IRC log for #koha, 2010-11-10

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:11 dafydd left #koha
00:22 Brooke joined #koha
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01:28 Brooke howdy
01:29 chris wb Brooke
01:29 Brooke where's the move/rename tab on the wiki?
01:30 chris along the top
01:30 chris next to history
01:30 Brooke :/
01:31 chris goes page discussion edit history move watch
01:31 Brooke no tab for me!
01:31 chris what page you looking at
01:31 chris and are you logged in?
01:31 Brooke hmm
01:31 Brooke apparently it depends on what I view
01:32 chris you cant move special pages
01:32 chris like categories etc
01:32 Brooke pffft
01:32 Brooke now I have to be careful
01:33 chris heh
01:33 Brooke I'm used to cryptic, yet strangely forgiving drupal
01:49 chris you gonna make a wiki page with what lori took the time to write an email about, instead of taking the time to make the page ? :-)
01:50 * chris is snarky today
01:50 Brooke don't make me tell you to get back in your cube and develop! *duck*
01:51 chris im not allowed to
01:51 chris apparently i have to talk about talking about talking about rfc
01:51 wizzyrea_ joined #koha
01:51 chris :)
01:52 Brooke not sure it requires another page. I'll have to reread it when I'm more alert
01:52 Brooke I just think it requires better linking
01:52 Brooke and some of it is on the site
01:52 chris yup
01:52 * Brooke is concentrating on messing up the wiki THEN blowing up the site
01:53 chris heh
01:53 wizzyrea_ what are we blowing up?
01:53 Brooke shhhhh
01:53 Brooke I are meeting in sekrut
01:53 chris im documenting how to document documenting documents about documenting
01:53 * wizzyrea_ likes blowing things up
01:53 chris because thats far more productive than just doing shit
01:53 Brooke damn it
01:54 Brooke I think I caught a bad case of snark from Chris
01:54 chris whoops did i say that out loud
01:54 wizzyrea_ lol
01:54 wizzyrea_ well if there is something you would like to do to the site, i'm happy to help >.>
01:54 Brooke division of labour means I can document about documenting documentation while you work on shtuff
01:55 Brooke there's no OR operator in there
01:55 chris heh
01:55 wizzyrea_ oh... i see
01:56 * wizzyrea_ catches up on the list
01:56 wizzyrea_ that's good feedback actually, there should be a spot for RFC's on there, and I'll add a link.
01:56 wizzyrea_ even if only to the RFC category >.>
01:57 Brooke[…]ki/Roadmap_to_3.4
01:58 rach left #koha
01:59 Brooke on the sunny side, I compiled the word data into a preliminary tag cloud
01:59 Brooke so unless 80 bajillion people get back to me on thursday night
01:59 Brooke it'll be done by Friday
02:00 * Brooke can feel a long range plan a comin'
02:00 chris :-)
02:02 wizzyrea_
02:02 wizzyrea_ though it doesn't say why
02:07 Brooke 5 years seem like a logical time frame for planning? Or should I tighten that up given our breakneck release pace? (Though that would increase the number of chairs tossed my way at the suggestion of planning.)
02:08 wizzyrea_ 5 years for the duration of the plan?
02:08 Brooke hai
02:08 wizzyrea_ english...failing... there's a word that i'm thinking of that isn't coming out of my brain
02:08 Brooke (though I could have said 5 years to construct the plan, but that would be mean.)
02:08 chris planning is fine, talking about planning im bored of
02:08 chris ie, just do it
02:09 chris if ppl think its a good idea, they'll follow it, if not ... ah well, you tried :)
02:09 wizzyrea_ that depends on what the lofty goal is you're trying to achieve I think
02:09 * chris_n thinks his 3 point RFC workflow outline sums it up
02:09 chris yes
02:09 chris and add
02:09 chris send patches early and often
02:09 * jcamins_a considers trying to comprehend the scrollback, then concludes it's hopeless.
02:09 jcamins_a is now known as jcamins
02:09 Brooke trying to comprehend me is hopeless
02:10 wizzyrea_ relax, we understand joo
02:10 Brooke however, like a well trained monkey with a typewriter, I can be lucid in certain formats.
02:10 wizzyrea_ lol
02:10 chris gmcharlt++
02:11 Brooke yeah he needs chocolate
02:11 wizzyrea_ what is the lofty goal?
02:11 chris
02:11 Brooke but I've to find a chocolatier
02:11 reva joined #koha
02:11 Brooke hi reva
02:14 reva hi good evening anyone awake. I have installed Koha 3.2 Live CD.It is running on Ubuntu 10.10; I am not able to connect to the internet. Localhost is fine. Any networking experts have solutions? Had similar issues running 3.0.6 through Live CD on Ubuntu10.04. Solved using static address in network configuration.
02:14 reva Hi Brook. Are you new here in Koha-community chat?
02:15 jcamins reva: this is not a Koha issue.
02:15 reva Sorry, that was supposed to be Brooke.
02:15 jcamins I would encourage you to try troubleshooting this on Ubuntu fora.
02:15 wizzyrea_ i'm guessing you have the same problem that you had before
02:15 reva Is there a chat channel for them you recommend, jcamins?
02:15 wizzyrea_ and you need to assign a static
02:16 wizzyrea_
02:16 wizzyrea_ their channels are all on freenode
02:16 reva The 3.2 Live CD had no problem when I tested it on VirtualBox; only when I installed it in the hard disk partition. wizzyrea.
02:17 reva Ok, I followed the solution I found and shared it with the Live CD developer for 3.0.6 running on Ubuntu 10.04. But that is not solving the issue with 10.10.
02:18 wizzyrea_ i'd take it up with the ubuntu folks
02:18 reva ok, I will try the link wizzyrea. Thanks.
02:21 jcamins reva: I just Googled "network troubleshooting ubuntu," and it brought up some results.
02:21 reva The solution I followed before and did not succeed this time is the October 16 entry on this page:[…]-page-3/#comments. Was hoping may be there may be an Ubuntu expert here. Thanks for all the help.
02:21 reva Ok jcamins, I am all ears.:)
02:22 jcamins reva: I meant, you can try that search, and see if someo of the suggestions help.
02:22 chris
02:22 jcamins chris++
02:24 reva oops lost you for a sec there. That was a cool link, it types in the searches by itself, what is that, chris?
02:25 chris
02:26 reva ok, thanks. I love it. I can send it to my counterpart when I have returned to the US.
02:26 reva The things they think of.
02:27 chris :)
02:28 reva I am reading the results.Will be back tomorrow morning after trying. Thanks all for the helpful hints.
02:30 reva wizzyrea, I lost the link you gave for the chat channel when I went off chat for a bit there; could you give me the link again? Thanks in advance.
02:31 Brooke
02:31 jcamins If you Google "Ubuntu support," that'll get you to it also.
02:37 reva ok jcamins.I am at home, and have limited bandwidth. So wanted to capitalize on the mibbit chat here to bookmark.
02:40 Topic for #koha is now Koha -  Next general meeting 10 November 2010 at 19:00 UTC+0.  This channel is logged.  Pastes at RFC How-To he
02:40 Topic for #koha is now Koha -  Next general meeting 10 November 2010 at 19:00 UTC+0.  This channel is logged. RFC How-To here:
02:41 Topic for #koha is now Next general meeting 10 November 2010 at 19:00 UTC+0.  This channel is logged. RFC How-To here:
02:41 Brooke ah spam! Baninate! ;)
02:41 Topic for #koha is now Next general meeting 10 November 2010 at 19:00 UTC+0.  This channel is logged. RFC How-To here:
02:41 chris_n and once more for good measure
02:41 chris_n :-)
02:41 chris heh
02:41 Brooke k
02:42 * chris_n is learning about char limits on irc topic lines
02:42 Brooke I'm officially punchy
02:42 Brooke left #koha
02:43 * chris_n heads off to sleep too
02:43 chris_n g'night
02:44 wizzyrea_ later chris_n
02:44 chris night
02:50 jcamins Cool, I didn't know we had RFC documentation.
03:00 * jcamins is going to get some sleep too
03:00 jcamins Good night, #koha
03:00 jcamins is now known as jcamins_a
03:01 brendan_l night jcamins_a
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04:00 hdl joined #koha
04:07 hdl hi
04:07 hdl anyone there ?
04:17 wasabi heya hdl
04:17 wasabi whatsup?
04:40 kmkale joined #koha
04:41 kmkale HI ALL
04:45 hdl hi wasabi nothing special.
04:45 hdl wasabi:  just good whatever. night evening, morning.
04:46 hdl hi kmkale
04:46 kmkale hi hdl
04:47 hdl I am quite tired by jet lag...
04:54 hdl will try to sleep a little more
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05:26 ronald can anyone point me to some tips on how i can move my koha 2.29 database from open suse to my new ubuntu server?
05:30 kmkale ronald: standar mysql dump on suse and restore on ubuntu?
05:40 cait joined #koha
05:41 cait gmcharlt++
05:41 cait good morning #koha
05:41 kmkale morning cait
05:41 cait hi kmkale
05:41 ronald left #koha
06:12 chris evening
06:13 cait hi chris
06:16 kmkale hi chris
06:24 cait hm stupid me.. testing my patch with German templates...
06:24 cait can't work
06:24 chris heh
06:25 cait rebasing my patch for bug 5003 :)
06:25 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5003 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, katrin.fischer, NEW, Can not search for organisation by name
06:26 cait and now it works :) yay!
06:36 chris yay!
06:38 cait :)
06:40 chris[…]/biblibre_reports
06:40 chris is ready for some secondary testing if you get bored :)
06:40 chris im doing some testing now
06:40 cait still have the notices thigns to test
06:43 munin New commit(s) kohagit: bug 5372: identify empty field in authority record correctly <[…]a5a32fd1ce354684a>
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07:17 cait bye #koha
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07:58 paul_p good morning everybody
08:02 chris hi paul_p
08:02 ivanc joined #koha
08:02 paul_p evening chris
08:11 kf joined #koha
08:11 kf hi #koha
08:13 paul_p kf, 'morning germany
08:13 francharb joined #koha
08:17 kf hi paul
08:25 magnus joined #koha
08:26 kf guten morgen magnus :)
08:26 magnus god morgen, kf :-)
08:28 paul_p hello magnus
08:29 magnus bon jour paul_p
08:29 saorge_ joined #koha
08:29 paul_p tiens un belge. 'morning saorge_ !
08:29 saorge left #koha
08:31 ivanc hi #koha
08:31 magnus hiya ivanc
08:42 ivanc hi magnus
08:57 munin New commit(s) kohagit: bug 5380: remove copy-and-paste from authorities/ <[…]198d3827625384e70>
09:02 hdl hi magnus
09:02 magnus hi hdl
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09:09 slef oops... didn't think anyone would still be using our redirect
09:09 slef bbl
09:14 hdl hi miguelxer
09:14 hdl how are you ?
09:14 hdl Hi slef
09:18 kf hi slef *waves*
09:26 Lee joined #koha
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09:38 slef hi hdl kf
09:38 * slef off to present koha and kohacon10
09:38 * slef rereads nengard's blog posts
09:38 kmkale left #koha
09:39 kf slef: my turn is on tuesday :)
09:41 kmkale joined #koha
09:43 slef kf: cool. any tips?
09:44 slef hrmph. now I'm back in the uk, the cell drops ssh connections when moving from 3g to 2g :-/
09:45 kf slef: no, will show photos of the road trip probably
09:45 kf koha is not so interesting for most of them ;)
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10:54 thd-away` is now known as thd
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12:19 thd Good morning nengard
12:19 kf hi thd :)
12:19 kf hi nengard :)
12:20 thd Hello kf
12:21 nengard morning kf and thd
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12:43 Topic for #koha is now Next general meeting today at 19:00 UTC+0.  This channel is logged.  RFC How-To here:
12:48 druthb joined #koha
12:52 magnus hi druthb
12:52 druthb hi, magnus!
12:54 kf hi druthb :)
12:54 druthb hi, kf! :)
12:57 jcamins_a is now known as jcamins
12:57 jcamins Good morning, #koha
13:01 druthb good morning, jcamins. :)
13:01 jcamins druthb: do I recall correctly that jwagner said you got Koha running on a netbook?
13:01 druthb That would be me, yes.
13:01 jcamins How did it work?
13:02 druthb I wouldn't call it running, precisely...walking, very slowly, perhaps.  The netbook in question is an Asus EEE 900A, with (at that time) half-a-gig of RAM, and a 4 GB SSHD.  Not a lot of elbow room.
13:03 druthb It was running a very early release of Easy Peasy, which is Ubuntu on an extreme diet.
13:04 jcamins Heh. I think I probably won't be trying it, then.
13:04 druthb The installation went normally for a Debian install-on-a-new-box, no trouble at all.
13:05 druthb A more up-to-date netbook would have no particular trouble, I don't imagine, running any of the Debian-derived OSes for netbooks.  I had to mount a 2 GB SD card to have enough disk space; those things are creepy-slow, which did not help.
13:12 * jcamins is thinking about how to test new Koha features during "downtime" on the train, etc.
13:13 jwagner left #koha
13:14 jcamins Apparently that's such a horrifying thought I scared away jwagner?
13:15 magnus jcamins: shouldn't be too hard as long as you don't need "online resources", like doing a z39.50 search?
13:15 druthb If you got a netbook with at least a gig, and more disk space, it should be fine, though it might be a little bit slow.  The ones I'm seeing around right now with 160GB drives and 2GB of RAM would be fine.
13:15 jcamins druthb: that's not a netbook! That's a laptop replacement!
13:15 druthb (And Easy Peasy's latest release is a pleasure to use, too, and easy to install.)
13:16 druthb There are plenty for about $250 bucks that have 1 GB RAM and the Atom N450 processor; that'd work, too.
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13:19 druthb my little Eee is dandy for checking email, surfing the web, Skype and such, but I wouldn't try to do any serious dev work on it.   I'd like to buy me a much better lappy, just haven't yet.
13:35 owen joined #koha
13:43 kf thx gmcharlt
13:44 kf gmcharlt++ :)
13:47 sekjal joined #koha
13:48 owen Hi sekjal, #koha, etc.
13:48 kf hi owen
13:48 sekjal morning, owen
13:48 sekjal and good morning, #koha
13:48 jcamins Hi owen, sekjal, and kf
13:48 * owen doesn't know who "etc" entails exactly
13:48 sekjal hi, jcamins!
13:49 sekjal is now known as etc
13:49 etc is now known as sekjal
13:49 kf hi sekjal :)
13:49 sekjal hi, kf!
13:51 sekjal crazy idea: a #koha internet radio station
13:52 jcamins sekjal: what would it play?
13:52 owen Along with an RM and a QA we'd need a DJ
13:53 sekjal good music... maybe some news every now and again
13:53 kf chris_n: around?
13:54 magnus sekjal: text2speach irc bot?
13:54 sekjal magnus:  Oh!  text2music!
13:54 kf reading the koha code?
13:54 sekjal convert each character or series of characters into a note
13:55 sekjal and represent each speaker with a different instrument, Peter and the Wolf-style
13:55 jcamins Nifty!
13:55 chris_n hi kf
13:56 kf hi chris_N
13:56 kf N = n
13:56 magnus hehe, i guess it shouldn't be too hard - but making it sound like anything other than noise? ;-)
13:56 bigbrovar joined #koha
13:56 kf about fines in notices: you tested with master and it didn't work, right?
13:56 bigbrovar left #koha
13:56 kf and your patch didn't work? so just test it again with master?
