Time  Nick           Message
01:57 Oak            Ahoy me hearties
03:29 * chris_n      looks around for someone to disambiguate "normal" for him
04:06 Oak            magnuse
04:11 mtompset       Greetings, #koha.
04:12 mtompset       Has anyone ever encountered a " Premature end of script headers: itemslost.pl" before?
05:20 mveron         Good daytime #koha
05:20 mveron         koha-error_log: File does not exist: /koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/img/famfamfam/PR.png
05:20 mveron         referrer is: (...)koha/catalogue/detail.pl?biblionumber=9
05:45 cait           good morning #koha
05:46 Oak            good morning miss cait
05:46 cait           hello mr oak :)
05:47 Oak            :)
05:52 dcook          Hi Cait! Thanks again for that link to the jQuery library. It's been very helpful.
05:53 cait           dcook: :)
05:54 mveron         Hi cait :-)
05:54 cait           hi mveron :)
05:55 mveron         Koha complains about missing image file (...) famfamfam/PR.png
06:20 ropuch         Good morning
06:27 cait           mveron: hm, maybe it accidently got removed while tidying up?
06:27 cait           it looks like one of he small images used in the xslt
06:28 mveron         It seems to be related to AV-Medien I suppose. What media type would PR stand for?
06:29 mveron         translation typo in xslt?
06:29 cait           it's a possibility
06:29 cait           does it work for english and has the same name?
06:30 * mveron       will have a look (later)
06:32 cait           some strings of the xslt files show up in translations - it's really possible there is a mistake there
06:41 cait           ok, bbl
06:44 francharb      hi
06:48 reiveune       hello
06:48 wahanui        hi, reiveune
06:53 * mveron       has the head away
06:56 matts          hi !
07:10 clrh           hello
07:14 sandeepbhavsar dear all I would like to delete one branchlibrary and the entire record of it
07:16 sandeepbhavsar kindly guide
07:16 asaurat        hi
07:18 gaetan_B       hello :)
07:33 paul_p         good morning #koha
07:38 mtompset       bonjour, paul_p
07:38 mtompset       I think I found an ugly query lurking in the bowels of Koha.
07:39 mtompset       And it is a memory sucker!
07:39 mtompset       Home -> Reports -> Items Lost
07:39 mtompset       If you have a lot of lost items... you get a ugly 500 page back.
07:40 mtompset       Turns out GetLostItems in C4::Items has a select * on a join with items, biblio, biblioitems, and authorised_values.
07:50 kf             hi #koha
07:54 paul_p         hi mtompset & kf & others
07:56 kf             good morning paul_p
08:10 hdl            hi paul_p rangi anyone on 3.8 maintenance ?
08:11 hdl            CHI is integrated in 3.8 ?
08:12 kf             I think rangi is travelling - he was at the airport yesterday
08:13 hdl            kf are you using latest 3.8 ?
08:13 kf             no, not yet
08:13 kf             hdl: I think jcamins_away would know - but it's a bit too early for him right now
08:18 hdl            guess so
08:36 gaetan_B       has anyone been having problems with the author facet in 3.8 ?
08:37 gaetan_B       it's corretly generated, but i never get results after clicking on an author name
08:37 kf             gaetan_B: what does the link look like?
08:38 gaetan_B       kf: cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?&limit=mc-itype,phr:PERIO&sort_by=relevance&limit=au:Kaminsky,%20Jean
08:40 kf             hmm
08:41 * dcook        wonders if it's an indexing issue rather than a code issue
08:42 gaetan_B       hmm if no one here has encountered it, then it's probably somewhere in my configuration
08:42 gaetan_B       and indexing does sound like a very good candidate indeed ;)
08:43 kf             hm yeah
08:43 kf             but the records are found
08:43 kf             it's a bit weird
08:43 kf             gaetan_B: I have no 3.8.x installation I can access right now - maybe a bit later today
08:43 kf             working on my new vm :)
08:43 * gaetan_B     on the phone
08:52 dcook          Now that I look at it, I don't understand that link structure at all :S. How was that link produced?
08:53 kf             dcook: I think it's a link from the facets
08:54 mtompset       Sorry, we're using 3.6.3
08:54 mtompset       haven't upgraded yet.
08:54 dcook          I have a 3.8.x install up right now, and the facets don't make links like that
08:54 kf             interesting
08:54 wahanui        well, interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
08:55 dcook          http://test38.intersearch.com.au/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?idx=au&q=Graham&sort_by=relevance&limit=au:Grahame,%20Kenneth.
08:55 kf             dcook: but you are using MARC21, right?
08:55 dcook          Hmm, didn't mean to include the full link there...
08:55 dcook          Yep. MARC21
08:55 kf             gaetan_B: is probably using Unimarc
08:56 dcook          I don't imagine that would change the link though.
08:56 kf             the links do not look verydifferent
08:56 kf             I think it might depend on what your first search was thaat brought you to the result list
08:56 dcook          The top one is missing the "idx" index
08:56 dcook          Hmm, maybe
08:56 dcook          I am missing part of that original link due to a smiley face that comes up in my IRC client
08:57 kf             probably translates to : p
08:58 dcook          It still seems weird that there would be two limits and no reference to the index
09:01 dcook          Ahh, wait. There I think I see how a person could get there...
09:04 kf             gaetan_B: I could only test 3.6.3 - there the link works for me
09:04 kf             /cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?idx=kw&q=israel%20studies&limit=au:Neusner,%20Jacob&limit=au:Neusner,%20Jacob
09:05 dcook          I got this link to work as well:     /cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?&limit=mc-itype,phr:BK&sort_by=relevance&limit=au:Till,%20David.
09:05 dcook          kf you mentioned that records were found...how did you determine that, when gaetan_B said that there were no results?
09:06 kf             I did a search and clicked on the link :)
09:06 dcook          I figure that there are either no PERIO item types with author Jean Kaminsky, or the indexing needs to be re-run
09:06 kf             and I had results
09:06 kf             dcook: for the facets the result list is parsed... there should be resulsts I think
09:07 dcook          Right!
09:07 dcook          *facepalm*
09:07 magnuse        Oak
09:07 kf             dcook: don't worry, if we were using facets in a different way it could be the index
09:09 mtompset       Anyone care to look at C4::Items GetLostItems and confirm that the SELECT is a horrendous SELECT *?
09:09 dcook          Thanks, kf. I admit that I'm stumped and it's 7pm here, so I should call it a day :p
09:10 mtompset       You should have stopped an hour ago for supper. ;)
09:11 * dcook        nods and looks lookingly out the window towards the shops
09:11 dcook          longingly* OK, it's been a long day. Gotta go. Good luck with GetLostItems, mtompset!
09:32 mtompset       That's a lot of name changing, chris_n. :)
09:33 mtompset       bug 8329
09:33 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8329 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , GetLostItems in C4::Items.pm has a SELECT *
09:55 * gaetan_B     just finished his phone call
09:56 gaetan_B       kf: thanks for the input, i'll keep investigating...
10:36 marcelr        hi #koha
10:37 drojf1         hey marcelr
10:39 kf_lunch       hi marcelr :)
10:39 marcelr        hi drojf1 kf
10:42 slef           hi all
10:42 marcelr        hi slef
10:43 slef           [off] I'm slightly ill. Sorry for my recent absences.
10:43 kf_lunch       [off] oh no! hope you are feeling better.
10:43 slef           is rangi or anyone who can put http://www.kohacon10.org.nz/ back up awake?
10:43 slef           [off] yeah should be better soon, which is why I'm back
10:44 kf_lunch       rangi is travelling - was at the airport yesterday
10:44 eythian        he's off training.
10:45 eythian        also, it's 12:43am there
10:45 eythian        if we host it, I might be able to make it work.
10:47 eythian        ah no, it's a googly thing apparently. I have no idea how that works.
10:48 eythian        10:43am rather
10:48 eythian        so he could be I suppose
10:49 * mtompset     waves bye.
10:49 kf_lunch       I think someone talked about moving it
10:49 kf_lunch       from the server where it used to be - maybe a domain thing?
10:50 eythian        I dunno
10:58 slef           oh well - I was trying to point someone at a talk from kohacon10 - would be nice to have it back some time. Do you think rangi knows about it or should I ask someone else?
11:00 kf_lunch       hm maybe we can find the talk?
11:00 kf_lunch       I think they were not on the same server, the video recordings
11:01 eythian        slef: I dunno. Can't hurt to ask him, he'll at least know who to pass it on to.
11:03 slef           kf_lunch: I think recordings were on blip.tv by anitsirk
11:03 slef           kf_lunch: thanks for the reminder :)
11:04 magnuse        http://blip.tv/the-curious-and-wondering-eye
11:04 slef           @later tell rangi could you put http://www.kohacon10.org.nz/ back or pass me on, please?
11:04 huginn         slef: The operation succeeded.
11:04 slef           eythian: thanks
11:12 jcamins        hdl1: CHI is integrated into 3.10, but not 3.8 yet.
11:13 jcamins        I am not sure if rangi is going to be backporting it.
11:23 jcamins        Probably not.
11:44 jcamins        hdl1: it isn't fully integrated into 3.10 yet. dpavlin is working on a patch.
11:49 mtompset       Hello, #koha
11:49 mtompset       While hunting for my GetLostItems bug, I discovered a problem... the server is continually running out of memory.
11:50 jcamins        mtompset: how much RAM does the server have?
11:50 mtompset       512MB
11:50 jcamins        That would be your problem.
11:50 mtompset       So all our zebra indexing problems might be a memory problem too.
11:51 jcamins        Probably not.
11:51 mtompset       Considering a DB dump is 300MB+
11:51 jcamins        Wait, how many records do you have?
11:51 jcamins        I thought you had a large database.
11:51 mtompset       Large for us.
11:51 mtompset       Probably not for you. :)
11:51 jcamins        I think maybe I got you confused with someone else.
11:51 mtompset       I think there is just over 39K items.
11:52 jcamins        So, pretty small.
11:52 jcamins        512MB won't be enough for production, but that should be fine for testing.
11:52 jcamins        The problem is that Apache uses a lot of RAM.
11:52 mtompset       stopped apache and mysql 468MB free...
11:52 jcamins        The problem's Apache.
11:52 jcamins        Without any doubt.
11:52 mtompset       restarted them 367MB free.
11:53 kf             mtompset: how are you indexing your records?
11:53 jcamins        If MySQL is using too muchof your RAM, it means that you have MySQL configured wrong.
11:53 mtompset       And there seemed to be a bit of a memory leak too.
11:54 jcamins        Right, that memory leak is Apache. ;)
11:55 mtompset       test?
11:55 * wahanui      does a testing dance
11:55 mtompset       :(
11:55 mtompset       I forgot the / issue.
11:55 mtompset       /usr/share/koha/bin/migration_tools/rebuild_zebra.pl -b -a -r
11:57 mtompset       But jcamins, that's like 1MB leak per OPAC query... at least for a few of them.
11:57 jcamins        mtompset: each time Apache is started, it uses ~25MB.
11:57 jcamins        (I think)
11:57 jcamins        One Apache process is started for every single HTTP request.
11:58 jcamins        Eventually they end, and your memory usage goes down, but on a system with 512MB/RAM, they'll deadlock and explode first.
11:59 mtompset       I was going to suggest bumping it up to 1GB... It's a VM, and our host provider might not like going higher.
11:59 jcamins        1GB should work pretty well.
12:01 mtompset       Actually, I was trying to figure the memory use per query... it's somewhere between 40 and 50MB.
12:01 mtompset       Of course, perhaps that is because of our named host setup.
12:01 jcamins        I'd believe it.
12:01 mtompset       both are port 80.
12:01 jcamins        That's how I have mine set up, too.
12:02 jcamins        My 25MB was from memory. I could easily be off by a factor of two.
12:03 jcamins        paul_p: have I convinced you on bug 6557 yet?
12:03 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6557 normal, P3, ---, jcamins, Passed QA , biblioitems.totalissues unused
12:04 marcelr        :-)
12:04 paul_p         jcamins in fact, I'll push the patch, but I consider it's a dirty one. But as there is a lot of dirtyness in this area, it would require too much effort -from far !- to do it another way
12:04 jcamins        paul_p: agreed.
12:04 jcamins        As I said, my ideal would be to only do the update on indexing, but that's not really an option until 3.14
12:05 hdl1           jcamins: ok /me saw that.
12:05 mtompset       What happens on 3.14?
12:05 jcamins        mtompset: we've had DOM long enough that I can start removing features that work around GRS-1's limitations.
12:06 mtompset       So, 3.14 we remove GRS-1 completely?
12:06 jcamins        At least, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)
12:06 jcamins        mtompset: hey, a man can dream. :)
12:07 mtompset       I fear to ask, but curious demands it... What is GRS-1?
12:07 jcamins        The indexing schema that Zebra uses.
12:07 jcamins        Starting with 3.10, DOM will be available.
12:07 jcamins        DOM actually works. :)
12:07 magnuse        mtompset: http://www.indexdata.com/zebra/doc/grs.html
12:08 mtompset       A quick skim brings fear! That was a standard?
12:09 jcamins        Well... I don't know that "standard" is quite the right word.
12:09 mtompset       Okay... the way they did it.
12:09 jcamins        Right. They had the good sense to deprecate it about five years ago.
12:10 mtompset       And we still have it in Koha?!
12:11 mtompset       (well, work arounds for it)
12:11 jcamins        As far as I can tell, it was introduced into Koha after it was deprecated, actually... I'm not sure why.
12:11 jcamins        However, 3.10 is ushering in a glorious new era of DOM and solr.
12:12 mtompset       probably because there was more documentation back then.
12:12 mtompset       it's all about the documentation.
12:12 jcamins        Yes, that would make sense.
