IRC log for #koha, 2010-11-11

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:04 brendan_l left #koha
00:13 sekjal left #koha
00:42 Genji joined #koha
00:43 Genji hiya.. whats the best way to log in a user so their session gets created, and then force them to make a selection, before they reach the search page?
00:45 Genji and that selection gets saved into their session?
01:05 chris no idea Genji
01:05 chris nengard++
01:06 Genji my idea of doing it inside .. doesn't seem to have worked.
01:15 bob joined #koha
01:16 bob hi, is there a fix/patch for the broken 'new' patron button in koha 3.2?
01:18 bob or is not working for me due to certain needed admin settings?
01:19 brendan have you created patron categories ?
01:20 bob yep
01:20 bob there are 3 categories
01:21 brendan hmm...  what browser are you using?
01:21 bob ff 3.6.7
01:22 bob there are existing patrons set up as this worked fine when the koha was 3.0
01:22 bob but has stopped working on upgrade to 3.2
01:23 * bob tries with a diff browser
01:23 chris yeah that doesnt happen normally
01:23 chris what user are you logged in as?
01:24 bob the main one - same login as db
01:24 bob hmm, doesn't seem to work for me in chrome either
01:25 chris yeah you should never do that (except to make a real user and make that a superlibrarian) to start
01:25 chris but i dont think that is causing your problem
01:25 bob i noted in the koha list someone else had the same issue
01:26 bob and owen mentioned a patch - but the link was to anther issue
01:26 chris im pretty sure jo would be ringing me constantly if they couldnt add borrowers :)
01:26 bob indeed :)
01:27 bob so it is odd - cause the koha i upgraded was a clean 3.0 (no hacks)
01:27 bob to a 3.2
01:27 bob so it has me stumped
01:28 bob is the 'new' button worked by javascript?
01:29 chris it should be a dropdown
01:29 chris when you click on it
01:29 bob ah nothing drops down
01:29 chris you should get a list of patron categories
01:29 chris you might want to just check them
01:29 chris /cgi-bin/koha/admin/
01:30 bob i have 3
01:30 bob and they look ok
01:30 chris click on one of them
01:30 chris what category type is it?
01:31 bob one is adult
01:31 bob one is child and 3rd is staff
01:31 chris right, try just saving it
01:31 chris for kicks
01:31 chris see if that makes any difference
01:31 bob nope
01:31 ray joined #koha
01:34 brendan the new button IRC uses the YUI package - is that right chris?
01:35 ray good day!
01:35 brendan bob what do you have set for your system preference -->  yuipath
01:36 ray is there a possiblity to add an image link inside the link section of the opac? how?
01:36 bob brendan - where will i find that?
01:36 brendan look in your global system preferences and you can search those too - search for yui
01:37 bob ta
01:37 bob says 'included with koha'
01:40 brendan sorry out of thoughts
01:45 bob chatting to chris in another window - he recons my setup is spazzing on returning the lists of patrons for the 'new' button fro some reason
01:48 chris yeah
01:48 chris ray: and have it show as an image?
01:48 chris like in the 856u field of the MARC?
01:50 ray left #koha
02:01 sekjal joined #koha
02:15 * jcamins_a looks at the scrollback and gives up
02:16 ray joined #koha
02:17 ray good day!
02:17 jcamins_a Good evening.
02:17 jcamins_a is now known as jcamins
02:18 thd chris: I had asked the wrong question of hdl earlier
02:18 ray is koha already capable of sending circulation notices upon installation?
02:19 thd chris: Had hdl described the conditions under which an ordinary search produces no result set from Zebra?
02:19 ray will I configure it first to send notices?
02:20 jcamins ray: I don't really know anything about this, but I do know you have to have an smtp server set up.
02:21 jcamins Something like Postfix.
02:21 chris ray: yeah and some cronjobs
02:21 chris thd: not that im aware of
02:21 johnindep joined #koha
02:21 ray oops... a bit tricky
02:22 thd chris: there is a general case of failure for no record set when using ICU but I think that is small or we all would have quit Zebra long ago
02:23 richard thd: anthony mao might have some info on that. i saw his instructions for setting up koha for chinese = nozebra plus a change to the search script
02:23 ray could you give sites which i can use as references?
02:24 thd richard: he was avoiding Zebra for Chinese?
02:24 richard yep
02:24 chris ray: you know how to set up a mailserver under linux?
02:24 richard thd: i think i've got a url to his set up in an email somewhere
02:24 richard i'll see if i can hunt it up
02:25 ray i don't know.. can i use apt-get in command line? or synaptic?
02:25 jcamins ray:
02:25 jcamins It doesn't matter if you're on Debian or Ubuntu. The instructions will help. :)
02:26 ray ok
02:26 thd richard: I have had problems searching some Japanese Z39.50 servers using Yaz but I presumed a problem at the server and not with Yaz as other Japanese Z39.50 servers searched using Yaz had no problem.
02:26 chris and then in misc/cronjobs/
02:26 chris there is a crontab.example file
02:26 chris (in koha)
02:27 chris the SEND EMAILS line
02:27 ray ok thank you very much!
02:27 chris and the environment variables .. .plus the rebuild_zebra one are probably the ones you care about the most
02:28 richard thd: here's his instructions for installing koha for chinese -
02:28 richard i think changes to as well
02:29 richard
02:32 jcamins Well that's absurd.
02:32 * jcamins just finished catching up on Koha e-mail
02:32 chris which bit?
02:33 chris it was a bit of an absurd day
02:33 thd richard: I think the core problem which Anthony Mao had been addressing is the form lack of any Unicode support in Zebra.  Anthony Mao could not use Zebra originally and may never have tried properly later.
02:33 jcamins The bit by our favorite, and highly active...
02:33 jcamins wait...
02:33 jcamins our favorite...
02:33 thd s/form/former/
02:34 chris ahh yeah, that was absurd, ... both of the mails
02:34 richard thd: that could well be right.
02:35 thd richard: I had contacted him about the need to add Unicode support to Zebra when fredericd had raised it as an issue.
02:36 thd richard: Anthony Mao had moved on without Zebra and was less interested than he might have been otherwise in a Unicode fix for Zebra.
02:38 richard right. i guess if you have got a system that works for you, it takes the pressure/need off for changing it.
02:38 chris chris_n++
02:38 thd The bugs in the ICU implementation may be in Yaz which would be much worse than merely a problem in Zebra,
02:39 thd We need Yaz as a Z39.50/SRU client because we have no other such client with Perl bindings.
02:41 * chris_n will now go and bite his tongue
02:53 chris heh
02:54 chris thd: i dont think they are
02:54 chris but thats just conjecture
02:54 chris a LOT of libraries, including library of congress use yaz
02:55 chris (yaz-proxy sits in front of their voyager to make the z3950 actually work)
02:55 thd chris: yes of course, and I have tested Yaz greatly or so I thought for character set support
02:56 thd chris: I merely saw something about the ICU code being in Yaz
02:56 thd Maybe Yaz never uses the ICU code on its own.
02:56 chris i still feel like most of our problesm with zebra
02:56 chris are actually problems with C4/Search
02:57 thd That could be.
02:57 pianohack joined #koha
02:57 thd It would be very expensive to hire Index Data to fix a problem which was actually in Koha and not in Index Data code.
02:57 chris heya college boy
02:57 chris :)
02:57 pianohack Hey chris!
02:58 chris indeed
02:58 sekjal evening, pianohack!
02:58 chris thd: and C4/Search is broken in numerous other ways, id still love to see that rewritten for 3.4
02:58 pianohack Tomorrow's lecture is on not getting "structure" and "version" confused
02:59 chris ohh good timing :)
02:59 * chris_n thought gmcharlt had taken on the C4::Search rewrite task :)
02:59 thd pianohack: where have you matriculated?
02:59 pianohack thd: School of Mines here in colorado. Fun school, though it keeps me pretty busy :)
03:00 pianohack Lots of other geeky people, so much more fun than a normal college
03:00 chris chris_n: he volunteered, he may have stopped with the crazy pills and reconsidered though :)
03:00 chris apparently ppl pour salt on desks there a lot
03:00 pianohack chris: right, I was going to say, maybe he decided to join sisyphus at a different rock
03:00 pianohack Hahahahaha
03:00 pianohack Yes
03:00 pianohack One girl did the salt, the other did the... scenery
03:01 chris hehe
03:02 brendan heya pianohack
03:02 thd pianohack: KohaCon 2006 was in École Nationale Supérieure des Mines de Paris
03:02 pianohack Hey brendan
03:02 brendan woohoo - I got it right this time too
03:02 pianohack thd: Oh, wow
03:02 chris yeah i gots pictures to proove it
03:02 pianohack brendan: You can't get it quite right, because of the IRC name length gestapo, but that's close enough ;)
03:02 chris -o
03:03 brendan ok pianohacker (I liked that one too)
03:03 pianohack brendan: How's it going?
03:03 brendan going great
03:03 brendan no sure if you know or knew we've got a baby girl on the way in december
03:03 thd pianohack: ENSMP was one of the earliest customers of paul_p
03:04 pianohack Our school of mines isn't quite so lucky, stuck on exlibris
03:04 chris
03:04 chris brendan: you might want to comment
03:04 pianohack Academic library, though, they tend to be a bit conservative
03:04 chris So  == == Koha 3.2 (with some additional patches that ByWater has uploaded).
03:05 chris isnt quite right :)
03:05 chris that would be 3.3.0
03:05 brendan doesn't seem to be - will have to go and read it
03:05 thd ENSMP has a head librarian with very broad views
03:05 chris yeah at the mo its a confusinating post :)
03:05 sekjal dang it
03:06 chris i think she means
03:06 chris master is running
03:06 chris which is 3.3 .. i may even do a 3.3.x release
03:07 chris probably will at 5 montsh
03:07 chris
03:07 sekjal I was the one who explained versioning to her
03:07 sekjal she was curious about what version the ByWater demo is on
03:07 chris leading up to 3.4 (instead of alphas and betas)
03:07 sekjal we've got it on HEAD currently
03:07 chris yeah
03:07 sekjal so
03:07 chris so 3.3
03:07 brendan heh - yeah it's 3.3
03:08 chris i mean its currently pretty darn close to 3.2
03:08 chris but it does have a couple of new features already
03:08 sekjal we have NOT loaded any additional patches
03:08 sekjal it's just pure Koha
03:08 brendan heh - Linux 2.6.24-24-xen
03:08 chris *sigh*
03:08 chris its even more confusinating them
03:08 brendan I guess a long time ago I screwed with the hostnames
03:09 chris id ask her to take it down i think
03:09 brendan (wonder if that goes anywhere)
03:09 chris or fix it ;)
03:09 sekjal I'll message her
03:09 chris
03:09 chris hehe
03:10 chris_n g'night
03:10 brendan I feel that my father should by such a domain
03:10 brendan night chris_n
03:10 chris night chris_n
03:11 wizzyrea_ joined #koha
03:11 chris its wizzyrea_ !
