IRC log for #koha, 2012-06-28

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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01:57 Oak Ahoy me hearties
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03:29 * chris_n looks around for someone to disambiguate "normal" for him
04:05 Oak joined #koha
04:06 Oak magnuse
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04:11 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
04:12 mtompset Has anyone ever encountered a " Premature end of script headers:" before?
04:35 Oak joined #koha
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05:20 mveron Good daytime #koha
05:20 mveron koha-error_log: File does not exist: /koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/img/famfamfam/PR.png
05:20 mveron referrer is: (...)koha/catalogue/
05:45 cait joined #koha
05:45 cait good morning #koha
05:46 Oak good morning miss cait
05:46 cait hello mr oak :)
05:47 Oak :)
05:52 dcook Hi Cait! Thanks again for that link to the jQuery library. It's been very helpful.
05:53 cait dcook: :)
05:54 mveron Hi cait :-)
05:54 cait hi mveron :)
05:55 mveron Koha complains about missing image file (...) famfamfam/PR.png
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06:20 ropuch Good morning
06:27 cait mveron: hm, maybe it accidently got removed while tidying up?
06:27 cait it looks like one of he small images used in the xslt
06:28 mveron It seems to be related to AV-Medien I suppose. What media type would PR stand for?
06:29 laurence joined #koha
06:29 mveron translation typo in xslt?
06:29 cait it's a possibility
06:29 cait does it work for english and has the same name?
06:30 * mveron will have a look (later)
06:32 cait some strings of the xslt files show up in translations - it's really possible there is a mistake there
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06:41 cait ok, bbl
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06:44 francharb hi
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06:48 reiveune hello
06:48 wahanui hi, reiveune
06:53 * mveron has the head away
06:56 matts hi !
07:08 paul_p joined #koha
07:10 clrh hello
07:14 sandeepbhavsar joined #koha
07:14 sandeepbhavsar dear all I would like to delete one branchlibrary and the entire record of it
07:15 asaurat joined #koha
07:16 sandeepbhavsar kindly guide
07:16 asaurat hi
07:18 gaetan_B joined #koha
07:18 gaetan_B hello :)
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07:33 paul_p good morning #koha
07:38 mtompset bonjour, paul_p
07:38 mtompset I think I found an ugly query lurking in the bowels of Koha.
07:39 mtompset And it is a memory sucker!
07:39 mtompset Home -> Reports -> Items Lost
07:39 mtompset If you have a lot of lost items... you get a ugly 500 page back.
07:40 mtompset Turns out GetLostItems in C4::Items has a select * on a join with items, biblio, biblioitems, and authorised_values.
07:46 kf joined #koha
07:50 kf hi #koha
07:52 laurence joined #koha
07:54 paul_p hi mtompset & kf & others
07:56 kf good morning paul_p
08:10 hdl hi paul_p rangi anyone on 3.8 maintenance ?
08:11 hdl CHI is integrated in 3.8 ?
08:12 kf I think rangi is travelling - he was at the airport yesterday
08:13 hdl kf are you using latest 3.8 ?
08:13 kf no, not yet
08:13 kf hdl: I think jcamins_away would know - but it's a bit too early for him right now
08:18 hdl guess so
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08:36 gaetan_B has anyone been having problems with the author facet in 3.8 ?
08:37 gaetan_B it's corretly generated, but i never get results after clicking on an author name
08:37 kf gaetan_B: what does the link look like?
08:38 gaetan_B kf: cgi-bin/koha/,phr:P​ERIO&sort_by=relevance&limit=au:Kaminsky,%20Jean
08:40 kf hmm
08:41 * dcook wonders if it's an indexing issue rather than a code issue
08:42 gaetan_B hmm if no one here has encountered it, then it's probably somewhere in my configuration
08:42 gaetan_B and indexing does sound like a very good candidate indeed ;)
08:43 kf hm yeah
08:43 kf but the records are found
08:43 kf it's a bit weird
08:43 kf gaetan_B: I have no 3.8.x installation I can access right now - maybe a bit later today
08:43 kf working on my new vm :)
08:43 * gaetan_B on the phone
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08:52 dcook Now that I look at it, I don't understand that link structure at all :S. How was that link produced?
08:53 kf dcook: I think it's a link from the facets
08:54 mtompset Sorry, we're using 3.6.3
08:54 mtompset haven't upgraded yet.
08:54 dcook I have a 3.8.x install up right now, and the facets don't make links like that
08:54 kf interesting
08:54 wahanui well, interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
08:55 dcook[…]rahame,%20Kenneth.
08:55 kf dcook: but you are using MARC21, right?
08:55 dcook Hmm, didn't mean to include the full link there...
08:55 dcook Yep. MARC21
08:55 kf gaetan_B: is probably using Unimarc
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08:56 dcook I don't imagine that would change the link though.
08:56 kf the links do not look verydifferent
08:56 kf I think it might depend on what your first search was thaat brought you to the result list
08:56 dcook The top one is missing the "idx" index
08:56 dcook Hmm, maybe
08:56 dcook I am missing part of that original link due to a smiley face that comes up in my IRC client
08:57 kf probably translates to : p
08:58 dcook It still seems weird that there would be two limits and no reference to the index
09:01 dcook Ahh, wait. There I think I see how a person could get there...
09:04 kf gaetan_B: I could only test 3.6.3 - there the link works for me
09:04 kf /cgi-bin/koha/​q=israel%20studies&limit=au:Neusner,​%20Jacob&limit=au:Neusner,%20Jacob
09:05 dcook I got this link to work as well:     /cgi-bin/koha/,ph​r:BK&sort_by=relevance&limit=au:Till,%20David.
09:05 dcook kf you mentioned that records were did you determine that, when gaetan_B said that there were no results?
09:06 kf I did a search and clicked on the link :)
09:06 dcook I figure that there are either no PERIO item types with author Jean Kaminsky, or the indexing needs to be re-run
09:06 kf and I had results
09:06 kf dcook: for the facets the result list is parsed... there should be resulsts I think
09:07 dcook Right!
09:07 dcook *facepalm*
09:07 magnuse Oak
09:07 kf dcook: don't worry, if we were using facets in a different way it could be the index
09:09 mtompset Anyone care to look at C4::Items GetLostItems and confirm that the SELECT is a horrendous SELECT *?
09:09 dcook Thanks, kf. I admit that I'm stumped and it's 7pm here, so I should call it a day :p
09:10 mtompset You should have stopped an hour ago for supper. ;)
09:11 * dcook nods and looks lookingly out the window towards the shops
09:11 dcook longingly* OK, it's been a long day. Gotta go. Good luck with GetLostItems, mtompset!
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09:32 mtompset That's a lot of name changing, chris_n. :)
09:33 mtompset bug 8329
09:33 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8329 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , GetLostItems in has a SELECT *
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09:55 * gaetan_B just finished his phone call
09:56 gaetan_B kf: thanks for the input, i'll keep investigating...
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10:36 marcelr hi #koha
10:37 drojf1 hey marcelr
10:39 kf_lunch hi marcelr :)
10:39 marcelr hi drojf1 kf
10:42 slef hi all
10:42 marcelr hi slef
10:43 slef is rangi or anyone who can put back up awake?
10:44 kf_lunch rangi is travelling - was at the airport yesterday
10:44 eythian he's off training.
10:45 eythian also, it's 12:43am there
10:45 eythian if we host it, I might be able to make it work.
10:47 eythian ah no, it's a googly thing apparently. I have no idea how that works.
10:48 eythian 10:43am rather
10:48 eythian so he could be I suppose
10:49 * mtompset waves bye.
10:49 kf_lunch I think someone talked about moving it
10:49 kf_lunch from the server where it used to be - maybe a domain thing?
10:50 eythian I dunno
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10:58 slef oh well - I was trying to point someone at a talk from kohacon10 - would be nice to have it back some time. Do you think rangi knows about it or should I ask someone else?
11:00 kf_lunch hm maybe we can find the talk?
11:00 kf_lunch I think they were not on the same server, the video recordings
11:01 eythian slef: I dunno. Can't hurt to ask him, he'll at least know who to pass it on to.
11:03 slef kf_lunch: I think recordings were on by anitsirk
11:03 slef kf_lunch: thanks for the reminder :)
11:04 magnuse
11:04 slef @later tell rangi could you put back or pass me on, please?
11:04 huginn slef: The operation succeeded.
11:04 slef eythian: thanks
11:12 jcamins hdl1: CHI is integrated into 3.10, but not 3.8 yet.
11:13 jcamins I am not sure if rangi is going to be backporting it.
11:23 jcamins Probably not.
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11:44 jcamins hdl1: it isn't fully integrated into 3.10 yet. dpavlin is working on a patch.
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11:49 mtompset Hello, #koha
11:49 mtompset While hunting for my GetLostItems bug, I discovered a problem... the server is continually running out of memory.
11:50 jcamins mtompset: how much RAM does the server have?
11:50 mtompset 512MB
11:50 jcamins That would be your problem.
11:50 mtompset So all our zebra indexing problems might be a memory problem too.
11:51 jcamins Probably not.
11:51 mtompset Considering a DB dump is 300MB+
11:51 jcamins Wait, how many records do you have?
11:51 jcamins I thought you had a large database.
11:51 mtompset Large for us.
11:51 mtompset Probably not for you. :)
11:51 jcamins I think maybe I got you confused with someone else.
11:51 mtompset I think there is just over 39K items.
11:52 jcamins So, pretty small.
11:52 jcamins 512MB won't be enough for production, but that should be fine for testing.
11:52 jcamins The problem is that Apache uses a lot of RAM.
11:52 mtompset stopped apache and mysql 468MB free...
11:52 jcamins The problem's Apache.
11:52 jcamins Without any doubt.
11:52 mtompset restarted them 367MB free.
11:53 kf mtompset: how are you indexing your records?
11:53 jcamins If MySQL is using too muchof your RAM, it means that you have MySQL configured wrong.
11:53 mtompset And there seemed to be a bit of a memory leak too.
11:54 jcamins Right, that memory leak is Apache. ;)
11:55 mtompset test?
11:55 * wahanui does a testing dance
11:55 mtompset :(
11:55 mtompset I forgot the / issue.
11:55 mtompset /usr/share/koha/bin/migrat​ion_tools/ -b -a -r
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11:57 mtompset But jcamins, that's like 1MB leak per OPAC query... at least for a few of them.
11:57 jcamins mtompset: each time Apache is started, it uses ~25MB.
11:57 jcamins (I think)
11:57 jcamins One Apache process is started for every single HTTP request.
11:58 jcamins Eventually they end, and your memory usage goes down, but on a system with 512MB/RAM, they'll deadlock and explode first.
11:59 mtompset I was going to suggest bumping it up to 1GB... It's a VM, and our host provider might not like going higher.
11:59 jcamins 1GB should work pretty well.
12:01 mtompset Actually, I was trying to figure the memory use per query... it's somewhere between 40 and 50MB.
12:01 mtompset Of course, perhaps that is because of our named host setup.
12:01 jcamins I'd believe it.
12:01 mtompset both are port 80.
12:01 jcamins That's how I have mine set up, too.
12:02 jcamins My 25MB was from memory. I could easily be off by a factor of two.
12:03 jcamins paul_p: have I convinced you on bug 6557 yet?
12:03 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6557 normal, P3, ---, jcamins, Passed QA , biblioitems.totalissues unused
12:04 marcelr :-)
12:04 paul_p jcamins in fact, I'll push the patch, but I consider it's a dirty one. But as there is a lot of dirtyness in this area, it would require too much effort -from far !- to do it another way
12:04 jcamins paul_p: agreed.
12:04 jcamins As I said, my ideal would be to only do the update on indexing, but that's not really an option until 3.14
12:05 hdl1 jcamins: ok /me saw that.
12:05 mtompset What happens on 3.14?
12:05 jcamins mtompset: we've had DOM long enough that I can start removing features that work around GRS-1's limitations.
12:06 mtompset So, 3.14 we remove GRS-1 completely?
12:06 jcamins At least, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)
12:06 jcamins mtompset: hey, a man can dream. :)
12:07 mtompset I fear to ask, but curious demands it... What is GRS-1?
12:07 jcamins The indexing schema that Zebra uses.
12:07 jcamins Starting with 3.10, DOM will be available.
12:07 jcamins DOM actually works. :)
12:07 magnuse mtompset:
12:08 mtompset A quick skim brings fear! That was a standard?
12:09 jcamins Well... I don't know that "standard" is quite the right word.
12:09 mtompset Okay... the way they did it.
12:09 jcamins Right. They had the good sense to deprecate it about five years ago.
12:10 mtompset And we still have it in Koha?!
12:11 mtompset (well, work arounds for it)
12:11 jcamins As far as I can tell, it was introduced into Koha after it was deprecated, actually... I'm not sure why.
12:11 jcamins However, 3.10 is ushering in a glorious new era of DOM and solr.
12:12 mtompset probably because there was more documentation back then.
12:12 mtompset it's all about the documentation.
12:12 jcamins Yes, that would make sense.
12:13 mtompset a perfect programming language will never be used unless it is documented. :)
12:13 mtompset What is solr?
