IRC log for #koha, 2009-06-16

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:00 |Lupin| I just tried to run the bulkmarcimport script on a file containing just one UNIMARC record.
12:00 |Lupin| This gives me error messages such that
12:00 |Lupin| Use of uninitialized value $biblio_subfield in string at ...
12:01 |Lupin| Did I perhaps forget something ?
12:05 gmcharlt |Lupin|: check your MARC frameworks - it looks like the default framework doesn't have biblio.biblionumber mapped to any subfield
12:09 |Lupin| gmcharlt: I'm sorry but I did not understand your explanations... can you please explain tome with more details ? I'm really a newbie to koha...
12:14 gmcharlt |Lupin|: ok - do you have any MARC frameworks defined?  (look in the MARC biblio framework page off of the Administration page)
12:14 |Lupin| let me see...
12:15 |Lupin| gmcharlt: just FYI, I'm using lynx to connect to koha's admin site, so even thinks like framework are not necessarily very evocative to me...
12:16 gmcharlt |Lupin|: in this case, the link is 'MARC Bibliographic framework' from the admin home page
12:17 |Lupin| koha/admin/ script I assume
12:17 gmcharlt yes
12:18 |Lupin| I think the default one is Structure Marc
12:18 |Lupin| does that make sens ?
12:20 |Lupin| actually there is a link associated to this default thing, but when I follow it I come toa page which is, I think, with javascript
12:20 |Lupin| the link is /cgi-bin/koha/admin/marctag​
12:21 gmcharlt ok, just confirm that a default framework existed
12:22 gmcharlt now go to admin/
12:22 |Lupin| okay
12:22 gmcharlt it should give you a list of which Koha fields are mapped to which MARC fields
12:23 |Lupin| Yes
12:23 |Lupin| I have that, I think
12:23 gmcharlt what tag and subfield is biblionumber mapped to?
12:24 mason `hi galen , lupin
12:25 |Lupin| hmm not obvious to day...
12:26 mason galen , a quick Q...
12:26 mason how often does the ./ cron usually run
12:27 mason every minute / or every hour?
12:27 mason (or anyone else that has an answer too :) )
12:27 |Lupin| gmcharlt: in the table I think biblionumber is associated to nothing
12:28 |Lupin| gmcharlt: There is a link associated to it, and if I follow this link, I can choose a MARC tag and subfield, but I'd say it is not associated to anything so far
12:29 |Lupin| hi mason, sorry for the late reply
12:29 mason heya lupin
12:29 gmcharlt |Lupin|: ok, then set biblionumber to tag 001 (subfield $@)
12:29 gmcharlt and check biblioitems.biblioitemnumber, and if it's not mapped, set to 090 subfield $a
12:30 gmcharlt mason: basically as frequently as the library wants to pull items from the shelf to fill hold requests
12:30 |Lupin| gmcharlt: I fear I won't be able to do it easily through the web interface, because at the moment I don't have a javascript-enabled browser available. Is it feasible through an SQL query ?
12:30 gmcharlt yes
12:31 gmcharlt update marc_subfield_stricture set kohafield = 'biblio.biblionumber' where tagfield = '001' and tagsubfield = '@';
12:32 |Lupin| gmcharlt: okay, thanks ! let me try this and see whether I can then see the mapping...
12:35 mason gmcharlt, ta - ill do some testing with it.
12:35 |Lupin| Query OK, 0 rows affected (0.00 sec)
12:35 |Lupin| Rows matched: 0  Changed: 0  Warnings: 0
12:35 gmcharlt hmm
12:35 gmcharlt select count(*) from marc_tag_structure where tagfield = '001';
12:36 |Lupin| I guess something went wrong, it should have changed one row, right ?
12:36 gmcharlt yes
12:36 gmcharlt and for that matter
12:36 |Lupin| 1 row in set (0.00 sec)
12:36 gmcharlt select count(*) from marc_subfield_structure where tagfield = '001';
12:36 |Lupin| 1 row in set (0.00 sec)
12:37 gmcharlt ok, select tagsubfield, kohafield from marc_subfield_structure where tagfield = '001';
12:38 |Lupin| Empty set (0.00 sec)
12:39 gmcharlt hmm - how many rows are theie in marc_subfield_structure total?
12:39 |Lupin| 0
12:39 |Lupin| (I took your last query and removed the where clause)
12:39 gmcharlt ok, that explains it
12:40 |Lupin| ahah...
12:40 gmcharlt select count(*) from marc_tag_structure;
12:40 |Lupin| I guess I did something the wrong way...
12:40 |Lupin| 1 row in set (0.00 sec)
12:40 gmcharlt you're using UNIMARC?
12:40 gmcharlt English or French?
12:41 |Lupin| I think I'm using unimarc !
12:41 |Lupin| at least that's what I intend to do...
12:41 |Lupin| it's french...
12:41 gmcharlt ok, there are some SQL scripts you can run to load the default frameworks
12:41 |Lupin| Bgreat
12:42 gmcharlt first, do
12:42 gmcharlt delete from biblio_framework;
12:42 gmcharlt delete from marc_tag_structure
12:42 |Lupin| just out of curiosity: how should one do with the web interface ? (this part may be accessible...)
