IRC log for #koha, 2022-07-20

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:42 fridolin joined #koha
03:02 dcook_ joined #koha
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04:16 Oak joined #koha
05:09 JesseM joined #koha
06:26 dcook Configuring DSpace really makes me appreciate Koha...
06:26 dcook Koha might have a million options but at least it has options...
06:29 reiveune joined #koha
06:30 reiveune helol
06:46 cait joined #koha
06:48 cait1 joined #koha
06:49 cait1 good morning #koha
07:42 cait1 Joubu: looks like the caching issue is a bigger one?
07:43 Joubu I don't think so
07:44 Joubu talking about 31194?
07:44 Joubu bug 31194
07:44 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=31194 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart+koha, ASSIGNED , koha-marc mappings not invalidated in cache
07:50 paulderscheid[m] Morning #Koha
07:51 paulderscheid[m] Is there an api endpoint for querying elasticsearch?
07:51 paulderscheid[m] And if not, should we create one?
08:04 Joubu what do you need exactly?
08:04 Joubu search for biblios?
08:04 wahanui joined #koha
08:04 Joubu oops, sorry wahanui!
08:12 paulderscheid[m] I need to get the exact results of a query in elastic (or even zebra) via api call
08:14 paulderscheid[m] And machine readable format but that's a given
08:15 paulderscheid[m] The thing is, even if I created such an endpoint.. it would have to public for my second use case
08:16 Joubu bug 25870?
08:16 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=25870 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nick, NEW , Add a q_ccl query parameter to /biblios
08:17 paulderscheid[m] What's a CCL query?
08:17 paulderscheid[m] Ah found it
08:18 paulderscheid[m] I have to do one other thing which will take a while but I need this, so I will submit a patch
08:19 Joubu it's zebra's syntax, like 'ti:your title'
08:19 paulderscheid[m] For my use cases it would have to support both
08:20 Joubu '=' instead of ':'
08:20 Joubu yes, but we kind of convert the ccl for ES
08:20 paulderscheid[m] Ok
08:20 paulderscheid[m] That's good
08:20 Joubu so it would support both. I guess it was what tcohen had in mind with 25870
08:21 Joubu ask him when he is around
08:23 fridolin paulderscheid[m]: here is the one and only doc on CCL[…]oc/tools.html#ccl.syntax
08:23 paulderscheid[m] Thanks Joubu fridolin
08:24 paulderscheid[m] This will be my first patch ^^
08:25 paulderscheid[m] But guess I'll celebrate when it's past QA
08:27 fridolin bravo :)
08:27 fridolin champagne
08:27 fridolin \o/
09:07 cait1 paulderscheid[m]: I still always celebrate all my patches going in :D
09:10 paulderscheid[m] Haha ^^
09:10 paulderscheid[m] That's the spirit
09:11 ashimema Me too
09:11 ashimema When you've had a few in you start avidly following the gitstats too..  it's addictive
09:12 ashimema[…]ster/authors.html
09:14 ashimema Aim high.. I'm targeting the top 5 now.. top 10 was quite a challenge!
09:15 Joubu Same, opening a bottle of champagne every patch pushed!
09:16 cait1 Tom 10 IS still a challenge..
09:17 cait1 but there are a few inactive ones in there... so one day
09:20 cait1 Joubu: hopefully alcohol free... or I'd really worry about you!
09:20 ashimema How long was Galen around?  I remember him well in my early days and he still holds a place in my memory.. but I've not seen any patches from him in ages..
09:21 ashimema must have been super prolific for a while though.. he's hanging on to that 6th place hard..
09:25 Joubu This is the git command: git log --pretty=%an%x09%ad | awk -F$'\t' '!seen[$1]++'
09:26 Joubu[…]date-in-a-project
09:28 ashimema interesting
09:28 ashimema that doesn't match the GitStats at all
09:29 ashimema he active days is an interesting number too..
09:29 Joubu last author commit vs pushed
09:29 ashimema commits vs active days
09:29 ashimema ah.. of course
09:29 ashimema I see
09:29 Joubu I guess he wrote a patch in 2013 that has been pushed in 2016
09:29 Joubu which is the average, isn't it?
09:29 Joubu :D
09:29 ashimema haha
09:29 ashimema about right..
09:31 ashimema think I wrote my first commit in around 2009 but it wasn't pushed until 2011 I believe
09:31 Joubu you are right, that's not correct, I saw a patch from him from 2016
09:32 ashimema weird
09:32 * ashimema is such a stats geek
09:46 cait1 i think the mailmap and stuff might also factor in?
09:46 * cait1 catches some air after diving into currency bugs
09:48 ashimema currency bugs...
09:48 ashimema scary stuff
09:49 cait1 foreign currency handling in acq
09:49 cait1 still scary, but not the scary input discussion
09:49 ashimema very scary stuff
09:49 ashimema haha..
09:49 ashimema now that really is scary
09:49 ashimema enough to bring most grown up developers to tears
09:49 ashimema haha
09:49 ashimema that and floating point
09:50 * ashimema is thinking we should perhaps try adopting something like flatpickr for currencies
09:50 * ashimema has looked at a few over the years but never really settled on one
09:52 cait1 maybe, but that's the input issue
09:52 cait1 my issue is that we don't store an invoice price in foreign currency
09:52 cait1 which we should
09:52 cait1 we need to convert it too, but we also need to store the original price
09:52 ashimema indeed..
09:52 ashimema different issues
10:05 cait1 it looks liek 2017 me filed a lot of those currency related bugs already... (and I don't remember....)
10:07 ashimema haha
10:08 ashimema I've done that numerous times.. rediscovered things I've reported many years later
10:09 cait joined #koha
10:18 Joubu cait1: I don't understand your comment on 6514, why not a cataloguing plugin?
10:19 khall_ joined #koha
10:26 khall joined #koha
11:05 marcelr joined #koha
11:06 marcelr hi #koha
11:06 marcelr two cents from tcohen: what is the exchange rate ?
11:07 Joubu marcelr: don't take his argentian pesos!
11:09 ashimema lol
11:18 oleonard joined #koha
11:18 cait1 Joubu: how do you want to store the currency?
11:18 cait1 the problem they have is that they cannot enter $ 10.00 in the price field in the item - because it won't get stored
11:18 cait1 because the price is decimal - ther eis no way you can store unformatted text there
11:19 cait1 a cataloguing plugin won't help with that :)
11:19 tcohen marcelr, Joubu, ashimema: we don't even have coins anymore with this inflation rate
11:19 ashimema lol
11:19 tcohen good morning everyone
11:19 cait1 Joubu: they want to save what currency the book was bought in, is what I understand
11:19 marcelr hola
11:20 cait1 no coins? that's no fun
11:20 tcohen I mean, we have but no one uses them heh
11:20 ashimema I think the challenge is likely to be that we tie various functionality to those fields don't we cait1
11:21 ashimema like replacement price on lost status change?