13:56 chris_n yes
13:56 sekjal magnus: we'd just have to learn to write musically
13:56 chris_n kf: correct
13:57 chris_n please
13:57 kf oki
13:57 kf I am working on it right now :) sorry that it took so long
13:57 * sekjal is only 4 sips into is first cup of coffee, and may be a little sleep-silly
14:04 Brooke joined #koha
14:04 Brooke yo
14:05 sekjal morning, Brooke
14:05 kf chris_n: testing it with my older version first, then updating to master and testing again
14:06 magnus yo Brooke
14:06 Brooke :)
14:07 druthb hi, Brooke. :)
14:09 * Brooke is caterwauling to showtunes
14:10 * druthb tries to picture Brooke "caterwauling", and fails the roll.
14:11 Brooke catastrophic: you're a flaming wreck now :P
14:43 * wizzyrea just read the
14:43 wizzyrea chris has a koha hacking playlist on grooveshark
14:43 sekjal wizzyrea:  nice!  this album is almost finished, so I'll try to tune in next
14:44 braedon|h wizzyrea: link?
14:44 wizzyrea I will have to find it, one sec
14:45 * braedon|h has spent the last 2 hours listening to random mashups, rather than sleeping
14:45 * owen is a mashup fan
14:46 wizzyrea[…]a+Hacking/8190140
14:46 wizzyrea does this work?
14:47 braedon|h i belive so, thanks
14:47 wizzyrea woot
14:47 Brooke hai
14:47 wizzyrea note: not MY koha hacking playlist, it's Chris's
14:47 braedon|h ooo, but it has minuit :(
14:48 braedon|h (my least favorite NZ band)
14:50 * Brooke should have nicked Ema's CD when she had the chance...
14:50 braedon|h my eternal dilemma with playlists and albums - skip a song i hate, or endure to preserve the experience in its entirety
14:50 Brooke pfft
14:50 Brooke one two skip a few
14:51 Brooke life's too short bro
14:51 wizzyrea sekjal, magnus, and chris_n: we kind of use bugzilla for what you're proposing using mediawiki for, and there's a page that lists everything listed as enhancement, and what the status is:
14:51 wizzyrea again, it hinges on people actually using it
14:51 Brooke true, but it would allow the bugzilla phoebic to avoid bugzilla
14:51 wizzyrea the prior contention was that the bugzilla phobic need to get over it.
14:52 * chris_n imagines a bugzilla plug-in for wikimedia
14:52 wizzyrea there's no reason you couldn't embed the rss feed for those searches into the wiki.
14:53 sekjal well, it would be a good exercise in Template Toolkit to write a new interface to Bugzilla that's more librarian-friendly for searching/adding/editing enhancement requests
14:54 magnus i think one question is: should the meat of an RFC be on bugzilla or in mediawiki?
14:54 wizzyrea I think it should be on the wiki, with an entry in bugzilla pointing to it
14:54 * chris_n thinks that is the question
14:54 wizzyrea why do just one?
14:54 chris_n but keeping the two in sync appears to be an issue
14:54 sekjal neither system is quite right, but the wiki is closer
14:54 sekjal I vote Wave-in-a-Box!
14:55 magnus and the wiki allows for collaborative editing...
14:55 braedon|h Brooke: a good playlist is so much more than the sum of its parts!
14:55 chris_n magnus: could such a setup as you are proposing be made to post to bugzilla automagically?
14:55 magnus chris_n:[…]:Bugzilla_Reports (if you didn't see it already)
14:55 kf ok, I have fines but no entries in message_queue... hmpf!
14:55 magnus chris_n: dunno
14:55 * chris_n passes kf more fudge
14:56 kf chris_n: when you said it didn't work for you - did it still create the messages or was that broken too?
14:56 kf thx :)
14:56 chris_n "Provide reports easy for non-techies to read."
14:57 chris_n kf: it generates messages, but includes $0.00 for all fines regardless of their true value
14:57 Brooke I think the bar is access. If you don't give a snot about your users, post solely to bugzilla. If you do, duplicate information in friendly formats, then funnel to a developer preferred locale.
14:58 chris_n well it sounds like the plugin magnus references would work to update the wiki from bugzilla
14:58 chris_n so if the RFC was entered as a bug it could then automatically show in the wiki
14:59 magnus chris_n: yep, but wouldn't create a page in the wiki
14:59 kf chris_n: Ithink it's my configuration... something is still missing
14:59 kf will figure it out
14:59 chris_n but then there are those who have acrophobia or some other bug-phobia which biases them against bugzilla
14:59 chris_n kf: tnx for the help
15:00 chris_n arachnophobia, rather
15:01 wizzyrea I would create a bug with the right status, and the exact same title as your RFC on the wiki, then link it to your fulltext on the wiki.
15:02 kf chris_n: I offered to help - now I have to live with it ;)
15:02 wizzyrea which is supposedly what we're supposed to be doing now.
15:02 * wizzyrea remembers this discussion from kohacon 2 years ago
15:03 kf chris_n: know I now what it wrong - my dates
15:04 * chris_n read magnus' suggestion as an improvement to the layout and clarity of the wiki part of an RFC post
15:04 chris_n not so much as a rework of the in-place procedure
15:04 Brooke *nod*
15:04 Brooke If I could do one thing to this community
15:04 wizzyrea definitely the template could be improved.
15:05 Brooke I'd change the default in people's heads from OR to AND
15:05 * kf is a bit scared of having Brooke messing with her head
15:05 * kf hides
15:05 chris_n Brooke: the problem is, low-level logic circuits are usually hard-wired
15:05 * Brooke can't take this good smelling box anymore.
15:05 magnus chris_n: well put - i'm not really in favor of moving thing from bugzilla or replicating information - just making the wiki "better"
15:06 Brooke I must know what's inside!!!1
15:06 braedon|h you can take our lives, but you can never take our boolean preference!
15:06 magnus s/thing/things/
15:08 wizzyrea I know for a fact that the RFC template was literally a 5 minute job.
15:08 wizzyrea so certainly it could be made better.
15:08 chris_n the real "challenge" here is getting folks to actually *use* whatever system... and for starters they have to take time to find and read the existing docs
15:08 Brooke bollocks. it was bowling pins, but the box smelt like chocolate and coffee.
15:08 Brooke it's getting better chris
15:09 Brooke at least I think it is
15:09 wizzyrea That is what I feel this page is for
15:09 wizzyrea linking to all of the existing documentation
15:09 wizzyrea please, if you want to add something, do.
15:11 Brooke is there an automated way of deduplicating like RFCs?
15:14 kf hmpf
15:14 kf what was the perl package on ubuntu to fix Can't locate Business/
15:14 kf ?
15:14 magnus libbusiness-isbn-perl ?
15:15 kf thx
15:15 thd Brooke: the default in my head has always been AND.
15:17 magnus anyway, i think a form would be friendlier then the plain ol' template for adding RFCs to the wiki - and the template already duplicates info that should be in bugzilla...
15:17 Brooke *nod*
15:18 chris_n magnus: i wonder if the form could be setup to post relevant info to an associated bug in BZ upon posting to the wiki?
15:18 chris_n that might add a level of abstraction for the fearful, yet ensure the process was still followed
15:19 magnus chris_n: that sounds like a lot of work - you'd need to keep the info synced too - better to keep it in one place, methinks
15:20 Brooke magnus- is there an automated way to sync the information?
15:20 * chris_n doesn't think we can get away from enh bugs for RFC's
15:20 magnus Brooke: not that I know of, but it should be possible to pull the info into the wiki
15:21 wizzyrea question: why does it matter, if all that is in the wiki RFC is the narrative of the feature?
15:21 * Brooke thinks that the user stands a better chance of seeing their enhancement through the more effort one puts into the process, but admits that "improper" procedure is better than no flow of information.
15:21 wizzyrea why not keep the nuts and bolts of it in bz
15:21 Brooke it matters from a usability standpoint
15:22 Brooke and arguably from a long term quality standpoint, as well
15:24 wizzyrea when I say nuts and bolts, I mean things that bz already asks for
15:25 wizzyrea expected date. version. All that needs to be in the bug is the link to the wiki
15:25 wizzyrea sponsored status
15:26 wizzyrea short description, link to fulltext.
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15:30 brendan morning
15:31 sekjal morning, brendan
15:31 cfouts joined #koha
15:31 brendan morning sekjal
15:31 sekjal and g'morning, cfouts
15:31 cfouts good day
15:32 chris_n heya cfouts
15:32 brendan heya cgouts
15:32 brendan heh
15:32 brendan cfouts that is
15:32 cfouts better than what some have called me ;)
15:34 Brooke which is prolly way better than what most call me ;)
15:34 kf we are talking a lot about how to make a rfc the right way - but still not talking about the existing ones
15:34 cfouts meeting today is at 11am Pacific, yes?
15:34 kf I think that's the problem where we started?
15:34 kf and I feel guilty too, because I have not commented on the rfc's - asked questions
15:35 kf perhaps we don't have so much discussion, because we don't have many questions, or because the proposed features seem ok to us
15:35 kf I am not sure
15:35 magnus kf: that's what i'm thinking too - tacit agreement...
15:36 sekjal kf: I know that I feel a little awkward commenting if I have nothing useful to add, and often the RFCs are pretty good as laid out
15:36 kf yep
15:36 kf that's my problem too
15:36 kf perhaps we just need a section: supporting as laid out...
15:36 kf where you can add a ++ ;)
15:37 chris_n well, even a simple "I concur" would be a step
15:37 Brooke yep check box for sounds cool to me
15:37 sekjal this is another usecase for a community voting system
15:37 kf don't make it too complicated
15:37 chris_n need I mention that BZ has a voting system
15:37 kf but I have to go and get some rest now before the meeting - d... cold
15:37 kf what is BZ?
15:37 chris_n bugzilla
15:38 chris_n sorry
15:38 Brooke thought it was disabled
15:38 * magnus gotta make dinner - see y'all for the meeting!
15:38 magnus is now known as magnus_a
15:45 nengard joined #koha
15:47 * Brooke salutes nengard with respect.
15:50 nengard howdy Brooke and all #koha
15:50 chris_n Brooke: nope
15:50 chris_n it works afaik
15:56 druthb left #koha
15:56 hdl joined #koha
15:57 Brooke bonjour, flying frenchman!
15:58 kf hi hdl
15:58 kf and time to leave - goodbye all
15:58 alex_a left #koha
15:59 Brooke cheers cait
16:04 kf left #koha
16:10 owen is now known as owen-away
16:11 sekjal wizzyrea: around?
16:11 wizzyrea yep
16:12 wizzyrea sup?
16:12 wizzyrea i closed all my tabs. I feel a bit naked.
16:12 sekjal the bywater demo is now running 3.2; website still says
16:13 wizzyrea k I'll fix i
16:13 wizzyrea t
16:13 sekjal thanks!
16:13 sekjal I can get you an exact version number if that'd be helpful
16:13 wizzyrea no, I like 3.2
16:13 wizzyrea :)
16:13 sekjal k
16:13 Brooke yeah, some ratbag pestered Bywater to upgrade, and they did in like 10 seconds.
16:13 dafydd joined #koha
16:14 sekjal I'm thinking of switching the demo over to run off the debian packages
16:14 Brooke Noswaith dda
16:14 wizzyrea done
16:14 wizzyrea up 2 u really
16:14 sekjal thanks, wizzyrea!
16:15 sekjal the primary draw is that the debian packages make restoring much easier
16:15 sekjal I've got a bit of a hack in place right now
16:15 wizzyrea might take a minute to show for you since you're not logged in (it's cached)
16:15 sekjal k
16:16 hdl hi Brooke and all
16:16 sekjal hi, hdl
16:23 chris_n hey hdl
16:28 chris_n hdl: if we used submodules, then we would basically be maintaining separate repos for each submodule?
16:29 chris_n or does git take care of all of that in a transparent fashion?
16:38 ivanc left #koha
16:38 Brooke left #koha
16:38 Brooke joined #koha
16:39 slef sekjal: I'm going to do the same with our demo soon.
16:40 wizzyrea slef: please add it to the wiki at[…]ha_Demo_Databases so I can pull it into the website
16:40 stephane_ left #koha
16:42 slef wizzyrea: ok
16:42 wizzyrea ty kindly
16:42 sekjal slef: right on!
16:43 sekjal does anyone know of a UNIMARC demo out there?  I'm only seeing MARC21 on the wiki
16:43 slef if it works, I'll start using them on client libs next week or two
16:44 slef sekjal: biblibre?
16:44 wizzyrea I don't see a demo on their site anywhere
16:45 sekjal slef: that would be my first thought, yes, but it's not on the wiki page
16:45 slef sure they uised to have one... not on ?
16:45 slef bah, I'm going to be in a notspot for 5mins during today's meeting
16:46 wizzyrea there's one listed there ya
16:46 slef unavoidable :-/
16:46 wizzyrea
16:46 slef anyone tell if it's unimarc?
16:47 jcamins Oh, right, meeting in an hour?
16:47 wizzyrea but I will add it — yup, unimarc
16:47 sekjal very misleading news headling in the Koha Planet section of
16:47 slef should we add a "request upgrade" page to "Tools"?
16:47 slef jcamins: 2 I think
16:48 slef sekjal: wassat? I have slow web, on trains
16:48 sekjal PTFS Code Integrated Into Mainline Koha
16:48 slef oof
16:49 sekjal the article is about the wiki page for tracking the integration efforts of Harley into Koha
16:49 slef I got asked about that today. Whether all harley code would be in 3.4. I fudged as I'm not sure.
16:50 sekjal no one knows for certain (expect perhaps chris), but hopefully we can get all the gems integrated by April 22
16:51 slef this train sounds ill, like it can't get enough power to accelerate
16:52 wizzyrea sekjal: biblibre's demo of 3.0.5 is now on the list
16:52 sekjal wizzyrea:  great!
16:52 slef sekjal: I tried to print one of your interrelation graphs. decided against showing it to users because it's too scary.
16:52 sekjal slef: next one should be smaller
16:53 sekjal going to remove all the nodes that aren't linked to, or don't link out
16:53 cait joined #koha
16:53 cait hi #koha
16:53 sekjal hi, cait!
16:53 slef all change! bbi 20
16:53 Brooke howdy
16:53 cait hi sekjal :)
17:00 jwagner meeting is in not quite two hours from now, yes?
17:01 sekjal I have it as 3pm Eastern... but I'm willing to accept my clock got messed up with all the travel and daylight savings
17:01 Brooke[…]_time_in_UTC.aspx
17:01 jwagner The converter on the wiki page said 2:00 ET
17:01 sekjal I stand corrected
17:01 thd jamins: I think that the general Koha IRC meeting is in an hour and 45 minutes.
17:02 jwagner Good -- I have another meeting before then, wanted to make sure I wasn't doubled up.
17:02 jwagner is now known as jwag_mtg
17:03 Brooke poor kiwis
17:03 Brooke poked from sound sleep for IRCery
17:03 thd jcamins: see above [spelt correctly this time]
17:04 Johnindy_ left #koha
17:07 hdl chris_n: if we used submodules, then we would basically be maintaining separate repos for each submodule? : yes.
17:08 hdl chris_n: Does git take care of all that in a transparent fashion ?
17:08 hdl Provided that you use git submodule synhc or update... well... quite.
17:08 hdl sekjal: koha-fr demo
17:08 hdl but quite old
17:09 hdl slef: is unimarc
17:10 slef hdl: ta. Sekjal wanted one.
17:10 hdl sorry was back reading
17:26 * jcamins curses Ariel
17:27 jcamins Why does every document on Ariel always have to be resized to 8.5"x11"? (I know it's not a Koha question, but there's actually a chance that someone here might know)
17:29 jcamins Does Gitorious allow you to set up repositories so that multiple people can push to the individual repository?
17:29 Brooke so it can print on standard paper?