12:42 gmcharlt then load the following scripts forom the installer/data/mysql/fr-FR/ma​rcflavour/unimarc_lecture_pub
12:42 |Lupin| Query OK, 0 rows affected (0.00 sec)
12:43 gmcharlt load Obligatoire/framework_DEFAULT.sql
12:47 |Lupin| gmcharlt: okay, I didn't see your last line so I was looking for the right script to load, I'm almost done
12:48 gmcharlt |Lupin|:  Obligatoire/framework_DEFAULT.sql
12:48 |Lupin| gmcharlt: done
12:48 gmcharlt double-check by doing
12:49 gmcharlt select count(*) from marc_subfield_structure
12:49 |Lupin| mysql> select * from marc_tag_structure;
12:49 |Lupin| 992 rows in set (0.00 sec)
12:50 |Lupin| select count(*) from marc_subfield_structure: 1 row in set (0.00 sec)
12:50 |Lupin| oops I'm not showing the right thing !
12:50 |Lupin| |     6707 |
12:50 gmcharlt whew!
12:50 |Lupin| sorry gmcharlt? I was really dumb...
12:50 gmcharlt at any rate, you should be set to try the run again
12:51 |Lupin| okay ! many many thanks for your patient assistance gmcharlt
12:51 |Lupin| /usr/local/bin/migration_tools/ -c UNIMARC -file marc.dat
12:52 |Lupin| .
12:52 |Lupin| 1 MARC records done in 0.0420000553131104 seconds
12:52 gmcharlt cool
12:53 gmcharlt time to run -b -z
12:53 gmcharlt to index
12:53 |Lupin| ow... actually I have ran this program twice, and the first time it complained about uninitialized values, so I ran it again with a redirection to a log file, and it was not the same result...
12:54 |Lupin| gmcharlt: actually I think koha is configured here to not use zebra...
12:54 gmcharlt ok, then the record you loaded should already be indexed
12:55 |Lupin| let's see
12:57 |Lupin| yes
12:57 |Lupin| it's there
12:58 gmcharlt cool
12:58 |Lupin| thanks a lot Galen ! I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have succedded by myself
13:01 gmcharlt you're welcome
13:12 |Lupin| error: Init rejected (ZOOM:10005)
13:12 |Lupin| Does anybody know what to do with this one ?
13:13 |Lupin| oh actually there are a lot of parameters to specify to establish the Z3950 connection..
14:48 wizzyrea hello
14:57 No_Reply i'm having a bit of trouble with koha-marc mapping...
14:58 No_Reply my Item Callnumbers weren't correctly mapped when the database was built
14:58 No_Reply i've remapped them but need to figure out what script to use to rebuild under 3.0.1
15:02 No_Reply or better yet, the MARC framework tests don't like me mapping itemcallnumber to the anything other than 952, though the call numbers are in 942k
15:03 |Lupin| I'm looking for a document that would give an overview of the key concepts one needs to nderstand to have a good idea about what koha can do and where to look for a given feature. Does such a docuemnt exist ?
15:04 |Lupin| I'm thinking about concepts such as item types, branches, and all these things that are rather mysterious to the newbie I am
15:04 No_Reply you might try
15:04 No_Reply if you haven't already looked at that
15:05 |Lupin| No_Reply: perhaps the first visit was too shallow... I'll retry
15:30 No_Reply does anyone have any insight on this call number issue? or is no one about?
15:34 |Lupin| No_Reply: I don't know, sorry
15:35 No_Reply thanks |Lupin|, how's the documentation reading coming?
15:39 |Lupin| No_Reply: well... the reference manual it's a per-module description of koha. I think I'd prefer (need) a higher level description introducing all the concepts and explaining a bit he impact of the choices one does
15:40 No_Reply right
15:40 No_Reply what kind of environment are you looking at using it in?
15:41 |Lupin| No_Reply: it is somewhat specific
15:42 |Lupin| No_Reply: we have a digital library here, which provides digital books to blind persons who can download them and read them in a secured way
15:42 No_Reply quite interesting
15:42 |Lupin| No_Reply: all the library has ben home-made, a few years ago. Now the organization wants to rewrite it around Koha.
15:43 |Lupin| No_Reply: my task is to do that and to see which tools provided by Koha can be used to handle our particular problems (we have files rather than material books, etc.).
15:44 |Lupin| No_Reply: yes it is interesting, I agree. It's just that I feel not very well armed to solve the problem
15:44 No_Reply I don't really have much advice for you there--I haven't had to use electronic resources with koha at all
15:48 |Lupin| No_Reply: np
15:58 |Lupin| bye all
15:58 atz |Lupin|:  damn... he lleft
15:58 wizzyrea oh, I was going to suggest that he look at something like greenstone
15:58 wizzyrea instead of koha for managing digital collections
15:59 wizzyrea oh well
15:59 atz yeah, either that or something like 658$u for the URLs?
15:59 wizzyrea yea, or that
16:00 No_Reply greenstone looks like a good pick for him, at a glance
16:00 No_Reply hadn't heard of that
16:02 No_Reply do either of you have any ideas about how i can fix my call number issue
16:02 No_Reply i'm sure it's something silly, but can't seem to figure out how it is supposed to work
16:03 atz No_Reply: you could just re-import and overlay the corrected records
16:03 No_Reply atz: the marc records are correct
16:04 atz or rather, the adjusted-to-be-what-koha-expects records
16:05 atz or am i misunderstanding the problem?
16:05 No_Reply do i need to move all the itemcallnumbers to a 952 field?
16:06 No_Reply the problem is that I don't get call numbers under 'normal' view on a search
16:06 atz i don't know.  for the default default framework, i think so.  
16:06 atz if that makes sense...
