Time Nick Message 00:00 FORMAL lol 00:16 * wizzyrea pats wahanui 00:16 wizzyrea it's ok lil buddy, he didn't mean it. 00:17 wizzyrea can you link us to the place in the log? 00:18 wizzyrea oh nm I missed that he had gone. 00:18 wizzyrea quant finance! quant finance! 00:18 * wizzyrea suspects someone was talking about quaint finance practices in libraries and spelled it wrong. 00:19 * jcamins theorizes that maybe "MARC" means something to quants. 00:19 jcamins wizzyrea: actually, that's a better guess. 00:19 jcamins Way better. 00:24 rangi or speaking french 00:24 rangi Comete, pierrick: bah elle est inquiète par rapport au témoignage de l'école des mines quant à leur migration 00:24 jcamins rangi: or that. 00:24 dcook Mmm 00:46 eythian https://www.usenix.org/system/files/1309_14-17_mickens.pdf 00:50 mtompset What does that have to do with anything, eythian? 00:50 eythian it's an entertaining look into the history of Intel's processor design process. 00:57 jcamins eythian: that was great. 01:07 eythian jcamins: it is, isn't it. 01:24 mtompset okay... if I'm installing a unimarc system... is grs or dom better (which will get me a working system without having to edit configuration files)? 01:26 jcamins GRS-1, there is no DOM configuration for UNIMARC. 01:27 mtompset Okay, that's good to know. 01:28 mtompset Does chr vs. icu make a difference if I'm grabbing data from Biblibre's demo system? 02:08 eythian wahanui: php 02:08 wahanui i think php is http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/ 02:09 eythian wahanui: php is also http://www.phpwtf.org/ 02:09 wahanui okay, eythian. 02:10 dcook Whoa... 02:14 jcamins I'm not sure that some of those are worthy of objection. 02:15 dcook ...that site is run on Drupal...which is written in PHP, no? 02:15 dcook Interesting.. 02:15 wahanui hmmm... interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad 02:15 dcook "This site was born out of a DrupalCon presentation to educate people of PHP's quirks. If you want to use this material to bash PHP you are in the wrong place." 02:16 dcook O_o 02:16 * dcook is confused 02:30 mtompset Isn't Frappat french slang for idiot? 02:31 dcook Not that I've ever heard but I'm not that familiar with French slang 02:32 mtompset I vaguely recall a story from my grade 10 french teacher saying that she was complaining about having to sleep with a fly swatter to someone in French, but the word for fly swatter was also used as slang for idiot. 02:33 mtompset Needless to say the person she was talking to was horrified to hear about her sleeping some one like that. 02:33 dcook ahhh 02:33 dcook Umm no 02:33 dcook I know what you're saying now 02:34 dcook Tapette 02:34 dcook But it's not slang for idiot 02:34 dcook It's a homophobic slang word 02:35 mtompset even more horrifying then. :) 02:35 dcook Much more 02:35 dcook Wait 02:35 dcook Horrifying word 02:35 mtompset yes. 02:35 mtompset My french teacher was straight as far as I knew. 02:36 mtompset Mixing up gender identity is horrifying too. 02:37 dcook I'm not entirely sure how to take your meaning, mtompset. 02:37 dcook My meaning is that tapette is a horrible slang word that no one should ever apply to another person. 02:38 dcook As one's sexual preferences are really no business of anyone else's. 02:39 mtompset yes, I was referring to the secondary related idea that suggesting someone is attracted to a particular gender when they are not is horrifying. 02:39 johnbljr Trying to quickly add books and wondering how I can add more frameworks - all I have listed is default and fast add...I still need to go in and choose Book...any suggestions on adding some more default ones? Are there any premade that I can just load in? 02:40 jcamins frameworks? 02:40 wahanui frameworks are a big topic 02:40 jcamins marc frameworks? 02:40 wahanui marc frameworks is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/MARC_frameworks 02:40 jcamins ^^ there are a few there 02:40 dcook While I personally wouldn't find that horrifying, I understand that someone else might and that is certainly their right to think that way (even if I might think it's a misguided way of thinking). 02:40 jcamins FWIW, I only ever use default and fast add. 02:40 dcook But that's my last word on that one, mtompset. I'm more than happy to drop the topic. 02:40 johnbljr Thanks. 02:40 mtompset dcook: Yes, let's. terrible scenario. 02:41 jcamins In fact, I strongly encourage my libraries not to use any of the other frameworks. 02:41 * mtompset cheers. 02:41 mtompset On a positive note. I have a Unimarc installation now. :) 02:41 dcook Sweet. I should set one up one of these days... 02:42 dcook Default and fastadd are usually the ones I advocate as well 02:42 mtompset Default? 02:42 wahanui somebody said Default was ports for those who dont have access/skills to run dns 02:43 mtompset Why wouldn't you use a particular framework (like BKS, etc.)? Why just Default? 02:43 jcamins mtompset: because the frameworks that come suggested with Koha are all lacking fields and provide no added value. 02:45 mtompset What if you have all of the frameworks (BKS, etc.) updated to not lack fields, etc.? What would motivate the use of Default over the others? 02:45 jcamins If you've done that then all the frameworks are identical. 02:45 dcook ^^ 02:46 mtompset So, books would require entering the same meta-data as videos? 02:46 jcamins (and you have therefore wasted a lot of your time) 02:47 jcamins More or less. 02:47 jcamins There are a handful of fields that are format-specific, but there are far more fields that aren't. 02:47 mtompset So, does Default have all the fields? 02:47 jcamins Nearly. 02:48 jcamins I think there's a patch adding the last few missing. 02:56 mtompset okay... I'm testing a patch, and I think there's a file that is whack... how do I cherry pick from origin/master a particular file? 03:00 jcamins Find the file you want and copy it to where you want it to go. 03:02 eythian or something like git checkout -- origin/master:path/to/file 03:02 eythian might not be exactly that, but it's similar 03:02 jcamins eythian: doesn't that hide the diff, though? 03:03 mtompset I don't want the diff. 03:03 mtompset I want the original file before the patch. 03:03 eythian oh 03:03 eythian git reset path/to/file perhaps then 03:04 eythian or maybe it's checkout 03:04 eythian This stuff I usually look up. 03:04 dcook git checkout -- path/to/file perhaps? 03:04 mtompset That didn't work dcook. 03:04 mtompset I did look at the git diff, and figured out the problem. 03:04 mtompset But it would be really handy to know how to go, "I want the origin/master version of this file and start from scratch." 03:06 eythian reset should do it 03:06 mtompset you can reset an individual file? 03:06 mtompset Okay, that's useful to know. 03:09 eythian yeah, pretty sure you can 03:09 wizzyrea i usually just git checkout 03:09 eythian mtompset: also, you should look into using the patch review thing on bugzilla 03:09 wizzyrea git checkout file.name 03:09 wizzyrea might not work with a patch though 03:09 eythian I think checkout is probably better in this case. 03:09 wizzyrea it will if you've done stuff but haven't committed it 03:10 eythian reset is mostly for undoing a git add when used on files. 