IRC log for #koha, 2007-10-03

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:48 kados morning all
13:05 kados hey foxnorth
13:44 hdl hiya kados
14:30 paul kados : about your question "some patches today" you sent at 0:00 (GMT+2), the answer is : nope, I forgot to send what I had in my queue. What about the idea of having a copy of all what is sent to to koha-cvs ML ? thus, you would know what is waiting mdoeration.
14:31 paul (+ to let you know : 6 new patches in our queue)
14:47 slef I prefer emf to jmf.
14:47 slef hi all
14:47 jmf hey slef
14:48 jmf just logging in from another box
14:48 jmf paul: you here?
14:48 paul yep
14:49 foxnorth paul: what should NoZebraIndexes be set to if we have NoZebra set to 0 in system preferences?
14:49 paul one of them being chris catalfo ? (seen the 1st bugreport from him)
14:50 jmf paul: and what should NoZebraIndexes be set to if NoZebra is set to 1 ?
14:50 jmf foxnorth: your NoZebra is set to 1 :-)
14:50 paul foxnorth: whatever you want if set to 0, it's useless.
14:51 paul jmf : look at misc/migration_tools/
14:51 paul the value for unimarc is here. (although not complete probably)
14:52 paul you'll see how it works. basically, it's just a hash where you specify your indexes and the fields/subfields that are related to the index
14:52 jmf ok, we'll work on marc21 next
15:03 jmf paul: is it normal for bulkmarcimpor to be very slow with NoZebra?
15:03 paul yes ;-)
15:03 paul the fast way to do it is :
15:03 jmf and can you confirm that -d doesn't work with bulkmarcimport?
15:03 paul - set NoZebra=0
15:03 paul - bulkmarcimport
15:04 paul - rebuild_nozebra to set NoZebra=1 again & reindex everything in 1 mySQL query.
15:04 jmf ok
15:04 jmf paul: I think bulkmarcimport should be smart enough to do that :-)
15:04 paul it's exactly as for zebra in fact : if you query zoom for each record, it's slow. if you rebuild all at the end, it's fast
15:05 jmf *nod*
15:05 paul jmf : at least, I have to write some doc to explain !
15:05 jmf yep
15:09 jmf paul: what's the purpose of the -d directory option?
15:11 paul jmf : hehe... seems it's is a useless option
15:11 paul (probably coming from some tests I did, don't remember)
15:52 slef can koha-admin release the KohaLa mail, please?
15:59 jmf slef: where's it held up, which list?
15:59 slef
16:02 paul slef: I had problems once with the list, it's just an antispam measure, when you have more than 2 recipients. If a mail is bounced, then just throw it again with just the list as To: !
16:02 slef paul: I don't save all outbound list mail... it gets archived on inbound.
16:03 slef paul: I think you have a copy directly anyway
16:03 slef paul: it would be helpful if the list config was described on
16:03 paul slef : ask someone else, i don't nothing about this ml admin ;-) )
16:05 slef paul: do you know about KohaLa? ;-)  You and Pascale seem to contradict each other and the statutes... very confusing for a poor anglo.
16:34 jmf slef: we'll have to wait for chris cormack to wake up, he manages that one
16:34 jmf slef: but I'll make sure he takes care of it
16:34 slef jmf: aye... shame the clock is ticking... thanks
16:34 slef jmf: any thoughts on KohaLa, by the way?  It doesn't look like a user group to me :-/
16:35 jmf my understanding was that it was a user group
16:35 jmf if it's attempting to be more than that, I think weneed to discuss its role
16:37 slef take a look at the object in
16:37 slef it's pretty broadly-scoped
16:38 slef and I think paul is running for its council (developer, not user)
16:38 slef I'll translate the candidate news in a mo, to see who else is there
16:46 jmf slef: is your main objection the 'bylaws' of KohaLa?
16:46 jmf are you requesting that they change them?
16:46 slef I think US would call them bylaws.
16:47 slef Essentially, I think so.
16:47 paul bylaws ???
16:47 jmf have you suggested a change in language?
16:47 jmf paul: 'bylaws' in american:
16:47 jmf Statuts de l’Association Kohala
16:47 jmf Rules of the Kohala Association
16:47 jmf the list of articles
16:48 slef not yet... French (code) law is rather different... I'm trying to get help.  It would be very helpful to know where the current draft came from.
16:48 slef (which is a question in the mail held for moderation...)
