Time  Nick         Message
22:47 dcook        Although again...we don't really deal with that, as we mostly hide the "no cover image available" anyway
22:46 dcook        It might be worth it to still add a function to delete "no cover image" found if there is an image thumbnail existing for that record though
22:44 dcook        Yeah, admittedly, I don't have any real incentive at the moment to do it either, since it hasn't come up as a priority
22:43 jcamins      Though mostly I'm waiting for someone to pay you to do it.
22:42 jcamins      Ditto.
22:42 wizzyrea     drats.
22:42 wizzyrea     oh wait.
22:42 * wizzyrea   points at the awesome jar
22:42 eythian      I've been planning a nice fancy way of doing this, but been waiting for libraries to want to give us money for it.
22:41 jcamins      Unfortunately, it does that by taking advantage of peculiarities in the OPAC I'm using it on.
22:40 wizzyrea     that would be good
22:40 jcamins      wizzyrea: I have a jury-rigged priority thing that loads both simultaneously, and tosses the efforts that didn't work and/or selects the preferred.
22:39 dcook        Depending on how it checks, I could see it improving performance, no?
22:39 dcook        Maybe
22:39 dcook        Hmm
22:39 wizzyrea     but that kind of can't be helped I guess.
22:39 dcook        I wonder why it didn't come up when I just searched for kmkale..
22:39 wizzyrea     I would be concerned that such a thing would cause performance delays
22:39 dcook        Just found it as you typed that :p
22:38 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7187 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kmkale, In Discussion , Prioritize cover image sources such as Amazon, Google and add fail over i.e. if first source fails, go to next
22:38 jcamins      bug 7187
22:38 * dcook      looks more thoroughly
22:37 dcook        Hmm, not finding the bug
22:37 eythian      it was?
22:35 bag          Howard county that was an interesting one
22:35 jcamins      He won't be doing anything with it, though.
22:35 bag          well I know in 2009 or 2008 there was a patch from a guy at Howard county that started to look at that IIRC
22:34 wizzyrea     well cascading the covers has been something that has been a problem for a long time
22:34 jcamins      dcook: yeah, it's assigned to kmkale.
22:34 dcook        And if you find an image then you stop checking the other services
22:34 bag          oh
22:34 dcook        bag: Yeah, so that you could choose to first look at Local images then Amazon images then Google images
22:34 dcook        I keep thinking that oleonard had a bug for it or was at least talking about it..
22:34 bag          ranking?
22:33 dcook        do you remember if there is an existing bug for ranking cover images in the OPAC?
22:33 wizzyrea     hiyas, yep
22:33 dcook        wizzyrea: are you around?
22:33 dcook        allo #koha
22:25 jcamins      How did the the state get my name wrong?
22:24 jcamins      I think you might be able to get two lousy beers for $12 here in New York.
22:24 jcamins      Very cheap beers!
22:23 * wizzyrea   shrugs
22:22 trea         ^
22:22 trea         depending on where you drink
22:22 eythian      wizzyrea buys the cheap beers, apparently
22:22 wizzyrea     well, that's couple of beers.
22:21 wizzyrea     :D
22:21 eythian      12
22:21 eythian      wizzyrea: $ expr `grep 'for the awesome jar' Debian\ Servers-#koha.log | wc -l` - 1
22:21 ibeardslee   mmm smarties
22:21 wizzyrea     on the end, smarty
22:20 ibeardslee   eappropriat ?
22:20 ibeardslee   sigh .. yes it was, but so was the wrong irc server comment
22:20 wizzyrea     with an e
22:20 wizzyrea     bc that was actually quite appropriat.
22:20 wizzyrea     oh I thought that was intentional :P
22:20 wizzyrea     ah I love you guys.
22:20 ibeardslee   .. .. err wrong irc server
22:19 eythian      ibeardslee++
22:19 wizzyrea     :D
22:19 ibeardslee   wr?
22:19 wizzyrea     and top contributors.
22:19 wizzyrea     now eythian, we need to know how many dollars there are in the awesome jar. go.
22:19 * wizzyrea   gladly pays.
22:19 rangi        yeah
22:19 wahanui      That'll be $1 for the awesome jar, wizzyrea
22:19 wizzyrea     awesome.
22:19 wizzyrea     YES!
22:19 wizzyrea     oh YES, Pianohacker!!
22:18 jcamins      wizzyrea: there is truth to that.
22:18 wizzyrea     just that it is
22:18 wizzyrea     i'm not saying it's right
22:18 wizzyrea     because that's just how they do.
22:18 wizzyrea     "I already use this make it work with koha"
22:18 wizzyrea     someone is going to say
22:18 wizzyrea     and you know someday
22:17 wizzyrea     yep, but, see tmtowtdi. :P
22:17 jcamins      wizzyrea: we already have video and audio embedding.
22:09 cait         night all :)
21:59 eythian      true
21:59 rangi        :)
21:59 rangi        when lists.koha.org disappeared
21:59 eythian      ah right :)
21:58 rangi        actually i was quite glad they werent
21:58 eythian      might be a chance to consolidate all the lists into one server perhaps
21:57 rangi        thats not showing
21:57 eythian      hmm yes
21:57 rangi        earlier
21:57 rangi        well if drojf sent one
21:57 eythian      rather than just sending "this is a test"
21:57 eythian      anyone have any content to test it with?
21:57 rangi        i wonder if the mailserver feeding it is jammed
21:57 rangi        yep nothing in april yet
21:57 rangi        sijobl: are you about per chance?
21:56 rangi        mailman looks fine
21:56 eythian      koha-devel has had stuff today
21:56 rangi        yeah
21:56 eythian      saturday is the last I've seen anything on the main koha list
21:55 cait         that it was too quiet
21:55 cait         we had that conversation earlier today
21:55 cait         hm drojf messages koha today, I dind't check if it came through
21:55 rangi        what could i post to the main one to check its all working
21:54 rangi        the devel one is all good i posted to it today
21:54 rangi        hmm true they have
21:53 wizzyrea     it's because koha is awesome!
21:53 eythian      the koha lists have been quiet lately
21:51 wizzyrea     :)
21:51 cait         now you will have to... I gave you karma :P
21:51 cait         wizzyrea++
21:51 wizzyrea     I will, if I have a few minutes today
21:50 wizzyrea     :)
21:50 rangi        :)
21:50 rangi        not this guy, that's who
21:50 rangi        so who is gonna write a post for koha-community.org with the new release team
21:49 bag          ha Sonja already did :)
21:47 bag          yeah totally
21:47 wizzyrea     well sonja can fill out the survey :)
21:47 wizzyrea     oh cool
21:47 bag          and she was an awesome lactation consultant for Sonja
21:47 bag          WOW wizzyrea that santa barbara lactation link you just posted in facebook - Jessica Barton was our Doula
21:45 gmcharlt     as in: why settle for a mere OS? :)
21:44 gmcharlt     makerspaces, 3D printers, and Koha can lead to something interesting for April 1st next year
21:40 rangi        easter threw me off
21:40 rangi        yeah i didnt do my joke this year
21:37 wizzyrea     ah fair enough
21:35 bag          wizzyrea: khall just took off for the say
21:30 wizzyrea     khall, about?
21:29 cait         :)
21:23 wizzyrea     "koha OS - it does everything in your library, even make librarians coffee"
21:23 wizzyrea     fo april fools
21:23 wizzyrea     that would have been a great joke
21:23 wizzyrea     hehe
21:21 eythian      hi
21:21 cjh          morning cait :)
21:20 cait         hi cjh :)
21:19 cjh          wizzyrea: I am still waiting for the Koha OS project to begin.
21:19 cait         wizzyrea:  dunno - where is everyone tnight? so quiet here :)
21:12 wizzyrea     what do you think, will someone, someday, want to integrate this with koha: http://mediacorecommunity.org/
20:40 * jcamins    heads home.
20:40 jcamins      Thanks.
20:32 edveal       jcamins I will let you know as well
20:32 jcamins      Thanks.
20:32 jcamins      Ah well.
20:32 bag          jcamins: once we have someone in production - I'll forward you that info :)
20:32 edveal       bag is right at the moment we don't
20:31 bag          but that's only the framework and not the xslt yet
20:31 bag          like maybe 5 or so
20:31 bag          I don't think we have anyone using it yet.  we've got a few asking for the frameworks recently
20:31 bag          agreed jcamins :)
20:30 jcamins      edveal: do you have any partners using the stylesheet? I'm very curious to see if it somehow makes RDA seem useful. I'm not convinced anything could do that, stylesheet or otherwise, of course.