03:10 wizzyrea "there's probably a flag for that (tm)" 03:10 eythian but you could make it change the content with --hard. 03:10 mtompset patch review thing on bugzilla? 03:10 wizzyrea true 03:11 eythian mtompset: yes 03:11 eythian you click 'review' beside the patch. 03:11 wizzyrea ohhh 03:11 wizzyrea git checkout master~2 file.name 03:12 wizzyrea check out the version of file.name from 2 commits back 03:13 wizzyrea mtompset++ for making me look at the git checkout man page. 03:14 eythian mtompset: you should use the review thing on bugzilla by reading the instructions :) you can comment on a particular line, which is what you wanted there I think. 03:16 mtompset :( The interface for it is not intuitive. 03:16 mtompset I'm not going to spam bugs list again. 03:17 eythian it isn't intuitive at all. 03:19 wizzyrea which bug? 03:20 mtompset I'm working on testing bug 6874 03:20 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , File upload in MARC 03:20 mtompset And I only found this problem as a result of trying to install a fresh install UNIMARC koha. 03:21 mtompset Thoroughness is a good thing! 03:22 mtompset Ah... there's a double click to review the line individually. 03:23 mtompset Okay... figured it is... mouse over tool tip doesn't always appear. 03:23 mtompset ^is^out^ 03:27 wizzyrea did the framework guy leave? 03:28 wizzyrea I was going to elucidate the reasons for having the other frameworks, from a practical point of view (i.e. for libraries that don't care about MARC completeness) 03:28 wizzyrea but if he's gone I won't bother. 03:29 mtompset I'll listen to you, wizzyrea. :) 03:29 mtompset I'm a library noob. :) 03:30 wizzyrea hehe 03:35 mtompset Because if you have a framework with every possible field/subfield... why would you need another one that doesn't? 03:36 eythian because that really clutters your display 03:36 eythian also makes it easy to miss one that you should have filled out, because you're skipping 90% of them anyway. 03:37 dcook Depending on what type of cataloguer you are :p 03:38 dcook And the item being catalogued 03:38 wizzyrea yea but not every library needs professional records. If they do, they don't do it themselves, they get the records from OCLC. 03:38 dcook True true 03:38 wizzyrea or another trusted source. 03:38 dcook Those usually benefit from the fast add framework then 03:38 wizzyrea I don't think it's really that easy. 03:39 dcook It's not always 03:39 eythian fast add is a different thing again really though 03:39 wizzyrea I have seen a very wide variety of uses for the frameworks 03:39 dcook I imagine some people do use the serials one 03:39 dcook Maybe a/v 03:39 wizzyrea and lots of our libraries use one "Articles" 03:40 dcook Mmm, right 03:40 dcook I think what jcamins wants to avoid by using different frameworks is the staleness of frameworks 03:40 * eythian wonders how this particular data has a coauthor with no author. 03:40 wizzyrea and yet more wanted to have a specific framework that put all the fields they always use on tab 0, and the optional ones on other tabs 03:41 dcook Ideally, it would be nice if there were one tag library and then each "framework" were a view of it 03:41 dcook Optional? 03:41 wahanui whatever jcamins forgets to check is optional. 03:41 mtompset Ooooh... yes. dcook. I like that. So all the tags are there, but the framework changes the view. 03:42 wizzyrea that was supposed to be the purpose, back in the day. XSLT kind of changed that 03:42 mtompset Then you wouldn't necessarily have to tab between 1XX, 2XX, etc. records. 03:42 wizzyrea and they do do that 03:42 dcook Not really 03:42 wizzyrea for the cataloging interface 03:43 dcook Each framework has its own tag library 03:43 mtompset tags to display, not actual tags. 03:43 dcook If your framework doesn't have a particular field showing, it gets nixed when you save 03:43 dcook Or if you need to add a field, you need to add it to all frameworks (or figure out the ones that probably shoudl have it) 03:44 mtompset Whatever... not like frameworks are going to change in the near future. :) 03:44 dcook true true 03:44 wizzyrea the thing where you have to add it to all of them if you want it is a pain. 03:44 wizzyrea and that editing interface is pants. 03:44 dcook It certainly is 03:44 wizzyrea way too many clicks. 03:45 dcook I accept the premise that you'd want different views for different purposes though. 03:45 mtompset That's a good premise, I think. 03:45 dcook I think older systems called them templates 03:45 dcook wizzyrea: way too many clicks 03:45 johnbljr the reason I did not have it was because my install used UNIMARC and not Marc21 03:45 * dcook misses the pure text interface of yore 03:46 wizzyrea ah a cataloguing purist. 03:46 dcook A cataloguing pragmatist :p 03:46 dcook You can catalogue way faster with that text interface 03:46 dcook You didn't need to touch the mouse 03:46 dcook I might have a touch of purity though, which is one reason I decided not to be a cataloguer :p 03:47 * dcook would rather offer cataloguing advice than obsess over "perfectly" descrbing a resource 03:47 wizzyrea there's a problem between the people who don't want to have climb the super steep learning curve of a text interface, vs the people who want to be able to just pick it up and go 03:48 wizzyrea rather the people who have slaved over their text interface for so long that they have a hard time with anything else 03:48 wizzyrea because yea, no mousing is fast 03:48 wizzyrea it's also harder to learn 03:48 dcook It is 03:48 eythian steep learning curves are good, because it means in a short time you learn a lot. It's the shallow ones that are bad because over a long time you learn very little. 03:48 dcook Ideally, it would be nice to have two interfaces 03:48 wizzyrea much harder to climb though ;) 03:48 dcook eythian: That's downright quoteable 03:49 dcook Initially learning to program: steep learning curve 03:49 eythian wizzyrea: no it isn't, because it takes you less time to do so. 03:49 dcook Trying to program well: way more shallow and difficult.. 03:49 * dcook agrees 03:49 dcook Anyway, got to go 03:49 wizzyrea lol I guess that depends on when you think you're done learning 03:49 wizzyrea and if there's ever an end 03:50 eythian not really, if it's a graph, it's best when it's steep. 03:50 dcook life-long learning of steep learning curves :p 03:50 dcook ok, really going now 03:50 eythian time on X, amount learned on Y 03:51 wizzyrea mm ok, if we're talking about a graph then yes. 03:52 wizzyrea if we are talking about effort expended though, no. 03:52 eythian then it wouldn't be a learning curve, it'd be an effort expended curve. 