IRC log for #koha, 2009-06-25

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:02 jwagner Sorry, been off on another screen.  Good morning.
12:10 hdl_laptop hi jwagner
12:21 |Lupin| how can one print debigging information in a koha script, please ?
12:21 |Lupin| so that the info is displayed in the webpage, for instance...
13:38 ebegin good morning #koha
13:38 |Lupin| hi ebegin
13:38 ebegin salut Lupin
13:40 ebegin Anybody here is  (or has clients) using kits.  I mean multiple biblio that are regroup in a kit that can be borrow?
13:48 |Lupin| <div id="breadcrumbs"><a href="/cgi-bin/koha/">...
13:48 |Lupin| I am wondering what breadcrumbs means...
13:48 |Lupin| does somebody know the meaning, please ?
13:54 owen Hi |Lupin|
13:54 owen breadcrumbs refers to a type of navigation system
13:55 owen The reference is to the fairy tale about Hansel and Gretel, where the children leave breadcrumbs along the path to find their way back
13:55 owen Breadcrumb navigation shows you the links to navigate back up the hierarchy from where you are
13:56 |Lupin| owen: okay, understood, at least for the fairy tale part. What's the connection with the navigation system, though ?
13:56 |Lupin| owen: ah okay, I see
13:56 |Lupin| actually
13:56 |Lupin| I was trying to figure out how to implement a "Skip to content" link on top of each page
13:57 |Lupin| to make navigation a bit easier for visually impaired persons
13:57 |Lupin| I think bascaly the only thing that needs to be done is to add a link to headerinc
13:58 |Lupin| the only problem is to find out an appropriate target. Perhaps a div should be added on purpose to each page
14:00 owen Sounds like a daunting task, but doing a quick inspection of staff client pages doesn't show me any good consistent ID one could use
14:02 |Lupin| owen: I came to a similar conclusion
14:03 |Lupin| owen: firs I thought the div could be added at the end of, and closed at the begin of
14:03 |Lupin| owen: but there is content one may want to skip in the pages, after the header. Too bad.
14:03 owen Yes, it depends very much on the function of each page
14:05 |Lupin| yep
14:06 |Lupin| koha/koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules$ find . -name '*.tmpl' | wc -l
14:06 |Lupin| 361
14:06 |Lupin| so that's a lot of work...
14:13 ebegin Lupin, in french, a breadcrumbs would be a "fil d'arianne
14:14 |Lupin| ebegin: oh really ? I would have translated it by miettes de pain, which, given the context, makes as much sense to me as "fil d'ariane"
14:14 gmcharlt Ariadne's thread?
14:16 ebegin It basically the same idea than Hansem & Gretel & Pretzel :)
14:18 ebegin Arianne was the daughter of King Minos, in greek mythology.  She was living a string in a labyrinth to prevent Thesee from being lost.
14:19 ebegin gmcharlt, Arianne is also Ariadne in english
14:20 gmcharlt that's what I thought (I knew the myth; French, not so much)
14:20 ebegin :)
14:21 |Lupin| gmcharlt: did you see the conversation about the "skip to content" feature ?
14:23 gmcharlt |Lupin|: yes
14:24 SirStan Is a "skip to content" a usability best practice?
14:24 SirStan I can't say I have seen it used uniformly.
14:24 gmcharlt may be an opportunity to apply even more structure to the template include files
14:24 gmcharlt but could be rather a lot of templates to touch, as owen says
14:26 soul9 hey everyone ☺
14:26 ebegin |Lupin|, what about setting a variable giving the target div?
14:27 ebegin hi soul9
14:27 SirStan ebegin: hackery.
14:27 owen ...and just as much effort, no?
14:27 SirStan and would concievably require the same amount of work ... you still need to figureo ut what templates aer used where, and what id's are the "content".