12:13 wahanui i heard solr was fast
12:14 jcamins It is that, yes.
12:14 jcamins It's a different indexing engine:
12:14 mtompset wait a second...
12:14 mtompset you were just harping on Apache for seeming memory leaks.
12:15 mtompset Is solr an apache innovation?
12:15 jcamins It's not httpd that's leaking.
12:15 jcamins It's the Apache processes.
12:16 jcamins It's not actually leaking, per se.
12:16 jcamins It's just that it loads a staggering amount into memory every time it receives a query.
12:16 mtompset It's not getting garbage collected quickly.
12:16 jcamins Right.
12:16 jcamins On an infinitely fast system with an infinite amount of RAM, RAM usage would actually stay quite low. :)
12:17 mtompset Mmm.... reminds me of "the god chip" discussions I had in university.
12:17 mtompset There are two versions...
12:17 mtompset One is all-knowing statically.
12:18 mtompset There other is apparently all-knowing, because it is infinitely fast.
12:19 mtompset Low Ram usage implies the latter. ;)
12:21 mtompset So, in terms of solr, does that mean the zebra pieces will disappear?
12:21 jcamins Possibly eventually.
12:21 jcamins However, not until the solr implementation is entirely mature.
12:22 jcamins Also, there needs to be some option for relatively low memory systems.
12:23 mtompset The only reason I discovered this memory issue while hunting for an inexplicable bug in GetLostItems.
12:23 mtompset Turns out that C4::Items GetLostItems needs to be patched.
12:23 mtompset It has a SELECT *
12:23 mtompset on items, biblio, and biblioitems, and authorised_values.
12:24 mtompset bug 8329
12:24 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8329 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , GetLostItems in has a SELECT *
12:24 kf mtompset: you can write a patch :)
12:24 mtompset Can't... don't have a git source.
12:24 mtompset I made a suggestion.
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12:25 alex_a1 bonjour
12:25 wahanui bonjour, alex_a1
12:25 jcamins_mib joined #koha
12:25 jcamins_mib I need to switch servers. This host has been having serious connectivity issues.
12:25 mtompset I know the bug is still in 3.6.6
12:25 mtompset even though I'm working with 3.6.3
12:25 jcamins_mib You should submit a patch for GetLostItems if it hasn't been fixed yet.
12:26 jcamins_mib Bug 8329
12:26 jcamins_mib Oh, you reported it.
12:26 jcamins_mib Excellent.
12:26 mtompset If I can't patch, I can at least write something.
12:26 jcamins_mib Now you just need to patch it!
12:26 jcamins_mib Aw, you can do it!
12:27 mtompset I've got a bash scripting fest to finish.
12:27 mtompset I don't like git.
12:27 jcamins_mib Given how many bugs everyone already has on their lists, it'll probably wait for you. :)
12:27 jcamins_mib Oh, that's just 'cause you haven't made friends yet.
12:27 jcamins_mib git?
12:27 wahanui well, git is[…]Control_Using_Git
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12:28 jcamins_mib It is about a million times more pleasant to use than CVS.
12:28 mtompset I fixed it in my system. :P
12:29 jcamins_mib And when you upgrade (which you are going to want to do), it'll break again.
12:29 jcamins_mib Ask Waylon about this.
12:29 mtompset So far, it's been a small number. :)
12:29 schuster joined #koha
12:29 jcamins_mib (he isn't here now)
12:29 schuster But I am!
12:29 jcamins_mib schuster! Good morning.
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12:31 mtompset Well, one of my bugs got patched current. :)
12:31 mtompset Yes, but the patch I'd give wouldn't be perfect... it would be functional.
12:32 jcamins_mib Hint: functional is better than not.
12:34 mtompset And if I write bug reports, then I know which one's I have to fix again on an upgrade. ;)
12:35 jcamins_mib Lots of people have had this thought.
12:35 jcamins_mib Believe me, they *all* end up on #koha asking for help with their code.
12:36 drojf i never do
12:36 drojf :D
12:36 jcamins_mib drojf: don't you use git?
12:36 drojf i do
12:37 drojf i probably dont know what you are actually talking about since i just came in ;)
12:37 jcamins_mib My point was that people who _don't_ use git need help reconciling their changes.
12:37 mtompset I don't. :P I'm not the average person. ;)
12:38 mtompset Of course... we'll see how that holds up on an upgrade. :)
12:38 jcamins_mib Just so long as you understand that not only is this a case of "I cannot help you," this is a case of "I will not help you."
12:38 mtompset Oooo... tough love? I feel it. :)
12:39 mtompset I don't have the disk space on my netbook to set up the git test environment. :(
12:39 drojf use a real computer? :P
12:40 jcamins_mib Or a raspberry pi.
12:40 wahanui well, a raspberry pi is arm-based
12:40 drojf but seriously, git is great, and i just started using it and probably do not even know the cool stuff
12:40 drojf lol jcamins
12:40 kf drojf: you know you can ask :)
12:41 mtompset As for a real computer... I work on a donation basis.
12:41 kf well... I probably don't know the cool stuff, but I love git :)
12:41 mtompset So, if you donate, I'll get a real computer. :)
12:41 schuster git is still a lot of magic in a box to me but it is cool!!
12:42 drojf mtompset: i really use a raspberry pi for development. its $35
12:42 * jcamins_mib is very jealous of drojf's raspberry pi. ;)
12:43 mtompset But they are back ordered for like month.
12:43 mtompset months.
12:43 jcamins That's why I'm jealous.
12:43 drojf i think they should have reached the end of that soon
12:44 drojf but i might be wrong
12:45 drojf mtompset: but you could also just put a 8gb usb flash thingy in the netbook? that should be <$10
12:47 eythian[…]o-cross-the-ocean <-- drojf
12:49 drojf hahaha thats fantastic
12:58 mtompset Thanks for the reminder, drojf
12:59 mtompset I'm setting something now.
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13:05 mtompset It's a slow USB thumb drive, but it should suffice for a koha setup.
13:06 mtompset And a reformat to NTFS from FAT.
13:07 eythian ext4 perhaps?
13:08 Waylon joined #koha
13:09 Waylon hiya all
13:09 Waylon How is Solr support coming in 3.8? and is it faster than zebrasrv? i find zebrasrv spending time in IO alot.
13:09 mtompset I'm under Windoze.
13:10 mtompset I'll be running Koha in a VM.
13:10 mtompset What is solr
13:10 wahanui well, solr is fast
13:10 julian_m joined #koha
13:10 Waylon yea, I know.. but how fast/
13:10 Waylon ?
13:11 eythian Waylon: I don't see zebra spending a lot of time on IO
13:11 Waylon solr is an alternative index and search engine than zebrasrv
13:11 eythian I find zebra to be quite fast
13:11 Waylon hmm...
13:11 drojf i think solr is expected to be in 3.10
13:11 Waylon its in master now though?
13:12 drojf is it pushed?
13:12 magnuse bug 8233
13:12 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8233 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , New search engine layer - introduce solr without breaking anything else
13:12 eythian I'm not sure if it's in master yet, I don't think it is quite
13:13 Waylon and yea, in iotop, ive seen zebrasrv instances hit 99% and stay for a bit.
13:13 Waylon under 10 concurrent users, 5 second delay between search batches
13:13 magnuse looks like solr is almost ready to pass qa
13:13 Waylon and an average of 15 seconds response time.
13:13 Waylon so.. yeah...
13:14 Waylon this is koha
13:14 kf 15 seconds??
13:14 eythian that is a bit older than my experience.
13:14 Waylon 15 seconds.
13:14 eythian But also a lot slower.
13:14 kf that's a lot
13:14 kf I haven't expereinced that
13:14 Waylon max of 25
13:14 Waylon so yea... not too happy about it.
13:15 kf but there might be another reason than zebra
13:15 eythian Running in a vm on a crappy netbook I got faster results than that.
13:15 kf I think solr is fast, but you have to feed it with hardware
13:15 eythian yeah
13:15 kf so probably would still be slow on old hardware
13:15 jcamins Waylon: hey, we were just talking about you.
13:15 Waylon this is on a quadcore xeon something.
13:16 Waylon hi jcamins
13:16 mtompset oh, that is something to begin the coveting. ;)
13:16 Waylon Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E31270 @ 3.40GHz
13:17 Waylon maybe i should throw more memory at it?
13:17 eythian how much do you have?
13:17 drojf maybe you should throw a newer version of koha at it
13:17 Waylon currently giving the vm's 4 gigs.
13:17 eythian how big is your zebra database?
13:17 eythian oh, it's in a VM
13:17 eythian is your VM being an IO bottleneck?
13:17 Waylon 3.5 gigs for the dev/update test servers
13:18 Waylon possibly.
13:18 Waylon no idea.
13:18 Waylon thats the big question.
13:18 eythian basically, if zebra is slow, I wouldn't expect solr to be better unless it's a configuration issue.
13:18 mtompset 3.5gigs?! Oh my... we have a SMALL database by comparison.
13:18 Waylon oh, the db? no.. i mean ram for the dev/update test server
13:18 jcamins Waylon: I would reiterate my earlier statement that optimizing is premature until you've moved to a version of Koha that is at least semi-modern.
13:19 Waylon what were you saying about me jcamins ?
13:19 Waylon and yeah.. i do keep reiterating that to my boss.
13:19 drojf semi-modern *giggles*
13:19 eythian Waylon: how big is your zebra database?
13:20 eythian typically they're not too far off being able to hold in RAM
13:20 jcamins Waylon: that you can confirm for mtompset how painful it is to not keep your code changes in version control.
13:20 * mtompset laughs, "I know you are right, jcamins."
13:20 Waylon oh hell yea
13:20 eythian yeah, don't do that.
13:20 eythian it's hard enough when your changes are in version control
13:20 eythian without making things worse
13:21 Waylon mtompset, if your finger waggled even a little bit, log it.
13:21 mtompset Okay, simple question... how do I export data from Koha?
13:21 eythian that's not a simple question :)
13:21 jcamins mtompset: what data?
13:21 wahanui somebody said data was here.
13:21 eythian what do you want to export?
13:22 Waylon entire zebradb lib directory, is 5.1 gig.
13:22 Oak joined #koha
13:22 * Oak waves
13:22 eythian no wahanui, data is the plural of datum, not anecdote.
13:22 mtompset not the setting, but all the data (items?)
13:22 wahanui okay, eythian.
13:22 Oak magnuse
13:22 Waylon 5.2.
13:22 eythian Waylon: you might benefit from giving it 8GB then, assuming you're on 64-bit.
13:23 mtompset There's a nice batchimport of MARC records.
13:23 eythian mtompset: in what way? marc or SQL dump?
13:23 jcamins mtompset: you can export the MARC records, or you could do a partial SQL dump. It depends what you want.
13:23 mtompset I'd like to go MARC, so I can transplant to a different version of Koha without worries of architecture.
13:23 Waylon hmm... the servers only have 8 gig a piece.. should i just ditch the vm's, go bare metal, and get a third machine for dev/upgrade test stuff?
13:23 Oak eythian: i was wondering, is using koha on a 64 bit deiban stable (just like on a 32bit system) or are there issues?
13:23 eythian mtompset: that doesn't sound like a reasonable reason :)
13:24 * Waylon is running koha 3.0.0pre2 on lenny 64bit
13:24 eythian Waylon: that might be not a bad idea
13:24 Waylon runs fine.
13:24 eythian Oak: there's no reason for 64 bit to have issues
13:24 mtompset hey... code differences I can tweak... DB differences are ever more hellish.
13:24 Oak okay got it
13:24 * mtompset laughs.
13:24 eythian it's the standard architecture these days :)
13:24 Oak :) okay cool
13:25 eythian mtompset: well, mysql dumps shouldn't be too different between mysql version, and koha handles upgrading koha versions.
13:25 jcamins Waylon: I guess it's possible that part of the problem is that 3.0.0-beta2  did weird things with Zebra, but I wouldn't count on it.
13:25 magnuse Oak
13:25 jcamins Oak: I only use Debian Squeeze 64-bit .
13:25 Oak jcamins!
13:25 wahanui jcamins is A-Grade developper on Koha willing to rewrite it from top to bottom. Good Luck jcamins
13:25 Oak thankyou
13:26 jcamins Oak!
13:26 mtompset I see where you are going eythian, but let's say MARC... I'd like to get my 3.6.3 data into a 3.8.2 system. :)
13:26 Waylon hmm.. though, disavantage with going bare metal, is its much harder to recover from. with VM's, its an easy DD onto the lvm partition, and then start up the vm.
13:26 Oak okay then, I'll start downloading 64 bit debian now
13:26 jcamins mtompset: the upgrade works pretty much prefectly.
13:26 Waylon backing up is again, piece of cake. lvm snapshot.
13:26 jcamins Waylon: see above about premature optimization.
13:26 eythian Waylon: well then give your VM 7GB :)
13:26 eythian but, upgrade first
13:26 eythian it'll be worth it anyhow
13:27 jcamins Not just worth it.
13:27 jcamins It is necessary.
13:27 eythian mtompset: I think the export tool can do that.
13:27 mtompset So, I could mysqldump... create the DB's, and then do an upgrade install?
13:27 jcamins mtompset: right.
