IRC log for #koha, 2005-12-08

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
11:48 |hdl| He will be but only tomorrow
15:51 kados hi there osmoze
15:51 kados osmoze: did you happen to see my message to koha-devel requesting updates on work for 3.0?
15:51 kados osmoze: are there any projects you're working on that I should include?
15:52 kados indradg: same question for you :-)
17:34 indradg hi
17:34 indradg kados, was away
17:36 akn hello people
17:36 indradg akn, hi
17:38 akn I'm working on searching with the z3950 client in v.2.2.4.  Are there known issues that make this more than a no-brainer?
17:38 indradg akn, well.. it works out of the box for me...
17:40 indradg akn, what is processz3950queue script showing in your case... when u try a z39.50 search?
17:42 akn let me check and get back with you.  The z3950 log didn't seem to be too helpful.
17:45 akn This is what I get running it after a search:  Can't locate C4/ in @INC (@INC contains: /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.6/i586-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.6 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.​8.6/i586-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.6 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5​.8.6/i586-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.6 /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl .)...
17:45 akn ./processz3950queue line 5.'
17:45 indradg aah
17:46 indradg akn, where have u installed Koha?
17:46 indradg brb... disconnecting this comp
17:47 akn at 'usr/local/koha'
17:48 indradg akn, can u tell me the path to the folder where u have installed koha?
17:49 akn it's at '/usr/local/koha/' etc
17:49 indradg ok
17:50 indradg so before you try to run the ./processz3950queue script do this -> export PERL5LIB=/usr/local/koha/intranet/modules
17:50 indradg akn, and then invoke the script
17:51 indradg for example in my case when I search for "Schindler's List"... i get the following output from the script ->
17:51 indradg 11202/9 : Processing title=Schindler's List at LibraryOfCongress voyager MARC21 (1 forks)
17:51 indradg 11202/9 : 2 >>
17:51 indradg 11202/9 : creating and 11202/9 : working on results entry 9
17:51 indradg 11202/9 : connected to LibraryOfCongress
17:51 indradg 11202/9 : LibraryOfCongress : 46 records found, retrieving them (max 80)
17:51 indradg 11202/9 : LibraryOfCongress : records retrieved 46 SPEED: 0.5
17:51 indradg 11202/9 : search done.
17:51 indradg akn, of course YMMV if you use a different server
17:52 akn Here is the latest:
17:52 akn 4963/8 : creating and 4963/8 : working on results entry 15
17:52 akn 4963/8 : connected to LOC
17:52 akn 4963/8 : LOC : 1 records found, retrieving them (max 80)
17:52 akn 4963/8 : search done.
17:52 thd akin: you also need to export the KOHA_CONF environment variable.
17:52 akn 4953/5 : LOC : 29 records found, retrieving them (max 80)
17:52 akn 4951/4 : LOC : records retrieved 29 SPEED: 0.85
17:52 akn 4951/4 : search done.
17:52 akn 4953/5 : LOC : records retrieved 29 SPEED: 0.82
17:52 akn 4953/5 : search done.
17:52 akn                                          
17:53 indradg akn, it works!
17:54 akn indradg, what am I missing?  What about thd's export suggestion?
17:54 thd akin the part people have difficulty with seems be getting the results to appear in the browser popup window.
17:55 akn thd, exactly!
17:56 thd akin: KOHA_CONF should have the same value that it has in /etc/koha.conf
17:58 thd akin: what OS are you running Koha on?
17:59 akn thd, SUSE 9.3
17:59 akn
18:00 kados indradg: you still here?
18:00 indradg kados, yup... but fairly sleepy ;)
18:00 thd There are several issues for the popup
18:00 kados indradg: I'm wondering whether you had a chance to read the latest mail i sent to koha-devel
18:00 kados indradg: and whether you had any commitments i should know about for 3.0
18:00 akn thd, here's my koha.conf
18:00 akn database=Koha
18:01 akn hostname=localhost
18:01 kados (so I can be sure to include them on the roadmam)
18:01 akn user=kohaadmin
18:01 akn pass=v1i9g9o7r
18:01 akn intranetdir=/usr/local/koha/intranet
18:01 akn opacdir=/usr/local/koha/opac
18:01 akn kohalogdir=/usr/local/koha/log
18:01 akn kohaversion=2.2.4
18:01 akn httpduser=wwwrun
18:01 akn intrahtdocs=/usr/local/koha/i​ntranet/htdocs/intranet-tmpl
18:01 akn opachtdocs=/usr/local/koha/opac/htdocs/opac-tmpl
18:01 akn                                          
18:01 indradg kados, i did... and i felt it was vainly disguised attempt to get dumb (PHP) folks like me in learning to perl coding ;-)
18:01 kados indradg: hehe
18:02 indradg kados, but seriosly... the few things i've playing around with are
18:02 indradg kados, a) web-based installer (like wordpress and moodle)
18:02 kados interesting
18:03 indradg rather I shud say "configurator"
18:03 kados right
18:04 indradg b) a module to generate member ID cards from inside Koha -- i'm using glabels to generate the template
18:04 kados could you expand on that one a bit?