20:30 bag          yup rangi++
20:29 cait         anyway - rangi++ for doing it even tho he thinks it's really stupid :)
20:29 bag          heh
20:29 bag          and sssshhhhh
20:29 bag          ahhh that's what I get for not reading talljoy's blogpost - sigh
20:28 cait         bag: yep, she pointed to his framework :)
20:28 jcamins      There was just a conversation on AUTOCAT about icons.
20:28 bag          heh
20:28 bag          so edveal add in icons too :P
20:28 edveal       jcamins I have not done any nice icons but that is an idea.
20:28 bag          right jcamins edveal is working on the stylesheet now :)
20:28 jcamins      edveal: nifty.
20:27 edveal       I have been focusing on the 33x stuff right now.
20:27 wizzyrea     ^ if it's not there, it doesn't exist.
20:27 jcamins      Oh, I was asking about the stylesheet itself, not a blog post. :)
20:27 cait         http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/MARC_frameworks
20:27 bag          and then let rangi run with the wiki version cait :)
20:26 jcamins      He never found a good reason for it, though. :P
20:26 bag          about the same time
20:26 bag          yeah I think Joy did one as a blog post
20:26 cait         bag: hm rangi did the framework on the wiki
20:26 jcamins      But more goes in the 33x fields.
20:25 jcamins      Yes.
20:25 bag          as I understand it - RDA does add some new things into the 007 or 008?
20:24 bag          I think he was just working on the XSLT part and Joy did the frameworks…
20:24 bag          actually edveal-phone is working on that
20:24 bag          no icons yet
20:24 bag          actually I totally agree with you on that jared about the icons
20:24 jcamins      I was wondering if ByWater's RDA stylesheet did nice little icons for media types.
20:24 jcamins      bag: I was just thinking about you, actually.
20:23 bag          afternoon all
20:22 jcamins      Wait.
20:22 jcamins      Totally unlike the way that you can do that with the 008.
20:22 jcamins      rangi: here's something that RDA could do: the 33x fields could be used to generate icons indicating the type of media.
20:21 * cait       puts a bowl of cookied in th emiddle of #koha
20:19 * jcamins    isn't. He no longer has to use Access!
20:19 wahanui      jcamins: sorry...
20:19 jcamins      wahanui: but not as stupid as Access!
20:19 cait         where is everyone tonight? :)
20:18 wahanui      hmmm... excel is a bit stupid.
20:18 cait         excel?
20:18 wizzyrea     word.
20:18 Guest1168    hehe naw I'm here sorry
20:18 cait         gues I am always too slow tonight
20:17 cait         hm
20:17 cait         hi druthb_away
20:13 cait         hm gone again
20:13 cait         morning wiz
19:27 nengard      k
19:26 cait         if not jcamins can still push them to 3.12
19:26 jcamins      nengard: I doubt it.
19:26 nengard      jcamins will the help files make it in before gmcharlt does his branching?
19:24 khall        me too. I can't find any evidence that he is correct
19:23 jcamins      khall: I am not 100% sure, but I only remember it showing the message every time.
19:23 khall        I'm inclined to believe he has a false memory, but I don't want to tell someone that unless I'm sure I'm correct.
19:22 khall        I did, it asks every time.
19:22 cait         check out 3.8and test it?
19:22 khall        I meant Ignore, not warn
19:22 cait         no idea :(
19:22 cait         hm
19:21 khall        yeah, you can set it to Warn, Ask, or Deny. But they are saying if you had it set to ask, it would only ask once
19:21 cait         or at leat i believe os
19:21 cait         I think we have turned it off
19:21 cait         khall: I think if you see the thing at all depends on a pref, but not sure if it showed up once or more times
19:20 khall        They say it was that way in 3.8
19:20 khall        General question, I have someone who claims that in Koha, when checking out items to someone with overdues, you only had to click the confirmation dialog once, and could then check out any number of items to the patron without seeing that warning again. I can find no proof of this. Can anyone verify or deny this claim?
19:15 alohabot     Hi mib_2bt09z, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
19:14 mtj          yeah, i had heard too
19:11 chris_n      yeah, OL seems to have be sidelined of late based on some discussion some months back
19:10 mtj          chris_n, im hoping that koha and evergreen peeps might get more involved in some OL projects
19:06 AlohaBrooke  Logging. Blind mibbit on a touch is in fact the 9th circle of hell. Thanks for the answer though. :)
19:04 huginn       rambutan: bag was last seen in #koha 11 hours, 31 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <bag> yeah clean those logs
19:04 rambutan     @seen bag
19:03 AlohaBrooke  Blech. Well I've mah answer now. Thanks :)
19:03 chris_n      mtj: tnx; I've hung around there for a while now; I have a side project of doing an integration of their reader w/koha
19:02 jcamins      There's a proposed patch for 3.14.
19:02 mtj          hey chris_n , nice to see you over in #openlibrary :)
19:01 jcamins      AlohaBrooke: there is none.
19:00 AlohaBrooke  Anyone know how slick our EDI integration is at this stage? I found some oldish stuff about a Bywater coop joint thingy but aedunno if we have it up and running yet
19:00 mtj          heya brooke
18:57 AlohaBrooke  Aloha
18:52 chris_n      lol
18:30 huginn       jcamins: Quote #123: "rangi: #thingsihavelearnt if there is a mad scheme a library somewhere will be doing it ... except madder" (added by wizzyrea at 09:20 PM, March 30, 2011)
18:30 wahanui      http://xkcd.com/1172/
18:30 jcamins      @quote get 123
16:48 kf           bye all :)
16:41 gaetan_B     bye !
16:32 khall        the server is built on perl catalyst
16:31 khall        I really need to update the graphics on libki.org. Version 2.0 is far prettier than pre2.0 ; )
16:30 khall        gmchrlt, nope, but then again I don't have a way know who's using it either. I know of a few libraries, but the project is still young and the mailing list is pretty quiet.
16:28 gmcharlt     ?
16:28 gmcharlt     khall: out of curiosity, do you know of anybody using libki with Evergreen/
15:39 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: fix typo
15:39 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs build #319: SUCCESS in 18 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Docs/319/
15:39 jenkins_koha Starting build #319 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:39 datadoctor   Correction: The emails are not generated by native Koha, it's a custom script for sending to the "mobile" number.
15:37 datadoctor   If I come up with something useful, I will let y'all know!
15:37 datadoctor   We have a kind of failover built in to the overdue_notice.pl, to generate csv or html code if there is no e-mail address present. It would be ideal to include sms and other delivery methods in this failover capacity.
15:35 datadoctor   from Koha.
15:35 datadoctor   Which are generated as e-mails.
15:35 datadoctor   OK, thanks - I will let you know how this turns out. Our patrons really like our sms messaging service. We use a library consortium sms gateway to send the messages.
15:34 datadoctor   i would still have to modify each patron
15:33 datadoctor   And that's not ideal.
15:33 datadoctor   The only way I could use the category defaults would be to assign new categories for "mobile" patrons, or "email" patrons.
15:33 jcamins      Yep, that is the only way I can see to do it.
15:32 datadoctor   I am understanding that what I want to do is a bit beyond what the system is set up to do right now.
15:31 datadoctor   Then modify the specific patron messaging to assign sms notification to the patron. Thanks for helping me get a grip on the issue.
15:31 nengard      once those are pushed I'll test the variable patch
15:31 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9850 normal, P5 - low, ---, nengard, Signed Off , Koha 3.12 Help Files Update
15:31 jcamins      bug 9850
15:31 jcamins      Yes.
15:31 nengard      qa folks - want to look at bug 9850 ? :)
15:31 datadoctor   I'm imagining that to get the behavior I want I will have to script, using code from messaging.pm, to check the database for the conditions, for example mobile number present,
15:29 datadoctor   I am understanding what you are saying magnuse and jcamins.
15:29 jcamins      datadoctor: now that you explain what you want, that's not possible. You can set the defaults, but there's no way to have Koha make decisions about what the defaults should be based on other criteria.
15:27 magnuse      datadoctor: you can set defaults on the patron categories
15:27 datadoctor   The default behavior would be mobile no. sends to sms, no mobile + email sends to email, and no mobile, no email generates print notice.
15:25 datadoctor   We want the default behavior to be the same for each patron, but give them the ability to change their notification method later on, through the enhanced messaging preferences.
15:24 datadoctor   I'm trying to figure out if I have to manually set everyone's messaging preferences ahead of time.