12:13 mtompset       a perfect programming language will never be used unless it is documented. :)
12:13 mtompset       What is solr?
12:13 wahanui        i heard solr was fast
12:14 jcamins        It is that, yes.
12:14 jcamins        It's a different indexing engine: http://lucene.apache.org/solr/
12:14 mtompset       wait a second...
12:14 mtompset       you were just harping on Apache for seeming memory leaks.
12:15 mtompset       Is solr an apache innovation?
12:15 jcamins        It's not httpd that's leaking.
12:15 jcamins        It's the Apache processes.
12:16 jcamins        It's not actually leaking, per se.
12:16 jcamins        It's just that it loads a staggering amount into memory every time it receives a query.
12:16 mtompset       It's not getting garbage collected quickly.
12:16 jcamins        Right.
12:16 jcamins        On an infinitely fast system with an infinite amount of RAM, RAM usage would actually stay quite low. :)
12:17 mtompset       Mmm.... reminds me of "the god chip" discussions I had in university.
12:17 mtompset       There are two versions...
12:17 mtompset       One is all-knowing statically.
12:18 mtompset       There other is apparently all-knowing, because it is infinitely fast.
12:19 mtompset       Low Ram usage implies the latter. ;)
12:21 mtompset       So, in terms of solr, does that mean the zebra pieces will disappear?
12:21 jcamins        Possibly eventually.
12:21 jcamins        However, not until the solr implementation is entirely mature.
12:22 jcamins        Also, there needs to be some option for relatively low memory systems.
12:23 mtompset       The only reason I discovered this memory issue while hunting for an inexplicable bug in GetLostItems.
12:23 mtompset       Turns out that C4::Items GetLostItems needs to be patched.
12:23 mtompset       It has a SELECT *
12:23 mtompset       on items, biblio, and biblioitems, and authorised_values.
12:24 mtompset       bug 8329
12:24 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8329 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , GetLostItems in C4::Items.pm has a SELECT *
12:24 kf             mtompset: you can write a patch :)
12:24 mtompset       Can't... don't have a git source.
12:24 mtompset       I made a suggestion.
12:25 alex_a1        bonjour
12:25 wahanui        bonjour, alex_a1
12:25 jcamins_mib    I need to switch servers. This host has been having serious connectivity issues.
12:25 mtompset       I know the bug is still in 3.6.6
12:25 mtompset       even though I'm working with 3.6.3
12:25 jcamins_mib    You should submit a patch for GetLostItems if it hasn't been fixed yet.
12:26 jcamins_mib    Bug 8329
12:26 jcamins_mib    Oh, you reported it.
12:26 jcamins_mib    Excellent.
12:26 mtompset       If I can't patch, I can at least write something.
12:26 jcamins_mib    Now you just need to patch it!
12:26 jcamins_mib    Aw, you can do it!
12:27 mtompset       I've got a bash scripting fest to finish.
12:27 mtompset       I don't like git.
12:27 jcamins_mib    Given how many bugs everyone already has on their lists, it'll probably wait for you. :)
12:27 jcamins_mib    Oh, that's just 'cause you haven't made friends yet.
12:27 jcamins_mib    git?
12:27 wahanui        well, git is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Version_Control_Using_Git
12:28 jcamins_mib    It is about a million times more pleasant to use than CVS.
12:28 mtompset       I fixed it in my system. :P
12:29 jcamins_mib    And when you upgrade (which you are going to want to do), it'll break again.
12:29 jcamins_mib    Ask Waylon about this.
12:29 mtompset       So far, it's been a small number. :)
12:29 jcamins_mib    (he isn't here now)
12:29 schuster       But I am!
12:29 jcamins_mib    schuster! Good morning.
12:31 mtompset       Well, one of my bugs got patched current. :)
12:31 mtompset       Yes, but the patch I'd give wouldn't be perfect... it would be functional.
12:32 jcamins_mib    Hint: functional is better than not.
12:34 mtompset       And if I write bug reports, then I know which one's I have to fix again on an upgrade. ;)
12:35 jcamins_mib    Lots of people have had this thought.
12:35 jcamins_mib    Believe me, they *all* end up on #koha asking for help with their code.
12:36 drojf          i never do
12:36 drojf          :D
12:36 jcamins_mib    drojf: don't you use git?
12:36 drojf          i do
12:37 drojf          i probably dont know what you are actually talking about since i just came in ;)
12:37 jcamins_mib    My point was that people who _don't_ use git need help reconciling their changes.
12:37 mtompset       I don't. :P I'm not the average person. ;)
12:38 mtompset       Of course... we'll see how that holds up on an upgrade. :)
12:38 jcamins_mib    Just so long as you understand that not only is this a case of "I cannot help you," this is a case of "I will not help you."
12:38 mtompset       Oooo... tough love? I feel it. :)
12:39 mtompset       I don't have the disk space on my netbook to set up the git test environment. :(
12:39 drojf          use a real computer? :P
12:40 jcamins_mib    Or a raspberry pi.
12:40 wahanui        well, a raspberry pi is arm-based
12:40 drojf          but seriously, git is great, and i just started using it and probably do not even know the cool stuff
12:40 drojf          lol jcamins
12:40 kf             drojf: you know you can ask :)
12:41 mtompset       As for a real computer... I work on a donation basis.
12:41 kf             well... I probably don't know the cool stuff, but I love git :)
12:41 mtompset       So, if you donate, I'll get a real computer. :)
12:41 schuster       git is still a lot of magic in a box to me but it is cool!!
12:42 drojf          mtompset: i really use a raspberry pi for development. its $35
12:42 * jcamins_mib  is very jealous of drojf's raspberry pi. ;)
12:43 mtompset       But they are back ordered for like month.
12:43 mtompset       months.
12:43 jcamins        That's why I'm jealous.
12:43 drojf          i think they should have reached the end of that soon
12:44 drojf          but i might be wrong
12:45 drojf          mtompset: but you could also just put a 8gb usb flash thingy in the netbook? that should be <$10
12:47 eythian        http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/06/27/154242/fishpi-raspberry-pi-powered-autonomous-boat-to-cross-the-ocean <-- drojf
12:49 drojf          hahaha thats fantastic
12:58 mtompset       Thanks for the reminder, drojf
12:59 mtompset       I'm setting something now.
13:05 mtompset       It's a slow USB thumb drive, but it should suffice for a koha setup.
13:06 mtompset       And a reformat to NTFS from FAT.
13:07 eythian        ext4 perhaps?
13:09 Waylon         hiya all
13:09 Waylon         How is Solr support coming in 3.8? and is it faster than zebrasrv? i find zebrasrv spending time in IO alot.
13:09 mtompset       I'm under Windoze.
13:10 mtompset       I'll be running Koha in a VM.
13:10 mtompset       What is solr
13:10 wahanui        well, solr is fast
13:10 Waylon         yea, I know.. but how fast/
13:10 Waylon         ?
13:11 eythian        Waylon: I don't see zebra spending a lot of time on IO
13:11 Waylon         solr is an alternative index and search engine than zebrasrv
13:11 eythian        I find zebra to be quite fast
13:11 Waylon         hmm...
13:11 drojf          i think solr is expected to be in 3.10
13:11 Waylon         its in master now though?
13:12 drojf          is it pushed?
13:12 magnuse        bug 8233
13:12 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8233 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , New search engine layer - introduce solr without breaking anything else
13:12 eythian        I'm not sure if it's in master yet, I don't think it is quite
13:13 Waylon         and yea, in iotop, ive seen zebrasrv instances hit 99% and stay for a bit.
13:13 Waylon         under 10 concurrent users, 5 second delay between search batches
13:13 magnuse        looks like solr is almost ready to pass qa
13:13 Waylon         and an average of 15 seconds response time.
13:13 Waylon         so.. yeah...
13:14 Waylon         this is koha 3.0.0.094
13:14 kf             15 seconds??
13:14 eythian        that is a bit older than my experience.
13:14 Waylon         15 seconds.
13:14 eythian        But also a lot slower.
13:14 kf             that's a lot
13:14 kf             I haven't expereinced that
13:14 Waylon         max of 25
13:14 Waylon         so yea... not too happy about it.
13:15 kf             but there might be another reason than zebra
13:15 eythian        Running in a vm on a crappy netbook I got faster results than that.
13:15 kf             I think solr is fast, but you have to feed it with hardware
13:15 eythian        yeah
13:15 kf             so probably would still be slow on old hardware
13:15 jcamins        Waylon: hey, we were just talking about you.
13:15 Waylon         this is on a quadcore xeon something.
13:16 Waylon         hi jcamins
13:16 mtompset       oh, that is something to begin the coveting. ;)
13:16 Waylon         Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E31270 @ 3.40GHz
13:17 Waylon         maybe i should throw more memory at it?
13:17 eythian        how much do you have?
13:17 drojf          maybe you should throw a newer version of koha at it
13:17 Waylon         currently giving the vm's 4 gigs.
13:17 eythian        how big is your zebra database?
13:17 eythian        oh, it's in a VM
13:17 eythian        is your VM being an IO bottleneck?
13:17 Waylon         3.5 gigs for the dev/update test servers
13:18 Waylon         possibly.
13:18 Waylon         no idea.
13:18 Waylon         thats the big question.
13:18 eythian        basically, if zebra is slow, I wouldn't expect solr to be better unless it's a configuration issue.
13:18 mtompset       3.5gigs?! Oh my... we have a SMALL database by comparison.
13:18 Waylon         oh, the db? no.. i mean ram for the dev/update test server
13:18 jcamins        Waylon: I would reiterate my earlier statement that optimizing is premature until you've moved to a version of Koha that is at least semi-modern.
13:19 Waylon         what were you saying about me jcamins ?
13:19 Waylon         and yeah.. i do keep reiterating that to my boss.
13:19 drojf          semi-modern *giggles*
13:19 eythian        Waylon: how big is your zebra database?
13:20 eythian        typically they're not too far off being able to hold in RAM
13:20 jcamins        Waylon: that you can confirm for mtompset how painful it is to not keep your code changes in version control.
13:20 * mtompset     laughs, "I know you are right, jcamins."
13:20 Waylon         oh hell yea
13:20 eythian        yeah, don't do that.
13:20 eythian        it's hard enough when your changes are in version control
13:20 eythian        without making things worse
13:21 Waylon         mtompset, if your finger waggled even a little bit, log it.
13:21 mtompset       Okay, simple question... how do I export data from Koha?
13:21 eythian        that's not a simple question :)
13:21 jcamins        mtompset: what data?
13:21 wahanui        somebody said data was here.
13:21 eythian        what do you want to export?
13:22 Waylon         entire zebradb lib directory, is 5.1 gig.
13:22 * Oak          waves
13:22 eythian        no wahanui, data is the plural of datum, not anecdote.
13:22 mtompset       not the setting, but all the data (items?)
13:22 wahanui        okay, eythian.
13:22 Oak            magnuse
13:22 Waylon         5.2.
13:22 eythian        Waylon: you might benefit from giving it 8GB then, assuming you're on 64-bit.
13:23 mtompset       There's a nice batchimport of MARC records.
13:23 eythian        mtompset: in what way? marc or SQL dump?
13:23 jcamins        mtompset: you can export the MARC records, or you could do a partial SQL dump. It depends what you want.
13:23 mtompset       I'd like to go MARC, so I can transplant to a different version of Koha without worries of architecture.
13:23 Waylon         hmm... the servers only have 8 gig a piece.. should i just ditch the vm's, go bare metal, and get a third machine for dev/upgrade test stuff?
13:23 Oak            eythian: i was wondering, is using koha on a 64 bit deiban stable (just like on a 32bit system) or are there issues?
13:23 eythian        mtompset: that doesn't sound like a reasonable reason :)
13:24 * Waylon       is running koha 3.0.0pre2 on lenny 64bit
13:24 eythian        Waylon: that might be not a bad idea
13:24 Waylon         runs fine.
13:24 eythian        Oak: there's no reason for 64 bit to have issues
13:24 mtompset       hey... code differences I can tweak... DB differences are ever more hellish.
13:24 Oak            okay got it
13:24 * mtompset     laughs.
13:24 eythian        it's the standard architecture these days :)
13:24 Oak            :) okay cool
13:25 eythian        mtompset: well, mysql dumps shouldn't be too different between mysql version, and koha handles upgrading koha versions.
13:25 jcamins        Waylon: I guess it's possible that part of the problem is that 3.0.0-beta2  did weird things with Zebra, but I wouldn't count on it.
13:25 magnuse        Oak
13:25 jcamins        Oak: I only use Debian Squeeze 64-bit .
13:25 Oak            jcamins!
13:25 wahanui        jcamins is A-Grade developper on Koha willing to rewrite it from top to bottom. Good Luck jcamins
13:25 Oak            thankyou
13:26 jcamins        Oak!
13:26 mtompset       I see where you are going eythian, but let's say MARC... I'd like to get my 3.6.3 data into a 3.8.2 system. :)
13:26 Waylon         hmm.. though, disavantage with going bare metal, is its much harder to recover from. with VM's, its an easy DD onto the lvm partition, and then start up the vm.
13:26 Oak            okay then, I'll start downloading 64 bit debian now
13:26 jcamins        mtompset: the upgrade works pretty much prefectly.
13:26 Waylon         backing up is again, piece of cake. lvm snapshot.
13:26 jcamins        Waylon: see above about premature optimization.
13:26 eythian        Waylon: well then give your VM 7GB :)
13:26 eythian        but, upgrade first
13:26 eythian        it'll be worth it anyhow
13:27 jcamins        Not just worth it.
13:27 jcamins        It is necessary.
13:27 eythian        mtompset: I think the export tool can do that.
13:27 mtompset       So, I could mysqldump... create the DB's, and then do an upgrade install?