18:04 kados what exactly does it do? print out the card itself?
18:05 kados that'd be a killer feature to demo at a con :-)
18:05 indradg yes... thats the objective... using the users table
18:05 kados nice
18:05 thd kados: I will commit to to providing MARC-8 to and ISO 5426 to UTF8 support by April.
18:05 indradg parse the file and generate the PDF...
18:05 kados indradg: anything else?
18:05 kados thd: excellent!
18:05 kados thd: thanks
18:05 kados thd: have you been following the MARC::Charset discussion on perl4lib?
18:06 thd kados: Are we losing contributions from paul for six months?
18:06 kados thd: not sure
18:06 kados thd: you'll have to ask paul or hdl
18:06 kados thd: (I hope not :-))
18:07 thd kados: no, I only pay attention to that list very retrospectively.
18:07 kados thd: it's a good converstaion, might be worth looking at
18:07 kados thd: subject is "MARC-8 to UTF-8 conversion"
18:08 thd kados: I will have a look.
18:08 indradg kados, yes... a set of scripts to grab ISO images of CDs and hosted on a web-server using loopback and autofs and linked to MARC field 856 u (for CDs accompanying books)
18:08 indradg kados, right now its an ugly hack... i'm trying to clean it up for a client
18:09 akn indradg and thd:  thanks for your help; I'll dig about a bit and see if I can iron it out.
18:10 kados indradg: nice
18:11 kados indradg: so think you can clean up this stuff enough for our schedule for 3.0?
18:11 kados indradg: (ie, can you make it into 3.0?)
18:11 kados indradg:[…]ge=KohaRoadmap3.0
18:11 kados indradg: planning is at the bottom of the page
18:13 thd kados: I have been trying to download the Koha CVS tree from Savannah using async.  I have not got around my error messages yet.
18:14 kados thd: doing it anonymously?
18:14 kados thd: using pserver?
18:14 kados thd: or just cvs co -d:thd@...
18:14 thd kados: I have been trying to capture the CVS in place for maintaining a local copy with all revisions.
18:14 indradg kados, the CD imaging + loopback + autofs + MARC linkup has to roll out by end Jan 2006... should be done much before that
18:15 kados thd: you may need to tell savannah about your server's rsa key
18:15 kados indradg: any chance you can commit it to HEAD so I can take a look?
18:15 thd kados: I had told savannah my key.
18:15 indradg kados, gimme a week
18:16 kados indradg: great, thanks!
18:16 indradg np :)
18:16 kados indradg: how about another livecd? can I put you down for that too?
18:17 indradg kados, sure thing!
18:17 thd kados: you would have had some bug fixes from me a month ago except that I have not had any significant experience with CVS previously.
18:19 thd kados: I have been using rsync.  CVS will not capture the revision files only the state at a particular time.
18:21 thd kados: I had not realised previously how bad a problem it is that CVS is not a distributed system.
18:24 thd kados: If you have no experience using rsync against a CVS archive, I will ask the Savannah people after some more experimentation.
18:25 kados thd: I don't sorry
18:27 thd kados: Do you know any other method for capturing all revisions for a local copy instead of just one state?
18:30 kados thd: I'm not sure what the purpose is
18:32 thd kados: I want to experiment with the CVS revisions on my own system to understand better how it works and compare my own diffs locally against historical versions before committing..
18:32 kados thd: I think you're making it too complicated
18:33 kados thd: just grab the latest stuff, get it working, and put your revisions in and commit it back
18:33 kados thd: (my opinion of course :-))
18:35 thd kados: I know that is the CVS way which is why distributed systems have great advantages.  I am trying to obtain some distributed advantages even on CVS without having them actually built in to the revision control system itself.
18:36 thd kados: I make it no more complex than what it should be in the first place :)
18:38 thd kados: I do not complexify, the CVS system oversimplifies an intrinsically more complex process with which I have inadequate experience.
18:44 thd kados: Ordinarily under CVS, some complexity is transferred to user behaviour in working with the system.  I do not understand for example how to best ensure that my revision marked rev XX will be recognised as XX if someone else is also committing to the same file.  Is it merely infrequency of revision that protects against this?
18:47 thd kados: I mean code is marked as corresponding to a revision by revision comment when there is no guarantee that CVS will a sign that revision number if anyone else may be committing.
18:50 thd kados: revisions have numbered cements within the file.  CVS assigns revision numbers to the file.  What ensures that both numbers match?