14:27 SirStan and be impossible to maintain
14:27 ebegin @roulette
14:27 munin ebegin: *click*
14:27 ebegin ouf. :)
14:30 |Lupin| gmcharlt: yes, 361 templates for the staff client, if my count is correct
14:30 |Lupin| actually the bigest directory is the help
14:30 |Lupin| perhaps there is some structure there, I didn't check
14:30 |Lupin| obviously for one person it would be a lot of work
14:31 |Lupin| but perhaps the work could be shared among several volounteers
14:31 gmcharlt |Lupin|: doing that for help would be pretty, actually - not much of a header in the help popus
14:31 |Lupin| perhaps this could be discussed during the next Koha meeting...
14:31 gmcharlt *pretty easy
14:31 gmcharlt |Lupin|: yep, can be, although i suggest also starting a thread on koha-devel before the meeting
14:31 |Lupin| gmcharlt: ok! help represents half of the templates...
14:32 |Lupin| okay
14:32 |Lupin| I'll subscribe and start it...
15:24 Snow_Fox hey quick question, from my understanding koha sends out a email for over due notices and someone else is working on a html dump, where is the setting to give koha the email it needs to send those and where can i find the setting for the admin email dump when the patron doesnt have a email
15:26 owen Those notices are either sent to the KohaAdminEmailAddress or to the email address configured for the individual branches (if present)
16:16 |Lupin| hi again
16:16 |Lupin| our network was down for a while
16:22 gmcharlt hi |Lupin|, thanks for sending the email
16:24 |Lupin| gmcharlt: no problem ! It's normal if I want things to go in a positive direction :-)
16:36 |Lupin| atz: here ?
16:36 atz ?
16:36 |Lupin| atz: I'm the one who posted the mail you replied to
16:37 |Lupin| (on the koha list)
16:37 atz ah, ok
16:37 atz did it make sense?
16:37 |Lupin| I do not expect koha to know where the files will be stored
16:37 |Lupin| the URL is indeed derived from the book biblionumber, asyou say,
16:37 |Lupin| so the plugin thing may be wht I'm looking for
16:38 |Lupin| atz: yes, the end of your mail made sense to me. Regarding he beginning, I think it was a bit misunderstandign the question
16:39 |Lupin| atz: not throwing the fault on you by saying that, I realize my mail may have been rather obscure
16:39 atz no problem
16:40 atz i think your use case is a bit unusual
16:40 |Lupin| atz: do you think you know understand my question ?
16:41 atz at least partially.... you still haven't decided what system will store the actual content/files, right?
16:41 |Lupin| atz: yes it is, and that's why we are pretty sure we _will_ have to modify KOha to achieve our goals. We don't expect the mainstream koha to fullfill ll our requirements. We just think it's the closest thing we can find
16:41 atz there has been some documented work with using Kete and Koha together
16:41 |Lupin| atz: we have.
16:41 atz Kete allows robust document metadata
16:41 |Lupin| atz: we already have a home-made file server
16:41 |Lupin| and
16:42 |Lupin| at least as a first step
16:42 |Lupin| we'd like to keep it
16:42 atz ok, so the question is whether the file location on your server is deterministic or not
16:42 atz what rules govern the location?
16:42 |Lupin| then, once the web part has been re-donce with Koha, we will study the file server issue and decide whether we should keep our own or find one we could use
16:43 atz that seems fine, though you may have to rebuild the integration
16:43 |Lupin| atz: it is deterministic
16:43 |Lupin| and we have a script that is in charge of talking to our file server
16:43 |Lupin| by script I mean a CGI perl script
16:43 |Lupin| atz: ye, we realize that.
16:44 atz so if you can write script (javascript) to produce the same deterministic location, then you can put that in a 856 plugin
16:44 |Lupin| so the URLs we want to have in the bib records are just to call this script with the right parameters
16:44 |Lupin| and it will then talk to the file server
16:44 |Lupin| atz: okay.