11:21 cait1 that's another field
11:21 cait1 but i hink people still calculate on those fields
11:21 cait1 so you don't really want to store unformatted data there
11:22 cait1 I think some show the 'amount saved with your library visit' on checout slips
11:22 cait1 on another now... why woud this not work? /opac-tmpl/lib/famfamfam/silk/book_edit.png ?
11:23 cait1 trying to use a differnt icon in the OPAC
11:24 tcohen cait1: KTD?
11:24 wahanui KTD is fixed, but still sql error for aqbudgets table in kohastructure.sql
11:24 tcohen wahanui: forget that
11:24 wahanui tcohen: I forgot that
11:27 cait1 tcohen: package installation
11:27 oleonard KTD?
11:27 wahanui KTD is fixed, but still sql error for aqbudgets table in kohastructure.sql
11:27 oleonard wahanui: forget KTD
11:27 wahanui oleonard: I forgot ktd
11:29 tcohen ktd?
11:29 wahanui i guess ktd is KTD is great but ktd makes it better
11:30 tcohen haha
11:30 tcohen that doesn't read right
11:30 tcohen anyway
11:31 cait1[…]ilk/book_edit.png <
11:32 oleonard wahanui: forget KTD
11:32 wahanui oleonard: I forgot ktd
11:32 oleonard ktd?
11:32 cait1 ok, got it: /opac-tmpl/bootstrap/lib/fa​mfamfam/silk/book_edit.png
11:32 tcohen ktd?
11:35 tcohen nice, cait1
11:55 marcelr tcohen: the lists stuff is fine again :)
12:10 tcohen marcelr: :-D
12:10 marcelr great
12:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25498: (follow-up) Show error message when no sharee has email <[…]b57e669d8ba3d7938>
12:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 30933: Add lists methods for disowning <[…]5e6441edb286c7559>
12:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 30933: Unit tests <[…]5c394448da18293ff>
12:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 31179: (QA follow-up) Set field as hidden for tests <[…]18ae4dff140910f26>
12:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 31179: (QA follow-up) POD fix <[…]801661fe879cd23e9>
12:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 11889: DBRev <[…]5f92a88e776deb759>
12:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 31179: Don't copy invisible subfields when duplicating items <[…]8cc24384c3ee70081>
12:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25498: (follow-up) Change for autocomplete change of 30578 <[…]7cbded234b1efef83>
12:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 30933: (follow-up) Use cannot_be_transferred in shelves scripts <[…]38bd0e9d53d542c82>
12:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 30933: (follow-up) Consolidate transfer checks <[…]04a39f071a99ea60b>
12:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 30933: Database revision (new pref) <[…]86fb24b07363d3d4d>
12:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 30933: Adjust pref description, include ListOwnerDesignated <[…]e201219281a5e2cf4>
12:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 30933: Change for patron->delete <[…]eb4cd3e81c70d4d29>
12:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25498: (QA follow-up) Rename virtualshelfshare->patron <[…]85ed6b5be461dc56d>
12:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25498: Transfer ownership shared list on OPAC <[…]816f3832cfb6c1582>
12:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25498: Show transfer button for shared lists on OPAC <[…]c80e749b9e4662f68>
12:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25498: Add a transfer form for public lists <[…]9371fcc00cca12e17>
12:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 11889: (QA follow-up) Spelling <[…]d0dad08755a6fc2b1>
12:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 25498: Add transfer button on intranet <[…]223e455a19ca81adb>
12:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 30909: Retain permanent_location if mapped <[…]eafcc9e4433199e0f>
12:12 marcelr tcohen: please move the atomic update from 30933
12:13 tcohen damn, I knew this was going to happen as I reset my branch :-D
12:15 Dyrcona joined #koha
12:20 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 30933: DBRev <[…]dfbeb49d0b33deec1>
12:21 Joubu tcohen: you should have a git hook to prevent that
12:22 * tcohen ponders
12:26 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_ES7 build #26: SUCCESS in 7 min 47 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]aster_D11_ES7/26/
12:34 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_ES6 build #24: SUCCESS in 8 min 3 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]aster_D11_ES6/24/
12:36 cait1 hm, is there an easy way to get a marc field in a TT notice?
12:37 cait1 I was trying to adapt htis one, but failing: https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ample:_Fetch_880_.246245-01_titles
12:42 Joubu do you get an error?
12:47 alohabot 🎁 🦄 Koha 'master' packages pushed to 'koha-staging' repo  ðŸðŸ¥­ðŸŽ‚
12:52 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_My8 build #925: UNSTABLE in 39 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ster_D11_My8/925/
12:57 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_MDB_Latest build #1021: UNSTABLE in 46 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]_MDB_Latest/1021/
12:57 cait1 Joubu: I think it got it mostly working now, but thx!
12:59 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_ES7 build #27: SUCCESS in 7 min 42 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]aster_D11_ES7/27/
13:00 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 30039: (QA follow-up) Change published on to publication date <[…]5d79330d1423b9c60>
13:00 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 31020: Fix PassItemMarcToXSLT in system preferences description <[…]f1476dc5315a94d1a>
13:00 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 26377: Simplify JS code <[…]b221a1251f664d632>
13:01 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 26377: Show when loading the page if needed <[…]4f21d689caae18902>
13:01 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 26377: Clearly label parts of that relate to optional item... <[…]9aa696646db351c3a>
13:01 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 27546: (follow-up) Avoid index clash <[…]77aa3861010320cf2>
13:01 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 27546: (follow-up) Escape new search string <[…]1896e5b35abef8c4c>
13:01 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 30039: Add published on column to <[…]7e55af303a03b4ec3>
13:01 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 27546: Add 'Search within results' search box <[…]4a957751fafd2e24f>
13:07 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_ES6 build #25: SUCCESS in 8 min 30 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]aster_D11_ES6/25/
13:10 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D10 build #748: UNSTABLE in 55 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_D10/748/
13:11 cait1 Joubu: I thin i am getting there: [% FOREACH field IN biblio.metadata.record.field("852") %]
13:11 cait1 [% field.subfield("a") %]
13:11 cait1 [% END %]
13:13 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 30570: Compiled CSS <[…]b73bcdf284c760757>
13:13 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 7660: Use first available categorycode when none passed in <[…]a1f8ed9152977495c>
13:13 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 30570: Replace the use of jQueryUI tabs in OPAC templates <[…]52f5e5b9554f27986>
13:13 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 30333: Move view actions on acquisitions receipt summary page into menu <[…]1c909d281374375ec>
13:17 alohabot 🎁 🦄 Koha 'master' packages pushed to 'koha-staging' repo  ðŸ¥§ðŸ§ðŸ¬
13:18 ashimema @seen liliputech
13:18 huginn ashimema: liliputech was last seen in #koha 1 week, 2 days, 1 hour, 18 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <liliputech> back
13:19 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U22 build #143: UNSTABLE in 1 hr 7 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_U22/143/
13:23 khall_ joined #koha
13:23 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_ES7 build #28: SUCCESS in 7 min 57 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]aster_D11_ES7/28/
13:32 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U20 build #494: SUCCESS in 39 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_U20/494/
13:40 khall joined #koha
13:40 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_ES6 build #26: SUCCESS in 8 min 55 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]aster_D11_ES6/26/
13:40 tuxayo meeting in 20 min!
