| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 12:01 |
|
paul |
kados : hi |
| 12:01 |
|
paul |
I'm strongly against a system pref, or we will have zillions of such systemprefs. |
| 12:01 |
|
kados |
right |
| 12:01 |
|
paul |
but I'm for a solution that is clear for everybody |
| 12:01 |
|
kados |
how can we resolve it? :-) |
| 12:01 |
|
paul |
let me see how you've solved it at npl & ccfls |
| 12:02 |
|
paul |
http://catalog.ccfls.org/search?idx=&q=chaos |
| 12:02 |
|
paul |
I see only the branch. |
| 12:03 |
|
paul |
is it ccfls specific or you want it like that for everybody ? |
| 12:03 |
|
kados |
Meadville Public Library (1) |
| 12:03 |
|
kados |
you see that? |
| 12:03 |
|
paul |
yep. |
| 12:03 |
|
paul |
but no location & callnumber |
| 12:03 |
|
kados |
so that means 1 copy at MPL |
| 12:04 |
|
paul |
http://catalogue.iptheologie.f[…]koha/opac-main.pl |
| 12:04 |
|
kados |
yep, location and call number aren't included |
| 12:04 |
|
paul |
search chaos |
| 12:04 |
|
kados |
right |
| 12:04 |
|
kados |
so it's the old tabular approach |
| 12:04 |
|
paul |
in a specialised library like IPT (& most of my customers I think), location & callnumber is a real + for users |
| 12:04 |
|
kados |
yep |
| 12:04 |
|
kados |
some libraries here too |
| 12:04 |
|
kados |
just not the public ones |
| 12:05 |
|
kados |
hmmm |
| 12:05 |
|
kados |
what we need, are profiles |
| 12:05 |
|
kados |
so 'academic' (looks like tumer's), 'public' (looks like NPL), 'special' (loooks like IPT) |
| 12:06 |
|
paul |
or, best of all : an XSLT ;-) |
| 12:06 |
|
kados |
yea! |
| 12:07 |
|
paul |
note that if we discard the table view, we could have something that can be setup as the library want without any new code. |
| 12:07 |
|
paul |
using the itemtype.summary feature. |
| 12:07 |
|
paul |
but I like the academic/public/special idea |
| 12:07 |
|
paul |
and I suspect it could be usefull at some other places |
| 12:07 |
|
kados |
yea |
| 12:08 |
|
kados |
it's difficult to imagine how to do it though |
| 12:08 |
|
kados |
other than separate templates :/ |
| 12:09 |
|
kados |
hmmm |
| 12:09 |
|
kados |
actually |
| 12:09 |
|
kados |
our templates 'override' themselves |
| 12:09 |
|
kados |
so what if we had: |
| 12:10 |
|
kados |
public/en |
| 12:10 |
|
kados |
academic/en |
| 12:10 |
|
kados |
special/en |
| 12:10 |
|
kados |
prog/en |
| 12:10 |
|
paul |
sounds a VERY GOOD IDEA |
| 12:10 |
|
kados |
and only modifs were stored in public/en |
| 12:10 |
|
paul |
and very very easy to implement |
| 12:10 |
|
paul |
1 point to kados. |
| 12:11 |
|
kados |
so now we just need to agree on the default for prog ;-) |
| 12:12 |
|
paul |
I think we should let "prog" as it is, and, at the very end of validation just copy/paste/modify to the 3 specific templates. because if we "fork" the templates today, we will forget to report any bugfix/minor improvements to one of them, 99% sure... |
| 12:14 |
|
kados |
agreed |
| 12:15 |
|
kados |
paul: while you're present, quick question |
| 12:15 |
|
kados |
paul: have you tried running the translation script for rel_2_2 intranet lately? |
| 12:15 |
|
paul |
nope |
| 12:16 |
|
kados |
for me it fails, let me find the error |
| 12:23 |
|
kados |
morning owen |
| 12:23 |
|
owen |
Hi kados |
| 12:23 |
|
kados |
paul: sorry, on this box I have to install Locale::PO, and cpan is slow |
| 12:26 |
|
kados |
paul: I'll paste the error into bugzilla, its large |
| 12:31 |
|
paul |
kados: ok |
| 12:35 |
|
kados |
paul: http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1366 |
| 12:35 |
|
kados |
owen: http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1366 |
| 12:35 |
|
paul |
hehe... |
| 12:36 |
|
paul |
it's the classic <tmpl_if> inside a html tag |
| 12:36 |
|
paul |
<input type="xxx" value="XXX" <!-- tmpl_if name="checked" --> checked<!-- /TMPL_IF -->> |
| 12:36 |
|
paul |
if INVALID |
| 12:36 |
|
kados |
looks the same for default |
| 12:36 |
|
paul |
is INVALID for the parser |
| 12:36 |
|
kados |
ahh |
| 12:37 |
|
kados |
that's too bad |
| 12:37 |
|
paul |
maybe. It's harmless |
| 12:37 |
|
paul |
and i've fixed all of them in head |
| 12:37 |
|
paul |
because <!-- tmpl_if ... --> |
| 12:37 |
|
paul |
<input CHECKED > |
| 12:37 |
|
paul |
<!-- tmpl_else --> |
| 12:37 |
|
paul |
<input > |
| 12:37 |
|
paul |
<!-- /tmpl_if --> |
| 12:37 |
|
paul |
if equivalent and valid |
| 12:38 |
|
paul |
just a little bit more verbose, but maybe easier to read |
| 12:38 |
|
kados |
right |
| 12:40 |
|
kados |
paul: what about the multibyte sequence errors? |
| 12:41 |
|
paul |
probably due to : |
| 12:41 |
|
paul |
Can't determine original templates' charset, defaulting to ISO-8859-1 |
| 12:41 |
|
paul |
default to utf-8 automatically, it should solve the problem |
| 12:41 |
|
paul |
(not sure, but probably) |
| 12:42 |
|
paul |
kados is discovering the pain I have with the french translation in latin1 in koha 2.2 ... |
| 12:43 |
|
kados |
nope |
| 12:43 |
|
kados |
same error if I change to UTF-8 |
| 13:18 |
|
owen |
Man, label-home.tmpl is a real beast |
| 13:38 |
|
kados |
yea, suspected that |
| 13:38 |
|
kados |
bbiab |
| 14:02 |
|
[K] |
*** join #koha FreeNode: dbs n=danpdpc/supporter/active/denials |
| 14:02 |
|
paul |
??? |
| 14:18 |
|
CGI572 |
hhh |
| 14:20 |
|
kados |
hey foxnorth |
| 14:21 |
|
foxnorth |
hey kados-- good to be back :) |
| 14:22 |
|
paul |
hello from france foxnorth |
| 14:28 |
|
foxnorth |
hey paul! |
| 14:28 |
|
toins |
hello foxnorth |
| 14:32 |
|
foxnorth |
hey toins-- |
| 14:32 |
|
foxnorth |
do i remember that you guys had gotten save.pl to work in opencataloger? |
| 14:33 |
|
[K] |
*** part FreeNode!#koha: dbs n=danpdpc/supporter/active/denials |
| 15:28 |
|
kados |
foxnorth: |
| 15:28 |
|
kados |
# for Yaz Toolkit |
| 15:28 |
|
kados |
deb http://ftp.indexdata.dk/debian indexdata/sarge released |
| 15:29 |
|
kados |
deb-src http://ftp.indexdata.dk/debian indexdata/sarge released |
| 15:29 |
|
kados |
add that to /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 15:29 |
|
kados |
then do apt-get update |
| 15:29 |
|
kados |
apt-get install libyaz-dev |
| 15:29 |
|
kados |
apt-get install yaz-doc |
| 15:29 |
|
kados |
apt-get install idzebra |
| 15:30 |
|
kados |
owen: thanks for the updates, I'm testing them now |
| 15:32 |
|
CGI424 |
Hi all, I am looking for schools that are using Koha, is there a list somewhere |
| 15:33 |
|
kados |
hi CGI424 |
| 15:33 |
|
kados |
wiki.koha.org probably has some listed |
| 15:33 |
|
kados |
also, might wanna try Marshall Breeding's ILS site |
| 15:34 |
|
kados |
libwebcats i think it's called |
| 15:34 |
|
CGI424 |
I will try there, I know that Saugus California school district put it in place last year, but I can |
| 15:34 |
|
CGI424 |
can get to that one. |
| 15:34 |
|
kados |
CGI424: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=kohausers |
| 15:34 |
|
jaron |
http://www.librarytechnology.org/libwebcats/ |
| 15:34 |
|
CGI424 |
Thanks I know that site. |
| 15:34 |
|
kados |
CGI424: the libwebcats advanced search lets you pick just Koha as an option |
| 15:34 |
|
kados |
there are a lot more libraries using it that aren't listed |
| 15:35 |
|
CGI424 |
I do like the libwebcats, I forgot about it. |
| 15:35 |
|
kados |
but such is life in a OSS app :-) |
| 15:35 |
|
CGI424 |
I am working on getting the word out. I want a lot more school libraries to look into it. |
| 15:35 |
|
kados |
cool |
| 15:35 |
|
CGI424 |
I have an extra school districct in Alaska that should be online before fall. |
| 15:36 |
|
CGI424 |
I am updating their MARC records over the next two weeks. I love summer vacation. |
| 15:45 |
|
thd |
kados: have you seen my message on koha-devel? |
| 15:46 |
|
kados |
thd: yes, thanks! |
| 15:46 |
|
kados |
thd: I'll read it asap |
| 15:47 |
|
thd |
kados: I compressed 3 days work into a day and a half to write that |
| 15:47 |
|
thd |
kados: you should encourage people to at least read section 5 before the meeting |
| 15:48 |
|
kados |
I'm reading section 5now |
| 15:48 |
|
kados |
now even |
| 15:49 |
|
kados |
this section s interesting: |
| 15:49 |
|
kados |
"The only way to resolve the problems of the category of multiple |
| 15:49 |
|
kados |
authorship for software projects is to have copyright assignments to a |
| 15:49 |
|
kados |
trusted entity with a grant back of rights for authors' own individual |
| 15:49 |
|
kados |
contributions. " |
| 15:50 |
|
kados |
well done thd! |
| 15:50 |
|
kados |
thanks for taking the time to create that doc |
| 15:50 |
|
thd |
kados: I have the FSF contract for how they have done that in the past |
| 15:51 |
|
thd |
kados: I guess you missed the multilingual parts |
| 15:51 |
|
kados |
I glanced at them :-) |
| 15:51 |
|
paul |
thd : wow... what a huge doc... |
| 15:52 |
|
kados |
I think that could be an excellent starting point for a koha.org statement on copyright |
| 15:52 |
|
paul |
what's the goal of this document ? |
| 15:52 |
|
thd |
kados: including the part where under French law you can withdraw from an assignment |
| 15:52 |
|
kados |
paul: it's to add to the discussion abotu how to annotate copyright, and to inform koha developers what the laws are so we can make informed decisions |
