Time Nick Message 12:20 |hdl| hi kados 12:21 |hdl| hi owen 12:22 owen Hi hdl 12:22 |hdl| kados : my new overduenotice would send mail twice. On for borowers'branch" and one for default branch if a default policy is defined. 12:32 owen Is everyone else getting a bunch of duplicate mailings from Koha-cvs? 12:40 kados yea, it looks like it to me 12:40 kados there are definitely major mailing list probs at savannah 12:40 kados some messages posted to koha-devel about 4 days ago haven't made it through yet 12:41 kados |hdl|: congrats on the new home :-) 12:41 kados |hdl|: any pics? 12:42 |hdl| not yet :) Still working on latest touch and on getting my office in our home. 12:58 kados btw: I committed what I think is a fully bug free MARChtml2xml subroutine this morning 12:58 kados I believe for the first time ever we have a valid MARC editor :-) 13:04 thd hooraaay 13:04 thd great work kados and chris 13:06 thd kados: are you there? 13:07 kados thd: yep 13:09 kados thd: thanks for your email re: cataloger's desktop content 13:10 kados I'll wait a couple of days to see if I hear back from them 13:10 kados if I don't I'll ping you for those emails :-) 14:59 owen kados: did you get a chance to look at that javascript I mentioned last night? 15:22 kados owen: I didn't ... could you give me the link again? 15:23 kados thd: are you there? 15:23 owen Heres the page that has an example of it: http://www.sitepoint.com/article/structural-markup-javascript 15:24 owen And this I think is the official write-up: http://www.scottandrew.com/weblog/articles/cbs-events 15:24 kados ooh, that does look nice 15:25 kados esp for the MARC editor 15:25 owen I don't fully understand it, but it looks very useful for instances where we want more than one onload event 15:25 kados yea ... 15:26 kados my personal preference is to test the method 15:26 kados like the OPAC does 15:27 kados I don't have any clients using browsers other than firefox on the Intranet 15:27 kados so I'm kinda ok with firefox-specific stuff there 15:27 kados and eventually, the Intranet will probably be a firefox plugin anyeay 15:27 kados anyway even 15:30 kados does that make sense? or am I missing the point? :) 15:37 owen Like I said, I don't really fully understand what the addEvent function does in the small details, because it's a little over my head. 15:37 owen I'm not sure the advantages of it vs. your kohajs() function 15:49 kados thd: I've got a question for you if you're around 15:50 thd yes kados 15:52 thd kados: I am here 15:52 kados thd: I've got a client who has some records in an excell spreadsheet (title, author, etc) 15:52 kados thd: and they are interested in doing conversion on them to full MARC records (properly cataloged, etc.) 15:53 thd kados: That sounds like fun 15:53 kados thd: i know I could probably find a jobber to do this ... but thought you might be interested 15:53 thd kados: how many records are there 15:53 thd ? 15:53 kados thd: less than 1000 I think 15:55 thd kados: are they too obscure to be in LC, MELVYL, etc.? 15:56 kados thd: 90% of them will be 15:56 kados but there may be a few that will require original cataloging 15:57 kados thd: I think you should propose a pricing structure to me 15:57 kados thd: based on whether the record is known or requires original cataloging 15:57 kados thd: if you're interested 15:58 kados thd: ie, X ammount if the record can be downloaded, Y amount if it must be cataloged from scratch 15:58 thd kados: we could script the 90% and try to do a better job than your previous script had done. 15:58 thd kados: What level of cataloguing do they need? 15:59 kados thd: they don't know the first thing about it 15:59 thd kados: Do they already have call numbers? 15:59 kados thd: so you'd need to make a recommendation 15:59 kados thd: don't think so 16:00 thd kados: Do they want call numbers? 16:00 kados I assume yes 16:00 kados it would be part of this job to make recommendations about this to them 16:00 kados as an agent of LibLime :-) 16:00 kados (a secret agent I might add :-)) 16:00 thd kados: LCC, DDC, UDC, or something else? 16:01 kados thd: you'd have to pick one I think, but I suspect DDC 16:02 thd kados: I am always happy to hide in the shadowland for LibLime. 16:02 kados :-) 16:03 thd kados: you should get the world to convert to LCC because DDC is proprietary. 