Time  Nick           Message
23:59 jcamins        It sure does.
23:58 mtompset       BTW, that means that misc/PerlDependencies.pm needs to be updated.
23:56 mtompset       checking...
23:56 jcamins        sudo apt-get install libtest-unaccent-perl?
23:56 jcamins        I had issues with that too...
23:56 mtompset       Text/Unaccent
23:55 mtompset       i'll get it right...
23:55 mtompset       Test/Unaccent
23:55 mtompset       Text/Accent
23:55 mtompset       FAILED?!
23:55 jcamins        A very good idea.
23:52 mtompset       just had to document the indexing problem for my supervisor and library colleague who is running his own VM.
23:52 mtompset       running the make test.
23:37 jcamins        Right.
23:36 mtompset       Otherwise it could break again.
23:36 mtompset       just have to remember to not run the index as root.
23:34 mtompset       only a full index and sometimes.
23:34 jcamins        I think it might work better now. ;)
23:33 mtompset       Perhaps -z is working now that we fixed permissions and such.
23:33 jcamins        Wasn't your indexing not working at all?
23:33 mtompset       I suppose I should ask the librarian if he noticed a new entry after 5 minutes.
23:32 mtompset       Because -z seemed busted.
23:32 jcamins        mtompset: why don't you just have it index only the new stuff every ten minutes?
23:32 mtompset       I should rotate the error logs, so I can look at fresh bugs.
23:30 mtompset       search yet.
23:30 mtompset       And I haven't lost the ability to search year. :)
23:30 mtompset       we are currently reindexing every hour.
23:30 mtompset       BTW, thanks for the help with the indexes...
23:24 jcamins        Postgres does not currently work.
23:24 jcamins        MySQL.
23:22 mtompset       Do they set up your preference of MySQL or PostGre?
23:22 jcamins        Yup.
23:22 mtompset       Do the packages include setting up apache?
23:19 mtompset       We'll be sticking with Ubuntu as it has a broader support base within SIL.
23:18 jcamins        Up until a few weeks ago I used Ubuntu on my production servers.
23:17 jcamins        Nah, the Debian packages work perfectly on Ubuntu.
23:17 mtompset       whereas, because I'm using Ubuntu and shun using the debian packages, I have to take a couple extra steps. :)
23:16 jcamins        And mosty foolproof.
23:16 jcamins        It's very convenient.
23:15 jcamins        And automatically upgrade the database.
23:15 jcamins        Right.
23:15 mtompset       The packages replace the /usr/share/koha?
23:15 jcamins        Nope.
23:15 mtompset       And the packages basically dump into some subdirectory from which you do an upgrade install?
23:12 jcamins        (though right now eythian builds the packages that are uploaded to debian.koha-community.org)
23:11 jcamins        I build my production packages using the same environment that I use for releasing 3.6.x.
23:10 jcamins        Right.
23:10 mtompset       and you point it at the package you made from your dev system.
23:09 jcamins        So I install with apt-get upgrade
23:09 jcamins        Basically, except instead of using the tarball I use Debian packages.
23:08 mtompset       So you get a nice dev system patched up the way you want, and then you tgz it, and do an upgrade install?
23:07 jcamins        I use packages for production.
23:07 jcamins        Definitely not.
23:07 jcamins        mtompset: no!
23:07 mtompset       are they dev installs too?
23:07 mtompset       So, your production servers...
23:06 mtompset       koha has so many files!
23:06 mtompset       make is slow...
23:06 mtompset       grunt grunt
22:58 jcamins        Okay, two more patches submitted.
22:55 drojf1         it gets even crazier with the <track> tag for subtitles
22:54 drojf1         or i just have not found it. you can do something with javascript, i have ignored that so far
22:54 jcamins        Ah.
22:53 drojf1         i would have had an idea what to do with repeating subfields vs repeating the whole 856 field. but the repeating subfield part i thought should be used for file parts, because they have the same mime type and all, not all these subfields are repeatable. but i dont know ho to realize hat in the html5 tags, because it seems to have no equivalent there. if you put several files together, they are alternatives (same file, different format, like .ogg versio
22:53 mtompset       Though a friend of mine noted... Happy Perfect Numbers Day.
22:53 jcamins        Thanks.
22:52 mtompset       BTW... Happy Tau Day (6-28)
22:52 jcamins        Hm. schuster worked late today.
22:51 mtompset       No, I think he means, you can't just play it over and over... because you want to?
22:50 jcamins        drojf1: subfield order *is* significant so there's no reason you couldn't decide that videos were to be played in the order they appeared, if that's all you mean.
22:49 jcamins        drojf1: you can't just repeat... something?
22:49 drojf1         i bet loc and ifla will be very happy about me setting rules for html5 video and audio cataloguing in their 856 subfields :D
22:49 drojf1         heh
22:48 * mtompset     laughs.
22:48 mtompset       Create your own standard like GRS-1. ;)
22:48 drojf1         it would, but it appears html5 does not have it
22:48 jcamins        drojf1: why wouldn't that happen?
22:47 drojf1         i'm surprised there is nothing like a playlist where filepart01, filepart02 would play one after the other. there i go inventing cataloguing rules for field and subfield repetitions for stuff that doesn't exist :D
22:44 jcamins        Exactly.
22:44 wahanui        anything is, like, possible with enough development work :)
22:44 jcamins        Anything!
22:44 drojf1         make koha play video or audio in the opac if catalogued in field 856
22:43 mtompset       embedded video for what?
22:43 jcamins        Makes sense.
22:43 jcamins        lol
22:42 drojf1         yes but i might skip some of the crazy, unsupportedbynormalbrowsers-parts
22:42 jcamins        drojf1: still working on the embedded video?
22:41 drojf1         there is an ogg opus codec. yeah, i learned something today
22:41 drojf1         also having 4.x makes their version seem ahead of koha
22:39 jcamins        mtompset: LibLime forked the code back before 3.2, and did not share their work until Koha had moved on too far for it to be integrated.
22:38 mtompset       Why are the versions of liblime and koha not synchronized?
22:37 drojf1         no reason not to post that link once in a while
22:37 jcamins        He'll be back.
22:37 jcamins        Oh well.
22:37 jcamins        Oh.
22:37 drojf1         he is long gone
22:37 jcamins        http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_3.8_on_Debian_Squeeze
22:37 jcamins        It's sooooo much easier.
22:37 jcamins        Let me find the wiki page for you.
22:37 jcamins        Also, you should think about just using packages.
22:36 jcamins        Good luck!
22:36 jcamins        Yup. :)
22:36 skeggsc        Thanks. That would be my problem.
22:36 jcamins        skeggsc: you should get Koha from the Koha website, koha-community.org.
22:36 jcamins        skeggsc: yes you did, sorry. :(
22:35 skeggsc        Did I get the source from the wrong location?
22:35 skeggsc        Huh?
22:35 mtompset       4.10.X... that's a liblime release.
22:35 skeggsc        Hi, I'm trying to install Koha 4.10.05 on a Debian Squeeze server, and most of the tests fail during make test: http://pastebin.com/3XF67c8S
22:35 jcamins        ICU.
22:34 mtompset       Let's say I'm going to have Thai or Chinese characters... ICU?
22:34 mtompset       ICU vs. CHR?
22:34 mtompset       Here's a question...
22:34 jcamins        Wherever you checked it out to.
22:34 jcamins        And of course your repo should be in something like /home/koha/kohaclone.
22:33 jcamins        /dev is for devices.
22:33 jcamins        /home/koha/koha-dev
22:33 jcamins        Not /dev
22:33 jcamins        No!
22:32 mtompset       /dev/koha/kohaclone?
22:32 mtompset       dev here I come.
22:31 jcamins        If I'd realized he wasn't afk, I would've asked him questions.
22:31 mtompset       Sweet... I'm at the make stages!
22:31 jcamins        Aw.
22:30 mtompset       good night, francharb_afk
22:30 francharb_afk  good night all
22:27 mtompset       now to check the sax parser.
22:27 mtompset       okay package installed...
22:25 jcamins        [off] Now you're getting the hang of #koha! :)
22:24 mtompset       [off] I work from home.
22:24 jcamins        lol
22:24 mtompset       [off] I do, but no one will know if I take an afternoon nap.
22:24 jcamins        I hope you don't work on Fridays.
22:24 jcamins        lol
22:23 mtompset       I have skipped a day :)
22:23 drojf1         says the evil mastermind pretending to be jcamins and distributing crazy things via the repo
22:23 mtompset       It's 6:22am... time has become irrelevant.
22:23 jcamins        Not worth the time to add the apt repo's certificate to your keyring.
22:22 drojf1         ignore
22:22 jcamins        Ignore it.
22:22 mtompset       GPG signature issues.
22:19 jcamins        It means "don't record this line in the logs."
22:19 mtompset       What does [off] mean?
22:17 mtompset       doing an apt-get update.
22:16 jcamins        That was for the IRC channel.
22:16 jcamins        Yeah, no [off]
22:15 mtompset       type [off] is not known.
22:14 jcamins        Right.
22:14 mtompset       dependencies has a space after koha?
22:14 jcamins        Right.
22:14 jcamins        Then apt-get update && apt-get install libwhatever-we--are-trying-to-install-perl
22:14 drojf1         without the [off]
22:14 jcamins        It all goes on one line.
22:14 jcamins        That exact string.
22:14 jcamins        [off] deb http://apt.cpbibliography.com/koha dependendencies main
22:14 mtompset       ?
22:14 mtompset       [off] deb http://apt.cpbibliography.com/koha/dependencies
22:13 mtompset       So ...
22:12 jcamins        You don't need that /dists/ bit.
22:12 mtompset       right?
22:12 mtompset       http://apt.cpbibliography.com/koha/dists/dependencies
22:11 jcamins        So more than about three people using it at a time is guaranteed to bring the server down.
22:10 jcamins        Necessary because putting that on an actual server is still on my to-do list.
22:10 jcamins        [off] means that it won't appear in the logs.
22:10 mtompset       [off]?
22:09 jcamins        Oh, missing one word in the copy. Add "main" after dependencies.
22:08 drojf1         :D
22:08 drojf1         /etc/apt/sou… how did you type that so fast??
22:08 jcamins        /etc/apt/sources.list
22:08 jcamins        I need to move that onto something other than a spare server, so I can link it on the wiki.
22:08 mtompset       okay... what file do I edit where to add this?
22:07 drojf1         just saying…
22:07 drojf1         [off] deb http://apt.cpbibliography.com/koha dependencies
22:07 jcamins        mtompset: I already pointed you to an apt repo with the needed package.
22:07 mtompset       looks like a manual compile and install.
22:06 mtompset       series of uninitialized variables.
22:05 mtompset       The cpan failed.
22:05 drojf1         ok that helped. the patch does not apply though. yes i used git-bz
22:05 mtompset       ARG! It didn't work.
22:03 mtompset       They take so long.
22:03 mtompset       I hate man-db triggers and ldconfig deferred's.
22:02 jcamins        You were using git-bz?
22:02 jcamins        Okay, git am --abort
22:02 jcamins        lol
22:01 mtompset       Where's the like button? ;)
21:59 drojf1         sounds like the time. omg, it's git-am already
21:59 * mtompset     plugs his ears, "la la la la la"
21:59 drojf1         so many funny things i never heared of :)
21:58 drojf1         It looks like git-am is in progress. Cannot rebase.
21:58 jcamins        Well, if you're sure you're not in the middle of a rebase, do git rebase --abort
21:57 drojf1         actually i was just making a new branch to try the solr patch. but it was complaining about something before until i stashed my changes in the other branch
21:57 jcamins        Are you in the middle of a rebase?
21:56 mtompset       Shh... no scary git messages. I just want to make my first patch.
21:56 drojf1         "previous rebase directory /home/pi/koha/.git/rebase-apply still exists but mbox given." what is that supposed to mean?
21:55 mtompset       Yep.
21:55 jcamins        WWW::Mechanize? Huh.
21:55 mtompset       dh-make-perl is installing it.
21:54 jcamins        Yes, there's that too.
21:54 drojf1         there would still be the repo of jcamins ;)
21:54 mtompset       hey, there's the www-mechanize-perl thing you were mentioning.
21:53 mtompset       grunt grunt...
21:53 mtompset       38 more files to install later...
21:52 jcamins        Better to do it right than fast.
21:52 mtompset       CPAN would have been faster.
21:52 mtompset       YIKES! That's a lot more to install.
21:51 mtompset       dh-make-perl is another thing to install, I think.
21:49 mtompset       okay... here goes... it is Template::Plugin::HtmlToText not the - thing I said.
21:48 jcamins        apt-get is a wrapper around dpkg.
21:48 drojf1         yes
21:48 jcamins        Yup.
21:47 mtompset       will a dpkg upgrade nicely with apt-get?
21:46 jcamins        mtompset: and upgrade easily when it becomes available on multiverse.
21:46 mtompset       Yes, I have to admit the dpkg way let's you remove it nicely later.
21:44 mtompset       that do the build thingy.
21:44 drojf1         :D
21:44 mtompset       then quit.
21:44 mtompset       just let me get cpan configured first.
21:43 mtompset       CPAN isn't that much harder.
21:43 drojf1         ouch
21:43 jcamins        Also, the easier way is better because it makes maintenace easier.
21:43 mtompset       5:42am.
21:43 jcamins        It's 5am! Do it the easy way.
21:43 drojf1         heh
21:42 mtompset       That's interesting, but I'll do it the "hard" way.
21:42 drojf1         there is even --install but it did not work for me. --build and install with dpkg did
21:41 drojf1         learned that on the plack wiki page :)
21:41 jcamins        Nifty!
21:41 jcamins        drojf1: ooh, one step?