17:29 hdl left #koha
17:30 jcamins Brooke: but documents from ILLiad print properly, and without the ridiculous amount of whitespace around the edges that make printing 2-up impossible.
17:31 Brooke fine then my hunch that it's just to annoy you was correct :P
17:31 jcamins Heh. I guess so.
17:32 Brooke OMG mah ivory hearts
17:32 Brooke I was looking all over for those
17:32 wizzyrea ?
17:32 Brooke clearly the solution was to look for mah needlenose nylon plyers
17:33 slef jcamins; I think both chris and I push to the koha repo there.
17:33 chris yep
17:33 chris btw, 8am is right when im gonna be on the bus
17:34 chris so while i will be at the meeting on irc on my phone
17:34 chris it might be a bit hard to chair it
17:34 jcamins slef: Cool, thanks.
17:34 chris any volunteers?
17:34 slef chris on a bus. Me on a train. Anyone going for other transport?
17:34 chris heh
17:35 sekjal jcamins:  don't know about Gitorious, but I'm pretty sure Gitolite does (and that's why uses)
17:35 slef jcamins?
17:36 wizzyrea gitolite… best name ever.
17:36 slef wizzyrea!
17:36 wizzyrea slef!
17:37 slef chair?
17:37 * wizzyrea wonders if she can channel gmcharlt
17:37 wizzyrea let me go look at the agenda
17:37 wizzyrea sec
17:39 slef ta
17:39 slef bbi60
17:40 wizzyrea yea, sure I'll do my best
17:40 wizzyrea you may not ask again tho >.>
17:43 cait you will have to very strict with us
17:43 cait a lot of items on the agenda
17:44 Johnindy joined #koha
17:45 wizzyrea true
17:45 wizzyrea afk, but back in plenty of time for the meeting
17:47 sekjal is now known as sekjal_a
17:48 chris ok, gotta go feed kids, do rubbbish, etc before my bus
17:50 collum joined #koha
17:57 gmcharlt meeting is in 45 minutes, right?
17:57 gmcharlt if so, I'll be available to chair
17:57 Brooke hail to the chief
17:57 cait gmcharlt: thank you for signing-off on my patch
17:57 wizzyrea woot galen
17:58 cait :)
18:01 nengard 45 min? really? I thought it was later - cool I can be there for some of it
18:06 gmcharlt says that it's currently 18:22 UTC+0
18:06 gmcharlt so I think it is at 14:00 EST
18:06 nengard thanks
18:06 gmcharlt unless the switch from daylight savings has thrown me off
18:06 nengard stupid saylight savings time
18:06 nengard or daylight
18:09 wizzyrea cait: did you see those patches from Amit (and/or jcamins)
18:10 cait about analytics? from Amit then
18:10 wizzyrea ya
18:10 cait ya
18:10 cait had no time looking at them :( and not sure what will happen with my work on the topic
18:10 cait it's on a public repo now, but I should have commented on the rfc earlier
18:11 Colin joined #koha
18:11 wizzyrea ah I was wondering if you had looked at them yet, I know you and jcamins are both interested in that
18:11 jcamins They address two different issues.
18:11 wizzyrea k
18:12 jcamins Well, some of the same issues.
18:12 jcamins But I think cait's changes will still be needed.
18:12 jcamins Looking at it more is on my to-do list.
18:12 cait yeah on mine two
18:12 cait too
18:12 wizzyrea cool, that's really the only reason I brought it up
18:12 cait it's a time problem :(
18:12 jcamins This is one of the difficulties of having differing priorities at home and at the ANS.
18:13 francharb left #koha
18:13 cait and I have another presentation next week to prepare for
18:13 cait it's been all a bit crazy in the last months
18:14 cait hope it will get better... but probably not
18:14 chris i can help you guys to merge, yours plus amits, if you think they are both needed thats certainly possible
18:15 * Brooke cheers Chris
18:16 wizzyrea infinite_time++
18:16 chris chris_phone_being_notcharged--
18:16 wizzyrea oof
18:16 Brooke teh ohnoes
18:16 chris hopefully it gets enough charge before the bus
18:16 chris but if i go silent thats why
18:18 chris cait and anyone else interested
18:18 chris[…]nalytical_records
18:18 cait yep, saw the branch
18:19 chris i will push the new patch that just came through today to there as well
18:19 cait do you think it would help to push my work to a branch as well?
18:19 chris yes please
18:19 chris if you can give me a branch to pull from
18:19 cait ok, pull request?
18:19 gmcharlt chris: what would it take to get hudsonbot running again?
18:19 chris yup
18:19 cait my latest work is up on the repo
18:19 chris cool
18:20 cait you helped me updating it during kohacon :)
18:20 chris i can merge it in
18:20 cait ah, but perhaps I should rebase first?
18:20 chris wouldnt hurt
18:20 cait ok
18:20 cait will try to do that today or tomorrow morning
18:20 chris gmcharlt: me figuring out why it stopped
18:21 chris ill make a branch with yours and osslabs work merged (and 2 sep branches)
18:21 chris then ppl can test them both, or just one or the other
18:21 cait cool :)
18:21 chris ideally the both one will work, and we can merge that into master
18:21 cait I have some sample records to test with too
18:21 chris excellent
18:21 cait where can we store them?
18:21 chris gmcharlt: so time :)
18:22 chris cait: the wiki?
18:22 cait ok
18:22 cait I will have to clean them a little bit, I think 2 authorities crept in
18:22 anitsirk joined #koha
18:22 cait hi kristina
18:22 cait *waves*
18:22 wizzyrea hey kristina
18:23 miguelxer joined #koha
18:23 anitsirk hello cait and wizzyrea
18:23 anitsirk how are you?
18:23 wizzyrea good :)
18:23 wizzyrea and you?
18:23 anitsirk as well. it's been a very sunny and warm week again in wgtn
18:24 wizzyrea woohoo! (dang I miss wgtn)
18:24 owen-away is now known as owen
18:25 Lee joined #koha
18:25 anitsirk we miss you here, too.
18:27 nengard Lee!! :)
18:27 wizzyrea hey lee :)
18:27 Lee Nicole!
18:27 nengard :)
18:27 Lee I have pics for you
18:27 cait hi lee :)
18:27 Lee you too Liz
18:27 nengard pics?? :)
18:27 nengard ooo
18:27 Lee yup
18:28 * cait wants pics too
18:28 Lee Just got to picasa will send links to you
18:28 nengard hehe
18:28 nengard picassa? I found you on flickr? why not flickr?
18:28 cait do you have the video of pual and hdl doing the haka?
18:28 hudsonbot joined #koha
18:28 Lee BTW Nic talked with Stef and we think Butte in March is a great idea
18:28 nengard k
18:29 nengard and i talked to doc and he put me on new drugs - so no surgery between now and january at the very least
18:29 nengard maybe longer if the drugs work
18:29 Lee Sooo if you have he week free  I will let you know the rest after board meeting next wed.
18:29 hudsonbot left #koha
18:29 indradg joined #koha
18:29 Lee I hope the drugs works...(selfish motives)
18:29 nengard i have you pencilled in - so go ahead and tell the board
18:30 nengard i'll schedule surgery around it if drugs don't work :)
18:30 Lee ex-cell-ent!
18:30 hudsonbot joined #koha
18:30 wizzyrea hi hudson!
18:30 Lee you can bring your book...
18:31 nengard only if I ever get it
18:31 Barrc joined #koha
18:31 magnus_a is now known as magnus
18:31 anitsirk hi magnus
18:31 Lee liz the pic i took at Jo's library of you is cute... it will be in the albums for Flickr...okay?
18:32 jwag_mtg is now known as jwagner
18:32 chris !hudson status
18:32 hudsonbot status of all projects:
18:32 hudsonbot Koha_3.0.x: last build: 2 (10 days ago): FAILURE:[…]job/Koha_3.0.x/2/
18:32 hudsonbot Koha_3.2.x: last build: 25 (3 hr 48 min ago): SUCCESS:[…]ob/Koha_3.2.x/25/
18:32 hudsonbot Koha_Master: last build: 135 (9 hr 32 min ago): SUCCESS:[…]/Koha_Master/135/
18:32 chris there we go
18:32 anitsirk hi chris and jwagner
18:32 anitsirk chris: are you upstairs?
18:32 chris no
18:32 chris im about to catch my bus
18:32 gmcharlt chris++
18:33 chris and hopefully irc from there if the phone doesnt cut out
18:33 chris hopefully can get past the 3.4 roadmap, and then ill be at work for the rest :)
18:33 Barrc anyone have a quick easy way to remove itemless bibs?
18:34 anitsirk chris: hehe. penny was on the train during the mahara irc meeting last night - went off and continued typing on her laptop while walking.
18:34 indradg hi all
18:36 nengard gonna grab me some soup for lunch and then back here for the meeting
18:36 dpk joined #koha
18:36 Lee making a cup of 'white tea" LOL
18:37 Barrc left #koha
18:38 Lee hey Cait ;-)
18:38 anitsirk sorry for being slow in putting videos online. i just started on walter's again as it took ages. i upload them in order. rosalie and lee are online (lee was easy as nengard had already uploaded lee's video).
18:38 Brooke aye
18:38 Brooke I've linked em to the wiki
18:38 BobB joined #koha
18:39 robin-hom joined #koha
18:39 robin-hom is now known as robinHome
18:39 BobB Good morning good people.
18:39 Lee thanks
18:39 Brooke kia ora
18:39 slef brr
18:40 anitsirk hi bob and robin
18:40 robinHome hi hi
18:40 slef @wunder bristol uk
18:40 munin slef: Error: No such location could be found.
18:40 slef @wunder bristol
18:40 munin slef: Error: No such location could be found.
18:40 Lee MJ hey!
18:40 dpk
18:40 clrh joined #koha
18:40 slef @wunder bristol, united kingdom
18:40 munin slef: Error: No such location could be found.
18:40 nengard WOO HOO!! My book has finally arrived!! It flew through JFL no wonder it took so long :)
18:41 slef bah
18:41 BobB @wunder Sydney
18:41 munin BobB: Error: No such location could be found.
18:41 magnus hi anitsirk!
18:41 slef @wunder bristol, bristol
18:41 munin slef: Error: No such location could be found.
18:41 irma joined #koha
18:41 BobB Oh well.  Day break in the harbour city
18:41 gmcharlt @wunder bristol, united kingdom
18:41 munin gmcharlt: Error: No such location could be found.
18:41 slef @wunder bristol airport
18:41 munin slef: The current temperature in Bristol Airport, United Kingdom is 2.0�C (6:50 PM GMT on November 10, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: -2.0�C. Windchill: 0.0�C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Steady).
18:41 cait @wunder Konstanz
18:41 anitsirk sunny in wellington (again)
18:41 munin cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 7.6�C (7:58 PM CET on November 10, 2010). Conditions: Light Drizzle. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 6.0�C. Windchill: 8.0�C. Pressure: 29.55 in 1000.6 hPa (Steady).
18:41 * Brooke comforts Bob
18:41 gmcharlt @wunder bristol, england
18:41 munin gmcharlt: Error: No such location could be found.
18:41 brendan @wunder 93117
18:42 irma g'day all
18:42 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 17.9�C (10:58 AM PST on November 10, 2010). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 61%. Dew Point: 10.0�C. Pressure: 29.94 in 1013.8 hPa (Steady). Wind Advisory in effect from 3 PM this afternoon to 3 am PST Thursday...
18:42 cait hi irma
18:42 anitsirk good morning irma
18:42 Lee hey Bob B I loved my 3 days in Sydney
18:42 indradg @wunder kolkata
18:42 munin indradg: The current temperature in Kolkata, India is 23.0�C (12:20 AM IST on November 11, 2010). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 21.0�C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Steady).
18:42 slef it doesn't know the city
18:42 slef hey Lee
18:42 jwagner_ joined #koha
18:42 Lee hi Irma
18:42 BobB 23 C is cool in kolkata
18:43 magnus @wunder bodo, norway
18:43 munin magnus: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is -2.0�C (7:50 PM CET on November 10, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 51%. Dew Point: -11.0�C. Windchill: -8.0�C. Pressure: 29.47 in 998 hPa (Falling).
18:43 clrh Hello everybody
18:43 gmcharlt it is now 19:00 UTC+0
18:43 indradg BobB, you are right
18:43 thd slef: are you here?
18:43 gmcharlt I am calling the meeting to order
18:43 slef eta on this train keeps slipping
18:43 pauln joined #koha
18:43 gmcharlt the page for the meeting is[…]_10_November_2010
18:44 gmcharlt before we start with the agenda proper, let's take a couple minutes for introductions
18:44 Lee Weather for Butte, MT  - 27°F | °C Current: Cloudy Wind: N at 0 mph Humidity: 62%
18:44 * gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, Equinox
18:44 * owen = Owen Leonard, Nelsonville Public Library
18:44 thd gmcharlt: check my update yesterday to the agenda
18:44 wizzyrea < Liz Rea, Northeast Kansas Library System
18:44 jwagner_ Jane Wagner, Liblime/PTFS
18:44 brendan brendan = Brendan Gallagher ByWater Solutions
18:44 * sekjal_a : Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions
18:44 * jcamins = Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services
18:44 * nengard Nicole C. Engard, ByWater Solutions / Documentation Manager
18:44 sekjal_a is now known as sekjal
18:44 irma Irma from CALYX Sydney
18:44 BobB Bob Birchall, Calyx
18:44 cfouts Clay Fouts, PTFS
18:44 * chris is chris cormack, catalyst, rm 3.4
18:44 magnus Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway
18:44 * cait = Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
18:44 Colin Colin Campbell PTFS Europe Ltd
18:44 anitsirk = Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT
18:44 Lee Lee Phillips-Butte Public library Montana
18:44 * slef = MJ Ray
18:44 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
18:45 pauln Paul Nielsen, Hauraki District Libraries
18:45 robinHome <-- Robin Sheat, Catalyst IT
18:45 * clrh Claire Hernandez I'mnew at Biblibre, France
18:45 indradg indradg = Indranil Das Gupta, L2C2 Technologies, India
18:45 * slef = MJ Ray,
18:45 hdl joined #koha
18:45 * dpk Doug Kingston, English Folk Dance and Song Society, London, UK <>
18:45 * Elwell = Andrew Elwell, Lurker :-)
18:46 gmcharlt ok, thanks - newcomers feel free to introduce yourselves as you enter
18:46 * hdl Henri-Damien LAURENT, BibLibre release Maitainer 3.0
18:46 chris Crap at 5% already
18:46 gmcharlt the first agenda item is Update on Roadmap to 3.2
18:47 gmcharlt chris_n: as the 3.2 release maintainer, it's all yours
18:47 francharb joined #koha
18:47 LBA joined #koha
18:47 paul_p joined #koha
18:47 * owen didn't see chris_n check in
18:47 Brooke jransom says sorry she's late via twitter
18:48 gmcharlt chris_n: about?
18:48 chris @seen chris_n
18:48 munin chris: chris_n was last seen in #koha 2 hours, 19 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: <chris_n> or does git take care of all of that in a transparent fashion?
18:48 davi joined #koha
18:48 fredericd Frédéric Demians, Tamil
18:48 gmcharlt if not, I'll relay one thing that chris_n has stated, which is that he intends to release 3.2.1 on 22 November 2010
18:48 cait he told me he was going to lunch earlier
18:48 chris Yay
18:48 gmcharlt we can go back to that agenda item if need be
18:48 cait perhaps he is not back yet
18:49 gmcharlt so on to the next, which is Update on 3.0
18:49 gmcharlt hdl: the floor is yours
18:49 hdl still to be released.
18:49 paul_p Paul Poulain, BibLibre, good morning|evening|afternoon|night|whatever everybody !
