Time Nick Message 11:14 kados hdl: ping? 11:04 kados paul_sleep: ping 11:03 kados paul around? 11:03 kados congrats toins 11:03 kados hi Fallor 11:03 kados morning all 09:39 Fallor hello 08:05 chris i hear congratulations are in order (wedding coming up?) 08:04 toins hello chris 08:04 chris hi toins 04:59 [K] *** part FreeNode!#koha: dbs n=dan@bas4-sudbury98-1279295098.dsl.bell.ca 04:58 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: dbs n=dan@bas4-sudbury98-1279295098.dsl.bell.ca 00:13 thd slef: are you still there? 00:07 thd slef: do you have no objection if Google takes all the code for which you have worked hard and mixes it with their own proprietary code to provide some service without contributing back their modifications or even giving you an acknowledgement? 00:05 thd slef: the only thing removed between the before and after versions of the BSD license was the advertising clause relating to advertisements in other publications not legal notices within the program. 00:03 thd slef: that is a mistake about what the BSD advertising clause meant. The current BSD license requires giving credit to UC in the program. The original license tried to have an affect on any mention of the program in advertising anywhere or mention of its features in any publication. 00:00 thd` oops disconnected lets see if I can post what is not in logbot 23:51 thd slef: only if conveyance (distribution) has occurred in which case there would be no problem 23:50 slef However, AGPL makes the GPL effectively the original BSD licence for network use, with its own obnoxious ad clause. 23:50 slef Also, I've no particular fear of the modBSD licence. 23:50 slef Evenutally, customer becomes ex-customer, still has the source, can still share it. 23:49 slef If competitor installs it for a customer, they get the source still, right? 23:48 thd slef: what does that mean? 23:48 slef mainly through competitors' customers 23:48 thd slef: how would you prevent the GPL from becoming effectively the BSD license for network use with some method different from the AGPL V3 draft? 23:46 slef rely on distributed service and cooperation being better than the one-ASP model and friendly ex-customers sharing any worthwhile Koha-based code with us 23:45 thd s/upstream user/upstream author/ 23:44 thd slef: how would you do it another way? 23:44 thd s/you code/you could/ 23:43 thd slef: if an upstream user had provided a feature which included a menu link to the copyright notices and license in the object code you code change the function or the particular menu item but you could not remove the menu item completely form modification which you distributed since GPL 1 23:42 slef thd: it's different in that they're basic metadata necessary for users to know where they stand and this is much more, sometimes better done another way. 23:41 chris apparently so slef 23:40 thd slef: this is nothing different from the possibly integral copyright and license notice requirements which were always part of the GPL from version 1 23:40 slef K now reports joins and parts? 23:40 [K] *** part FreeNode!#koha: dbs n=dan@bas4-sudbury98-1279295098.dsl.bell.ca 23:39 slef this must be in-band, that can be out-of-band 23:38 slef thd: it's very different. That's parallel, this is integral. 23:38 thd slef: however, this is no different from being required to include a written offer for Corresponding Source if you distribute a program in only object code form 23:37 slef thd: so if I am using it in private between me and my collaborators, this restriction doesn't apply? 23:37 thd slef: there is no restriction on private modification 23:36 slef shouldn't limit what users can make with the tools like that. 23:36 slef thd: so it's mainly a difference in scale. Free software licences 23:36 thd slef: however, the offer should not need to be anything more than a menu item and it could even be part of the same menu item from which copyright notices, etc. are linked 23:34 thd slef: if the whole offer had to appear on every page then I would agree with you 23:34 thd slef: only a link to the offer needs to appear somewhere it can reasonably be expected to be found by the user 23:33 thd slef: the offer does not have to be printed in the corner of the web page 23:33 thd slef: I would if the feature did not interfere with printing 23:31 slef thd: would you accept as free software a printer driver where the licence says that the maker's free printer driver offer has to be printed in the corner of every page? 23:31 slef I've not reviewed the AGPLv3 recently (it's stuck in stet), but the AGPL 2 was circumventable by proxy use IIRC and maybe by grandfathering. 23:30 thd slef: yes the output is sent to the browser 23:30 thd slef: how would you circumvent the current language or the current language if the word 'remotely' was dropped or clarified. 23:29 slef thd: the output of a web program is what it sends to the browser, right? 23:28 slef thd: I disagree. A network use clause is usually circumventable and mainly a PITA for legitimate users. 23:28 thd slef: what do you mean by 'the license being applied to the output'? 23:27 thd slef: a network use clause is the only thing which can prevent Koha at some future time from being mixed with Sirsi proprietary code and being marketed as Symphony Web ILS without Sirsi giving back the modifications 23:25 slef gives much stuff to cut out to avoid the licence being applied to the output 23:23 thd slef: that does not change the license for the GPL 3 linked parts as separate programs 23:22 thd slef: if you would link or combine GPL 3 code with AGPL 3 code then the network obligations to provide access to Corresponding Source for the work as a whole apply 23:20 thd slef: there is that in section 13 but it works differently than it would have as part of section 7 23:19 thd slef: I never used that to actually read the license drafts 23:19 slef So "Use with the GNU Affero General Public License" is not in the final GPLv3? 23:18 thd oh yes, I had forgotten the name 23:18 slef thd: the web 2.Null system FSF used that locked many users out of the consultations 23:17 thd slef: stet? 23:17 thd slef: the upgrade clause was dropped in GPL V3 discussion draft 3 23:17 slef thd: I blame stet for me being confused on that, then. 23:16 thd slef: there is no upgrade clause any longer 23:15 slef The GPL 3 ones are avoidable, except the AGPL 3 upgrade clause. 23:14 thd slef: so how is the AGPL V3 draft any worse than GPL 3 in the ad-ware terms which you had criticised it? 23:13 thd slef: Furthermore, it can be difficult to know just what type of an organisation a software project really has and no one wants a dispute about their own project so the issue is ignored unless there is a trusted entity to which assignments may be made 23:11 thd slef: especially when most do not know that issue under US law 23:09 thd slef: my statement about joint works was not that that was the way the authors behaved or ought to but the actual legal form of a software project is not easy to determine 23:06 thd slef: not for profit organisations are not the norm 23:05 thd slef: both types of organisations may qualify and I do not know what the real distinction is 23:04 slef I thought the US had no concept of charities beyond IR 501c(3) coding? 23:04 thd s/shops/thrift shops/ 23:04 thd slef: some charities which run shops in the US are not for profit organisations but are duly regarded with suspicion on that account 23:03 thd slef: yes in the US those are two distinct but similar organisation types 23:02 slef Don't know. Is there in US? 23:01 thd slef: is there a distinction between not-for profit and non-profit in France? 