21:40 drojf1         mtompset:  sudo dh-make-perl --build --cpan template-plugin-htmltotext ? not actually cpan-less, but a deb package you can install or delete…
21:40 jcamins        Okay.
21:40 mtompset       I'll CPAN it, thanks.
21:40 jcamins        [off] deb http://apt.cpbibliography.com/koha dependencies
21:40 jcamins        It might be in the debian.k-c.org repo, and it's certainly in mine.
21:40 wahanui        jcamins: I forgot ubuntu 12.04
21:40 jcamins        wahanui: forget Ubuntu 12.04
21:39 wahanui        hmmm... Ubuntu 12.04 is frensh.
21:39 mtompset       Ubuntu 12.04
21:39 jcamins        What OS are you on?
21:38 mtompset       I was hoping for a CPAN'less install.
21:38 mtompset       template-plugin-htmltotext
21:37 mtompset       I'll have to CPAN a module.
21:37 mtompset       drat!
21:37 jcamins        Heh.
21:37 mtompset       ^in^is^
21:37 mtompset       I'm half awake. Anything listed in mandatory in my mind. :)
21:36 jcamins        I told you it shouldn't be mandatory.
21:36 mtompset       Oh... it isn't required... the CHI had mandatory no, but it was listed.
21:33 mtompset       Also, why did the packages selection upgrade my kernel?
21:32 jcamins        I've never had problems, not even with a netbook.
21:31 mtompset       the previous version and 24 required a rootdelay=120 in the boot command line.
21:31 mtompset       I'm hoping the new virtualbox version and kernel version work together nicely.
21:30 mtompset       The stupid things you do when you're half-awake.
21:30 mtompset       And I pressed CTRL-S to page up... and forgot to press CTRL-Q.
21:29 jcamins        No, I mean, no wonder the CHI install took so long... you haven't finished the whole upgrade reboot upgrade reboot process. ;)
21:29 mtompset       on the USB drive.
21:29 mtompset       16GB VM drive.
21:28 mtompset       Fresh OS install.
21:28 mtompset       From scratch.
21:28 mtompset       YES!
21:28 jcamins        Heh. No wonder it took so long... you're also updating the entire rest of the system.
21:27 mtompset       AH... system restart required... the dselect installed a new kernel.
21:26 mtompset       CHI is taking a while to install.
21:25 jcamins        Exactly.
21:25 jcamins        You do all the installation up to the web install, load the data, then run the web installer.
21:25 mtompset       web installer?
21:25 mtompset       put the data in.
21:25 mtompset       so... dev install.
21:25 mtompset       Ah...
21:25 jcamins        So, say your database is called koha.
21:24 jcamins        No, you just do the dev install, and load the data into your database.
21:24 mtompset       Because doesn't the upgrade install need an install log?
21:23 mtompset       But I am confused... how can I turn a STANDARD install into a DEV install?
21:22 jcamins        So you should be fine.
21:22 jcamins        Well, you haven't done anything too foolish yet.
21:21 mtompset       So what you are saying it, that I should do a 3.6.3 install from scratch and then an upgrade install. :P
21:18 jcamins        Provided you didn't do any foolish like making changes to the code on your production system.
21:17 jcamins        Yes, the upgrade will be very smooth.
21:16 jcamins        Yeah, cache handling interface sounds right.
21:16 mtompset       You can see the logic I use to find it as a package rather than CPAN it in koha_on_ubuntu. :)
21:15 mtompset       I think I saw that in the aptitude search I did.
21:15 mtompset       cache handling interface?
21:15 mtompset       So 3.6.3 DB to 3.8.2 should go smoothly if I go from mysql dumps?
21:15 jcamins        Actually, I'm not sure what that stands for, actually.
21:14 mtompset       But they weren't CHI.
21:14 mtompset       and two others were listed.
21:14 mtompset       CHI cached something?
21:14 mtompset       CHI
21:13 jcamins        But still.
21:13 jcamins        No, having CHI is a good idea, 'cause then you can see if CHI will help.
21:12 mtompset       Can't hurt to install it anyways.
21:12 jcamins        I swear it wasn't when I submitted the patch that marked it optional...
21:12 jcamins        It shouldn't be.
21:12 mtompset       Yes.
21:12 jcamins        mtompset: it is?
21:11 mtompset       ./koha_perl_deps.pl -m
21:11 mtompset       it's listed as required.
21:10 jcamins        Unless you're patching the caching code.
21:10 jcamins        mtompset: you don't actually need CHI.
21:10 mtompset       So this is the CHI everyone is talking about.
21:08 mtompset       I really want to git pull and then branch somehow, make my change, and then post the patch!
21:07 mtompset       Still waiting on prerequisites to install.
21:07 mtompset       that's dumb. But okay.
21:06 mtompset       yes.
21:05 jcamins        Permissions get "stuck."
21:05 jcamins        You mean after reindexing again?
21:05 mtompset       okay... why did I have to restart the daemon to get it to work?
21:03 mtompset       you have got to be kidding me...
20:55 mtompset       Good thing we only have 39Kish records.
20:54 mtompset       Confirming that won't break it.
20:54 mtompset       Re-running index as koha.
20:53 mtompset       I should have thought of that.
20:53 mtompset       Thanks for the pointer.
20:51 mtompset       I hate permissions!
20:51 mtompset       That solves that problem, I think.
20:51 mtompset       zebra daemon is running as koha
20:50 jcamins        So you'll need to change the owner to koha, reindex *as koha* and restart the Zebra daemon.
20:50 jcamins        Okay.
20:50 mtompset       *.mf is root:root
20:49 mtompset       BAM!
20:49 jcamins        Then reindex as koha, and see if it still works.
20:49 jcamins        `sudo chown -R koha:koha /var/lib/koha/zebradb`
20:48 jcamins        Try...
20:48 jcamins        It is a bit odd.
20:48 mtompset       Does your brain hurt yet?
20:48 mtompset       yes...
20:48 jcamins        But when you used sudo to run the indexer it worked?
20:48 mtompset       No, the zebra daemon is running as koha.
20:45 jcamins        So you need to change the user in the koha-zebra-daemon init script.
20:44 jcamins        If it's working now, that means zebrasrv is running as root.
20:44 mtompset       Well, I sudo'd so running as root works... I should sudo and attempt running as koha.
20:44 jcamins        That's why I was thinking it was probably the user you have the cron job under.
20:43 mtompset       It's showing up now.
20:43 mtompset       what the ?!
20:43 jcamins        At least, that would be my guess.
20:43 jcamins        So chances are your cron job is being run by the wrong user.
20:43 mtompset       1.1GB and it is done.
20:43 jcamins        Okay, the problem is with searching not indexing.
20:42 mtompset       1.8GB and it's in the middle of the reindex
20:41 jcamins        Just du -h /var/lib/koha/zebradb
20:41 jcamins        Both.
20:41 mtompset       then authorities or biblio...
20:41 mtompset       ....
20:40 jcamins        /var/lib/koha/zebradb, I think.
20:40 mtompset       I'll take a look after the reindex finishes... just another couple minutes.
20:39 jcamins        With standard I think it's /var/lib/koha.
20:39 mtompset       where do I find it?
20:39 jcamins        How large is the Zebra database on disk?
20:38 mtompset       I'm running with a single -v.
20:33 jcamins        Nope.
20:32 mtompset       does $KOHAPATH need to be set?
20:32 jcamins        That's correct.
20:31 mtompset       what env variables need to be set? $KOHA_CONF and $PERL5LIB, right?
20:30 cait           ah sorry
20:28 jcamins        (I did not just knock down the apartment building and rebuild it)
20:27 jcamins        (network infrastructure)
20:27 * jcamins      just rearchitected his entire infrastructure, and now needs a break.
20:27 jcamins        Sorry.
20:27 jcamins        git checkout bug_8207
20:26 mtompset       I haven't finished the dev one yet.
20:26 * jcamins      thinks he's managed to follow, more or less.
20:26 jcamins        cait: this is his other server.
20:26 cait           a
20:26 mtompset       standard off tgz
20:26 mtompset       no
20:26 cait           jcamins: I think he did a dev install?
20:26 mtompset       wget latest.tar.gz
20:26 jcamins        Okay. Never mind, then.
20:26 mtompset       no.
20:26 jcamins        Are you using the Debian packages?
20:26 jcamins        You shouldn't run rebuild_zebra.pl directly if you are using the packages.
20:25 mtompset       yes.
20:25 cait           and your zebra files belong to the your koha user?
20:25 mtompset       I did with -v... no errors.
20:25 cait           to see if there are any errors
20:25 cait           mtompset: try with -v?
20:25 jcamins        *packages
20:25 jcamins        But you are using the pakcages?
20:25 mtompset       ^e^r
20:24 mtompset       -b -a -e
20:24 mtompset       I did.
20:24 jcamins        For example, running rebuild_zebra.pl directly.
20:24 jcamins        If you are getting a "No results" message, the problem is not RAM but a configuration issue of some sort.
20:24 jcamins        If the problem is RAM, the symptom you should be seeing is Apache crashing hard.
20:23 mtompset       then start.
20:23 mtompset       service koha-zebra-daemon stop
20:23 jcamins        Results not showing up is not a symptom of RAM shortage.
20:23 jcamins        mtompset: how did you restart it?
20:23 mtompset       It was running.
20:23 mtompset       I just restarted it.
20:23 jcamins        Enjoy your snack.
20:23 jcamins        :)
20:22 jcamins        matts: nah, I'm thinking zebrasrv isn't running.
20:22 matts          cheers
20:22 matts          gotta go... grab something to eat...
20:22 matts          increase shadow ?
20:21 jcamins        ^^ nothing to do with RAM. :)
20:21 wahanui        searching faq is at http://koha-community.org/documentation/faq/
20:21 jcamins        searching faq?
20:21 mtompset       Zebra reindexes, but I can't find the
20:20 mtompset       No, I'm being hosted.
20:20 jcamins        mtompset: you're having indexing problems related to memory?
20:20 matts          I'm sorry, are you from the past ?
20:20 mtompset       MB.
20:20 matts          MB ?
20:20 mtompset       MB
20:20 mtompset       We've got 512.
20:20 matts          what ? 32To of RAM is not enough ? Kidding, right ? :)
20:19 mtompset       This indexing problem related to memory issues is bugging me!
20:18 cait           hi nengard
20:18 cait           heh
20:18 huginn         cait: Quote #178: "jcamins: IIS kills kittens" (added by wizzyrea at 05:20 PM, January 10, 2012)
20:18 cait           @quote random
20:18 nengard        LOL
20:18 huginn         cait: Quote #77: "*chris_n wants to know if nengard figures out how to do 1 million things at once... and if she will release the source code or not" (added by jdavidb at 05:02 PM, June 21, 2010)
20:18 cait           @quote random
20:18 mtompset       Yes... And I've almost got the prerequisites installed.
20:17 jcamins        mtompset: shouldn't it be about 4am there?
20:17 matts          twice
20:17 mtompset       oh... I'm half awake. Didn't notice. :)
20:17 matts          I answered to the bot...
20:17 jcamins        lol
20:17 mtompset       how could you fail it if you provide reasonable answers?
20:16 matts          I (almost) failed the turing test !
20:16 jcamins        :)
20:16 jcamins        matts catsnack breakfast
20:15 cait           hah! i knew it
20:15 drojf1         :D
20:15 drojf1         thanks cait
20:15 wahanui        thanks drojf1 :)
20:15 drojf1         wahanui botsnack beer
20:15 cait           drojf1 botsnack cookie
20:15 wahanui        :)
20:15 cait           wahanui botsnack cookie
20:15 cait           mtompset: wahanui is
20:15 cait           lol
20:15 mtompset       who is a bot?
20:15 drojf1         :D
20:14 matts          sigh
20:14 matts          Am I talking to a bot ?
20:13 wahanui        matts: wish i knew
20:13 matts          wahanui, what what ? :)
20:13 wahanui        matts: what?
20:13 matts          wahanui, the cat *always* wants breakfast !
20:13 cait           matts: nice :)
20:12 kathryn        hiya cait :)
20:12 matts          there will be hdl, asaurat, christophe_c, Joubu, julian_m, Kivutar (former from biblibre) and me
20:12 cait           morning kathryn :)
20:12 matts          sorry
20:12 matts          cait,
20:12 wahanui        morning is a state of mind. or whenever the cat wants breakfast.
20:12 kathryn        morning!
20:12 matts          hi cat
20:12 cait           matts: who is visiting? :)
20:02 mtompset       And before that... there was only one: lcj. It did all three at once!
20:00 mtompset       Everything else is just too fancy. ;)
20:00 matts          old skool :)
20:00 mtompset       jump
20:00 mtompset       compare
20:00 mtompset       load
20:00 mtompset       There are only three commands in the universe. :)
20:00 matts          There's more than one way to google it ? :)
20:00 mtompset       :)
19:59 mtompset       That's what Google is for.
19:59 matts          eiro (former biblibre coworker) will make a few conferences
19:59 * drojf1       needs to learn a lot more about perl before he could go there
19:59 * mtompset     tries to stay awake for downloading and installation of prerequisites for Koha.
19:58 matts          topics are nice
19:58 matts          These two days of conferences will be coool
19:58 matts          But they had a late flight, so they'll arrive a quarter before midnight
19:57 drojf1         :)
19:57 matts          and in my house, of course :)
19:57 drojf1         ah yes i heard biblibre is going with a few people
19:57 matts          So I'm hosting a few of my fellow coworkers in my town
19:56 matts          It's the "Perl Days" in Strasbourg, France, starting tomorrow
19:56 matts          http://journeesperl.fr/fpw2012/ (warning, it's in french)
19:56 drojf1         hi matts. what are you going to do?
19:55 matts          waiting for the marseille crew to arrive to my place...