16:45 |Lupin| atz: Actually I'd prefer an solution that is not javascript base, because I'm a lynx user and Javascript won't be very easy for me to test
16:45 |Lupin| atz: I'd prefer a solution in the Perl scripts..
16:45 |Lupin| would that be completely non-sense ?
16:46 atz the plugin is generated by perl, but outputs javascript that is included in the cataloging page
16:46 |Lupin| If you think it would, well, I'll probably have to dig into the javascript thing...
16:46 |Lupin| atz: ok
16:46 |Lupin| atz: still I would not be able to test it by myself...
16:47 atz true, you will need a modern browser to test
16:47 |Lupin| atz: on another side I perfectly understand why doing it in Javascript would make sense
16:47 atz there may be other means, but I would avoid trying to hack "inside" the cataloging code
16:47 atz the plugin structure is the cleaner way to go
16:48 atz and then you don't have to worry about future updates merging badly
16:48 |Lupin| atz: there is no structured and trust-worthy perl API ?
16:48 atz in what regard?  there is an API, but the MARC editor is *very* tricky
16:48 |Lupin| atz: yes, I understand your point very well
16:49 atz it has to do a lot, and everybody wants 100 different configurations, so it is very depended on Frameworks
16:49 atz *dependent
16:49 |Lupin| what are frameworks ?
16:49 atz frameworks define the relationship between Koha DB structure and MARC records
16:50 |Lupin| ah
16:50 atz among other things, they control what fields show up or are required in the MARC editor
16:50 |Lupin| it's koha => MARC mappings you are talking about ?
16:51 atz yes, but the arrow goes both ways  :)
16:51 |Lupin| right
16:52 |Lupin| atz: care there documentations about the plugin system, please ?
16:54 atz not enough docs, unfortunately
16:55 |Lupin| okay, too bad
16:55 |Lupin| perhaps a starting point in the git tree ?
16:55 atz cataloguing/value_builder/
16:55 atz is an example of one
16:57 |Lupin| atz: okay, thanks
16:57 |Lupin| atz: and form within the plugin, you have access to, e.g., the biblionumber that has been associated to the record by koha ?
17:03 atz yes
17:06 |Lupin| atz: okay.
17:06 |Lupin| thanks a lot for your help joe
17:06 |Lupin| awesome conversation
17:06 |Lupin| c u later all, bye !
17:31 vedran is it possible to install KOHA on Linux machines with powerpc processor. I have opensuse ppc anwith php, perl, apache, mysql etc.
17:56 gmcharlt vedran: should be possible
17:57 gmcharlt vedran: only likely difference is that certain packages such Yaz and Zebra may need to be compiled from source
18:58 owen Hi schuster
18:59 schuster Howdy!
19:00 schuster So I have a question about the student XSLT...  If we needed to have the place of publication to show on the display from the 260 along with the publisher would that be hard?
19:00 schuster Student being public OPAC view
19:01 schuster For a bibliography that is all that is currently missing from that screen for citing a source.
19:01 owen You talking about the detail page?
19:01 schuster Currently in the summary or Detail it does not show.
19:03 owen Looks like it's a one-character change in the XSL file
19:04 owen Line 178 of MARC21slim2OPACDetail.xsl:
19:04 owen <xsl:with-param name="codes">bcg</xsl:with-param>
19:04 owen That's telling it to display subfields b, c, and/or g
19:04 owen If you change it to "abcg" it shows the location
19:05 owen Same for the search results, MARC21slim2OPACResults.xsl, on line 805
19:21 schuster hmmm interesting - when I changed that nothing happened - do you know how they are tracking at LibLime local customizations ?  I am looking at that file in the
19:23 schuster tmpl-custom/pisd-opac/en/xslt
19:23 schuster Is it located someplace else?
19:23 owen Sorry, I don't have any idea :(
19:23 schuster hmm will look further thanks for the suggestion!
19:35 schuster OK found it... thanks for the help...  Where's the "That was EASY" button!  WHOO WHO!
