| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:17 |
|
brendan |
@wunder 06516 |
| 00:17 |
|
munin |
brendan: The current temperature in DopplerDon.com, East Haven, Connecticut is 3.5�C (7:15 PM EST on January 18, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: 1.0�C. Windchill: 3.0�C. Pressure: 29.85 in 1010.7 hPa (Rising). |
| 00:17 |
|
brendan |
@wunder 93117 |
| 00:17 |
|
munin |
brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 14.7�C (4:11 PM PST on January 18, 2010). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: 12.0�C. Pressure: 29.69 in 1005.3 hPa (Rising). Wind Advisory in effect until 6 PM PST this evening... |
| 00:29 |
|
chris_n2 |
looks like chris is getting ready to present Koha |
| 00:59 |
|
chris |
gah |
| 00:59 |
|
chris |
i feel like i talked way too fast then |
| 01:00 |
|
russ |
heh - always the way |
| 01:01 |
|
chris_n2 |
nice presentation chris |
| 01:01 |
|
chris_n2 |
chris++ |
| 01:04 |
|
chris |
thanks |
| 01:07 |
|
gmcharlt |
chris++ |
| 01:20 |
|
chris |
made some good contacts to talk with in the evenings too |
| 01:20 |
|
|
biglego left #koha |
| 01:32 |
|
* chris_n2 |
performs the obligatory daily reboot of his XP box |
| 01:32 |
|
chris_n2 |
brb |
| 01:32 |
|
chris_n2 |
exit |
| 01:32 |
|
chris_n2 |
heh |
| 01:32 |
|
|
chris_n2 left #koha |
| 01:37 |
|
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chris_n2 joined #koha |
| 03:42 |
|
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Amit joined #koha |
| 03:42 |
|
Amit |
heya brendan, chris |
| 03:43 |
|
Amit |
morning #koha |
| 03:52 |
|
chris_n2 |
howdy Amit |
| 03:53 |
|
Amit |
heya chris_n2 |
| 04:10 |
|
Amit |
@wunder Bangalore india |
| 04:10 |
|
munin |
Amit: The current temperature in Bangalore, India is 19.0�C (8:30 AM IST on January 19, 2010). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 85%. Dew Point: 18.0�C. |
| 04:20 |
|
|
greenmang0 joined #koha |
| 04:22 |
|
chris_n2 |
@wunder 28334 |
| 04:22 |
|
munin |
chris_n2: The current temperature in Dunn, North Carolina is 6.6�C (11:20 PM EST on January 18, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 92%. Dew Point: 5.0�C. Windchill: 7.0�C. Pressure: 29.59 in 1001.9 hPa (Steady). |
| 04:48 |
|
|
masonj left #koha |
| 04:56 |
|
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masonj joined #koha |
| 05:04 |
|
chris_n2 |
g'night #koha |
| 05:46 |
|
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saorge joined #koha |
| 05:50 |
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saorge_ left #koha |
| 05:50 |
|
richard |
i wonder when 3.2's release date is |
| 05:53 |
|
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| 06:05 |
|
Amit |
heya richard |
| 06:05 |
|
richard |
hiya Amit |
| 07:08 |
|
|
nicomo joined #koha |
| 07:09 |
|
nicomo |
morning all |
| 07:23 |
|
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kf joined #koha |
| 07:31 |
|
chris |
hi all |
| 07:36 |
|
kf |
hi chris |
| 07:36 |
|
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magnus joined #koha |
| 07:59 |
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Kivutar joined #koha |
| 07:59 |
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laurence joined #koha |
| 08:01 |
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| 08:05 |
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| 08:07 |
|
toins |
morni |
| 08:07 |
|
toins |
morning all ! |
| 08:59 |
|
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richard left #koha |
| 09:10 |
|
nicomo |
morning Mr toins |
| 09:10 |
|
toins |
hello nicomo |
| 09:10 |
|
toins |
what's up ? |
| 09:23 |
|
hdl_laptop |
hello toins |
| 09:23 |
|
toins |
hello hdl_laptop |
| 09:35 |
|
chris |
@wunder wellington nz |
| 09:35 |
|
munin |
chris: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 18.0�C (10:00 PM NZDT on January 19, 2010). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 77%. Dew Point: 14.0�C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Rising). |
| 09:35 |
|
chris |
hmm, it feels hotter than that |
| 09:35 |
|
toins |
@wunder marseille france |
| 09:35 |
|
munin |
toins: The current temperature in Marseille, France is 4.0�C (10:00 AM CET on January 19, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 3.0�C. Windchill: 4.0�C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Steady). |
| 09:36 |
|
chris |
thats pretty humid .. looks like rain today for you |
| 09:39 |
|
toins |
nope, is it sunny |
| 09:39 |
|
toins |
and temperature is 3 times higher... |
| 09:39 |
|
toins |
wunder-- |
| 09:43 |
|
magnus |
@wunder bodo, norway |
| 09:43 |
|
munin |
magnus: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is -1.0�C (10:20 AM CET on January 19, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: -2.0�C. Windchill: -8.0�C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Steady). |
| 09:44 |
|
chris |
http://gearman.org/ <-- this looks interesting |
| 09:48 |
|
chris |
as does http://mysql-mmm.org/ |
| 09:48 |
|
chris |
(things i learnt about in the last 2 days) |
| 09:57 |
|
Ropuch |
Morning #koha |
| 10:10 |
|
|
brendan left #koha |
| 10:23 |
|
chris |
ok, time for sleep |
| 10:23 |
|
toins |
good night chris ! |
| 11:30 |
|
|
magnus is now known as magnus_lunch |
| 11:40 |
|
|
magnus_lunch is now known as magnus |
| 11:54 |
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| 12:36 |
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| 12:39 |
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| 12:58 |
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gmcharlt left #koha |
| 13:09 |
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collum joined #koha |
| 13:10 |
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jdavidb joined #koha |
| 13:14 |
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tekonivel joined #koha |
| 13:30 |
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owen joined #koha |
| 13:31 |
|
chris_n |
g'morning |
| 13:33 |
|
nengard |
morning |
| 13:35 |
|
* jwagner |
opens bleary eye |
| 13:35 |
|
jwagner |
Good morning, I think.... |
