IRC log for #koha, 2013-04-04

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:00 jcamins Someone said that on a comment to Galen's blog post.
00:00 jcamins Right now I'm trying to confirm.
00:01 jcamins Wow, yeah.
00:01 jcamins Wait.
00:01 jcamins Maybe.
00:02 jcamins They don't really make it clear.
00:02 * jcamins will try.
00:02 rangi heh
00:03 jcamins Yes.
00:03 jcamins It does work.
00:03 jcamins And it even appears to return valid UTF-8!!!
00:03 rangi nice!
00:08 dcook :D
00:20 jcamins mtj: around?
00:22 Guest1079 there is an unlogged channel?!
00:22 jcamins Not for Koha.
00:23 aquaman joined #koha
00:59 trea joined #koha
01:03 aquaman joined #koha
01:30 aquaman joined #koha
01:43 mtj jcamins, about now
01:45 eythian wahanui: about now is <reply>the funk soul brother
01:45 wahanui OK, eythian.
01:45 wizzyrea the funk soul brother is <reply> check it out now
01:48 jcamins mtj: on bug 9172, it'd be better if you could sign off on a branch and make that available for merging.
01:48 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9172 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Passed QA , Move TinyMCE library outside of language-specific directory
01:49 mtj jcamins, hmm - how do i sign off on a branch?
01:50 jcamins mtj: interactive rebase or filter-branch.
01:50 jcamins I generally use interactive rebase.
01:51 mtj oooh ->[…]n_a_pushed_branch
01:52 mtj 1st result from google on 'git sign off on a branch' :)
01:52 eythian or just git commit --amend -s if there's only one patch
01:52 jcamins Cool.
01:53 mtj hmm, ok - ill give it a go...
02:01 aquaman joined #koha
02:32 mtj jcamins, how bout that? ->[…]Dev/tree/bug_9172
02:33 jcamins Looks good, thanks.
02:34 jcamins Stick a link on the bug so I can find it next time I'm pushing?
02:35 mtj done
02:41 jcamins Thanks.
02:41 aquaman joined #koha
02:43 mib_198sil joined #koha
02:43 alohabot Hi mib_198sil, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
02:45 quocuy Hello #koha
02:46 bag evening
02:55 jcamins You know what is idiotic?
02:55 jcamins I will show you.
02:56 jcamins 10/11/2010 0:00:00
02:56 jcamins ^^ that is idiotic
02:57 eythian I had a date: 19881603 ... that's possibly worse
02:57 eythian In related news, Time::Piece->strptime(%Y%m%d) will turn 20073101 into 2007-03-10 rather than fail. I'm not sure I agree with its position there.
02:58 * wizzyrea blinks
03:00 jcamins o.O
03:00 jcamins Oh, nice. There are literal newlines in this data.
03:00 jcamins ms_access--
03:00 eythian jcamins: are you using csvtomarc?
03:01 eythian cos I have a trick for that
03:01 jcamins eythian: you do?
03:01 jcamins Did I miss it in the man page?
03:01 jcamins Or perldoc, rather?
03:01 eythian it's undocumented because lazy
03:01 eythian a \a will get converted to \n
03:01 eythian and \f to ,
03:02 eythian so you can craft a search-replace over your data to convert troublesome characters into that, then they'll pass the CSV parsing and later get converted back
03:02 jcamins Ooh, nice!
03:02 eythian it's in the clean_string function
03:03 eythian I need to make it command-line configurable at some stage
03:03 jcamins Well look at that.
03:03 eythian I also find specifying -l often helps.
03:03 eythian it makes it a lot more relaxed about its CSV parsing
03:04 jcamins One thing... how do I replace the newslines if all I have is a CSV?
03:05 eythian I actually usually replace the ',', it's that that tends to mess things up.
03:05 eythian csvtomarc can handle newlines in fields just fine
03:05 jcamins It can?
03:05 eythian yeah
03:05 * jcamins did not know that.
03:06 eythian it's only when a line ends with something like blahblah"\n"next quote...
03:06 eythian that it gets really upset
03:06 pastebot "eythian" at pasted "example of CSV file pre-cleaning" (7 lines) at
03:06 eythian ^-- I often do that sort of thing, just to make it parse properly
03:07 eythian so fix a lot of commas and a handful of special cases.
03:09 jcamins Oh, wait, every line ends with 0 or 1.
03:09 eythian then adapt this:
03:09 eythian perl -p -i -e 's/(?<!"")\r\n/\a/g' library_conv.csv
03:09 eythian (which is when I had something where every line ended in ""
03:09 eythian )
03:12 quocuy hi all
03:12 quocuy nice day!
03:12 wahanui you betcha quocuy
03:13 eythian wahanui: literal nice day
03:13 wahanui eythian: nice day =is= <reply> you betcha $who
03:13 quocuy betcha?
03:13 quocuy what does it mean?
03:13 eythian wahanui: nice day is also <reply>I'm going to go play outside
03:13 wahanui okay, eythian.
03:14 eythian quocuy: it's a slangish contraction of "bet you"
03:14 quocuy no, i mean have a nice day everyone :)
03:14 eythian used in an odd way there, basically the same as saying "sure is"
03:15 quocuy :),
03:16 quocuy hey all, i've changed Koha-Opac, should i put it in to Live DVD
03:16 quocuy check in and give me  you comments :)
03:16 jcamins Why would you put a customized OPAC on the live DVD?
03:17 quocuy i'll make 2 website, 1 default, 1 custom, 1 guide to help them to do that, if they want
03:17 jcamins I don't think that's such a good idea.
03:18 quocuy just create 2 website with 1 installation
03:18 jcamins Yes, I don't think that's a good idea.
03:18 wizzyrea yea, I don't think that should go in the "canonical" live DVD
03:18 rangi yeah
03:18 quocuy ok :), i'm asking
03:18 wizzyrea i like it, it is neat, you are welcome to submit patches to have that included
03:18 jcamins Okay, fixed it in vim.
03:18 rangi it should be stock koha, so that people can upgrade safely, probably based on the packages
03:18 quocuy yes, live DVD in ubuntu 12.04
03:19 wizzyrea ^ what he said
03:19 wizzyrea it should be in stock
03:20 quocuy what do u mean "stock"? :)
03:20 quocuy ah, yes, understand
03:20 jcamins Any customizations on the live dvd are bad.
03:20 jcamins So any cool things that should go on should go into Koha proper.
03:21 wizzyrea right, I would probably be opposed to distributing as canonical a dvd with anything that isn't in the code base
03:21 quocuy make a dvd to update,
03:21 wizzyrea that the RM looks after.
03:21 quocuy Ok, i won't bring it to Koha DVD
03:22 wizzyrea and not canonical as in ubuntu... I mean it as authorized; recognized; accepted
03:22 wizzyrea thank you :)
03:23 quocuy and more, it's only some html and css code, which i added into system pref>Opac>
03:23 quocuy so better i'll make a guide
03:23 quocuy i love to play around with color, css, html :)
03:23 jcamins Yes. Much better. :)
03:24 quocuy ok, got it!
03:42 jcamins Well...
03:42 jcamins that was unexpected.
03:42 jcamins My database is full of HASH(0x...)
03:42 rangi stop smoking it then!!
03:43 wizzyrea *giggle*
03:43 jcamins lol
03:43 rangi and with that useful contribution, im going home
03:43 wizzyrea farewell :)
03:43 quocuy :)
03:43 dcook hehe
03:43 dcook later rangi
03:44 quocuy time for me to go, too.
03:44 quocuy today, maybe we'll see facebook phone :), i love this
03:44 quocuy bb all
03:57 bag hey dcook - how goes it
03:58 dcook hey bag. It goes. How're you?
03:58 bag same here
03:58 bag just feeling a little chatty for a moment before I dig into transfer issues
03:58 bag they usually always end in staff error :(
03:59 dcook I can relate to the feeling chatty :p
03:59 dcook Transfer issues?
03:59 dcook Staff error?
04:00 dcook What am I working on...serials and WCAG compliance for DSpace...
04:00 * dcook twitches at the mention of the latter
04:00 bag ahhh..  let's trade :P
04:00 bag heh
04:01 dcook I'm tempted but I'm not, lol
04:01 bag deal
04:05 dcook I guess we're pretty chatty :p
04:08 eythian <-- that's a moa
04:09 bag HA
04:09 mib_oabxzt joined #koha
04:09 alohabot Hi mib_oabxzt, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
04:10 bag eythian: I'd like to see a kea (those big parrots that eat rubber and destroy cars)  (do I have the right name?)