13:27 eythian in tools->export bibliographic...
13:27 eythian that's what I would do
13:27 eythian in fact, it's what I do do.
13:27 jcamins eythian is giving you the instructions for exporting MARC, but I'm lazy, and just dump the entire DB.
13:27 eythian yeah, I meant above that DB dumps is what I do do.
13:28 Waylon Waylon!
13:28 jcamins Waylon: tell your bosses that the performance issue is because of the version, and there's no way to improve it unless they shell out to get the local modifications integrated.
13:28 Waylon hahaha!
13:28 jcamins No, seriously.
13:28 jcamins You will not be wrong.
13:28 Waylon oh.. i thought that was the bot.
13:28 eythian hehe
13:28 jcamins lol
13:29 jcamins That would've been even cooler.
13:29 jcamins wahanui: Waylon is <reply>Waylon: tell your bosses that the performance issue is because of the version, and there's no way to improve it unless they shell out to get the local modifications integrated.5D
13:29 wahanui ...but waylon is the 33rd contributor to Koha. Currently works for
13:29 schuster I'm working on putting together a "FRESH" debian 3.8 install for development and when I get to the memcached server question do I still want to say no?  I have not played with that yet.
13:29 jcamins wahanui: no, Waylon is <reply>Waylon: tell your bosses that the performance issue is because of the version, and there's no way to improve it unless they shell out to get the local modifications integrated.
13:29 wahanui ...but waylon is the 33rd contributor to Koha. Currently works for
13:29 jcamins forget waylon
13:29 wahanui jcamins: I forgot waylon
13:29 jcamins wahanui: Waylon is <reply>Waylon: tell your bosses that the performance issue is because of the version, and there's no way to improve it unless they shell out to get the local modifications integrated.
13:29 wahanui OK, jcamins.
13:30 jcamins waylon
13:30 jcamins waylon!
13:30 jcamins Waylon
13:30 jcamins Waylon?
13:30 wahanui Waylon: tell wahanui's bosses that the performance issue is because of the version, and there's no way to improve it unless they shell out to get the local modifications integrated.
13:30 jcamins Oh well.
13:30 jcamins It's not perfect.
13:30 Waylon 33rd developer and im stranded in old code.
13:30 schuster you go jcamins!
13:30 * Waylon hasn't even looked at the new koha code.
13:30 mtompset What version are you running?
13:31 schuster Waylon - there are sooo many new features and functionality in Koha have you done a comparison of features to determine what you would have to "rebuild" vs what has already been integrated?
13:31 jcamins schuster: I use memcached in production, and have it configured on my development server, but manually shut it down when testing things.
13:31 Waylon koha with patches imported from later versions, without git updating.
13:31 jcamins (depending on what I'm testing)
13:31 schuster jcamins - is it hard to setup?  from what you just said I would probably not run it then in dev mode thanks.
13:31 Waylon so its a mess.
13:31 NateC joined #koha
13:31 jcamins schuster: super easy.
13:31 mtompset OH MY! !#!@$ That's horrid.
13:31 drojf Waylon: what local changes do you have that koha does not have now in some form that you rely on?
13:32 eythian Yeah, when I do a 3.4/3.6->3.8 upgrade, I usually cut the custom patches from 30 down to about 5.
13:33 eythian and those 5 are usually deal with client-specific CSS etc.
13:33 schuster Waylon - There are demos that you can look at on the koha community site for comparison without installing etc...  You know we all here are more than happy to respond as well to questions of current functionality.
13:33 jcamins Wait a minute! I've heard of mandumah.
13:34 ago43 joined #koha
13:34 jcamins :)
13:34 eythian jcamins: the wahanui update format is "no wahanui, something is something else"
13:35 jcamins Waylon: the following pages on the wiki are relevant to performance tuning, but not for 3.0:[…]Koha_Tuning_Guide,,
13:35 mtompset might lose connectivity...
13:35 jcamins Also,
13:35 Waylon okay.. lemme see... access restrictions based on ip range, referer, download urls that go to a opac-download page, count the number of downloads against the borrower (in our version of koha, a borrower represents all of a university), counts the number of logins that borrower does, ip range access blacklisting, hmm... abuse of the branch table to create seperate libraries, one can search all at once or just one of them, borrowers can be rest
13:35 Waylon ricted to certain branches...
13:35 kf @wunder Konstanz
13:35 huginn kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 27.8°C (3:30 PM CEST on June 28, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 54%. Dew Point: 18.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady).
13:35 Waylon I think theres some arabic mods also.
13:36 jcamins Waylon: so you need to add some analytics features to current Koha.
13:36 Waylon hmm?
13:36 Oak hello kf :)
13:36 jcamins What you described is done by Koha, other than the analytics.
13:36 schuster Waylon  - there has been a ton of development for right to left and Unicode that you could probably take advantage of now that were not in 3.0 and with PLACK and TT performance issues would dry up and you would be current on code.
13:36 Waylon our db is in utf8
13:36 mtompset abuse of the branch table?
13:37 jcamins I don't think *anything* in those four pages I sent you would be suitable for 3.0.
13:37 mtompset That sounds like what someone was talking about in the koha-developer list recently.
13:37 Waylon yeah. items belong to branches, or libraries.
13:37 jcamins mtompset: apparently back pre-3.0 it didn't work the way it does now?
13:37 * jcamins shrugs.
13:37 Waylon and zebra searches for stuff + limit by branch
13:37 mtompset If the current system isn't a VM, VM it.
13:38 jcamins So, basically you have hacked together a lot of Koha's current features.
13:38 mtompset Set up a newer system.
13:38 mtompset And then switch VM's once everyone is happy.
13:38 jcamins mtompset++ # this is the way to do it.
13:38 jcamins Waylon: all Koha DBs should be in utf-8. Koha does not like DBs in any character set other than utf-8.
13:39 maximep joined #koha
13:39 schuster hmmm I'm trying to setup this dev system and it keeps failing at "Tried to use 'Koha::Cache::Memcached'  "Tests were run but no plan was declared and done_testing() was not seen.  FAILED and stops.
13:39 schuster Suggestions?
13:39 wahanui Suggestions are broken at the moment - I can't accept those for German :(
13:39 Waylon the current system, vm'ed and load balanced, is responding only 94% of the time.
13:39 * mtompset nods.
13:40 Waylon thats not even including when we do the daily zebrasrv rebuild.
13:40 jcamins schuster: ./ -m
13:40 jcamins Or whatever it is.
13:40 jcamins You do a daily rebuild?
13:40 schuster comes up clear
13:40 jcamins Your system is broken.
13:40 eythian why do you do a daily rebuild?
13:40 jcamins Give up on this.
13:40 Waylon yeah. found that without it, zebra would break for some reason.
13:40 schuster jcamins - who are you talking to?  schuster or Waylon?
13:41 mtompset if you are using ubuntu, then you dselect the packages from the ubuntu list.
13:41 kf jcamins: I had the same problem with running the tests yesterday
13:41 jcamins I am not joking. There is no hope that you are going to be able to resolve this without upgrading to a version of Koha from within the last year.
13:41 kf jcamins: also lots of complaints about cachng when running make test
13:41 jcamins schuster: Waylon. I'm trying your problem.
13:41 jcamins schuster: I see no reason for hopelessness wrt the cache.
13:42 Waylon admittedly, it was some time ago that I found this out, maybe it was a problem with koha that i never fixed?
13:42 jcamins Quite possibly, but you are trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
13:42 mtompset to put it nicely.
13:42 jcamins *After* the sow's ear has already decomposed.
13:43 Waylon i think its going to take ages to get to modern koha... and boss is looking into OpenJournal or something.
13:44 Waylon PHP brainrot.
13:44 mtompset Why look into something else, when a newer FREE version of the existing software exists?
13:46 jcamins Waylon: to be honest, I think you'd be better off going to OpenJournal than insisting on using the mess you have now. :(
13:46 drojf joined #koha
13:46 kf mtompset: as I see it from the feature list Waylon is using koha not as an ILS
13:47 Waylon honestly, no, its more a digital library archive.
13:47 kf at least it looks like it :)
13:47 Waylon Of course, if they go to OJS, ill be out of a job.
13:48 schuster kf did you get your test to complete?
13:48 Waylon Meh.. prehaps too difficult a task, being stuck in this mess.
13:48 kf schuster: no, I just continued without completing it - but it's my test installation, so I can mess that up as much as I want :)
13:48 drojf Waylon: where do you work?
13:49 Waylon online part-time contracting, for
13:49 mtompset why would you be out of a job?
13:49 mtompset oh
13:49 Waylon well OJS is PHP.
13:49 schuster kf - so you just did the make install and went on and things mostly work?
13:49 Waylon and my god.... its a whole different philosophy
13:49 mtompset You aren't a salaried employee which could be expected to grow professionally and just do it.
13:50 drojf heh that site is a bit too much arabic for me to understand. but it's a university?
13:50 Waylon google translate does okay on it.
13:50 * eythian is not convinced moving to PHP is "growing"
13:50 Waylon no, its a digital services vendor.
13:50 drojf ok
13:50 Waylon flagship project is the digital library archive of thousands of arabic journals.
13:51 Waylon pdf format.
13:51 Waylon very nicely marc'ed up
13:51 drojf aaah you are the guy that wanted to encrypt the biblio ids or something a short time ago?
13:51 Waylon yea.
13:52 kf schuster: yes
13:52 Waylon or at least make them so someone can't just wget and increment biblio numbers to download the entire library.
13:52 kf schuster: I did not activate caching tho
13:52 kf but I did activate dom indexing and icu - looking forward to test it out :)
13:52 mtompset joined #koha
13:53 eythian Waylon: hash 'em with a secret
13:53 Waylon kf: caching? zebrasrv does caching?
13:53 eythian Waylon: memcache does caching
13:53 eythian though not in 3.0 :)
13:53 Waylon ahh yea
13:54 Waylon so yea, i see zebrasrv spending alot of time... perl spending alot of time, and by the time it gets back to the return, its sometimes too late.
13:55 eythian does iotop tell you anything useful>
13:55 eythian ?
13:55 Waylon zebrasrv spending alot of io time.
13:55 eythian it really shouldn't.
13:55 eythian How many records do you have?
13:55 Waylon register directory is 5.1 gigabytes
13:56 eythian yeah, but how many records do you have?
13:56 Waylon hmm.. no idea.
13:56 eythian is it proportional to the 5.1GB?
13:57 eythian I should expect ~250,000 records for that zebra size.
13:57 Waylon 162071 biblios
13:57 eythian OK, not too far off
13:57 Waylon each biblio has a biblioitems and at least one item.
13:58 Waylon and a very fleshed out marcxml
13:58 eythian yeah, I think the records I was comparing to are a bit smaller
13:59 Waylon I could adjust the vm's, give 6 gig each to koha vm, and only 1.5 gig each to the dev vms.
13:59 Waylon 2 gig make a big difference?
13:59 eythian Impossible to say
14:02 jcamins Waylon: not as big a difference as using a version of the system that we could help you with.
14:04 schuster kf thanks for the advice - I'm always hesitant to move forward even on my test system with "testing" doesn't complete.
14:04 kf schuster: no guarantees - I didn't figure out why it failed and it's only a dev system for me
14:04 kf schuster: so doesn't matter if I break it
14:05 jcamins I'll track down the problem when I can.
14:05 jcamins The problem is I can't seem to duplicate it.
14:05 jcamins Not even with pbuilder.
14:05 kf jcamins: perhaps because you have all modules installed?
14:05 kf I suspect I am missing a dependency
14:05 kf I didn't cpan the chi modules
14:06 * slef forms a dependency on kf... send me money :)
14:06 * mtompset smirks.
14:06 kf hey!
14:11 * mtompset has a musical flashback:
14:12 mtompset (The Beatles - Money)
14:14 mtompset Out of curiousity, if I submit patches to the bug reports that I made, will that speed them up in terms of getting processed through?
14:15 eythian very much so
14:16 jcamins yes.
14:16 kf yes
14:16 eythian otherwise you're waiting for someone to care enough to write a patch for you
14:16 jcamins If you don't submit patches, chances are the bugs won't go anywhere.
14:16 Waylon ^^
14:16 kf mtompset: most koha developers work for a koha support provider, so they spent time on things they get paid for first
14:16 * Waylon nods.
14:16 Waylon Sadly, im getting paid to work on an antique
14:17 jcamins I have 15 bugs assigned to me that don't have patches yet.
14:17 kf and he is writing patches like crazy :)
14:17 jcamins There are numerous others that I would like to work on.
14:17 * kf got a long list for testing!
14:17 kf yeah, it's also a big time problem
14:17 mtompset So, if I provide a patch, it is quite likely to speed up the process?
14:17 kf not that people don't want to fix bugs
14:17 kf mtompset: yes
14:18 kf mtompset: the next step is somone else testing your patch, than it moves on to qa if it's good and after that it pushed into Koha
14:18 jcamins If you provide a patch for a bug like this, there's a very good chance somewhere will test and sign off on it in the next two months.
14:18 jcamins The trick to encouraging that to happen is lots of cheerful reminders to people who care about related functionality.
