IRC log for #koha, 2020-10-07

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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05:38 alexbuckley thank you davidnind for testing bugs 25460 and 26589 the other day! davidnind++
05:39 davidnind no problem!
05:39 alexbuckley :)
05:51 ashimema[m] Good morning
05:51 * ashimema[m] sends dcook cookies
05:51 dcook Morning :)
05:51 dcook Why do I get cookies?
05:51 dcook lol
05:51 dcook other david
05:51 dcook Makes waaaaay more sense
05:51 dcook Wait..
05:51 dcook No dcook
05:52 dcook I'm so lost
05:52 dcook davidnind++
05:52 ashimema[m] davidnind++ #mr SO machine
05:52 dcook Thanks for signing off my patch yesterday heh
05:52 ashimema[m] Just read your Facebook from two hours ago and though you could do with a more positive interaction dcook :)
05:52 dcook I just saw your comment heh
05:53 dcook And cheers :)
05:53 dcook Much appreciated
05:53 ashimema[m] Nice to see you sign up for QA team btw
05:53 ashimema[m] Welcome aboard
05:53 dcook I have to say though Linus gives me a run for my money in terms of length and verbosity of messages..
05:53 dcook And thanks :)
05:54 ashimema[m] Pooh, what did Linus do now.. assuming your talking about The Linus
05:54 dcook Oh, just saying how anyone who uses the sched_yield syscall is basically the worst
05:55 dcook I don't do enough low level programming to know if he's being overly harsh or on point though heh
05:55 ashimema[m] I think you mix in way more technical circles than me at times.. I'm focused back down to Koha possibly a bit too much at the minute.. I should re-broaden my coding really.. bit I love the friendly community here
05:55 dcook And an Erlang programmer having a go at someone for asking a question
05:55 dcook The friendly community here is the best
05:56 ashimema[m] Erlang is hard.. I'd be asking lots of questions if I  tried Erlang again
05:56 dcook A few months ago, I saw some rather bigoted things on listservs (not Koha of course) and it just had me shaking my head
05:56 dcook I'm mostly looking at a few concerns people have about RabbitMQ and its CPU usage
05:56 dcook and it seems like it comes at least partially from busy waiting/spinning..
05:57 dcook Which I get in concept but in practice... not so much
05:57 ashimema[m] I'm still keen to try and do a Koha lite or whatever we decided to call it
05:57 dcook I can't remember what we decided either heh
05:57 dcook Isn't that the way..
05:57 ashimema[m] But I'm not sure how to approach it.. needs some funding really
05:58 dcook Well, my first go at a Koha lite would just be with fewer required dependencies
05:58 dcook And then slowly decomposing things to be lighter and ligheter
05:58 dcook lighter*
05:58 ashimema[m] I'm sure there are some me lighter weight alternatives to RabbitMQ and Elastic out there that could give us 90% of what we need for the average users
05:58 ashimema[m] Yeah
05:58 dcook Yeah, I've been thinking about that a bit lately
05:58 ashimema[m] Decomposing would be great for everyone
05:59 dcook I'd be curious to see how the further move to Mojolicious will go too
05:59 dcook Julian was saying he was getting great performance with hypnotoad even for static assets
05:59 ashimema[m] But I don't think it's a priority for any businesses here unfortunately..
05:59 dcook (That led me down another rabbit hole of comparing major web servers and their sendfile(2) syscall support heh)
05:59 dcook Yeah, true enough
06:00 dcook It's more a professional interest of mine than a business one..
06:00 ashimema[m] Wonder if there are any grants out there that could help keep Koha runnable for poorer nations
06:00 dcook Hmm good question
06:01 ashimema[m] Totally.. personal and professional interest.. but I already don't have enough hours in the day to follow those
06:01 ashimema[m] :(
06:01 dcook Saaame
06:02 ashimema[m] With a grant I feel like I could give up some of the day job and focus on those more altruistic concerns like this
06:04 ashimema[m] Mojo is another area I'd really like to help move forward..
06:05 dcook I am planning to play more with Mojo
06:05 dcook I messed around with Mojo::IOLoop a little while ago and would like to look at that again
06:06 ashimema[m] Mojo is cool.. I'm really glad I got to code something's Ng fresh and new with it before looking at it from a Koha perspective though..