04:10 eythian yeah
04:10 qu-bit_ joined #koha
04:10 eythian they're easy enough to find in alpine areas
04:10 bag yeah that's what I hear
04:10 bag are there any kiwis in the wild anymore ?
04:13 eythian bag: yeah, they're rare but are around in the wild
04:13 eythian some islands have had predators removed and kiwi are there too
04:19 mib_iehlz1 joined #koha
04:19 alohabot Hi mib_iehlz1, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
04:21 mib_pdizlw joined #koha
04:21 alohabot Hi mib_pdizlw, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
04:27 jcamins Uh-oh.
04:28 eythian what'd you do?
04:28 jcamins One of my titles starts with a quotation mark.
04:29 eythian that might work. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.
04:29 jcamins This time it does not.
04:29 eythian It also makes it more likely to get confused by a badly placed comma further down the row.
04:30 eythian so it's often not the quote, but that plus something else causes the heuristic to fall over.
04:31 jcamins Actually, it turns out I had ~150 records that were broken by that.
04:32 cait joined #koha
04:32 jcamins Oh, look.
04:32 jcamins Access mangled my UTF-8.
04:32 jcamins Thanks, Access!
04:32 eythian imagine that!
04:36 jcamins So, other than the mangled UTF-8, I think the data is actually mostly in there where it belongs.
04:38 jcamins Actually, maybe Access didn't mangle the UTF-8 as bad as one might expect.
04:39 jcamins If I set the encoding to UTF-8 in vim, it automagically starts working.
04:39 bamalik joined #koha
04:40 bamalik hi
04:40 wahanui bidet, bamalik
04:41 bamalik have you any idea of virtual union catalogue?
04:42 bamalik thanks wahanui
04:42 jcamins bamalik: what do you mean?
04:43 bamalik a union catalogue using koha and z39.50 protocol, ok
04:44 jcamins You could do that.
04:46 bamalik jcamins: no, i want some help and info
04:47 jcamins Do you have a specific question?
04:49 bamalik jcamins: my question is simple: i want to create a union catalogue of two libraries (each lib have opac in koha) in two different cities, ok
04:49 jcamins I don't understand what the question is.
04:49 jcamins You can just add two branches.
04:50 jcamins (look in Administration under "Libraries")
04:54 bamalik jcamins: ok, i am an intensive user of koha and understand the administration well, do you have idea of virtual union catalogue please.
04:55 jcamins I just told you how to do what you asked about.
04:57 bamalik thanks, it is an advance topic and perhaps u have no idea of VUC, ok
04:57 jcamins Okay, I got my data loaded for tomorrow, so I'm going to bed.
04:58 jcamins Good night, #koha.
05:02 jcamins @later tell rangi Oh, I forgot to ask you, but could you please give cait/kf ops so she can kick people who come on #koha and insist on being vulgar?
05:02 huginn jcamins: The operation succeeded.
05:50 dcook jcamins++
05:50 * dcook waves to cait
05:50 * magnuse waves
05:50 * cait waves back
05:50 magnuse ooh, it's a wave party!
05:51 cait lol
05:52 * dcook waves to magnuse
05:52 dcook ^_^
05:53 * bag waves
05:57 * magnuse waves to dcook and bag
05:58 * magnuse looks out the window and sees an eagle being chased by two seagulls
06:01 * dcook waves again to bag
06:01 dcook Party time!
06:02 bag what kind of eagle?
06:02 bag and that's really cool magnuse
06:05 laurence joined #koha
06:07 magnuse bag: probably White-tailed Eagle, Haliaeetus albicilla
06:07 bag :)
06:07 magnuse it's the most common one, and the one most likely to be chased by gulls
06:07 * magnuse needs breakfast
06:11 * cait waves to bag
06:11 bag hey cait
06:23 sophie_m joined #koha
06:26 dcook Time to call it quits for today
06:26 dcook Au revoir, everyone
06:29 WaqarAzeem joined #koha
06:31 marcelr joined #koha
06:31 marcelr hi #koha
06:39 magnuse hiya marcelr
06:40 alex_a_ hello #koha
06:41 reiveune joined #koha
06:41 reiveune hello
06:49 cait left #koha
06:51 marcelr hi magnuse alex_a reiveune
06:52 magnuse bonjour alex_a_ and reiveune
06:53 reiveune bonjour magnuse marcelr and everybody :)
07:00 christophe_c joined #koha
07:00 christophe_c hello
07:06 asaurat joined #koha
07:06 magnuse bonjour christophe_c and asaurat
07:06 asaurat hi!
07:09 lds joined #koha
07:12 christophe_c bonjour magnuse ;-)
07:12 rangi hehe
07:12 rangi[…]d7537630d14373d2b
07:13 bag looking at Kumara
07:16 rangi used to only work with postgres :)
07:16 rangi hm who was being rude i wonder?
07:17 bag :)
07:17 bag hey matts
07:23 matts hello !
07:23 gaetan_B joined #koha
07:23 wizzyrea1 joined #koha
07:24 gaetan_B hello
07:26 magnuse rangi: rudeness personified[…]3-04-03#i_1220872
07:27 rangi all ill delete that from the log
07:27 magnuse yay
07:27 rangi ah you registered with chanserv magnuse?
07:28 magnuse yeah, i think i was at one point, but then forgot how to "log in" again or something
07:28 rangi ahh right
07:28 rangi we need to get a few more who can do that
07:28 magnuse that?
07:28 wahanui it has been said that that is a good idea.
07:30 rangi you are added now
07:30 rangi (kick ban etc)
07:31 magnuse woot!
07:31 magnuse or rather: moahahaha
07:31 magnuse !
07:32 bag yeah clean those logs
07:32 rangi cait/kf needs to register with nickserv and I can add her too
07:32 magnuse both of her? :-)
07:33 rangi yep
07:33 magnuse yay :-)
07:33 rangi anyone else want to be added to the chanserv while im at it?
07:34 wizzyrea joined #koha
07:38 rangi guess not
07:40 magnuse deafening silence...
07:43 kf joined #koha
07:43 magnuse kia ora kf
07:44 kf hello :)
07:44 magnuse kf: better hide, rangi is looking for you!
07:44 marcelr hi kf
07:44 wizzyrea joined #koha
07:45 * kf is not scared of rangi
07:45 * magnuse admires the bravery of kf
07:47 magnuse hm, is there a way to renew *all* overdue loans? not just for one patron, but for all of them, in one fell swoop?
07:48 * kf nick cait
07:49 magnuse ooh, worlds collide...
07:50 cait magnuse: hmpf
07:50 kf my nick is invalid
07:50 kf says the nickserv thing
07:51 magnuse too short?
07:51 kf yes
07:51 kf and cait seems taken
07:52 kf @later tell jcamins ops are not working because my nick is too short.
07:52 huginn kf: The operation succeeded.
07:54 rangi i can stll do it
07:54 rangi you just wont get it automagically
07:55 kf hm?
07:55 wizzyrea joined #koha
07:55 kf so what would I need to do to kick someone?
07:56 rangi type /kick nickname
07:56 kf but there are no bad persons around
07:56 rangi but first you want to do /ban
07:56 rangi cos else they will just come back
07:57 mib_z7pozk joined #koha
07:57 alohabot Hi mib_z7pozk, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
07:57 mib_z7pozk was kicked by rangi: mib_z7pozk
07:57 rangi like that
07:57 rangi to kick
07:57 mib_z7pozk joined #koha
07:57 alohabot Hi mib_z7pozk, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
07:58 rangi but then they just come back
07:58 kf h
07:58 mib_z7pozk was kicked by rangi: mib_z7pozk
07:58 kf hm I tried to ban
07:58 kf it says me this does not work with this protocol
07:59 rangi /ban nickname
07:59 kf maybe we shoudl better volunteer magnuse :P
07:59 kf I did that
07:59 kf got an error message
07:59 rangi you saw it work for me eh?
07:59 kf yep
08:00 kf give me another mibbit user? :)
08:00 kf so when the ops don't come automatically, you woudl have to do it manually all the time or can I do something to activate?
08:01 rangi no
08:01 rangi you cant without a registered nick
08:01 kf ok
08:01 rangi or someone will pretend to be you
08:01 rangi and get ops
08:01 kf so guess I am out
08:01 * kf volunteers magnuse for europe ops
08:01 kf but he already has them
08:01 kf so...