14:18 * slef smiles at Waylon
14:18 * slef should be paid to replace some antiques next month
14:18 eythian jcamins: only 15? luxury!
14:19 jcamins eythian: I only assign bugs that I am *definitely* patching to myself.
14:19 eythian ah right :) I got lots by default
14:19 Waylon hmm? mandumah is not the only one to use old code, slef ?
14:20 magnuse paul_p recently did an upgrade from 2.2.x :-)
14:20 Waylon wow.
14:20 eythian I did one of those a year or two ago
14:20 * magnuse too
14:20 slef Waylon: indeed. Lots of places install koha and don't take out a support contract or allocate any of their own IT workers to do upgrades. If it works for them, that's fine. If it doesn't, it rather limits their support options.
14:21 Waylon okay.. data wise, whats the upgrade path from 3.0 to 3.8 like?
14:21 magnuse even hlt, the original koha library, was left behind for a looong time - it worked for them so why upgrade? :-)
14:21 tcohen joined #koha
14:22 magnuse hiya tcohen
14:22 tcohen hi magnuse
14:22 jcamins Waylon: very easy. Install new Koha version on different server. Load uold data.
14:22 jcamins Run upgrade scripts.
14:22 kf not to speak about libraries still installing 2.2 because it works on widows :(
14:22 * jcamins shudders.
14:22 jcamins kf: let's not speak about that, please. ;)
14:22 * magnuse shudders too
14:22 Waylon yes, i started with koha on windows.
14:22 Waylon it worked.
14:22 * wizzyrea giggles about working on widows.
14:22 magnuse hehe
14:23 * tcohen is setting a fat 12.04 VPS for upgrading our production kohas to 3.8.2
14:24 jcamins tcohen: remember that Ubuntu 12.04 has anonymous MySQL logins by default.
14:24 Waylon can one do the acquisitions using koha 3, and the opac servers etc using 3.8.2?
14:24 mtompset You mean 2.9 :P
14:24 tcohen jcamins, thanks for the advise
14:24 eythian packages apparentl have issues with Ubuntu 12.04. It's on my list to check.
14:24 tcohen we have a separate MySQL server
14:24 Waylon or would i have to get the production server updated too?
14:24 tcohen and a DBA that has tuned everything for safety
14:25 kf Waylon:  you are not doing acq on your prodcution server?
14:25 jcamins Waylon: well, yeah, you'd want to upgrade your production server. I meant, test it on another server first.
14:25 eythian Waylon: that sounds like a terrible idea, fyi.
14:25 eythian there's so much that could go wrong.
14:25 jcamins Wait, what?
14:25 wahanui well, Wait, is it only in items?
14:25 jcamins You want to do acquisitions on one version and OPAC with another?
14:25 jcamins That's the second-worst idea I've heard recently, sorry.
14:26 Waylon nope. biblio entries are being done on an office server, so called production server. so biblios, biblioitems, items, everything biblio related is being replicated over to the internet facing server.
14:26 eythian tcohen: well, the package issues apply to the database, so you're probably OK then
14:26 mtompset Oh, thanks for the reminder... I'll update the Koha on Ubuntu wiki with the DELETE FROM mysql.users where mysql.users='';
14:26 mtompset or whatever the appropriate SQL is.
14:26 Waylon oh, this is actually working well, jcamins
14:26 Waylon with koha 3.
14:26 eythian Waylon: yeah, but if you have different versions things will go badly I expect.
14:26 Waylon right.
14:27 eythian doing that on one version is ok
14:27 tcohen i'm really excited to go live with 3.8.2
14:27 Waylon suddenly, a bit bigger of a task.
14:27 tcohen our librarians are really happy after testing it
14:27 jcamins Waylon: having the same version on two servers is fine. Having different versions on two servers is not.
14:27 jcamins tcohen: you either don't charge fines, or are prepared to work around the fine bugs?
14:27 Waylon cause i have no idea how the marc and new biblio tables are different to the original 3.0
14:28 jcamins Different.
14:28 Waylon err.. that is new biblio entry <tables>
14:28 tcohen jcamins: we use suspension in days
14:28 tcohen and i'm prepared to tackle those bugs
14:28 jcamins tcohen: I think that's still working on 3.8, so you should be fine. :)
14:28 tcohen i even worked on the patches for those (signing, writing)
14:29 Waylon is there any chance you could write me an email i could forward to my boss, jcamins ?
14:29 eythian then you'll know the exact scope of the issue :)
14:30 eythian we are bringing some libraries up to 3.8.2, but those that don't do fines.
14:31 jcamins Waylon: I can summarize it very quickly: "There is no way you are going to be able to solve any of the problems you have run into while running a hacked version of a Koha version that is many years old and no one else remembers how to use. Koha has continued to improve over the last five years, but what you have has not."
14:33 tcohen 8GB RAM? 5 cores?
14:34 mtompset I just want a Asus Sabertooth Z77 with an i5-3550 and at least 4GB of Ram. :)
14:34 jcamins tcohen: they already have 4GB RAM and 4 cores.
14:35 jcamins mtompset: RAM is a way bigger issue than processor for Koha.
14:35 eythian mtompset: aiming low, my laptop is an i7 :)
14:36 tcohen we already have 32 koha's on a server using 8GB of RAM
14:36 tcohen the flow smoothly
14:36 tcohen (db on a separate server)
14:37 jcamins tcohen: that's why I think that there's nothing that Waylon can do other than upgrade.
14:37 hdl joined #koha
14:39 drojf Waylon: maybe send your boss in here for half an hour ;)
14:40 drojf we could sing, all together. the "upgrade to latest koha" song
14:41 Waylon current baremetal server is a 4 core 3.5 gb (32 bit kernel i think) machine.
14:41 Waylon hasn't skipped a beat.
14:41 Waylon of course, its never been siege tested.
14:41 Waylon is 10 users, 5 sec delay even a reasonable siege
14:41 Waylon ?
14:42 jcamins Waylon: you're using a prerelease of 3.0.0. We have absolutely no idea.
14:43 eythian Waylon: you are older than liblime koha
14:43 jcamins eythian: oooh. Good way of putting it.
14:43 Waylon man, thats saying something.
14:43 Waylon liblime--
14:54 Waylon okay, sent, with the suggestion that we baremetal one server, put our current koha on it, and dev on the other server, to bring us to koha 3.8, and then VM things.
14:55 Waylon going to regret baremetaling though.. managing a bare metal server via IMPI is time consuming.
14:56 mtompset IMPI?
14:57 Waylon INPI?
14:57 mtompset I don't what acronym you were aiming for, or the meaning of it. :)
14:58 Waylon the data center protocol/card that is a KVM
14:58 Waylon basically, an esoteric concept of VNC, at a hardware level.
14:59 mtompset Ah.
14:59 drojf left #koha
14:59 * mtompset cracks open the Mountain Dew.
14:59 mtompset Tonight... I tango with git.
15:00 magnuse yay, that sounds like a quote
15:01 mtompset Yes, but you missed the carbonation escaping the bottle as I opened it.
15:01 mtompset It had a bit of a zorro kind of voice.
15:02 jcamins @quote add "<mtompset> Tonight... I tango with git."
15:02 huginn jcamins: The operation succeeded.  Quote #208 added.
15:06 magnuse thanks jcamins
15:06 * magnuse never figured out how to register with huginn...
15:06 Waylon so yea, if ssh fails, if the bare metal koha refuses to boot, IMPI is the only way to gain access to the machine.
15:06 Waylon and yea.. SLOOOWWWWW
15:07 slef yeah we've at least one IMPI-using server... think I've used it once
15:07 mtompset Now I'm part of the Koha mythos. ;)
15:08 slef you don't want to do that if you can avoid it
15:08 eythian we prefer "truthos"
15:08 slef An Impi is an isiZulu word for any armed body of men. However, in English it is often used to refer to a Zulu regiment, which is called an ibutho in Zulu. The first impis were formed by Zulu king Shaka, who was then only the exiled illegitimate son of king Senzangakona, but already showing much prowess as a general in the army of Mthethwa king Dingiswayo in the Mthethwa...
15:08 slef errr, not what I meant :)
15:08 slef Intelligent Platform Management Interface (IPMI)
15:09 mtompset at least you didn't rm -rf your home directory over the weekend. :)
15:09 slef mtompset: backups++
15:09 mtompset That's what I was in the middle of scripting.
15:10 mtompset I forever will put -i on my rm's!
15:10 slef no you won't
15:10 slef you'll get annoyed soon
15:10 slef like everyone else who's said that
15:10 mtompset Yes, but for now... -i is my friend.
15:11 mtompset And I added "Are you sure you want to delete that? (y/n) " prompts to my scripts too.
15:11 mtompset No more accidental deletions. :)
15:11 hdl joined #koha
15:12 Waylon yeah. IPMI is a horror.
15:12 mtompset I just had another musical flash, slef.
15:13 Waylon slow, ugly, and you most likely need to use a complete ssh route proxy if you don't already have a ssh server on the same intranet.
15:13 mtompset
15:14 Waylon mtompset?
15:14 wahanui i guess mtompset is not.
15:14 mtompset (To All The Girls I've Loved Before) --- because you said "like everyone else who's said that"
15:14 Waylon mtompset, who are you?
15:14 mtompset A human being. :)
15:14 Waylon wahanui, mtompset is a human being
15:14 wahanui ...but mtompset is not....
15:14 mtompset I'm currently located in the Philippines.
15:15 mtompset forget mtompset
15:15 wahanui mtompset: I forgot mtompset
15:15 mtompset mtompset is having musical flashbacks.
15:15 Waylon mtompset is a human being in the Philippines, and is having musical flashbacks.
15:15 Waylon wahanui, mtompset is a human being in the Philippines, and is having musical flashbacks.
15:15 wahanui ...but mtompset is having musical flashbacks....
15:16 Waylon forget mtompset
15:16 wahanui Waylon: I forgot mtompset
15:16 Waylon wahanui, mtompset is a human being in the Philippines, and is having musical flashbacks.
15:16 wahanui OK, Waylon.
15:16 * mtompset laughs.
15:16 Waylon mtompset?
15:16 wahanui it has been said that mtompset is a human being in the Philippines, and is having musical flashbacks.
15:16 Waylon now your part of the koha community
15:16 mtompset Except that I don't get paid.
15:16 mtompset :)
15:17 mtompset @wunder MNL
15:17 huginn mtompset: The current temperature in Manila, Philippines is 26.0°C (11:00 PM PHT on June 28, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 25.0°C. Pressure: 29.71 in 1006 hPa (Steady).
15:17 kf mtompset: for which library are you working?
15:17 mtompset Looks like rain shortly.
15:18 kf mtompset: sorry, only curious :)
15:18 mtompset I don't work for a library, but rather an organization that does language development activities worldwide.
15:19 kf ah :)
15:19 mtompset We happen to have many libraries of materials, and Koha was chosen to be used.
15:19 kf cool :)
15:19 Waylon awesome
15:19 mtompset
15:19 Waylon would be cool if you were part of the google language preservation project...
15:20 mtompset Google is following in OUR footsteps. :P
15:20 Waylon hot damn, i was on the right track.
15:20 jcamins mtompset: oh, you work for SIL?
15:20 jcamins Awesome!
15:20 Waylon in fact, ive been to this website before.
15:20 * slef froths at the mention of the Google-opoly
15:20 mtompset Yes.
15:21 mtompset Is that anything like Monopoly? ;)
15:21 Waylon i was doing aspergers driven research on the Ainu language.
15:21 Waylon i think sil came up on wiki as a citation prehaps.
15:22 mtompset quiet likely. SIL is involved in many language projects.
15:22 mtompset They also partner with other organizations as well.
15:23 Waylon okay.
15:23 Waylon time for me to pack myself into bed i think.
15:23 mtompset Bed?! That's what the Mountain Dew is for... No rest for the wicked. ;)
15:23 mtompset I suspect 2L will be gone shortly. :)
15:24 Waylon yeah.. been up since 7am, to do a DJ set.
15:24 Waylon its now 3:23am
15:24 mtompset I want to get all the pre-installation steps done for Koha before I even think of sleep.
15:25 Waylon you should be using 'screen' mtompset
15:25 Waylon then you could detach, shutdown your personal computer, sleep.. wake up, and resume.
15:26 mtompset I'm doing this on a VM on my personal computer.
15:26 mtompset I wish I was doing it in screen.
15:26 Waylon ah.
15:26 Waylon VM save state/
15:26 Waylon ?
15:26 mtompset Yes but then it doesn't complete to the perl Makefile.PL stage.
15:27 Waylon right
15:27 Waylon okay, sleep.
15:27 mtompset Have a good night, Waylon.
15:27 mtompset Nice meeting you.
15:28 slef oh fun question... if someone has installed koha with a mysql database with latin1 tables, is there a nice way to convert it to utf8 or do we have to convert column-by-column?
15:28 collum joined #koha
15:28 Waylon yup. you too
15:28 kf slef: sounds eew. how did that happen?
15:29 slef kf: "IT Services" installed the server with the koha packages before we were called in :-(
15:29 eythian > Can't locate HTML/Template/ in @INC
15:29 slef actually I'm surprised the packages do that... eythian is usually smarter than that
15:29 eythian that takes me back...
