Time Nick Message 12:02 jwagner Sorry, been off on another screen. Good morning. 12:10 hdl_laptop hi jwagner 12:21 |Lupin| how can one print debigging information in a koha script, please ? 12:21 |Lupin| so that the info is displayed in the webpage, for instance... 13:38 ebegin good morning #koha 13:38 |Lupin| hi ebegin 13:38 ebegin salut Lupin 13:40 ebegin Anybody here is (or has clients) using kits. I mean multiple biblio that are regroup in a kit that can be borrow? 13:48 |Lupin| <div id="breadcrumbs"><a href="/cgi-bin/koha/mainpage.pl">... 13:48 |Lupin| I am wondering what breadcrumbs means... 13:48 |Lupin| does somebody know the meaning, please ? 13:54 owen Hi |Lupin| 13:54 owen breadcrumbs refers to a type of navigation system 13:55 owen The reference is to the fairy tale about Hansel and Gretel, where the children leave breadcrumbs along the path to find their way back 13:55 owen Breadcrumb navigation shows you the links to navigate back up the hierarchy from where you are 13:56 |Lupin| owen: okay, understood, at least for the fairy tale part. What's the connection with the navigation system, though ? 13:56 |Lupin| owen: ah okay, I see 13:56 |Lupin| actually 13:56 |Lupin| I was trying to figure out how to implement a "Skip to content" link on top of each page 13:57 |Lupin| to make navigation a bit easier for visually impaired persons 13:57 |Lupin| I think bascaly the only thing that needs to be done is to add a link to headerinc 13:58 |Lupin| the only problem is to find out an appropriate target. Perhaps a div should be added on purpose to each page 14:00 owen Sounds like a daunting task, but doing a quick inspection of staff client pages doesn't show me any good consistent ID one could use 14:02 |Lupin| owen: I came to a similar conclusion 14:03 |Lupin| owen: firs I thought the div could be added at the end of header.inc, and closed at the begin of bottom.inc 14:03 |Lupin| owen: but there is content one may want to skip in the pages, after the header. Too bad. 14:03 owen Yes, it depends very much on the function of each page 14:05 |Lupin| yep 14:06 |Lupin| koha/koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules$ find . -name '*.tmpl' | wc -l 14:06 |Lupin| 361 14:06 |Lupin| so that's a lot of work... 14:13 ebegin Lupin, in french, a breadcrumbs would be a "fil d'arianne 14:14 |Lupin| ebegin: oh really ? I would have translated it by miettes de pain, which, given the context, makes as much sense to me as "fil d'ariane" 14:14 gmcharlt Ariadne's thread? 14:16 ebegin It basically the same idea than Hansem & Gretel & Pretzel :) 14:18 ebegin Arianne was the daughter of King Minos, in greek mythology. She was living a string in a labyrinth to prevent Thesee from being lost. 14:19 ebegin gmcharlt, Arianne is also Ariadne in english 14:20 gmcharlt that's what I thought (I knew the myth; French, not so much) 14:20 ebegin :) 14:21 |Lupin| gmcharlt: did you see the conversation about the "skip to content" feature ? 14:23 gmcharlt |Lupin|: yes 14:24 SirStan Is a "skip to content" a usability best practice? 14:24 SirStan I can't say I have seen it used uniformly. 14:24 gmcharlt may be an opportunity to apply even more structure to the template include files 14:24 gmcharlt but could be rather a lot of templates to touch, as owen says 14:26 soul9 hey everyone ☺ 14:26 ebegin |Lupin|, what about setting a variable giving the target div? 14:27 ebegin hi soul9 14:27 SirStan ebegin: hackery. 14:27 owen ...and just as much effort, no? 14:27 SirStan and would concievably require the same amount of work ... you still need to figureo ut what templates aer used where, and what id's are the "content". 