03:52 eythian curve is just a word for an often-monotonic graph after all. 03:54 wizzyrea I think I could happily argue about this with you all day 04:05 mtompset @quote add "eythian: steep learning curves are good, because it means in a short time you learn a lot. It's the shallow ones that are bad because over a long time you learn very little." 04:05 huginn mtompset: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command). 04:06 mtompset @quote add "eythian: steep learning curves are good, because it means in a short time you learn a lot. It's the shallow ones that are bad because over a long time you learn very little." 04:06 huginn mtompset: The operation succeeded. Quote #279 added. 04:06 mtompset @get quote 278 04:06 huginn mtompset: Error: The command "get" is available in the Dunno, Herald, Lart, Quote, and ReleaseDay plugins. Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "get". 04:06 wahanui i already had it that way, huginn. 04:06 mtompset @quote get 278 04:06 huginn mtompset: Quote #278: "jcamins: ... OMGOMGOMG MUST FIX ALL THE THINGS." (added by mtompset at 03:50 AM, September 17, 2013) 04:07 mtompset @quote random 04:07 huginn mtompset: Quote #119: "<wasabi> wow, and a pig!!! -> http://www.blainefranger.com/blog/uploaded_images/IMG_6368_nepali_food.jpg" (added by wasabi at 10:22 AM, January 27, 2011) 04:08 mtompset @quote random 04:08 huginn mtompset: Quote #214: "obelos: Perhaps this means it's time for HLT to choose a different name so we can all move on with our work without this distraction." (added by mtj at 01:52 AM, August 08, 2012) 04:08 mtompset @quote random 04:08 huginn mtompset: Quote #199: "chris_n: considering marc is scary to us, I can't imagine what it does to patrons." (added by wizzyrea at 02:24 PM, April 09, 2012) 04:08 wahanui i already had it that way, huginn. 04:08 mtompset considering marc? 04:08 wahanui considering marc is scarry to us, I can't imagine what it does to patrons 04:11 Oak kia ora #koha 04:13 mtompset Greetings, Oak! 04:13 mtompset Long time no chat. 04:13 * mtompset cheers, "Woo hoo! Triggered all the C4::Biblio changes in this patch." 04:16 Oak hello mtompset :) yes... lot of things going on here so no time to chat lately. 04:18 mtompset It doesn't help that my timezone has shifted. 04:18 mtompset I should be going to sleep shortly. 04:18 mtompset It's after midnight here. 04:18 Oak :) yeah 04:34 mtompset Have a great day (24 hour period), #koha dcook Oak wizzyrea eythian and anyone else I missed. :) 04:34 eythian oh hey, New Zealand now has access to google books 04:36 eythian ...although it says most of them aren't available, so who knows. 04:38 eythian oh, it required me to acknowledge the T&C before they became available. 05:34 johnbljr Anyone have a good tutorial on generating barcodes? 06:18 * magnuse waves 06:19 magnuse nudge nudge http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/60300/koha-open-source-library-software 06:28 magnuse @marc 571 06:28 huginn magnuse: unknown tag 571 06:38 marcelr hi #koha 06:43 wizzyrea_ sup 06:43 cjh yo 06:51 reiveune hello 07:01 magnuse hei! 07:02 * magnuse suspects stackexchange is not going to happen 07:04 marcelr hi magnuse 07:04 mtj heya magnuse, marcelr 07:04 marcelr hi mtj 07:05 mtj magnuse, yeah - we just cant accept having SE mods closing legitimate questions on our forum… :/ 07:06 magnuse yeah, that is a downer 07:06 mtj but, as others have recommend - discourse or shapado look good 07:08 mtj …we can run either of those on *our* server, without the threat of random moderators trashing the site ^^ 07:09 magnuse yay! anyone volunteering to install? 07:12 mtj afaik, not yet 07:13 magnuse ruby seems to be the cool kid on the block these days... 07:14 samueld hi everybody 07:27 magnuse @wunder boo 07:27 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 5.0°C (9:20 AM CEST on September 26, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 3.0°C. Windchill: 4.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady). 07:27 magnuse @wunder marseille 07:27 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Marseille, France is 20.0°C (9:00 AM CEST on September 26, 2013). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 18.0°C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Steady). 08:29 cait morning #koha 08:44 magnuse guten morgen holiday-cait! 08:44 cait morning :) 09:22 Oak i can try/set-up Discourse on my computer, and if it works there, I can set up a micro instance on AWS for you guys to play with... 09:22 Oak hello cait \o 09:23 cait hi Oak :) 09:23 cait hi kathryn_ 09:23 cait wrong time of day! :) 09:24 kathryn_ I know! :) hi cait :) 09:28 cait but yu are not still working i hope? 09:53 wizzyrea_ sup kathryn_ :) 09:54 kathryn_ hiyee I'm just lurking around, reading home renovation blogs :) 09:54 wizzyrea_ oooo 09:57 kathryn_ noone blogs entertainingly about fixing leaks 09:58 wizzyrea_ surely there's a joke to be made about filling crevices with silicone 09:58 kathryn_ aye! 09:59 kathryn_ maybe this is my inter-niche 10:00 magnuse tee hee 10:06 magnuse wb wizzyrea_ 10:06 wizzyrea_ lol the hazards of using a web based irc client. 10:06 magnuse moahahaha 10:06 wizzyrea_ i had to rebuild my laptop, hasn't been a priority to get konversation set up again :) 10:16 magnuse wizzyrea_: rebuild physically, or just reinstall software? 10:16 wizzyrea_ well a little of both 10:16 wizzyrea_ i kind of burned up mine >.> 10:16 magnuse ouch?!? 10:17 wizzyrea_ well laptops and pillows don't seem to mix >.> 10:23 magnuse heh 10:34 * Oak always puts a flat clipboard under his laptop... when using in bed 10:35 cait huge comic book here 10:36 Oak :) ooh comic book! 10:37 Oak geek aleret 10:37 cait heh 10:45 Oak i was thinking, that forums like phpbb may also be a good fit for us. in a phpbb forum we can have sub-forums like General, Announcements, Programming, jQuery, OPAC, and then topics inside them. this way things get organized a bit. and our community is quite sensible one so there won't be huge mess of topics. and in that "forumy" sense, Discourse looks good too. I saw this: http://ubuntu-discourse.org/ 10:45 cait hm i don't like forums much personally 10:45 Oak hm 10:45 Oak elaborate a bit.... 10:46 cait but that's me :) i am complicated 10:46 cait trying.. 10:46 cait i think thinks get easily lost in their 10:46 cait i like the rating idea for good answers 10:47 cait because if a form thread has like.. 10 pages it gets hard to follow, like with some of those looong bug discussions we tend to have 10:47 Oak yeah rating system is great. i read an answer with most UPs in SE and just ignore the other answers... saves time. 10:47 cait think things... 10:47 Oak you have a point. 10:48 * Oak will google "forum+rating+system" 10:49 cait i think the stack exchange idea was good 10:49 cait just having it on an independent platform 10:50 Oak hm 10:51 Oak http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/2267/stack-overflow-clones 11:06 Oak 'shapado' looks interesting 11:10 Oak but no. we need something free I think. 