15:29 Waylon yeah.. how many records entered into it alrady, slef?
15:29 jcamins slef: step 1) dope slap individual who did that. Step 2) use ALTER table.
15:29 eythian slef: what do they do?
15:29 jcamins eythian: why are you looking at HTP?
15:29 slef eythian: do the packages create the database as utf8?
15:29 jcamins The packages don't use Latin-1.
15:30 eythian jcamins: working with an old version, prepping for an upgrade
15:30 jcamins Yes they do.
15:30 slef oh my
15:30 jcamins Someone had to *try* to get Latin-1.
15:30 eythian slef: I should think so.
15:30 slef then I wonder how they managed that
15:30 mtompset latin-1 is default mysql.
15:30 kf yeah, I was wondering too :)
15:30 jcamins And when I say "try," I mean they must've really worked at it.
15:30 slef any road up, yes, they're data in it
15:30 Waylon anyway, gotta go.
15:30 kf because I normally end up doing things wrong first, and never managed that :)
15:30 mtompset They didn't edit the my.cnf
15:30 Waylon much as this is rather entertaining.
15:30 slef not sure how many records, but it'll be painful to recover
15:30 jcamins mtompset: yeah, but every single table specifies its character set as utf-8.
15:30 jcamins slef: ALTER TABLE can adjust the character set.
15:31 jcamins Oh, here's something to check.
15:31 jcamins What database engine is it using?
15:31 slef jcamins: I hear we need to be careful with that.
15:31 * Waylon loves on InnoDB
15:31 eythian yeah, looking at this old DB dump, it's utf-8.
15:31 mtompset yes, but that's why I purposefully did that ignore the client handshake mess in my configuration.
15:31 slef jcamins: oh do I really want to look at this?
15:31 mtompset I wanted to be sure it was UTF8 period.
15:32 eythian MyISAM for some bizzaro reason though.
15:32 slef excuse me for a mo while I dance into the server (you wouldn't believe the process...)
15:32 wahanui slef: The data on your hard drive is out of balance.
15:32 eythian where is this MyISAM stuff coming from.
15:32 slef wahanui: I know that!
15:32 wahanui slef: huh?
15:32 mtompset Isn't MyISAM the default for mySQL as well?
15:32 eythian It is
15:32 eythian koha is supposed to override that though
15:33 jcamins eythian: another?!?
15:33 wahanui another is probably
15:33 eythian but anything I look at that's oldish, it's MyISAM
15:33 eythian this one is a plain default install too, nothing fancy
15:33 eythian from around the 3.2 days
15:33 tcohen the CREATE TABLE sentences include the ENGINE='InnoDB' param
15:33 mtompset How do you change the default? Is there an easy way?
15:33 mtompset Ah.
15:33 eythian I wondering if it's changed more recently than I suspected.
15:34 jcamins eythian: I think it's been InnoDB since 3.0.
15:34 eythian oh
15:34 jcamins Aw. We should've asked Waylon.
15:34 eythian this was originally an upgrade from 2.2
15:34 eythian that'll be why
15:34 eythian heh
15:35 eythian ok, that's explainable then.
15:35 jcamins Wasn't 2.2 Postgres-based?
15:35 eythian no
15:35 jcamins Oh.
15:35 kf jcamins: any chance you get funding to make koha sort right?
15:35 jcamins That was 1.0?
15:35 eythian I guess so.
15:35 jcamins kf: which sorting?
15:35 kf jcamins: the, an, der, die, das etc. being ignored
15:35 kf nonfiling...?
15:35 eythian perl -p -i -e 's/MyISAM/InnoDB/g' library-2012-06-28.sql
15:35 eythian that fixes it :)
15:35 jcamins kf: oh, that'.
15:36 jcamins eythian: but you'll still be missing foreign keys.
15:36 eythian jcamins: yes
15:36 jcamins kf: short answer: maybe. Long answer: maybe.
15:36 jcamins :P
15:36 eythian I'm going to do some experimenting with fixing that too
15:36 kf jcamins: I didn't expect an easy answer...
15:36 kf hehe
15:37 kf :)
15:39 slef jcamins: phew. pending_offline_operations and a couple of others are MyISAM but most seem to be InnoDB.
15:39 gaetan_B bye !
15:39 slef jcamins: don't scare me like that! :)
15:42 jcamins slef: better to check now than find a problem later. :)
15:43 mtompset Some problems left unchecked become incurable. ;)
15:44 * eythian should have remained with myisam, it is a _lot_ faster...
15:44 eythian on the other hand, it causes upgrade issues.
15:44 jcamins lol
15:45 jcamins eythian: and data consistency issues.
15:45 eythian pssht "data"
15:45 mtompset That's what backups are for. ;)
15:45 eythian zactly!
15:51 slef jcamins: true, true.
15:52 mtompset Seriously?! I was just looking at the Budweiser commercial a couple days ago, slef.
15:54 mtompset How big is the git repository?
15:55 melia joined #koha
15:55 mtompset Good... 15 minutes or so, I'll have a freshly installed OS.
15:56 eythian 1.1GB fully checked out
15:56 eythian however, it'll transfer less
15:56 mtompset 1.1GB fully checked out?!
15:56 eythian oh wait
15:56 eythian I have data sitting in there
15:56 eythian that'll make it somewhat larger than it needs to be
15:56 mtompset I guess that sounds about right... the xvf'd tar gz was about that big.
15:57 eythian 612MB I think
15:57 eythian well, git includes the history, and this isn't compressed because it's a working copy
15:57 slef git gc --aggressive
15:57 mtompset The full packages compressed are around 44-45.
15:58 mtompset What is gc?
15:58 slef garbage collection
15:59 slef koha master is about 320M, not checked out
15:59 slef hmmm, that's master and 3.8.x
15:59 slef and various bug branches
16:00 slef hmm, and stuff I thought I'd deleted :)
16:00 slef there was a discussion about this on koha-devel a month or two ago
16:00 eythian this data is still importing. I hate you, InnoDB
16:01 slef http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.[…]294.html#a5619904
16:01 slef git gc --aggressive --prune=now, apparently
16:01 magnuse eythian: bug 8289 has stuff about 2.2 and MyISAM and InnoDB
16:01 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8289 critical, P5 - low, ---, paul.poulain, Pushed to Stable , Upgrading from 2.2 does not work anymore
16:02 eythian make sense.
16:02 eythian I can't remember how we did the upgrade way back when.
16:07 kf @wunder Konstanz
16:07 huginn kf: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 27.0°C (6:00 PM CEST on June 28, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 45%. Dew Point: 17.0°C. Pressure: 29.82 in 1010 hPa (Falling).
16:07 kf it started to rain :(
16:07 kf hm
16:07 kf it's raining.
16:07 mtompset @wunder mnl
16:07 huginn mtompset: The current temperature in Loyola Heights, Quezon City, Philippines is 25.1°C (11:59 PM PHT on June 28, 2012). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 24.0°C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
16:08 magnuse @wunder boo
16:08 mtompset At least it's a reasonable humidity there. :)
16:08 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 11.0°C (5:50 PM CEST on June 28, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 54%. Dew Point: 2.0°C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
16:08 magnuse ahhh...
16:08 mtompset 11C? That's freezing!
16:09 eythian @wunder brighton, uk
16:09 huginn eythian: The current temperature in Brighton, Brighton, United Kingdom is 16.4°C (5:00 PM BST on June 28, 2012). Conditions: Fog. Humidity: 99%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Steady).
16:09 eythian so sticky here :(
16:09 mtompset And I thought here was bad!
16:09 kf it was here... actually the rain is a good thing
16:10 mtompset @wunder laguna, philippines
16:10 huginn mtompset: Error: timed out
16:10 mtompset Nope, not popular enough. :)
16:10 hankbank joined #koha
16:10 fredericd joined #koha
16:10 mtompset I think we have a Typhoon coming at the Philippines.
16:12 drojf joined #koha
16:13 mtompset Greetings, talljoy
16:13 mtompset Can't do much about humidity when Ocean water is swirling over the islands.
16:14 talljoy hiya!
16:15 alex_a1 left #koha
16:17 mveron joined #koha
16:17 mtompset @wunder boracay, philippines
16:17 huginn mtompset: Error: timed out
16:17 mtompset Where does huginn get its weather data from?
16:17 mveron @wunder Allschwil
16:18 huginn mveron: Error: timed out
16:18 mveron @wunder Basel
16:18 huginn mveron: Error: timed out
16:18 mtompset Oh oh! It's late, and I'm feeling craaaaazy...
16:18 mtompset @wunder bar
16:19 huginn mtompset: Error: timed out
16:19 eythian mtompset: wunderground
16:19 eythian @wunder wellington, nz
16:19 huginn eythian: Error: timed out
16:19 eythian I think wundeground may be broken
16:19 eythian though, the site's working. Who knows.
16:21 mtompset @wunder iaklanbo2
16:21 huginn mtompset: Error: timed out
16:22 mtompset @wunder aklan
16:22 huginn mtompset: Error: timed out
16:22 mtompset @wunder AKLAN, PH
16:22 huginn mtompset: Error: timed out
16:23 mtompset 5 more minutes... should be to a fresh instal.
16:24 mtompset then I can prep for koha.
16:27 mtompset cleaning up 97%... why does 3% take 97% of the time?
16:27 mtompset @wunder subic bay
16:27 huginn mtompset: Error: timed out
16:27 mtompset @wunder Subic Bay, PH
16:27 huginn mtompset: Error: timed out
16:27 slef stop hammering huginn... he won't recover any sooner
16:28 mtompset Are you sure it is a he? But you're right, less spamming.
16:29 slef no, not sure, indeed
16:29 drojf ok, "library without borders" took a week to not answer my question about what library system they use. "It's not easy to answer your simple question, because it depends on the particular project.". nice
16:29 jcamins drojf: told ya.
16:29 slef drojf: library without answers
16:29 eythian sounds like they're not particularly organised in that manner internally then perhaps
16:30 slef might be a good and a bad thing
16:30 mtompset I have an archivist friend who was interested in that organization a while back.
16:31 mtompset You didn't ask a yes/no question.
16:31 drojf i suppose they dont have a million projects and dont use a gazillion systems, so i guess "a and b and c" would have been an easy answer. if there is actually someone who knows this, i guess there isnt
16:31 mtompset Yes, but that assumes that someone knows about all projects.
16:32 * jcamins has already expressed his feelings on this organization.
16:32 mtompset I take that as not a positive, jcamins?
16:32 jcamins mtompset: not positive at all, no.
16:32 drojf jcamins: yeah we talked about it. i already forgot i asked them, was slightly confused getting an email about "my inquiry"
16:32 jcamins lol
16:33 jcamins mtompset: with the exception of a few faith-based organizations (SIL included), I have no use for NGO "relief" agencies.
16:33 laurence left #koha
16:34 asaurat left #koha
16:35 mtompset Okay. So, you are talking from experience then.
16:36 jcamins mtompset: yeah, I spent three months as a librarian in Afghanistan, and tried to offer help to LWB in an entirely separate situation.
16:36 kf jcamins: remind me to talk to you about updating the marc frameworks?
16:36 kf :)
16:37 jcamins kf: there's a bug for that.
16:37 * kf sends herself areminder email home
16:37 jcamins @search marc21
16:37 huginn jcamins: There were no matching configuration variables.
16:37 kf yes, I saw that rangi did somethig
16:37 jcamins @query marc21
16:37 huginn jcamins: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3092 normal, P1 - high, ---, frederic, NEW , Data values storage and use 100 bug meta-bug
16:37 huginn jcamins: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1218 enhancement, P2, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , New plugin for MARC21 replacement cost
16:37 huginn jcamins: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2514 enhancement, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , special default fields for MARC21 records
16:37 huginn jcamins: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2559 normal, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Language limit on Spanish returns Russian records or is it English ...
16:37 huginn jcamins: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2280 normal, P3, ---, henridamien, NEW , authorized value for indicators in UNIMARC Framework at field level
16:37 kf but I am not sure we want to do it that way
16:37 jcamins Thanks, huginn...
16:37 jcamins kf: better that way than not at all. :(
16:37 kf yeah, but deleting the obsoleted fields?
16:37 mtompset "Language limit on Spanish returns Russian records or is it English"?!
16:37 * mtompset laughs.
16:37 fredericd Does tagging still work on HEAD/3.8.2? For me, no
16:38 kf fredericd: I did test some time ago for eythian's patch - it did at that time, but something might have changed
16:38 kf was at the hackfest
16:38 kf what is not working for you?
16:38 jcamins kf: yeah, rangi and I discussed it.
16:39 eythian fredericd: tagging is broken in 3.8.2
16:39 jcamins I think my conclusion was that since it's only for new installs, it's not a big deal.
16:39 fredericd eythian: thanks, indeed
16:39 eythian there's a patch for it that I think is lined up to go in
16:39 fredericd eythian: do you have bug number, I can't find it
16:39 kf jcamins: I kinda promised paul to do something about the frameowrks - because of the changes for the maximal size of fields
16:40 eythian bug 8315
16:40 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8315 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Passed QA , fix 'C4::Output 3.02' errors in Koha
16:40 mtompset joined #koha
16:40 kf and thought we could wrap that into a bigger patch working out some of the related bugs
16:40 jcamins kf: ooh, excellent, you should fix it. :)
16:40 mtompset I wanted to page up.. instead... booted out.
