IRC log for #koha, 2013-04-16

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:10 mtompset giving ubuntu 13.04 beta 2 a whirl. :)
00:53 mtompset Nice... Looks like Koha sets up nice under 13.04 for packages. :)
00:54 mtompset (I used squeeze-dev)
01:08 mtompset ubuntu 13.04, that is.
01:08 mtompset (beta 2)
01:26 dcook joined #koha
01:37 mtompset Greetings, dcook.
01:37 dcook hey ya mtompset
01:42 dcook Does anyone use Solr for indexing other than BibLibre?
01:43 rangi not me
01:46 dcook Nor would you?
01:47 rangi naw, no advantage
01:48 rangi everything ppl blame on zebra, are problems we totally created ourselves
01:48 dcook With perhaps the exception of not having an active development community
01:49 dcook Overall, Zebra seems to work pretty well
01:49 jcamins Also, the Solr implementation we have now doesn't work.
01:49 dcook My only complaints would be the config files ( get used to)
01:49 jcamins Kind of a critical error.
01:49 dcook jcamins: I thought that was the case as well ;)
01:49 dcook So BibLibre has a successful implementation, but their code hasn't come over?
01:50 jcamins That is my assumption.
01:50 dcook Same
01:50 dcook rangi: What's your take on the facets issue?
01:51 dcook Is that one of the issues that we created ourselves or is that a limitation of Zebra?
01:51 jcamins Our fault, mostly.
01:52 rangi not sure about that jcamins would know, but im guessing our fault
01:52 rangi *snap*
01:52 dcook Hmm
01:53 jcamins I mean, solr has better faceting than Zebra, but Zebra has better faceting than Koha.
01:55 dcook Mmm
01:55 dcook But then the diacritic issue comes up that they mention in the RFC
01:55 dcook With Zebra facets
01:58 jcamins It's possible to get raw facets out of Zebra.
02:06 dcook So I assume that we haven't "fixed" facets in Zebra because there hasn't been the financial support to do it yet?
02:07 dcook Zebra = Koha
02:07 jcamins Right.
02:08 jcamins It was part of my search rewrite proposal.
02:09 dcook Koha really needs to win the lottery or put together some sort of donation service..
02:09 dcook Interesting fact
02:09 dcook Saskatchewan lotteries actually puts quite a bit of money into public libraries
02:11 jcamins Most of the special collections in the UK get a sizable portion of the acquisition budgets from the National Lottery Fund.
02:11 rangi dcook: basically we need to join something like SPI to hold the money first
02:11 rangi then we can collect it
02:12 dcook rangi: SPI?
02:12 wahanui SPI is just a way to hold/traffic assets
02:12 dcook jcamins: That's cool
02:13 rangi
02:13 dcook I was just about to ask if that was the link
02:14 rangi debian, jenkins, libreoffice etc
02:14 rangi use it
02:14 rangi postgres too
02:14 rangi
02:14 wizzyrea in good company :)
02:15 dcook Sounds great
02:15 rangi[…]ed-project-howto/
02:15 rangi not too complicated either
02:17 dcook Might not be the easiest to donate to though
02:17 dcook 4.5% from credit cards then 5% for overhead
02:17 dcook Doesn't that work out to more than some of the other services that you were looking at before?
02:17 dcook Surprised to see them mention "checks" so much
02:18 dcook I didn't know that people really used them anymore
02:18 jcamins Hehe.
02:18 jcamins Only in the US.
02:18 rangi dcook: those services are just for random things, and don't really span project stuff
02:18 rangi spi can also hold the TMs, etc
02:19 dcook Interesting
02:19 wahanui Interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
02:19 dcook The fact that other big projects are associated certainly makes it seem more attractive
02:21 rangi its a good way to safely put things the whole community own
02:21 dcook Sounds good to me
02:25 bag evening
02:26 rangi hey bag
02:26 bag yo rangi
02:26 bag sad day here
02:27 rangi yeah, i saw, what a mess
02:27 bag yeah mess is right - you can say that again
02:32 mtj hi all  - sorry to hear the news from boston :(
02:34 bag hey mtj
02:34 mtj jcamins, there is one big feature solr has, thats missing from zebra….  good searching of CJK ngrams
02:34 bag yup not good
02:35 jcamins mtj: yeah, but I'd rather have searching work for the languages I use first.
02:36 dcook evening bag
02:36 mtj jcamins. yes, of course….
02:36 bag hey dcook
02:37 dcook mtj: Personally, I'd love to see a Koha that could be DB and Indexer independent, but...easier said than done
02:38 jcamins Yeah, that would be the ideal.
02:38 rangi the search rewrite was moving us in that direction
02:38 dcook was?
02:39 jcamins Yes, the author got sick of it, and after he finishes some bugfixes to the first part, he's declaring it over as far as he's concerned.
02:39 dcook Mmm, fair enough
02:39 mtj so, for us non-CJK users… there is not much difference in features between solr and zebra , for koha
02:39 jcamins Ideally someone else would pick it up after I wrote up what needed to be done, but most people knew it was a bad idea without trying first.
02:39 dcook The author has done a lot of work, and I certainly wouldn't fault them for getting sick of it
02:40 dcook Bad idea meaning an overly ambition idea?
02:40 jcamins Right.
02:40 mtj but for CJK users, solr gives them a chance at decent search results - that zebra cant
02:40 eythian gar, finally got master building again.
02:41 dcook mtj: I think there are criticisms of Zebra's ability to handle diacritics for roman scripts as well
02:41 wizzyrea confetti!
02:41 wahanui o/ '`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
02:41 dcook Yay eythian!
02:41 wizzyrea confetti makes me laugh every time.
02:41 dcook Certainly, Zebra doesn't play super nicely with ICU...
02:41 jcamins Even though I planned the development so as to be fairly incremental, the fact is even small changes are difficult to make.
02:42 dcook I imagine there must be quite a few factors that contribute that as well, eh, jcamins?
02:42 dcook Being the most highly used module and all
02:42 dcook Or at least one of the most highly used
02:42 bag any rewrite is ambitous ^^^ khall_away see that :)
02:42 jcamins Yes, with some of the worst code.
02:43 jcamins But honestly what made me give up was not the code. It was the process.
02:43 bag oh yeah search has the worst bloated code
02:43 bag maybe more bloated than worse :P
02:43 dcook How do you mean process?
02:43 mtj eythian++
02:46 jcamins In order to get a significant development like the search rewrite into 3.12, several dozen worthy features had to be dropped.
02:47 bag *sigh*
02:47 jcamins And keep in mind, that first patch? That was the simple, low-risk patch!
02:49 jcamins Part of the problem is that there is absolutely no one whose job it is to make sure that Koha continues to progress.
02:49 eythian @later tell gmcharlt can you please put bug 10018 and bug 10061 into master? They're needed for package builds.
02:49 huginn eythian: The operation succeeded.
02:49 bag jcamins: are we ever going to change that?
02:49 jcamins bag: I'm not.
02:49 jcamins And there won't be while Koha isn't part of SPI or some other organization like that.
02:50 bag yup would be nice to have a FTE koha person
02:50 bag I think we will one day…  someone who works for koha :)
02:51 bag only koha
02:51 dcook But one day will only happen if someone makes it happen
02:51 bag I'll make it happen
02:51 dcook :)
02:51 bag give me another year and then that will be my project :)
02:51 bag WE CAN DO IT :)
02:51 dcook Someone who works full time on Koha or to make Koha part of SPI?
02:51 dcook hehe
02:52 * dcook likes bag's optimism
02:52 bag heh
02:52 bag that was a heh for dcook not jcamins [off] :P
02:53 bag nothing is impossible
02:53 dcook bag++
02:53 wizzyrea actually the trolls have been rather quiet lately
02:54 bag that's true
02:54 jcamins wizzyrea: except for any time I send a message to the list, unfortunately.
