IRC log for #koha, 2007-07-04

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:12 kados anyone around yet?
12:12 kados paul_sleep: ?
12:12 kados hdl: ?
12:20 kados morning jaron
12:20 jaron good morning
12:20 kados jaron: for an idea of what a FAQ Manager would do, see that message from Rick Welykochy et al?
12:20 kados titled 'change password'
12:20 jaron just read it.
12:20 kados that thread would make an excellent FAQ
12:21 jaron yeah, I've started tagging messages koha_faq
12:21 kados sweet
12:21 jaron so I suppose I'm one step closer to just doing it
12:21 kados hehe
12:21 kados if you sign up at
12:23 jaron I don't see a registration page or anything there.
12:23 kados 9(click on 'join)
12:23 kados I'll give you you can start writing stuff
12:23 jaron brb
12:23 kados2 my IRC client is stalled
12:23 kados2 anyway
12:23 kados2 if you sign up at
12:23 kados2 you can play around with plone
12:24 jaron yes, now I see
12:24 jaron under documentation
12:26 kados[…]r/?searchterm=FAQ
12:26 kados looks pretty cool
12:28 jaron This looks like a good organization scheme too:
12:29 jaron sections menu, view section in full, view entire faq in full, click on individual question
12:30 jaron brb
12:32 kados FAQLater installed
12:34 kados cool, so now you can add a 'faq section' as one of the types
12:36 jaron signed up as jronallo
12:36 kados yup
12:47 jaron when I go to 'preferences' on the left side there's 'site setup' and I should have the option under Add-on Product Configuration to change a setting for how the FAQ works.
12:48 kados ahh
12:48 kados I can do that for ya
12:48 kados you mean the default faq?
12:49 kados or the new faq product?
12:49 jaron I was just looking at the faq under documentation.
12:50 jaron if the other isn't present yet then my guess is that would be under plone configuration
12:50 kados the other one should be present
12:50 jaron if you look under 'preferences'?
12:50 jaron there's a 'site setup' box off to the left
12:50 kados documentation/faq ships with the help center product
12:51 kados faqlater is a separate product I just installed
12:51 jaron I see.
12:51 kados don't see site setup
12:51 kados I see portal settings
12:51 kados hi paul_sleep
12:51 kados paul: great! :-)
12:51 kados paul: I can bug you about the web installer (pun intended) :)
12:52 jaron paul can sleep and work at the same time? amazing.
12:52 paul (just forgot to change my nick)
12:53 kados heh
12:55 jaron kados: did you give those plone permissions to jronallo?
13:40 paul how summer works in france :
13:41 paul 10mn later, phone ring : "we have recieved your invoice, just want to inform that you won't be paid before september, because of holidays"
13:42 jaron september?
13:42 paul yep. 2 months "disappear" for business in france...
13:43 jaron they don't have a single person on the job that can take care of something like making sure someone gets paid what's due them?
13:44 paul a single ? you're a crazy american aren't you ? In france, to pay a 2600€ quote, you need at least 4 persons to validate the quote, check that you have the money, check that you had a contract, check that the amount is the same as expected, send the quote to public accountant, that will re-check again. then send the file to the bank.
13:45 paul :-\
13:45 paul (of course, when you have public taxes, there is a delay, and being 1 day late means +10% ...)
13:50 sanspach can I ask a quick Koha migration question?
13:53 paul jaron: (was joking about crazy americans. The crazy guys are the frenchies...)
13:53 paul sanspach: throw your question...
13:54 sanspach I know of a site trying to move from another system (the one I work with in my real job) to Koha
13:54 sanspach and I'm trying to help them with data
13:55 sanspach they're thinking MARC for the bibliographic records, but that will probably lose a lot
13:55 sanspach is there a good way to bring in call numbers, item barcodes and all the stuff that's not normally stored in the MARC record?
13:55 sanspach or do they just have to re-enter a lot of that after loading their bibliographic records?
13:57 jaron sanspach: What kinds of records do they currently have?
13:58 sanspach bibliographic records can be exported in MARC, but they're having problems with that
13:58 sanspach I'd rather get the data out in a different way and include their copy data in it, but only if there's a viable way to import into Koha
14:06 jaron what problems are they having with their MARC records?