| 15:53 |
|
thd |
paul: the hope is to clarify deep confusion over copyright law which I saw earlier in the thread and warn against potential risks in treatment of copyright |
| 15:53 |
|
paul |
the meeting is in 3 hours right ? |
| 15:53 |
|
thd |
yes |
| 15:53 |
|
paul |
it will be hard to have ppl reading it before the meeting i'm afraid ! |
| 15:53 |
|
kados |
paul: 4 hours I think |
| 15:54 |
|
kados |
wait |
| 15:54 |
|
kados |
3 hours and 10 minutes :-) |
| 15:54 |
|
kados |
you're right |
| 15:54 |
|
thd |
paul: if you read only section 5 you will have the most important information |
| 15:55 |
|
thd |
paul: however, then you will miss all the quotations from French law and comparisons with other legal systems |
| 15:55 |
|
kados |
thd: perhaps a email explaining that would be good |
| 15:55 |
|
thd |
kados: that is right at the end of section 1 |
| 15:56 |
|
paul |
I think i'm fine with the french law. but i'll be able to check that i'm not wrong if I need thx to this doc ;-) |
| 15:56 |
|
thd |
kados: I assume people will read enough to get through section 1 |
| 15:56 |
|
kados |
thd: probably not :-) |
| 15:56 |
|
kados |
thd: a summary email might be a good idea |
| 15:56 |
|
thd |
kados: the summary is in section 5 |
| 15:57 |
|
kados |
:-) |
| 15:57 |
|
thd |
kados: section 1 points to section 5 |
| 15:57 |
|
kados |
yep |
| 15:57 |
|
thd |
kados: should I post a new message asking people to read at least section 5 before the meeting? |
| 15:57 |
|
kados |
yea, I'd recommend it |
| 15:58 |
|
thd |
ok |
| 15:58 |
|
kados |
and there's also no mention of the purpose of the document |
| 15:58 |
|
kados |
might be good to state that explicitly |
| 15:58 |
|
kados |
people probably don't remember the agenda for the meeting |
| 15:58 |
|
kados |
actually ... |
| 15:58 |
|
kados |
copyright isn't on the agenda |
| 15:58 |
|
kados |
:-) |
| 15:58 |
|
kados |
http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]tingnotes07july02 |
| 15:59 |
|
kados |
thd: should I add it? |
| 15:59 |
|
thd |
kados: I thought that it was tabled from the last meeting to this one so why not? |
| 16:00 |
|
kados |
i must have forgotten to add it |
| 16:00 |
|
kados |
thd: think we can keep it to 15 minutes? |
| 16:00 |
|
kados |
thd: I assume it's a topic we'll have to discuss more than once? |
| 16:00 |
|
thd |
kados: yes of course |
| 16:01 |
|
owen |
kados: I committed more corrections following your update to bug 1366. |
| 16:04 |
|
kados |
owen: much better |
| 16:26 |
|
owen |
Okay kados, try again |
| 16:30 |
|
kados |
muuch better |
| 16:30 |
|
kados |
oremember.tmpl: line 162: Probably missing whitespace before or missing quotation mark near: checked="checkedxgettext.pl: Warning: authorities.tmpl: line 30: Probably missing whitespace before or missing quotation mark near: detail.pl?authidd=<!-- TMPL_VAR name="duplicateuthid" -->&popup=1", "Duplicate Authority"); return false;" |
| 16:30 |
|
kados |
I think that's the last one |
| 16:30 |
|
kados |
well, two |
| 16:30 |
|
kados |
moremember.tmp and authorities.tmpl |
| 16:40 |
|
kados |
thd: excellent summary! |
| 16:40 |
|
thd |
thanks |
| 16:46 |
|
owen |
Okay kados, try again (crafty devils) |
| 16:48 |
|
kados |
owen: looks good, all errors fixed except for the non-ascii ones I'll have to troubleshoot later |
| 16:48 |
|
kados |
owen: thanks! |
| 16:48 |
|
kados |
owen++ |
| 17:07 |
|
[K] |
*** join #kohaFreeNode: dbs n=danbas4-sudbury98-1279295098.dsl.bell.ca |
| 17:45 |
|
[K] |
*** join #kohaFreeNode: rangi n=chris203-118-134-114.netspace.net.nz |
| 17:51 |
|
kados |
hey chris |
| 17:52 |
|
chris |
heya |
| 17:56 |
|
[K] |
<dbsFreeNode> chris - you can't sleep, or your son isn't sleeping? |
| 17:56 |
|
chris |
well he woke up at 4, then went back to sleep, but i havent been able to |
| 17:57 |
|
[K] |
<dbsFreeNode> ugh |
| 17:57 |
|
chris |
be an afternoon nap for me i think :) |
| 18:52 |
|
russel |
hi everyon |
| 18:52 |
|
chris |
hi russ |
| 18:53 |
|
kados |
hey russel |
| 18:53 |
|
kados |
about 10 minutes out, to the dev meeting I suppose |
| 18:56 |
|
kados |
hi WPL |
| 18:59 |
|
WPL |
hello |
| 18:59 |
|
dewey |
what's up, WPL |
| 18:59 |
|
kados |
hi WPL |
| 18:59 |
|
kados |
WPL: welcome :-) |
| 18:59 |
|
kados |
WPL: you here for the developers' meeting? |
| 18:59 |
|
WPL |
no... just intrested in OSS ILS |
| 18:59 |
|
WPL |
using III right now |
| 19:00 |
|
kados |
ahh, cool |
| 19:00 |
|
paul |
lll ? |
| 19:00 |
|
kados |
hi kolibrie |
| 19:00 |
|
kolibrie |
hi |
| 19:00 |
|
kados |
paul: Innovative Interfaces Inc. |
| 19:00 |
|
WPL |
Millennium |
| 19:00 |
|
paul |
ok. |
| 19:00 |
|
WPL |
$$ |
| 19:00 |
|
kados |
paul: they're one of the major US ILS companies |
| 19:00 |
|
paul |
it's known as millenium in france |
| 19:00 |
|
paul |
yes, I know it. |
| 19:00 |
|
kados |
kolibrie: you here for the developers' meeting? |
| 19:00 |
|
paul |
koha is much better :-D |
| 19:00 |
|
kados |
paul: it's pronounced 'tripple I' here in the US sometimes |
| 19:00 |
|
kolibrie |
kados: just thought I'd listen in |
| 19:01 |
|
WPL |
well.. a couple years ago we would have never considered another ILS but ears are starting to bend now |
| 19:01 |
|
kados |
kolibrie: welcome, where are you coming from? |
| 19:01 |
|
kolibrie |
kados: Fairfax, VA |
| 19:01 |
|
kados |
cool |
| 19:01 |
|
kados |
WPL: how about you? |
| 19:01 |
|
WPL |
Westerville Ohio, USA |
| 19:01 |
|
kados |
oh, hi there :-) |
| 19:02 |
|
kados |
kados == Joshua Ferraro |
| 19:02 |
|
[K] |
*** part FreeNode!#koha: rangi n=chris203-118-134-114.netspace.net.nz |
| 19:02 |
|
WPL |
oh hey Josh.. got your phone call. |
| 19:02 |
|
WPL |
We where planning on calling you when things settle down a bit |
| 19:02 |
|
kados |
cool |
| 19:02 |
|
kados |
were you at ALA? |
| 19:02 |
|
WPL |
ahh.. someone from the library may have been but I don't go to those things... |
| 19:02 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 19:03 |
|
WPL |
I'm the IT guy... to many library people there |
| 19:03 |
|
kados |
*nod* |
| 19:03 |
|
WPL |
jk |
| 19:03 |
|
kados |
for me too :-) |
| 19:03 |
|
kados |
just don't tell the librarians :-) |
| 19:03 |
|
kados |
no, it's atually fun to chat with librarians |
| 19:03 |
|
WPL |
well ALA is more for them... |
| 19:03 |
|
kados |
yea |
| 19:04 |
|
kados |
ok, well it's about that time |
| 19:04 |
|
kados |
so I guess first order of business is roll call |
| 19:04 |
|
kados |
who's here? |
| 19:04 |
|
dewey |
here is an example record that is generating 3 items: http://www.pastebin.ca/406676 |
| 19:04 |
|
kados |
paul: noted, I'll do my best :-) |
| 19:05 |
|
WPL |
I just really wish these OSS ILS programs would take off. I"m so sick of these companies fleecing us for bad products and horrid support |
| 19:05 |
|
paul |
for US guys : i'm from France and it's 9Pm here. and for newbies : i've one baby that is 4 months old and sometime has small nights... |
| 19:05 |
|
kados |
heh |
| 19:05 |
|
kados |
kolibrie: wow, stick around :-) |
| 19:05 |
|
kados |
kolibrie: we'll put you to work :-) |
| 19:06 |
|
kados |
ok, and I know chris and russ are around |
| 19:06 |
|
kados |
that's a quorum |
| 19:06 |
|
kolibrie |
kados: I'm trying to just listen, remember? |
| 19:06 |
|
WPL |
I should see if I can get my buddy Aaron involved. He used to work with my at the library and hates III and how much these guys charge. He's a big Ruby programmer and loves OSS |
| 19:06 |
|
paul |
hdl won't come with us : he's afk, teaching Koha todays and tomorrow |
| 19:06 |
|
kados |
we'll skip introductions, other than to say welcome to WPL (is it Bart?) and kolibrie |
| 19:06 |
|
kados |
kolibrie: hehe, noted |
| 19:07 |
|
kados |
cool |
| 19:07 |
|
kados |
WPL: that'd be great |
| 19:07 |
|
kados |
ok, here's our agenda: |
| 19:07 |
|
kados |
http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]tingnotes07july02 |
| 19:07 |
|
WPL |
are you having a dev conf right now |
| 19:07 |
|
kados |
anyone have oper privs can +o me? |
| 19:07 |
|
kados |
WPL: yea |
| 19:07 |
|
WPL |
I'll msg him ans see if he's free |
| 19:07 |
|
kados |
so first order of business is Open Positions in the Community - 15 minutes |
| 19:08 |
|
kados |
we've been without an active Kaitiaki for a while |
| 19:08 |
|
kados |
same goes with Documentation Manager |
| 19:08 |
|
kados |
we lost our QA Manager |
| 19:08 |
|
kados |
and two new positions are clearly necessary at this stage: Translations Manager and FAQ Manager |
| 19:08 |
|
kados |
welcome pecisk |
| 19:08 |
|
paul |
and our 2.2 Release Maintainer is asking himself if he should not resign from this position... |
| 19:08 |
|
kados |
agenda: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]tingnotes07july02 (we're on Open Positions in the Community) |
| 19:08 |
|
kados |
paul: :-) |
| 19:08 |
|
paul |
(I'm the 2.2 RM) |
| 19:09 |
|
paul |
what 1st ? |
| 19:09 |
|
kados |
I'll start with least :-) |
| 19:09 |
|
kados |
FAQ Manager |
| 19:09 |
|
kados |
basically, I'm bringing it up to raise awareness |
| 19:10 |
|
kados |