16:48 paul slef : it comes from Francine Masson, director of ENSMP library, a woman that has founded a lot of associations during it's life
16:48 jmf MJ's translation of the Preamble is:
16:48 jmf The craft software under free licences are fairly few, and ask for a close participation between
16:48 jmf developers and users to keep working, and true to principles of sharing and distributing free
16:48 jmf software.  That's why some users and developers who work with and on the library software
16:48 jmf Koha have decided to form an association.
16:48 jmf which I
16:48 jmf agree, doesn't sound like auser's group
16:49 jmf but it doesn't exactly sound ominous either :-)
16:49 paul but Koha is not a common experience. We don't want to have "devs on the left, users on the right"...
16:49 jmf Article 2: This association has for an object the development, the documentation, the protection, the
16:49 slef paul: US seems to call statuts bylaws, which is funny to the English,
16:49 slef because bylaws here are passed by towns and villages, about things
16:49 slef like dogs messing the paths and keeping your hedges cut.
16:49 jmf promotion and the distribution of the free software library system Koha.
16:49 jmf hehe
16:50 slef paul: but then we often call statuts things like memorandum and articles and other archaic names, so I don't laugh at them every time ;-)
16:51 slef jmf: I think I've misunderstood one problem, about unnominated powers, so there has been some point to the bilingual multi-email discussion ;-)
16:52 slef jmf: one problem I have is that 1901-law associations which I like seem not to publish their statuts, so I can't suggest them quickly.
16:53 slef erm, bye then ;-)
16:53 kados nope
16:53 kados I'm here
16:53 kados just back at my regular terminal :-)
16:53 slef stop moving around ;-)
16:53 kados hehe
16:54 slef paul: is Francine standing for CA?
16:54 paul nope, she will leave in november (6x years old)
16:54 slef erm, yes, she is, but no personal statement in the news
16:54 slef (sorry, I just checked my mailboxes)
16:57 slef paul: how to translate "commercial dans l'édition"?
16:57 paul mmm... I need a more complex sentence to help
16:57 slef J'ai principalement travaillé dans le livre et sa diffusion
16:57 slef successivement comme libraire, commercial dans l'édition,
16:57 slef bibliothécaire (BU et BM).
16:58 paul vendor for an editor
16:58 slef aha
16:58 slef thanks
16:59 paul time to leave for me
18:39 owen I'm still not completely clear on the branches concept in git. Say I've got a bunch of changes that I'm not ready to commit, but I have one file I want to correct and submit a patch for. I can git checkout -b quickfix origin to create a new branch, make my change, commit, submit patch and then switch to my other branch to keep working, right?
18:39 slef I think so.
18:41 slef An alternative is to make a local symlink clone of your tree (git clone -l -s /path/to/tree) and do the one-file correction in that.
18:41 owen that sounds like a non-gittish way to do it
18:42 slef well, I think the gittish way would be to commit the unready patches up a branch, switch branches, do the one-file correction and send it off, switch back, then uncommit the unready patch or finish it and merge the patches
18:43 slef but I seem to botch patch merging, so ;-)
18:44 owen Hmm... Would you have to merge the patches? what if you just kept working on the unfinished work and waited for your other patch to make it into the official repo?
18:45 slef I meant merge the unready commit and the one that finishes it.
18:46 kados when wouldn't you be ready to commit something?
18:46 slef kados: when it doesn't pass perl -c?
18:47 owen kados, if you're referring to my original question, what I should have said was, a bunch of changes I'm not ready so submit a patch for
18:48 kados as long as you've commited them to your local repo
18:48 kados you can switch branches and make another change
18:48 kados and send-email on that patch
18:48 kados then switch back to the original one
18:49 kados and continue working
18:49 owen Okay, that's what I was thinking. Bascially, I want to send an "out of sequence" patch. Or maybe that's just how I think of it.
18:50 kados yea, don't worry about sequencing
18:50 kados remember, git will go back in time when merging stuff :-)
18:50 kados if it needs to
18:51 owen If git had gone back in time I would remember a git from the future visiting me.
18:51 kados hehe
18:51 slef owen: no, because you would have broken it tomorrow.
19:02 kados hi paul
19:02 paul hi back
19:02 paul pub date sorting still not working for me :-(
19:03 paul i'll send a mail to the welcome the 2 new "liblimers" (that have submitted a bug if I don't mind)
19:03 kados bug and patches too!
19:03 kados which you will see when chris wakes up and pushes them :-)
19:05 paul why joshua has jmf as mailbox name while joe atzberger has joe.atzberger ?
19:05 kados we changed contentions
19:05 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: atzberger
19:05 kados conventions I mean
19:06 slef freedom... each to their own!