23:00 slef French not-for-profit 23:00 slef Association Sans But Lucratif 23:00 thd slef: ASBL? 23:00 slef I know nothing of it besides its existance, presumably as an ASBL 22:59 thd slef: I have no particular knowledge of Kohala, although, I would suspect that it does not have sufficiently good governance procedures 22:58 thd slef: I agree that no assignment should be made to an organisation we could not all trust. I merely hoped to provoke renewed discussion of a Koha foundation 22:56 thd slef: the issue is very familiar to lawyers in the US but is one of the things which I identified as seeming counter-intuitive 22:55 thd slef: I seem to have no citation for the joint work issue more recent than 1992, although, I suspect they could be found with some little effort researching in a law library 22:53 thd slef: the US really tries very hard to encode everything into laws and rules unlike other more flexible systems 22:53 thd slef: the US is a civil law system which accepts common law principles 22:53 slef bizarre to be prevented from reading your own law by a trick like that 22:52 thd slef: the official court reporting is often a commercial publisher which insists that its pagination of court decisions is copyrightable 22:51 slef thd: US is a common law system, isn't it? 22:51 thd slef: the issue of public access to court records is a big problem in the US 22:50 slef thd: land of the free, except when someone can make money 22:49 thd s/NEXIS/LEXIS/ 22:48 thd slef: unfortunately unless you have a very expensive subscription to NEXIS only very recent US decisions are available online 22:47 thd slef: Pye v. Mitchell 574 F.2d 476 22:46 slef thd: is there a US equivalent of bailii.org ? (judgements online) 22:45 thd slef: Erickson v. Trinity Theatre Inc. 13 F.3d 1061 22:42 thd slef perhaps I should have provided some case law examples about my assertion about how joint works work authorship rights are treated under US copyright law. 22:41 slef it has more references ;-) 22:40 slef yep 22:39 thd slef are you still there? 22:39 kados but people start drifting after about 45 minutes :-) 22:39 kados thx, it's always hard 22:33 slef well done for snapping it at an hour 22:31 slef ok, I've run out of meeting 22:26 slef I will 22:26 kados or off for that matter 22:26 kados if you ask him on-list 22:26 kados I'm sure he'd be happy to add references 22:25 slef It could be true, but it contradicts what I've been told before. 22:25 slef It's good that he's written it, but I'm disappointed that it has no references, because claims like that "any joint author" one make my eyes bulge. 22:25 kados before I'd be willing to assign copyright over 22:24 kados that I agreed with and felt comfortable with 22:24 kados I'd need to trust that a non-profit was headed in some direction 22:24 kados yea, same with me 22:24 kados hehe 22:23 slef ok, so I disagree with much of thd's comments and I've no intention to ask ttllp to assign any copyrights, particularly not to a pig-in-a-poke like kohala, as things currently stand 22:21 slef (AGPL isn't "copyleft for network" - it's a new Obnoxious Ad Clause) 22:21 slef I can also see an argument brewing about AGPL being the way to go. 22:18 slef with only the obligation to provide royalties to the other authors." 22:18 slef could relicense the work as a whole without consultation under any license 22:18 slef "The hazard under United States copyright law is that any joint author 22:17 kados <- I haven't 22:17 martinmorris yippee items works again :) 22:16 slef Has anyone tested git-cvspserver yet? 22:16 slef back 22:13 slef brb, ice cream 22:13 chris yeah 22:12 slef at the moment, developers can switch over when they want, as long as they're willing to email patches back for CVS 22:11 chris good point 22:11 slef About git, the big switch-over will be when the release manager switches 22:10 chris nope 22:10 slef chris: you've looked and not found? 22:09 slef chris: (which may annoy the Solaris and *BSD, but hey...) 22:09 chris you;d think so 22:09 slef chris: Must be a Linux Standard Base way to do this 22:08 chris works a treat on debian .. not sure about anything else 22:08 slef or "ln -s path/to/koha-zebra /etc/init.d && update-rc.d add koha-zebra defaults" or whatever it is 22:08 kados check the list too 22:08 kados there are a couple zebra daemons floating around 22:08 chris but it relies on the daemon tool 22:08 chris yeah i wrote that 22:08 kados so you just go /koha/etc/init.d/zebradaemon start 22:07 slef No... there was some suggestion of something similar in the wiki, IIRC 22:07 kados we need to hand out a daemon too 22:07 kados was that not in there? 22:07 slef Unfortunately, the zebra packages have no README, as far as I could tell. Had to hit the web 22:07 kados zebrasrv -f /path/to/koha.xml 22:07 kados right 22:07 kados ahh 22:07 slef Main thing that tripped me up was the line "4. Start zebra" or whatever it was in the install notes. 22:07 kados yea, i think the code cleanup was done well 22:06 slef I didn't spot anything as awkward as when I was trying to build this last time, though. 22:06 kados hehe 22:06 slef kados: I _will_ be telling you if there's a shark fin lurking that derails that schedule ;-) 22:05 kados FHS++ 22:05 slef The changes to 3.0's layout are a big help... only real wart is to make the default configs follow FHS 22:05 kados wow, that's great slef! 22:04 slef kados: so timeline... after yesterday's testing, I've lots more data. A basic packager should be there this week, with the install script next week. 22:04 kados what would be equally cool is if we could distribute updates that way 22:04 kados :-) 22:04 kados apt-get install koha 22:03 kados packages would be sweet 22:03 slef kados: but getting packages for debian, fedora, and so on is my main priority, and I think that will work best if we mimic CPAN and post-install scripts. 22:03 kados martinmorris++ 22:03 martinmorris i'll note these down and propose them, yes :) 22:02 kados martinmorris: I'll add them so the next poor bloke has an easier time of it :-) 22:02 martinmorris i moved the 952 stuff to tab 0 to speed up editing 22:02 kados martinmorris: you wanna propose some changes to the error messages? 22:02 slef kados: I want to do the package-ready thing first. I think then we can use other tools to import the setup 22:02 kados martinmorris: yea, that'd do it 22:02 kados slef: it's fully cross platform afaikt 22:01 chris but it relies on daemon 22:01 chris i wrote one 22:01 kados slef: might be worth seeing how plone does it 22:01 martinmorris this might all explain why i've been having weird stuff going on with items (like not being able to add them and getting a new one everytime i change the biblio) 22:01 slef That's the other thing I think we're missing 22:01 chris mostly 22:01 slef Is there an init script for zebrasrv? 22:01 chris yeah 22:00 slef That's going to be the biggest variable, I suspect 22:00 kados <- doesn't know 22:00 slef I'm going to ask the lists for "simplest way to install a virtual host on your OS/distribution" unless anyone knows of such a list already? I know debian with a2ensite, but not much else 22:00 kados that sounds great slef 21:59 slef secondly, a very simple script to do just enough to get the web installer running 21:59 slef I'm going for two parts... firstly, a Makefile.PL to check the dependencies and help out with packaging generally 21:58 dewey :) 21:58 slef dewey: say thank you for the botsnack 21:58 dewey slef: i'm not following you... 21:58 slef dewey: hell yeah! 21:58 dewey somebody said installer was still weak I think 21:58 slef installer... 