IRC log for #koha, 2006-03-03

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:20 |hdl| hi kados
12:21 |hdl| hi owen
12:22 owen Hi hdl
12:22 |hdl| kados : my new overduenotice would send mail twice. On for borowers'branch" and one for default branch if a default policy is defined.
12:32 owen Is everyone else getting a bunch of duplicate mailings from Koha-cvs?
12:40 kados yea, it looks like it to me
12:40 kados there are definitely major mailing list probs at savannah
12:40 kados some messages posted to koha-devel about 4 days ago haven't made it through yet
12:41 kados |hdl|: congrats on the new home :-)
12:41 kados |hdl|: any pics?
12:42 |hdl| not yet :) Still working on latest touch and on getting my office in our home.
12:58 kados btw: I committed what I think is a fully bug free MARChtml2xml subroutine this morning
12:58 kados I believe for the first time ever we have a valid MARC editor :-)
13:04 thd hooraaay
13:04 thd great work kados and chris
13:06 thd kados: are you there?
13:07 kados thd: yep
13:09 kados thd: thanks for your email re: cataloger's desktop content
13:10 kados I'll wait a couple of days to see if I hear back from them
13:10 kados if I don't I'll ping you for those emails :-)
14:59 owen kados: did you get a chance to look at that javascript I mentioned last night?
15:22 kados owen: I didn't ... could you give me the link again?
15:23 kados thd: are you there?
15:23 owen Heres the page that has an example of it:[…]markup-javascript
15:24 owen And this I think is the official write-up:[…]ticles/cbs-events
15:24 kados ooh, that does look nice
15:25 kados esp for the MARC editor
15:25 owen I don't fully understand it, but it looks very useful for instances where we want more than one onload event
15:25 kados yea ...
15:26 kados my personal preference is to test the method
15:26 kados like the OPAC does
15:27 kados I don't have any clients using browsers other than firefox on the Intranet
15:27 kados so I'm kinda ok with firefox-specific stuff there
15:27 kados and eventually, the Intranet will probably be a firefox plugin anyeay
15:27 kados anyway even
15:30 kados does that make sense? or am I missing the point? :)
15:37 owen Like I said, I don't really fully understand what the addEvent function does in the small details, because it's a little over my head.
15:37 owen I'm not sure the advantages of it vs. your kohajs() function
15:49 kados thd: I've got a question for you if you're around
15:50 thd yes kados
15:52 thd kados: I am here
15:52 kados thd: I've got a client who has some records in an excell spreadsheet (title, author, etc)
15:52 kados thd: and they are interested in doing conversion on them to full MARC records (properly cataloged, etc.)
15:53 thd kados: That sounds like fun
15:53 kados thd: i know I could probably find a jobber to do this ... but thought you might be interested
15:53 thd kados: how many records are there
15:53 thd ?
15:53 kados thd: less than 1000 I think
15:55 thd kados: are they too obscure to be in LC, MELVYL, etc.?
15:56 kados thd: 90% of them will be
15:56 kados but there may be a few that will require original cataloging
15:57 kados thd: I think you should propose a pricing structure to me
15:57 kados thd: based on whether the record is known or requires original cataloging
15:57 kados thd: if you're interested
15:58 kados thd: ie, X ammount if the record can be downloaded, Y amount if it must be cataloged from scratch
15:58 thd kados: we could script the 90% and try to do a better job than your previous script had done.
15:58 thd kados: What level of cataloguing do they need?
15:59 kados thd: they don't know the first thing about it
15:59 thd kados: Do they already have call numbers?
15:59 kados thd: so you'd need to make a recommendation
15:59 kados thd: don't think so
16:00 thd kados: Do they want call numbers?
16:00 kados I assume yes
16:00 kados it would be part of this job to make recommendations about this to them
16:00 kados as an agent of LibLime :-)
16:00 kados (a secret agent I might add :-))
16:00 thd kados: LCC, DDC, UDC, or something else?
16:01 kados thd: you'd have to pick one I think, but I suspect DDC
16:02 thd kados: I am always happy to hide in the shadowland for LibLime.