| 13:35 |
|
owen |
Hi |
| 13:35 |
|
* chris_n |
passes out coffee/tea... your choice |
| 13:35 |
|
jwagner |
Already almost through the first cup of tea. It's not helping.... |
| 13:35 |
|
chris_n |
owen: thanks for the excellent blogs on customizing opac |
| 13:36 |
|
chris_n |
jwagner: your supposed to drink it, not pour it into your eyes ;-) |
| 13:36 |
|
owen |
You bet. I'm just sorry I've been too busy to do more |
| 13:36 |
|
chris_n |
owen: they saved me hours of time I'm sure |
| 13:36 |
|
jwagner |
chris_n, so THAT'S what I've been doing wrong!!! |
| 13:37 |
|
chris_n |
did any of you get to see chris's presentation on koha yesterday? |
| 13:37 |
|
chris_n |
he did a great job |
| 13:37 |
|
owen |
You watched it online chris_n? |
| 13:38 |
|
chris_n |
yes |
| 13:38 |
|
* chris_n |
wishes he could have flown to NZ, but did not think he could make it back in time for work today :-) |
| 13:40 |
|
chris_n |
owen: I had a bit of a problem with the clearfix class and my list menu |
| 13:41 |
|
chris_n |
applying the clearfix class caused the first item in the menu to be elevated vertically above the others |
| 13:41 |
|
chris_n |
it turns out the hidden "." was causing this |
| 13:42 |
|
owen |
Interesting...I've never seen that. |
| 13:42 |
|
chris_n |
and setting the 'content' parameter to " " rather than "." fixed it |
| 13:42 |
|
chris_n |
I read multiple articles and all said to set content: "." |
| 13:42 |
|
* owen |
thinks, CSS quirks? Why haven't I heard of this before? |
| 13:42 |
|
chris_n |
so I'm not sure if there is an issue from higher up in my css that may be causing the problem or not |
| 13:43 |
|
* chris_n |
is very, very green at CSS and web design in general |
| 13:43 |
|
owen |
The C in CSS pretty much means all bets are off when it comes to code re-use |
| 13:44 |
|
chris_n |
but I don't see where using a space rather than a period would affect things adversely |
| 13:44 |
|
|
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| 13:45 |
|
owen |
I wonder if there was a good reason for the original creator of the hack to have chosen it |
| 13:45 |
|
* chris_n |
thinks CSS is a bit more magic and arcane than perl |
| 13:45 |
|
chris_n |
yeah, I don't know |
| 13:45 |
|
|
CGI826 left #koha |
| 13:46 |
|
|
schuster joined #koha |
| 13:47 |
|
chris_n |
I could not seem to debug it even with firebug |
| 13:47 |
|
owen |
Good morning schuster |
| 13:50 |
|
schuster |
Hey great wizard of css and javascript owen! and Chris_n buddy extraordinary! |
| 13:50 |
|
chris_n |
howdy schuster |
| 13:50 |
|
schuster |
just read an ad for a super heros contest... |
| 13:51 |
|
* chris_n |
was wondering what was in schuster's coffee ;-) |
| 13:52 |
|
|
gmcharlt joined #koha |
| 13:52 |
|
jwagner |
What I'd like to know is how you WIN the super heroes contest? |
| 13:52 |
|
hdl_laptop |
hi everyone |
| 13:52 |
|
chris_n |
owen: do you have any suggestions on where to find a *good* reference for CSS syntax |
| 13:52 |
|
jwagner |
Bonjour hdl_laptop |
| 13:53 |
|
chris_n |
hey hdl_laptop |
| 13:53 |
|
chris_n |
howdy gmcharlt |
| 13:53 |
|
gmcharlt |
greetings from the airport |
| 13:53 |
|
hdl_laptop |
hi gmcharlt. |
| 13:54 |
|
owen |
chris_n: I find the Sitepoint references handy: http://reference.sitepoint.com/css |
| 13:54 |
|
owen |
Productive conference gmcharlt ? |
| 13:55 |
|
gmcharlt |
owen: certainly informative - upshot, at least regarding the big news, is that things are very much in the air |
| 13:55 |
|
owen |
yeah, we shouldn't really have expected anything more |
| 13:56 |
|
owen |
We can always hope for bold moves I suppose |
| 13:58 |
|
gmcharlt |
missed opportunity - this conference would have been perfect time to make such moves |
| 13:58 |
|
|
Nate joined #koha |
| 13:59 |
|
gmcharlt |
the deal isn't finalized yet, of course, so obviously that has to happen before PTFS would make any larger announcements |
| 13:59 |
|
Nate |
Hi everyone! |
| 14:01 |
|
chris_n |
gmcharlt: that is some hope |
| 14:07 |
|
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Colin joined #koha |
| 14:12 |
|
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| 14:18 |
|
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Colin left #koha |
| 14:32 |
|
* owen |
isn't feeling much like a CSS wizard today, fighting with a WebKit oddity this morning. |
| 14:32 |
|
owen |
Safari for Windows isn't getting any interest around here but Chrome is. |
| 14:37 |
|
schuster |
Just reading through the newsletter some interesting development items going on there... great job to Middletown and East brunswick and PTFS I'm looking forward to the did you mean feature!!! |
| 14:38 |
|
schuster |
I was surprised though about the selfless plug for a new support company - spin off that looks probably much like LibLime did when Athens first started to use them... |
| 14:38 |
|
|
toins left #koha |
| 14:40 |
|
chris_n |
schuster: which newsletter? |
| 14:41 |
|
owen |
http://koha.web2learning.net/2[…]uary-2010/#middle |
| 14:41 |
|
chris_n |
owen: does the background image used in the menu at the top of the myacpl.org page scroll when hovered over? |
| 14:42 |
|
* chris_n |
noticed the image has three different images in it with slightly different gradients on each one |
| 14:43 |
|
owen |
Yes, the hover state of the link has a different background-position set |
| 14:43 |
|
owen |
That allows you to use one image file instead of multiple ones. |
| 14:44 |
|
chris_n |
that makes sense |
| 14:44 |
|
jwagner |
schuster, on the Did You Mean thing, I haven't gotten around to writing it up for bugzilla yet, sorry. It uses an open source dictionary called Aspell, and I need to track down the dependencies (I think there's one other one). |
| 14:44 |
|
owen |
chris_n: http://www.fiftyfoureleven.com[…]oors-meet-sprites |
| 14:46 |
|
* owen |
visits the mtpl OPAC and reads "The AOL browser does not work with Koha" |
| 14:47 |
|
owen |
I would like to add, "And Owen will drive to your house and punch you in the face if you use the AOL browser." |
| 14:47 |
|
jwagner |