06:06 dcook Hehe I bet
06:07 dcook I was doing some OpenAPI work with Perl the other day but couldn't use Mojolicious... not fun
06:07 dcook In the end, I actually just used the OpenAPI spec to document it and didn't bother with any autogenerated code..
06:07 ashimema[m] Koha is awesome but it has one heck of a legacy and momentum which makes it really hard to make the most of newer technologies
06:07 dcook Mojo::IOLoop was interesting. Very minimal interface
06:07 dcook Yeah, it's what... 20 years old now?
06:08 dcook Definitely makes it tough to modernize..
06:09 dcook Huh... TIL that VMware apparently own RabbitMQ
06:09 dcook Don't know why I didn't notice that before
06:09 dcook I mean fortunately since we're using Net::Stomp for the connections, we can always sub in a different MQ
06:10 dcook (Although I think we do some RabbitMQ-specific stuff for it)
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06:13 ashimema[m] I've not looked at our us of RabbitMQ in detail yet.. I took a step back when I saw people more knowledgeable sounding than me looking at it..
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06:13 ashimema[m] Was more than happy to bow out as it's not an area I'm all that familiar with at the moment
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06:23 dcook I'm pretty happy with RabbitMQ overall
06:23 dcook Although the concerns that people have raised intrigue me
06:24 dcook Basically, RabbitMQ using a small amount of CPU constantly even when it's not processing any messages
06:25 dcook According to the RabbitMQ docs, this is due to "busy waiting", which they say you can turn off, but doing so only seems to partially achieve the goal
06:25 dcook They say RabbitMQ will sleep the schedulers, but I don't see any actual evidence of that
06:25 dcook Of course, I'm not too worried about 1% CPU usage
06:25 dcook But it's just interesting technically speaking
06:26 dcook So yeah... looked at the Erlang runtime to see if there was anything obvious..
06:26 dcook I think Golang is supposed to have some busy wait too, although I haven't seen it in practice yet. I think I've only seen it actually sleep when it had no work to do..
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06:27 dcook I just wish I'd make some blog entries so I'd keep records of my deep dives lol
06:33 dcook Of course, now it's the end of my work day, and I don't really feel like working on technical things... heh
06:33 dcook Anyway, have a good day ashimema[m] and all
06:33 dcook And thanks for the cookies ;)
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06:36 reiveune hello
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06:42 fridolin hi
06:42 wahanui hi, fridolin
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06:45 alex_a Bonjour
06:45 wahanui que tal, alex_a
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06:56 ashimema[m] Sorry, got caught in the rush to get kids ready for school
06:56 ashimema[m] Reading back now
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07:15 ashimema[m] is there a reason 19.05_D8 is disabled?
07:15 ashimema[m] on Jenkins that is
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10:10 henryb I was looking at the 21.05 roles and wondered if there was space for a new role for someone to focus on accessibility
10:10 henryb e.g. test from an accessibility perspective, update accessibility guidance and documentation, generally promote accessibility issues and file new bugs
10:10 henryb A bit like the topic expert but without any extra QA points
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10:11 henryb I think it would be a great signal that we value accessibility
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10:11 henryb And an excuse/opportunity for someone to develop expertise
10:11 henryb I guess the role would vary depending on the person's skillset and experience
10:12 henryb does anyone have any thoughts? And if you think it's a good idea how do we go about adding a role?
10:12 kohaputti It should be included to the QA process imho
10:12 kohaputti but also pre-existing bugs should be filed
10:14 kohaputti so I suggest we add some instructions for the qa team regarding this in in the section "What to look for"
10:16 kohaputti Also probably for the relevant parts it should be in the Coding guidelines (https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]oding_Guidelines)
10:19 henryb Yes, I absolutely agree. But I thought that if there was someone (or more than one person?) who had accessibility in their role then they might be more likely to prioritise accessibility and update the instructions
10:22 oleonard henryb are you interested in taking that position?
10:24 henryb Possibly if nobody else wanted it although I'm sure there are other people much more qualified!
10:25 vfernandes Can someone help me with a koha dev question? I'm trying to expand a Koha .pm file but i'm getting this error: "Template process failed: undef error - The method test is not covered by tests! at /KEEPS/koha/lib/C4/"
10:26 oleonard henryb it's the kind of role that can be self-created if you'd like to see it happen. I think it's a great idea.
10:26 kidclamp vfernandes, what files did you edit?