16:40 eythian that patch might not be complete, details are on the bug though
16:40 fredericd thanks. that's it. I have this warning in logs
16:40 kf jcamins: so I am going to work on it - only trying to sort out what needs to be done and how we want to do it :)
16:41 kf and hopefully closing lots of the related bugs in the process.
16:41 mtompset related bugs closed is good!
16:41 jcamins Any bug closing is good!
16:42 mtompset but related bugs with one patch is better. :)
16:43 mtompset And now for the VM reboot, and the git getting gotten.
16:45 mtompset git?
16:45 wahanui git is[…]Control_Using_Git
16:48 hank_bank joined #koha
16:51 mtompset Would you recommend doing the git under the 'koha' user name, or the developer's account?
16:56 Ccorrales joined #koha
16:58 brylie joined #koha
17:05 jcamins mtompset: I work under my own account.
17:05 jcamins Well, that's what I do on my own computer.
17:05 jcamins On my servers that I use for testing, I have a koha user.
17:05 jcamins But I just push from my own computers to that one.
17:05 jcamins Those. There are two at the moment.
17:07 mtompset So the git is yours, but the koha one is really just a giant rsync?
17:07 jcamins Right.
17:08 jcamins I mean, I use git push to maintain it, but I handle it like it's rsync.
17:09 mtompset Since I don't have the luxury of disk space... I'm thinking I'll just git clone under koha.
17:09 jcamins mtompset: those are two different computers for me.
17:09 mtompset since this is just my own VM anyways.
17:09 jcamins Let me step back and explain what I just explained. :)
17:10 jcamins I am a Koha support vendor. I, personally, do development in a VM that runs on my laptop.
17:10 jcamins However, my clients do not have access to that laptop.
17:10 jcamins So they have test servers.
17:10 mtompset The test servers run from the koha user.
17:10 jcamins Right.
17:10 jcamins On my VM, though, everything is done as my user.
17:11 jcamins And I do have Koha running on the VM.
17:11 mtompset That makes sense for your context.
17:11 jcamins Right.
17:12 mtompset Mine is one where I'm just trying to generate a patch or two.
17:12 jcamins For you, there's no need for those extra servers.
17:12 mtompset I was thinking running under koha...
17:12 jcamins You can do that too. It's whichever user you prefer to log in as.
17:12 mtompset So that if I upgrade install a development version I could rsync between the two.
17:12 jcamins I prefer jcamins because SSH uses that automatically.
17:13 jcamins And git push handles different SSH users.
17:13 mtompset rsync I understand... git push is another scary beast.
17:15 jcamins It's basically rsync but it understand git repositories so it transfers even less data.
17:17 mtompset okay,, format.headers...
17:18 mtompset cloning into kohaclone
17:20 mtompset doing an apt-get upgrade and git clone at the same time is a bear on the bandwidth.
17:20 jcamins Hehe. Yeah, it would be.
17:21 mtompset Greetings, nengard.
17:21 mtompset Did I correctly notice it is your birthday?
17:23 nengard yesterday
17:23 mtompset Belated Happy Birthday.
17:23 nengard thank you! :)
17:31 cait joined #koha
17:31 * cait waves
17:31 mtompset Greetings, cait.
17:31 cait hi mtompset
17:31 jcamins o/
17:31 cait hi jcamins :)
17:38 mtompset git clone: 25%
17:39 mtompset installing apt-get upgrades
17:39 mtompset and I think I've made all the tweaks that don't require an install of something.
17:41 mtompset are there any major differences between a standard install and a development install?
17:41 jcamins Yes.
17:41 mtompset same questions?
17:41 jcamins Development install uses the files in your kohaclone.
17:42 jcamins Well, many of them, anyway.
17:42 jcamins Standard install creates copies.
17:42 mtompset Yes, that I know.
17:42 jcamins If you're doing development, you need to do a development install.
17:42 jcamins Then what's the question? :)
17:42 mtompset If I answer "development", there aren't going to be other questions that the standard doesn't ask?
17:43 jcamins Ah.
17:43 jcamins No there will not be.
17:43 mtompset There isn't going to be a secret handshake step that only the privileged few know about by answering 42 to step number X?
17:48 jcamins Nope.
17:48 mtompset But I bet you wanted to add one. :P
17:50 mtompset Wow this is painfully slow over a 1Mbps line.
17:50 mtompset I don't know how I survived with only 384Kbps.
17:51 jcamins lol
17:51 jcamins mtompset: I have cloned Koha over a connection that felt that 17Kbps was a good speed.
17:51 jcamins I hope to never do that again.
17:52 jcamins And no, that wasn't in Afghanistan. That was in New York.
17:52 mtompset If it was that slow, I'd go to sleep!
17:52 mtompset No, I believe you.
17:52 mtompset Rural parts of the US still have really poor internet connectivity.
17:53 jcamins mtompset: city.
17:53 mtompset That's scary.
17:53 mtompset Dial up?
17:54 mtompset That was like when I upgraded to XP SP2 over dial up over a decade ago.
17:54 mtompset well, about a decade ago.
17:54 jcamins Nope... cable.
17:54 jcamins I called and complained.
17:55 mtompset They probably over-subscribed their lines.
17:55 mtompset Greed is bad that way.
17:56 nengard left #koha
17:56 mtompset Yep... looks like just over 600MB will be downloaded in this git clone.
17:57 mtompset correction... just under.
17:57 mtompset What timezone are you in?
17:57 drojf mtompset: they all over-subscribe. that is part of the concept. and it would be more expensive otherwise
17:58 mtompset You're probably right, drojf.
17:59 jcamins EST... UTC-4 at the moment, I think.
18:01 mtompset 1PM there?
18:01 jcamins 2.
18:02 mtompset I thought Eastern was 13 hours off... it's 2AM here.
18:02 jcamins Something to do with Daylight Savings Time?
18:02 mtompset It's 13 off in the fall? okay.
18:02 mtompset Philippines doesn't do DST.
18:03 jcamins And the US does extra DST for the past, what, ten years?
18:03 mtompset extra?
18:04 jcamins Yep.
18:04 jcamins Starts earlier, ends later.
18:04 mtompset I thought there was only spring forward, fall back?
18:04 jcamins Cost a fortune in productivity.
18:04 mtompset Oh you mean the days are shifted.
18:04 jcamins There is, but now we do it at a different time than the rest of the world.
18:04 jcamins Right.
18:05 mtompset Nationalistic Pride? :)
18:10 jcamins I presume so.
18:10 jcamins Hard to see any other justification.
18:16 mtompset 70,000 objects to go.
18:17 mtompset Woah... that was a blast.
18:17 mtompset 50,000 to go.
18:18 slef mtompset: you could have saved some time by only downloading the branch(es) you are interested in... but that is probably too long now.
18:18 slef too late, even
18:18 jcamins slef: is that possible?
18:18 * jcamins did not know that.
18:19 slef jcamins: oooh, now you're making me think. It might not be possible with git clone directly.
18:20 mtompset 10,000 to go... YAY! Almost done.
18:21 mtompset Resolving Deltas... oh my.
18:22 slef jcamins: mmm, yes, looks like one has to git init, then remote add, then fetch :-/
18:22 slef jcamins: did anyone run git gc on the main repo?
18:23 slef the one that should reduce it to below 200M, that I linked earlier
18:23 jcamins slef: I thought gmcharlt did.
18:23 * mtompset smirks, "apt-get upgrade is still installing!"
18:23 slef "The 2007 US change was part of the Energy Policy Act of 2005; previously, from 1987 through 2006, the start and end dates were the first Sunday in April and the last Sunday in October, and Congress retains the right to go back to the previous dates now that an energy-consumption study has been done" --
18:25 slef "This section of the act is controversial; some have questioned whether daylight saving results in net energy savings." --[…]olicy_Act_of_2005
18:26 slef Is there a neat way to put a listbox into a warning box on the checkout screen?
18:26 slef to let the librarian choose between ways of resolving a problem
18:26 mtompset How can switching on different days result in energy savings?!
18:26 slef but I guess I could present a series of buttons
18:26 cait I think we mostly do buttons for actions
18:26 cait so that would be consistent
18:27 slef mtompset: fewer total people-awake hours in darkness, so less use of heat+light
18:28 mtompset Yes, but 8AM-5PM is still working hours... so light out and shifted hours means nothing.
18:29 slef if 8AM is now warm+light when it was cold+dark before, less artificial heat+light needed, see?
18:29 mtompset Okay... that makes more sense.
18:32 mtompset Glad that a thumb drive write speed should be faster than a hard drive... because this resolving deltas is slow.
18:32 mtompset I was hoping is was a 2 minute thing.
18:35 mtompset This tango with git is more like pulling a rock uphill.
18:36 slef at least you're not pushing... then if you slip, you get squished
18:36 mtompset well, it is more like pushing in the pain. But it is more like pulling in that's the direction it's going.
18:39 mtompset Ah, the source of the pain is low memory in the virtual machine.
18:50 mtompset Note to self: 768MB is not enough.
18:51 drojf what os?
18:51 jcamins mtompset: that should be plenty.
18:51 mtompset ubuntu 12.04 in a VM.
18:51 mtompset Not for an apt-get upgrade AND a git clone at the same time.
18:52 drojf the vm has 768mb or all together?
18:52 drojf heh maybe nor
18:52 drojf not
18:52 jcamins Oh, well, yeah, that might be a bit much.
18:52 jcamins But either one will work happily with 768MB/RAM.
18:53 mtompset They are both grunting along.
18:53 mtompset Have about 60MB free.
18:53 sophie_m left #koha
18:54 mtompset Finally, apt-get upgrade finished.
18:54 mtompset hopefully successfully... no errors were given.
18:54 mtompset And there goes the git clone.
19:02 mtompset Okay, while I'm wait... what if a single patch fixes two bugs?
19:02 mtompset waiting...
19:02 slef mtompset: we cheer?
19:03 mtompset yes, that's fine and dandy... but which bug report do I put the suggested patch on?
19:03 mtompset both?
19:03 wahanui both are port 80.
19:03 jcamins mtompset: you put the patch on one of them, and update the other.
19:03 mtompset forget both
19:03 wahanui mtompset: I forgot both
19:03 jcamins For an example, bug 2060 and bug 7475
19:03 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2060 enhancement, P3, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Ability to import Authorities from Staff Client
19:03 slef either, and probably mark the other as Depends or SeeAlso (do we have that?)
19:03 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7475 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Option to overlay authorities
19:03 jcamins Okay, that's a little different because I used a batch.
19:04 jcamins We have see also, but better to use depends.
19:04 mtompset bug 7352
19:04 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7352 normal, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, NEW , generates error in related to missing $key value
19:04 mtompset bug 7630
19:04 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7630 minor, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, NEW , Warning on about param without key
19:04 jcamins Also, my example isn't so good because actually there are two different functions that depend on each other.
19:05 drojf1 joined #koha
19:05 mtompset Actually, this was where I was going to grep for \$[:alpha:]*\s*=>\s*
19:06 mtompset because we have $template->param( ....
19:06 mtompset with some variable as a key with a value.
19:06 mtompset And this triggers the same message that is being generated in
19:07 mtompset particularly when the variable is undef or blank.
19:07 mtompset I think the git clone is done... time for reboot.
19:09 mtompset a few more updates... and then I'm ready for a koha dev install.
19:10 cait :)
19:18 mtompset Has anyone determined if version 7 of the JDK is okay (as compared to version 6)?
19:21 jcamins mtompset: JDK?
19:22 mtompset JRE JDK... whatever.
19:22 jcamins mtompset: Koha doesn't use Java at all.
19:23 jcamins So, yeah, you can use whichever version you like.
19:23 mtompset Really?
19:23 mtompset So I can axe that from the list of things to install, okay.
19:24 jcamins Yeah.
19:24 jcamins Why did you have it on your list in the first place?
19:24 mtompset Because... that is what was originally on the Koha on Ubuntu page.
19:24 drojf1 what page?
19:24 wahanui hmmm... page is too big?
19:25 mtompset[…]ki/Koha_on_Ubuntu
19:25 mtompset It was there before I edit'd it.
19:25 drojf1 "DO NOT ATTEMPT TO INSTALL KOHA 3.8.X ON UBUNTU 8.04 -- IT FAILS!" <- lol
19:26 mtompset I put that it...
19:26 mtompset I tried, just for fun.
19:26 mtompset And it was only one tiny dependency that messed it up too.
19:27 drojf1 why would you want to use an ancient version of ubuntu?
19:27 mtompset Because 8.04 LTS is supported until next year.
19:27 mtompset Not because I want to, but because it is supported still.
19:28 cait mtompset: the installation instructions in Koha INSTALL.* are usually better than the instructions on the wiki
19:28 drojf1 yes that is great for people that started using it in 2008. those people might have switched to a newer lts version by now. but why would you install that NOW? :D
19:28 mtompset I've made every effort to make it the other way around for Ubuntu. :)
19:29 cait someone watching soccer?