We've had major problems with users at MTPL getting kicked out as soon as they log in, and all of them that we've identified are using the AOL browser. I know there were always issues with it for Unicorn.... |
| 14:47 |
|
|
ColinsC joined #koha |
| 14:47 |
|
owen |
Honestly, I didn't realize there still was such a thing as the AOL browser. |
| 14:48 |
|
owen |
I should be so lucky. |
| 14:48 |
|
|
ColinsC is now known as Colin |
| 14:48 |
|
nengard |
schuster - i'm confused as to what plug you're referring to? |
| 14:48 |
|
jwagner |
Yep, you should be, owen. A small but vocal contingent of MTPL patrons still use it, anyway. |
| 14:48 |
|
nengard |
was there something someone wrote that you think i should have edited out> |
| 14:48 |
|
nengard |
? |
| 14:49 |
|
owen |
jwagner: How does one see the "did you mean" feature? |
| 14:49 |
|
nengard |
owen - lawyers still love AOL - no friggin clue why - but that's the way it was when I was in the law library and I don't see that it has changed much |
| 14:49 |
|
* owen |
boggles |
| 14:49 |
|
jwagner |
owen, it's still in test right now. I hope we can move it to their production server in the next couple of weeks. |
| 14:50 |
|
owen |
Okay jwagner, I misunderstood, thought it was live on their opac |
| 14:50 |
|
jwagner |
Not yet. |
| 14:51 |
|
jwagner |
Found my notes, the other dependency is Text::Aspell.pm |
| 14:51 |
|
owen |
jwagner: Were you aware that Koha at one time had a similar feature? |
| 14:52 |
|
owen |
http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2539 |
| 14:52 |
|
munin |
Bug 2539: normal, P3, ---, jmf liblime.com, NEW, kohaspsuggest is deprecated, notes outmoded |
| 14:52 |
|
jwagner |
Yes, we saw the existing code & built off it. Made life much easier :-) |
| 14:53 |
|
owen |
The original version didn't use a spelling dictionary did it? It just checked against data in your catalog? |
| 14:53 |
|
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ColinC left #koha |
| 14:53 |
|
jwagner |
I don't know what the original did. Ours uses the Aspell dictionary. We're looking into how sites can add terms to the dictionary, either locally or perhaps through the Aspell list/site. |
| 14:54 |
|
jwagner |
MTPL came up with a bunch of terms that the dictionary didn't match. |
| 14:57 |
|
owen |
jwagner: Please do file a bug report when you get a chance so others can follow your progress |
| 14:57 |
|
jwagner |
Will do. I want to clarify the techie end of it with the developer (the dependencies). |
| 14:58 |
|
owen |
I know my library will love to see that one come down the pike. |
| 14:59 |
|
jwagner |
Could use some input on it -- right now the code is hardcoded to suggest five terms. The number of possible suggestions is quite high. Would people prefer a syspref to allow the sites to control how many terms are suggested? From what I've seen in testing, it's pretty good at coming up with the proper term within that first five. |
| 15:01 |
|
owen |
Many users will be accustomed to Google's *one* suggestion, but then Google never makes mistakes ;) |
| 15:01 |
|
jwagner |
Of course not! |
| 15:01 |
|
owen |
hdl_laptop here? |
| 15:02 |
|
hdl_laptop |
yes |
| 15:03 |
|
owen |
If I have a patch for biblibre/3.2_community should I send it directly to you? Or to the patches list (or both)? |
| 15:03 |
|
gmcharlt |
I think all patches should go to patcheskoha.org with a header indicating the target branch |
| 15:03 |
|
hdl_laptop |
jwagner : probably Text::Aspell (for dependency) + aspell libs |
| 15:03 |
|
owen |
What's the best way to do the header gmcharlt ? |
| 15:04 |
|
gmcharlt |
subject line - [biblibre/3.2_community], e.g. |
| 15:04 |
|
gmcharlt |
git-format-patch can be used to tweak the subject line |
| 15:04 |
|
* owen |
thinks he has been told this before |
| 15:05 |
|
hdl_laptop |
git format-patch --subject-prefix=3.2_community |
| 15:05 |
|
hdl_laptop |
... |
| 15:05 |
|
hdl_laptop |
or even better : "biblibre/3.2_community" |
| 15:06 |
|
hdl_laptop |
thus, you can tell the repo you want it to be on |
| 15:08 |
|
owen |
Okay, looks like that worked. Thanks! |
| 15:12 |
|
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| 15:12 |
|
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laurence joined #koha |
| 15:14 |
|
gmcharlt |
about to board a plane - see you later |
| 15:14 |
|
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gmcharlt left #koha |
| 15:27 |
|
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Colin left #koha |
| 15:32 |
|
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| 15:32 |
|
owen |
I could use suggestions for a strange problem: I'm getting different results from a mysql command line query than I am from running a script in the browser |
| 15:32 |
|
owen |
I've checked all the connection details and they're the same |
| 15:38 |
|
hdl_laptop |
cached information ? |
| 15:39 |
|
owen |
that's what I'm looking into. It's an external PHP script querying our Koha database. I've never seen it do this before. |
| 15:41 |
|
slef |
predictable criticism of LCA-NZ from fsdaily http://www.fsdaily.com/Philoso[…]source_conference |
| 16:31 |
|
* chris_n |
seems to remember that the HLT board meets today to review the draft Koha Committee Rules |
| 16:34 |
|
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gmcharlt joined #koha |
| 16:35 |
|
chris_n |
wb gmcharlt |
| 16:35 |
|
chris_n |
smooth flight? |
| 16:37 |
|
gmcharlt |
so far - still in the air |
| 16:39 |
|
wizzyrea |
gmcharlt is so epic he even chats while flying |
| 16:39 |
|
wizzyrea |
you are def one of my geek heroes |
| 16:39 |
|
chris_n |
arggg!! |
| 16:40 |
|
* chris_n |
learns the very downside of having opac customizations stored in the db.... |
| 16:40 |
|
wizzyrea |
:( you deleted them? |
| 16:40 |
|
chris_n |
<--- overwrote his dev db while restoring the current production db to do a debug run |
| 16:41 |
|
chris_n |
forgetting that small caveat |
| 16:42 |
|
chris_n |
chris_n-- |
| 16:42 |
|
munin |
chris_n: Error: You're not allowed to adjust your own karma. |
| 16:43 |
|