if anyone knows of anyone interested in combing through our lists and adding FAQ to the website |
| 19:10 |
|
kados |
we can set them up with creds to do that |
| 19:10 |
|
kados |
welcome Irma |
| 19:10 |
|
paul |
hi Irma (our french => english translator ?) |
| 19:10 |
|
kados |
Irma: (we're working off of this agenda: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]ingnotes07july02) |
| 19:10 |
|
kados |
Irma: we're on point #2 Open Positions in the COmmunity) |
| 19:10 |
|
Irma |
Bonjour and good morning |
| 19:11 |
|
kados |
so Translations Manager I've been serving as |
| 19:11 |
|
kados |
but doing a bad job of it as I haven't had much time |
| 19:11 |
|
kados |
but I can continue to do a bad job until someone says they want to take it on |
| 19:11 |
|
kados |
:-) |
| 19:11 |
|
russel |
do we have role descriptions? |
| 19:11 |
|
kados |
I think the important ones, that we might actually have people for atm are Documentation Manager and QA Manager |
| 19:11 |
|
kados |
russel: don't think so, no |
| 19:11 |
|
paul |
don't you need an admin access to translations.koha.org to add new translations ? |
| 19:12 |
|
kados |
paul: yes, but I can grant it to anyone who wants the job |
| 19:12 |
|
kados |
paul: but I feel strongly it should be one person |
| 19:12 |
|
kados |
paul: because otherwise there could be conflicts and inconcistancies due to limitations in kartouche |
| 19:12 |
|
paul |
ah, ok. I remember I had to send you some updates/improvements I did on kartouche... |
| 19:12 |
|
thd |
I have a plan to update my Koha FAQ for a manageable system in Zope but have not had time to work on Koha specifically lately |
| 19:12 |
|
paul |
do you have a tool to do kartouche => koha CVS moves ? |
| 19:13 |
|
kados |
paul: not a complete one |
| 19:13 |
|
kados |
paul: do you? |
| 19:13 |
|
paul |
because I did it for french and it was manual |
| 19:13 |
|
kados |
yea, I do it manually |
| 19:13 |
|
paul |
nope, sorry... |
| 19:13 |
|
kados |
but with so many languages now it's hard :-) |
| 19:13 |
|
kados |
I don't mind continnuing, I like languages, but I will just be slow at it :-) |
| 19:13 |
|
chris |
i guess stepping back we have to decide on what the process is for selecting people |
| 19:13 |
|
kados |
chris: good point |
| 19:14 |
|
kados |
hi tumer , welcome |
| 19:14 |
|
paul |
I know, I already faced the problem with 1 language, so I understand what it can be for x0 ... |
| 19:14 |
|
tumer |
hi all |
| 19:14 |
|
paul |
hi tumer |
| 19:14 |
|
tumer |
hi paul |
| 19:14 |
|
thd |
kados: why does more languages increase the difficulty? |
| 19:14 |
|
kados |
for selecting people, my feeling is that if someone is willing to devote the time it will take to fill the role, they should have their turn |
| 19:14 |
|
paul |
thd : because you have to validate translations, export them manually, re-run the translation tool, then test the result |
| 19:15 |
|
kados |
thd: what paul said :-) |
| 19:15 |
|
paul |
which is a -believe me- long and boring process... |
| 19:15 |
|
chris |
i think thats of for some of the roles (translation manager, faq manager etc) |
| 19:15 |
|
kados |
(very boring) :-) |
| 19:15 |
|
chris |
but i think for the kaitiaki might need a bit of process/formality ? |
| 19:15 |
|
paul |
so QA and doc manager ? |
| 19:16 |
|
chris |
im willing to take a crack at QA |
| 19:16 |
|
paul |
take a crack at QA ??? |
| 19:16 |
|
chris |
if no one else wants to :_ |
| 19:16 |
|
russel |
have a go |
| 19:16 |
|
russel |
kiwi slang :-) |
| 19:16 |
|
ryan |
chris++ |
| 19:17 |
|
chris |
hehe |
| 19:17 |
|
paul |
(was a joke, I fully agree, of course ;-) ) |
| 19:17 |
|
paul |
s/RM/QA/ |
| 19:17 |
|
chris |
yes i may go insane, but its a risk im willing to take :-) |
| 19:19 |
|
russel |
sounds like QA is sorted then? |
| 19:20 |
|
kados |
sounds good |
| 19:20 |
|
jaron |
Is this the only FAQ right now and are you looking for more technical matters like installation to be answered there? http://www.koha.org/about-koha/faq.html |
| 19:20 |
|
chris |
yes to both |
| 19:20 |
|
kados |
jaron: interested in being our FAQ Manager? |
| 19:20 |
|
russel |
i guess it would be the job of the FAQ manager to poll the community and see what is required |
| 19:21 |
|
russel |
there is alot of good stuff in the mailing list archives that could go into FAQ |
| 19:21 |
|
chris |
yay |
| 19:21 |
|
paul |
russel: ++ |
| 19:21 |
|
jaron |
let me step back and think about it. I can't contribute code right now, but might be able to do FAQ work. |
| 19:22 |
|
kados |
jaron: sounds good |
| 19:22 |
|
kados |
jaron: maybe you can let us know next dev meeting? |
| 19:22 |
|
jaron |
kados: will do. |
| 19:23 |
|
paul |
do we have any tool that could help us feeding the FAQ ? |
| 19:23 |
|
russel |
i think the move to plone for the website will help there |
| 19:23 |
|
paul |
something quick & easy to use I mean |
| 19:23 |
|
thd |
paul I have a scheme for one in Zope |
| 19:23 |
|
russel |
must be an FAQ manager for plone |
| 19:23 |
|
russel |
sorry there must be... |
| 19:24 |
|
russel |
ahh there is as part of the help center product we have been playing with |
| 19:24 |
|
russel |
http://new.koha.org:8080/koha/documentation |
| 19:25 |
|
thd |
russel: I have python scripts for managing FAQs in Zope |
| 19:28 |
|
russel |
ok so i am putting my hand up for doc manager (or at least assisting with documentation) |
| 19:28 |
|
thd |
paul: all pages should be in every language which would be easier to manage with something like Plone which has built in internationalisation support |
| 19:28 |
|
kados |
plone's translation framework is pretty nice |
| 19:29 |
|
kados |
paul: you'd be able to translate easily every page on koha.org |
| 19:29 |
|
chris |
ok so summary |
| 19:29 |
|
chris |
qa -> chris, translation -> kados 9 (for now), faq -> jaron maybe, docs -> russ |
| 19:29 |
|
kados |
yep, sounds right to me |
| 19:29 |
|
paul |
I'm speaking of plone internal strings here. For example, i've 3accueil as 1st item on the left, then members and all other links are in english ;-) ) |
| 19:29 |
|
chris |
ignore the 9 :) |
| 19:30 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 19:30 |
|
kados |
kados == 9 |
| 19:30 |
|
kados |
:-) |
| 19:30 |
|
paul |
sounds right too. except if we continue we will have a 90% liblime team... |
| 19:30 |
|
kados |
paul: yea, they need translations |
| 19:30 |
|
owen |
If we had 9 kadoses, we'd get a lot more done |
| 19:30 |
|
chris |
for the big one kaitiaki |
| 19:30 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 19:30 |
|
paul |
owen: ++++ |
| 19:30 |
|
kados |
9_kadoses++ |
| 19:30 |
|
chris |
i think we need to find people who are interested |
| 19:31 |
|
kados |
one thing I'd like to do is draw in more users |
| 19:31 |
|
russel |
maybe cast the net a bit wider to the main list |
| 19:31 |
|
kados |
yea |
| 19:31 |
|
russel |
do up a role description for the website |
| 19:31 |
|
Irma |
I will start with the release note translations for Koha 3.0 if you like. |
| 19:31 |
|
russel |
and ask for nominations |
| 19:31 |
|
chris |
ideally the kaitiaki would not be one of the developers |
| 19:31 |
|
kados |
Irma: that'd be very helpful |
| 19:31 |
|
Irma |
OK |
| 19:32 |
|
chris |
and outside liblime would be good too, as paul points out we are in a lot of the positions already |
| 19:32 |
|
kados |
chris: right |
| 19:32 |
|
thd |
chris: yet none of the developers have time do they? |
| 19:32 |
|
chris |
nope |
| 19:32 |
|
russel |
and we can't twist pate's arm again ;-) |
| 19:32 |
|
kados |
I'd love to have more people outside liblime get active, we just need to find some more people somewhere :-) |
| 19:33 |
|
kados |
paul: maybe hdl/toins would like a bigger project role? |
| 19:33 |
|
paul |
I already said that I'm a developper, and not native english speaker, so i'm not the person we're looking for... |
| 19:33 |
|
paul |
maybe for hdl, but not the kaitiaki one i think |
| 19:33 |
|
paul |
(for the same reason as me) |
| 19:33 |
|
russel |
can we convince hdl to take over the 2.2 maintainers role? |
| 19:34 |
|
russel |
(just a suggestion) |
| 19:34 |
|
paul |
toins will leave for 8 months to : get married and finish it's school |
| 19:34 |
|
kados |
Kaitiaki is a big role to fill, it'd be good if we could find a librarian who was invested in the project, and who had lots of time to stay involved |
| 19:34 |
|
kados |
russel: as part of the descriptions, maybe we could talk about a time committment (both in terms of hours/week and a 'term' expectation, like maybe 1 year or something?) |
| 19:34 |
|
paul |
russel: If I'm wondering wether i should not resign, it's because we plan to migrate all my customers to koha 3 in the next months. |
| 19:35 |
|
russel |
ah righto - fair enough then |
| 19:35 |
|
paul |
so, we won't have any interest in 2.2 and I think I will bo a poor job |
| 19:35 |
|
thd |
kados: you need someone who is fully committed for that role and not merely has time |
| 19:35 |
|
kados |
thd: good points |
| 19:35 |
|
paul |
but if you want me to continue I can. |
| 19:35 |
|
[K] |
<dbsFreeNode> Have you put out a call for kaitiaki, explaining the role and the commitment? |