03:11 wizzyrea_ hi :)
03:11 brendan heya wizzyrea_
03:11 wizzyrea_ how is everybody
03:12 jcamins Hello wizzyrea_.
03:12 richard hi wizzyrea
03:12 jcamins Why did I say "assiduously"?
03:12 wizzyrea_ "follow the directions assiduously and you should have few issues"
03:13 chris heh
03:13 robin well, it's correct use of the word
03:13 jcamins Ah.
03:13 jcamins Right.
03:13 jcamins I knew I had used the word recently, I just couldn't remember when.
03:14 wizzyrea_ I just appreciated its usage
03:14 wizzyrea_ less lol and more yay
03:14 jcamins Your remark sounded complimentary, I just had no idea when I'd said it.
03:15 wizzyrea_ < english major :P
03:15 * jcamins too
03:18 chris well although the day started retarded
03:18 chris i think that the work on commenting on rfcs,  and the proposed rules redeemed it somewhat
03:19 wizzyrea_ woooot!
03:19 chris im certainly less depressed now than i was during hte meeting
03:19 jcamins chris: you should use my strategy for depressing meetings... get lost about ten minutes in, and just give up on the scrollback.
03:19 chris and because i have an instinctual urge never to be too serious
03:20 chris[…]pport_for_NORMARC
03:20 thd chris: There are too many other things about which to be depressed :)
03:21 wizzyrea_ lol
03:21 jcamins chris: my cat says if you want to make the world a happier place, you could send him a Kiwi sheep to play with. He's sure it would be a great toy. :)
03:21 chris heh
03:22 chris i suspect that soon people will be saying, why did we want chris c to comment, hes a dick
03:22 chris[…]k:EAN_reading_RFC
03:22 wizzyrea_ lol
03:22 wizzyrea_ ugh what is wrong with stupid yahoo's openid's lately
03:23 wizzyrea_ half the time it doesn't work
03:23 * wizzyrea_ stomps and pouts
03:23 chris oh yeah, i noticed that
03:23 chris we should make a koha-community openid server
03:23 wizzyrea_ idea ever
03:23 ray where can i adjust the rental charge in koha?
03:23 * jcamins has an even better idea!
03:24 wizzyrea_ follow the recipe?
03:24 chris ray: on the itemtypes page
03:24 jcamins Let's find out who has the time to set up the openid server, and make them fix bugs in Koha. :D
03:24 chris in administration
03:24 chris or, it might be the circulation rules
03:24 chris its on the the admin page anyway :)
03:24 ray ok tnx!
03:24 jcamins wizzyrea_: follow the recipe? What fun is that?
03:25 wizzyrea_ have you seen ratatouille?
03:25 pianohack left #koha
03:25 jcamins wizzyrea_: nope.
03:25 chris
03:25 wizzyrea_ itypes
03:25 wizzyrea_[…]?ch=x2959#AEN3047
03:25 chris easy peasy
03:25 jcamins I was told I'd enjoy it, though.
03:25 wizzyrea_ you would it's cute
03:26 wizzyrea_ not just a movie for kids, though kids seem to love it
03:26 wizzyrea_ anyway
03:29 pianohack joined #koha
03:29 wizzyrea_ ph! <big hug> missed you at kohacon
03:48 pianohack Hallo wizzyrea
03:49 jcamins Hey, there's a new version of umlaut out!
03:49 jcamins Shiny!
03:53 richard left #koha
04:00 Oak joined #koha
04:01 Oak \o
04:03 wizzyrea_ hi oak
04:03 Oak hiya wizzyrea_
04:05 sekjal goodnight, #koha
04:05 sekjal left #koha
04:10 pianohack left #koha
04:18 jcamins Good night, #koha
04:18 jcamins is now known as jcamins_a
04:24 chris Its the twilight area, europe still asleep north america about to sleeo
04:27 wizzyrea_ oooeeeoooo
04:28 chris Hehe
04:28 chris India should be on soon
04:29 chris Amit kmkale indradg etc
04:37 Oak left #koha
04:51 bob left #koha
04:58 brendan ah time to engage vpn catch you all in a little bit
05:01 brendan blocked - so I'm still here ;)
05:15 indradg left #koha
05:18 indradg joined #koha
05:36 indradg good morning #kohs
05:36 indradg oops
05:36 indradg #koha
05:37 * indradg can't believe he actually fell asleep when gmcharlt was about to move to agenda item #4 :(
05:39 chris hehe
05:39 chris you can read the logs
05:39 chris what was #4?
05:39 indradg chris, TC
05:40 * indradg reading logs
05:50 chris ah yeah,you didnt miss much :)
05:55 ray left #koha
06:06 cait joined #koha
06:07 cait hi #koha
06:07 chris hiya cait
06:09 bigbrovar joined #koha
06:09 indradg hi cait
06:10 wizzyrea_ left #koha
06:11 cait hi indradg
06:14 brendan heya cait and indradg
06:14 cait hi brendan
06:14 indradg hi brendan
06:14 cait isn't this a strange time for you?
06:15 brendan not really
06:15 brendan it's 10:30 ;)
06:15 cait oh
06:21 cait 7:30 am here
06:21 cait hm 7:37
06:22 brendan heh
06:22 chris hmm speaking strange
06:22 brendan yeah I'm in a little bit late tonight
06:22 chris i dont really understand this
06:22 brendan I should be here for a long time more
06:22 chris[…]Con2011_Proposals
06:23 cait aq
06:23 cait aw
06:24 cait going without my koha friends for another year?
06:24 chris yeah
06:24 chris i think if you cant make it, it shouldnt be a reason not to have one
06:25 brendan agreed or maybe others who didn't make will be able to make that one
06:25 chris exactly
06:25 cait I think the costs will vary each year, nz flight costs was probably the most expensive from europe this time, but england would be much cheaper for us
06:25 chris yeah, usually we lose
06:25 chris lost to france, lost to usa
06:25 cait you said you will not organise another kohacon!
06:25 chris its cheaper for pretty much everyone else
06:25 chris yeah i dont mind travelling
06:26 cait perhaps australia 2012? :)
06:26 chris :)
06:26 chris i was hoping india 2012
06:26 cait indian food... ok, I will work on that
06:26 cait ;)
06:27 chris :)
06:28 brendan yeah I love india
06:41 pianohack joined #koha
06:46 indradg yeah india wont be a bad place for 2012
06:47 indradg around late nov / early dec when its cooler
06:47 indradg cait, brendan chris ^^^
06:47 cait cooler sounds good :)
06:48 indradg @wunder new delhi
06:48 munin indradg: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 26.0�C (12:00 PM IST on November 11, 2010). Conditions: Smoke. Humidity: 42%. Dew Point: 12.0�C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Falling).
06:48 indradg @wunder bangalore
06:48 munin indradg: The current temperature in Bangalore, India is 26.0�C (11:30 AM IST on November 11, 2010). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 62%. Dew Point: 20.0�C.
06:48 brendan @wunder 93117
06:48 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 14.3�C (11:01 PM PST on November 10, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 47%. Dew Point: 3.0�C. Pressure: 30.00 in 1015.8 hPa (Steady). Wind Advisory in effect until 3 am PST Thursday...
06:48 indradg @wunder kolkata
06:48 munin indradg: The current temperature in Kolkata, India is 31.0�C (12:20 PM IST on November 11, 2010). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 46%. Dew Point: 18.0�C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Falling).
06:48 indradg @wunder chennai
06:48 munin indradg: The current temperature in Chennai, India is 29.0�C (11:40 AM IST on November 11, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 79%. Dew Point: 25.0�C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
06:49 indradg @wunder hyderabad
06:49 munin indradg: Error: No such location could be found.
06:49 indradg how nice :P
06:53 paul_p left #koha
06:57 fredericd If I add a regression test on switch use, in which test file should I add it?
07:01 chris fredericd: you might want to look at this
07:01 chris[…]s/heads/git-hooks
07:02 chris the top 2 commits
07:03 chris thats what im running, the git-hook will run all tests that start with 00
07:04 fredericd So a file named 00deprecated.t would do it?
07:04 chris yeah that would be great
07:05 chris i should submit my 00-load.t
07:05 chris it works like this
07:07 fredericd yes it would help to have already this file... thks
07:10 pastebot "chris" at pasted "rorohiko:[git/test-]:~/git/koh" (3 lines) at
07:12 pastebot "chris" at pasted "# Failed test 'use C4::Account" (6 lines) at
07:13 bigbrovar left #koha
07:13 chris so basic syntax errors get caught :) left over conflict markers etc :)
07:16 cait is now known as cait_a
07:17 chris patch sent
07:17 chris if you wanted to signoff on it, that would be great :)
07:18 chris i think with your patch + colins patch, we have killed all the switch statements, so a test to stop them coming back would be great
07:22 mihafan joined #koha
07:22 mihafan hllo
07:22 mihafan hello
07:24 miguelxer left #koha
07:25 Elwell what versions of Perl does koha tolerate?
07:26 Elwell cos I guess changing switch => given / when is probably a bit new
07:27 miguelxer joined #koha
07:27 chris yeah given/when is too new
07:27 chris 3.2 was 5.8
07:28 chris the places we were using switch were trivially rewritten is  if elsif anyway
07:28 chris is=as
07:32 chris personally i think we should be using quantum superpositions :)
07:33 mihafan left #koha
07:34 chris[…]
07:34 chris i love damian conway :)
07:36 indradg left #koha
07:38 Elwell heh
07:55 pianohack left #koha
08:08 Oak joined #koha
08:10 bigbrovar joined #koha
08:12 chris fredericd: thanks for the sign off and the new patch :)
08:16 munin New commit(s) kohagit: Test modules compile <[…]e3a11065f2802d51a>
08:17 magnus joined #koha
08:18 chris hi magnus
08:18 magnus kia ora chris & #koha
08:19 chris wanna learn a new greeting?
08:19 chris when its morning for you, you can say
08:19 chris ata marie
08:20 chris which is 'peaceful morning'
08:21 magnus cool, i'll try and remember that! ;-)
08:21 chris po marie = good night (or peaceful night literal translation)
08:21 chris so now you know the words for morning and night too :)
08:22 magnus thanks
08:22 ray joined #koha
08:22 magnus and kia ora is all around the clock?