15:23 datadoctor   But found that only a small number of patrons have those preferences set - we're thinking the enhanced settings were turned on briefly in the past.
15:21 datadoctor   Yes, we just turned on enhanced messaging preferences so that we can assign sms notifications for patrons.
15:20 druthb       They'll get overdues, and nothing else.
15:19 kf           but I think patrons that are not in borrower_messaging_preferences won't get notices
15:19 datadoctor   or I am missing something...
15:19 kf           maybe I misunderstood
15:19 datadoctor   hmmm...I only have 1,927 rows in my borrower_messaging_preferences.
15:17 kf           if you create a new patron the defaults are copied into the patron account
15:17 kf           they never really depend on category defaults - only what's in the patron account counts
15:17 kf           datadoctor: there is a script for that - but it doesn't work the way you said
15:16 kf           datadoctor: hm be careful
15:16 datadoctor   Very cool jcamins!
15:16 jcamins      Yes.
15:16 datadoctor   Wow! There is a script for that?
15:16 datadoctor   Maybe I just need to delete the legacy messaging preferences, then the category defaults would take over.
15:16 jcamins      There's a script for resetting messaging preferences to category defaults.
15:15 datadoctor   In the past, enhanced messaging was turned on, so I have some patrons with enhanced messaging preferences, and some depending upon category defaults.
15:14 datadoctor   I understand. I'm experiencing a problem with legacy data.
15:14 jcamins      You can't really have a default that only applies to one person, though.
15:14 jcamins      Or set the actual messaging preferences for the patron.
15:14 jcamins      You can set a default for the category.
15:13 datadoctor   When a borrower is created, would it be possible to assign patron-specific default messaging preferences?
15:12 reiveune     bye
15:11 datadoctor   Hasta mañana!
15:04 * Viktor     Is packing up to go home while pondering how nice the community is
15:01 khall        I ended up writing SIP2 code by hand for Libki. I figure it's probably faster that way anyway.
15:01 khall        magnuse, thanks! I had passed that over before. I'll have to take another look.
15:00 jcamins      Zero-width selections are problematic in web browsers.
15:00 * magnuse    wanders off to dinner
15:00 magnuse      khall: it's geared towards testing, so it's too verbose for actual use, but by just commenting some of the output i was able to use it in a project i work on
14:59 khall        agreed, I never thought I'd understand SIP, but I learned it under fire ; )
14:59 chris_n      jcamins: lol
14:59 magnuse      jcamins: lol
14:59 magnuse      khall: https://github.com/dpavlin/Biblio-SIP2
14:59 jcamins      khall: because SIP is miserable to work with, and Perl programmers don't like being miserable? ;)
14:58 khall        That's correct, no SIP2 built into pykota
14:58 magnuse      khall: dpavlin has made one that might be used with a few fixes
14:58 * magnuse    thinks *everything* should support SIP2
14:58 jcamins      That's a pity.
14:58 khall        General rant: why is there no SIP client library written in Perl? There's one for PHP!
14:58 jcamins      pykota doesn't already support SIP2?
14:57 khall        jcamins, yes, that may be the way to do it. Or add a service API to Koha ( which may be more reliable ).
14:57 jcamins      Not that I know how, but I know self-check machines do it.
14:57 jcamins      Nice and easy.
14:57 jcamins      khall: you can set fees using SIP2.
14:57 kf           and authentication
14:57 khall        Libki does support SIP2, so it can act as a go-between of Koha and PyKota.
14:57 kf           khall: I think he meant for setting the fee :)
14:56 khall        jcamins, why doesn't what use sip? The idea is, for the purposes of printing, to masquarade as the libki user, instead of the actual OS user.
14:56 * jcamins    glares at his web browser.
14:55 tcohen       'hmm, we are missing db host there
14:54 jcamins      khall: why doesn't it just use SIP?
14:54 magnuse      tcohen: do "man koha-create" to get a description of the options
14:54 Viktor       knall That would be great!
14:54 jcamins      I'm pretty sure you have to go in and edit the configuration file if you're using --request-db.
14:54 khall        Viktor, I'm hoping to add that to Koha.
14:54 tcohen       oops
14:53 tcohen       ssh koha-demo -lroot
14:53 khall        chris_n: yeah, in years past it wouldn't have been such a big deal, but budgets are getting tighter.
14:53 Viktor       Will PyKota talk to Koha and add the cost of printing something to a patrons account?
14:53 magnuse      i have never used them, but they let you create an instance without creating a db on the localhost at the same time
14:53 jcamins      tcohen: I use /etc/koha/passwd
14:53 chris_n      khall: ouch!
14:53 tcohen       --request-db will ask me for input?
14:52 magnuse      tcohen: have a look at the --request-db and --populate-db options to koha-create
14:51 tcohen       (got to deploy 38 instances actually, want to script it)
14:51 tcohen       i have a db name, user, password, host, a SQL and want to use koha-create to generate an instance, any pointers?
14:50 khall        MPL is losing over $1000 a year in people not paying for printed pages, so we are looking to implement pykota for the entire system
14:50 khall        http://www.pykota.com/
14:50 kf           heh
14:49 * chris_n    looks around carefully for the snake
14:49 khall        it's a print management system, written in Python
14:49 Viktor       chris_n I'm curious too. Anything starting with "py" gets my attention.
14:48 kf           chris_n: what is pykota? :)
14:47 gmcharlt     chris_n: I am now! :)
14:47 chris_n      gmcharlt: out looking for heroes today?
14:45 khall        I'll have to do that. Thanks!
14:45 chris_n      I'll be glad to help all I can
14:45 chris_n      khall: feel free to hang around in #pykota on freenode; sometimes rambutan is there as well
14:44 chris_n      heh
14:44 huginn       gmcharlt: Quote #159: "slef: WELCOME TO HOOGERLAND. POPULATION: HEROES" (added by wizzyrea at 05:00 PM, September 23, 2011)
14:44 gmcharlt     @quote random
14:44 khall        I was hoping there would be a way for me to send the libki username as the user who is printing, but I don't know if it's possible. I can look up the username in the libki database, but I was hoping to avoid having to make a call to another server on the network.
14:43 chris_n      there you go :-)
14:42 chris_n      heh
14:42 chris_n      since the script can be written in any language, maybe you can munge up something in php and take advantage of libki's api
14:42 khall        chris_n, I'm the author for libki, so I can modify the client if needed. What I'd really like to do is integrate pykota with libki and koha. I want to be able to print as the libki username. So even if I'm logged in as 'public1', I'm logging into libki as 'khall'. So I need a way to send 'khall' as the print user. On the Koha side, I'll add some integration so creating 'print management fees' in Koha will add credits to the pykota da
14:40 chris_n      libki rather
14:39 chris_n      I'm not familiar with libwiki or I might be able to help with the rest
14:39 khall        thanks chris_n!
14:38 chris_n      khall: I sent along a copy of the usermap script we use for pykota
14:31 magnuse      hehe
14:31 Viktor       :)
14:31 Viktor       magnuse The race is on!
14:30 magnuse      Viktor: i asked Datatilsynet about something and i think it took 3-4 weeks to get the reply :-)
14:29 Viktor       (but we do actually have quite good authorities in general. They do their job without to many stunts)
14:28 jcamins      Apparently so!
14:28 Viktor       jcamins I'm an optimist :)
14:27 Viktor       I'll give you a shout when I get the reply kf :)
14:27 jcamins      If I were asking for an answer from the government, I would expect at least a six month delay. :P
14:27 jcamins      Viktor: just a day or two?
14:27 kf           Viktor: would be interested in the outcome :)
14:27 Viktor       I just asked our official government body. Guess it will take a day or two though to get the reply.
14:26 kf           we discussed it briefly here... but not sure really
14:26 Viktor       Living on the edge :)
14:25 kf           or maybe just export some tables, but not all.
14:25 kf           :)
14:25 kf           magnuse: so the answer is not keep backups?
14:16 magnuse      kf: here's one view of it. libraries anonymize circ history so the fbi (or whoever) can't see what patrons have borrwed earlier. but if you have backups that go a long way back, the fbi could ask to see the backups, and so get access to at least a slice of the circ history
14:16 kf           hm I amnot sure it is, but right now my brain is in knots :)
14:16 Viktor       It just dawned on me that a good backup plan for the database is in conflict with anonymizing loans (at least in theory).
14:15 Viktor       Yep. I like safe.