02:54 bag nobody is picking on you jared
02:54 jcamins I guess more of the responses that I've been ignoring have been directed to me personally, though, haven't they?
02:54 bag it happens to use all
02:55 jcamins bag: I don't think they are.
02:55 bag good
02:55 jcamins What I do think is that those people will prevent us making any forward movement.
02:55 wizzyrea I am sure you'd be happy to be wrong.
02:55 jcamins Very happy.
02:56 bag well let's make you happy :)
02:59 eythian @later tell tcohen your wish is my command* (finally.) New master packages uploaded. [* single use only, not valid any more]
02:59 huginn eythian: The operation succeeded.
03:00 jcamins I honestly believe that if we could organize under SPI or the other organization we could probably fix 75% of our organizational problems in a matter of six months. I just think that our organizational problems will prevent that.
03:02 bag I attended a quaker college.  So I'm used to this sort of organization…  I does drive you crazy at times. but I've always liked it
03:03 jcamins Hm.
03:03 jcamins Is there a bug described in that proprietary file?
03:03 eythian The problem with it is it can make large, sweeping changes very, very difficult.
03:03 eythian jcamins: file?
03:03 wahanui file is saved in the koha server itself
03:04 jcamins eythian: bug 10062.
03:04 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10062 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Attached item from a deleted record
03:04 eythian ah
03:05 eythian word docs appear to be the standard medium for transferring screenshots, for whatever reason.
03:06 wizzyrea i die a little inside each time.
03:06 jcamins I don't even know how one would go about putting screenshots in a Word document.
03:06 eythian wizzyrea has now completed her transformation into a lich, we get so many of them.
03:07 wizzyrea wizzyrea?
03:07 wahanui you are, like, a Cylon, and they all have plans
03:07 wizzyrea no, I'm a robot.
03:07 wizzyrea more like a cyberman really
03:08 jcamins "You are incompatibile"?
03:08 jcamins *incompatible
03:12 bag oh wizzyrea I think nengard rants about that all the time
03:12 bag I think she has written blog posts about that
03:12 dcook hehe
03:12 bag drives her crazy too
03:12 dcook Yes, I get those as well
03:12 dcook The twitching varies from email to email, day to day
03:13 * wizzyrea would never actually tell a librarian that it drives me nuts, because I'm simply thankful that they gave me a screenshot... but I do die a little each time.
03:13 jcamins bag: several blog posts, I think. My favorite comment on one of those was the person who posted "Microsoft Word is a great way to share screenshots."
03:13 bag heh
03:13 mtj sceenshots in word docs is one of my pet peeves, too
03:14 wizzyrea I use shutter on ubuntu, it's as close to jing as you can get with linux.
03:14 rangi just take a screenshot of opening it and send it back
03:14 wizzyrea all of the screen*shot* capabiility
03:14 wizzyrea but no screen*cast* capability
03:14 rangi actually make a movie of opening it and send it as an mp4
03:14 rangi i see you bloat and raise you 50501
03:15 wizzyrea or a .ogg
03:15 wizzyrea that always goes over well.
03:16 jcamins Hehe.
03:17 dcook Subtitles could help with troubleshooting...
03:18 wizzyrea when I do screencasts
03:18 wizzyrea often I do them silently
03:18 wizzyrea but use an input box on the screen to narrate.
03:18 mtj jcamins, fwiw, i think we have gotten much much better at stopping trolls within the project
03:19 wizzyrea and in truth, sometimes those people who impede progress, impede us from doing impossibly stupid things like letting a single company take over.
03:20 rangi[…]laming-precision/
03:20 jcamins mtj: we have, no doubt.
03:20 rangi moar flames
03:20 jcamins I have no idea what it means, but that graph looks *awesome*!
03:20 rangi hehe
03:21 rangi[…]2/mysql-flame.png
03:21 wizzyrea preeeeety
03:21 rangi thats for a stack trace
03:21 rangi you can spot the slow things easier
03:21 rangi (time across the bottom)
03:22 rangi so for perl
03:22 rangi https://timbunce.files.wordpre[…]v5-flamegraph.png
03:23 rangi i suspect it would make some interesting graphs for koha
03:23 eythian[…] <-- wizzyrea, you should use intertitles.
03:23 eythian that one in particular
03:29 bag rangi++  #cool info :)
03:38 * wizzyrea is going to start putting silent movie music on all screencasts
03:38 jcamins wizzyrea: that will make me much more likely to watch your entire screencasts.
03:38 jcamins Especially if they have werewolf-related intertitles.
03:40 wizzyrea keke
03:43 * jcamins notices the time, calls it a night.
03:43 jcamins Good night, #koha.
03:44 eythian later jcamins
03:45 rangi cya jcamins
03:46 bag should we call this time west coast and far coast?
03:46 bag :P
03:47 eythian Both coasts are in the same time zone, so I don't see what it'd change really
03:47 wizzyrea time zone "yesterday"
03:48 dcook G'night, jcamins
03:56 * dcook just found the "maxRecordsForFacets" system preference
03:56 dcook I assume this is the one that has a cap of 500 records mentioned here:[…]lopments-for-koha
03:57 dcook Certainly a handy syspref to know about though!
03:59 dcook Hmm, quite an old preference...
04:00 dcook Also has a default of 20
04:00 dcook 3.03...
04:00 * dcook stops rambling about facets
04:02 bag or facts :P
04:02 bag hehe
04:02 bag just kidding dcook
04:11 cait joined #koha
04:22 dcook bag: :p
04:22 * dcook waves to cait
04:22 * cait waves :)
04:22 bag heya cait
04:24 eythian hi cait
04:26 cait hi eythian
04:27 eythian wahanui: cait is also <reply>go back to bed, cait.
04:27 wahanui okay, eythian.
04:27 dcook I'm not actually seeing any limit to "maxRecordsForFacets"...
04:28 bag should there be a limit?
04:29 bag oh yes limit should be number of results
04:29 dcook I suppose that should be the only limit
04:29 cait dcook: theproblem is performance
04:29 dcook Yeah
04:29 dcook That's what I was about to say
04:29 cait it looks at all records, it would really slow down things
04:29 dcook If you're trying to get facets for thousands of records
04:30 dcook Hmm
04:30 dcook Intriguing
04:30 dcook I suppose this set up allows the librarian to make the call
04:30 dcook Being exhaustive vs. being quick
04:32 dcook 20 seems like a rather low default though
04:32 dcook *shrug*
04:32 cait yeah
04:32 cait we use higher - but not sure how high
04:32 bag ah 20 is fast :)
04:32 cait depends abit on collection size
04:32 dcook 20 is heaps fast hehe
04:33 cait it used to be hardcoded 20 before the sys pref was done
04:33 dcook Ahh
04:33 dcook It still has a hardcoded default if the system preference isn't set
04:33 dcook ++ to whoever put in that syspref
04:33 cait iirc fredericd
04:33 cait but I might be mistaken :)
04:50 eythian @wunder nzwn
04:50 huginn eythian: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 17.0°C (4:00 PM NZST on April 16, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
04:51 dcook @wunder Sydney, Australia
04:51 huginn dcook: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 20.0°C (2:30 PM EST on April 16, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 78%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
04:51 dcook Hmm, looks warmer outside
04:52 bag night all
04:52 wahanui goodnight bag. You'll be back.
04:53 bag :)
04:53 dcook bonne nuit, bag
04:53 dcook Hope it was a decent monday
05:46 cait @wunder Konstanz
05:46 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 12.9°C (7:40 AM CEST on April 16, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.15 in 1021 hPa (Rising).