19:30 mtompset What does soccer have to do with installation?
19:30 drojf1 cait: i do, even though i am not really interested. ard stream is unusable, zatoo seems to work
19:31 cait using zattoo too
19:31 cait well... if we loose... less noise
19:31 cait mtompset: nothing :)
19:31 drojf1 exactly my ppoint :D
19:31 cait heh
19:32 mtompset Why would I watch football anyways? Canada never gets anywhere near the finals.
19:32 nengard joined #koha
19:54 mtompset Greetings, matts
19:54 matts hi !
19:55 matts Unusal time to connect, for me...
19:55 matts waiting for the marseille crew to arrive to my place...
19:56 drojf1 hi matts. what are you going to do?
19:56 matts (warning, it's in french)
19:56 matts It's the "Perl Days" in Strasbourg, France, starting tomorrow
19:57 matts So I'm hosting a few of my fellow coworkers in my town
19:57 drojf1 ah yes i heard biblibre is going with a few people
19:57 matts and in my house, of course :)
19:57 drojf1 :)
19:58 matts But they had a late flight, so they'll arrive a quarter before midnight
19:58 matts These two days of conferences will be coool
19:58 matts topics are nice
19:59 * mtompset tries to stay awake for downloading and installation of prerequisites for Koha.
19:59 * drojf1 needs to learn a lot more about perl before he could go there
19:59 matts eiro (former biblibre coworker) will make a few conferences
19:59 mtompset That's what Google is for.
20:00 mtompset :)
20:00 matts There's more than one way to google it ? :)
20:00 mtompset There are only three commands in the universe. :)
20:00 mtompset load
20:00 mtompset compare
20:00 mtompset jump
20:00 matts old skool :)
20:00 mtompset Everything else is just too fancy. ;)
20:02 mtompset And before that... there was only one: lcj. It did all three at once!
20:09 kathryn joined #koha
20:12 cait matts: who is visiting? :)
20:12 matts hi cat
20:12 kathryn morning!
20:12 wahanui morning is a state of mind. or whenever the cat wants breakfast.
20:12 matts cait,
20:12 matts sorry
20:12 cait morning kathryn :)
20:12 matts there will be hdl, asaurat, christophe_c, Joubu, julian_m, Kivutar (former from biblibre) and me
20:12 kathryn hiya cait :)
20:13 cait matts: nice :)
20:13 matts wahanui, the cat *always* wants breakfast !
20:13 wahanui matts: what?
20:13 matts wahanui, what what ? :)
20:13 wahanui matts: wish i knew
20:14 matts Am I talking to a bot ?
20:14 matts sigh
20:15 drojf1 :D
20:15 mtompset who is a bot?
20:15 cait lol
20:15 cait mtompset: wahanui is
20:15 cait wahanui botsnack cookie
20:15 wahanui :)
20:15 cait drojf1 botsnack cookie
20:15 drojf1 wahanui botsnack beer
20:15 wahanui thanks drojf1 :)
20:15 drojf1 thanks cait
20:15 drojf1 :D
20:15 cait hah! i knew it
20:16 jcamins matts catsnack breakfast
20:16 jcamins :)
20:16 matts I (almost) failed the turing test !
20:17 mtompset how could you fail it if you provide reasonable answers?
20:17 jcamins lol
20:17 matts I answered to the bot...
20:17 mtompset oh... I'm half awake. Didn't notice. :)
20:17 matts twice
20:17 jcamins mtompset: shouldn't it be about 4am there?
20:18 mtompset Yes... And I've almost got the prerequisites installed.
20:18 cait @quote random
20:18 huginn cait: Quote #77: "*chris_n wants to know if nengard figures out how to do 1 million things at once... and if she will release the source code or not" (added by jdavidb at 05:02 PM, June 21, 2010)
20:18 nengard LOL
20:18 cait @quote random
20:18 huginn cait: Quote #178: "jcamins: IIS kills kittens" (added by wizzyrea at 05:20 PM, January 10, 2012)
20:18 cait heh
20:18 cait hi nengard
20:19 mtompset This indexing problem related to memory issues is bugging me!
20:20 matts what ? 32To of RAM is not enough ? Kidding, right ? :)
20:20 mtompset We've got 512.
20:20 mtompset MB
20:20 matts MB ?
20:20 mtompset MB.
20:20 matts I'm sorry, are you from the past ?
20:20 jcamins mtompset: you're having indexing problems related to memory?
20:20 mtompset No, I'm being hosted.
20:21 mtompset Zebra reindexes, but I can't find the
20:21 jcamins searching faq?
20:21 wahanui searching faq is at
20:21 jcamins ^^ nothing to do with RAM. :)
20:22 matts increase shadow ?
20:22 matts gotta go... grab something to eat...
20:22 matts cheers
20:22 jcamins matts: nah, I'm thinking zebrasrv isn't running.
20:23 jcamins :)
20:23 jcamins Enjoy your snack.
20:23 mtompset I just restarted it.
20:23 mtompset It was running.
20:23 jcamins mtompset: how did you restart it?
20:23 jcamins Results not showing up is not a symptom of RAM shortage.
20:23 mtompset service koha-zebra-daemon stop
20:23 mtompset then start.
20:24 jcamins If the problem is RAM, the symptom you should be seeing is Apache crashing hard.
20:24 jcamins If you are getting a "No results" message, the problem is not RAM but a configuration issue of some sort.
20:24 jcamins For example, running directly.
20:24 mtompset I did.
20:24 mtompset -b -a -e
20:25 mtompset ^e^r
20:25 jcamins But you are using the pakcages?
20:25 jcamins *packages
20:25 cait mtompset: try with -v?
20:25 cait to see if there are any errors
20:25 mtompset I did with -v... no errors.
20:25 cait and your zebra files belong to the your koha user?
20:25 mtompset yes.
20:26 jcamins You shouldn't run directly if you are using the packages.
20:26 jcamins Are you using the Debian packages?
20:26 mtompset no.
20:26 jcamins Okay. Never mind, then.
20:26 mtompset wget latest.tar.gz
20:26 cait jcamins: I think he did a dev install?
20:26 mtompset no
20:26 mtompset standard off tgz
20:26 cait a
20:26 jcamins cait: this is his other server.
20:26 * jcamins thinks he's managed to follow, more or less.
20:26 mtompset I haven't finished the dev one yet.
20:27 jcamins git checkout bug_8207
20:27 jcamins Sorry.
20:27 * jcamins just rearchitected his entire infrastructure, and now needs a break.
20:27 jcamins (network infrastructure)
20:28 jcamins (I did not just knock down the apartment building and rebuild it)
20:30 cait ah sorry
20:31 mtompset what env variables need to be set? $KOHA_CONF and $PERL5LIB, right?
20:32 jcamins That's correct.
20:32 mtompset does $KOHAPATH need to be set?
20:33 jcamins Nope.
20:38 mtompset I'm running with a single -v.
20:39 jcamins How large is the Zebra database on disk?
20:39 mtompset where do I find it?
20:39 jcamins With standard I think it's /var/lib/koha.
20:40 mtompset I'll take a look after the reindex finishes... just another couple minutes.
20:40 jcamins /var/lib/koha/zebradb, I think.
20:41 mtompset ....
20:41 mtompset then authorities or biblio...
20:41 jcamins Both.
20:41 jcamins Just du -h /var/lib/koha/zebradb
20:42 mtompset 1.8GB and it's in the middle of the reindex
20:43 jcamins Okay, the problem is with searching not indexing.
20:43 mtompset 1.1GB and it is done.
20:43 jcamins So chances are your cron job is being run by the wrong user.
20:43 jcamins At least, that would be my guess.
20:43 mtompset what the ?!
20:43 mtompset It's showing up now.
20:44 jcamins That's why I was thinking it was probably the user you have the cron job under.
20:44 mtompset Well, I sudo'd so running as root works... I should sudo and attempt running as koha.
20:44 jcamins If it's working now, that means zebrasrv is running as root.
20:45 jcamins So you need to change the user in the koha-zebra-daemon init script.
20:48 mtompset No, the zebra daemon is running as koha.
20:48 jcamins But when you used sudo to run the indexer it worked?
20:48 mtompset yes...
20:48 mtompset Does your brain hurt yet?
20:48 jcamins It is a bit odd.
20:48 jcamins Try...
20:49 jcamins `sudo chown -R koha:koha /var/lib/koha/zebradb`
20:49 jcamins Then reindex as koha, and see if it still works.
20:49 mtompset BAM!
20:50 mtompset *.mf is root:root
20:50 jcamins Okay.
20:50 jcamins So you'll need to change the owner to koha, reindex *as koha* and restart the Zebra daemon.
20:51 mtompset zebra daemon is running as koha
20:51 mtompset That solves that problem, I think.
20:51 mtompset I hate permissions!
20:53 mtompset Thanks for the pointer.
20:53 mtompset I should have thought of that.
20:54 mtompset Re-running index as koha.
20:54 mtompset Confirming that won't break it.
20:55 mtompset Good thing we only have 39Kish records.
21:03 mtompset you have got to be kidding me...
21:05 mtompset okay... why did I have to restart the daemon to get it to work?
21:05 jcamins You mean after reindexing again?
21:05 jcamins Permissions get "stuck."
21:06 mtompset yes.
21:07 mtompset that's dumb. But okay.
21:07 mtompset Still waiting on prerequisites to install.
21:08 mtompset I really want to git pull and then branch somehow, make my change, and then post the patch!
21:10 mtompset So this is the CHI everyone is talking about.
21:10 jcamins mtompset: you don't actually need CHI.
21:10 jcamins Unless you're patching the caching code.
21:11 mtompset it's listed as required.
21:11 mtompset ./ -m
21:12 jcamins mtompset: it is?
21:12 mtompset Yes.
21:12 jcamins It shouldn't be.
21:12 jcamins I swear it wasn't when I submitted the patch that marked it optional...
21:12 mtompset Can't hurt to install it anyways.
21:13 jcamins No, having CHI is a good idea, 'cause then you can see if CHI will help.
21:13 jcamins But still.
21:14 mtompset CHI
21:14 mtompset CHI cached something?
21:14 mtompset and two others were listed.
21:14 mtompset But they weren't CHI.
21:15 jcamins Actually, I'm not sure what that stands for, actually.
21:15 mtompset So 3.6.3 DB to 3.8.2 should go smoothly if I go from mysql dumps?
21:15 mtompset cache handling interface?
21:15 mtompset I think I saw that in the aptitude search I did.
21:16 mtompset You can see the logic I use to find it as a package rather than CPAN it in koha_on_ubuntu. :)
21:16 jcamins Yeah, cache handling interface sounds right.
21:17 jcamins Yes, the upgrade will be very smooth.
21:18 jcamins Provided you didn't do any foolish like making changes to the code on your production system.
21:20 nengard left #koha
21:21 mtompset So what you are saying it, that I should do a 3.6.3 install from scratch and then an upgrade install. :P
21:22 jcamins Well, you haven't done anything too foolish yet.
21:22 jcamins So you should be fine.
21:23 mtompset But I am confused... how can I turn a STANDARD install into a DEV install?
21:24 mtompset Because doesn't the upgrade install need an install log?
21:24 jcamins No, you just do the dev install, and load the data into your database.
21:25 jcamins So, say your database is called koha.
21:25 mtompset Ah...
21:25 mtompset so... dev install.
21:25 mtompset put the data in.
21:25 mtompset web installer?
21:25 jcamins You do all the installation up to the web install, load the data, then run the web installer.
21:25 jcamins Exactly.
21:26 mtompset CHI is taking a while to install.
21:26 JesseM left #koha
21:27 mtompset AH... system restart required... the dselect installed a new kernel.
21:28 jcamins Heh. No wonder it took so long... you're also updating the entire rest of the system.
21:28 mtompset YES!
21:28 mtompset From scratch.
21:28 mtompset Fresh OS install.
21:29 mtompset 16GB VM drive.
21:29 mtompset on the USB drive.
21:29 jcamins No, I mean, no wonder the CHI install took so long... you haven't finished the whole upgrade reboot upgrade reboot process. ;)
21:30 mtompset And I pressed CTRL-S to page up... and forgot to press CTRL-Q.
21:30 mtompset The stupid things you do when you're half-awake.
21:31 mtompset I'm hoping the new virtualbox version and kernel version work together nicely.
21:31 mtompset the previous version and 24 required a rootdelay=120 in the boot command line.
21:32 jcamins I've never had problems, not even with a netbook.
21:33 mtompset Also, why did the packages selection upgrade my kernel?
21:36 mtompset Oh... it isn't required... the CHI had mandatory no, but it was listed.
21:36 jcamins I told you it shouldn't be mandatory.
21:37 mtompset I'm half awake. Anything listed in mandatory in my mind. :)
21:37 mtompset ^in^is^
21:37 jcamins Heh.
21:37 mtompset drat!
21:37 mtompset I'll have to CPAN a module.
21:38 mtompset template-plugin-htmltotext
21:38 mtompset I was hoping for a CPAN'less install.
21:39 jcamins What OS are you on?
21:39 mtompset Ubuntu 12.04
21:39 wahanui hmmm... Ubuntu 12.04 is frensh.