16:02 kados :-)
16:03 thd kados: you should get the world to convert to LCC because DDC is proprietary.
16:03 kados thd: i didn't know that
16:03 kados thd: anyway, if you can give me some figures (ie, money) I will respond to the client
16:04 thd kados: OCLC bought Forrest press several years ago and has been the mean owner of DDC ever since then.
16:12 thd kados: what kind of time-line do they need?
16:13 kados thd: asap i think
16:13 kados hi tim
16:13 kados thd: I need an answer today
16:13 kados thd: work might start in a week or so
16:13 thd kados: you mean before next week.
16:14 kados thd: they are also wondering how long it would take (ie a rate of X number of records per day, etc.)
16:14 kados thd: sure, if it will take you that long to come up with an answer :-)
16:14 kados tim: ready for patron images in the Intranet?
16:14 kados tim: I'm getting ready to install them right now
16:14 tim hi kados
16:15 tim kados: Any time is fine with me.
16:15 thd kados: I was last cataloguing 50 records a day but that was archival cataloguing with lots of careful checking of things.
18:09 thd kados; you sent the file to library at instead of liblime at but I managed to just avoid bouncing messages.
18:13 kados thd: oops ... sorry :-)
18:13 kados thd: unfortunately, this client is very impatient for an answer :-)
18:14 thd kados: no worry, all is safe.
18:14 kados thd: how did you trip to the Bank go? :-)
18:14 kados thd: good
18:14 thd kados: everything is fine
18:18 thd kados: are you still there?
18:33 kados thd: ok ... I'm back
19:15 tim Is anyone working on an AJAX circ interface?
19:15 kados we've toyed with the idea
19:16 kados it would require pretty much a complete rewrite of the intranet scripts
19:16 kados maybe even some new routines in the modules
19:16 kados in any case, it would be an expensive job :-)
20:58 thd kados: authorities matching for UNIMARC in $3 which paul adapted for Koha in $9 would normally match a standard national set of authority records control numbers using $3 if my presumption is correct.
20:59 kados thd: so how does it work with USMARC?
20:59 kados thd: there must be some way for the authority list to map to the record
21:00 thd kados: USMARC or MARC 21 systems usually use string matching which may seem crazy but that is how it is done.
21:01 chris eeewww
21:01 thd kados: UNIMARC had the advantage of coming later to do some things much better.
21:01 kados wow, that is crazy
21:01 thd chris: string matching is fun :)
21:01 chris computationally intensive though
21:02 thd The only way to set up proper authorities at least initially in a MARC 21 system is string matching.
21:02 chris right
21:03 thd chris: It is computationally intensive but authority files change infrequently so that is not as bad as it might seem at first.
21:03 chris good point
21:04 thd chris: But eeewww is right.  UNIMARC does it better.
21:05 kados so first and foremost we need a way to do that
21:05 kados cause as far as I know there isn't one now
21:06 thd paul's use of $9 guarantees that it will work on any MARC system the same way.
21:06 kados but how do we take an authorities file from a client and import it so that the client's records use it?
21:07 kados (not new records, but already existing records)?
21:07 thd the only problem with what paul has done is that it only retrieves and fills the value for $a from the authority record.
21:10 thd kados: you read the field containing the authorised heading and search all bibliographic records for the use of that heading in the relevant fields to match the authority type then add a matching $9 with the record control number for the authority.
21:10 kados I guess that's not _too_ bad
21:11 thd kados: different authority types use different feds for the authorised heading.
21:12 thd kados: the problem comes with subject authorities.
21:13 thd kados: If you had all the authority records from LC you would not have every possible permutation of subdivisions in a different authority record.
21:14 kados but I assume if a client gives me bib data with an authority file it's going to match up
21:15 thd kados: In that case only $a is guaranteed an authority record, although, subdivisions often match authority records themselves.
21:15 kados thd: would you enjoy writing the script that did that matching?
21:16 kados thd: as a secret agent of LibLime? :-)
21:16 thd subdivisions are authorised but the combined permutation of subdivisions do not match a subdivided authority record.
21:17 thd kados: Do I not get credit if the script works?
