IRC log for #koha, 2009-06-17

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:00 No_Reply i'm moving my 942k records from last night to 952o
12:01 Amit k
12:01 No_Reply errr...thought you were someone else, actually
13:25 Hery_R Hi folks
13:25 gmcharlt hi
13:28 Hery_R I'm finalizing an evaluation of Koha as a part of Opensource ILS, and there's some point I can't evaluate by myself, perhaps somebody here could help me
13:28 gmcharlt ask away
13:29 Hery_R How far stemming and lemmatisation are implemented in koha?
13:29 gmcharlt stemming is supportred, and will soon be improved
13:30 gmcharlt stemming support is for most major European languages
13:32 gmcharlt lemmatization is not currently supported
13:34 Hery_R ok, thanks :)
14:21 slef Does Jean-André Santoni come on here at all?
14:21 slef hi all by the way
14:24 slef I was hoping to discuss bug 3144 because I really don't want to have Koha discriminate against people like me.
14:24 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3144 normal, P5, ---,, NEW, anti-spam for opac-suggestions
14:26 wizzyrea slef: pleading ignorance, what would you be discriminated against for?
14:27 No_Reply looks like some have pointed out that reCAPTCHA isn't accessible to people with visual and hearing impairments
14:27 wizzyrea slef: never mind, rtfb
14:28 wizzyrea so I see
14:28 wizzyrea I can see this
14:28 No_Reply count yourself one of the lucky ones  :P
14:29 slef wizzyrea: I have poor eyesight and damaged hearing
14:30 No_Reply slef: do you have an alternate solution
14:31 slef yes. Install anti-spam methods, such as
14:31 No_Reply it looks like the current problem is that the entire feature must be disabled
14:38 hdl_laptop slef: Jean André is Kivutar
14:38 hdl_laptop and he is there
14:38 Kivutar here I am :)
14:39 Kivutar slef: I sent a mail to Nicolas Morin this morning, about this bug
14:44 No_Reply Kivutar: so what's the current status? are we looking into more accessible alternatives to reCAPTCHA?
14:48 Kivutar No_Reply: yes, I would prefer to use a non discriminative way to solve this problem
14:50 Kivutar but I am waiting for Nicolas Morin to reply to my mail first, he's my employer and I cannot do without his advice
15:00 |Lupin| Kivutar: +1
15:01 slef bah, employment ;-)
15:01 Kivutar :)
15:26 slef anyone got comments on bug 3332 I should take into consideration?
15:26 |Lupin| till soon
15:26 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3332 enhancement, P5, ---,, ASSIGNED, Edit whole category of patrons
15:26 |Lupin| bye
15:27 slef that's odd.  I thought the thing after P5 was the sponsorship status
15:33 gmcharlt slef: it is, but for some reason is not consistently pulled up by munin
15:33 gmcharlt @bug 3332
15:34 munin gmcharlt: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3332 enhancement, P5, ---,, ASSIGNED, Edit whole category of patrons
15:50 kf is it possible to prevent holds, when one item in patron library is still on shelf and available?
15:52 pianohacker kf: Not sure what you're asking. Are you wondering if you can prevent holds on checked in items?