14:27 SirStan and be impossible to maintain 14:27 ebegin @roulette 14:27 munin ebegin: *click* 14:27 ebegin ouf. :) 14:30 |Lupin| gmcharlt: yes, 361 templates for the staff client, if my count is correct 14:30 |Lupin| actually the bigest directory is the help 14:30 |Lupin| perhaps there is some structure there, I didn't check 14:30 |Lupin| obviously for one person it would be a lot of work 14:31 |Lupin| but perhaps the work could be shared among several volounteers 14:31 gmcharlt |Lupin|: doing that for help would be pretty, actually - not much of a header in the help popus 14:31 |Lupin| perhaps this could be discussed during the next Koha meeting... 14:31 gmcharlt *pretty easy 14:31 gmcharlt |Lupin|: yep, can be, although i suggest also starting a thread on koha-devel before the meeting 14:31 |Lupin| gmcharlt: ok! help represents half of the templates... 14:32 |Lupin| okay 14:32 |Lupin| I'll subscribe and start it... 15:24 Snow_Fox hey quick question, from my understanding koha sends out a email for over due notices and someone else is working on a html dump, where is the setting to give koha the email it needs to send those and where can i find the setting for the admin email dump when the patron doesnt have a email 15:26 owen Those notices are either sent to the KohaAdminEmailAddress or to the email address configured for the individual branches (if present) 16:16 |Lupin| hi again 16:16 |Lupin| our network was down for a while 16:22 gmcharlt hi |Lupin|, thanks for sending the email 16:24 |Lupin| gmcharlt: no problem ! It's normal if I want things to go in a positive direction :-) 16:36 |Lupin| atz: here ? 16:36 atz ? 16:36 |Lupin| atz: I'm the one who posted the mail you replied to 16:37 |Lupin| (on the koha list) 16:37 atz ah, ok 16:37 atz did it make sense? 16:37 |Lupin| I do not expect koha to know where the files will be stored 16:37 |Lupin| the URL is indeed derived from the book biblionumber, asyou say, 16:37 |Lupin| so the plugin thing may be wht I'm looking for 16:38 |Lupin| atz: yes, the end of your mail made sense to me. Regarding he beginning, I think it was a bit misunderstandign the question 16:39 |Lupin| atz: not throwing the fault on you by saying that, I realize my mail may have been rather obscure 16:39 atz no problem 16:40 atz i think your use case is a bit unusual 16:40 |Lupin| atz: do you think you know understand my question ? 16:41 atz at least partially.... you still haven't decided what system will store the actual content/files, right? 16:41 |Lupin| atz: yes it is, and that's why we are pretty sure we _will_ have to modify KOha to achieve our goals. We don't expect the mainstream koha to fullfill ll our requirements. We just think it's the closest thing we can find 16:41 atz there has been some documented work with using Kete and Koha together 16:41 |Lupin| atz: we have. 16:41 atz Kete allows robust document metadata 16:41 |Lupin| atz: we already have a home-made file server 16:41 |Lupin| and 16:42 |Lupin| at least as a first step 16:42 |Lupin| we'd like to keep it 16:42 atz ok, so the question is whether the file location on your server is deterministic or not 16:42 atz what rules govern the location? 16:42 |Lupin| then, once the web part has been re-donce with Koha, we will study the file server issue and decide whether we should keep our own or find one we could use 16:43 atz that seems fine, though you may have to rebuild the integration 16:43 |Lupin| atz: it is deterministic 16:43 |Lupin| and we have a script that is in charge of talking to our file server 16:43 |Lupin| by script I mean a CGI perl script 16:43 |Lupin| atz: ye, we realize that. 16:44 atz so if you can write script (javascript) to produce the same deterministic location, then you can put that in a 856 plugin 16:44 |Lupin| so the URLs we want to have in the bib records are just to call this script with the right parameters 16:44 |Lupin| and it will then talk to the file server 16:44 |Lupin| atz: okay. 16:45 |Lupin| atz: Actually I'd prefer an solution that is not javascript base, because I'm a lynx user and Javascript won't be very easy for me to test 16:45 |Lupin| atz: I'd prefer a solution in the Perl scripts.. 