IRC log for #koha, 2012-07-24

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:11 melia left #koha
01:34 Irma joined #koha
01:51 jenkins_koha Starting build #101 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
02:37 dcook joined #koha
02:54 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #101: SUCCESS in 1 hr 3 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.8.x/101/
02:54 jenkins_koha mtompset: Bug 8458 - $stemmed_operand in C4::Search _build_stemmed_operand is not initialized. Added =q{} to initialize it to the empty string at declaration time.
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03:26 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
03:26 rangi hi mtompset
03:27 mtompset I have a question and perhaps you can give feedback, rangi.
03:27 mtompset Under Ubuntu, do we want to recommend using the koha-common packages?
03:27 mtompset (from Debian)
03:27 rangi from you mean?
03:28 rangi (they aren't in debian proper)
03:28 mtompset yes.
03:28 rangi there's one patch that needs to be pushed, and then yes
03:28 rangi mysql in precise is a bit mental
03:28 mtompset Yes, the whole 'user'@'%' mess?
03:29 rangi the packages worked fine up until precise
03:29 rangi yep
03:29 rangi[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8162
03:29 rangi its passed QA
03:29 rangi hmm no hmm needs signoff
03:30 rangi but once that is in, it will work with precise again
03:31 mtompset But the @'%' was never suggested on[…]ki/Koha_on_Ubuntu
03:32 mtompset Should it have been?
03:32 mtompset (never = since I first saw it up until now)
03:34 rangi doesnt really matter for the instructions
03:35 mtompset Okay, seeing as I'm looking at the Ubuntu Instructions to make sure they are up to date.
03:35 rangi probably best to make one for localhost explicitly assuming that people who want to run the db on another server know enough to figure that out themselves
03:37 * mtompset nods.
03:38 mtompset also, what is the most current repository for Is it squeeze?
03:38 rangi squeeze is current stable
03:38 rangi so 3.8.x
03:38 rangi squeeze-dev is master
03:38 mtompset which one is 3.6.x?
03:38 rangi oldstable
03:40 mtompset So, when 3.10 comes out... oldstable = 3.8.x, and debian-codename = current stable = 3.10, debian-codename-dev = master (= 3.11)?
03:41 rangi yep
03:42 mtompset does the 3.6.x repository stay around somewhere?
03:42 rangi nope
03:43 mtompset Ah, okay. So, basically, a git install is really only available for old stable, current stable, and master?
03:45 rangi oh the git repository?
03:45 rangi yeah that stays around for ever
03:45 rangi i thought you meant the package repository
03:45 mtompset I was mixing terms.
03:45 mtompset Thanks for clarifying.
03:46 mtompset The tar.gz's stay around forever. A git downlaod is available as well.
03:46 rangi yep
03:47 mtompset However, in terms of a repository, (apt-get stuff), only old stable, current stable, and master exist.
03:48 rangi yep
03:49 rangi and unless someone setps up to maintain oldoldstable, you should try to be at least on oldstable
03:52 * mtompset nods.
03:53 muzu joined #koha
03:53 muzu hi
03:53 wahanui bonjour, muzu
03:53 mtompset Thanks for the input. I'll be looking at[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8478 and helping tcohen clean up documentation for Ubuntu, and getting master patched with what I did for 3.6.7
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04:18 mtompset Greetings, cait
04:18 mtompset Greetings, muzu.
04:19 cait hi mtompset
04:19 mtompset Next question. I know that LAMP includes PHP, which is not required for Koha, but would that not be the easiest option to suggest when installing Ubuntu?
04:20 rangi not really no
04:20 rangi well it is easy
04:20 rangi but it has the downside of now you have php
04:20 dcook_away Not a fan of php, rangi? :P
04:20 rangi not at all :) but thats not why its a problem for this
04:21 mtompset I suspect it isn't a matter of fan or not, but a matter of not installing what you don't need.
04:21 rangi the problem here is, now your apache threads start up with php
04:21 rangi drastically reducing how many concurrent threads you can have
04:21 rangi specially if you are mtompset and have 24meg of ram :-)
04:21 mtompset 204MB.
04:22 * rangi exaggerates for effect
04:22 mtompset free.
04:22 muzu hi mtompset
04:22 mtompset We've bumped up to 1GB total.
04:22 rangi yeah thats about 4 threads with php
04:22 rangi i think it runs in around 64MB a thread
04:22 muzu I am getting error while restoring db of 3.2 in 3.6
04:22 mtompset Actually, that is probably right.
04:23 rangi dcook_away:
04:23 mtompset Roughly 300MB used with myql and apache.
04:24 mtompset But you would agree that the server version is preferred over the desktop version, rangi?
04:24 rangi definitely for the same reason, you dont want X and gdm etc all running
04:31 rangi muzu: what is the error?
04:32 muzu [Thu Dec 15 13:59:43 2011] DBD::mysql::db do failed: Duplicate column name 'privacy' at /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/ins​taller/data/mysql/ line 3997.
04:33 rangi ahh you can safely ignore that, it should continue on and do the rest
04:35 muzu even i have ignored,but gives error while checkin and checkout.
04:35 dcook_away rangi: interestingly enough, this is the third time in four days that people have commented to me about PHP's structure
04:35 rangi whats the error at checkin and checkout muzu ?
04:37 muzu Use of uninitialized value $biblioitem_subfield in string at /home/koha/kohaclone/C4/ line 3216. Tag "" is not a valid tag. at /home/koha/kohaclone/C4/ line 3216"
04:38 rangi when you upgraded you ran the upgrade script eh?
04:38 rangi misc/maintenance/ --run
04:38 rangi that one?
04:40 muzu i havent execute any script.
04:41 rangi how did you upgrade?
04:41 rangi you just loaded in a 3.2 db into a 3.6.7 install?
04:42 rangi you definitely want to run that script
04:42 rangi and do a full zebra reindex
04:42 rangi from the INSTALL file
04:42 rangi oha 3.4.x or later  no longer stores items in biblio records.
04:42 rangi If you are upgrading from an older version ou will need to do the
04:42 rangi following two steps, they can take a long time (several hours) to
04:42 rangi complete for large databases
04:42 rangi
04:42 muzu i have taken the back up of 3.2 . i have newly istalled 3.6 and restored 3.2 db
04:42 rangi misc/maintenance/ --run
04:43 rangi misc/migration_tools/ -b -r
04:43 rangi right, after you have done the web installer, you need to run that script
04:43 muzu ok
04:43 muzu may i know what is the exact command to execute that script.
04:43 rangi it may not fix this checkin checkout problem, but not running it will create all sorts of other ones
04:44 muzu ok
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05:30 dcook_away Does anyone know if the "Set library management parameters" permission actually do anything?
05:31 dcook_away Or to which lib management parameters the permission refers?
05:32 cait hm
05:32 cait I think administration area - but I am not sure right now
05:32 dcook_away I think that's the "Set Koha system parameters" permission
05:39 dcook_away It looks like the only thing it does is allow the user to change their library in the intranet...
05:40 cait hm that makes sense too i guess
05:40 dcook_away Now that I look at the name of the permission, I guess so, lol
05:47 mtompset If a user who is setting up Koha has the squeeze packages, would there be any reason for them to use CPAN?
05:49 cait hm I think the packages have all perl dependencies
05:49 cait so I guess not
05:49 cait using CPAN is not recommended
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05:51 Sneha joined #koha
05:52 Sneha hi every one
05:52 Sneha any body send me Koha import file format?
05:52 Sneha please
05:53 mtompset I know CPAN is not recommended. :)
05:54 Sneha ??
05:54 Sneha no body are there?
05:55 mtompset I believe the Koha Import format depends on what you set your Koha up as, right cait? MARC21 or UNIMARC.
05:55 mtompset I have no such files that I am allowed to share.
05:55 mtompset marc21?
05:55 wahanui hmmm... marc21 is at[…]hic/ecbdlist.html ,
05:56 mtompset unimarc?
05:56 wahanui unimarc is[…]ted-documentation
05:56 mtompset That is the best I can help, sorry.
05:56 cait mtompset: yes, you will have to import in the format koha is set up in
05:56 cait there is a patch to allow "crosswalking" formats for z39.50 - but sadly it's stuck at the moment
05:57 * mtompset goes back to working on documentation for Ubuntu installs.
05:59 Sneha i have import the book but not working properly
05:59 Sneha can u send me details with my mail id ?
05:59 Sneha
06:02 cait sorry Sneha
06:02 cait we cantry helping you here
06:02 alex_a bonjour \o
06:02 cait or youcan ask your quesitons on the mailing list
06:02 cait but mailing you details apart from that is asking a bit too much
06:02 cait documentation?
06:02 wahanui documentation is at
06:03 Sneha i have this
06:03 Sneha but not understand
06:03 mtompset which part don't you understand?
06:05 * mtompset thinks Sneha may work with two people he interacted with over the weekend. *sigh*
06:05 mtompset Are you just trying to do data entry, Sneha?
06:05 mtompset I mean catalogueing?
06:05 Sneha yes
06:06 Sneha no i useing import the book but not
06:06 Sneha i have no format of this
06:06 Sneha so i got confused
06:07 mtompset cait, I'm not familiar with how to enter an item in Koha. Where's the docs for that?
06:07 cait it depends on how you are doing it
06:07 cait maybe z39.50 import?
06:07 cait I would recommend reading the cataloguing chapter
06:07 mtompset Probably not.
06:08 mtompset Let me guess, Sneha... you have 3.06.05 of Koha, right?
06:08 Sneha yes
06:08 cait http://manual.koha-community.o[…]ging.html#catbibs
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06:09 mtompset As per cait's suggestion. Read the cataloging chapter.
06:09 mtompset http://manual.koha-community.o[…]n/cataloging.html
06:10 mtompset I think there is also confusion, cait, for non-library types. What's a bibliographic record vs. an item record vs. an authorities...
06:10 wahanui okay, mtompset.
06:10 mtompset think?
06:10 mtompset there?
06:10 wahanui there is no spoon. or something like the second with holes like the first... or a patch from jared soemwhere removing some of the nozebra code or confusion, cait, for non-library types. What's a bibliographic record vs. an item record vs. an authorities...
06:10 Sneha yes
06:10 mtompset wahanui, forget there
06:10 wahanui mtompset: I forgot there
06:10 Sneha i have xml file
06:11 cait I really think documentation is the best place to start here
06:11 Sneha then i do import
06:11 Sneha i need just format
06:11 cait is your file marcxml?
06:11 Sneha file format
06:11 cait what kind of xml?
06:11 mtompset marcxml?
06:11 wahanui marcxml is a representation of the usmarc in xml
06:11 cait you want MARC21
06:11 cait the spec is here
06:11 cait
06:11 mtompset marc21?
06:11 wahanui well, marc21 is at[…]hic/ecbdlist.html ,
06:12 Sneha Onlt .XML
06:12 Sneha Only .XML
06:13 cait yes, xml is a format, but it depends how your data is structured within the xml
06:14 Sneha can in send u file format ?
06:14 mtompset irc logs?
06:14 wahanui irc logs are
06:14 Sneha can i send u file format ?
06:17 Sneha ??
06:19 mtompset Sneha, please... go read the documentation. I think you will discover that what you are trying to do is more complex that we can describe on the channel here.
06:19 mtompset http://manual.koha-community.o[…]n/cataloging.html
06:19 mtompset items is library-speak for books.
06:20 * mtompset is surprised how much more enjoyable documentation writing is becoming.
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06:38 reiveune hello
06:41 reiveune joined #koha
06:41 reiveune re
06:44 mtompset Greetings, reiveune.
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07:00 francharb hello
07:00 mtompset Greetings, francharb
07:00 mtompset Greetings, matts
07:00 matts hi !
07:00 mtompset Greetings, laurence
07:01 mtompset I'm working on documentation. What fun are you having today? :)
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07:11 laurence hello mtompset
07:11 * mtompset grins.