18:50 chris you let cvs make the comments
18:50 chris in the file
18:51 kados thd: if someone else commits (or is in the process of committing) you have to update your version before you can commit
18:51 thd chris: I was suspecting that but wanted to see that actually work before committing the wrong way.
18:51 chris it works fine
18:51 chris i do it every day :)
18:52 thd kados: That much I did understand.
18:52 chris # $Log:$
18:53 chris for the revision log
18:53 chris # $Id: $
18:53 chris # $Id:,v 1.131 2005/09/22 10:01:45 tipaul Exp $
18:53 chris thats what the Id expands out too
18:54 thd kados: Your last point is but one of the arguments for a distributed system where the system partly addresses the currency itself.
18:58 thd chris: All my previous coding has been non-collaborative and I have never had to think carefully about how revision control works in practise.  I maintained my own archive tree that I understood better than any revision control system.
18:59 chris righto
19:00 chris the main thing .. and this goes with whatever system you use .. is good comments
19:00 chris if you write good comments explaining what you were seeking to achieve and why .. that plus the diff allows people to follow what you were doing
19:00 chris (cvs commit comments im talking about)
19:04 thd chris: I had read that CVS did not support some type of comments so my expectation that you provided had been mislead.  I expected that there had to be some functional way that users controlled this in their own behaviour in including CVS comments directly within the file.
19:05 thd chris: I am pleased to know that works as I had originally expected before I was mislead.
19:06 thd chris: As we discussed before most code itself needs more comments "warning insufficient POD"
19:10 chris yep always
19:22 thd akn: If you have an email address for me, I can send you a list of things to check based on my experiences helping people with Z39.50 in Koha.  They will also be in the FAQ in future but the Red Hat users seem to give up on Z39.50.  This should also work much more easily in Koha 3.0.
19:24 thd akn: Sorry, I had posted that message earlier but it seemed to have not been recognised.
19:26 thd akn: I know that you are using SUSE so everything must be fine :)
20:33 akn thd, thanks much; I am up and running.  Now to put some of my experiences into documentation form....
20:33 akn I hope to get it into the wiki before too long.
05:24 osmoze hello
05:28 thd hello osmoze
05:35 |hdl| hello
05:37 thd |hdl| Did you see the forwarded copy of the message I sent to Paul enquiring about his six month absence from Koha?
05:40 thd good morning paul
05:42 thd paul: would you expect your absence from Koha to lead to a delay for 3.0 or a feature reduction?
05:43 |hdl| Sorrythd for there was a misunderstanding.
05:45 thd |hdl| Did I take an unwarranted conclusion from the #koha log?
05:46 |hdl| Yes.
05:47 thd |hdl| Can you clarify what I should have understood?
05:48 |hdl| paul is not leaving the project.
05:49 thd |hdl| I had not assumed that paul was leaving the project, merely that he would be absent for 6 months.
05:50 |hdl| He wil not be absent.
05:50 |hdl| he will be there.
05:50 |hdl| he will work, as he previously did.
05:50 thd |hdl| What was it your intention to convey yesterday?
05:52 |hdl| I wanted to say that paul will be busy with some contracts over the next 6 months.
05:53 thd |hdl| And simply not logged in to #koha during that time?
05:54 paul no. Just means i'll have 80% of my time on migrations/installations/teachings.
05:54 |hdl| And was out yesterday.
05:54 paul but i'll stay here of course. And still plan to release a 2.2.x every quarter !
05:55 |hdl| and kados seemed to be in a hurry to get information about planning.
05:55 thd paul: until 2.2.x gives way to 3.0 :)
05:55 paul not necessary. 3.0.0 will be for courageous libraries only I thinks.
05:56 paul thus, I plan to have koha 2.2.x releases for at least 6 months after 3.0
05:56 paul (s/plan/think)
05:58 thd paul: Do you mean that 3.0.0 will be expected to pose migration hurdles and new bugs lurking that all but the courageous will be wary of confronting?
05:59 paul thd : 3.0 means new technology (zebra / zoom mainly). So, for sure there will be new bugs !
06:00 paul (+ core rewrite & cleaning that may be sometimes a little bit too generous ;-) )
06:03 thd |hdl| paul: I am pleased to be concerned about phantom problems any day :)  I hope that at least the later sections of my message after concern over paul's non-absence are still modestly informative about my intentions for Koha.
06:04 |hdl| thd : hope so.
06:06 |hdl| But before making such a long e-mail on a public list, maybe you could ask the person responsible of your fear (here me) before.
06:06 |hdl| And I promise to take care about my words in the future.
06:06 |hdl| I am truly sorry.
06:07 thd |hdl| I wrote only to paul privately and forwarded a copy to you.  Maybe I used the wrong address for you.  The message was not intended for any list.
06:08 |hdl| ok.