08:22 chris yup
08:23 magnus col
08:23 chris ora = life
08:23 magnus cool, even
08:23 chris kia = have/ to have
08:23 chris so you are saying 'have life'
08:24 chris you can use it for hello, or thank you
08:25 magnus ah, yas i was wondering if it was just hello
08:25 magnus s/yas/yes/
08:25 ivanc joined #koha
08:26 munin New commit(s) kohagit: Merge remote branch 'kc/new/bug_5105' into kcmaster <[…]db28ec98c4520c528> / Bug 5105 Regression test for switch statement <[…]1fada5351d0e9c29e>
08:26 ivanc hi #koa
08:26 chris hi ivanc
08:26 hdl joined #koha
08:26 ivanc hi chris
08:30 hudsonbot Starting build 139 for job Koha_Master (previous build: SUCCESS)
08:33 magnus hi ivanc
08:43 ray left #koha
08:49 ivanc hi magnus
08:50 hudsonbot Project Koha_Master build #139: UNSTABLE in 20 min:[…]/Koha_Master/139/
08:50 hudsonbot * Chris Cormack: Test modules compile
08:50 hudsonbot * Frédéric Demians: Bug 5105 Regression test for switch statement
08:50 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5105 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, colin.campbell, ASSIGNED, Switch Module Depreciated in perl 12
08:50 chris !hudson build koha_master now
08:50 hudsonbot chris: job koha_master build scheduled now
08:51 hudsonbot Starting build 140 for job Koha_Master (previous build: UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #138 10 hr ago)
08:52 hdl left #koha
08:56 chris colin++
09:01 miguelxer left #koha
09:05 kmkale joined #koha
09:05 kmkale hi all
09:10 hudsonbot Yippie, build fixed!
09:10 hudsonbot Project Koha_Master build #140: FIXED in 19 min:[…]/Koha_Master/140/
09:12 magnus yay!
09:12 magnus hi kmkale
09:14 chris 1822 tests now
09:17 larsw yay for tests
09:18 kmkale hi magnus chris
09:26 magnus could have been cool to have a graph showing the increase in number of tests over time
09:34 chris hudson has one
09:34 magnus hudson++
09:34 chris but it only goes back the last 7 builds
09:34 magnus ah
09:39 * Elwell starts a pile of POD cleanups
09:39 magnus Elwell++
09:44 chris yay, see if you can add to the coverage
09:44 chris[…]ter/HTML_Report/?
09:46 Elwell what's the metric it uses?
09:47 chris[…]ib/Devel/
09:47 chris and
09:47 chris[…]b/Pod/
09:48 Elwell right now I'm just getting podchecker to run without errors / warnings
09:48 chris that would help too
09:49 chris if you could give some lines of bash
09:49 chris i can make hudson run the podchecker too
09:50 chris magnus: did you see my comment on normarc?
09:51 magnus chris: "I hate MARC so let's add more"? i agree completely! ;-)
09:52 chris :)
09:52 Elwell interesting. 'file' claims alot of the .pm are 'awk script text'
09:53 magnus chris: in my frustration i even started
09:54 chris yep, i saw that :)
09:59 * braedon|h hides marc
10:00 braedon|h leave the poor guy alone! It's not his fault his parents couldn't spell.
10:02 kmkale left #koha
10:05 magnus :-)
10:06 * magnus has to go write some boring docs for a non-koha related project. sigh...
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11:04 Elwell chris: bash to call podchecker:
11:04 Elwell find . -type f | grep -v \.git/ | egrep -i '\.p[lm]$' | xargs podchecker 2>/tmp/pod.err
11:05 Elwell well, 's what I'm using
11:47 nengard joined #koha
12:15 gmcharlt good morning
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12:30 magnus is now known as magnus_a
12:30 nengard morning
12:32 cait_a hi gmcharlt and nengard
12:33 Elwell right, once again I've forgotten the syntax for mailing patches. git commit -a ;????? ; git send email
12:33 Elwell ah format patch
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12:41 gmcharlt Elwell: is there a bug for POD correction?
12:41 Elwell uhm, prob not, want me to open one?
12:42 * cait_a waves to druthb
12:42 gmcharlt Elwell: yeah, please do
12:42 * druthb waves to cait_a.  :)
12:42 gmcharlt I'll add the bug number to your patch's commit messages when I test and sign off on them
12:43 Elwell meh, what was my bugzilla login
12:46 nengard your email address is your username
12:47 Elwell nengard: yeah I remembered password. gmcharlt: 5385
12:47 gmcharlt Elwell: thanks
12:49 gmcharlt what are you using to check the POD?  podchecker?
12:49 Elwell yup
12:50 Elwell and mk1 eyeball to see if perldoc ...... looks reasonable after
12:51 gmcharlt Elwell:
12:51 Elwell ah ok - didn't know about that
12:53 pastebot "gmcharlt" at pasted "for Elwell - shouldn't the line of code be indented two spaces if you're removing the =over?" (11 lines) at
12:57 Elwell =head2 get_heading_type_from_marc
12:57 Elwell meh ooops
12:58 Elwell it is -- are we looking at ./C4/AuthoritiesMarc/ ?
12:59 gmcharlt yep, and I noticed other examples like that in your patch
13:00 gmcharlt doh
13:00 gmcharlt yeah, of course I wouldn't see it if I'm using git show -w
13:00 gmcharlt never mind me
13:01 Elwell phew. Thought I'd done a schoolboy error. Right gotta go AFK for a bit
13:15 Oak[…]0/hardware-check/
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13:28 magnus_a is now known as magnus
13:29 magnus hiya jwagner, sekjal et al
13:29 druthb is now known as al
13:29 al is now known as druthb
13:29 druthb :)
13:29 sekjal morning, magnus, druthb!
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13:31 jwagner Hi all
13:31 * druthb waves to jwagner and magnus and sekjal, serially.
13:32 sekjal morning, jwagner
13:33 * magnus waves to druthb
13:34 chris_n` is now known as chris_n
13:36 kmkale hi jwagner & druthb
13:36 druthb hi, kmkale! :)
13:40 jwagner hi kmkale & everyone
13:44 hudsonbot Starting build 28 for job Koha_3.2.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
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14:03 hudsonbot Project Koha_3.2.x build #28: SUCCESS in 18 min:[…]ob/Koha_3.2.x/28/
14:03 hudsonbot Chris Cormack: Merge remote branch 'kc/new/bug_5105' into kcmaster
14:10 magnus yay!
14:12 cait_a hm?
14:14 magnus just cheering for hudson ;-)
14:17 druthb left #koha
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14:19 cait_a ah, he deserves it :)
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14:36 jcamins_a is now known as jcamins
14:36 * jcamins curses the MTA roundly
14:36 * jcamins also devoutly hopes that everyone else on #koha had a better trip into work than he did
14:36 jcamins Good morning, #koha
14:37 jwagner jcamins, I avoided that problem by working from home today :-)
14:37 jcamins jwagner: smart.
14:37 * druthb had a fine commute, if a little longer than usual.
14:37 jcamins I was actually in a pretty good mood when I left home almost two hours ago.
14:38 jcamins Then it took me an hour to get to Times Square.
14:39 * cait_a hands jcamins a cookie
14:39 jwagner jcamins, not so much smart as just dealing with the horrible head cold I've had since the flight home.  No energy to go in to the office....
14:39 jcamins cait_a++ # for providing cheering cookies :)
14:40 cait_a lol
14:40 slef nengard: I think it would be more help if you updated any non-template-using RFCs to use the template, and put requests for clarification in the page itself, rather than on Talk: - I'm not sure you get notified about the Talk: page if you're Watch-ing the main page.
14:41 slef nengard: what's the submission date for the newsletter?  I'll write the RFC corner if you want if we can get that done and submission date is far enough away.
14:41 nengard not hanging up on you - just about to head into webinar - will talk about how we can do it better when i return in a few hours
14:41 nengard slef the 13th  for newsletter -but this one is all conference stuff
14:41 nengard ttyl
14:41 nengard left #koha
14:42 ivanc by all
14:42 ivanc left #koha
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14:49 jcamins slef: what does tech-ctte mean?
14:49 jcamins Oh, that's the Debian abbreviation for Technical Committee?
14:53 magnus and POC = Proof of Concept?
14:53 cait_a I think so
14:54 jcamins cait_a: what's the _a?
14:54 wizzyrea_ joined #koha
14:54 jcamins With me it means "away," but you're clearly here. ;)
14:54 cait_a hmpf
14:54 cait_a is now known as cait
14:54 cait changed my name when I went back to sleep earlier
14:55 jcamins cait: oh no! Has your cold gotten worse?
14:56 cait it's ok, had a terrible headache when I woke up, but it's much better now
15:13 trea joined #koha
15:14 * chris_n hands cait a cup of hot chocolate
15:14 wizzyrea_ ooooo cocoa
15:15 cait yay
15:15 cait thx chris_n :)
15:15 trea man now i want cocoa, afk
15:15 wizzyrea_ ok, I may be weird, but I loved the cocoa in NZ
15:15 cait omg, I didn't try it there
15:15 cait ah, no, I did
15:15 cait the marshmellows were a bit strange
15:37 wizzyrea_ I don't think I ever got any marshmellows
15:37 wizzyrea_ spud did, he seemed to like them
15:39 cait :)
15:39 jcamins wizzyrea_: and did you ever worry that he wouldn't like a marshmallow?
15:39 jcamins Strange or otherwise? ;)
15:40 wizzyrea_ ^.^ he is like a tiny food vacuum, if it's tasty, and put in front of him, he'll probably eat it
15:40 magnus good on him!
15:40 magnus wizzyrea_: how do you make that face?
15:41 wizzyrea_ ^ . ^
15:41 magnus ^.^
15:41 wizzyrea_ caret dot caret
15:41 magnus a ha
15:41 druthb ^.^ o.O
15:41 cait ok, time to shop for some dinner - bbl!
15:41 cait is now known as cait_a
15:43 magnus colloquy displays it as a face with lots of black hair - hard to tell what it's supposed to convey - hardly lives up to the name of "emoticon"...
15:44 wizzyrea_ supposedly it's the japanese version of :)
15:44 nengard joined #koha
15:46 jcamins Any UNIMARC users around?
15:47 magnus is now known as magnus_a
15:47 slef no, they don't really exist ;-)
15:48 slef They are an imaginary thing sent to torture us.
15:49 jcamins Hm.
15:50 jcamins I'm looking at hdl's patch for UNIMARC support with the analytic code.
15:51 jcamins Is there any implied relationship between the 001 field and the biblionumber?