19:06 kados jmf is my initials
19:06 kados joshua mark ferraro
19:06 slef ttllp includes initials, isurname and firstnames forms
19:07 slef moral of the tale: don't try guessing email addresses.  That can get embarrasing ;-)
19:07 kados hehe
19:07 slef at university, I had M.Ray, M.J.Ray, mjr and h089, among others
19:08 slef the uni systems simply didn't do multiple roles, so they just made a new account for each job you had
19:08 kados heh
19:08 kados slef: btw: nice job on the zebra commits
19:09 slef kados: do they work yet? ;-)
19:09 kados slef: no :-)
19:09 kados but we're getting there :-)
19:09 kados one question
19:09 slef Not a surprise.  I'm still a bit confused (see mails to koha-devel)
19:09 kados right now, we have a global option for marc 'flavour'
19:09 kados MARC21 and UNIMARC being the two main options
19:10 kados but in koha 3.x we may see that become a framework-level option
19:10 kados so there are a few places I'm not sure how we should represent the differences for those
19:10 kados like the installer
19:11 slef ok, framework-level means in-database?
19:11 kados I'm not sure we can easily configure zebra to index both unimarc and marc21, but we might be able to
19:11 kados framework-level would potentially mean at the level of the MARC framework
19:13 kados I need to do more research on zebra
19:13 kados to figure out how ewe could get marc21 and unimarc playing nicely together
19:14 kados paul: so I guess you've seen all the bug reports
19:14 kados :-)
19:14 paul yep...
19:14 kados I'm very concerned about doing anything resembling a public release with the current state of things
19:15 paul do you think you have more to come, or is that all ?
19:15 kados i think more to come unfortunately
19:20 paul which framework settings should I choose ?
19:28 kados re: bug 1466
19:29 kados I just installed 3 marc21 systems this mornign with no probs
19:29 kados so you must not have the latest kohastructure.sql
19:29 kados or bib frameworks
19:29 paul mmm... git fetch a few hours ago. something in the queue ?
19:29 kados don't think so
19:34 kados did you fetch and rebase?
19:38 paul ok, my fault. I was on BibLibre, not on Official branch. it's invalid
19:38 slef kados: do you have a script log or similar of it?  ;-)
19:39 slef (of the installed systems)
19:39 kados slef: yea, you already have it :-)
19:40 kados slef: no, I mean the package I sent you
19:40 slef ok, so mainly the var/usr/etc problems and edits that I know about ;-)
19:41 kados well, we didn't use the new package to install
19:41 kados we used my old symlinked one
19:41 kados (we have several installs on one box
19:41 kados for development)
19:42 kados (and it's much easier to test on a symlinked install)
19:42 slef the new package can do several installs on one box and it would help development more if more than the two active koha devels at ttllp were using it
19:42 kados yep
19:42 kados but it doesn't use a symlinked install
19:43 slef symlinked to the git tree?
19:43 kados yep
19:43 slef wouldn't be hard to do that actually
19:46 kados man, we really need to clean up these syspref names
20:00 paul #1430 fixed....
20:05 kados paul++ #awaiting patch from chris
20:06 kados in the staff client
20:06 kados something strange with js going on
20:06 kados it loads late or something
20:07 kados paul: have you seen the 'bulk edit' feature in the catalog search?
20:07 paul it's something added by hdl
20:07 paul the goal is to update all the biblios from a query
20:08 kados yep, it's a nice feature
20:08 kados but a dangerous one also
20:08 kados and a bit buggy if you don't mind :-)
20:09 kados paul: where does it pull the list of valid codes? from the default template?
20:09 kados for us it's a ton of extra html for every search result
20:09 kados I think it must be moved to a separate function
20:09 kados not the main search
20:10 paul kados : I don't know, you'll ask to hdl ;-)
20:10 kados[…]felsefe&op=Submit
20:13 kados and why is EditBiblios in instead of
20:14 paul dunno either !
20:16 kados and it should be named ModBiblios IMO
20:16 kados to follow our convention
20:17 kados paul: I hope you'll understand why I would consider this a blocker :-)
20:17 paul nope (really)
20:17 paul I would just remove the feature of warn in release note that it don't work.
20:17 paul otherwise, all bugs are blo !
20:18 paul but I know we disagree here... I don't try to  convince you.
20:18 paul this feature don't work. for me a blo means "you can't use the software in it's main features"
20:18 paul which is definetly not the case here.