16:03 kados thd: i didn't know that 16:03 kados thd: anyway, if you can give me some figures (ie, money) I will respond to the client 16:04 thd kados: OCLC bought Forrest press several years ago and has been the mean owner of DDC ever since then. 16:12 thd kados: what kind of time-line do they need? 16:13 kados thd: asap i think 16:13 kados hi tim 16:13 kados thd: I need an answer today 16:13 kados thd: work might start in a week or so 16:13 thd kados: you mean before next week. 16:14 kados thd: they are also wondering how long it would take (ie a rate of X number of records per day, etc.) 16:14 kados thd: sure, if it will take you that long to come up with an answer :-) 16:14 kados tim: ready for patron images in the Intranet? 16:14 kados tim: I'm getting ready to install them right now 16:14 tim hi kados 16:15 tim kados: Any time is fine with me. 16:15 thd kados: I was last cataloguing 50 records a day but that was archival cataloguing with lots of careful checking of things. 18:09 thd kados; you sent the file to library at agogme.com instead of liblime at agogme.com but I managed to just avoid bouncing messages. 18:13 kados thd: oops ... sorry :-) 18:13 kados thd: unfortunately, this client is very impatient for an answer :-) 18:14 thd kados: no worry, all is safe. 18:14 kados thd: how did you trip to the Bank go? :-) 18:14 kados thd: good 18:14 thd kados: everything is fine 18:18 thd kados: are you still there? 18:33 kados thd: ok ... I'm back 19:15 tim Is anyone working on an AJAX circ interface? 19:15 kados we've toyed with the idea 19:16 kados it would require pretty much a complete rewrite of the intranet scripts 19:16 kados maybe even some new routines in the modules 19:16 kados in any case, it would be an expensive job :-) 20:58 thd kados: authorities matching for UNIMARC in $3 which paul adapted for Koha in $9 would normally match a standard national set of authority records control numbers using $3 if my presumption is correct. 20:59 kados thd: so how does it work with USMARC? 20:59 kados thd: there must be some way for the authority list to map to the record 21:00 thd kados: USMARC or MARC 21 systems usually use string matching which may seem crazy but that is how it is done. 21:01 chris eeewww 21:01 thd kados: UNIMARC had the advantage of coming later to do some things much better. 21:01 kados wow, that is crazy 21:01 thd chris: string matching is fun :) 21:01 chris computationally intensive though 21:02 thd The only way to set up proper authorities at least initially in a MARC 21 system is string matching. 21:02 chris right 21:03 thd chris: It is computationally intensive but authority files change infrequently so that is not as bad as it might seem at first. 21:03 chris good point 21:04 thd chris: But eeewww is right. UNIMARC does it better. 21:05 kados so first and foremost we need a way to do that 21:05 kados cause as far as I know there isn't one now 21:06 thd paul's use of $9 guarantees that it will work on any MARC system the same way. 21:06 kados but how do we take an authorities file from a client and import it so that the client's records use it? 21:07 kados (not new records, but already existing records)? 21:07 thd the only problem with what paul has done is that it only retrieves and fills the value for $a from the authority record. 21:10 thd kados: you read the field containing the authorised heading and search all bibliographic records for the use of that heading in the relevant fields to match the authority type then add a matching $9 with the record control number for the authority. 21:10 kados I guess that's not _too_ bad 21:11 thd kados: different authority types use different feds for the authorised heading. 21:12 thd kados: the problem comes with subject authorities. 21:13 thd kados: If you had all the authority records from LC you would not have every possible permutation of subdivisions in a different authority record. 21:14 kados but I assume if a client gives me bib data with an authority file it's going to match up 21:15 thd kados: In that case only $a is guaranteed an authority record, although, subdivisions often match authority records themselves. 21:15 kados thd: would you enjoy writing the script that did that matching? 21:16 kados thd: as a secret agent of LibLime? :-) 21:16 thd subdivisions are authorised but the combined permutation of subdivisions do not match a subdivided authority record. 21:17 thd kados: Do I not get credit if the script works? 21:17 kados of course 21:17 kados you retain all copyrights on it 21:17 thd kados: How secret do I have to be :) 21:17 kados not secret at all actually 21:17 kados I just thought it sounded better :-) 21:18 thd kados: I do like being anonymous. 