08:02 kf we just leave it as is I guess :)
08:02 mib_z7pozk joined #koha
08:02 alohabot Hi mib_z7pozk, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
08:03 mib_z7pozk hmmm
08:03 kf Dieses Kommando funktioniert nicht in diesem Protokoll.
08:03 kf maybe it's my irc client not supporting it?
08:03 rangi that sounds like your client
08:03 rangi do this
08:04 kf sorry, have to run!
08:04 rangi /mode #koha +b *!*
08:04 kf_mtg nope
08:04 kf_mtg still the error
08:04 kf_mtg sorry, have to go! bbl
08:05 rangi mode/#koha [+b *!*] by kf_mtg
08:05 rangi it worked
08:06 wizzyrea joined #koha
08:06 rangi i better unban mibbit before i get tempted to forget to unban it
08:13 mib_moabs6 joined #koha
08:13 alohabot Hi mib_moabs6, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
08:15 mib_moabs6 I'm trying to add items to the catalog, but on the last step, when I click "add item", I get the following message: Can't call method "textContent" on an undefined value at /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1/MARC/File/ line 456. Can anyone help?
08:16 wizzyrea joined #koha
08:17 rangi mib_moabs6: what version of koha?
08:18 mib_moabs6
08:18 rangi hmm thats a pretty old version, has it just started not working? or did you just install it?
08:19 mib_moabs6 just installed it
08:19 rangi hmmm
08:19 rangi why did you choose 3.6.1 ?
08:20 mib_moabs6 it dept did it, not me
08:20 rangi it was released november 29 2011
08:20 rangi well thats bizarre
08:20 rangi its a really old version
08:20 rangi the latest stable release is 3.10.4
08:20 rangi or in the oldstable branch 3.8.11
08:21 rangi but there are unlikely to ever be anymore 3.6.x releases
08:21 rangi id suggest installing a recent version
08:22 rangi and also, find out why they picked that .. maybe its linked somewhere and if so we should remove that link :)
08:22 rangi whatever bug thats causing your issue will have been fixed sometime in the 19 months since 3.6.1 was released :)
08:23 magnuse or if the it dept insists on 3.6.x, make them install the latest version of it, which is 3.6.11, i think :-)
08:24 rangi yep there were security fixes around 3.6.7
08:24 mib_moabs6 it's going to be difficult to get a newer version installed, but i'll give it a try. if we're stuck with this version, is there any place else where i can look for an answer to this?
08:24 rangi you definitely want later than that
08:24 rangi no
08:24 mib_moabs6 thanks for your help
08:25 rangi seriously, why on earth an IT dept would install an obsolete version is beyond me
08:25 rangi so they should have no issues fixing it i would have though
08:25 rangi t
08:25 * rangi goes to install windows 3.1
08:25 rangi :-)
08:26 rangi if you need ammo to get them to upgrade
08:27 magnuse lol
08:27 wizzyrea joined #koha
08:27 rangi
08:28 rangi The Koha release team are proud to announce the release of 3.6.10. This is a maintenance and security release, and contains a lot of useful bug fixes, as well as fixing several serious security vulnerabilities. Everyone running an earlier version of Koha 3.6 is strongly encouraged to update to 3.6.10.
08:28 rangi IT depts
08:28 rangi you are doing it wrong
08:29 rangi i might get that on a tshirt
08:29 paul_p joined #koha
08:32 magnuse kia ora paul_p
08:33 rangi hi paul_p
08:33 paul_p hi rangi & magnuse & others
08:36 cjh wow, fresh 3.6 install
08:38 wizzyrea joined #koha
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09:05 viktorsarge_ irc-question: I can't get my regular nick (Viktor) to work. It's registered and usually my client (XChat Azure on OS X) handles it just fine. Using the /NICK command does nothing. Any ideas what's gone wrong?
09:05 wizzyrea try /msg nickserv identify yourpassword viktor
09:06 wizzyrea :)
09:06 Viktor Yay!
09:06 wizzyrea highfive!
09:06 wahanui gimmie six!
09:06 Viktor Thanks wizzyrea!
09:06 wizzyrea yw, i had that exact problem earlier today :)
09:06 Viktor Usually I get logged in as Viktor but have to give the password
09:07 Viktor Always nice to get help from someone who knows.
09:08 wizzyrea it's like teaching nurses - see one, do one, teach one.
09:09 Viktor Yep :) It's much easier than patching together bits of information from forums all over the web (I'm looking at you weird Linux distros with driver issues ;)
09:10 wizzyrea my laptop webcam is *still* upside down, a year later.
09:10 wizzyrea (in ubuntu)
09:10 Viktor LOL - yep. Had those types of problems when I built a machine running Ubuntu from parts (without checking available drivers first)
09:11 wizzyrea everything else works a treat, so I don't much worry about it :P
09:11 Viktor Koha question: would using Ajax in circulation interfere with Plack?
09:12 rangi no
09:12 Viktor rangr thanks
09:12 Viktor rangi
09:13 Viktor Still thinking about ensuring that no scanned barcodes are lost and adding a que function. Using Ajax to pick up the barcodes and handle them without reloading the page seems like a good idea.
09:14 wizzyrea check out that would probably be ok, as long as all in process overrides are honored.
09:15 wizzyrea such as "this item is on reserve for someone else... override?"
09:15 wizzyrea or "this person would go over the fine limit... override?"
09:15 magnuse yeah, that would have to be taken care of
09:15 magnuse and hi Viktor
09:15 Viktor hi magnuse :)
09:16 Viktor Yes we would have to light up multiple boxes of "stuff to handle" - would it be possible to do that without rewriting the code behind the scenes?
09:17 Viktor I guess it's mostly and that would have to be modded.
09:17 wizzyrea returns has to deal with things like reserves too
09:18 rangi modding them would be a bad idea
09:18 rangi they are designed to work with templats
09:18 rangi you are better off adding a new svc in /svc/
09:18 wahanui Hmm.  No matches for that, rangi.
09:19 rangi to go along with authentication, bib, new_bib, report, etc
09:19 rangi one that is designed to be light, and pass json
09:19 Viktor Not familiar with svc :( But I think magnuse is which is what matters :)
09:20 wizzyrea I guess the plugins system can't yet accept a new circ module type plugin... or can it?
09:20 rangi dear god i hope not
09:20 rangi that sounds like a hideous security nightmare if it could
09:21 magnuse i think plugins are restricted to reports and tools
09:21 magnuse (not sure what "restricted to tools" means, though...)
09:21 wizzyrea i haven't piddled about with it yet.
09:21 rangi best to do it properly and build a restful circ interface, we have one for cataloguing, and reports already
09:22 rangi thats what the svc dir is for
09:22 rangi once you have that
09:22 * magnuse is not overly familiar with the svc dir, but would love to dig around in it :-)
09:22 rangi you could have all manner of UI on top of it
09:23 Viktor I'm listening but not familiar enough with the internal plumbing :)
09:23 rangi basically i dont want people touching the internals, ie modifying
09:23 rangi thats just too risky
09:23 Viktor Basically I'm trying to get find out how bug9844 might be done :)
09:24 magnuse bug 9844
09:24 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9844 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Add a barcode queue to checkout / return
09:24 Viktor To get rid of the bottleneck of waiting for the system to answer before being able to scan more barcodes.
09:25 * wizzyrea read barbecue instead of barcode
09:25 rangi yep
09:25 Viktor :)
09:25 rangi i think thats the wrong solution tho :)
09:25 rangi best to make a light/fast interface so taht the js can do ajax calls
09:25 Viktor Well it's spring. A BBQ would improve everyones mood :)
09:26 rangi you still cant finish the borrower until all the transactions are processed
09:27 rangi and if you are queueing client side
09:27 rangi you may issue stuff you are not allowed to
09:27 Viktor So we could call the relevant module multiple times behind the scenes without having to mod the .pl themselves? Sound great.
09:28 rangi basically if you build a restful circ client you can queue server side
09:28 Viktor Sounds like a plan!
09:29 rangi when all you are transmitting is a small piece of json to and from the server, and the page isnt being reloaded, it will be a zillion times faster anyway
09:29 Viktor This has floated quite high up on my list of stuff to pay to get done so I'm very thankful for you guys giving a hint on how to solve it in a community approved way :)
09:30 Viktor (back in a sec)
09:31 Viktor (back)
09:32 aquaman joined #koha
09:32 Viktor Oh and another thing - does anyone use online payment services in Koha?