15:52 jcamins @marc 001
15:52 munin jcamins: The control number assigned by the organization creating, using, or distributing the record. The MARC code for the organization is contained in field 003 (Control Number Identifier). []
15:54 nengard self i'm back ... what was it you wanted me to do? :)
15:54 nengard or slef (not self)
15:55 wizzyrea_ i routinely greet myself
15:57 jcamins cait_a: when you get back from dinner, I have questions about analytics.
15:57 jcamins I'm writing part 1 of my magnum opus on "why you don't *really* want comments from jcamins."
15:58 wizzyrea_ (teehee)
15:58 jcamins (the subtitle is "we can do better!")
16:03 nengard there was something i was gonna do when i finished training - but my brain is still shot and i have no idea what it was .....
16:04 jcamins nengard: something about template-izing non-template RFCs.
16:05 jcamins I think.
16:05 jcamins Didn't cait's analytic code get pushed into a branch on
16:05 nengard hehe -no i mean something for a customer - not the thing slef wanted me to do
16:05 jcamins nengard: oh, okay. In that case, I have no idea.
16:05 nengard hehe
16:05 nengard why not? can't read my mind?
16:06 * jcamins puts on his mindreading hat
16:06 * jcamins tears it off immediately
16:06 jcamins There's too much in your mind! ;)
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16:07 sekjal okay, anyone around got experience working with MARC::Record?
16:08 jcamins sekjal: not much, but I'm always happy to offer guesses. ;)
16:08 sekjal I want to get at a specific instance of a repeatable field in a MARC record
16:09 sekjal or, rather, I want to go through a for loop of all the instances
16:09 sekjal I've got to mix together info that's in the first 852 with info that's in the first 961
16:09 sekjal and second with second, and so on
16:09 sekjal no other linkage, other than order
16:10 jcamins Hm.
16:10 sekjal using field(852) is supposed to return all the matching fields, I think in an array
16:11 chris_n sekjal: I've messed with it, but it has been quite a while ago
16:11 chris_n that sounds right iirc
16:11 jcamins $field852s = $marc->field('852'); $field961s = $marc->field('961')
16:11 jcamins Then use a regular for loop, not a foreach loop.
16:12 * jcamins realizes that he's never used a non-foreach loop in Perl
16:13 sekjal trying that... but getting Can't call method "subfield" on an undefined value
16:13 jcamins Oh, yeah, you need to do some weird dereferencing.
16:13 jcamins Let me check that for you.
16:13 sekjal when I try to access the first subfield I want in the first iteration of the 853
16:13 sekjal ~852
16:15 chris_n I think you have to $field852s->subfield('foo')
16:16 chris_n iirc  $marc->field('852') returns an object
16:16 sekjal a hash ref, yes
16:16 * chris_n was looking for the code he did using that
16:18 jcamins sekjal: you tried $field852s->[$ii]->subfield('a');?
16:18 * jcamins doesn't know why that works, but he does know that it worked for him
16:19 cait_a left #koha
16:19 cait joined #koha
16:19 sekjal get warned it's not an array reference
16:19 chris_n sekjal: fwiw:[…]7ecb7804d8a#l1276
16:20 kmkale joined #koha
16:21 cait I am back
16:21 cait but I am scared of jcamins
16:21 * cait hides
16:21 cait ;)
16:21 sekjal wish I could do this with a foreach...
16:22 chris_n it seems you can
16:22 sekjal if it was just the one field, yes
16:22 sekjal but I need subfields from the first 852 and also from the first 961
16:22 sekjal then second and second, etc etc
16:23 sekjal no linkage between the fields except their order in the record
16:23 sekjal so perhaps do a foreach to dump them into an array?
16:24 jcamins sekjal: you could do it with a foreach and a counter, but you'd still have to deal with the 961.
16:24 jcamins cait: how do your libraries populate the 003 field?
16:25 chris_n sekjal: load them into arrays and then cmp?
16:26 jcamins sekjal: try changint the declaration of $field852s and $field961s to @field852s and @field961s?
16:26 sekjal jcamins: declaring as @ gives undefined value (that was my first plan)
16:27 jcamins Ah. Right.
16:27 cait jcamisn: they don't - it gets populated
16:27 cait DE-576
16:27 cait the isil of our union catalog
16:27 cait @marc 003
16:27 munin cait: The MARC code for the organization whose control number is contained in field 001 (Control Number). []
16:27 cait right
16:27 cait but I think it will get populated automatically with the value in the sys pref
16:27 cait or it should
16:27 jcamins cait: okay, so every library that uses your union catalog has the same 003 field?
16:27 cait yes
16:28 cait this is correct
16:28 chris_n sekjal: you'd have to @subfields = $record->field(852)->subfiields();
16:28 * chris_n thinks
16:28 jcamins If a new library were to join the union catalog, would they have to start using DE-576?
16:28 cait they have their own isil too
16:28 jcamins chris_n: that won't work right if there are more than one 852 fields.
16:28 cait but the source of the 001 is de-576
16:29 cait doesn't count for local titles that they catalog themselves
16:29 chris_n jcamins: in which case you are stuck with foreach
16:29 sekjal $record->field(852) returns something you can use foreach with, but not for
16:29 sekjal so, apparently not an array
16:29 jcamins cait: okay, just checking.
16:29 chris_n you can also pass in a scope of fields
16:29 cait not sure I can explain it good - so keep asking please
16:29 chris_n but that doesn't help here
16:30 chris_n sekjal: it returns an field object
16:30 jcamins cait: no, that's what I thought. I just wanted to make sure I had it right before I said that's how you did it.
16:30 cait ok :)
16:30 sekjal chris_n: It's supposed to be a list of matching field objects
16:30 jcamins sekjal: I don't suppose pop works with $field852s?
16:30 sekjal or just the first one if used in a scalar context
16:31 sekjal jcamins: good question
16:31 cait I think if you download a record from worldcat it will have the worldcat umber in 001 and the org code in 003?
16:32 jcamins cait: yes, I think so.
16:32 cfouts left #koha
16:32 cait the $w fields look different when we get them out of our union catalog: $w(DE-576)idnumber
16:33 cait zebra is not so happy about that, so we kill the org code
16:33 jcamins cait: yeah, that's what I'm responding about.
16:33 cait not sure how you can make zebra work here
16:33 cait and it will get more difficult in the xslt to treat the repeatable $w right
16:34 sekjal okay, going to try it with two foreach and a helper array
16:34 jcamins Amit_G's analytic code currently makes the assumption that everything in the #w is valid, and that's not a safe assumption.
16:34 jcamins It seems to me that we can adjust the index in Zebra to handle that.
16:35 jcamins And, if not, that's a very serious problem.
16:35 jcamins thd: around?
16:36 cait I am not aware that we can do it
16:36 cait but will be happy if we can
16:36 slef wizzyrea brendan chris - would you fix the topic with the new meeting date, please?
16:37 jcamins cait: I don't know how to, but the analytic support can't be added unless that's resolved.
16:37 cait you could make it work with biblionumbers... urgs
16:37 cait nah
16:37 jcamins Well, I mean, it could, but I will agitate against it, because it will completely break our catalog.
16:38 jcamins cait: the analytic support that you implemented is safe.
16:38 cait yeah, it has some problems, I think 001 is not populated for local cataloged records :(
16:38 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha -  Next general meeting on 8 December 2010 at 10:00 UTC+0.  This channel is logged.
16:38 cait oh
16:38 cait jcamins: perhaps you can guide me a bit, when I am looking at the branch
16:39 cait but have to cook some dinner first
16:39 cait jcamins++
16:39 jcamins cait: I thought you already ate.
16:39 cait no, bought food
16:39 cait now I have to cook it
16:40 jcamins When you get back, I have more questions about how you do things.
16:41 jcamins But go eat first.
16:41 cait I have the laptop in the kitchen with me
16:41 cait advantages of a very small apartment
16:41 jcamins Heh.
16:42 jcamins Each of your libraries has a separate catalog, and they download their records from the union catalog, right?
16:42 cait why is my solution save compared to Amit's?
16:42 cait yes, download + using staged marc import every night
16:42 cait using the 001 as field for matching
16:42 jcamins cait: because Amit's shows the items based on 773s.
16:43 cait ?
16:43 jcamins So if something doesn't match with yours, that's an erroneous search.
16:43 jcamins I mean, item as in 952.
16:43 jcamins With his, the patron will be told to look in the completely wrong place.
16:44 cait sorry, I don't get it
16:44 jcamins You know that table with items in the OPAC?
16:44 cait you mean we can't merge both branches because we do things entirely different?
16:44 cait yep
16:44 cait by heart ;)
16:44 jcamins Amit's adds an item to that table based on the 773.
16:44 cait uh
16:44 cait why would you do that?
16:45 jcamins Rather, Amit's takes the item from the host record based on the information in the 773.
16:45 cait ok, say I have a serial and catalog the essays in it
16:45 cait than I will have items on the serial record?
16:45 jcamins Right.
16:45 cait but I can't check them out
16:46 jcamins With Amit's solution, you can.
16:46 cait and where will I store the important information? like pages, title, author etc.?
16:46 jcamins One moment and I'll try and draw a diagram.
16:46 jcamins It's very confusing.
16:46 cait thx jcamins - really glad you are involved in this analytics thing with me :)
16:47 thd jcamins: yes I am here.
16:48 jcamins thd: any idea if it would be possible to index this in Zebra: $w(DE-576)12345 in such a way that Zebra is able to search on just the 12345?
16:48 cait jcamins: I have a feeling we will perhaps need some sys prefs if people have different ideas about analytics support
16:49 gmcharlt cait: I would think so
16:49 gmcharlt it's a broader question, too
16:49 cait gmcharlt: yeah, I have implemented something in the xslt, so that you can add a syspref
16:49 thd jcamins: We should be doing many things like that by creating special records for indexing.
16:49 cait but I have still to programm it
16:49 cait program...
16:49 gmcharlt analytics using the 773 is a subset of more general links among bibs via 7xx fields
16:50 cait at the moment it's hardcoded to 1
16:50 cait it was on my list, but I wanted to have it out there for discussion now
16:50 cait gmcharlt: would you perhaps look at my xslt changes? I know that you know a lot about marc
16:51 thd jcamins: Using XPath based indexing in Zebra would help.
16:51 gmcharlt cait: that's the 4056 pull requests, right?
16:51 jcamins thd: okay, so it's *possible*, at least.
16:51 cait thd: but we ould need to change it to dom indexing for that, is that correct?
16:51 cait gmcharlt: right
16:51 gmcharlt cait: yes, that can be done
16:52 * jcamins gives up on a diagram.