21:18 thd kados: I tried to be secret with Follett and they disapproved. 21:19 kados heh 21:20 thd kados: They insist on direct relationships with the end user library but were happy to answer my question anyway except that everyone had left for the day. 21:21 thd kados: I wish to be unanonymous as soon as Koha supports standards close enough to my satisfaction. 21:22 thd kados: Till then I can have a lot of fun as a secret agent. 21:23 thd kados: Afterwords I can still creep into the shadows. 21:26 thd kados: That scri[pt would be fun to write. I have had a design in mind for how bulkauthimport.pl would work if it worked. 21:26 kados sweet 21:27 thd kados: Do you have a library that has all the LC authority records or even all the authorities for the ones they use? 21:30 thd kados: have you committed your debugged MARC editor code to the authority record editor? 21:31 kados no 21:32 kados I have a library that has authority records for subject and author, though I have no idea if it's LC or not 21:32 kados thd: you said you had got authorities working in Koha before, could you help me to get them going on koha.liblime.com? 21:34 thd kados: I used the authorities record editor to manually create some authorities and linked them to the bibliographic editor. 21:35 thd kados: authorities require their own frameworks for different types of authorities. 21:37 kados thd: by authorities record editor do you mean this: 21:37 kados http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/admin/authorised_values.pl 21:39 thd kados: each authority is then linked from the bibliographic record using $9 in the authority controlled field. 21:39 thd kados: no I will give you the link 21:41 thd kados: I have to change templates. The current NPL template should have them for 2.2.5, although, it had not included authorities previously. 21:44 thd kados: http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/authorities/authorities.pl 21:45 thd kados: your npl template is the LibLime custom version and does not have the right links as far as I could see. 21:46 kados wow, I've never seen this page 21:46 kados I'm going to see if we even have a npl template for it 21:46 thd kados: separate frameworks are needed for each authority type as I stated. 21:48 thd kados: It is now accessible in the standard colourless npl intranet templates from 2.2.5. 21:48 kados right 21:48 kados looks like this could use some work 21:48 kados as well as a link to it from somewhere 21:49 thd kados: presumably this has all the deficiencies that you have recently corrected in the MARC bibliographic editor. 21:49 kados what am I missing in the drop-down boxes in the upper-left of the screen 21:49 kados thd: I'll check the code 21:49 kados thd: it doesnt' use MARChtml2marc 21:50 kados thd: ahh ... but it _does_ have an AUTHhtml2marc 21:50 thd kados: it must be a copy of some version of that with some authority modification. 21:50 kados I'll check that out 21:51 kados yea, it's the same routine I think 21:51 kados I'm assuming that there are some differences in the logic 21:52 kados if MARC authorities have different rules 21:52 thd kados: careful not to wipe out the special authority magic section 21:52 kados which section is that? 21:53 thd kados: I have not looked at the code. The authority magic could all be external. 21:54 kados yea, I've checked it with diff 21:54 thd s/external/external to anything that the record editor needs to do/ 21:54 kados it's identical except that MARChtml2marc handles a leader 21:55 kados do MARC authorities have leaders? 21:55 thd kados: all MARC records have leaders if they are MARC records :) 21:55 kados heh ... ok so looks like we're going to need to create some AUTH frameworks too 21:56 kados with plugins, etc. 21:56 thd kados: yes it should draw frameworks from a separate place form the bibliographic frameworks. 21:56 kados it doesn't currently? 21:57 kados or are there currently no frameworks for authorities 21:57 thd kados: It does currently 21:58 thd kados: Even you custom LibLime templates provide access to the thesaurus editor for editing bibliographic frameworks. 21:58 kados how do you create authority types? 21:58 thd s/bibliographic/authority/ 21:58 kados ahh ... I see them now 21:59 kados wow ... so as soon as you're done with the default MARC framework 21:59 kados we need to get to work on the AUTH framework 21:59 kados thd: are there any limitations on whether Koha could support full MARC Authorities given the proper framework? 