19:55 matts          Unusal time to connect, for me...
19:54 matts          hi !
19:54 mtompset       Greetings, matts
19:32 mtompset       Why would I watch football anyways? Canada never gets anywhere near the finals.
19:31 cait           heh
19:31 drojf1         exactly my ppoint :D
19:31 cait           mtompset: nothing :)
19:31 cait           well... if we loose... less noise
19:31 cait           using zattoo too
19:30 drojf1         cait: i do, even though i am not really interested. ard stream is unusable, zatoo seems to work
19:30 mtompset       What does soccer have to do with installation?
19:29 cait           someone watching soccer?
19:28 mtompset       I've made every effort to make it the other way around for Ubuntu. :)
19:28 drojf1         yes that is great for people that started using it in 2008. those people might have switched to a newer lts version by now. but why would you install that NOW? :D
19:28 cait           mtompset: the installation instructions in Koha INSTALL.* are usually better than the instructions on the wiki
19:27 mtompset       Not because I want to, but because it is supported still.
19:27 mtompset       Because 8.04 LTS is supported until next year.
19:27 drojf1         why would you want to use an ancient version of ubuntu?
19:26 mtompset       And it was only one tiny dependency that messed it up too.
19:26 mtompset       I tried, just for fun.
19:26 mtompset       I put that it...
19:25 drojf1         "DO NOT ATTEMPT TO INSTALL KOHA 3.8.X ON UBUNTU 8.04 -- IT FAILS!" <- lol
19:25 mtompset       It was there before I edit'd it.
19:25 mtompset       http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Ubuntu
19:24 wahanui        hmmm... page is too big?
19:24 drojf1         what page?
19:24 mtompset       Because... that is what was originally on the Koha on Ubuntu page.
19:24 jcamins        Why did you have it on your list in the first place?
19:24 jcamins        Yeah.
19:23 mtompset       So I can axe that from the list of things to install, okay.
19:23 mtompset       Really?
19:23 jcamins        So, yeah, you can use whichever version you like.
19:22 jcamins        mtompset: Koha doesn't use Java at all.
19:22 mtompset       JRE JDK... whatever.
19:21 jcamins        mtompset: JDK?
19:18 mtompset       Has anyone determined if version 7 of the JDK is okay (as compared to version 6)?
19:10 cait           :)
19:09 mtompset       a few more updates... and then I'm ready for a koha dev install.
19:07 mtompset       I think the git clone is done... time for reboot.
19:07 mtompset       particularly when the variable is undef or blank.
19:06 mtompset       And this triggers the same message that is being generated in Template.pm
19:06 mtompset       with some variable as a key with a value.
19:06 mtompset       because we have $template->param( ....
19:05 mtompset       Actually, this was where I was going to grep for \$[:alpha:]*\s*=>\s*
19:04 jcamins        Also, my example isn't so good because actually there are two different functions that depend on each other.
19:04 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7630 minor, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, NEW , Warning on moremember.pl about param without key
19:04 mtompset       bug 7630
19:04 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7352 normal, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, NEW , moremember.pl generates error in Template.pm related to missing $key value
19:04 mtompset       bug 7352
19:04 jcamins        We have see also, but better to use depends.
19:03 jcamins        Okay, that's a little different because I used a batch.
19:03 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7475 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Option to overlay authorities
19:03 slef           either, and probably mark the other as Depends or SeeAlso (do we have that?)
19:03 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2060 enhancement, P3, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Ability to import Authorities from Staff Client
19:03 jcamins        For an example, bug 2060 and bug 7475
19:03 wahanui        mtompset: I forgot both
19:03 mtompset       forget both
19:03 jcamins        mtompset: you put the patch on one of them, and update the other.
19:03 wahanui        both are port 80.
19:03 mtompset       both?
19:03 mtompset       yes, that's fine and dandy... but which bug report do I put the suggested patch on?
19:02 slef           mtompset: we cheer?
19:02 mtompset       waiting...
19:02 mtompset       Okay, while I'm wait... what if a single patch fixes two bugs?
18:54 mtompset       And there goes the git clone.
18:54 mtompset       hopefully successfully... no errors were given.
18:54 mtompset       Finally, apt-get upgrade finished.
18:53 mtompset       Have about 60MB free.
18:53 mtompset       They are both grunting along.
18:52 jcamins        But either one will work happily with 768MB/RAM.
18:52 jcamins        Oh, well, yeah, that might be a bit much.
18:52 drojf          not
18:52 drojf          heh maybe nor
18:52 drojf          the vm has 768mb or all together?
18:51 mtompset       Not for an apt-get upgrade AND a git clone at the same time.
18:51 mtompset       ubuntu 12.04 in a VM.
18:51 jcamins        mtompset: that should be plenty.
18:51 drojf          what os?
18:50 mtompset       Note to self: 768MB is not enough.
18:39 mtompset       Ah, the source of the pain is low memory in the virtual machine.
18:36 mtompset       well, it is more like pushing in the pain. But it is more like pulling in that's the direction it's going.
18:36 slef           at least you're not pushing... then if you slip, you get squished
18:35 mtompset       This tango with git is more like pulling a rock uphill.
18:32 mtompset       I was hoping is was a 2 minute thing.
18:32 mtompset       Glad that a thumb drive write speed should be faster than a hard drive... because this resolving deltas is slow.
18:29 mtompset       Okay... that makes more sense.
18:29 slef           if 8AM is now warm+light when it was cold+dark before, less artificial heat+light needed, see?
18:28 mtompset       Yes, but 8AM-5PM is still working hours... so light out and shifted hours means nothing.
18:27 slef           mtompset: fewer total people-awake hours in darkness, so less use of heat+light
18:26 cait           so that would be consistent
18:26 cait           I think we mostly do buttons for actions
18:26 slef           but I guess I could present a series of buttons
18:26 mtompset       How can switching on different days result in energy savings?!
18:26 slef           to let the librarian choose between ways of resolving a problem
18:26 slef           Is there a neat way to put a listbox into a warning box on the checkout screen?
18:25 slef           "This section of the act is controversial; some have questioned whether daylight saving results in net energy savings." -- http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Act_of_2005
18:23 slef           "The 2007 US change was part of the Energy Policy Act of 2005; previously, from 1987 through 2006, the start and end dates were the first Sunday in April and the last Sunday in October, and Congress retains the right to go back to the previous dates now that an energy-consumption study has been done" -- http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DST
18:23 * mtompset     smirks, "apt-get upgrade is still installing!"
18:23 jcamins        slef: I thought gmcharlt did.
18:23 slef           the one that should reduce it to below 200M, that I linked earlier
18:22 slef           jcamins: did anyone run git gc on the main repo?
18:22 slef           jcamins: mmm, yes, looks like one has to git init, then remote add, then fetch :-/
18:21 mtompset       Resolving Deltas... oh my.
18:20 mtompset       10,000 to go... YAY! Almost done.
18:19 slef           jcamins: oooh, now you're making me think. It might not be possible with git clone directly.
18:18 * jcamins      did not know that.
18:18 jcamins        slef: is that possible?
18:18 slef           too late, even
18:18 slef           mtompset: you could have saved some time by only downloading the branch(es) you are interested in... but that is probably too long now.
18:17 mtompset       50,000 to go.
18:17 mtompset       Woah... that was a blast.
18:16 mtompset       70,000 objects to go.
18:10 jcamins        Hard to see any other justification.
18:10 jcamins        I presume so.
18:05 mtompset       Nationalistic Pride? :)
18:04 jcamins        Right.
18:04 jcamins        There is, but now we do it at a different time than the rest of the world.
18:04 mtompset       Oh you mean the days are shifted.
18:04 jcamins        Cost a fortune in productivity.
18:04 mtompset       I thought there was only spring forward, fall back?
18:04 jcamins        Starts earlier, ends later.
18:04 jcamins        Yep.
18:03 mtompset       extra?
18:03 jcamins        And the US does extra DST for the past, what, ten years?
18:02 mtompset       Philippines doesn't do DST.
18:02 mtompset       It's 13 off in the fall? okay.
18:02 jcamins        Something to do with Daylight Savings Time?
18:02 mtompset       I thought Eastern was 13 hours off... it's 2AM here.
18:01 jcamins        2.
18:01 mtompset       1PM there?
17:59 jcamins        EST... UTC-4 at the moment, I think.
17:58 mtompset       You're probably right, drojf.
17:57 drojf          mtompset: they all over-subscribe. that is part of the concept. and it would be more expensive otherwise
17:57 mtompset       What timezone are you in?
17:57 mtompset       correction... just under.
17:56 mtompset       Yep... looks like just over 600MB will be downloaded in this git clone.
17:55 mtompset       Greed is bad that way.
17:55 mtompset       They probably over-subscribed their lines.
17:54 jcamins        I called and complained.
17:54 jcamins        Nope... cable.
17:54 mtompset       well, about a decade ago.
17:54 mtompset       That was like when I upgraded to XP SP2 over dial up over a decade ago.
17:53 mtompset       Dial up?
17:53 mtompset       That's scary.
17:53 jcamins        mtompset: city.
17:52 mtompset       Rural parts of the US still have really poor internet connectivity.
17:52 mtompset       No, I believe you.
17:52 mtompset       If it was that slow, I'd go to sleep!
17:52 jcamins        And no, that wasn't in Afghanistan. That was in New York.
17:51 jcamins        I hope to never do that again.
17:51 jcamins        mtompset: I have cloned Koha over a connection that felt that 17Kbps was a good speed.
17:51 jcamins        lol
17:50 mtompset       I don't know how I survived with only 384Kbps.
17:50 mtompset       Wow this is painfully slow over a 1Mbps line.
17:48 mtompset       But I bet you wanted to add one. :P
17:48 jcamins        Nope.
17:43 mtompset       There isn't going to be a secret handshake step that only the privileged few know about by answering 42 to step number X?
17:43 jcamins        No there will not be.
17:43 jcamins        Ah.
17:42 mtompset       If I answer "development", there aren't going to be other questions that the standard doesn't ask?
17:42 jcamins        Then what's the question? :)
17:42 jcamins        If you're doing development, you need to do a development install.
17:42 mtompset       Yes, that I know.
17:42 jcamins        Standard install creates copies.
17:42 jcamins        Well, many of them, anyway.
17:41 jcamins        Development install uses the files in your kohaclone.
17:41 mtompset       same questions?
17:41 jcamins        Yes.
17:41 mtompset       are there any major differences between a standard install and a development install?
17:39 mtompset       and I think I've made all the tweaks that don't require an install of something.
17:39 mtompset       installing apt-get upgrades
17:38 mtompset       git clone: 25%
17:31 cait           hi jcamins :)
17:31 jcamins        o/
17:31 cait           hi mtompset
17:31 mtompset       Greetings, cait.
17:31 * cait         waves
17:23 nengard        thank you! :)
17:23 mtompset       Belated Happy Birthday.
17:23 nengard        yesterday
17:21 mtompset       Did I correctly notice it is your birthday?
17:21 mtompset       Greetings, nengard.
17:20 jcamins        Hehe. Yeah, it would be.
17:20 mtompset       doing an apt-get upgrade and git clone at the same time is a bear on the bandwidth.
17:18 mtompset       cloning into kohaclone
17:17 mtompset       okay user.name, user.email, format.headers...
17:15 jcamins        It's basically rsync but it understand git repositories so it transfers even less data.
17:13 mtompset       rsync I understand... git push is another scary beast.
17:13 jcamins        And git push handles different SSH users.
17:12 jcamins        I prefer jcamins because SSH uses that automatically.
17:12 mtompset       So that if I upgrade install a development version I could rsync between the two.
17:12 jcamins        You can do that too. It's whichever user you prefer to log in as.
17:12 mtompset       I was thinking running under koha...
17:12 jcamins        For you, there's no need for those extra servers.
17:12 mtompset       Mine is one where I'm just trying to generate a patch or two.
17:11 jcamins        Right.
17:11 mtompset       That makes sense for your context.
17:11 jcamins        And I do have Koha running on the VM.
17:10 jcamins        On my VM, though, everything is done as my user.
17:10 jcamins        Right.
17:10 mtompset       The test servers run from the koha user.
17:10 jcamins        So they have test servers.
17:10 jcamins        However, my clients do not have access to that laptop.
17:10 jcamins        I am a Koha support vendor. I, personally, do development in a VM that runs on my laptop.
17:09 jcamins        Let me step back and explain what I just explained. :)
17:09 mtompset       since this is just my own VM anyways.
17:09 jcamins        mtompset: those are two different computers for me.
17:09 mtompset       Since I don't have the luxury of disk space... I'm thinking I'll just git clone under koha.
17:08 jcamins        I mean, I use git push to maintain it, but I handle it like it's rsync.
17:07 jcamins        Right.
17:07 mtompset       So the git is yours, but the koha one is really just a giant rsync?
17:05 jcamins        Those. There are two at the moment.
17:05 jcamins        But I just push from my own computers to that one.
17:05 jcamins        On my servers that I use for testing, I have a koha user.
17:05 jcamins        Well, that's what I do on my own computer.
17:05 jcamins        mtompset: I work under my own account.
16:51 mtompset       Would you recommend doing the git under the 'koha' user name, or the developer's account?
16:45 wahanui        git is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Version_Control_Using_Git
16:45 mtompset       git?
16:43 mtompset       And now for the VM reboot, and the git getting gotten.
16:42 mtompset       but related bugs with one patch is better. :)
16:41 jcamins        Any bug closing is good!
16:41 mtompset       related bugs closed is good!
16:41 kf             and hopefully closing lots of the related bugs in the process.