14:14 kf           part of data privacy is making sure the data is safe
14:14 kf           I think maybe different things
14:14 kf           :)
14:14 kf           I guess I am confused now
14:12 magnuse      kf: but your backup will contain every checkout/loan/issue that was active at the time yu made the backup
14:11 Viktor       kf Yes we do plan to anonymize immediately. But if I restore a backup from two weeks ago I can still see who had the book at the time?
14:11 vfernandes   i've an attribute to save patron job, and I need to present it besides patron name
14:11 kf           vfernandes: I don't know - maybe it's in the manual or bugzilla
14:10 kf           Viktor: hmm, how are backups and circ history related? couldn't you keep the backups and still anonymize immediately?
14:10 vfernandes   one little question: it's possible to list a adittional attribute in patron cards?
14:09 Viktor       magnuse :)
14:09 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9740 normal, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, Failed QA , using XSLT modifies record authorized values
14:09 jcamins      bug 9740
14:09 magnuse      bug 9740
14:09 kf           I am not sure I get that one
14:09 kf           can someone take a look at 9740?
14:08 magnuse      jcamins: too bad ;-)
14:08 magnuse      Viktor: oh i'd be glad to do that. by hand. ;-)
14:08 jcamins      magnuse: it wasn't as exciting as it sounds.
14:08 vfernandes   one little question: it's possible to list a adittional attribute in patron cards?
14:08 magnuse      "special training for dealing with the FBI" sounds awesome!
14:08 Viktor       kf I shure hope that I'll never have to lose a whole month. It would be a mess. But I can't have Magnus verifying backups are ok every 10 minutes either ;)
14:08 magnuse      ooh
14:07 jcamins      When I was a student employee at my university library, we actually had special training for dealing with the FBI.
14:07 vfernandes   hello :)
14:07 * magnuse    remembers the story of libraries putting up sign saying "the fbi has not been here today" and taking them down if they got a visit
14:06 Viktor       jcamins Any and all librarians of course :) But I love how they stood up to the madness.
14:06 kf           anonymize is key with Koha I think - because issues is used for stats and I think statistics for the counts of how many times items were checked out and the like
14:06 Viktor       jcamins I love US librarians!
14:06 kf           hm maybe
14:05 Viktor       kf agreed - It's only as a backup to the backup. Worst case scenario.
14:05 kf           what you need to keep because it's expensive to recreate is item and bibliographic information
14:05 kf           Viktor: I mean your library will be a mess :)
14:05 kf           there happen too many things in just a few hours, you would never be sure who has a book
14:05 Viktor       kf Too little or not acceptable to lose a whole month?
14:04 magnuse      it will if you have a total crash and corrupt backups and that is alll you are left with... ;-)
14:04 jcamins      Here in the US, libraries are encouraged to keep their circulation history so that the government can subpoena them. Most libraries choose to shred the information as soon as they can to avoid the pain of FBI investigations.
14:04 kf           Viktor: I think a month old backup of circulation data won't help you
14:04 Viktor       kf magnuse :)
14:04 magnuse      Viktor: sounds like a very good idea
14:03 Viktor       magnuse and I will have to sort out how often and what intervals. But I guess I'll check backups with Datainspektionen.
14:03 magnuse      ooh, you ought to know that kf ;-)
14:03 kf           but not sure how many days they are kept
14:02 kf           we do a nightly full backup and hourly transaction logs
14:02 kf           ...
14:02 kf           and you need someone who checks that the backups really work
14:02 kf           but you can't keep bakcups forever
14:02 kf           Viktor: backups are different I think
14:02 Viktor       kf but I think we have quite similar laws. I recognize the way of thinking "explain why"
14:02 kf           magnuse: don't forget to update items and reindex
14:01 magnuse      or 2 or 3 months
14:01 magnuse      kf: yeah, the ideal is immediate anonymization. but what if you feel like you have to keep backups for a month?
14:01 Viktor       kf What we need isn't who borrowed what but being able to import older backups if more recent ones prove to be corrupt.
14:01 kf           at least I have to :)
14:01 kf           etc.
14:01 kf           what you do with the data
14:01 kf           and when you delete it
14:01 kf           you have to describe what data you store
14:01 kf           because when you don't notice on return at the circulation desk - how would you proof that this borrower was the one who damaged the book?
14:00 kf           but even that is a bit difficult
14:00 magnuse      kf: a concept?
14:00 kf           you can argue that you want to keep the last borrower (for some time) becuase the book might be damaged
14:00 Viktor       Interesting - we have Datainspektionen. They might know. They should :)
14:00 kf           so what would a library do with information about who borrowed what?
14:00 kf           and you can't keep data you have no reason for to keep
14:00 kf           you need a concept
14:00 kf           Viktor: it depends on laws but not sure if there is explicit way to handle that
13:59 magnuse      in norway, they are the ones who have the official opinion on stuff like that
13:59 Viktor       I asked on Twitter to get local feedback but it's been quiet.
13:59 magnuse      my plan is to ask the norwegian "data directorat" ("Datatilsynet") what they think
13:59 drojf        yeah it is an interesting question
13:59 Viktor       I think so too magnuse
13:58 magnuse      Viktor: we probably have very similar laws in norway. the question of backups is an interesting one, that i have never heard anyone mention
13:58 Viktor       I guess it might be ok since it's not really a way to snoop around accessible to regular librarians. But input is appreciated :)
13:57 Viktor       I'll ask when I get the chance.
13:56 drojf        Viktor: we have to do that in germany AFAIK. kf might be an expert ;)
13:56 Viktor       We do and I wonder a bit how to handle the fact that we want a decent amount of database backups which makes it possible to backtrack who borrowed what.
13:55 Viktor       Does anyone online at the moment have local laws requiring anonymization of circulation history?
13:09 tcohen       yes, thanks jcamins drojf
13:08 jcamins      tcohen: I think gmcharlt was waiting until he was elected to start changing procedures willy-nilly. :)
13:04 drojf        tcohen: you could put it on the agenda for next meeting http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting,_7_May_2013
13:03 tcohen       will we?
13:03 tcohen       we didn't talk about it on the IRC meeting
13:02 tcohen       question: there was a proposal on koha-dev for being module maintainer
12:47 tcohen       morning #koha
12:47 edveal       Good morning
12:46 magnuse      hm, i'll have to think about that while i walk the dogs, i think...
12:45 jcamins      That makes more sense than simply wanting to renew everything.
12:44 magnuse      hm, maybe
12:43 jcamins      Oh, they want more notices.
12:42 magnuse      there are libraries that want to send out reminders, but they don't want to lean heavily on patrons unless there are actually people waiting for a book
12:42 jcamins      magnuse: I can't help but feel that they want to do something elese.
12:42 magnuse      jcamins: cause a customer is asking for it? :-)
12:42 magnuse      druthb: yup
12:41 jcamins      Why would you want to, though?
12:41 druthb       What you'll wanna do is select itemnumber,borrowernumber from issues, then for each, check to see if it *can* be renewed (there's a C4::Circulation func for that, I think), then AddRenewal, IIRC
12:41 magnuse      but yeah, it should not be too hard, if the objective really is to renew *everything*, without exceptions
12:40 jcamins      lol
12:40 druthb       hehehe.
12:40 magnuse      i just looked at some of the sql i circ/overdue.pl and am now almost blind...
12:39 magnuse      yeah, that is the conclusion i am about to draw, druthb
12:39 magnuse      thanks jcamins, that's what i thought
12:39 druthb       it would be relatively easy to write a script to do that from the command line, but there's not a way to do that in the interface, surely.
12:38 jcamins      magnuse: not that I know of.
12:38 magnuse      trying this with a new audience: is there a way to renew *all* overdue loans? not just for one patron, but for all of them, in one fell swoop?
12:38 druthb       :D
12:37 magnuse      o/
12:37 jcamins      o/
12:35 druthb       o/
12:22 jcamins      rangi, I think.
12:21 magnuse      does anyone know who we can poke at katipo? lists.katipo.co.nz is not listed on http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Website_Administration
12:12 jcamins      Well, yes, that is true.
12:11 magnuse      i'd say 4 days without any messages is not looking good anyway...
12:01 drojf        hrm no, that is not looking good
11:57 wahanui      OK, kf.
11:57 kf           wahanui: and is a boolean operator like or, and not.
11:56 jcamins      Not looking good.
11:56 drojf        nothing so far but it takes a few minutes sometimes
11:56 wahanui      kf: I forgot and
11:56 kf           wahanui: forget and
11:56 wahanui      and is that patch only for "$" or for "$ CAD" ?
11:56 kf           and?