21:57 chris ahh cos the items tab is handled a bit differently in the marc editor to the rest of them 21:56 martinmorris why would koha care what tab they're in? 21:54 martinmorris lemme see what happens 21:54 chris * and they must all be in the 10 (items) tab 21:53 kados we need to improve the error message sound slike 21:53 martinmorris i'll give it a go 21:53 chris umm i think i saw something about that 21:53 martinmorris i need to do that do I? 21:53 martinmorris the error message doesn't mention tab 10 at all 21:53 chris and both in tab 10? 21:53 martinmorris and it's still complaining :) 21:52 martinmorris both have authorised value=branches 21:52 martinmorris they're mapped to 952b and 952d 21:52 martinmorris still having trouble with the marc checks on the homebranch and holdingbranch tests 21:52 chris he always was a ruby enthusiast 21:51 slef pate is a ruby riter now, did you see? 21:51 slef I'm interested in translation systems, especially if/when mm starts coordinating a translation 21:50 kados I'm very tall for my age :-0 21:50 kados hehe 21:50 slef kados is only 9? 21:49 kados yep 21:49 slef then I can mount it as a curlftpfs and use good tools 21:49 kados (probably not general access though) 21:49 kados and we can give certain roles access 21:49 kados yep, it should be enabled 21:49 slef If you are adding plone, can you enable the ftp interface? 21:48 chris hehe 21:48 slef take a crack isn't kiwi-specific 21:46 slef could also make a bot capable of changing topic, perhaps 21:46 kados :-) 21:46 kados I really only care during meetings so I can set the topic 21:45 kados yup 21:45 slef but this is an aside, really 21:45 slef if we do get them, maybe give one of the bots chan op and give it some way to op other people 21:45 kados maybe si? 21:44 kados yea 21:44 slef kados: they may or may not like to do that. "/stats o" may show you oper nicknames. 21:44 slef kados: I think you need to ask network opers to reinstate channel ops 21:43 chris :) 21:42 dewey slef: I forgot here 21:42 slef dewey: forget here 21:42 martinmorris ok 21:41 slef customer visit 21:41 martinmorris hard day at the office then? :) 21:41 slef martinmorris: wasn't supposed to arrive here until 11 if on time 21:40 martinmorris it's 20 to 11 - that's quite some transport disruption :) 21:38 kados heh 21:38 kados hey slef 21:37 russel hiya slef 21:37 slef hi all 21:36 chris cool 21:36 martinmorris which in this case will always be the same for every item 21:36 martinmorris so now it's just homebranch and holdingbranch 21:35 martinmorris that would be 952d, soon as i clicked on it it pretty much corrected itself :) 21:35 chris and that should make that error go away 21:35 chris yup 21:35 martinmorris so i stick holding branch on a 952 subfield then? 21:35 martinmorris was having a blonde moment there :) 21:35 chris that will be the error then 21:35 chris ahhh 21:34 martinmorris everything there is under 952 except holdingbranch which is under 850 21:34 martinmorris ah i'm with you, sorry :) 21:34 chris brooke might know 21:34 chris ie you cant link home branch to something in 952 and holding branch to something in 960 21:34 martinmorris is there anything else i might want linked? everything else there seems veyr different 21:33 chris must all be linked to the same tag 21:33 chris the ones you want linked 21:33 martinmorris ? 21:33 martinmorris i'm confused though sorry, you don't mean EVERYTHING under 'items' 21:33 chris and you'll probably want itemcallnumber too 21:33 martinmorris yes it's moaning about those too 21:33 chris then you want holdingbranch and homebranch linked 21:32 chris but if you want to be able to search by branch etc 21:32 chris i think itemnumber is the only one that must be 21:32 chris yeah everything you want linked 21:31 martinmorris so what other items fields is it talking about? everything under items inthe MARC Links page? 21:30 chris yeah all except itemnumber :-) 21:29 martinmorris * and they must all be in the 10 (items) tab 21:29 martinmorris * be mapped to the same tag, 21:29 martinmorris ALL items fields MUST : 21:29 martinmorris the MARC checks are also telling me under the 'item fields' row that: 21:28 chris y 21:28 chris fire awa 21:28 martinmorris one or two more quick questions... 21:28 martinmorris fair enough 21:28 chris id check its not already reported at bugs.koha.org and report it if not 21:28 chris hmm yeah that doesnt sound right 21:26 martinmorris used a few to edit some biblios, but when i search for an authority i know i've used it tells me i've not used it in any biblios, which worries me 21:26 chris ryan might be able to help if he is a bout 21:25 chris i know very little about them 21:25 chris ahh authorities 21:25 martinmorris i've started adding personal name authorities 21:25 martinmorris i've got another little error 21:24 chris yeah, its not the most helpful message 21:24 martinmorris it did confuse me a bit 21:24 chris so when that starts hopefully it will cover gotchas like this 21:24 martinmorris i'll make sure i add that, thank you 21:24 chris at the dev meeting today, we have nearly (if he says yes) appointed a person to look after the FAQ 21:23 chris you could put a bug there saying the error message when doing marc check is misleading 21:23 chris http://bugs.koha.org 21:23 martinmorris is there anywhere i can formaly notify little problems like that i get to help out with future bug fixes and so on? 21:22 chris it should just say ignore in the dropdown if you set it to that, it should stop complaining 21:21 martinmorris ok 21:21 martinmorris -0? 21:21 martinmorris possibly - i'll check 21:21 BrookeatHinsdal cause it should be -0 ignore 21:21 chris (you dont want humans touching that field) 21:21 BrookeatHinsdal did you make that visible>? 21:21 martinmorris my installation is doing a couple of odd things 21:21 chris so you want to then go and make sure 952u is set to ignore 21:21 martinmorris so why might it be complaining? 21:21 chris right 21:21 martinmorris well that's currently mapped to 952u 21:21 martinmorris ah, OK 21:20 chris its actually itemnumber not itemnum ... bad error message that 21:20 martinmorris Links KOHA - MARC DB 21:20 chris then in the dropdown, choose items 21:20 chris if you click on that 21:20 chris there is a link called MARC2Koha links (i think thats what its called) 21:19 chris if you go to systemadministration 21:18 martinmorris but i can't find the itemnum field anywhere 21:18 martinmorris * The correspounding subfield MUST be in with -1 (ignore) tab 21:18 martinmorris * The field itemnum MUST be mapped 21:18 martinmorris says: 21:18 martinmorris i've done a MARC check and got an issue with the itemnum field 21:18 martinmorris evening - got a couple more thicky newbie questions 21:16 kados hehe 21:15 chris that could get old :) 21:13 kados yea 21:13 russel the other roles - i think people are just happy someone does it :-) 21:13 kados *nod* 21:13 chris we have to get more consensus on 21:13 kados just wanted to make sure 21:12 chris like RM and kaitiaki 21:12 kados that was my thought too 21:12 kados yea 21:12 chris the big ones 21:12 chris i think for those roles its ok, unless someone complains 21:12 kados or are we pending a role description and nomitations on list 21:12 russel so i made that change as well 21:12 chris no one else wanted too 21:12 russel ryan - paul suggested intranet2.css instead of san-op 21:12 kados so did we actually decide that russ and chris would fill the roles of documentation and qa managers? 21:04 ryan cool, thx ... hadn't updated in some time 21:04 chris oh yeah i fixed some files there too, so you might have to do a git clean before ur next pull ryan 21:04 ryan was barely navigable a couple days ago 21:03 ryan russel++ for updating the css on that install 21:02 BrookeatHinsdal as in this is the third time I'm trying to get the tub in, so it ought work >:) 21:02 BrookeatHinsdal yup 21:02 ryan 3 is the magic number 21:00 BrookeatHinsdal hey Im in :) 21:00 dewey 3 are in the same building, 3 are in other locations 21:00 kados 3? 