| 19:35 |
|
kados |
dbs: no, don't think we have |
| 19:35 |
|
paul |
[K]: ++ |
| 19:35 |
|
kados |
dbs: good idea |
| 19:35 |
|
paul |
I don't think either |
| 19:35 |
|
kados |
not for a while anyway |
| 19:36 |
|
[K] |
<dbsFreeNode> Not guaranteeing it will get you anyone, but it might help... |
| 19:36 |
|
russel |
so the only public descripton for kaitiaki is - http://www.koha.org/about-koha/faq.html#faq19 |
| 19:36 |
|
kados |
I think that we do have one officially, but just not an active one :-) |
| 19:36 |
|
kados |
same with documentation manager |
| 19:36 |
|
russel |
i think rach wrote that a while back faq a while back |
| 19:36 |
|
kados |
ahh, good one russel |
| 19:37 |
|
kados |
ok, so we can move on |
| 19:37 |
|
kados |
I think |
| 19:37 |
|
kados |
chris, you wanna talk about git? |
| 19:37 |
|
chris |
i think no :) |
| 19:37 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 19:37 |
|
kados |
maybe just a status update |
| 19:37 |
|
chris |
i think we need to finish our page |
| 19:37 |
|
kados |
yea |
| 19:38 |
|
chris |
given all the discussion we have had recently |
| 19:38 |
|
thd |
page? |
| 19:38 |
|
kados |
'give us another two weeks to figure it out' :-) |
| 19:38 |
|
chris |
we now have a clear idea of how it might work, so lets write it up, and get some more feedback |
| 19:38 |
|
kados |
sounds good |
| 19:38 |
|
kados |
ok, so 3.0 beta release |
| 19:38 |
|
kados |
I'd really really really like to get this out in July |
| 19:38 |
|
chris |
i think its a pretty sweet plan, and we can post the link to the devel list when its ready for comment |
| 19:38 |
|
paul |
just a question about git : do we plan a "big bang" (ie : at date X, nobody uses CVS anymore) or a smooth move (a tool report CVS => git and git => cvs) ? |
| 19:39 |
|
kados |
paul: good question |
| 19:39 |
|
kados |
chris: have any thoughts? |
| 19:39 |
|
chris |
i think a big bang |
| 19:39 |
|
paul |
I think I prefer a big bang too |
| 19:39 |
|
kados |
probably less overhead that way |
| 19:40 |
|
paul |
yep. and once it's done, it's done. |
| 19:40 |
|
chris |
yup |
| 19:40 |
|
kados |
ok, so beta of 3.0? |
| 19:40 |
|
paul |
just need to find time to learn git all at the same time. but with the wiki page that will be easy ;-) |
| 19:40 |
|
paul |
ok for koha 3.0 beta |
| 19:40 |
|
thd |
what would be done with Savannah at that point? |
| 19:40 |
|
kados |
paul: do you have anything that is a show stopper for you currently? |
| 19:40 |
|
tumer |
chris:are you keeping the folder structure same or like installed? |
| 19:40 |
|
paul |
in koha 3.0 ? |
| 19:40 |
|
kados |
I think slef worked on the installer a bit |
| 19:40 |
|
kados |
paul: yes |
| 19:41 |
|
paul |
yes : the installer ! |
| 19:41 |
|
kados |
installer is still weak I think |
| 19:41 |
|
kados |
the web one isn't bad |
| 19:41 |
|
kados |
it's the initial system install that's the weak spot I think |
| 19:41 |
|
chris |
tumer: git allows us to move files around without losing history |
| 19:41 |
|
paul |
the librarian part (web) is working, although it has to be filled a little bit more |
| 19:41 |
|
kados |
paul: agreed |
| 19:41 |
|
chris |
tumer: so we can tidy it up to be more like installed |
| 19:41 |
|
paul |
but the tech part don't exist at all ! |
| 19:41 |
|
chris |
if we want |
| 19:41 |
|
tumer |
chris>:thanks |
| 19:41 |
|
kados |
paul: right |
| 19:41 |
|
kados |
my personal pet peeve is the interface design |
| 19:42 |
|
paul |
pet peeve : another word I don't understand |
| 19:42 |
|
kados |
I went to the book store over the weekend and got a bunch of interface design books |
| 19:42 |
|
paul |
(even if I know what you're meaning I think !) |
| 19:42 |
|
kados |
and I've been working with our graphics designer to put together some mockups |
| 19:42 |
|
kados |
paul: it's a slang that means 'thing that bothers me' |
| 19:43 |
|
paul |
exactly what I suspected ;-) |
| 19:43 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 19:43 |
|
thd |
kados: are your concerns functional or more aesthetic? |
| 19:43 |
|
kados |
thd: both |
| 19:43 |
|
kados |
function and form |
| 19:43 |
|
chris |
i think for the developers release .. we need the installer |
| 19:43 |
|
paul |
opac and/or librarian interface ? |
| 19:43 |
|
kados |
I can talk more about that at the next meeting when i have my thoughts better organized |
| 19:44 |
|
kados |
paul: both :-) |
| 19:44 |
|
paul |
one more than the other ? |
| 19:44 |
|
kados |
paul: both :-) |
| 19:44 |
|
thd |
kados: what functional concerns do you have for the intranet aside from preferences organisation? |
| 19:44 |
|
chris |
then next round interface |
| 19:44 |
|
kados |
thd: I'll have to defer my comments until my thoughts are better organized, maybe next dev meeting |
| 19:44 |
|
kados |
chris: that makes sense |
| 19:45 |
|
kados |
chris: so maybe we could do the beta without interfaces |
| 19:45 |
|
chris |
i wouldnt call it beta |
| 19:45 |
|
kados |
s/interfaces/interface redesign/ |
| 19:45 |
|
chris |
id call it developers release |
| 19:45 |
|
kados |
ahh |
| 19:45 |
|
chris |
the first beta could be with the interface redesign |
| 19:45 |
|
paul |
what kind of redesign do you want kados ? |
| 19:45 |
|
kados |
last time I proposed a three phase release cycle |
| 19:45 |
|
chris |
if you call it beta |
| 19:45 |
|
chris |
ppl will try and use it |
| 19:45 |
|
kados |
alpha, beta, stable |
| 19:45 |
|
kados |
chris: true |
| 19:46 |
|
paul |
mostly css & menu, or more deeply changes ? |
| 19:46 |
|
paul |
s/deeply/deep/ |
| 19:46 |
|
kados |
paul: I think mostly css and menu |
| 19:46 |
|
kados |
paul: some layout changes |
| 19:46 |
|
kados |
I want to put together a design guidebook for developers |
| 19:46 |
|
kados |
to make it easy to develop according to our 'standard' |
| 19:47 |
|
kados |
I'll speak more on this soon |
| 19:47 |
|
thd |
kados: we have one of those do we not? |
| 19:47 |
|
kados |
I think chris is right that the installer should take precidence |
| 19:47 |
|
kados |
and slef's not here to defend himself |
| 19:47 |
|
paul |
kados : what timeline would we have for this stuff ? |
| 19:47 |
|
kados |
but I'm meeting with him later today, so I can ask what his timeline is |
| 19:47 |
|
kados |
paul: i'd like to release something this month |
| 19:48 |
|
paul |
just 1 information : |
| 19:48 |
|
kados |
then, two months of testing and another release in sept |
| 19:48 |
|
paul |
i'll be on holiday from jul, 8 to jul,28 |
| 19:48 |
|
kados |
wow |
| 19:48 |
|
kados |
important information :-) |
| 19:49 |
|
paul |
and hdl from jul 22 to aug 5 |
| 19:49 |
|
kados |
one thing is, if we switch to time-based releases (as I proposed last meeting) |
| 19:49 |
|
kados |
we should try to avoid doing a stable release anywhere near christmas |
| 19:49 |
|
kados |
because people don't have time then :-) |
| 19:49 |
|
kados |
so I figure we do alpha release near christmas time, beta in the summer, and stable in fall, maybe |
| 19:49 |
|
Irma |
I wonder if Pascale Nalon (re help with translations) will also take holidays in July |
| 19:50 |
|
Irma |
will find out. No worries. |
| 19:50 |
|
kados |
paul: so do you want to try to do a release before jul 8? |
| 19:50 |
|
kados |
paul: s/you want/you want us to try / |
| 19:51 |
|
paul |
in France : ppl don't have time in May because 1st, 8th, ascension, pentecote are closed days. july august is off too because of holidays, september is wrong because of school new year, christmas is wrong because it's christmas. |
| 19:51 |
|
kados |
6 days :-) |
| 19:51 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 19:51 |
|
paul |
no I didn't expect that. |
| 19:51 |
|
paul |
hdl will be here 3 more weeks. |
| 19:51 |
|
paul |
and you don't need me to release something ! |
| 19:51 |
|
kados |
ok |
| 19:52 |
|
kados |
so lets try to release something before hdl goes on vacation |
| 19:52 |
|
paul |
(as I don't need your release to already have 2 -3 at the end of the week- libraries running CVS-3.0 ! |
| 19:52 |
|
kados |
I'll see if we can get slef to commit to writing the installer |
| 19:52 |
|
paul |
) |
| 19:52 |
|
kados |
paul: *nod* |
| 19:52 |
|
kados |
any other things we absolutely need before we do a developers/beta release? |
| 19:52 |
|
paul |
I think it can really be easy, as it just have to rely on the tech part. |
| 19:52 |
|
paul |
much more easy than the previous installer ! |
| 19:53 |
|
kados |
definitely! |
| 19:53 |
|
kados |
I think there was talk about improvements to the marc editor by toins? |
| 19:53 |
|
kados |
paul: is that being worked on? |
| 19:53 |
|
kados |
how will that work affect the release |
| 19:54 |
|
kados |
IIRC, currently the MARC editor isnt' working in HEAD |
| 19:54 |
|
ryan |
paul: did you suggest that things are recently broken in HEAD ? |
| 19:54 |
|
paul |
we should commit the stuff in the next 2 days. |
| 19:54 |
|
ryan |
or did i misread you? |
| 19:54 |
|
paul |
works pretty well alreday |
| 19:54 |
|
paul |
just investigating that it works with hide_marc=ON, adv_editor=ON and other specific systemprefs |
| 19:54 |
|
kados |
cool |
| 19:55 |
|
paul |