09:33 Viktor Hi aquaman
09:33 rangi not in koha but with koha yep, hlt do, via sip2
09:33 Viktor Interesting!
09:33 wahanui i guess interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
09:34 rangi they also do payment at the selfcheck machines the same way
09:34 Viktor Didn't even know you could do that :)
09:35 Viktor I'm thinking about adding it to the Opac in the long run.
09:35 wizzyrea yea i'm not for that really.
09:35 wizzyrea i personally don't want koha handling money
09:35 rangi yeah what she said
09:35 Viktor I'm with you on that.
09:36 rangi id hate to see any kind of credit card processing stuff built into koha
09:36 rangi use some other service for that, they can get hacked by russian mafia
09:37 wizzyrea it's bad enough that we have to deal with fines and accounting. And that people feel inclined to put personal, really sensitive info in koha
09:37 Viktor What I'm thinking of is adding the ability to move to a third party that handles the payment and then returns (approved payment / not approved)
09:37 wizzyrea that would be ok
09:37 Viktor Good :)
09:37 rangi yep, you can do that now via SIP2
09:37 wizzyrea i mean, ok by me anyway. others may have differing opinions
09:38 Viktor Yep :)
09:38 rangi but if the service cant handle talking sip, punching off to dps or any of the other processing places would be easy to do
09:39 Viktor I'll have to look into that. It's not on the fast track list - but it would be great for people to be able to pay fines from home in a _secure_ way
09:39 rangi yep, they do at hlt already
09:39 wizzyrea rangi - you tunnel those SIP connections I presume
09:40 rangi they dont travel the net
09:40 rangi but yes
09:40 magnuse it's all done with pigeons
09:40 wizzyrea in tunnels :)
09:40 rangi (they are on their own LAN)
09:41 rangi you'd be mental to do SIP over the internet
09:41 Viktor :) :)
09:41 wizzyrea ohhh didn't realise that bit
09:41 Viktor Something like[…]dow_introduction/ might be better.
09:41 wizzyrea that the payment thinger was internal
09:42 rangi yeah the server that talks to koha via sip2 is on the same lan segment
09:42 wizzyrea wicked
09:42 Viktor Would it require any (extensive) Koha-plumbing to receive "payment done" and set a note in the database "payed online by"
09:42 rangi looks after the printers, and scanners and photocopiers too
09:43 rangi Viktor: not if it used an existing method
09:43 Viktor Great!
09:43 rangi but yes it would if you wanted to build some new thing
09:43 Viktor *me hoping no new things are required :)
09:44 gaetan_B joined #koha
09:44 rangi receiving payment done would never be enough of course
09:44 rangi thats just asking to be pwned
09:45 Viktor :)
09:45 rangi you'd ahve to generate a md5 hash or something that the service hands back
09:45 rangi or everyone will just send their own payment done messages
09:46 Viktor I shure hope they have thought about that - I use those kinds of services quite a bit :)
09:46 rangi they have
09:46 Viktor I sort of assumed there would be a bit of security hassle to get my head around when digging deeper.
09:47 rangi but koha will need to have changes made to do that, thats what i meant
09:47 rangi because that is not an existing method
09:47 Viktor I see.
09:48 aquaman joined #koha
09:48 Viktor well it seems doable with the technical stuff so next step will be sorting out the legal hassle of accepting payments.
09:48 Viktor Guess I'll come back to this question if I manage to talk nicely enough to our legal people.
09:49 Viktor Getting it done is sort of a 2014 thing if the most vital stuff don't eat all the money. But I'm collecting all info I can meanwhile.
09:49 Viktor Thanks for all the help!"
09:51 Viktor People just went for lunch here so I'll go AFK for a while.
09:53 samuel joined #koha
09:53 samuel hi everybody
09:54 Viktor_away hi samuel
09:54 * rangi goes to sleep
09:54 samuel zebra give me headache. It doesn't work and i've seen this error "11:32:19-04/04 [fatal] lock file /var/lock/koha/zebradb/biblios/ [No such file or directory] ".
09:56 Viktor_away sorry samuel - far above my ability and lunch is calling.
09:56 magnuse samuel: package install?
09:56 samuel viktor: don't worry and lunch is soon for me
09:56 samuel magnuse: no, it's agit install
09:56 samuel a git
09:56 magnuse ah
09:58 magnuse is zebra running?
09:58 samuel yes, it seems, wait
09:58 samuel root@bibkoha:/var/lock# ps -aux | grep zebra Warning: bad ps syntax, perhaps a bogus '-'? See koha      1595  0.0  0.0  18192   488 ?        S    Mar28   0:00 daemon --name=koha-zebra-ctl.bibecp --errlog=/var/log/koha/koha-zebradaemon.err --stdout=/var/log/koha/koha-zebradaemon.log --output=/var/log/koha/koha-zebradaemon-output.l
10:00 magnuse and are you running the command as the right user when you try to run whatever gives you the "[fatal] lock file" error?
10:00 wizzyrea running as the wrong user?
10:00 wizzyrea hehe
10:01 samuel yes
10:02 samuel koha@bibkoha:/var/lock$ zebrasrv -f /etc/koha/koha-conf.xml 11:58:38-04/04 [warn] chdir /var/lib/koha/zebradb/biblios [No such file or directory] 11:58:38-04/04 [log] zebra_start 2.0.44 419ad759807269fdfa379799a051ed3a551c6541 11:58:38-04/04 [log] config /etc/koha/zebradb/zebra-biblios-dom.cfg 11:58:38-04/04 [log] Loaded filter module /usr/lib/idzebra-2.0/mod
10:03 magnuse maybe some dirs that have not been created or have the wrong permissions? "chdir /var/lib/koha/zebradb/biblios [No such file or directory]"
10:03 samuel yes, i think so, i'll test after lunch
10:03 * wizzyrea guesses permissions
10:03 wizzyrea make sure they are owned by the koha user
10:04 wizzyrea or whoever you are running zebra as.
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10:52 drojf joined #koha
10:52 drojf good day #koha
10:53 marcelr hi drojf
10:53 drojf oh my, a lot of people i have to be nice to from now on
10:53 drojf hi marcelr :)
10:53 marcelr yes before kicked out
11:01 Viktor_away joined #koha
11:13 jcamins Bwahahaha! Power!
11:18 magnuse my thought exactly :-)
11:19 drojf with great power comes great responsibility blah blah :P
11:19 magnuse yeah, right
11:19 magnuse :-)
11:19 drojf i for one welcome our new ops overlords ;)
11:20 magnuse wise ;-)
11:21 Viktor_away joined #koha
11:22 jwagner joined #koha
11:29 aquaman joined #koha
11:30 samuel magnuse: i've resolved my problem, zebra seems to run correctly
11:34 mib_caczoy joined #koha
11:34 alohabot Hi mib_caczoy, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
11:35 mib_gg0tzu joined #koha
11:35 alohabot Hi mib_gg0tzu, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
11:40 jcamins Wow... the guy on the mailing list who keeps on sending inappropriate messages just doesn't learn.
11:40 jcamins (not a Koha mailing list)
11:42 kf hey jcamins and drojf
11:42 drojf hi mighty kf ;)
11:43 kf only temporarily
11:43 drojf ?
11:43 kf you can't register 2 letter nicks with nickserv...
11:43 drojf ah
11:43 drojf that's a stupid rule
11:43 nengard joined #koha
11:44 drojf what happened to our mailing lists? i think i did not get any mails the last days, only from bugzilla?!
11:44 drojf last emails on main list came on 30.3.
11:46 drojf two days ago from the dev list seems ok
11:46 jcamins There were a few messages from the dev list.
11:46 jcamins Three.
11:46 jcamins http://lists.koha-community.or[…]3-April/date.html
11:46 drojf yeah i go those, that looks alright. but 4 days no mails on main seems strange
11:47 jcamins It does, doesn't it?
11:47 drojf let's face it, we answered all the questions
11:47 drojf game over
11:47 drojf :D
11:48 magnuse yay!
11:48 drojf i would have expected a fancier ending
11:48 magnuse hm, no april here:
11:48 jcamins Someone should send an e-mail to the main list.
11:49 magnuse yup
11:49 * jcamins nominates drojf.
11:49 magnuse in possibly related new: where did go?