05:46 dcook Wow...
05:47 dcook That's quite a bit warmer than it has been, isn't it?
05:47 cait yep
05:47 cait we had 24 yesterday
05:47 cait but looks like it rained a bit tonight
05:51 dcook Wow!
05:51 dcook Yay spring!
05:52 dcook I'm off though!
05:52 dcook Be back in a bit!
05:52 cait yep - about time!
05:55 cait for spring and for going home :)
05:59 paul_p joined #koha
06:08 martian742 joined #koha
06:08 martian742 hello there a prospective Koha user from the Czech Republic checking in..
06:09 rangi hi martian742
06:09 cait hi martian742
06:09 * cait waves from Germany
06:09 rangi developer from NZ about to leave to feed his kids
06:09 martian742 rangi: well that is sure more important :)
06:11 martian742 I have a specific Q though: is it easy to stay on the TRUNK version of Koha while continuously pushing in the Czech translation I would be working on?
06:11 martian742 can I stay in sync like that?
06:11 cait of course :)
06:11 cait translations are done with po files
06:11 cait you don#t have to change anything in koha for htat
06:12 cait have you taken a look at ?
06:12 martian742 and would you say that Koha is up to date with the current (or rather long-standing) rules and practices used in the European libraries?
06:12 cait hm it certainly always depends on the libraries
06:12 martian742 cait: I have, the Czech trans. is virtually non-existent
06:13 cait it#s widely used in France now
06:13 cait and we currently support 11 libraries in Germany
06:13 martian742 cait: bummer for PMB
06:13 cait I think PMB is also used
06:13 cait but some universities are using koha now
06:13 cait what kind of library is yours?
06:14 martian742 (PHP My Bibli) which I have been using until now, and the community doesn't feel good to me
06:14 martian742 cait: my case is a small elementary school's lib. of about 4000 books
06:14 rangi its certainly much more feature rich than PMB (its a few years older too)
06:14 rangi koha will scale down to that small :)
06:15 martian742 rangi: installation error: you need to have more than 10k books in your library :D
06:15 cait martian742: koha's community is very alive - as you will see when you stick around a bit longer
06:15 martian742 rangi: just kidding
06:15 rangi martian742: that would be an oracle trick :)
06:16 martian742 cait: well, that's what I'm hoping for, as I'm also an English language-junkie AND have failed to learn French (a PMB community pseudo-req. indeed)
06:17 cait we talk lots about food and cookies
06:17 cait if you are fine with that too you are at the right place ;)
06:17 martian742 cait: need more cookies as well
06:17 martian742 :D
06:17 cait who doesn't? :)
06:17 cait so let's see for czech translations
06:17 martian742 cait: I have seen
06:17 cait ah ok
06:18 cait I guess starting with the opac would be good
06:18 martian742 doesn't exist
06:18 martian742 cait: no, need to start with the core
06:18 cait ah, but that's quite huge
06:18 cait as koha has lots of features
06:18 cait hm
06:18 cait I see that the files are missing
06:18 martian742 my lib. relies on the clerk interface first and foremost
06:18 cait I suggest dropping a mail to - mailing lists are here: mailing lists?
06:18 cait oh come on wahanui
06:18 cait mailing lists?
06:18 wahanui mailing lists are at[…]ha-mailing-lists/
06:19 * magnuse waves from norway
06:19 cait and ask for the files for 3.10 and 3.12 to be added
06:19 cait i think they might not be active somehow in the translation scripts - I could tell you how to gneerate them, but it shoudl be fixed to keep them updates
06:21 cait hope that makes sense
06:21 cait morning magnuse :)
06:21 martian742 cait: it seems that all the Terminology phrases have already been translated ( )
06:22 martian742 cait: what would you judge from that?
06:22 cait @later tell druthb could you check Czech translation on pootle? martian742 might be interested in doing some translation - but 3.10 and 3.12 files are missing :)
06:22 huginn cait: The operation succeeded.
06:22 cait no guarantee she sees it, so mailing list would still be good
06:22 cait I think the termininology things come with pootle
06:23 cait when you take a look at the 3.8 files
06:23 cait you can see there are 3 (now we have 4)
06:23 cait one for prefs (that's only administration, so no need to start with that)
06:23 cait one for opac
06:23 cait and one for intranet
06:23 cait the intranet is huge, partly because it includes all the error messages and the context help
06:23 martian742 cait: awww, right
06:24 cait once the files are up you could also use a local tool for translating, like poedit
06:24 martian742 cait: have been there with PMB, consistency becomes a real issue with that big amount of texts
06:24 cait it might be worth using something that lets you limit to certain templates to get the most important done in the beginning
06:24 cait you can search for templates on pootle too, but if you are the only translator working on something at the time (which it would look like here) sometimes a local editor is faster
06:25 cait and for the rest... installing koha is best done using the packages
06:25 cait packages?
06:25 wahanui well, packages is at
06:25 cait and now i stop spamming you with links :)
06:25 martian742 cait: what I did with PMB was injecting tell-tale code into the PHP, it would display in red, what ID - in the interface itself
06:26 martian742 cait: don‎'t bother stopping :)
06:26 cait I think we have it mostly covered :)
06:27 cait any questions? ;)
06:27 martian742 cait: packages (?) .. avoiding the bot? :) would you recommend against installing the TRUNK version in my case?
06:27 cait not sure what you mean by trunk version :)
06:28 martian742 well what I find in your version control thingy
06:28 cait ah by git
06:28 martian742 the dev edge
06:28 cait if you want to do dev that's the way to go
06:28 cait for translations you could use the beta2 packages or a current 3.10 release
06:29 cait 3.12 will be released on may 22nd - so we are currently working up to that
06:29 martian742 cait: not exactly, but I want my translations to be long lived
06:29 martian742 ee long living
06:29 cait that's hard with Koha as we keep adding stuff all the time :)
06:29 cait but maybe you should start with 3.12 then
06:30 cait we update translations, so we try not to cause more work then necessary
06:30 martian742 cait: yeah, but at least that implies adding translations over time? not reviewing them so much?
06:30 cait meaning you don't have to start over each version
06:30 martian742 cait: right
06:30 martian742 there are FOSS projects that do, I think :(
06:30 cait but there is always quite a bit to do with updated help and new featues and srings going fuzzy from changes in the templates
06:31 martian742 cait: pour me another beer, I'll deal with fuzzy :)
06:31 cait Koha also does bug fix releases every month
06:32 cait every 6 month a big release, every month a bug fix release
06:32 martian742 cait: or do it from my local hackerspace, great environment to brag about such issues :D
06:32 martian742
06:33 cait nice!
06:34 martian742 cait: so do I inject .po files into the local install, does it boil down to that when wanting to edit it locally in the first approach?
06:36 cait hm maybe take a loo here to see how it works:
06:36 cait additional languages?
06:36 cait add additional languages?
06:36 cait I thought I taught him
06:36 cait installing additonal languages?
06:36 martian742 cait: bad doggie
06:37 christophe_c joined #koha
06:37 cait installing additional languages is[…]ANET_staff_client
06:37 cait add languages is[…]ANET_staff_client
06:37 christophe_c hello #koha
06:37 cait wahanui add languages?
06:37 wahanui add languages is[…]ANET_staff_client
06:37 cait wahanui botsnack cookie
06:37 wahanui :)
06:41 martian742 cait: thanks a lot
06:42 martian742 cait: still, if I may, this is something FOSS people want to know how to do properly:
06:43 reiveune joined #koha
06:43 martian742 could you advocate for Koha, compare it to other FOSS ILSs..
06:43 cait you just have to hurry a bit with your question - as i have to go to work in 5 :)
06:43 reiveune hello
06:43 martian742 why should I not invest my time in Evergreen for example
06:43 cait hm not sure I understand your question, can you explain?