16:45 |Lupin| would that be completely non-sense ? 16:46 atz the plugin is generated by perl, but outputs javascript that is included in the cataloging page 16:46 |Lupin| If you think it would, well, I'll probably have to dig into the javascript thing... 16:46 |Lupin| atz: ok 16:46 |Lupin| atz: still I would not be able to test it by myself... 16:47 atz true, you will need a modern browser to test 16:47 |Lupin| atz: on another side I perfectly understand why doing it in Javascript would make sense 16:47 atz there may be other means, but I would avoid trying to hack "inside" the cataloging code 16:47 atz the plugin structure is the cleaner way to go 16:48 atz and then you don't have to worry about future updates merging badly 16:48 |Lupin| atz: there is no structured and trust-worthy perl API ? 16:48 atz in what regard? there is an API, but the MARC editor is *very* tricky 16:48 |Lupin| atz: yes, I understand your point very well 16:49 atz it has to do a lot, and everybody wants 100 different configurations, so it is very depended on Frameworks 16:49 atz *dependent 16:49 |Lupin| what are frameworks ? 16:49 atz frameworks define the relationship between Koha DB structure and MARC records 16:50 |Lupin| ah 16:50 atz among other things, they control what fields show up or are required in the MARC editor 16:50 |Lupin| it's koha => MARC mappings you are talking about ? 16:51 atz yes, but the arrow goes both ways :) 16:51 |Lupin| right 16:52 |Lupin| atz: care there documentations about the plugin system, please ? 16:54 atz not enough docs, unfortunately 16:55 |Lupin| okay, too bad 16:55 |Lupin| perhaps a starting point in the git tree ? 16:55 atz cataloguing/value_builder/dateaccessioned.pl 16:55 atz is an example of one 16:57 |Lupin| atz: okay, thanks 16:57 |Lupin| atz: and form within the plugin, you have access to, e.g., the biblionumber that has been associated to the record by koha ? 17:03 atz yes 17:06 |Lupin| atz: okay. 17:06 |Lupin| thanks a lot for your help joe 17:06 |Lupin| awesome conversation 17:06 |Lupin| c u later all, bye ! 17:31 vedran is it possible to install KOHA on Linux machines with powerpc processor. I have opensuse ppc anwith php, perl, apache, mysql etc. 17:56 gmcharlt vedran: should be possible 17:57 gmcharlt vedran: only likely difference is that certain packages such Yaz and Zebra may need to be compiled from source 18:58 owen Hi schuster 18:59 schuster Howdy! 19:00 schuster So I have a question about the student XSLT... If we needed to have the place of publication to show on the display from the 260 along with the publisher would that be hard? 19:00 schuster Student being public OPAC view 19:01 schuster For a bibliography that is all that is currently missing from that screen for citing a source. 19:01 owen You talking about the detail page? 19:01 schuster Currently in the summary or Detail it does not show. 19:03 owen Looks like it's a one-character change in the XSL file 19:04 owen Line 178 of MARC21slim2OPACDetail.xsl: 19:04 owen <xsl:with-param name="codes">bcg</xsl:with-param> 19:04 owen That's telling it to display subfields b, c, and/or g 19:04 owen If you change it to "abcg" it shows the location 19:05 owen Same for the search results, MARC21slim2OPACResults.xsl, on line 805 19:21 schuster hmmm interesting - when I changed that nothing happened - do you know how they are tracking at LibLime local customizations ? I am looking at that file in the 19:23 schuster tmpl-custom/pisd-opac/en/xslt 19:23 schuster Is it located someplace else? 19:23 owen Sorry, I don't have any idea :( 19:23 schuster hmm will look further thanks for the suggestion! 