16:52 thd cait: Yes that is correct
16:52 cait it's my first bigger project, so be gentle ;)
16:52 dafydd joined #koha
16:52 cait or nice
16:52 cait whatever is the better word
16:52 thd :)
16:52 * jcamins will write an explanation, and get back to cait in a moment
16:52 thd nice and gentle
16:52 gmcharlt cait: heh.  you make it sound like I have a reputation for eating new committers for lunch
16:52 gmcharlt ...
16:52 gmcharlt don't answer :)
16:53 trea nomnomnom
16:53 cait no, you don't :)
16:53 cait ok, ignore me... I am just a bit nervous about it and want to get it right...
16:53 cait and our libraries really need it to work with our data - so I would be really happy to get it into koha
16:54 * chris_n hopes he tastes bad...
16:55 cait or help build a solution that works for them
16:56 Oak left #koha
16:58 jcamins cait: I'm going to use a conference proceeding (we'll call it Biblionumber 100) as an example. This conference proceeding is one physical volume, and has ten articles (biblionumber 101-110). The record for the conference proceeding (biblionumber 100) has an item record (and a 952 field, we'll call this itemnumber 1) with a barcode so that it can be checked out. With Amit's proposed feature, the ten article records (biblionumbers 101-110) do not have item rec
16:59 cait do not have item records?
16:59 jcamins Right.
16:59 slef oops I hate it when I email lists from work by mistake
16:59 cait hi slef
17:00 cait I like your mails - and I can hear you reading them to me know :)
17:00 jcamins So the record for an article has these variable fields: 100, 245, 650, 773 (and whatever others are relevant).
17:01 thd cait: I read back a little of your discussion.  If you want the Koha biblionumber in 001 you can modify the frameworks accordingly or add a script for record creation which also puts the Koha biblionumber in 001.
17:02 jcamins thd: but biblionumber isn't robust.
17:02 thd cait: Exactly, which is why I was uncertain if we should really put it in 001.
17:03 thd s/cait/jamins/
17:03 thd s/cait/jcamins/
17:03 cait thd: we have a good identifier there
17:03 jcamins thd: I would tend to think we should not, but I was a little confused by hdl's patch.
17:03 cait but I was thinking about other libraries
17:04 thd 001 would be standard but this is Koha which is something short of standard.
17:04 gmcharlt cait: $w for sharing, $0 (or $9) with the Koha biblionumber within the database
17:04 jcamins gmcharlt: okay, that would help.
17:05 gmcharlt e.g., $0 (my_libs_symbol)biblionumber
17:05 gmcharlt would be one way
17:05 cait gmcharlt: that's a nice idea
17:05 thd jcamins: Which patch of hdl's do you mean?
17:05 gmcharlt though with that approach, some additoinal code to help the catalogers maintain the $0 would be probably be good
17:06 jcamins thd:[…]64dbd633cd5a5c4db
17:06 cait at the moment I test for $w and use a text link if it doesn't exist
17:06 jcamins gmcharlt: yes, there would need to be some sort of authority control-type dialog.
17:07 cait we could add $0 there too
17:07 cait but I am not sure I am able to do the cataloging part :(
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17:09 jcamins Well, hopefully that was coherent.
17:09 thd jcamins: That patch has no explicit reference to 001.
17:10 jcamins thd: exactly.
17:10 jcamins The standard says "this should be used for 001," but it's used for the biblionumber.
17:10 jcamins That's why I was confused.
17:11 cait why don't make it an option?
17:11 thd jcamins: For Koha, the appropriate field reference is wherever biblionumber is stored.
17:11 jcamins thd:
17:11 cait to use biblionumbers or 001?
17:11 jcamins $0 is defined in the standard.
17:11 cait thd: I am not happy about that, I think we should stick with the standard - to make data migration easier too
17:12 thd cait: The problem is in the Koha MARC frameworks and not the patch from hdl.
17:13 jcamins thd: the problem is generally in the way that the analytic support is coded.
17:13 jcamins But that's what code review is for. :)
17:13 cait I think I will start looking at the code - but perhaps we should discuss that at a meeting or something
17:14 cait to learn more about how Amit's feature works
17:14 thd jcamins: Aside from whether the biblionumber is in 001 or not does the patch from hdl work?
17:14 jcamins thd: I do not know.
17:14 jcamins My concern is with the analytic code in general. hdl's patch was just the one that made me ask the question about the001.
17:15 thd jcamins: It looks right to me but I am not looking hard for any bug.
17:15 thd biblionumber should be in 001.
17:16 thd The problem with changing it is a need for wide consultation about the need to change every record when updating to a new version of the Koha MARC frameworks.
17:16 jcamins thd: I disagree, but I'm willing to be convinced. Why?
17:16 jcamins thd: oh, are you saying that the frameworks for UNIMARC specify that?
17:17 jcamins I didn't realize that.
17:17 thd jcamins: I think that the Koha UNIMARC frameworks may now use 001 correctly.
17:17 jcamins standard_compliance++
17:17 cait thd: would the 001 field be overwritten with the biblio number?
17:18 cait that would break a lot of things for us
17:18 thd jcamins: If something fundamental is moved in the Koha MARC frameworks everyone's records have to be modified to match the new Koha MARC framework.
17:19 jcamins thd: I think you are responding to an orthogonal issue.
17:19 jcamins thd:[…]09d4789f76a516b72
17:20 jcamins Actually, see my e-mail where I expressed concern. :)
17:20 thd cait: Nothing would be overwritten in old records without a script to overwrite them except if you change the Koha MARC frameworks and load a record into the record editor and save it.
17:20 magnus_a left #koha
17:20 cait thd: ok, thx
17:21 cait so if there is no plugin defined for 001 in the frameworks everything is ok?
17:21 jwagner chiming in late here -- I thought biblionumber went into the 999c by default.  Or am I just looking at an old system?  Putting things into the 001 would screw things up for a lot of sites.
17:21 gmcharlt jwagner: it various depending on the framework
17:21 jcamins jwagner: that's what I thought too.
17:22 cait would break the wohle import for us, but it seems to be ok for now
17:22 jwagner I'm looking at the Koha to MARC mapping.
17:22 gmcharlt for MARC21 users, it is the 999$c
17:22 jwagner Yeah, I don't have a UNIMARC system so I don't know what it uses.
17:22 gmcharlt IIRC, it's different for UNIMARC users
17:22 magnus joined #koha
17:22 jcamins To clarify my concern, I am worried that this branch which has not been merged into master yet makes an unwarranted and dangerous assumption about 001 and biblionumber being the same.
17:22 jwagner OCLC, for example, puts the OCLC control number in the 001, and a lot of our sites use that for matching.
17:23 gmcharlt the theoretical standard approach would be move the 001+003 to the 035 during bib import
17:24 jwagner But there are other numbers in the 035.  Would it matter if there are multiples?
17:24 gmcharlt and do dedupe matching with 001/003 from the incoming record to the 035 of records already in teh database
17:24 gmcharlt again in theory, the value in each 035 is qualified by who assigned the ID
17:24 gmcharlt e.g.,
17:24 gmcharlt 035 $a(OCoLC)123
17:24 gmcharlt 035 $a(some_random_library)ABC444
17:25 gmcharlt of course, practice is more complicated
17:25 jcamins This would require a switch to DOM indexing, per thd's earlier explanation of how indexing that would work.
17:25 * jcamins thinks he'll quickly eat lunch, since a patron is expected in a few minutes
17:25 gmcharlt so I'd be chary of any proposal to change the dfeault mapping of the bilbionumber to the 001 for MARC21 users
17:25 jcamins is now known as jcamins_a
17:25 munin New commit(s) kohagit: Merge remote branch 'kc/new/bug_5386' into kcmaster <[…]9fd40109ccf8a3f8d> / bug 5386: remove dep on Path::Class from t/00-load.t <[…]d9a3087738aa7cab2>
17:26 slef is chary a word?
17:26 cait jwagner: same here for the number from our union catalog - it's the key for mathing imports
17:26 gmcharlt slef: yes
17:26 trea slef: char·y/ˈCHe(ə)rē/Adjective
17:26 trea 1. Cautious; wary.
17:26 trea 2. Cautious about the amount one gives or reveals.
17:26 trea according to teh googlez
17:26 slef trea: don't swear at me ;-)
17:26 slef but live and learn...
17:27 * trea holds his head and weeps
17:27 * cait hands trea a tissue
17:27 trea thx cait
17:28 slef I've got a library whose mysql used only for Koha 3.0.x keeps deadlocking. Anyone seen that?
17:29 hudsonbot Starting build 141 for job Koha_Master (previous build: FIXED)
17:32 thd gmcharlt++ about what should happen when importing records
17:33 jcamins_a is now known as jcamins
17:33 cait lunch already eaten?
17:33 jcamins I eat quickly, yes.
17:33 * cait is still cooking
17:33 thd jwagner: Yes, as I explained moving form 999 $c to 001 would require updating all the records on many systems.
17:34 * jcamins thinks he must have missed something
17:34 cait it's druthb's fault - she mademe hungry for spaghetti bolognese
17:34 thd jwagner: However, I had understood that some LibLime customers were using 001.
17:34 jcamins Did someone propose that it was a *good* idea to put the biblionumber in 001?
17:34 cait jcamins: and store the union catalog/source number in 035
17:34 thd jcamins: I discussed it with kados long ago.
17:35 cait I think we actually have the information doubled up and in 035 too, but have to check some sample records
17:35 jcamins cait: I think storing the union catalog/source in the 035 is a great idea, but that doesn't make putting the biblionumber in the 001 anything other than a terrible idea.
17:35 jcamins IMHO
17:35 jwagner thd, I don't know what some of the inherited sites might be doing -- have to ask cfouts or druthb about that.
17:35 cait I think we can disucss that - but it should not break anything for existing catalogs
17:35 jwagner jcamins, agreed.  I don't want anything to touch the 001.
17:36 cait jcamins: I am with you on that - it would make things more difficult for us too
17:36 thd jcamins: My biggest concern at the time was the easiest way to preserve the previous 001 fields in records without needing to ensure people were using a script using to populate  035.
17:36 cait but as long as we can buid consensus on a way that does not break my import and make it possible to display the linkings in our records, I will be happy
17:37 cait I think using biblionumber requires a lot more work to do that
17:37 cait or it is even impossible for us - because of our union catalog situation - so it should be an option
17:38 jcamins thd: I think a bigger concern is that the 001 field has a meaning according to the standard. The biblionumber is unstable and does not.
17:38 thd If all the Koha import scripts were written to use 035 correctly and we supplied an appropriate migration script then we could use 001 following the standard.
17:39 thd I only hesitated when I expected that too many users would be caught by surprise with broken systems for not following some appropriate record migration procedure.
17:40 thd We should fix the issue for Koha 3.4.