11:55 drojf        done
11:52 drojf        ok i'll testmail the list
11:50 jcamins      magnuse: no idea.
11:49 magnuse      s/new/news/
11:49 magnuse      in possibly related new: where did irc.katipo.co.nz go?
11:49 * jcamins    nominates drojf.
11:49 magnuse      yup
11:48 jcamins      Someone should send an e-mail to the main list.
11:48 magnuse      hm, no april here: http://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/
11:48 drojf        i would have expected a fancier ending
11:48 magnuse      yay!
11:47 drojf        :D
11:47 drojf        game over
11:47 drojf        let's face it, we answered all the questions
11:47 jcamins      It does, doesn't it?
11:46 drojf        yeah i go those, that looks alright. but 4 days no mails on main seems strange
11:46 jcamins      http://lists.koha-community.org/pipermail/koha-devel/2013-April/date.html
11:46 jcamins      Three.
11:46 jcamins      There were a few messages from the dev list.
11:46 drojf        two days ago from the dev list seems ok
11:44 drojf        last emails on main list came on 30.3.
11:44 drojf        what happened to our mailing lists? i think i did not get any mails the last days, only from bugzilla?!
11:43 drojf        that's a stupid rule
11:43 drojf        ah
11:43 kf           you can't register 2 letter nicks with nickserv...
11:43 drojf        ?
11:43 kf           only temporarily
11:42 drojf        hi mighty kf ;)
11:42 kf           hey jcamins and drojf
11:40 jcamins      (not a Koha mailing list)
11:40 jcamins      Wow... the guy on the mailing list who keeps on sending inappropriate messages just doesn't learn.
11:35 alohabot     Hi mib_gg0tzu, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
11:34 alohabot     Hi mib_caczoy, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
11:30 samuel       magnuse: i've resolved my problem, zebra seems to run correctly
11:20 magnuse      wise ;-)
11:19 drojf        i for one welcome our new ops overlords ;)
11:19 magnuse      :-)
11:19 magnuse      yeah, right
11:19 drojf        with great power comes great responsibility blah blah :P
11:18 magnuse      my thought exactly :-)
11:13 jcamins      Bwahahaha! Power!
10:53 marcelr      yes before kicked out
10:53 drojf        hi marcelr :)
10:53 drojf        oh my, a lot of people i have to be nice to from now on
10:53 marcelr      hi drojf
10:52 drojf        good day #koha
10:04 wizzyrea     or whoever you are running zebra as.
10:03 wizzyrea     make sure they are owned by the koha user
10:03 * wizzyrea   guesses permissions
10:03 samuel       yes, i think so, i'll test after lunch
10:03 magnuse      maybe some dirs that have not been created or have the wrong permissions? "chdir /var/lib/koha/zebradb/biblios [No such file or directory]"
10:02 samuel       koha@bibkoha:/var/lock$ zebrasrv -f /etc/koha/koha-conf.xml 11:58:38-04/04 [warn] chdir /var/lib/koha/zebradb/biblios [No such file or directory] 11:58:38-04/04 [log] zebra_start 2.0.44 419ad759807269fdfa379799a051ed3a551c6541 11:58:38-04/04 [log] config /etc/koha/zebradb/zebra-biblios-dom.cfg 11:58:38-04/04 [log] Loaded filter module /usr/lib/idzebra-2.0/mod
10:01 samuel       yes
10:00 wizzyrea     hehe
10:00 wizzyrea     running as the wrong user?
10:00 magnuse      and are you running the command as the right user when you try to run whatever gives you the "[fatal] lock file" error?
09:58 samuel       root@bibkoha:/var/lock# ps -aux | grep zebra Warning: bad ps syntax, perhaps a bogus '-'? See http://procps.sf.net/faq.html koha      1595  0.0  0.0  18192   488 ?        S    Mar28   0:00 daemon --name=koha-zebra-ctl.bibecp --errlog=/var/log/koha/koha-zebradaemon.err --stdout=/var/log/koha/koha-zebradaemon.log --output=/var/log/koha/koha-zebradaemon-output.l
09:58 samuel       yes, it seems, wait
09:58 magnuse      is zebra running?
09:56 magnuse      ah
09:56 samuel       a git
09:56 samuel       magnuse: no, it's agit install
09:56 samuel       viktor: don't worry and lunch is soon for me
09:56 magnuse      samuel: package install?
09:56 Viktor_away  sorry samuel - far above my ability and lunch is calling.
09:54 samuel       zebra give me headache. It doesn't work and i've seen this error "11:32:19-04/04 [fatal] lock file /var/lock/koha/zebradb/biblios/zebrasrv.pid [No such file or directory] ".
09:54 * rangi      goes to sleep
09:54 Viktor_away  hi samuel
09:53 samuel       hi everybody
09:51 Viktor       People just went for lunch here so I'll go AFK for a while.
09:49 Viktor       Thanks for all the help!"
09:49 Viktor       Getting it done is sort of a 2014 thing if the most vital stuff don't eat all the money. But I'm collecting all info I can meanwhile.
09:48 Viktor       Guess I'll come back to this question if I manage to talk nicely enough to our legal people.
09:48 Viktor       well it seems doable with the technical stuff so next step will be sorting out the legal hassle of accepting payments.
09:47 Viktor       I see.
09:47 rangi        because that is not an existing method
09:47 rangi        but koha will need to have changes made to do that, thats what i meant
09:46 Viktor       I sort of assumed there would be a bit of security hassle to get my head around when digging deeper.
09:46 rangi        they have
09:46 Viktor       I shure hope they have thought about that - I use those kinds of services quite a bit :)
09:45 rangi        or everyone will just send their own payment done messages
09:45 rangi        you'd ahve to generate a md5 hash or something that the service hands back
09:45 Viktor       :)
09:44 rangi        thats just asking to be pwned
09:44 rangi        receiving payment done would never be enough of course
09:43 Viktor       *me hoping no new things are required :)
09:43 rangi        but yes it would if you wanted to build some new thing
09:43 Viktor       Great!
09:43 rangi        Viktor: not if it used an existing method
09:42 rangi        looks after the printers, and scanners and photocopiers too
09:42 Viktor       Would it require any (extensive) Koha-plumbing to receive "payment done" and set a note in the database "payed online by"
09:42 wizzyrea     wicked
09:42 rangi        yeah the server that talks to koha via sip2 is on the same lan segment
09:41 wizzyrea     that the payment thinger was internal
09:41 Viktor       Something like http://tech.dibs.dk/integration_methods/dibs_payment_window/dibs_payment_window_introduction/ might be better.
09:41 wizzyrea     ohhh didn't realise that bit
09:41 Viktor       :) :)
09:41 rangi        you'd be mental to do SIP over the internet
09:40 rangi        (they are on their own LAN)
09:40 wizzyrea     in tunnels :)
09:40 magnuse      it's all done with pigeons
09:40 rangi        but yes
09:40 rangi        they dont travel the net
09:39 wizzyrea     rangi - you tunnel those SIP connections I presume
09:39 rangi        yep, they do at hlt already
09:39 Viktor       I'll have to look into that. It's not on the fast track list - but it would be great for people to be able to pay fines from home in a _secure_ way
09:38 rangi        but if the service cant handle talking sip, punching off to dps or any of the other processing places would be easy to do
09:38 Viktor       Yep :)
09:37 wizzyrea     i mean, ok by me anyway. others may have differing opinions
09:37 rangi        yep, you can do that now via SIP2
09:37 Viktor       Good :)
09:37 wizzyrea     that would be ok
09:37 Viktor       What I'm thinking of is adding the ability to move to a third party that handles the payment and then returns (approved payment / not approved)
09:37 wizzyrea     it's bad enough that we have to deal with fines and accounting. And that people feel inclined to put personal, really sensitive info in koha
09:36 rangi        use some other service for that, they can get hacked by russian mafia
09:36 rangi        id hate to see any kind of credit card processing stuff built into koha
09:35 Viktor       I'm with you on that.
09:35 rangi        yeah what she said
09:35 wizzyrea     i personally don't want koha handling money
09:35 wizzyrea     yea i'm not for that really.
09:35 Viktor       I'm thinking about adding it to the Opac in the long run.
09:34 Viktor       Didn't even know you could do that :)
09:34 rangi        they also do payment at the selfcheck machines the same way
09:33 wahanui      i guess interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
09:33 Viktor       Interesting!
09:33 rangi        not in koha but with koha yep, hlt do, via sip2
09:33 Viktor       Hi aquaman
09:32 Viktor       Oh and another thing - does anyone use online payment services in Koha?