13:45 oleonard meeting in 15 min!
13:45 cait1 oh ups
13:46 cait1 oops in English...
13:46 Joubu ho merde (in French)
13:46 oleonard Aw dangit in American.
13:47 alohabot 🎁 🦄 Koha 'master' packages pushed to 'koha-staging' repo  ðŸ‘🍮🧁
13:50 cait1 i feel like those are a little stronger worded :)
13:51 cait1 if someone else wants to add MARC stuff to notices: https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]#Access_MARC_data
13:52 Joubu you are not looping over the subfields
13:54 cait1 i am now :)
13:54 cait1 ah, a is not repeatable
13:54 cait1 in my example
13:55 thd joined #koha
13:55 cait1 it works in my template - only with a different field, I adapted the example for the wiki
13:55 tuxayo meeting 5 min!
13:55 tuxayo rmaints?
13:55 wahanui rmaints are lukeg, liliputech and tuxayo
13:55 tuxayo qa_team?
13:55 wahanui qa_team is cait, marcelr, khall, kidclamp, kohaputti, lukeg, aleisha, fridolin, ashimema, tuxayo, nugged, petrova and Joubu
13:56 oleonard oleopard?
13:56 wahanui oleopard is confusing wahanui with alexa or siri
13:57 * ashimema is overly sleepy
14:00 tuxayo lol
14:01 thd Many bug fixes can lead to much excess sleepiness.
14:02 tuxayo #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 20 July 2022
14:02 huginn Meeting started Wed Jul 20 14:02:10 2022 UTC.  The chair is tuxayo. Information about MeetBot at
14:02 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:02 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_20_july_2022'
14:02 tuxayo #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ting_20_July_2022 Today's agenda
14:02 tuxayo #topic Introductions
14:02 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries, Ohio, USA
14:03 marcelr #info Marcel de Rooy, Rijksmuseum
14:03 paulderscheid[m] #info Paul Derscheid, LMSCloud GmbH, Munich, Germany
14:03 cait1 #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
14:03 kidclamp #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions
14:03 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart
14:03 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
14:03 tuxayo #info Victor Grousset, Tuxayo Europe, France
14:03 khall #info Kyle M Hall, ByWater Solutions
14:03 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Theke Solutions
14:04 FlorianB joined #koha
14:04 tuxayo #topic Announcements
14:04 tuxayo Anything to announce that doesn't fit the other topics?
14:04 Joubu Yes, announcement, me
14:05 tuxayo 🎙️Joubu
14:05 Joubu (could have fit later but ... well)
14:05 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize
14:05 wahanui i heard #info Martin Renvoize was getting back the the Accounts Rewrite bugs
14:05 Joubu I will be on leave for 2+ months, starting in less than a month.
14:05 cait1 forget #info Martin Renvoize
14:05 wahanui cait1: I forgot #info martin renvoize
14:05 Joubu I have several things in the queue that would be nice to have for 22.11
14:05 Joubu especially because they are a nightmare to rebase
14:06 Joubu and I don't think I will pick them back if they haven't been pushed until then...
14:06 Joubu bug 27272
14:06 cait1 you already gave me a list with a few, but can you name them somewhere?
14:06 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=27272 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, stalkernoid, Needs Signoff , Move C4::Items::GetItemsInfo to Koha namespace
14:06 Joubu bug 30718 (and friends)
14:06 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=30718 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart+koha, Needs Signoff , Use flatpickr's altInput option everywhere
14:06 Joubu bug 30982
14:06 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=30982 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart+koha, Signed Off , Use the REST API for background job list view
14:06 Joubu bug 27421
14:06 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=27421 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart+koha, Needs Signoff , Porting tools/ to BackgroundJob
14:06 Joubu they are always the same...
14:06 Joubu (people wanted them, I wrote a patch)
14:06 Joubu Then, ERM
14:06 oleonard Joubu: I will test 30718 again soon
14:07 Joubu If we don't want it to be stuck for months, I need (at least) one or two of you onboard with me
14:07 Joubu You need to know what the current state is (see kanban)
14:07 Joubu and understand a bit of the code (I am currently more than 130 commits above master...).
14:07 tuxayo this one?[…]u-koha-erm/kanban
14:07 cait1 do youmean testing or actual developing?
14:07 Joubu yes, there is only one
14:07 Joubu There are missing tests, missing documentation, it's a lot of code and both ERM and Vue are new for most of us
14:08 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
14:08 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_My8 build #926: FIXED in 57 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ster_D11_My8/926/
14:08 wahanui Congratulations!
14:08 Joubu cait1: depending on your skills. Feedback from the UI/testing, feedback on the code
14:08 Joubu if we don't want the project to fail, I need help now. I will be able to answer your questions and it will be easier for you
14:08 paulderscheid[m] I can help with Vue if you want
14:08 cait1 say I have something like "input fields shoudl be longer here and there" - would I put that on the kanban?
14:08 paulderscheid[m] Sharpened my skills a little
14:09 Joubu Especially if we want a first shoot into 22.11 (which would help to get feedback from end users).
14:09 Joubu cait1: not about the UI
14:09 Joubu it should be rewritten using Bootstrap 5, but we are not there now
14:09 Joubu I don't care much about how the UI is (button too big, etc.) considering that minor for now
14:09 ashimema I'm out for two weeks from Friday, then have some urgent development work to complete the week after...
14:10 ashimema that kinda rules me out ☹️
14:10 ashimema but I was hoping to help progress all of them
14:10 cait1 ... and with 2 QAers gone, I'll need help too
14:10 cait1 and I am serious this time. The queue is too full already and we have 2 major QA people on leave soon.
14:10 cait1 Joubu: so UI testing should be limited to functionality not looks?
14:11 paulderscheid[m] Ah yes, summertime ^^
14:11 oleonard ...but lots of people on the QA team list, so we shouldn't be so short-handed.
14:11 cait1 yes, but we are
14:11 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U20 build #495: SUCCESS in 39 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_U20/495/
14:11 marcelr summertime is for all queues
14:11 Joubu mostly, yes. global ergonomic issues could be raised, not "button too big"
14:11 Joubu it's not there yet
14:12 cait1 when you say help now, is the intention to get this in before you leave? or what is the goal?