16:40 kf             jcamins: so I am going to work on it - only trying to sort out what needs to be done and how we want to do it :)
16:40 fredericd      thanks. that's it. I have this warning in logs
16:40 eythian        that patch might not be complete, details are on the bug though
16:40 mtompset       I wanted to page up.. instead... booted out.
16:40 jcamins        kf: ooh, excellent, you should fix it. :)
16:40 kf             and thought we could wrap that into a bigger patch working out some of the related bugs
16:40 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8315 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Passed QA , fix 'C4::Output 3.02' errors in Koha
16:40 eythian        bug 8315
16:39 kf             jcamins: I kinda promised paul to do something about the frameowrks - because of the changes for the maximal size of fields
16:39 fredericd      eythian: do you have bug number, I can't find it
16:39 eythian        there's a patch for it that I think is lined up to go in
16:39 fredericd      eythian: thanks, indeed
16:39 jcamins        I think my conclusion was that since it's only for new installs, it's not a big deal.
16:39 eythian        fredericd: tagging is broken in 3.8.2
16:38 jcamins        kf: yeah, rangi and I discussed it.
16:38 kf             what is not working for you?
16:38 kf             was at the hackfest
16:38 kf             fredericd: I did test some time ago for eythian's patch - it did at that time, but something might have changed
16:37 fredericd      Does tagging still work on HEAD/3.8.2? For me, no
16:37 * mtompset     laughs.
16:37 mtompset       "Language limit on Spanish returns Russian records or is it English"?!
16:37 kf             yeah, but deleting the obsoleted fields?
16:37 jcamins        kf: better that way than not at all. :(
16:37 jcamins        Thanks, huginn...
16:37 kf             but I am not sure we want to do it that way
16:37 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2280 normal, P3, ---, henridamien, NEW , authorized value for indicators in UNIMARC Framework at field level
16:37 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2559 normal, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Language limit on Spanish returns Russian records or is it English ...
16:37 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2514 enhancement, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , special default fields for MARC21 records
16:37 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=1218 enhancement, P2, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , New plugin for MARC21 replacement cost
16:37 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3092 normal, P1 - high, ---, frederic, NEW , Data values storage and use 100 bug meta-bug
16:37 jcamins        @query marc21
16:37 kf             yes, I saw that rangi did somethig
16:37 huginn         jcamins: There were no matching configuration variables.
16:37 jcamins        @search marc21
16:37 * kf           sends herself areminder email home
16:37 jcamins        kf: there's a bug for that.
16:36 kf             :)
16:36 kf             jcamins: remind me to talk to you about updating the marc frameworks?
16:36 jcamins        mtompset: yeah, I spent three months as a librarian in Afghanistan, and tried to offer help to LWB in an entirely separate situation.
16:35 mtompset       Okay. So, you are talking from experience then.
16:34 jcamins        [off] (and, so it's clear, I do not believe in proselytizing, I just didn't see anyone with an explicitly non-religious agenda doing anything of value for the Afghans)
16:33 jcamins        mtompset: with the exception of a few faith-based organizations (SIL included), I have no use for NGO "relief" agencies.
16:32 jcamins        lol
16:32 drojf          jcamins: yeah we talked about it. i already forgot i asked them, was slightly confused getting an email about "my inquiry"
16:32 jcamins        mtompset: not positive at all, no.
16:32 mtompset       I take that as not a positive, jcamins?
16:32 * jcamins      has already expressed his feelings on this organization.
16:31 mtompset       Yes, but that assumes that someone knows about all projects.
16:31 drojf          i suppose they dont have a million projects and dont use a gazillion systems, so i guess "a and b and c" would have been an easy answer. if there is actually someone who knows this, i guess there isnt
16:31 mtompset       You didn't ask a yes/no question.
16:30 mtompset       I have an archivist friend who was interested in that organization a while back.
16:30 slef           might be a good and a bad thing
16:29 eythian        sounds like they're not particularly organised in that manner internally then perhaps
16:29 slef           drojf: library without answers
16:29 jcamins        drojf: told ya.
16:29 drojf          ok, "library without borders" took a week to not answer my question about what library system they use. "It's not easy to answer your simple question, because it depends on the particular project.". nice
16:29 slef           no, not sure, indeed
16:28 mtompset       Are you sure it is a he? But you're right, less spamming.
16:27 slef           stop hammering huginn... he won't recover any sooner
16:27 huginn         mtompset: Error: timed out
16:27 mtompset       @wunder Subic Bay, PH
16:27 huginn         mtompset: Error: timed out
16:27 mtompset       @wunder subic bay
16:27 mtompset       cleaning up 97%... why does 3% take 97% of the time?
16:24 mtompset       then I can prep for koha.
16:23 mtompset       5 more minutes... should be to a fresh instal.
16:22 huginn         mtompset: Error: timed out
16:22 mtompset       @wunder AKLAN, PH
16:22 huginn         mtompset: Error: timed out
16:22 mtompset       @wunder aklan
16:21 huginn         mtompset: Error: timed out
16:21 mtompset       @wunder iaklanbo2
16:19 eythian        though, the site's working. Who knows.
16:19 eythian        I think wundeground may be broken
16:19 huginn         eythian: Error: timed out
16:19 eythian        @wunder wellington, nz
16:19 eythian        mtompset: wunderground
16:19 huginn         mtompset: Error: timed out
16:18 mtompset       @wunder bar
16:18 mtompset       Oh oh! It's late, and I'm feeling craaaaazy...
16:18 huginn         mveron: Error: timed out
16:18 mveron         @wunder Basel
16:18 huginn         mveron: Error: timed out
16:17 mveron         @wunder Allschwil
16:17 mtompset       Where does huginn get its weather data from?
16:17 huginn         mtompset: Error: timed out
16:17 mtompset       @wunder boracay, philippines
16:14 talljoy        hiya!
16:13 mtompset       Can't do much about humidity when Ocean water is swirling over the islands.
16:13 mtompset       Greetings, talljoy
16:10 mtompset       I think we have a Typhoon coming at the Philippines.
16:10 mtompset       Nope, not popular enough. :)
16:10 huginn         mtompset: Error: timed out
16:10 mtompset       @wunder laguna, philippines
16:09 kf             it was here... actually the rain is a good thing
16:09 mtompset       And I thought here was bad!
16:09 eythian        so sticky here :(
16:09 huginn         eythian: The current temperature in Brighton, Brighton, United Kingdom is 16.4°C (5:00 PM BST on June 28, 2012). Conditions: Fog. Humidity: 99%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Steady).
16:09 eythian        @wunder brighton, uk
16:08 mtompset       11C? That's freezing!
16:08 magnuse        ahhh...
16:08 huginn         magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 11.0°C (5:50 PM CEST on June 28, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 54%. Dew Point: 2.0°C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
16:08 mtompset       At least it's a reasonable humidity there. :)
16:08 magnuse        @wunder boo
16:07 huginn         mtompset: The current temperature in Loyola Heights, Quezon City, Philippines is 25.1°C (11:59 PM PHT on June 28, 2012). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 24.0°C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
16:07 mtompset       @wunder mnl
16:07 kf             it's raining.
16:07 kf             hm
16:07 kf             it started to rain :(
16:07 huginn         kf: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 27.0°C (6:00 PM CEST on June 28, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 45%. Dew Point: 17.0°C. Pressure: 29.82 in 1010 hPa (Falling).
16:07 kf             @wunder Konstanz
16:02 eythian        I can't remember how we did the upgrade way back when.
16:02 eythian        make sense.
16:01 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8289 critical, P5 - low, ---, paul.poulain, Pushed to Stable , Upgrading from 2.2 does not work anymore
16:01 magnuse        eythian: bug 8289 has stuff about 2.2 and MyISAM and InnoDB
16:01 slef           git gc --aggressive --prune=now, apparently
16:01 slef           http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/git-repo-size-restarting-a-discussion-td5612294.html#a5619904
16:00 eythian        this data is still importing. I hate you, InnoDB
16:00 slef           there was a discussion about this on koha-devel a month or two ago
16:00 slef           hmm, and stuff I thought I'd deleted :)
15:59 slef           and various bug branches
15:59 slef           hmmm, that's master and 3.8.x
15:59 slef           koha master is about 320M, not checked out
15:58 slef           garbage collection
15:58 mtompset       What is gc?
15:57 mtompset       The full packages compressed are around 44-45.
15:57 slef           git gc --aggressive
15:57 eythian        well, git includes the history, and this isn't compressed because it's a working copy
15:57 eythian        612MB I think
15:56 mtompset       I guess that sounds about right... the xvf'd tar gz was about that big.
15:56 eythian        that'll make it somewhat larger than it needs to be
15:56 eythian        I have data sitting in there
15:56 eythian        oh wait
15:56 mtompset       1.1GB fully checked out?!
15:56 eythian        however, it'll transfer less
15:56 eythian        1.1GB fully checked out
15:55 mtompset       Good... 15 minutes or so, I'll have a freshly installed OS.
15:54 mtompset       How big is the git repository?
15:52 mtompset       Seriously?! I was just looking at the Budweiser commercial a couple days ago, slef.
15:51 slef           jcamins: true, true.
15:45 eythian        zactly!
15:45 mtompset       That's what backups are for. ;)
15:45 eythian        pssht "data"
15:45 jcamins        eythian: and data consistency issues.
15:44 jcamins        lol
15:44 eythian        on the other hand, it causes upgrade issues.
15:44 * eythian      should have remained with myisam, it is a _lot_ faster...
15:43 mtompset       Some problems left unchecked become incurable. ;)
15:42 jcamins        slef: better to check now than find a problem later. :)
15:39 slef           jcamins: don't scare me like that! :)
15:39 gaetan_B       bye !
15:39 slef           jcamins: phew. pending_offline_operations and a couple of others are MyISAM but most seem to be InnoDB.
15:37 kf             :)
15:36 kf             hehe
15:36 kf             jcamins: I didn't expect an easy answer...
15:36 eythian        I'm going to do some experimenting with fixing that too
15:36 jcamins        :P
15:36 jcamins        kf: short answer: maybe. Long answer: maybe.
15:36 eythian        jcamins: yes
15:36 jcamins        eythian: but you'll still be missing foreign keys.
15:35 jcamins        kf: oh, that'.
15:35 eythian        that fixes it :)
15:35 eythian        perl -p -i -e 's/MyISAM/InnoDB/g' library-2012-06-28.sql
15:35 kf             nonfiling...?
15:35 kf             jcamins: the, an, der, die, das etc. being ignored
15:35 jcamins        kf: which sorting?
15:35 eythian        I guess so.
15:35 jcamins        That was 1.0?
15:35 kf             jcamins: any chance you get funding to make koha sort right?
15:35 jcamins        Oh.
15:35 eythian        no
15:35 jcamins        Wasn't 2.2 Postgres-based?
15:35 eythian        ok, that's explainable then.
15:34 eythian        heh
15:34 eythian        that'll be why
15:34 eythian        this was originally an upgrade from 2.2
15:34 jcamins        Aw. We should've asked Waylon.
15:34 eythian        oh
15:34 jcamins        eythian: I think it's been InnoDB since 3.0.
15:33 eythian        I wondering if it's changed more recently than I suspected.
15:33 mtompset       Ah.
15:33 mtompset       How do you change the default? Is there an easy way?
15:33 tcohen         the CREATE TABLE sentences include the ENGINE='InnoDB' param
15:33 eythian        from around the 3.2 days
15:33 eythian        this one is a plain default install too, nothing fancy
15:33 eythian        but anything I look at that's oldish, it's MyISAM
15:33 wahanui        another is probably http://macromedia.bsz-bw.de
15:33 jcamins        eythian: another?!?
15:32 eythian        koha is supposed to override that though
15:32 eythian        It is
15:32 mtompset       Isn't MyISAM the default for mySQL as well?
15:32 wahanui        slef: huh?
15:32 slef           wahanui: I know that!
15:32 eythian        where is this MyISAM stuff coming from.
15:32 wahanui        slef: The data on your hard drive is out of balance.
15:32 slef           excuse me for a mo while I dance into the server (you wouldn't believe the process...)
15:32 eythian        MyISAM for some bizzaro reason though.
15:31 mtompset       I wanted to be sure it was UTF8 period.
15:31 slef           jcamins: oh do I really want to look at this?
15:31 mtompset       yes, but that's why I purposefully did that ignore the client handshake mess in my configuration.
15:31 eythian        yeah, looking at this old DB dump, it's utf-8.
15:31 * Waylon       loves on InnoDB
15:31 slef           jcamins: I hear we need to be careful with that.
15:31 jcamins        What database engine is it using?
15:31 jcamins        Oh, here's something to check.
15:30 jcamins        slef: ALTER TABLE can adjust the character set.
15:30 jcamins        mtompset: yeah, but every single table specifies its character set as utf-8.
15:30 slef           not sure how many records, but it'll be painful to recover
15:30 Waylon         much as this is rather entertaining.
15:30 mtompset       They didn't edit the my.cnf
15:30 kf             because I normally end up doing things wrong first, and never managed that :)
15:30 Waylon         anyway, gotta go.
15:30 slef           any road up, yes, they're data in it
15:30 jcamins        And when I say "try," I mean they must've really worked at it.
15:30 kf             yeah, I was wondering too :)
15:30 mtompset       latin-1 is default mysql.
15:30 slef           then I wonder how they managed that
15:30 eythian        slef: I should think so.
15:30 jcamins        Someone had to *try* to get Latin-1.
15:30 slef           oh my
15:30 jcamins        Yes they do.
15:30 eythian        jcamins: working with an old version, prepping for an upgrade
15:29 jcamins        The packages don't use Latin-1.
15:29 slef           eythian: do the packages create the database as utf8?
15:29 jcamins        eythian: why are you looking at HTP?
15:29 eythian        slef: what do they do?