18:49 LBA Lori Ayre, Galecia Group.
18:49 Lee :-) Paul
18:49 gmcharlt hdl: do you have an ETA?
18:49 hdl i realised that some new features BibLibre wrote was mistakenly introduced in 3.0.x repository
18:50 hdl I have to remove them.
18:50 hdl next week
18:50 gmcharlt hdl: thanks for the update
18:50 marlened joined #koha
18:50 gmcharlt any questions regarding 3.0.x/3.0.7 ?
18:50 gmcharlt going once...
18:50 wizzyrea Thanks to HDL for his continued good work on 3.0.x
18:51 gmcharlt indeed
18:51 gmcharlt going twice ... on to the next agenda item
18:51 gmcharlt Update on 3.4, which has two sub-items
18:51 gmcharlt moving first to the general update
18:51 gmcharlt chris: floor is yours
18:51 chris Ok id paste but it takes too long to find it on the phone
18:52 chris Look for roadmap to 3.4 on the wiki
18:52 chris Thems the rules
18:52 gmcharlt[…]ki/Roadmap_to_3.4
18:52 nengard[…]ki/Roadmap_to_3.4
18:52 nengard oops
18:52 chris Follow them and we might hit 6 months
18:52 chris :)
18:52 slef how can we track status of rfcs?
18:53 gmcharlt I'll summarize some points from that release plan since chris doesn't have easy copy-and-paste
18:53 chris I will update any rfcs I have merged code for
18:53 chris The rest is up to you guys to sort out
18:53 gmcharlt 1. all patches should have at least one signoff before it hits RM (except for trival patches); preferably two, one from QA manager and one from someones
18:53 gmcharlt 2. a patches should refer to a bug number
18:54 gmcharlt 3. branches will be merged into master after testing
18:54 nengard would it be helpful if people who put up RFCs include a bug/enhancement for it so that that can be the number associated with them both (rfc and patch) ?
18:54 wizzyrea and he's also logging his work at
18:54 gmcharlt 4. chris will make exceptions if he feels are needed
18:54 chris Yes
18:54 tajoli joined #koha
18:54 slef ok, so that leaves in-discussion, needs work, help, not for 3.4 and what else?
18:54 paul_p slef: good question.
18:54 hdl nengard: maybe cross reference could be good
18:54 chris Rule 2 makes tracking rfc possible
18:55 nengard awesome
18:55 chris And rule 2 I won't make many exceptions for
18:55 thd slef: you can subscribe an email address to specific pages in the wiki and specific bugs in bugzilla for updates.
18:55 nengard so - if you write and rfc report a bug/enhancement and put a link to that on your rfc for the rest of us to help with tracking :)
18:55 LBA nengard: ++
18:55 gmcharlt nengard: yes, RFCs should have a corresopnding bug (or bugs, a big RFC could consist of several discrete features)
18:55 wizzyrea goes both ways: put a link in your bug to your RFC as well
18:55 paul_p chris, foundations like lucene have a roadmap displaying "will be" "maybe", "could be" in the next release on the roadmap. Do you think it could be a good thing ?
18:55 slef thd: can you sub to/watch a category?
18:55 chris Every patch its bug and every bug its patch
18:56 paul_p (or is it eclipse foundation ?)
18:56 chris Or else !
18:56 cait Ilove ranganathan
18:56 hdl nengard: namely including link to wiki RFC in bug file description... and link to bug in RFC.
18:56 nengard :)
18:56 thd slef: I am not certain about categories.
18:56 LBA thank you gmcharlt!  one of my q's answered: multple bug numbers per RFC
18:56 Brooke save the time of the developers
18:56 Brooke the code is a living organism
18:56 cait Brooke++
18:56 chris For my rule its all maybe
18:57 chris Until I see the code
18:57 nengard chris++
18:57 LBA librarian humor :-D
18:57 chris Patch early patch often
18:57 cait chris++
18:57 chris I'm not saying yes to anything based on an rfc
18:57 chris I might say no tho
18:57 chris :)
18:57 hdl chris : multiple patch can refer to one bug
18:57 chris But the proof is in the pudding
18:58 gmcharlt hdl: that's not a problem
18:58 hdl should all of them have the same bug attached ?
18:58 paul_p (the proof is in the pudding ???)
18:58 hdl Some patch will fix other bugs.
18:58 chris hdl: yes
18:58 nengard paul_p it means that if it's good code he'll put it in
18:58 chris List them all
18:58 nengard once he sees the proof that it's good stuff
18:58 hdl So there should be branch for the bug.
18:58 thd paul_p: There must be an equivalent expression in French.
18:59 hdl maybe a link to the branch exposed could help....
18:59 LBA Chris, might you say yes to the concept at RFC stage?
18:59 paul_p (gotcha, thx)
18:59 gmcharlt nengard: and proof is easier to come by if we collectively commit to reviewing, testing, and signoff on each other's patches
18:59 chris I make branches for every bug yes
18:59 slef thd: something to do with souffles IIRC
18:59 chris LBA: no
18:59 cait I think the more information the better
18:59 hdl Should we add that as a remark ?
18:59 nengard gmcharlt++
18:59 chris I might say not for this release
18:59 chris But ill never promise something for a release
18:59 hdl or use a naming convetion ?
19:00 chris From an rfc
19:00 thd promises, promises :)
19:00 paul_p chris: jumping in my ml-thread question: how will you decide if a feature is something good or not for Koha ? (independantly from being well coded)
19:00 chris It all is in the maybe stage
19:00 wizzyrea [bug xxxx, xxxx] [Signed Off] Commit message
19:00 wizzyrea signed off where appropriate
19:00 paul_p I know I'm annoying you when asking this question, but it's still unclear to me!
19:00 wizzyrea of course
19:00 LBA what's the best I can hope for (as a client contracting with a developer) in terms of what kind of responses my developer might get to his or her RFP?
19:00 chris Ill ask people
19:01 cait no regression
19:01 chris Like I'm doing with analytical stuff
19:01 paul_p chris, you'll ask ppl before of after it's submitted ?
19:01 slef LBA: yippee, please do?
19:01 paul_p if after => pain for the guy who did the job
19:01 chris Not my worry
19:02 paul_p if before => that's exactly what I want to "implement" in our workflow !
19:02 chris I'm rm not god
19:02 paul_p chris : ???
19:02 thd Like committing, ask early and ask often
19:02 cait before will not ensure good code
19:02 paul_p ok, got it
19:02 chris Others should comment on it before it exists
19:02 slef so no ageed-in-principle for 3.4?
19:02 chris I care once it exists
19:03 chris I will certainly say things sound like a good idea
19:03 jwagner_ chris, I have a problem with that workflow -- if we have customers who have contracted for that work, we have to do it and submit it.
19:03 paul_p I still feel something is missing in our workflow...
19:03 * wasabi waves
19:03 nengard as a community we can agree in principle with the idea or suggest tweaks/changes - but i see what chris is saying - he job is to evaluate coda
19:03 jwagner_ They would like some assurance that it will be included in a future release.
19:03 wasabi morning
19:03 nengard and to make sure features aren't scrapped
19:03 nengard with the new code
19:03 nengard (and other stuff i'm sure)
19:03 Brooke (harmony is hard to dictate)
19:04 chris nengard yes
19:04 chris jwagner: they won't ever get that from me
19:04 slef yay, a train!
19:04 chris Until I see the code
19:04 paul_p chris, that's 2 differents things !
19:04 chris What if it has sql injections?
19:04 hdl but even then... you could say no
19:05 slef it's up to the devs to make it good enough for inclusion
19:05 jwagner_ chris, two different problems -- the concept and the actual code
19:05 wizzyrea fix and resubmit?
19:05 paul_p checking if it's technically OK => we all agree.
19:05 jwagner_ The concept could be accepted, but the code might need work.
19:05 chris Yes
19:05 nengard i don't think that the RM should get the only say in what concept is accepted
19:05 thd paul_p: What is two different things?
19:05 nengard that's a community decision
19:05 LBA jwagner++
19:05 chris I don't accept concepts I accept code
19:06 nengard chris++
19:06 thd :)
19:06 jransom joined #koha
19:06 LBA that's what I'm trying to understand...where do concepts get accepted?
19:06 slef build consensus around the rfc
19:06 hdl how Who ?
19:06 hdl When ?
19:06 nengard you put up the rfc, the community comments and if the comments are positive the concept is accepted - but if you code it like crap chris gets to throw it out
19:06 paul_p slef, OK. So how do we build consensus ?
19:06 chris Ok way off topic
19:06 magnus nengard++
19:06 LBA what if the community doesn't comment?
19:06 slef paul_p: ask me after.
19:07 chris So is there anything more about 3.4?
19:07 slef LBA: then ask again.
19:07 brendan no comments should = go with it - let's see what it looks like
19:07 nengard slef++
19:07 paul_p chris: not off topic !
19:07 jwagner_ The customers sponsoring the work are defining the specifications and ultimately the direction of the application (not just our customers, all customers of all vendors).
19:07 paul_p what about our RFC for moving to solR for example ?
19:07 hdl jwagner_++
19:07 chris This is its own agenda iten
19:07 chris For later
19:07 slef I've never had no comment to an RFC, as far as I can recall.
19:08 jwagner_ chris, my comment is for later, or the SOLR one?
19:08 tajoli That is difficult to say Yes/No on Solr
19:08 slef chris: are you ok passing fixed-in-3.4 bugs to 3.2?
19:08 cait brendan++
19:08 chris Yes
19:08 tajoli I have users that can't use it
19:08 gmcharlt there are items later in the agenda that can cover some of this ground
19:08 slef tajoli++
19:08 gmcharlt moving onwards
19:08 paul_p brendan, that's impossible to "let's see" for large devs !
19:08 gmcharlt sub-item: BibLibre branches submitted to QA (roadmap & what's still expected from BibLibre. feedback from librarians)
19:08 LBA cait and brendan....I don't think that's how it works in practice
19:09 jwagner_ Sorry, not clear on the responses.  What about SOLR?
19:09 gmcharlt chris: hdl: paul_p: anything specific to say about that?
19:09 slef LBA: oh. What's you most recent experience?
19:09 tajoli But Zebra with ICU has many problems
19:09 sekjal It would certainly make developers lives easier if there was some kind of criteria we could code towards that would make our developments strong candidates for inclusion
19:09 hdl much work has been done
19:10 hdl for rebasing all the branches.
19:10 chris Send code early and oftwn
19:10 hdl our code was always public
19:10 LBA slef, basing this belief on what others have said on the list.
19:10 nengard this is all under the next agenda item - we're still on roadmap to 3.4
19:10 chris And gmcharlt has done testing on the reports
19:10 chris_n back; sorry, got called away
19:10 hdl and thanks for that
19:10 hdl gmcharlt++
19:10 chris Ok this doesn't work on the phone
19:11 chris I can't type fast enough
19:11 chris Bbl
19:11 slef LBA: I'll cover that later.
19:11 hdl And rebasing is quite dangerous.
19:11 paul_p should we suspend the meeting until chris is fully with us ?
19:11 slef chris: I should have given you lessons!
19:11 hdl So it could be quite a heavy task to rebase on a day to base those branches.
19:11 gmcharlt paul_p: we should - this is a discussion that cannot properly take place without chris
19:11 hdl (due to the hard work we are all contributing on 3.2)
19:12 paul_p gmcharlt, yep, that's my opinion too
19:12 nengard should we go back to chris_n for his update on 3.2?
19:12 gmcharlt yes
19:12 gmcharlt chris_n: please go ahead (I already mentioned the Nov 22nd date for 3.2.1)
19:12 trea joined #koha
19:12 chris_n ok, I'm pushing patches as fast as they show up in HEAD at present
19:13 sekjal chris_n++ (for that)
19:13 chris_n that's the procedure I plan to follow for the foreseeable future
19:13 cait chris_n++
19:13 gmcharlt cool
19:13 paul_p about this question: i think cherry picking patches from master to stable is one of the pains hdl had with 3.0 RMaint.
19:13 hdl chris_n what is your plan when HEAD will diverge from 3.2 ?
19:13 chris_n I plan to release ever 30 days unless there are no patches to push
19:13 paul_p because there are too much patches on master, and new features & all that stuff
19:13 chris_n so Nov 22, Dec 22, etc
19:14 paul_p so I think it would be better to have patches on stable cherry picked to master
19:14 chris_n hdl: I plan to cross that bridge when I come to it :)
19:14 * nengard apologizes but she has to go teach a webinar now - will read the logs later
19:14 gmcharlt paul_p: 3.2.x does not need to be all things to all users; with chris' time-based release for 3.4, focuses on bugfixes for 3.2.x is fine
19:14 paul_p gmcharlt, ???
19:14 slef chris_n++
19:14 magnus left #koha
19:15 chris_n if something turns up uniquely 3.2.x, we will deal with that
19:15 hdl Don't you want to think about a plan beforehand ?
19:15 magnus joined #koha
19:15 gmcharlt paul_p: another way of stating - if a particular patch is too difficult to cherry-pick into 3.2.x, it is likely too much of a new feature to stick into 3.2.x with 3.4 coming in spring 2011
19:15 jwagner_ hdl++
19:15 nengard left #koha
19:15 cait gmcharlt++
19:16 chris_n hdl: it seems rather clear that when that happens, we will push the patch to a testing branch and then merge it to the 3.2.x branch
19:16 slef gmcharlt++
19:16 thd gmcharlt++
19:16 paul_p gmcharlt, how I see it : when there will be X00 patches in master, that will be a BIG deal for chris_n to deal with them. hdl had this problem for 3.0.x
19:17 paul_p do you (all) know if project like Debian on linux does like this ? I thought they had patches for stable & patches for "master", and they were differents
19:17 Brooke early submission means shouldn't be X00 patches at a given moment, no?
19:17 thd paul_p: Do you mean too many to examine?
19:17 gmcharlt paul_p: chris_n can pick and choose; there is no obligation to backport everything from HED to 3.2.x
19:17 hdl I would propose that bugfixes on 3.2 would be submit by companies on both branches when they diverge.
19:17 richard joined #koha
19:17 paul_p gmcharlt, what is the problem with having patches for 3.2.x and cherry picking them to head ?
19:17 slef paul_p: depends what for. security has its own patches for stable.
19:17 jwagner_ Brooke, submission can depend on client approval, so there might very well be many at once.
19:18 hdl And chris_n would be able to ask for someone for signoff
19:18 chris_n paul_p: once things diverge to that point, the submitter will be responsible to ensure that the patch merges
19:18 thd hdl: We actually did that at one time in general.
19:18 chris_n before submitting for 3.2.x
19:18 * Brooke is having trouble understanding why clients are easier to talk to than Release Managers
19:18 chris_n but that is really always the case
19:18 chris there should never ever ever ever ever bet x00 patches at once again
19:19 * chris is back at his computer
19:19 hdl ( Brooke becaus managers will be managers ;à) )
19:19 jwagner_ chris_n, can you clarify the process?  Patches for 3.2.x also go into the line for 3.4?
19:19 thd paul_p: You were release maintainer when patches were being submitted to the current branch in addition to HEAD/master.
19:19 chris so now i can get asked 50 questions at once nd have a chance to respond
19:19 * jwagner_ is getting confused
19:19 chris jwagner_: patches should be submitted on master
19:19 chris if a bug exists in 3.2.x it exists in master
19:20 slef I doubt clients would want to break community development.