21:00 BrookeatHinsdal 3 20:57 kados experimenting with a slightly more friendly style :-) 20:56 chris heya brooke 20:53 ryan i'll give you a new one 20:53 BrookeatHinsdal i'm still getting You entered an incorrect username or password. Please try again. 20:53 ryan i think someone changed the login 20:52 BrookeatHinsdal and that's not working for me either 20:52 BrookeatHinsdal nope 20:52 ryan BrookeatHinsdal: were you using koha2 before ? 20:52 ryan liblime ? 20:52 BrookeatHinsdal and the pass? 20:51 ryan user: koha2 20:50 BrookeatHinsdal Both on a Mac and a PC 20:50 BrookeatHinsdal I noticed it didn't work at all under Safari and IE 20:50 ryan lemme check 20:49 BrookeatHinsdal Yep 20:49 ryan using firefox ? 20:49 kados Bo's having trouble logging into that test instance we set up of 3.0 20:49 kados chris: 20:49 kados ryan: 20:48 kados liblimers around? 20:19 Irma thanks for the good meeting 20:19 kolibrie thanks for letting me listen in 20:17 kados I'll be afk for a hour or so 20:17 kados ok, well now I've got to run 20:17 kolibrie kados: sure 20:17 thd kados: no one is perfectly happy with GPL 3 because of compromises made to avoid forking the code but I am extremely pleased with it 20:17 kados kolibrie: your experience will be valuable, maybe we could get you to comment on our proposed workflow when it's ready to show 20:17 kados cool 20:17 kolibrie kados: mostly use darcs, but some git, avoid CVS 20:16 kados kolibrie: you a git native? 20:16 kados the III users do not have humour :-) 20:16 kolibrie it sounds like I should wait a couple of weeks till the switch to git is made, then get involved 20:16 kados hehe 20:16 paul kados has a lot of humour... 20:16 paul kados has a lot of humous... 20:16 kados paul: hehe, yes :-) 20:15 paul lol : "freedom to innovate" : kados, do you confirm you were speaking to "Innovative Inteface" users ... 20:15 thd goodnight tumer 20:15 kados night tumer 20:15 kados thd: cool, thanks for bringing that up 20:15 tnb night tumer :) 20:15 tumer night all 20:15 kados heh 20:15 thd so my announcement is to encourage people to pay attention to the AGPL V3 comment process at http://gplv3.fsf.org with maybe a month or two left before that is released 20:15 chris cya paul 20:15 kados night paul 20:15 paul have a good day guys. 20:14 kados thanks for attending everyone 20:14 kados we're about 10 minutes over 20:14 kados I think I have to call TIME :-) 20:14 kados thd: so you're happy with GPL v3 now? :-) 20:14 thd I called people the day before release for clarification 20:13 kados it's image-heavy 20:13 kados hehe, sorry :-) 20:13 paul 11MB ! wow, huge... 20:13 kados thd: cool 20:13 thd kados: yes it was fixed because the bug was seen by people at the Software Freedom Law Center but it had made it into a draft which should not have happened 20:13 kados you can find my presentation there now, they uploaded it :-) 20:13 kados http://www.macalester.edu/mniug/index.html 20:12 paul since 2 days unless i'm mistaken 20:12 paul kados : yep 20:11 kados thd: is GPLv3 final? 20:11 kados oh yea, that might be it 20:11 thd there have been some anomalies introduced in later drafts of GPL/AGPL 3 20:11 tnb tumer: i think the 'performance' you refer to might be kados' presentation as keynote speaker at the III user group in US :) 20:11 tumer like you may omit the accents and still find a record and also the fuzzy search 20:10 paul multinlingual search not supported ? what does it mean ? 20:10 tnb tumer: cool 20:10 kados tumer: *nod* 20:10 thd GPL 3 came a little too close for my comfort to coming out with a major bug in the last sentence in section 13 20:10 tumer a sales pitch:Millenium does not support multilingual search like Koha, thats how we got the parliament to install Koha if anyones interested 20:09 kados thd: go for it :-) 20:08 thd I have an announcement 20:08 paul ok 20:08 kados paul: demos, chairs, etc. 20:08 kados paul: it's an exhibit space 20:08 paul booth ??? 20:08 tnb it's alive again , strangely :) 20:08 kados tnb's camera died 20:08 tnb but i think one of our booth partners did 20:08 kados owen: i think Carl did, I'll have to ask him for a few 20:08 tnb owen: my camera was behaving badly 20:07 kados and it's been almost a week 20:07 thd :) 20:07 owen kados, did anyone get pictures? 20:07 tnb *TNB can testify to ALA business :) 20:07 chris tumer: thats good to hear :) 20:07 kados thd: yea, it was very busy 20:07 thd tumer: the LibLime booth was swamped every time I looked especially the second day 20:07 kados I think the new koha.org should include better capability to write case studies 20:06 tumer they say we are giving them a real pain 20:06 kados paul: yea, agreed 20:06 paul because when looking for new customers, success stories are important. 20:06 paul maybe we should share more our success. 20:06 kados tumer: mabe that's the performance :-) 20:06 kados tumer: well, I was at an exhibit there 20:06 tumer sorry i thought it was you KOHA2s performane 20:06 kados tumer: congrats 20:05 kados tumer: wow, that's great news 20:05 chris wooo hoo great news tumer 20:05 kados hehe 20:05 paul we have 9 kados, so it's not a surprise ... 20:05 tumer its installed 20:05 tumer 2 koha vs Millenium is 1 nil at parliament 20:05 paul hehe... 20:05 kados tumer: my performance? 20:05 russel lol 20:05 kados hehe 20:05 tumer 1 Millenium rep is upset about kados's performace at ALA 20:05 kados thd: that should be documented in the new installer when it's written 20:04 tumer 2 good news 20:04 kados thd: you wanna take that task on? 20:03 kados thd: saw that note in your email 20:03 thd kados: we should look into the Koha dependencies to see if there is anything which is GPL 2 only 20:03 kados thd: drat, we almost made our goal of 1 hour :-) 20:02 thd yes 20:02 kados anyone have anything further to discuss? 20:02 paul thd : ok 20:02 thd paul: No, I will forward that section to you 20:01 paul thd : I was cc: ? 20:01 thd paul: no I sent it too him privately in response to his question to me about what was the best web based MARC record editor 20:01 kados I'd like to see how it sticks first 20:00 paul about GPL v3 : does someone think we should investigate moving to GPL 3 ? 20:00 paul thd : nope. on koha-devel ? 20:00 kados everyone have two weeks from now available, same time, same place (not Paul I think) 20:00 kados speaking of which 20:00 kados I think everything else on the agenda will have to wait until next meeting 19:59 kados if no-one starts one in the next couple days I'll do it 19:59 thd paul: did you see what I wrote to Frédéric about keyboard navigation in the record editor? 19:59 kados with the new information 19:59 kados and it'd be good to get a thread going about this again 19:59 kados I'm not sure we need to make any decisions today, just mainly awareness raising 19:59 kados section 5 is the summary section 19:59 kados thanks to thd for taking time to put that together 19:58 kados http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/koha-devel/2007-07/msg00001.html 19:58 kados is the copyright stuff 19:58 kados minus paul 19:58 kados ok, the last thing we probably ahve time for 19:57 tnb ok, just trying to keep up-to-date :) 19:57 paul tnd : nope. should be in september (they have some funding problems) 19:57 kados hehe 19:57 dewey good news is, like, that search?q=callnum works now. :) 19:57 kados paul: good news 19:56 tnb do they have a url? 19:56 paul mmm... partially : the new html is much small, so it should be faster. 19:56 tnb paul: is SAN-OP live on the internet now? 19:56 thd paul: so you are fixing the speed problems? 19:55 paul (1st library using koha 3.0 in France. Heavy cataloguing...) 