15:29 jcamins        slef: step 1) dope slap individual who did that. Step 2) use ALTER table.
15:29 Waylon         yeah.. how many records entered into it alrady, slef?
15:29 eythian        that takes me back...
15:29 slef           actually I'm surprised the packages do that... eythian is usually smarter than that
15:29 eythian        > Can't locate HTML/Template/Pro.pm in @INC
15:29 slef           kf: "IT Services" installed the server with the koha packages before we were called in :-(
15:28 kf             slef: sounds eew. how did that happen?
15:28 Waylon         yup. you too
15:28 slef           oh fun question... if someone has installed koha with a mysql database with latin1 tables, is there a nice way to convert it to utf8 or do we have to convert column-by-column?
15:27 mtompset       Nice meeting you.
15:27 mtompset       Have a good night, Waylon.
15:27 Waylon         okay, sleep.
15:27 Waylon         right
15:26 mtompset       Yes but then it doesn't complete to the perl Makefile.PL stage.
15:26 Waylon         ?
15:26 Waylon         VM save state/
15:26 Waylon         ah.
15:26 mtompset       I wish I was doing it in screen.
15:26 mtompset       I'm doing this on a VM on my personal computer.
15:25 Waylon         then you could detach, shutdown your personal computer, sleep.. wake up, and resume.
15:25 Waylon         you should be using 'screen' mtompset
15:24 mtompset       I want to get all the pre-installation steps done for Koha before I even think of sleep.
15:24 Waylon         its now 3:23am
15:24 Waylon         yeah.. been up since 7am, to do a DJ set.
15:23 mtompset       I suspect 2L will be gone shortly. :)
15:23 mtompset       Bed?! That's what the Mountain Dew is for... No rest for the wicked. ;)
15:23 Waylon         time for me to pack myself into bed i think.
15:23 Waylon         okay.
15:22 mtompset       They also partner with other organizations as well.
15:22 mtompset       quiet likely. SIL is involved in many language projects.
15:21 Waylon         i think sil came up on wiki as a citation prehaps.
15:21 Waylon         i was doing aspergers driven research on the Ainu language.
15:21 mtompset       Is that anything like Monopoly? ;)
15:20 mtompset       Yes.
15:20 * slef         froths at the mention of the Google-opoly
15:20 Waylon         in fact, ive been to this website before.
15:20 jcamins        Awesome!
15:20 jcamins        mtompset: oh, you work for SIL?
15:20 Waylon         hot damn, i was on the right track.
15:20 mtompset       Google is following in OUR footsteps. :P
15:19 Waylon         would be cool if you were part of the google language preservation project...
15:19 mtompset       http://www.sil.org/
15:19 Waylon         awesome
15:19 kf             cool :)
15:19 mtompset       We happen to have many libraries of materials, and Koha was chosen to be used.
15:19 kf             ah :)
15:18 mtompset       I don't work for a library, but rather an organization that does language development activities worldwide.
15:18 kf             mtompset: sorry, only curious :)
15:17 mtompset       Looks like rain shortly.
15:17 kf             mtompset: for which library are you working?
15:17 huginn         mtompset: The current temperature in Manila, Philippines is 26.0°C (11:00 PM PHT on June 28, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 25.0°C. Pressure: 29.71 in 1006 hPa (Steady).
15:17 mtompset       @wunder MNL
15:16 mtompset       :)
15:16 mtompset       Except that I don't get paid.
15:16 Waylon         now your part of the koha community
15:16 wahanui        it has been said that mtompset is a human being in the Philippines, and is having musical flashbacks.
15:16 Waylon         mtompset?
15:16 * mtompset     laughs.
15:16 wahanui        OK, Waylon.
15:16 Waylon         wahanui, mtompset is a human being in the Philippines, and is having musical flashbacks.
15:16 wahanui        Waylon: I forgot mtompset
15:16 Waylon         forget mtompset
15:15 wahanui        ...but mtompset is having musical flashbacks....
15:15 Waylon         wahanui, mtompset is a human being in the Philippines, and is having musical flashbacks.
15:15 Waylon         mtompset is a human being in the Philippines, and is having musical flashbacks.
15:15 mtompset       mtompset is having musical flashbacks.
15:15 wahanui        mtompset: I forgot mtompset
15:15 mtompset       forget mtompset
15:14 mtompset       I'm currently located in the Philippines.
15:14 wahanui        ...but mtompset is not....
15:14 Waylon         wahanui, mtompset is a human being
15:14 mtompset       A human being. :)
15:14 Waylon         mtompset, who are you?
15:14 mtompset       (To All The Girls I've Loved Before) --- because you said "like everyone else who's said that"
15:14 wahanui        i guess mtompset is not.
15:14 Waylon         mtompset?
15:13 mtompset       http://youtu.be/tOifaUXPk4g
15:13 Waylon         slow, ugly, and you most likely need to use a complete ssh route proxy if you don't already have a ssh server on the same intranet.
15:12 mtompset       I just had another musical flash, slef.
15:12 Waylon         yeah. IPMI is a horror.
15:11 mtompset       No more accidental deletions. :)
15:11 mtompset       And I added "Are you sure you want to delete that? (y/n) " prompts to my scripts too.
15:10 mtompset       Yes, but for now... -i is my friend.
15:10 slef           like everyone else who's said that
15:10 slef           you'll get annoyed soon
15:10 slef           no you won't
15:10 mtompset       I forever will put -i on my rm's!
15:09 mtompset       That's what I was in the middle of scripting.
15:09 slef           mtompset: backups++
15:09 mtompset       at least you didn't rm -rf your home directory over the weekend. :)
15:08 slef           Intelligent Platform Management Interface (IPMI)
15:08 slef           errr, not what I meant :)
15:08 slef           An Impi is an isiZulu word for any armed body of men. However, in English it is often used to refer to a Zulu regiment, which is called an ibutho in Zulu. The first impis were formed by Zulu king Shaka, who was then only the exiled illegitimate son of king Senzangakona, but already showing much prowess as a general in the army of Mthethwa king Dingiswayo in the Mthethwa... http://a.vu/w:Impi
15:08 eythian        we prefer "truthos"
15:08 slef           you don't want to do that if you can avoid it
15:07 mtompset       Now I'm part of the Koha mythos. ;)
15:07 slef           yeah we've at least one IMPI-using server... think I've used it once
15:06 Waylon         and yea.. SLOOOWWWWW
15:06 Waylon         so yea, if ssh fails, if the bare metal koha refuses to boot, IMPI is the only way to gain access to the machine.
15:06 * magnuse      never figured out how to register with huginn...
15:06 magnuse        thanks jcamins
15:02 huginn         jcamins: The operation succeeded.  Quote #208 added.
15:02 jcamins        @quote add "<mtompset> Tonight... I tango with git."
15:01 mtompset       It had a bit of a zorro kind of voice.
15:01 mtompset       Yes, but you missed the carbonation escaping the bottle as I opened it.
15:00 magnuse        yay, that sounds like a quote
14:59 mtompset       Tonight... I tango with git.
14:59 * mtompset     cracks open the Mountain Dew.
14:59 mtompset       Ah.
14:58 Waylon         basically, an esoteric concept of VNC, at a hardware level.
14:58 Waylon         the data center protocol/card that is a KVM
14:57 mtompset       I don't what acronym you were aiming for, or the meaning of it. :)
14:57 Waylon         INPI?
14:56 mtompset       IMPI?
14:55 Waylon         going to regret baremetaling though.. managing a bare metal server via IMPI is time consuming.
14:54 Waylon         okay, sent, with the suggestion that we baremetal one server, put our current koha on it, and dev on the other server, to bring us to koha 3.8, and then VM things.
14:43 Waylon         liblime--
14:43 Waylon         man, thats saying something.
14:43 jcamins        eythian: oooh. Good way of putting it.
14:43 eythian        Waylon: you are older than liblime koha
14:42 jcamins        Waylon: you're using a prerelease of 3.0.0. We have absolutely no idea.
14:41 Waylon         ?
14:41 Waylon         is 10 users, 5 sec delay even a reasonable siege
14:41 Waylon         of course, its never been siege tested.
14:41 Waylon         hasn't skipped a beat.
14:41 Waylon         current baremetal server is a 4 core 3.5 gb (32 bit kernel i think) machine.
14:40 drojf          we could sing, all together. the "upgrade to latest koha" song
14:39 drojf          Waylon: maybe send your boss in here for half an hour ;)
14:37 jcamins        tcohen: that's why I think that there's nothing that Waylon can do other than upgrade.
14:36 tcohen         (db on a separate server)
14:36 tcohen         the flow smoothly
14:36 tcohen         we already have 32 koha's on a server using 8GB of RAM
14:35 eythian        mtompset: aiming low, my laptop is an i7 :)
14:35 jcamins        mtompset: RAM is a way bigger issue than processor for Koha.
14:34 jcamins        tcohen: they already have 4GB RAM and 4 cores.
14:34 mtompset       I just want a Asus Sabertooth Z77 with an i5-3550 and at least 4GB of Ram. :)
14:33 tcohen         8GB RAM? 5 cores?
14:31 jcamins        Waylon: I can summarize it very quickly: "There is no way you are going to be able to solve any of the problems you have run into while running a hacked version of a Koha version that is many years old and no one else remembers how to use. Koha has continued to improve over the last five years, but what you have has not."
14:30 eythian        we are bringing some libraries up to 3.8.2, but those that don't do fines.
14:29 eythian        then you'll know the exact scope of the issue :)
14:29 Waylon         is there any chance you could write me an email i could forward to my boss, jcamins ?
14:28 tcohen         i even worked on the patches for those (signing, writing)
14:28 jcamins        tcohen: I think that's still working on 3.8, so you should be fine. :)
14:28 tcohen         and i'm prepared to tackle those bugs
14:28 tcohen         jcamins: we use suspension in days
14:28 Waylon         err.. that is new biblio entry <tables>
14:28 jcamins        Different.
14:27 Waylon         cause i have no idea how the marc and new biblio tables are different to the original 3.0
14:27 jcamins        tcohen: you either don't charge fines, or are prepared to work around the fine bugs?
14:27 jcamins        Waylon: having the same version on two servers is fine. Having different versions on two servers is not.
14:27 tcohen         our librarians are really happy after testing it
14:27 Waylon         suddenly, a bit bigger of a task.
14:27 tcohen         i'm really excited to go live with 3.8.2
14:27 eythian        doing that on one version is ok
14:26 Waylon         right.
14:26 eythian        Waylon: yeah, but if you have different versions things will go badly I expect.
14:26 Waylon         with koha 3.
14:26 Waylon         oh, this is actually working well, jcamins
14:26 mtompset       or whatever the appropriate SQL is.
14:26 mtompset       Oh, thanks for the reminder... I'll update the Koha on Ubuntu wiki with the DELETE FROM mysql.users where mysql.users='';
14:26 eythian        tcohen: well, the package issues apply to the database, so you're probably OK then
14:26 Waylon         nope. biblio entries are being done on an office server, so called production server. so biblios, biblioitems, items, everything biblio related is being replicated over to the internet facing server.
14:25 jcamins        That's the second-worst idea I've heard recently, sorry.
14:25 jcamins        You want to do acquisitions on one version and OPAC with another?
14:25 wahanui        well, Wait, is it only in items?
14:25 jcamins        Wait, what?
14:25 eythian        there's so much that could go wrong.
14:25 eythian        Waylon: that sounds like a terrible idea, fyi.
14:25 jcamins        Waylon: well, yeah, you'd want to upgrade your production server. I meant, test it on another server first.
14:25 kf             Waylon:  you are not doing acq on your prodcution server?
14:24 tcohen         and a DBA that has tuned everything for safety
14:24 Waylon         or would i have to get the production server updated too?
14:24 tcohen         we have a separate MySQL server
14:24 eythian        packages apparentl have issues with Ubuntu 12.04. It's on my list to check.
14:24 tcohen         jcamins, thanks for the advise
14:24 mtompset       You mean 2.9 :P
14:24 Waylon         can one do the acquisitions using koha 3, and the opac servers etc using 3.8.2?
14:24 jcamins        tcohen: remember that Ubuntu 12.04 has anonymous MySQL logins by default.
14:23 * tcohen       is setting a fat 12.04 VPS for upgrading our production kohas to 3.8.2
14:22 magnuse        hehe
14:22 * wizzyrea     giggles about working on widows.
14:22 Waylon         it worked.
14:22 Waylon         yes, i started with koha on windows.
14:22 * magnuse      shudders too
14:22 jcamins        kf: let's not speak about that, please. ;)
14:22 * jcamins      shudders.
14:22 kf             not to speak about libraries still installing 2.2 because it works on widows :(
14:22 jcamins        Run upgrade scripts.
14:22 jcamins        Waylon: very easy. Install new Koha version on different server. Load uold data.
14:22 tcohen         hi magnuse
14:22 magnuse        hiya tcohen
14:21 magnuse        even hlt, the original koha library, was left behind for a looong time - it worked for them so why upgrade? :-)
14:21 Waylon         okay.. data wise, whats the upgrade path from 3.0 to 3.8 like?
14:20 slef           Waylon: indeed. Lots of places install koha and don't take out a support contract or allocate any of their own IT workers to do upgrades. If it works for them, that's fine. If it doesn't, it rather limits their support options.
14:20 * magnuse      too
14:20 eythian        I did one of those a year or two ago
14:20 Waylon         wow.
14:20 magnuse        paul_p recently did an upgrade from 2.2.x :-)
14:19 Waylon         hmm? mandumah is not the only one to use old code, slef ?
14:19 eythian        ah right :) I got lots by default
14:19 jcamins        eythian: I only assign bugs that I am *definitely* patching to myself.
14:18 eythian        jcamins: only 15? luxury!