16:06 No_Reply the marc record has call numbers in 050
16:07 No_Reply and in 942k
16:08 No_Reply i'd much rather re-map the framework than move all the call numbers to a different MARC field--though i don't know whether in theory they should be in 952 rather than 942
16:08 atz need somebody w/ more cataloging chops than me
16:10 No_Reply 942 might be something left over from our koha 2.2 database
16:10 No_Reply it is labeled 'biblioitem information' in the framework
16:11 atz i know the itemcallnumber is held at the item level in koha 3.x ...
16:11 No_Reply whereas 952 is ITEM INFORMATION
16:11 atz right
16:12 atz that is the mapping that makes sense to me, since the same biblio record will apply to items in different libraries or in different collections of the same library.
16:12 No_Reply there isn't any place for a call number under 952 as it exists on our system
16:14 No_Reply atz: suppose i were to change my Koha to Marc mappings.  What script would I need to run?
16:14 No_Reply my librarian interface warns me i should run
16:15 No_Reply but that doesn't exist in my installation
16:15 atz checking
16:15 No_Reply has it perhaps been replaced by
16:16 atz No_Reply: yes, the internal docs for that script refer to it as "rebuildnonmarc"
16:16 No_Reply that's what i figured
16:17 atz the new name is better... but it would be nice if the docs internal and external were updated at the same time as the rename
16:17 No_Reply yes
16:18 atz the script appears to be the right one though
16:19 atz i'll update the old references now
16:23 No_Reply as a hypothetical, if i remapped items.itemcallnumber to 942k and ran that script despite the warnings that the MARC Framework Test throws at me, what would be the likely result?
16:23 No_Reply is that a real no-no, or just bad form?
16:24 atz best I can say is "results undetermined"
16:25 No_Reply this is what i have a functional backup for, i suppose
16:32 No_Reply hmmm, i'm unsure if this is actually a mapping problem... remapping itemcallnumber from blank to 942k doesn't help at all
16:32 atz patch sent
16:33 atz we could use somebody who does more dataloading on this question
16:34 wizzyrea too bad Marc or Michele aren't around
16:34 No_Reply err, strike that, errors thrown all over the place when i run
16:35 No_Reply .Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at /usr/.../C4/ line 2811.
16:36 schuster If you plan to get records from vendors in the future I would recommend you use 952$o for the item call number.
16:36 No_Reply schuster, sure thing
16:37 No_Reply what might be the best way to move the current records?
16:37 schuster If you can't get to the 952$o you can use MarcEdit to move and copy that information into a 952$o
16:37 schuster If you have already loaded the bib and items - maybe it would be worth to strip those and reload after you "massaged" the data to load?
16:41 No_Reply you've lost me, i'm not sure what i want to strip--this is a live database for a working library
17:00 schuster Oh then that doesn't work - so the call number doesn't show for anything?  You are on version 3 right?
17:00 No_Reply on 3.0.1 yes
17:00 No_Reply it shows up under marc
17:00 No_Reply but not under the 'normal' view on the OPAC or Librarian Interface
17:01 No_Reply which i take to mean that the data is good, in some sense of the term but that koha can't find it due to some kind of mapping issue
17:04 No_Reply if it helps, this is a recent upgrade from version 2.25-2.29 to 3.01
18:57 chris morning
18:57 pianohacker Good morning
18:57 gmcharlt hi chris
18:59 cait good morning chris
19:01 rhcl Hi Chris
19:09 chris hows the new siding working out for ya Lybrarian ?
19:10 Sharon So far, so good. Only half done, but it looks awesome.  I'll have the nicest trailer in the park ;-)
19:12 chris sweet :)
19:14 Sharon Rent a spot, then fight with them about the sewer and tree limbs
19:16 chris ahhh :)
19:17 chris so landlords in the true sense of the word
19:21 chris ok im being told "my puku (stomach in maori) is saying 'hungry'"
19:21 chris which is kahu's way of asking for \
19:21 chris breakfast
19:21 chris bbiab
19:33 chris right, some apple, some cereal and some peanut butter on toast, he's happy
19:36 rhcl So chris, do you commonly use Maori words/phrases in New Zealand, or within your family?
19:42 chris yep
19:42 chris i try to talk to Kahu in maori
19:43 paul_p hello chris.
19:43 chris and my parents do also, and laurel does for the words/phrases she knows .. there is so much english around him he picks all that up easy too
19:44 chris he mixes and matches depending on who is talking to him
19:44 chris hi there paul_p :)
19:44 paul_p was the match nice ? were all blacks poor or frenchies really good ?
19:45 paul_p strangely, the newspaper here did not speak of this victory that much.
19:45 chris frenchies good
19:45 chris all blacks very rusty
19:45 chris intercept pass, caused a try, which lost the match
19:46 chris but in the first half, at 35 mins it was 17-3 to france
19:46 wizzyrea is this cricket?
19:46 chris was 17-11 at halftime
19:46 chris wizzyrea: rugby
19:46 paul_p wizzyrea: nope.
19:46 wizzyrea AHHH
19:46 paul_p noone plays cricket in france. really.
19:46 wizzyrea you lost us poor kansans for a minute there
19:47 wizzyrea ah, nobody plays either here for the most part ^.^
19:47 chris wizzyrea: rugby in winter, cricket in summer
19:47 wizzyrea all we know is basketball >.>
19:47 chris those are the religions in nz :)
19:47 wizzyrea especially in lawrence
19:47 cait no rugby or cricket in germany
19:47 paul_p 40 clubs & 800 players in france.