21:17 kados of course
21:17 kados you retain all copyrights on it
21:17 thd kados: How secret do I have to be :)
21:17 kados not secret at all actually
21:17 kados I just thought it sounded better :-)
21:18 thd kados: I do like being anonymous.
21:18 thd kados: I tried to be secret with Follett and they disapproved.
21:19 kados heh
21:20 thd kados: They insist on direct relationships with the end user library but were happy to answer my question anyway except that everyone had left for the day.
21:21 thd kados: I wish to be unanonymous as soon as Koha supports standards close enough to my satisfaction.
21:22 thd kados: Till then I can have a lot of fun as a secret agent.
21:23 thd kados: Afterwords I can still creep into the shadows.
21:26 thd kados: That scri[pt would be fun to write.  I have had a design in mind for how would work if it worked.
21:26 kados sweet
21:27 thd kados: Do you have a library that has all the LC authority records or even all the authorities for the ones they use?
21:30 thd kados: have you committed your debugged MARC editor code to the authority record editor?
21:31 kados no
21:32 kados I have a library that has authority records for subject and author, though I have no idea if it's LC or not
21:32 kados thd: you said you had got authorities working in Koha before, could you help me to get them going on
21:34 thd kados: I used the authorities record editor to manually create some authorities and linked them to the bibliographic editor.
21:35 thd kados: authorities require their own frameworks for different types of authorities.
21:37 kados thd: by authorities record editor do you mean this:
21:37 kados[…]
21:39 thd kados: each authority is then linked from the bibliographic record using $9 in the authority controlled field.
21:39 thd kados: no I will give you the link
21:41 thd kados: I have to change templates.  The current NPL template should have them for 2.2.5, although, it had not included authorities previously.
21:44 thd kados:[…]es/
21:45 thd kados: your npl template is the LibLime custom version and does not have the right links as far as I could see.
21:46 kados wow, I've never seen this page
21:46 kados I'm going to see if we even have a npl template for it
21:46 thd kados: separate frameworks are needed for each authority type as I stated.
21:48 thd kados: It is now accessible in the standard colourless npl intranet templates from 2.2.5.
21:48 kados right
21:48 kados looks like this could use some work
21:48 kados as well as a link to it from somewhere
21:49 thd kados: presumably this has all the deficiencies that you have recently corrected in the MARC bibliographic editor.
21:49 kados what am I missing in the drop-down boxes in the upper-left of the screen
21:49 kados thd: I'll check the code
21:49 kados thd: it doesnt' use MARChtml2marc
21:50 kados thd: ahh ... but it _does_ have an AUTHhtml2marc
21:50 thd kados: it must be a copy of some version of that with some authority modification.
21:50 kados I'll check that out
21:51 kados yea, it's the same routine I think
21:51 kados I'm assuming that there are some differences in the logic
21:52 kados if MARC authorities have different rules
21:52 thd kados: careful not to wipe out the special authority magic section
21:52 kados which section is that?
21:53 thd kados: I have not looked at the code.  The authority magic could all be external.
21:54 kados yea, I've checked it with diff
21:54 thd s/external/external to anything that the record editor needs to do/
21:54 kados it's identical except that MARChtml2marc handles a leader
21:55 kados do MARC authorities have leaders?
21:55 thd kados: all MARC records have leaders if they are MARC records :)
21:55 kados heh ... ok so looks like we're going to need to create some AUTH frameworks too
21:56 kados with plugins, etc.
21:56 thd kados: yes it should draw frameworks from a separate place form the bibliographic frameworks.
21:56 kados it doesn't currently?
21:57 kados or are there currently no frameworks for authorities
21:57 thd kados: It does currently
21:58 thd kados: Even you custom LibLime templates provide access to the thesaurus editor for editing bibliographic frameworks.
21:58 kados how do you create authority types?
21:58 thd s/bibliographic/authority/
21:58 kados ahh ... I see them now
21:59 kados wow ... so as soon as you're done with the default MARC framework
21:59 kados we need to get to work on the AUTH framework
21:59 kados thd: are there any limitations on whether Koha could support full MARC Authorities given the proper framework?