19:42 wizzyrea_away schuster: someone told me way back that the xslt templates were hard coded and they'd always use prog, but if you solved it then that's probably no longer the case
19:42 wizzyrea_away so YAY
19:42 wizzyrea_away :)
19:48 joetho thanks liz- got it
19:48 wizzyrea_away yepper
20:10 schuster The staff templates are hard coded and are NOT editable, but the OPAC XSLT's are...
20:19 chris morning
20:31 chris @wunder wellington, new zealand
20:31 munin chris: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 8.0°C (8:00 AM NZST on June 25, 2009). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Windchill: 5.0°C. Pressure: 30.21 in 1023 hPa (Falling).
20:31 chris blue skies out there, gonna be an alright winter day i think
20:34 richard hi
20:41 chris morning richard
21:02 joetho good morning southerners.
21:08 chris hi joetho
21:42 wizzyrea it was 40ºC here earlier... too hot
21:42 wizzyrea AGAIN.
21:44 chris stink
22:05 schuster Question about Marc Export and Authorities.  When I export my database the $9892343 numbers are exporting on the bib as well.  Is there a way to not export that info?
22:05 schuster Sorry as part of the 650 subjects
22:11 pianohacker good afternoon, #koha
22:12 chris hiya pianohacker
22:12 pianohacker hey
22:12 pianohacker How are things in your part of the world?
22:13 chris not bad, crisp winter day
22:13 chris 2nd to last day of my paternity leave
22:14 pianohacker Hah, crisp winter day. On vacation in Carlsbad, NM, where you have to run the A/C 24/7
22:15 pianohacker Pile of work waiting for you? I always am just a bit afraid to go on vacation
22:16 chris undoubtedly a big pile
22:16 chris not gonna look :)
22:16 pianohacker Hehe
22:16 pianohacker Had any chance to play with Template::Toolkit?
22:22 chris havent got much further
22:23 chris[…]oha/;
22:29 gmcharlt code, no templates
22:29 pianohacker Hmm
22:35 chris hehe yeah
22:35 chris i was waiting for pianohacker to magically make me a template
22:35 chris hehe
22:35 pianohacker I am working on a sed script as we speak
22:36 chris sweet :)
22:36 pianohacker Learning the quirks of yet another regex engine
22:36 chris i often give up and end up doing something with bash and perl
22:36 pianohacker Heh. Yeah
22:41 chris[…]ng-in-a-team.html
22:42 chris you still sick jo?
22:44 Jo nope
22:44 Jo well not really
22:44 Jo at work today
22:44 Jo all that horrible printer mess still has to be sorted out ..
22:44 Jo it didn't fix itself wehile I was sick !
22:44 pianohacker Hmm, barrier. Template::Toolkit requires [% FOREACH item IN loop %][% item.var %] rather than just plain [% var %]
22:45 pianohacker Near as I can tell
22:45 chris yep
22:46 chris it's all objecty
22:46 chris :)
22:46 chris maybe we should just take a crack with opac-main to start
22:47 chris i might try to do that today
22:47 hdl_laptop pianohacker: it seems though that you can define a view for an object.
22:47 hdl_laptop and use that.
22:48 pianohacker hdl_laptop: Hmm, I see the section on VIEWs, but am not sure how it applies
22:49 hdl_laptop mc khatar could tell you more about that.
22:49 hdl_laptop But he is asleep at the moment
22:50 pianohacker k
22:55 pianohacker Only 328 unique names for TMPL_LOOPS; I could make a dictionary mapping loop names to loop item names=
22:55 pianohacker Based on my work with the sysprefs editor, I have an odd love for tedious rewriting work
23:18 chris sorry was attacked by midwives
23:18 chris back now
23:53 pianohacker1 Bye, #koha
23:54 chris that dude rules
00:27 brendan @wunder 93117
00:27 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 19.9°C (5:22 PM PDT on June 24, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 29.90 in 1012.4 hPa (Falling).