11:49 magnuse s/new/news/
11:50 jcamins magnuse: no idea.
11:52 drojf ok i'll testmail the list
11:55 drojf done
11:56 kf and?
11:56 wahanui and is that patch only for "$" or for "$ CAD" ?
11:56 kf wahanui: forget and
11:56 wahanui kf: I forgot and
11:56 drojf nothing so far but it takes a few minutes sometimes
11:56 jcamins Not looking good.
11:57 kf wahanui: and is a boolean operator like or, and not.
11:57 wahanui OK, kf.
12:01 drojf hrm no, that is not looking good
12:11 magnuse i'd say 4 days without any messages is not looking good anyway...
12:12 jcamins Well, yes, that is true.
12:14 Dyrcona joined #koha
12:21 magnuse does anyone know who we can poke at katipo? is not listed on[…]te_Administration
12:22 jcamins rangi, I think.
12:35 druthb o/
12:37 jcamins o/
12:37 magnuse o/
12:38 druthb :D
12:38 magnuse trying this with a new audience: is there a way to renew *all* overdue loans? not just for one patron, but for all of them, in one fell swoop?
12:38 jcamins magnuse: not that I know of.
12:39 druthb it would be relatively easy to write a script to do that from the command line, but there's not a way to do that in the interface, surely.
12:39 magnuse thanks jcamins, that's what i thought
12:39 magnuse yeah, that is the conclusion i am about to draw, druthb
12:40 magnuse i just looked at some of the sql i circ/ and am now almost blind...
12:40 druthb hehehe.
12:40 jcamins lol
12:41 magnuse but yeah, it should not be too hard, if the objective really is to renew *everything*, without exceptions
12:41 druthb What you'll wanna do is select itemnumber,borrowernumber from issues, then for each, check to see if it *can* be renewed (there's a C4::Circulation func for that, I think), then AddRenewal, IIRC
12:41 jcamins Why would you want to, though?
12:42 magnuse druthb: yup
12:42 magnuse jcamins: cause a customer is asking for it? :-)
12:42 jcamins magnuse: I can't help but feel that they want to do something elese.
12:42 magnuse there are libraries that want to send out reminders, but they don't want to lean heavily on patrons unless there are actually people waiting for a book
12:43 jcamins Oh, they want more notices.
12:44 magnuse hm, maybe
12:45 jcamins That makes more sense than simply wanting to renew everything.
12:46 magnuse hm, i'll have to think about that while i walk the dogs, i think...
12:47 edveal joined #koha
12:47 edveal Good morning
12:47 tcohen joined #koha
12:47 tcohen morning #koha
13:02 tcohen question: there was a proposal on koha-dev for being module maintainer
13:03 tcohen we didn't talk about it on the IRC meeting
13:03 tcohen will we?
13:04 drojf tcohen: you could put it on the agenda for next meeting[…]eting,_7_May_2013
13:08 jcamins tcohen: I think gmcharlt was waiting until he was elected to start changing procedures willy-nilly. :)
13:09 tcohen yes, thanks jcamins drojf
13:09 alphaman joined #koha
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13:55 Viktor Does anyone online at the moment have local laws requiring anonymization of circulation history?
13:56 Viktor We do and I wonder a bit how to handle the fact that we want a decent amount of database backups which makes it possible to backtrack who borrowed what.
13:56 drojf Viktor: we have to do that in germany AFAIK. kf might be an expert ;)
13:57 Viktor I'll ask when I get the chance.
13:57 alphaman left #koha
13:58 Viktor I guess it might be ok since it's not really a way to snoop around accessible to regular librarians. But input is appreciated :)
13:58 magnuse Viktor: we probably have very similar laws in norway. the question of backups is an interesting one, that i have never heard anyone mention
13:59 Viktor I think so too magnuse
13:59 drojf yeah it is an interesting question
13:59 magnuse my plan is to ask the norwegian "data directorat" ("Datatilsynet") what they think
13:59 Viktor I asked on Twitter to get local feedback but it's been quiet.
13:59 magnuse in norway, they are the ones who have the official opinion on stuff like that
14:00 kf Viktor: it depends on laws but not sure if there is explicit way to handle that
14:00 kf you need a concept
14:00 kf and you can't keep data you have no reason for to keep
14:00 kf so what would a library do with information about who borrowed what?
14:00 Viktor Interesting - we have Datainspektionen. They might know. They should :)
14:00 kf you can argue that you want to keep the last borrower (for some time) becuase the book might be damaged
14:00 magnuse kf: a concept?
14:00 kf but even that is a bit difficult
14:01 kf because when you don't notice on return at the circulation desk - how would you proof that this borrower was the one who damaged the book?
14:01 kf you have to describe what data you store
14:01 kf and when you delete it
14:01 kf what you do with the data
14:01 kf etc.
14:01 kf at least I have to :)
14:01 Viktor kf What we need isn't who borrowed what but being able to import older backups if more recent ones prove to be corrupt.
14:01 magnuse kf: yeah, the ideal is immediate anonymization. but what if you feel like you have to keep backups for a month?
14:01 magnuse or 2 or 3 months
14:02 kf magnuse: don't forget to update items and reindex
14:02 Viktor kf but I think we have quite similar laws. I recognize the way of thinking "explain why"
14:02 kf Viktor: backups are different I think
14:02 kf but you can't keep bakcups forever
14:02 kf and you need someone who checks that the backups really work
14:02 kf ...
14:02 kf we do a nightly full backup and hourly transaction logs
14:03 kf but not sure how many days they are kept
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14:03 magnuse ooh, you ought to know that kf ;-)
14:03 Viktor magnuse and I will have to sort out how often and what intervals. But I guess I'll check backups with Datainspektionen.
14:04 magnuse Viktor: sounds like a very good idea
14:04 Viktor kf magnuse :)
14:04 kf Viktor: I think a month old backup of circulation data won't help you
14:04 jcamins Here in the US, libraries are encouraged to keep their circulation history so that the government can subpoena them. Most libraries choose to shred the information as soon as they can to avoid the pain of FBI investigations.
14:04 magnuse it will if you have a total crash and corrupt backups and that is alll you are left with... ;-)
14:05 Viktor kf Too little or not acceptable to lose a whole month?
14:05 kf there happen too many things in just a few hours, you would never be sure who has a book
14:05 maximep left #koha
14:05 maximep joined #koha
14:05 kf Viktor: I mean your library will be a mess :)
14:05 kf what you need to keep because it's expensive to recreate is item and bibliographic information
14:05 Viktor kf agreed - It's only as a backup to the backup. Worst case scenario.
14:06 kf hm maybe
14:06 Viktor jcamins I love US librarians!
14:06 kf anonymize is key with Koha I think - because issues is used for stats and I think statistics for the counts of how many times items were checked out and the like
14:06 Viktor jcamins Any and all librarians of course :) But I love how they stood up to the madness.
14:07 * magnuse remembers the story of libraries putting up sign saying "the fbi has not been here today" and taking them down if they got a visit
14:07 vfernandes joined #koha
14:07 vfernandes hello :)
14:07 jcamins When I was a student employee at my university library, we actually had special training for dealing with the FBI.
14:08 magnuse ooh
14:08 Viktor kf I shure hope that I'll never have to lose a whole month. It would be a mess. But I can't have Magnus verifying backups are ok every 10 minutes either ;)
14:08 magnuse "special training for dealing with the FBI" sounds awesome!
14:08 vfernandes one little question: it's possible to list a adittional attribute in patron cards?
14:08 jcamins magnuse: it wasn't as exciting as it sounds.
14:08 magnuse Viktor: oh i'd be glad to do that. by hand. ;-)
14:08 magnuse jcamins: too bad ;-)
14:09 kf can someone take a look at 9740?
14:09 kf I am not sure I get that one
14:09 magnuse bug 9740
14:09 jcamins bug 9740
14:09 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9740 normal, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, Failed QA , using XSLT modifies record authorized values
14:09 Viktor magnuse :)
14:10 vfernandes one little question: it's possible to list a adittional attribute in patron cards?
14:10 kf Viktor: hmm, how are backups and circ history related? couldn't you keep the backups and still anonymize immediately?
14:11 kf vfernandes: I don't know - maybe it's in the manual or bugzilla
14:11 vfernandes i've an attribute to save patron job, and I need to present it besides patron name
14:11 Viktor kf Yes we do plan to anonymize immediately. But if I restore a backup from two weeks ago I can still see who had the book at the time?