10:27 Joubu vfernandes: did you restart plack?
10:28 oleonard henryb having "official" recognition of the role might be useful if there was disagreement about the worthiness of the task, but I don't think there is.
10:30 oleonard henryb: On the other hand, if "official" recognition of the role helped you get the time and resources in your "day job,"  then we can give you a title and an official badge if necessary :D
10:31 vfernandes lib/Koha/Patron/Attribute/
10:31 vfernandes the error appears after restarting pack
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10:32 kohaputti oleonard, henryb yup, I think it is just important that somebody is interested doing the instructions and filing pre-existing bugs for this, whether there is separate role for this or not I don't think matters but I wouldn't be against having designated person for this
10:32 kohaputti (there just needs to be a volunteer to do this work)
10:33 kidclamp vfernandes: are you running kohadevbox? or koha testing docker?
10:33 kidclamp generally in dev you aren't editing the lib/ files directly, but the ones in the kohaclone
10:33 vfernandes i'm using a custom installation
10:35 ashimema[m] I love the idea of someone focusing on accessability henryb :)
10:36 ashimema[m] even if it ends up a temporary role that only exists for a few cycles.. having someone concentrate on working through adding suitable guidelines and documenting our shortcomings on that front would be fantastic.
10:36 kidclamp vfernandes, restart plack AND memcached?
10:37 ashimema[m] I know there's a real push for more accessability aware stuff at the moment.. obviously here in the UK, but I'm also aware of a few projects more widely in europe too.. would be great to have someone take the lead on helping to bring attention to those bugs and adding guidlines around them..
10:37 vfernandes ohhh my bad... I put the method test in lib/Koha/Patron/Attribute/ instead of lib/Koha/Patron/Attribute/ :D
10:38 vfernandes *instead of lib/Koha/Patron/Attribute/
10:38 ashimema[m] henryb++.. assuming you have a wiki account, feel free to stick a new role in and write a little proposal for it.. we can vote as a community to ratify it (and I'm yet to see a role like this turned down)
10:39 ashimema[m] ah yes.. that would do it vfernandes :)
10:40 kidclamp heh
10:42 ashimema[m] fridolin++
10:43 ashimema[m] unicorns++
10:46 henryb Ok thanks for the comments and encouragement, I will add something to the wiki
10:47 ashimema[m] let me know if you need a hand with anything
10:49 ashimema[m] https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]i/Roles_for_20.11 (there's an example of writing a proposal on there for Jonathan D as RM.. something similar for what you would like to see the role take on would be perfect)
10:50 ashimema[m] or you could add the proposal for role to https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]iki/Project_roles and we can help flesh it out at a later date :)
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11:44 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.05_D8 build #260: SUCCESS in 41 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_19.05_D8/260/
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12:16 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.05_D8 build #261: SUCCESS in 32 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_19.05_D8/261/
12:18 tcohen morning
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12:35 kidclamp ok guys, no one touch the holds code anymore from now on everyone must accept it as is
12:35 kidclamp :-P
12:38 Joubu deal
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12:40 ashimema[m] wha
12:40 ashimema[m] morning
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12:42 ashimema[m] well.. afternoon here.. but morning for you tcohen
12:42 ashimema[m] ;P
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12:55 tcohen late morning actually :-D
12:55 tcohen it takes me almost an hour to pick the nanny as there's no public transportation
12:56 tcohen kidclamp at least allow to push bug 25260
12:56 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=25260 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , Merge 'reserves' and 'old_reserves' into a new 'holds' table
12:56 tcohen it is tiny :-P
12:56 kidclamp couldn't affect a thing :-P
12:58 ashimema[m] lol
12:59 tcohen I must admit I got surprised how easy was switching things into using the new table
12:59 tcohen I expected many things to explode, and it was just a bunch of edge cases that had regression tests
13:00 * ashimema[m] likes that bug
13:00 ashimema[m] did I not sign it off already..
13:00 ashimema[m] oops
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13:22 tony Can someone tell me why I'm getting a Internal Server Error when in the admin area and trying to open 'about koha' --- BTW Everything else works perfect --- I'm using Koha 20
13:23 tcohen what do the logs say?