11:12 cait yep 11:12 cait doing dishes bbl 11:22 magnuse shapado is free software, agpl 11:22 magnuse they just try to hide it :-) 11:23 magnuse at the bottom here: https://shapado.com/plans it says "Powered by Shapado 4.1.0 under the GNU Affero General Public License" and there is a link to http://gitorious.org/shapado 12:00 Oak ooh let me check that 12:01 Oak where is the download link magnuse? let's download 100 copies of it asap!! 12:01 Oak oh wait. clone repository! 12:19 oleonard Hi #koha 12:21 marcelr hi oleonard 12:26 magnuse clone all the repositories! 12:45 oleonard Sorry, but if someone starts a Koha phpbb forum I will not be visiting. 12:46 cait you don't like forums either? 12:47 oleonard No. Too hard to keep up with. If I'm forced to visit every day to find out what's new I just won't. 12:47 cait true 12:48 magnuse yup 12:48 oleonard I'm open to the stack exchange model because it could act as a sort of FAQ system. I don't see a need for a new discussion venue. 12:49 cait oleonard: well put :) 12:49 cait i agree, but I couldn't really explain my aversion to forums earlier 12:51 oleonard With any discussion system you need to be able to quickly scan through to see if there are topics which are relevant to you and ignore the rest. I think email is best for this because I'm already reading email throughout the day. 12:52 * cait nods 12:54 oleonard Bug 2969 could use some second and third opinions with regard to gmcharlt's last comment 12:54 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2969 major, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, amit.gupta, In Discussion , Report Name should be mandatory for saved reports 12:55 oleonard Good enough, or needs more work? 12:57 cait hm i think a good first step - i'd take that and do a separate bug for more screw tigthening 12:57 cait :) 13:03 cait oleonard: commented 13:03 oleonard Thanks cait 13:03 cait yw 13:10 magnuse oleonard++ cait++ 13:10 cait hm? 13:10 druthb cait++ 13:11 oleonard Yes, us++ for being awake! 13:11 druthb oleonard++ 13:13 * cait hides 13:14 magnuse for moving bugs along, one comment at a time :-) 13:41 tcohen morning #koha 13:46 cait morning tcohen 14:00 Joubu thanks oleonard for the followup on bug 10858 14:00 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10858 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Browse selected biblios 14:00 oleonard You're welcome 14:07 oleonard Bug 10951 is a good idea, but it would have been nice to implement it in a Koha News kind of way, with different values for different languages 14:07 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10951 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, philippe.blouin, ASSIGNED , Make the NoLoginInstructions a customizable field through preferences 14:08 cait oleonard: true for every new preference like that 14:08 cait i like that they kept the translatable standard message in the template 14:08 cait i think it looks like noone is going to implement it as 'news' currently :( 14:09 * oleonard would do it if he were smart that way 14:09 cait similar problem here 14:16 oleonard Maybe cait1 knows how to do it. She's the latest version! 14:16 Oak i was about to say a similar thing 14:16 cait1 i have 3 big building sites in the neighboorhood 14:16 cait1 and my interent is down :( 14:16 cait1 ... 14:16 cait1 back using umts 14:18 tcohen i cait1 14:18 tcohen s/^i/hi/ 14:18 Oak aye aye cait1 14:21 Oak it should be "run forrest run" 14:21 Oak double r 14:24 oleonard Let it not be said I didn't get anything done today. 14:27 oleonard Joubu: I think it's odd that msaby and I both got the same error testing Bug 10857 (an error I've never gotten before) but I will retest today. 14:27 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10857 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Add facets cancellation 14:29 Joubu oleonard: yes, but I think the jajm's patch will definitly fix the issue 14:34 slef @marc 245 b 14:34 huginn slef: Remainder of title 14:34 slef @marc 245 14:34 huginn slef: The title and statement of responsibility area of the bibliographic description of a work. [a,b,c,f,g,h,k,n,p,s,6,8] 14:34 slef wahanui: MARC? 14:34 wahanui MARC is probably the standard that isn't 14:34 slef wahanui: MARC21? 14:34 wahanui i heard MARC21 was at http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/ecbdlist.html , http://www.loc.gov/marc/authority/ecadlist.html 14:47 alaquerre Hi all, question for everyone : Is there a way in Koha to work with Alfresco ? The goal we have here is to put pdf and word document inside Alfresco. After that, if we query Koha, we would like to get result from Alfresco ? Possible ? 14:47 cait not without catalouging something in Koha 14:48 slef or configuring pazpar2? 14:48 cait maybe 14:48 cait there is a patch from Jesse to have external z39.50 targets but it's currently stuck 14:48 cait waiting for rebase 14:48 slef does Alfresco speak z39.50 or similar 14:48 slef ? 14:48 cait I would be surprised :( 14:48 alaquerre I can't tell 14:48 slef Does anyone know why does fieldmapping.sql only exist in uk-UA and ru-RU? 14:49 cait slef: no, but they have done some things different than others 14:49 cait what is in the file? 14:49 cait slef: actually i wanted to ask you about a bug when you showed up 14:50 slef sets up subtitle in two frameworks 14:50 cait slef: ah, no i don't think the other languages have that 14:50 slef cait: you can try but I have no spare koha time until 1 Oct ;-) 14:50 slef @query subtitle 14:50 huginn slef: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4166 normal, P5 - low, ---, henridamien, NEW , No way to know what keywords to use for Keyword Mapping 14:50 huginn slef: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8265 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Allow a better form of the title to be included in notices 14:50 huginn slef: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6016 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Keyword Mapping Should Work with XSLT turned on 14:50 cait that's ok 14:50 huginn slef: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7074 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , keyword mapping on checkin and checkout screen 14:50 cait just need an info 14:50 huginn slef: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10383 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , printable version of bib record doesn't include subtitle in staff client 14:51 cait slef: bug 7716 14:51 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7716 enhancement, P3, ---, mjr, ASSIGNED , Statistical/analytic item type 14:51 cait you marked it sponsored,so I wondered if there was something i could start from already if I tried to do something like that :) 14:52 slef oh yeah 14:52 cait I'd really like to have that for our ILL workflow and copies of articles the user gets to keep 14:52 cait obviously such a thing wouldn'tmake it into 3.14 14:52 cait but i'd like to start sometime soon after the release 14:52 slef There's wip/bug_7716 on the server I'm working on right now. 14:53 cait can you give me a link? 14:53 cait and would it be ok to take a look? keeping your work intact of course 14:53 slef Sadly not but If you can remind me the send-email command, I'll send it across. 