15:52 kf I found out, that I can forbit holds on available items with AllowOnShelfHolds OFF, but then i cant reserve the item from another branch
15:52 kf yes
15:52 pianohacker So you want to be able to reserve checked-in items from other branches, but not this branch? I don't think that's currently possible
15:53 kf holdability depending on item status or something like that
15:53 kf yes, thats what I wanted
15:53 kf its about closed stack access
15:53 kf I try to find out, how to manage this with Koha
15:53 gmcharlt kf: it's there in part (see the bottom of the circ rules page in 3.2), but doesn't handle differntiating local on-shelf holds vs. remote ones
15:54 kf but its holdabilty per item type
15:54 kf so its gerneally not holdable, as far as I undertand it
15:54 kf what I m looking for is somethong with holdability and item status (on loan, not for loan, available)
15:54 gmcharlt kf: well, it's holdabilty divided into three options per branch/itemtype
15:54 gmcharlt * allow from any librayr
15:55 gmcharlt * only from home library
15:55 gmcharlt * not allowed at all
15:55 kf but it seems, that as long as AllowOnShelfHolds is OFF you cant reserve, even iif its allow from any library
15:56 kf because its on shelf in the other library
15:56 gmcharlt right, the on-shelf setting is currently global
15:57 kf our libraries normally expect holds to work: if there is an item in currend library available for checkout - tell patron to go to shelf
15:58 kf it there is no item available in current library - tell user he can reserve
15:58 kf I think this cant be done with Koha - but I was not sure, if I missed something
15:59 gmcharlt kf: no, I think some coding would be needed
15:59 gmcharlt kf: I suggest adding that to
16:00 kf I think something like AllowOnShelfHolds by library would be a good start
16:01 gmcharlt kf: that would be useful, yes, but not sufficient to meet your workflow
16:02 kf no, still thinking about it
16:02 kf holds are giving me headaches
16:04 gmcharlt kf: hold requests are a plot to sell more aspirin ;)
16:04 kf yes
16:04 kf and our project library is not a simple one
16:05 atz yeah, it would be nice if we could arbitrarily cap the complexity of holds logic...
16:06 kf how do your libraries work?
16:06 kf can users just reserve everything, even if its on shelf and librarians are supposed to get it for them?
16:07 atz kf: mostly, yes.
16:07 kf very conient
16:07 kf convenient
16:08 gmcharlt yeah, under that model the complexity is not with who gets to place requests
16:08 gmcharlt but routing items to fill the requests
16:09 kf I think we expect it to make as little work as possible
16:09 kf by telling the patron: look on shelf, there is still an item you can get
16:13 wizzyrea @quote add gmcharlt: kf: hold requests are a plot to sell more aspirin ;)
16:13 munin wizzyrea: The operation succeeded.  Quote #6 added.
16:13 wizzyrea @quote random
16:13 munin wizzyrea: Quote #4: "< kf> I often get asked: You have to study to be a librarian? perhaps MARC was invented to answer it ;)" (added by chris at 12:50 PM, June 12, 2009)
16:14 kf ok, MARC and holds management are evil g
16:23 No_Reply i have a bit of an odd problem
16:23 kf ok, I will write a summary, about what I think can be done now and discuss with my colleagues, what is missing, thx gmcharlt
16:24 slef No_Reply: you're named after a bad newsletter From line? ;-)
16:25 No_Reply i've just updated all of our records, moving call numbers from 942k to 952o
16:26 No_Reply for koha 3.0.1
16:27 No_Reply but records created under 3.0.1 and a handful of older ones (maybe 50 total, including the 10 or so new records) still have NULL under itemcallnumber
16:28 No_Reply select biblionumber, bibid from marc_biblio where biblionumber = 8905; Empty set (0.00 sec)
16:28 No_Reply this is the case for those 50+ records, but not for the rest
16:28 No_Reply am I missing something?
16:29 gmcharlt No_Reply: marc_biblio is a holdover from your upgrade from 2.2
16:29 No_Reply i see
16:29 gmcharlt so it's possible that those records may not have been quite right to begin with
16:29 No_Reply what replaced it?
16:29 gmcharlt biblio and biblioitems
16:30 gmcharlt basically, the MARC tags from marc_biblio got converted to MARC and MARCXML blobs
16:30 gmcharlt in biblioitems.marc and biblioitems.marcxml
16:31 No_Reply right
16:33 No_Reply so is there a script i can use to find the value in a particular marc field under the new system
16:34 gmcharlt No_Reply: not as such - it takes a bit more doing
16:34 gmcharlt either by doing a search
16:34 gmcharlt or checking for tags that are mapped to specific columns in biblio, bibliotems, or items per the MARC framework
16:34 No_Reply hmmm
16:35 No_Reply well, the problem is that the items I want are mapped incorrectly
16:36 No_Reply the result is, as noted, NULL values in items.itemcallnumber
16:37 No_Reply so i need to grab the data in 942k from the MARC blob, somehow
16:40 gmcharlt No_Reply: do you know any Perl?