19:20 paul_p thd, we used CVS when I was RMaint, that's much different (and we had not so many contributors as we have today)
19:20 chris and then pulled back to 3.2.x
19:20 gmcharlt moving on - if people have a problem with chris_n's proposed management of 3.2.x, let's take it to the mailing lists
19:20 gmcharlt we have a bunch of other big topics on the agenda
19:20 gmcharlt next item
19:20 gmcharlt Restarting the Koha copyright license upgrade ballot process for Koha 3.4 previously postponed from the Koha Copyright License Upgrade Ballot IRC Meeting - 13 July 2010.
19:20 paul_p gmcharlt, (I don't have a problem, I just want to understand)
19:21 chris_n paul_p: I'll make a post to the list later
19:21 gmcharlt thd: I assume you add this one, so the floor is yours
19:21 paul_p (and still not convinced, but I'll live with it, no problem)
19:21 thd During KohaCon I added content to the wiki to restart the license upgrade ballot process after KohaCon
19:21 chris_n paul_p: then we can have all of the discussion necessary :)
19:22 thd I actually made some improvements to the wiki to make the information easier to find.
19:23 thd The content is all linked from[…]copyright_license
19:23 slef ok, I'll look by weekend
19:23 thd Most importantly I summarised the special ballot IRC meeting.
19:24 davi looking
19:24 thd I am sorry that my broken computer, and infection which will not leave me created a delay.
19:24 thd[…]ng_-_13_July_2010
19:24 wizzyrea thd: I am sorry that you had those problems at all :(
19:24 marlened left #koha
19:24 gmcharlt regarding the ballot
19:25 gmcharlt I propose that we put out a call to review the material that thd and others have put together
19:25 davi I will add content to the[…]oha_AGPL_3_option one, as promised when I have time
19:25 gmcharlt and dedicate a portion of the next general IRC meeting to decide the logics of if, when, and how to hold the vote
19:25 davi if somebody came first I will just review and improve it if possible
19:25 jwagner_ To clarify, the page shows three licenses.  There were others being considered, as I recall (LGPL and Apache) -- should they be added to this page?
19:25 thd gmcharlt++
19:26 Brooke left #koha
19:26 gmcharlt jwagner_: I don't recall LGPL and Apache being discussed, but if you want to advocate for them, I think that would be in bounds; I do suggest doing so before the meeting next month
19:26 thd I would have done more in advance but I have been researching Z39.50 options.
19:26 Brooke joined #koha
19:27 jwagner_ OK, we will add those and some others for consideration.
19:27 thd ... and catching up on KohaCon
19:27 davi jwagner, I think only options were: 1) as now, 2) GPLv+ 3) AGPLv3+
19:27 robinHome LGPL would be a wierd one for a web app.
19:27 davi s/GPLv+/GPLv3+/
19:27 davi LGPL --
19:28 slef robinHome: would it gain *anything* at all?
19:28 thd jwagner: we can discuss anything but neither LGPL nor Apache are permissible upgrades from GPL 2, invoked with the or later version option
19:28 gmcharlt ok, I think we've exhausted this one (discussion of licenses can go on wiki and list)
19:28 robinHome slef: I don't think it would. It would effectively be GPLv2, but with unused bits added.
19:28 gmcharlt moving onward, four items left
19:29 gmcharlt I'm going to pick the easiest one first to start:
19:29 gmcharlt jqueryui adoption instead of YUI
19:29 slef sounds ok to me... implications?
19:29 gmcharlt this is a proposal from paul_p (?) to replace use of YUI with jQuery/UI
19:29 paul_p not sure it's the easiest one, but it will be the less hard-discuted one ;-)
19:29 slef can it be done at tt-switchover time?
19:30 paul_p gmcharlt, yep, I suggested that. But have no specific plan. Just wondering
19:30 paul_p I feel it's a good idea.
19:30 gmcharlt from my point of view, does have advantages, primarily because it would simplify things
19:30 wizzyrea owen, do you have a feeling about abandoning YUI
19:30 gmcharlt and I think jQuery/UI is up to the task
19:30 robinHome Yeah, I'm quite fond of the idea.
19:30 paul_p BibLibre devs complains about having 2 differents toolkits
19:30 owen I'm for abandoning YUI for everything bug the CSS grids layout
19:30 jwagner_ I think jquery is the better path for the future
19:30 paul_p owen, bug ? or but ?
19:31 gmcharlt ok, so how about this: it is an open question whether a complete switchover could be done in 3.4
19:31 owen everything but the CSS grids layout
19:31 gmcharlt so I suggest that we introduce jQuery/UI
19:31 gmcharlt and pick a particular widget to replace first
19:31 paul_p owen, why ? isn't there a css grid with jqueryui ?
19:31 robinHome One thing (I think) worth looking at at the same time is making Koha work with current jquery. It's stuck on an old version at the moment.
19:31 owen paul_p: No, because jQuery is all JavaScript, not CSS
19:32 owen I agree with gmcharlt on replacing particular widgets first
19:32 gmcharlt owen: any suggestions, off-hand, about what to try first?
19:32 hdl could also be done with some performance improvements of javascript( putting javascript at teh end of pages for instanceà
19:33 owen Well, we actually need to merge some non-UI jquery things to jUI as well, so I thought we'd start with tabs
19:33 gmcharlt hdl: good idea, but also a different matter - orthogonal to jQuery/UI replacing YUI
19:33 owen The jUI autocomplete widget is out of beta, so that might be something to start with
19:33 owen I think we might put off doing buttons/menus until the jUI menu widget comes out of beta
19:33 hdl (yes... But should this be done on the same branch ?)
19:33 gmcharlt owen: autocomplete sounds perfect to start - only a few places use it
19:34 gmcharlt OK, moving on
19:34 gmcharlt RFCs agreement workflow (discussion about the workflow for RFCs to be accepted/validated)
19:35 chris oh look theres that thing i said was on the agenda for later
19:35 paul_p back to previous discussion ;-)
19:36 paul_p according to me there are 2 differents things :
19:36 paul_p - is a code properly written => RM role, we all agree
19:36 paul_p (I mean technically OK)
19:37 paul_p - is the feature something we want into Koha => we must decide before it's written if yes or no
19:37 paul_p because it's silly to invest a lot of time if the feature is not accepted at the end. Everybody will have pain with that
19:37 Brooke consensus before a write = less risk of a drop
19:37 jwagner_ paul_p++
19:37 Brooke just do it is nice but you're gambling on inclusion
19:38 paul_p Brooke, ok, but what/who/when do we make a consensus ?
19:38 LBA paul_p++
19:38 Brooke here now or on the listserv
19:38 Brooke provided no response on rfc
19:38 chris deciding on a rfc
19:38 slef rfc author usually leads consensus-building
19:38 slef but any supporter could
19:38 chris still will not result in the feature being guaranteed acceptance in a release
19:39 paul_p but until now, rfc resulted in only few responses
19:39 chris i dont know how i can say this any other way
19:39 slef paul_p: speak for your own rfcs!
19:39 paul_p chris, I fully agree with that (guaranted acceptance in a release)
19:39 cait so what guarantees do you expect?
19:40 paul_p but we (community) should be able to say "yes it's a good feature" or "no, it's not a good feature".
19:40 slef we can say that
19:40 paul_p s/it's/it will/
19:40 cait I think if someone has a problem with an rfc he will speak up - I really like the proposed things for acq and serials
19:40 chris_n well developed and promoted RFCs are a must; however, people participation is a must also
19:40 LBA I don't think anyone expects a guarantee of inclusion in next release but a tentative yes or no is important
19:40 jwagner_ Sponsors should be able to say if it's a good feature
19:40 thd paul_p: There is a space between a guarantee and silence
19:41 rafael joined #koha
19:41 LBA yes thd, does silence mean "good idea!" or "yikes, no way" or "I'm too busy"
19:41 thd cait++
19:41 owen jwagner_: Sponsors don't always have the project's best interests in mind
19:41 wizzyrea What about a RFC roundup at the end of every release, to see what could possibly, given a delivery date of X before the next release, go in
19:41 chris_n jwagner_: yes, but they are effectively members of the community as well and so are one voice of many
19:41 hdl jwagner_: not only sponsors... But users.
19:41 LBA wizzyrea++
19:41 * chris_n thinks people should comment on RFCs even if only to say "nice idea"
19:41 Brooke so
19:41 Brooke uh
19:41 jwagner_ owen, developers may not either.
19:41 paul_p owen, exactly !!! so = what is the project's best interest ? who decides what it is ?
19:41 chris i think people should talk about rfc
19:41 thd LBA: Silence is abstaining at least
19:42 * Brooke gets out the bottle of gasoline
19:42 chris not talk about taling about rfc
19:42 Brooke where's the line between local customisation and a fork?
19:42 jwagner_ paul_p -- ditto -- there has to be some way to decide as a group what's in the best interest
19:42 hdl wizzyrea: to lave only once a release.
19:42 hdl s/lave/late/
19:42 thd LBA: However, there is a duty of developers and sponsors to promote discussion.
19:42 slef LBA: you can't tell what non-response means except it wasn't enough to get a response.
19:42 rach joined #koha
19:42 tajoli I think that RFC only about "feature" you can say: I whant you opinion (on dev e general list) and if there aren't disagree, the answer is "the next version"
19:42 hdl (too seldom in fact)
19:43 wizzyrea well a dedicated week or month where RFC's that could concievably be delivered in time for the next release are discussed
19:43 tajoli But for core change (like solr), we need a vote
19:43 wizzyrea they can come out any time within the cycle
19:43 paul_p tajoli, "in the next version" => not necessary.
19:43 hdl slef: but it seems that it is quite often the case.
19:43 Brooke hmmm
19:43 LBA tajoli...really?
19:43 Brooke sounds a bit like free code day
19:43 slef hdl: not for me.
19:43 dpk I think forms like this could be used to review RFCs that lack feedback.
19:43 hdl how many RFC have you posted ?
19:43 gmcharlt note that there are technical mechanisms to solve at least a couple of the social problems
19:44 gmcharlt the syspref mechanism being the obvious example
19:44 hdl how many response ?
19:44 slef hdl: only 3 in 3.4 category so far I think.
19:44 hdl gmcharlt: can you detail ?
19:44 sekjal since there is no guarantee that any RFC will be part of any release, perhaps the RFC section of the wiki should be decoupled from any release number
19:44 gmcharlt hdl: well, consider Zebra vs. NoZebra
19:45 gmcharlt two search engines, both (more or less) supported
19:45 chris_n what about using bugzilla's vote feature to help clarify community consensus on any given RFC?
19:45 cfouts sekjal++
19:45 slef hdl: at least 1 so far to each. more promo/discussiomn needed, but it's up to me to get it. I'm not going to suggest others have some duty to care about our ideas.
19:45 paul_p sekjal, that's what I did with RFC last week, but can probably still be improved
19:45 gmcharlt hence some disagreement can be dealt with by accommodate paralel implementations of the same functionality
19:45 thd tajoli: Core: changes can often be written to require less of a core change instead of either/or alternative.
19:45 slef chris_n: using bugzilla's voting could be good.
19:45 hdl sekjal: should contain a release number when planned.
19:45 tajoli No, for me consenus is mandatory only on core change (like Solr)
19:45 chris_n how hard is it to read and vote, folks?
19:46 slef hdl: no, should be added to a release category.
19:46 paul_p tajoli++ (consensus on core changes)
19:46 slef chris_n: can we vote by mail? ;)
19:46 hdl gmcharlt: this example is quite good.
19:46 thd gmchalt++
19:46 Brooke thd ++
19:46 chris_n slef: anyway you like as long as it shows up in bugzilla ;-)
19:46 hdl Since in the end it was proved that Nozebra could not provide users with the same features.
19:46 gmcharlt and some things can be handled with well designed architecture
19:47 hdl So NoZebra became unsupported.
19:47 paul_p ...silently...
19:47 cfouts which is fine
19:47 chris_n ^^ what he said
19:47 gmcharlt but ultimately ... that was fine
19:47 paul_p that is a pain for users : no one has announced "NoZebra is no more supported", and it's not fair for users
19:47 slef actually, if someone ported a list like bug 1234 5678 5692 then it would be easy to put that into bz's search box and step through and vote.
19:47 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1234 enhancement, P2, ---, paul.poulain, NEW, Parameter: Bar Code # Prefix for book / patron searching
19:47 chris_n only if the documentation is kept up
19:47 gmcharlt if somebody really wanted to maintain NoZebra (or a pure-perl search engine, more generally), they could do so
19:48 slef munin: shut it ratbag!
19:48 Brooke we can scream bloody murder though Paul
19:48 munin slef: Error: "shut" is not a valid command.
19:48 Brooke like on say loosing RDA like features.
19:48 Brooke and in a worst case, we can hire someone to put em back
19:48 * Brooke believes in Zen programmes
19:48 slef erm, this deserted station doesn't seem the safest place
19:49 gmcharlt ok, in the interest of time ... moving on
19:49 gmcharlt next item is git management (branches)
19:49 slef someone is making odd noises... I'm going to move... biab
19:49 LBA gmcharlt, is that it?  I'm not clear on any consensus.  can you summarize?
19:49 jransom notes that the term'ratbag' appears to fallen into common usage .... :)
19:49 gmcharlt not sure what this one is about; if its' about branches in the public repo, chris has laid out hte scheme he intends to use
19:50 thd Brooke: Zen programmes?
19:50 gmcharlt LBA: consensus?  no, I don't think we've achieved it, but I am also pretty sure that that we could debate this for hours and not get there
19:50 cait yep
19:51 gmcharlt which is why it is handy that there are multiple forums available to us, including the mailing lists
19:51 chris[…]=koha.git;a=heads you can see the branches in action here
19:51 chris http://koha-releasemanagement.[…]ranches_to_merge/
19:51 paul_p gmcharlt, you're probably right. and it's too bad = means we decide nothing :\
19:51 chris and see what i am working on here
19:51 gmcharlt paul_p: perhaps not, but I think we have achieved a better understanding of the issues
19:52 chris and what i did
19:52 chris http://koha-releasemanagement.[…]shed_10_November/
19:52 chris etc
19:52 thd paul_p: It will take time
19:52 chris new/enh for new features
19:52 chris new/ for bugfixes
19:52 cait I think we can start doing things - like having bugs for rfc's - asking for feedback etc.
19:52 paul_p gmcharlt, & thd ok
19:52 thd paul_p: I am confident that we will sort the issue.
19:52 chris new/awaiting_qa/ for ones that need qa then will move to one or the other
19:52 gmcharlt and ultimately ... it's better to discuss and/or promote the actual RFCs than have a discussion about having those discussions that goes on without any clear end
19:53 chris gmcharlt++
19:53 paul_p thd, I would like to be optimistic like you're ;-)
19:53 LBA gmcharlt :-*
19:53 wizzyrea gmcharlt++
19:53 chris_n paul_p: are there enh reqs in bugzilla for biblibre's latest RFCs?
19:53 paul_p chris_n, yep
19:53 chris_n cool
19:53 hdl chris what about new/tested/bug/// new/tested/enh/...
19:53 chris they are tested
19:54 chris if they dont have /awaiting_qa/
19:54 chris at least enough testing to be considered for master
19:54 paul_p chris_n, i've written a wiki template, that is very handful
19:54 paul_p for example :[…]ports_serials_RFC
19:54 cfouts what is the purpose of distinguishing between bug and enhancement?
19:54 hdl chris ok cool
19:54 chris cfouts: it helps chris_n a lot
19:55 cfouts gotcha
19:55 hdl chris++
19:55 chris its easy to cherry-pick from those branches
19:55 hdl helping chris_n++
19:55 hdl he could rebase --onto master...
19:55 chris yup
19:55 * hdl loves branch management
19:55 chris or he could merge new/bug_3421
19:55 jransom (gotta go folks - thanks all - bye)
19:55 * chris_n too
19:56 chris etc
19:56 gmcharlt k, anything more to say about the branch structure?