19:35 schuster OK found it... thanks for the help... Where's the "That was EASY" button! WHOO WHO! 19:42 wizzyrea_away schuster: someone told me way back that the xslt templates were hard coded and they'd always use prog, but if you solved it then that's probably no longer the case 19:42 wizzyrea_away so YAY 19:42 wizzyrea_away :) 19:48 joetho thanks liz- got it 19:48 wizzyrea_away yepper 20:10 schuster The staff templates are hard coded and are NOT editable, but the OPAC XSLT's are... 20:19 chris morning 20:31 chris @wunder wellington, new zealand 20:31 munin chris: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 8.0°C (8:00 AM NZST on June 25, 2009). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Windchill: 5.0°C. Pressure: 30.21 in 1023 hPa (Falling). 20:31 chris blue skies out there, gonna be an alright winter day i think 20:34 richard hi 20:41 chris morning richard 21:02 joetho good morning southerners. 21:08 chris hi joetho 21:42 wizzyrea it was 40ºC here earlier... too hot 21:42 wizzyrea AGAIN. 21:44 chris stink 22:05 schuster Question about Marc Export and Authorities. When I export my database the $9892343 numbers are exporting on the bib as well. Is there a way to not export that info? 22:05 schuster Sorry as part of the 650 subjects 22:11 pianohacker good afternoon, #koha 22:12 chris hiya pianohacker 22:12 pianohacker hey 22:12 pianohacker How are things in your part of the world? 22:13 chris not bad, crisp winter day 22:13 chris 2nd to last day of my paternity leave 22:14 pianohacker Hah, crisp winter day. On vacation in Carlsbad, NM, where you have to run the A/C 24/7 22:15 pianohacker Pile of work waiting for you? I always am just a bit afraid to go on vacation 22:16 chris undoubtedly a big pile 22:16 chris not gonna look :) 22:16 pianohacker Hehe 22:16 pianohacker Had any chance to play with Template::Toolkit? 22:22 chris havent got much further 22:23 chris http://git.workbuffer.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=lib/Koha/Templates.pm; 22:29 gmcharlt code, no templates 22:29 pianohacker Hmm 22:35 chris hehe yeah 22:35 chris i was waiting for pianohacker to magically make me a template 22:35 chris hehe 22:35 pianohacker I am working on a sed script as we speak 22:36 chris sweet :) 22:36 pianohacker Learning the quirks of yet another regex engine 22:36 chris i often give up and end up doing something with bash and perl 22:36 pianohacker Heh. Yeah 22:41 chris http://www.pie.geek.nz/qotd/working-in-a-team.html 22:42 chris you still sick jo? 22:44 Jo nope 22:44 Jo well not really 22:44 Jo at work today 22:44 Jo all that horrible printer mess still has to be sorted out .. 22:44 Jo it didn't fix itself wehile I was sick ! 22:44 pianohacker Hmm, barrier. Template::Toolkit requires [% FOREACH item IN loop %][% item.var %] rather than just plain [% var %] 22:45 pianohacker Near as I can tell 22:45 chris yep 22:46 chris it's all objecty 22:46 chris :) 22:46 chris maybe we should just take a crack with opac-main to start 22:47 chris i might try to do that today 22:47 hdl_laptop pianohacker: it seems though that you can define a view for an object. 22:47 hdl_laptop and use that. 22:48 pianohacker hdl_laptop: Hmm, I see the section on VIEWs, but am not sure how it applies 22:49 hdl_laptop mc khatar could tell you more about that. 22:49 hdl_laptop But he is asleep at the moment 22:50 pianohacker k 22:55 pianohacker Only 328 unique names for TMPL_LOOPS; I could make a dictionary mapping loop names to loop item names= 22:55 pianohacker Based on my work with the sysprefs editor, I have an odd love for tedious rewriting work 23:18 chris sorry was attacked by midwives 23:18 chris back now 23:53 pianohacker1 Bye, #koha 23:54 chris that dude rules 00:27 brendan @wunder 93117 00:27 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 19.9°C (5:22 PM PDT on June 24, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 29.90 in 1012.4 hPa (Falling). 