kados : IPT is using the CVS version atm, and did not report any problem |
| 19:55 |
|
paul |
(mmm... I mean all the problems she reported have been solved now ;-) ) |
| 19:55 |
|
thd |
paul: IPT? |
| 19:55 |
|
dewey |
IPT is probably using the CVS version atm, and did not report any problem |
| 19:55 |
|
kados |
I may be missinformed, I heard it from someone else |
| 19:55 |
|
paul |
Institut Protestant de Théologie |
| 19:55 |
|
paul |
(1st library using koha 3.0 in France. Heavy cataloguing...) |
| 19:56 |
|
thd |
paul: so you are fixing the speed problems? |
| 19:56 |
|
tnb |
paul: is SAN-OP live on the internet now? |
| 19:56 |
|
paul |
mmm... partially : the new html is much small, so it should be faster. |
| 19:56 |
|
tnb |
do they have a url? |
| 19:57 |
|
kados |
paul: good news |
| 19:57 |
|
dewey |
good news is, like, that search?q=callnum works now. :) |
| 19:57 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 19:57 |
|
paul |
tnd : nope. should be in september (they have some funding problems) |
| 19:57 |
|
tnb |
ok, just trying to keep up-to-date :) |
| 19:58 |
|
kados |
ok, the last thing we probably ahve time for |
| 19:58 |
|
kados |
minus paul |
| 19:58 |
|
kados |
is the copyright stuff |
| 19:58 |
|
kados |
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/h[…]-07/msg00001.html |
| 19:59 |
|
kados |
thanks to thd for taking time to put that together |
| 19:59 |
|
kados |
section 5 is the summary section |
| 19:59 |
|
kados |
I'm not sure we need to make any decisions today, just mainly awareness raising |
| 19:59 |
|
kados |
and it'd be good to get a thread going about this again |
| 19:59 |
|
kados |
with the new information |
| 19:59 |
|
thd |
paul: did you see what I wrote to Frédéric about keyboard navigation in the record editor? |
| 19:59 |
|
kados |
if no-one starts one in the next couple days I'll do it |
| 20:00 |
|
kados |
I think everything else on the agenda will have to wait until next meeting |
| 20:00 |
|
kados |
speaking of which |
| 20:00 |
|
kados |
everyone have two weeks from now available, same time, same place (not Paul I think) |
| 20:00 |
|
paul |
thd : nope. on koha-devel ? |
| 20:00 |
|
paul |
about GPL v3 : does someone think we should investigate moving to GPL 3 ? |
| 20:01 |
|
kados |
I'd like to see how it sticks first |
| 20:01 |
|
thd |
paul: no I sent it too him privately in response to his question to me about what was the best web based MARC record editor |
| 20:01 |
|
paul |
thd : I was cc: ? |
| 20:02 |
|
thd |
paul: No, I will forward that section to you |
| 20:02 |
|
paul |
thd : ok |
| 20:02 |
|
kados |
anyone have anything further to discuss? |
| 20:02 |
|
thd |
yes |
| 20:03 |
|
kados |
thd: drat, we almost made our goal of 1 hour :-) |
| 20:03 |
|
thd |
kados: we should look into the Koha dependencies to see if there is anything which is GPL 2 only |
| 20:03 |
|
kados |
thd: saw that note in your email |
| 20:04 |
|
kados |
thd: you wanna take that task on? |
| 20:04 |
|
tumer |
2 good news |
| 20:05 |
|
kados |
thd: that should be documented in the new installer when it's written |
| 20:05 |
|
tumer |
1 Millenium rep is upset about kados's performace at ALA |
| 20:05 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 20:05 |
|
russel |
lol |
| 20:05 |
|
kados |
tumer: my performance? |
| 20:05 |
|
paul |
hehe... |
| 20:05 |
|
tumer |
2 koha vs Millenium is 1 nil at parliament |
| 20:05 |
|
tumer |
its installed |
| 20:05 |
|
paul |
we have 9 kados, so it's not a surprise ... |
| 20:05 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 20:05 |
|
chris |
wooo hoo great news tumer |
| 20:05 |
|
kados |
tumer: wow, that's great news |
| 20:06 |
|
kados |
tumer: congrats |
| 20:06 |
|
tumer |
sorry i thought it was you KOHA2s performane |
| 20:06 |
|
kados |
tumer: well, I was at an exhibit there |
| 20:06 |
|
kados |
tumer: mabe that's the performance :-) |
| 20:06 |
|
paul |
maybe we should share more our success. |
| 20:06 |
|
paul |
because when looking for new customers, success stories are important. |
| 20:06 |
|
kados |
paul: yea, agreed |
| 20:06 |
|
tumer |
they say we are giving them a real pain |
| 20:07 |
|
kados |
I think the new koha.org should include better capability to write case studies |
| 20:07 |
|
thd |
tumer: the LibLime booth was swamped every time I looked especially the second day |
| 20:07 |
|
kados |
thd: yea, it was very busy |
| 20:07 |
|
chris |
tumer: thats good to hear :) |
| 20:07 |
|
tnb |
*TNB can testify to ALA business :) |
| 20:07 |
|
owen |
kados, did anyone get pictures? |
| 20:07 |
|
thd |
:) |
| 20:07 |
|
kados |
and it's been almost a week |
| 20:08 |
|
tnb |
owen: my camera was behaving badly |
| 20:08 |
|
kados |
owen: i think Carl did, I'll have to ask him for a few |
| 20:08 |
|
tnb |
but i think one of our booth partners did |
| 20:08 |
|
kados |
tnb's camera died |
| 20:08 |
|
tnb |
it's alive again , strangely :) |
| 20:08 |
|
paul |
booth ??? |
| 20:08 |
|
kados |
paul: it's an exhibit space |
| 20:08 |
|
kados |
paul: demos, chairs, etc. |
| 20:08 |
|
paul |
ok |
| 20:08 |
|
thd |
I have an announcement |
| 20:09 |
|
kados |
thd: go for it :-) |
| 20:10 |
|
tumer |
a sales pitch:Millenium does not support multilingual search like Koha, thats how we got the parliament to install Koha if anyones interested |
| 20:10 |
|
thd |
GPL 3 came a little too close for my comfort to coming out with a major bug in the last sentence in section 13 |
| 20:10 |
|
kados |
tumer: *nod* |
| 20:10 |
|
tnb |
tumer: cool |
| 20:10 |
|
paul |
multinlingual search not supported ? what does it mean ? |
| 20:11 |
|
tumer |
like you may omit the accents and still find a record and also the fuzzy search |
| 20:11 |
|
tnb |
tumer: i think the 'performance' you refer to might be kados' presentation as keynote speaker at the III user group in US :) |
| 20:11 |
|
thd |
there have been some anomalies introduced in later drafts of GPL/AGPL 3 |
| 20:11 |
|
kados |
oh yea, that might be it |
| 20:11 |
|
kados |
thd: is GPLv3 final? |
| 20:12 |
|
paul |
kados : yep |
| 20:12 |
|
paul |
since 2 days unless i'm mistaken |
| 20:13 |
|
kados |
http://www.macalester.edu/mniug/index.html |
| 20:13 |
|
kados |
you can find my presentation there now, they uploaded it :-) |
| 20:13 |
|
thd |
kados: yes it was fixed because the bug was seen by people at the Software Freedom Law Center but it had made it into a draft which should not have happened |
| 20:13 |
|
kados |
thd: cool |
| 20:13 |
|
paul |
11MB ! wow, huge... |
| 20:13 |
|
kados |
hehe, sorry :-) |
| 20:13 |
|
kados |
it's image-heavy |
| 20:14 |
|
thd |
I called people the day before release for clarification |
| 20:14 |
|
kados |
thd: so you're happy with GPL v3 now? :-) |
| 20:14 |
|
kados |
I think I have to call TIME :-) |
| 20:14 |
|
kados |
we're about 10 minutes over |
| 20:14 |
|
kados |
thanks for attending everyone |
| 20:15 |
|
paul |
have a good day guys. |
| 20:15 |
|
kados |
night paul |
| 20:15 |
|
chris |
cya paul |
| 20:15 |
|
thd |
so my announcement is to encourage people to pay attention to the AGPL V3 comment process at http://gplv3.fsf.org with maybe a month or two left before that is released |
| 20:15 |
|
kados |
heh |
| 20:15 |
|
tumer |
night all |
| 20:15 |
|
tnb |
night tumer :) |
| 20:15 |
|
kados |
thd: cool, thanks for bringing that up |
| 20:15 |
|
kados |
night tumer |
| 20:15 |
|
thd |
goodnight tumer |
| 20:15 |
|
paul |
lol : "freedom to innovate" : kados, do you confirm you were speaking to "Innovative Inteface" users ... |
| 20:16 |
|
kados |
paul: hehe, yes :-) |
| 20:16 |
|
paul |
kados has a lot of humous... |
| 20:16 |
|
paul |
kados has a lot of humour... |
| 20:16 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 20:16 |
|
kolibrie |
it sounds like I should wait a couple of weeks till the switch to git is made, then get involved |
| 20:16 |
|
kados |
the III users do not have humour :-) |
| 20:16 |
|
kados |
kolibrie: you a git native? |
| 20:17 |
|
kolibrie |
kados: mostly use darcs, but some git, avoid CVS |
| 20:17 |
|
kados |
cool |
| 20:17 |
|
kados |
kolibrie: your experience will be valuable, maybe we could get you to comment on our proposed workflow when it's ready to show |
| 20:17 |
|
thd |
kados: no one is perfectly happy with GPL 3 because of compromises made to avoid forking the code but I am extremely pleased with it |
| 20:17 |
|
kolibrie |
kados: sure |
| 20:17 |
|
kados |
ok, well now I've got to run |
| 20:17 |
|
kados |
I'll be afk for a hour or so |
| 20:19 |
|
kolibrie |
thanks for letting me listen in |
| 20:19 |
|
Irma |
thanks for the good meeting |
| 20:48 |
|
kados |
liblimers around? |
| 20:49 |
|
kados |
ryan: |
| 20:49 |
|
kados |
chris: |
| 20:49 |
|
kados |
Bo's having trouble logging into that test instance we set up of 3.0 |
| 20:49 |
|
ryan |
using firefox ? |
| 20:49 |
|
BrookeatHinsdal |
Yep |
| 20:50 |
|
ryan |
lemme check |
| 20:50 |
|
BrookeatHinsdal |
I noticed it didn't work at all under Safari and IE |
| 20:50 |
|
BrookeatHinsdal |
Both on a Mac and a PC |
| 20:51 |
|
ryan |
user: koha2 |
| 20:52 |
|
BrookeatHinsdal |
and the pass? |
| 20:52 |
|
ryan |