21:59 thd kados: different authority types are specified with the correct authority framework  and use different fields for main entry in their authority files.
22:01 thd kados: The only problem with paul's otherwise excellent design is that they only work for $a of the authorised heading.
22:02 thd kados: So that is a problem for example with authors where other subfields containing birth and death dates, titles, etc. are needed to distinguish one author from another.
22:03 thd kados: Actually, in UNIMARC it should be a worse problem because first name and last name belong in separate subfields for UNIMARC.
22:04 thd kados: paul cheats and omits the other subfields from his UNIMARC bibliographic frameworks and his libraries do not mind.
22:07 thd kados: Of course those UNIMARC records with everything in $a could easily be fixed with a script if the authorises system in Koha could manage more than $a.
22:07 kados interesting ...
22:08 kados so what are the authorities actually used for?
22:08 kados ie, can they be used to improve searches?
22:08 kados we really need to get a few examples going so I can understand how it's supposed to work
22:09 thd kados: You can create some authority records and see how magnificent it is.
22:10 thd kados: so you have the authorised form of the authority in one field of the authority record.
22:10 thd kados: other fields contain references and tracings to other fields.
22:11 thd kados: The current Koha system does not allow transversing from one authority record to another related one but that could always be added.
22:12 thd kados: other fields contain references and tracings in other fields.
22:13 thd kados: the references and tracings may be other forms of the authority or other names by which the authority is sometimes known
22:14 thd kados: you can search authorities using the term that comes to mind
22:15 kados hang on ... phone
22:15 thd kados: the search returns a list of matching authority records that includes reference and tracing matches
22:38 thd kados: let me know when you are back
22:48 kados thd: I'm back
22:49 kados thd: so I'm gonna pull up some auth records from the file my client sent me
22:50 kados NUMBER 1 =>
22:50 kados LDR 00066nz   2200037o  4500
22:50 kados 100 10 _aCarmichael, Ian,
22:50 kados       _d1920-
22:50 kados NUMBER 2 =>
22:50 kados LDR 00053nz   2200037o  4500
22:50 kados 100 10 _aHale, Gena
22:50 kados NUMBER 3 =>
22:50 kados LDR 00062nz   2200037o  4500
22:50 kados 100 10 _aGold, Alison Leslie
22:50 kados NUMBER 4 =>
22:50 kados LDR 00058nz   2200037o  4500
22:50 kados 100 10 _aValeska, Shonna
22:50 kados so first I assume I've got to add an authority type for authors
22:50 thd kados: are those the whole records?
22:50 kados yep
22:51 thd kados: I guess only the very famous would have long standard records
22:51 kados thd: Report tag
22:52 kados thd: is this 100a?
22:52 thd kados: yes
22:52 thd kados: well where are you where you see that?
22:52 kados huh ... doesn't look like the type I created was saved
22:52 kados[…]dmin/
22:53 kados click on 'Add Authority Type'
22:53 kados yea, I can't get it to create a new authority type
22:53 kados wonder why
22:54 kados don't see any
22:54 kados weird
22:56 kados thd: have you had success in adding authority types in the past?
22:57 thd kados: yes it works fine but you should leave out the a just use 100
22:58 kados I tried that
22:58 kados[…]dmin/
22:58 kados it does not show up
22:58 kados thd: can you create a new one on
22:59 thd kados: I think the problem is a template issue.
22:59 kados I'll try to track it down
23:03 thd kados: It works fine in the default template
23:07 kados thd: why would report tag be 150 for subject?
23:07 kados shouldn't it be 650?
23:08 thd kados: use the field form the authority record standard
23:09 kados I see some 150s, some 130s and some 151s
23:09 kados in the data I have for subjects
23:09 kados ok, what's the next step?
23:09 kados do we need to edit the framework?
23:10 thd kados: In the case of personal authors they happen to be the same field number as main entry personal author in the bibliographic format
23:10 kados (I also see some authors in the subject authorities file)
23:11 kados thd: do we need to edit the frameworks to continue?