14:18 * slef         should be paid to replace some antiques next month
14:18 * slef         smiles at Waylon
14:18 jcamins        The trick to encouraging that to happen is lots of cheerful reminders to people who care about related functionality.
14:18 jcamins        If you provide a patch for a bug like this, there's a very good chance somewhere will test and sign off on it in the next two months.
14:18 kf             mtompset: the next step is somone else testing your patch, than it moves on to qa if it's good and after that it pushed into Koha
14:17 kf             mtompset: yes
14:17 kf             not that people don't want to fix bugs
14:17 mtompset       So, if I provide a patch, it is quite likely to speed up the process?
14:17 kf             yeah, it's also a big time problem
14:17 * kf           got a long list for testing!
14:17 jcamins        There are numerous others that I would like to work on.
14:17 kf             and he is writing patches like crazy :)
14:17 jcamins        I have 15 bugs assigned to me that don't have patches yet.
14:16 Waylon         Sadly, im getting paid to work on an antique
14:16 * Waylon       nods.
14:16 kf             mtompset: most koha developers work for a koha support provider, so they spent time on things they get paid for first
14:16 Waylon         ^^
14:16 jcamins        If you don't submit patches, chances are the bugs won't go anywhere.
14:16 eythian        otherwise you're waiting for someone to care enough to write a patch for you
14:16 kf             yes
14:16 jcamins        yes.
14:15 eythian        very much so
14:14 mtompset       Out of curiousity, if I submit patches to the bug reports that I made, will that speed them up in terms of getting processed through?
14:12 mtompset       (The Beatles - Money)
14:11 * mtompset     has a musical flashback: http://youtu.be/9k5ooaufrLM
14:06 kf             hey!
14:06 * mtompset     smirks.
14:06 * slef         forms a dependency on kf... send me money :)
14:05 kf             I didn't cpan the chi modules
14:05 kf             I suspect I am missing a dependency
14:05 kf             jcamins: perhaps because you have all modules installed?
14:05 jcamins        Not even with pbuilder.
14:05 jcamins        The problem is I can't seem to duplicate it.
14:05 jcamins        I'll track down the problem when I can.
14:04 kf             schuster: so doesn't matter if I break it
14:04 kf             schuster: no guarantees - I didn't figure out why it failed and it's only a dev system for me
14:04 schuster       kf thanks for the advice - I'm always hesitant to move forward even on my test system with "testing" doesn't complete.
14:02 jcamins        Waylon: not as big a difference as using a version of the system that we could help you with.
13:59 eythian        Impossible to say
13:59 Waylon         2 gig make a big difference?
13:59 Waylon         I could adjust the vm's, give 6 gig each to koha vm, and only 1.5 gig each to the dev vms.
13:58 eythian        yeah, I think the records I was comparing to are a bit smaller
13:58 Waylon         and a very fleshed out marcxml
13:57 Waylon         each biblio has a biblioitems and at least one item.
13:57 eythian        OK, not too far off
13:57 Waylon         162071 biblios
13:57 eythian        I should expect ~250,000 records for that zebra size.
13:56 eythian        is it proportional to the 5.1GB?
13:56 Waylon         hmm.. no idea.
13:56 eythian        yeah, but how many records do you have?
13:55 Waylon         register directory is 5.1 gigabytes
13:55 eythian        How many records do you have?
13:55 eythian        it really shouldn't.
13:55 Waylon         zebrasrv spending alot of io time.
13:55 eythian        ?
13:55 eythian        does iotop tell you anything useful>
13:54 Waylon         so yea, i see zebrasrv spending alot of time... perl spending alot of time, and by the time it gets back to the return, its sometimes too late.
13:53 Waylon         ahh yea
13:53 eythian        though not in 3.0 :)
13:53 eythian        Waylon: memcache does caching
13:53 Waylon         kf: caching? zebrasrv does caching?
13:53 eythian        Waylon: hash 'em with a secret
13:52 kf             but I did activate dom indexing and icu - looking forward to test it out :)
13:52 kf             schuster: I did not activate caching tho
13:52 Waylon         or at least make them so someone can't just wget and increment biblio numbers to download the entire library.
13:52 kf             schuster: yes
13:51 Waylon         yea.
13:51 drojf          aaah you are the guy that wanted to encrypt the biblio ids or something a short time ago?
13:51 Waylon         very nicely marc'ed up
13:51 Waylon         pdf format.
13:50 Waylon         flagship project is the digital library archive of thousands of arabic journals.
13:50 drojf          ok
13:50 Waylon         no, its a digital services vendor.
13:50 * eythian      is not convinced moving to PHP is "growing"
13:50 Waylon         google translate does okay on it.
13:50 drojf          heh that site is a bit too much arabic for me to understand. but it's a university?
13:49 mtompset       You aren't a salaried employee which could be expected to grow professionally and just do it.
13:49 Waylon         and my god.... its a whole different philosophy
13:49 schuster       kf - so you just did the make install and went on and things mostly work?
13:49 Waylon         well OJS is PHP.
13:49 mtompset       oh
13:49 mtompset       why would you be out of a job?
13:49 Waylon         online part-time contracting, for Mandumah.com
13:48 drojf          Waylon: where do you work?
13:48 kf             schuster: no, I just continued without completing it - but it's my test installation, so I can mess that up as much as I want :)
13:48 Waylon         Meh.. prehaps too difficult a task, being stuck in this mess.
13:48 schuster       kf did you get your test to complete?
13:47 Waylon         Of course, if they go to OJS, ill be out of a job.
13:47 kf             at least it looks like it :)
13:47 Waylon         honestly, no, its more a digital library archive.
13:46 kf             mtompset: as I see it from the feature list Waylon is using koha not as an ILS
13:46 jcamins        Waylon: to be honest, I think you'd be better off going to OpenJournal than insisting on using the mess you have now. :(
13:44 mtompset       Why look into something else, when a newer FREE version of the existing software exists?
13:44 Waylon         PHP brainrot.
13:43 Waylon         i think its going to take ages to get to modern koha... and boss is looking into OpenJournal or something.
13:42 jcamins        *After* the sow's ear has already decomposed.
13:42 mtompset       to put it nicely.
13:42 jcamins        Quite possibly, but you are trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
13:42 Waylon         admittedly, it was some time ago that I found this out, maybe it was a problem with koha 3.0.0.094 that i never fixed?
13:41 jcamins        schuster: I see no reason for hopelessness wrt the cache.
13:41 jcamins        schuster: Waylon. I'm trying your problem.
13:41 kf             jcamins: also lots of complaints about cachng when running make test
13:41 jcamins        I am not joking. There is no hope that you are going to be able to resolve this without upgrading to a version of Koha from within the last year.
13:41 kf             jcamins: I had the same problem with running the tests yesterday
13:41 mtompset       if you are using ubuntu, then you dselect the packages from the ubuntu list.
13:40 schuster       jcamins - who are you talking to?  schuster or Waylon?
13:40 Waylon         yeah. found that without it, zebra would break for some reason.
13:40 jcamins        Give up on this.
13:40 eythian        why do you do a daily rebuild?
13:40 jcamins        Your system is broken.
13:40 schuster       comes up clear
13:40 jcamins        You do a daily rebuild?
13:40 jcamins        Or whatever it is.
13:40 jcamins        schuster: ./koha_perl_deps.pl -m
13:40 Waylon         thats not even including when we do the daily zebrasrv rebuild.
13:39 * mtompset     nods.
13:39 Waylon         the current system, vm'ed and load balanced, is responding only 94% of the time.
13:39 wahanui        Suggestions are broken at the moment - I can't accept those for German :(
13:39 schuster       Suggestions?
13:39 schuster       hmmm I'm trying to setup this dev system and it keeps failing at "Tried to use 'Koha::Cache::Memcached'  "Tests were run but no plan was declared and done_testing() was not seen.  FAILED and stops.
13:38 jcamins        Waylon: all Koha DBs should be in utf-8. Koha does not like DBs in any character set other than utf-8.
13:38 jcamins        mtompset++ # this is the way to do it.
13:38 mtompset       And then switch VM's once everyone is happy.
13:38 mtompset       Set up a newer system.
13:38 jcamins        So, basically you have hacked together a lot of Koha's current features.
13:37 mtompset       If the current system isn't a VM, VM it.
13:37 Waylon         and zebra searches for stuff + limit by branch
13:37 * jcamins      shrugs.
13:37 jcamins        mtompset: apparently back pre-3.0 it didn't work the way it does now?
13:37 Waylon         yeah. items belong to branches, or libraries.
13:37 mtompset       That sounds like what someone was talking about in the koha-developer list recently.
13:37 jcamins        I don't think *anything* in those four pages I sent you would be suitable for 3.0.
13:36 mtompset       abuse of the branch table?
13:36 Waylon         our db is in utf8
13:36 schuster       Waylon  - there has been a ton of development for right to left and Unicode that you could probably take advantage of now that were not in 3.0 and with PLACK and TT performance issues would dry up and you would be current on code.
13:36 jcamins        What you described is done by Koha, other than the analytics.
13:36 Oak            hello kf :)
13:36 Waylon         hmm?
13:36 jcamins        Waylon: so you need to add some analytics features to current Koha.
13:35 Waylon         I think theres some arabic mods also.
13:35 huginn         kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 27.8°C (3:30 PM CEST on June 28, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 54%. Dew Point: 18.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady).
13:35 kf             @wunder Konstanz
13:35 Waylon         ricted to certain branches...
13:35 Waylon         okay.. lemme see... access restrictions based on ip range, referer, download urls that go to a opac-download page, count the number of downloads against the borrower (in our version of koha, a borrower represents all of a university), counts the number of logins that borrower does, ip range access blacklisting, hmm... abuse of the branch table to create seperate libraries, one can search all at once or just one of them, borrowers can be rest
13:35 jcamins        Also, http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Performance
13:35 mtompset       might lose connectivity...
13:35 jcamins        Waylon: the following pages on the wiki are relevant to performance tuning, but not for 3.0: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Tuning_Guide, http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Tuning, http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Plack
13:34 eythian        jcamins: the wahanui update format is "no wahanui, something is something else"
13:34 jcamins        :)
13:33 jcamins        Wait a minute! I've heard of mandumah.
13:33 schuster       Waylon - There are demos that you can look at on the koha community site for comparison without installing etc...  You know we all here are more than happy to respond as well to questions of current functionality.
13:33 eythian        and those 5 are usually deal with client-specific CSS etc.
13:32 eythian        Yeah, when I do a 3.4/3.6->3.8 upgrade, I usually cut the custom patches from 30 down to about 5.
13:31 drojf          Waylon: what local changes do you have that koha does not have now in some form that you rely on?
13:31 mtompset       OH MY! !#!@$ That's horrid.
13:31 jcamins        schuster: super easy.
13:31 Waylon         so its a mess.
13:31 schuster       jcamins - is it hard to setup?  from what you just said I would probably not run it then in dev mode thanks.
13:31 jcamins        (depending on what I'm testing)
13:31 Waylon         koha 3.0.0.094 with patches imported from later versions, without git updating.
13:31 jcamins        schuster: I use memcached in production, and have it configured on my development server, but manually shut it down when testing things.
13:31 schuster       Waylon - there are sooo many new features and functionality in Koha have you done a comparison of features to determine what you would have to "rebuild" vs what has already been integrated?
13:30 mtompset       What version are you running?
13:30 * Waylon       hasn't even looked at the new koha code.
13:30 schuster       you go jcamins!
13:30 Waylon         33rd developer and im stranded in old code.
13:30 jcamins        It's not perfect.
13:30 jcamins        Oh well.
13:30 wahanui        Waylon: tell wahanui's bosses that the performance issue is because of the version, and there's no way to improve it unless they shell out to get the local modifications integrated.
13:30 jcamins        Waylon?
13:30 jcamins        Waylon
13:30 jcamins        waylon!
13:30 jcamins        waylon
13:29 wahanui        OK, jcamins.
13:29 jcamins        wahanui: Waylon is <reply>Waylon: tell your bosses that the performance issue is because of the version, and there's no way to improve it unless they shell out to get the local modifications integrated.
13:29 wahanui        jcamins: I forgot waylon
13:29 jcamins        forget waylon
13:29 wahanui        ...but waylon is the 33rd contributor to Koha. Currently works for Mandumah.com....
13:29 jcamins        wahanui: no, Waylon is <reply>Waylon: tell your bosses that the performance issue is because of the version, and there's no way to improve it unless they shell out to get the local modifications integrated.
13:29 schuster       I'm working on putting together a "FRESH" debian 3.8 install for development and when I get to the memcached server question do I still want to say no?  I have not played with that yet.
13:29 wahanui        ...but waylon is the 33rd contributor to Koha. Currently works for Mandumah.com....
13:29 jcamins        wahanui: Waylon is <reply>Waylon: tell your bosses that the performance issue is because of the version, and there's no way to improve it unless they shell out to get the local modifications integrated.5D
13:29 jcamins        That would've been even cooler.
13:28 jcamins        lol
13:28 eythian        hehe
13:28 Waylon         oh.. i thought that was the bot.
13:28 jcamins        You will not be wrong.
13:28 jcamins        No, seriously.
13:28 Waylon         hahaha!
13:28 jcamins        Waylon: tell your bosses that the performance issue is because of the version, and there's no way to improve it unless they shell out to get the local modifications integrated.
13:28 Waylon         Waylon!
13:27 eythian        yeah, I meant above that DB dumps is what I do do.
13:27 jcamins        eythian is giving you the instructions for exporting MARC, but I'm lazy, and just dump the entire DB.
13:27 eythian        in fact, it's what I do do.
13:27 eythian        that's what I would do
13:27 eythian        in tools->export bibliographic...
13:27 jcamins        mtompset: right.