19:47 nicomo_laptop chris : so british
19:47 cait dont even know which ball it is played with
19:48 nicomo_laptop wizzyrea: there's a novel about a guy trying to set up a cricket stadium in NYC
19:49 nicomo_laptop a dutch guy married to a british girl, trying to play cricket in NYC with guys from Pakistan and India and the West Indy
19:49 nicomo_laptop but granted : cricket seems exotic in the US, I guess
19:50 chris cait:[…]_rugby_union_team
19:50 paul_p very tired & 10PM here in montauban (training the public library that will go live next week)
19:50 paul_p so going to bed.
19:51 pianohacker 'night
19:51 paul_p bye everybody & have a good day or evening, or night, depending on where you are ;-)
19:51 cait chris: uh
19:51 chris[…]on_in_new_zealand
19:51 chris cya paul_p sleep well
19:53 cait night paul
19:54 chris cait: so you have a rugby team they just arent very good :-)
19:54 cait and nobody knows they exist g
19:54 chris hehe except the people in it
19:54 cait With the exception of a number of players who play in France, the German team is still largely an amateur side.
19:54 chris *nod*
19:54 cait says wikipedia
19:55 cait hm :)
19:55 chris[…]_rugby_union_team
19:55 paul_p 10 years ago the italian team was unknown anywhere in Italy. Now they play the 6 nation tournament. They usually score 5 losses for 0 win, but sometimes 1 or even 2 wins. Maybe in a few years, we will have a 7 nations tournament ;-)
19:56 chris they scored a try against australia this weekend, first try in quite a few games :) (italy that is)
19:58 cait g
19:59 chris i remember in 2005, the US rugby team beat England (in rugby 7's) in wellington
19:59 cait ok, going to bed now - I hope I will dream about Koha konfiguration again :)
20:00 chris it was strange hearing 45,000 nzers chanting "USA, USA"
20:00 pianohacker Enemy of my enemy?
20:00 chris yep :)
20:00 chris and everyone loves the underdog
20:01 nicomo_laptop chris: for KohaCon, pls make it Cricket if at all possible
20:01 nicomo_laptop I'd love to have an opportunity to learn the rules
20:01 chris well that would work better, summer is a nicer time to visit anyway :)
20:02 chris  
20:03 paul_p nicomo_laptop: except at KohaCon we need techies, so you'll have to learn Perl 1st :D
20:03 chris (russel and I do the website)
20:03 nicomo_laptop that's a cheap shot paul_p
20:03 nicomo_laptop I've a lot of commercial work to do in the South Pacific
20:03 nicomo_laptop :-)
20:04 chris[…]6/Russ_distracted
20:12 chris[…]/album02/P1260305
20:13 chris[…]y/album02/everest
20:13 chris is my fave one still :)
20:53 richard hi
20:56 pianohacker hello
20:56 wizzyrea heya richard
20:57 chris have ppl met richard before, richard is a katipod :)
20:59 chris and the 28th committer to Koha
20:59 wizzyrea ooh, no
20:59 wizzyrea nice!
20:59 hdl_laptop hi richard
21:00 richard sorry, was on a coffee run
21:13 joetho <--working on perl
21:14 wizzyrea joetho: ORLY?
21:15 pianohacker Which perl?
21:20 joetho hi jessie
21:20 joetho well so far it hasn't told me.
21:20 joetho just a book
21:21 joetho But it is the one people make computers do stuff with.
21:21 joetho I have downloaded some stuff to install on my laptop but haven't done anything with it yet. Too busy.
21:35 ryan lol
21:36 pianohacker Ah well, I can wait
21:56 pianohacker schuster: Do you think it would work to add spine labels to a batch that could be printed out at a later date?
22:01 schuster I'm not overly interested in that as it can be done currently - we don't batch print usually we are doing on at a time and each person then can add them as needed.
22:01 pianohacker Ahh, okay
22:11 chris back
22:25 schuster front
22:25 chris :)
22:25 schuster sorry couldn't resist working 10 hour days to have 3 day weekends - makes us giddy at the end of the day.
22:25 chris did you see my "spaceball" photo schuster ?
22:26 schuster I've been gone for several days so I missed it!
22:26 chris[…]wen-joe-and-jane/
22:27 schuster HA!  Kinda like my 4 year old that keeps saying he needs a chin guard to play Soccer(shin...)
22:27 schuster He probably wants the hood because you probably had one on out in the cold/rain!
22:28 chris could well be :)
22:29 schuster Well that's it for me my brain is fried!  time to head out!
22:31 pianohacker Apparently I'm not a father; first thing I noticed about that photo was the wide-screen TV
22:34 chris heh
22:34 chris yeah, its actually a montior
22:34 chris ie it came without a tuner
22:34 chris which is why we got it absurdly cheap, because no one could figure it out
22:34 pianohacker Does it have composite/component/etc. inputs, or just VGA/DVI? Nice deal
22:34 chris SCART
22:35 chris 4 SCART and one VGA
22:35 chris so just got some composite to scart converters
22:35 chris and plugged the cable box into that, and the dvd into another and done
22:36 chris on, no speakers either, but thats easy fix too ... sound all goes into a stereo
22:37 chris we went into the shop with the plan to get a 32inch .. but there was this 50inch for less!!!!
22:37 chris (plasma)
22:39 chris ohhh kick ass
22:39 chris ryan++
22:39 chris debra_denault++
23:00 jwagner chris, just saw your link & the picture.  Baseball wins another convert!
23:03 chris :)
23:07 jwagner Good night all...
23:08 chris night jwagner
23:29 brendan @wunder santa barbara, CA
23:30 munin brendan: The current temperature in Near Mission - TC, Santa Barbara, California is 20.0°C (4:29 PM PDT on June 15, 2009). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 50%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 29.97 in 1014.8 hPa (Falling).