16:41 No_Reply yes, i'm using a perl script to do the leg work already
16:42 gmcharlt No_Reply: ok, then you can write a script that uses C4::Biblio::GetMarcBiblio() to get a MARC::Record object for each affected bib
16:42 No_Reply ok, that helps a lot
16:42 gmcharlt then use MARC::Record and MARC::Field routines to grab the 952$o (or 942$k) for each item
16:44 gmcharlt then use C4::Items::ModItem({ itemcallnumber => $foo }, $biblionumber, $itemnumber) to make the change
16:45 No_Reply already doing moditem
16:45 No_Reply was just using the database to grab the 942k data
16:45 gmcharlt ok
16:46 No_Reply if i can use GetMarcBibilio and MARC::Record to do what i was doing with SQL, then it should work
16:46 gmcharlt nahuel: about?
16:51 hdl_laptop nahuel: went
16:51 hdl_laptop hi gmcharlt
16:51 gmcharlt hi hdl_laptop
16:51 gmcharlt question regarding bug 2893
16:51 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2893 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---,, ASSIGNED, Allow the staff to force loaning of not for loan documents
16:52 gmcharlt I'm assuming that the AllowNotForLoanOverride syspref should work
16:52 gmcharlt regardless of whether the item is normally not for loan because of its item type
16:52 gmcharlt or because of the item's individual not-for-loan flag
16:55 hdl_laptop It makes sense.
16:56 No_Reply gmcharlt: that seems to have worked
16:56 No_Reply thanks
16:56 No_Reply dinner time now
17:01 hdl_laptop but gmcharlt I suppose that if nahuel did so it was because it was asked as such.
17:01 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: well, that's the question
17:02 gmcharlt may have been asked that way, or nahuel may have just implemented the one case or not the other
17:04 kf speaking about not for loan: if itemtype is not for loan items get displayed as available in OPAC
17:07 gmcharlt kf: that be a bug - please enter it in if it's not there already
17:07 hdl_laptop I think it was asked for only one case, and tested in that case
17:08 hdl_laptop I will send him an email
17:09 gmcharlt ok
17:09 gmcharlt based on the one customer support issue where that's come up, my current preference is to have the syspref handle both cases
17:09 kf searching in now
17:10 gmcharlt unless it turns out that there's some reason to have separate sysprefs
17:53 slef gmcharlt: about bug 3332 - are there (m)any big changes to borrowers which will hinder forward-porting it to 3.2?
17:53 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3332 enhancement, P5, ---,, ASSIGNED, Edit whole category of patrons
17:59 gmcharlt slef: except for the odd new column or two, none that I can think of
18:08 chris morning
18:08 chris @wunder wellington, new zealand
18:08 munin chris: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 8.0°C (6:00 AM NZST on June 17, 2009). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 57%. Dew Point: 0.0°C. Windchill: 3.0°C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Steady).
18:08 slef gmcharlt: cool. Thanks.
18:08 chris i hate southerlies
18:09 slef @wunder Weston-super-Mare, SOMERSET
18:09 munin slef: The current temperature in Weston-Super-Mare, United Kingdom is 19.3°C (7:08 PM BST on June 16, 2009). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 73%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 30.21 in 1022.9 hPa (Steady).
18:09 slef time for a bike ride :)
18:09 slef bbl
18:15 paul_p @wunder montauban, france
18:15 munin paul_p: The current temperature in Montauban, La Ville Dieu Du Temple, France is 21.7°C (8:14 PM CEST on June 16, 2009). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 30.17 in 1021.6 hPa (Falling).
18:15 eric_b @wunder montreal, quebec
18:15 munin eric_b: The current temperature in Montreal / Dorval International, Que, Quebec is 22.0°C (2:00 PM EDT on June 16, 2009). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 47%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 30.20 in 1022 hPa (Falling).
18:22 chris hehe
19:22 |Lupin| good night, France. Good day, NZ
19:28 chris heh
19:29 chris < rangi> kgs: have they actually said anything about FLOSS yet?
19:29 chris < kgs> @rangi there was a slide that said open source on it.
19:29 ebegin chris, hehe
19:30 rhcl @wunder what's polaris
19:30 munin rhcl: Error: No such location could be found.