liblime ? |
| 20:52 |
|
ryan |
BrookeatHinsdal: were you using koha2 before ? |
| 20:52 |
|
BrookeatHinsdal |
nope |
| 20:52 |
|
BrookeatHinsdal |
and that's not working for me either |
| 20:53 |
|
ryan |
i think someone changed the login |
| 20:53 |
|
BrookeatHinsdal |
i'm still getting You entered an incorrect username or password. Please try again. |
| 20:53 |
|
ryan |
i'll give you a new one |
| 20:56 |
|
chris |
heya brooke |
| 20:57 |
|
kados |
experimenting with a slightly more friendly style :-) |
| 21:00 |
|
BrookeatHinsdal |
3 |
| 21:00 |
|
kados |
3? |
| 21:00 |
|
dewey |
3 are in the same building, 3 are in other locations |
| 21:00 |
|
BrookeatHinsdal |
hey Im in :) |
| 21:02 |
|
ryan |
3 is the magic number |
| 21:02 |
|
BrookeatHinsdal |
yup |
| 21:02 |
|
BrookeatHinsdal |
as in this is the third time I'm trying to get the tub in, so it ought work >:) |
| 21:03 |
|
ryan |
russel++ for updating the css on that install |
| 21:04 |
|
ryan |
was barely navigable a couple days ago |
| 21:04 |
|
chris |
oh yeah i fixed some files there too, so you might have to do a git clean before ur next pull ryan |
| 21:04 |
|
ryan |
cool, thx ... hadn't updated in some time |
| 21:12 |
|
kados |
so did we actually decide that russ and chris would fill the roles of documentation and qa managers? |
| 21:12 |
|
russel |
ryan - paul suggested intranet2.css instead of san-op |
| 21:12 |
|
chris |
no one else wanted too |
| 21:12 |
|
russel |
so i made that change as well |
| 21:12 |
|
kados |
or are we pending a role description and nomitations on list |
| 21:12 |
|
chris |
i think for those roles its ok, unless someone complains |
| 21:12 |
|
chris |
the big ones |
| 21:12 |
|
kados |
yea |
| 21:12 |
|
kados |
that was my thought too |
| 21:12 |
|
chris |
like RM and kaitiaki |
| 21:13 |
|
kados |
just wanted to make sure |
| 21:13 |
|
chris |
we have to get more consensus on |
| 21:13 |
|
kados |
*nod* |
| 21:13 |
|
russel |
the other roles - i think people are just happy someone does it :-) |
| 21:13 |
|
kados |
yea |
| 21:15 |
|
chris |
that could get old :) |
| 21:16 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 21:18 |
|
martinmorris |
evening - got a couple more thicky newbie questions |
| 21:18 |
|
martinmorris |
i've done a MARC check and got an issue with the itemnum field |
| 21:18 |
|
martinmorris |
says: |
| 21:18 |
|
martinmorris |
* The field itemnum MUST be mapped |
| 21:18 |
|
martinmorris |
* The correspounding subfield MUST be in with -1 (ignore) tab |
| 21:18 |
|
martinmorris |
but i can't find the itemnum field anywhere |
| 21:19 |
|
chris |
if you go to systemadministration |
| 21:20 |
|
chris |
there is a link called MARC2Koha links (i think thats what its called) |
| 21:20 |
|
chris |
if you click on that |
| 21:20 |
|
chris |
then in the dropdown, choose items |
| 21:20 |
|
martinmorris |
Links KOHA - MARC DB |
| 21:20 |
|
chris |
its actually itemnumber not itemnum ... bad error message that |
| 21:21 |
|
martinmorris |
ah, OK |
| 21:21 |
|
martinmorris |
well that's currently mapped to 952u |
| 21:21 |
|
chris |
right |
| 21:21 |
|
martinmorris |
so why might it be complaining? |
| 21:21 |
|
chris |
so you want to then go and make sure 952u is set to ignore |
| 21:21 |
|
martinmorris |
my installation is doing a couple of odd things |
| 21:21 |
|
BrookeatHinsdal |
did you make that visible>? |
| 21:21 |
|
chris |
(you dont want humans touching that field) |
| 21:21 |
|
BrookeatHinsdal |
cause it should be -0 ignore |
| 21:21 |
|
martinmorris |
possibly - i'll check |
| 21:21 |
|
martinmorris |
-0? |
| 21:21 |
|
martinmorris |
ok |
| 21:22 |
|
chris |
it should just say ignore in the dropdown if you set it to that, it should stop complaining |
| 21:23 |
|
martinmorris |
is there anywhere i can formaly notify little problems like that i get to help out with future bug fixes and so on? |
| 21:23 |
|
chris |
http://bugs.koha.org |
| 21:23 |
|
chris |
you could put a bug there saying the error message when doing marc check is misleading |
| 21:24 |
|
chris |
at the dev meeting today, we have nearly (if he says yes) appointed a person to look after the FAQ |
| 21:24 |
|
martinmorris |
i'll make sure i add that, thank you |
| 21:24 |
|
chris |
so when that starts hopefully it will cover gotchas like this |
| 21:24 |
|
martinmorris |
it did confuse me a bit |
| 21:24 |
|
chris |
yeah, its not the most helpful message |
| 21:25 |
|
martinmorris |
i've got another little error |
| 21:25 |
|
martinmorris |
i've started adding personal name authorities |
| 21:25 |
|
chris |
ahh authorities |
| 21:25 |
|
chris |
i know very little about them |
| 21:26 |
|
chris |
ryan might be able to help if he is a bout |
| 21:26 |
|
martinmorris |
used a few to edit some biblios, but when i search for an authority i know i've used it tells me i've not used it in any biblios, which worries me |
| 21:28 |
|
chris |
hmm yeah that doesnt sound right |
| 21:28 |
|
chris |
id check its not already reported at bugs.koha.org and report it if not |
| 21:28 |
|
martinmorris |
fair enough |
| 21:28 |
|
martinmorris |
one or two more quick questions... |
| 21:28 |
|
chris |
fire awa |
| 21:28 |
|
chris |
y |
| 21:29 |
|
martinmorris |
the MARC checks are also telling me under the 'item fields' row that: |
| 21:29 |
|
martinmorris |
ALL items fields MUST : |
| 21:29 |
|
martinmorris |
* be mapped to the same tag, |
| 21:29 |
|
martinmorris |
* and they must all be in the 10 (items) tab |
| 21:30 |
|
chris |
yeah all except itemnumber :-) |
| 21:31 |
|
martinmorris |
so what other items fields is it talking about? everything under items inthe MARC Links page? |
| 21:32 |
|
chris |
yeah everything you want linked |
| 21:32 |
|
chris |
i think itemnumber is the only one that must be |
| 21:32 |
|
chris |
but if you want to be able to search by branch etc |
| 21:33 |
|
chris |
then you want holdingbranch and homebranch linked |
| 21:33 |
|
martinmorris |
yes it's moaning about those too |
| 21:33 |
|
chris |
and you'll probably want itemcallnumber too |
| 21:33 |
|
martinmorris |
i'm confused though sorry, you don't mean EVERYTHING under 'items' |
| 21:33 |
|
martinmorris |
? |
| 21:33 |
|
chris |
the ones you want linked |
| 21:33 |
|
chris |
must all be linked to the same tag |
| 21:34 |
|
martinmorris |
is there anything else i might want linked? everything else there seems veyr different |
| 21:34 |
|
chris |
ie you cant link home branch to something in 952 and holding branch to something in 960 |
| 21:34 |
|
chris |
brooke might know |
| 21:34 |
|
martinmorris |
ah i'm with you, sorry :) |
| 21:34 |
|
martinmorris |
everything there is under 952 except holdingbranch which is under 850 |
| 21:35 |
|
chris |
ahhh |
| 21:35 |
|
chris |
that will be the error then |
| 21:35 |
|
martinmorris |
was having a blonde moment there :) |
| 21:35 |
|
martinmorris |
so i stick holding branch on a 952 subfield then? |
| 21:35 |
|
chris |
yup |
| 21:35 |
|
chris |
and that should make that error go away |
| 21:35 |
|
martinmorris |
that would be 952d, soon as i clicked on it it pretty much corrected itself :) |
| 21:36 |
|
martinmorris |
so now it's just homebranch and holdingbranch |
| 21:36 |
|
martinmorris |
which in this case will always be the same for every item |
| 21:36 |
|
chris |
cool |
| 21:37 |
|
slef |
hi all |
| 21:37 |
|
russel |
hiya slef |
| 21:38 |
|
kados |
hey slef |
| 21:38 |
|
kados |
heh |
| 21:40 |
|
martinmorris |
it's 20 to 11 - that's quite some transport disruption :) |
| 21:41 |
|
slef |
martinmorris: wasn't supposed to arrive here until 11 if on time |
| 21:41 |
|
martinmorris |
hard day at the office then? :) |
| 21:41 |
|
slef |
customer visit |
| 21:42 |
|
martinmorris |
ok |
| 21:42 |
|
slef |
dewey: forget here |
| 21:42 |
|
dewey |
slef: I forgot here |
| 21:43 |
|
chris |
:) |
| 21:44 |
|
slef |
kados: I think you need to ask network opers to reinstate channel ops |
| 21:44 |
|
slef |
kados: they may or may not like to do that. "/stats o" may show you oper nicknames. |
| 21:44 |
|
kados |
yea |
| 21:45 |
|
kados |
maybe si? |
| 21:45 |
|
slef |
if we do get them, maybe give one of the bots chan op and give it some way to op other people |
| 21:45 |
|
slef |
but this is an aside, really |
| 21:45 |
|
kados |
yup |
| 21:46 |
|
kados |
I really only care during meetings so I can set the topic |
| 21:46 |
|
kados |
:-) |
| 21:46 |
|
slef |
could also make a bot capable of changing topic, perhaps |
| 21:48 |
|
slef |
take a crack isn't kiwi-specific |
| 21:48 |
|
chris |
hehe |
| 21:49 |
|
slef |
If you are adding plone, can you enable the ftp interface? |
| 21:49 |
|
kados |
yep, it should be enabled |
| 21:49 |
|
kados |
and we can give certain roles access |
| 21:49 |
|
kados |
(probably not general access though) |
| 21:49 |
|
slef |
then I can mount it as a curlftpfs and use good tools |
| 21:49 |
|
kados |
yep |
| 21:50 |
|
slef |
kados is only 9? |
| 21:50 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 21:50 |
|
kados |
I'm very tall for my age :-0 |
| 21:51 |
|
slef |
I'm interested in translation systems, especially if/when mm starts coordinating a translation |