19:55 paul Institut Protestant de Théologie 19:55 kados I may be missinformed, I heard it from someone else 19:55 dewey IPT is probably using the CVS version atm, and did not report any problem 19:55 thd paul: IPT? 19:55 paul (mmm... I mean all the problems she reported have been solved now ;-) ) 19:55 paul kados : IPT is using the CVS version atm, and did not report any problem 19:54 kados cool 19:54 paul just investigating that it works with hide_marc=ON, adv_editor=ON and other specific systemprefs 19:54 paul works pretty well alreday 19:54 ryan or did i misread you? 19:54 paul we should commit the stuff in the next 2 days. 19:54 ryan paul: did you suggest that things are recently broken in HEAD ? 19:54 kados IIRC, currently the MARC editor isnt' working in HEAD 19:53 kados how will that work affect the release 19:53 kados paul: is that being worked on? 19:53 kados I think there was talk about improvements to the marc editor by toins? 19:53 kados definitely! 19:52 paul much more easy than the previous installer ! 19:52 paul I think it can really be easy, as it just have to rely on the tech part. 19:52 kados any other things we absolutely need before we do a developers/beta release? 19:52 kados paul: *nod* 19:52 paul ) 19:52 kados I'll see if we can get slef to commit to writing the installer 19:52 paul (as I don't need your release to already have 2 -3 at the end of the week- libraries running CVS-3.0 ! 19:52 kados so lets try to release something before hdl goes on vacation 19:51 kados ok 19:51 paul and you don't need me to release something ! 19:51 paul hdl will be here 3 more weeks. 19:51 paul no I didn't expect that. 19:51 kados hehe 19:51 kados 6 days :-) 19:51 paul in France : ppl don't have time in May because 1st, 8th, ascension, pentecote are closed days. july august is off too because of holidays, september is wrong because of school new year, christmas is wrong because it's christmas. 19:50 kados paul: s/you want/you want us to try / 19:50 kados paul: so do you want to try to do a release before jul 8? 19:50 Irma will find out. No worries. 19:49 Irma I wonder if Pascale Nalon (re help with translations) will also take holidays in July 19:49 kados so I figure we do alpha release near christmas time, beta in the summer, and stable in fall, maybe 19:49 kados because people don't have time then :-) 19:49 kados we should try to avoid doing a stable release anywhere near christmas 19:49 kados one thing is, if we switch to time-based releases (as I proposed last meeting) 19:49 paul and hdl from jul 22 to aug 5 19:48 kados important information :-) 19:48 kados wow 19:48 paul i'll be on holiday from jul, 8 to jul,28 19:48 kados then, two months of testing and another release in sept 19:48 paul just 1 information : 19:47 kados paul: i'd like to release something this month 19:47 kados but I'm meeting with him later today, so I can ask what his timeline is 19:47 paul kados : what timeline would we have for this stuff ? 19:47 kados and slef's not here to defend himself 19:47 kados I think chris is right that the installer should take precidence 19:47 thd kados: we have one of those do we not? 19:47 kados I'll speak more on this soon 19:46 kados to make it easy to develop according to our 'standard' 19:46 kados I want to put together a design guidebook for developers 19:46 kados paul: some layout changes 19:46 kados paul: I think mostly css and menu 19:46 paul s/deeply/deep/ 19:46 paul mostly css & menu, or more deeply changes ? 19:45 kados chris: true 19:45 kados alpha, beta, stable 19:45 chris ppl will try and use it 19:45 chris if you call it beta 19:45 kados last time I proposed a three phase release cycle 19:45 paul what kind of redesign do you want kados ? 19:45 chris the first beta could be with the interface redesign 19:45 kados ahh 19:45 chris id call it developers release 19:45 kados s/interfaces/interface redesign/ 19:45 chris i wouldnt call it beta 19:45 kados chris: so maybe we could do the beta without interfaces 19:44 kados chris: that makes sense 19:44 kados thd: I'll have to defer my comments until my thoughts are better organized, maybe next dev meeting 19:44 chris then next round interface 19:44 thd kados: what functional concerns do you have for the intranet aside from preferences organisation? 19:44 kados paul: both :-) 19:44 paul one more than the other ? 19:44 kados paul: both :-) 19:43 kados I can talk more about that at the next meeting when i have my thoughts better organized 19:43 paul opac and/or librarian interface ? 19:43 chris i think for the developers release .. we need the installer 19:43 kados function and form 19:43 kados thd: both 19:43 thd kados: are your concerns functional or more aesthetic? 19:43 kados hehe 19:43 paul exactly what I suspected ;-) 19:42 kados paul: it's a slang that means 'thing that bothers me' 19:42 kados and I've been working with our graphics designer to put together some mockups 19:42 paul (even if I know what you're meaning I think !) 19:42 kados I went to the book store over the weekend and got a bunch of interface design books 19:42 paul pet peeve : another word I don't understand 19:41 kados my personal pet peeve is the interface design 19:41 kados paul: right 19:41 tumer chris>:thanks 19:41 chris if we want 19:41 paul but the tech part don't exist at all ! 19:41 chris tumer: so we can tidy it up to be more like installed 19:41 kados paul: agreed 19:41 paul the librarian part (web) is working, although it has to be filled a little bit more 19:41 chris tumer: git allows us to move files around without losing history 19:41 kados it's the initial system install that's the weak spot I think 19:41 kados the web one isn't bad 19:41 kados installer is still weak I think 19:41 paul yes : the installer ! 19:40 kados paul: yes 19:40 kados I think slef worked on the installer a bit 19:40 paul in koha 3.0 ? 19:40 tumer chris:are you keeping the folder structure same or like installed? 19:40 kados paul: do you have anything that is a show stopper for you currently? 19:40 thd what would be done with Savannah at that point? 19:40 paul ok for koha 3.0 beta 19:40 paul just need to find time to learn git all at the same time. but with the wiki page that will be easy ;-) 19:40 kados ok, so beta of 3.0? 19:40 chris yup 19:40 paul yep. and once it's done, it's done. 19:39 kados probably less overhead that way 19:39 paul I think I prefer a big bang too 19:39 chris i think a big bang 19:39 kados chris: have any thoughts? 19:39 kados paul: good question 19:38 paul just a question about git : do we plan a "big bang" (ie : at date X, nobody uses CVS anymore) or a smooth move (a tool report CVS => git and git => cvs) ? 19:38 chris i think its a pretty sweet plan, and we can post the link to the devel list when its ready for comment 19:38 kados I'd really really really like to get this out in July 19:38 kados ok, so 3.0 beta release 19:38 kados sounds good 19:38 chris we now have a clear idea of how it might work, so lets write it up, and get some more feedback 19:38 kados 'give us another two weeks to figure it out' :-) 19:38 thd page? 19:38 chris given all the discussion we have had recently 19:37 kados yea 19:37 chris i think we need to finish our page 19:37 kados maybe just a status update 19:37 kados hehe 19:37 chris i think no :) 19:37 kados chris, you wanna talk about git? 19:37 kados I think 19:37 kados ok, so we can move on 19:36 kados ahh, good one russel 19:36 russel i think rach wrote that a while back faq a while back 19:36 kados same with documentation manager 19:36 kados I think that we do have one officially, but just not an active one :-) 19:36 russel so the only public descripton for kaitiaki is - http://www.koha.org/about-koha/faq.html#faq19 19:36 [K] <dbs@FreeNode> Not guaranteeing it will get you anyone, but it might help... 19:35 kados not for a while anyway 19:35 paul I don't think either 19:35 kados dbs: good idea 19:35 paul [K]: ++ 19:35 kados dbs: no, don't think we have 19:35 [K] <dbs@FreeNode> Have you put out a call for kaitiaki, explaining the role and the commitment? 