19:30 ebegin chris, a plugin for munin telling what time is it where would be nice...
19:30 slef rhcl: I don't know either
19:31 slef rhcl: and I'm being too lazy to look up
19:31 chris proprietary ILS
19:31 rhcl :)
19:31 chris admittedly a fairly no crap one, compared to the others
19:31 slef "the brightest star in the constellation Ursa Minor" thanks wikipedia
19:31 rhcl Ah, I was thinking submarine. An open source nuke sub would be really cool.
19:31 slef @wikipedia polaris
19:31 munin slef: downloading the Perl source
19:32 slef I could probably write a wikipedia plugin using pretty easily
19:32 chris they are picking up a lot of ex horizon customers
19:32 slef but I've also got work to do :)
19:32 slef boo!
19:32 chris but are obviously worried that koha and evergreen are too
19:32 slef from the end-of-life frying pan back into the proprietary fire?
19:33 chris so do some webinar, about 'open source' to try and muddy the waters
19:33 chris yeah
19:33 chris vendor_locking--
19:33 chris lockin too
19:33 ebegin a lot of proprietary ILS are worried by Koha and Evergreen...
19:33 chris good
19:34 chris :)
19:35 ebegin chrisL: You are following the conf on twitter?
19:35 chris kgs (from evergreen) was/is
19:35 chris in the webinar, and i was following her tweets
19:36 chris i would have had to install some proprietary crud to watch the webinar :-)
19:36 ebegin is the webinar can be access by anyone?
19:37 chris i think its finished now, but yes i think that was the idea
19:37 ebegin ok
19:39 chris ebegin: you will appreciate this one
19:39 ebegin Is there a script in Koha comparing the content of a biblio to authorities and link them together?
19:40 gmcharlt ebegin:  
19:40 ebegin gmcharlt, my understanding of this script is that it checks the $9 field and copy the authority info in the biblio.
19:42 ebegin What I'm looking for is a biblio without $9 subfields.  Comparing info (ex: 700) with all authorities and assing the authnumber to the $9 field if there is a match...
19:43 slef ebegin: that would be cool
19:43 slef chris: Debian MiniConf @ LCA2010 in Wellington — help needed
19:43 chris i think ryan had something like that
19:44 chris slef: orly?
19:44 chris we was planning to help with the perl one
19:44 chris ill ping the dd at work
19:44 chris dd's even
19:45 chris we=I :)
19:46 slef tyvm... mail was to debian-project by madduck
19:46 chris ahhh
19:47 chris penny's man :)
19:47 slef yep
19:47 chris angling for a trip back to nz :)
19:48 chris im sure we can sort something out
19:48 chris ill forward the email to some people
19:55 chris done, something to suprise them when they get to work :)
20:00 chris hello kansas
20:02 gmcharlt ebegin: no, the script checks headings in the bib record and creates $9 if the subfield exists
20:02 gmcharlt *authority exists
20:02 wizzyrea1 oh... the responsibility!
20:03 wizzyrea1 <there's no place like home... there's no place like home...>
20:03 gmcharlt are Kansans sick of that joke by now?
20:03 Snow_Fox kinda tune it out actually
20:03 wizzyrea1 oh... yea, exactly
20:03 chris its evolved
20:04 Snow_Fox i mention that a munchkin hung himself in the film and that usually stops that
20:04 chris (thats all nzers know about kansas)
20:04 wizzyrea1 O.o
20:05 slef I just misread nzers... too much BNP news lately :-/
20:05 wizzyrea1 snow_fox: :)
20:05 Snow_Fox its like throwing a pipwrench into a bunch of gears
20:05 wizzyrea1 without all the screeching
20:05 gmcharlt wizzyrea++
20:05 chris slef: ouch please dont confuse us with them :)
20:05 Snow_Fox eh
20:06 gmcharlt Snow_Fox: of course, then there's
20:06 Snow_Fox were all people :-P
20:06 chris you know who the BNP are Snow_Fox ?