| 21:51 |
|
slef |
pate is a ruby riter now, did you see? |
| 21:52 |
|
chris |
he always was a ruby enthusiast |
| 21:52 |
|
martinmorris |
still having trouble with the marc checks on the homebranch and holdingbranch tests |
| 21:52 |
|
martinmorris |
they're mapped to 952b and 952d |
| 21:52 |
|
martinmorris |
both have authorised value=branches |
| 21:53 |
|
martinmorris |
and it's still complaining :) |
| 21:53 |
|
chris |
and both in tab 10? |
| 21:53 |
|
martinmorris |
the error message doesn't mention tab 10 at all |
| 21:53 |
|
martinmorris |
i need to do that do I? |
| 21:53 |
|
chris |
umm i think i saw something about that |
| 21:53 |
|
martinmorris |
i'll give it a go |
| 21:53 |
|
kados |
we need to improve the error message sound slike |
| 21:54 |
|
chris |
* and they must all be in the 10 (items) tab |
| 21:54 |
|
martinmorris |
lemme see what happens |
| 21:56 |
|
martinmorris |
why would koha care what tab they're in? |
| 21:57 |
|
chris |
ahh cos the items tab is handled a bit differently in the marc editor to the rest of them |
| 21:58 |
|
slef |
installer... |
| 21:58 |
|
dewey |
somebody said installer was still weak I think |
| 21:58 |
|
slef |
dewey: hell yeah! |
| 21:58 |
|
dewey |
slef: i'm not following you... |
| 21:58 |
|
slef |
dewey: say thank you for the botsnack |
| 21:58 |
|
dewey |
:) |
| 21:59 |
|
slef |
I'm going for two parts... firstly, a Makefile.PL to check the dependencies and help out with packaging generally |
| 21:59 |
|
slef |
secondly, a very simple script to do just enough to get the web installer running |
| 22:00 |
|
kados |
that sounds great slef |
| 22:00 |
|
slef |
I'm going to ask the lists for "simplest way to install a virtual host on your OS/distribution" unless anyone knows of such a list already? I know debian with a2ensite, but not much else |
| 22:00 |
|
kados |
<- doesn't know |
| 22:00 |
|
slef |
That's going to be the biggest variable, I suspect |
| 22:01 |
|
chris |
yeah |
| 22:01 |
|
slef |
Is there an init script for zebrasrv? |
| 22:01 |
|
chris |
mostly |
| 22:01 |
|
slef |
That's the other thing I think we're missing |
| 22:01 |
|
martinmorris |
this might all explain why i've been having weird stuff going on with items (like not being able to add them and getting a new one everytime i change the biblio) |
| 22:01 |
|
kados |
slef: might be worth seeing how plone does it |
| 22:01 |
|
chris |
i wrote one |
| 22:01 |
|
chris |
but it relies on daemon |
| 22:02 |
|
kados |
slef: it's fully cross platform afaikt |
| 22:02 |
|
kados |
martinmorris: yea, that'd do it |
| 22:02 |
|
slef |
kados: I want to do the package-ready thing first. I think then we can use other tools to import the setup |
| 22:02 |
|
kados |
martinmorris: you wanna propose some changes to the error messages? |
| 22:02 |
|
martinmorris |
i moved the 952 stuff to tab 0 to speed up editing |
| 22:02 |
|
kados |
martinmorris: I'll add them so the next poor bloke has an easier time of it :-) |
| 22:03 |
|
martinmorris |
i'll note these down and propose them, yes :) |
| 22:03 |
|
kados |
martinmorris++ |
| 22:03 |
|
slef |
kados: but getting packages for debian, fedora, and so on is my main priority, and I think that will work best if we mimic CPAN and post-install scripts. |
| 22:03 |
|
kados |
packages would be sweet |
| 22:04 |
|
kados |
apt-get install koha |
| 22:04 |
|
kados |
:-) |
| 22:04 |
|
kados |
what would be equally cool is if we could distribute updates that way |
| 22:04 |
|
slef |
kados: so timeline... after yesterday's testing, I've lots more data. A basic packager should be there this week, with the install script next week. |
| 22:05 |
|
kados |
wow, that's great slef! |
| 22:05 |
|
slef |
The changes to 3.0's layout are a big help... only real wart is to make the default configs follow FHS |
| 22:05 |
|
kados |
FHS++ |
| 22:06 |
|
slef |
kados: I _will_ be telling you if there's a shark fin lurking that derails that schedule ;-) |
| 22:06 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 22:06 |
|
slef |
I didn't spot anything as awkward as when I was trying to build this last time, though. |
| 22:07 |
|
kados |
yea, i think the code cleanup was done well |
| 22:07 |
|
slef |
Main thing that tripped me up was the line "4. Start zebra" or whatever it was in the install notes. |
| 22:07 |
|
kados |
ahh |
| 22:07 |
|
kados |
right |
| 22:07 |
|
kados |
zebrasrv -f /path/to/koha.xml |
| 22:07 |
|
slef |
Unfortunately, the zebra packages have no README, as far as I could tell. Had to hit the web |
| 22:07 |
|
kados |
was that not in there? |
| 22:07 |
|
kados |
we need to hand out a daemon too |
| 22:07 |
|
slef |
No... there was some suggestion of something similar in the wiki, IIRC |
| 22:08 |
|
kados |
so you just go /koha/etc/init.d/zebradaemon start |
| 22:08 |
|
chris |
yeah i wrote that |
| 22:08 |
|
chris |
but it relies on the daemon tool |
| 22:08 |
|
kados |
there are a couple zebra daemons floating around |
| 22:08 |
|
kados |
check the list too |
| 22:08 |
|
slef |
or "ln -s path/to/koha-zebra /etc/init.d && update-rc.d add koha-zebra defaults" or whatever it is |
| 22:08 |
|
chris |
works a treat on debian .. not sure about anything else |
| 22:09 |
|
slef |
chris: Must be a Linux Standard Base way to do this |
| 22:09 |
|
chris |
you;d think so |
| 22:09 |
|
slef |
chris: (which may annoy the Solaris and *BSD, but hey...) |
| 22:10 |
|
slef |
chris: you've looked and not found? |
| 22:10 |
|
chris |
nope |
| 22:11 |
|
slef |
About git, the big switch-over will be when the release manager switches |
| 22:11 |
|
chris |
good point |
| 22:12 |
|
slef |
at the moment, developers can switch over when they want, as long as they're willing to email patches back for CVS |
| 22:13 |
|
chris |
yeah |
| 22:13 |
|
slef |
brb, ice cream |
| 22:16 |
|
slef |
back |
| 22:16 |
|
slef |
Has anyone tested git-cvspserver yet? |
| 22:17 |
|
martinmorris |
yippee items works again :) |
| 22:17 |
|
kados |
<- I haven't |
| 22:18 |
|
slef |
"The hazard under United States copyright law is that any joint author |
| 22:18 |
|
slef |
could relicense the work as a whole without consultation under any license |
| 22:18 |
|
slef |
with only the obligation to provide royalties to the other authors." |
| 22:21 |
|
slef |
I can also see an argument brewing about AGPL being the way to go. |
| 22:21 |
|
slef |
(AGPL isn't "copyleft for network" - it's a new Obnoxious Ad Clause) |
| 22:23 |
|
slef |
ok, so I disagree with much of thd's comments and I've no intention to ask ttllp to assign any copyrights, particularly not to a pig-in-a-poke like kohala, as things currently stand |
| 22:24 |
|
kados |
hehe |
| 22:24 |
|
kados |
yea, same with me |
| 22:24 |
|
kados |
I'd need to trust that a non-profit was headed in some direction |
| 22:24 |
|
kados |
that I agreed with and felt comfortable with |
| 22:25 |
|
kados |
before I'd be willing to assign copyright over |
| 22:25 |
|
slef |
It's good that he's written it, but I'm disappointed that it has no references, because claims like that "any joint author" one make my eyes bulge. |
| 22:25 |
|
slef |
It could be true, but it contradicts what I've been told before. |
| 22:26 |
|
kados |
I'm sure he'd be happy to add references |
| 22:26 |
|
kados |
if you ask him on-list |
| 22:26 |
|
kados |
or off for that matter |
| 22:26 |
|
slef |
I will |
| 22:31 |
|
slef |
ok, I've run out of meeting |
| 22:33 |
|
slef |
well done for snapping it at an hour |
| 22:39 |
|
kados |
thx, it's always hard |
| 22:39 |
|
kados |
but people start drifting after about 45 minutes :-) |
| 22:39 |
|
thd |
slef are you still there? |
| 22:40 |
|
slef |
yep |
| 22:41 |
|
slef |
it has more references ;-) |
| 22:42 |
|
thd |
slef perhaps I should have provided some case law examples about my assertion about how joint works work authorship rights are treated under US copyright law. |
| 22:45 |
|
thd |
slef: Erickson v. Trinity Theatre Inc. 13 F.3d 1061 |
| 22:46 |
|
slef |
thd: is there a US equivalent of bailii.org ? (judgements online) |
| 22:47 |
|
thd |
slef: Pye v. Mitchell 574 F.2d 476 |
| 22:48 |
|
thd |
slef: unfortunately unless you have a very expensive subscription to NEXIS only very recent US decisions are available online |
| 22:49 |
|
thd |
s/NEXIS/LEXIS/ |
| 22:50 |
|
slef |
thd: land of the free, except when someone can make money |
| 22:51 |
|
thd |
slef: the issue of public access to court records is a big problem in the US |
| 22:51 |
|
slef |
thd: US is a common law system, isn't it? |
| 22:52 |
|
thd |
slef: the official court reporting is often a commercial publisher which insists that its pagination of court decisions is copyrightable |
| 22:53 |
|
slef |
bizarre to be prevented from reading your own law by a trick like that |
| 22:53 |
|
thd |
slef: the US is a civil law system which accepts common law principles |
| 22:53 |
|
thd |
slef: the US really tries very hard to encode everything into laws and rules unlike other more flexible systems |
| 22:55 |
|
thd |
slef: I seem to have no citation for the joint work issue more recent than 1992, although, I suspect they could be found with some little effort researching in a law library |