13:27 jcamins        mtompset: right.
13:27 eythian        in tools->export bibliographic...
13:27 eythian        that's what I would do
13:27 eythian        in fact, it's what I do do.
13:27 jcamins        eythian is giving you the instructions for exporting MARC, but I'm lazy, and just dump the entire DB.
13:27 eythian        yeah, I meant above that DB dumps is what I do do.
13:28 Waylon         Waylon!
13:28 jcamins        Waylon: tell your bosses that the performance issue is because of the version, and there's no way to improve it unless they shell out to get the local modifications integrated.
13:28 Waylon         hahaha!
13:28 jcamins        No, seriously.
13:28 jcamins        You will not be wrong.
13:28 Waylon         oh.. i thought that was the bot.
13:28 eythian        hehe
13:28 jcamins        lol
13:29 jcamins        That would've been even cooler.
13:29 jcamins        wahanui: Waylon is <reply>Waylon: tell your bosses that the performance issue is because of the version, and there's no way to improve it unless they shell out to get the local modifications integrated.5D
13:29 wahanui        ...but waylon is the 33rd contributor to Koha. Currently works for Mandumah.com....
13:29 schuster       I'm working on putting together a "FRESH" debian 3.8 install for development and when I get to the memcached server question do I still want to say no?  I have not played with that yet.
13:29 jcamins        wahanui: no, Waylon is <reply>Waylon: tell your bosses that the performance issue is because of the version, and there's no way to improve it unless they shell out to get the local modifications integrated.
13:29 wahanui        ...but waylon is the 33rd contributor to Koha. Currently works for Mandumah.com....
13:29 jcamins        forget waylon
13:29 wahanui        jcamins: I forgot waylon
13:29 jcamins        wahanui: Waylon is <reply>Waylon: tell your bosses that the performance issue is because of the version, and there's no way to improve it unless they shell out to get the local modifications integrated.
13:29 wahanui        OK, jcamins.
13:30 jcamins        waylon
13:30 jcamins        waylon!
13:30 jcamins        Waylon
13:30 jcamins        Waylon?
13:30 wahanui        Waylon: tell wahanui's bosses that the performance issue is because of the version, and there's no way to improve it unless they shell out to get the local modifications integrated.
13:30 jcamins        Oh well.
13:30 jcamins        It's not perfect.
13:30 Waylon         33rd developer and im stranded in old code.
13:30 schuster       you go jcamins!
13:30 * Waylon       hasn't even looked at the new koha code.
13:30 mtompset       What version are you running?
13:31 schuster       Waylon - there are sooo many new features and functionality in Koha have you done a comparison of features to determine what you would have to "rebuild" vs what has already been integrated?
13:31 jcamins        schuster: I use memcached in production, and have it configured on my development server, but manually shut it down when testing things.
13:31 Waylon         koha 3.0.0.094 with patches imported from later versions, without git updating.
13:31 jcamins        (depending on what I'm testing)
13:31 schuster       jcamins - is it hard to setup?  from what you just said I would probably not run it then in dev mode thanks.
13:31 Waylon         so its a mess.
13:31 jcamins        schuster: super easy.
13:31 mtompset       OH MY! !#!@$ That's horrid.
13:31 drojf          Waylon: what local changes do you have that koha does not have now in some form that you rely on?
13:32 eythian        Yeah, when I do a 3.4/3.6->3.8 upgrade, I usually cut the custom patches from 30 down to about 5.
13:33 eythian        and those 5 are usually deal with client-specific CSS etc.
13:33 schuster       Waylon - There are demos that you can look at on the koha community site for comparison without installing etc...  You know we all here are more than happy to respond as well to questions of current functionality.
13:33 jcamins        Wait a minute! I've heard of mandumah.
13:34 jcamins        :)
13:34 eythian        jcamins: the wahanui update format is "no wahanui, something is something else"
13:35 jcamins        Waylon: the following pages on the wiki are relevant to performance tuning, but not for 3.0: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Tuning_Guide, http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Tuning, http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Plack
13:35 mtompset       might lose connectivity...
13:35 jcamins        Also, http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Performance
13:35 Waylon         okay.. lemme see... access restrictions based on ip range, referer, download urls that go to a opac-download page, count the number of downloads against the borrower (in our version of koha, a borrower represents all of a university), counts the number of logins that borrower does, ip range access blacklisting, hmm... abuse of the branch table to create seperate libraries, one can search all at once or just one of them, borrowers can be rest
13:35 Waylon         ricted to certain branches...
13:35 kf             @wunder Konstanz
13:35 huginn         kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 27.8°C (3:30 PM CEST on June 28, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 54%. Dew Point: 18.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady).
13:35 Waylon         I think theres some arabic mods also.
13:36 jcamins        Waylon: so you need to add some analytics features to current Koha.
13:36 Waylon         hmm?
13:36 Oak            hello kf :)
13:36 jcamins        What you described is done by Koha, other than the analytics.
13:36 schuster       Waylon  - there has been a ton of development for right to left and Unicode that you could probably take advantage of now that were not in 3.0 and with PLACK and TT performance issues would dry up and you would be current on code.
13:36 Waylon         our db is in utf8
13:36 mtompset       abuse of the branch table?
13:37 jcamins        I don't think *anything* in those four pages I sent you would be suitable for 3.0.
13:37 mtompset       That sounds like what someone was talking about in the koha-developer list recently.
13:37 Waylon         yeah. items belong to branches, or libraries.
13:37 jcamins        mtompset: apparently back pre-3.0 it didn't work the way it does now?
13:37 * jcamins      shrugs.
13:37 Waylon         and zebra searches for stuff + limit by branch
13:37 mtompset       If the current system isn't a VM, VM it.
13:38 jcamins        So, basically you have hacked together a lot of Koha's current features.
13:38 mtompset       Set up a newer system.
13:38 mtompset       And then switch VM's once everyone is happy.
13:38 jcamins        mtompset++ # this is the way to do it.
13:38 jcamins        Waylon: all Koha DBs should be in utf-8. Koha does not like DBs in any character set other than utf-8.
13:39 schuster       hmmm I'm trying to setup this dev system and it keeps failing at "Tried to use 'Koha::Cache::Memcached'  "Tests were run but no plan was declared and done_testing() was not seen.  FAILED and stops.
13:39 schuster       Suggestions?
13:39 wahanui        Suggestions are broken at the moment - I can't accept those for German :(
13:39 Waylon         the current system, vm'ed and load balanced, is responding only 94% of the time.
13:39 * mtompset     nods.
13:40 Waylon         thats not even including when we do the daily zebrasrv rebuild.
13:40 jcamins        schuster: ./koha_perl_deps.pl -m
13:40 jcamins        Or whatever it is.
13:40 jcamins        You do a daily rebuild?
13:40 schuster       comes up clear
13:40 jcamins        Your system is broken.
13:40 eythian        why do you do a daily rebuild?
13:40 jcamins        Give up on this.
13:40 Waylon         yeah. found that without it, zebra would break for some reason.
13:40 schuster       jcamins - who are you talking to?  schuster or Waylon?
13:41 mtompset       if you are using ubuntu, then you dselect the packages from the ubuntu list.
13:41 kf             jcamins: I had the same problem with running the tests yesterday
13:41 jcamins        I am not joking. There is no hope that you are going to be able to resolve this without upgrading to a version of Koha from within the last year.
13:41 kf             jcamins: also lots of complaints about cachng when running make test
13:41 jcamins        schuster: Waylon. I'm trying your problem.
13:41 jcamins        schuster: I see no reason for hopelessness wrt the cache.
13:42 Waylon         admittedly, it was some time ago that I found this out, maybe it was a problem with koha 3.0.0.094 that i never fixed?
13:42 jcamins        Quite possibly, but you are trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
13:42 mtompset       to put it nicely.
13:42 jcamins        *After* the sow's ear has already decomposed.
13:43 Waylon         i think its going to take ages to get to modern koha... and boss is looking into OpenJournal or something.
13:44 Waylon         PHP brainrot.
13:44 mtompset       Why look into something else, when a newer FREE version of the existing software exists?
13:46 jcamins        Waylon: to be honest, I think you'd be better off going to OpenJournal than insisting on using the mess you have now. :(
13:46 kf             mtompset: as I see it from the feature list Waylon is using koha not as an ILS
13:47 Waylon         honestly, no, its more a digital library archive.
13:47 kf             at least it looks like it :)
13:47 Waylon         Of course, if they go to OJS, ill be out of a job.
13:48 schuster       kf did you get your test to complete?
13:48 Waylon         Meh.. prehaps too difficult a task, being stuck in this mess.
13:48 kf             schuster: no, I just continued without completing it - but it's my test installation, so I can mess that up as much as I want :)
13:48 drojf          Waylon: where do you work?
13:49 Waylon         online part-time contracting, for Mandumah.com
13:49 mtompset       why would you be out of a job?
13:49 mtompset       oh
13:49 Waylon         well OJS is PHP.
13:49 schuster       kf - so you just did the make install and went on and things mostly work?
13:49 Waylon         and my god.... its a whole different philosophy
13:49 mtompset       You aren't a salaried employee which could be expected to grow professionally and just do it.
13:50 drojf          heh that site is a bit too much arabic for me to understand. but it's a university?
13:50 Waylon         google translate does okay on it.
13:50 * eythian      is not convinced moving to PHP is "growing"
13:50 Waylon         no, its a digital services vendor.
13:50 drojf          ok
13:50 Waylon         flagship project is the digital library archive of thousands of arabic journals.
13:51 Waylon         pdf format.
13:51 Waylon         very nicely marc'ed up
13:51 drojf          aaah you are the guy that wanted to encrypt the biblio ids or something a short time ago?
13:51 Waylon         yea.
13:52 kf             schuster: yes
13:52 Waylon         or at least make them so someone can't just wget and increment biblio numbers to download the entire library.
13:52 kf             schuster: I did not activate caching tho
13:52 kf             but I did activate dom indexing and icu - looking forward to test it out :)
13:53 eythian        Waylon: hash 'em with a secret
13:53 Waylon         kf: caching? zebrasrv does caching?
13:53 eythian        Waylon: memcache does caching
13:53 eythian        though not in 3.0 :)
13:53 Waylon         ahh yea
13:54 Waylon         so yea, i see zebrasrv spending alot of time... perl spending alot of time, and by the time it gets back to the return, its sometimes too late.
13:55 eythian        does iotop tell you anything useful>
13:55 eythian        ?
13:55 Waylon         zebrasrv spending alot of io time.
13:55 eythian        it really shouldn't.
13:55 eythian        How many records do you have?
13:55 Waylon         register directory is 5.1 gigabytes
13:56 eythian        yeah, but how many records do you have?
13:56 Waylon         hmm.. no idea.
13:56 eythian        is it proportional to the 5.1GB?
13:57 eythian        I should expect ~250,000 records for that zebra size.
13:57 Waylon         162071 biblios
13:57 eythian        OK, not too far off
13:57 Waylon         each biblio has a biblioitems and at least one item.
13:58 Waylon         and a very fleshed out marcxml
13:58 eythian        yeah, I think the records I was comparing to are a bit smaller
13:59 Waylon         I could adjust the vm's, give 6 gig each to koha vm, and only 1.5 gig each to the dev vms.
13:59 Waylon         2 gig make a big difference?
13:59 eythian        Impossible to say
14:02 jcamins        Waylon: not as big a difference as using a version of the system that we could help you with.
14:04 schuster       kf thanks for the advice - I'm always hesitant to move forward even on my test system with "testing" doesn't complete.
14:04 kf             schuster: no guarantees - I didn't figure out why it failed and it's only a dev system for me
14:04 kf             schuster: so doesn't matter if I break it
14:05 jcamins        I'll track down the problem when I can.
14:05 jcamins        The problem is I can't seem to duplicate it.
14:05 jcamins        Not even with pbuilder.
14:05 kf             jcamins: perhaps because you have all modules installed?
14:05 kf             I suspect I am missing a dependency
14:05 kf             I didn't cpan the chi modules
14:06 * slef         forms a dependency on kf... send me money :)
14:06 * mtompset     smirks.
14:06 kf             hey!
14:11 * mtompset     has a musical flashback: http://youtu.be/9k5ooaufrLM
14:12 mtompset       (The Beatles - Money)
14:14 mtompset       Out of curiousity, if I submit patches to the bug reports that I made, will that speed them up in terms of getting processed through?
14:15 eythian        very much so
14:16 jcamins        yes.
14:16 kf             yes
14:16 eythian        otherwise you're waiting for someone to care enough to write a patch for you
14:16 jcamins        If you don't submit patches, chances are the bugs won't go anywhere.
14:16 Waylon         ^^
14:16 kf             mtompset: most koha developers work for a koha support provider, so they spent time on things they get paid for first
14:16 * Waylon       nods.
14:16 Waylon         Sadly, im getting paid to work on an antique
14:17 jcamins        I have 15 bugs assigned to me that don't have patches yet.
14:17 kf             and he is writing patches like crazy :)
14:17 jcamins        There are numerous others that I would like to work on.
14:17 * kf           got a long list for testing!
14:17 kf             yeah, it's also a big time problem
14:17 mtompset       So, if I provide a patch, it is quite likely to speed up the process?
14:17 kf             not that people don't want to fix bugs
14:17 kf             mtompset: yes
14:18 kf             mtompset: the next step is somone else testing your patch, than it moves on to qa if it's good and after that it pushed into Koha
14:18 jcamins        If you provide a patch for a bug like this, there's a very good chance somewhere will test and sign off on it in the next two months.
14:18 jcamins        The trick to encouraging that to happen is lots of cheerful reminders to people who care about related functionality.