19:35 paul but if you want me to continue I can. 19:35 kados thd: good points 19:35 thd kados: you need someone who is fully committed for that role and not merely has time 19:35 paul so, we won't have any interest in 2.2 and I think I will bo a poor job 19:35 russel ah righto - fair enough then 19:34 paul russel: If I'm wondering wether i should not resign, it's because we plan to migrate all my customers to koha 3 in the next months. 19:34 kados russel: as part of the descriptions, maybe we could talk about a time committment (both in terms of hours/week and a 'term' expectation, like maybe 1 year or something?) 19:34 kados Kaitiaki is a big role to fill, it'd be good if we could find a librarian who was invested in the project, and who had lots of time to stay involved 19:34 paul toins will leave for 8 months to : get married and finish it's school 19:34 russel (just a suggestion) 19:33 russel can we convince hdl to take over the 2.2 maintainers role? 19:33 paul (for the same reason as me) 19:33 paul maybe for hdl, but not the kaitiaki one i think 19:33 paul I already said that I'm a developper, and not native english speaker, so i'm not the person we're looking for... 19:33 kados paul: maybe hdl/toins would like a bigger project role? 19:32 kados I'd love to have more people outside liblime get active, we just need to find some more people somewhere :-) 19:32 russel and we can't twist pate's arm again ;-) 19:32 chris nope 19:32 thd chris: yet none of the developers have time do they? 19:32 kados chris: right 19:32 chris and outside liblime would be good too, as paul points out we are in a lot of the positions already 19:31 Irma OK 19:31 kados Irma: that'd be very helpful 19:31 chris ideally the kaitiaki would not be one of the developers 19:31 russel and ask for nominations 19:31 Irma I will start with the release note translations for Koha 3.0 if you like. 19:31 russel do up a role description for the website 19:31 kados yea 19:31 russel maybe cast the net a bit wider to the main list 19:31 kados one thing I'd like to do is draw in more users 19:30 chris i think we need to find people who are interested 19:30 kados 9_kadoses++ 19:30 paul owen: ++++ 19:30 kados hehe 19:30 chris for the big one kaitiaki 19:30 owen If we had 9 kadoses, we'd get a lot more done 19:30 kados paul: yea, they need translations 19:30 paul sounds right too. except if we continue we will have a 90% liblime team... 19:30 kados :-) 19:30 kados kados == 9 19:30 kados hehe 19:29 chris ignore the 9 :) 19:29 paul I'm speaking of plone internal strings here. For example, i've 3accueil as 1st item on the left, then members and all other links are in english ;-) ) 19:29 kados yep, sounds right to me 19:29 chris qa -> chris, translation -> kados 9 (for now), faq -> jaron maybe, docs -> russ 19:29 chris ok so summary 19:29 kados paul: you'd be able to translate easily every page on koha.org 19:28 kados plone's translation framework is pretty nice 19:28 thd paul: all pages should be in every language which would be easier to manage with something like Plone which has built in internationalisation support 19:28 russel ok so i am putting my hand up for doc manager (or at least assisting with documentation) 19:25 thd russel: I have python scripts for managing FAQs in Zope 19:24 russel http://new.koha.org:8080/koha/documentation 19:24 russel ahh there is as part of the help center product we have been playing with 19:23 russel sorry there must be... 19:23 russel must be an FAQ manager for plone 19:23 thd paul I have a scheme for one in Zope 19:23 paul something quick & easy to use I mean 19:23 russel i think the move to plone for the website will help there 19:23 paul do we have any tool that could help us feeding the FAQ ? 19:22 jaron kados: will do. 19:22 kados jaron: maybe you can let us know next dev meeting? 19:22 kados jaron: sounds good 19:21 jaron let me step back and think about it. I can't contribute code right now, but might be able to do FAQ work. 19:21 paul russel: ++ 19:21 chris yay 19:21 russel there is alot of good stuff in the mailing list archives that could go into FAQ 19:20 russel i guess it would be the job of the FAQ manager to poll the community and see what is required 19:20 kados jaron: interested in being our FAQ Manager? 19:20 chris yes to both 19:20 jaron Is this the only FAQ right now and are you looking for more technical matters like installation to be answered there? http://www.koha.org/about-koha/faq.html 19:20 kados sounds good 19:19 russel sounds like QA is sorted then? 19:17 chris yes i may go insane, but its a risk im willing to take :-) 19:17 paul s/RM/QA/ 19:17 paul (was a joke, I fully agree, of course ;-) ) 19:17 chris hehe 19:16 ryan chris++ 19:16 russel kiwi slang :-) 19:16 russel have a go 19:16 chris if no one else wants to :_ 19:16 paul take a crack at QA ??? 19:16 chris im willing to take a crack at QA 19:15 paul so QA and doc manager ? 19:15 chris but i think for the kaitiaki might need a bit of process/formality ? 19:15 kados (very boring) :-) 19:15 chris i think thats of for some of the roles (translation manager, faq manager etc) 19:15 paul which is a -believe me- long and boring process... 19:15 kados thd: what paul said :-) 19:14 paul thd : because you have to validate translations, export them manually, re-run the translation tool, then test the result 19:14 kados for selecting people, my feeling is that if someone is willing to devote the time it will take to fill the role, they should have their turn 19:14 thd kados: why does more languages increase the difficulty? 19:14 tumer hi paul 19:14 paul hi tumer 19:14 tumer hi all 19:14 paul I know, I already faced the problem with 1 language, so I understand what it can be for x0 ... 19:14 kados hi tumer , welcome 19:13 kados chris: good point 19:13 chris i guess stepping back we have to decide on what the process is for selecting people 19:13 kados I don't mind continnuing, I like languages, but I will just be slow at it :-) 19:13 kados but with so many languages now it's hard :-) 19:13 paul nope, sorry... 19:13 kados yea, I do it manually 19:13 paul because I did it for french and it was manual 19:13 kados paul: do you? 19:13 kados paul: not a complete one 19:12 paul do you have a tool to do kartouche => koha CVS moves ? 19:12 thd I have a plan to update my Koha FAQ for a manageable system in Zope but have not had time to work on Koha specifically lately 19:12 paul ah, ok. I remember I had to send you some updates/improvements I did on kartouche... 19:12 kados paul: because otherwise there could be conflicts and inconcistancies due to limitations in kartouche 19:12 kados paul: but I feel strongly it should be one person 19:12 kados paul: yes, but I can grant it to anyone who wants the job 19:11 paul don't you need an admin access to translations.koha.org to add new translations ? 19:11 kados russel: don't think so, no 19:11 kados I think the important ones, that we might actually have people for atm are Documentation Manager and QA Manager 19:11 russel do we have role descriptions? 19:11 kados :-) 19:11 kados but I can continue to do a bad job until someone says they want to take it on 19:11 kados but doing a bad job of it as I haven't had much time 19:11 kados so Translations Manager I've been serving as 19:10 Irma Bonjour and good morning 19:10 kados Irma: we're on point #2 Open Positions in the COmmunity) 19:10 kados Irma: (we're working off of this agenda: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=meetingnotes07july02) 19:10 paul hi Irma (our french => english translator ?) 