| 22:56 |
|
thd |
slef: the issue is very familiar to lawyers in the US but is one of the things which I identified as seeming counter-intuitive |
| 22:58 |
|
thd |
slef: I agree that no assignment should be made to an organisation we could not all trust. I merely hoped to provoke renewed discussion of a Koha foundation |
| 22:59 |
|
thd |
slef: I have no particular knowledge of Kohala, although, I would suspect that it does not have sufficiently good governance procedures |
| 23:00 |
|
slef |
I know nothing of it besides its existance, presumably as an ASBL |
| 23:00 |
|
thd |
slef: ASBL? |
| 23:00 |
|
slef |
Association Sans But Lucratif |
| 23:00 |
|
slef |
French not-for-profit |
| 23:01 |
|
thd |
slef: is there a distinction between not-for profit and non-profit in France? |
| 23:02 |
|
slef |
Don't know. Is there in US? |
| 23:03 |
|
thd |
slef: yes in the US those are two distinct but similar organisation types |
| 23:04 |
|
thd |
slef: some charities which run shops in the US are not for profit organisations but are duly regarded with suspicion on that account |
| 23:04 |
|
thd |
s/shops/thrift shops/ |
| 23:04 |
|
slef |
I thought the US had no concept of charities beyond IR 501c(3) coding? |
| 23:05 |
|
thd |
slef: both types of organisations may qualify and I do not know what the real distinction is |
| 23:06 |
|
thd |
slef: not for profit organisations are not the norm |
| 23:09 |
|
thd |
slef: my statement about joint works was not that that was the way the authors behaved or ought to but the actual legal form of a software project is not easy to determine |
| 23:11 |
|
thd |
slef: especially when most do not know that issue under US law |
| 23:13 |
|
thd |
slef: Furthermore, it can be difficult to know just what type of an organisation a software project really has and no one wants a dispute about their own project so the issue is ignored unless there is a trusted entity to which assignments may be made |
| 23:14 |
|
thd |
slef: so how is the AGPL V3 draft any worse than GPL 3 in the ad-ware terms which you had criticised it? |
| 23:15 |
|
slef |
The GPL 3 ones are avoidable, except the AGPL 3 upgrade clause. |
| 23:16 |
|
thd |
slef: there is no upgrade clause any longer |
| 23:17 |
|
slef |
thd: I blame stet for me being confused on that, then. |
| 23:17 |
|
thd |
slef: the upgrade clause was dropped in GPL V3 discussion draft 3 |
| 23:17 |
|
thd |
slef: stet? |
| 23:18 |
|
slef |
thd: the web 2.Null system FSF used that locked many users out of the consultations |
| 23:18 |
|
thd |
oh yes, I had forgotten the name |
| 23:19 |
|
slef |
So "Use with the GNU Affero General Public License" is not in the final GPLv3? |
| 23:19 |
|
thd |
slef: I never used that to actually read the license drafts |
| 23:20 |
|
thd |
slef: there is that in section 13 but it works differently than it would have as part of section 7 |
| 23:22 |
|
thd |
slef: if you would link or combine GPL 3 code with AGPL 3 code then the network obligations to provide access to Corresponding Source for the work as a whole apply |
| 23:23 |
|
thd |
slef: that does not change the license for the GPL 3 linked parts as separate programs |
| 23:25 |
|
slef |
gives much stuff to cut out to avoid the licence being applied to the output |
| 23:27 |
|
thd |
slef: a network use clause is the only thing which can prevent Koha at some future time from being mixed with Sirsi proprietary code and being marketed as Symphony Web ILS without Sirsi giving back the modifications |
| 23:28 |
|
thd |
slef: what do you mean by 'the license being applied to the output'? |
| 23:28 |
|
slef |
thd: I disagree. A network use clause is usually circumventable and mainly a PITA for legitimate users. |
| 23:29 |
|
slef |
thd: the output of a web program is what it sends to the browser, right? |
| 23:30 |
|
thd |
slef: how would you circumvent the current language or the current language if the word 'remotely' was dropped or clarified. |
| 23:30 |
|
thd |
slef: yes the output is sent to the browser |
| 23:31 |
|
slef |
I've not reviewed the AGPLv3 recently (it's stuck in stet), but the AGPL 2 was circumventable by proxy use IIRC and maybe by grandfathering. |
| 23:31 |
|
slef |
thd: would you accept as free software a printer driver where the licence says that the maker's free printer driver offer has to be printed in the corner of every page? |
| 23:33 |
|
thd |
slef: I would if the feature did not interfere with printing |
| 23:33 |
|
thd |
slef: the offer does not have to be printed in the corner of the web page |
| 23:34 |
|
thd |
slef: only a link to the offer needs to appear somewhere it can reasonably be expected to be found by the user |
| 23:34 |
|
thd |
slef: if the whole offer had to appear on every page then I would agree with you |
| 23:36 |
|
thd |
slef: however, the offer should not need to be anything more than a menu item and it could even be part of the same menu item from which copyright notices, etc. are linked |
| 23:36 |
|
slef |
thd: so it's mainly a difference in scale. Free software licences |
| 23:36 |
|
slef |
shouldn't limit what users can make with the tools like that. |
| 23:37 |
|
thd |
slef: there is no restriction on private modification |
| 23:37 |
|
slef |
thd: so if I am using it in private between me and my collaborators, this restriction doesn't apply? |
| 23:38 |
|
thd |
slef: however, this is no different from being required to include a written offer for Corresponding Source if you distribute a program in only object code form |
| 23:38 |
|
slef |
thd: it's very different. That's parallel, this is integral. |
| 23:39 |
|
slef |
this must be in-band, that can be out-of-band |
| 23:40 |
|
[K] |
*** part FreeNode!#koha: dbs n=danbas4-sudbury98-1279295098.dsl.bell.ca |
| 23:40 |
|
slef |
K now reports joins and parts? |
| 23:40 |
|
thd |
slef: this is nothing different from the possibly integral copyright and license notice requirements which were always part of the GPL from version 1 |
| 23:41 |
|
chris |
apparently so slef |
| 23:42 |
|
slef |
thd: it's different in that they're basic metadata necessary for users to know where they stand and this is much more, sometimes better done another way. |
| 23:43 |
|
thd |
slef: if an upstream user had provided a feature which included a menu link to the copyright notices and license in the object code you code change the function or the particular menu item but you could not remove the menu item completely form modification which you distributed since GPL 1 |
| 23:44 |
|
thd |
s/you code/you could/ |
| 23:44 |
|
thd |
slef: how would you do it another way? |
| 23:45 |
|
thd |
s/upstream user/upstream author/ |
| 23:46 |
|
slef |
rely on distributed service and cooperation being better than the one-ASP model and friendly ex-customers sharing any worthwhile Koha-based code with us |
| 23:48 |
|
thd |
slef: how would you prevent the GPL from becoming effectively the BSD license for network use with some method different from the AGPL V3 draft? |
| 23:48 |
|
slef |
mainly through competitors' customers |
| 23:48 |
|
thd |
slef: what does that mean? |
| 23:49 |
|
slef |
If competitor installs it for a customer, they get the source still, right? |
| 23:50 |
|
slef |
Evenutally, customer becomes ex-customer, still has the source, can still share it. |
| 23:50 |
|
slef |
Also, I've no particular fear of the modBSD licence. |
| 23:50 |
|
slef |
However, AGPL makes the GPL effectively the original BSD licence for network use, with its own obnoxious ad clause. |
| 23:51 |
|
thd |
slef: only if conveyance (distribution) has occurred in which case there would be no problem |
| 00:00 |
|
thd` |
oops disconnected lets see if I can post what is not in logbot |
| 00:03 |
|
thd |
slef: that is a mistake about what the BSD advertising clause meant. The current BSD license requires giving credit to UC in the program. The original license tried to have an affect on any mention of the program in advertising anywhere or mention of its features in any publication. |
| 00:05 |
|
thd |
slef: the only thing removed between the before and after versions of the BSD license was the advertising clause relating to advertisements in other publications not legal notices within the program. |
| 00:07 |
|
thd |
slef: do you have no objection if Google takes all the code for which you have worked hard and mixes it with their own proprietary code to provide some service without contributing back their modifications or even giving you an acknowledgement? |
| 00:13 |
|
thd |
slef: are you still there? |
| 04:58 |
|
[K] |
*** join #kohaFreeNode: dbs n=danbas4-sudbury98-1279295098.dsl.bell.ca |
| 04:59 |
|
[K] |
*** part FreeNode!#koha: dbs n=danbas4-sudbury98-1279295098.dsl.bell.ca |
| 08:04 |
|
chris |
hi toins |
| 08:04 |
|
toins |
hello chris |
| 08:05 |
|
chris |
i hear congratulations are in order (wedding coming up?) |
| 09:39 |
|
Fallor |
hello |
| 11:03 |
|
kados |
morning all |
| 11:03 |
|
kados |
hi Fallor |
| 11:03 |
|
kados |
congrats toins |
| 11:03 |
|
kados |
paul around? |
| 11:04 |
|
kados |
paul_sleep: ping |
| 11:14 |
|
kados |
hdl: ping? |