chris_n |
at least I'm not having to explain to someone else why I deleted their data :-\ |
| 16:43 |
|
jwagner |
chris_n, you have backups, of course :-) |
| 16:45 |
|
* chris_n |
writes "I will always backup my data." 100xs instead of doing lunch :-) |
| 16:47 |
|
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Kivutar left #koha |
| 16:47 |
|
Ropuch |
;> |
| 16:51 |
|
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kf left #koha |
| 16:52 |
|
chris_n |
man do I <3 firebug... |
| 16:52 |
|
chris_n |
it just saved my data |
| 16:53 |
|
schuster |
nengard - http://millruntech.com/ |
| 16:53 |
|
schuster |
I was away in a meeting. |
| 16:53 |
|
owen |
chris_n: I once scoured the cache of multiple browsers and computers looking for a remnant of an opac customization I overwrote. |
| 16:54 |
|
nengard |
schuster - oh okay - and do you not think that belonged in there? should I have edited that out? that's kind of what I'm asking |
| 16:54 |
|
nengard |
it's Koha related news |
| 16:54 |
|
nengard |
I don't mind advertising Koha services |
| 16:55 |
|
nengard |
especially when they're from such a trusted source as Kyle and Crawford |
| 16:55 |
|
chris_n |
owen: the data was loaded, but hidden in the syspref admin form; poking around with firebug I saw it and grabbed it... |
| 16:55 |
|
* chris_n |
will now dutifully back up his data... even if it is only development data :-P |
| 17:07 |
|
gmcharlt |
nengard: *advertise* in the newsletter? that's a swamp of controversy, in my opinion; I think a news item is OK, and I don't think there is an issue with that item as such |
| 17:08 |
|
nengard |
gmcharlt advertise was a bad word - basically i didn't see that news item as a problem either |
| 17:08 |
|
nengard |
i don't mind 'mentioning' koha related services in news items - how's that for wording? |
| 17:10 |
|
gmcharlt |
I think that's OK, but be careful - it is the place of the newsletter to provide useful news, but not to go beyond that, IMO |
| 17:14 |
|
nengard |
you don't think it's 'useful' to know that crawford is now helping other libraries who want koha? or are we still talking about future articles and saying that Kyle's was a-ok? |
| 17:15 |
|
slef |
I think we're talking about future. That was OK IMO. |
| 17:15 |
|
gmcharlt |
nengard: I'm with slef |
| 17:15 |
|
* owen |
agrees |
| 17:15 |
|
nengard |
okey dokey |
| 17:15 |
|
* chris_n |
agrees |
| 17:15 |
|
nengard |
will do |
| 17:15 |
|
gmcharlt |
as I said, the news item is OK |
| 17:16 |
|
slef |
Anyone here know about KohaCon 2010 organisation or should I wait for chris to awake? |
| 17:16 |
|
gmcharlt |
slef: check with chris |
| 17:16 |
|
gmcharlt |
though IIRC, he'll take any and all help with organizing it |
| 17:17 |
|
nengard |
gmcharlt is right - chris wants any and all help |
| 17:17 |
|
slef |
most importantly, http://kohacon.appspot.com/2010/registration/ seems to be blank |
| 17:17 |
|
nengard |
and suggestions |
| 17:17 |
|
slef |
and I mean blank as in looks like crashed, not just blank as in empty page |
| 17:18 |
|
gmcharlt |
as far as the general issue goes - library willing to help others, cool - they can talk about it as much as they want; a library commercializing such help, though, is moving into vendor territory, and with respect to marketing needs to be treated as neutrally as any other |
| 17:19 |
|
slef |
I hope kyle was OK with me sneaking "reportedly its “new support company†submission form has been broken for weeks, which is irritating" into http://www.news.software.coop/[…]any-go-round/870/ |
| 17:20 |
|
slef |
I'm fine with the checking on "gets a mention in the newsletter" being much more relaxed than the checking on getting listed on koha.org, by the way. |
| 17:21 |
|
slef |
Anyone know what happened with the kudos meeting at #alamw10 and developer-members, by the way? |
| 17:21 |
|
wizzyrea |
I heard the meeting was kind of a mess :( |
| 17:21 |
|
owen |
Uh oh :( |
| 17:21 |
|
slef |
oh dear :( |
| 17:22 |
|
slef |
Last night I sent an email about it that I think I'd had in drafts for days |
| 17:22 |
|
wizzyrea |
especially in comparison to the very professionally run LL/PTFS users group meeting |
| 17:23 |
|
owen |
I didn't realize there was an official LL/PTFS users group meeting |
| 17:23 |
|
gmcharlt |
wizzyrea: speaking of which, was the LLUG run by customer libraries or by LL staff? |
| 17:23 |
|
wizzyrea |
PTFS staff, iiuc |
| 17:24 |
|
owen |
Did PTFS have their own Koha customer user group? |
| 17:24 |
|
wizzyrea |
they co-opted the LL user group meeting as their koha user group meeting, I think |
| 17:25 |
|
slef |
So, PTFS is continuing the LL community fork as well as the LL software fork? |
| 17:25 |
|
slef |
very sad :( |
| 17:26 |
|
owen |
slef: you don't you think there is a role for a vendor-based user group? |
| 17:26 |
|
slef |
owen: not in a free market, no. |
| 17:26 |
|
|
laurence left #koha |
| 17:26 |
|
* owen |
could see how they could be useful if member libraries used it to exert leverage on their vendor to affect service |
| 17:26 |
|
schuster |
nengard - sorry I was away again... I Love the newletter don't get me wrong, I know there has been LOTS of controversy dealing with vendor relations in the past and if you were on the vendor support website or not blah blah blah... and then to see the link - go there and the about us refered you back to Kyle Hall but yet that company isn't on the support sit |
| 17:26 |
|
schuster |
site yet... |
| 17:27 |
|
owen |
What vendors are and are not on the support page yet doesn't have much relation to reality. |
| 17:28 |
|
slef |
owen: I think it would be more effective if libraries formed a consumer co-op, rather than tried to hijack a vendor-controlled space. There's the perception that user groups will be closed by their sponsor if the PR from closing will be less than the PR damage the group is inflicting, which hinders free expression of users. |
| 17:29 |
|
slef |
owen: but then, there are many other problems with purchasing library silence in this market, so ... |