09:31 Viktor       (back)
09:30 Viktor       (back in a sec)
09:29 Viktor       This has floated quite high up on my list of stuff to pay to get done so I'm very thankful for you guys giving a hint on how to solve it in a community approved way :)
09:29 rangi        when all you are transmitting is a small piece of json to and from the server, and the page isnt being reloaded, it will be a zillion times faster anyway
09:28 Viktor       Sounds like a plan!
09:28 rangi        basically if you build a restful circ client you can queue server side
09:27 Viktor       So we could call the relevant module multiple times behind the scenes without having to mod the .pl themselves? Sound great.
09:27 rangi        you may issue stuff you are not allowed to
09:27 rangi        and if you are queueing client side
09:26 rangi        you still cant finish the borrower until all the transactions are processed
09:25 Viktor       Well it's spring. A BBQ would improve everyones mood :)
09:25 rangi        best to make a light/fast interface so taht the js can do ajax calls
09:25 rangi        i think thats the wrong solution tho :)
09:25 Viktor       :)
09:25 rangi        yep
09:25 * wizzyrea   read barbecue instead of barcode
09:24 Viktor       To get rid of the bottleneck of waiting for the system to answer before being able to scan more barcodes.
09:24 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9844 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Add a barcode queue to checkout / return
09:24 magnuse      bug 9844
09:23 Viktor       Basically I'm trying to get find out how bug9844 might be done :)
09:23 rangi        thats just too risky
09:23 rangi        basically i dont want people touching the internals, ie modifying circulation.pl
09:23 Viktor       I'm listening but not familiar enough with the internal plumbing :)
09:22 rangi        you could have all manner of UI on top of it
09:22 * magnuse    is not overly familiar with the svc dir, but would love to dig around in it :-)
09:22 rangi        once you have that
09:22 rangi        thats what the svc dir is for
09:21 rangi        best to do it properly and build a restful circ interface, we have one for cataloguing, and reports already
09:21 wizzyrea     i haven't piddled about with it yet.
09:21 magnuse      (not sure what "restricted to tools" means, though...)
09:21 magnuse      i think plugins are restricted to reports and tools
09:20 rangi        that sounds like a hideous security nightmare if it could
09:20 rangi        dear god i hope not
09:20 wizzyrea     I guess the plugins system can't yet accept a new circ module type plugin... or can it?
09:19 Viktor       Not familiar with svc :( But I think magnuse is which is what matters :)
09:19 rangi        one that is designed to be light, and pass json
09:19 rangi        to go along with authentication, bib, new_bib, report, etc
09:18 wahanui      Hmm.  No matches for that, rangi.
09:18 rangi        you are better off adding a new svc in /svc/
09:18 rangi        they are designed to work with templats
09:18 rangi        modding them would be a bad idea
09:17 wizzyrea     returns has to deal with things like reserves too
09:17 Viktor       I guess it's mostly returns.pl and circulation.pl that would have to be modded.
09:16 Viktor       Yes we would have to light up multiple boxes of "stuff to handle" - would it be possible to do that without rewriting the code behind the scenes?
09:15 Viktor       hi magnuse :)
09:15 magnuse      and hi Viktor
09:15 magnuse      yeah, that would have to be taken care of
09:15 wizzyrea     or "this person would go over the fine limit... override?"
09:15 wizzyrea     such as "this item is on reserve for someone else... override?"
09:14 wizzyrea     check out that would probably be ok, as long as all in process overrides are honored.
09:13 Viktor       Still thinking about ensuring that no scanned barcodes are lost and adding a que function. Using Ajax to pick up the barcodes and handle them without reloading the page seems like a good idea.
09:12 Viktor       rangi
09:12 Viktor       rangr thanks
09:12 rangi        no
09:11 Viktor       Koha question: would using Ajax in circulation interfere with Plack?
09:11 wizzyrea     everything else works a treat, so I don't much worry about it :P
09:10 Viktor       LOL - yep. Had those types of problems when I built a machine running Ubuntu from parts (without checking available drivers first)
09:10 wizzyrea     (in ubuntu)
09:10 wizzyrea     my laptop webcam is *still* upside down, a year later.
09:09 Viktor       Yep :) It's much easier than patching together bits of information from forums all over the web (I'm looking at you weird Linux distros with driver issues ;)
09:08 wizzyrea     it's like teaching nurses - see one, do one, teach one.
09:07 Viktor       Always nice to get help from someone who knows.
09:06 Viktor       Usually I get logged in as Viktor but have to give the password
09:06 wizzyrea     yw, i had that exact problem earlier today :)
09:06 Viktor       Thanks wizzyrea!
09:06 wahanui      gimmie six!
09:06 wizzyrea     highfive!
09:06 Viktor       Yay!
09:06 wizzyrea     :)
09:05 wizzyrea     try /msg nickserv identify yourpassword viktor
09:05 viktorsarge_ irc-question: I can't get my regular nick (Viktor) to work. It's registered and usually my client (XChat Azure on OS X) handles it just fine. Using the /NICK command does nothing. Any ideas what's gone wrong?
08:36 cjh          wow, fresh 3.6 install
08:33 paul_p       hi rangi & magnuse & others
08:33 rangi        hi paul_p
08:32 magnuse      kia ora paul_p
08:29 rangi        i might get that on a tshirt
08:28 rangi        you are doing it wrong
08:28 rangi        IT depts
08:28 rangi        The Koha release team are proud to announce the release of 3.6.10. This is a maintenance and security release, and contains a lot of useful bug fixes, as well as fixing several serious security vulnerabilities. Everyone running an earlier version of Koha 3.6 is strongly encouraged to update to 3.6.10.
08:27 rangi        http://koha-community.org/koha-3-6-10-released/
08:27 magnuse      lol
08:26 rangi        if you need ammo to get them to upgrade
08:25 rangi        :-)
08:25 * rangi      goes to install windows 3.1
08:25 rangi        t
08:25 rangi        so they should have no issues fixing it i would have though
08:25 rangi        seriously, why on earth an IT dept would install an obsolete version is beyond me
08:24 mib_moabs6   thanks for your help
08:24 rangi        no
08:24 rangi        you definitely want later than that
08:24 mib_moabs6   it's going to be difficult to get a newer version installed, but i'll give it a try. if we're stuck with this version, is there any place else where i can look for an answer to this?
08:24 rangi        yep there were security fixes around 3.6.7
08:23 magnuse      or if the it dept insists on 3.6.x, make them install the latest version of it, which is 3.6.11, i think :-)
08:22 rangi        whatever bug thats causing your issue will have been fixed sometime in the 19 months since 3.6.1 was released :)
08:22 rangi        and also, find out why they picked that .. maybe its linked somewhere and if so we should remove that link :)
08:21 rangi        id suggest installing a recent version
08:21 rangi        but there are unlikely to ever be anymore 3.6.x releases
08:20 rangi        or in the oldstable branch 3.8.11
08:20 rangi        the latest stable release is 3.10.4
08:20 rangi        its a really old version
08:20 rangi        well thats bizarre
08:20 rangi        it was released november 29 2011
08:20 mib_moabs6   it dept did it, not me
08:19 rangi        why did you choose 3.6.1 ?
08:19 rangi        hmmm
08:19 mib_moabs6   just installed it
08:18 rangi        hmm thats a pretty old version, has it just started not working? or did you just install it?
08:18 mib_moabs6   3.06.01.000
08:17 rangi        mib_moabs6: what version of koha?
08:15 mib_moabs6   I'm trying to add items to the catalog, but on the last step, when I click "add item", I get the following message: Can't call method "textContent" on an undefined value at /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1/MARC/File/XML.pm line 456. Can anyone help?
08:13 alohabot     Hi mib_moabs6, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
08:06 rangi        i better unban mibbit before i get tempted to forget to unban it
08:05 rangi        it worked
08:05 rangi        mode/#koha [+b *!*@ircip2.mibbit.com] by kf_mtg
08:04 kf_mtg       sorry, have to go! bbl
08:04 kf_mtg       still the error
08:04 kf_mtg       nope
08:04 rangi        /mode #koha +b *!*@ircip2.mibbit.com
08:04 kf           sorry, have to run!
08:03 rangi        do this
08:03 rangi        that sounds like your client
08:03 kf           maybe it's my irc client not supporting it?
08:03 kf           Dieses Kommando funktioniert nicht in diesem Protokoll.
08:03 mib_z7pozk   hmmm
08:02 alohabot     Hi mib_z7pozk, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
08:02 kf           we just leave it as is I guess :)
08:01 kf           so...