14:06 sanspach they can't get them to export :(  I'm working on that separately, trying to figure out why their old system won't export the records
14:07 sanspach but I thought if there were a way to get other, non-bib data into Koha, that it would be better to go a different route
14:07 kados I'd write something to pre-parse that data and put it into the MARC :-)
14:07 kados using MARC::Record probably
14:09 sanspach kados: so how about I help HCST get both bib and item data out in a flat ascii format and you pre-parse it to get it into Koha-compatible format?
14:09 sanspach :)
14:09 kados sure
14:09 kados contact for a quote on that ;-)
14:10 sanspach I don't know why they can't get their MARC export functionality to work (and unfortunately I've never worked with a Windows server)
14:10 sanspach but their bibs can't be complicated and there are other, more flexible ways to get flat ascii, with both their bibs and items
14:14 sanspach kados: I could do this as a one-time thing, but would it be more useful to do something that could be re-used for future migrations?
14:14 sanspach from that un-named system into Koha?
14:15 kados potentially yes
14:15 kados but you have to be careful there
14:15 kados about distributing that
14:15 kados especially if it reverse engineers the proprietary data structures
14:15 paul but you shold name the system, we may already have some tools on our disks...
14:16 kados I have been advised by my attorney not to distribute any migration tools
14:16 paul why ?
14:16 sanspach I plan to parse report output, not database structures, so I don't think there can be anything proprietary there
14:16 paul DMCA ?
14:17 kados sanspach: *nod*
14:17 kados paul: just to avoid any legal problems with proprietary vendors
14:17 sanspach I totally understand that there could be issues with database stuff; but I think report output should be safe
15:01 kados ryan:[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1368
15:01 kados # 02_authorities_normal_marc21.sql
15:01 kados ERROR 1062 (23000) at line 1: Duplicate entry '010-a' for key 1
15:01 kados # 01_auth_types.sql
15:01 kados ERROR 1062 (23000) at line 2: Duplicate entry '' for key 1
15:02 kados paul: did you see this error, I wonder if it's related:
15:02 kados paul:[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1369
15:02 kados "sql-datas dir, pick a naming convention, remove the rest"
15:10 kados ryan: if I just do auth_types.sql I get this error:
15:10 kados ERROR 1062 (23000) at line 2: Duplicate entry '' for key 1
15:11 kados I suspect the installer is populating the authorities frameworks
15:11 kados before the frameworks themselves are loaded
15:11 kados I don't understand what else could be happening, because I have the same kohastructure as paul
15:11 kados and we're both running off of a CVS repo
15:12 kados arrrg
15:12 kados coffee break
15:12 kados brb
15:17 ryan well, in fr/ , there's no auth_types
15:25 paul ryan : I tried with english, not with french :-(
15:27 ryan it must be loading the sql twice
15:30 kados paul: does it use the en dir or the english dir?
15:30 kados why do we have two?
15:30 kados (same for fr french it seems)
15:30 kados is hdl present?
15:31 kados I want to confirm it's OK to delete english and french
15:31 kados ryan: loading the sql twice?
15:31 paul nop, he is teaching Koha
15:31 paul back on thusday
15:31 kados ryan: why would mine load twice, but not paul's?
15:31 kados this is really strange
15:32 ryan maybe it's doing both en and english?
15:32 kados huh
15:32 ryan do a cvs update -dP
15:33 kados it still redirects back to the installer
15:33 ryan and the extra sql in english will go away
15:33 ryan (do you have english/*.sql ?)
15:33 kados yes
15:33 kados even after that command
15:33 kados wait
15:33 kados no i don't have .sql
15:34 kados just .txt and .readme
15:34 ryan i had sql and txt prior to prune
15:34 ryan no sql in french/ before
15:34 ryan better, rm -rf english/
15:34 kados to check out I do:
15:34 kados cvs -z3 co -P koha
15:35 kados so it should be pruned already
15:35 ryan hmm
15:35 kados ok, rm -rf koha
15:35 kados confirm apache can't find koha
15:35 ryan well, wrong tree to bark up, i guess
15:35 kados cvs -z3 co -P koha
15:35 kados drop database koha
15:36 kados create database koha
15:36 kados set perms on kohaadmin
15:36 kados now it finds the installer
15:36 kados step 1 OK
15:36 kados step 2 OK
15:37 kados Step 3 Create tables OK
15:37 kados Now we're ready to do some basic configuration. Please install basic configuration settings to continue the installation.