23:13 thd kados: there are titles in author names authorities but I do not know why authors would appear in subject authorities
23:14 thd kados: I think you may only need a link in the authorities framework if building authorities from the existing set of bibliographic data.
23:15 thd kados: I did not try that because building scripts only exist for UNIMARC.
23:17 thd kados: The correct method of authority control checks national/international standard authority records which can be stored on the local system and updated periodically
23:18 kados ok ...
23:18 kados I still don't understand what the next step is
23:18 thd kados: Locally created authority files can supplement the standard set of authorities.
23:19 thd kados: I think the next step is to create an authority record in the authority record editor
23:20 thd kados: It should be to import the authority records but does nothing useful
23:20 kados ok, I'll create a few here
23:22 thd kados: by the way I am seeing something that is suggesting that $9 may not work properly for MARC 21 subject subdivisions.
23:22 kados this form is HUGE
23:22 thd kados: really, and I did not even set it up.
23:22 kados I suspect the NPL templates are quite buggy for authorities
23:22 thd :)
23:24 kados the javascript on the page takes so long that firefox complains :-)
23:25 kados ok, one created:
23:25 kados[…]
23:25 kados now how do I link it to an actual item?
23:26 kados i suspect I need to set up authorities in my MARC Bibliographic framework, right?
23:26 kados thd: do you know how to do this?
23:27 thd kados go to the authorities record editor
23:27 thd kados: choose a framework
23:27 kados I'm gonna delete a bunch of the frameworks fields for Author
23:28 thd kados: then create an authority record
23:28 kados I think all I need is 100 and 110
23:28 kados for Author
23:28 thd kados: nooooo
23:28 thd kados: the 4XX 5XX
23:28 thd fileds are what give authorities their real value
23:29 kados hehe
23:29 kados ok ... I just deleted a few of them :-)
23:29 kados for author
23:29 thd kados: ordinarily you never have to create your own authority records so it is not much of an issue
23:29 kados right
23:30 kados thd: so I have created an authority record
23:30 kados[…]
23:30 thd kados: without 4XX 5XX you cannot see really what authorities do for you
23:30 kados now what do I do ?
23:31 thd kados: look up an authority record here to see what they look like when you have a well known author or common subject
23:32 thd kados:
23:35 thd kados: maybe this does not work because I cannot share my session ID but look at[…]1213312&PID=12371
23:35 thd if you can
23:36 thd maybe remove the last couple of parameter strings
23:37 thd kados: that is meant to be a link to the subject authority for United States
23:38 kados wow, quite complete
23:38 kados so what's the next step for our example on
23:38 thd which is 151?
23:39 thd kados: you should just put some alternate names like US and USA for United States into 4XX fields
23:40 thd kados: That allows you to see searching for USA allows you to find United States
23:41 thd kados: If you have deleted all the 4XX 5XX etc. fields from your framework that would not work :)
23:42 thd kados: Oh yes, 151 is a geographical name
23:45 kados thd: understand that all i have in my records right now is 100 and 010
23:45 kados thd: and I would like to get a demo going tonight for just those :-)
23:46 kados thd: so I can go back to a client and say "here's how this works ..."
23:46 kados thd: because right now I can't figure out how to use authorities in Koha
23:46 thd kados: ok but those are not nearly as much fun :)
23:46 kados thd: does that make sense?
23:46 thd kados: yes
23:46 kados[…]
23:46 kados so, given that authority record, how can I use it in Koha?
23:47 kados do I need to modify my MARC Bibliographic Framework?
23:48 thd kados: let us add something small to the authority record
23:48 kados what's that?
23:50 kados thd: ?
23:51 thd kados: I added Kerr, Kathy in a 4XX just for fun
23:52 kados k
23:52 kados now what?
23:52 thd kados now we edit the bibliographic framework to use the authority
23:53 kados ok, I'm in subfields for 100a now
23:53 kados thesaurus AUTHOR ... is it that simple?
23:54 kados ok, I added that
23:54 kados now what?
23:55 thd we both added it
23:55 kados that should be ok
23:56 kados what's the next step?