14:18 * slef         smiles at Waylon
14:18 * slef         should be paid to replace some antiques next month
14:18 eythian        jcamins: only 15? luxury!
14:19 jcamins        eythian: I only assign bugs that I am *definitely* patching to myself.
14:19 eythian        ah right :) I got lots by default
14:19 Waylon         hmm? mandumah is not the only one to use old code, slef ?
14:20 magnuse        paul_p recently did an upgrade from 2.2.x :-)
14:20 Waylon         wow.
14:20 eythian        I did one of those a year or two ago
14:20 * magnuse      too
14:20 slef           Waylon: indeed. Lots of places install koha and don't take out a support contract or allocate any of their own IT workers to do upgrades. If it works for them, that's fine. If it doesn't, it rather limits their support options.
14:21 Waylon         okay.. data wise, whats the upgrade path from 3.0 to 3.8 like?
14:21 magnuse        even hlt, the original koha library, was left behind for a looong time - it worked for them so why upgrade? :-)
14:22 magnuse        hiya tcohen
14:22 tcohen         hi magnuse
14:22 jcamins        Waylon: very easy. Install new Koha version on different server. Load uold data.
14:22 jcamins        Run upgrade scripts.
14:22 kf             not to speak about libraries still installing 2.2 because it works on widows :(
14:22 * jcamins      shudders.
14:22 jcamins        kf: let's not speak about that, please. ;)
14:22 * magnuse      shudders too
14:22 Waylon         yes, i started with koha on windows.
14:22 Waylon         it worked.
14:22 * wizzyrea     giggles about working on widows.
14:22 magnuse        hehe
14:23 * tcohen       is setting a fat 12.04 VPS for upgrading our production kohas to 3.8.2
14:24 jcamins        tcohen: remember that Ubuntu 12.04 has anonymous MySQL logins by default.
14:24 Waylon         can one do the acquisitions using koha 3, and the opac servers etc using 3.8.2?
14:24 mtompset       You mean 2.9 :P
14:24 tcohen         jcamins, thanks for the advise
14:24 eythian        packages apparentl have issues with Ubuntu 12.04. It's on my list to check.
14:24 tcohen         we have a separate MySQL server
14:24 Waylon         or would i have to get the production server updated too?
14:24 tcohen         and a DBA that has tuned everything for safety
14:25 kf             Waylon:  you are not doing acq on your prodcution server?
14:25 jcamins        Waylon: well, yeah, you'd want to upgrade your production server. I meant, test it on another server first.
14:25 eythian        Waylon: that sounds like a terrible idea, fyi.
14:25 eythian        there's so much that could go wrong.
14:25 jcamins        Wait, what?
14:25 wahanui        well, Wait, is it only in items?
14:25 jcamins        You want to do acquisitions on one version and OPAC with another?
14:25 jcamins        That's the second-worst idea I've heard recently, sorry.
14:26 Waylon         nope. biblio entries are being done on an office server, so called production server. so biblios, biblioitems, items, everything biblio related is being replicated over to the internet facing server.
14:26 eythian        tcohen: well, the package issues apply to the database, so you're probably OK then
14:26 mtompset       Oh, thanks for the reminder... I'll update the Koha on Ubuntu wiki with the DELETE FROM mysql.users where mysql.users='';
14:26 mtompset       or whatever the appropriate SQL is.
14:26 Waylon         oh, this is actually working well, jcamins
14:26 Waylon         with koha 3.
14:26 eythian        Waylon: yeah, but if you have different versions things will go badly I expect.
14:26 Waylon         right.
14:27 eythian        doing that on one version is ok
14:27 tcohen         i'm really excited to go live with 3.8.2
14:27 Waylon         suddenly, a bit bigger of a task.
14:27 tcohen         our librarians are really happy after testing it
14:27 jcamins        Waylon: having the same version on two servers is fine. Having different versions on two servers is not.
14:27 jcamins        tcohen: you either don't charge fines, or are prepared to work around the fine bugs?
14:27 Waylon         cause i have no idea how the marc and new biblio tables are different to the original 3.0
14:28 jcamins        Different.
14:28 Waylon         err.. that is new biblio entry <tables>
14:28 tcohen         jcamins: we use suspension in days
14:28 tcohen         and i'm prepared to tackle those bugs
14:28 jcamins        tcohen: I think that's still working on 3.8, so you should be fine. :)
14:28 tcohen         i even worked on the patches for those (signing, writing)
14:29 Waylon         is there any chance you could write me an email i could forward to my boss, jcamins ?
14:29 eythian        then you'll know the exact scope of the issue :)
14:30 eythian        we are bringing some libraries up to 3.8.2, but those that don't do fines.
14:31 jcamins        Waylon: I can summarize it very quickly: "There is no way you are going to be able to solve any of the problems you have run into while running a hacked version of a Koha version that is many years old and no one else remembers how to use. Koha has continued to improve over the last five years, but what you have has not."
14:33 tcohen         8GB RAM? 5 cores?
14:34 mtompset       I just want a Asus Sabertooth Z77 with an i5-3550 and at least 4GB of Ram. :)
14:34 jcamins        tcohen: they already have 4GB RAM and 4 cores.
14:35 jcamins        mtompset: RAM is a way bigger issue than processor for Koha.
14:35 eythian        mtompset: aiming low, my laptop is an i7 :)
14:36 tcohen         we already have 32 koha's on a server using 8GB of RAM
14:36 tcohen         the flow smoothly
14:36 tcohen         (db on a separate server)
14:37 jcamins        tcohen: that's why I think that there's nothing that Waylon can do other than upgrade.
14:39 drojf          Waylon: maybe send your boss in here for half an hour ;)
14:40 drojf          we could sing, all together. the "upgrade to latest koha" song
14:41 Waylon         current baremetal server is a 4 core 3.5 gb (32 bit kernel i think) machine.
14:41 Waylon         hasn't skipped a beat.
14:41 Waylon         of course, its never been siege tested.
14:41 Waylon         is 10 users, 5 sec delay even a reasonable siege
14:41 Waylon         ?
14:42 jcamins        Waylon: you're using a prerelease of 3.0.0. We have absolutely no idea.
14:43 eythian        Waylon: you are older than liblime koha
14:43 jcamins        eythian: oooh. Good way of putting it.
14:43 Waylon         man, thats saying something.
14:43 Waylon         liblime--
14:54 Waylon         okay, sent, with the suggestion that we baremetal one server, put our current koha on it, and dev on the other server, to bring us to koha 3.8, and then VM things.
14:55 Waylon         going to regret baremetaling though.. managing a bare metal server via IMPI is time consuming.
14:56 mtompset       IMPI?
14:57 Waylon         INPI?
14:57 mtompset       I don't what acronym you were aiming for, or the meaning of it. :)
14:58 Waylon         the data center protocol/card that is a KVM
14:58 Waylon         basically, an esoteric concept of VNC, at a hardware level.
14:59 mtompset       Ah.
14:59 * mtompset     cracks open the Mountain Dew.
14:59 mtompset       Tonight... I tango with git.
15:00 magnuse        yay, that sounds like a quote
15:01 mtompset       Yes, but you missed the carbonation escaping the bottle as I opened it.
15:01 mtompset       It had a bit of a zorro kind of voice.
15:02 jcamins        @quote add "<mtompset> Tonight... I tango with git."
15:02 huginn         jcamins: The operation succeeded.  Quote #208 added.
15:06 magnuse        thanks jcamins
15:06 * magnuse      never figured out how to register with huginn...
15:06 Waylon         so yea, if ssh fails, if the bare metal koha refuses to boot, IMPI is the only way to gain access to the machine.
15:06 Waylon         and yea.. SLOOOWWWWW
15:07 slef           yeah we've at least one IMPI-using server... think I've used it once
15:07 mtompset       Now I'm part of the Koha mythos. ;)
15:08 slef           you don't want to do that if you can avoid it
15:08 eythian        we prefer "truthos"
15:08 slef           An Impi is an isiZulu word for any armed body of men. However, in English it is often used to refer to a Zulu regiment, which is called an ibutho in Zulu. The first impis were formed by Zulu king Shaka, who was then only the exiled illegitimate son of king Senzangakona, but already showing much prowess as a general in the army of Mthethwa king Dingiswayo in the Mthethwa... http://a.vu/w:Impi
15:08 slef           errr, not what I meant :)
15:08 slef           Intelligent Platform Management Interface (IPMI)
15:09 mtompset       at least you didn't rm -rf your home directory over the weekend. :)
15:09 slef           mtompset: backups++
15:09 mtompset       That's what I was in the middle of scripting.
15:10 mtompset       I forever will put -i on my rm's!
15:10 slef           no you won't
15:10 slef           you'll get annoyed soon
15:10 slef           like everyone else who's said that
15:10 mtompset       Yes, but for now... -i is my friend.
15:11 mtompset       And I added "Are you sure you want to delete that? (y/n) " prompts to my scripts too.
15:11 mtompset       No more accidental deletions. :)
15:12 Waylon         yeah. IPMI is a horror.
15:12 mtompset       I just had another musical flash, slef.
15:13 Waylon         slow, ugly, and you most likely need to use a complete ssh route proxy if you don't already have a ssh server on the same intranet.
15:13 mtompset       http://youtu.be/tOifaUXPk4g
15:14 Waylon         mtompset?
15:14 wahanui        i guess mtompset is not.
15:14 mtompset       (To All The Girls I've Loved Before) --- because you said "like everyone else who's said that"
15:14 Waylon         mtompset, who are you?
15:14 mtompset       A human being. :)
15:14 Waylon         wahanui, mtompset is a human being
15:14 wahanui        ...but mtompset is not....
15:14 mtompset       I'm currently located in the Philippines.
15:15 mtompset       forget mtompset
15:15 wahanui        mtompset: I forgot mtompset
15:15 mtompset       mtompset is having musical flashbacks.
15:15 Waylon         mtompset is a human being in the Philippines, and is having musical flashbacks.
15:15 Waylon         wahanui, mtompset is a human being in the Philippines, and is having musical flashbacks.
15:15 wahanui        ...but mtompset is having musical flashbacks....
15:16 Waylon         forget mtompset
15:16 wahanui        Waylon: I forgot mtompset
15:16 Waylon         wahanui, mtompset is a human being in the Philippines, and is having musical flashbacks.
15:16 wahanui        OK, Waylon.
15:16 * mtompset     laughs.
15:16 Waylon         mtompset?
15:16 wahanui        it has been said that mtompset is a human being in the Philippines, and is having musical flashbacks.
15:16 Waylon         now your part of the koha community
15:16 mtompset       Except that I don't get paid.
15:16 mtompset       :)
15:17 mtompset       @wunder MNL
15:17 huginn         mtompset: The current temperature in Manila, Philippines is 26.0°C (11:00 PM PHT on June 28, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 25.0°C. Pressure: 29.71 in 1006 hPa (Steady).
15:17 kf             mtompset: for which library are you working?
15:17 mtompset       Looks like rain shortly.
15:18 kf             mtompset: sorry, only curious :)
15:18 mtompset       I don't work for a library, but rather an organization that does language development activities worldwide.
15:19 kf             ah :)
15:19 mtompset       We happen to have many libraries of materials, and Koha was chosen to be used.
15:19 kf             cool :)
15:19 Waylon         awesome
15:19 mtompset       http://www.sil.org/
15:19 Waylon         would be cool if you were part of the google language preservation project...
15:20 mtompset       Google is following in OUR footsteps. :P
15:20 Waylon         hot damn, i was on the right track.
15:20 jcamins        mtompset: oh, you work for SIL?
15:20 jcamins        Awesome!
15:20 Waylon         in fact, ive been to this website before.
15:20 * slef         froths at the mention of the Google-opoly
15:20 mtompset       Yes.
15:21 mtompset       Is that anything like Monopoly? ;)
15:21 Waylon         i was doing aspergers driven research on the Ainu language.
15:21 Waylon         i think sil came up on wiki as a citation prehaps.
15:22 mtompset       quiet likely. SIL is involved in many language projects.
15:22 mtompset       They also partner with other organizations as well.
15:23 Waylon         okay.
15:23 Waylon         time for me to pack myself into bed i think.
15:23 mtompset       Bed?! That's what the Mountain Dew is for... No rest for the wicked. ;)
15:23 mtompset       I suspect 2L will be gone shortly. :)
15:24 Waylon         yeah.. been up since 7am, to do a DJ set.
15:24 Waylon         its now 3:23am
15:24 mtompset       I want to get all the pre-installation steps done for Koha before I even think of sleep.
15:25 Waylon         you should be using 'screen' mtompset
15:25 Waylon         then you could detach, shutdown your personal computer, sleep.. wake up, and resume.
15:26 mtompset       I'm doing this on a VM on my personal computer.
15:26 mtompset       I wish I was doing it in screen.
15:26 Waylon         ah.
15:26 Waylon         VM save state/
15:26 Waylon         ?
15:26 mtompset       Yes but then it doesn't complete to the perl Makefile.PL stage.
15:27 Waylon         right
15:27 Waylon         okay, sleep.
15:27 mtompset       Have a good night, Waylon.
15:27 mtompset       Nice meeting you.
15:28 slef           oh fun question... if someone has installed koha with a mysql database with latin1 tables, is there a nice way to convert it to utf8 or do we have to convert column-by-column?
15:28 Waylon         yup. you too
15:28 kf             slef: sounds eew. how did that happen?
15:29 slef           kf: "IT Services" installed the server with the koha packages before we were called in :-(
15:29 eythian        > Can't locate HTML/Template/Pro.pm in @INC
15:29 slef           actually I'm surprised the packages do that... eythian is usually smarter than that
15:29 eythian        that takes me back...
15:29 Waylon         yeah.. how many records entered into it alrady, slef?
15:29 jcamins        slef: step 1) dope slap individual who did that. Step 2) use ALTER table.