06:44 cait oh
06:44 cait evergreen people hang around here too - so maybe better ask them
06:44 cait I think installation is a bit more difficult
06:44 martian742 they already have a good bit translated into Czech
06:44 cait which was one of the main reasons I ended up with koha :)
06:44 martian742 cait: that's what figure, after trying it
06:45 cait I have never used Evergreen - so I really don't want to say something wrong
06:45 magnuse there is a nice comparison thingy for koha and evergreen
06:45 cait maybe take a look at your demo and theirs?
06:45 martian742 cait: and since the people hang around here, I better ask them ;-)
06:45 cait compare what looks better for you?
06:45 magnuse i can never remember where, though...
06:45 martian742 cait: yup!
06:45 cait as it's US try a bit later of course :)
06:45 cait they have their own chat too - which might be the more direct way :)
06:45 martian742 cait: NZ there?
06:46 cait NZ has gone to feed the kids :P
06:46 cait well, one of them
06:46 wahanui one of them is, like, bound to have a good idea ;)
06:46 cait 10 hours now from here, so early evening there now
06:46 cait evergreen is mostly american i think
06:46 martian742 cait: right
06:47 martian742 haven't been in an overseas relationship for a bit now, don't have the hang of it anymore :)
06:47 martian742 cait: my hackerspace channel is currently talking about whipped cream
06:47 cait koha is very international, perhaps a bitmore than evergreen is right now
06:48 martian742 see? cookies are important everywhere
06:48 magnuse martian742: might be of interest
06:48 senator joined #koha
06:49 cait martian742: have to run - but luckily my day time job is also koha - so will be back with my second identity later
06:49 martian742 cait: sweet
06:49 martian742 cait: thanks for all the fish
06:50 magnuse ah "The features are updated through Koha version 3.8 and Evergreen version 2.2" - there has been a lot of development since 3.8
06:50 cait left #koha
06:50 magnuse cait++ for being helpful
06:50 martian742 magnuse: also, the site looks a bit empty
06:50 martian742 like it's not loaded with data
06:50 magnuse there's stuff under the "Browse" tab
06:51 magnuse but it also says "prototype version 20120410-a "
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06:51 martian742 magnuse: right, + paranoid me had to enable JavaScript in my bro'ser
06:51 magnuse ah :-)
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06:55 martian742 magnuse: would you say that librarians generally hang around here? I'm not, I have holes in the best practices including cataloguing
06:59 magnuse martian742: there are some librarians, but not a lot
06:59 magnuse if you want to talk to librarians, the main mailing list is probably a better bet
07:00 magnuse i was trained as a librarian, in fact, but i never did any serious cataloguing...
07:01 martian742 magnuse: since they don't spend much time on the IRC, unlike other computer nerds :)
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07:01 martian742 sure, will do
07:01 magnuse hehe
07:01 martian742 where I live, the librarian nerds are qutie progressive though
07:02 magnuse yay for progressive librarian nerds! :-)
07:02 martian742 should motivate them into FOSS ILS
07:02 magnuse you should!
07:02 magnuse the more the merrier
07:02 martian742 they even did a naked charity calendar, shot entirely in a library
07:02 magnuse hehe, now that is progressive ;-)
07:02 martian742 yep
07:05 mtj naked_librarians++
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07:31 * dcook waves to the BibLibre folk
07:35 martian742 interestingly, there are also 58 people on the Evergreen IRC chan :)
07:38 dcook That is rather odd
07:38 gaetan_B joined #koha
07:39 dcook allo gaetan_B
07:40 gaetan_B allo dcook :)
07:41 dcook How goes the day in France?
07:41 gaetan_B dcook: well, i'm in Irak right now ;)
07:41 gaetan_B in Kurdistan to be more precise
07:41 gaetan_B what about you :p ?
07:42 dcook A bit less exciting. I'm still/back in Australia
07:42 dcook But a good day all in all :)
07:44 dcook What takes you to Irak/Kurdistan?
07:44 kf joined #koha
07:46 dcook wb kf
07:47 kf thx dcook
07:47 kf and good morning #koha again
07:48 gaetan_B dcook: a project with a university here :)
07:48 gaetan_B hallo kf :)
07:49 kf hi gaetan_B
07:49 kf :)
07:49 kf are we on the big screen again?
07:49 gaetan_B kf: not now :)
07:50 kf but more training today? :)
07:50 magnuse koha can take you to some interesting places...
07:50 gaetan_B kf: this week i am not really giving a training, it only setting up stuff, and understanding how they work so that we can come up with a reasonable set-up
07:50 gaetan_B theey are quite demanding and ambitious i must say !
07:51 gaetan_B but i'm trying to make it as simple and fool proof as possible
07:51 gaetan_B i don't them to get confused with all the possible MARC21 fields
07:51 kf sounds like a typical library :)
07:51 gaetan_B :D
07:51 gaetan_B it's not so typical i can tell you ;)
07:51 gaetan_B by the way
07:52 gaetan_B how does the default display for results and detailed records work in marc21 ?
07:52 gaetan_B are the name of the fields taken from the frameworks or are they in the templates ?
07:52 gaetan_B and if so is there a way i can get the list of fields that display somewhere ?
07:52 gaetan_B or should i fill a record with all the possible fields and see ?
07:53 kf gaetan_B: do you mean tehe default setting for the xslt prefs?
07:53 gaetan_B kf: i mean not using the xslt at all
07:53 kf or the normal display (leave empty) in the prefs
07:53 kf ah
07:53 magnuse gaetan_B: look at the xslt for lists and details, perhaps?
07:53 kf we are only using the xslt
07:53 kf I would almost recommend using it
07:53 kf well... I think I do recommend it
07:53 * magnuse recommends it too
07:53 gaetan_B using the xslt means getting involved into some really murky translation to kurdish and arabic for different xslts, which i want to avoid at all costs
07:53 kf um no
07:54 kf I don't think so
07:54 kf the fields are in the po file so or so
07:54 dcook Hey gaetan_B, I might have some answers
07:54 dcook We don't use xslt over here
07:54 kf they get translated with the po file, only if you have custom stylesheets you have to
07:54 gaetan_B i would never use anything else than xslt for a french library
07:54 gaetan_B but if i get into this here, i know it's going to get *really* complicated
07:55 gaetan_B dcook: i'm interested :)
07:55 kf gaetan_B: hm not sure I understand the problem
07:55 kf gaetan_B: maybe you are always using a custom stylesheet with french?
07:55 gaetan_B kf the default xslt get translated as well ?
07:55 kf yep
07:55 gaetan_B i'll give it a try then :)
07:55 gaetan_B that's pretty good news
07:55 kf they will more or less accidentally translate it
07:55 dcook For a non-XSLT display, the display is hardcoded into the templates. They're not related to the frameworks.
07:55 kf I would give it a try
07:55 gaetan_B kf: we always use custom stylesheets indeed
07:55 dcook Well, the non-XSLT, "Normal" display
07:55 kf it's pat of the opac po file
07:56 dcook The frameworks will change what appears in the "MARC" display
07:56 kf yep what dcook says :)
07:56 kf I guess that's the same for both displays - labels are hardcoded
07:56 kf but xslt shows a lot more and is better maintained
07:56 dcook But XSLT are far easier to change
07:56 dcook Yep
07:56 dcook If I had the option, I'd use XSLT for sure
07:56 gaetan_B dcook: ok good, this is all very reassuring :)
07:56 dcook Difficult for librarians to maintain, but easier for developers
07:57 gaetan_B the translation project is going to be quite action packed i think
07:57 dcook (Unless those librarians understand XML and XSL)
07:57 dcook What sort of language and script are used there?