07:11 mtompset Salut? (is that valid French?)
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07:16 mtompset Ah, it must be morning in France. :)
07:16 julian_m hello
07:16 wahanui privet, julian_m
07:16 julian_m yes mtompset :)
07:16 mtompset Greetings, asaurat. Greetings, julian_m.
07:17 mtompset Well, I hope you all have productive days. I'm not sure how productive my writing documentation is.
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07:21 rangi evening
07:22 mtompset Evening, rangi
07:33 magnuse morning #koha
07:34 dcook_away morning/evening everyone
07:36 mtompset Greetings, dcook
07:44 dcook Hey mtompset. Having a rough time of it?
07:44 mtompset Almost through the INSTALL.ubuntu file.
07:44 mtompset Editing is such a pain!
07:45 rangi try editing statutory declarations
07:46 mtompset Good thing I'm running through this. There are sections that say things without explaining them.
07:46 * rangi finished what is hopefully the last one i ever have to do today
07:46 mtompset $ zebraidx -c <prefix>/etc/zebradb/zebra-biblios.cfg -g iso2709 -d biblios init
07:47 mtompset There should be some sort of comment explaining what <prefix> is.
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08:03 rangi heya eythian
08:03 wahanui somebody said eythian was in NZ. ;) or a good influence
08:03 eythian g'day
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08:11 mtompset AT LAST! DONE! -- Bad news... I have to test it.
08:12 paul_p good morning #koha
08:13 mtompset Good day to you as well, paul_p. :)
08:18 dcook Bon matin, paul_p
08:19 dcook and congrats, mtompset. Sorry that there's the testing now :p
08:19 mtompset At least it should go well enough, if I've written the instructions well enough.
08:20 kf joined #koha
08:20 dcook Let's hope so :)
08:20 * mtompset switches off thinking and turns on "follow the words on the page only".
08:23 mtompset Hopefully, the test will be done in 2 hours.
08:23 kf hi #koha
08:23 dcook hi kf
08:23 mtompset Greetings, kf.
08:24 magnuse guten tag kf
08:24 kf :)
08:26 eythian hello kf
08:35 dcook joined #koha
08:36 * dcook pokes rangi
08:37 eythian to see if he's done?
08:37 rangi heh
08:37 dcook How else will I know? :p
08:38 mtompset finger, meat thermometer, or trident? ;)
08:38 dcook USB?
08:38 dcook I'm hoping to download his Koha knowledge
08:39 * mtompset grins.
08:39 mtompset Low memory... Netbook grunting badly.
08:39 * mtompset decides to go to shut down.
08:39 * mtompset waves.
08:39 dcook 'night
08:41 kf morning eythian :)
08:51 jenkins_koha Starting build #102 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
08:51 * dcook calls it a night as well
08:51 rangi cya dcook
08:53 muzu joined #koha
08:59 * eythian publishes the correct version of 3.8.3 packages...
09:09 kf yay :)
09:15 magnuse eythian++
09:30 mtompset joined #koha
09:31 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
09:54 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #102: SUCCESS in 1 hr 4 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.8.x/102/
09:54 jenkins_koha nengard: Bug 8453: Add spaces to inventory options
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10:10 eythian > ALTER TABLE old_issues CHANGE date_due date_due datetime
10:10 asaurat joined #koha
10:11 eythian this takes a very long time to run on a 3.6->3.8 upgrade
10:11 rangi yup
10:11 eythian to the point of "gateway timeout"
10:14 eythian oh no, then it does: ALTER TABLE old_issues CHANGE returndate returndate datetime
10:14 eythian I wonder if it'd be faster if they were one statement
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10:16 rangi probably, would only have to create the temporary table once
10:16 mtompset There would be no gateway timeout, if there was STDOUT dumped back to the browser.
10:17 mtompset Progress bars are nice things.
10:17 mtompset pain to implement well, but nice.
10:17 eythian Sounds like you're volunteering to ajaxify the upgrade process :)
10:17 mtompset Hey, I wouldn't go that far. :P
10:17 mtompset I'm sticking to things I can do right now, like documentation.
10:19 mtompset I'm doing a test run of my improvements to INSTALL.ubuntu for precise.
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10:22 mtompset I've almost finished an Ubuntu 12.04 server install with NO selections.
10:23 mtompset Then I'll be doing something that will make jcamins very happy, I'll be using's repos.
10:24 eythian yeah, it has the extra modules in it
10:25 mtompset since I will be installing 3.8.3, it will likely be necessary.
10:25 mtompset And it is part of the isntructions.
10:25 mtompset instructions, even.
10:25 mtompset Though, I did note it wasn't necessary for 3.6.7 ;)
10:26 eythian oh no, then it does the same thing again for another column.
10:26 eythian yeah, dependencies change over time
10:37 * mtompset is off to test his auto-join command.
10:38 mtompset joined #koha
10:38 mtompset Greetings, #koha. Test is a success. YAY! Now if only this install would finish. :)
10:39 kf_lunch biblibre++ for fixing bugs .)
10:39 eythian oh wow, a 4th alter table :/
10:40 eythian that _really_ should have been made one statement
10:40 * eythian goes to lunch while that runs
10:40 kf_lunch what are you looking at?
10:41 laurence joined #koha
10:58 mtompset I think some update tables as part of an upgrade process.
11:18 eythian kf_lunch: it does 4 or so ALTER TABLE operations on old_issues when you go 3.6->3.8
11:19 jcamins Yeah, I noticed how painful it was.
11:19 eythian They take a very long time as it requires a table copy. My theory is that if they were done in one statement, it would only have one copy, not several
11:22 mtompset Greetings, jcamins.
11:22 mtompset I'm about to issue commands I don't like. :P
11:23 mtompset echo "deb squeeze main" > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/koha-community.list
11:24 jcamins Good idea.
11:25 mtompset I'm doing this for testing purposes.
11:25 mtompset Hmm... this next command didn't wiork.
11:25 mtompset wget -O- | apt-key add -
11:26 jcamins | sudo apt-key add -
11:26 jcamins eythian: did someone tell you that the 3.8.3 package had 3.8.2 in it?
11:26 eythian jcamins: that's why there's a package out
11:26 mtompset Oops... typo. Good thing the instructions are right.
11:26 jcamins eythian: I guess that'd be a yess. :)
11:26 jcamins *yes
11:26 eythian yep :)
11:28 mtompset I was running as root, so no need for sudo.
11:29 mtompset I typed apt-get instead of apt-key.
11:29 jwagner joined #koha
11:33 davidnind Good practice for linux server administration is to use sudo with a designated user account, rather than root (so I have been told)
11:33 mtompset echo "deb squeeze main" > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/koha-community.list
11:34 mtompset How would you do that with a sudo?
11:34 jcamins I'm not sure, actually.
11:34 jcamins I think probably sudo sh -e 'echo ...'
11:35 mtompset echo "deb squeeze main" | sudo cat - > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/koha-community.list
11:35 mtompset Can cat work that way?
11:35 eythian no
11:35 jcamins No, you're still using the shell to write the file.
11:37 mtompset because sudo sh -e is ugly.
11:37 nengard joined #koha
11:38 rangi mtompset: tee not cat
11:38 mtompset And yes, davidnind, you are right. But I don't want to write ugly, complex instructions.
11:39 rangi and now im going to sleep
11:39 mtompset tee... that may do it.
11:39 eythian it will, that's what I use for that sort of thing
11:40 mtompset Well, there we go... cleaner instructions!
11:42 mtompset I'm working on INSTALL.ubuntu.12.04, jcamins.
11:42 mtompset The instructions.
11:42 wahanui the instructions are coming right now to the wiki near you
11:43 davidnind Depending on who your audience is for the instructions, encouraging good practice would be recommended, especially for people new to Linux and/or Koha :)
11:44 drojf1 hi #koha
11:45 mtompset I'm trying to update the INSTALL.ubuntu for 12.04 and make sure there are enough details that someone not quite familiar with linux should be able to follow it.
11:45 davidnind Writing clearer step by step install instructions is also encouraged mtompset++
11:47 mtompset 1.2 Add koha repository to your apt sources
11:47 mtompset NOTE: This is not required for koha 3.6.7 under Ubuntu 12.04
11:47 mtompset if Zebra indexing (see step 5.2) is done via cron jobs.
11:47 mtompset Had to add that purist comment in there. :)
11:50 davidnind Will test for you if you like, probably over the next day or so though
11:51 mtompset just a second...
11:52 mtompset email or DCC SEND?
11:53 mtompset It's about 5K more than the old version. :)
11:53 mtompset I also tried to keep lines to 65 characters wide, except for command-lines and sample outputs.
11:53 jcamins mtompset: best to attach it to a bug, so that people other than davidnind can test it if they so choose.
11:54 mtompset true...
11:55 davidnind What jcamins said
11:59 mtompset[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8478
12:00 mtompset I'm hoping to obsolete tcohen's other attachment too, but it is getting late in the day.
12:01 mtompset Feel free to also give feedback on[…]ki/Koha_on_Ubuntu
12:04 davidnind Will look at both and provide some feedback
12:05 mtompset I should probably add the external repo evilness into the wiki version.
12:06 * jcamins scares everyone away with PQF.
12:07 mtompset Why does that kind of searching scare people?
12:07 davidnind PQF?
12:08 magnuse PQF is Prefix Query Format
12:08 magnuse PQF?
12:08 wahanui i guess PQF is Prefix Query Format
12:09 jcamins mtompset: The queries are horrifying to behold?
12:09 davidnind Still not any wiser
12:10 jcamins davidnind: pqf=@attr 3=1 @attr 5=102 @attr 2=3 @attr 1=9952 "branch|20120[67]"
12:10 * jcamins thinks that's pretty horrifying to behold.
12:10 * magnuse agrees
12:11 davidnind Is that like boolean seaching, only worse?
12:11 jcamins It's a particular query syntax.
12:11 davidnind Or something in the perl code
12:11 mtompset[…]ery-languages-pqf
12:12 jcamins It's a query syntax. Nothing to do with Perl.
12:12 jcamins It's used by Zebra.
12:12 * magnuse thinks it's time we threw old "library tech" on the dung heap of history and adopted tech solutions that are used by others too
12:12 mtompset
12:12 mtj joined #koha
12:13 davidnind Am now wiser, but don't think it is something mere mortals like me would use
12:13 mtompset We are... solr is newer. :)
12:13 jcamins davidnind: right, that's my point. No one wants to use PQF.
12:14 drojf i do
12:14 jcamins Other than drojf.
12:14 jcamins :P
12:14 * drojf just wanted to say something
12:14 drojf :D
12:14 jcamins magnuse: yeah, but we have to support an equivalent.
12:15 drojf and i don't want to sit next to our patrons and do all their searches
12:16 jcamins (where equivalent = something that can do as much, not something that is as horrifying)
12:16 * mtompset goes, "AAAAAAWWWWWWW! Can't we get both?"
12:16 * mtompset grins.
12:17 jcamins mtompset: well, thanks to Z39.50 being entrenched for ILL, yeah, we do need both.
12:18 mtompset inter-library loan?
12:18 kf yes :)
12:18 * kf waves
12:18 mtompset ILL?
12:19 jcamins Yup.
12:19 mtompset wahanui doesn't know that?
12:19 wahanui mtompset: i don't know
12:19 jcamins ILL is Inter-Library Loan
12:19 mtompset ILL is Inter-Library Loan.
12:19 magnuse ill?
12:19 wahanui it has been said that ill is Inter-Library Loan
12:19 magnuse w00t
12:19 drojf and zebra is ill too
12:20 mtompset nah, zebra is sick and phat. ;)
12:20 paul_p joined #koha
12:21 magnuse kia ora paul_p
12:21 paul_p hello magnuse
12:22 magnuse is this a good time to show up for work, eh? ;-)
12:22 mtompset what's kia ora? I suppose ora means hour.