15:37 kados o I click on install base configuration
15:37 kados everything's out of order
15:37 kados so I just select 01_auth_types, everything else is unchecked
15:38 kados wow, that time it worked!
15:38 kados go back, select the other
15:38 kados s
15:38 kados that worked too!
15:38 kados click finish
15:39 kados still loops me back to the installer
15:39 kados paul: so one problem fixed, but not the one you committed :/
15:39 paul do you have <kohaversion> in koha.xml ?
15:40 kados I have it in systempreferences
15:40 kados but not in koha.xml
15:40 paul (read my commit & my mail to koha-devel)
15:40 kados ok
15:40 paul in systempref => it defines the version of the database
15:40 ryan ah, yes, better in koha.xml, i think
15:40 paul in koha.xml => it defines the version of the software
15:40 paul if they are not the same => update needed !
15:40 kados right
15:41 kados paul: does it write to koha.xml too?
15:41 paul read my mail ;-)
15:41 kados imo www-data user shouldnt have write access
15:45 kados paul: did you also commit <versionumber> to koha.xml in head?
15:45 paul there is no koha.xml in head, unless i'm mistaken
15:45 kados ahh
15:45 paul (but I should update my wiki page, where there is a sample koha.xml)
15:47 paul kados : it's <kohaversion>
15:48 kados yea
15:48 kados that's waht I meant
15:48 kados <kohaversion>3.0</kohaversion>
15:48 kados I have it in the <config> directive
15:49 kados ok
15:49 kados so the order is still causing the constraint prob
15:50 kados so you have to first do auth_type
15:50 kados then do the rest
15:50 kados otherwise it gives an error
15:50 kados otherwise it works
15:50 ryan kados: i think we should forget about the ordering.
15:50 kados redirect works now
15:50 kados ryan: what's the solution then?
15:51 ryan just do the skip-foreign-key-checks
15:51 kados I tried that yesterday , couldn't get it to work
15:51 ryan because there shouldn't be an auth_type of ''.
15:51 kados do we need to add that line to every sql file?
15:51 ryan just auth_tag_struct ?
15:52 ryan fr/ version doesn't define any auth_types...
15:52 kados what was the syntax again?
15:52 ryan i don't know why they don't get that error.
15:52 ryan (paul?)
15:52 kados paul: any ideas?
15:52 kados maybe the en way of defining authorities is wrong?
15:52 ryan set foreign_key_check = 0
15:52 paul ryan : i have tested the english version.
15:53 ryan kados: FOREIGN_KEY_CHECKS
15:54 ryan that will allow to remove the auth_type ''
15:55 ryan which is nonsensical anyway since it has no tag_to_report
15:56 kados bingo
15:56 kados ok, I'll commit that change
16:26 kados
16:26 kados in case anyone wants to test koha 3.0 with me
16:26 kados kohaadmin / PASSWORD
16:27 jaron any particular sections that need testing?
16:29 kados probably cataloging
16:29 jaron that's where I was.
16:29 kados looks like the css is messed up in some places too
16:29 kados but that's secondary :-)
16:29 kados yea, when I add a new MARC record I get a blank page
16:29 jaron I don't see anything come up when I try to catalog a record. no fields to fill in.
16:30 kados yep
16:30 kados so that's well buggy :-)
16:31 kados where's toins when you need him :-)
16:31 kados looks like the frameworks are OK
16:34 jaron I tried to export the records so I could then search for a known record in the database and instead of exporting is sends me
16:34 kados hehe
16:34 kados I know how to fix that one
16:35 jaron do you know of a record already in the database? my standby searches got no results.
16:35 kados don't think there are any yet
16:35 jaron and difficult to get them in there without a marc editor :/
16:35 kados hehe, yea
16:37 jaron do you have some you could import into the reservoir?