14:53 slef or if it's published, I can rebase and git bz it 14:53 cait do you meant git send-email -f um commit or something like that? 14:53 slef but if it isn't there may be a reason 14:54 slef so I'd need to check what we did wrong :-/ 14:54 slef (client data leak, usually) 14:54 cait oh 14:54 cait hm 14:54 cait well if you could put it somewhere on your list it would be nice 14:54 slef if it leaks, I'll send it to you because I trust you 14:54 cait aww 14:54 slef but I won't publish it 14:54 cait what do you mean by client data leak? 14:55 slef it hardcodes some aspect of the sponsoring library 14:55 slef I'm forever trying to avoid them, but sometimes they still sneak through. 14:55 cait ah ok, hm problematic 14:56 slef Sometimes I even create them when I need a particular value or behaviour and I've no way for koha to do it yet. 14:57 cait hm we will have to take that out then I think - before anything could go on bugzilla 14:57 slef yeah but it should give you a start 14:57 cait that would be cool 14:59 slef OK it's been a while. When filing a new bug, do I click "New Case" or "New Run"? 14:59 oleonard Wow, I am quite consistently crashing Firefox by clicking a link in OPAC search results. I wonder what the trick is? 15:00 slef wahanui: bug reporting guidelines? 15:00 wahanui wish i knew, slef 15:00 slef wahanui: bug reporting? 15:00 wahanui rumour has it bug reporting is explained at http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Bug_Reporting_Guidelines 15:00 slef Choose "Enter a new bug" 15:00 cait slef: neither, new abit above 15:00 cait yep that one :) 15:00 slef errr, where's that then? 15:00 cait the other is a plugin ... i have no idea still what it does 15:00 cait rangi and gmcharlt were testing something 15:01 cait slef: first row of links: Home | New 15:01 * slef tries "File a bug" on the home page, muttering about incorrect docs and the need to redirect his openID to something that still works 15:01 gmcharlt cait: slef: testopia -- an add-on to allow test cases to be written and linked to bugs 15:02 gmcharlt a few have been written, but I've not had much time to take the experiment further 15:02 cait gmcharlt: i tried playin with it, but i was not able to figure out how it would work 15:02 cait gmcharlt: can you point to an example? 15:03 cait gmcharlt: it's all empty for me when i open it and go through the tabs and tree structure 15:07 slef Bug 6716 15:07 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6716 enhancement, P3, ---, nengard, RESOLVED FIXED, Database Documentation 15:07 slef The attachment you are attempting to access has been removed. 15:07 slef yay 15:07 slef oh I'll do git log --grep=... 15:08 slef Bug 10953 has been added to the database 15:08 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10953 minor, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Missing subtitle fieldmapping unless you use ru-RU or uk-UA 15:11 cait slef: what's the problem with the file? :) 15:11 cait the mapping is a default feature 15:12 cait so we could provide a sample file, but there it should not cause you any problems if you miss the configuration 15:12 cait and i think it only works without xslt 15:23 gmcharlt cait: here's an example http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/tr_show_case.cgi?case_id=1 15:23 cait i am not uathorized :( 15:24 cait You are not authorized to view case 1 15:24 gmcharlt ah, that would be a problem :) 15:24 mtompset Greetings, #koha. 15:24 rambutan hi mtompset 15:25 mtompset Greetings, rambutan. 15:26 gmcharlt cait: OK, please try again 15:26 slef cait: there is no file 15:27 slef cait: xslt transforms marcxml IIRC so sidesteps the issue, but as long as Normal View is default, I think we should make it easier to show subtitles 15:27 cait slef: that's ok - maybe we should change the default tho at some point 15:27 cait hm maybe we did 15:28 cait gmcharlt: can access now 15:28 cait but have to run to the post office 15:28 cait will take a closer look a little later 15:43 oleonard Who wants to try to crash Firefox? Do a keyword search, click on one of the results. Click the author link on the detail page to perform an author search. Click a facet in the author search results. Click a title on the resulting search results. 15:43 * slef does that 15:43 * cait grumps 15:43 cait they are on vacation 15:43 slef the post office? 15:44 cait and i have this huge package i can barely carry 15:44 oleonard Trying it in Chrome doesn't result in a crash but the page has been endlessly loading. 15:44 cait that needs to get sent back today or tomorrow 15:44 slef oleonard: no crash, but I think I may be endlessly loading. 15:44 cait slef: not german post... but the shop where i need to bring the package to that was in walking distance 15:44 slef oleonard: I think I just did two subject searches in a while. 15:44 slef aieee server down 15:45 cait that is so annoying. 15:46 slef not down, just slow 15:46 slef mysqld hogging 15:47 * slef tries it again 15:47 slef ok, now it's working... the mysqld slowdown may have been unrelated 15:47 slef oleonard: sorry, worksforme in 3.10 (I think) 15:50 rambutan facet? 15:50 slef rambutan: I think he means the "Refine your search" bit on the left 15:51 slef BICBW 15:52 kivilahtio__ Phew! Just generalized the UseLibraryTransferLimits to limit holds as well. 15:53 oleonard Works for me in 3.10 too 15:53 oleonard But not in master 15:53 kivilahtio__ 6h, not bad considering this is my first modification test thingy 15:53 kivilahtio__ +some debugging time 15:53 kivilahtio__ I mean time to properly configure the CGI debugging tools 15:54 * cait arranged that it will be picked up on saturday - yay 15:54 rambutan oleonard: I'm clearly not doing things right, but it works for me 15:54 oleonard rambutan: In master? 15:54 cait ok gone again :) 15:54 rambutan ah, no 15:56 cait kivilahtio__: make sure you file a bug and give back your modifications 15:56 cait kivilahtio__: being stuck on highly modified koha is evil :) 15:57 oleonard Facets. Facets facets facets. @query facets 15:57 oleonard @query facets 15:57 huginn oleonard: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=1964 normal, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Facetted searching should change search box 15:57 huginn oleonard: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9361 normal, P4, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , MARC 610 and 611 fields in bulk imports are not linked to authorities 15:57 huginn oleonard: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3451 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , No facets for tags search 15:57 huginn oleonard: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5993 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , tags not searchable 15:57 huginn oleonard: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8026 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Facets code should allow to build facets on controlfields 15:58 oleonard Yes, I'm pretty sure facets are a thing. 