| 17:30 |
|
schuster |
I am not sure yet that PTFS realizes that KUDOS is INDEPENDENT of a vendor... |
| 17:30 |
|
schuster |
And we want to be that way. |
| 17:30 |
|
owen |
What do you mean they don't realize it? |
| 17:30 |
|
|
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| 17:31 |
|
schuster |
I will leave my comment about the newsletter drop now - I just wanted you to be aware of it. I remember in setting up KohaCon09 and the concerns about being as vendor neutral as possible. |
| 17:31 |
|
owen |
schuster: The present situation is a complete bizzaro-world of that time. |
| 17:32 |
|
wizzyrea |
lol, yes |
| 17:33 |
|
|
cait joined #koha |
| 17:33 |
|
cait |
hi #koha |
| 17:33 |
|
schuster |
yep - and will continue until we have some concrete items out of PTFS as to their plans. |
| 17:35 |
|
chris_n |
or concrete actions out of PTFS |
| 17:36 |
|
* chris_n |
dislikes the waiting game personally |
| 17:36 |
|
schuster |
We will be waiting until sometime in February I suspect once the actual handoff occurs - who knows maybe it won't go through. |
| 17:38 |
|
wizzyrea |
lord help us if it doesn't |
| 17:38 |
|
wizzyrea |
boy would we be screwed then |
| 17:38 |
|
schuster |
OK back to a development/setup question - has anyone here run zebra on a different server than the production apache server? |
| 17:39 |
|
chris |
slef: registration form hasnt been written yet |
| 17:39 |
|
wizzyrea |
I am sure this has been done |
| 17:39 |
|
chris |
and schuster, we STILL CANT EDIT THE WEBSITE, so the only place we can mention companies which should be on the website is the news letter |
| 17:40 |
|
|
francharb left #koha |
| 17:40 |
|
chris |
and if you remember kohacon09 was pushed to be anything but neutral, its only that others pushed back ... so lets not use what happened there .,. and the retarded pizzagate as an example |
| 17:41 |
|
wizzyrea |
lol pizzagate |
| 17:41 |
|
* chris |
catches up on scrollback |
| 17:42 |
|
hdl_laptop |
hi chris hi cait |
| 17:42 |
|
gmcharlt |
schuster: that's a possible setup, yes - you can configure Zebra to communicate over TCP/IP instead of a Unix socket |
| 17:43 |
|
hdl_laptop |
schuster: I have |
| 17:44 |
|
cait |
hi hdl_laptop |
| 17:44 |
|
slef |
chris: can we replace the blank-as-in-crashed page with a page with info about expected registration dates and prices, please? |
| 17:44 |
|
chris |
yep |
| 17:44 |
|
chris |
for the record, its free |
| 17:45 |
|
slef |
ok, thanks |
| 17:46 |
|
chris |
andy and I might try to do that during a break at the conference today, altho i already have meetings scheduled for 2 of them :) so no promises |
| 17:46 |
|
slef |
none expected |
| 17:47 |
|
slef |
other thing I'm curious about is sponsorship info: what do you need/want? |
| 17:52 |
|
chris |
ahh i have to update that too, biblibre have now promised some support |
| 17:53 |
|
chris |
any and all offers, be it a pledge of some money to help pay for the venue .. or whatever else anyone is in a position to do |
| 17:55 |
|
chris |
the venue costs about $4k nz all up |
| 17:55 |
|
chris |
i have about 1700 of that covered, and i will get my bosses to cover a decent amount too |
| 17:55 |
|
chris |
any more can be used for things like livestreaming |
| 17:56 |
|
chris |
(international bandwidth = not free) |
| 17:58 |
|
owen |
chris, you should ask participants to fill their carry-on baggage with bandwidth (in 3-oz containers obviously) |
| 17:58 |
|
chris |
heh |
| 17:58 |
|
chris |
seriously tho |
| 17:58 |
|
chris |
if we do just record |
| 17:58 |
|
chris |
and put it up later |
| 17:59 |
|
chris |
giving someone a HD to take back would probably actually be cheaper |
| 17:59 |
|
slef |
seriously - what should I be asking the co-op for? I'd rather give something useful. |
| 18:00 |
|
slef |
uploading an HD is probably simple - I'd probably land in London not that far from our data centre |
| 18:01 |
|
chris |
would the co-op be in the position to offer say 200 pounds? |
| 18:02 |
|
chris |
with that we could get snacks and drinks for the 3 days easily |
| 18:03 |
|
slef |
I think so, but I don't know what other plans members have for the community budget, so I'll ask. |
| 18:03 |
|
owen |
I could go for 200 pounds of snacks...must be lunchtime. |
| 18:03 |
|
gmcharlt |
chris: if we just do recordings, is there anybody known to be good at video editing? if not, and the co-op can help with that, that might be an option for in-kind support, |
| 18:03 |
|
chris_n |
lol :-) |
| 18:03 |
|
chris |
that would be cool |
| 18:03 |
|
chris |
ahhh yeah, excellent idea |
| 18:03 |
|
* gmcharlt |
is just tossing ideas around willy-nilly |
| 18:03 |
|
chris |
yeah ideas are good |
| 18:04 |
|
slef |
video editing causes me problems (eyesight and relevant hardware too far apart) but I'll ask the others |
| 18:05 |
|
chris |
slef: speaking of eyesight i went to a great session on accessability and free software |
| 18:05 |
|
slef |
cool... I should check out some videos. |
| 18:06 |
|
chris |
http://accessibility.net.nz/ |
| 18:08 |
|
slef |
ok, I've proposed those sponsorship ideas and I'll get a reply in due course |
| 18:08 |
|
nengard |
owen is silly |
| 18:08 |
|
nengard |
sorry - just catching up |
| 18:08 |
|
nengard |
:) |
| 18:08 |
|
owen |
I'm blaming the hunger |
| 18:09 |
|
chris |
thanks slef |
| 18:11 |
|
schuster |
What you didn't like my non professional videos that I put in the archive of the sessions? |
| 18:12 |
|
schuster |
It was enough for me to get them digitized! |
| 18:14 |
|
chris |
hehe |
| 18:14 |
|
nengard |
Well - we certainly need a digital video recorder this time around |
| 18:14 |
|
nengard |
that would make things easier in the long run |
| 18:14 |
|
chris |
they were good, you could have done some editing work on my abs |
| 18:14 |
|
chris |
though |
| 18:14 |
|
nengard |
LOL |
| 18:15 |
|
chris |
i was talkng to the ppl doing the filming at LCA, its all digital, im hoping to get them to do kohacon as well |
| 18:16 |
|
schuster |