20:06 chris i wouldnt call them people
20:06 Snow_Fox nopers
20:06 Snow_Fox but i was refering to the New Zelanders
20:06 chris think world war 2, a word that has n and z in it
20:07 Snow_Fox pardon the spelling :-P
20:07 Snow_Fox gotcha
20:07 slef Snow_Fox: BNP are the British Nazi Party
20:07 slef of course, officially it's N for National
20:07 wizzyrea1 national, according to wikipedia
20:07 wizzyrea1 but they sound vile
20:07 Snow_Fox you would think that would be rather defeatist
20:07 Snow_Fox and on that note
20:07 Snow_Fox lunch time
20:07 slef who was the KohaCon 2009 committee?  Only the three on ?
20:08 chris speaking of which, so far its Jo from hlt and I
20:09 chris for the wellington bid, we would love anyone else who wants to help organise
20:10 chris those 3 plus tina and nicole
20:10 chris afaik
20:11 chris oh, i lie nicole has volunteered to help organising too, so yay for that
20:11 chris nengard++
20:12 chris im hoping we can get the use of one of the universities facilities for 2010
20:14 wizzyrea1 ooh that would be good
20:14 chris victoria university has a good library science program
20:15 chris and brenda chawner there, is a big FLOSS fan
20:15 chris so ill try to co-opt her :)
20:20 gmcharlt chris: do you know Adrienne Ridley-Houlker there?
20:30 brendan Would love plan this on-site -- but I can only contribute virtually
20:32 wizzyrea yea, I'd help too except not for sure for sure I will be able to come (but will try to move heaven and earth to make sure when the time is nearer)
20:39 richard hi
20:42 hdl_laptop ebegin : what you are looking for was done for 2.2
20:43 hdl_laptop I have adapted for 3.0, but there are two chunks of code :
20:44 hdl_laptop One pm and one script which uses that.
20:45 hdl_laptop I have not committed it because it is not stable enough in my opinion and lacks documentation.
20:45 hdl_laptop + it is adapted to UNIMARC and would require some work to adapt to MARC21.
20:46 pianohacker Has anyone else seen a problem where, say, C4::Stats exports DoBlah, and C4::Circulation use's C4::Stats, but using DoBlah in C4::Circulation results in an error? I've seen it and worked around it, but cannot figure out what triggers it
20:50 hdl_laptop I would have suspected that either.
20:50 hdl_laptop But no evidence for it
20:50 hdl_laptop good nite
20:50 pianohacker good night
21:28 pianohacker graphviz input file of Koha's dependencies (have chewed through my swap and crashed circo trying to display this):
21:45 chris back
21:48 wizzyrea quickie: correct that staff results have no xslt display?
21:48 wizzyrea (yet)
21:50 chris gmcharlt: name doesnt ring a bell
21:50 chris wizzyrea: i think that is correct
21:58 chris pianohacker: C4::Circ certainly has issues
21:59 chris uses C4::Reserves which in turn uses C4::Circulation
21:59 chris theres a potential memory leak there, for running under mod_perl
22:03 chris brendan: thanks for the volunteering :)
22:03 chris right i think ive caught up :)
22:04 brendan :)
22:04 brendan chris -- Assuming your the project manager on that one -- so let me know what I can do!
22:05 chris ill probably defer to Jo mostly :)
22:12 brendan @later Jo - brendan is interested in volunteer to help Bid for Kohacon 10 in NZ -- any help you need
22:12 munin brendan: I'll give you the answer as soon as RDA is ready
22:12 brendan @later Jo - brendan is interested in volunteer to help Bid for Kohacon 10 in NZ -- any help you need
22:12 munin brendan: I suck
22:12 chris you need @later tell
22:12 brendan thanks
22:13 brendan @later tell Jo - brendan is interested in volunteer to help Bid for Kohacon 10 in NZ -- any help you need
22:13 munin brendan: The operation succeeded.