23:56 thd kados: now create a new bibliographic record or edit an existing one
23:57 thd when you come to 100 $a you can fill it from the authority record
23:57 thd kados: you can even search for Kathy Kerr and find the correct authorised value
23:58 kados I can't seem to find Kathy Kerr on the authorities search
23:59 thd kados: use the values or '...' at 100
00:00 kados yea, i am
00:00 kados I can't find Kerr
00:01 thd kaos: yes I cannot find the main name even searching the main authorities search
00:02 kados I suspect this search suffers from the same problems as the search of the repository
00:02 thd kados: what is wrong with repository searches
00:02 kados here's the mysql:
00:02 thd ?
00:02 kados select distinct m1.authid from auth_header,auth_subfield_table as m1 where  m1.authid=auth_header.authid and auth_header.authtypecode=? and (m1.subfieldvalue like 'Kerr, Kathleen%' and m1.tag+m1.subfieldcode in ('100a'))
00:02 kados thd: they often cannot find things in the repositry :-)
00:03 thd kados: this worked perfectly when i tried it under 2.2.4
00:04 thd kados: and it had made me very happy with only a little frown when I found that it was restricted to $a
00:06 kados mysql> select * from auth_header;        +--------+--------------+---------​----+--------------+------------+| authid | authtypecode | datecreated | datemodified | origincode |+--------+--------------+---------​----+--------------+------------+|      1 |              | 2006-03-01  | NULL         | NULL       |
00:06 kados mysql> select * from auth_subfield_table;
00:06 kados +------------+--------+-----+------​----+---------------+--------------​+---------------+----------------+
00:07 kados | subfieldid | authid | tag | tagorder | tag_indicator | subfieldcode | subfieldorder | subfieldvalue  |
00:07 kados |          2 |      1 | 100 |       25 | 10            | a            |             1 | Kerr, Kathleen |
00:07 kados |          3 |      1 | 400 |       43 |               | a            |             1 | Kerr, Kathy    |
00:07 kados looks like it's missing authtypecode in auth_header
00:07 kados that could be the problem
00:09 thd kados: did you create that without selecting the author framework?
00:20 thd kados: I think something went worng when you created that authority record.
00:21 thd kados: I created a record for Joshua M. Ferraro
00:21 thd kados: I can find that record by searching on kados
00:23 kados hehe
00:23 kados I may has set it up wrong
00:23 kados let me see if I can fix it
00:25 thd kados; I think you need the default template for it to work well though
00:27 kados yep
00:27 kados switching back :/
00:27 kados I'll bug owen tomorrow to fix it
00:31 thd kados: did you turn MARC off?
00:31 thd The MARC editor is gone
00:34 kados I didn't
00:34 kados but someone may have
00:36 kados ok, I'm going to see if I can get owen to take a stab at fixing npl templates
00:36 kados to work with authorities
00:36 kados thanks for walking through it with me thd
00:36 kados i think I get the basic idea
00:37 kados even if I can't get it to actually work :-)
00:37 thd kados: It is a fantastic feature
00:38 thd paul did a very good job with the minor qualification of the $a limitation
00:39 thd kados: Currently, there is no support for tracings and references searches in the OPAC so that searches for kados can find Joshua
00:41 thd kados: paul had suggested that he would add it to the OPAC for 3.0
00:48 kados cool
00:49 kados so what's the point of having so many fields in an authority record if we can only use $a?
00:50 thd kados: $a is a subfield.  You can use subfield $a in many fields
00:51 kados right, but in the framework I see lots of other subfields
00:51 thd kados: Of course the $a restriction should be corrected.   That is a bug/design error.
00:51 kados I guess my question is
00:51 kados I understand that I can create a authority record for 'Joshua Ferraro'
00:52 kados and then, in the OPAC I should be able to search for the authority record, then pull up all the records that are linked to that authority
00:52 kados but what else can authorities be used for?
00:53 thd filling the authorised value when creating records
00:53 kados right
00:53 kados but what did you do where you could search for 'kados'
00:54 thd kados: changing all the authorities at once when you acquire some distinguished title like King Joshua
00:55 thd kados: All the bibliographic records should then change to match the authority
00:55 kados ooh ... I like that feature :-)
00:55 thd kados: Of course titles go in a different subfield from $a
00:55 kados so what is the $a restriction?