21:40 jcamins wahanui: forget Ubuntu 12.04
21:40 wahanui jcamins: I forgot ubuntu 12.04
21:40 jcamins It might be in the repo, and it's certainly in mine.
21:40 mtompset I'll CPAN it, thanks.
21:40 jcamins Okay.
21:40 drojf1 mtompset:  sudo dh-make-perl --build --cpan template-plugin-htmltotext ? not actually cpan-less, but a deb package you can install or delete…
21:41 jcamins drojf1: ooh, one step?
21:41 jcamins Nifty!
21:41 drojf1 learned that on the plack wiki page :)
21:42 drojf1 there is even --install but it did not work for me. --build and install with dpkg did
21:42 mtompset That's interesting, but I'll do it the "hard" way.
21:43 drojf1 heh
21:43 jcamins It's 5am! Do it the easy way.
21:43 mtompset 5:42am.
21:43 jcamins Also, the easier way is better because it makes maintenace easier.
21:43 drojf1 ouch
21:43 mtompset CPAN isn't that much harder.
21:44 mtompset just let me get cpan configured first.
21:44 mtompset then quit.
21:44 drojf1 :D
21:44 mtompset that do the build thingy.
21:46 mtompset Yes, I have to admit the dpkg way let's you remove it nicely later.
21:46 jcamins mtompset: and upgrade easily when it becomes available on multiverse.
21:47 mtompset will a dpkg upgrade nicely with apt-get?
21:48 jcamins Yup.
21:48 drojf1 yes
21:48 jcamins apt-get is a wrapper around dpkg.
21:49 mtompset okay... here goes... it is Template::Plugin::HtmlToText not the - thing I said.
21:51 mtompset dh-make-perl is another thing to install, I think.
21:52 mtompset YIKES! That's a lot more to install.
21:52 mtompset CPAN would have been faster.
21:52 jcamins Better to do it right than fast.
21:53 mtompset 38 more files to install later...
21:53 mtompset grunt grunt...
21:54 mtompset hey, there's the www-mechanize-perl thing you were mentioning.
21:54 drojf1 there would still be the repo of jcamins ;)
21:54 jcamins Yes, there's that too.
21:55 mtompset dh-make-perl is installing it.
21:55 jcamins WWW::Mechanize? Huh.
21:55 mtompset Yep.
21:56 drojf1 "previous rebase directory /home/pi/koha/.git/rebase-apply still exists but mbox given." what is that supposed to mean?
21:56 mtompset Shh... no scary git messages. I just want to make my first patch.
21:57 jcamins Are you in the middle of a rebase?
21:57 drojf1 actually i was just making a new branch to try the solr patch. but it was complaining about something before until i stashed my changes in the other branch
21:58 jcamins Well, if you're sure you're not in the middle of a rebase, do git rebase --abort
21:58 drojf1 It looks like git-am is in progress. Cannot rebase.
21:59 drojf1 so many funny things i never heared of :)
21:59 * mtompset plugs his ears, "la la la la la"
21:59 drojf1 sounds like the time. omg, it's git-am already
22:01 mtompset Where's the like button? ;)
22:02 jcamins lol
22:02 jcamins Okay, git am --abort
22:02 jcamins You were using git-bz?
22:03 mtompset I hate man-db triggers and ldconfig deferred's.
22:03 mtompset They take so long.
22:05 mtompset ARG! It didn't work.
22:05 drojf1 ok that helped. the patch does not apply though. yes i used git-bz
22:05 mtompset The cpan failed.
22:06 mtompset series of uninitialized variables.
22:07 mtompset looks like a manual compile and install.
22:07 jcamins mtompset: I already pointed you to an apt repo with the needed package.
22:07 drojf1 just saying…
22:08 mtompset okay... what file do I edit where to add this?
22:08 jcamins I need to move that onto something other than a spare server, so I can link it on the wiki.
22:08 jcamins /etc/apt/sources.list
22:08 drojf1 /etc/apt/sou… how did you type that so fast??
22:08 drojf1 :D
22:09 jcamins Oh, missing one word in the copy. Add "main" after dependencies.
22:10 jcamins Necessary because putting that on an actual server is still on my to-do list.
22:11 jcamins So more than about three people using it at a time is guaranteed to bring the server down.
22:12 mtompset[…]ists/dependencies
22:12 mtompset right?
22:12 jcamins You don't need that /dists/ bit.
22:13 mtompset So ...
22:14 mtompset ?
22:14 jcamins That exact string.
22:14 jcamins It all goes on one line.
22:14 drojf1 without the [off]
22:14 jcamins Then apt-get update && apt-get install libwhatever-we--are-trying-to-install-perl
22:14 jcamins Right.
22:14 mtompset dependencies has a space after koha?
22:14 jcamins Right.
22:15 talljoy1 joined #koha
22:15 mtompset type [off] is not known.
22:16 jcamins Yeah, no [off]
22:16 jcamins That was for the IRC channel.
22:17 mtompset doing an apt-get update.
22:19 mtompset What does [off] mean?
22:19 jcamins It means "don't record this line in the logs."
22:22 mtompset GPG signature issues.
22:22 jcamins Ignore it.
22:22 drojf1 ignore
22:23 jcamins Not worth the time to add the apt repo's certificate to your keyring.
22:23 mtompset It's 6:22am... time has become irrelevant.
22:23 drojf1 says the evil mastermind pretending to be jcamins and distributing crazy things via the repo
22:23 mtompset I have skipped a day :)
22:24 jcamins lol
22:24 jcamins I hope you don't work on Fridays.
22:24 jcamins lol
22:27 mtompset okay package installed...
22:27 mtompset now to check the sax parser.
22:27 col6y joined #koha
22:30 francharb_afk good night all
22:30 mtompset good night, francharb_afk
22:31 jcamins Aw.
22:31 mtompset Sweet... I'm at the make stages!
22:31 jcamins If I'd realized he wasn't afk, I would've asked him questions.
22:32 mtompset dev here I come.
22:32 mtompset /dev/koha/kohaclone?
22:33 jcamins No!
22:33 jcamins Not /dev
22:33 jcamins /home/koha/koha-dev
22:33 jcamins /dev is for devices.
22:34 jcamins And of course your repo should be in something like /home/koha/kohaclone.
22:34 jcamins Wherever you checked it out to.
22:34 mtompset Here's a question...
22:34 mtompset ICU vs. CHR?
22:34 mtompset Let's say I'm going to have Thai or Chinese characters... ICU?
22:34 skeggsc joined #koha
22:35 jcamins ICU.
22:35 skeggsc Hi, I'm trying to install Koha 4.10.05 on a Debian Squeeze server, and most of the tests fail during make test:
22:35 mtompset 4.10.X... that's a liblime release.
22:35 skeggsc Huh?
22:35 skeggsc Did I get the source from the wrong location?
22:36 jcamins skeggsc: yes you did, sorry. :(
22:36 jcamins skeggsc: you should get Koha from the Koha website,
22:36 skeggsc Thanks. That would be my problem.
22:36 jcamins Yup. :)
22:36 jcamins Good luck!
22:37 jcamins Also, you should think about just using packages.
22:37 jcamins Let me find the wiki page for you.
22:37 jcamins It's sooooo much easier.
22:37 maximep left #koha
22:37 jcamins[…]on_Debian_Squeeze
22:37 drojf1 he is long gone
22:37 jcamins Oh.
22:37 jcamins Oh well.
22:37 jcamins He'll be back.
22:37 drojf1 no reason not to post that link once in a while
22:38 mtompset Why are the versions of liblime and koha not synchronized?
22:39 jcamins mtompset: LibLime forked the code back before 3.2, and did not share their work until Koha had moved on too far for it to be integrated.
22:41 Irma joined #koha
22:41 drojf1 also having 4.x makes their version seem ahead of koha
22:41 drojf1 there is an ogg opus codec. yeah, i learned something today
22:42 jcamins drojf1: still working on the embedded video?
22:42 drojf1 yes but i might skip some of the crazy, unsupportedbynormalbrowsers-parts
22:43 jcamins lol
22:43 jcamins Makes sense.
22:43 mtompset embedded video for what?
22:44 drojf1 make koha play video or audio in the opac if catalogued in field 856
22:44 jcamins Anything!
22:44 wahanui anything is, like, possible with enough development work :)
22:44 jcamins Exactly.
22:47 drojf1 i'm surprised there is nothing like a playlist where filepart01, filepart02 would play one after the other. there i go inventing cataloguing rules for field and subfield repetitions for stuff that doesn't exist :D
22:48 jcamins drojf1: why wouldn't that happen?
22:48 drojf1 it would, but it appears html5 does not have it
22:48 mtompset Create your own standard like GRS-1. ;)
22:48 * mtompset laughs.
22:49 drojf1 heh
22:49 drojf1 i bet loc and ifla will be very happy about me setting rules for html5 video and audio cataloguing in their 856 subfields :D
22:49 jcamins drojf1: you can't just repeat... something?
22:50 jcamins drojf1: subfield order *is* significant so there's no reason you couldn't decide that videos were to be played in the order they appeared, if that's all you mean.
22:51 mtompset No, I think he means, you can't just play it over and over... because you want to?
22:52 jcamins Hm. schuster worked late today.
22:52 mtompset BTW... Happy Tau Day (6-28)
22:53 jcamins Thanks.
22:53 mtompset Though a friend of mine noted... Happy Perfect Numbers Day.
22:53 drojf1 i would have had an idea what to do with repeating subfields vs repeating the whole 856 field. but the repeating subfield part i thought should be used for file parts, because they have the same mime type and all, not all these subfields are repeatable. but i dont know ho to realize hat in the html5 tags, because it seems to have no equivalent there. if you put several files together, they are alternatives (same file, different format, like .ogg versio
22:54 jcamins Ah.
22:54 drojf1 or i just have not found it. you can do something with javascript, i have ignored that so far
22:55 drojf1 it gets even crazier with the <track> tag for subtitles
22:58 jcamins Okay, two more patches submitted.
23:06 mtompset grunt grunt
23:06 mtompset make is slow...
23:06 mtompset koha has so many files!
23:07 mtompset So, your production servers...
23:07 mtompset are they dev installs too?
23:07 jcamins mtompset: no!
23:07 jcamins Definitely not.
23:07 jcamins I use packages for production.
23:08 mtompset So you get a nice dev system patched up the way you want, and then you tgz it, and do an upgrade install?
23:09 jcamins Basically, except instead of using the tarball I use Debian packages.
23:09 jcamins So I install with apt-get upgrade
23:10 mtompset and you point it at the package you made from your dev system.
23:10 jcamins Right.
23:11 jcamins I build my production packages using the same environment that I use for releasing 3.6.x.
23:12 jcamins (though right now eythian builds the packages that are uploaded to
23:15 mtompset And the packages basically dump into some subdirectory from which you do an upgrade install?
23:15 jcamins Nope.
23:15 mtompset The packages replace the /usr/share/koha?
23:15 jcamins Right.
23:15 jcamins And automatically upgrade the database.
23:16 jcamins It's very convenient.
23:16 jcamins And mosty foolproof.
23:17 mtompset whereas, because I'm using Ubuntu and shun using the debian packages, I have to take a couple extra steps. :)
23:17 jcamins Nah, the Debian packages work perfectly on Ubuntu.
23:18 jcamins Up until a few weeks ago I used Ubuntu on my production servers.
23:19 mtompset We'll be sticking with Ubuntu as it has a broader support base within SIL.
23:22 mtompset Do the packages include setting up apache?
23:22 jcamins Yup.
23:22 mtompset Do they set up your preference of MySQL or PostGre?
23:24 jcamins MySQL.
23:24 jcamins Postgres does not currently work.
23:29 Irma1 joined #koha
23:30 mtompset BTW, thanks for the help with the indexes...
23:30 mtompset we are currently reindexing every hour.
23:30 mtompset And I haven't lost the ability to search year. :)
23:30 mtompset search yet.
23:32 mtompset I should rotate the error logs, so I can look at fresh bugs.
23:32 jcamins mtompset: why don't you just have it index only the new stuff every ten minutes?
23:32 mtompset Because -z seemed busted.
23:33 mtompset I suppose I should ask the librarian if he noticed a new entry after 5 minutes.
23:33 jcamins Wasn't your indexing not working at all?
23:33 mtompset Perhaps -z is working now that we fixed permissions and such.
23:34 jcamins I think it might work better now. ;)
23:34 mtompset only a full index and sometimes.
23:36 mtompset just have to remember to not run the index as root.
23:36 mtompset Otherwise it could break again.
23:37 jcamins Right.
23:52 mtompset running the make test.
23:52 mtompset just had to document the indexing problem for my supervisor and library colleague who is running his own VM.
23:55 jcamins A very good idea.
23:55 mtompset FAILED?!
23:55 mtompset Text/Accent
23:55 mtompset Test/Unaccent
23:55 mtompset i'll get it right...
23:56 mtompset Text/Unaccent
23:56 jcamins I had issues with that too...
23:56 jcamins sudo apt-get install libtest-unaccent-perl?
23:56 mtompset checking...
23:58 mtompset BTW, that means that misc/ needs to be updated.
23:59 jcamins It sure does.

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