21:59 thd kados: different authority types are specified with the correct authority framework and use different fields for main entry in their authority files. 22:01 thd kados: The only problem with paul's otherwise excellent design is that they only work for $a of the authorised heading. 22:02 thd kados: So that is a problem for example with authors where other subfields containing birth and death dates, titles, etc. are needed to distinguish one author from another. 22:03 thd kados: Actually, in UNIMARC it should be a worse problem because first name and last name belong in separate subfields for UNIMARC. 22:04 thd kados: paul cheats and omits the other subfields from his UNIMARC bibliographic frameworks and his libraries do not mind. 22:07 thd kados: Of course those UNIMARC records with everything in $a could easily be fixed with a script if the authorises system in Koha could manage more than $a. 22:07 kados interesting ... 22:08 kados so what are the authorities actually used for? 22:08 kados ie, can they be used to improve searches? 22:08 kados we really need to get a few examples going so I can understand how it's supposed to work 22:09 thd kados: You can create some authority records and see how magnificent it is. 22:10 thd kados: so you have the authorised form of the authority in one field of the authority record. 22:10 thd kados: other fields contain references and tracings to other fields. 22:11 thd kados: The current Koha system does not allow transversing from one authority record to another related one but that could always be added. 22:12 thd kados: other fields contain references and tracings in other fields. 22:13 thd kados: the references and tracings may be other forms of the authority or other names by which the authority is sometimes known 22:14 thd kados: you can search authorities using the term that comes to mind 22:15 kados hang on ... phone 22:15 thd kados: the search returns a list of matching authority records that includes reference and tracing matches 22:38 thd kados: let me know when you are back 22:48 kados thd: I'm back 22:49 kados thd: so I'm gonna pull up some auth records from the file my client sent me 22:50 kados NUMBER 1 => 22:50 kados LDR 00066nz 2200037o 4500 22:50 kados 100 10 _aCarmichael, Ian, 22:50 kados _d1920- 22:50 kados NUMBER 2 => 22:50 kados LDR 00053nz 2200037o 4500 22:50 kados 100 10 _aHale, Gena 22:50 kados NUMBER 3 => 22:50 kados LDR 00062nz 2200037o 4500 22:50 kados 100 10 _aGold, Alison Leslie 22:50 kados NUMBER 4 => 22:50 kados LDR 00058nz 2200037o 4500 22:50 kados 100 10 _aValeska, Shonna 22:50 kados so first I assume I've got to add an authority type for authors 22:50 thd kados: are those the whole records? 22:50 kados yep 22:51 thd kados: I guess only the very famous would have long standard records 22:51 kados thd: Report tag 22:52 kados thd: is this 100a? 22:52 thd kados: yes 22:52 thd kados: well where are you where you see that? 22:52 kados huh ... doesn't look like the type I created was saved 22:52 kados http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/admin/authtypes.pl 22:53 kados click on 'Add Authority Type' 22:53 kados yea, I can't get it to create a new authority type 22:53 kados wonder why 22:54 kados don't see any 22:54 kados weird 22:56 kados thd: have you had success in adding authority types in the past? 22:57 thd kados: yes it works fine but you should leave out the a just use 100 22:58 kados I tried that 22:58 kados http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/admin/authtypes.pl 22:58 kados it does not show up 22:58 kados thd: can you create a new one on koha.liblime.com? 22:59 thd kados: I think the problem is a template issue. 22:59 kados I'll try to track it down 23:03 thd kados: It works fine in the default template 23:07 kados thd: why would report tag be 150 for subject? 23:07 kados shouldn't it be 650? 23:08 thd kados: use the field form the authority record standard 23:09 kados I see some 150s, some 130s and some 151s 23:09 kados in the data I have for subjects 23:09 kados ok, what's the next step? 23:09 kados do we need to edit the framework? 23:10 thd kados: In the case of personal authors they happen to be the same field number as main entry personal author in the bibliographic format 23:10 kados (I also see some authors in the subject authorities file) 23:11 kados thd: do we need to edit the frameworks to continue? 