16:24 oleonard I was hoping Bug 10952 would cure that crash, but no. 16:24 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10952 major, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , Store anonymous search history in session 16:32 oleonard Happens with search history disabled and with browse results disabled. 16:36 mtompset Okay... more progress. Need to figure out how to trigger baskets. 16:51 mtompset SPLIT! 16:51 mtompset YAY! I figured out how to trigger the basket.pl 17:24 magnuse druthb! 17:24 druthb magnuse! 17:24 wahanui magnuse is a Norwegian giant. 17:28 mtompset Greetings, tcohen druthb magnuse, etc. :) 17:28 magnuse hiya mtompset 17:29 druthb hi, mtompset! :) 17:29 druthb wahanui: mtompset? 17:29 wahanui mtompset is fighting a test writing learning curve to get code in before feature slush. 17:29 mtompset Close. 17:30 mtompset Testing a patch like crazy in hopes that it makes feature freeze. 17:36 magnuse mtompset++ 17:36 mtompset Thanks, magnuse. :) 17:56 * mtompset sighs. 17:56 mtompset What is recommended if the behaviour handling is poor for bad data cases? 17:56 mtompset Signoff and note bad cases? 17:56 cait if something bad happens 17:57 mtompset Not signoff, and note bad cases? 17:57 cait you should note it 17:57 cait it always depends, i don't know what you've found 17:57 cait but trying to break the feature with wrong input should always be part of the testing 17:57 mtompset The page allows for uploading files. 17:57 mtompset Well, if you don't specify where, and click submit, it still uploads the file, but gives and error. 17:58 cait a perl error? 17:58 wahanui a perl error is not realted to that feature 17:58 mtompset It shouldn't upload at all in that case. 17:58 mtompset no, an "We didn't like this" type error which is programmed. 17:58 cait it does sound probleamtic yes 17:58 cait but if it still uploads and does state it didn't... that's problematic 17:59 mtompset exactly. 17:59 mtompset it uploads, but the error makes it sound like it failed. 17:59 mtompset so when you try again... it fails again. 17:59 mtompset and you are forced to read the error logs to determine why. 17:59 cait is there any security measure about what kind of files you can uplaod? 17:59 cait where are they saved to? 18:00 mtompset You can upload ANYTHING that is a file. 18:00 mtompset though, I suspect large files may time out (haven't gotten there yet) 18:00 cait ahum. 18:00 cait where does it end up? 18:00 mtompset as for where. 18:00 mtompset you configure that in the koha-conf.xml 18:01 mtompset and you can create sub-directories from within that directory to allow for grouping. 18:01 mtompset There is no way to get it to write outside those directories as far as I can tell. 18:02 tcohen cait: this is wrong, right? http://snag.gy/Ea0X8.jpg 18:02 tcohen the ' -- ' after 'by' 18:03 cait hm that's non xslt I think? 18:03 tcohen no, that's XSLT 18:03 cait for UNIMARC? 18:03 tcohen MARC21 18:03 cait oh 18:03 cait then it looks weird 18:03 jcamins tcohen: it's for corporate authors. 18:03 tcohen the register only has 710$a and 710$b 18:04 tcohen i'm fixing bug 10957 18:04 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10957 trivial, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , 710$a with 710$b (subordinate unit) present shows wrong (XSLT) 18:04 jcamins I don't remember why, but there was a reason that corporate authors are introduced with double dashes. 18:04 tcohen oh, it is intended then 18:04 tcohen not a visualizatio bug 18:04 jcamins Yeah, but I wouldn't have any objection to removing it. 18:04 * cait looks up train connections to and from the airport :) 18:06 tcohen should i add dot at the end? 18:07 * mtompset smirks, "-- . $$!" 18:07 mtompset Librarians have their own formatting quirkiness. 18:07 cait oh please no dots 18:07 cait people here tell me they look silly 18:08 jcamins What cait is saying is that libraries are already dotty. 18:11 magnuse too true! :-) 18:11 magnuse anyone else had trouble opening the value builders in the cataloguing screen in internet explorer? 18:11 magnuse ie-- 18:11 cait not yet, but i haven't tried 18:12 mtompset Oh... good testing idea. 18:12 cait i think it was ok in the training i did 18:13 mtompset Oh right... I need cookies. 18:14 jcamins magnuse: works fine in IE10. 18:14 jcamins Ugh. 18:14 jcamins How did I end up with IE10? 18:14 * jcamins goes questing for older versions. 18:15 magnuse jcamins, cait: thanks. it could possibly be that normarc does things differently than marc21 - i have not kept up to date with some changes that were done for marc21 (and probably unimarc)... 18:15 jcamins Here's IE8. I shall try. 18:15 oleonard IE10 is sneaky 18:15 jcamins Works in IE8. 18:17 magnuse thanks jcamins 18:17 oleonard I'm perplexed by this, so I'll ask again: Is anyone else seeing collection codes listed under Item type search facets? 18:17 * magnuse wanders off 18:17 cait sorry, can't test righ tnow 18:17 jcamins oleonard: nopes. 18:17 jcamins s/s// 18:18 mtompset -- . :P 18:18 oleonard Anyone have any suggestions for where I might look to confirm that I have wonky data causing this? 18:19 mtompset Oops... I wonder. 18:19 mtompset @karma mtompset 18:19 huginn mtompset: Karma for "mtompset" has been increased 38 times and decreased 3 times for a total karma of 35. 18:20 oleonard Looking at the patch on Bug 4255 it looks like it looks for 952y and 942c? 18:20 mtompset Okay... whew. Didn't accidentally -- myself. :) 18:20 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4255 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, meenakshi.r, RESOLVED FIXED, Add item type to facet list 18:23 oleonard Clicking on one of these collection code facets breaks the functionality of Bug 10857 so I'd like to confirm that it's a data problem 18:23 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10857 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Add facets cancellation 18:24 tcohen bug 10957, attached the patch 18:24 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10957 trivial, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , 710$a with 710$b (subordinate unit) present shows wrong (XSLT) 18:27 cait oleonard: check the item information for the result list? 18:28 oleonard I've queried the database for items with invalid itemtypes/ccodes and come up empty. 18:34 cait hm 18:34 cait oleonard: full reindex? 18:34 cait it looks at the zebra data i think 18:34 oleonard I think I found it 18:36 oleonard I'm finding collection codes in 942a 18:36 cait oh 18:36 mtompset cait: Is that last comment friendlier testing steps on bug 6874? 18:36 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , File upload in MARC 18:37 cait mtompset: yes 18:37 cait where is your problem description? 18:37 cait ah i see 18:38 cait the issues note :) 18:39 mtompset ccodes? Did someone say ccodes? 18:39 mtompset I was noticing a warning in the error logs related to ccodes last night. 