22:13 chris :)
22:13 brendan sweet
22:58 Jo morning
22:58 pianohacker Good morning
22:58 chris hi jo
22:58 Jo how are you
23:06 pianohacker How do you manage multiple Zebra installations (for multiple databases, say) on one server, #koha ? Multiple instances of zebrasrv seems like the most likely option, but also wasteful
23:09 chris you can define as many db's in your config file as you want
23:09 chris and have one zebra that runs them all
23:09 chris *but*
23:09 chris you will get into logjams indexing
23:09 pianohacker I wondered
23:10 chris multiple instances of zebrasrv running is probably the safest
23:10 pianohacker And just configure each one with the corresponding koha-conf.xml
23:11 chris *nod*
23:11 pianohacker k, thanks
23:11 chris so you only need one installed, but you can have multiples running
23:11 chris (not all trying to use the same port/socket of course :))
23:14 pianohacker definitely not; zebra's touchy enough as it is
23:14 chris :)
00:05 chris @later tell paul_p[…]gainst-All-Blacks
00:05 munin chris: The operation succeeded.
01:20 brendan excuse me if I have missed this somewhere - but on my koha-dev install -- all of the files in the clone have the permissions of my user -- but all of the files under my koha-dev have the permissions of root?  -- does this have something to do with the install script?
01:20 chris yeah the sudo make install
01:20 chris does that
01:21 chris i sudo chown -R koha:koha ~/koha-dev
01:21 chris usually
01:24 brendan sorry just clarify what you mean there -- when running the sudo make install -- that will cause the koha-dev portion to have root permissions
01:25 chris yeah cos you are running it as root
01:25 brendan running the install - right gotcha
01:25 brendan ok next thing -- should that info be added to the manual ?
01:26 brendan even though the manual is usually only geared for simple install
01:26 chris well, the idea is the dev install is for dev installers :)
01:26 brendan errr.. standard
01:26 chris yeah
01:26 chris the standard install does the chown step
01:26 brendan correct -- I guess I also just did this in the past
01:26 brendan and I'm only asking now
01:27 chris :)
01:27 brendan well at least until the first time -- it said I didn't have permissions to write into my zebradb..  hehe
01:27 chris but on the wiki wouldnt hurt
01:27 brendan ahah
01:29 brendan thanks chris
01:29 chris np
02:07 brendan @wunder Santa Barbara
02:07 munin brendan: Error: No such location could be found.
02:07 brendan @wunder Santa Barbara, CA
02:08 munin brendan: The current temperature in Near Mission - TC, Santa Barbara, California is 20.4°C (7:07 PM PDT on June 16, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 45%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 29.91 in 1012.8 hPa (Falling).
02:08 brendan that feels cold to me ;)
03:24 Amit hi brendan, richard, Jo, Chris, mason
03:24 Amit good morning #koha
03:26 richard hey amit
03:26 Amit richard: NZ out of T-20 world cup
03:26 brendan hey amit
03:26 Amit India loss another match
03:26 richard yep
03:55 chris
03:55 chris anyone ever heard of these guys?
03:58 richard interesting
03:59 chris yeah, first ive seen of them
04:05 mason hi folks
04:06 richard hey mason
04:06 chris heya mason
04:07 Amit heya mason
04:07 mason me+++
04:16 brendan hey mason
04:16 mason heya brendan, looong time no chat
04:16 brendan ha - can you self karma ?
04:16 mason mason++
04:16 munin mason: Error: You're not allowed to adjust your own karma.
04:16 brendan never even thought to ask that
04:16 mason brendan++
04:16 brendan there you go
04:16 brendan mason ++
04:16 mason aaaw, thanx
04:17 chris no space brendan, or it doesnt count :)
04:17 brendan mason++
04:17 brendan thanks
04:29 chris right time to start figuring out something for dinner
04:54 brendan good night #koha -- early night for me :)
05:03 Amit night brendan
05:12 |Lupin| hi
05:44 Amit hi Lupin
05:45 |Lupin| hey Amit
05:45 |Lupin| Amit: you live in Delhi ?
05:45 Amit no i m in bangalore
05:46 |Lupin| Amit: ah okay. This is in India, right ?