12:22 * magnuse scoffs
12:22 magnuse mtompset: a maori greeting ;-)
12:22 mtompset He was here around 8ish before.
12:23 mtompset well, Paris time that is.
12:23 magnuse
12:24 magnuse mtompset: those of us who were lucky enough to go on the road trip in nz in 2010 were taught to shout it at the top of our voices at all times ;-)
12:25 mtompset Ah.
12:26 kf magnuse: *sigh*
12:26 mtompset BTW, could you decode your PQF query for us? pqf=@attr 3=1 @attr 5=102 @attr 2=3 @attr 1=9952 "branch|20120[67]"
12:27 jcamins mtompset: it's quite straightforward, really. "Find records with index 9952 matching the left-anchored regular expression 'branch|20120[67]'"
12:27 eythian magnuse: it's just how we speak
12:28 magnuse eythian: ;-)
12:30 jcamins mtompset: my point was, it's very unpleasant to try to come up with queries like that.
12:31 mtompset But what is index 9952? How does this relate to some table in some database?
12:31 jcamins It does not relate to the database at all.
12:31 jcamins That's an index I invented which consists of branch|acquisition-date
12:32 mtompset Then what are the 1, 102, and 3 parts?
12:32 oleonard joined #koha
12:33 jcamins Left-anchored, regular expression, and equals.
12:34 oleonard Hi all
12:34 mtompset that's an ugly way to have something more like: create index on branch+acquisition date tag BLAH; set order to BLAH; seek "branch201206"
12:34 jcamins mtompset: that was my point.
12:35 jcamins mtompset: you still haven't subscribed to the Koha mailing list, have you?
12:35 jcamins You really should.
12:35 mtompset I did.
12:35 mtompset I have decided to ignore a lot of it. :)
12:35 mtompset why?
12:36 jcamins I just sent an e-mail to it about how ugly that query was.
12:41 jcamins ... speaking of mailing lists.
12:43 NateC joined #koha
12:47 drojf joined #koha
12:47 mtompset I just read it.
12:47 mtompset I was working on Documentation all day. Avoided email.
12:48 mtompset Okay... dumb question...  is koha-latest.tar.gz correct?
12:48 eythian try it and find out?
12:52 kf should tell you
12:52 mtompset okay, I'll just wait for the download first.
12:59 mtompset The directory name says 3.8.3 ... waiting for extraction...
12:59 tcohen hi mtompset
12:59 mtompset Greetings, tcohen.
13:00 mtompset I've attached my latest version to the bug report.
13:00 mtompset I'm in the midst of testing the instructions.
13:00 tcohen i ddidn't ahve the time to read it yet
13:00 tcohen did you rewrite them?
13:00 mtompset It's 5K longer than yours. :)
13:00 tcohen my english is not the best
13:01 mtompset I reformatted, changed a few things.
13:01 mtompset Don't worry, there weren't any glaring English problems.
13:01 libsysguy joined #koha
13:01 mtompset I still have some tweaks.
13:02 * mtompset wonders if he posted the tee version.
13:02 * mtompset goes, "Whew! I did"
13:03 * tcohen thinks aptitude does not ship anymore with Ubuntu
13:03 mtompset It does.
13:03 tcohen out-of-the-box?
13:03 mtompset It does.
13:03 tcohen that's weird
13:04 tcohen as it breaks multiarch
13:04 eythian I don't think it does any more
13:04 tcohen maybe its been patched
13:04 eythian I have multiarch with aptitude
13:04 mtompset sounds like someone needs a apt-get update. ;)
13:05 mtompset apt-file, on the other hand, needs to be installed.
13:05 eythian yeah
13:05 mtompset Seems kind of dumb to me.
13:06 ago43 joined #koha
13:07 tcohen[…]itude/+bug/831768
13:08 mtompset Anyways, I'm on step 1.5.2 -- DOH! found some typos.
13:08 mtompset my fault, of course. :(
13:08 tcohen mtompset, I like the changes you've made
13:09 mtompset What I'd like to do to it next is restructure it so that the wiki and it line up more.
13:09 tcohen i must say that I thought of having a version of these files in the 3.6.x tree and this one in master/3.8.x
13:10 tcohen i mean, not a single file for all versions
13:11 tcohen and my main goal was that the preferred - default install
13:11 tcohen because the instructions  where very confusing
13:11 eythian mtompset: only developers really use apt-file
13:12 mtompset Yes, but if you want to easily check for missing libraries, apt-file is useful.
13:12 tcohen When I first rewrote the wiki,  I wanted to write something average users could copy and paste in their terminal
13:13 mtompset When I say wiki, I mean[…]ki/Koha_on_Ubuntu
13:13 mtompset When I say document, I mean INSTALL.ubuntu.12.04 (my attachment on your bug)
13:13 tcohen yes, I know
13:14 tcohen I'm not talking about something specific
13:14 tcohen i'm just pointing out where my efforts are directed
13:14 tcohen or have been
13:15 mtompset I have thought of 3.6 on 10.04 and 3.6 on 12.04 and 3.8 on 10.04 and 3.8 on 12.04, but that's FOUR documents.
13:16 mtompset The problems you encounter in 12.04 are likely to be similar regardless of Koha version.
13:16 mtompset Similarly for 10.04.
13:18 mtompset And the corruption begins...
13:20 mtompset well, I know the adding a repo worked. I saw it pull from the debian.k-c. org repo.
13:22 tcohen I added the repo so it pulls some .deb's that are there
13:23 mtompset I was tempted to cut out the step, because logically if you have the repo, then you should get everything.
13:24 eythian no, you're assuming everyone will follow instructions 100%, which they won't.
13:24 eythian Keeping that in will at least provide a safety net in case they mess up somewhere.
13:25 mtompset typos, I get.
13:25 mveron joined #koha
13:25 mtompset but not following the instructions?!
13:25 mveron Hi #koha
13:26 eythian mtompset: have you met people?
13:26 mtompset yes, but when you don't know what you are doing, you are supposed to follow the instructions.
13:27 eythian Indeed you are.
13:27 eythian That doesn't mean people will however
13:27 eythian Or that they'll do it correctly.
13:28 mtompset Well, that's true. I encountered a typo in my doing it: apt-get instead of apt-key.
13:29 drojf hi mveron
13:29 mveron hi drojf
13:30 kf is someone translating the KOCT plugin into German?
13:31 mveron hi kf :-)
13:31 mtompset I don't speak or write German. So, I don't know.
13:31 mveron I will have a lok at it this evening
13:31 mveron look
13:31 drojf mtompset: i thought you work for SIL, don't you people speak all languages? :P
13:32 * mtompset laughs.
13:32 mtompset Sorry, I only speak English. I dabble in Filipino.
13:33 drojf kf: mveron: i have not looked at it yet
13:33 paul_p_ joined #koha
13:33 kf wb paul_p
13:33 paul_p_ well, it's paul_p_ for now ;-)
13:35 drojf eythian: do i understand that correctly that you are suggesting to have 1) the option to use x-forward-for 2) the option to specify what you expect to be remote_addr (your proxy) and x-forward-for (user's ip) when using x-forward-for?
13:35 eythian drojf: well, I'm more just chucking out ideas.
13:36 eythian though, I'd probably merge 1 and 2.
13:36 drojf yes, i did that with "use ip address" too because i was afraid of paul_p_ coming after me for too many sysprefs ;)
13:37 eythian heh
13:38 * mtompset smirks, "wb -- -- Welcome Back, Kotter"
13:38 drojf eythian: but that sounds like a good idea. i'll let this open a little, don't know when i have time to implement that. maybe others have more input on it
13:39 sekjal joined #koha
13:41 eythian drojf: sure, it's your patch, and doing it just based on apache is a good start.
13:42 mtompset what patch? where patch?
13:44 drojf mtompset:[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8492
13:46 * wizzyrea waves
13:46 drojf eythian: what about using Data::Validate::IP? it sounds like the perfect module for this. would i just say "alright, i use this", are dependencies discussed somewhere first or how does that work?
13:49 eythian drojf: In general, we don't change dependencies in a release unless it can't be helped, but otherwise it doesn't matter all that much. Just put it in the appropriate place.
13:49 eythian Though, it doesn't look like it handles ranges does it?
13:49 eythian so or something wouldn't work?
13:49 drojf it does
13:49 eythian oh, so it does
13:49 eythian I just hadn't read far enough
13:49 eythian looks perfect really
13:50 drojf the network part is one that i would like to use actually, because i would be way too lazy to do that myself ;)
13:50 lime @seen jcamins_away
13:50 tcohen apache should be configured to use <VirtualHost *:80/8080>
13:50 eythian yeah, definitely.
13:50 tcohen no guessing
13:51 eythian lime: huginn appears to be missing.
13:51 eythian tcohen: ?
13:51 lime still sleeping?
13:51 eythian dunno
13:51 eythian vanished offline
13:51 tcohen ?
13:52 lime /etc/init.d/hugin restart
13:52 drojf ?
13:52 lime that didn't work :)
13:52 drojf heh
13:52 eythian no :)
13:52 eythian tcohen: I just don't know the context behind what you're saying about apache there
13:53 tcohen hehe I was discussing with a fellow about that
13:54 tcohen i just wrote in the wrong window
13:54 mtompset Ah.
13:54 eythian ah, good old
13:54 tcohen was talking about the default setup
13:54 eythian oh, that site used to exist :(
13:54 mtompset I was going to say if you are going to use named servers, you want them probably separate.
13:55 mtompset not to mention the OPAC and Intranet stuff point to different dirs.
13:55 tcohen name-based virtualhosts are what most people use
13:56 mtompset That way you only have one port open on your machine. :)
13:57 * mtompset grumbles about the pain of waiting for the dselect to finish.
13:57 tcohen Name-based virtual hosts handle different ports too
13:58 mtompset It looks like a late night, just to make sure this documentation is right.
13:58 tcohen it depends on your NameVirtualHost definitions
13:58 mtompset Yes, but if you are a paranoid security freak, you don't want to have many ports open.
13:59 mtompset Especially in countries that have higher piracy rates. :)
13:59 * mveron just (experimentally) managed to have a German translation with Swiss Orthography with ss instead of ß (Strasse / Straße)    :-)
13:59 tcohen mtompset: we could encourage users to set ufw properly in Ubuntu
13:59 eythian mtompset: it's easier to firewall if you split things up by port.
14:00 mtompset Or you get behind a reverse proxy, and set that up right. :)
14:00 drojf good luck getting my patch to work for you then ;)
14:00 eythian yes, that's what I would do.
14:00 eythian heh
14:01 mtompset firewall settings is surely beyond the scope of instructions for installation.
14:02 eythian definitely
14:02 * tcohen thinks the apache stuff is still complicate for the average librarian
14:03 eythian tbh, I kinda wish instructions could be written such that it assumed you had knowledge of how a server worked: I don't think people who don't know that should be setting up servers. It's like driving when you can barely walk.
14:03 eythian That isn't how the world works, alas.
14:03 tcohen eythian, I agree
14:04 tcohen but...
14:04 tcohen here in Cordoba we help a lot of small community libraries
14:04 tcohen popular libraries, that just have a librarian
14:04 tcohen and managed to get koha installed in their 2003 dated desktop
14:05 tcohen maybe its beyond the scope of this docs, thou
14:05 tcohen (the use case I mean)
14:06 wizzyrea we could have a wiki page of "server set up best practices" and refer to it
14:07 tcohen wizzyrea: agree!
14:07 wizzyrea i.e. "need more help with this step? see this link"
14:07 wizzyrea it might be less annoying to maintain that (things that don't change often) separately from the documentation that *does* change pretty often.
14:08 wizzyrea things like the apache config, and firewall rules
14:08 mtompset Actually, installation instructions shouldn't change much, but the person needs to have some basics.