19:56 chris i gots a picture
19:56 jransom left #koha
19:56 hdl merging could make features get into stable
19:56 chris[…]-worth-of-merges/
19:56 LBA bug=responsibility of Release Maintainer?  and enh=responsibility of Release Manager for next release (potentially)?
19:56 chris hdl: yep he would have to be careful, cherry pick or rebase --onto
19:57 chris LBA: bugs have to be fixed for both release streams
19:57 chris fixed for master, then ported back to 3.2.x is how we are doing it
19:57 gmcharlt hdl: with the QA process coming into place, and with hudson, HEAD will also be *more* stable
19:57 hdl chris what ar those fortunes ?
19:57 LBA okay, thanks for clarification.
19:57 slef bbl
19:57 hdl A bird in the hand makes it awfully hard to blow your nose.
19:57 chris hdl: just random things to make list of patches more interesting
19:58 chris i did some haiku too
19:58 chris http://koha-releasemanagement.[…]ushed_4_November/
19:58 gmcharlt ok, now that chris is doing haiku, definitely time to move on in the agenda ;)
19:58 hdl gmcharlt: + all the new tests.... to be written.
19:58 gmcharlt the next non-routine item:
19:59 gmcharlt hdl: the beauty is that tests can be added incremental - write a new feature, write tests for it
19:59 gmcharlt write a bugfix, write a regression test for it
19:59 gmcharlt so the agenda item:
19:59 gmcharlt proposal to form a Technical Committee + request this discussion be postponed due to short notice at a time when many Kohacon10 participants were travelling
19:59 chris yes, tests will win you lots of karma
19:59 gmcharlt so we have an agenda item relating to a current discussion on the mailing lists
19:59 * chris_n groans at the thought of trying to gain a consensus on two such items in one meeting
20:00 gmcharlt and a request to postpone (presumably until the next general meeting)
20:00 thd chris_n :)
20:00 gmcharlt so ... getting the procedural bit out the way, I call a vote to postpone to the December meeting
20:00 * gmcharlt abstains
20:00 LBA ++
20:00 hdl --
20:00 jwagner_ --
20:00 cfouts --
20:00 paul_p --
20:01 chris ++
20:01 thd -- Discussion, if it is not deciding does no harm.
20:01 tajoli --
20:01 owen ++
20:01 hdl ! (I want to explain my position)
20:02 cait ++
20:02 * jcamins abstains - won't be able to stay for the discussion today, probably
20:02 * Brooke is as silent as the average RFC respondant.
20:02 magnus ++
20:02 BobB BobB abstains
20:02 davi Is a Technical Committee actually needed?
20:02 * wizzyrea abstains — I have time both now and later
20:02 Colin abstains
20:02 davi Is not voting at each decision enough?
20:03 paul_p davi, that's what we have to discuss ;-)
20:03 davi voting at each decision ++
20:03 davi ack paul_p
20:03 davi Technical Committee --
20:03 hdl davi:  when should decision be taken... and who should decide ?
20:04 Lee abstains
20:04 gmcharlt ok, I'm calling the vote - preponderance of people who have voted is to *not* postpone the discussion item
20:04 davi Anyway people can delegate his vote if they want, and that would lend to a more valanced Technical Committee in a natural way on demand
20:04 davi voting at each decision ++
20:04 davi with vote delegation
20:04 thd gmcharlt: I like to move a question of not deciding the issue now.
20:04 davi optional
20:05 paul_p agreed not to decide now. just want to discuss of this.
20:05 gmcharlt ok, there is a motion to not decide the issue now
20:05 davi hdl, All the interested would show opinion in the decision taking process, as now
20:05 * chris_n seconds
20:05 LBA ++ not to decide anything today
20:05 thd ++
20:06 * dpk ++ not decide now
20:06 magnus ++
20:06 davi ++ not decide now
20:06 francharb left #koha
20:06 Colin ++
20:06 paul_p I have expressed my opinion widely on koha ML, I won't repeat. but if you want, I can ;-)
20:06 sekjal ++ for not deciding
20:06 gmcharlt ok, the direction of the vote is clear enough
20:07 hdl ++ for not deciding but discuss.
20:07 tajoli ++
20:07 hdl there is a reall need for clarity...
20:07 jwagner_ We've had a lot of topics on the agenda today and been unable/unwilling to make decisions on many of them.  I think that's a good reason in favor of having some kind of technical committee -- some group with responsibility to guide the future of the project.
20:07 * gmcharlt submits that the technical committee already exists, and is to be found on koha-devel
20:08 Brooke ++ galen
20:08 hdl Both from users, libraries, and from developers as to making a successfull collaboration
20:08 thd gmcharlt++
20:08 magnus gmcharlt++
20:08 chris gmcharlt++
20:08 jwagner_ gmcharlt, that is not any kind of structured decision-making forum
20:08 LBA gmcharlt++
20:08 hdl gmcharlt--
20:08 tajoli gmcharlt++
20:08 davi jwagner, Technical Committee can fail at taking decision too, in the same way, and even worse; take the worn ones some time.
20:08 chris_n jwagner_: how will a technical committee with no way to enforce its decisions help that problem?
20:08 owen I think maybe what we really need is a more formal voting process to bring to questions which a technical committee might otherwise address
20:08 paul_p gmcharlt, disagreeing
20:08 hdl No decision is taken via email
20:08 LBA I think was is missing is not a Technical Committee but some clarity about protocol...thus my incessant nagging
20:08 Brooke if you're looking for vertical structure in an open source project, you will be disappointed routinely.
20:08 jwagner_ It's a great mechanism for floating ideas and discussing possibilities.
20:09 hdl Nothing clear
20:09 cait gmcharlt++
20:09 hdl and some design options has to be coped with on a longer term.
20:09 cait late... but I got distracted
20:09 thd We could create a mechanism such as voting on bugs to have greater clarity.
20:10 wizzyrea we have had that for a while
20:10 Lee galen are libraries represented on the devel committee?
20:10 thd However, when it comes to running verified code votes count for very little.
20:10 jwagner_ I think there needs to be some one/group that takes responsibility to look beyond the current release and identify areas that need improvement, that need attention, and that people are willing to sponsor -- not for the next release but for the one, two, three releases after that.
20:10 paul_p wizzyrea, maybe, but until now, it has been quite un-efficient :\
20:10 Brooke I agree on formalisation of protocol. That's the ratbag consultant contingent's responsibility
20:10 hdl Brooke: vertical structure... maybe not... But collaboration. and work together.... I did hope so
20:10 wizzyrea the real problem is convincing people to actually vote
20:10 gmcharlt Lee: anybody who cares to express an opinion is represented
20:11 davi owen, "more formal voting process",  allowing to vote via any communication email, IRC, and so on, as the indivitual identity is verified
20:11 davi so who only read email will vote too
20:11 paul_p wizzyrea++ (convincing to vote)
20:11 jwagner_ Right now, what's happening is that any vendor with development contracts is working independently with little coordination.
20:11 cfouts I don't care what it's called, but Koha needs to have a vision of what's happening beyond the next release.
20:11 davi or who only attend meetings can vote too
20:11 chris_n wizzyrea++
20:11 tajoli jwagner++
20:11 paul_p jwagner_, any vendor, or any library employed ppl
20:12 jwagner_ paul_p, correct
20:12 paul_p (not sure my last sentence was correct english ;-) )
20:12 owen A technical committee can't enforce their "vision" because it all depends on who funds the development
20:12 cfouts people who are looking at architectural issues and working to build consensus about how to contribute in the present with an eye toward the future
20:12 jwagner_ owen, yes, but a group could steer and encourage development
20:12 chris_n so what does such a committee benefit over what we have now?
20:12 LBA vision beyond next release still doesn't get a developer what they might need for their client (but I'm okay with that in the spirit of staying flexible as new needs/technology arise).
20:12 cfouts chris_n: attention
20:12 thd cfouts: What about our existing forums is deficient for developing that vision?
20:12 owen jwagner_: steer? Encourage, I suppose.
20:12 cfouts they're too diffuse
20:12 chris_n cfouts: post to the list and then bump, bump, bump
20:12 paul_p owen, that's where I disagree : if I have a contract signed and a technical committee says "no", then i can go back to my customer & negociate/find a good solution
20:13 wizzyrea for one: lots and lots of cooks.
20:13 cfouts there's a wiki and mailing lists and irc and bugzilla and whatever.
20:13 owen paul_p: What I mean is that a technical committee can't imagine a new feature and then expect someone to develop it
20:13 LBA I think it isn't a problem with the venues for getting feedback and planning ahead, the problem is that there needs to be a guarantee of some kind of response.
20:13 paul_p owen, agreed (I may have misunderstood you)
20:14 jwagner_ owen, I think that would be part of a committee's job, actually
20:14 tajoli No, but it does a valutation
20:14 davi cfouts, count votes on all that medias
20:14 thd wizzyrea: many cooks make a nice feast for everyone
20:14 Brooke erm, I think it's more a problem of Taylorism v. Organic governance
20:14 dpk Other projects have annual meetings (like KohaCon) these kind of strategy issues are dealt with face to face
20:14 wizzyrea too many cooks spoil the soup :P
20:14 cfouts davi: I don't have infinite time to look at all those venues
20:14 owen jwagner_: How? You would have a committee instruct PTFS on what they should develop next?
20:14 davi cfouts, formalise it
20:14 paul_p but when a sponsored (major) dev arrive, a tech committee or something like that could be handy to help with our relations with the library.
20:14 Brooke cfouts: each user his venue
20:14 chris_n cfouts: that is why people need to start using wiki+BZ and vote
20:14 cfouts davi: that's what we're talking about
20:15 hdl owen: there are structural work that needs to be done.
20:15 paul_p dpk++
20:15 jwagner_ We would certainly encourage our customers who are interested in sponsoring development to look at a committee's recommendations.
20:15 jwagner_ The customers decide what gets developed, not PTFS
20:15 hdl That could improve the work for everyone
20:15 chris_n this is a basic people problem and no amount of committee-ing it will fix it
20:15 thd wizzyrea: I know the adage but the adage applied to free software is that free software is bad
20:15 hdl this should not be the task or the will of one company.
20:15 davi chris_n, ++
20:15 chris_n jwagner_: encourage them to look at the RFC's on wiki
20:15 paul_p chris_n, disagreeing partially
20:16 paul_p I don't want to add bureaucracy, I want to add reliability
20:16 sekjal fundamental problem:  no one in the community can make anyone else do anything (except customers directing their vendors).  we're all free to do as we please.  hopefully, most of us choose to cooperate as best we can
20:16 chris_n paul_p: and with no enforcement mechanism, how do these propositions help?
20:16 davi paul_p, ++
20:16 jwagner_ sekjal, that's the problem -- HOW do we best cooperate?
20:16 Brooke sekjal that's a feature, not a bug
20:16 paul_p jwagner_++
20:16 wizzyrea that's not the point really (or certainly not what I meant).
20:16 chris_n paul_p: we cannot *make* people do what we may think they should
20:17 davi votes to the power
20:17 slef back, reading
20:17 cfouts who is proposing to make anyone do anything, here?
20:17 paul_p chris_n, whan the linux kernel decide to add a new platform, there is someone that decides this strategic decision isn't it ?
20:17 tajoli I think that to cooperate at best we need to do evaluation on what is Koha
20:17 gmcharlt paul_p: nope
20:17 chris_n so unless the "committee" has the authority to say " we do this", it is little better than another voice in the crowd
20:17 thd paul_p: Reliability as such may not be available but you could have much additional confidence which is less than reliability.
20:17 chris paul_p: no there isnt
20:17 gmcharlt paul_p: what happens is that somebody starts hacking together support for a new platform
20:17 gmcharlt gets it working
20:18 gmcharlt and submits it up the chain
20:18 tajoli Is softeware for library with few reasoures or not ?
20:18 chris and if it flies, it flies
20:18 hdl chris_n: we could work on building little workgroups and build concensus
20:18 gmcharlt obviously it's in their intrest to communicate well during the process
20:18 hdl in that group
20:18 davi hdl ++
20:18 hdl for the purpose of the group.
20:18 hdl And then... step by step enlarge.
20:18 thd hdl++
20:18 chris_n communication is one of the core problems here as well
20:18 hdl But there are structural needs.
20:18 davi hdl++
20:18 paul_p chris_n, agreed
20:19 wizzyrea certainly if someone said "hey, i have an idea and I want a few folks to help me work it out" would people volunteer?
20:19 davi nobody is forced to volunter
20:19 cfouts example: the transition to using an ORM is a platform change that no one entity is going to do or pay for
20:19 jwagner_ wizzyrea, I think yes, if there was a defined process for doing so
20:19 tajoli sometime yes, often no
20:19 chris_n but again, we can only encourage communication, not enforce it
20:19 jwagner_ But right now there are a _lot_ of defined ways, and people get confused
20:19 thd hdl: I think the problem is the degree of formalism.
20:19 Brooke chris_n go look at Brook's law. This is growing pains.
20:19 paul_p cfouts++
20:19 cfouts it's something that needs a long-term vision, backed by research, and a plan developed as to how it could be implemented
20:20 hdl cfouts: but everyone agrees it is needed.
20:20 chris i dont
20:20 jwagner_ cfouts++
20:20 hdl + db structure redesing
20:20 hdl (or at least work)
20:20 paul_p chris, can you explain more ?
20:20 davi cfouts, no, just do it, and improve it
20:20 Brooke so speaking of long range vision, I've 23ish responses to my 3 word summaries of Koha >.> <.<
20:20 hdl davi HUGE work.
20:21 davi well, or do it or do not talk about it
20:21 cfouts davi, I don't think you realize the scale of this
20:21 dpk Sounds like a two-year plan for Koha development should be a major goal of the next KohaCon - with people prepping ahead of time.
20:21 thd hdl: We could go further than what we do at present without going so far we have a model which is not a free software model
20:21 paul_p chris, (we know you disagree with this idea. But i prefer hard discussion to seeing you staying silent)
20:21 davi talking and not doing does not help as much
20:21 jwagner_ dpk, I don't think this can wait another year.  There's too much in the pipeline now.
20:21 thd cfouts++
20:22 wizzyrea so, as a reference point, how was the switch to zebra decided?
20:22 paul_p cfouts++
20:22 * chris_n has seen little discussion on the mailing list concerning either ORM or db restructuring
20:22 paul_p wizzyrea, joshua proposed it, with some (few) benchmarks comparing with lucene, and it has been decided.
20:22 chris no it wasnt decided then
20:22 chris_n if it is so important, why are is it not being promoted in available forums?
20:22 cfouts which is why koha-devel does not strike me as an effective forum for that kind of planning
20:22 chris we did a lot more testing
20:23 chris and tumer did a lot of testing
20:23 jwagner_ I've seen discussion on the mailing list about database restructuring.
20:23 chris and it still wasnt totally decided until the hackfest
20:23 dpk jwagner_, fair enough.
20:23 paul_p (yep, wanted to add we worked on this during the 1st KohaCon)
20:23 chris_n jwager_: examples?
20:24 jwagner_ chris_n, examples of what? listserv discussion?  Can't give you specifics right now, but I definitely remember a lot of traffic recently about MySQL, Postgres, etc.
20:24 chris thats database abstraction, thats a whole different thing
20:24 chris to restructuring
20:24 chris_n ahh... db agnosticism is not what I call restructuring, sorry
20:24 chris but yeah we are getting off topic
20:24 chris_n <snap>
20:25 chris i think meetings like this, we a more defined agenda
20:25 hdl ???