05:48 Amit yes
05:50 |Lupin| hi laurence
05:50 laurence hello |Lupin|
05:52 Amit hi laurence
05:52 Jo woo hoo! Presenting Koha 3.0 at the LIANZA conf in NZ in Nov
05:52 Amit hi jo
05:52 Jo Hi AMit
05:52 Jo How are things with you
05:52 Amit every thing is fine here
05:52 Amit u tell Jo
05:54 Amit hi greenmang0
05:56 Jo might have to talk to Zeno about the very cute web 2.0 stuff he knows about
06:09 Amit hi hdl
06:20 chris heh
06:20 chris i called it
06:21 Amit hi nicomo
06:22 nicomo hi all
06:22 nicomo hi Amit
06:23 chris
06:23 greenmang0 Amit:
06:23 chris and now
06:23 Amit hi greenman0
06:24 chris Health officials say it may not be long before they give up trying to contain the virus and move instead into managing it.
06:25 chris i should by a lotto ticket
06:27 Amit chris: 31 swine flu cases in india
06:28 chris we are up to 100+ here
06:28 chris so far it seems like a mild form of the flu
06:28 chris that spreads fast
06:28 chris (altho since its the first flu they have ever really tracked from the start there is nothing to compare it with)
07:03 hdl_laptop chris: is nicolas registered user for french on Pootle ?
07:03 chris hi kf and paul_p
07:03 hdl_laptop hi kf
07:04 chris lemme check
07:04 chris nope just you
07:05 chris he has now
07:05 hdl_laptop could you add him ?
07:05 hdl_laptop thanks.
07:05 hdl_laptop Is there no way for a registered user to add another one ?
07:06 chris yep you had the rights to do that
07:06 chris
07:06 chris can you see that page (need to be logged in)
07:24 kf good morning :)
07:30 hdl_laptop chris: I can. Is there anything to do for Pascale ebegin and another Southern person ?
07:30 chris if you want to add them you can on that page
07:30 chris you choose them from the drop down, then select their permissions on the right
07:33 chris (those are the users who have chosen french as their language)
07:33 chris once a user does that, we can then assign them some permissions
07:40 atz how awesome is this...[…]sb&u=8D9L8&ref=nf
07:41 atz sorry....
07:41 atz[…]be-televised.html
07:41 atz ohio state guy in the middle of the democratic protests in tehran
07:42 chris that is awesome, on so many levels :)
07:43 chris late night atz ?
07:43 chris or super early morning
07:43 atz yeah, heading to bed now
07:43 atz fell asleep on the couch
07:43 chris ahh :)
08:58 chris hi |Lupin|
09:06 |Lupin| hi chris
09:37 |Lupin| is it really true that an ISBN is not a unique identifier ? Are there examples of books that are completely different and still have the same ISBN ?
09:45 Elwell |Lupin|: yep - I've seen US vs Europe have different books from same publisher
09:46 Elwell can't bring up an example now, but I discovered it when doing book lookup via ISBN for a bookseller DB
09:48 chris they also ran out of numbers
09:48 chris hence now its 13
09:49 chris but while it was still 10, the publishers decided to reuse some
09:49 Elwell chris: I thought the move to 13 was to save doing the conversion from raw ISBN to barcode
09:49 Elwell ie, change prefix and checksum
09:50 Elwell 978 is 'bookland' country of origin IIRC
09:50 Elwell but hey, I'm only a geek not a librarian :-)
09:51 Elwell[…](imaginary_place)
09:53 kf different editions can also have the same ISBN
09:54 |Lupin| okay guys, thanks a lot !
09:55 chris Elwell: yeah 978 is for those that had an ISBN 10 already
09:55 chris This change is happening for the following reasons:
09:55 chris to expand the numbering capacity of the ISBN system and alleviate numbering shortages in certain areas of the world;
09:55 chris to fully align the numbering system for books with the global EAN.UCC identification system that is widely used to identify most other consumer goods worldwide.
09:56 |Lupin| hmm I wasn't aware of this one...
09:56 chris |Lupin|: most national librarys act as duplicate clearing houses and report any they find
09:58 |Lupin| chris: not sure I understand what you say correctly... you mean that it is not unusual to get several results for an ISBN search done at a national library ?