14:08 wizzyrea when I say "pretty often" i mean, it changes more often than "how do I configure a vhost in apache"
14:09 * mtompset nods
14:09 eythian The difficulty is that it starts depending on how their network is set up etc. etc.
14:09 wizzyrea yep
14:09 eythian and how you do things like add DNS entries
14:09 mtompset I was thinking of splitting the Koha_on_Ubuntu page.
14:09 eythian which is really difficult to explain sometimes :)
14:09 wizzyrea yes, it certainly is
14:10 * wizzyrea explains DNS to librarians all the time
14:10 wizzyrea (I really do, at least once a week)
14:10 mtompset how is editing a file hard to explain?
14:10 mtompset Or are we talking setting up something externally?
14:10 wizzyrea "what do I use to edit the file?" "how do I save it?" "do I have to do this on the command line?"
14:11 wizzyrea ^^ all questions we get pretty often
14:11 mtompset Oh the "I can't believe you have a computer to use" type questions.
14:11 wizzyrea and let's not even get into the editor holy words
14:11 wizzyrea holy wars*
14:11 mtompset you mean vi vs. emacs vs... nano?
14:12 wizzyrea yea, but as much as I'd like to say "go learn it and come back, nub" the truth is everyone starts somewhere
14:12 wizzyrea yesterday's nub is today's expert.
14:12 eythian Usually at the deep end though
14:12 mtompset true enough.
14:13 mtompset!
14:13 wizzyrea some people do ok starting in the deep end. :)
14:13 mtompset When did .27 come out?
14:13 wizzyrea sometime after 3.2
14:13 mtompset ha ha.
14:13 wizzyrea ;)
14:13 eythian wizzyrea: yeah, but many, many don't
14:14 mtompset and then they teach others bad habits. :)
14:14 wizzyrea right, and those are the people who need assistance
14:14 mtompset sudo su -
14:14 mtompset and then do everything. ;)
14:14 wizzyrea at the very least, we need to find some good basic tutorials on best practice
14:14 drojf kf mveron that koct translation is tiny. i made it by accident while looking at the file :D
14:15 wizzyrea that we can refer people to
14:15 wizzyrea so if you know of some
14:16 trea joined #koha
14:19 paul_p_ entering "pushing bugs that passed QA" mode...
14:19 eythian fact for today: Cleopatra lived closer chronologically to the moon landing than to the building of the pyramids.
14:20 paul_p_ hey ! eythian ! you break a myth !
14:20 paul_p_ ;-)
14:20 eythian which myth?
14:20 trea if you have an imported patron with an dateexpiry value, but the patron category they belonged to has an enrollment period, which is going to take precedence?
14:20 gaetan_B joined #koha
14:21 trea is it a "whichever expires first" kind of situation?
14:21 paul_p_ eythian well, not sure which one in fact
14:21 eythian trea: that's what I would expect, but I don't know for sure
14:21 wizzyrea what happens if a patron's expiry is beyond the hard date in the category?
14:21 wizzyrea do they expire with their category?
14:21 wizzyrea or on the date in their record?
14:21 * paul_p_ is not sure too
14:22 libsysguy joined #koha
14:23 drojf if you set a date for the patron that should take precedence over the general category rule. no idea if that is the case though
14:23 mtompset Sounds like a call for a www::mechanized testing for this case. ;)
14:24 mtompset That reminds me... I found my library card from when I was in highschool.
14:24 mtompset They expire them every two years. :(
14:24 drojf hmm cannot test koct because the symbol goes in a toolbar that i have hidden in a way that i do not remember
14:25 eythian drojf: you can usually re-enable them from the menus
14:25 eythian or are you using pentadactyl?
14:25 drojf no, i made it differently. i think some userfile, because it kept reappearing
14:26 eythian if so: :set guioptions+=mT
14:26 eythian oh right
14:26 eythian I'd just create a new default profile
14:26 drojf ah yes that would be easy :)
14:27 mtompset No no... do it the hard way... it's more character building. ;)
14:31 drojf hm no, there is just no button
14:32 mtompset joined #koha
14:32 mtompset Oops... in my joy, I said "of course restart firefox."
14:32 mtompset There goes my chatzilla.
14:33 oleonard mtompset:
14:34 drojf lol mtompset
14:34 drojf but i did a restart of course, still nothing
14:36 mtompset Oh that's a cool idea!
14:36 mtompset No need to go through menus to check it and out.
14:36 chris_n joined #koha
14:37 mtompset and then mass upload when you have time.
14:38 * mtompset is still waiting for the dselect to finish.
14:38 mveron drojf ++ (for the koct translation)
14:41 libsysguy joined #koha
14:42 kf mveron++ :)
14:42 kf oh and drojf++ :)
14:42 kf mveron: I think we will need a patch to Koha too - so that the language chooser works correctly
14:42 mveron kf: drojf did it!
14:43 kf mveron: I am not sure how we want to do it - having a pull down for different german dialects will look interesting :)
14:43 drojf where do we get the dialect translations from?
14:43 drojf is swiss german done? :)
14:43 kf mveron will do de-CH
14:44 mtompset Actually, the language choosing thing at the bottom is ugly.
14:44 drojf i call that thing now "Koha Offline-Verbuchung", nicht verbuchungswerkzeug or something like that, any objections (besides not meeting the koct acronym)?
14:44 mveron kf: We do first the German translation. Then I download the .po files, do a search/replace with tze sz stuff and some terms, then I rename the files to ch-DE and upload them on Pootle
14:44 kf nope sounds perfect to me
14:44 kf that's what we call tools like that here
14:44 kf Offline-Verbuchung
14:45 drojf ok fine
14:45 drojf there was one thing, wait
14:45 mtompset Can we get pretty flags?
14:45 kf mveron: yes, but when you install them, the language chooser will have a pull down for german, not a single link like now I think
14:45 drojf what is a branchcode in the german translation? Zweig-Code sounds weird
14:45 kf mveron: and the whole thing is based on some not so easy to understand database tables - so I think we need to teach it with a patch how to do that
14:46 kf drojf: depends, I normally use the database column names when the document refers to the database
14:46 kf else I would use Bibliothek
14:46 gaetan_B joined #koha
14:46 kf ah
14:46 kf Bibliothekscode? Bibliothekskürzel?
14:46 drojf i think i'll go with bibliothekscode
14:47 drojf kürzel looks better, but i think its more clear that they need the actual code if i name it that way
14:47 mtompset oh come on! jcamins, the koha repository failed me.
14:47 kf makes sense to me
14:48 mtompset I thought all the dependencies were supposed to be listed.
14:48 drojf The option "Apply directly" will directly apply your changes to Koha and should not be used usually.
14:48 drojf wat?
14:49 eythian mtompset: what are you missing?
14:49 mveron kf: If it would be a total other language, let's say Gryphnian, what would have to be done?
14:49 mtompset Template::Plugin... something...
14:50 kf hmmm what about klingon?
14:50 mveron Ok, klingon
14:50 mtompset Template::Plugin::HtmlToText
14:50 kf mveron: I am not sure really, I only know that we have to add the code to the database probably - but we can try it out easily, rename the files and try to install - if it shows up ok, all good :)
14:50 drojf lol @ gryphnian
14:50 eythian mtompset: that is in the repo
14:50 * kf votes for klingon
14:51 mtompset Okay, then it is NOT in the packages file.
14:51 eythian squeeze|main|i386: libtemplate-plugin-htmltotext-perl 0.03-1koha1
14:51 eythian it is
14:51 mtompset like I said... the packages file is missing it.
14:51 eythian oh wait, what packages file?
14:52 mtompset install_misc/ubuntu.packages
14:52 eythian right, that wasn't made with the koha repo in mind last I looked.
14:53 mtompset That's why I had that little script the other day I was working on.
14:53 mtompset I got the file cleaned up for 3.6.7
14:53 mtompset It doesn't quite cut it for 3.8.3
14:56 mtompset I assume Test::Strict is in there too?
14:56 eythian No
14:56 eythian Is it required?
14:56 eythian I didn't see it come up when I checked the deps yesterday
14:57 mtompset It's not required.
14:58 eythian ah
14:58 eythian maybe that's why it didn't come up
14:59 eythian oh wait, I thought you were talking about the repo
14:59 eythian I don't know if it's in the packages file or not
14:59 mtompset Sorry. The terminology is confusing.
14:59 mtompset Because the files I am complaining about are ubuntu.{version}.packages
15:00 mtompset (or at least they will be once I submit my patch to master)
15:00 mveron kf: Worked! I have now two "Deutsch" in the language menu, one Deutsch (de-DE) and one  Deutsch (de-CH)
15:00 kf ah good
15:00 kf but de-DE looks a bit ugly :(
15:01 eythian Why does it have a language menu? Shouldn't it pick up the language settings from the browser?
15:01 kf eythian: we want to switch languages - so you need a language chooser
15:01 mveron KF: I think it is because I have now both Deutsch installed.
15:01 kf mveron: maybe, not sure it's so clever
15:02 eythian hmm, but it's a firefox plugin isn't it?
15:02 kf eythian: not KOCT - Koha :)
15:02 eythian ohh
15:02 eythian as you were then :)
15:02 mtompset Yes, but what if you want to use a language different than your browser?
15:02 mveron eythian: We are in a coutry with several languages, so we have to hae the possibility to switch independently from the browser's language
15:03 eythian that seems weird. Surely if you want to change the language for one thing, you want to change it for everything in the browser?
15:03 mtompset I still think Koha should have pretty flags, and then tooltip the codes.
15:03 mveron ...oh, same answer with other wording from different people...  :-)
15:03 reiveune bye
15:03 eythian yeah, I'm also confusing plugins with sites
15:03 reiveune left #koha
15:03 * mveron has to head to a shop before it closes...
15:03 kf mtompset: flags only work if one country = one language
15:03 eythian though, people should have their browser set with their preferred languages anyway :)
15:04 kf but for example spanish english and german are spoken in more than one
15:04 mtompset Yes, but that's why you tooltip the codes.
15:04 kf eythian: public computers
15:04 kf eythian: and switzerland has 3 official languages, I think norway has 2
15:04 eythian spose
15:04 mtompset put the german flag multiple times, different tool tips.
15:04 kf and english exchange students
15:04 kf we at least want german and english available to everyone everywhere
15:05 kf the language chooser is really an important element and browser detection not a good way to do it
15:05 eythian hmm. I think the better solution overall would be to make it easier to change in the browser, but that's outside the scope of Koha.
15:05 eythian The browser has a neat thing for this
15:05 kf right
15:06 kf but people don't know how to change language settings in browsers
15:06 kf and at the moment you can't deactivate english even if you wanted to
15:07 eythian e.g. my browser sends: Accept-Languagenl,en-gb;q=0.8,en-nz;q=0.6,en;q=0.4,en-us;q=0.2
15:08 eythian although en-nz should be 2nd not 3rd...
15:08 kf yeah, but the library can't deactivate english
15:08 jcamins You can't deactivate English?
15:08 jcamins That's a problem.
15:08 eythian can you not untick it?
15:09 kf yeah, but it will still fall back to it I think
15:09 kf rangi was complaining about it
15:09 eythian ah right
15:09 kf I think one library wanted only maori
15:09 eythian yeah, that rings a bell actually
15:10 eythian although, I'd think it would only do that if the template file didn't exist.
15:10 kf not sure
15:10 kf I think it could overall work better
15:11 kf but it works - so please don't break it :)
15:11 eythian it doesn't work all that well
15:11 eythian if I switch to en-NZ things like news stop working
15:11 eythian as they only work with en.
15:11 drojf they do?
15:12 asaurat left #koha
15:12 eythian yep. At least, they did in 3.6.
15:12 kf there is a bug for that
15:12 kf they work for German
15:12 eythian yeah
15:12 drojf heh i thought so
15:12 kf I think it's a problem for subdivided languages
15:12 eythian it is
15:12 kf so that's why I think we  need to do some testng for de-CH :)
15:12 eythian you can only set the news for 'en', but it doesn't match that to 'en-NZ'
15:12 kf not against it at all - only have to be a little careful adding it maybe
15:13 kf like being a bit worried about display
15:13 kf mailing lists?