00:28 Jo Chris: code4lib paper delayed -maybe tomorrow maybe monday 00:31 chris cripes 00:33 chris i guess thats the bonus with online journal 00:34 chris deadlines can be pushed out 00:39 brendan hey Jo chris -- how goes the winter? 00:40 brendan I've got nice sunshine shine here ;) 00:40 brendan had to say shine twice it's so nice 00:51 chris heh 02:47 brendan @later tell amit hi 02:47 munin brendan: The operation succeeded. 03:26 Amit hi chris, brendan 03:26 Amit good morning #koha 03:27 Amit munin: what command r u typing 03:27 munin Amit: downloading the Perl source 03:27 Amit hi munin 03:29 Amit hi Jo 03:34 Amit_ Amit_ is known as Amit 03:40 Jo Hi Amit, Brendan, et al 06:18 chris evening 06:32 eiro hello 07:00 chris hi nicomo 07:00 nicomo hi chris 07:00 nicomo hello everyone 07:03 chris hmm dinner time, bbiab 07:06 hdl_laptop hi 07:18 chris back 07:26 Amit_ hi nicomo 07:26 nicomo hi Amit_ 07:29 chris cya mason 07:32 Amit_ cya mason 07:33 Amit_ hi nahuel 07:33 nahuel hi all :) 07:33 chris hi nahuel 07:43 |Lupin| hello, everybody 07:44 hdl_laptop hi |Lupin| 07:45 chris hi |Lupin| 07:45 chris i like your accessibility idea 07:47 |Lupin| chris: thanks ! 07:48 |Lupin| it'd be very nice to have this link actually. I'm loosing a certain amount of time when I'm in the staff client to find the real beginning of the page (using lynx to connect to it) 07:49 chris *nod* 07:54 |Lupin| chris: yesterday Joe suggested to use the plugins mechanism to fill some mMARC fields automatically. I realize that given Koha's architecture it may be the right place, but that'd mean the mechanism wouldn't work with browsers without Javascript. What do you think ? Can you think about another way to automatically fill some fields ? 07:56 chris the plugins only work with javascript? 07:59 hdl_laptop plugins are called via js. 07:59 hdl_laptop on events 07:59 chris dang 08:00 chris i bet we could have a no js syspref 08:01 chris and make it check that, if its set no js, make the plugin run automagically 08:01 chris 98.74645% of ppl would leave it set on 08:01 chris but itd be nice to be able to make critical parts be able to work without js 08:03 chris the problem is, it would be hard to find a sponsor to pay someone to do that 08:04 chris so it would have to be mostly voluntary 08:04 |Lupin| chris: that'd be really cool indeed... just wondering whether the developers will really find the time and ressources to implement such a feature for less than 2% of the users. Also, it looks as a solution which will work at some point in the future. I will have to find one which works now. I guess I'll have to install gnome, firefox and try to live with it. 08:05 chris yep, things like that unfortunately have to annoy someone enough for them to want to fix it 08:05 chris because its unlikely a library will ask them to do it 08:05 |Lupin| chris: agreed 08:06 chris |Lupin|: slef may be your ally in this 08:07 chris he has a big interest in accessibility 08:10 |Lupin| chris: oh yes ? many thanks for the information ! 08:10 |Lupin| chris: do you know what makes he being interested in the topic ? 08:11 chris i know that he hates captchas with a passion :) he has a visual impairment himself 08:11 chris http://lists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2009-February/016939.html 08:11 |Lupin| ah ok 08:12 |Lupin| chris: does he use something like speech synthesis or braille to read the scree, or perhaps magnification ? 