20:19 paul i have the same pov on #1441, that i'm working on atm
20:19 kados well, we could do a release, but I would omit it as a feature
20:19 kados since it's buggy
20:19 kados and doesn't follow our coding guidelines
20:20 kados that said, it's a very nice feature!
20:20 kados and I hope it will be patched so we can include it!
20:24 paul patch for #1441 done
20:25 paul time to go to bed for frenchies
20:25 paul 10:30PM
20:25 kados paul++
20:26 paul wow... champion's league in soccer : Lyon 0-3 Glasgow Rangers... you must know that tomorrow we will have Liverpool vs Marseille & Marseille / Lyon are ennemies in soccer ;-)
20:30 paul 11 patches in mailbox
20:30 paul bye bye everybody
08:23 slef morning all - chris: alive?
08:23 slef idle 11 hours... hmm
08:24 slef paul: it's not a matter of confidence and it's not a matter of culture.  Are you ending the discussion because you don't want to understand the concerns?
08:28 paul hi slef : nope, I want to end the discussion because coding is more important atm, and I'm not sure i'll convince you at all
08:28 chris yep im around
08:29 chris
08:29 slef chris: can you release the post of mine to that's on moderation-hold, please?
08:29 chris yep ill go do that now
08:29 slef thanks 1000... I don't want to rewrite that long mail
08:30 slef although things might have moved on past it a little while it's been on hold
08:31 chris done
08:31 slef paul: you probably won't convince me that giving corporations employees+2 votes  is fair, but other than that, I'm pretty convincable.
08:32 paul it's not "corpo empl", it's "corpo"
08:32 paul (represented by a physical person, of course)
08:39 slef all the corporation owners and employees can have a vote each, then there's two more votes givable to anyone who doesn't already have a vote, right?
08:39 slef chris: thanks (I think)
08:40 paul slef : nope.
08:40 paul the company is a "moral person". It has a juridic existence. So it can vote "itself"
08:40 paul except that it is represented by someone.
08:40 paul so, SAN-OP could have :
08:41 paul - 1 vote for Jerome that is member as "jerome"
08:41 slef brb- have problems
08:41 paul - 1 vote for bruno that is member as "jerome"
08:52 slaf sorry about that... I've lost control of slef's server temporarily
08:56 slaf load average: 23.10, 30.54, 25.42
08:56 slaf Tasks:  95 total,   7 running,  87 sleeping,   0 stopped,   1 zombie
08:56 chris yikes
08:57 chris least it appears to be dropping
08:57 slaf yeah... should get control back soon
08:58 slef load average: 31.03, 30.25, 25.91
08:58 chris or maybe not :)
08:58 slef erm, we were saying?
08:58 slef I have a shell... all is not lost
08:59 chris :)
08:59 slef I think one of the daemons is memory-leaking, but I'm not sure.
09:00 slef Swap:   131064k total,   131040k used
09:00 slef that'll be resource starvation, then
09:01 chris ah yeah, thatd do it
09:02 slef paul: I understand how corporation votes work. I just don't think they're fair.
09:03 slef paul: I also don't understand why KohaLa moved from being a user group to being for development, documentation and so on
09:05 slef load average: 3.95, 16.88, 21.67
09:06 paul slef : i have then answer to the 2nd question : because Koha is a free software ! and I (we) don't want to have on the right the users, and on the left the developpers.
09:06 paul we all are in the same boat !
09:08 slef paul: we are not all in the same boat!  KohaLa is putting on the right the French, on the left the others.
09:10 slef paul: if KohaLa is to be inclusive, then that is good IMO, but it should be done inclusively
09:52 paul chris still around ?
10:01 chris yep
10:01 chris just saw you sent a patch
10:02 chris or so bugzilla says :)
10:02 chris ahh, ive already accepted it, never mind :)
10:08 paul chris : new patch in your mailbox ;-)
10:09 chris hmm dominic on the bench .. i would have started him
10:22 chris ok, bedtime for me
10:22 paul sweet dreams
10:22 chris (daylight savings started here last saturday, so its 1 hour later than last week)
10:23 chris my body still thinks its 10.22 tho, its hard to wake up 1 hour earlier
10:24 paul chris ???
10:24 paul do you see the compo of the french team (announced 2 hours ago)
10:24 paul some surprises, as usual with Bernard laporte !
10:25 chris yes, i saw that, if i was couch, christophe dominic would not be in the reserves, he would be on the field
10:25 chris coach even :)
10:25 paul that would make 16 vs 15, but it may be a good idea ;-)
10:26 chris hehe
10:29 chris now im really going to sleep
10:29 paul seet dreams

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