23:13 thd kados: there are titles in author names authorities but I do not know why authors would appear in subject authorities 23:14 thd kados: I think you may only need a link in the authorities framework if building authorities from the existing set of bibliographic data. 23:15 thd kados: I did not try that because building scripts only exist for UNIMARC. 23:17 thd kados: The correct method of authority control checks national/international standard authority records which can be stored on the local system and updated periodically 23:18 kados ok ... 23:18 kados I still don't understand what the next step is 23:18 thd kados: Locally created authority files can supplement the standard set of authorities. 23:19 thd kados: I think the next step is to create an authority record in the authority record editor 23:20 thd kados: It should be to import the authority records but bulkauthimport.pl does nothing useful 23:20 kados ok, I'll create a few here 23:22 thd kados: by the way I am seeing something that is suggesting that $9 may not work properly for MARC 21 subject subdivisions. 23:22 kados this form is HUGE 23:22 thd kados: really, and I did not even set it up. 23:22 kados I suspect the NPL templates are quite buggy for authorities 23:22 thd :) 23:24 kados the javascript on the page takes so long that firefox complains :-) 23:25 kados ok, one created: 23:25 kados http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/authorities/detail.pl?authid=1 23:25 kados now how do I link it to an actual item? 23:26 kados i suspect I need to set up authorities in my MARC Bibliographic framework, right? 23:26 kados thd: do you know how to do this? 23:27 thd kados go to the authorities record editor 23:27 thd kados: choose a framework 23:27 kados I'm gonna delete a bunch of the frameworks fields for Author 23:28 thd kados: then create an authority record 23:28 kados I think all I need is 100 and 110 23:28 kados for Author 23:28 thd kados: nooooo 23:28 thd kados: the 4XX 5XX 23:28 thd fileds are what give authorities their real value 23:29 kados hehe 23:29 kados ok ... I just deleted a few of them :-) 23:29 kados for author 23:29 thd kados: ordinarily you never have to create your own authority records so it is not much of an issue 23:29 kados right 23:30 kados thd: so I have created an authority record 23:30 kados http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/authorities/detail.pl?authid=1 23:30 thd kados: without 4XX 5XX you cannot see really what authorities do for you 23:30 kados now what do I do ? 23:31 thd kados: look up an authority record here to see what they look like when you have a well known author or common subject 23:32 thd kados: http://authorities.loc.gov/ 23:35 thd kados: maybe this does not work because I cannot share my session ID but look at http://authorities.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?AuthRecID=3280563&v1=1&HC=4&SEQ=20060301213312&PID=12371 23:35 thd if you can 23:36 thd maybe remove the last couple of parameter strings 23:37 thd kados: that is meant to be a link to the subject authority for United States 23:38 kados wow, quite complete 23:38 kados so what's the next step for our example on koha.liblime.com? 23:38 thd which is 151? 23:39 thd kados: you should just put some alternate names like US and USA for United States into 4XX fields 23:40 thd kados: That allows you to see searching for USA allows you to find United States 23:41 thd kados: If you have deleted all the 4XX 5XX etc. fields from your framework that would not work :) 23:42 thd kados: Oh yes, 151 is a geographical name 23:45 kados thd: understand that all i have in my records right now is 100 and 010 23:45 kados thd: and I would like to get a demo going tonight for just those :-) 23:46 kados thd: so I can go back to a client and say "here's how this works ..." 23:46 kados thd: because right now I can't figure out how to use authorities in Koha 23:46 thd kados: ok but those are not nearly as much fun :) 23:46 kados thd: does that make sense? 23:46 thd kados: yes 23:46 kados http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/authorities/detail.pl?authid=1 23:46 kados so, given that authority record, how can I use it in Koha? 23:47 kados do I need to modify my MARC Bibliographic Framework? 23:48 thd kados: let us add something small to the authority record 23:48 kados what's that? 23:50 kados thd: ? 23:51 thd kados: I added Kerr, Kathy in a 4XX just for fun 23:52 kados k 23:52 kados now what? 23:52 thd kados now we edit the bibliographic framework to use the authority 23:53 kados ok, I'm in subfields for 100a now 23:53 kados thesaurus AUTHOR ... is it that simple? 