There's professional and then there's free... Key is to record the screen not the speaker too much in my experience on tech conferences. |
| 18:17 |
|
nengard |
schuster - but what is the screen is boring? |
| 18:17 |
|
nengard |
usually my screens are boring - what matters is what i'm saying |
| 18:17 |
|
slef |
I have a DV cam, but it's pretty small and old. |
| 18:17 |
|
slef |
The ideal would be a set up like Debconf VideoTeam |
| 18:17 |
|
nengard |
i might be able to borrow a Flip --- but I don't know how much they store |
| 18:21 |
|
* owen |
could lend one |
| 18:26 |
|
|
sekjal joined #koha |
| 18:26 |
|
chris |
heya sekjal |
| 18:26 |
|
sekjal |
hey chris |
| 18:30 |
|
sekjal |
so, I wanted to let everyone in here know that I'm working on drafting up a report on the KUDOS meeting last Saturday. Vicki took the notes, and is in transit today, so I'm waiting on her to be sure I got it all correct in my head |
| 18:31 |
|
owen |
Thanks sekjal |
| 18:32 |
|
sekjal |
I wanted to address the concerns folks had on the listserv about the membership language we had distributed last week |
| 18:33 |
|
|
jdavidb left #koha |
| 18:35 |
|
sekjal |
anyway, the end result is the bylaws will be inclusive for membership of both users and developers, with no "non-voting member" class |
| 18:36 |
|
chris |
thats great news |
| 18:38 |
|
sekjal |
we were trying hard to avoid a situation where there'd be a conflict of interest; the IRS is really strict about that in non-profits these days |
| 18:39 |
|
gmcharlt |
sekjal++ |
| 18:40 |
|
sekjal |
but we determined that could be more effectively handled at the policy level than the bylaws level, since we'll have to submit conflict of interest policy document, in either case |
| 18:42 |
|
chris |
makes sense |
| 18:43 |
|
sekjal |
Once Vicki gets safely back, we can get her notes summed up and distributed. I just wanted to say something quickly to address the concerns of the community |
| 18:43 |
|
chris |
thanks for that |
| 18:49 |
|
|
gmcharlt left #koha |
| 18:50 |
|
chris |
ok bus time |
| 18:50 |
|
chris |
bbl |
| 18:51 |
|
sekjal |
later, chris |
| 19:04 |
|
chris_n |
sekjal: tnx |
| 19:10 |
|
|
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| 19:18 |
|
slef |
sekjal: thanks. If it's anything like the UK, as long as the non-profit is not engaging in trading, it's actually fine and people are a lot more scared about it than they need to be, which ends up in needlessly discriminating against the working class. |
| 19:23 |
|
sekjal |
the goal is for KUDOS to eventually receive grant money for developing Koha, and solicit bids from developers to do the work. so long as people aren't in a position where they can award themselves any of the money, we should be just fine |
| 19:31 |
|
|
richard joined #koha |
| 19:31 |
|
richard |
hi |
| 19:33 |
|
chris_n |
howdy richard |
| 19:33 |
|
richard |
hiya chris_n |
| 20:03 |
|
chris |
back |
| 20:04 |
|
richard |
hi chris |
| 20:16 |
|
chris |
bob from calyx just won a netbook |
| 20:16 |
|
sekjal |
nice! congrats to bob |
| 20:17 |
|
chris |
i won a book yesterday, koha is cleaning up at linux conf :) |
| 20:17 |
|
wizzyrea |
hehe nice |
| 20:18 |
|
chris_n |
neat |
| 20:18 |
|
Ropuch |
:) |
| 20:19 |
|
chris |
benjamin 'mako' hill up now |
| 20:20 |
|
chris |
http://www.lca2010.org.nz/prog[…]chedule/video/mfc |
| 20:20 |
|
chris |
talking about freedom |
| 20:20 |
|
chris |
i recommend if yu have the time, to watch it, he is a super smart guy |
| 20:23 |
|
wizzyrea |
oh I was finally kind of able to get the 56k stream |
| 20:23 |
|
chris |
they are all being recorded to |
| 20:23 |
|
chris |
o |
| 20:28 |
|
|
jdavidb left #koha |
| 20:31 |
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Nate left #koha |
| 20:32 |
|
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bebbi joined #koha |
| 20:34 |
|
chris_n |
owen: would you believe that the 'content: ".";' issue is firebug related? |
| 20:34 |
|
owen |
Oh yeah? |
| 20:36 |
|
chris_n |
switched FB off and the "." worked as advertised |
| 20:36 |
|
chris_n |
switched it on and had various problems with the first block being positioned incorrectly |
| 20:44 |
|
|
richard is now known as rich-away |
| 20:53 |
|
|
nengard left #koha |
| 20:54 |
|
|
jwagner left #koha |
| 20:54 |
|
SelfishMan |
What is the latest official release? |
| 20:54 |
|
wizzyrea |
3.0.5 |
| 20:55 |
|
SelfishMan |
That's what I thought. |
| 20:55 |
|
SelfishMan |
3.0.4 is the latest on koha.org but that didn't seem right |
| 20:55 |
|
chris |
its worse than that |
| 20:55 |
|
chris |
go to the download page on there |
| 20:55 |
|
chris |
it points you to 3.0.2 |
| 20:56 |
|
SelfishMan |
Worse is that I'm trying to support someone running 3.01.00.009 |
| 20:57 |
|
chris |
yeah, thats not even 3.0.x |
| 20:57 |
|
chris |
thats like early early 3.2.x |
| 20:57 |
|
SelfishMan |
former liblime contract |
| 20:57 |
|
wizzyrea |
HAHA shock. |
| 20:57 |
|
chris |
ah that would explain it |
| 20:57 |
|
wizzyrea |
I think that's only a little behind where we are |
| 20:58 |
|
wizzyrea |
well, "a little" = 60 or so DB revisions |
| 20:58 |
|
schuster |
nengard - flips that we have each hold 1 hour and we didn't have them last year when I DV'd all of that. Then I had to get it off the DV into a usable format for the web. |
| 20:59 |
|
SelfishMan |
this whole thing is a mess and I'm beyond fed up with it |
| 20:59 |
|
chris |
you and me both |
| 20:59 |
|
SelfishMan |
fscking politics |
| 20:59 |
|
wizzyrea |
You should blog about the bad situation you've been put in :P |
| 20:59 |
|
chris |
its not even that, its greed |
| 20:59 |
|
wizzyrea |
by them |
| 20:59 |
|
chris |
there are no politics involved |
| 21:00 |
|
chris |
there is a landgrab .. and people trying to resist that |
| 21:00 |
|
chris |
and ppl sitting on the fence |
| 21:00 |
|
schuster |
conference stuff - Screen captures are good with voiceover - when I digitized I enhanced the sound quality before exporting them. |
| 21:00 |
|
SelfishMan |
greed is a better definition |
| 21:01 |
|
chris |