15:29 eythian        slef: what do they do?
15:29 jcamins        eythian: why are you looking at HTP?
15:29 slef           eythian: do the packages create the database as utf8?
15:29 jcamins        The packages don't use Latin-1.
15:30 eythian        jcamins: working with an old version, prepping for an upgrade
15:30 jcamins        Yes they do.
15:30 slef           oh my
15:30 jcamins        Someone had to *try* to get Latin-1.
15:30 eythian        slef: I should think so.
15:30 slef           then I wonder how they managed that
15:30 mtompset       latin-1 is default mysql.
15:30 kf             yeah, I was wondering too :)
15:30 jcamins        And when I say "try," I mean they must've really worked at it.
15:30 slef           any road up, yes, they're data in it
15:30 Waylon         anyway, gotta go.
15:30 kf             because I normally end up doing things wrong first, and never managed that :)
15:30 mtompset       They didn't edit the my.cnf
15:30 Waylon         much as this is rather entertaining.
15:30 slef           not sure how many records, but it'll be painful to recover
15:30 jcamins        mtompset: yeah, but every single table specifies its character set as utf-8.
15:30 jcamins        slef: ALTER TABLE can adjust the character set.
15:31 jcamins        Oh, here's something to check.
15:31 jcamins        What database engine is it using?
15:31 slef           jcamins: I hear we need to be careful with that.
15:31 * Waylon       loves on InnoDB
15:31 eythian        yeah, looking at this old DB dump, it's utf-8.
15:31 mtompset       yes, but that's why I purposefully did that ignore the client handshake mess in my configuration.
15:31 slef           jcamins: oh do I really want to look at this?
15:31 mtompset       I wanted to be sure it was UTF8 period.
15:32 eythian        MyISAM for some bizzaro reason though.
15:32 slef           excuse me for a mo while I dance into the server (you wouldn't believe the process...)
15:32 wahanui        slef: The data on your hard drive is out of balance.
15:32 eythian        where is this MyISAM stuff coming from.
15:32 slef           wahanui: I know that!
15:32 wahanui        slef: huh?
15:32 mtompset       Isn't MyISAM the default for mySQL as well?
15:32 eythian        It is
15:32 eythian        koha is supposed to override that though
15:33 jcamins        eythian: another?!?
15:33 wahanui        another is probably http://macromedia.bsz-bw.de
15:33 eythian        but anything I look at that's oldish, it's MyISAM
15:33 eythian        this one is a plain default install too, nothing fancy
15:33 eythian        from around the 3.2 days
15:33 tcohen         the CREATE TABLE sentences include the ENGINE='InnoDB' param
15:33 mtompset       How do you change the default? Is there an easy way?
15:33 mtompset       Ah.
15:33 eythian        I wondering if it's changed more recently than I suspected.
15:34 jcamins        eythian: I think it's been InnoDB since 3.0.
15:34 eythian        oh
15:34 jcamins        Aw. We should've asked Waylon.
15:34 eythian        this was originally an upgrade from 2.2
15:34 eythian        that'll be why
15:34 eythian        heh
15:35 eythian        ok, that's explainable then.
15:35 jcamins        Wasn't 2.2 Postgres-based?
15:35 eythian        no
15:35 jcamins        Oh.
15:35 kf             jcamins: any chance you get funding to make koha sort right?
15:35 jcamins        That was 1.0?
15:35 eythian        I guess so.
15:35 jcamins        kf: which sorting?
15:35 kf             jcamins: the, an, der, die, das etc. being ignored
15:35 kf             nonfiling...?
15:35 eythian        perl -p -i -e 's/MyISAM/InnoDB/g' library-2012-06-28.sql
15:35 eythian        that fixes it :)
15:35 jcamins        kf: oh, that'.
15:36 jcamins        eythian: but you'll still be missing foreign keys.
15:36 eythian        jcamins: yes
15:36 jcamins        kf: short answer: maybe. Long answer: maybe.
15:36 jcamins        :P
15:36 eythian        I'm going to do some experimenting with fixing that too
15:36 kf             jcamins: I didn't expect an easy answer...
15:36 kf             hehe
15:37 kf             :)
15:39 slef           jcamins: phew. pending_offline_operations and a couple of others are MyISAM but most seem to be InnoDB.
15:39 gaetan_B       bye !
15:39 slef           jcamins: don't scare me like that! :)
15:42 jcamins        slef: better to check now than find a problem later. :)
15:43 mtompset       Some problems left unchecked become incurable. ;)
15:44 * eythian      should have remained with myisam, it is a _lot_ faster...
15:44 eythian        on the other hand, it causes upgrade issues.
15:44 jcamins        lol
15:45 jcamins        eythian: and data consistency issues.
15:45 eythian        pssht "data"
15:45 mtompset       That's what backups are for. ;)
15:45 eythian        zactly!
15:51 slef           jcamins: true, true.
15:52 mtompset       Seriously?! I was just looking at the Budweiser commercial a couple days ago, slef.
15:54 mtompset       How big is the git repository?
15:55 mtompset       Good... 15 minutes or so, I'll have a freshly installed OS.
15:56 eythian        1.1GB fully checked out
15:56 eythian        however, it'll transfer less
15:56 mtompset       1.1GB fully checked out?!
15:56 eythian        oh wait
15:56 eythian        I have data sitting in there
15:56 eythian        that'll make it somewhat larger than it needs to be
15:56 mtompset       I guess that sounds about right... the xvf'd tar gz was about that big.
15:57 eythian        612MB I think
15:57 eythian        well, git includes the history, and this isn't compressed because it's a working copy
15:57 slef           git gc --aggressive
15:57 mtompset       The full packages compressed are around 44-45.
15:58 mtompset       What is gc?
15:58 slef           garbage collection
15:59 slef           koha master is about 320M, not checked out
15:59 slef           hmmm, that's master and 3.8.x
15:59 slef           and various bug branches
16:00 slef           hmm, and stuff I thought I'd deleted :)
16:00 slef           there was a discussion about this on koha-devel a month or two ago
16:00 eythian        this data is still importing. I hate you, InnoDB
16:01 slef           http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/git-repo-size-restarting-a-discussion-td5612294.html#a5619904
16:01 slef           git gc --aggressive --prune=now, apparently
16:01 magnuse        eythian: bug 8289 has stuff about 2.2 and MyISAM and InnoDB
16:01 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8289 critical, P5 - low, ---, paul.poulain, Pushed to Stable , Upgrading from 2.2 does not work anymore
16:02 eythian        make sense.
16:02 eythian        I can't remember how we did the upgrade way back when.
16:07 kf             @wunder Konstanz
16:07 huginn         kf: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 27.0°C (6:00 PM CEST on June 28, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 45%. Dew Point: 17.0°C. Pressure: 29.82 in 1010 hPa (Falling).
16:07 kf             it started to rain :(
16:07 kf             hm
16:07 kf             it's raining.
16:07 mtompset       @wunder mnl
16:07 huginn         mtompset: The current temperature in Loyola Heights, Quezon City, Philippines is 25.1°C (11:59 PM PHT on June 28, 2012). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 24.0°C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
16:08 magnuse        @wunder boo
16:08 mtompset       At least it's a reasonable humidity there. :)
16:08 huginn         magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 11.0°C (5:50 PM CEST on June 28, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 54%. Dew Point: 2.0°C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
16:08 magnuse        ahhh...
16:08 mtompset       11C? That's freezing!
16:09 eythian        @wunder brighton, uk
16:09 huginn         eythian: The current temperature in Brighton, Brighton, United Kingdom is 16.4°C (5:00 PM BST on June 28, 2012). Conditions: Fog. Humidity: 99%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Steady).
16:09 eythian        so sticky here :(
16:09 mtompset       And I thought here was bad!
16:09 kf             it was here... actually the rain is a good thing
16:10 mtompset       @wunder laguna, philippines
16:10 huginn         mtompset: Error: timed out
16:10 mtompset       Nope, not popular enough. :)
16:10 mtompset       I think we have a Typhoon coming at the Philippines.
16:13 mtompset       Greetings, talljoy
16:13 mtompset       Can't do much about humidity when Ocean water is swirling over the islands.
16:14 talljoy        hiya!
16:17 mtompset       @wunder boracay, philippines
16:17 huginn         mtompset: Error: timed out
16:17 mtompset       Where does huginn get its weather data from?
16:17 mveron         @wunder Allschwil
16:18 huginn         mveron: Error: timed out
16:18 mveron         @wunder Basel
16:18 huginn         mveron: Error: timed out
16:18 mtompset       Oh oh! It's late, and I'm feeling craaaaazy...
16:18 mtompset       @wunder bar
16:19 huginn         mtompset: Error: timed out
16:19 eythian        mtompset: wunderground
16:19 eythian        @wunder wellington, nz
16:19 huginn         eythian: Error: timed out
16:19 eythian        I think wundeground may be broken
16:19 eythian        though, the site's working. Who knows.
16:21 mtompset       @wunder iaklanbo2
16:21 huginn         mtompset: Error: timed out
16:22 mtompset       @wunder aklan
16:22 huginn         mtompset: Error: timed out
16:22 mtompset       @wunder AKLAN, PH
16:22 huginn         mtompset: Error: timed out
16:23 mtompset       5 more minutes... should be to a fresh instal.
16:24 mtompset       then I can prep for koha.
16:27 mtompset       cleaning up 97%... why does 3% take 97% of the time?
16:27 mtompset       @wunder subic bay
16:27 huginn         mtompset: Error: timed out
16:27 mtompset       @wunder Subic Bay, PH
16:27 huginn         mtompset: Error: timed out
16:27 slef           stop hammering huginn... he won't recover any sooner
16:28 mtompset       Are you sure it is a he? But you're right, less spamming.
16:29 slef           no, not sure, indeed
16:29 drojf          ok, "library without borders" took a week to not answer my question about what library system they use. "It's not easy to answer your simple question, because it depends on the particular project.". nice
16:29 jcamins        drojf: told ya.
16:29 slef           drojf: library without answers
16:29 eythian        sounds like they're not particularly organised in that manner internally then perhaps
16:30 slef           might be a good and a bad thing
16:30 mtompset       I have an archivist friend who was interested in that organization a while back.
16:31 mtompset       You didn't ask a yes/no question.
16:31 drojf          i suppose they dont have a million projects and dont use a gazillion systems, so i guess "a and b and c" would have been an easy answer. if there is actually someone who knows this, i guess there isnt
16:31 mtompset       Yes, but that assumes that someone knows about all projects.
16:32 * jcamins      has already expressed his feelings on this organization.
16:32 mtompset       I take that as not a positive, jcamins?
16:32 jcamins        mtompset: not positive at all, no.
16:32 drojf          jcamins: yeah we talked about it. i already forgot i asked them, was slightly confused getting an email about "my inquiry"
16:32 jcamins        lol
16:33 jcamins        mtompset: with the exception of a few faith-based organizations (SIL included), I have no use for NGO "relief" agencies.
16:34 jcamins        [off] (and, so it's clear, I do not believe in proselytizing, I just didn't see anyone with an explicitly non-religious agenda doing anything of value for the Afghans)
16:35 mtompset       Okay. So, you are talking from experience then.
16:36 jcamins        mtompset: yeah, I spent three months as a librarian in Afghanistan, and tried to offer help to LWB in an entirely separate situation.
16:36 kf             jcamins: remind me to talk to you about updating the marc frameworks?
16:36 kf             :)
16:37 jcamins        kf: there's a bug for that.
16:37 * kf           sends herself areminder email home
16:37 jcamins        @search marc21
16:37 huginn         jcamins: There were no matching configuration variables.
16:37 kf             yes, I saw that rangi did somethig
16:37 jcamins        @query marc21
16:37 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3092 normal, P1 - high, ---, frederic, NEW , Data values storage and use 100 bug meta-bug
16:37 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=1218 enhancement, P2, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , New plugin for MARC21 replacement cost
16:37 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2514 enhancement, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , special default fields for MARC21 records
16:37 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2559 normal, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Language limit on Spanish returns Russian records or is it English ...
16:37 huginn         jcamins: 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2280 normal, P3, ---, henridamien, NEW , authorized value for indicators in UNIMARC Framework at field level
16:37 kf             but I am not sure we want to do it that way
16:37 jcamins        Thanks, huginn...
16:37 jcamins        kf: better that way than not at all. :(
16:37 kf             yeah, but deleting the obsoleted fields?
16:37 mtompset       "Language limit on Spanish returns Russian records or is it English"?!
16:37 * mtompset     laughs.
16:37 fredericd      Does tagging still work on HEAD/3.8.2? For me, no
16:38 kf             fredericd: I did test some time ago for eythian's patch - it did at that time, but something might have changed
16:38 kf             was at the hackfest
16:38 kf             what is not working for you?
16:38 jcamins        kf: yeah, rangi and I discussed it.
16:39 eythian        fredericd: tagging is broken in 3.8.2
16:39 jcamins        I think my conclusion was that since it's only for new installs, it's not a big deal.
16:39 fredericd      eythian: thanks, indeed
16:39 eythian        there's a patch for it that I think is lined up to go in
16:39 fredericd      eythian: do you have bug number, I can't find it
16:39 kf             jcamins: I kinda promised paul to do something about the frameowrks - because of the changes for the maximal size of fields
16:40 eythian        bug 8315
16:40 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8315 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Passed QA , fix 'C4::Output 3.02' errors in Koha
16:40 kf             and thought we could wrap that into a bigger patch working out some of the related bugs
16:40 jcamins        kf: ooh, excellent, you should fix it. :)
16:40 mtompset       I wanted to page up.. instead... booted out.