13:27 mtompset       So, I could mysqldump... create the DB's, and then do an upgrade install?
13:27 eythian        mtompset: I think the export tool can do that.
13:27 jcamins        It is necessary.
13:27 jcamins        Not just worth it.
13:26 eythian        it'll be worth it anyhow
13:26 eythian        but, upgrade first
13:26 eythian        Waylon: well then give your VM 7GB :)
13:26 jcamins        Waylon: see above about premature optimization.
13:26 Waylon         backing up is again, piece of cake. lvm snapshot.
13:26 jcamins        mtompset: the upgrade works pretty much prefectly.
13:26 Oak            okay then, I'll start downloading 64 bit debian now
13:26 Waylon         hmm.. though, disavantage with going bare metal, is its much harder to recover from. with VM's, its an easy DD onto the lvm partition, and then start up the vm.
13:26 mtompset       I see where you are going eythian, but let's say MARC... I'd like to get my 3.6.3 data into a 3.8.2 system. :)
13:26 jcamins        Oak!
13:25 Oak            thankyou
13:25 wahanui        jcamins is A-Grade developper on Koha willing to rewrite it from top to bottom. Good Luck jcamins
13:25 Oak            jcamins!
13:25 jcamins        Oak: I only use Debian Squeeze 64-bit .
13:25 magnuse        Oak
13:25 jcamins        Waylon: I guess it's possible that part of the problem is that 3.0.0-beta2  did weird things with Zebra, but I wouldn't count on it.
13:25 eythian        mtompset: well, mysql dumps shouldn't be too different between mysql version, and koha handles upgrading koha versions.
13:24 Oak            :) okay cool
13:24 eythian        it's the standard architecture these days :)
13:24 * mtompset     laughs.
13:24 Oak            okay got it
13:24 mtompset       hey... code differences I can tweak... DB differences are ever more hellish.
13:24 eythian        Oak: there's no reason for 64 bit to have issues
13:24 Waylon         runs fine.
13:24 eythian        Waylon: that might be not a bad idea
13:24 * Waylon       is running koha 3.0.0pre2 on lenny 64bit
13:23 eythian        mtompset: that doesn't sound like a reasonable reason :)
13:23 Oak            eythian: i was wondering, is using koha on a 64 bit deiban stable (just like on a 32bit system) or are there issues?
13:23 Waylon         hmm... the servers only have 8 gig a piece.. should i just ditch the vm's, go bare metal, and get a third machine for dev/upgrade test stuff?
13:23 mtompset       I'd like to go MARC, so I can transplant to a different version of Koha without worries of architecture.
13:23 jcamins        mtompset: you can export the MARC records, or you could do a partial SQL dump. It depends what you want.
13:23 eythian        mtompset: in what way? marc or SQL dump?
13:23 mtompset       There's a nice batchimport of MARC records.
13:22 eythian        Waylon: you might benefit from giving it 8GB then, assuming you're on 64-bit.
13:22 Waylon         5.2.
13:22 Oak            magnuse
13:22 wahanui        okay, eythian.
13:22 mtompset       not the setting, but all the data (items?)
13:22 eythian        no wahanui, data is the plural of datum, not anecdote.
13:22 * Oak          waves
13:22 Waylon         entire zebradb lib directory, is 5.1 gig.
13:21 eythian        what do you want to export?
13:21 wahanui        somebody said data was here.
13:21 jcamins        mtompset: what data?
13:21 eythian        that's not a simple question :)
13:21 mtompset       Okay, simple question... how do I export data from Koha?
13:21 Waylon         mtompset, if your finger waggled even a little bit, log it.
13:20 eythian        without making things worse
13:20 eythian        it's hard enough when your changes are in version control
13:20 eythian        yeah, don't do that.
13:20 Waylon         oh hell yea
13:20 * mtompset     laughs, "I know you are right, jcamins."
13:20 jcamins        Waylon: that you can confirm for mtompset how painful it is to not keep your code changes in version control.
13:20 eythian        typically they're not too far off being able to hold in RAM
13:19 eythian        Waylon: how big is your zebra database?
13:19 drojf          semi-modern *giggles*
13:19 Waylon         and yeah.. i do keep reiterating that to my boss.
13:19 Waylon         what were you saying about me jcamins ?
13:18 jcamins        Waylon: I would reiterate my earlier statement that optimizing is premature until you've moved to a version of Koha that is at least semi-modern.
13:18 Waylon         oh, the db? no.. i mean ram for the dev/update test server
13:18 mtompset       3.5gigs?! Oh my... we have a SMALL database by comparison.
13:18 eythian        basically, if zebra is slow, I wouldn't expect solr to be better unless it's a configuration issue.
13:18 Waylon         thats the big question.
13:18 Waylon         no idea.
13:18 Waylon         possibly.
13:17 Waylon         3.5 gigs for the dev/update test servers
13:17 eythian        is your VM being an IO bottleneck?
13:17 eythian        oh, it's in a VM
13:17 eythian        how big is your zebra database?
13:17 Waylon         currently giving the vm's 4 gigs.
13:17 drojf          maybe you should throw a newer version of koha at it
13:17 eythian        how much do you have?
13:17 Waylon         maybe i should throw more memory at it?
13:16 Waylon         Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E31270 @ 3.40GHz
13:16 mtompset       oh, that is something to begin the coveting. ;)
13:16 Waylon         hi jcamins
13:15 Waylon         this is on a quadcore xeon something.
13:15 jcamins        Waylon: hey, we were just talking about you.
13:15 kf             so probably would still be slow on old hardware
13:15 eythian        yeah
13:15 kf             I think solr is fast, but you have to feed it with hardware
13:15 eythian        Running in a vm on a crappy netbook I got faster results than that.
13:15 kf             but there might be another reason than zebra
13:14 Waylon         so yea... not too happy about it.
13:14 Waylon         max of 25
13:14 kf             I haven't expereinced that
13:14 kf             that's a lot
13:14 eythian        But also a lot slower.
13:14 Waylon         15 seconds.
13:14 eythian        that is a bit older than my experience.
13:14 kf             15 seconds??
13:14 Waylon         this is koha 3.0.0.094
13:13 Waylon         so.. yeah...
13:13 Waylon         and an average of 15 seconds response time.
13:13 magnuse        looks like solr is almost ready to pass qa
13:13 Waylon         under 10 concurrent users, 5 second delay between search batches
13:13 Waylon         and yea, in iotop, ive seen zebrasrv instances hit 99% and stay for a bit.
13:12 eythian        I'm not sure if it's in master yet, I don't think it is quite
13:12 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8233 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , New search engine layer - introduce solr without breaking anything else
13:12 magnuse        bug 8233
13:12 drojf          is it pushed?
13:11 Waylon         its in master now though?
13:11 drojf          i think solr is expected to be in 3.10
13:11 Waylon         hmm...
13:11 eythian        I find zebra to be quite fast
13:11 Waylon         solr is an alternative index and search engine than zebrasrv
13:11 eythian        Waylon: I don't see zebra spending a lot of time on IO
13:10 Waylon         ?
13:10 Waylon         yea, I know.. but how fast/
13:10 wahanui        well, solr is fast
13:10 mtompset       What is solr
13:10 mtompset       I'll be running Koha in a VM.
13:09 mtompset       I'm under Windoze.
13:09 Waylon         How is Solr support coming in 3.8? and is it faster than zebrasrv? i find zebrasrv spending time in IO alot.
13:09 Waylon         hiya all
13:07 eythian        ext4 perhaps?
13:06 mtompset       And a reformat to NTFS from FAT.
13:05 mtompset       It's a slow USB thumb drive, but it should suffice for a koha setup.
12:59 mtompset       I'm setting something now.
12:58 mtompset       Thanks for the reminder, drojf
12:49 drojf          hahaha thats fantastic
12:47 eythian        http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/06/27/154242/fishpi-raspberry-pi-powered-autonomous-boat-to-cross-the-ocean <-- drojf
12:45 drojf          mtompset: but you could also just put a 8gb usb flash thingy in the netbook? that should be <$10
12:44 drojf          but i might be wrong
12:43 drojf          i think they should have reached the end of that soon
12:43 jcamins        That's why I'm jealous.
12:43 mtompset       months.
12:43 mtompset       But they are back ordered for like month.
12:42 * jcamins_mib  is very jealous of drojf's raspberry pi. ;)
12:42 drojf          mtompset: i really use a raspberry pi for development. its $35
12:41 schuster       git is still a lot of magic in a box to me but it is cool!!
12:41 mtompset       So, if you donate, I'll get a real computer. :)
12:41 kf             well... I probably don't know the cool stuff, but I love git :)
12:41 mtompset       As for a real computer... I work on a donation basis.
12:40 kf             drojf: you know you can ask :)
12:40 drojf          lol jcamins
12:40 drojf          but seriously, git is great, and i just started using it and probably do not even know the cool stuff
12:40 wahanui        well, a raspberry pi is arm-based
12:40 jcamins_mib    Or a raspberry pi.
12:39 drojf          use a real computer? :P
12:39 mtompset       I don't have the disk space on my netbook to set up the git test environment. :(
12:38 mtompset       Oooo... tough love? I feel it. :)
12:38 jcamins_mib    Just so long as you understand that not only is this a case of "I cannot help you," this is a case of "I will not help you."
12:38 mtompset       Of course... we'll see how that holds up on an upgrade. :)
12:37 mtompset       I don't. :P I'm not the average person. ;)
12:37 jcamins_mib    My point was that people who _don't_ use git need help reconciling their changes.
12:37 drojf          i probably dont know what you are actually talking about since i just came in ;)
12:36 drojf          i do
12:36 jcamins_mib    drojf: don't you use git?
12:36 drojf          :D
12:36 drojf          i never do
12:35 jcamins_mib    Believe me, they *all* end up on #koha asking for help with their code.
12:35 jcamins_mib    Lots of people have had this thought.
12:34 mtompset       And if I write bug reports, then I know which one's I have to fix again on an upgrade. ;)
12:32 jcamins_mib    Hint: functional is better than not.
12:31 mtompset       Yes, but the patch I'd give wouldn't be perfect... it would be functional.
12:31 mtompset       Well, one of my bugs got patched current. :)
12:29 jcamins_mib    schuster! Good morning.
12:29 schuster       But I am!
12:29 jcamins_mib    (he isn't here now)
12:29 mtompset       So far, it's been a small number. :)
12:29 jcamins_mib    Ask Waylon about this.
12:29 jcamins_mib    And when you upgrade (which you are going to want to do), it'll break again.
12:28 mtompset       I fixed it in my system. :P
12:28 jcamins_mib    It is about a million times more pleasant to use than CVS.
12:27 wahanui        well, git is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Version_Control_Using_Git
12:27 jcamins_mib    git?
12:27 jcamins_mib    Oh, that's just 'cause you haven't made friends yet.
12:27 jcamins_mib    Given how many bugs everyone already has on their lists, it'll probably wait for you. :)
12:27 mtompset       I don't like git.
12:27 mtompset       I've got a bash scripting fest to finish.
12:26 jcamins_mib    Aw, you can do it!
12:26 jcamins_mib    Now you just need to patch it!
12:26 mtompset       If I can't patch, I can at least write something.
12:26 jcamins_mib    Excellent.
12:26 jcamins_mib    Oh, you reported it.
12:26 jcamins_mib    Bug 8329
12:25 jcamins_mib    You should submit a patch for GetLostItems if it hasn't been fixed yet.
12:25 mtompset       even though I'm working with 3.6.3
12:25 mtompset       I know the bug is still in 3.6.6
12:25 jcamins_mib    I need to switch servers. This host has been having serious connectivity issues.
12:25 wahanui        bonjour, alex_a1
12:25 alex_a1        bonjour
12:24 mtompset       I made a suggestion.
12:24 mtompset       Can't... don't have a git source.
12:24 kf             mtompset: you can write a patch :)
12:24 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8329 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , GetLostItems in C4::Items.pm has a SELECT *
12:24 mtompset       bug 8329
12:23 mtompset       on items, biblio, and biblioitems, and authorised_values.
12:23 mtompset       It has a SELECT *
12:23 mtompset       Turns out that C4::Items GetLostItems needs to be patched.
12:23 mtompset       The only reason I discovered this memory issue while hunting for an inexplicable bug in GetLostItems.
12:22 jcamins        Also, there needs to be some option for relatively low memory systems.
12:21 jcamins        However, not until the solr implementation is entirely mature.
12:21 jcamins        Possibly eventually.
12:21 mtompset       So, in terms of solr, does that mean the zebra pieces will disappear?
12:19 mtompset       Low Ram usage implies the latter. ;)
12:18 mtompset       There other is apparently all-knowing, because it is infinitely fast.
12:17 mtompset       One is all-knowing statically.
12:17 mtompset       There are two versions...
12:17 mtompset       Mmm.... reminds me of "the god chip" discussions I had in university.
12:16 jcamins        On an infinitely fast system with an infinite amount of RAM, RAM usage would actually stay quite low. :)
12:16 jcamins        Right.
12:16 mtompset       It's not getting garbage collected quickly.
12:16 jcamins        It's just that it loads a staggering amount into memory every time it receives a query.
12:16 jcamins        It's not actually leaking, per se.
12:15 jcamins        It's the Apache processes.
12:15 jcamins        It's not httpd that's leaking.
12:15 mtompset       Is solr an apache innovation?
12:14 mtompset       you were just harping on Apache for seeming memory leaks.
12:14 mtompset       wait a second...
12:14 jcamins        It's a different indexing engine: http://lucene.apache.org/solr/
12:14 jcamins        It is that, yes.
12:13 wahanui        i heard solr was fast
12:13 mtompset       What is solr?