09:58 chris it is unusual
09:58 chris but sometimes happens
09:59 |Lupin| I see
09:59 chris not at a national library usually
09:59 chris more likely to happen when you are searching multiple sources
09:59 chris for eg, if i search Library of congress and BNF
10:00 chris i might find 2 items with the same isbn
10:00 |Lupin| chris: if an ISBN search returns only one result, how trustworthy do you hink this result is ? can one be sure that this single result corresponds to the expected book ?
10:00 chris you cant be sure
10:00 |Lupin| could you give a probability ?
10:00 chris but you can assume with a high degree of probability that it is
10:01 |Lupin| yes, that's what I thought
10:01 chris you would need to ask a librarian
10:01 chris :)
10:01 |Lupin| okay
10:01 chris i know that librarything gets isbn collisions every so often
10:02 chris but in that case, there might be typo's involved also
10:02 |Lupin| librarything ?
10:03 chris
10:03 chris i dont use it, but its pretty popular in the US
10:04 |Lupin| ok
10:05 |Lupin| I am currently trying to talk to the Z3950 server of the national library here in France
10:05 |Lupin| it is terrible
10:05 |Lupin| I think I tried 50 times in 24 hours
10:05 |Lupin| and only one or two connections where successful
10:08 nicomo |Lupin|: yep, at BnF their server is basically broken
10:08 nicomo if it's for testing purposes and you ant unimarc records
10:08 nicomo i suggest you try sudoc at
10:09 nicomo
10:09 |Lupin| nicomo: thanks
10:09 nicomo databse name : abes-z39-public
10:09 |Lupin| nicomo: actually it's not for testing
10:09 |Lupin| our library has around 5000 records
10:09 |Lupin| but very incomplete
10:09 |Lupin| no classification information
10:10 |Lupin| and now we would like to create a real catalogue
10:10 |Lupin| so the idea was to gather all the ISBns of the books we have and download the corresponding records from the BnF
10:10 |Lupin| nicomo: but if you have an idea for an alternative strategy, it'd be very appreciated
10:11 chris |Lupin|: is there a chance you can send the ISBN's to BnF
10:11 chris and they send back the MARC
10:11 chris thats what HLT did with the National Library here in NZ
10:11 chris was more efficient than doing 75,000 searches against there z3950 server
10:11 |Lupin| chris: I don't know. I'll have to ask them
10:11 chris there=their
10:12 |Lupin| sure
10:12 |Lupin| that would be very cool actually
10:12 nicomo chris: the french National library doesn't provide that type of service
10:12 chris that's a shame
10:12 |Lupin| nicomo: even to another library ?
10:12 nicomo to tell you the truth I sometimes wonder what service they do provide
10:12 chris heh
10:13 nicomo |Lupin|: yes, even to another library
10:13 |Lupin| it would be funny, wouldn't it be so sad at the same time
10:13 nicomo what they can do is give you a copy of their catalog
10:13 nicomo the whole mess of it
10:13 |Lupin| hmm that wold be cool also !
10:13 |Lupin| how big is it ?
10:14 nicomo about 13 million records i think
10:14 |Lupin| I mean in Ggigabytes...:)
10:14 Elwell When coding a system for a 2nd hand bookseller, I found the best validation was by checking against z39.50
10:15 nicomo Elwell: yes, but they won't provide unimarc records, probably
10:15 |Lupin| Elwell: even for books mostly in french ?
10:15 Elwell |Lupin|: was UK based
10:15 |Lupin| Elwell: and also, it is not only for validation, we want to get the classification data
10:15 Elwell
10:16 Elwell There are no plans to deliver MARC records as part of the Copac service
10:16 nicomo ok
10:16 nicomo interesting though
10:16 nicomo well, that being said, it's lunch time here
10:16 |Lupin| yep, thanks Elwell
10:16 nicomo bon appêtit
10:17 |Lupin| pareil nicomo
10:17 Elwell (was my 1st foray into z39.50 as abebooks' software was merde at the time.
10:18 nicomo Elwell: seems like the most useful french word entered your lexicon first :-)
10:18 |Lupin| :-)
10:19 Elwell nicomo: err, and thats from school too.
10:21 Elwell mais, vous et raison, c'est dejeuner
10:22 chris eiro: just answered your email
11:02 kf lunch time :)

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