16:40 eythian        that patch might not be complete, details are on the bug though
16:40 fredericd      thanks. that's it. I have this warning in logs
16:40 kf             jcamins: so I am going to work on it - only trying to sort out what needs to be done and how we want to do it :)
16:41 kf             and hopefully closing lots of the related bugs in the process.
16:41 mtompset       related bugs closed is good!
16:41 jcamins        Any bug closing is good!
16:42 mtompset       but related bugs with one patch is better. :)
16:43 mtompset       And now for the VM reboot, and the git getting gotten.
16:45 mtompset       git?
16:45 wahanui        git is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Version_Control_Using_Git
16:51 mtompset       Would you recommend doing the git under the 'koha' user name, or the developer's account?
17:05 jcamins        mtompset: I work under my own account.
17:05 jcamins        Well, that's what I do on my own computer.
17:05 jcamins        On my servers that I use for testing, I have a koha user.
17:05 jcamins        But I just push from my own computers to that one.
17:05 jcamins        Those. There are two at the moment.
17:07 mtompset       So the git is yours, but the koha one is really just a giant rsync?
17:07 jcamins        Right.
17:08 jcamins        I mean, I use git push to maintain it, but I handle it like it's rsync.
17:09 mtompset       Since I don't have the luxury of disk space... I'm thinking I'll just git clone under koha.
17:09 jcamins        mtompset: those are two different computers for me.
17:09 mtompset       since this is just my own VM anyways.
17:09 jcamins        Let me step back and explain what I just explained. :)
17:10 jcamins        I am a Koha support vendor. I, personally, do development in a VM that runs on my laptop.
17:10 jcamins        However, my clients do not have access to that laptop.
17:10 jcamins        So they have test servers.
17:10 mtompset       The test servers run from the koha user.
17:10 jcamins        Right.
17:10 jcamins        On my VM, though, everything is done as my user.
17:11 jcamins        And I do have Koha running on the VM.
17:11 mtompset       That makes sense for your context.
17:11 jcamins        Right.
17:12 mtompset       Mine is one where I'm just trying to generate a patch or two.
17:12 jcamins        For you, there's no need for those extra servers.
17:12 mtompset       I was thinking running under koha...
17:12 jcamins        You can do that too. It's whichever user you prefer to log in as.
17:12 mtompset       So that if I upgrade install a development version I could rsync between the two.
17:12 jcamins        I prefer jcamins because SSH uses that automatically.
17:13 jcamins        And git push handles different SSH users.
17:13 mtompset       rsync I understand... git push is another scary beast.
17:15 jcamins        It's basically rsync but it understand git repositories so it transfers even less data.
17:17 mtompset       okay user.name, user.email, format.headers...
17:18 mtompset       cloning into kohaclone
17:20 mtompset       doing an apt-get upgrade and git clone at the same time is a bear on the bandwidth.
17:20 jcamins        Hehe. Yeah, it would be.
17:21 mtompset       Greetings, nengard.
17:21 mtompset       Did I correctly notice it is your birthday?
17:23 nengard        yesterday
17:23 mtompset       Belated Happy Birthday.
17:23 nengard        thank you! :)
17:31 * cait         waves
17:31 mtompset       Greetings, cait.
17:31 cait           hi mtompset
17:31 jcamins        o/
17:31 cait           hi jcamins :)
17:38 mtompset       git clone: 25%
17:39 mtompset       installing apt-get upgrades
17:39 mtompset       and I think I've made all the tweaks that don't require an install of something.
17:41 mtompset       are there any major differences between a standard install and a development install?
17:41 jcamins        Yes.
17:41 mtompset       same questions?
17:41 jcamins        Development install uses the files in your kohaclone.
17:42 jcamins        Well, many of them, anyway.
17:42 jcamins        Standard install creates copies.
17:42 mtompset       Yes, that I know.
17:42 jcamins        If you're doing development, you need to do a development install.
17:42 jcamins        Then what's the question? :)
17:42 mtompset       If I answer "development", there aren't going to be other questions that the standard doesn't ask?
17:43 jcamins        Ah.
17:43 jcamins        No there will not be.
17:43 mtompset       There isn't going to be a secret handshake step that only the privileged few know about by answering 42 to step number X?
17:48 jcamins        Nope.
17:48 mtompset       But I bet you wanted to add one. :P
17:50 mtompset       Wow this is painfully slow over a 1Mbps line.
17:50 mtompset       I don't know how I survived with only 384Kbps.
17:51 jcamins        lol
17:51 jcamins        mtompset: I have cloned Koha over a connection that felt that 17Kbps was a good speed.
17:51 jcamins        I hope to never do that again.
17:52 jcamins        And no, that wasn't in Afghanistan. That was in New York.
17:52 mtompset       If it was that slow, I'd go to sleep!
17:52 mtompset       No, I believe you.
17:52 mtompset       Rural parts of the US still have really poor internet connectivity.
17:53 jcamins        mtompset: city.
17:53 mtompset       That's scary.
17:53 mtompset       Dial up?
17:54 mtompset       That was like when I upgraded to XP SP2 over dial up over a decade ago.
17:54 mtompset       well, about a decade ago.
17:54 jcamins        Nope... cable.
17:54 jcamins        I called and complained.
17:55 mtompset       They probably over-subscribed their lines.
17:55 mtompset       Greed is bad that way.
17:56 mtompset       Yep... looks like just over 600MB will be downloaded in this git clone.
17:57 mtompset       correction... just under.
17:57 mtompset       What timezone are you in?
17:57 drojf          mtompset: they all over-subscribe. that is part of the concept. and it would be more expensive otherwise
17:58 mtompset       You're probably right, drojf.
17:59 jcamins        EST... UTC-4 at the moment, I think.
18:01 mtompset       1PM there?
18:01 jcamins        2.
18:02 mtompset       I thought Eastern was 13 hours off... it's 2AM here.
18:02 jcamins        Something to do with Daylight Savings Time?
18:02 mtompset       It's 13 off in the fall? okay.
18:02 mtompset       Philippines doesn't do DST.
18:03 jcamins        And the US does extra DST for the past, what, ten years?
18:03 mtompset       extra?
18:04 jcamins        Yep.
18:04 jcamins        Starts earlier, ends later.
18:04 mtompset       I thought there was only spring forward, fall back?
18:04 jcamins        Cost a fortune in productivity.
18:04 mtompset       Oh you mean the days are shifted.
18:04 jcamins        There is, but now we do it at a different time than the rest of the world.
18:04 jcamins        Right.
18:05 mtompset       Nationalistic Pride? :)
18:10 jcamins        I presume so.
18:10 jcamins        Hard to see any other justification.
18:16 mtompset       70,000 objects to go.
18:17 mtompset       Woah... that was a blast.
18:17 mtompset       50,000 to go.
18:18 slef           mtompset: you could have saved some time by only downloading the branch(es) you are interested in... but that is probably too long now.
18:18 slef           too late, even
18:18 jcamins        slef: is that possible?
18:18 * jcamins      did not know that.
18:19 slef           jcamins: oooh, now you're making me think. It might not be possible with git clone directly.
18:20 mtompset       10,000 to go... YAY! Almost done.
18:21 mtompset       Resolving Deltas... oh my.
18:22 slef           jcamins: mmm, yes, looks like one has to git init, then remote add, then fetch :-/
18:22 slef           jcamins: did anyone run git gc on the main repo?
18:23 slef           the one that should reduce it to below 200M, that I linked earlier
18:23 jcamins        slef: I thought gmcharlt did.
18:23 * mtompset     smirks, "apt-get upgrade is still installing!"
18:23 slef           "The 2007 US change was part of the Energy Policy Act of 2005; previously, from 1987 through 2006, the start and end dates were the first Sunday in April and the last Sunday in October, and Congress retains the right to go back to the previous dates now that an energy-consumption study has been done" -- http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DST
18:25 slef           "This section of the act is controversial; some have questioned whether daylight saving results in net energy savings." -- http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Act_of_2005
18:26 slef           Is there a neat way to put a listbox into a warning box on the checkout screen?
18:26 slef           to let the librarian choose between ways of resolving a problem
18:26 mtompset       How can switching on different days result in energy savings?!
18:26 slef           but I guess I could present a series of buttons
18:26 cait           I think we mostly do buttons for actions
18:26 cait           so that would be consistent
18:27 slef           mtompset: fewer total people-awake hours in darkness, so less use of heat+light
18:28 mtompset       Yes, but 8AM-5PM is still working hours... so light out and shifted hours means nothing.
18:29 slef           if 8AM is now warm+light when it was cold+dark before, less artificial heat+light needed, see?
18:29 mtompset       Okay... that makes more sense.
18:32 mtompset       Glad that a thumb drive write speed should be faster than a hard drive... because this resolving deltas is slow.
18:32 mtompset       I was hoping is was a 2 minute thing.
18:35 mtompset       This tango with git is more like pulling a rock uphill.
18:36 slef           at least you're not pushing... then if you slip, you get squished
18:36 mtompset       well, it is more like pushing in the pain. But it is more like pulling in that's the direction it's going.
18:39 mtompset       Ah, the source of the pain is low memory in the virtual machine.
18:50 mtompset       Note to self: 768MB is not enough.
18:51 drojf          what os?
18:51 jcamins        mtompset: that should be plenty.
18:51 mtompset       ubuntu 12.04 in a VM.
18:51 mtompset       Not for an apt-get upgrade AND a git clone at the same time.
18:52 drojf          the vm has 768mb or all together?
18:52 drojf          heh maybe nor
18:52 drojf          not
18:52 jcamins        Oh, well, yeah, that might be a bit much.
18:52 jcamins        But either one will work happily with 768MB/RAM.
18:53 mtompset       They are both grunting along.
18:53 mtompset       Have about 60MB free.
18:54 mtompset       Finally, apt-get upgrade finished.
18:54 mtompset       hopefully successfully... no errors were given.
18:54 mtompset       And there goes the git clone.
19:02 mtompset       Okay, while I'm wait... what if a single patch fixes two bugs?
19:02 mtompset       waiting...
19:02 slef           mtompset: we cheer?
19:03 mtompset       yes, that's fine and dandy... but which bug report do I put the suggested patch on?
19:03 mtompset       both?
19:03 wahanui        both are port 80.
19:03 jcamins        mtompset: you put the patch on one of them, and update the other.
19:03 mtompset       forget both
19:03 wahanui        mtompset: I forgot both
19:03 jcamins        For an example, bug 2060 and bug 7475
19:03 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2060 enhancement, P3, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Ability to import Authorities from Staff Client
19:03 slef           either, and probably mark the other as Depends or SeeAlso (do we have that?)
19:03 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7475 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Option to overlay authorities
19:03 jcamins        Okay, that's a little different because I used a batch.
19:04 jcamins        We have see also, but better to use depends.
19:04 mtompset       bug 7352
19:04 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7352 normal, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, NEW , moremember.pl generates error in Template.pm related to missing $key value
19:04 mtompset       bug 7630
19:04 huginn         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7630 minor, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, NEW , Warning on moremember.pl about param without key
19:04 jcamins        Also, my example isn't so good because actually there are two different functions that depend on each other.
19:05 mtompset       Actually, this was where I was going to grep for \$[:alpha:]*\s*=>\s*
19:06 mtompset       because we have $template->param( ....
19:06 mtompset       with some variable as a key with a value.
19:06 mtompset       And this triggers the same message that is being generated in Template.pm
19:07 mtompset       particularly when the variable is undef or blank.
19:07 mtompset       I think the git clone is done... time for reboot.
19:09 mtompset       a few more updates... and then I'm ready for a koha dev install.
19:10 cait           :)
19:18 mtompset       Has anyone determined if version 7 of the JDK is okay (as compared to version 6)?
19:21 jcamins        mtompset: JDK?
19:22 mtompset       JRE JDK... whatever.
19:22 jcamins        mtompset: Koha doesn't use Java at all.
19:23 jcamins        So, yeah, you can use whichever version you like.
19:23 mtompset       Really?
19:23 mtompset       So I can axe that from the list of things to install, okay.
19:24 jcamins        Yeah.
19:24 jcamins        Why did you have it on your list in the first place?
19:24 mtompset       Because... that is what was originally on the Koha on Ubuntu page.
19:24 drojf1         what page?
19:24 wahanui        hmmm... page is too big?
19:25 mtompset       http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Ubuntu
19:25 mtompset       It was there before I edit'd it.
19:25 drojf1         "DO NOT ATTEMPT TO INSTALL KOHA 3.8.X ON UBUNTU 8.04 -- IT FAILS!" <- lol
19:26 mtompset       I put that it...
19:26 mtompset       I tried, just for fun.
19:26 mtompset       And it was only one tiny dependency that messed it up too.
19:27 drojf1         why would you want to use an ancient version of ubuntu?
19:27 mtompset       Because 8.04 LTS is supported until next year.
19:27 mtompset       Not because I want to, but because it is supported still.
19:28 cait           mtompset: the installation instructions in Koha INSTALL.* are usually better than the instructions on the wiki
19:28 drojf1         yes that is great for people that started using it in 2008. those people might have switched to a newer lts version by now. but why would you install that NOW? :D
19:28 mtompset       I've made every effort to make it the other way around for Ubuntu. :)
19:29 cait           someone watching soccer?
19:30 mtompset       What does soccer have to do with installation?
19:30 drojf1         cait: i do, even though i am not really interested. ard stream is unusable, zatoo seems to work
19:31 cait           using zattoo too
19:31 cait           well... if we loose... less noise
19:31 cait           mtompset: nothing :)
19:31 drojf1         exactly my ppoint :D
19:31 cait           heh
19:32 mtompset       Why would I watch football anyways? Canada never gets anywhere near the finals.
19:54 mtompset       Greetings, matts
19:54 matts          hi !
19:55 matts          Unusal time to connect, for me...