14:12 magnuse kf: but your backup will contain every checkout/loan/issue that was active at the time yu made the backup
14:14 kf I guess I am confused now
14:14 kf :)
14:14 kf I think maybe different things
14:14 kf part of data privacy is making sure the data is safe
14:15 Viktor Yep. I like safe.
14:16 Viktor It just dawned on me that a good backup plan for the database is in conflict with anonymizing loans (at least in theory).
14:16 kf hm I amnot sure it is, but right now my brain is in knots :)
14:16 magnuse kf: here's one view of it. libraries anonymize circ history so the fbi (or whoever) can't see what patrons have borrwed earlier. but if you have backups that go a long way back, the fbi could ask to see the backups, and so get access to at least a slice of the circ history
14:17 drnoe joined #koha
14:25 kf magnuse: so the answer is not keep backups?
14:25 kf :)
14:25 kf or maybe just export some tables, but not all.
14:26 Viktor Living on the edge :)
14:26 talljoy joined #koha
14:26 kf we discussed it briefly here... but not sure really
14:27 Viktor I just asked our official government body. Guess it will take a day or two though to get the reply.
14:27 kf Viktor: would be interested in the outcome :)
14:27 jcamins Viktor: just a day or two?
14:27 jcamins If I were asking for an answer from the government, I would expect at least a six month delay. :P
14:27 Viktor I'll give you a shout when I get the reply kf :)
14:28 Viktor jcamins I'm an optimist :)
14:28 jcamins Apparently so!
14:29 Viktor (but we do actually have quite good authorities in general. They do their job without to many stunts)
14:30 magnuse Viktor: i asked Datatilsynet about something and i think it took 3-4 weeks to get the reply :-)
14:31 Viktor magnuse The race is on!
14:31 Viktor :)
14:31 magnuse hehe
14:38 chris_n khall: I sent along a copy of the usermap script we use for pykota
14:39 khall thanks chris_n!
14:39 chris_n I'm not familiar with libwiki or I might be able to help with the rest
14:40 chris_n libki rather
14:42 khall chris_n, I'm the author for libki, so I can modify the client if needed. What I'd really like to do is integrate pykota with libki and koha. I want to be able to print as the libki username. So even if I'm logged in as 'public1', I'm logging into libki as 'khall'. So I need a way to send 'khall' as the print user. On the Koha side, I'll add some integration so creating 'print management fees' in Koha will add credits to the pykota da
14:42 chris_n since the script can be written in any language, maybe you can munge up something in php and take advantage of libki's api
14:42 chris_n heh
14:43 chris_n there you go :-)
14:44 khall I was hoping there would be a way for me to send the libki username as the user who is printing, but I don't know if it's possible. I can look up the username in the libki database, but I was hoping to avoid having to make a call to another server on the network.
14:44 gmcharlt @quote random
14:44 huginn gmcharlt: Quote #159: "slef: WELCOME TO HOOGERLAND. POPULATION: HEROES" (added by wizzyrea at 05:00 PM, September 23, 2011)
14:44 chris_n heh
14:45 chris_n khall: feel free to hang around in #pykota on freenode; sometimes rambutan is there as well
14:45 chris_n I'll be glad to help all I can
14:45 khall I'll have to do that. Thanks!
14:47 chris_n gmcharlt: out looking for heroes today?
14:47 gmcharlt chris_n: I am now! :)
14:48 kf chris_n: what is pykota? :)
14:49 Viktor chris_n I'm curious too. Anything starting with "py" gets my attention.
14:49 khall it's a print management system, written in Python
14:49 * chris_n looks around carefully for the snake
14:50 kf heh
14:50 khall
14:50 khall MPL is losing over $1000 a year in people not paying for printed pages, so we are looking to implement pykota for the entire system
14:51 tcohen i have a db name, user, password, host, a SQL and want to use koha-create to generate an instance, any pointers?
14:51 tcohen (got to deploy 38 instances actually, want to script it)
14:52 magnuse tcohen: have a look at the --request-db and --populate-db options to koha-create
14:53 tcohen --request-db will ask me for input?
14:53 chris_n khall: ouch!
14:53 jcamins tcohen: I use /etc/koha/passwd
14:53 magnuse i have never used them, but they let you create an instance without creating a db on the localhost at the same time
14:53 Viktor Will PyKota talk to Koha and add the cost of printing something to a patrons account?
14:53 khall chris_n: yeah, in years past it wouldn't have been such a big deal, but budgets are getting tighter.
14:53 tcohen ssh koha-demo -lroot
14:54 tcohen oops
14:54 khall Viktor, I'm hoping to add that to Koha.
14:54 jcamins I'm pretty sure you have to go in and edit the configuration file if you're using --request-db.
14:54 Viktor knall That would be great!
14:54 magnuse tcohen: do "man koha-create" to get a description of the options
14:54 jcamins khall: why doesn't it just use SIP?
14:55 tcohen 'hmm, we are missing db host there
14:56 * jcamins glares at his web browser.
14:56 khall jcamins, why doesn't what use sip? The idea is, for the purposes of printing, to masquarade as the libki user, instead of the actual OS user.
14:57 kf khall: I think he meant for setting the fee :)
14:57 khall Libki does support SIP2, so it can act as a go-between of Koha and PyKota.
14:57 kf and authentication
14:57 jcamins khall: you can set fees using SIP2.
14:57 jcamins Nice and easy.
14:57 jcamins Not that I know how, but I know self-check machines do it.
14:57 khall jcamins, yes, that may be the way to do it. Or add a service API to Koha ( which may be more reliable ).
14:58 jcamins pykota doesn't already support SIP2?
14:58 khall General rant: why is there no SIP client library written in Perl? There's one for PHP!
14:58 jcamins That's a pity.
14:58 * magnuse thinks *everything* should support SIP2
14:58 magnuse khall: dpavlin has made one that might be used with a few fixes
14:58 khall That's correct, no SIP2 built into pykota
14:59 jcamins khall: because SIP is miserable to work with, and Perl programmers don't like being miserable? ;)
14:59 magnuse khall:
14:59 magnuse jcamins: lol
14:59 chris_n jcamins: lol
14:59 khall agreed, I never thought I'd understand SIP, but I learned it under fire ; )
15:00 magnuse khall: it's geared towards testing, so it's too verbose for actual use, but by just commenting some of the output i was able to use it in a project i work on
15:00 * magnuse wanders off to dinner
15:00 jcamins Zero-width selections are problematic in web browsers.
15:00 datadoctor joined #koha
15:01 khall magnuse, thanks! I had passed that over before. I'll have to take another look.
15:01 khall I ended up writing SIP2 code by hand for Libki. I figure it's probably faster that way anyway.
15:04 * Viktor Is packing up to go home while pondering how nice the community is
15:11 datadoctor Hasta mañana!
15:12 reiveune bye
15:12 reiveune left #koha
15:13 datadoctor When a borrower is created, would it be possible to assign patron-specific default messaging preferences?
15:14 jcamins You can set a default for the category.
15:14 jcamins Or set the actual messaging preferences for the patron.
15:14 jcamins You can't really have a default that only applies to one person, though.
15:14 datadoctor I understand. I'm experiencing a problem with legacy data.
15:15 datadoctor In the past, enhanced messaging was turned on, so I have some patrons with enhanced messaging preferences, and some depending upon category defaults.
15:16 jcamins There's a script for resetting messaging preferences to category defaults.
15:16 datadoctor Maybe I just need to delete the legacy messaging preferences, then the category defaults would take over.
15:16 datadoctor Wow! There is a script for that?
15:16 jcamins Yes.
15:16 datadoctor Very cool jcamins!
15:16 kf datadoctor: hm be careful
15:17 kf datadoctor: there is a script for that - but it doesn't work the way you said
15:17 kf they never really depend on category defaults - only what's in the patron account counts
15:17 kf if you create a new patron the defaults are copied into the patron account
15:19 datadoctor hmmm...I only have 1,927 rows in my borrower_messaging_preferences.
15:19 kf maybe I misunderstood
15:19 datadoctor or I am missing something...
15:19 kf but I think patrons that are not in borrower_messaging_preferences won't get notices
15:20 druthb They'll get overdues, and nothing else.
15:21 christophe_c left #koha
15:21 datadoctor Yes, we just turned on enhanced messaging preferences so that we can assign sms notifications for patrons.