hopefully the soon to be owners of LL .. will realise the good business decision is to return to the model that got LL to where it was, before it forked and imploded |
| 21:01 |
|
SelfishMan |
wizzyrea: not worth blogging about. |
| 21:01 |
|
chris |
i hope they are smart enough too, otherwise i fear for LL clients |
| 21:01 |
|
SelfishMan |
not when choosing not to renew a contract and very carefully stating why is so much more effective |
| 21:02 |
|
chris |
SelfishMan++ |
| 21:03 |
|
SelfishMan |
the question is if the new owners will carry the self-hosted people with support contracts |
| 21:03 |
|
chris_n |
non-renewal++ |
| 21:03 |
|
* chris_n |
has encouraged a client he does work for to do the same when the contract is up |
| 21:03 |
|
chris_n |
what marc field are tags stored in by koha? |
| 21:04 |
|
chris |
im not sure they are stored in any |
| 21:04 |
|
chris |
but i might be wrong |
| 21:04 |
|
chris_n |
hmm... "-t TTT to define the MARC fields/subfield to use to fill the tag cloud. If not defined, the cloud table won't be filled." |
| 21:04 |
|
chris_n |
from build_browser_and_cloud.pl |
| 21:06 |
|
|
nicomo left #koha |
| 21:10 |
|
schuster |
SelfishMan++ I am selfhosted... |
| 21:10 |
|
schuster |
They already have a couple Middletown I believe is self hosted they tried the cloud and it was tooo slow for them. |
| 21:11 |
|
SelfishMan |
schuster: we have major bandwidth issues at my library so I had to deploy in house for the catalog to even be acessible |
| 21:11 |
|
SelfishMan |
I ned a new keyboard |
| 21:11 |
|
schuster |
chris_n I believe that was an item Biblibre designed??? |
| 21:11 |
|
wizzyrea |
that is a compelling reason to host internal |
| 21:12 |
|
schuster |
That was the exact reason we host internally. We have a huge pipe, but when everyone is doing pandora it becomes a very full pipe. I don't want to compete and our networking people won't "carve" for specific purposes. |
| 21:14 |
|
wizzyrea |
We have 30 geographically separate libraries using the same catalog, it's a compelling reason to cloud host. |
| 21:14 |
|
schuster |
What I'm trying to get around is why we have items that are not getting checked in. We have a very busy morning daily and 3-5 items depending on the day don't get checked in even when the librarian |
| 21:14 |
|
wizzyrea |
with 30 different ISP's |
| 21:14 |
|
schuster |
swears they saw every title come up on the screen. When it is multiple campus' I tend to believe the librarians. |
| 21:14 |
|
SelfishMan |
wizzyrea: the cloud makes sense for that |
| 21:14 |
|
chris |
yeah thats a bug, the fix is to make the title not show up until it is verified being returned |
| 21:15 |
|
chris |
speeding up is just glossing over the problem |
| 21:15 |
|
schuster |
wizzyrea - yes that also makes your life easier in dealing with servers and pointing the finger - can you get to google? no then call your isp... |
| 21:15 |
|
chris |
because then it will just occur less frequently |
| 21:15 |
|
chris |
ok gotta go talk to ppl irl |
| 21:15 |
|
chris |
back later |
| 21:15 |
|
wizzyrea |
ooh, the morning tea break |
| 21:16 |
|
* owen |
knows not this "irl" you speak of. Until quitting time. |
| 21:16 |
|
schuster |
OK - thanks chris I understand what you are saying... need both though!!! speed to deal with the verification. |
| 21:16 |
|
wizzyrea |
schuster: definitely. I think if we self hosted we would still cloud host it |
| 21:16 |
|
wizzyrea |
wowie, our local ISP has the worst on hold music ever |
| 21:16 |
|
wizzyrea |
it's like a kids lullaby cd or something |
| 21:17 |
|
wizzyrea |
not that those aren't wonderful, but it's kind of annoying hold music, mostly because flutes don't translate so well over the phone |
| 21:18 |
|
Ropuch |
I'm gonna make "Worst on-hold music of teh decade" some day ;. |
| 21:19 |
|
chris_n |
schuster: I think tags were done by LL iirc |
| 21:20 |
|
chris_n |
bbl |
| 21:20 |
|
owen |
tags yes, but I think build_browser_and_cloud.pl looks at subject headings |
| 21:26 |
|
|
rich-away is now known as richard |
| 21:26 |
|
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collum left #koha |
| 21:29 |
|
hdl_laptop |
chris_n those tage you are referring to are merly subjects in the biblio displayed as tag cloud. |
| 21:29 |
|
hdl_laptop |
Nothing to do with user tagging |
| 21:30 |
|
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owen left #koha |
| 21:32 |
|
hdl_laptop |
I have to go to bed. |
| 21:37 |
|
schuster |
jwagner around? |
| 21:38 |
|
schuster |
drat missed her. |
| 21:44 |
|
schuster |
ok wizzyrea - I think I've asked you this, but need to bring it back to the forfront. |
| 21:46 |
|
schuster |
Do you have specific instructions on things you do when you add another location? Instructions written down? |
| 21:47 |
|
schuster |
I know it is a matter of "just adding another location" but wanted to make sure there aren't other things that need to be "setup" |
| 21:50 |
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wizzyrea |
ooh, good question. Let me ask my folks |
| 21:50 |
|
wizzyrea |
I think we do |
| 21:50 |
|
wizzyrea |
one sec |
| 21:52 |
|
schuster |
peeps I love having peeps... |
| 21:53 |
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wizzyrea |
schuster: check your PMS |
| 21:53 |
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wizzyrea |
PMs. Criminy |
| 21:53 |
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chris |
tell people that, loudly, ... seriously cutting off peeps is the danger we face |
| 21:53 |
|
wizzyrea |
it really is |
| 21:53 |
|
wizzyrea |
and I lurve my koha peeps |
| 21:55 |
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wizzyrea |
I have an impatient: schuster! |
| 21:56 |
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| 21:59 |
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schuster |
nengard is back be careful what you say! |
| 21:59 |
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schuster |
Kidding... ;) |
| 22:01 |
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| 22:01 |
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| 22:03 |