23:54 kados ok, I added that 23:54 kados now what? 23:55 thd we both added it 23:55 kados that should be ok 23:56 kados what's the next step? 23:56 thd kados: now create a new bibliographic record or edit an existing one 23:57 thd when you come to 100 $a you can fill it from the authority record 23:57 thd kados: you can even search for Kathy Kerr and find the correct authorised value 23:58 kados I can't seem to find Kathy Kerr on the authorities search 23:59 thd kados: use the values or '...' at 100 00:00 kados yea, i am 00:00 kados I can't find Kerr 00:01 thd kaos: yes I cannot find the main name even searching the main authorities search 00:02 kados I suspect this search suffers from the same problems as the search of the repository 00:02 thd kados: what is wrong with repository searches 00:02 kados here's the mysql: 00:02 thd ? 00:02 kados select distinct m1.authid from auth_header,auth_subfield_table as m1 where m1.authid=auth_header.authid and auth_header.authtypecode=? and (m1.subfieldvalue like 'Kerr, Kathleen%' and m1.tag+m1.subfieldcode in ('100a')) 00:02 kados thd: they often cannot find things in the repositry :-) 00:03 thd kados: this worked perfectly when i tried it under 2.2.4 00:04 thd kados: and it had made me very happy with only a little frown when I found that it was restricted to $a 00:06 kados mysql> select * from auth_header; +--------+--------------+-------------+--------------+------------+| authid | authtypecode | datecreated | datemodified | origincode |+--------+--------------+-------------+--------------+------------+| 1 | | 2006-03-01 | NULL | NULL | 00:06 kados mysql> select * from auth_subfield_table; 00:06 kados +------------+--------+-----+----------+---------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+ 00:07 kados | subfieldid | authid | tag | tagorder | tag_indicator | subfieldcode | subfieldorder | subfieldvalue | 00:07 kados | 2 | 1 | 100 | 25 | 10 | a | 1 | Kerr, Kathleen | 00:07 kados | 3 | 1 | 400 | 43 | | a | 1 | Kerr, Kathy | 00:07 kados looks like it's missing authtypecode in auth_header 00:07 kados that could be the problem 00:09 thd kados: did you create that without selecting the author framework? 00:20 thd kados: I think something went worng when you created that authority record. 00:21 thd kados: I created a record for Joshua M. Ferraro 00:21 thd kados: I can find that record by searching on kados 00:23 kados hehe 00:23 kados I may has set it up wrong 00:23 kados let me see if I can fix it 00:25 thd kados; I think you need the default template for it to work well though 00:27 kados yep 00:27 kados switching back :/ 00:27 kados I'll bug owen tomorrow to fix it 00:31 thd kados: did you turn MARC off? 00:31 thd The MARC editor is gone 00:34 kados I didn't 00:34 kados but someone may have 00:36 kados ok, I'm going to see if I can get owen to take a stab at fixing npl templates 00:36 kados to work with authorities 00:36 kados thanks for walking through it with me thd 00:36 kados i think I get the basic idea 00:37 kados even if I can't get it to actually work :-) 00:37 thd kados: It is a fantastic feature 00:38 thd paul did a very good job with the minor qualification of the $a limitation 00:39 thd kados: Currently, there is no support for tracings and references searches in the OPAC so that searches for kados can find Joshua 00:41 thd kados: paul had suggested that he would add it to the OPAC for 3.0 00:48 kados cool 00:49 kados so what's the point of having so many fields in an authority record if we can only use $a? 00:50 thd kados: $a is a subfield. You can use subfield $a in many fields 00:51 kados right, but in the framework I see lots of other subfields 00:51 thd kados: Of course the $a restriction should be corrected. That is a bug/design error. 00:51 kados I guess my question is 00:51 kados I understand that I can create a authority record for 'Joshua Ferraro' 00:52 kados and then, in the OPAC I should be able to search for the authority record, then pull up all the records that are linked to that authority 00:52 kados but what else can authorities be used for? 00:53 thd filling the authorised value when creating records 00:53 kados right 00:53 kados but what did you do where you could search for 'kados' 00:54 thd kados: changing all the authorities at once when you acquire some distinguished title like King Joshua 00:55 thd kados: All the bibliographic records should then change to match the authority 00:55 kados ooh ... I like that feature :-) 00:55 thd kados: Of course titles go in a different subfield from $a 00:55 kados so what is the $a restriction? 