07:57 gaetan_B typing bi directionnal text (which we will not be able to avoid in the translation) is maybe the most confusing thing i have experienced
07:57 * dcook has never met anyone from Iraq
07:58 gaetan_B dcook: in the south it's an arabic dialect
07:58 gaetan_B but here it's kurdish
07:58 gaetan_B which is an indo-germanic language
07:58 gaetan_B somewhat related to russian too it seems
07:58 dcook Interesting..
07:58 wahanui i guess interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
07:58 gaetan_B but it is written with a variant of the arabic scritp
07:58 dcook Yes, wahanui.
07:58 wahanui dcook: huh?
07:58 gaetan_B so right to left
07:58 dcook Mmm, ok
07:59 dcook I think Karam Qubsi has recently submitted some patches in relation to bi directional text
07:59 * dcook thinks that kf commented on those as well
07:59 gaetan_B dcook: yes, i have seen this and i was very happy about it, they came in right in time for  :)
07:59 gaetan_B the project
07:59 wahanui hmmm... the project is the better for it.
07:59 gaetan_B :D
07:59 dcook What they said :p
08:00 dcook So they're doing the whole translation for kurdish?
08:00 kf :)
08:01 kf he has another patch waiting for the ccsr opac - if someone wanted to give that a whirl ;)
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08:03 dcook bonjour paul_p
08:03 dcook kf: Hmm, I'm never sure how to go about properly testing patches for bidi or UNIMARC, since I never use either
08:05 kf dcook: I think in that case do a regression test :)
08:05 kf make sure it doesn't break the english ccsr opac/normal opac
08:06 dcook Glancing at the code, it looks good ;)
08:06 dcook I just wonder if there's a typo in the css somewhere
08:06 kf another way to test is install arabic
08:06 kf and browse the opac a bit
08:06 kf maybe check the css with a validator
08:07 gaetan_B i have to disconnect, see you later
08:07 kf bye gaetan_B
08:07 dcook ta gaetan_B
08:07 dcook Hmm, true enough
08:09 kf martian742: talking to evergreen people now? :)
08:19 dcook Huh...
08:20 dcook Looks like you can renew books for a restricted patron in 3.8
08:22 kf there might be a pref about that, but not sure
08:22 dcook Hmm, I'll take a look
08:22 dcook Happens on master too in any case
08:22 * dcook really needs to use his dev system more often..
08:23 dcook I love using master...
08:23 kf might be worht filing a bug if it's not a pref
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08:24 dcook Hmm, don't see a pref for "restrict" or "debar"
08:24 kf hm look for renew
08:25 dcook Nothing
08:25 kf ok
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08:25 kf 8236
08:25 kf bug 8236
08:25 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8236 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha, Signed Off , Prevent renewing if overdue or restriction
08:26 dcook Nice, kf!
08:26 dcook wb gaetan_B
08:27 gaetan_B dcook: leaving agin ;)
08:27 dcook I'll be more frugal with my wbs next time ;)
08:27 kf dcook: looks like it's about staff not opac maybe
08:27 kf hm might still be worth taking a look
08:28 dcook Hmm, that's a good point too
08:28 kf I would think a restricted patron shoudl not be able to do anything in opac
08:28 dcook I haven't checked
08:28 kf but not sure all libraries would agree
08:28 dcook This issue came to me from the staff client
08:28 kf but that's the point of blocking an account? for example in cases of lost cards?
08:28 dcook I looked at the restricted patron interface a while ago, but I'll look again
08:29 dcook I think the self-reg has an option to have them restricted as well
08:29 dcook To prevent abuse
08:31 dcook Hmm, instead of reading the history, I'll just read the latest patch..heh
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08:38 dcook Blah...
08:39 dcook Yay for splinter review...
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08:45 dcook Thanks again for pointing this bug out, kf
08:46 magnuse kf is pretty awesome for remembering bugs
08:47 * kf has a weird brain
08:47 magnuse dcook: i was remninded of Bug 6739 too
08:47 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6739 major, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, Needs Signoff , expired patrons not blocked from opac actions
08:47 kf ah yes
08:47 magnuse good weird, then
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08:50 dcook Hmm...
08:50 dcook Would it be bad form if I "fail QAed" a patch that was already signed off?
08:51 kf no if there is a bug
08:51 kf just write a nice note
08:52 kf and explain why you think it can't go in like it is
08:53 dcook Sounds good
08:53 dcook :)
08:54 dcook Man..."IsMemberBlocked" is so not documented correctly...
08:56 kf probably old code
08:56 kf and also restriction proces changed..
08:58 dcook The code is good. Just the documentation is wrong :)
08:58 dcook Time to report a bug..
08:58 dcook And maybe do it tomorrow..
08:59 dcook This is the latest I've been at work in ages
09:01 dcook Quick question...what is "ILSDI/"?
09:02 magnuse dcook:[…]298acdc5c;hb=HEAD
09:02 magnuse i presume...
09:02 dcook Yeah, I just started reading through it, but I'm not sure I get it
09:03 dcook Looks like a digital library thing perhaps...
09:04 dcook
09:04 dcook Mmm
09:04 dcook For interacting with discovery layers like VuFind
09:04 dcook Neato. I was wondering how patrons could place holds in Koha through VuFind
09:05 magnuse it's a protocol/webservice thing for listing current loans, renewing etc
09:05 magnuse the implementation in koha is self documenting, e.g.:
09:09 dcook Thanks, magnuse
09:09 dcook This is really neat
09:10 dcook We've been talking a bit about discovery layers recently, and this provides the missing piece that I wasn't sure how to solve theoretically
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09:11 magnuse yay!
09:11 magnuse and hiya tajoli
09:12 tajoli and hi to all
09:15 dcook hey ya tajoli
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09:25 kf hi tajoli
09:57 dcook All right. About time for this goose to head home
09:57 dcook later magnuse, kf, all :)
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11:07 magnus heh "Guide on the Side is an open-source application and, obviously, you have full permission to change it however you want. But you shouldn't."
11:07 magnus good advice :-)
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11:10 drojf hi #koha
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12:17 kf1 @wunder Konstanz
12:17 huginn kf1: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 18.0°C (2:00 PM CEST on April 16, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 58%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 30.14 in 1021 hPa (Falling).
12:18 tcohen hi kf1
12:18 tcohen @wunder cordoba, argentina
12:18 huginn tcohen: The current temperature in Cordoba, Argentina is 16.0°C (9:00 AM ART on April 16, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Steady).
12:18 kf :)
12:18 kf oh warmer than in argentina!
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12:19 oleonard Hi #koha
12:20 kf hi oleonard :)
12:21 kf @wunder Athens, OH
12:21 huginn kf: The current temperature in OHDOT 31-Athens County Garage, Athens, Ohio is 16.1°C (7:51 AM EDT on April 16, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 69%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 30.13 in 1020 hPa (Rising).
12:21 kf was that right?
12:22 oleonard Yes :)
12:22 oleonard Very nice spring day today
12:33 kf @wunder Konstanz
12:33 kf ;)
12:33 huginn kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 19.3°C (2:25 PM CEST on April 16, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 30.15 in 1021 hPa (Rising).
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12:37 nengard @wunder 19030
12:38 huginn nengard: The current temperature in JAT Observatory, Fairless Hills, Pennsylvania is 13.3°C (8:33 AM EDT on April 16, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 73%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 30.31 in 1026 hPa (Steady).
12:41 tcohen eythian++
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12:51 magnuse @wunder boo
12:51 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 9.0°C (2:20 PM CEST on April 16, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 62%. Dew Point: 2.0°C. Pressure: 29.71 in 1006 hPa (Steady).
12:51 magnuse not bad!