08:13 chris ah nope his is only slight 08:13 chris he uses his own stylesheet, iirc 08:13 chris to make things easier to read 08:14 chris im hoping he is reading this, and will contradict me if i am wrong 08:14 Elwell |Lupin|: [offtopic] what software do you use as a web browser /reader? 08:24 |Lupin| Elwell: lynx as a web browser 08:24 |Lupin| Elwell: and brltty to see what is displayed on screen 08:25 hdl_laptop chris: maybe Template::ToolKit and Jemplate could help 08:26 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: these are Koha modules, or external modules ? 08:26 chris hmm it probably code, good idea 08:26 chris could even 08:26 hdl_laptop those are not Koha modules at the moment. 08:27 hdl_laptop And would require a rewrite of all templates. 08:27 |Lupin| ow 08:27 hdl_laptop pb with jemplate imho is that it would put us away from js frameworkds 08:28 |Lupin| so not for tomorrow morning :) 08:28 hdl_laptop no 08:28 chris nope 08:28 hdl_laptop defintely 08:28 chris but we are probably moving to Template::Toolkit long term 08:28 |Lupin| k 08:42 slef hdl_laptop: is nicomo about or has he left? 08:43 hdl_laptop he is coming to UK as far as i know 08:43 slef hdl_laptop: if I email him, will he see it? 08:43 hdl_laptop yes 08:43 slef hdl_laptop: and do either you or paul want a cc? 08:43 hdl_laptop he has 3G access 08:43 slef cool 08:44 hdl_laptop why not. 08:44 slef 3G access in Spain was fun :) 08:44 slef do I cc your personal addresses or is there a shared mailbox? 08:44 Elwell that reminds me - must go do battle with orange.fr and try and get a sim... 08:45 chris slef: you might want to read back and see if i misrepresented you 08:45 slef chris: ok, will do once co-op meeting finishes 08:46 chris :) 08:52 slef chris: promise not to tell, but I snuck a look and it's basically accurate. Thanks. Finding funding is the hard part. 08:53 chris :) 09:09 |Lupin| hi slef 09:10 |Lupin| nice to meet you 09:10 |Lupin| always pleasant to know accessibility-enthusiasts 09:18 |Lupin| have to reboot, till soon 09:23 Amit_ hi slef 09:23 slef hi Amit_ |Lupin| 09:23 |Lupin| back ! 09:24 Amit_ hi Lupin 09:24 |Lupin| hi Amit_ 10:10 |Lupin| hmm! 10:11 |Lupin| oops, was about to say something wrong. Just forget about it, pls 10:59 nahuel hi gmcharlt 11:44 Elwell @Lart 11:44 munin Elwell: I suck 11:45 gmcharlt @lart 11:45 munin gmcharlt: (lart [<channel>] [<id>] <who|what> [for <reason>]) -- Uses the Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool on <who|what> (for <reason>, if given). If <id> is given, uses that specific lart. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent in the channel itself. 11:45 gmcharlt hi nahuel 11:46 |Lupin| KOha error 11:46 |Lupin| The following fatal error has occurred: 11:46 Amit_ hi galen 11:46 gmcharlt hi Amit_ 11:48 |Lupin| Modificaiton of non-creatable array value attempted, subscript -$ at .../cataloguing/z3950_search.pl line 196. 11:48 nahuel gmcharlt, what's up ? 11:48 gmcharlt not much - did you ping me an hour ago? 11:51 nahuel yep :) 11:51 nahuel gmcharlt, did you push my patch for the #3267 ticket ? 11:51 nahuel or not ? 11:55 gmcharlt nahuel: check back, I don't think I ever got the resubmssion 11:55 nahuel the rsubmission ? 11:55 nahuel you asked me it ? 11:55 gmcharlt nahuel: first patch for 3267 didn't apply against head, and I asked you to resubmit 11:57 nahuel I sent it 11:57 nahuel Subject: [PATCH][HEAD] (bug #3267) show items.uri in opac and intranet 11:57 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3267 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, nahuel.angelinetti@biblibre.com, ASSIGNED, Show items.uri in opac and intranet 11:58 gmcharlt that one doesn't apply in HEAD either 11:58 nahuel ah 11:58 nahuel ok