19:55 matts          waiting for the marseille crew to arrive to my place...
19:56 drojf1         hi matts. what are you going to do?
19:56 matts          http://journeesperl.fr/fpw2012/ (warning, it's in french)
19:56 matts          It's the "Perl Days" in Strasbourg, France, starting tomorrow
19:57 matts          So I'm hosting a few of my fellow coworkers in my town
19:57 drojf1         ah yes i heard biblibre is going with a few people
19:57 matts          and in my house, of course :)
19:57 drojf1         :)
19:58 matts          But they had a late flight, so they'll arrive a quarter before midnight
19:58 matts          These two days of conferences will be coool
19:58 matts          topics are nice
19:59 * mtompset     tries to stay awake for downloading and installation of prerequisites for Koha.
19:59 * drojf1       needs to learn a lot more about perl before he could go there
19:59 matts          eiro (former biblibre coworker) will make a few conferences
19:59 mtompset       That's what Google is for.
20:00 mtompset       :)
20:00 matts          There's more than one way to google it ? :)
20:00 mtompset       There are only three commands in the universe. :)
20:00 mtompset       load
20:00 mtompset       compare
20:00 mtompset       jump
20:00 matts          old skool :)
20:00 mtompset       Everything else is just too fancy. ;)
20:02 mtompset       And before that... there was only one: lcj. It did all three at once!
20:12 cait           matts: who is visiting? :)
20:12 matts          hi cat
20:12 kathryn        morning!
20:12 wahanui        morning is a state of mind. or whenever the cat wants breakfast.
20:12 matts          cait,
20:12 matts          sorry
20:12 cait           morning kathryn :)
20:12 matts          there will be hdl, asaurat, christophe_c, Joubu, julian_m, Kivutar (former from biblibre) and me
20:12 kathryn        hiya cait :)
20:13 cait           matts: nice :)
20:13 matts          wahanui, the cat *always* wants breakfast !
20:13 wahanui        matts: what?
20:13 matts          wahanui, what what ? :)
20:13 wahanui        matts: wish i knew
20:14 matts          Am I talking to a bot ?
20:14 matts          sigh
20:15 drojf1         :D
20:15 mtompset       who is a bot?
20:15 cait           lol
20:15 cait           mtompset: wahanui is
20:15 cait           wahanui botsnack cookie
20:15 wahanui        :)
20:15 cait           drojf1 botsnack cookie
20:15 drojf1         wahanui botsnack beer
20:15 wahanui        thanks drojf1 :)
20:15 drojf1         thanks cait
20:15 drojf1         :D
20:15 cait           hah! i knew it
20:16 jcamins        matts catsnack breakfast
20:16 jcamins        :)
20:16 matts          I (almost) failed the turing test !
20:17 mtompset       how could you fail it if you provide reasonable answers?
20:17 jcamins        lol
20:17 matts          I answered to the bot...
20:17 mtompset       oh... I'm half awake. Didn't notice. :)
20:17 matts          twice
20:17 jcamins        mtompset: shouldn't it be about 4am there?
20:18 mtompset       Yes... And I've almost got the prerequisites installed.
20:18 cait           @quote random
20:18 huginn         cait: Quote #77: "*chris_n wants to know if nengard figures out how to do 1 million things at once... and if she will release the source code or not" (added by jdavidb at 05:02 PM, June 21, 2010)
20:18 nengard        LOL
20:18 cait           @quote random
20:18 huginn         cait: Quote #178: "jcamins: IIS kills kittens" (added by wizzyrea at 05:20 PM, January 10, 2012)
20:18 cait           heh
20:18 cait           hi nengard
20:19 mtompset       This indexing problem related to memory issues is bugging me!
20:20 matts          what ? 32To of RAM is not enough ? Kidding, right ? :)
20:20 mtompset       We've got 512.
20:20 mtompset       MB
20:20 matts          MB ?
20:20 mtompset       MB.
20:20 matts          I'm sorry, are you from the past ?
20:20 jcamins        mtompset: you're having indexing problems related to memory?
20:20 mtompset       No, I'm being hosted.
20:21 mtompset       Zebra reindexes, but I can't find the
20:21 jcamins        searching faq?
20:21 wahanui        searching faq is at http://koha-community.org/documentation/faq/
20:21 jcamins        ^^ nothing to do with RAM. :)
20:22 matts          increase shadow ?
20:22 matts          gotta go... grab something to eat...
20:22 matts          cheers
20:22 jcamins        matts: nah, I'm thinking zebrasrv isn't running.
20:23 jcamins        :)
20:23 jcamins        Enjoy your snack.
20:23 mtompset       I just restarted it.
20:23 mtompset       It was running.
20:23 jcamins        mtompset: how did you restart it?
20:23 jcamins        Results not showing up is not a symptom of RAM shortage.
20:23 mtompset       service koha-zebra-daemon stop
20:23 mtompset       then start.
20:24 jcamins        If the problem is RAM, the symptom you should be seeing is Apache crashing hard.
20:24 jcamins        If you are getting a "No results" message, the problem is not RAM but a configuration issue of some sort.
20:24 jcamins        For example, running rebuild_zebra.pl directly.
20:24 mtompset       I did.
20:24 mtompset       -b -a -e
20:25 mtompset       ^e^r
20:25 jcamins        But you are using the pakcages?
20:25 jcamins        *packages
20:25 cait           mtompset: try with -v?
20:25 cait           to see if there are any errors
20:25 mtompset       I did with -v... no errors.
20:25 cait           and your zebra files belong to the your koha user?
20:25 mtompset       yes.
20:26 jcamins        You shouldn't run rebuild_zebra.pl directly if you are using the packages.
20:26 jcamins        Are you using the Debian packages?
20:26 mtompset       no.
20:26 jcamins        Okay. Never mind, then.
20:26 mtompset       wget latest.tar.gz
20:26 cait           jcamins: I think he did a dev install?
20:26 mtompset       no
20:26 mtompset       standard off tgz
20:26 cait           a
20:26 jcamins        cait: this is his other server.
20:26 * jcamins      thinks he's managed to follow, more or less.
20:26 mtompset       I haven't finished the dev one yet.
20:27 jcamins        git checkout bug_8207
20:27 jcamins        Sorry.
20:27 * jcamins      just rearchitected his entire infrastructure, and now needs a break.
20:27 jcamins        (network infrastructure)
20:28 jcamins        (I did not just knock down the apartment building and rebuild it)
20:30 cait           ah sorry
20:31 mtompset       what env variables need to be set? $KOHA_CONF and $PERL5LIB, right?
20:32 jcamins        That's correct.
20:32 mtompset       does $KOHAPATH need to be set?
20:33 jcamins        Nope.
20:38 mtompset       I'm running with a single -v.
20:39 jcamins        How large is the Zebra database on disk?
20:39 mtompset       where do I find it?
20:39 jcamins        With standard I think it's /var/lib/koha.
20:40 mtompset       I'll take a look after the reindex finishes... just another couple minutes.
20:40 jcamins        /var/lib/koha/zebradb, I think.
20:41 mtompset       ....
20:41 mtompset       then authorities or biblio...
20:41 jcamins        Both.
20:41 jcamins        Just du -h /var/lib/koha/zebradb
20:42 mtompset       1.8GB and it's in the middle of the reindex
20:43 jcamins        Okay, the problem is with searching not indexing.
20:43 mtompset       1.1GB and it is done.
20:43 jcamins        So chances are your cron job is being run by the wrong user.
20:43 jcamins        At least, that would be my guess.
20:43 mtompset       what the ?!
20:43 mtompset       It's showing up now.
20:44 jcamins        That's why I was thinking it was probably the user you have the cron job under.
20:44 mtompset       Well, I sudo'd so running as root works... I should sudo and attempt running as koha.
20:44 jcamins        If it's working now, that means zebrasrv is running as root.
20:45 jcamins        So you need to change the user in the koha-zebra-daemon init script.
20:48 mtompset       No, the zebra daemon is running as koha.
20:48 jcamins        But when you used sudo to run the indexer it worked?
20:48 mtompset       yes...
20:48 mtompset       Does your brain hurt yet?
20:48 jcamins        It is a bit odd.
20:48 jcamins        Try...
20:49 jcamins        `sudo chown -R koha:koha /var/lib/koha/zebradb`
20:49 jcamins        Then reindex as koha, and see if it still works.
20:49 mtompset       BAM!
20:50 mtompset       *.mf is root:root
20:50 jcamins        Okay.
20:50 jcamins        So you'll need to change the owner to koha, reindex *as koha* and restart the Zebra daemon.
20:51 mtompset       zebra daemon is running as koha
20:51 mtompset       That solves that problem, I think.
20:51 mtompset       I hate permissions!
20:53 mtompset       Thanks for the pointer.
20:53 mtompset       I should have thought of that.
20:54 mtompset       Re-running index as koha.
20:54 mtompset       Confirming that won't break it.
20:55 mtompset       Good thing we only have 39Kish records.
21:03 mtompset       you have got to be kidding me...
21:05 mtompset       okay... why did I have to restart the daemon to get it to work?
21:05 jcamins        You mean after reindexing again?
21:05 jcamins        Permissions get "stuck."
21:06 mtompset       yes.
21:07 mtompset       that's dumb. But okay.
21:07 mtompset       Still waiting on prerequisites to install.
21:08 mtompset       I really want to git pull and then branch somehow, make my change, and then post the patch!
21:10 mtompset       So this is the CHI everyone is talking about.
21:10 jcamins        mtompset: you don't actually need CHI.
21:10 jcamins        Unless you're patching the caching code.
21:11 mtompset       it's listed as required.
21:11 mtompset       ./koha_perl_deps.pl -m
21:12 jcamins        mtompset: it is?
21:12 mtompset       Yes.
21:12 jcamins        It shouldn't be.
21:12 jcamins        I swear it wasn't when I submitted the patch that marked it optional...
21:12 mtompset       Can't hurt to install it anyways.
21:13 jcamins        No, having CHI is a good idea, 'cause then you can see if CHI will help.
21:13 jcamins        But still.
21:14 mtompset       CHI
21:14 mtompset       CHI cached something?
21:14 mtompset       and two others were listed.
21:14 mtompset       But they weren't CHI.
21:15 jcamins        Actually, I'm not sure what that stands for, actually.
21:15 mtompset       So 3.6.3 DB to 3.8.2 should go smoothly if I go from mysql dumps?
21:15 mtompset       cache handling interface?
21:15 mtompset       I think I saw that in the aptitude search I did.
21:16 mtompset       You can see the logic I use to find it as a package rather than CPAN it in koha_on_ubuntu. :)
21:16 jcamins        Yeah, cache handling interface sounds right.
21:17 jcamins        Yes, the upgrade will be very smooth.
21:18 jcamins        Provided you didn't do any foolish like making changes to the code on your production system.
21:21 mtompset       So what you are saying it, that I should do a 3.6.3 install from scratch and then an upgrade install. :P
21:22 jcamins        Well, you haven't done anything too foolish yet.
21:22 jcamins        So you should be fine.
21:23 mtompset       But I am confused... how can I turn a STANDARD install into a DEV install?
21:24 mtompset       Because doesn't the upgrade install need an install log?
21:24 jcamins        No, you just do the dev install, and load the data into your database.
21:25 jcamins        So, say your database is called koha.
21:25 mtompset       Ah...
21:25 mtompset       so... dev install.
21:25 mtompset       put the data in.
21:25 mtompset       web installer?
21:25 jcamins        You do all the installation up to the web install, load the data, then run the web installer.
21:25 jcamins        Exactly.
21:26 mtompset       CHI is taking a while to install.
21:27 mtompset       AH... system restart required... the dselect installed a new kernel.
21:28 jcamins        Heh. No wonder it took so long... you're also updating the entire rest of the system.
21:28 mtompset       YES!
21:28 mtompset       From scratch.
21:28 mtompset       Fresh OS install.
21:29 mtompset       16GB VM drive.
21:29 mtompset       on the USB drive.
21:29 jcamins        No, I mean, no wonder the CHI install took so long... you haven't finished the whole upgrade reboot upgrade reboot process. ;)
21:30 mtompset       And I pressed CTRL-S to page up... and forgot to press CTRL-Q.
21:30 mtompset       The stupid things you do when you're half-awake.
21:31 mtompset       I'm hoping the new virtualbox version and kernel version work together nicely.
21:31 mtompset       the previous version and 24 required a rootdelay=120 in the boot command line.
21:32 jcamins        I've never had problems, not even with a netbook.
21:33 mtompset       Also, why did the packages selection upgrade my kernel?
21:36 mtompset       Oh... it isn't required... the CHI had mandatory no, but it was listed.
21:36 jcamins        I told you it shouldn't be mandatory.
21:37 mtompset       I'm half awake. Anything listed in mandatory in my mind. :)
21:37 mtompset       ^in^is^
21:37 jcamins        Heh.
21:37 mtompset       drat!
21:37 mtompset       I'll have to CPAN a module.
21:38 mtompset       template-plugin-htmltotext
21:38 mtompset       I was hoping for a CPAN'less install.
21:39 jcamins        What OS are you on?
21:39 mtompset       Ubuntu 12.04
21:39 wahanui        hmmm... Ubuntu 12.04 is frensh.
21:40 jcamins        wahanui: forget Ubuntu 12.04
21:40 wahanui        jcamins: I forgot ubuntu 12.04
21:40 jcamins        It might be in the debian.k-c.org repo, and it's certainly in mine.
21:40 jcamins        [off] deb http://apt.cpbibliography.com/koha dependencies
21:40 mtompset       I'll CPAN it, thanks.
21:40 jcamins        Okay.