12:52 magnuse wow, norway is going bieber-crazy
12:55 jenkins_koha Starting build #37 for job Koha_Docs_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
12:55 jenkins_koha Starting build #320 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: SUCCESS)
12:55 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs_3.10.x build #37: SUCCESS in 15 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]a_Docs_3.10.x/37/
12:55 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: fix typo reported by Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel
12:55 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs build #320: SUCCESS in 15 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ob/Koha_Docs/320/
12:55 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: fix typo reported by Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel
12:58 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
12:58 huginn drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 18.1°C (2:43 PM CEST on April 16, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 50%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Falling).
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13:07 oleonard kf: Did you create a bug for updating the invoice page template?
13:08 druthb o/
13:08 kf oleonard: sorry no - I only noticed when I started working on the terms clean up
13:08 oleonard Okay I'll file one. I'm working on that now.
13:09 kf oleonard: nice!
13:09 kf oleonard: maybe put it on top of the string changes? not sure if that would work
13:09 oleonard I think that would work
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13:10 jenkins_koha Starting build #321 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: SUCCESS)
13:10 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs build #321: SUCCESS in 19 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ob/Koha_Docs/321/
13:10 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: add OPACPopupAuthorsSearch
13:14 oleonard I had started to work on a patch for that page several months ago and got distracted by something...
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13:25 jenkins_koha Starting build #322 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: SUCCESS)
13:25 magnuse distractions--
13:25 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs build #322: SUCCESS in 20 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ob/Koha_Docs/322/
13:25 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: add OPACPopupAuthorsSearch description
13:27 oleonard kf: Can I ask you an acquisitions workflow question?
13:27 oleonard (or anyone else who has opinions on acquisitions workflows)
13:27 kf in a minute
13:45 kf here now :)
13:47 kf oleonard: ?
13:48 oleonard On the invoice view/edit page (/cgi-bin/koha/acqui/ there is a link "Go to receipt page"
13:48 kf hm yes, maybe we should rename that
13:48 oleonard That link is awkwardly-placed, and I'm curious where it fits into the workflow
13:49 kf it's a good question
13:49 kf I think probably because you could only do/undo some actions from the parcels/shipment/need a good name for it page
13:49 kf and not from the invoice page that seems more to be like a summary/view
13:50 kf what I have wondered is about closing invoices and which consequences it has
13:50 kf it seems acq is getting more and more complicated and I wonder which steps can be missed/not done
13:50 kf but I haven't had time to take a really good look at it
13:50 kf like seeing how closed/unclosed invoices show up in other places
13:51 oleonard I'll leave it for another patch since there isn't an obvious answer to what to do with it.
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13:52 drojf university_wifi--
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13:58 kf oleonard: sounds like a good idea
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14:49 tcohen bug 9735 could help debugging some translation problmes
14:49 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9735 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Signed Off , Choose language using URL parameters in any page
14:51 drojf i tried to test a patch i made. installation goes fine but when i try to create a staff user, it does not work. i get »This patron does not exist.«. Is that a sign that i missed something when installing?
14:52 nengard kf or other qa person - bug 9850 needs qa and to make it in to 3.12
14:52 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9850 normal, P5 - low, ---, nengard, Signed Off , Koha 3.12 Help Files Update
14:52 nengard it's all just text patches now
14:54 kf nengard: it won't go faster because you ask every day
14:54 nengard it might
14:54 nengard if you all want to shut me up
14:54 nengard :)
14:54 kf don't think so :)
14:54 nengard k - off to a webinar
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14:56 drojf hm. it worked after choosing a library. i don't think i had to do this before.
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15:03 tcohen jcamins, you mentioned (yesterday) a bug related to UTF8 doble encoding?
15:04 jcamins Bug 6554.
15:04 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6554 critical, P3, ---, dpavlin, Passed QA , Resolve encoding problems with corrected UTF8 handling in templates
15:04 jcamins I have to consult with gmcharlt about how to go about pushing the follow-up that was placed on the same bug.
15:05 gmcharlt jcamins: hmm?
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15:06 jcamins gmcharlt: I don't want to make it impossible for you to revert 6554, should that become necessary, but if I push a follow-up to the bug_6554 branch, reverting will get more complicated.
15:07 jcamins Though you may have more experience with reverting and therefore not end up with a screwed up branch every time you try to revert more than one merge on a given branch.
15:08 gmcharlt jcamins: yeah, I can't say I'm too concerned; if nothing else, I can always default to reverting the commits individually
15:09 jcamins Okay. Next time I'm pushing I'll take a look at that one.
15:09 jcamins Unless you beat me to it.
15:15 magnuse tcohen: yeah, something changed, so at least when you ad users as the db user, you have a blank option at the top of the libraries dropdown
15:21 gmcharlt jcamins: 10061 is a candidate for 3.12, 10018 is not
15:21 tcohen are u confusing me with drojf, magnuse?
15:21 jcamins bug 10061
15:21 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10061 critical, P2, ---, robin, Passed QA , Fix the tiny_mce error when building packages
15:22 jcamins bug 10018
15:22 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10018 major, P3, ---, robin, Passed QA , Building version update for master/3.13
15:22 jcamins gmcharlt: right.
15:22 magnuse tcohen: yeah i am, sorry about that...
15:22 tcohen np
15:23 drojf thanks magnuse. would have saved me an hour to ask earlier. because i just installed again ^^
15:23 drojf and tried the next time :D
15:23 jcamins I'm cherry-picking and not merging so I should notice things like that.
15:24 jcamins Side note: surely they mean 256MB of RAM, not 256k/RAM.
15:24 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Merge remote branch 'origin/new/bug_10018_10061_deb_pkg_fixes' <[…]6187c8b357a13763e> / Bug 10061 - Fix tinymce path references broken by bug 9172 <[…]65f868f4614f2063d> / Bug 10018 - version update for 3.13 <[…]web/?p=koha.git;a
15:25 gmcharlt cool -- and in the bugs, I'll leave comments if I think something is a candidate for 3.12.x
15:25 jcamins Thanks.
15:26 jenkins_koha Starting build #1140 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
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15:29 tcohen hmm, internet says utf8::decode shouldn't be used, Encode::decode instead
15:33 drojf if i don't want to link records, can i just skip 001 or do i need it for something else? (if there is no union catalogue or other kind of record sharing)
15:34 jcamins You can skip 001.
15:35 jcamins Most do.
15:35 drojf yay!
15:35 drojf thanks jcamins
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15:47 tcohen jcamins, i've learnt that utf8 and UTF-8 mean different things in Perl
15:48 jcamins I did not know that, actually.
15:48 tcohen and thus, utf8::decode and Encode::decode('UTF-8',XX) are not expected to work the same
15:48 tcohen i'm just reading about it
15:48 tcohen it seems that UTF-8 means "the strict, safe implementation of the standard"
15:48 tcohen and utf8 a loose implementation prior to the standarization
15:49 tcohen I'm not sure the implications in Koha
15:49 tcohen but sounds like some UTF-8 errors will not be catched by utf8
15:50 tcohen i'll try fixing every call and see the results
15:50 tcohen maybe some arab records could help
15:51 jcamins I suspect probably we have to use utf8 due to the poor quality of the UTF-8 encoding used by most MARC records.
15:52 tcohen unfortunately, yes
15:53 tcohen that, and mysql's  utf8 collation being case insensitive are two big sources of problems for Koha I guess
15:54 tcohen i have a possitive feeling about the utf8 vs. UTF-8 issue
15:54 tcohen I feel most of the charset related problems we've seen
15:55 tcohen will be catched by our code in a better way
15:56 tcohen (I mean, the problems have been around anyway, with Koha breaking because of them)
16:01 * tcohen is scared
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16:28 vfernandes hi :)
16:28 vfernandes one question: i'm having the following problem when editing MARC21 authorities in koha 3.10.3: ZOOM error 114 "Unsupported Use attribute" (addinfo: "Koha-Auth-Number") from diag-set 'Bib-1'
16:28 vfernandes what's wrong?