14:12 ashimema the ERM is an optional module isn't it..
14:12 Joubu cait1: to not let it stuck for several months, without move
14:12 ashimema how tied in to other things is it in terms of possibility to break other area's
14:13 Joubu it's completely isolated
14:13 ashimema brill.. I thought it was
14:13 marcelr experimental module..
14:13 cait1 yeah, I thnk we are having the same thought
14:13 Oak joined #koha
14:13 Joubu but no point to push it if I am the only one aware of the code (and not around)
14:14 tcohen we all need to be aware of the code sooner or later
14:14 tcohen to maintain it
14:14 ashimema I'll get up to speed.. but it'll likely be in your last week
14:14 * ashimema assumes he knows why your off and that assumes things don't happen early ;P
14:14 Joubu anyway, I didn't want to monopolise the meeting
14:14 tcohen it's a good thing to talk about
14:14 marcelr :)
14:14 tuxayo completely isolated: Does that mean it could be pushed with rough edges and in 3 mo you iterate on it?
14:15 tuxayo Does the stuff to do in a month also include integrating the Cypress tests in our suite and pipeline?
14:15 Joubu not necessarily
14:15 tcohen oh, that's a really good question
14:15 cait1 we have only about 4 months left - so close call, but maybe we could make it work
14:15 Joubu IIRC it won't work anyway, cypress cannot work without x server
14:16 tcohen we can have a headless X server, don't we?
14:16 tuxayo we can use xvfb likely
14:16 Joubu I didn't manage to make it work within ktd
14:16 tcohen ok
14:17 tuxayo It's a matter of time tinkering (during hackfest I tried to find a container with cypress and browsers ready but couldn't make it work with ktd...)
14:17 Joubu I don't remember the exact reason. And know I didn't spend much time on it, but I think I found something in the official repo's issue ssaying it couldn't work
14:18 tcohen ok
14:18 tuxayo Anything else to announce?
14:18 tcohen that won't prevent integration in the codebase
14:18 Joubu that's minor anyway, if we are 2 dev on it we can run the tests locally
14:18 cait1 we should add an info
14:18 cait1 about the leave
14:18 tuxayo right
14:18 tcohen tuxayo: I wanted to mention that ashimema asked me if we could test running a vector-im instance for the community
14:19 tcohen and I will set it soon
14:19 tcohen[…]nning-from-docker
14:19 tcohen element, client
14:19 cait1 ah
14:19 cait1 I was going to ask what that is :)
14:20 tcohen the idea is to provide more interesting ways for people to interact with the community
14:20 tcohen testing phase
14:20 tuxayo #infodraftJoubu needs help on bugs 27272, 30718, 30982, 27421 and ERM before going on long starting in less than a month.
14:20 tuxayo like that the note?
14:21 cait1 sounds good to me
14:21 ashimema a more modern webchat with access to our IRC channel.... thinking as a replacement for the current oftc hosted webchat
14:21 tcohen info Joubu needs help on bugs 27272, 30718, 30982, 27421 and ERM before going AFK in less than a month.
14:21 cait1 tcohen: let me know when it's there, happy to hang out and we use element at work
14:21 tuxayo #info Joubu needs help on bugs 27272, 30718, 30982, 27421 and ERM before going AFK in less than a month.
14:21 tcohen cait1: sure!
14:21 ashimema excellent
14:21 wahanui darn tootin' it is.
14:21 ashimema thanks tcohen
14:21 tcohen I'll call it
14:22 FlorianB joined #koha
14:22 ashimema Once we're happy it's ready we could tweak a bit
14:22 ashimema perhaps drop 'irc' as a wording and just say 'chat' instead..
14:22 tuxayo > vector-im instance
14:22 tuxayo Hosting a Matrix server and Element webchat? Shouldn't we try first to find a respectable already hosted public instance?
14:23 tuxayo I know already one from the collective.
14:23 tcohen tuxayo: that's a good option too. I prefer to try it to get used to it, but yeahg
14:23 ashimema the irc channel is already bridged to the servers and I think serves well enough
14:23 ashimema this is just to have a simple client and try to encourage people down the matrix/element path rather than joining with irc
14:24 tuxayo I used it a bit
14:24 tuxayo People managing it and the other services are quite active.
14:24 tuxayo Ah, hosting just the webchat
14:25 tuxayo To have a direct link to come here without creating an account?
14:25 ashimema that's the aim.. we'll see once testing
14:25 ashimema lets see.. give it a little trial
14:25 ashimema shall we move on?
14:26 oleonard We've been talking about it for ages, it's definitely worth trying
14:26 tcohen yeah
14:26 tuxayo That's great aim, thank
14:26 tuxayo *thanks
14:26 tuxayo #topic Update from the Release manager (22.05)
14:26 tuxayo tcohen: 🎙️
14:26 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
14:26 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U22 build #144: FIXED in 1 hr 7 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_U22/144/
14:26 wahanui Congratulations!
14:27 tcohen #info master has had some small hiccups, but I've managed to push enhancements and new features
14:27 tcohen #info tried to detect possible conflicts  with bugfixes as much as possible until last week
14:27 tuxayo what do you mean?
14:28 tcohen master has seen more than 500 commits in the last two months, mostly bugfixes
14:28 tcohen I mean that I started to push enhancements more often
14:29 tcohen been trying to mark things for stable and communicated with lukeg about must-backport stuffs for 22.05
14:29 ashimema tcohen++
14:29 tcohen there are a couple failures in Koha_Master that I cannot reproduce locally and cannot commit time to find a fix right now
14:30 tcohen I'm happy with the QA team so far, they kept me super busy pushing thing
14:30 tcohen s
14:30 tuxayo revert the culprit ticket? and the dev find it :P
14:30 tuxayo *let the dev
14:30 tcohen the problem is this has been like that for a while
14:30 tcohen before the 22.05 release AFAICT
14:31 tcohen and I cannot ask Joubu for more than he already does
14:31 tcohen Joubu++
14:31 ashimema this is the failing selenium test right?
14:31 tcohen (he introduced the changes in the testing pipeline)
14:31 tcohen yes
14:31 ashimema I've been meaning to take a look
14:31 tcohen it doesn't fail on normal KTD
14:31 ashimema but I'm not entirely sure I've got my head around the problem yet
14:32 ashimema yeah.. that's where I've struggled
14:32 tcohen it has to do with the way it is installed I think
14:32 tcohen also, I've been meaning to stop the Ubuntu 18.04 master job
14:32 ashimema good idea
14:32 tcohen as we don't really need to support it
14:32 tcohen and it has a failing test
14:33 tuxayo wait, it can catch early stuff that might fail when backported
14:33 tcohen ok, that's all from me. About devs, I will focus on some refactoring bugs Joubu already mentioned
14:33 tcohen ah
14:33 tuxayo Or if the probability that it helps it too low let's drop it anyway
14:33 tcohen it serves rmaints
14:33 tcohen ok, no problem from me
14:33 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
14:33 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_MDB_Latest build #1022: FIXED in 46 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]_MDB_Latest/1022/
14:33 wahanui Congratulations!