15:13 wahanui mailing lists are at[…]ha-mailing-lists/
15:15 jcamins mtompset: the Template... package isn't required for 3.6.
15:15 mtompset I know, but it is for 3.8.3
15:15 jcamins The patch that adds it was rejected for 3.6.7 due to potential problems with dependencies.
15:15 kf documentation?
15:15 wahanui it has been said that documentation is at
15:15 jcamins And not having been tested.
15:16 jcamins I'd reeeeaaallllyyyyyyyy like to see it in 3.6.8, though.
15:16 * kf too
15:16 * jcamins looks at kf significantly
15:16 kf because then we can update transaltions again without manipulating template files
15:16 kf well, it's still only fixed for the cart
15:16 kf and we need the same fix for the lists :(
15:17 mtompset what potential problem with dependencies?
15:17 mtompset Is there a bug report somewhere?
15:17 jcamins mtompset: that when I embargoed 3.6.7 it hadn't been packaged yet.
15:17 kf search bugzilla for broken cart email I think
15:18 kf it shoudl be on that bug
15:18 jcamins The potential problem was the lack of libtemplate-plugin-htmltotext-perl.
15:18 mtompset But it does exist, if you add the repositories.
15:18 * mtompset cringes.
15:19 jcamins mtompset: *now* it does.
15:19 mtompset Ah.
15:19 jcamins 3.6.x has a one-month embargo.
15:19 mtompset where you can't add dependencies.
15:19 mtompset when
15:20 jcamins No, you can add dependencies, but they have to be added more than a month before the planned release.
15:20 mtompset Right. no adding dependencies at the last minute.
15:20 jcamins Exactly.
15:20 * jcamins is a bit paranoid about this.
15:23 * jcamins is a bit paranoid about a lot of things.
15:23 jcamins Which is why at some point he will adapt your script to be part of the release process.
15:23 mtompset Would you like the newest version?
15:23 mtompset I added some extra fixes.
15:23 jcamins I'll wait until you have it working on 3.8.x and master.
15:23 jcamins :)
15:24 jcamins It's also going to have to handle different versions of Ubuntu while running under Debian, which may be a challenge.
15:24 mtompset I don't think so.
15:24 mtompset I think the script is pretty non-OS specific.
15:25 jcamins Oh, *you* don't need it to.
15:25 jcamins But running under Debian, I want to be alerted about any potential problems with Lucid, or Precise.
15:25 mtompset "I don't think so" meant I don't think it would be a challenge.
15:25 jcamins Oh. Excellent!
15:26 mtompset I don't see anything in the script which would be OS specific to its running environment.
15:26 jcamins Well, apt-file will have to use different databases, I imagine.
15:27 mtompset Yes, but that is external to the script.
15:27 mtompset The script in its current state detects if apt-file is installed
15:27 mtompset AND
15:27 mtompset if you remembered to run apt-file update
15:27 laurence left #koha
15:27 mtompset (at least once)
15:28 mtompset 50% through the install instructions... no major glitches.
15:28 mtompset Just have to read, and pay attention.
15:29 jcamins Hehe. That's the hard part.
15:29 mtompset Some of my external Wiki links are important.
15:30 jcamins Oh, nice and easy.
15:30 jcamins Just use different sources.list files.
15:30 slef jcamins: ITYM sources.list.d files
15:31 eythian slef: ITYM sources.list.d directories
15:31 eythian (although probably not in this case, as it's for apt-file)
15:31 jcamins slef: apt-file has an argument for sources.list only.
15:32 mtompset --sources-list | -s sources.list
15:32 mtompset Sets the sources.list file to a  different  value
15:32 mtompset from its default /etc/apt/sources.list.
15:32 jcamins :)
15:32 jcamins Easy as pie.
15:33 slef sources.list.d files are usable as that I think
15:33 mtompset Does that mean it doesn't check sources.list.d files?>
15:33 jcamins mtompset: I think sources.list.d/* is included by sources.list?
15:33 jcamins No.
15:33 jcamins Hm.
15:34 jcamins Don't know what to make of that, then.
15:34 mtompset well, if I try to run my script on 3.8.3
15:34 mtompset it should barf on things only in the k-c repo.
15:35 mtompset well, say they are missing, not barf.
15:35 mtompset and if it does, then I probably should add a loop in there for adding the other repos.
15:36 jcamins The man page mentions sources.list.d, so maybe it does check that?
15:36 wizzyrea oleonard: your library is pretty awesome
15:36 oleonard Oh yeah, who says?
15:36 wizzyrea ME
15:36 wizzyrea :)
15:36 mtompset perhaps.
15:37 * wizzyrea just saw that you have a big truck filled with gadgets in your parking lot
15:37 jcamins mtompset: I just checked, and it uses sources.list.d, provided you don't specify -s
15:37 oleonard Hah, yeah. wizzyrea's spy satellites come through again.
15:37 jcamins o.O
15:37 * wizzyrea flexes
15:37 mtompset that's good. :)
15:37 wizzyrea actually, someone posted it on facebook :P
15:37 oleonard Facebook, spy satellites, same thing.
15:37 wizzyrea keke
15:38 * libsysguy goes to stalk oleonard on facebook
15:38 mtompset libsysguy?
15:38 wahanui libsysguy is probably Koha's hottest developer or partying with swedes on his deck
15:38 oleonard libsysguy: You'll have to stalk the Athens County Public Libraries to see what wizzyrea is seeing I think
15:38 libsysguy heh
15:38 * wizzyrea was following ACPL
15:38 mtompset Is oleonard swedish? ;)
15:38 libsysguy I don't think so
15:39 nengard joined #koha
15:39 trea left #koha
15:39 libsysguy omg oleonard you drive a Semi!?!?!
15:39 oleonard wizzyrea: I hope the "digital bookmobile" helps some patrons, but I have the same mixed feelings about it that I have about ebooks in general
15:39 wizzyrea yep, it's the same as how I feel about the statewide service here
15:40 libsysguy fwiw Anna gets really excited that she can checkout ebooks
15:40 magnuse hm, you'd think a *digital* bookmobile would look less physical, perhaps? ;-)
15:40 oleonard Overdrive sponsors the on-site training in order to encourage libraries to sign up, so it's all profit-driven
15:40 libsysguy book mobile on SL?
15:41 jcamins Hehe.
15:44 mtompset 53% through the installation document.
15:44 mtompset I am so skipping uninstalling and upgrading. :)
15:55 mtompset sudo make install
15:55 mtompset FINALLY!
15:57 eythian jcamins: do you think we should tell mtompset that there are packages that work on Ubuntu too? ;)
15:58 mtompset you mean the koha-common?
15:58 eythian Yeah :)
15:58 kf eythian: ah no, that would be mean after all his work :)
15:59 vfernandes joined #koha
15:59 vfernandes hi guys
15:59 mtompset by the way, are those referenced in the wiki somewhere?
15:59 eythian yeah
15:59 drojf digital book mobile? i picture an access point on a radio controlled car and have drive-by downloads
15:59 eythian mtompset: see the top of the koha on ubuntu page.
15:59 wizzyrea haha I like that drojf
15:59 wizzyrea like the google street view of mobile downloads
16:00 eythian find open network shares on open wifi networks and uploads stuff to them as it goes past?
16:00 drojf or, well, it's 2012, maybe an ebook drone
16:00 wizzyrea yea pretty much ;)
16:00 vfernandes i'm having 1 problem... the system preference dontmerge is set to "Do" but when I change one authority, the data in the records don't change
16:00 wizzyrea an ebook drone would be cool too, except for the bombing innocents thing.
16:01 mtompset sorry, but Quick start loses me.
16:01 vfernandes i'm doing something wrong?
16:01 drojf bombing with knowledge!
16:02 eythian mtompset: it's easier in practice than what you're doing, I expect.
16:03 mtompset perhaps... except, how would that work behind a reverse proxy?
16:03 eythian very easily
16:03 eythian you just set it up exactly the way you normally would, perhaps with some internal names, and point the proxy to it
16:03 mtompset the domain name and everything would be the same?
16:03 jcamins vfernandes: I don't think authority merging works.
16:03 eythian well, you can always change them after installation
16:03 eythian just tweaking the apache config
16:04 eythian About half of my installations are behind a reverse proxy I think.
16:09 jcamins I don't see how there's any difference between going through all the installation manually and using the packages, except the first way takes a whole bunch of steps and manual work, and the second doesn't.
16:09 melia joined #koha
16:09 mtompset Well, there still are config steps.
16:09 jcamins If you have a reverse proxy, you have to edit the Apache config file no matter what.
16:09 mtompset It does reduce the number of steps.
16:09 jcamins Yes, but you will do the exact same config steps with both.
16:10 bshum_ joined #koha
16:10 jcamins The difference is with the package the upgrade is more-or-less foolproof.
16:10 * paul_p_ hates failing QA on patches...(bug 5409 and bug 8163)
16:10 mtompset I'll be trying a koha-common install in the future.
16:11 * eythian goes home, later all
16:11 kf have anice evening
16:12 mtompset Perhaps INSTALL.ubuntu.via_packages?
16:13 mtompset INSTALL.ubuntu.manually?
16:13 jcamins mtompset: what about just one file, that says "if you're using packages, do this, and meet back up at step 30."
16:13 kf hm
16:14 kf is it wise to put the file in there in this case?
16:14 kf if you have downloaded and unpacked it, it might be too late?
16:14 kf hm no, perhaps not
16:14 kf ignore me :)
16:14 mtompset once I do a koha-common install, I'll have a better idea.
16:15 mtompset but that is probably a good idea.
16:15 drojf and then you wonder what you did all the manual stuff for :D
16:15 mtompset for testing and documenting history. :P
16:15 mtompset and for the glory of doing it yourself.
16:16 drojf funny question, but can i copy in git from one branch to another with some magick trick?
16:17 drojf more magic than switching branches manually and copy stuff at some temp place that is
16:17 mtompset oh. :(
16:18 drojf ah i could just do git merge in this case i guess
16:18 drojf or not. better read what it does first :D
16:19 kf drojf: git cherry-pick maybe?
16:19 drojf aaah that sounds more like it
16:20 kf I used it once to backport patches from a 3.y to a 3.x
16:20 kf worked nicely
16:22 drojf kf++ # that worked
16:23 jcamins drojf: I do git checkout branch -- file
16:23 jcamins Followed by git reset
16:23 jcamins (to unstage it)
16:23 kf :)
16:24 mtompset Shoot... found another bug in the docs.
16:24 jcamins drojf: what are you trying to do?
16:24 jcamins First question?
16:24 wahanui "What are you trying to do?"  "What is the goal?" or "What problem are you experiencing?"
16:26 mtompset Shoot! I just learned about things missing in the crontab!
16:26 wizzyrea joined #koha
16:27 drojf jcamins: i sent a small patch that i would like to enhance at some point. but i also want to keep the state i have now so i can do followups on what i sent in, so i cherrypicked the commit to a new branch
16:27 mtompset the misc/cronjobs/crontab.example --- are all those things necessary?
16:27 jcamins mtompset: no, they are examples.
16:27 jcamins drojf: okay, so what exactly is the problem?
16:27 drojf notjing
16:28 drojf it worked with kf's help :)
16:28 JoeLib001 joined #koha
16:28 jcamins Oh. Excellent. :)
16:28 drojf i just did not know how to do it, cherry pick was the answer
16:29 mtompset # OVERDUE NOTICES
16:29 mtompset 0    1 * * *  $KOHA_CRON_PATH/ -t
16:29 mtompset some are good to have, like this one, right?
16:29 jcamins That's pretty critical if you want to send overdue notices.
16:30 jcamins Right.