23:30 brendan when will these clouds go away -- this is supposed to be sunny cali -- but nothing but clouds for like three weeks
23:30 chris heh
23:30 brendan chris here's to spaceball
23:31 brendan sounds like an exciting new development for the game
23:33 chris hehe
23:52 brendan ok heading home -- be back in a bit
23:52 pianohacker 'night, all
00:27 Jo morning all
00:27 Jo Chris : are you about per chance
00:29 brendan heya jo
00:29 Jo hey Bren dan
00:29 Jo lo sorry - Brendan
00:29 brendan chris has been in and out
00:29 Jo hey our new style / theme you saw for the OPAC will be applied to opur intranet too, and also our internal Kete
00:29 Jo I figured ..
00:30 Jo I might email him - it was just an off chance
00:30 brendan oh cool
00:31 brendan when that's up -- would love to sneak peek!
00:31 Jo might be able to arrange something  :)
00:31 brendan cool -- back to doing the dishes ;)
00:32 Jo and i shall continue the final edit of our code4lib paper - being published on the 22nd
00:37 chris sup jo?
00:37 Jo hey chris
03:11 brendan the permissions in init.d for koha-zebra-daemon should be the zebrauser correct and not root ?
03:12 chris root is fine, it will run as the user specified in that script
03:14 brendan right -- I just scrambled to my other server and saw that it has root for permissions -- guess I should research first (follow my librarian back-ground) instead
03:14 chris all the scripts in init.d are owned by root (on my machines anyway)
03:15 brendan mine too...  basically everything except the users home folders are root ... on mine
03:22 Amit hi brendan,chris, mason
03:23 Amit good morning #koha
03:23 chris hi Amit
03:23 brendan heya Amit
03:23 brendan @wunder bangalore india
03:23 munin brendan: Error: No such location could be found.
03:23 brendan @wunder delhi, india
03:23 Amit chris: So NZ T20 match today
03:23 munin brendan: Error: No such location could be found.
03:23 Amit hi munin
03:23 brendan @wunder new delhi, india
03:23 munin brendan: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 27.0°C (8:30 AM IST on June 16, 2009). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: 21.0°C. Pressure: 29.68 in 1005 hPa (Steady).
03:24 brendan not too hot yet Amit
03:24 Amit munin this is a morning temp
03:24 munin Amit: I suck
03:24 Amit but in day delhi is very hot
03:24 brendan hehe
03:25 brendan amit -- anything new ?
03:25 Amit no
03:25 Amit i m planning for MLIS course
03:25 brendan cool
03:25 brendan which university?
03:26 Amit Indian Institute of Science
03:26 Amit planning only
03:26 Amit hope
03:26 brendan well good luck
03:27 brendan wish you the best
03:27 Amit thanks
03:27 Amit brendan: any new from your side
03:27 brendan not really
03:28 brendan my baseball team -- that I root for -- sucks
03:29 brendan but that is part of being a fan of that team
03:29 Amit my indian team out of T20 world cup
03:29 brendan bummer
03:29 brendan do you watch any of it ?
03:29 chris nz will probably go out today
03:29 Amit hmm
03:29 brendan well let's root for NZ today
03:30 Amit Srilanka is strong as compare to NZ
03:30 Amit chris: i m right
03:30 brendan hehe
03:30 brendan amit kohacon in india 2011 ?
03:30 Amit sure
03:30 brendan we should plan it
03:31 chris brendan: the hard thing is, even if we beat them, we have to beat them by a big big margin
03:31 Amit this is good
03:31 Amit yes
03:31 Amit chris: Runrate is important
03:31 brendan why a big margin -- isn't a win a win ?
03:31 chris like amit said, run rate is important
03:32 brendan kind of understand - but not really
03:32 Amit Chris: I think South Africa Win T20 world cup this time
03:32 chris there are 8 teams going for 4 spots in the semi finals started off with 16
03:32 brendan so you get ahead by your stats
03:32 chris plus wins
03:32 chris so if we have 2 wins and someone else has 2 wins
03:32 chris we go ahead with superior run rate
03:32 brendan they should have a playoff
03:33 richard i doubt the tournament would ever finish if they had playoffs :)
03:33 chris yeah :)
03:33 brendan :)
03:33 brendan introduce sudden death
03:34 Amit hi richard
03:34 richard hi amit
03:34 brendan or golden century or something
03:34 Amit richard: r u interested in cricket matches
03:35 richard yep
03:36 richard enjoying a refreshing breeze coming off antarctica
03:38 chris yeah
03:38 brendan NZ have any chance in the fifa tournament?
03:38 chris Feels like -3C - 7 layers of clothing are recommended to remain comfortable in these conditions
03:38 chris brr
03:38 chris brendan: nope
03:39 richard if sri lanka miss they bus, nz will make the final :)
03:39 richard they = their
03:39 Amit he he richard
03:40 brendan flat tires in the forecast
03:40 richard @wunder wellington, new zealand
03:40 munin richard: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 6.0°C (3:00 PM NZST on June 16, 2009). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 2.0°C. Windchill: 0.0°C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Rising).
03:40 brendan @wunder sri lanka bus
03:40 munin brendan: Error: No such location could be found.
03:41 brendan hey that's good news -- they couldn't find the bus
03:41 chris heh
03:41 richard :0
03:41 brendan is the match being payed now ?