19:10 kados welcome Irma 19:10 kados we can set them up with creds to do that 19:10 kados if anyone knows of anyone interested in combing through our lists and adding FAQ to the website 19:09 kados basically, I'm bringing it up to raise awareness 19:09 kados FAQ Manager 19:09 kados I'll start with least :-) 19:09 paul what 1st ? 19:08 paul (I'm the 2.2 RM) 19:08 kados paul: :-) 19:08 kados agenda: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=meetingnotes07july02 (we're on Open Positions in the Community) 19:08 paul and our 2.2 Release Maintainer is asking himself if he should not resign from this position... 19:08 kados welcome pecisk 19:08 kados and two new positions are clearly necessary at this stage: Translations Manager and FAQ Manager 19:08 kados we lost our QA Manager 19:08 kados same goes with Documentation Manager 19:08 kados we've been without an active Kaitiaki for a while 19:07 kados so first order of business is Open Positions in the Community - 15 minutes 19:07 WPL I'll msg him ans see if he's free 19:07 kados WPL: yea 19:07 kados anyone have oper privs can +o me? 19:07 WPL are you having a dev conf right now 19:07 kados http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=meetingnotes07july02 19:07 kados ok, here's our agenda: 19:07 kados WPL: that'd be great 19:07 kados cool 19:06 kados kolibrie: hehe, noted 19:06 kados we'll skip introductions, other than to say welcome to WPL (is it Bart?) and kolibrie 19:06 paul hdl won't come with us : he's afk, teaching Koha todays and tomorrow 19:06 WPL I should see if I can get my buddy Aaron involved. He used to work with my at the library and hates III and how much these guys charge. He's a big Ruby programmer and loves OSS 19:06 kolibrie kados: I'm trying to just listen, remember? 19:06 kados that's a quorum 19:06 kados ok, and I know chris and russ are around 19:05 kados kolibrie: we'll put you to work :-) 19:05 kados kolibrie: wow, stick around :-) 19:05 kados heh 19:05 paul for US guys : i'm from France and it's 9Pm here. and for newbies : i've one baby that is 4 months old and sometime has small nights... 19:05 WPL I just really wish these OSS ILS programs would take off. I"m so sick of these companies fleecing us for bad products and horrid support 19:04 kados paul: noted, I'll do my best :-) 19:04 dewey here is an example record that is generating 3 items: http://www.pastebin.ca/406676 19:04 kados who's here? 19:04 kados so I guess first order of business is roll call 19:04 kados ok, well it's about that time 19:03 kados yea 19:03 WPL well ALA is more for them... 19:03 kados no, it's atually fun to chat with librarians 19:03 kados just don't tell the librarians :-) 19:03 kados for me too :-) 19:03 WPL jk 19:03 kados *nod* 19:03 WPL I'm the IT guy... to many library people there 19:02 kados hehe 19:02 WPL ahh.. someone from the library may have been but I don't go to those things... 19:02 kados were you at ALA? 19:02 kados cool 19:02 WPL We where planning on calling you when things settle down a bit 19:02 WPL oh hey Josh.. got your phone call. 19:02 [K] *** part FreeNode!#koha: rangi n=chris@203-118-134-114.netspace.net.nz 19:02 kados kados == Joshua Ferraro 19:01 kados oh, hi there :-) 19:01 WPL Westerville Ohio, USA 19:01 kados WPL: how about you? 19:01 kados cool 19:01 kolibrie kados: Fairfax, VA 19:01 kados kolibrie: welcome, where are you coming from? 19:01 WPL well.. a couple years ago we would have never considered another ILS but ears are starting to bend now 19:00 kolibrie kados: just thought I'd listen in 19:00 kados paul: it's pronounced 'tripple I' here in the US sometimes 19:00 paul koha is much better :-D 19:00 kados kolibrie: you here for the developers' meeting? 19:00 paul yes, I know it. 19:00 paul it's known as millenium in france 19:00 kados paul: they're one of the major US ILS companies 19:00 WPL $$ 19:00 paul ok. 19:00 WPL Millennium 19:00 kados paul: Innovative Interfaces Inc. 19:00 kolibrie hi 19:00 kados hi kolibrie 19:00 paul lll ? 19:00 kados ahh, cool 18:59 WPL using III right now 18:59 WPL no... just intrested in OSS ILS 18:59 kados WPL: you here for the developers' meeting? 18:59 kados WPL: welcome :-) 18:59 kados hi WPL 18:59 dewey what's up, WPL 18:59 WPL hello 18:56 kados hi WPL 18:53 kados about 10 minutes out, to the dev meeting I suppose 18:53 kados hey russel 18:52 chris hi russ 18:52 russel hi everyon 17:57 chris be an afternoon nap for me i think :) 17:57 [K] <dbs@FreeNode> ugh 17:56 chris well he woke up at 4, then went back to sleep, but i havent been able to 17:56 [K] <dbs@FreeNode> chris - you can't sleep, or your son isn't sleeping? 17:52 chris heya 17:51 kados hey chris 17:45 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: rangi n=chris@203-118-134-114.netspace.net.nz 17:07 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: dbs n=dan@bas4-sudbury98-1279295098.dsl.bell.ca 16:48 kados owen++ 16:48 kados owen: thanks! 16:48 kados owen: looks good, all errors fixed except for the non-ascii ones I'll have to troubleshoot later 16:46 owen Okay kados, try again (crafty devils) 16:40 thd thanks 16:40 kados thd: excellent summary! 16:30 kados moremember.tmp and authorities.tmpl 16:30 kados well, two 16:30 kados I think that's the last one 16:30 kados oremember.tmpl: line 162: Probably missing whitespace before or missing quotation mark near: checked="checkedxgettext.pl: Warning: authorities.tmpl: line 30: Probably missing whitespace before or missing quotation mark near: detail.pl?authidd=<!-- TMPL_VAR name="duplicateuthid" -->&popup=1", "Duplicate Authority"); return false;" 16:30 kados muuch better 16:26 owen Okay kados, try again 16:04 kados owen: much better 16:01 owen kados: I committed more corrections following your update to bug 1366. 16:00 thd kados: yes of course 16:00 kados thd: I assume it's a topic we'll have to discuss more than once? 16:00 kados thd: think we can keep it to 15 minutes? 16:00 kados i must have forgotten to add it 15:59 thd kados: I thought that it was tabled from the last meeting to this one so why not? 15:59 kados thd: should I add it? 15:58 kados http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=meetingnotes07july02 15:58 kados :-) 15:58 kados copyright isn't on the agenda 15:58 kados actually ... 15:58 kados people probably don't remember the agenda for the meeting 15:58 kados might be good to state that explicitly 15:58 kados and there's also no mention of the purpose of the document 15:58 thd ok 15:57 kados yea, I'd recommend it 15:57 thd kados: should I post a new message asking people to read at least section 5 before the meeting? 15:57 kados yep 15:57 thd kados: section 1 points to section 5 15:57 kados :-) 15:56 thd kados: the summary is in section 5 15:56 kados thd: a summary email might be a good idea 15:56 kados thd: probably not :-) 15:56 thd kados: I assume people will read enough to get through section 1 15:56 paul I think i'm fine with the french law. but i'll be able to check that i'm not wrong if I need thx to this doc ;-) 15:55 thd kados: that is right at the end of section 1 15:55 kados thd: perhaps a email explaining that would be good 15:55 thd paul: however, then you will miss all the quotations from French law and comparisons with other legal systems 15:54 thd paul: if you read only section 5 you will have the most important information 15:54 kados you're right 15:54 kados 3 hours and 10 minutes :-) 15:54 kados wait 15:53 kados paul: 4 hours I think 15:53 paul it will be hard to have ppl reading it before the meeting i'm afraid ! 15:53 thd yes 15:53 paul the meeting is in 3 hours right ? 