14:33 tcohen I will remove it from the 'Supported' tab
14:34 tcohen to avoid confusing people seeking for answers in Jenkins
14:34 tcohen ok, another thing I wanted to mention
14:34 tuxayo If it still fail constantly it not useful as a warning
14:35 tuxayo I think I had something that failed only Ubuntu 18.04 on oldoldstable and I reverted. I had not idea. Maybe it's the same ticket!
14:35 Joubu no
14:36 tuxayo Ah it was for Ubuntu 16.04 (bug30035)
14:36 tcohen this: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Build/testReport/
14:36 tuxayo so not related
14:37 tuxayo Ah this ><
14:37 tcohen I think it is just that the lib version doesn't explode the way our test expects
14:37 tcohen anyway
14:37 tcohen that's all from me on this topic
14:37 tuxayo ok
14:37 tuxayo #topic  Updates from the Release Maintainers
14:38 tuxayo rmaints?
14:38 wahanui rmaints are lukeg, liliputech and tuxayo
14:38 ashimema anyone know when lilputech is back?
14:38 tuxayo nothing interesting from me this month.
14:38 ashimema I have a few bugs I'm keen to see in the next 21.11.x
14:38 tcohen ashimema: urgent ones?
14:39 ashimema the analytics search error one.. the biblioitems acquisisitions on the api one
14:39 tcohen ah yes
14:39 tcohen we all need them
14:40 ashimema mm
14:40 ashimema indeed
14:40 tcohen I will contact liliputech
14:40 ashimema I think he's on leave
14:40 tcohen yeah, but will ask for permission to push things
14:40 ashimema I've been chasing them through lucas first 😜
14:40 ashimema but i'm aware next release is pretty iminent
14:40 ashimema brill
14:41 ashimema I can help pushing.. just didn't want to upset his queue if he has a method for working through
14:42 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
14:42 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D10 build #749: FIXED in 1 hr 1 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_D10/749/
14:42 wahanui Congratulations!
14:42 tcohen ashimema: ok
14:42 tuxayo There could be a 21.11.x ready with the bugs tested and applied
14:42 tuxayo *21.11.x fork
14:43 tuxayo So when they come back they just have to merge it and release
14:43 tuxayo ashimema: tcohen can you add 21.05.x releases candidate tag on the bug and CC if they need to be in the next 21.05.x also?
14:44 tcohen yeah, I try to do that
14:44 tuxayo So I can eventually delay the release a bit to be sure I get then from upstream
14:44 tuxayo *on the bugs
14:44 cait1 I was wondering, do you guys still work from git? like checking all commits for need to backport or do you have a different way?
14:44 tuxayo *and CC me
14:44 cait1 I noticed some bugs that had been sitting form around May mostly
14:45 tcohen there's one security bug that we need to add to the release on the last day
14:45 tuxayo cait1: I don't know about the others but I do git log on the upstream branch and process (backport or leave a comment telling I skipped) every ticket
14:46 cait1 That's good, thx tuxayo
14:46 tuxayo > I noticed some bugs that had been sitting form around May mostly
14:46 tuxayo Maybe there was a handover issue
14:46 tuxayo And some bugs where never examined
14:46 cait1 it could be, I CCd Rmaint with a comment
14:47 ashimema I had a script that ran daily to check master vs my todo list.. it would append every bug to my todo list
14:47 tcohen Lucas was out for a couple weeks. Maybe that's why some things haven't reached the 21.11 and 21.05 branches
14:47 ashimema then I worked through that
14:47 ashimema yeah.
14:47 ashimema timing..
14:47 ashimema all good.. I just have some squeeking customers 😜
14:47 tuxayo > I CCd Rmaint with a comment
14:47 tuxayo That's reliable for me but unless the other RMaint confirm it, we don't know if they can process all their bugzilla notifications
14:48 tuxayo The commitment for oldoldstable it way more managable and it's possible to follow everything.
14:48 tuxayo The other have also way more BZ notification since they touch more tickets than me
14:49 tuxayo moving on?
14:49 cait1 y
14:49 tuxayo #topic Updates from the QA team
14:49 tuxayo qa_team?
14:49 wahanui qa_team is, like, cait, marcelr, khall, kidclamp, kohaputti, lukeg, aleisha, fridolin, ashimema, tuxayo, nugged, petrova and Joubu
14:49 cait1 where to start..
14:50 cait1 queue is full of stuff, some from May
14:50 cait1 we notice the summer time and as said earlier, there will be people on leave
14:50 cait1 so if you signed up for the team, now is the time to step up :)
14:50 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_My8 build #927: SUCCESS in 39 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ster_D11_My8/927/
14:51 cait1 I still send weekly emails with the bad and the ugly
14:51 tuxayo cait++ for that
14:51 oleonard cait1++
14:51 cait1 anything to add?
14:52 Joubu you always forget the good
14:52 tcohen cait1++
14:52 Joubu :D
14:52 wajasu i will be around after next week to do signoffs so if anyone is in channel and sees me, please suggest which bugs have priority.
14:52 tcohen yeah, add cool things too
14:52 cait1 Joubu: that's a good point, I shoudl ty to point the good too
14:52 tuxayo wajasu++
14:52 tuxayo The good as in the easy and quick ones?
14:52 ashimema we should celebrate successes more.. Joubu is right
14:53 tcohen cait1: at least put your favourites :-D
14:53 ashimema I'm super happy to see the bundles/collections work in 🙂
14:53 Joubu well I was only refering to the movie :D
14:53 cait1 wajasu: ususally start with bugs (errors) and if you could look at stuff that has been sitting a while that#s great
14:53 ashimema I'm super happy to see some of the C4 -> Koha move stuff moving along
14:53 ashimema hehe..