20:25 chris are a good place to discuss things like ORM
20:25 chris with discussion summarised to the wiki and koha-devel
20:25 jwagner_ I suggest a special meeting with this as the main/sole agenda item
20:26 chris i suggest we just have meetings on technical decisions
20:26 cait chris++
20:26 paul_p chris++
20:26 chris instead of a meeting about having meetings on techincal decisions
20:26 chris_n chris++
20:26 Colin chris++
20:26 wizzyrea interested parties can attend, and there's your committee
20:26 Brooke <3 chris
20:26 hdl chris++
20:26 cait chris+100
20:26 chris_n ie. a meeting to discuss ORM, etc
20:26 chris BAM
20:26 chris soleve
20:26 chris solved
20:26 chris lets all go have a drink now
20:26 slef wizzyrea: no, no committees.
20:26 Brooke right
20:26 cfouts not sure how that's any different than what is proposed
20:26 * Brooke heads straight for the pub.
20:27 thd chris++
20:27 magnus chris++
20:27 jwagner_ Question: who decides we need to have a meeting on ORM, etc.? And does background work to provide info?
20:27 hdl chris as soon as there is open space for discussion and collaboration fine...
20:27 cait the person proposing it
20:27 chris_n jwager_: anyone can propose it and schedule a time I think
20:27 slef ...who decides who decides we need to have a meeting about a meeting...
20:27 chris jwagner_: any one can call a meeting
20:27 trea consensus decides
20:27 chris if no one turns up
20:28 chris well, theres your answer
20:28 slef Why is this being complicated?
20:28 thd jwagmer_: Those with an interest do the work.
20:28 chris so its up to the organiser to promote their meeting/topic
20:28 thd oops jwagner
20:28 hdl slef: because it seems that whenever a proposition is done, ppl are suspicious.
20:29 chris_n so why doesn't someone who feels the urgency of a move to ORM do a writeup to the list and propose a meeting time?
20:29 chris_n same for DB restructuring
20:29 chris_n etc, etc, etc
20:29 hdl solr
20:29 dpk It sounds like there is a real need for some more long term planning, but finding the right venue is going to be the challenge.
20:29 chris_n ^^
20:29 cait so propose a meeting time
20:29 Brooke dpk: just do eet. Join us ratbag consultants.
20:29 slef hdl: no, not suspicion, solr looks like a bad idea to me at the moment.
20:29 cait I think we should talk about long term things at the irc meetings too - and have proposals etc. on the wiki - what is stopping us from that?
20:30 chris_n exactly
20:30 cfouts I think what's potentially missing is the same thing that people are complaining about being missing from the RFC process: no comment.
20:30 cait why invent something new?
20:30 Brooke naught
20:30 sekjal hdl: I'd like to discuss solr and learn more about what it may mean for us.  I'd happily attend a meeting
20:30 chris cait++
20:30 thd cfouts has raised an important issue of not having the workload and costs fall too heavily on any one support company for major issues which benefit everyone but are not the core problems of any sponsor in particular.
20:30 jwagner_ solr is definitely a good idea that needs discussion soon
20:30 hdl you donot have enoug problem with zebra.
20:30 Brooke I'm sticking stuff on the listserv for comment
20:30 Brooke and folks are responding
20:30 paul_p hdl++
20:30 chris_n nothing stops anyone from putting "long term" items on the agenda
20:30 paul_p zebra--
20:30 paul_p zebra--
20:30 paul_p zebra--
20:30 paul_p zebra--
20:30 paul_p zebra--
20:30 paul_p zebra--
20:30 Brooke then I'm sticking the responses on the wiki
20:30 chris_n poor zebra ;)
20:30 chris regression_in_the_name_of_progress--
20:30 chris_n @karma zebra
20:30 munin chris_n: Karma for "zebra" has been increased 3 times and decreased 9 times for a total karma of -6.
20:30 slef zebra++
20:30 paul_p really tired to have problems with diacritics. lucky english-natives !
20:30 paul_p you can't imagine our pains...
20:31 paul_p really
20:31 chris i can
20:31 chris we speak maori here
20:31 chris and have macrons
20:31 hdl sekjal: we shall do some in the near future.
20:31 paul_p chris, and you have a koha/zebra/maori ? congrats !
20:31 slef Huh, I've a catalogue with non-latin items, not reporting problems, but it's not that big and I think they transliterated everything for the old systems.
20:31 paul_p just for everybody information :
20:31 chris_n paul_p: I'd like to see biblibre do a writeup to the list and propose a meeting to discuss solr
20:32 chris id happily see c4::search  and c4::search::zebra and c4::search::solr and c4::search::nutch
20:32 hdl sekjal: expect a meeting on that and a post on kohadeve...
20:32 chris_n lets see if we can make the present venues work
20:32 sekjal hdl:  great!
20:32 hdl Data::SearchEngine is there.
20:32 thd Zebra together with Solr/Lucene until no regression.
20:32 cait it seems to work with hebrew too - no complaints so far
20:32 chris thd++
20:32 gmcharlt ok, dragging back to the agenda
20:32 slef gmcharlt++
20:32 cait although I really liked what I saw in biblibre's poc - I think it should be discussed
20:32 gmcharlt we have a nascent proposal for a technical discussion meeting, most likely on the topic of Solr
20:32 paul_p except we will loose many great things solr has (but that's another discussion, I agree)
20:33 gmcharlt and others who want to call such meetings are free to do so
20:33 gmcharlt specifics regarding timing should be discussed on the mailing lists
20:33 slef I've been seeing a thread about solr gone away on vufind list, but I've not read the posts yet.
20:33 gmcharlt any action items from[…]g,_6_October_2010 to discuss?
20:34 gmcharlt hearing none
20:34 Brooke I move to recess
20:34 gmcharlt on to setting the date and time for the next genearl meeting
20:34 * gmcharlt tosses out 8 November 2010
20:34 Brooke December?
20:34 chris_n +1
20:35 chris_n for Nov
20:35 Brooke else I'd need a time machine.
20:35 gmcharlt rather, 8 December 2010, as I haven't completed my time machine either
20:35 wizzyrea +1 for december
20:35 chris_n opps
20:35 chris yeah
20:35 chris_n hehe
20:35 slef looks good to me, assuming December
20:35 slef I had a time machine.
20:35 slef I broke it next year.
20:35 thd +1 8 December
20:35 gmcharlt slef++
20:35 * chris_n goes back to work on C4::TimeMachine
20:35 owen 8 December +1
20:35 dpk LGTM
20:36 sekjal 08 Dec 2010 ++
20:36 Colin ++
20:36 paul_p works for me too
20:36 tajoli 8 Dec --
20:36 Lee +1
20:36 paul_p (would prefer dev 1st, though)
20:36 paul_p (would prefer dec 1st, though)
20:36 cait ++
20:36 magnus +1
20:36 jwagner_ Either the 1st or 8th is fine
20:36 gmcharlt ok, majority is for 8 December
20:37 gmcharlt anbody care to propose the time of day?
20:37 slef I thought 1st Dec was some important date, but it's not marked in my calendar :-/
20:37 chris paul_p: this is for the general meeting
20:37 Brooke I say inconvenience the yanks, since we inconvenienced the kiwis
20:37 chris you should call one for solr sooner if you want
20:37 paul_p chris, yep, I had understood. and that's what we will do, definetly !
20:38 sekjal rotate time 8 hours one direction or another?
20:38 gmcharlt ok, how about 10:00 UTC+0 ?
20:38 dpk Yeah!
20:38 thd what date gmcharlt?
20:38 chris_n +1
20:39 gmcharlt thd: 8 December
20:39 thd +1
20:39 jcamins is now known as jcamins_a
20:39 cait +1
20:39 sekjal +1
20:39 paul_p yikes !
20:39 paul_p means 11PM for us !
20:39 slef Brooke: when are you going to do something with those 3-worders?
20:40 Brooke they will be compiled by Friday
20:40 Brooke then the underpants gnoams will work on it
20:40 gmcharlt paul_p: no, I'm pretty sure that means 11:00 a.m. for you
20:40 chris_n paul_p: ?
20:40 Brooke and I should have summat general by Friday next
20:40 paul_p oups, right, sorry
20:40 paul_p so, really perfect for europe (but not for kiwis)
20:40 chris 11pm for us
20:40 Brooke a preliminary cloud is on the wiki in limbo, but I didn't want to link it until it's finalised on friday
20:40 BobB left #koha
20:40 chris thats better than the morning
20:41 paul_p chris, are you OK with this timing ?
20:41 slef Brooke: cool.
20:41 chris yes
20:41 gmcharlt ok, the next meeting is set for 10:00 UTC+0 on Wednesday, 8 December 2010
20:41 jwagner_ Yeah, we get the early morning time slot this time :-(
20:41 wizzyrea no frowns.
20:41 cait what about 10pm for kiwi and europe? too late too early for us?
20:41 jwagner_ cait, I know
20:41 * chris_n will get to drink extra coffee :-)
20:41 gmcharlt cait: that cuts out the Indians
20:41 cait ah
20:41 * paul_p has suggested to move NZ to atlantic ocean, but seems even UN can't do that
20:41 thd gmcharlt++
20:42 Brooke paul ++
20:42 Brooke clearly they belong in the Carribean.
20:42 BobB joined #koha
20:42 * jwagner_ suggests moving all of us to NZ instead :-)
20:42 cait us = usa
20:42 Lee :)
20:42 * gmcharlt declares the meeting adjourned
20:42 jwagner_ no us = everyone!
20:42 Elwell if only they'd anchor NZ somewhere closer to europe :-)
20:42 thd cait: South Asian participation is important.
20:42 Colin left #koha
20:42 cait yeah, I know I was unclear with my question
20:43 dpk left #koha
20:43 * chris_n will start looking for lists posts and meeting times for the aforementioned devel items
20:43 cait thd: yep, valid point - it was just a question
20:43 cait time zones confuse me
20:43 pauln left #koha
20:43 cait :)
20:43 jwagner_ especially with jet lag
20:43 slef me too, when I'm sliding through 13 of them :-/
20:43 Lee left #koha
20:43 sekjal meeting will be 2-5am for most of the continental USA
20:43 sekjal earlier for Alaska and Hawaii
20:44 hdl jwagner overcrowding NZ.
20:44 anitsirk left #koha
20:44 Brooke toughen up!
20:44 hdl hehe
20:44 tajoli bye
20:44 thd If 2AM, stay up late. :)
20:44 tajoli left #koha
20:44 * sekjal has plenty of coffee on supply
20:44 collum left #koha
20:45 jwagner_ left #koha
20:45 paul_p ok, bye everybody, and see you tomorrow or later. Oups, not tomorrow, because it's closed in France ;-)
20:45 slef another strike?
20:45 BobB left #koha
20:45 paul_p slef, holiday
20:45 paul_p (end of WW1)
20:45 slef ah, a legal strike
20:45 paul_p lol
20:45 slef we get 2 minutes for that
20:45 owen Veterans Day in the US
20:46 rafael left #koha
20:46 thd hdl: Would you give some details of ICU bugs?
20:47 hdl no left truncation
20:47 hdl no completenes
20:47 Elwell paul_p: are the autoroutes traditionally busy with people making it a long weekend (faire le pont)
20:47 hdl no zebra facets.
20:47 hdl Do you need more ?
20:47 thd hdl: What triggers them?
20:47 clrh Bye bye too, see you soon and thanks for the meeting.
20:47 paul_p Elwell, on nov 11th, no. It's more on nov,1st
20:47 hdl icu usage.
20:48 hdl (well for facets... it is even the cas with charmap)
20:48 thd hdl: All ICU usage?
20:48 clrh left #koha
20:48 hdl at least my icu_chain.xml
20:48 Brooke right no more Koha stuff today.
20:48 Brooke cheers lads./
20:48 Brooke left #koha
20:49 hdl but the problem is that support for icu.xml in zebra is rather.... poor
20:49 hdl to say the less
20:49 thd hdl: I had presumed that the issue was for some set of characters within ICU.
20:49 hdl No... All of them
20:49 hdl for instance
20:49 hdl *stoire brings nothing
20:50 paul_p thd, my main complaint against zebra/icu is that it dies without saying anything worth when there is an invalid utf8 char or diacritic in the biblio
20:50 hdl and if you search for complete subfield... you will do a search on word.
20:51 chris im sure there are bugs in zebra
20:51 slef paul_p: koha also dies with a confused error when there is invalid utf8 in a biblio, at least in 3.0 in some situations. :-/
20:51 hdl a... position in field is also deprecated.
20:51 paul_p thd, for Aix-Marseille universities, 700k biblios, we had 14 that were invalid, and needed more than 3 days just to reindex : because Koha can display them, so they seemed OK
20:51 chris i just dont think solr is a drop in replacement, until it can do sru/sw and z3950 etc
20:51 hdl slef: because of MARC::File::XML
20:51 thd hdl: For Z39.50/SRU server purposes as opposed to local indexing do you not have confidence that Index Data would find a fix with an appropriate inducement?
20:52 slef hdl: sometimes.
20:52 test joined #koha
20:52 hdl appropriate inducement ???
20:52 hdl are you kidding ?
20:53 test left #koha
20:53 hdl have you ever aksed for a quote ?
20:53 thd hdl: Yes, in fact.
20:54 chris right, if its the solr zebra battle, im outta here, ill participate in the meeting when its called but its now 10am and i have to do some work
20:54 hdl Do you want to invest money in a dying sofrware ?
20:54 slef zebra is dying???
20:54 slef Have indexdata announced end-of-life?
20:54 hdl zebra3 will be based on solr
20:54 thd hdl: I think that part of the problem is having one company pay for a shared benefit.
20:54 paul_p chris++ and i've to do some sleep ;-)
20:54 magnus good night, #koha
20:54 hdl thd: not only.
20:55 magnus left #koha
20:55 hdl We considered paying seriously.
20:55 thd hdl: Index Data is not yet committed to upgrading Zebra for Solr/Lucene.
20:55 hdl But the fee and contract seemed quite high.
20:55 thd hdl: Zebra has been neglected certainly.
20:56 hdl for each bug
20:56 thd hdl: That maybe which is why costs should be distributed.
20:57 wizzyrea[…]ar2-and-masterkey
20:57 thd hdl: I am not advocating holding on to very buggy software at all costs.
20:57 wizzyrea hmm
20:57 paul_p + there are other issues that we can/should consider as bugs : like having config files so complex & hard to change.
20:57 wizzyrea 9/17, so pretty recent
20:57 hdl and hardcoded
20:57 owen left #koha
20:57 thd wizzyrea: Zebra is absent from their public commitments.
20:57 hdl wizzyrea: yes.
20:57 paul_p what we are doing with solr is having all indexes defined by the librarians, in Koha itself !
20:57 thd hdl: What is hardcoded?
20:58 chris paul_p: no one is saying solr is bad
20:58 hdl zebra configuration
20:58 chris BUT DONT REGRESS US!
20:58 chris im quite yelly today
20:58 paul_p ;-)
20:58 * wizzyrea pats chris
20:58 thd paul_p: I have not said how great that is on the mailing list yet.
20:58 chris but i feel like things are very simple but people are commited to making them hard
20:58 hdl you told you would go to work...
20:58 paul_p we fully agree with z3950 issue
20:58 chris new featurs = good
20:58 chris regressions = bad
20:58 thd paul_p: Empowering ordinary users is great.
20:59 chris new feature + regressions = still bad
20:59 hdl new features + bug fixes + regression ?
20:59 paul_p ok, definetly = I go to bed & chris, go to work ;-) (& hdl go to bed too I suggest. thd, you do what you want ;-) )
20:59 chris still bad
20:59 hdl facets are broken.
21:00 thd paul_p, hdl : I have been researching JZKit thoroughly.
21:00 hdl indexing is really.... kind of broken too.