12:13 mtompset       a perfect programming language will never be used unless it is documented. :)
12:12 jcamins        Yes, that would make sense.
12:12 mtompset       it's all about the documentation.
12:12 mtompset       probably because there was more documentation back then.
12:11 jcamins        However, 3.10 is ushering in a glorious new era of DOM and solr.
12:11 jcamins        As far as I can tell, it was introduced into Koha after it was deprecated, actually... I'm not sure why.
12:11 mtompset       (well, work arounds for it)
12:10 mtompset       And we still have it in Koha?!
12:09 jcamins        Right. They had the good sense to deprecate it about five years ago.
12:09 mtompset       Okay... the way they did it.
12:09 jcamins        Well... I don't know that "standard" is quite the right word.
12:08 mtompset       A quick skim brings fear! That was a standard?
12:07 magnuse        mtompset: http://www.indexdata.com/zebra/doc/grs.html
12:07 jcamins        DOM actually works. :)
12:07 jcamins        Starting with 3.10, DOM will be available.
12:07 jcamins        The indexing schema that Zebra uses.
12:07 mtompset       I fear to ask, but curious demands it... What is GRS-1?
12:06 jcamins        mtompset: hey, a man can dream. :)
12:06 jcamins        At least, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)
12:06 mtompset       So, 3.14 we remove GRS-1 completely?
12:05 jcamins        mtompset: we've had DOM long enough that I can start removing features that work around GRS-1's limitations.
12:05 mtompset       What happens on 3.14?
12:05 hdl1           jcamins: ok /me saw that.
12:04 jcamins        As I said, my ideal would be to only do the update on indexing, but that's not really an option until 3.14
12:04 jcamins        paul_p: agreed.
12:04 paul_p         jcamins in fact, I'll push the patch, but I consider it's a dirty one. But as there is a lot of dirtyness in this area, it would require too much effort -from far !- to do it another way
12:04 marcelr        :-)
12:03 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6557 normal, P3, ---, jcamins, Passed QA , biblioitems.totalissues unused
12:03 jcamins        paul_p: have I convinced you on bug 6557 yet?
12:02 jcamins        My 25MB was from memory. I could easily be off by a factor of two.
12:01 jcamins        That's how I have mine set up, too.
12:01 mtompset       both are port 80.
12:01 jcamins        I'd believe it.
12:01 mtompset       Of course, perhaps that is because of our named host setup.
12:01 mtompset       Actually, I was trying to figure the memory use per query... it's somewhere between 40 and 50MB.
11:59 jcamins        1GB should work pretty well.
11:59 mtompset       I was going to suggest bumping it up to 1GB... It's a VM, and our host provider might not like going higher.
11:58 jcamins        Eventually they end, and your memory usage goes down, but on a system with 512MB/RAM, they'll deadlock and explode first.
11:57 jcamins        One Apache process is started for every single HTTP request.
11:57 jcamins        (I think)
11:57 jcamins        mtompset: each time Apache is started, it uses ~25MB.
11:57 mtompset       But jcamins, that's like 1MB leak per OPAC query... at least for a few of them.
11:55 mtompset       /usr/share/koha/bin/migration_tools/rebuild_zebra.pl -b -a -r
11:55 mtompset       I forgot the / issue.
11:55 mtompset       :(
11:55 * wahanui      does a testing dance
11:55 mtompset       test?
11:54 jcamins        Right, that memory leak is Apache. ;)
11:53 mtompset       And there seemed to be a bit of a memory leak too.
11:53 jcamins        If MySQL is using too muchof your RAM, it means that you have MySQL configured wrong.
11:53 kf             mtompset: how are you indexing your records?
11:52 mtompset       restarted them 367MB free.
11:52 jcamins        Without any doubt.
11:52 jcamins        The problem's Apache.
11:52 mtompset       stopped apache and mysql 468MB free...
11:52 jcamins        The problem is that Apache uses a lot of RAM.
11:52 jcamins        512MB won't be enough for production, but that should be fine for testing.
11:52 jcamins        So, pretty small.
11:51 mtompset       I think there is just over 39K items.
11:51 jcamins        I think maybe I got you confused with someone else.
11:51 mtompset       Probably not for you. :)
11:51 mtompset       Large for us.
11:51 jcamins        I thought you had a large database.
11:51 jcamins        Wait, how many records do you have?
11:51 mtompset       Considering a DB dump is 300MB+
11:51 jcamins        Probably not.
11:50 mtompset       So all our zebra indexing problems might be a memory problem too.
11:50 jcamins        That would be your problem.
11:50 mtompset       512MB
11:50 jcamins        mtompset: how much RAM does the server have?
11:49 mtompset       While hunting for my GetLostItems bug, I discovered a problem... the server is continually running out of memory.
11:49 mtompset       Hello, #koha
11:44 jcamins        hdl1: it isn't fully integrated into 3.10 yet. dpavlin is working on a patch.
11:23 jcamins        Probably not.
11:13 jcamins        I am not sure if rangi is going to be backporting it.
11:12 jcamins        hdl1: CHI is integrated into 3.10, but not 3.8 yet.
11:04 slef           eythian: thanks
11:04 huginn         slef: The operation succeeded.
11:04 slef           @later tell rangi could you put http://www.kohacon10.org.nz/ back or pass me on, please?
11:04 magnuse        http://blip.tv/the-curious-and-wondering-eye
11:03 slef           kf_lunch: thanks for the reminder :)
11:03 slef           kf_lunch: I think recordings were on blip.tv by anitsirk
11:01 eythian        slef: I dunno. Can't hurt to ask him, he'll at least know who to pass it on to.
11:00 kf_lunch       I think they were not on the same server, the video recordings
11:00 kf_lunch       hm maybe we can find the talk?
10:58 slef           oh well - I was trying to point someone at a talk from kohacon10 - would be nice to have it back some time. Do you think rangi knows about it or should I ask someone else?
10:50 eythian        I dunno
10:49 kf_lunch       from the server where it used to be - maybe a domain thing?
10:49 kf_lunch       I think someone talked about moving it
10:49 * mtompset     waves bye.
10:48 eythian        so he could be I suppose
10:48 eythian        10:43am rather
10:47 eythian        ah no, it's a googly thing apparently. I have no idea how that works.
10:45 eythian        if we host it, I might be able to make it work.
10:45 eythian        also, it's 12:43am there
10:44 eythian        he's off training.
10:44 kf_lunch       rangi is travelling - was at the airport yesterday
10:43 slef           [off] yeah should be better soon, which is why I'm back
10:43 slef           is rangi or anyone who can put http://www.kohacon10.org.nz/ back up awake?
10:43 kf_lunch       [off] oh no! hope you are feeling better.
10:43 slef           [off] I'm slightly ill. Sorry for my recent absences.
10:42 marcelr        hi slef
10:42 slef           hi all
10:39 marcelr        hi drojf1 kf
10:39 kf_lunch       hi marcelr :)
10:37 drojf1         hey marcelr
10:36 marcelr        hi #koha
09:56 gaetan_B       kf: thanks for the input, i'll keep investigating...
09:55 * gaetan_B     just finished his phone call
09:33 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8329 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , GetLostItems in C4::Items.pm has a SELECT *
09:33 mtompset       bug 8329
09:32 mtompset       That's a lot of name changing, chris_n. :)
09:11 dcook          longingly* OK, it's been a long day. Gotta go. Good luck with GetLostItems, mtompset!
09:11 * dcook        nods and looks lookingly out the window towards the shops
09:10 mtompset       You should have stopped an hour ago for supper. ;)
09:09 dcook          Thanks, kf. I admit that I'm stumped and it's 7pm here, so I should call it a day :p
09:09 mtompset       Anyone care to look at C4::Items GetLostItems and confirm that the SELECT is a horrendous SELECT *?
09:07 kf             dcook: don't worry, if we were using facets in a different way it could be the index
09:07 magnuse        Oak
09:07 dcook          *facepalm*
09:07 dcook          Right!
09:06 kf             dcook: for the facets the result list is parsed... there should be resulsts I think
09:06 kf             and I had results
09:06 dcook          I figure that there are either no PERIO item types with author Jean Kaminsky, or the indexing needs to be re-run
09:06 kf             I did a search and clicked on the link :)
09:05 dcook          kf you mentioned that records were found...how did you determine that, when gaetan_B said that there were no results?
09:05 dcook          I got this link to work as well:     /cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?&limit=mc-itype,phr:BK&sort_by=relevance&limit=au:Till,%20David.
09:04 kf             /cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?idx=kw&q=israel%20studies&limit=au:Neusner,%20Jacob&limit=au:Neusner,%20Jacob
09:04 kf             gaetan_B: I could only test 3.6.3 - there the link works for me
09:01 dcook          Ahh, wait. There I think I see how a person could get there...
08:58 dcook          It still seems weird that there would be two limits and no reference to the index
08:57 kf             probably translates to : p
08:56 dcook          I am missing part of that original link due to a smiley face that comes up in my IRC client
08:56 dcook          Hmm, maybe
08:56 dcook          The top one is missing the "idx" index
08:56 kf             I think it might depend on what your first search was thaat brought you to the result list
08:56 kf             the links do not look verydifferent
08:56 dcook          I don't imagine that would change the link though.
08:55 kf             gaetan_B: is probably using Unimarc
08:55 dcook          Yep. MARC21
08:55 dcook          Hmm, didn't mean to include the full link there...
08:55 kf             dcook: but you are using MARC21, right?
08:55 dcook          http://test38.intersearch.com.au/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?idx=au&q=Graham&sort_by=relevance&limit=au:Grahame,%20Kenneth.
08:54 wahanui        well, interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
08:54 kf             interesting
08:54 dcook          I have a 3.8.x install up right now, and the facets don't make links like that
08:54 mtompset       haven't upgraded yet.
08:54 mtompset       Sorry, we're using 3.6.3
08:53 kf             dcook: I think it's a link from the facets
08:52 dcook          Now that I look at it, I don't understand that link structure at all :S. How was that link produced?
08:43 * gaetan_B     on the phone
08:43 kf             working on my new vm :)
08:43 kf             gaetan_B: I have no 3.8.x installation I can access right now - maybe a bit later today
08:43 kf             it's a bit weird
08:43 kf             but the records are found
08:43 kf             hm yeah
08:42 gaetan_B       and indexing does sound like a very good candidate indeed ;)
08:42 gaetan_B       hmm if no one here has encountered it, then it's probably somewhere in my configuration
08:41 * dcook        wonders if it's an indexing issue rather than a code issue
08:40 kf             hmm
08:38 gaetan_B       kf: cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?&limit=mc-itype,phr:PERIO&sort_by=relevance&limit=au:Kaminsky,%20Jean
08:37 kf             gaetan_B: what does the link look like?
08:37 gaetan_B       it's corretly generated, but i never get results after clicking on an author name
08:36 gaetan_B       has anyone been having problems with the author facet in 3.8 ?
08:18 hdl            guess so
08:13 kf             hdl: I think jcamins_away would know - but it's a bit too early for him right now
08:13 kf             no, not yet
08:13 hdl            kf are you using latest 3.8 ?
08:12 kf             I think rangi is travelling - he was at the airport yesterday
08:11 hdl            CHI is integrated in 3.8 ?
08:10 hdl            hi paul_p rangi anyone on 3.8 maintenance ?
07:56 kf             good morning paul_p
07:54 paul_p         hi mtompset & kf & others
07:50 kf             hi #koha
07:40 mtompset       Turns out GetLostItems in C4::Items has a select * on a join with items, biblio, biblioitems, and authorised_values.
07:39 mtompset       If you have a lot of lost items... you get a ugly 500 page back.
07:39 mtompset       Home -> Reports -> Items Lost
07:39 mtompset       And it is a memory sucker!
07:38 mtompset       I think I found an ugly query lurking in the bowels of Koha.
07:38 mtompset       bonjour, paul_p
07:33 paul_p         good morning #koha
07:18 gaetan_B       hello :)
07:16 asaurat        hi
07:16 sandeepbhavsar kindly guide
07:14 sandeepbhavsar dear all I would like to delete one branchlibrary and the entire record of it
07:10 clrh           hello
06:56 matts          hi !
06:53 * mveron       has the head away
06:48 wahanui        hi, reiveune
06:48 reiveune       hello
06:44 francharb      hi
06:41 cait           ok, bbl
06:32 cait           some strings of the xslt files show up in translations - it's really possible there is a mistake there
06:30 * mveron       will have a look (later)
06:29 cait           does it work for english and has the same name?
06:29 cait           it's a possibility
06:29 mveron         translation typo in xslt?
06:28 mveron         It seems to be related to AV-Medien I suppose. What media type would PR stand for?
06:27 cait           it looks like one of he small images used in the xslt
06:27 cait           mveron: hm, maybe it accidently got removed while tidying up?
06:20 ropuch         Good morning
05:55 mveron         Koha complains about missing image file (...) famfamfam/PR.png
05:54 cait           hi mveron :)
05:54 mveron         Hi cait :-)
05:53 cait           dcook: :)
05:52 dcook          Hi Cait! Thanks again for that link to the jQuery library. It's been very helpful.
05:47 Oak            :)
05:46 cait           hello mr oak :)
05:46 Oak            good morning miss cait
05:45 cait           good morning #koha
05:20 mveron         referrer is: (...)koha/catalogue/detail.pl?biblionumber=9
05:20 mveron         koha-error_log: File does not exist: /koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/img/famfamfam/PR.png
05:20 mveron         Good daytime #koha
04:12 mtompset       Has anyone ever encountered a " Premature end of script headers: itemslost.pl" before?
04:11 mtompset       Greetings, #koha.
04:06 Oak            magnuse
03:29 * chris_n      looks around for someone to disambiguate "normal" for him
01:57 Oak            Ahoy me hearties