00:56 thd kados: as do dates to distinguish you from all the other Joshua M. Ferraros in the world. 00:58 thd kados: single subfield restrictions are an artifact of separating everything in a record into separate SQL rows by subfield 00:58 thd kados: There is no reason that could not be fixed even with records in SQL 01:00 kados why wasn't the AUTH framework identical to the MARC BIB framework so it wouldn't have this limitation> 01:00 thd kados: the returned result just needs to be a composite of all subfields needed from the required field just as it is now in the subject searching for subdivided subjects 01:01 thd kados: the same limitation is really present in the bibliographic frameworks 01:01 kados I don't understand the limitation 01:01 kados could you explain it in simple language :-) 01:01 thd kados: the starting point and filling point is based around individual subfields rather than fields as a whole 01:02 kados what are the starting point and filling point? 01:03 thd kados: starting point is where Koha tables links to a single MARC field/subfield pair. 01:04 thd kados: So biblio.author is linked to 100a 01:04 thd kados: when really it should be linked to 100 as a whole in the bibliographic record. 01:05 thd kados: yet as paul implemented MARC in SQL the anchor or starting point is 100a not 100 01:07 thd kados: Then you add see also references, plugins etc. to 100a not to 100 as a whole or to the groups of relevant subfields. 01:08 kados I see 01:08 thd kados: Therefore when filling 100a from a plugin only 100a is filled not all applicable subfields in 100 01:09 kados so you end up needint more than one plugin and you must repeat the authorities search to fill the other values, eh? 01:09 kados it seems like you should be able to fill the other values based soley on the id of the authority 01:09 kados using the technique paul told me about to fill other subfields with a single plugin 01:09 thd kados: authorities only work on $a. More than one plugin is not the solution. 01:09 kados would that fix the problem as you see it? 01:10 kados what if the $a plugin was able to pull out values for all the subfields and populate them 01:10 thd kados: yes fill multiple subfields with one plugin 01:10 kados ok ... once I get owen to fix the authorities support in the npl template I'll work on a few authorities plugins 01:11 kados in the meantime, I've got a couple of scripts from hdl 01:11 thd kados: and search multiple subfields with one plugin 01:11 kados one called buildEditors.pl 01:11 kados and one called build_authorities.pl 01:11 kados looks like they are used to build authorities lists from existing data 01:11 kados I'm wondering if it is possible to build such authorities 01:12 thd kados: I presume those are UNIMARC only so you would need to modify them for MARC 21. 01:12 kados and then append a new list as you recieve new authorities from your cataloging source 01:12 kados yes I will need to modify them 01:12 kados perhaps you can help me 01:12 kados want me to mail them to you? 01:13 kados mail sent 01:13 kados liblime at agogme.com :-) 01:13 thd kados: hdl sent them to me too when I asked. They are just updated versions of what has already been there I presume. 01:13 kados ahh 01:13 kados sorry to fill up your inbox then :-) 01:14 thd kados: There are others and a script to manage it all documented in something paul wrote that appears on kohadocs.org 01:15 thd kados: I have plenty of space in that box. 01:15 thd kados: As long as you do not send a 20MB attachment. 01:16 thd kados: authorities built from the bibliographic record are the poor man's weak authorities. 01:17 thd kados: They necessarily contain no tracings and references. They have only the authorised form. 01:17 thd kados: Therefore, you cannot find United States by searching for USA 01:19 thd kados; The right thing to do is create a working bulkauthimport.pl and acquire a complete set of authorities from LC. 01:19 thd kados: you can then give away authority records to all your customers. 01:21 thd kados: You could even charge a fee for the authority records. 01:22 kados how can I obtain a set of authorities from LC? 01:22 kados can I simply use my current customer's authority records? 01:23 thd kados: You could possibly make an arrangement with a MARC records reseller for LC authority records that may be limited to redistribution to your customers. That should lower the cost significantly. 