00:28 Jo Chris: code4lib paper delayed -maybe tomorrow maybe monday
00:31 chris cripes
00:33 chris i guess thats the bonus with online journal
00:34 chris deadlines can be pushed out
00:39 brendan hey Jo chris -- how goes the winter?
00:40 brendan I've got nice sunshine shine here ;)
00:40 brendan had to say shine twice it's so nice
00:51 chris heh
02:47 brendan @later tell amit hi
02:47 munin brendan: The operation succeeded.
03:26 Amit hi chris, brendan
03:26 Amit good morning #koha
03:27 Amit munin: what command r u typing
03:27 munin Amit: downloading the Perl source
03:27 Amit hi munin
03:29 Amit hi Jo
03:34 Amit_ Amit_ is known as Amit
03:40 Jo Hi Amit, Brendan, et al
06:18 chris evening
06:32 eiro hello
07:00 chris hi nicomo
07:00 nicomo hi chris
07:00 nicomo hello everyone
07:03 chris hmm dinner time, bbiab
07:06 hdl_laptop hi
07:18 chris back
07:26 Amit_ hi nicomo
07:26 nicomo hi Amit_
07:29 chris cya mason
07:32 Amit_ cya mason
07:33 Amit_ hi nahuel
07:33 nahuel hi all :)
07:33 chris hi nahuel
07:43 |Lupin| hello, everybody
07:44 hdl_laptop hi |Lupin|
07:45 chris hi |Lupin|
07:45 chris i like your accessibility idea
07:47 |Lupin| chris: thanks !
07:48 |Lupin| it'd be very nice to have this link actually. I'm loosing a certain amount of time when I'm in the staff client to find the real beginning of the page (using lynx to connect to it)
07:49 chris *nod*
07:54 |Lupin| chris: yesterday Joe suggested to use the plugins mechanism to fill some mMARC fields automatically. I realize that given Koha's architecture it may be the right place, but that'd mean the mechanism wouldn't work with browsers without Javascript. What do you think ? Can you think about another way to automatically fill some fields ?
07:56 chris the plugins only work with javascript?
07:59 hdl_laptop plugins are called via js.
07:59 hdl_laptop on events
07:59 chris dang
08:00 chris i bet we could have a no js syspref
08:01 chris and make it check that, if its set no js, make the plugin run automagically
08:01 chris 98.74645% of ppl would leave it set on
08:01 chris but itd be nice to be able to make critical parts be able to work without js
08:03 chris the problem is, it would be hard to find a sponsor to pay someone to do that
08:04 chris so it would have to be mostly voluntary
08:04 |Lupin| chris: that'd be really cool indeed... just wondering whether the developers will really find the time and ressources to implement such a feature for less than 2% of the users. Also, it looks as a solution which will work at some point in the future. I will have to find one which works now. I guess I'll have to install gnome, firefox and try to live with it.
08:05 chris yep, things like that unfortunately have to annoy someone enough for them to want to fix it
08:05 chris because its unlikely a library will ask them to do it
08:05 |Lupin| chris: agreed
08:06 chris |Lupin|: slef may be your ally in this
08:07 chris he has a big interest in accessibility
08:10 |Lupin| chris: oh yes ? many thanks for the information !
08:10 |Lupin| chris: do you know what makes he being interested in the topic ?
08:11 chris i know that he hates captchas with a passion :) he has a visual impairment himself
08:11 chris[…]ruary/016939.html
08:11 |Lupin| ah ok
08:12 |Lupin| chris: does he use something like speech synthesis or braille to read the scree, or perhaps magnification ?
08:13 chris ah nope his is only slight
08:13 chris he uses his own stylesheet, iirc
08:13 chris to make things easier to read
08:14 chris im hoping he is reading this, and will contradict me if i am wrong
08:14 Elwell |Lupin|: [offtopic] what software do you use as a web browser  /reader?