03:42 brendan I'd like to follow along
03:42 chris not for a while yet
03:42 Amit hi JO
03:43 chris 12.30 gmt brendan
03:43 chris[…]match/356013.html
03:43 Amit chris: WI  in semi
03:43 brendan @gcalc 12:30 gmt in pst
03:43 munin brendan: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.
03:45 brendan 4:30 am here
03:45 brendan thinking I won't check the first few innings
03:49 chris :)
04:32 chris ok off to pick up kahu
04:33 richard cya
05:01 Jo hi AMit
05:02 Amit heya Jo
05:02 Jo havn't seen you online for a while,
05:03 Jo and hadn't realised you support Kete as well as Koha.
05:03 Jo :)
05:03 Amit we have installed kete
05:03 Amit R &D is going on
05:03 Jo cool.... thats been my project
05:04 Jo great to have more brains working on it
05:04 Amit yes
05:06 Jo right, off home. cya
05:34 brendan goodnight #koha
05:46 Amit hi paul_p
06:01 richard @wunder wellington, new zealand
06:01 munin richard: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 7.0°C (5:00 PM NZST on June 16, 2009). Conditions: Light Rain Showers. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 2.0°C. Windchill: 2.0°C. Pressure: 29.80 in 1009 hPa (Rising).
06:01 chris lies
06:01 chris its freezing out there :)
06:01 richard sure is :(
06:08 Amit tandoori means chris
06:08 chris Amit: it is the name of an indian restaurant (and takeaways)
06:09 Amit hmm tandoori roti
06:16 Elwell chris: I assume there's a kilbirnie in .nz, as the kilbirnie in scotland is um, err, to use the politically correct term, pile o sh*te
06:17 richard kilbirnie is a wellington suburb - close to the airport
06:24 Elwell ah K
06:25 richard the kilbirnie website doesn't inspire much confidence -
06:26 chris hehe
06:26 Elwell richard: yup. that about sums the place up
06:58 hdl_laptop1 hi kf
07:00 Amit hi hdl
07:00 hdl_laptop1 hi Amit
07:04 kf hi hdl and Amit
07:04 Amit hi kf
07:17 chris hi europe :)
07:22 kf hi chris
07:25 Kivutar hi :)
07:33 |Lupin| Hello everybody
07:43 chris hi |Lupin|
07:45 |Lupin| good evening chris
07:46 |Lupin| what's the time difference between France and New Zealand ?
07:47 chris pretty much 12 hours
07:47 |Lupin| okay
07:48 chris (its not really, but its close enough, its usually the opposite time)
07:48 chris its 7.50pm on tuesday
07:49 chris and must be about 9.50am for you?
07:49 |Lupin| yes
07:49 chris at the moment nz is UTC + 12 .. in summer its UTC + 13
07:49 chris davi: the king and queen of spain are visiting wellington this month :)
07:50 |Lupin| and we are UTC+2 now, I think
07:51 chris sounds about right
07:53 |Lupin| yesterday i explored koha's client staff web interface... I think it is not usable with lynx, there are too many things that require javascript. I think it wold be hard to provide non-javascript alternatives, so I am wondering ho things cold be improved. I'm wondering, e.g., how difficult it would be to provide a command-line interface for some functionalities...
07:54 chris probably harder than fixing it to work without javascript :)
07:55 chris im from the old school, i think things should work without javascript, and javascript used to make things work better, but not nessecary
07:55 |Lupin| chris: really ? I thought it would be hard to implement functionalities without javascript, for instance because some data tests seem to be done in the javascript part and not in the perl scripts.
07:55 chris yeah, that should be fixed
07:55 chris it should be done in both
07:56 |Lupin| chris: I agree
07:56 chris you shouldnt depend on the client for data validation
07:56 chris because the client may be malicious
07:56 |Lupin| chris: if one could achieve a web-based solution which would work even with lynx, that would be great I think
07:56 |Lupin| chris: I wish I had more time to contribute.
07:56 chris (by client i mean webbrowser, not the person using it)
07:57 davi chris, Good to know. I am overloaded since some month ago
07:57 davi later
07:57 chris by just asking for it, and documenting the places where it needs fixing is helping |Lupin|
07:57 |Lupin| chris: yes, that's also my point of view. But here e are talking about clients that are authenticated, so maybe that's why the developers were not too picky about server-side data validation
07:58 chris ahh yes, but they might be the subject of a XSS attack
07:59 |Lupin| chris: well even something like adding a bibliographic record can't be done with lynx at the moment
07:59 chris *nod*
07:59 chris in terms of that, you can use
08:00 chris to laod a marc record that you have created elsewhere
08:00 chris but it would be nice that if you didnt have js enabled, you just got one huge form to fill in
08:01 chris and if you had repeatable fields it would have to be a few steps
08:02 |Lupin| chris: yes, something like that
08:02 chris i don't think it is something that will get done in the near future, ever since marc support was added that has needed javascript (original koha without marc had no compulsory js)
08:03 chris but its worth keeping asking for it :)
08:04 |Lupin| chris: concernintg bulkmarcimport, that's indeed what I'm currently sing, but I guess it must be used with some attention, first because I don't know how much data checks it performs on the validity of the MARC records, second because one probably has to double-check e.g. hich charset koha wants in the records and things like that
08:04 chris yep, it will only accept valid marc records
08:04 chris and utf8 encoded is the best bet
08:06 |Lupin| chris: I think koha can also query Z3950 servers for marc records, and that is not accessible either. Perhaps this part would be easier to make accessible, because there is no marc iditing involved... ?
