IRC log for #koha, 2005-04-18

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:40 ben hi
12:40 ben brb
12:40 shaun hi ben, everyone else
12:41 indradg hi, i'm testing out z39.50 on 2.2.2... I have processz3950queue script running in a terminal... I'm only seeing some of the searches show up as they are taking place
12:41 indradg funny enuf the actual searches are happening and I can import the biblios
12:41 owen indradg, you might have to wait 'til paul is online on Monday
12:41 indradg i'm wondering why doesnt some of the searches showing up in the terminal
12:42 indradg kados, any idea?
12:42 shaun it seems that the searches take a long time - the ?? message is displayed before the number of searches, and remains there for a few refreshes...
12:43 indradg owen, thanks... will wait for the guru's return :)
12:43 shaun is that standard behaviour? if so, i think the ?? message should go, and be replaced with something more descriptive
12:47 owen I'm not exactly sure where in the process it gets the number of searches, but the ?? are certainly not very helpful
12:47 owen Take a look at the script to see if you can puzzle out where it gets that number
12:48 shaun *puzzles out :p
12:57 shaun <!-- TMPL_IF NAME="numberpending" --><h1 class="catalogue">Still <!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="numberpending" --> requests to go</h1><!-- /TMPL_IF -->
12:59 shaun somebody who has a good knowledge of perl/templating (not me!) should write some kind of if/else thing that will print a friendly message rather than the potentially confusing "Still ?? requests to go"
13:16 ben I concur
13:16 shaun *after wating 1/4 hour...
13:33 shaun is anyone apart from me here? | i request a change of topic to the koha logo...
13:40 owen I'm here, and I pay no attention to the topic, so just ask away
13:42 shaun lol
13:43 shaun is there a need for the egg design to be touched up?
13:44 owen rach is in the process of re-doing the original katipo templates, and is updating the egg design too.
13:46 shaun oh - how far? would we be able to get in on this...?
13:46 owen You could certainly ask her...but her specialty is design, so I think she's following her own path for the most part
13:46 owen No reason you can't go ahead with your own redesign as well.
13:47 ben yes
13:48 shaun Well, we are both designers (me: web, ben: usability), and we want to see the new logos to make them fit into our design...
13:49 ben shaun: code, design; me: usability, design
13:49 shaun that's a matter of opinion :p
13:49 ben meh
13:51 shaun is it always this quiet?
13:51 shaun I'm far too used to #gentoo or #fedora, i suppose...
14:30 owen It *is* the weekend, after all
14:35 shaun (i'd expect more people to be around on the weekend - do the Katipo people only sign in at work?)
14:36 owen Yes, Koha is part of their job, just like me
14:36 ben hi.. again.
14:43 owen <-- some things rach has worked on/is working on
14:46 ben that is annoyingly good..
14:46 shaun I have seen that - it is more impressive, but I doubt it it will be implemented like that without a lot of css hacks...
14:46 ben yesa
14:46 owen That's up to her coder
14:48 ben well, we are trying to make it look good without mucking about with fancy rubbish.. don't forget we are still focusing on usability
14:48 ben who did the v2 redesign?
14:48 owen paul
14:49 shaun "her coder" - who might that be ;)?
14:49 owen I don't remember offhand, which is why I didn't say a name
14:49 shaun ah
14:50 ben ok
14:51 ben paul, no offence and sorry to say this, but your redesign was gaudy, irritant, incomplete and code-wise, innacurate
14:52 owen Obviously!
14:52 shaun lol
14:52 ben however, it was the first step in making koha decent-looking, and what we are building on
14:53 ben at
14:53 paul_away login/passwd ?
14:54 shaun kohaadmin/hexthouse
14:54 ben kohaadmin/hexthouse
14:54 ben doh
14:54 shaun jinx.
14:54 shaun lol
14:54 ben (evidently, shaun is monitoring the chat more closely than me)
14:55 ben we did lift the tabs wholesale from, mbut we're working on those.