16:31 JoeLib001 Hello. :-) Has anyone used the Koha Reports to create a "Barcode Slip". The Barcode Slip I need to create needs to be printable in a 3x5 format. I know all of the fields and have created a test report with the data I need.
16:32 jcamins JoeLib001: no, the reports module doesn't do barcode slips. You might have more luck with the label tool.
16:32 JoeLib001 I will look at that then. :-) Thanks.
16:32 mtompset Oh, another question, while I think of it... can you do a meaningful development install off of koha-common?
16:33 jcamins mtompset: no, one does development installs with git.
16:33 jcamins You can't do a useful development install from a tarball, either.
16:34 mtompset okay... and koha-common is purposefully suited to multiple-sites, but you only have to install one site?
16:34 jcamins Right.
16:34 mtompset Then it would seem that the tarball is best for "only one site ever".
16:35 jcamins Right.
16:35 jcamins And even then it's not a good idea, if you're on a deb-based system.
16:35 mtompset Correct.
16:36 mtompset So the method of installation is really a combination of what OS am I on and what will I be doing.
16:37 jcamins Right. If you're developing, you should use git. If you're not developing on a deb-based system, you should use packages. If you're not developing on a different flavour of Linux, you should use the tarball.
16:37 kf translatable koct a full success :)
16:37 jenkins_koha Starting build #790 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #773 20 days ago)
16:37 wizzyrea which install do I use is <reply> If you're developing, you should use git. If you're not developing on a deb-based system, you should use packages. If you're not developing on a different flavour of Linux, you should use the tarball.
16:38 jcamins which install do I use?
16:38 wizzyrea aw
16:38 jcamins which install do wizzyrea use?
16:38 * wizzyrea will try again
16:38 drojf bad bot
16:38 jcamins which install do wahanui use?
16:38 wizzyrea which install to use?
16:38 wahanui If you're developing, you should use git. If you're not developing on a deb-based system, you should use packages. If you're not developing on a different flavour of Linux, you should use the tarball.
16:38 wizzyrea there we go
16:38 jcamins :)
16:39 JoeLib001 I was reading the help on Labels and it says: "Currently all fields in the following tables are used: items, biblioitems, biblio, branches" Does that mean I can't use fields from aqorders and o?
16:39 jcamins That is correct.
16:40 jcamins I think.
16:40 JoeLib001 Can I make it? :-)
16:40 jcamins JoeLib001: I am sure it is possible. I have no idea how much work it would involve.
16:40 wizzyrea yep, and if you do, submit a patch
16:41 JoeLib001 Yeah, we'll see where the dark rabbit hole leads. It might not have a bottom or it might have spikes at the bottom. :-)
16:42 wizzyrea or it might be a portal to a magical land of happiness and wonder.
16:42 wizzyrea never know.
16:42 JoeLib001 Could be. Hehe. :-)
16:42 mtompset wizzyrea++ # yay for optimism!
16:42 wizzyrea could also be an alternate universe where the laws of physics are completely different from the ones we know here.
16:42 wizzyrea WE JUST DON'T KNOW :) :)
16:43 wizzyrea do let us know what you find though.
16:43 JoeLib001 I think the Alice computer game was probably more correct than the original movie. :-)
16:43 JoeLib001 Will do.
16:44 * wizzyrea played that game
16:44 wizzyrea had nightmares for weeks.
16:45 oleonard Alice computer game?
16:46 mtompset I was looking at INSTALL.debian.
16:46 drojf not in the debian packages it seems :P
16:46 drojf the alice game i mean
16:46 mtompset It's as bad as UBUNTU's!
16:47 wizzyrea fix it then :P
16:47 JoeLib001 Hehe. :-)
16:47 wizzyrea you should have seen it before we fixed it the last time.
16:47 drojf "Skype, together with Norton, Adobe and TomTom, is spreading the word about why it's important to keep your software in top condition" lol. a bunch of companies whose software's deinstallation would be the best update
16:47 mtompset It's 12:45am... I just barely made it to 5.2 in my modified instructions for Ubuntu.
16:54 paul_p_ nengard_lunch = pls look at[…]g.cgi?id=8392#c11
16:54 paul_p_ @later tell nengard  = pls look at[…]g.cgi?id=8392#c11
16:55 jcamins paul_p_: no huginn.
16:55 drojf paul_p_: later does not work
16:55 jcamins :(
16:55 paul_p_ yep, that's what I understood.
16:55 kf bye all
16:55 drojf bye kf
16:55 kf left #koha
16:56 paul_p_ OK, time to leave for me now. "passed QA" queue almost empty. Busy afternoon !
16:56 lime joined #koha
17:28 limon_away joined #koha
17:29 limon_away I bought my TomTom specifically because it runs on Linux. Hate the Windows-only "My TomTom" interface for updates.
17:29 jcamins limon_away: well that's ironic.
17:29 jcamins At least it doesn't require DOS, I guess?
17:30 jcamins (though at least you could use FreeDOS, I suppose...)
17:32 JoeLib001 Hehe, I hacked my tomtom and added a mp3 player, a video player, and a linux boot image. ;-)
17:34 JoeLib001 Well, I use the term hacked loosely as I didn't do much work. :-)
17:35 libsysguy joined #koha
17:35 libsysguy joined #koha
17:36 JoeLib001 I can't add an "item" to the Batch Label Queue. I don't have an item associated with the record. Would that be my problem?
17:37 JoeLib001 I have a whole slew of errors in my error log too.
17:37 jcamins JoeLib001: probably you need an item, but I don't really know.
17:37 JoeLib001 Here is part of one of my errors.
17:37 JoeLib001 Cannot add or update a child row: a foreign key constraint fails (`koha`.`creator_batches`, CONSTRAINT `creator_batches_ibfk_3` FOREIGN KEY (`item_number`) REFERENCES `items` (`itemnumber`) ON DELETE CASCADE) at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Creators/ line 72
17:39 jcamins That's a problem.
17:39 JoeLib001 Looks like I don't have a profile id either. Which is odd as there are profiles with profile IDs.
17:39 jcamins Sounds like you have a seriously screwed up database.
17:40 JoeLib001 I don't have any items in my database yet.
17:40 JoeLib001 All I have are records.
17:40 JoeLib001 I opted not to add items per Journal Subscription creation.
17:41 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #790: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 3 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/Koha_master/790/
17:41 jenkins_koha * fridolyn.somers: Bug 8476: Little bug in OPAC XSLT on OPACURLOpenInNewWindow
17:41 jenkins_koha * dpavlin: Bug 8439 - Printing basketgroup does not work on plack
17:41 jenkins_koha * kyle.m.hall: BugFix - ReturnToShelvingCart
17:41 jenkins_koha * dpavlin: Bug 8442 - labels creator fixes for plack
17:41 jenkins_koha * dcook: Bug 8448 - Holds Awaiting Pickup : Cancelling a hold on a waiting item with multiple holds displays a blank screen instead of a warning prompt
17:41 jenkins_koha * dcook: Bug 8414 - Intranet header toplinks display white rather than blue in < IE8
17:41 jenkins_koha * fridolyn.somers: Bug 8440: Dates does not appear in suggestions management
17:41 jenkins_koha * ruth: Bug 8392: Category age ranges not being enforced
17:41 jenkins_koha * f.demians: Bug 8392: Avoid having an untranslatable age range
17:41 jenkins_koha * 8062 Followup for HTML::FormatText
17:41 jenkins_koha * magnus: Bug 7367 - One "the" too many
17:41 jenkins_koha * dcook: Bug 8434 - Notice generation fails for Advanced Notices, Item Due, and Overdues when run in shell (due to error in
17:41 jenkins_koha * julian.maurice: Bug 8376: New script to export borrowers misc/
17:41 jcamins JoeLib001: well, maybe the label tool requires items.
17:42 JoeLib001 The labels are for our book acquisitions. So maybe, I need to work out how we are doing the Acquistions then.
17:42 JoeLib001 I have it so that it doesn't create the item until we "receive" the book.
17:43 JoeLib001 So, we probably need to add the item to the book as soon as we enter the order in Acquisitions?
17:43 qwerty joined #koha
17:44 qwerty how to change the opac background with our image file
17:45 jcamins qwerty: you can use CSS.
17:47 jcamins oleonard's blog
17:47 wahanui oleonard's blog is
17:47 jcamins qwerty: you might look there for ideas. ^^
17:47 qwerty in opacusercss .tell me the script
17:49 jcamins qwerty: it's the same way you would change the background for any other page.
17:49 qwerty i want to add out library building is in opac background on search bar
17:50 jcamins I think probably if you set the 'background' CSS property for the search bar, that would work.
17:52 qwerty yes am looking for changing background in search bar
17:52 jcamins You could also find another OPAC that does that, and take a look at the CSS they used.
17:54 JoeLib001 Yeah, once I add an item to one of the records everything works.
17:56 JoeLib001 I will have to look at our Acquisitions process and make sure we add an item when we create the record.
17:56 JoeLib001 Thanks for the help guys. :-)
17:56 jcamins Hey, you're the one who did all the figuring things out. :)
17:57 drojf unlike someone else
17:57 jcamins Heh.
17:57 jcamins drojf: I probably shouldn't have said anything.
17:58 drojf i really wonder if it is a language thing or a culture thing or a person thing. this way of interaction
17:59 jcamins If s/he had tried *at all* I would've explained how to do it.
18:00 jcamins Even pulled up a web browser to find the name of the element.
18:00 drojf also the way of using a new nick every time you come in. makes it seem like you know you should be hiding
18:00 jcamins I presume the theory is that we must be stupid since we're giving away our work, so maybe we won't make the connection.
18:01 drojf lol
18:16 drojf do i have to restart sshd after a new interface comes up? i can't connect via wifi, also not eth0 if i plug it in later (not at boot)
18:19 jcamins I'd never heard of that.
18:22 jcamins Oooh.
18:22 jcamins I could roll the truffles in coconut!
18:24 drojf :)
18:24 * jcamins has been on a no-bake dessert kick recently.
18:25 Morthland joined #koha
18:25 Morthland How can I set a default item type?
18:44 sekjal joined #koha
18:55 jcamins drojf: if you didn't figure it out yet, I realized what the problem probably is with sshd.
18:55 jcamins You have it set up to listen on a specific IP.
18:57 drojf jcamins: thanks, i stopped looking for it to write an email to duckduckgo that the relevancy of their search results has become horrible
18:57 drojf which annoyed me a lot when i searched fot he ssh thing
18:57 jcamins I thought ddg was supposed to have excellent relevancy?
18:57 drojf was
18:57 drojf no idea what is going on
18:58 drojf but i regoogle almost everything at the moment
19:00 drojf[…]28469000001212063 seems like they know it already
19:04 wizzyrea well google just did a huuuuuuge push on relevancy
19:04 wizzyrea so it's possible that google just recently got a lot better.
19:04 drojf i almost never used google the last two years
19:04 drojf so that can't be it for me
19:04 wizzyrea right I"m talking in the last 2 months
19:05 drojf but yes, while ddg seemed sucky, google looked less sucky than before
19:05 wizzyrea google changed their ranking/relevancy algorithm
19:05 jwagner joined #koha
19:06 drojf i had the impression that a lot of the hits for people _selling_ stuff that i want to read _about_ (and not buy) have vanished. i like that
19:06 drojf and other junk
19:08 wizzyrea is batch patron mod new?
19:08 drojf also google sends me 2-3 people every day to look at my ikea lunch box raspberry pi case :D
19:09 jcamins wizzyrea: I think so.
19:09 jcamins Speaking of Google, I need to switch to Piwik.
19:10 nengard left #koha
19:10 drojf speaking of that, it's really scary what stuff i can see about people visiting my website, the hoster has urchin running for everybody, which i think is pre-google anayltics
19:11 drojf but you should switch to piwik :)
19:13 drojf and i should find out how to make them anonymize my logs. it took only two weeks to get them to reenable me to install mediawiki in my db, so a service they don't advertise can surely only take a few months (or a "no"). that's what you get for 2,50 a month
19:15 jcamins drojf: No wonder service is so problematic- that's absurdly inexpensive!