14:53 ashimema yeah.. I know
14:53 wajasu cait1: ok
14:53 cait1 tcohen: I am not doing favourites, so usualyl don't want to single out people :)
14:54 ashimema but I do think it would be a good thing to remind ourselves that although the queues often look high.. there is still loads of progress
14:54 tcohen it is fair to ask for things you need/want
14:54 ashimema I often forget that myself and can end up stuck in nagativity 😜
14:54 cait1 yep, all good points will try :)
14:54 cait1 but you can always chime in too - that's how it's supposed to work
14:55 tcohen sorry for this
14:55 tcohen noise
14:55 ashimema wajasu, the dashboard is a great place to start.. I can give you some hints and tips on workflows
14:55 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 31192: Check for item before calling is_bundle <[…]b4f16bc6540ab47fb>
14:55 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 31186: Fix the hidingrules test for result numbering <[…]d1535874fb9ab3b61>
14:55 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 27045: (follow-up) Fix delimiter in header rows <[…]20bfe1e55762fab02>
14:55 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 30268: Check mandatory fields in <[…]5e22d5b67920d27cd>
14:55 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 27045: Fix other exports using CSV profiles <[…]85d2ed6de442e453c>
14:55 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 27045: Fix items lost report export if delimiter is tab <[…]cfdb8395ccea9e813>
14:55 cait1 we like this kind of noise!
14:55 tuxayo lol
14:55 cait1 tuxayo: move on?
14:55 ashimema I tend to pick a small one or two bugs to get me started then follow with a harder one to keep the queues moving.
14:56 tuxayo #topic  Status of roadmap projects
14:56 wajasu i'm getting used to ktd. with an easy bug. then will move on.
14:57 tuxayo Anything from anyone on a project?
14:57 tcohen #link
14:57 thd Deferred pointing to test01 for wiki testing while standing up test00 running on Debian 10.
14:58 tcohen #info ashimema and tcohen have been talking about spending some days on C4::Reserves
14:58 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_ES7 build #29: SUCCESS in 8 min 24 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]aster_D11_ES7/29/
14:58 ashimema +1
14:58 cait1 thd: do you still need testing, waht makes sense right now?
14:58 cait1 I saw tuxayo had left a commen ton the wiki bug
14:59 tcohen #info many things in the Roadmap have patches and need eyes/testing
14:59 thd Testing is still needed I just did not want to confuse the whole mailing list by changing URIs.
14:59 ashimema I'll be taking stock and getting back to the roadmap things once I'm back from vacation 😜
14:59 ashimema been a crazy few weeks... but then,, when is it not
15:00 cait1 thd: can you give the current one?
15:00 thd You would not be confused.  The same bugs will be present but I might only fix them on Debian 10.
15:00 bag joined #koha
15:00 cait1 I'll try to make time end of week
15:00 oleonard I've been working on follow-ups to Bug 30952. I'm doing some cleanup to reduce the number of template changes.
15:01 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=30952 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, solene.desvaux, Failed QA , New interface for staff client
15:01 ashimema oleonard++
15:01 tcohen great
15:01 Joubu thd: are you planning to go live on D10?
15:01 tcohen oleonard++
15:01 thd is not up yet.  I just now fixed a manual package override needed for running apt-listbugs for a kfreebsd issue nothing to do.
15:01 thd We should probably go live on Debian 11.
15:02 cait1 thd: just point me where i need to test - I'll try to spend some time Friday
15:02 thd Debian 10 has one slightly different package names.
15:02 Joubu thd: what's the timeframe?
15:02 tcohen thd: do you have an automated process for migrating the data?
15:03 thd The process is entirely automated as much as possible.
15:03 thd on Debian 9 is still current at this moment.
15:03 Joubu when will it be ready? What's missing? What's the timeframe? Do you need help? If so, what?
15:03 thd should become current anytime now.
15:03 Joubu I am tired of waiting for this wiki
15:04 Joubu I have helped 2 years ago, it was ready...
15:04 ashimema ++
15:04 tcohen thd: would you be ok with us launching a mediawiki instance in in which we use the automated process you come up with?
15:04 Joubu cannot we just go live "now"?
15:04 cait1 I am also in favor of a quick move
15:04 wahanui okay, cait1.
15:04 cait1 I think we coudl still fix some stuff later
15:05 tuxayo If the full size images don't work for now that's okay
15:05 tcohen I agree
15:05 thd There are a few installation bugs for changed package names which I may have now fixed.
15:05 tcohen thd: but what if we had the vanilla install sorted
15:06 tcohen
15:06 cait1 there is not a ton of changes on the current wiki, having a bit of a 'freeze' would not hurt a lot if it helps the move
15:06 thd Full sized images is not a problem with apache.
15:06 tuxayo good
15:06 tuxayo So any blockers?
15:06 thd It only takes about an hour to run.
15:07 thd Blockers are just finishing standing things up on Debian 10 which probably also works on Debian 11.
15:08 Joubu when can we go live?
15:08 Joubu we need a deadline
15:08 tcohen thd, I will send you an email about your automated migration process. So we can test it too
15:08 tcohen I really think we could simplify the process by using the OFFICIAL Docker images
15:09 tcohen as-is
15:09 tcohen I see there's a LocalSettings.php file
15:09 thd We should be able to go live by the end of Aug.
15:09 tuxayo great!
15:09 tcohen excellent
15:09 wahanui darn tootin' it is.
15:09 Joubu do we need a server?
15:09 Joubu or will we use the current one?
15:09 thd There are four LocalSettings.php files.
15:10 thd The current one runs on an old version of Debian which is needed to make it work.
15:10 tcohen ok, can you put some of those specifics on an email to Joubu, ashimema and I?
15:10 Joubu I won't be able to help
15:10 Joubu no need to include me
15:10 tcohen ok
15:10 tcohen include Joubu anyway
15:10 tcohen :-P
15:11 ashimema lol
15:11 tcohen I would like to know which MediaWiki version is too
15:11 cait1 if the process is almost done, maybe we shoudl not make big changes now
15:11 tcohen we need a sustainable way to handle the wiki deployment
15:11 thd We will need a new Debian 10 or 11 instance for live.
15:12 tcohen and I think the great job you've done with the migration process
15:12 tcohen could pair well with one of this modern deployment methods available
15:12 tcohen so we can team up
15:12 thd Changes are merely to have things running on Debian 10 or 11 and reproducible.
15:13 tuxayo > I would like to know which MediaWiki version is too
15:13 tuxayo https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]i/Special:Version
15:13 tuxayo https://koha-mw-my-test01-upgr[…]i/Special:Version
15:13 tcohen thanks Tuxayo
15:13 thd MediaWiki 3.5 LTS
15:14 tuxayo *1.35 ?
15:14 tcohen 1.37
15:14 tcohen 1.35.7
15:14 thd The scripts I have written can be adapted to any future update for testing.
15:14 tcohen ok, it is the LTS
15:15 tcohen ok, can you write us an email so we exchange information about the migration process you come up with?
15:15 thd Yes 1.35.07 which is the current LTS
15:15 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_ES6 build #27: SUCCESS in 8 min 31 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]aster_D11_ES6/27/
15:15 tcohen and then we can certainly provide you with the deployed mediawiki instance
15:16 thd It is all documented in git with a README.txt file.