15:23 datadoctor But found that only a small number of patrons have those preferences set - we're thinking the enhanced settings were turned on briefly in the past.
15:24 datadoctor I'm trying to figure out if I have to manually set everyone's messaging preferences ahead of time.
15:25 datadoctor We want the default behavior to be the same for each patron, but give them the ability to change their notification method later on, through the enhanced messaging preferences.
15:27 datadoctor The default behavior would be mobile no. sends to sms, no mobile + email sends to email, and no mobile, no email generates print notice.
15:27 magnuse datadoctor: you can set defaults on the patron categories
15:28 talljoy1 joined #koha
15:29 jcamins datadoctor: now that you explain what you want, that's not possible. You can set the defaults, but there's no way to have Koha make decisions about what the defaults should be based on other criteria.
15:29 datadoctor I am understanding what you are saying magnuse and jcamins.
15:31 datadoctor I'm imagining that to get the behavior I want I will have to script, using code from, to check the database for the conditions, for example mobile number present,
15:31 nengard qa folks - want to look at bug 9850 ? :)
15:31 jcamins Yes.
15:31 jcamins bug 9850
15:31 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9850 normal, P5 - low, ---, nengard, Signed Off , Koha 3.12 Help Files Update
15:31 nengard once those are pushed I'll test the variable patch
15:31 datadoctor Then modify the specific patron messaging to assign sms notification to the patron. Thanks for helping me get a grip on the issue.
15:32 datadoctor I am understanding that what I want to do is a bit beyond what the system is set up to do right now.
15:33 jcamins Yep, that is the only way I can see to do it.
15:33 datadoctor The only way I could use the category defaults would be to assign new categories for "mobile" patrons, or "email" patrons.
15:33 datadoctor And that's not ideal.
15:34 datadoctor i would still have to modify each patron
15:35 datadoctor OK, thanks - I will let you know how this turns out. Our patrons really like our sms messaging service. We use a library consortium sms gateway to send the messages.
15:35 datadoctor Which are generated as e-mails.
15:35 datadoctor from Koha.
15:37 datadoctor We have a kind of failover built in to the, to generate csv or html code if there is no e-mail address present. It would be ideal to include sms and other delivery methods in this failover capacity.
15:37 datadoctor If I come up with something useful, I will let y'all know!
15:39 datadoctor Correction: The emails are not generated by native Koha, it's a custom script for sending to the "mobile" number.
15:39 jenkins_koha Starting build #319 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:39 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs build #319: SUCCESS in 18 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ob/Koha_Docs/319/
15:39 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: fix typo
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16:28 gmcharlt khall: out of curiosity, do you know of anybody using libki with Evergreen/
16:28 gmcharlt ?
16:30 khall gmchrlt, nope, but then again I don't have a way know who's using it either. I know of a few libraries, but the project is still young and the mailing list is pretty quiet.
16:31 khall I really need to update the graphics on Version 2.0 is far prettier than pre2.0 ; )
16:32 khall the server is built on perl catalyst
16:41 gaetan_B bye !
16:48 kf bye all :)
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18:30 jcamins @quote get 123
18:30 wahanui
18:30 huginn jcamins: Quote #123: "rangi: #thingsihavelearnt if there is a mad scheme a library somewhere will be doing it ... except madder" (added by wizzyrea at 09:20 PM, March 30, 2011)
18:40 drnoe joined #koha
18:52 chris_n lol
18:57 drnoe1 joined #koha
18:57 AlohaBrooke joined #koha
18:57 AlohaBrooke Aloha
19:00 wizzyrea joined #koha
19:00 mtj heya brooke
19:00 wizzyrea joined #koha
19:00 AlohaBrooke Anyone know how slick our EDI integration is at this stage? I found some oldish stuff about a Bywater coop joint thingy but aedunno if we have it up and running yet
19:01 jcamins AlohaBrooke: there is none.
19:02 mtj hey chris_n , nice to see you over in #openlibrary :)
19:02 jcamins There's a proposed patch for 3.14.
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19:03 chris_n mtj: tnx; I've hung around there for a while now; I have a side project of doing an integration of their reader w/koha
19:03 AlohaBrooke Blech. Well I've mah answer now. Thanks :)
19:04 rambutan @seen bag
19:04 huginn rambutan: bag was last seen in #koha 11 hours, 31 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <bag> yeah clean those logs
19:06 AlohaBrooke Logging. Blind mibbit on a touch is in fact the 9th circle of hell. Thanks for the answer though. :)
19:10 talljoy joined #koha
19:10 mtj chris_n, im hoping that koha and evergreen peeps might get more involved in some OL projects
19:11 chris_n yeah, OL seems to have be sidelined of late based on some discussion some months back
19:14 mtj yeah, i had heard too
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19:15 alohabot Hi mib_2bt09z, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
19:20 khall General question, I have someone who claims that in Koha, when checking out items to someone with overdues, you only had to click the confirmation dialog once, and could then check out any number of items to the patron without seeing that warning again. I can find no proof of this. Can anyone verify or deny this claim?
19:20 khall They say it was that way in 3.8
19:21 cait khall: I think if you see the thing at all depends on a pref, but not sure if it showed up once or more times
19:21 cait I think we have turned it off
19:21 cait or at leat i believe os
19:21 khall yeah, you can set it to Warn, Ask, or Deny. But they are saying if you had it set to ask, it would only ask once
19:22 cait hm
19:22 cait no idea :(
19:22 khall I meant Ignore, not warn
19:22 cait check out 3.8and test it?
19:22 khall I did, it asks every time.
19:23 khall I'm inclined to believe he has a false memory, but I don't want to tell someone that unless I'm sure I'm correct.
19:23 jcamins khall: I am not 100% sure, but I only remember it showing the message every time.
19:24 khall me too. I can't find any evidence that he is correct
19:26 nengard jcamins will the help files make it in before gmcharlt does his branching?
19:26 jcamins nengard: I doubt it.
19:26 cait if not jcamins can still push them to 3.12
19:27 nengard k
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20:13 cait morning wiz
20:13 cait hm gone again
20:16 nengard left #koha
20:17 cait hi druthb_away
20:17 cait hm
20:18 cait gues I am always too slow tonight
20:18 Guest1168 hehe naw I'm here sorry
20:18 wizzyrea word.
20:18 cait excel?
20:18 wahanui hmmm... excel is a bit stupid.
20:19 cait where is everyone tonight? :)
20:19 jcamins wahanui: but not as stupid as Access!
20:19 wahanui jcamins: sorry...
20:19 * jcamins isn't. He no longer has to use Access!
20:21 * cait puts a bowl of cookied in th emiddle of #koha
20:22 jcamins rangi: here's something that RDA could do: the 33x fields could be used to generate icons indicating the type of media.
20:22 jcamins Totally unlike the way that you can do that with the 008.
20:22 jcamins Wait.
20:23 bag afternoon all
20:24 jcamins bag: I was just thinking about you, actually.
20:24 jcamins I was wondering if ByWater's RDA stylesheet did nice little icons for media types.
20:24 bag actually I totally agree with you on that jared about the icons
20:24 bag no icons yet
20:24 bag actually edveal-phone is working on that
20:24 bag I think he was just working on the XSLT part and Joy did the frameworks…
20:25 bag as I understand it - RDA does add some new things into the 007 or 008?
20:25 jcamins Yes.
20:26 jcamins But more goes in the 33x fields.
20:26 cait bag: hm rangi did the framework on the wiki
20:26 bag yeah I think Joy did one as a blog post
20:26 bag about the same time
20:26 jcamins He never found a good reason for it, though. :P
20:27 bag and then let rangi run with the wiki version cait :)
20:27 cait[…]i/MARC_frameworks
20:27 jcamins Oh, I was asking about the stylesheet itself, not a blog post. :)
20:27 wizzyrea ^ if it's not there, it doesn't exist.
20:27 edveal I have been focusing on the 33x stuff right now.
20:28 jcamins edveal: nifty.
20:28 bag right jcamins edveal is working on the stylesheet now :)
20:28 edveal jcamins I have not done any nice icons but that is an idea.
20:28 bag so edveal add in icons too :P
20:28 bag heh
20:28 jcamins There was just a conversation on AUTOCAT about icons.