14:55 paul_away (and : about librarian interface. I just added CSS. Most of the look is katipo)
14:55 ben paul, we noticed
14:55 shaun we have only concentrated so far on the header excluding tabs, and making the rest of it look clean before we make it "impressive" - thanks
14:56 ben I am rewriting virtually all the text to make it more easy to use, like the issue with 'returns & return_waiting' earlier
14:56 paul_away the best now should be to add "option" as popup submenus when mouseon main menu (like "catalogue" shows "search / add / virtual shelves"...)
14:57 shaun umm, it was reserve, not returns - i thought i needed caffeine
14:57 paul_away do you have a sourceforge account ?
14:57 paul_away are you in the list of koha developpers ?
14:57 ben paul, somewhere; no
14:58 paul so, you MUST get one & work on official CVS
14:58 paul (head branch only, please)
14:58 ben paul: one problem, I spend most of my time in windows
14:58 paul I can add you as developper. Just send me a mail with your cvs accound.
14:58 shaun I don't like the idea of mouseovers showing subnavigation - each of the parts of the system should be kept as separate as possible, imo
14:58 paul not a true problem : CVS works well on windows. Ask Owen how to do ;-)
14:59 Ben ah well
14:59 Ben yes, ALICE does that, too well
15:00 shaun | i am on fedora, running the test server (*:8080 above), and know all the ins and outs of cvs having worked with apache forrest for a while - im digging out my sourceforge account.
15:00 paul a suggestion : my opinion is that having a different color for each module is a good idea.
15:00 paul Let the user see easily where he is.
15:01 paul like (for instance) yellow => acquisition, green => parameters or borrowers
15:01 paul blue => reports or authorities
15:01 paul ....
15:01 Ben paul, having different titles is a lot less of an eye-renching way of doing it
15:01 Ben :)
15:01 shaun about the colours: this has to be kept as subtle as possible - imo, the old design took the user away from the actual system far too much
15:01 Ben plus, it means that we don't need to do 8 times the image production we already have done
15:02 Ben yes
15:02 shaun I suppose we could have 'flags' showing the different sections - or just change the colour of the text on the tabs
15:02 Ben incidentally, I just completed production of an SVGof a barcode reader
15:03 paul (do you have something in your DB ? what should I search for ?)
15:03 Ben so we can indicate (implicitly) where / where not to use a barcode reader using a handy icon
15:03 Ben paul, nope
15:03 Ben nothing at all
15:03 shaun no books, only 3 members
15:03 paul VERY IMPORTANT thing : NO "images with text". strictly forbidden for translation purposes.
15:03 Ben something is screwing the z39.50 importing
15:04 shaun we fixed it (owen and i) - didnt you hear?
15:04 Ben paul, I do, and always have, concur(red).
15:04 Ben no
15:05 shaun use a title (eg "the client") instead of an isb
15:05 shaun n
15:05 Ben brb - fetching keyboard, papers, todo list
15:05 paul no, but let me know (on koha-devel mailing list will be perfect) if some bug has to be hunted
15:06 indradg shaun, I'm on 2.2.2 both isbn search as well as title search works for z39.50
15:07 shaun well, i am not a perl programmer - that "Still ?? requests to go" is very cryptic and confusing to a n00b (me a couple of days ago :p)
15:07 Ben shaun, another thing i'll be fixing in my extensive rewrite
15:07 shaun ben - didnt know you knew perl...
15:07 Ben cancel my BRB
15:08 Ben I don't, but 3/5 of that is in the tmpl
15:08 shaun no it isn't
15:08 Ben oh well
15:08 Ben not another thing I'll be fixing in my extensive rewrite then
15:08 shaun you've missed a lot - we were talking about it (im about to dig it out...)
15:09 Ben yes
15:09 shaun <!-- TMPL_IF NAME="numberpending" --><h1 class="catalogue">Still <!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="numberpending" --> requests to go</h1><!-- /TMPL_IF -->
15:09 paul I hope to read you on koha-devel soon ;-)
15:10 shaun ok - thanks paul, see you later
15:10 Ben bye paul
15:10 Ben thankyou for your help. < if you gave us help
15:10 paul_bed (i'll be on irc monday, not here the rest of the week -koha training)
15:10 Ben see you on mon then paul
15:11 Ben byeye
15:11 Ben brb
15:11 paul_bed (i'm GMT+2. If I read well, you're in UK, so we have close daytime ;-) )
15:16 shaun paul or another admin: my sourceforge account is shaunevans
15:20 Ben brb, fetching items
15:38 Ben back
15:39 shaun brb (rebooting)
15:47 shaun back
15:47 Ben hi shaun
15:47 shaun hi
15:47 shaun are there any admins around?