01:24 thd kados: They are free to copy if you can find them anywhere. 01:26 thd kados: the average patron or even the average librarian cannot be expected to know the required authorised heading for a successful search much of the time. 01:26 thd kados: good authority records in a system able to use them can correct that. 01:27 thd kados: Sirsi Unicorn had been about the only ILS that uses authority searching in the OPAC. 01:28 thd maybe the only one absolutely 01:29 thd kados: Koha should be even better than Sirsi Unicorn 01:30 kados I'm sure it will be once we get a decent authorities file in there 01:31 kados thd: we've made good progress over the past few weeks 01:31 thd kados: fantastic progress 01:32 kados thd: should we work on a bulkauthimport.pl next? 01:34 thd kados: In terms of priorities I would think that fixing MARC-8 and ISO 5426 at least for UNIMARC in rel_2_2 is more important to correct the obvious bug. 01:34 kados thd: didn't you hear? 01:34 thd kados: I know MARC-8 is fixed for XML 01:34 kados thd: the new version of MARC::File::XML automatically converts MARC-8 to UTF-8 01:35 kados and since we run all edited records through MARC::File::XML, that problem is solved 01:35 thd kados: That does not help rel_2_2 or UNIMARC even in 3.0 01:35 kados ? 01:35 kados why not? 01:36 kados maybe I don't understand the problem 01:36 thd kados: are you running all edited records through XML in rel_2_2? 01:36 kados yep 01:36 thd kados: Ok but UNIMARC never uses MARC-8. 01:37 kados if position 9 in the leader says it's MARC-8, MARC::XML::File changes it to utf-8 01:37 kados otherwise it leaves it alone 01:37 kados so what's the problem? 01:37 thd kados: UNIMARC has several possible encodings rather than one comprehensive one. 01:38 thd kados: ISO-5426 is the encoding usually used for European languages in UNIMARC. 01:40 thd kados: It has been possible to obtain records from BNF in ISO-8859-1, which is not a standard UNIMARC encoding so the problem has been partially mitigated. 01:41 kados thd: I don't have any UNIMARC clients and I don't expect I ever will :-) 01:41 kados thd: so that's a problem for paul to address :-) 01:42 thd kados: OK, I want my multi-MARC library system that can freely translate between one MARC and another so I can obtain record from anywhere. 01:43 thd kados: There is a Perl module for translating ISO-5426. 01:44 thd kados: It was originally written for German MAB records. 01:45 thd kados: So bulkauthimport.pl is next along with more and better plugin support in the record editor and improving the framework. 01:45 kados thd: cool, so we can just pre-process UNIMARC records with that perl module 01:45 kados ok ... 01:46 kados so you're almost done with the framework right? 01:46 thd kados: yes it works just like the similar MARC-8 module from Ed Summers. 01:47 thd kados: Although it only covers European characters with diacritical marks. 01:47 thd kados: yes, almost done with the framework 01:49 thd kados: Also a better Z39.50 module is needed. I had been working on that until I started working on the framework. 01:51 thd kados: Your most likely customers would probably have more appreciation of a better record editor and a better Z39.50 client than authority support. 01:52 thd kados: Also, good authority support is likely to mean investing money in a subscription to authority records to realise the advantage for your customers. 01:55 thd kados: Software that present Koha customers look at has no authority support but definitely have better Z39.50 clients. 01:56 kados yep 01:56 kados our z-client is pretty bad 01:57 thd kados: It should be easy to surpass the Z39.50 clients in competing software but you would need the right documentation from Mike Taylor to make that work in Perl::Zoom. 01:58 thd kados: I have a good amount of understanding invested in PHP/Yaz 01:59 thd kados: Perl::Zoom is the way to go if you can get Mike to document non-blocking queries of multiple targets. 02:00 thd kados: I have been experimenting with Z39.50 clients since BookWhere was born. 02:02 thd kados: BookWhere which was based on the free software CanSearch uses Z39.50 explain to find what syntax the targets support and reduce errors from using the wrong syntax on a client that does not support it. 02:03 thd kados: Of curse that is advanced, functionality. 02:06 thd kados: My user interface has not been rewritten for drop down fielded forms and I am downloading all records instead of choosing one so far. 05:37 osmoze hello 06:09 |hdl| hello osmoze