19:17 drojf yes indeed :D i wanted to get microhosting for that money, but those people did not really answer my emails, so i thought i'd just try this, how bad can it be for that price ;) i don't really have money to spend on such things at the moment
19:21 drojf nice, fast reply from ddg
19:24 limon_away joined #koha
19:30 rangi Morning
19:30 rangi And zomg
19:31 drojf hey rangi
19:31 * jcamins isn't quite sure what latter is in response to.
19:31 drojf and ?
19:32 rangi Items in 090
19:32 jcamins Heh.
19:32 jcamins Yeah.
19:33 rangi 0 chance that will work
19:33 jcamins Ya know, we could actually fix this, once the search rewrite was completed.
19:33 rangi Yep
19:34 chris_n` joined #koha
19:34 jcamins Want to map something to somewhere dumb?
19:34 jcamins No problem.
19:34 drojf lol
19:34 jcamins (not that 090 is that dumb)
19:34 jcamins Also, we'd have to get rid of GRS-1, but that was always just an awful idea.
19:34 rangi Yep
19:35 rangi But for now changing mapping and hoping for the best is about it
19:35 jcamins Yup.
19:36 mib_vdxzbe joined #koha
19:36 JoeLib001 drojf: You made a raspberry pi case from a lunchbox?
19:36 mib_vdxzbe hello
19:36 mib_vdxzbe Can anyone help me, this is the error i am getting, Unparsable version '' for prerequisite Test::Strict at Makefile.PL line 557. Warning: prerequisite CGI::Session::Driver::memcached 0.04 not found. Warning: prerequisite Template::Plugin::HtmlToText 0.03 not found. Warning: prerequisite Test::Strict 0 not found. ERROR from evaluation of /build/koha-3.08.03/pe
19:36 drojf JoeLib001: it had a good size ;)
19:36 JoeLib001 Hehe. :-)
19:36 jcamins JoeLib001: it saved the raspberry pi from dunking in soda.
19:36 JoeLib001 I made mine out of legos. :-)
19:37 jcamins mib_vdxzbe: those are just warnings. You should be able to ignore them.
19:37 drojf that was what i wanted to do :)
19:37 drojf but then these things were lying around
19:37 JoeLib001 Hehe. :-) Is it water tight?
19:37 mib_vdxzbe anybody?
19:37 wahanui hmmm... anybody is here
19:37 jcamins There is a patch to fix the first (but you can ignore it), and the others can be installed from the apt repo at
19:38 mib_vdxzbe Ok
19:38 drojf it was tight enough for the bottle of water i poured over my desk shortly after i made the case :D
19:38 JoeLib001 Cool. :-)
19:38 mib_vdxzbe how do i add the apt repo?
19:38 JoeLib001 Yeah, my lego case would not protect it from water very well. Lots of open space around the connectors.
19:39 jcamins debian?
19:39 wahanui debian is what most people use and there are good manuals and even packages for that
19:39 drojf but it has holes for the cables of course, so it won't swim well. at least not without the raspi dying
19:39 mib_vdxzbe ubuntu
19:39 jcamins koha on debian?
19:39 wahanui koha on debian is[…]on_Debian_Squeeze
19:39 jcamins That's what I was looking for ^^
19:39 mib_vdxzbe oh
19:39 mib_vdxzbe ok
19:39 mib_vdxzbe so get that?
19:39 jcamins I didn't remember the URL, and I knew our bot had it somewhere in its memory. ;)
19:39 mib_vdxzbe haha
19:39 jcamins Step 1 or 2 on the page is how to add the apt repo.
19:39 drojf JoeLib001: installed koha on the raspberry pi already? :P
19:39 JoeLib001 Yeah. Would be an interesting project to see about making it water tight. Would need special connectors and such probably.
19:39 mib_vdxzbe thanks
19:40 JoeLib001 Hahahaha! No.
19:40 JoeLib001 :-)
19:40 drojf works well!
19:40 drojf kind of :)
19:40 JoeLib001 Really?
19:40 drojf yes
19:40 drojf i develop on it
19:40 JoeLib001 Yeah, figured the kind of. Probably would work well for a small collection though.
19:40 JoeLib001 Hmm......
19:40 drojf with plack it runs ok
19:40 drojf without it's horribly slow
19:41 JoeLib001 What is plack?
19:41 wahanui plack is working quite nice.
19:41 drojf
19:41 wahanui is, like, probably good place to get started with latest development
19:41 jcamins wahanui: forget plack
19:41 wahanui jcamins: I forgot plack
19:41 libsysguy joined #koha
19:42 jcamins Plack is <reply> Plack is a FastCGI thingy that works with Koha. See for more information.
19:42 jcamins plack?
19:42 wahanui Plack is a FastCGI thingy that works with Koha. See for more information.
19:43 mib_vdxzbe bob is <reply> Bob is an awsome dude
19:43 mib_vdxzbe bob?
19:43 wahanui i think bob is doing sys admins now
19:43 drojf yeah i just saw there is not much about what it actually is on that page :) it caches a lot of stuff and makes pages load faster
19:43 mib_vdxzbe aw :(
19:44 JoeLib001 Cool. :-)
19:44 drojf JoeLib001:[…]on_a_Raspberry_Pi
19:44 jcamins raspberry pi?
19:44 wahanui raspberry pi is arm-based
19:44 jcamins forget raspberry pi
19:44 wahanui jcamins: I forgot raspberry pi
19:45 jcamins raspberry pi is <reply> Raspberry Pi embedded computers run Koha just fine. :) See[…]on_a_Raspberry_Pi
19:45 jcamins raspberry pi?
19:45 wahanui Raspberry Pi embedded computers run Koha just fine. :) See[…]on_a_Raspberry_Pi
19:45 drojf :)
19:45 JoeLib001 Sweet. :-) I like it.
19:47 mib_vdxzbe jcamins, i did what you said, still says Unparsable version '' for prerequisite Test::Strict at Makefile.PL line 557. ERROR from evaluation of /build/koha-3.08.03/perl-ldap-0.38/Makefile.PL: Can't locate Module/Install/ in @INC (@INC contains: /build/koha-3.08.03 /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.12.4 /usr/local/share/perl/5.12.4 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/sha
19:47 JoeLib001 I've been thinking about creating a catalog of my own books, dvds, games, etc. That way when I see something I like and don't remember if I bought it yet. I can just search it. hehe.
19:48 jcamins Ah, I didn't see the last error.
19:48 wizzyrea JoeLib001: are you familiar with librarything?
19:48 jcamins The Unparsable version error can just be ignored.
19:48 drojf heh nice. i think about making koha my video library
19:48 mib_vdxzbe but it stops
19:48 jcamins The other one has nothing to do with Koha.
19:48 mib_vdxzbe oh
19:48 drojf unfortunately html5 does not play avi
19:48 wizzyrea (if you don't want to, say, run a koha instance)
19:48 JoeLib001 wizzyrea: Somewhat. Haven't looked into it.
19:48 mib_vdxzbe how do i fix it?
19:48 drojf but mp4 and mkv seems to work
19:49 jcamins mib_vdxzbe: no idea. Use the packages for whatever it is you're trying to install.
19:49 mib_vdxzbe trying to install koha
19:50 jcamins mib_vdxzbe: but you are currently installing perl-ldap 0.38?
19:50 mib_vdxzbe no
19:50 mib_vdxzbe i'm running the
19:50 jcamins You should try `sudo apt-get install libmodule-install-perl` to install Module::Install.
19:51 mib_vdxzbe ok
19:51 jcamins What is perl-ldap-0.38, though?
19:51 mib_vdxzbe no idea
19:51 jcamins It's on your system.
19:51 mib_vdxzbe oh, well i'm not sure what it is
19:52 jcamins You must have downloaded it manually?
19:52 JoeLib001 wizzyrea: Yeah, I don't much care to create another account. Not to mention I would be using their hosting and such. Google already has part of my soul. I don't need to give another part of it. hehe. ;-)
19:52 mib_vdxzbe maybe
19:52 jcamins The Koha tarballs don't include a directory called perl-ldap-0.38.
19:52 mib_vdxzbe oh
19:53 jcamins mib_vdxzbe: what instructions are you following?
19:53 jcamins koha on ubuntu?
19:53 wahanui it has been said that koha on ubuntu is[…]ki/Koha_on_Ubuntu
19:53 jcamins ^^ that page should have good, detailed instructions.
19:53 drojf heh
19:54 mib_vdxzbe ok ,well now it says, ERROR from evaluation of /build/koha-3.08.03/perl-ldap-0.38/Makefile.PL: Cannot find an extension with method 'Meta_ArrayKeys' at /usr/share/perl5/Module/Install/ line 186.
19:54 jcamins You need to start over, I think.
19:54 jcamins perl-ldap-0.38 has nothing to do with Koha.
19:54 mib_vdxzbe oh
19:55 jcamins I would do the following: `mv /build/koha-3.08.03 /build/koha-3.08.03-old`
19:55 mib_vdxzbe i have been fallowing this[…]untu-part-4-koha/
19:55 jcamins `tar zxvf koha-3.08.03.tar.gz`
19:55 jcamins Oh my.
19:55 jcamins That's four years old.
19:55 cait joined #koha
19:55 jcamins That will not be helpful. :(
19:55 jcamins The instructions on the wiki are accurate.
19:55 mib_vdxzbe o
19:55 mib_vdxzbe k
19:55 * cait waves
19:56 JoeLib001 Where is the docs folder at in koha?
19:56 jcamins drojf: didn't you comment on that post to tell them that it was out of date?
19:56 rangi Ok my stop
19:56 rangi Bbiab
19:57 drojf jcamins: i think so, yes. but it does not seem to be there
19:57 jcamins Guess they didn't like losing traffic.
19:57 drojf yup :(
19:58 drojf "i get visitors" -- "my information is outdated" -- "but i get visitors" …
19:58 jcamins What about "okay, then, update your damn guide so that it doesn't result in broken systems."
19:59 JoeLib001 Hehe. ;-)
19:59 drojf "but i'm not interested in koha anymore" -- "but i get visitors"
19:59 jcamins lol
20:04 Shane-S joined #koha
20:05 drojf he has an "about"-page, a "contact"-page that is the same "about"-page and we should contact him via his website. for somebody doing business of some kind it seems like a weird contacting philosophy to not even have an email address somewhere
20:05 Shane-S quick question on the admin login screen it defaults to "My Library" in the bottom drop down. Can I remove that so just the library(ies) we setup appear?
20:05 jcamins Shane-S: "My library" is a synonym for "the library that my user is attached to."
20:07 Shane-S okay, but is it something I can remove for my user who might not understand that?
20:07 jcamins Shane-S: I believe you can use intranetuserjs to do that.
20:07 oleonard Shane-S: If you remove it your user will always have to choose their library manually
20:07 oleonard Shane-S: I don't think that's easier.
20:07 jcamins Yes, but better to just tell them what "My library" means.
20:07 jcamins Good point, oleonard.
20:07 Shane-S ah okay, I will just say "ignore it" then :P
20:08 jcamins You'll have everyone checking things out from the wrong library by default.
20:08 oleonard Shane-S: You are running a multi-branch system?
20:08 Shane-S We only have 1 Library is why I asked
20:08 jcamins Right, so don't worry about that box.
20:08 oleonard Won't turning on singlebranchmode remove that box?
20:09 Shane-S I "may" add a small building lending library down the road
20:09 jcamins oleonard: yeah, but doesn't it break holds or something?