08:06 chris yep that would be easier to do
08:06 |Lupin| chris: okay, thanks a lot for this clarification
08:06 hdl_laptop1 |Lupin|: you could add some enhancement for use without js in bugzilla
08:07 |Lupin| hdl_laptop1: okay
08:07 hdl_laptop1 and explain why.
08:08 hdl_laptop1 The problem is that user likes to be able to add fields and subfields on the fly without querying the server (and this is done via js DOM manipulation.)
08:08 |Lupin| chris: it'd not only be easier, I think, but also, in a way, more precious. Because I think when I want to play at MARC level, I don't mind doing so in Perl. Whereas when I want to do a high level thing like adding a bibliographic record form our national library, then this lends itself more to be done in the web interface.
08:09 |Lupin| Not sure whether I'm clear or not...
08:09 chris yep
08:09 chris that makes sense |Lupin|
08:11 |Lupin| hdl_laptop1: they don't want to query the server because this would make things slower, you mean ?
08:11 hdl_laptop1 yes.
08:12 hdl_laptop1 + would require loading all the data back and forth.
08:14 |Lupin| hdl_laptop1: I think I can imagine several ways to make this possible even without javascript. For instance one could have a big form with all the marc fields and define a character that could be used as a separator for the repetable fields. I'm not saying this wold be convenient or comfortable. I'd just be there for those user who can't use the beautiful javascript thing and it would be etter than nothing, IMO
08:16 hdl_laptop1 |Lupin|: this (using | as duplicate subfields) was done for 2.2. But you have subfields and fields duplication.
08:16 hdl_laptop1 so you would require 2 special characters
08:16 hdl_laptop1 + | is used in MARC21 as empty character for fixed data.
08:17 hdl_laptop1 So it has been a problem for american ppl.
08:17 |Lupin| hdl_laptop1: or perhaps the editor could allow dupplication only of subfields, and have buttons to add other fields with the same tag ?
08:18 hdl_laptop1 (this was the way it was done in 2.2, before ppl urgely requested for javascript)
08:20 |Lupin| hdl_laptop1: but the two are not incompatible... the old way could be kept as a fallback
08:24 hdl_laptop1 |Lupin|: this would require maintaining two different ways to manage cataloguing.
08:26 |Lupin| hdl_laptop1: I understand. I thought it did not represent a lot of code, but I may very well be wrong on that.
08:29 hdl_laptop1 it is not (only) the number of lines of code. It is also the question of maintaining the code.
08:30 |Lupin| hdl_laptop1: and as I said, not being able to enter MARC records is not what I miss most.
08:30 hdl_laptop1 But please file an enhancement request.
08:30 |Lupin| hdl_laptop1: I'm more missing the ability to query Z39.50 servers directly from within Koha
08:30 hdl_laptop1 And try to make a kind of priority.
08:30 |Lupin| hdl_laptop1: okay
08:31 |Lupin| hdl_laptop1: I think I may file one just for the Z39.50 thing at the moment.. what do you think ?
08:32 hdl_laptop1 file things you really want.
08:32 hdl_laptop1 or need
08:32 |Lupin| okay
08:34 |Lupin| I'll first play with the interface under Windows so that I can use js, and then when I have a better idea about how things work I'll file the enhancement request
08:54 No_Reply hi all
08:58 |Lupin| hi No_Reply
09:04 No_Reply hey |Lupin|: did someone get a chance to tell you about Greenstone?
09:04 Amit hi No_Reply
09:07 No_Reply hi Amit: I'm having some trouble with koha-MARC mapping that people didn't have much help for yesterday, maybe you can help me out?
09:07 Amit yes
09:07 Amit tell
09:07 Amit No_Reply
09:08 No_Reply i have a system I've moved up from 2.2.5 through 2.2.9 and is currently running 3.0.1
09:08 No_Reply the problem is that in 'Normal' view for any given record, the call number is missing
09:09 Amit hmmm
09:09 No_Reply our call numbers are in marc 942k
09:09 |Lupin| No_Reply: yes, heard about it. Can't remember why we decided not o use it actually. Prhaps it is missng MARC support ?
09:10 No_Reply someone yesterday suggested that we move them to 952$o or some such
09:10 No_Reply i'd rather avoid doing that on a live database, though
09:10 Amit but in 3.0.1 call number 952$o
09:10 No_Reply but koha doesn't like remapping to 942
09:11 Amit No_Reply u should map your call no to 952$o
09:11 No_Reply ok, what's the best way to change the MARC records?
09:12 Amit go to ur koha-->Administration-->Koha to MARC mapping
09:13 chris Amit: he has a whole lot of old records that he needs to change, so just changing the mapping wont change them
09:13 No_Reply yes, that's the problem exactly
09:13 No_Reply i've got 8 or 9 thousand records that need to be moved over
09:14 Amit k
09:14 Amit ok chris
09:14 chris and you have circulation records for them right No_Reply ?