17:40 gmcharlt thd: which is exactly the reason why we're stuck - we would have to make an upgrade bulletproof
17:40 thd gmcharlt: We changed it once before.
17:41 jcamins Can someone please clarify for me why we would want to make a change like this?
17:41 gmcharlt and, frankly, making matching more flexible would be more achievable for 3.4
17:41 thd There were many fewer users then.
17:41 gmcharlt jcamins: it is theoretically more correct - I agree with the thd on that
17:41 thd jcamins: Following the standard is good especially if you are sharing your records.
17:41 gmcharlt I don't think it would be easy to do in practice without annoying a great many current users
17:42 gmcharlt thd: as far as following the standard is concerned, code to munge the 999 and 001 on *export* would achieve that and be easier
17:42 gmcharlt after all, MARC is an interchange format
17:42 gmcharlt nothing says that the version that gets exported from a Koha catalog has to be 100% identical to what's stored in teh database
17:42 gmcharlt so, e.g., if you want the Koha bib number in the 001 on export
17:42 thd gmcharlt: That is exactly how I conceived of addressing the issue when considering the problem with kados.
17:42 gmcharlt a simple output filter would achieve that
17:43 sekjal is now known as sekjal_a
17:43 slef "DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Lock wait timeout exceeded; try restarting transaction" hmmm
17:43 thd gmcharlt: How do we get Zebra to do that for a Z39.50/SRU server serving the world?
17:44 jcamins gmcharlt: I'm not convinced that storing the biblionumber in the 001 is theoretically more correct. Where does that leave accession numbers from previous systems?
17:44 gmcharlt interpose an XSLT stylesheet to do the transform before emitting the MARC or MARCXML ... pretty sure that would be possible
17:44 gmcharlt jcamins: all legacy IDs should be moved to 035s with appropriate library symbol
17:45 hudsonbot Starting build 29 for job Koha_3.2.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
17:45 cait gmcharlt: ok, this would work for matching, but what about records with identifiers in $w?
17:45 thd gmcharlt: That would be the way.  Does Zebra have support for such a filter on output?
17:45 cait how do they find each other? $w is supposed to link to 001
17:45 cait same on export
17:45 jcamins gmcharlt: but libraries don't change their Organizational Codes when they change ILSes.
17:45 munin New commit(s) kohagit32: Merge remote branch 'kc/new/bug_5386' into kcmaster <[…]f94aeb7e45e7311a5> / Test modules compile <[…]ebb447321791799f9>
17:46 jcamins So you'd end up with 035$a(NNAN)12345 035$a(NNAN)43218 and 035$a(NNAN)smp1234567 all in the same record.
17:46 jcamins And the first two could theoretically both be valid at once.
17:47 gmcharlt jcamins: slightly different thing - the legacy ID during a migration is more commonly not in the 001 in the first place
17:47 thd As long as everything is valid that should not be a problem.
17:47 thd Preserve your history and you can recover what you need.
17:49 cfouts joined #koha
17:49 jcamins gmcharlt: oh, is that how properly-configured systems do it? ;)
17:49 gmcharlt jcamins: heh
17:49 * jcamins likes that idea
17:49 thd cfouts: Where are LibLime customers generally storing the Koha biblionumber in MARC 21?
17:50 jcamins (properly configured systems that do things right, that is)
17:50 gmcharlt IMO, one would hang on to the ID from the past ILS for a year, then purge it
17:50 hudsonbot Project Koha_Master build #141: SUCCESS in 20 min:[…]/Koha_Master/141/
17:50 hudsonbot Galen Charlton: bug 5386: remove dep on Path::Class from t/00-load.t
17:50 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5386 minor, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, ASSIGNED, t/00-load.t adds unnecessary dependency to Path::Class
17:51 cfouts thd: 999$b, iirc
17:52 thd cfouts: Are any using 001?
17:52 chris morning peeps
17:52 cfouts I don't think so. however, MARC is not my forte, and there could be exceptions.
17:54 gmcharlt @admin ignore add hudsonbot
17:54 munin gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.
17:54 jwagner cfouts, we were talking earlier about the Koha to MARC mapping, and thd thought LL had used something else.  What I'm familiar with is 999c
17:54 * chris sees some more signed off patches to check and push this morning :)
17:55 thd I think ryan and kados may have both told me in late 2007 that new customers of some type would be using 001.
17:55 cait hi chris
17:55 jcamins I'm not sure I see what the benefit to changing the biblionumber mapping would be.
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17:58 cfouts right, 999$c. I don't think it's different in any LL customers. like jcamins, I'm not seeing an advantage to moving it.
17:58 thd jcamins: There would be no benefit other than the better appearance of standards compliance.  However, if we can have Zebra add a filter then everything would be fine for external Z39.50/SRU users.
18:00 jcamins thd: I guess I can see the argument for external Z39.50 users, but I'm not even convinced that matters.
18:00 wizzyrea_ mornin chris
18:00 thd jcamins: We would also need to know if Solr/Lucene would support such filtering for the prospect of replacing Zebra even as Z39.50/SRU server for external users.
18:01 chris_n left #koha
18:01 thd jcamins: Are you against sharing your records or do you think that external users do not want to be able to recognise your record nubers?
18:02 thd s/nubers/numbers/
18:02 jcamins thd: I am pro sharing, and think that external users should have access to our accession numbers.
18:02 jcamins Like most libraries I've been at, accession numbers are external.
18:02 gmcharlt thd: that was a bit rude
18:03 chris_n joined #koha
18:03 thd jcamins: External users are not going to know the significance of 999 $c.
18:03 gmcharlt thd: they also don't necessarily have any reason to care
18:03 thd Sorry if I seemed rude.
18:03 cait thd: for us the union catalog number is always more intersting
18:03 jcamins thd: no, but they're also not going to be able to do anything useful with it in the 001 field.
18:03 cfouts what's the utility of knowing the internal reference number at any rate?
18:03 cait than the internal number, for sharing too
18:03 gmcharlt certainly anybody copy-cataloging just want the record, and does not care about any local identifiers
18:03 thd My question was asked in good humour.
18:03 jcamins No offense was taken.
18:04 gmcharlt no worries, then
18:04 jcamins :)
18:04 thd My facial expression and vocal inflection is not communicated well on IRC :)
18:05 hudsonbot Project Koha_3.2.x build #29: SUCCESS in 20 min:[…]ob/Koha_3.2.x/29/
18:05 hudsonbot * Chris Cormack: Test modules compile
18:05 hudsonbot * Chris Cormack: Merge remote branch 'kc/new/bug_5386' into kcmaster
18:05 chris kapow!, collaboration ftw
18:05 jcamins My argument against the biblionumber in the 001 is that it is specific to the library's *current* installation of its *current* ILS. 001 should have semantic significance, which ideally means reference to a guaranteed-unique and guaranteed-permanent identifier. Like accession number.
18:06 thd I am rarely ever rude with intent.
18:06 jcamins Now, granted, the ANS has done a terrible job with their accession numbers and 001s, but that just gives me 12 months worth of experience to tell you that you don't want to experience that particular error.
18:07 thd gmcharlt: Copy cataloguers should be copying the previous 001 into 035.
18:07 jcamins (yes, it took me twelve months of data clean up to give up and conclude that reliable identifiers were a lost cause)
18:08 jcamins (I see this less as an argument for biblionumbers and more as an argument against them, in case that's unclear)
18:08 thd gmcharlt: If we had reaally good automation support for cataloguing we could check the originating source and other matches for possible updates or more complete record information.
18:08 jcamins *biblionumbers as the 001, I mean
18:09 gmcharlt thd: right, but good automation support would have to entail not making assumptions about whether any particular source of records was actually following the ideal convention for 001/003/035 usage
18:09 thd The real world has no reliable identifiers but having identifiers is better than not having them.
18:10 thd gmcharlt: I would not presume but hope and verify with good automation support for record matching.
18:16 thd 003 is often empty and shoud be checked against knowledge of the organisation code for the originating library.
18:16 thd s/empty/missing/
18:17 gmcharlt which of course can be tricky
18:18 gmcharlt as not every library necessary has (or knows) what their code is
18:21 gmcharlt chris_n: when you cherry-pick, please pick the base commits, not the merge commits
18:21 gmcharlt otherwise, it squashes history and attribution
18:22 thd I would create clearly labelled locally created codes for records from libraries which had not taken the opportunity to register for an organisation code.
18:23 gmcharlt chris_n: what you can do if there are too many patches in a branch to cherry-pick individually is to merge in the branch, then sign off on the merge commit before pushing
18:24 chris you do need to be careful with that tho
18:24 thd I would add a note field to the record explaining a locally created code.
18:24 chris because the branches are based on master
18:24 chris you may merge a feature by accident
18:24 gmcharlt good point
18:24 chris i will try to leave the branches up
18:25 chris with the commits at the top, so that cherry picking from them is easier
18:25 chris rather than from master where they are sometimes not grouped together anymore
18:25 sekjal_a left #koha
18:27 sekjal joined #koha
18:28 chris okie dokie bus time
18:28 chris cya's soon from the back seat of the bus, with the other naughty kids
18:29 nengard hehe
18:29 * druthb chuckles.
18:30 chris_n gmcharlt: tnx, I missed that point
18:31 chris_n I have a script written that will cherry-pick ranges of commits, I'll just go back to using to pick from branches
18:44 chris Back
18:46 cait fast :)
18:46 chris Well the bus stops 7 metres from my front door
18:47 chris So its not far to walk:)
18:47 chris Bout 20 mins now til I get to work
18:48 chris Except I will stop at neo for a coffee
18:48 wizzyrea_ she have those pastry things you like ;)
18:48 chris Its funny cos now u know where that is
18:49 chris I hope so !
18:49 jwagner chris, is that the place I went for lunch the first day of the hackfest?
18:50 chris Yup just down the street from catalyst
18:50 jwagner THey had good French toast and eggs, too.
18:50 brendan heya all
18:51 * druthb waves to brendan
18:51 chris They are good all round, they do me a good deal
18:51 chris 12 large flat white coffees for 37
18:51 jwagner So we should have told them that you sent us, and they'd have given us a special rate???
18:51 chris I'm not sure they like me that much :)
18:51 chris Worth a try tho :)
18:53 * chris has played a few missions there
18:53 trea man i miss flat whites
18:53 * wizzyrea_ too
18:53 * gmcharlt googles
18:54 chris There's a good wikipedia page on them gmcharlt
18:54 chris Close to a latte
18:55 chris trea: jcamins was saying you can get them in nyc
18:55 chris Slightly closer :)
18:55 trea i'd sooner fly to welington
18:55 chris Hehe
18:56 jwagner I've been threatening almost daily since I got back to move to NZ.  I'm sure someone must be hiring down there :-)
18:56 chris I like ny without it, id never have met laurel
18:56 jwagner (In other words, chris, you have a really great country to live in -- me like!)