08:01 kf           but he already has them
08:01 * kf         volunteers magnuse for europe ops
08:01 kf           so guess I am out
08:01 rangi        and get ops
08:01 rangi        or someone will pretend to be you
08:01 kf           ok
08:01 rangi        you cant without a registered nick
08:01 rangi        no
08:00 kf           so when the ops don't come automatically, you woudl have to do it manually all the time or can I do something to activate?
08:00 kf           give me another mibbit user? :)
07:59 kf           yep
07:59 rangi        you saw it work for me eh?
07:59 kf           got an error message
07:59 kf           I did that
07:59 kf           maybe we shoudl better volunteer magnuse :P
07:59 rangi        /ban nickname
07:58 kf           it says me this does not work with this protocol
07:58 kf           hm I tried to ban
07:58 kf           h
07:58 rangi        but then they just come back
07:57 alohabot     Hi mib_z7pozk, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
07:57 rangi        to kick
07:57 rangi        like that
07:57 alohabot     Hi mib_z7pozk, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
07:56 rangi        cos else they will just come back
07:56 rangi        but first you want to do /ban
07:56 kf           but there are no bad persons around
07:56 rangi        type /kick nickname
07:55 kf           so what would I need to do to kick someone?
07:55 kf           hm?
07:54 rangi        you just wont get it automagically
07:54 rangi        i can stll do it
07:52 huginn       kf: The operation succeeded.
07:52 kf           @later tell jcamins ops are not working because my nick is too short.
07:51 kf           and cait seems taken
07:51 kf           yes
07:51 magnuse      too short?
07:50 kf           says the nickserv thing
07:50 kf           my nick is invalid
07:50 cait         magnuse: hmpf
07:49 magnuse      ooh, worlds collide...
07:48 * kf         nick cait
07:47 magnuse      hm, is there a way to renew *all* overdue loans? not just for one patron, but for all of them, in one fell swoop?
07:45 * magnuse    admires the bravery of kf
07:45 * kf         is not scared of rangi
07:44 marcelr      hi kf
07:44 magnuse      kf: better hide, rangi is looking for you!
07:44 kf           hello :)
07:43 magnuse      kia ora kf
07:40 magnuse      deafening silence...
07:38 rangi        guess not
07:33 rangi        anyone else want to be added to the chanserv while im at it?
07:33 magnuse      yay :-)
07:33 rangi        yep
07:32 magnuse      both of her? :-)
07:32 rangi        cait/kf needs to register with nickserv and I can add her too
07:32 bag          yeah clean those logs
07:31 magnuse      !
07:31 magnuse      or rather: moahahaha
07:31 magnuse      woot!
07:30 rangi        (kick ban etc)
07:30 rangi        you are added now
07:28 wahanui      it has been said that that is a good idea.
07:28 magnuse      that?
07:28 rangi        we need to get a few more who can do that
07:28 rangi        ahh right
07:28 magnuse      yeah, i think i was at one point, but then forgot how to "log in" again or something
07:27 rangi        ah you registered with chanserv magnuse?
07:27 magnuse      yay
07:27 rangi        all ill delete that from the log
07:26 magnuse      rangi: rudeness personified http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/2013-04-03#i_1220872
07:24 gaetan_B     hello
07:23 matts        hello !
07:17 bag          hey matts
07:17 bag          :)
07:16 rangi        hm who was being rude i wonder?
07:16 rangi        used to only work with postgres :)
07:13 bag          looking at Kumara
07:12 rangi        http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=kumara.git;a=blob;f=C4/Database.pm;h=f93c6770b580ec94e67bfb1fe555970e4181bc40;hb=2918fc16837e700e47fd563d7537630d14373d2b
07:12 rangi        hehe
07:12 christophe_c bonjour magnuse ;-)
07:06 asaurat      hi!
07:06 magnuse      bonjour christophe_c and asaurat
07:00 christophe_c hello
06:53 reiveune     bonjour magnuse marcelr and everybody :)
06:52 magnuse      bonjour alex_a_ and reiveune
06:51 marcelr      hi magnuse alex_a reiveune
06:41 reiveune     hello
06:40 alex_a_      hello #koha
06:39 magnuse      hiya marcelr
06:31 marcelr      hi #koha
06:26 dcook        Au revoir, everyone
06:26 dcook        Time to call it quits for today
06:11 bag          hey cait
06:11 * cait       waves to bag
06:07 * magnuse    needs breakfast
06:07 magnuse      it's the most common one, and the one most likely to be chased by gulls
06:07 bag          :)
06:07 magnuse      bag: probably White-tailed Eagle, Haliaeetus albicilla
06:02 bag          and that's really cool magnuse
06:02 bag          what kind of eagle?
06:01 dcook        Party time!
06:01 * dcook      waves again to bag
05:58 * magnuse    looks out the window and sees an eagle being chased by two seagulls
05:57 * magnuse    waves to dcook and bag
05:53 * bag        waves
05:52 dcook        ^_^
05:52 * dcook      waves to magnuse
05:51 cait         lol
05:50 magnuse      ooh, it's a wave party!
05:50 * cait       waves back
05:50 * magnuse    waves
05:50 * dcook      waves to cait
05:50 dcook        jcamins++
05:02 huginn       jcamins: The operation succeeded.
05:02 jcamins      @later tell rangi Oh, I forgot to ask you, but could you please give cait/kf ops so she can kick people who come on #koha and insist on being vulgar?
04:58 jcamins      Good night, #koha.
04:57 jcamins      Okay, I got my data loaded for tomorrow, so I'm going to bed.
04:57 bamalik      thanks, it is an advance topic and perhaps u have no idea of VUC, ok
04:55 jcamins      I just told you how to do what you asked about.
04:54 bamalik      jcamins: ok, i am an intensive user of koha and understand the administration well, do you have idea of virtual union catalogue please.
04:50 jcamins      (look in Administration under "Libraries")
04:49 jcamins      You can just add two branches.
04:49 jcamins      I don't understand what the question is.
04:49 bamalik      jcamins: my question is simple: i want to create a union catalogue of two libraries (each lib have opac in koha) in two different cities, ok
04:47 jcamins      Do you have a specific question?
04:46 bamalik      jcamins: no, i want some help and info
04:44 jcamins      You could do that.
04:43 bamalik      a union catalogue using koha and z39.50 protocol, ok
04:42 jcamins      bamalik: what do you mean?
04:42 bamalik      thanks wahanui
04:41 bamalik      have you any idea of virtual union catalogue?
04:40 wahanui      bidet, bamalik
04:40 bamalik      hi
04:39 jcamins      If I set the encoding to UTF-8 in vim, it automagically starts working.
04:38 jcamins      Actually, maybe Access didn't mangle the UTF-8 as bad as one might expect.
04:36 jcamins      So, other than the mangled UTF-8, I think the data is actually mostly in there where it belongs.
04:32 eythian      imagine that!
04:32 jcamins      Thanks, Access!
04:32 jcamins      Access mangled my UTF-8.
04:32 jcamins      Oh, look.
04:31 jcamins      Actually, it turns out I had ~150 records that were broken by that.
04:30 eythian      so it's often not the quote, but that plus something else causes the heuristic to fall over.
04:29 eythian      It also makes it more likely to get confused by a badly placed comma further down the row.
04:29 jcamins      This time it does not.
04:29 eythian      that might work. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.
04:28 jcamins      One of my titles starts with a quotation mark.
04:28 eythian      what'd you do?
04:27 jcamins      Uh-oh.
04:21 alohabot     Hi mib_pdizlw, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
04:19 alohabot     Hi mib_iehlz1, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
04:13 eythian      some islands have had predators removed and kiwi are there too
04:13 eythian      bag: yeah, they're rare but are around in the wild
04:10 bag          are there any kiwis in the wild anymore ?
04:10 bag          yeah that's what I hear
04:10 eythian      they're easy enough to find in alpine areas
04:10 eythian      yeah
04:10 bag          eythian: I'd like to see a kea (those big parrots that eat rubber and destroy cars)  (do I have the right name?)
04:09 alohabot     Hi mib_oabxzt, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
04:09 bag          HA
04:08 eythian      http://i.imgur.com/uFlLMAG.jpg <-- that's a moa
04:05 dcook        I guess we're pretty chatty :p
04:01 bag          deal
04:01 dcook        I'm tempted but I'm not, lol
04:00 bag          heh
04:00 bag          ahhh..  let's trade :P
04:00 * dcook      twitches at the mention of the latter
04:00 dcook        What am I working on...serials and WCAG compliance for DSpace...