16:28 wahanui I only know what you teach me.
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16:35 vfernandes any one had this problem?
16:35 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1140: SUCCESS in 1 hr 9 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1140/
16:35 jenkins_koha * Robin Sheat: Bug 10018 - version update for 3.13
16:35 jenkins_koha * Robin Sheat: Bug 10061 - Fix tinymce path references broken by bug 9172
16:35 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10018 major, P3, ---, robin, Pushed to Master , Building version update for master/3.13
16:35 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10061 critical, P2, ---, robin, Pushed to Master , Fix the tiny_mce error when building packages
16:35 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9172 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Move TinyMCE library outside of language-specific directory
16:37 vfernandes joined #koha
16:55 vfernandes ZOOM error 114 "Unsupported Use attribute" (addinfo: "Koha-Auth-Number") from diag-set 'Bib-1'
16:55 vfernandes using MARC21 authorities with DOM
17:23 tater joined #koha
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17:31 cait joined #koha
17:59 druthb joined #koha
18:04 * druthb waves to nengard
18:04 nengard hiya
18:07 martian523 joined #koha
18:08 martian523 hi i'm using KOHA 3.10 and i'm wondering if koha field "stocknumber" can be displayed when doing batch item modification in the edit item section
18:14 oleonard What subfield is that martian523?
18:14 martian523 952 i
18:15 drojf joined #koha
18:17 oleonard martian523: Looks like that subfield is explicitly excluded by the script. Presumably because it would be considered fairly unusual to modify multiple records with the same value there.
18:22 oleonard martian523: Does that make sense?
18:26 tcohen jcamins, I filled a bug on the UTF-8 thing
18:26 jcamins I saw, thanks.
18:26 tcohen i've been working on a patch for it
18:26 tcohen its pretty simple
18:27 tcohen but have concerns on error checking
18:27 tcohen (we have too little of it)
18:27 tcohen and Encode expects eval blocks for evaluating the conversion
18:28 tcohen so everything gets boureaucratic
18:28 tcohen anyway, gotta leave now, bye #koha
18:29 jcamins eval blocks are fine if you catch the error.
18:29 jcamins Otherwise they're dreadful.
18:48 melia how can I tell if a patch that has been pushed to master is also going to get into 3.10.x stable? specifically, I'm wondering about bug 9902
18:48 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9902 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Master , item subfields not populating
18:49 melia should I expect to see that pushed to stable 3.10.x at some point in the future, or is a new patch needed for that to happen?
18:49 oleonard Ask the release maintainer I suppose melia?
18:49 oleonard melia: You could make sure it applies to 3.10.x
18:49 melia they're still sleeping in NZ now, aren't they? I am always asking questions while they're still sleeping!
18:50 jcamins They should be waking up soon.
18:50 oleonard This is usually when rangi appears though not quite work time for him I think
18:51 melia ok thanks guys!  I will check back with rangi later on, after he's had a chance to eat his breakfast and stuff :)
18:55 oleonard Trying a Bootstrap OPAC:
18:56 oleonard I'm curious about the placement of the Cart and Lists buttons in the fixed header. I wonder if people find them there in the CCSR theme
18:59 jcamins oleonard: yay!
18:59 jcamins And I'm not sure... I feel like when there's a fixed toolbar I expect everything to be in that toolbar, not just some of the stuff.
19:01 * cait waves
19:04 * jcamins waves back
19:12 * druthb waves with both hands.
19:12 druthb \o/
19:28 cait :)
19:29 tcohen joined #koha
19:35 nengard question - SvcMaxReportRows - what is the reports web service?
19:35 nengard is it public reports?
19:35 nengard or something else?
19:35 nengard for the manual
19:37 jcamins Yeah, basically public reports.
19:44 oleonard Here's a version with more CCSR styling and the Koha logo in the navbar:
19:44 bgkriegel joined #koha
19:44 cait :)
19:45 gmcharlt oleonard++
19:46 cait i like it
19:47 cait maybe we coul dhave a less grey version too? :)
19:47 druthb oleonard++
19:47 oleonard I'm open to suggestions. Right now the only preferences I've heard is that people like the style of CCSR
19:48 cait i tihnk people like the mobile part of it
19:48 cait I mean that's the main argument
19:49 cait oleonard: is there a chance we could replace the yui grid in the opac in a new template?
19:49 oleonard That's what this version does
19:50 oleonard Bootstrap grid including responsive layout
19:50 cait oh nice!
19:50 cait sorry, I think I missed that earlier
19:50 cait today is a weird day
19:50 oleonard No you didn't miss that. I didn't say.
19:51 cait well it's really cool :) oleonard++
19:52 jcamins I tend to favor a rather austere color scheme (for instance ) but my reason for liking CCSR was that it worked well on my phone.
19:53 oleonard We had austere in the staff client for a long time jcamins and then the masses revolted :P
19:53 bgkriegel austere? no color at all :-)
19:55 * cait didn't
19:55 cait but I think the masses really like the color
19:55 cait getting positive feedback from others about the change
19:55 jenkins_koha Starting build #38 for job Koha_Docs_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
19:55 jenkins_koha Starting build #323 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: SUCCESS)
19:55 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs_3.10.x build #38: SUCCESS in 15 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]a_Docs_3.10.x/38/
19:55 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: add SvcMaxReportRows
19:55 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs build #323: SUCCESS in 14 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ob/Koha_Docs/323/
19:55 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: add SvcMaxReportRows
19:56 jcamins bgkriegel: isn't that what I said? :P
19:56 bgkriegel yes of course :-)
19:57 jcamins I'm thinking of maybe adding some color.
19:57 jcamins Eventually.
19:57 oleonard Maybe just one.
19:57 rambutan Has anybody ever hooked one of the book dispensing kiosks up to Koha (via SIP, I mean)? At one time we were thinking about getting one or more of them.
19:58 jcamins Hey, off-white is a color!
19:58 rambutan
19:58 jcamins I have three shades of off-white!
19:59 rambutan This is what got me thinking about it again...
19:59 rambutan http://urbanlibrariansunite.or[…]e-mini-libraries/
19:59 rambutan jcamins: have you ever seen one of those?
20:02 jcamins rambutanI have not, but I'd heard about them.
20:02 pastebot "tcohen" at pasted "Like this jcamins?" (3 lines) at
20:03 jcamins tcohen: that seems reasonable to me, but run it by rangi. He'd know better how to do error handling with that.
20:04 kathryn joined #koha
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20:13 jatara Quick question: if the permanent shelving location was configured incorrectly when the book was added to Koha, where can I go to change it? The "Edit Items" screen doesn't have that option.
20:14 cait jatara: it has no real item field, i think you can only do it using sql
20:14 cait but I think you only need it when you are using the cart/proc feature
20:15 jatara I have items in my catalog that are showing up as PROC, long after they've been moved to the library and have been checked in/out multiple times. I'm wondering if the permanent location was configured incorrectly.
20:16 cait we aren't using that feature, I am not entirely sure if it works right
20:25 drojf cait: for 10050, do you want me to see if the things show up in the installer&staff client or actually look trhough the sql?