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chris |
back in atlanta gmcharlt ? |
| 22:04 |
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gmcharlt |
chris: back home in Gainesville |
| 22:04 |
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chris |
ahhh ssh'd into work eh? the usermask through me off |
| 22:04 |
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chris |
threw |
| 22:08 |
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| 22:09 |
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| 22:11 |
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| 22:14 |
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cait |
night #koha |
| 22:14 |
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| 22:16 |
|
magnus |
chris: i just turned on memcached, but it doesn't seem to have much impact. is there a good way to verify if its working? |
| 22:16 |
|
chris |
yes |
| 22:17 |
|
chris |
it wont do anything for a start, unless you edit your koha-conf.xml |
| 22:17 |
|
schuster |
thanks all... have a great evening/day |
| 22:17 |
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chris |
but if you have done that |
| 22:17 |
|
chris |
to verify it is doing something |
| 22:17 |
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| 22:17 |
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chris |
telnet 127.0.0.1 11211 |
| 22:18 |
|
magnus |
memcached_servers should/could look like 127.0.0.2:11211 ? |
| 22:19 |
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chris |
then type stats |
| 22:19 |
|
chris |
yeah |
| 22:19 |
|
magnus |
-bash: telnet: command not found :-( |
| 22:19 |
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chris |
heh |
| 22:19 |
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chris |
apt-get install telnet |
| 22:20 |
|
magnus |
hm "STAT get_hits 0" doesn't sound too promising... |
| 22:21 |
|
chris |
<memcached_servers>127.0.0.2:11211</memcached_servers> |
| 22:21 |
|
chris |
ack session finished, need to walk |
| 22:22 |
|
magnus |
walk the walk! ;-) |
| 22:24 |
|
magnus |
oh well, time for bed anyways, will investigate more tomorrow. g'night, folks |
| 22:24 |
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| 22:27 |
|
* chris_n2 |
puts flounder in the oven |
| 22:27 |
|
chris |
ok back sitting down again |
| 22:30 |
|
chris |
next talk is "Which databases solve my problem - a survey of open source databases" |
| 22:33 |
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| 22:34 |
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| 22:37 |
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wizzyrea |
Ahh, that sounds interesting |
| 22:37 |
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wizzyrea |
Noooo... not flounder! |
| 22:37 |
|
* wizzyrea |
is reminded of The Little Mermaid and winces a little |
| 22:50 |
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chris |
things to read about, Cassandra, HBase and Riak |
| 22:50 |
|
* chris |
uses #koha to take notes |
| 22:51 |
|
chris_n2 |
wizzyrea: this is flounder made from whatever was in the fridge on the fly |
| 22:58 |
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wizzyrea |
she is very droll |
| 22:58 |
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wizzyrea |
er |
| 22:58 |
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wizzyrea |
no droll is not the word |
| 22:58 |
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wizzyrea |
monotone |
| 22:58 |
|
wizzyrea |
dull? |
| 22:58 |
|
wizzyrea |
good info, but dull |
| 22:58 |
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chris |
selena? |
| 22:58 |
|
wizzyrea |
yea |
| 22:58 |
|
wizzyrea |
at least over the webcast |
| 22:58 |
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chris |
in person too |
| 22:58 |
|
wizzyrea |
haha |
| 22:58 |
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chris |
being a presenter is hard |
| 22:59 |
|
wizzyrea |
extremely |
| 22:59 |
|
chris |
just knowing your subject is like 5% |
| 22:59 |
|
wizzyrea |
esp on tech stuff |
| 22:59 |
|
chris |
the rest is charisma |
| 22:59 |
|
chris |
(either real or faked) :) |
| 22:59 |
|
wizzyrea |
hehe |
| 23:00 |
|
wizzyrea |
she makes me feel yawny |
| 23:00 |
|
wizzyrea |
cool hair though |
| 23:00 |
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chris |
its 15 mins til lunch time, im hungry :) |
| 23:00 |
|
wizzyrea |
ooh, last presenter before lunch, that's a tough spot |
| 23:00 |
|
chris |
yep |
| 23:00 |
|
wizzyrea |
just like the first post lunch spot |
| 23:00 |
|
chris |
it has given me lots of things to read about though |
| 23:01 |
|
wizzyrea |
yeah def |
| 23:01 |
|
wizzyrea |
thx for sending me the stream link, lots of good stuff going on down there |
| 23:02 |
|
chris |
no problem |
| 23:08 |
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| 23:10 |
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| 23:10 |
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chris |
ok, shutting the laptop, back later |
| 23:15 |
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| 23:15 |
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chris_n2 |
heya pianohackr|work |
| 23:19 |
|
pianohackr|work |
Hi, chris_n2 |
| 23:32 |
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moodaepo |
@wunder 56001 |
| 23:32 |
|
munin |
moodaepo: The current temperature in Mankato, Minnesota is -6.0�C (5:15 PM CST on January 19, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: -7.0�C. Windchill: -12.0�C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Steady). |
| 23:53 |
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| 23:53 |
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| 23:54 |
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pianohackr|work |
Does anyone else have a laptop that intermittently freezes whenever something's inserted in one of the USB buses? |
| 23:55 |
|
pianohackr|work |
That sledgehammer in the closet is looking more and more tempting |
| 23:59 |
|
chris_n2 |
hehe |