20:09 * oleonard doesn't know
20:09 Shane-S but for now it is just our main school library, then I will look into adding faculty books/videos to keep track of them
20:11 Shane-S well thanks very much for the help, I will be back often soon as I have to begin getting this system live
20:11 chris_n` joined #koha
20:11 Shane-S I at least cut my install down from 1 day to 4 hours to 2 hours. Packages are lovely and knowing what to fix ahead of time helps :)
20:15 * drojf sent an email to the blog guy
20:16 drojf "I'll be away from work through Friday 7/27 and will be checking my work email only infrequently. Once I return to work I'll get back to you as soon as I'm able."
20:16 oleonard Did you tell him we were coming over there to rough him up?
20:16 rangi lol
20:17 drojf heh
20:17 rangi check this our
20:17 rangi out even
20:18 rangi
20:18 oleonard What are the scores based on?
20:19 rangi each build gets a score allocated
20:19 rangi build 790 for master, got 3 points
20:19 chris_n` joined #koha
20:19 rangi you get 1 point for each new test that passes
20:19 rangi -10 for breaking a build
20:19 jcamins Humbug.
20:19 jcamins I'll never get any points.
20:20 rangi -1 for every test that fails
20:20 rangi increasing testing coverage gets points
20:20 wizzyrea well
20:20 rangi so you should get points for that
20:20 wizzyrea what about 2 steps forward, one step back
20:20 wizzyrea :P
20:20 wizzyrea so +2 for a new test
20:20 wizzyrea -1 for breaking something
20:20 rangi yep
20:20 rangi the build would be worth 1 at that point
20:20 * wizzyrea likes forward momentum
20:21 rangi http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]aster/790/cigame/
20:21 rangi tells you the score for each build
20:21 jcamins Okay, time to head home.
20:23 rangi just some silliness, but silliness makes life enjoyable :)
20:23 cait too true :)
20:23 cait why would a library want stop words?
20:24 cait I mean seriously
20:24 rangi habit
20:24 cait what is the point of having a list of words that is not searchable??
20:24 rangi well stop words for sorting
20:24 rangi that makes sense
20:24 cait yes
20:24 cait but you do that with non filing characters normally
20:24 chris_n` joined #koha
20:24 cait or with indicators
20:24 * rangi points stacy to the thread with brooke and jcamins
20:24 cait not with a list
20:25 drojf isn't she using ll anyway?
20:26 * oleonard wonders if Stacy reads the list when she's not posting to it
20:26 rangi yes, she is
20:26 rangi not by choice tho
20:26 cait hm
20:28 oleonard The real question is why she thinks having stopwords would help. Sounds like an unresolved searching problem.
20:28 rangi their system is broken
20:28 rangi we all know that
20:29 oleonard True. Did they mess up the searching as well?
20:29 rangi it's their MO
20:29 rangi it's what they do
20:29 rangi searching, circulation, virtual shelves, peoples lives
20:32 drojf it probabyl won't fix anything if they do it the ll way
20:32 drojf probably even
20:37 chris_n` joined #koha
20:37 wizzyrea stacy is from waldo though?
20:40 rangi yup
20:40 chris_n` joined #koha
20:40 rangi but its to replace zebra ... they are koha 2009 stage still
20:41 drojf must be fun
20:41 drojf i know a blog that might fit their installation needs ;)
20:41 oleonard Just imagine how much more behind they'd be if they weren't so agile.
20:41 rangi (in terms of zebra/solr that is)
20:41 cait lol
20:42 cait hey, they are already at version 4
20:42 rangi 5 now
20:42 cait !
20:42 cait since when?
20:43 drojf that reminds me, what about koha release names? we should really have this
20:43 rangi liblime academic koha 5.0
20:44 cjh rangi: shouldnt that be liblime academic KOHA 5.0?
20:44 rangi for major versions?
20:44 rangi we could do that
20:44 cjh koha 3.9.0 'awesome'
20:44 drojf koha 3.10 'fancy fried fudge'
20:44 cjh haha
20:45 * oleonard heads out
20:45 drojf lol i like how the last commit in docs is from rangi, 3 years ago @ link
20:45 oleonard see ya #koha
20:45 libsysguy well I guess animals are taken as well as deserts
20:45 wizzyrea bye oleonard
20:45 * wizzyrea appreciates that he waited
20:46 gaetan_B joined #koha
20:47 drojf libsysguy: boring stuff like icecream sandwhich is taken. if we come up with a cool recipe per version that would work i think
20:47 chris_n` joined #koha
20:47 libsysguy a recibe
20:47 libsysguy like 3.10 Koha 'BBQ Ribs'
20:48 libsysguy on an unrelated note I kind of want to discuss changing the way Koha::Calendar works
20:48 libsysguy anybody up to pointing out some mistakes im about to make :p
20:48 * libsysguy thinks everyone should run away heh
20:50 rangi write the tests first
20:50 rangi then write the code to pass those tests
20:51 rangi and ill be happy
20:51 libsysguy haha
20:51 * libsysguy is here to make rangi happy
20:51 libsysguy if rangi ain't happy…aint nobody happy
20:51 libsysguy ^^ with the thickest southern drawl you can imagine
20:51 rangi but seriously starting with  a test plan, and a unit test ... means we are way less likely to cause more issues than we fix
20:52 drojf oh we do it the other way around now? :P
20:53 libsysguy well I was going to start with a way to represent in in the database
20:53 libsysguy but you think a testing plan is still the way to go
20:53 rangi yes
20:54 rangi knowing what you want the data to do
20:54 rangi should influence representation
20:54 rangi not the other way round
20:54 libsysguy ok
20:54 rangi ie, if we know how we want it to work, we can build a data structure that enables it
20:54 libsysguy haha
20:55 rangi and its a pretty well contained, well defined area
20:55 chris_n` joined #koha
20:55 cait it's only calendars cause headaches
20:55 rangi also, this must have been done before
20:55 libsysguy well after the foo bar that hourly was I suppose it does need to be started with tests :p
20:55 cait well to me at least :)
20:56 drojf was?
20:56 drojf is it fixed now?
20:56 libsysguy lol drojf it will never be fixed
20:56 rangi yeah calendars, closing and opening times, those are where the current issues occur
20:56 libsysguy im working on closing/opening times
20:57 libsysguy thats why im pestering atm lol
20:57 rangi but that should be easily testable
20:57 rangi also
20:57 rangi[…]3/lib/DBD/
20:57 libsysguy well that is handy
20:57 rangi we dont even need to populate a db with holidays or opening and closing times etc
20:57 rangi we can mock that up
20:58 rangi and test that we still get the correct due_dates, or fines leveled
20:58 libsysguy we don't use DBIx::Class do we
20:59 rangi indirectly yes
20:59 libsysguy but not in a way that I could write a Class for a DB object
20:59 libsysguy that is what I have been doing in catalyst
21:00 libsysguy so sometimes I get them mixed up
21:00 rangi you could
21:00 rangi the solr code uses moose
21:00 libsysguy oh moose
21:00 chris_n` joined #koha
21:01 rangi frankly is still just prefer class::accessor
21:01 rangi but to each their own
21:01 libsysguy I want that to be an acrynom that comes out to the equivalent of "Every module under the sun"
21:01 rangi but by using moose, dbix::class is in there
21:01 rangi so its available to be used
21:02 libsysguy ok, im not sure how far I want to chase that :p
21:02 rangi you probably want to talk to jcamins tho, as RM in waiting
21:02 libsysguy I've pinged him some
21:03 libsysguy but not as in depth as I am here heh
21:03 rangi as long as its not slow, is well documented and tested, you coudl write it in swahili
21:03 rangi as far as i care
21:03 libsysguy heh
21:03 chris_n` joined #koha
21:03 libsysguy chris_n seriously :p
21:13 chris_n` joined #koha
21:14 drojf cait: with that syspref you can never know
21:14 cait it's time to kill it
21:17 chris_n` joined #koha
21:19 limon_away joined #koha
21:20 jcamins libsysguy is using DBD::Mock?
21:20 jcamins Woohoo!
21:20 jcamins libsysguy++
21:22 jcamins Oh, no, but at least he's planning to write tests first. :)
21:23 libsysguy haha yeah I am working on the tests
21:23 libsysguy im trying to decide if I want to continue on the path of numbering off days/hours/minutes in an array :-/
21:23 jcamins Uhhh...
21:24 jcamins Hm.
21:24 libsysguy I don't want an array of 60 in the db just hogging up rows
21:24 libsysguy so the perl part of the test is easy
21:25 libsysguy representing that data is hard
21:25 jcamins Right.
21:25 libsysguy so i am scouring the internet for a good calendar schema so I can have a way to model my data in perl
21:26 libsysguy too bad I can't just interface with google calendar p
21:27 jcamins Hehe.
21:27 libsysguy I mean…i could…there is a module for that
21:27 libsysguy but you need a google account
21:27 drojf no google in my koha
21:27 jcamins Actually, you might want to look at the data structure used by programs that interface with ICS.
21:28 libsysguy if I could just use the data structure that Date::Manip uses I think i'd be good
21:28 libsysguy but rangi might stroke
21:28 jcamins Why?
21:28 wizzyrea stroke what
21:28 libsysguy have you ever used date manip
21:28 jcamins wizzyrea: have one, I think. ;)
21:28 cait good night all :)
21:28 libsysguy looks at wizzyrea with "the look"
21:28 wizzyrea libsysguy?
21:28 wahanui libsysguy is Koha's hottest developer or partying with swedes on his deck
21:28 * wizzyrea nods
21:29 libsysguy hehe
21:29 wizzyrea :)
21:29 wizzyrea i love you guys.
21:29 libsysguy we love you back wizzyrea
21:31 jcamins Any French speakers around?
21:32 jcamins I believe the proper definite article for the French word The is "le" but it'd be nice to have confirmation without needing to get my French dictionary from the other room.
21:33 drojf le is male, la is female
21:33 drojf les is plural
21:33 drojf oh
21:33 drojf reading skills
21:33 drojf i lack them
21:33 drojf nevermind
21:33 rangi Date::Manip is big slow, and slow, also did i say slow, the author themself says dont use it
21:34 jcamins Sorry, I should have said that irssi is currently refusing Unicode input.
21:34 libsysguy haha yeah he is like…dude its slow
21:34 drojf jcamins: but it's le thé
21:34 libsysguy awesome…but slow
21:34 jcamins Woohoo!
21:34 jcamins Thanks.
21:35 trea joined #koha
21:35 trea hi koha - question about the AllowHoldDateInFuture syspref - at that point to future hold requests enter into the holds queue?
21:36 trea that should read "at what point in the future do hold requests"
21:37 rangi as soon as the futuredate is less than now
21:37 trea got it thx
21:37 trea rangi++
21:52 trea left #koha
22:01 rangi http://fullfathomcollections.b[…]-libx-plugin.html <-- quite cool
22:06 rangi i guess i ought to get coffee
22:06 rangi :)
22:06 rangi brb
22:06 * jcamins goes to get his veggies.
22:11 rangi jcamins++ # good reply
22:11 rangi lucky wahanui tracks karma too
22:11 rangi karma for jcamins
22:11 wahanui jcamins has karma of 327
22:22 limon_away left #koha
22:26 kathryn joined #koha
22:54 papa joined #koha
23:00 jcamins_away karma for rangi
23:00 wahanui rangi has karma of 381
23:00 jcamins_away Hehe... much better chance of catchin up to people.
23:00 jcamins_away karma for huginn
23:00 wahanui huginn has karma of 4
23:00 jcamins_away karma for wahanui
23:00 wahanui wahanui has karma of 12
23:16 chris_n` joined #koha
23:31 dcook joined #koha
23:32 dcook Morning #koha
23:32 rangi morning dcook
23:33 dcook By chance, rangi, do you recall what that script is to handle the de-952ing of records from 3.2?
23:34 jcamins misc/
23:34 rangi thats it
23:34 rangi unless you are using package
23:34 rangi s
23:34 dcook Excellent. Merci, beaucoup
23:34 dcook Nope. No packages
23:36 dcook Whoa, comma splice...
23:36 * dcook shudders

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