18:57 chris Windy though :)
18:57 cait the only negative thing is, that it is so far away!
18:57 jwagner Yes, I could do without the wind :-(  On the whole, though....
18:57 chris And crazy roads eh nengard?
18:59 Brooke joined #koha
18:59 chris Ata marie Brooke
18:59 wizzyrea_ left #koha
18:59 Brooke kia ora
19:00 jcamins chris: I didn't say you can get a flat white coffee in NYC.
19:00 jcamins Someone told me you could on this channel, though.
19:00 chris Ohhh
19:00 Brooke mr dukleth perhaps?
19:01 chris Cripes I'm on the pda bus
19:01 chris Get a room!
19:01 jcamins chris: I thought you meant everyone had an Android at first.
19:01 Brooke you're in polynesia. Toughen up :P
19:01 trea ok chopper
19:02 chris Htfu
19:02 * chris assumes that's the chopper you mean :)
19:02 trea yes
19:03 chris Now I have to watch that clip again when I get to work
19:03 wizzyrea_ joined #koha
19:05 jcamins trea: http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes[…]retto-flat-white/
19:06 nengard huh? what? was on a call ... whatcha saying chris?
19:07 nengard oh - yes the roads can be a bit insane
19:07 nengard deadly even
19:09 chris K my stop bbiab with coffee
19:10 chris Single biggest killer in nz, cars
19:11 trea i think our time in nz was so enjoyable precisely because we didn't drive
19:14 nengard it wsn't driving that was a problem
19:15 nengard it was driving up a mountain with no guardrail or sholder to speak off - i think my tire hit dirt a few times and if it was just a little further over i would have been at teh bottom of that mountain on the wrong side of the car :) hehe
19:15 druthb hehehe....driving in DC isn't a's the fact that everyone *else* is driving at the same time!  If we could all take turns, would be no problem.
19:16 trea yea, my original comment still stands
19:17 Brooke it's cause you live in MD :P
19:18 Brooke the choice was betwixt bad merging in MD
19:18 Brooke and bad parking in VA
19:18 Brooke clear choice to me :)
19:19 druthb Brooke:  I had a car for about two weeks after I moved here.  When I called my insurance company and they wanted to *triple* what I was paying in Texas, I told them to scram, and sold the chariot.  And lowered my stress level.
19:19 Brooke :D
19:19 Brooke way to go
19:20 druthb I figured that $300/month for insurance, plus fuel, plus inspections, plus $100/month for blood pressure pills was a bit much.
19:20 jcamins Yay!
19:20 jcamins cars--
19:21 jcamins @karma cars
19:21 munin jcamins: Karma for "cars" has been increased 0 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of -1.
19:21 druthb cars--
19:21 chris back
19:24 cait cars--
19:24 cait I can't drive them and get car sick
19:24 cait cars--
19:24 bigbrovar joined #koha
19:25 druthb @karma druthb
19:25 munin druthb: Karma for "druthb" has been increased 37 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 37.
19:25 druthb @karma jwagner
19:25 munin druthb: Karma for "jwagner" has been increased 49 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 49.
19:25 druthb harrrumph!
19:25 brendan @karma sekjal
19:25 munin brendan: Karma for "sekjal" has been increased 39 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of 38.
19:25 gmcharlt @quote add <druthb> harrrumph!
19:25 munin gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.  Quote #102 added.
19:26 jwagner Hey, that's MY line!!!
19:26 * druthb giggles like a maniac.
19:26 cait lol
19:26 cait druthb++
19:26 trea that's a creative commons line. it's in the public domain now
19:26 jwagner me thinks druthb had better watch it or I'll come sneeze and cough on her!
19:27 * druthb may wear a hazmat suit to work tomorrow, just in case.  Probably get funny looks on the bus--but is used to that.
19:27 jcamins druthb: you'd get funny looks?
19:27 jcamins Here in NYC, I don't think anyone would blink.
19:28 jwagner a hazmat suit would probably provoke a terror alert, sigh.
19:28 druthb Nearly every day, yup.  I get it less in the District proper, but out here in the 'burbs yah.
19:28 * chris_n is amazed at all of the author/owner-less RFCs for 3.4
19:28 chris mostly come over from the old wiki i bet
19:28 trea druthb:
19:29 nengard chris_n -- hence all my comments on not following the template
19:29 jcamins jwagner: yeah, I guess you're right.
19:29 Brooke move over to the People's Republik of Takoma Park, comrade.
19:30 druthb trea++
19:31 * chris wanders downstairs to chat with anitsirk
19:31 Brooke left #koha
19:31 pauln joined #koha
19:31 richard joined #koha
19:31 richard hi
19:32 druthb Brooke:  The only place where I've been concerned about immediate violence was on the Ft. Totten metro platform.  Had a scary moment there.
19:34 jcamins Brooke: I thought you worked at a rural library? I didn't realize there were rural libraries in DC suburbs.
19:40 cfouts left #koha
19:40 druthb off to catch the bus.
19:40 druthb public_transit++
19:40 * druthb waves
19:40 druthb left #koha
19:41 pauln left #koha
19:49 * chris_n notes 620 open enh reqs in bugzilla
19:52 jcamins Was bug 5040 patched in master yet?
19:52 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5040 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, nengard, ASSIGNED, "Distance" misspelled in default framework
19:54 jcamins Nope.
19:54 jcamins Sorry chris_n, I can't close any of my bugs just now.
19:55 jcamins I did change that one from enhancement to trivial.
19:56 cait chris_n: I'll try and sign-off the patch for fines and notices tomorrow
19:56 chris_n cait: tnx
20:00 cait closing some of my bugs right now :)
20:12 chris back
20:14 cait :)
20:14 magnus g'night #koha
20:14 magnus left #koha
20:15 cait chris: will you push my analytics on a branch? we had lively discussion on linking records earlier
20:15 cait I think it will probably not be easy to merge the different concepts
20:16 chris right
20:16 chris hmm, i can push them on an awaiting_qa branch
20:16 cait that would be ok for me - to let people test
20:16 chris new/awaiting_qa/bsz_analytics
20:16 cait and look at it?
20:16 chris people could test from your repo also
20:17 chris you could email koha-devel, and give a link to your public repo
20:17 chris and the branch
20:17 cait hm right
20:17 chris and ask people to test there
20:17 chris i pushed osslabs, because theirs came in in patches, not in a nice branch already :)
20:17 cait when I asked you yesterday if a branch would help you said yes!
20:17 * cait grumbles a little ;)
20:18 chris yes, you having a branch helps me a lot
20:18 chris because it means it odnt have to take a bunch of patches and make a branch
20:18 chris and i can spend the time learning how to type instead
20:18 * jcamins wails and gnashes his teeth
20:19 cait huh
20:19 * cait looks scared
20:19 cait you type wonderful, much better than me ;)
20:19 jcamins Apparently the only way to make searches for accented characters to work is to open each record in the Koha record editor and save it.
20:19 cait ?
20:19 cait that doesn't sound good
20:20 chris cait: i can make a branch under and then you can ask people to test it from there, or you can ask them to test it from your repo .. i dont mind either way, what do you prefer?
20:20 cait we use icu... but that has it's own problems
20:20 cait chris: that's a good question
20:20 cait I was thinking about writing my own rfc
20:20 chris now thats a good idea
20:20 cait jcamins: what do you think?
20:20 jcamins I have 175363 records in this database. That's an awful lot of records to open and save. :(
20:20 jcamins cait: I'd definitely like to see your RFC.
20:21 chris jcamins: are you changing anything?
20:21 chris and does the save change anything?
20:21 jcamins And as you probably gathered from our lively discussion earlier, I am liable to comment. :)
20:21 chris or does it just make zebra reindex?
20:21 cait and I had hoped you would accept to proof read it - because I had writing longer things in english
20:21 chris cos if its just zebra, -r
20:21 cait had = hat
20:21 cait e
20:21 cait my
20:21 jcamins chris: no, I'm not changing anything, I think it's just changing the unicode normalization.
20:21 cait better learn typing first...
20:21 jcamins The records are in the index.
20:22 chris jcamins: but wrongly if they arent being searched eh?
20:22 braedon|h jcamins: can't you write a script to batch process the normalisation?
20:22 chris jcamins: what im driving at, is the save changing the marcxml in biblioitems
20:22 chris cos if its not, a full reindex is all you need, if it is, then you need to do what braedon|h is suggesting :)
20:24 braedon|h scripts are always the answer :)
20:26 jcamins chris: I'm guessing that braedon|h is right.
20:26 braedon|h you could probably actually write a simple firefox plugin to edit and save all your records
20:27 braedon|h (or depending on the save mechanism, do it via a command line script)
20:28 jcamins I'll do a bit more investigation.
20:30 jcamins And maybe wail and gnash my teeth a bit more.
20:30 chris if you arent changing anything
20:30 chris the script could be as simple as
20:30 chris select biblionumber from biblio;
20:30 chris iterate over that
20:30 chris get record, save record
20:30 chris done
20:31 braedon|h so there are get/save functions you can easily call externally?
20:32 saorge_ left #koha
20:32 saorge joined #koha
20:33 braedon|h no benefit in a higher level firefox plugin then :P
20:33 chris all in C4/
20:38 munin New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 5112: Organisation does not show links to professionals <[…]5506d6ea97c11fe14>
20:38 * jcamins wails and gnashes his teeth again - MarcEdit has broken.
20:39 * braedon|h feels sorry for jcamins' teeth
20:39 cait yay!
20:39 braedon|h is now known as braedon
20:39 * cait gives jcamins another cookie
20:39 nengard jcamins, i had that problem and i had to downgrade to an older version
20:39 cait better chew on that
20:39 jcamins cait++
20:39 nengard and then after a few weeks tried upgrading back to the new one and it worked
20:40 jcamins nengard: probably there was a broken version. I haven't used MarcEdit in a while.
20:43 jcamins Hey, can I just pull a single record out of a binary MARC file?
20:43 nengard um
20:43 jcamins I seem to recall that it's safe to just cat a bunch of MARC records together.
20:43 nengard i don't know
20:44 jcamins Well, we'll find out soon. :)
20:44 hudsonbot Starting build 142 for job Koha_Master (previous build: SUCCESS)
20:45 gmcharlt jcamins: yes, it's safe
20:45 brendan for marcedit - I just uninstalled and reinstalled with the new one and it worked great
20:48 jcamins Well, if MarcEdit finishes downloading before I extract this record with my handy text editor, I'll do that. :)
20:49 trea_ joined #koha
20:50 trea left #koha
20:50 trea_ is now known as trea
20:50 jcamins Hm. I don't think this record is 136kb.