09:14 No_Reply right, library has been live for years
09:14 chris which means we cant just export them, change them, and reload them, because they will get new itemnumbers
09:15 chris and no longer match their circ data
09:15 chris you would need to script something to change, essentially you want to edit every item
09:16 Amit yes ur right chris
09:16 No_Reply chris: i thought about writing a script to move swap everything, but i wasn't confident enough in my knowledge of Koha's database to assume I knew all the db entries to change
09:16 Amit i have already migrated koha-2.2.9 data to koha 3 for delhi public library
09:16 Amit but in dpl case circulation is not stated in koha-2.2.9 so migration is easy
09:16 chris the problem is this is post migration Amit
09:16 Amit k
09:17 chris No_Reply: it would be best to use the subroutines for editing marc records in koha, then the right fields will be filled out
09:18 No_Reply chris: this is new to me, tell me more
09:19 chris so get all the items that need to be changed, loop through them and call ModItemFromMarc
09:19 chris for each one
09:23 chris No_Reply: do perldoc C4/
09:23 No_Reply sure, taking a look
09:24 chris actually you could just use ModItem
09:24 No_Reply I'll look at both
09:25 chris so get a list of itemnumbers, get the itemdata for each of them (GetItem) and then change itemcallnumber to be the value you get from 942k and then ModItem it
09:25 chris something like that anyway
09:25 chris of course i would take a copy of the db
09:25 No_Reply that sounds about right
09:25 No_Reply i have good backups
09:25 chris and do this on another koha
09:25 No_Reply and a live backup server to test on
09:25 chris cool that'll work
09:28 Elwell Q - has anyone here done stuff like MySQL replication onto backup server (for devel purposes)?
09:28 chris yep
09:28 |Lupin| When migrating a home-made poor man's catalog to koha, where should the old record numbers be stored ? Is this what is called call numbers, what you guys are talking about ?
09:28 chris HLT has been doing that since 2000 Elwell
09:28 Elwell any gotchas or just works?
09:29 chris they run all their reports against the backup server
09:29 chris that way doesnt slow done the live one
09:29 chris just works
09:30 chris |Lupin|: call numbers are things like Dewey, or LCCN
09:30 chris basically shelving location
09:30 |Lupin| chris: I see. So it's not the same thing...
09:31 chris nope
09:31 |Lupin| So is there a place where these old record numbers could be stored ?
09:31 chris somewhere in the 900's
09:31 chris 999 something :)
09:31 |Lupin| chris: ok :)
09:32 chris in MARC21 anyway
09:32 chris 900's are local use
09:32 kf are 900's overwritten by import?
09:32 |Lupin| we'll also have to store whether a record refers to a book in the private or public domain... any idea where this could go ?
09:32 chris kf: everythign is overwritten by import
09:33 chris if you have -d
09:33 kf ok
09:33 chris somewhere in the local use fields too |Lupin|
09:34 kf something like update record but keep local use fields would be nice
09:35 chris yep
09:35 chris the way i have done that
09:35 chris is export the records, and combine it with the new one, keeping the 900's, then import it back in
09:35 chris but a nice merge utility in koha would be excellent
09:36 kf but you need an extra script to do it - and updating with z.39.50 will still delete the 900's
09:36 chris yep
09:36 kf we will have regular data import with updated titles from union catalog
09:36 chris what i was doing was fetch the record from z3950
09:37 chris at the commandline, and run my script to merge it
09:37 kf if a title is updated in union catalog, it will get in data import
09:37 kf and overwrite everything
09:37 chris yep, thats why i was doing it with my script
09:38 kf ok, will keep this in mind for our next meeting
09:38 chris keeping all the local use data
09:38 kf in our case it will be nightly import
09:38 chris (barcodes etc)
09:38 kf as title cataloging is done in union catalog
09:38 chris but id still like to be able to do it in koha
09:39 kf items will be managed only in Koha
09:39 kf problem is the library specific information, that will be in holdings records
09:39 chris yep
09:40 kf and should go to title fields
09:40 |Lupin| chris: okay, thanks
10:11 No_Reply chris: still around?
10:12 chris yep
10:13 No_Reply looking at ModItem and not really sure what kind of input it wants for {column => $newvalue }
10:13 No_Reply maybe you can give me an example
10:13 No_Reply or just the name of a script that already uses it
10:14 chris thats a hashref
10:15 chris so
10:15 chris my %item;
10:15 chris $item{'itemcallnumber'} = '1234b';
10:15 No_Reply right
10:15 No_Reply ok
10:15 chris then pass it as \%item;
10:17 chris i like perl6 more, but i like 5.10 just fine
10:18 No_Reply i've been spoiled by ruby, i'm afraid
10:19 chris i dont hate ruby, i dont love it either though
10:19 |Lupin| chris: ok :) I tried to deepen my understanding of the language several times but I was never successfull. I can't develop a good intuition about how things work, never know e.g. if it's $ or % etc.
10:19 chris it works, perl works :)
10:19 chris yeah 6 is a lot clearer |Lupin|
10:19 |Lupin| chris: never tried Ruby
10:20 chris the thing that perl has that makes me love it is CPAN
10:20 |Lupin| chris: but will 6 one day become widespread ?
10:20 No_Reply CPAN is wonderful
10:20 chris |Lupin|: im sure it will
10:20 |Lupin| chris: I understand that CPAN is likeable
10:21 chris im just glad Koha isnt java :)
10:21 chris course id only have myself to blame if it was hehe
10:24 chris |Lupin|: nahuel is a big python fan
10:24 chris we have all sorts in the community
10:24 nahuel chris, java is cool :)
10:25 nahuel (hi)
10:26 |Lupin| hi nahuel :)
10:26 nahuel héhé
10:27 chris if it was java, we'd still be writing the spec
10:27 chris 9 years after we started :-)
10:27 nahuel ahah, now, with perl, we are bugfixing every day
10:28 nahuel :)
10:28 chris that's not perls fault :)
10:28 kf :)
10:29 |Lupin| ok guys, lunch time here, 'd night chris in case you go sleeping before I'm back
10:29 chris yep ill be going to bed soon
11:34 Amit hi jwagner
11:57 jatillaso hi
11:57 Amit hi jrs
11:59 No_Reply hi Amit
11:59 Amit hi No_Reply

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