21:40 drojf1         mtompset:  sudo dh-make-perl --build --cpan template-plugin-htmltotext ? not actually cpan-less, but a deb package you can install or delete…
21:41 jcamins        drojf1: ooh, one step?
21:41 jcamins        Nifty!
21:41 drojf1         learned that on the plack wiki page :)
21:42 drojf1         there is even --install but it did not work for me. --build and install with dpkg did
21:42 mtompset       That's interesting, but I'll do it the "hard" way.
21:43 drojf1         heh
21:43 jcamins        It's 5am! Do it the easy way.
21:43 mtompset       5:42am.
21:43 jcamins        Also, the easier way is better because it makes maintenace easier.
21:43 drojf1         ouch
21:43 mtompset       CPAN isn't that much harder.
21:44 mtompset       just let me get cpan configured first.
21:44 mtompset       then quit.
21:44 drojf1         :D
21:44 mtompset       that do the build thingy.
21:46 mtompset       Yes, I have to admit the dpkg way let's you remove it nicely later.
21:46 jcamins        mtompset: and upgrade easily when it becomes available on multiverse.
21:47 mtompset       will a dpkg upgrade nicely with apt-get?
21:48 jcamins        Yup.
21:48 drojf1         yes
21:48 jcamins        apt-get is a wrapper around dpkg.
21:49 mtompset       okay... here goes... it is Template::Plugin::HtmlToText not the - thing I said.
21:51 mtompset       dh-make-perl is another thing to install, I think.
21:52 mtompset       YIKES! That's a lot more to install.
21:52 mtompset       CPAN would have been faster.
21:52 jcamins        Better to do it right than fast.
21:53 mtompset       38 more files to install later...
21:53 mtompset       grunt grunt...
21:54 mtompset       hey, there's the www-mechanize-perl thing you were mentioning.
21:54 drojf1         there would still be the repo of jcamins ;)
21:54 jcamins        Yes, there's that too.
21:55 mtompset       dh-make-perl is installing it.
21:55 jcamins        WWW::Mechanize? Huh.
21:55 mtompset       Yep.
21:56 drojf1         "previous rebase directory /home/pi/koha/.git/rebase-apply still exists but mbox given." what is that supposed to mean?
21:56 mtompset       Shh... no scary git messages. I just want to make my first patch.
21:57 jcamins        Are you in the middle of a rebase?
21:57 drojf1         actually i was just making a new branch to try the solr patch. but it was complaining about something before until i stashed my changes in the other branch
21:58 jcamins        Well, if you're sure you're not in the middle of a rebase, do git rebase --abort
21:58 drojf1         It looks like git-am is in progress. Cannot rebase.
21:59 drojf1         so many funny things i never heared of :)
21:59 * mtompset     plugs his ears, "la la la la la"
21:59 drojf1         sounds like the time. omg, it's git-am already
22:01 mtompset       Where's the like button? ;)
22:02 jcamins        lol
22:02 jcamins        Okay, git am --abort
22:02 jcamins        You were using git-bz?
22:03 mtompset       I hate man-db triggers and ldconfig deferred's.
22:03 mtompset       They take so long.
22:05 mtompset       ARG! It didn't work.
22:05 drojf1         ok that helped. the patch does not apply though. yes i used git-bz
22:05 mtompset       The cpan failed.
22:06 mtompset       series of uninitialized variables.
22:07 mtompset       looks like a manual compile and install.
22:07 jcamins        mtompset: I already pointed you to an apt repo with the needed package.
22:07 drojf1         [off] deb http://apt.cpbibliography.com/koha dependencies
22:07 drojf1         just saying…
22:08 mtompset       okay... what file do I edit where to add this?
22:08 jcamins        I need to move that onto something other than a spare server, so I can link it on the wiki.
22:08 jcamins        /etc/apt/sources.list
22:08 drojf1         /etc/apt/sou… how did you type that so fast??
22:08 drojf1         :D
22:09 jcamins        Oh, missing one word in the copy. Add "main" after dependencies.
22:10 mtompset       [off]?
22:10 jcamins        [off] means that it won't appear in the logs.
22:10 jcamins        Necessary because putting that on an actual server is still on my to-do list.
22:11 jcamins        So more than about three people using it at a time is guaranteed to bring the server down.
22:12 mtompset       http://apt.cpbibliography.com/koha/dists/dependencies
22:12 mtompset       right?
22:12 jcamins        You don't need that /dists/ bit.
22:13 mtompset       So ...
22:14 mtompset       [off] deb http://apt.cpbibliography.com/koha/dependencies
22:14 mtompset       ?
22:14 jcamins        [off] deb http://apt.cpbibliography.com/koha dependendencies main
22:14 jcamins        That exact string.
22:14 jcamins        It all goes on one line.
22:14 drojf1         without the [off]
22:14 jcamins        Then apt-get update && apt-get install libwhatever-we--are-trying-to-install-perl
22:14 jcamins        Right.
22:14 mtompset       dependencies has a space after koha?
22:14 jcamins        Right.
22:15 mtompset       type [off] is not known.
22:16 jcamins        Yeah, no [off]
22:16 jcamins        That was for the IRC channel.
22:17 mtompset       doing an apt-get update.
22:19 mtompset       What does [off] mean?
22:19 jcamins        It means "don't record this line in the logs."
22:22 mtompset       GPG signature issues.
22:22 jcamins        Ignore it.
22:22 drojf1         ignore
22:23 jcamins        Not worth the time to add the apt repo's certificate to your keyring.
22:23 mtompset       It's 6:22am... time has become irrelevant.
22:23 drojf1         says the evil mastermind pretending to be jcamins and distributing crazy things via the repo
22:23 mtompset       I have skipped a day :)
22:24 jcamins        lol
22:24 jcamins        I hope you don't work on Fridays.
22:24 mtompset       [off] I do, but no one will know if I take an afternoon nap.
22:24 jcamins        lol
22:24 mtompset       [off] I work from home.
22:25 jcamins        [off] Now you're getting the hang of #koha! :)
22:27 mtompset       okay package installed...
22:27 mtompset       now to check the sax parser.
22:30 francharb_afk  good night all
22:30 mtompset       good night, francharb_afk
22:31 jcamins        Aw.
22:31 mtompset       Sweet... I'm at the make stages!
22:31 jcamins        If I'd realized he wasn't afk, I would've asked him questions.
22:32 mtompset       dev here I come.
22:32 mtompset       /dev/koha/kohaclone?
22:33 jcamins        No!
22:33 jcamins        Not /dev
22:33 jcamins        /home/koha/koha-dev
22:33 jcamins        /dev is for devices.
22:34 jcamins        And of course your repo should be in something like /home/koha/kohaclone.
22:34 jcamins        Wherever you checked it out to.
22:34 mtompset       Here's a question...
22:34 mtompset       ICU vs. CHR?
22:34 mtompset       Let's say I'm going to have Thai or Chinese characters... ICU?
22:35 jcamins        ICU.
22:35 skeggsc        Hi, I'm trying to install Koha 4.10.05 on a Debian Squeeze server, and most of the tests fail during make test: http://pastebin.com/3XF67c8S
22:35 mtompset       4.10.X... that's a liblime release.
22:35 skeggsc        Huh?
22:35 skeggsc        Did I get the source from the wrong location?
22:36 jcamins        skeggsc: yes you did, sorry. :(
22:36 jcamins        skeggsc: you should get Koha from the Koha website, koha-community.org.
22:36 skeggsc        Thanks. That would be my problem.
22:36 jcamins        Yup. :)
22:36 jcamins        Good luck!
22:37 jcamins        Also, you should think about just using packages.
22:37 jcamins        Let me find the wiki page for you.
22:37 jcamins        It's sooooo much easier.
22:37 jcamins        http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_3.8_on_Debian_Squeeze
22:37 drojf1         he is long gone
22:37 jcamins        Oh.
22:37 jcamins        Oh well.
22:37 jcamins        He'll be back.
22:37 drojf1         no reason not to post that link once in a while
22:38 mtompset       Why are the versions of liblime and koha not synchronized?
22:39 jcamins        mtompset: LibLime forked the code back before 3.2, and did not share their work until Koha had moved on too far for it to be integrated.
22:41 drojf1         also having 4.x makes their version seem ahead of koha
22:41 drojf1         there is an ogg opus codec. yeah, i learned something today
22:42 jcamins        drojf1: still working on the embedded video?
22:42 drojf1         yes but i might skip some of the crazy, unsupportedbynormalbrowsers-parts
22:43 jcamins        lol
22:43 jcamins        Makes sense.
22:43 mtompset       embedded video for what?
22:44 drojf1         make koha play video or audio in the opac if catalogued in field 856
22:44 jcamins        Anything!
22:44 wahanui        anything is, like, possible with enough development work :)
22:44 jcamins        Exactly.
22:47 drojf1         i'm surprised there is nothing like a playlist where filepart01, filepart02 would play one after the other. there i go inventing cataloguing rules for field and subfield repetitions for stuff that doesn't exist :D
22:48 jcamins        drojf1: why wouldn't that happen?
22:48 drojf1         it would, but it appears html5 does not have it
22:48 mtompset       Create your own standard like GRS-1. ;)
22:48 * mtompset     laughs.
22:49 drojf1         heh
22:49 drojf1         i bet loc and ifla will be very happy about me setting rules for html5 video and audio cataloguing in their 856 subfields :D
22:49 jcamins        drojf1: you can't just repeat... something?
22:50 jcamins        drojf1: subfield order *is* significant so there's no reason you couldn't decide that videos were to be played in the order they appeared, if that's all you mean.
22:51 mtompset       No, I think he means, you can't just play it over and over... because you want to?
22:52 jcamins        Hm. schuster worked late today.
22:52 mtompset       BTW... Happy Tau Day (6-28)
22:53 jcamins        Thanks.
22:53 mtompset       Though a friend of mine noted... Happy Perfect Numbers Day.
22:53 drojf1         i would have had an idea what to do with repeating subfields vs repeating the whole 856 field. but the repeating subfield part i thought should be used for file parts, because they have the same mime type and all, not all these subfields are repeatable. but i dont know ho to realize hat in the html5 tags, because it seems to have no equivalent there. if you put several files together, they are alternatives (same file, different format, like .ogg versio
22:54 jcamins        Ah.
22:54 drojf1         or i just have not found it. you can do something with javascript, i have ignored that so far
22:55 drojf1         it gets even crazier with the <track> tag for subtitles
22:58 jcamins        Okay, two more patches submitted.
23:06 mtompset       grunt grunt
23:06 mtompset       make is slow...
23:06 mtompset       koha has so many files!
23:07 mtompset       So, your production servers...
23:07 mtompset       are they dev installs too?
23:07 jcamins        mtompset: no!
23:07 jcamins        Definitely not.
23:07 jcamins        I use packages for production.
23:08 mtompset       So you get a nice dev system patched up the way you want, and then you tgz it, and do an upgrade install?
23:09 jcamins        Basically, except instead of using the tarball I use Debian packages.
23:09 jcamins        So I install with apt-get upgrade
23:10 mtompset       and you point it at the package you made from your dev system.
23:10 jcamins        Right.
23:11 jcamins        I build my production packages using the same environment that I use for releasing 3.6.x.
23:12 jcamins        (though right now eythian builds the packages that are uploaded to debian.koha-community.org)
23:15 mtompset       And the packages basically dump into some subdirectory from which you do an upgrade install?
23:15 jcamins        Nope.
23:15 mtompset       The packages replace the /usr/share/koha?
23:15 jcamins        Right.
23:15 jcamins        And automatically upgrade the database.
23:16 jcamins        It's very convenient.
23:16 jcamins        And mosty foolproof.
23:17 mtompset       whereas, because I'm using Ubuntu and shun using the debian packages, I have to take a couple extra steps. :)
23:17 jcamins        Nah, the Debian packages work perfectly on Ubuntu.
23:18 jcamins        Up until a few weeks ago I used Ubuntu on my production servers.
23:19 mtompset       We'll be sticking with Ubuntu as it has a broader support base within SIL.
23:22 mtompset       Do the packages include setting up apache?
23:22 jcamins        Yup.
23:22 mtompset       Do they set up your preference of MySQL or PostGre?
23:24 jcamins        MySQL.
23:24 jcamins        Postgres does not currently work.
23:30 mtompset       BTW, thanks for the help with the indexes...
23:30 mtompset       we are currently reindexing every hour.
23:30 mtompset       And I haven't lost the ability to search year. :)
23:30 mtompset       search yet.
23:32 mtompset       I should rotate the error logs, so I can look at fresh bugs.
23:32 jcamins        mtompset: why don't you just have it index only the new stuff every ten minutes?
23:32 mtompset       Because -z seemed busted.
23:33 mtompset       I suppose I should ask the librarian if he noticed a new entry after 5 minutes.
23:33 jcamins        Wasn't your indexing not working at all?
23:33 mtompset       Perhaps -z is working now that we fixed permissions and such.
23:34 jcamins        I think it might work better now. ;)
23:34 mtompset       only a full index and sometimes.
23:36 mtompset       just have to remember to not run the index as root.
23:36 mtompset       Otherwise it could break again.
23:37 jcamins        Right.
23:52 mtompset       running the make test.
23:52 mtompset       just had to document the indexing problem for my supervisor and library colleague who is running his own VM.
23:55 jcamins        A very good idea.
23:55 mtompset       FAILED?!
23:55 mtompset       Text/Accent
23:55 mtompset       Test/Unaccent
23:55 mtompset       i'll get it right...
23:56 mtompset       Text/Unaccent
23:56 jcamins        I had issues with that too...
23:56 jcamins        sudo apt-get install libtest-unaccent-perl?
23:56 mtompset       checking...
23:58 mtompset       BTW, that means that misc/PerlDependencies.pm needs to be updated.
23:59 jcamins        It sure does.