15:16 tcohen and we, together, perform the final migration
15:16 tcohen so you don't need to spend a lot of time making MediaWiki work on specific conditions
15:17 thd However, definitely some bug fixes which I have almost completed needed for installation to work in Debian 10 or 11.
15:17 alohabot 🎁 🦄 Koha 'master' packages pushed to 'koha-staging' repo  ðŸðŸðŸˆ
15:18 tuxayo moving on?
15:18 FlorianB left #koha
15:18 tuxayo #topic Actions from last meeting
15:18 tuxayo « thd sends a message to the mailing list about testing the wiki upgrade »
15:19 tuxayo Still relevant? No, right?
15:19 tuxayo « cait finish the LTS drawing example with 4 rmaints and sometimes 3 »
15:19 cait1 I finished it
15:19 tuxayo
15:19 thd Yes, I deferred for sending people to a different URI for Debian 10 which is almost ready.
15:20 cait1 thd: I'll wait for that email then
15:20 tuxayo thd: IIUC it's not relevant and now the aim is to deploy
15:20 thd as not to confuse people on the mailing list by changing URIs.
15:20 tuxayo or is it?
15:20 cait1 the tables now show what it looks like for 1 year maintenance and 1.5
15:20 cait1 of the regular releases
15:20 cait1 that's the main difference between the 3 tables
15:21 tuxayo there are 3?
15:21 cait1 3=
15:21 thd still works fine and is perfectly good for testing but we might have some different bug with Debian 10.
15:21 cait1 ?
15:22 tuxayo There are 3 tables in the document?
15:22 cait1 oh typo, 2 tables, I am sorry
15:22 tuxayo ok
15:22 thd We cannot deploy the wiki on Debian 9 where all previous testing has been done.
15:23 tuxayo thd yes so having D10 working and then deploying. Without needing more testing
15:23 cait1 I think we had agreed on having the questions to vote for th emeeting, but we didn't do that - so maybe we can have the vote next time
15:24 tuxayo LTS: I think we need to have constantly 4 RMaints, because 1 year overlap isn't enough. Because the first 6mo of overlap are on the first 6mo of the life of the new LTS, so not enough bugs ironed out. So it leaves 6 months for upgrade.
15:24 tuxayo Which will be in the wrong year part for part of the libraries. Some do major upgrade in the middle of the year (summer in northern hemisphere) and other in the beginning/end (summer in the southern)
15:25 cait1 my feeling is 1.5 years as well
15:25 tuxayo Yes, otherwise the same problem as above will happen for libraries following the other releases
15:26 cait1 so next steps... mailng list email and vote on the next meeting?
15:26 tuxayo So does it make sense to have constantly 4 RMaints and not some cycles with only 3.
15:27 tuxayo « davidnind Extended support/LTS release - send notice to mailing list »
15:27 cait1 the 3 is because of the tls overap
15:27 tuxayo Did it happen and let's see what the email saud
15:27 tuxayo *said
15:27 cait1 I think no email yet
15:27 tcohen thd:
15:29 tuxayo > the 3 is because of the tls overap
15:29 tuxayo when the newer LTS is oldoldstable, the table shows the old LTS is dropped. So 3 RMaint needed in total. I meant that the old LTS shouldn't be dropped and we constantly keep 4 RMaints
15:29 cait1 then you get an even bigger overlap with the old LTS
15:30 cait1 we coudl do that, but we already have a year
15:30 tuxayo 6mo really
15:30 tuxayo the first 6mo of overlap are on the first 6mo of the life of the new LTS, so not enough bugs ironed out
15:30 cait1 maybe make a variation of the table with 4
15:30 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_ES7 build #30: SUCCESS in 7 min 37 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]aster_D11_ES7/30/
15:30 tuxayo So only 6mo of overlap and for part of the libraries it will be the wrong part of the year
15:30 cait1 and then we can add that to the vote/discussion
15:30 tuxayo ok
15:31 cait1 but do we agree on email on vote? then we can move on
15:32 tuxayo on email on vote?
15:33 cait1 we'll send an email to the ML and vote on the model next meeting
15:33 tuxayo yes
15:33 cait1 I see David said he drafted an email already - so I'll try to get in touch with him
15:33 tuxayo thanks
15:33 tuxayo #action  davidnind Extended support/LTS release - send notice to mailing list
15:33 thd tcohen: Starting with a blank wiki will fail as a process for data migration.  Starting with a base Debian 10 system to which appropriate files can be added by scripts on the command line will work.
15:34 tuxayo #action  Extended support/LTS release - vote at the next meeting with questions added to the agenda, those unable to attend (time zone challenges) can add their votes to the agenda
15:34 tuxayo « davidnind setup the KohaCon23 bid Wiki page and draft a message for the mailing lists: completed - wiki page KohaCon23 Proposals, development mailing list message »
15:34 tuxayo https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]haCon23_Proposals
15:34 tuxayo done :)
15:35 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_MDB_Latest build #1023: SUCCESS in 38 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]_MDB_Latest/1023/
15:35 tuxayo https://lists.koha-community.o[…]-July/047210.html
15:35 cait1 should we postpone the guidelines one? not sure which coding guidelines need to be updated and no draft
15:36 oleonard Yes, we're 1.5 hours in already
15:36 cait1 maybe... someon coudl just do it?
15:36 tuxayo ok
15:36 cait1 there is probably no need for discussion there :)
15:37 tuxayo Yes it's just confirming and having someone to update the guidilines
15:37 tuxayo But for the KohaCon, the draft is there, it looks good so who to send it now?
15:37 cait1 tuxayo: email went out
15:38 cait1 yesterday I think
15:38 cait1 so that's done
15:38 tuxayo Ah right!
15:38 cait1 just have to watch the deadline
15:38 tuxayo davidnind++
15:38 cait1 davidnind++
15:38 tuxayo #action  liliputech discuss koha CI (docker image built + manual build) hosting on gitlab instance provided by BibLibre's partner AFI.
15:38 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_My8 build #928: SUCCESS in 48 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ster_D11_My8/928/
15:39 tuxayo #action tuxayo postpone      Update guidelines with the replacement of jQueryUI Datepicker with flatpickr
15:39 tuxayo #topic  Set time of next meeting
15:39 tuxayo 17 august, same hour?
15:39 tuxayo For the next meeting of this timeslop
15:39 tuxayo *slot
15:40 cait1 we jused to be biweekly
15:41 cait1 did we change?
15:41 tcohen same hour would be ideal
15:41 tuxayo #info Next meeting: 3 August 2022, 21 UTC
15:42 tuxayo > did we change?
15:42 tuxayo No but the next meeting is for the other timeslot
15:42 tcohen ok
15:42 cait1 ok
15:42 tuxayo So I ask here for the next next meeting and for the next meeting I copy what we said on the previous meeting
15:43 tcohen we didn't talk about Gitlab :-D
15:43 tuxayo shoots I forgot "General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...) " and call for anything to say
15:43 tuxayo Any quick news?