03:59 dcook        Staff error?
03:59 dcook        Transfer issues?
03:59 dcook        I can relate to the feeling chatty :p
03:58 bag          they usually always end in staff error :(
03:58 bag          just feeling a little chatty for a moment before I dig into transfer issues
03:58 bag          same here
03:58 dcook        hey bag. It goes. How're you?
03:57 bag          hey dcook - how goes it
03:44 quocuy       bb all
03:44 quocuy       today, maybe we'll see facebook phone :), i love this
03:44 quocuy       time for me to go, too.
03:43 dcook        later rangi
03:43 dcook        hehe
03:43 quocuy       :)
03:43 wizzyrea     farewell :)
03:43 rangi        and with that useful contribution, im going home
03:43 jcamins      lol
03:43 wizzyrea     *giggle*
03:42 rangi        stop smoking it then!!
03:42 jcamins      My database is full of HASH(0x...)
03:42 jcamins      that was unexpected.
03:42 jcamins      Well...
03:24 quocuy       ok, got it!
03:23 jcamins      Yes. Much better. :)
03:23 quocuy       i love to play around with color, css, html :)
03:23 quocuy       so better i'll make a guide
03:23 quocuy       and more, it's only some html and css code, which i added into system pref>Opac>
03:22 wizzyrea     thank you :)
03:22 wizzyrea     and not canonical as in ubuntu... I mean it as authorized; recognized; accepted
03:21 quocuy       Ok, i won't bring it to Koha DVD
03:21 wizzyrea     that the RM looks after.
03:21 quocuy       make a dvd to update,
03:21 wizzyrea     right, I would probably be opposed to distributing as canonical a dvd with anything that isn't in the code base
03:20 jcamins      So any cool things that should go on should go into Koha proper.
03:20 jcamins      Any customizations on the live dvd are bad.
03:20 quocuy       ah, yes, understand
03:20 quocuy       what do u mean "stock"? :)
03:19 wizzyrea     it should be in stock
03:19 wizzyrea     ^ what he said
03:18 quocuy       yes, live DVD in ubuntu 12.04
03:18 rangi        it should be stock koha, so that people can upgrade safely, probably based on the packages
03:18 jcamins      Okay, fixed it in vim.
03:18 wizzyrea     i like it, it is neat, you are welcome to submit patches to have that included
03:18 quocuy       ok :), i'm asking
03:18 rangi        yeah
03:18 wizzyrea     yea, I don't think that should go in the "canonical" live DVD
03:18 jcamins      Yes, I don't think that's a good idea.
03:18 quocuy       just create 2 website with 1 installation
03:17 jcamins      I don't think that's such a good idea.
03:17 quocuy       i'll make 2 website, 1 default, 1 custom, 1 guide to help them to do that, if they want
03:16 jcamins      Why would you put a customized OPAC on the live DVD?
03:16 quocuy       check in http://library1.dreamlib.vn and give me  you comments :)
03:16 quocuy       hey all, i've changed Koha-Opac, should i put it in to Live DVD
03:15 quocuy       :),
03:14 eythian      used in an odd way there, basically the same as saying "sure is"
03:14 quocuy       no, i mean have a nice day everyone :)
03:14 eythian      quocuy: it's a slangish contraction of "bet you"
03:13 wahanui      okay, eythian.
03:13 eythian      wahanui: nice day is also <reply>I'm going to go play outside
03:13 quocuy       what does it mean?
03:13 quocuy       betcha?
03:13 wahanui      eythian: nice day =is= <reply> you betcha $who
03:13 eythian      wahanui: literal nice day
03:12 wahanui      you betcha quocuy
03:12 quocuy       nice day!
03:12 quocuy       hi all
03:09 eythian      )
03:09 eythian      (which is when I had something where every line ended in ""
03:09 eythian      perl -p -i -e 's/(?<!"")\r\n/\a/g' library_conv.csv
03:09 eythian      then adapt this:
03:09 jcamins      Oh, wait, every line ends with 0 or 1.
03:07 eythian      so fix a lot of commas and a handful of special cases.
03:06 eythian      ^-- I often do that sort of thing, just to make it parse properly
03:06 pastebot     "eythian" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "example of CSV file pre-cleaning" (7 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/455
03:06 eythian      that it gets really upset
03:06 eythian      it's only when a line ends with something like blahblah"\n"next quote...
03:05 * jcamins    did not know that.
03:05 eythian      yeah
03:05 jcamins      It can?
03:05 eythian      csvtomarc can handle newlines in fields just fine
03:05 eythian      I actually usually replace the ',', it's that that tends to mess things up.
03:04 jcamins      One thing... how do I replace the newslines if all I have is a CSV?
03:03 eythian      it makes it a lot more relaxed about its CSV parsing
03:03 eythian      I also find specifying -l often helps.
03:03 jcamins      Well look at that.
03:03 eythian      I need to make it command-line configurable at some stage
03:02 eythian      it's in the clean_string function
03:02 jcamins      Ooh, nice!
03:02 eythian      so you can craft a search-replace over your data to convert troublesome characters into that, then they'll pass the CSV parsing and later get converted back
03:01 eythian      and \f to ,
03:01 eythian      a \a will get converted to \n
03:01 eythian      it's undocumented because lazy
03:01 jcamins      Or perldoc, rather?
03:01 jcamins      Did I miss it in the man page?
03:01 jcamins      eythian: you do?
03:01 eythian      cos I have a trick for that
03:00 eythian      jcamins: are you using csvtomarc?
03:00 jcamins      ms_access--
03:00 jcamins      Oh, nice. There are literal newlines in this data.
03:00 jcamins      o.O
02:58 * wizzyrea   blinks
02:57 eythian      In related news, Time::Piece->strptime(%Y%m%d) will turn 20073101 into 2007-03-10 rather than fail. I'm not sure I agree with its position there.
02:57 eythian      I had a date: 19881603 ... that's possibly worse
02:56 jcamins      ^^ that is idiotic
02:56 jcamins      10/11/2010 0:00:00
02:55 jcamins      I will show you.
02:55 jcamins      You know what is idiotic?
02:46 bag          evening
02:45 quocuy       Hello #koha
02:43 alohabot     Hi mib_198sil, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
02:41 jcamins      Thanks.
02:35 mtj          done
02:34 jcamins      Stick a link on the bug so I can find it next time I'm pushing?
02:33 jcamins      Looks good, thanks.
02:32 mtj          jcamins, how bout that? -> https://github.com/KohaAloha/Koha-Dev/tree/bug_9172
01:53 mtj          hmm, ok - ill give it a go...
01:52 jcamins      Cool.
01:52 eythian      or just git commit --amend -s if there's only one patch
01:52 mtj          1st result from google on 'git sign off on a branch' :)
01:51 mtj          oooh -> http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Sign_off_on_a_pushed_branch
01:50 jcamins      I generally use interactive rebase.
01:50 jcamins      mtj: interactive rebase or filter-branch.
01:49 mtj          jcamins, hmm - how do i sign off on a branch?
01:48 huginn       04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9172 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Passed QA , Move TinyMCE library outside of language-specific directory
01:48 jcamins      mtj: on bug 9172, it'd be better if you could sign off on a branch and make that available for merging.
01:45 wizzyrea     the funk soul brother is <reply> check it out now
01:45 wahanui      OK, eythian.
01:45 eythian      wahanui: about now is <reply>the funk soul brother
01:43 mtj          jcamins, about now
00:22 jcamins      Not for Koha.
00:22 Guest1079    there is an unlogged channel?!
00:22 jcamins      [off] I was concerned for a bit that I was venting about a passive-aggressive individual I had to work with on this channel rather than the unlogged channel.
00:21 dcook        [off] Hehe. I certainly wasn't meaning you :P
00:20 jcamins      mtj: around?
00:19 jcamins      [off] Agreed, but I wasn't complaining on this channel, was I?
00:19 dcook        [off] passive aggressive people...grrr
00:08 dcook        :D
00:03 rangi        nice!
00:03 jcamins      And it even appears to return valid UTF-8!!!
00:03 jcamins      It does work.
00:03 jcamins      Yes.
00:02 rangi        heh
00:02 * jcamins    will try.
00:02 jcamins      They don't really make it clear.
00:01 jcamins      Maybe.
00:01 jcamins      Wait.
00:01 jcamins      Wow, yeah.
00:00 jcamins      Right now I'm trying to confirm.
00:00 jcamins      Someone said that on a comment to Galen's blog post.