18:44 oleonard So, hooray. We have junky data. What else is new I guess. 18:44 oleonard Being a pioneer of Koha adoption carries some risk of cruft I think 18:45 jcamins Being a library carries some risk of cruft. 18:45 * cait hands oleonard cookies 18:45 jcamins Cookies. Yum. 18:45 jcamins What kind of cookies should I make? 18:46 mtompset Junky data is good. It means it isn't your fault, unless you do the cataloguing. :) 18:47 mtompset Oooo... cookie ideas... let me see.. I should send you a page suggestion on facebook. 18:52 rambutan [off]sorry for off topic, but our library is looking for a new director. Any nice people interested? 18:53 mtompset [off] Not I, but perhaps sending a job description to the Koha mailing list might interest others? 18:53 cait [off] guess teleworking from germany wouldn't be an option? :) 18:53 rambutan yea, I intend to do that 18:54 oleonard [off] rambutan, does your director usually just hack on Koha all day? 18:54 rambutan cait; well, I think you'd need to show up here once a week or so 18:54 cait that oculd be difficult then 18:54 cait too bad :) 18:54 rambutan oleonard: ah, no, but she's very supportive of open source in general and Koha and IT (me) 18:55 rambutan @seen wizzyrea 18:55 huginn rambutan: wizzyrea was last seen in #koha 15 hours and 36 seconds ago: <wizzyrea> I think I could happily argue about this with you all day 18:55 * oleonard doesn't like the job description in that case 18:55 cait @wunder Konstanz 18:55 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 15.8°C (8:55 PM CEST on September 26, 2013). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 92%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Steady). 19:03 mtompset Have a great day (24 hour period), #koha. 19:07 oleonard Sure, he says that. But then just 12 hours later he's back as if he didn't trust us to make it 24 hours. 19:08 cait heh 19:08 * cait is torturing druthb with her travel preparations 19:08 cait druthb++ 19:09 druthb :P 19:09 oleonard For Reno? 19:10 druthb yah. 19:10 oleonard Poor druthb (and jcamins!), getting there so late 19:10 druthb also, flying in the US is so unlike the rest of the known universe... 19:10 oleonard A whole day of kohacon without you 19:11 oleonard rangi paul_p and cait are going to be like Reno natives by the time the rest of us arrive 19:12 jcamins curried coconut oatmeal chocolate chip cookies? 19:12 wahanui curried coconut oatmeal chocolate chip cookies are at http://www.cookiemadness.net/2009/05/curry-coconut-oatmeal-chocolate-chip-cookies/ 19:13 oleonard @later tell wizzyrea Something is going wrong with the responsive demo 19:13 huginn oleonard: The operation succeeded. 19:13 oleonard druthb: You still planning to drive? 19:16 cait oleonard: i hope to get there without a day of delay this time 19:16 cait but at least i am prepared for that! 19:19 druthb oleonard: nope. flyin' in. 19:25 oleonard Can I use mysql to search for records with an invalid value in 942c? 19:25 jcamins oleonard: yeah, but not easily. 19:26 jcamins Actually, that's not true. It's easy. 19:26 jcamins What I meant was, do it when the library's not too busy. 19:29 * oleonard is all eyeballs 19:31 jcamins SELECT biblionumber FROM biblioitems WHERE ExtractValue(marcxml,'//datafield[@tag="942"]/subfield[@code="c"]') IN (SELECT itemtype FROM itemtypes); 19:34 oleonard Thanks jcamins 20:03 * wizzyrea made it in before oleonard left 20:03 wizzyrea this is amazing 20:03 ebegin Sorry for the spam on the bugs mailing list. We are experimenting the commit process for our development. 20:03 oleonard Hi wizzyrea 20:04 oleonard I've been slack this week, left early every day until today 20:04 wizzyrea :) 20:04 * jcamins contemplates sweet potato pie. 20:04 wizzyrea mmm that would be yummy 20:05 wizzyrea oleonard: looking at it now 20:05 ebegin We are commiting the "I forget my password" features. I'm sure a lot of libraries are waiting for this ;) 20:06 wizzyrea yep definitely 20:07 cait ebegin: yep - that's nice! 20:27 rambutan @seen wizzyrea 20:27 huginn rambutan: wizzyrea was last seen in #koha 21 minutes and 2 seconds ago: <wizzyrea> yep definitely 20:27 wizzyrea hi 20:27 wizzyrea sup 20:27 wizzyrea (yes, I know, I'm working on it 20:34 * gmcharlt wonders how many folks use the patches list nowadays 20:35 jcamins gmcharlt: not so many. 20:35 cait oleonard mostly :) 20:35 jcamins tcohen also. 20:49 magnuse have fun, #koha! 20:49 mtompset Greetings, #koha. 20:49 mtompset Bye, magnuse? :) 20:50 magnuse see ya mtompset 20:50 mtompset gmcharlt: I have a question about the idea of using jquery to re-write text. 20:50 mtompset That doesn't translate, does it? 20:51 jcamins mtompset: not with a single line. 20:51 gmcharlt depends on one's jQuery 20:51 mtompset So it is possible to write the jquery to detect the language and generate output accordingly? 20:51 jcamins Yeah. 20:52 cait mtompset: what are yo utrying to do? 20:52 mtompset not trying to do anything. 20:52 mtompset I'm thinking about bug 10951 that the new guy posted about. 20:52 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10951 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, philippe.blouin, Needs Signoff , Make the NoLoginInstructions a customizable field through preferences 20:53 cait hm but that's not done using javascript 20:53 cait but i use javascript to have multiple languages now, would love for a better solution 20:54 cait system preferences are lmited, something like the news system would be better suited for our various customizable areas 20:54 mtompset I know. gmcharlt was suggesting jquery would be better for that scenario. 20:54 cait mtompset: i think i am confused. 20:54 gmcharlt better the jQuery than a new, limited-purpose syspref 20:55 jcamins The jQuery is more translatable, if that's your question. 20:55 mtompset true. sysprefs are dynamic like jquery. 20:55 cait gmcharlt: hm not sure here - i like the way that is done- they keep the old message in the templates and only overwrite it 20:55 mtompset aern't. 20:55 cait seems not fair to require them to write a new translatable system i guess 20:55 gmcharlt cait: and add yet another syspref when the existing ones can suffice 20:55 cait and javascript is still pretty limited and might cause problems 20:56 * gmcharlt is not a member of the syspref all the things club -- I really do think that we have a responsibility to not over-proliferate them 20:56 cait i think all the html prefs should go into a different tool ultimately 20:56 gmcharlt I agree with that 20:56 cait but in terms of accessibility and such i like not depending on jquery where i can avoid it 20:57 gmcharlt well, there is an alternative mechanism already in place for that 20:57 gmcharlt use the translation system + custom PO files to manage tweaks 20:57 cait gmcharlt: custom po files won#t work for english easily 20:57 cait and they are a PITA to maintain 20:58 cait well in my experience that is, there is a place for htem 20:58 cait but yo uwould have to do 2 20:58 cait a special english one 20:58 cait and another for every language you want to have 20:59 cait having a differnet english one could make you run into some of the problems we have because you can't really define a standard language and browser detection and all that 20:59 cait not sure how doable that is 20:59 mtompset Sorry... didn't mean to bring up the whole translation mess. 20:59 cait for the login message you'd need one for each library 20:59 cait maybe i misunderstand tho. hm. 21:00 gmcharlt a new syspref by itself doesn't help any of that 21:00 * gmcharlt is not disputing that there are pleny of ways that the translation system could be improved and made more usable 21:00 cait it's actually not that bad :) 21:00 gmcharlt and, for the matter, easier to use as an alternative mechanism for customiizing strings 21:00 cait but i think it's not right to misuse it for customizing 21:02 cait translations are translations, but if you want it to say differently for every library i thik customizable areas that a library can edit easily are better 21:02 mtompset misuse jquery's for customizing? 