15:44 tuxayo #info meeting after the next one: 17 August 2022, 14 UTC
15:45 cait1 tcohen: ?
15:45 tcohen Gitlab approved our Open Source Program status
15:46 cait1 !
15:46 tuxayo wow great
15:46 cait1 tcohen++ gitlab++ that's great news
15:46 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_ES6 build #28: SUCCESS in 7 min 45 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]aster_D11_ES6/28/
15:46 tcohen it was a generic response, they didn't answer specific things I mentioned on the details field
15:46 tuxayo they are flexible cool
15:46 tcohen they have a third party company that ponders cadidates
15:46 tuxayo lol
15:47 tuxayo tcohen++ thanks for managing to explain how we work and that even if we can't say we are non profit, we are respectable ^^
15:47 tcohen and they have an 'Exception clause' by which they can release the project from requirements for 'strategic reasons' (meaning marketing, etc)
15:47 tcohen that said, they don't mention anything about the exception being made
15:48 tuxayo Koha is strategic yay!
15:48 tuxayo (actually yes!)
15:48 tcohen or address any of my questions
15:48 tuxayo #info Gitlab approved our Open Source Program status
15:48 tcohen But I wanted to hear about liliputech's offer from AFI
15:48 tuxayo still relevant indeed
15:48 cait1 tuxayo: we are as a community non profit, the only thing we miss is some type of organisaton that could apply
15:48 tcohen we'll see how things work once liliputech is back
15:49 tuxayo let's wrap it up then
15:49 tuxayo #endmeeting
15:49 huginn Meeting ended Wed Jul 20 15:49:05 2022 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
15:49 huginn Minutes:        https://meetings.koha-communit[…]-07-20-14.02.html
15:49 huginn Minutes (text): https://meetings.koha-communit[…]2-07-20-14.02.txt
15:49 huginn Log:            https://meetings.koha-communit[…]20-14.02.log.html
15:49 tuxayo thanks all for attending
15:49 cait1 tuxayo++
15:50 tcohen tuxayo++
15:50 ashimema tuzayo++
15:52 tuxayo > we are as a community non profit
15:52 tuxayo debatable, the community is a structure that allows entities to collaborate and most of then are for profit. It's like an association of for profit companies to collaborate. Except it's open to anyone and we have like BSZ and Rijksmuseum collaborating also.
15:53 tuxayo The tool isn't neutral it depend on the members
15:54 paulderscheid[m] I'd argue that most of the related companies don't sell koha rather than hosting, cloud-services and therefore you could call it a non-profit project because on its own it doesn't generate any revenue
15:55 tcohen Joubu++
15:55 paulderscheid[m] That‘s at least LMSCloud‘s stance on that matter
15:58 cait1 tuxayo: you can use the software without paying anyone -exactly
15:58 cait1 you can take Koha, use it, make it your own etc. and there is no 'community version' of the software vs a paid for one with extras
15:59 tuxayo paulderscheid: IIUC it's the angle that for libre software, we don't sell the code of Koha so that changes the thing.
15:59 tuxayo But most of us are directly of indirectly making a profit on the bugfixes and enhancements we do to Koha. We sell the changes of the code before integrating them into the common repo. It's just a weird order ^^
15:59 cait1 then no OS project would pass
15:59 cait1 you can always pay someone to provide you services
15:59 paulderscheid[m] A non-profit organization is a group organized for purposes other than generating profit and in which no part of the organization's income is distributed to its members, directors, or officers.
16:00 paulderscheid[m] That‘s the legal stuff
16:00 paulderscheid[m] It a matter of interpretation ;)
16:01 paulderscheid[m] But I think you‘re right
16:01 paulderscheid[m] It‘s a gray area
16:01 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_ES7 build #31: SUCCESS in 7 min 40 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]aster_D11_ES7/31/
16:02 paulderscheid[m] But the GitLab thing is great
16:02 paulderscheid[m] tcohen++
16:02 cait1 agreed :)
16:02 cait1 heading out for a big, cya all
16:02 cait1 left #koha
16:03 paulderscheid[m] And of course anyone else who was involved
16:04 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U22 build #145: SUCCESS in 1 hr 7 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_U22/145/
16:09 tuxayo > you can use the software without paying anyone -exactly
16:09 tuxayo Which makes it a more sane model and is more greedproof. But that doesn't change that a grant to the project (with hardware ressources in the case of GitLab) will in big part be a grant to the for profit companies that contribute to it.
16:10 tuxayo > then no OS project would pass
16:10 tuxayo That's correct. Most the time it would be a big help to a for profit entity so if one is allergic to that that limits a lot to which project one can help.
16:10 tuxayo > you can always pay someone to provide you services
16:10 tuxayo It's not about what you can do. But what is done in practice. Most of active people in the community are on the payroll of subcontractors for a for profit.
16:10 tuxayo *or subcontractors
16:10 tuxayo > A non-profit organization is a group organized for purposes other than generating profit and in which no part of the organization's income is distributed to its members, directors, or officers.
16:10 tuxayo When the group is mostly for profit companies, transitivity should apply.
16:11 tuxayo And that the goal is to help the activity of the members
16:11 tuxayo It's not only about the members. But the finality also, the FIFA and the Olympics ™️ are non profits. But the largest finality is to sell us products through the massive advertising.
16:14 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U20 build #496: SUCCESS in 39 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_U20/496/
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16:16 tuxayo There is something that might change how we view things actually. Why only see the active people and entities in the project. But what if we consider all ten thousand plus libraries using Koha that are totally invisible.
16:26 tuxayo If they are mostly self hosted then the dozens of active contributors working for for-profits are a drop of water. But if they are hosted by small for-profit IT companies (that never contribute to Koha T_T) , we can still consider Koha a for profit.
16:26 tuxayo And that would be the dominant factor. Not the active contributors.
16:27 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D10 build #750: SUCCESS in 55 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_D10/750/
16:27 tuxayo So it's something about the taking the whole pool of payed work hours to work on Koha and if the pay comes from of a for-profit.
16:27 tuxayo What about Koha usage then? The number of librarians using it dwarfs all the support/hosting providers staff. And most libraries are non-profits.
16:27 tuxayo Then companies making all the non-libre ILSs could be considered non-profit. Because the profits to their shareholders are peanuts compared to the usage of their software by libraries.
16:27 tuxayo 🤯
16:27 tuxayo That's enough philosophy for today.
16:30 reiveune bye
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17:11 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_My8 build #929: SUCCESS in 1 hr 6 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ster_D11_My8/929/
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17:32 tcohen hi fridolin
18:28 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D12 build #210: SUCCESS in 48 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_D12/210/
18:53 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master build #2116: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 14 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_Master/2116/
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