06:08 thd |hdl| was that your list reading address?
06:09 |hdl| yes.
06:09 |hdl| for koha world.
06:10 thd |hdl| If you supply me with another address I would be happy to use that if it might save future confusion.
06:13 thd I also wrote paul about his system possibly posting koha list replies from last year in recent days.  That certainly gave me some confusion until I realised :)
06:15 paul at 1st glance. Then realised it was a 2 years old message
08:15 Sylvain hi
08:23 Sylvain am I wrong or the renewal date isn't stored in table issues although there is a field for it
08:33 paul hi sylvain.
08:33 paul chris (katipo) is circulation & reserves & renewals author.
08:33 paul sleeping actually.
08:33 paul so you won't get an answer from him.
08:34 paul but iirc, in issues, you have the number of renewals already done & the return date.
08:34 paul & nothing more.
08:35 Sylvain | lastreneweddate | date       | YES  |     | NULL              |       |
08:35 Sylvain is issues
08:36 Sylvain but not used by sub renewbook :(
08:36 chris actually im not sleeping yet, but im about to
08:36 chris and steve tonessen wrote circulation
08:36 chris but ive fixed/changed lots of it
08:37 chris i wrote reserves ... and non web based circulation and renewals
08:37 chris but i didnt write the web based issues and renewals
08:41 Sylvain good night !
09:50 kados Sylvain: hi there
09:51 kados Sylvain: did you see my message to koha-devel a couple days ago?
09:51 paul hi kados. Good morning
09:51 kados Sylvain: I was wondering whether you're working on any new functionality for 3.0 that you'd like included in the roadmap
09:51 kados paul: afternoon paul, you were missed :-)
09:52 paul (was lunch time)
09:52 kados paul: same question for you, and also wondering whether INEO has a timeframe for completing their projects, or whether SAN does ...
09:53 paul about SAN : a meeting should be done (very) soon, according to tech CEO
09:53 paul but no other news (except for some code around borrowers table that is being done)
09:53 kados good, please keep me posted, I have never recieved any email from any SAN folks
09:54 paul I had some phone news & question, but that's almost all.
09:54 paul & still no decision to involve me deeper in their devs
09:54 kados :(
09:54 paul about Ineo : i'm afraid we will have to wait until pierrick starts his new job (march, 1st)
09:55 kados right, it seems that's too late for 3.0 :(
09:55 kados it might take him a month to get oriented
09:55 paul right.
09:56 paul i'll try to organise a meeting with Ineo in january.
09:59 kados do you have any additional functions to add to 3.0?
10:00 thd kados: I assume you read the logs that the suggestion of Paul's absence about which I had asked you was greatly exaggerated.
10:02 kados thd: nope, i didn't :-)
10:03 thd kados: hdl's comments from yesterday morning were not stated correctly.
10:04 kados thd: I had assumed that :-)
10:04 thd kados: you have more experience with such confusions :)
10:07 paul (thd, don't remember we are not english natives. So sometimes we write something that you can understand not exactly as we wanted to see it !)
10:08 paul just an example : after my trip to Athens, in march, I wanted to say "I was very happy to meet joshua physically". Which would be perfect in french, but has a strong different meaning in english if I don't mind.
10:08 kados hehe
10:08 paul ;-)
10:08 thd paul: English is also a second language for me.
10:08 kados thd: what's your first language?
10:09 paul so : NO, I didn't met joshua physically, but YES, j'ai rencontré physiquement Joshua :-D
10:09 kados paul: hehe
10:09 thd paul: I do not know how to write in thought though :)
10:10 kados paul: the roadmap is progressing, there are just a few folks I'm waiting to hear from
10:10 kados paul: like you and hdl :-)
10:10 thd paul kados: thought has no alphabet :)
10:10 kados paul: I see commits almost every day so I know you're busy coding :-)
10:27 Sylvain kados, I have no new functionnalities for 3.0. All I'm doing right now is bug correction on 2.2.x
10:29 kados Sylvain: ok ... thanks
10:41 kados osmoze: hi there
10:42 osmoze heelo :)
10:49 kados osmoze: I'm wondering, did you see my message to koha-devel?
10:49 kados osmoze: could you let me know if you are working on any projects that you want to be included in 3.0?
10:50 kados Sylvain: will your bug correction be ported to HEAD (I hope :-))
10:51 Sylvain yes kados, when I'll have understood how savanah works :) When I've started working with koha, our cvs was configured bug now that I have to configure it I can't get it work ;)
10:51 kados Sylvain: let me know if I can help
10:51 Sylvain pv
10:54 osmoze kados>  i don't see the mail, but i don't working on dev :) i m just a testing man :)
10:55 kados osmoze: so I'll put you down as a tester then :-)
10:57 osmoze ok :)

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