00:56 thd kados: as do dates to distinguish you from all the other Joshua M. Ferraros in the world.
00:58 thd kados: single subfield restrictions are an artifact of separating everything in a record into separate SQL rows by subfield
00:58 thd kados: There is no reason that could not be fixed even with records in SQL
01:00 kados why wasn't the AUTH framework identical to the MARC BIB framework so it wouldn't have this limitation>
01:00 thd kados: the returned result just needs to be a composite of all subfields needed from the required field just as it is now in the subject searching for subdivided subjects
01:01 thd kados: the same limitation is really present in the bibliographic frameworks
01:01 kados I don't understand the limitation
01:01 kados could you explain it in simple language :-)
01:01 thd kados: the starting point and filling point is based around individual subfields rather than fields as a whole
01:02 kados what are the starting point and filling point?
01:03 thd kados: starting point is where Koha tables links to a single MARC field/subfield pair.
01:04 thd kados: So is linked to 100a
01:04 thd kados: when really it should be linked to 100 as a whole in the bibliographic record.
01:05 thd kados: yet as paul implemented MARC in SQL the anchor or starting point is 100a not 100
01:07 thd kados: Then you add see also references, plugins etc. to 100a not to 100 as a whole or to the groups of relevant subfields.
01:08 kados I see
01:08 thd kados: Therefore when filling 100a from a plugin only 100a is filled not all applicable subfields in 100
01:09 kados so you end up needint more than one plugin and you must repeat the authorities search to fill the other values, eh?
01:09 kados it seems like you should be able to fill the other values based soley on the id of the authority
01:09 kados using the technique paul told me about to fill other subfields with a single plugin
01:09 thd kados: authorities only work on $a.  More than one plugin is not the solution.
01:09 kados would that fix the problem as you see it?
01:10 kados what if the $a plugin was able to pull out values for all the subfields and populate them
01:10 thd kados: yes fill multiple subfields with one plugin
01:10 kados ok ... once I get owen to fix the authorities support in the npl template I'll work on a few authorities plugins
01:11 kados in the meantime, I've got a couple of scripts from hdl
01:11 thd kados: and search multiple subfields with one plugin
01:11 kados one called
01:11 kados and one called
01:11 kados looks like they are used to build authorities lists from existing data
01:11 kados I'm wondering if it is possible to build such authorities
01:12 thd kados: I presume those are UNIMARC only so you would need to modify them for MARC 21.
01:12 kados and then append a new list as you recieve new authorities from your cataloging source
01:12 kados yes I will need to modify them
01:12 kados perhaps you can help me
01:12 kados want me to mail them to you?
01:13 kados mail sent
01:13 kados liblime at :-)
01:13 thd kados: hdl sent them to me too when I asked.  They are just updated versions of what has already been there I presume.
01:13 kados ahh
01:13 kados sorry to fill up your inbox then :-)
01:14 thd kados: There are others and a script to manage it all documented in something paul wrote that appears on
01:15 thd kados: I have plenty of space in that box.
01:15 thd kados: As long as you do not send a 20MB attachment.
01:16 thd kados: authorities built from the bibliographic record are the poor man's weak authorities.
01:17 thd kados: They necessarily contain no tracings and references.  They have only the authorised form.
01:17 thd kados: Therefore, you cannot find United States by searching for USA
01:19 thd kados; The right thing to do is create a working and acquire a complete set of authorities from LC.
01:19 thd kados: you can then give away authority records to all your customers.
01:21 thd kados: You could even charge a fee for the authority records.
01:22 kados how can I obtain a set of authorities from LC?
01:22 kados can I simply use my current customer's authority records?
01:23 thd kados: You could possibly make an arrangement with a MARC records reseller for LC authority records that may be limited to redistribution to your customers.  That should lower the cost significantly.
01:24 thd kados: They are free to copy if you can find them anywhere.
01:26 thd kados: the average patron or even the average librarian cannot be expected to know the required authorised heading for a successful search much of the time.