16:37 kados I'll see
16:38 kados I'm also thinking of changing 'cataloging' to 'technical services'
16:38 owen kados, borrower add is still a multi-step process?
16:38 kados having catalog and cataloging so close togehter is confusing
16:38 kados owen: yes, unfortunately
16:39 kados owen: that's on the bug list
16:39 kados owen: it's a blocker :-)
16:39 kados no-one is willing to re-write it :-)
16:40 kados owen: try out the types of patrons, that part is pretty cool
16:40 kados # 43 imported records
16:40 kados # 0 not imported because already in catalog
16:40 kados # 297 not imported because already in the reservoir
16:40 kados # 0 not imported because they seem not to be in MARC format (or ISBN/ISSN missing) !
16:40 kados # 340 records parsed
16:40 kados 297 in the reservoir already?
16:40 kados how is that possible?
16:41 kados and it still lists biblios in reservoir as none
16:41 kados so two bugs there
16:41 jaron at least
16:41 owen kados, what do you mean by types of patrons?
16:41 kados owen: click on Borrowers
16:42 kados (soon to be called Patrons)
16:42 jaron look towards the top.
16:42 kados yea, look at the top
16:42 jaron owen: it's difficult to see.
16:42 kados btw: it's super slow because this is running on a virtual private server
16:42 kados with like 128MB of ram
16:42 kados :-)
16:42 owen Do you mean the borrower types, adult child professional?
16:43 kados yea, that's part of it
16:43 kados but there's another level too
16:43 kados sec
16:43 kados[…]dmin/
16:43 kados owen: you can define ne patron categories and assign them to one of the four main types
16:44 kados s/ne/new/
16:44 kados one thing we have to add
16:44 kados is the ability for a child to have more than one parent
16:44 kados cuz a lot of them do :-)
16:44 owen More than one guarantor?
16:44 kados yea
16:46 owen It doesn't look like you can change the borrower type after the patron has been added. I don't see how to change a "professional" to something else.
16:47 kados owen: I've got a language question for ya
16:47 kados owen: did you used to use 'check out' instead of issues?
16:47 owen yes
16:47 jaron if it's going to be multistep, say something like (step 1 of 3)?
16:47 kados owen: how would you describe 'outstanding issues' report?
16:48 kados jaron: good point
16:48 owen That's awkward, because we would say "What do I have checked out," but "Check-outs" is no good.
16:49 kados this is a report you can run to see who has overdues I guess
16:49 kados
16:49 owen Then, "Overdues" :)
16:51 owen Looks like we've lost the link to issues from the borrower detail screen
16:52 kados I'm doing a template cleanup right now
16:52 kados so do you say
16:52 kados checkouts?
16:52 kados check-outs?
16:52 kados checked out?
16:53 owen What's the context?
16:53 kados Define issuing rules in a matrix for libraries / patrons / item types (number of issues, duration, cost...).
16:53 kados Define circulation rules in a matrix for libraries / patrons / itemtypes (number of XXX, ...)
16:54 kados so issues -> checkouts?
16:54 kados it's awkard
16:54 kados awkward even
16:54 owen Yeah, it is. I'm not sure what the right choice is.
16:55 owen I wish I could see what other ILSes use
16:55 kados yea
16:55 kados I'll do checkouts
16:55 jaron CheckOut is what unicorn uses for that task in the intranet
16:56 kados sweet, thanks jaron
16:56 kados that works
16:56 owen We should use the calendar picker on the issues screen instead of those drop-downs for 'specify due date'
16:56 jaron while I think their Discharging is a weird word.
16:56 owen jaron: are there places where unicorn refers to "checkouts"
16:57 owen "Check Out" doesn't sound awkward when it's an action, but it sounds weird as a noun.
16:57 kados jaron: yea, well voyager says Charge Out and Charge In
16:57 kados owen: wrote down calendar thingy
16:59 jaron I don't know about the intranet but the 'my account' part of the opac presents the user with their Checkouts
17:02 kados I think Last Borrower is an appropriate use of the term, right/
17:02 kados ?
17:02 kados last patron doesn't make quite as much sense
17:03 owen Yeah, I think last borrwoer is appropriate
17:03 kados street, place, road, etc.