20:52 jcamins As it turns out, I finished at the same time as the download.
20:58 munin New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 5385: POD Cleanups (part 2) <[…]89148f2bb99149e51> / Bug 5385: POD Cleanups (part 1) <[…]321141ec0d23d3268>
21:04 hudsonbot Project Koha_Master build #142: SUCCESS in 19 min:[…]/Koha_Master/142/
21:04 hudsonbot Katrin Fischer: Bug 5112: Organisation does not show links to professionals
21:04 hudsonbot Starting build 143 for job Koha_Master (previous build: SUCCESS)
21:07 hudsonbot Project Koha_Master build #143: FAILURE in 2 min 37 sec:[…]/Koha_Master/143/
21:07 hudsonbot * Andrew Elwell: Bug 5385: POD Cleanups (part 1)
21:07 hudsonbot * Andrew Elwell: Bug 5385: POD Cleanups (part 2)
21:07 chris ohh, best i go  check that out
21:08 chris ah ha
21:08 chris yay for unit tests
21:08 chris Error:  Global symbol "@positionsForX" requires explicit package name at /var/lib/hudson/jobs/Koha_Master/wor​kspace/C4/Barcodes/ line 86.
21:08 chris doing exactly what they are supposed to do
21:09 * chris goes to fixinate
21:10 * larsw waves a banner saying "unit tests ftw"
21:10 gmcharlt bah
21:11 * gmcharlt should have been more paranoid
21:11 chris well i should run the tests locally first
21:11 * chris_n does 'prove' before pushing
21:11 chris_n always
21:11 chris_n snap
21:11 chris yup, my git hook does that for me, if i commit
21:11 chris but i was lazy and didnt sign the merge, no commit
21:12 * chris will make them run on merge too
21:13 cait going to switch laptops
21:14 chris interestingly enough
21:14 cait left #koha
21:14 chris that line wasnt changed by the patch
21:15 chris i cant see how that file ever worked
21:16 chris ahh
21:16 chris yes i do
21:17 chris or not
21:17 chris hehe
21:18 chris ahhh yeah
21:18 chris -my @positionsForX; # Takes all the X positions of the pdf file.
21:18 chris =head2 my @positionsForX;
21:18 jcamins I was right.
21:18 chris thats not the same thing :)
21:19 chris mind you theres no reason those variables should be global anyway
21:19 jcamins Saving the record results in the Unicode being normalized.
21:19 * chris will fix the pod and the variables
21:20 cait joined #koha
21:21 cait re
21:21 chris heya cait
21:22 cait cleaned the fan today - seems to work better know
21:22 chris excellent
21:23 nengard chris_n
21:23 nengard new label maker issue
21:23 nengard i'm on head and when i select multiple titles from the search results on the add to batch
21:23 nengard only one is added :(
21:23 chris !hudson build koha_master now
21:23 hudsonbot chris: job koha_master build scheduled now
21:23 hudsonbot Starting build 144 for job Koha_Master (previous build: FAILURE -- last SUCCESS #142 39 min ago)
21:23 cfouts joined #koha
21:25 jcamins Should we have a script included with Koha, say in the misc/migration_tools directory that will resave in order to correct Unicode normalization?
21:26 * chris_n swats vainly at the horde of bugs swarming about
21:27 jwagner left #koha
21:28 munin New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 5385 - Fixing an error that crept in with the POD cleanup <[…]1ff106595ebd55224>
21:31 jcamins Good night, #koha
21:31 jcamins is now known as jcamins_a
21:37 brendan_l joined #koha
21:38 munin New commit(s) kohagit: Merge remote branch 'kc/new/bug_4305' into kcmaster <[…]57706c48ce28e86aa> / Bug 5385 - Fixing an error that crept in with the POD cleanup <[…]4f423a212fa4b362c> / bug 4305: add a couple test cases for _isbn_cleanup <
21:42 hudsonbot Yippie, build fixed!
21:42 hudsonbot Project Koha_Master build #144: FIXED in 19 min:[…]/Koha_Master/144/
21:42 hudsonbot Chris Cormack: Bug 5385 - Fixing an error that crept in with the POD cleanup
21:43 hudsonbot Starting build 145 for job Koha_Master (previous build: FIXED)
21:47 brendan_l left #koha
21:50 chris_n robin++ # for reminding us that words have more than one meaning
21:59 robin chris_n: :)
22:02 hudsonbot Project Koha_Master build #145: SUCCESS in 19 min:[…]/Koha_Master/145/
22:02 hudsonbot * Colin Campbell: Bug 4305 Improve code flow
22:02 hudsonbot * Galen Charlton: bug 4305: add a couple test cases for _isbn_cleanup
22:02 hudsonbot * Chris Cormack: Bug 5385 - Fixing an error that crept in with the POD cleanup
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22:08 cait re
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22:33 chris cfouts: the expat is bad came out of liblime a while back, and may no longer be true
22:33 chris lemme find the emails
22:33 cfouts Thanks. I would love to see!
22:35 chris heh
22:36 chris i can find me telling people to use it in 2006
22:36 chris As for this error, I think installing
22:36 chris XML::SAX::Expat will fix it
22:36 chris so sometime after then, and between now, it became bad :)
22:39 chris apparently an issue with diacritics
22:40 cfouts do you remember a test case?
22:41 chris do you ahve an arabic, or a chinese record (or even french)
22:43 chris ah ha!!
22:43 chris[…]6/05/msg2369.html
22:43 chris my google foo is weak, it found me longer to find that than it should have :)
22:44 chris i imagine those files no longer exist tho ;(
22:47 cfouts no, surely not. I don't even know where "" was hosted at that time.
22:47 chris somewhere in dallas i think
22:47 chris spry is ringing a bell
22:48 cfouts yes, those are long gone
22:58 cait left #koha
23:07 nengard left #koha
23:25 jcamins_a Was someone asking for an Arabic record?
23:25 jcamins_a is now known as jcamins
23:26 jcamins Grr. ln:ara isn't working on this version. Forgot about that.
23:27 wizzyrea_ left #koha
23:28 cfouts well, I can't break it in the way Josh described, though his description was very vague regarding the Expat failure.
23:28 jcamins cfouts: would you like a record in Cyrillic?
23:28 cfouts thanks, yes
23:29 cfouts I fudged one on my own, but a more authentic test case would be helpful
23:29 jcamins cfouts:[…]blionumber=175519
23:30 jcamins If the download from the OPAC will do for you, there's that. If you need it exported, I can get that for you in five minutes.
23:30 gmcharlt cfouts: I've confirmed that PurePerl is broken with respect to MARC::File::XML (not that that's relevant)
23:30 gmcharlt cfouts: I've not thus far found any problems with using Expat
23:31 jcamins You would think after we sent out a press release showing off the Arabic capabilities of DONUM that I would have some idea what record it was that had Arabic in it...
23:32 jcamins This record uses macrons:[…]biblionumber=1081
23:36 cfouts what's a macron?
23:37 jcamins The bar over vowels used in Arabic transliteration.
23:37 chris and Māori
23:37 jcamins Yes, that too.
23:37 * jcamins doesn't know how to type macrons, actually
23:38 chris its a double vowel, or a long sound at least in te reo it is
23:42 jcamins Okay, this is just absurd.
23:42 cfouts[…]
23:43 jcamins I cannot find the record with the Arabic.
23:43 cfouts test script. contains diacritics, hirigana, arabic, hebrew, and accented latin chars
23:45 * jcamins gives up and goes to figure out what to do about dinner.
23:45 chris have u tried with plan Expat?
23:46 cfouts no
23:46 chris seems to work ok too, i wish we had that several.mrc file
23:47 chris without it, its pretty hard to know exactly what was causing the error
23:47 cfouts indeed
23:48 chris AH HA
23:48 gmcharlt found it?
23:48 chris i can make Expat barf
23:48 chris if i change the leader
23:48 chris to say the record is marc8
23:48 chris but give it utf8
23:49 chris i wonder if that was the issue
23:49 cfouts isn't that a feature?
23:49 chris well it only sorta barfs
23:49 jcamins cfouts: I would've thought so, but apparently Z39.50 doesn't reliably report encoding.
23:49 chris Wide character in print at ./ line 123.
23:49 chris Wide character in subroutine entry at /usr/share/perl5/MARC/Charset/ line 96.
23:50 chris prints the marc, aslpodes trying to print the xml
23:50 cfouts yeah, the ISO still comes out fine.
23:50 chris you should be able to replicate if you change the 9th char from an a to space
23:50 chris yeah
23:50 jcamins chris: why can't we catch that and fallback to assuming it's MARC-8?
23:51 chris cos it might be exploding for lots of reasons
23:51 gmcharlt jcamins: MARC-8 is not the only game in town
23:51 chris what he said
23:51 robin chris: that can be fixed by telling Perl to output as UTF8, no?
23:51 cfouts LibXML barfs then, too
23:51 robin open my $fh, '>:utf8', $file
23:52 jcamins gmcharlt: but those are the only two options for a MARC record, aren't they?
23:52 gmcharlt jcamins: I wish
23:52 chris robin: not really no, its silently dying on $record->as_xml();
23:52 robin ah ok
23:52 gmcharlt the reality is that there are at least half a dozen character encodings that one can run into
23:53 gmcharlt just within the borders of USA
23:53 gmcharlt and more legacy encodings if you look across the ponds
23:53 robin I've started using Encoding::FixLatin to get things as UTF8-y as I can
23:54 * jcamins clearly doesn't want to think about this
23:54 * jcamins also needs to actually leave his computer so he can eat dinner
23:54 jcamins is now known as jcamins_a
23:54 chris but yeah if this is dying on LibXML it might not have been the original problem
23:55 gmcharlt chris: I'm pretty sure it isn't
23:55 gmcharlt yet another glitch with MARC::Charset, not the one that kados was running into back then
23:55 chris it is one that causes the error
23:55 chris that was reported on the mailing list
23:56 chris yesterday i think
23:56 gmcharlt yeah, but needing to make sure that the Leader/09 for MARC21 UTF-8 records is set correctly is a known error
23:57 chris 2. When I importing a record using z39.50, after clicking the Save and
23:57 chris view record button, I get the message "Tag "" is not a valid tag. at
23:57 chris /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 1863"
23:57 chris those kidna errors are the ones you run into, when you tell z3950 that you are expecting utf8 and it gives you marc8
23:58 chris gmcharlt: yep

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