01:26 thd kados: good authority records in a system able to use them can correct that.
01:27 thd kados: Sirsi Unicorn had been about the only ILS that uses authority searching in the OPAC.
01:28 thd maybe the only one absolutely
01:29 thd kados: Koha should be even better than Sirsi Unicorn
01:30 kados I'm sure it will be once we get a decent authorities file in there
01:31 kados thd: we've made good progress over the past few weeks
01:31 thd kados: fantastic progress
01:32 kados thd: should we work on a next?
01:34 thd kados: In terms of priorities I would think that fixing MARC-8 and ISO 5426 at least for UNIMARC in rel_2_2 is more important to correct the obvious bug.
01:34 kados thd: didn't you hear?
01:34 thd kados: I know MARC-8 is fixed for XML
01:34 kados thd: the new version of MARC::File::XML automatically converts MARC-8 to UTF-8
01:35 kados and since we run all edited records through MARC::File::XML, that problem is solved
01:35 thd kados: That does not help rel_2_2 or UNIMARC even in 3.0
01:35 kados ?
01:35 kados why not?
01:36 kados maybe I don't understand the problem
01:36 thd kados: are you running all edited records through XML in rel_2_2?
01:36 kados yep
01:36 thd kados: Ok but UNIMARC never uses MARC-8.
01:37 kados if position 9 in the leader says it's MARC-8, MARC::XML::File changes it to utf-8
01:37 kados otherwise it leaves it alone
01:37 kados so what's the problem?
01:37 thd kados: UNIMARC has several possible encodings rather than one comprehensive one.
01:38 thd kados: ISO-5426 is the encoding usually used for European languages in UNIMARC.
01:40 thd kados: It has been possible to obtain records from BNF in ISO-8859-1, which is not a standard UNIMARC encoding so the problem has been partially mitigated.
01:41 kados thd: I don't have any UNIMARC clients and I don't expect I ever will :-)
01:41 kados thd: so that's a problem for paul to address :-)
01:42 thd kados: OK, I want my multi-MARC library system that can freely translate between one MARC and another so I can obtain record from anywhere.
01:43 thd kados: There is a Perl module for translating ISO-5426.
01:44 thd kados: It was originally written for German MAB records.
01:45 thd kados: So is next along with more and better plugin support in the record editor and improving the framework.
01:45 kados thd: cool, so we can just pre-process UNIMARC records with that perl module
01:45 kados ok ...
01:46 kados so you're almost done with the framework right?
01:46 thd kados: yes it works just like the similar MARC-8 module from Ed Summers.
01:47 thd kados: Although it only covers European characters with diacritical marks.
01:47 thd kados: yes, almost done with the framework
01:49 thd kados: Also a better Z39.50 module is needed.  I had been working on that until I started working on the framework.
01:51 thd kados: Your most likely customers would probably have more appreciation of a better record editor and a better Z39.50 client than authority support.
01:52 thd kados: Also, good authority support is likely to mean investing money in a subscription to authority records to realise the advantage for your customers.
01:55 thd kados: Software that present Koha customers look at has no authority support but definitely have better Z39.50 clients.
01:56 kados yep
01:56 kados our z-client is pretty bad
01:57 thd kados: It should be easy to surpass the Z39.50 clients in competing software but you would need the right documentation from Mike Taylor to make that work in Perl::Zoom.
01:58 thd kados: I have a good amount of understanding invested in PHP/Yaz
01:59 thd kados: Perl::Zoom is the way to go if you can get Mike to document non-blocking queries of multiple targets.
02:00 thd kados: I have been experimenting with Z39.50 clients since BookWhere was born.
02:02 thd kados: BookWhere which was based on the free software CanSearch uses Z39.50 explain to find what syntax the targets support and reduce errors from using the wrong syntax on a client that does not support it.
02:03 thd kados: Of curse that is advanced, functionality.
02:06 thd kados: My user interface has not been rewritten for drop down fielded forms and I am downloading all records instead of choosing one so far.
05:37 osmoze hello
06:09 |hdl| hello osmoze

| Channels | #koha index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | plain, newest first | summary