08:24 |Lupin| Elwell: lynx as a web browser
08:24 |Lupin| Elwell: and brltty to see what is displayed on screen
08:25 hdl_laptop chris: maybe Template::ToolKit and Jemplate could help
08:26 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: these are Koha modules, or external modules ?
08:26 chris hmm it probably code, good idea
08:26 chris could even
08:26 hdl_laptop those are not Koha modules at the moment.
08:27 hdl_laptop And would require a rewrite of all templates.
08:27 |Lupin| ow
08:27 hdl_laptop pb with jemplate imho is that it would put us away from js frameworkds
08:28 |Lupin| so not for tomorrow morning :)
08:28 hdl_laptop no
08:28 chris nope
08:28 hdl_laptop defintely
08:28 chris but we are probably moving to Template::Toolkit long term
08:28 |Lupin| k
08:42 slef hdl_laptop: is nicomo about or has he left?
08:43 hdl_laptop he is coming to UK as far as i know
08:43 slef hdl_laptop: if I email him, will he see it?
08:43 hdl_laptop yes
08:43 slef hdl_laptop: and do either you or paul want a cc?
08:43 hdl_laptop he has 3G access
08:43 slef cool
08:44 hdl_laptop why not.
08:44 slef 3G access in Spain was fun :)
08:44 slef do I cc your personal addresses or is there a shared mailbox?
08:44 Elwell that reminds me - must go do battle with and try and get a sim...
08:45 chris slef: you might want to read back and see if i misrepresented you
08:45 slef chris: ok, will do once co-op meeting finishes
08:46 chris :)
08:52 slef chris: promise not to tell, but I snuck a look and it's basically accurate. Thanks.  Finding funding is the hard part.
08:53 chris :)
09:09 |Lupin| hi slef
09:10 |Lupin| nice to meet you
09:10 |Lupin| always pleasant to know accessibility-enthusiasts
09:18 |Lupin| have to reboot, till soon
09:23 Amit_ hi slef
09:23 slef hi Amit_ |Lupin|
09:23 |Lupin| back !
09:24 Amit_ hi Lupin
09:24 |Lupin| hi Amit_
10:10 |Lupin| hmm!
10:11 |Lupin| oops, was about to say something wrong. Just forget about it, pls
10:59 nahuel hi gmcharlt
11:44 Elwell @Lart
11:44 munin Elwell: I suck
11:45 gmcharlt @lart
11:45 munin gmcharlt: (lart [<channel>] [<id>] <who|what> [for <reason>]) -- Uses the Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool on <who|what> (for <reason>, if given). If <id> is given, uses that specific lart. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent in the channel itself.
11:45 gmcharlt hi nahuel
11:46 |Lupin| KOha error
11:46 |Lupin| The following fatal error has occurred:
11:46 Amit_ hi galen
11:46 gmcharlt hi Amit_
11:48 |Lupin| Modificaiton of non-creatable array value attempted, subscript -$ at .../cataloguing/ line 196.
11:48 nahuel gmcharlt, what's up ?
11:48 gmcharlt not much - did you ping me an hour ago?
11:51 nahuel yep :)
11:51 nahuel gmcharlt, did you push my patch for the #3267 ticket ?
11:51 nahuel or not ?
11:55 gmcharlt nahuel: check back, I don't think I ever got the resubmssion
11:55 nahuel the rsubmission ?
11:55 nahuel you asked me it ?
11:55 gmcharlt nahuel: first patch for 3267 didn't apply against head, and I asked you to resubmit
11:57 nahuel I sent it
11:57 nahuel Subject: [PATCH][HEAD] (bug #3267) show items.uri in opac and intranet
11:57 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3267 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---,, ASSIGNED, Show items.uri in opac and intranet
11:58 gmcharlt that one doesn't apply in HEAD either
11:58 nahuel ah
11:58 nahuel ok

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