21:00 paul_p hdl: stop & head to your bed. we will organize another meeting on IRC for that. and I think we will agree. That's not what I fear the most !
21:00 chris i still think the dual path is the way to go, and we deprecate zebra when solr provides everything it does and more
21:01 hdl And z3950 searching is not open on standard configuraiton
21:01 thd paul_p: What do you fear the most?
21:01 gmcharlt agreed - non-ICU zebra, although more tedious to config, is not subject to the same sorts of problems that you are running into
21:01 thd hdl: Not open?
21:02 paul_p thd, forgetting to look at my saviour. But that's not related to Koha ;-)
21:02 hdl it is in socket
21:02 wizzyrea I think he means available
21:02 wizzyrea or not
21:02 hdl not on tcp
21:03 thd hdl: Is that not standard for Z39.50 servers in some manner?
21:03 * hdl don't know
21:03 hdl thd:  have you been playing with JZKit ?
21:04 thd hdl: I have learnt more from studying the JZKit source code than from answers from Knowledge Integration.
21:04 thd hdl: I do not know how to set it up because there is no documentation.
21:04 thd hdl: Creating documentation will cost money.
21:05 thd hdl: There is also some work to be done on the code perhaps.
21:06 thd hdl: I am still waiting for further response from Knowledge Integration.
21:06 jwagner left #koha
21:06 hdl We did set one instance running
21:06 thd hdl: Initially when using the Knowledge Integration web form to ask about documentation I had no response.
21:07 thd hdl: Where?
21:07 hdl iirc. But maybe it was actually on a local machine.
21:08 hdl I saw that.
21:08 thd hdl: Did you note the dependency on CQL-Java from Index Data?
21:09 hdl I have not dived into the code actually.
21:09 hdl But it would look quite a sensible dependency...
21:09 thd hdl: It is all one circular path in the small world of free software library code.
21:09 hdl And I think that Indexdata will maintain that.
21:10 hdl (better than zebra hopefully)
21:10 thd hdl: It is newer.
21:11 thd Index Data recommend JZKit for Java, however, JZKit is missing many features for good Z39.50/SRU.
21:11 hdl namely ?
21:11 robinHome left #koha
21:11 thd I have not had a direct answer about some questions yet from Knowledge Integration.
21:12 munin New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 5003: Can not search for organisation by name <[…]5139f844870234ccc>
21:12 thd hdl: I should not discuss prematurely which is why I have not written more completely on the list but I will state what I have not yet found.
21:14 thd hdl: I have not yet identified support for @or @not or any non Bib-1 non-use attributes such as phrase searching which is a type 2 attribute.
21:15 hudsonbot Starting build 136 for job Koha_Master (previous build: SUCCESS)
21:15 hdl looking forward to your hints.
21:16 chris_n !hudson botsnack cookie
21:16 hudsonbot chris_n: yummy! I really like that cookie
21:16 thd hdl: My greatest hope is that Index Data would work together with Knowledge Integration to develop a solution but that would probably cost too much.
21:16 wizzyrea !hudson botsnack cheetos
21:16 hudsonbot wizzyrea: you're so kind to me! I just love cheetos!
21:16 nengard joined #koha
21:18 cait !hudsonbog botsnack carrots
21:18 hudsonbot cait did you mean me? Unknown command 'bog'
21:18 hudsonbot Use !hudsonhelp to get help!
21:18 cait oh
21:18 thd hdl: We also have Simple Server but that requires much work.
21:18 cait !hudsonbot botsnack carrots
21:18 hudsonbot cait did you mean me? Unknown command 'bot'
21:18 hudsonbot Use !hudsonhelp to get help!
21:18 wizzyrea cait: there you go being all healthy
21:18 wizzyrea !hudson botsnack carrots
21:18 hudsonbot wizzyrea: thanks a lot! om nom nom. I really like that carrots
21:18 cait yeah - but know I have to eat them myself
21:19 cait ah, you saved me :)
21:19 * thd needs to visit the doctor again :(
21:20 wizzyrea thd: hope you feel better soon
21:20 wizzyrea left #koha
21:20 thd good evening hdl and paul_p
21:20 thd good evening wizzyrea
21:20 hdl have a nice day
21:20 wizzyrea joined #koha
21:20 hdl feel better.
21:21 thd hdl: I have been feeling better and then whatever it is comes back ;(
21:21 cait yes, get better
21:21 thd good evening #koha
21:21 hdl thd: bad.
21:22 thd is now known as thd-away
21:22 wizzyrea jcamins_a: "assiduously" i like it.
21:24 Elwell Q - which plugin does munin use to announce commits?
21:26 gmcharlt Elwell: the RSS plugin
21:29 Elwell ah OK figures.
21:29 gmcharlt trying to do something?
21:30 Elwell possibly - thinking about hacking my own bot to add some twitter pulling (there's an abandoned supybot plugin and a standalone twitter bot) but using RSS may save me a pile of pain as I already use RSS to pull in planet updates
21:33 hudsonbot Project Koha_Master build #136: SUCCESS in 18 min:[…]/Koha_Master/136/
21:33 hudsonbot Katrin Fischer: Bug 5003: Can not search for organisation by name
21:33 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5003 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, katrin.fischer, NEW, Can not search for organisation by name
21:48 * cait hums happily
21:53 chris heh
21:56 * robin suspects poor grounding.
21:57 wizzyrea lol robin
21:59 chris hdl: still around? the first mail from savitra
21:59 chris Ability to link to items belong to host                              records from a analytical record
21:59 chris im going to reject for bad copyright
21:59 chris well hopefully colin will for me
22:00 hudsonbot Starting build 137 for job Koha_Master (previous build: SUCCESS)
22:00 chris but im pretty sure you didnt write it
22:00 chris +# Copyright 2009 BibLibre
22:00 hdl left #koha
22:01 robin that looks like a no :)
22:01 chris :)
22:02 munin New commit(s) kohagit: Fix bug on with switch statement <[…]19556d927d875cf97>
22:04 cait hm, that's something we wanted to talk about, when do we change copyright statements and how do we do it - I think my changes were too small until now, but still curious about it
22:05 * chris_n counts 5 occurances of perl's switch still in the code
22:05 chris i think there is a patch in the wild from colin
22:05 chris_n rather grep does
22:05 chris im going to find and apply
22:05 robin cait: my thinking is that anything beyond a trivial change, you should add yourself to the copyright.
22:05 * chris_n wonders why it has not been a problem before now
22:06 chris i agree with robin
22:06 chris chris_n: it is most certainly deprecated and we shouldnt be using it
22:06 chris_n oh, I agree
22:06 cait so, what is a trivial change?
22:06 wizzyrea so something like that entire rewrite I did of the install.debian
22:06 wizzyrea I should be on that
22:06 chris yes wizzyrea
22:06 chris_n I'm just wondering about the problematic nature of it
22:06 chris cait: spacing
22:06 * chris_n runs perl 10
22:06 cait hm
22:07 cait take my last 2 patches as example - should I have changed something for those?
22:07 robin cait: yeah, or a typo fix or something I'd consider trivial
22:07 cait I think the second is really too small, perhaps the first? but touching a lot of files
22:07 cait with very small changes
22:07 chris it is changing functionality
22:07 robin there's no hard boundry, but I think as soon as you change behaviour, that's non-trivial
22:07 wizzyrea myself or my institution?
22:07 chris id put parts copyright you
22:07 chris wizzyrea: i dunno know your rules
22:08 robin wizzyrea: it depends on many things
22:08 wizzyrea k
22:08 chris thats between you and your organisation i suspect
22:08 robin wizzyrea: work for hire, for example/
22:08 wizzyrea depends on many things I understand. ;)
22:08 robin and that also varies by jurisdiction.
22:08 wizzyrea I suspect since it was done on their time, NEKLS should take the copyright,
22:08 wizzyrea which is fine by me
22:08 robin yeah, that's a reasonable approach.
22:09 robin I think it says in my contract that by default things are copyright catalyst.
22:09 wizzyrea not sure I have such a statement in the conditions of my employment
22:09 cait I think nobody has thought about putting something in my contract
22:09 wizzyrea but, it's a courtesy nonetheless
22:10 robin so I put that as the copyright, and usually note somewhere that it was me that wrote it, more to help enquiries from people.
22:10 robin wizzyrea: yeah, in that case it depends on what the law sets as the default for where you are. My conjecture would be that in the US it's copyright your employer by default, in the EU possibly not.
22:10 wizzyrea yea, that seems right something like parts copyright 2010 Northeast Kansas Library System (Liz Rea)
22:11 chris yeah
22:12 cait uh, will have to ask someone at work
22:12 chris that would be just fine
22:13 nengard left #koha
22:15 hudsonbot Starting build 26 for job Koha_3.2.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
22:19 hudsonbot Project Koha_Master build #137: SUCCESS in 19 min:[…]/Koha_Master/137/
22:19 hudsonbot Frédéric Demians: Fix bug on with switch statement
22:20 hudsonbot Starting build 138 for job Koha_Master (previous build: SUCCESS)
22:20 chris heh
22:20 chris hudson is getting a workout
22:22 munin New commit(s) kohagit: Merge remote branch 'kc/master' into new/bug_5105 <[…]2c34e78200d05af61> / Bug 5105 - Remove use of depreciated Switch module <[…]2a9f8206a206027a3>
22:23 cait time to sleep
22:23 cait good night all!
22:23 robin bye!
22:23 chris night cait
22:24 cait left #koha
22:36 hudsonbot Project Koha_3.2.x build #26: SUCCESS in 21 min:[…]ob/Koha_3.2.x/26/
22:36 hudsonbot * Katrin Fischer: Bug 5003: Can not search for organisation by name
22:36 hudsonbot * Frédéric Demians: Fix bug on with switch statement
22:40 hudsonbot Project Koha_Master build #138: SUCCESS in 20 min:[…]/Koha_Master/138/
22:40 hudsonbot Colin Campbell: Bug 5105 - Remove use of depreciated Switch module
22:41 cfouts chris: you mentioned during the meeting you'd had a change of preference for using an ORM, is that correct?
22:42 chris no i never was for a full ORM implementation
22:43 chris but i might be persuaded on that, but certainly not before we are running under a persistent environment
22:44 cfouts oh, interesting. I had misunderstood you previously, then,.
22:44 chris im for removing our dependence on mysql
22:44 cfouts I see
22:44 chris an ORM is one way of doing that
22:44 chris but at this point, it would do more harm than good
22:44 cfouts the latest in that camp is adding further motivation
22:44 chris I do like DBIx::Class::Schema though
22:44 chris a lot
22:45 cfouts what about it?
22:45 chris and want to move to that, rather than a .sql file and
22:45 chris its database agnostic
22:45 chris using it, i made a schema from a running koha on mysql
22:45 chris and deployed it on postgres
22:45 chris and it just worked
22:46 chris course it barfed when i tried loading in the sysprefs (because we have some mysqlisms in there) but those are easily fixed
22:46 trea left #koha
22:46 chris[…]hema/
22:46 chris is what i really like
22:47 chris i *think* we can use it to get rid of the number clashing we face doing database versioning now
22:47 chris or at least make it less likely
22:47 cfouts that's a hard problem.
22:48 cfouts reducing the number of version increments would help
22:48 cfouts I've heard about the dbic versioning capacity but haven't looked into it
22:48 cfouts I'm concerned about its speed
22:48 chris_n +1 # reducing/easing db versioning
22:48 cfouts dbic, not the versioning
22:49 chris like i say, im not convinced on a total ORM
22:49 chris but we can still use the schema part without using dbic anywhere else
22:49 chris and i do like that about it a lot
22:49 cfouts can you explain that?
22:50 chris you can just create and deploy schemas
22:50 chris and not have to use anything else
22:50 cfouts oh, I see.
22:51 chris it doesnt lock you into using dbic for your db access everywhere like say something like tangram does
22:52 chris sometimes the ORM does daft things, so its nice to be able to choose where to use it
22:52 thd-away is now known as thd
22:53 thd slef: are you back?
22:53 chris its midnight, so i doubt it
22:54 chris or at least 11pm
22:54 chris :)
22:54 cfouts the two I've looked at enable the user to do direct SQL without much issue, so that doesn't seem to be much of a problem
22:55 thd he had stated that he might be back at a time which would be half an hour ago.
22:55 cfouts the speed issue is difficult, though. I don't think we can deprecate running Koha as a CGI.
22:55 chris yeah
22:55 chris the speed issue is why we dont use ORM on any of our big sites here
22:55 chris (not koha sites)
22:55 chris but things like etc
22:56 chris not that i ever expect a koha site to get a fraction of the traffic .. itd be nice if libraries got that popular :-)
22:57 cfouts wily-nily database updates need to be reigned in somehow, though
22:57 chris yup
22:57 robin is 952$x considered repeatable?
22:57 chris pass
22:58 robin hmm. It maps to a DB field, so perhaps not.
22:58 sekjal robin:  no, not repeatable
22:58 sekjal according to the MARC framework
22:59 robin oh, I didn't think of looking there. Ta.
22:59 cfouts interesting that using DBIC only for schema management would not conflict with using Rose::DB or another ORM for runtime.
22:59 chris *nod*
22:59 chris im proposing only getting hte schema part going for 3.4
23:00 hudsonbot Starting build 27 for job Koha_3.2.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
23:00 chris with the idea it wont stop anything else, and will at least move us quite a bit closer to not being chained to one db engine
23:01 * chris_n would love to see some other's do testing over MariaDB
23:01 chris_n that one is very much within grasp
23:02 chris drizzle is pretty neat too
23:02 cfouts I'm potentially going to be doing testing against PerconaDB
23:02 chris_n one of my dev install is running over maria with about 30k records in it
23:03 chris im assuing percona is gpl
23:03 chris but their website doesnt say
23:03 cfouts not sure
23:03 cfouts it has enhanced instrumentation
23:05 chris i hate sites that dont put up license info in a easy place
23:05 chris i shouldnt have to download the tarball to find out :)
23:05 chris All Percona software is available for download and unlimited usage at no charge, released for free under open source licenses. Percona does not adhere to any "dual licensing" or "community vs. enterprise" software pricing strategies. There is only one version of all Percona software, and that version is always free.
23:06 chris so im guessing still gpl :)
23:06 chris sounds like they have learnt well from the lessons of mysql :)
23:07 * chris is now curious and its lunchtime so ill eyeball the source
23:07 chris_n maria uses XtraDB as well
23:07 cfouts in that vein, they recently issued an elaboration: http://www.mysqlperformanceblo[…]s-to-mysql-users/
23:08 chris_n it sure sounds like there is some very low hanging fruit here to be had in multi-db support
23:09 chris yeah
23:10 chris percona seems cool
23:10 chris as does drizzle
23:10 chris and maria
23:10 chris drizzle isnt a drop in replacement of course
23:10 chris_n nice writeup
23:10 chris
23:11 chris_n cfouts: if percona is as drop-in as maria, you can leave your db's in place
23:11 cfouts that's what I'm hoping.
23:11 * chris_n did and maria cranked right up without a hitch
23:11 chris_n very nice imho
23:11 cfouts though we're still using predominantly mysql 5.0
23:11 chris gpl2
23:12 chris according to their source
23:12 chris_n that fits nicely into the picture
23:12 chris_n bbl
23:18 hudsonbot Project Koha_3.2.x build #27: SUCCESS in 18 min:[…]ob/Koha_3.2.x/27/
23:18 hudsonbot Chris Cormack: Merge remote branch 'kc/master' into new/bug_5105
23:18 chris sekjal: responded to your email
23:19 chris and added 2 more rules
23:20 sekjal great, chris, thanks!
23:25 irma left #koha
23:41 cfouts left #koha
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