20:28 trea joined #koha
20:28 cait bag: yep, she pointed to his framework :)
20:29 bag ahhh that's what I get for not reading talljoy's blogpost - sigh
20:29 bag and sssshhhhh
20:29 bag heh
20:29 cait anyway - rangi++ for doing it even tho he thinks it's really stupid :)
20:30 bag yup rangi++
20:30 jcamins edveal: do you have any partners using the stylesheet? I'm very curious to see if it somehow makes RDA seem useful. I'm not convinced anything could do that, stylesheet or otherwise, of course.
20:31 bag agreed jcamins :)
20:31 bag I don't think we have anyone using it yet.  we've got a few asking for the frameworks recently
20:31 bag like maybe 5 or so
20:31 bag but that's only the framework and not the xslt yet
20:32 edveal bag is right at the moment we don't
20:32 bag jcamins: once we have someone in production - I'll forward you that info :)
20:32 jcamins Ah well.
20:32 jcamins Thanks.
20:32 edveal jcamins I will let you know as well
20:40 jcamins Thanks.
20:40 * jcamins heads home.
21:12 wizzyrea what do you think, will someone, someday, want to integrate this with koha:
21:13 wizzyrea joined #koha
21:19 cait wizzyrea:  dunno - where is everyone tnight? so quiet here :)
21:19 cjh wizzyrea: I am still waiting for the Koha OS project to begin.
21:20 cait hi cjh :)
21:21 cjh morning cait :)
21:21 eythian hi
21:22 drnoe left #koha
21:23 wizzyrea hehe
21:23 wizzyrea that would have been a great joke
21:23 wizzyrea fo april fools
21:23 wizzyrea "koha OS - it does everything in your library, even make librarians coffee"
21:29 cait :)
21:30 wizzyrea khall, about?
21:35 bag wizzyrea: khall just took off for the say
21:37 wizzyrea ah fair enough
21:40 rangi yeah i didnt do my joke this year
21:40 rangi easter threw me off
21:44 gmcharlt makerspaces, 3D printers, and Koha can lead to something interesting for April 1st next year
21:45 gmcharlt as in: why settle for a mere OS? :)
21:47 bag WOW wizzyrea that santa barbara lactation link you just posted in facebook - Jessica Barton was our Doula
21:47 bag and she was an awesome lactation consultant for Sonja
21:47 wizzyrea oh cool
21:47 wizzyrea well sonja can fill out the survey :)
21:47 bag yeah totally
21:49 bag ha Sonja already did :)
21:50 rangi so who is gonna write a post for with the new release team
21:50 rangi not this guy, that's who
21:50 rangi :)
21:50 wizzyrea :)
21:51 wizzyrea I will, if I have a few minutes today
21:51 cait wizzyrea++
21:51 cait now you will have to... I gave you karma :P
21:51 wizzyrea :)
21:53 eythian the koha lists have been quiet lately
21:53 wizzyrea it's because koha is awesome!
21:54 rangi hmm true they have
21:54 rangi the devel one is all good i posted to it today
21:55 rangi what could i post to the main one to check its all working
21:55 cait hm drojf messages koha today, I dind't check if it came through
21:55 cait we had that conversation earlier today
21:55 cait that it was too quiet
21:56 eythian saturday is the last I've seen anything on the main koha list
21:56 rangi yeah
21:56 eythian koha-devel has had stuff today
21:56 rangi mailman looks fine
21:57 rangi sijobl: are you about per chance?
21:57 rangi yep nothing in april yet
21:57 rangi i wonder if the mailserver feeding it is jammed
21:57 eythian anyone have any content to test it with?
21:57 eythian rather than just sending "this is a test"
21:57 rangi well if drojf sent one
21:57 rangi earlier
21:57 eythian hmm yes
21:57 rangi thats not showing
21:58 eythian might be a chance to consolidate all the lists into one server perhaps
21:58 rangi actually i was quite glad they werent
21:59 eythian ah right :)
21:59 rangi when disappeared
21:59 rangi :)
21:59 eythian true
22:09 cait night all :)
22:09 cait left #koha
22:17 jcamins wizzyrea: we already have video and audio embedding.
22:17 wizzyrea yep, but, see tmtowtdi. :P
22:18 wizzyrea and you know someday
22:18 wizzyrea someone is going to say
22:18 wizzyrea "I already use this make it work with koha"
22:18 wizzyrea because that's just how they do.
22:18 wizzyrea i'm not saying it's right
22:18 wizzyrea just that it is
22:18 jcamins wizzyrea: there is truth to that.
22:19 wizzyrea oh YES, Pianohacker!!
22:19 wizzyrea YES!
22:19 wizzyrea awesome.
22:19 wahanui That'll be $1 for the awesome jar, wizzyrea
22:19 rangi yeah
22:19 * wizzyrea gladly pays.
22:19 wizzyrea now eythian, we need to know how many dollars there are in the awesome jar. go.
22:19 wizzyrea and top contributors.
22:19 ibeardslee wr?
22:19 wizzyrea :D
22:19 eythian ibeardslee++
22:20 ibeardslee .. .. err wrong irc server
22:20 wizzyrea ah I love you guys.
22:20 wizzyrea oh I thought that was intentional :P
22:20 wizzyrea bc that was actually quite appropriat.
22:20 wizzyrea with an e
22:20 ibeardslee sigh .. yes it was, but so was the wrong irc server comment
22:20 ibeardslee eappropriat ?
22:21 wizzyrea on the end, smarty
22:21 ibeardslee mmm smarties
22:21 eythian wizzyrea: $ expr `grep 'for the awesome jar' Debian\ Servers-#koha.log | wc -l` - 1
22:21 eythian 12
22:21 wizzyrea :D
22:22 wizzyrea well, that's couple of beers.
22:22 eythian wizzyrea buys the cheap beers, apparently
22:22 trea depending on where you drink
22:22 trea ^
22:23 * wizzyrea shrugs
22:24 jcamins Very cheap beers!
22:24 jcamins I think you might be able to get two lousy beers for $12 here in New York.
22:25 jcamins How did the the state get my name wrong?
22:32 dcook joined #koha
22:33 dcook allo #koha
22:33 dcook wizzyrea: are you around?
22:33 wizzyrea hiyas, yep
22:33 dcook do you remember if there is an existing bug for ranking cover images in the OPAC?
22:34 bag ranking?
22:34 dcook I keep thinking that oleonard had a bug for it or was at least talking about it..
22:34 dcook bag: Yeah, so that you could choose to first look at Local images then Amazon images then Google images
22:34 bag oh
22:34 dcook And if you find an image then you stop checking the other services
22:34 jcamins dcook: yeah, it's assigned to kmkale.
22:34 wizzyrea well cascading the covers has been something that has been a problem for a long time
22:35 bag well I know in 2009 or 2008 there was a patch from a guy at Howard county that started to look at that IIRC
22:35 jcamins He won't be doing anything with it, though.
22:35 bag Howard county that was an interesting one
22:37 eythian it was?
22:37 dcook Hmm, not finding the bug
22:38 * dcook looks more thoroughly
22:38 jcamins bug 7187
22:38 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7187 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kmkale, In Discussion , Prioritize cover image sources such as Amazon, Google and add fail over i.e. if first source fails, go to next
22:39 dcook Just found it as you typed that :p
22:39 wizzyrea I would be concerned that such a thing would cause performance delays
22:39 dcook I wonder why it didn't come up when I just searched for kmkale..
22:39 wizzyrea but that kind of can't be helped I guess.
22:39 dcook Hmm
22:39 dcook Maybe
22:39 dcook Depending on how it checks, I could see it improving performance, no?
22:40 jcamins wizzyrea: I have a jury-rigged priority thing that loads both simultaneously, and tosses the efforts that didn't work and/or selects the preferred.
22:40 wizzyrea that would be good
22:41 jcamins Unfortunately, it does that by taking advantage of peculiarities in the OPAC I'm using it on.
22:42 eythian I've been planning a nice fancy way of doing this, but been waiting for libraries to want to give us money for it.
22:42 * wizzyrea points at the awesome jar
22:42 wizzyrea oh wait.
22:42 wizzyrea drats.
22:42 jcamins Ditto.
22:43 jcamins Though mostly I'm waiting for someone to pay you to do it.
22:44 dcook Yeah, admittedly, I don't have any real incentive at the moment to do it either, since it hasn't come up as a priority
22:46 dcook It might be worth it to still add a function to delete "no cover image" found if there is an image thumbnail existing for that record though
22:47 dcook Although again...we don't really deal with that, as we mostly hide the "no cover image available" anyway
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