17:03 kados list of authorized values
17:03 kados don't think I populated it in this install
17:05 kados No. of Issues
17:05 kados No. of times checked out?
17:09 kados owen: debarred?
17:09 kados owen: that's uncommon too, right?
17:09 kados shouldn't it just be 'Frozen' or somehing?
17:10 owen I suspect so. I think we used "Restricted" before, which is probably better
17:40 jaron where would I find the zebra config files that koha 3.0 uses?
17:41 kados hehe
17:41 kados good question
17:41 kados I don't think there are authoritative ones
17:41 kados well, there are, but not globally for the project
17:41 kados I can point you to the ones we use
17:42 jaron that'll be a start
17:42 kados zebra configuration is heady stuff
17:42 kados so be warned
17:42 jaron I'm working my way through the docs now
17:43 kados[…]/zebra/?root=koha
17:43 kados prolly a good place to start
17:44 jaron ok, misc. wouldn't have thought to look there right away. thanks.
17:44 kados yea
17:44 kados it's not the best place
17:44 kados in the install package it'll be laid out more sanely
18:40 kados ryan: still around?
18:40 kados [Tue Jul 03 11:39:19 2007] [error] [client] DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Unknown column 'defaultvalue' in 'field list' at /koha/production/intranet/modules/C4/ line 1464., referer:[…]guing/
18:40 kados [Tue Jul 03 11:39:19 2007] [error] [client] DBD::mysql::st fetchrow failed: fetch() without execute() at /koha/production/intranet/modules/C4/ line 1477., referer:[…]guing/
18:40 kados I guess that's something new
18:40 kados defaultvalue
18:40 kados probably the reason my marc editor isn't working
18:41 ryan missed updatedatabase.
18:41 kados huh
18:41 ryan installer should have run it, eh?
18:41 kados shouldn't have to do that with the installer
18:41 kados our kohastructure.sql should have everything needed
18:41 ryan but...
18:46 kados oh man
18:47 kados we have to add defaultvalue to every sql file I think
18:47 kados every marc21 framework
18:48 kados huh
18:48 kados defaultvalue isn't even in paul's database def
18:48 kados wtf?
19:09 owen kados: the process by which patrons are set as debarred--is that a custom script NPL is running? Or is that distributed with Koha?
19:14 kados it's distributed
19:14 kados but it has to be set up in the crontab
19:15 owen You'd have to check for outstanding fines at the very least.
19:16 owen Maybe borrower notes as well
19:16 kados what's the reverse?
19:16 kados take the status off when the book's returned??
19:16 owen Yes
19:16 kados the normal return process should already do that
19:17 owen Not in my experience.
19:19 owen Nope, doesn't work that way for us.
19:19 kados interesting
19:35 kados afternoon saorge
21:39 chris morning
21:47 martinmorris evening all - i was asking an authorities question last night and the expert wasn't here - just wondering if he is tonight?
21:47 chris well im not him :)
21:48 martinmorris it might be a simpler question - i'm just noticing that when i edit a biblio and link it to a name authority i've added - i then search for the name authority and it says it's used in 0 biblios
21:48 chris hmm that seems wrong
21:48 martinmorris well, that's what I thought
21:49 martinmorris there's nothing obvious in bugzila
21:50 chris hmm, id report it as a bug
21:50 chris and write down what you did
21:50 martinmorris i think i might
21:51 chris that way it will keep showing up in ppls bug lists and get fixed fast :)
21:51 martinmorris as a separate point, if my name authority has a 100 entry and a 400 entry, and i link it to a biblio, that biblio should be found whether i search for it through the 100 or 400 name, right?
21:52 chris thats what id expect
21:52 martinmorris yeah, that's not happening either
21:52 martinmorris wondering if i've set it up wrong, i'm fairly confidentish i haven't
21:53 chris bug is the best way to get lots of eyes on it, so even if it is a setup, they should be able to tell ya what is wrong
21:54 martinmorris doing so now, ta
21:54 chris cool
22:00 martinmorris bug id 1370
22:00 martinmorris off to bed, night! :)
22:00 chris night
00:59 kados hi paul__

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