whatever
21:05 cait i actually wanted that to be customizable for a longer time now :)
21:06 cait i even pondered doing that syspref :)
21:06 mtompset Well, the bug still needs a couple tweaks (as I pointed out in my comment).
21:06 * gmcharlt has a customer who has but a single library, but 5-6 translation active
21:06 gmcharlt that's one thing informing my POV on this
21:07 mtompset True, a syspref would not solve that problem.
21:07 cait gmcharlt: we always offer english and gemran, but we have one with 4 languages active
21:07 mtompset But for libraries with a single language interface, a syspref works just fine.
21:08 cait and I maintain my own po files for the manuscript library we  have
21:09 cait but i am not sure i get the point hm.
21:11 gmcharlt cait: point being that a syspref doesn't currently have any way to specify multiple translations of its value
21:12 gmcharlt though that would be an ability well worth teaching the syspref sytem
21:12 cait gmcharlt: either that or take it out into a tool
21:12 cait there are lots of things that don't translate into multiple languages sadly
21:13 cait itemtype descriptions, authorised value descriptions...
21:13 cait everything that is visible in the opac owuld be nice to have
21:13 gmcharlt yeah, one of the things marcelr has been poking at would help solve that problem
21:13 cait hm?
21:14 gmcharlt a mechanism for storing, in the database, translations for strings that are also stored in the database
21:14 gmcharlt so that you could say, here's my library name in en-NZ, and in de-DE, and in fr-FR, etc.
21:15 cait hm i haven't had time yet to take a look at his work for the sample installer files
21:15 cait which is a pity
21:15 cait but yes, something like that
21:16 cait a way to specify your standard language for fallbacks, and a way to store translations for strings noting which language they are
21:16 cait things like that
21:16 gmcharlt yeah
21:17 cait hope druthb_away  listens in ... I think she gives a presentation about that at kohacon ;)
21:17 cait well about translation problems i think
21:17 cait hm it's late, i should finish this - brb
21:21 ebegin joined #koha
21:21 cait gmcharlt: another thought maybe why i am not so happy with jquery - many of my coworkers are using plugins turning off any javascript they don't explicitly allow on websites
21:21 cait the message would never be visible in that case - or very hard to spot
21:22 cait so with a pref i can at least show the german message always - and toggle the english one using jquery
21:22 cait not perfect... but a little better
21:24 gmcharlt yeah, I can see that -- but where would it end?  that argument would justify making a syspref of just about every distinct bit of text that a library might wish to customize
21:24 gmcharlt not that anybody would seriously propose that of course
21:28 cait nope :)
21:29 cait just saying that bit proposed here is one we evenallowed to customize in our horizon opacs
21:29 cait i was all against changing the name of the cart by syspref some time ago
21:29 cait ok, now really gone for a bit - i haven't even had dinner tonight yet
21:30 gmcharlt yeah, it runs into the question of wishing that all of the effort on tackling individual aspects of the same problem were concentrated into a buidling a broader solution
21:33 wizzyrea broader_solutions++
21:40 cait gmcharlt: hm I think we can agree on that :)
22:19 trea joined #koha
22:22 bgkriegel2 joined #koha
22:27 eythian hi
22:28 eythian wahanui: it works is <reply>But it also eats babies.
22:28 wahanui OK, eythian.
22:28 cait lol
22:28 eythian wahanui: it works is also <reply>However, now everything else is broken.
22:28 wahanui okay, eythian.
22:28 eythian wahanui: it works is also <reply>For now...
22:28 wahanui okay, eythian.
22:28 eythian wahanui: it works is also <reply>You should blog about it.
22:28 wahanui okay, eythian.
22:29 eythian wahanui: literal it works
22:29 wahanui eythian: it works =is= <reply>But it also eats babies.|<reply>However, now everything else is broken.|<reply>For now...|<reply>You should blog about it.
22:29 gmcharlt wahanui: it works is also <reply>But now the Universe has disappeared
22:29 wahanui okay, gmcharlt.
22:31 kathryn joined #koha
22:35 rambutan it works?
22:35 wahanui But now the Universe has disappeared
22:35 rambutan it works?
22:35 wahanui You should blog about it.
22:36 wizzyrea rofl.
22:36 eythian In wizzyrea's case, it should be FOSBL (Falling Off Swiss Ball Laughing)
22:36 wizzyrea ^^ this
22:37 wizzyrea well I suppose, technically when I'm at work, I am always rolling on the floor by way of a swiss ball.
22:37 jcamins I guess I should be using that too.
22:43 maximep left #koha
22:53 papa joined #koha
23:04 trea it works!
23:04 wahanui But now the Universe has disappeared
23:05 * trea claps excitedly for wahanui
23:06 wizzyrea !
23:11 cait it works!
23:11 wahanui But now the Universe has disappeared
23:41 irma1 left #koha
23:59 dcook joined #koha

| Channels | #koha index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | plain, newest first | summary