15:50 Ben typical american
15:58 chris *sigh*
16:00 shaun chris: do you have admin rights on the sourceforge project?
16:00 chris yep
16:00 chris and lets cut out the typical american stuff eh
16:01 shaun would you mind adding me (shaunevans) please?
16:01 chris can do
16:01 chris ur just going to work on the templates right?
16:02 Ben yes.
16:02 Ben mainly for our own library's purposes, though most of the changes we implement I feel should be adopted universally
16:03 Ben since, to put it crudely and bluntly, koha currently looks awful
16:03 chris your entitled to feel that
16:03 chris and if people think your right, theyll adopt them
16:03 Ben precisely
16:04 chris but there is no need to be nasty about it
16:04 Ben *mutter* whatever happened to equality..
16:04 chris same thing as happened to politeness?
16:04 Ben that's not nasty, it's crude and blunt
16:04 Ben apparently so.
16:05 Ben lol - I have just been told to respect my elders by an american
16:05 chris shaun: u are added now
16:05 Ben anyway....
16:05 chris what has the fact owen is american got to do with anything?
16:06 chris crude blunt and racist too?
16:07 Ben nope.
16:07 Ben I'll probably wake up tomorrow and wish I hadn't said any of this
16:07 shaun oops, havent been following this
16:08 shaun ben, please - for goodness sake, stop this
16:08 shaun thanks, chris
16:09 chris so take what i say with a grain of salt :-)
16:09 Ben but basically, I as a consciousness have equal rights to any other consciousness, e.g. owen, mr mitchell or anyone else
16:09 shaun "mr mitchell" - why mr mitchell ?!
16:10 Ben mr mitchell thinks he is superior to me because he is 35 years older, and he is not superior to me
16:11 chris i think the problem is .. you are perhaps a little forceful in espousing those principles
16:12 shaun why does mr mitchell think that and when has he conveyed that? I think that you are becoming unnecessarily arrogant about this.
16:12 Ben mr mitchell thinks that because he is an idiot; I am arrogant perhaps, but am mentally level or superior to him
16:13 shaun I object to that.
16:13 Ben I have spent much of my life struggling against the fact that people say '14 years old... immature, idiotic, hyperactive, stupid'
16:14 chris surely only 1 year *grin*
16:14 Ben replace 14 with my age at the time
16:14 chris so, i think this conversation is going nowhere
16:15 Ben so do I
16:15 chris i dont know you from a bar of soap
16:15 chris so lets just start over
16:15 Ben and I wish I could think of something to say that would stop me going on about this in such a stupid manner.
16:15 shaun I struggle with that too - the big difference is that I am responsible and polite, and make good use of my responsibility both in open source projects and in the outside world, you do not.
16:16 Ben I am polite when I want to be, and when I am in the mood to be polite.
16:16 shaun (sorry to draw it out, but...)
16:16 Ben currently I am in the mood for politeness, and so am being polite, including proper grammar
16:17 shaun you don't need to say that a website's or a product's design is shocking, pathetic, crap, or any other words that mean much the same thing.
16:18 shaun clearly you need to have a rethink about what "arrogant" is
16:18 shaun this is being logged, and i dont like it.
16:18 Ben me either.
16:19 shaun if you said this on an apache mailing list about their site (which i made a design proposal for), you would be kicked and beaten by now.
16:21 shaun chris: are you taking sides in this...?
16:21 chris none of my business
16:22 shaun o... maybe we should fight this out on IM.
16:22 Ben maybe we should just both shut up.
16:23 Ben I am not in a mood for fighting, least of all with you
16:27 chris anyway, i wish ya the best of luck hacking away at the templates, im going to make a coffee
17:02 shaun going to bed now - see you tomorrow...
18:33 rach and goes back to gardening
03:43 shaun Hi all
03:45 indradg hey shaun

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