15:53 thd paul: the hope is to clarify deep confusion over copyright law which I saw earlier in the thread and warn against potential risks in treatment of copyright 15:52 kados paul: it's to add to the discussion abotu how to annotate copyright, and to inform koha developers what the laws are so we can make informed decisions 15:52 thd kados: including the part where under French law you can withdraw from an assignment 15:52 paul what's the goal of this document ? 15:52 kados I think that could be an excellent starting point for a koha.org statement on copyright 15:51 paul thd : wow... what a huge doc... 15:51 kados I glanced at them :-) 15:51 thd kados: I guess you missed the multilingual parts 15:50 thd kados: I have the FSF contract for how they have done that in the past 15:50 kados thanks for taking the time to create that doc 15:50 kados well done thd! 15:49 kados contributions. " 15:49 kados trusted entity with a grant back of rights for authors' own individual 15:49 kados authorship for software projects is to have copyright assignments to a 15:49 kados "The only way to resolve the problems of the category of multiple 15:49 kados this section s interesting: 15:48 kados now even 15:48 kados I'm reading section 5now 15:47 thd kados: you should encourage people to at least read section 5 before the meeting 15:47 thd kados: I compressed 3 days work into a day and a half to write that 15:46 kados thd: I'll read it asap 15:46 kados thd: yes, thanks! 15:45 thd kados: have you seen my message on koha-devel? 15:36 CGI424 I am updating their MARC records over the next two weeks. I love summer vacation. 15:35 CGI424 I have an extra school districct in Alaska that should be online before fall. 15:35 kados cool 15:35 CGI424 I am working on getting the word out. I want a lot more school libraries to look into it. 15:35 kados but such is life in a OSS app :-) 15:35 CGI424 I do like the libwebcats, I forgot about it. 15:34 kados there are a lot more libraries using it that aren't listed 15:34 kados CGI424: the libwebcats advanced search lets you pick just Koha as an option 15:34 CGI424 Thanks I know that site. 15:34 jaron http://www.librarytechnology.org/libwebcats/ 15:34 kados CGI424: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=kohausers 15:34 CGI424 can get to that one. 15:34 CGI424 I will try there, I know that Saugus California school district put it in place last year, but I can 15:34 kados libwebcats i think it's called 15:33 kados also, might wanna try Marshall Breeding's ILS site 15:33 kados wiki.koha.org probably has some listed 15:33 kados hi CGI424 15:32 CGI424 Hi all, I am looking for schools that are using Koha, is there a list somewhere 15:30 kados owen: thanks for the updates, I'm testing them now 15:29 kados apt-get install idzebra 15:29 kados apt-get install yaz-doc 15:29 kados apt-get install libyaz-dev 15:29 kados then do apt-get update 15:29 kados add that to /etc/apt/sources.list 15:29 kados deb-src http://ftp.indexdata.dk/debian indexdata/sarge released 15:28 kados deb http://ftp.indexdata.dk/debian indexdata/sarge released 15:28 kados # for Yaz Toolkit 15:28 kados foxnorth: 14:33 [K] *** part FreeNode!#koha: dbs n=dan@pdpc/supporter/active/denials 14:32 foxnorth do i remember that you guys had gotten save.pl to work in opencataloger? 14:32 foxnorth hey toins-- 14:28 toins hello foxnorth 14:28 foxnorth hey paul! 14:22 paul hello from france foxnorth 14:21 foxnorth hey kados-- good to be back :) 14:20 kados hey foxnorth 14:18 CGI572 hhh 14:02 paul ??? 14:02 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: dbs n=dan@pdpc/supporter/active/denials 13:38 kados bbiab 13:38 kados yea, suspected that 13:18 owen Man, label-home.tmpl is a real beast 12:43 kados same error if I change to UTF-8 12:43 kados nope 12:42 paul kados is discovering the pain I have with the french translation in latin1 in koha 2.2 ... 12:41 paul (not sure, but probably) 12:41 paul default to utf-8 automatically, it should solve the problem 12:41 paul Can't determine original templates' charset, defaulting to ISO-8859-1 12:41 paul probably due to : 12:40 kados paul: what about the multibyte sequence errors? 12:38 kados right 12:38 paul just a little bit more verbose, but maybe easier to read 12:37 paul if equivalent and valid 12:37 paul <!-- /tmpl_if --> 12:37 paul <input > 12:37 paul <!-- tmpl_else --> 12:37 paul <input CHECKED > 12:37 paul because <!-- tmpl_if ... --> 12:37 paul and i've fixed all of them in head 12:37 paul maybe. It's harmless 12:37 kados that's too bad 12:36 kados ahh 12:36 paul is INVALID for the parser 12:36 kados looks the same for default 12:36 paul if INVALID 12:36 paul <input type="xxx" value="XXX" <!-- tmpl_if name="checked" --> checked<!-- /TMPL_IF -->> 12:36 paul it's the classic <tmpl_if> inside a html tag 12:35 paul hehe... 12:35 kados owen: http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1366 12:35 kados paul: http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1366 12:31 paul kados: ok 12:26 kados paul: I'll paste the error into bugzilla, its large 12:23 kados paul: sorry, on this box I have to install Locale::PO, and cpan is slow 12:23 owen Hi kados 12:23 kados morning owen 12:16 kados for me it fails, let me find the error 12:15 paul nope 12:15 kados paul: have you tried running the translation script for rel_2_2 intranet lately? 12:15 kados paul: while you're present, quick question 12:14 kados agreed 12:12 paul I think we should let "prog" as it is, and, at the very end of validation just copy/paste/modify to the 3 specific templates. because if we "fork" the templates today, we will forget to report any bugfix/minor improvements to one of them, 99% sure... 12:11 kados so now we just need to agree on the default for prog ;-) 12:10 paul 1 point to kados. 12:10 paul and very very easy to implement 12:10 kados and only modifs were stored in public/en 12:10 paul sounds a VERY GOOD IDEA 12:10 kados prog/en 12:10 kados special/en 12:10 kados academic/en 12:10 kados public/en 12:09 kados so what if we had: 12:09 kados our templates 'override' themselves 12:09 kados actually 12:09 kados hmmm 12:08 kados other than separate templates :/ 12:08 kados it's difficult to imagine how to do it though 12:07 kados yea 12:07 paul and I suspect it could be usefull at some other places 12:07 paul but I like the academic/public/special idea 12:07 paul using the itemtype.summary feature. 12:07 paul note that if we discard the table view, we could have something that can be setup as the library want without any new code. 12:06 kados yea! 12:06 paul or, best of all : an XSLT ;-) 12:05 kados so 'academic' (looks like tumer's), 'public' (looks like NPL), 'special' (loooks like IPT) 12:05 kados what we need, are profiles 12:05 kados hmmm 12:04 kados just not the public ones 12:04 kados some libraries here too 12:04 kados yep 12:04 paul in a specialised library like IPT (& most of my customers I think), location & callnumber is a real + for users 12:04 kados so it's the old tabular approach 12:04 kados right 12:04 paul search chaos 12:04 kados yep, location and call number aren't included 12:04 paul http://catalogue.iptheologie.fr/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl 12:03 kados so that means 1 copy at MPL 12:03 paul but no location & callnumber 12:03 paul yep. 12:03 kados you see that? 12:03 kados Meadville Public Library (1) 12:03 paul is it ccfls specific or you want it like that for everybody ? 12:02 paul I see only the branch. 12:02 paul http://catalog.ccfls.org/search?idx=&q=chaos 12:01 paul let me see how you've solved it at npl & ccfls 12:01 kados how can we resolve it? :-) 12:01 paul but I'm for a solution that is clear for everybody 12:01 kados right 12:01 paul I'm strongly against a system pref, or we will have zillions of such systemprefs. 12:01 paul kados : hi