21:02 cait misuse pos 21:02 * cait is not sure how she ended up argueing wth gmcharlt 21:03 gmcharlt cait: we *are* allowed to have differences of opinion :) 21:03 cait I am not sure i like it :) 21:03 gmcharlt from my POV, the translation system can be viewed as a general-purpose string repliacement tool 21:03 cait i think it's not well suited for that 21:03 mtompset YAY! Another person who understands differences of opinion does not preclude civility and friendship. :) 21:03 cait you have to run jobs on the server 21:04 cait and when you run and maintain lots of very different libraries... 21:04 gmcharlt hence the possiblity of it taking care of translations -- but I do recognize that there would be operational difficulties every time one upgraded 21:04 cait and there is lots of translation work to do, yes 21:04 cait i can only imagine it a nightmare 21:04 cait it already often is 21:04 cait fixing all the typos one missed 21:05 cait and doing that for every and each po file for every library you changed something like a login message... 21:05 cait especially the login message is a good example - because every library has different default passwords and instructions how to type in the numbers printed on the student id card or whatever 21:05 cait i actually wanted that to be customizable for a longer time now :) 21:06 cait i even pondered doing that syspref :) 21:06 mtompset Well, the bug still needs a couple tweaks (as I pointed out in my comment). 21:06 * gmcharlt has a customer who has but a single library, but 5-6 translation active 21:06 gmcharlt that's one thing informing my POV on this 21:07 mtompset True, a syspref would not solve that problem. 21:07 cait gmcharlt: we always offer english and gemran, but we have one with 4 languages active 21:07 mtompset But for libraries with a single language interface, a syspref works just fine. 21:08 cait and I maintain my own po files for the manuscript library we have 21:09 cait but i am not sure i get the point hm. 21:11 gmcharlt cait: point being that a syspref doesn't currently have any way to specify multiple translations of its value 21:12 gmcharlt though that would be an ability well worth teaching the syspref sytem 21:12 cait gmcharlt: either that or take it out into a tool 21:12 cait there are lots of things that don't translate into multiple languages sadly 21:13 cait itemtype descriptions, authorised value descriptions... 21:13 cait everything that is visible in the opac owuld be nice to have 21:13 gmcharlt yeah, one of the things marcelr has been poking at would help solve that problem 21:13 cait hm? 21:14 gmcharlt a mechanism for storing, in the database, translations for strings that are also stored in the database 21:14 gmcharlt so that you could say, here's my library name in en-NZ, and in de-DE, and in fr-FR, etc. 21:15 cait hm i haven't had time yet to take a look at his work for the sample installer files 21:15 cait which is a pity 21:15 cait but yes, something like that 21:16 cait a way to specify your standard language for fallbacks, and a way to store translations for strings noting which language they are 21:16 cait things like that 21:16 gmcharlt yeah 21:17 cait hope druthb_away listens in ... I think she gives a presentation about that at kohacon ;) 21:17 cait well about translation problems i think 21:17 cait hm it's late, i should finish this - brb 21:21 cait gmcharlt: another thought maybe why i am not so happy with jquery - many of my coworkers are using plugins turning off any javascript they don't explicitly allow on websites 21:21 cait the message would never be visible in that case - or very hard to spot 21:22 cait so with a pref i can at least show the german message always - and toggle the english one using jquery 21:22 cait not perfect... but a little better 21:24 gmcharlt yeah, I can see that -- but where would it end? that argument would justify making a syspref of just about every distinct bit of text that a library might wish to customize 21:24 gmcharlt not that anybody would seriously propose that of course 21:28 cait nope :) 21:29 cait just saying that bit proposed here is one we evenallowed to customize in our horizon opacs 21:29 cait i was all against changing the name of the cart by syspref some time ago 21:29 cait ok, now really gone for a bit - i haven't even had dinner tonight yet 21:30 gmcharlt yeah, it runs into the question of wishing that all of the effort on tackling individual aspects of the same problem were concentrated into a buidling a broader solution 21:33 wizzyrea broader_solutions++ 21:40 cait gmcharlt: hm I think we can agree on that :) 22:27 eythian hi 22:28 eythian wahanui: it works is <reply>But it also eats babies. 22:28 wahanui OK, eythian. 22:28 cait lol 22:28 eythian wahanui: it works is also <reply>However, now everything else is broken. 22:28 wahanui okay, eythian. 22:28 eythian wahanui: it works is also <reply>For now... 22:28 wahanui okay, eythian. 22:28 eythian wahanui: it works is also <reply>You should blog about it. 22:28 wahanui okay, eythian. 22:29 eythian wahanui: literal it works 22:29 wahanui eythian: it works =is= <reply>But it also eats babies.|<reply>However, now everything else is broken.|<reply>For now...|<reply>You should blog about it. 22:29 gmcharlt wahanui: it works is also <reply>But now the Universe has disappeared 22:29 wahanui okay, gmcharlt. 22:35 rambutan it works? 22:35 wahanui But now the Universe has disappeared 22:35 rambutan it works? 22:35 wahanui You should blog about it. 22:36 wizzyrea rofl. 22:36 eythian In wizzyrea's case, it should be FOSBL (Falling Off Swiss Ball Laughing) 22:36 wizzyrea ^^ this 22:37 wizzyrea well I suppose, technically when I'm at work, I am always rolling on the floor by way of a swiss ball. 22:37 jcamins I guess I should be using that too. 23:04 trea it works! 23:04 wahanui But now the Universe has disappeared 23:05 * trea claps excitedly for wahanui 23:06 wizzyrea ! 23:11 cait it works! 23:11 wahanui But now the Universe has disappeared