20:25 cait whatever you seefit
20:25 cait for a sign off :)
20:27 rambutan @seen melia_lunch
20:27 huginn rambutan: melia_lunch was last seen in #koha 41 weeks, 3 days, 23 hours, 1 minute, and 34 seconds ago: <melia_lunch> yay! thank you so much
20:27 rambutan @seen melia
20:27 huginn rambutan: melia was last seen in #koha 1 hour, 36 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <melia> ok thanks guys!  I will check back with rangi later on, after he's had a chance to eat his breakfast and stuff :)
20:30 drojf cait: the sysadmins get geduzt and the librarians gesiezt? :D
20:30 cait huh?
20:30 drojf bitte installiere grundlegende… maybe it has always been like this
20:31 drojf no it is "sie" in the next step again. :D
20:31 cait yeah I think I didn't touch that
20:31 cait fix it in the po file? :)
20:33 cait maybe we should do it like wordpress ;)
20:33 cait they have formal and not so formal german
20:34 drojf we could have several variants of gendered german too ;)
20:34 cait heh
20:35 cait now i am going to have translation nightmares
20:35 drojf lol
20:36 drojf hmm i cannot make pootle search… ah there it is, just needs a little complaining :P
20:36 cait heh
21:06 melia rambutan: were you looking for me?
21:10 cait left #koha
21:16 rangi @later tell tcohen your eval works fine .. but Try::Tiny (is in perl core now) is a bit nicer
21:16 huginn rangi: The operation succeeded.
21:16 rangi @later tell tcohen[…]2/lib/Try/
21:16 huginn rangi: The operation succeeded.
21:16 gmcharlt Try::Tiny++
21:19 melia good morning rangi!  there was something I was going to ask you about…
21:19 melia oh yeah, I remember. bug 9902 - is that going to get into a 3.10.x stable release? or do you need a new patch for 3.10?  (I haven't tried yet to see if it'll apply to 3.10, btw)
21:19 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9902 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Master , item subfields not populating
21:20 drnoe joined #koha
21:30 rangi not in 3.10.5 but maybe after its released, its in freeze at the moment but if it applies it could go in 3.10.6
21:34 aquaman1 joined #koha
21:35 mcooper joined #koha
21:46 jcamins Apparently it was a banana in the garden of Eden, not an apple or a pomegranate.
21:50 * jcamins heads home.
21:52 rambutan joined #koha
22:00 rangi hmm does anyone know of a library that has an opac that uses analytics well?
22:01 aquaman joined #koha
22:02 bag hmmm….
22:02 bag well I don't know what using analytics well is…
22:03 bag but I think we have a few academics that are using it
22:04 melia thanks rangi
22:05 aquaman /nick aquaman
22:18 eythian jcamins: you around?
22:18 eythian also, hi
22:27 maximep left #koha
22:32 eythian yay, master now builds into packages correctly with no modification once again.
22:50 rambutan joined #koha
22:51 rambutan left #koha
22:58 jcamins rangi: hfjs
22:58 jcamins eythian: yes.
22:58 jcamins Briefly.
22:58 eythian jcamins: awesome, I have an exciting analytics question for you.
22:58 * jcamins gets suitably excited.
22:59 eythian jcamins: I have some articles that have a 773$w set the 001 of their host record. What else do I need to set up on each record to make them see each other.
22:59 jcamins You set the leaders?
22:59 eythian I'm not sure what they should be set to
22:59 jcamins That's the big one.
22:59 jcamins Let me check the position.
23:00 jcamins For the host records, are they books are journals, or...
23:01 jcamins (that was an open-ended question)
23:01 eythian journals, serials, etc primarily I think
23:02 jcamins Okay.
23:02 jcamins So the host records will have LDR/07=s
23:02 jcamins Articles will have LDR/07=a
23:02 jcamins And that should be all you need, actually.
23:05 eythian if I have LDR7 as "a - Monographic component part" it doesn't create the link to the host record.
23:05 jcamins Odd.
23:06 jcamins And you turned on UseControlNumbers?
23:06 eythian If I set LDR7=s on the host, I do get "show analytics"
23:06 eythian "No system preferences matched your search for usecontrolnumbers."
23:07 jcamins UseControlNumber?
23:07 jcamins It's something like that.
23:07 jcamins Search for "Control"
23:07 eythian ah yep
23:07 wahanui joined #koha
23:07 eythian it was off, now on
23:08 eythian however that seems to make no change
23:09 eythian when I hit the "show analytics" link, I also get "No results match your search for 'rcn:505373.20130415 and (bib-level:a or bib-level:b)'."
23:09 jcamins Hm.
23:09 eythian also, I'm hitting that on the host...why would it be looking for a specific rcn.
23:09 eythian ?
23:09 eythian (because the rcn is on the host, right?)
23:10 jcamins Right, but you've put that into the 773.
23:10 eythian (or do we index it such that rcn also matches 773?)
23:10 jcamins I think rcn is 773 only, and Control-number is 001 only.
23:10 jcamins Though something about that seems... wrong.
23:10 eythian OK
23:11 jcamins And your indexes are up to date, right?
23:12 eythian yep. Hmm. I did just notice that I'm not creating the 773$w value correctly, that won't be helping. Though it shouldn't imact on whether the link shows up I'd think.
23:12 jcamins There should be a link showing up regardless.
23:12 jcamins Even without the control number.
23:12 jcamins It'd just be a search on main entry/title without the control number.
23:13 jcamins Oh.
23:13 jcamins You have something in 773$a and/or 773$t, right?
23:14 eythian I have 773$w, $t, and $g
23:14 jcamins And do you see the $t/$g?
23:14 jcamins But without any link?
23:14 eythian that's right
23:14 wahanui no it's not.
23:15 jcamins lol
23:15 eythian they appear below the article title
23:15 jcamins Boy he's quick to disagree.
23:15 eythian heh
23:15 eythian thusly:
23:15 eythian The key principles of social media development
23:15 eythian Strategic communication management Volume 14, Issue 1 Dec/Jan 2010, p. 8
23:15 eythian Author(s): Chestney, Ross.
23:15 eythian where "Strategic..." is the $t and $g
23:15 eythian and not a link
23:16 jcamins What happens if you set ind1 to 0?
23:17 dcook joined #koha
23:17 eythian are indicator positions 0 based, or 1 based?
23:17 eythian (i.e. is ind1 the first or second?)
23:17 jcamins 1-based.
23:17 jcamins First indicator.
23:17 jcamins I had never considered before just how dumb that is.
23:18 eythian well
23:18 eythian now I have: "In: Strategic communication management Volume 14, Issue 1 Dec/Jan 2010, p. 8"
23:19 eythian right at the bottom of the main info block
23:19 eythian that looks perfect.
23:19 jcamins But no link?
23:20 eythian there is a link now
23:20 jcamins Oh. Yay!
23:20 eythian it links to http://koha:8080/cgi-bin/koha/[…]r:505373.20130415
23:20 eythian which looks correct
23:20 jcamins It does.
23:20 jcamins Well- it looks like what you were trying for.
23:20 eythian thank you very much
23:20 eythian now I'll put that in the wiki somewhere.
23:21 jcamins Unfortunately, I suspect they're going to run into problems.
23:21 eythian howso?
23:21 jcamins That looks like a control number with the accession date of the particular issue appended.
23:21 eythian no, I'm generating that control number as part of migration
23:21 jcamins Oh.
23:21 jcamins In that case, looks perfect.
23:34 drnoe joined #koha
23:35 dcook Good ol' control numbers...
23:43 eythian <-- jcamins, can you please double-check that for me
23:46 jcamins Looks right to me.
23:47 eythian cool. That way I won't have to ask you again when this next comes up in a year or so :)
23:53 tcohen joined #koha
23:54 eythian tcohen: new master package, you didn't even have to ask this time :)
23:55 tcohen heh
23:55 tcohen eythian++
23:56 gmcharlt_ joined #koha
23:59 dcook eythian++
23:59 dcook Haven't used analytics much yet, but I like the idea

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