13:24 tcohen tail -f /var/log/koha/<instance>/plack-error.log
13:37 tony tcohen -- tks for responding, the log sez: Use of uninitialized value $query in pattern match (m//) at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 1296. Use of uninitialized value $query in pattern match (m//) at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 1297. Use of uninitialized value $query in pattern match (m//) at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 1306. Use of uninitialized value $query in pattern match (m//) at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Search
13:37 tcohen those are harmless warnings
13:37 tcohen keep the command running (tail -f)
13:38 tcohen and reload the interface to trigger the error
13:38 tony I understand however I can initialize any of the 'perl' if I can't see what's there
13:38 Joubu I would tail -f on the whole /var/log/koha/<instance>/*.log
13:46 tcohen ah, plack-intranet-error.log?
13:46 tcohen what Joubu said
13:48 tony Thank you both -- I had to run perl -MCPAN -e 'install Bundle::KohaSupport' and now it is working --- tks again
13:49 tcohen Oh
13:49 tcohen So a plugin was breaking Koha?
13:50 tcohen are you sure you're using Koha 20.05?
13:50 tcohen that library dates back to 2008
13:52 Joubu FYI all: Dev meeting in less than 10min
13:53 tony Yes I'm sure another reason to get into the About Koha
13:53 Joubu tony: you should not need that, really :) Something else is going wrong
13:54 tony Hmmmmm well it is still running so I should see the results soon
13:54 tcohen how did you install tony?
13:54 Joubu it installs some modules, you are certainly missing one
13:54 tcohen how did you install Koha I mean
13:55 tony I installed via the web installation
13:55 tcohen yes, but did you apt install koha-common?
13:55 tony I'm running it on Ubuntu 16.04 so it might be something that is within that version
13:55 tcohen https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ki/Koha_on_Debian
13:56 tcohen Ah, that Ubuntu version is not supported by Koha 20.05
13:56 tcohen
13:57 Joubu I may work actually
13:57 Joubu At least our CI is green
13:57 tony It shows on the site that it is still good for 20
13:57 tcohen but it might have dependency issues
13:58 Joubu I think mtj fixed that
13:58 tcohen then why is tony having deps issues he
13:58 tcohen ok
13:58 tony That is just what I'm thinking since this version of Ubuntu is old
13:58 Joubu but yeah, if you are starting from scratch you should prefer Ubuntu 18 or 20
13:59 tony Well that is what I should have upgraded to but the client was pressuring so much I just kept it on 16
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14:00 tony It is showing me that I have some XML issues going on
14:01 tcohen tony, we have a dev meeting right now
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14:01 tcohen lets talk  a bit later
14:01 tony Got it
14:01 Joubu #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 7 October 2020
14:01 huginn Meeting started Wed Oct  7 14:01:31 2020 UTC.  The chair is Joubu. Information about MeetBot at
14:01 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:01 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
14:01 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_7_october_2020'
14:01 Joubu #topic Introductions
14:01 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
14:01 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart
14:01 Joubu qa_team?
14:01 wahanui i think qa_team is cait Joubu marcelr kohaputti josef_moravec tcohen kidclamp khall ashimema alex_a jajm matts
14:01 Joubu rmaints?
14:01 wahanui rmaints is lukeG, aleisha, and tuxayo, I SUMMON THEE!!âš¡âš¡
14:01 ashimema[m] #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe
14:02 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Theke Solutions
14:02 jajm #info Julian Maurice, BibLibre
14:02 Joubu #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ng_7_October_2020
14:02 amoyano #info Agustin Moyano, Theke Solutions
14:03 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries, Ohio, USA
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14:04 Joubu #topic Announcements
14:04 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
14:04 Joubu #info Roles for 21.05 are opened https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]i/Roles_for_21.05
14:04 Joubu please add your name :)
14:04 Joubu I candidate to continue as serving for RM
14:05 ashimema[m] long live the RM
14:05 oleonard Joubu++
14:05 Joubu Anyone have something else to announce?
14:06 Joubu as usual, just ask me with quick "!" or "." or whatever if you want me to stop
14:06 Joubu otherwise I am moving on
14:06 Joubu #topic Update from the Release manager (20.11)
14:06 Topic for #koha is now Update from the Release manager (20.11) (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
14:06 ashimema[m] :)
14:07 Joubu bug 20582 and bug 22417 have been pushed this week
14:07 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=20582 enhancement, P5 - low, Future, julian.maurice, Pushed to master , Turn Koha into a Mojolicious application
14:07 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=22417 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to master , Add a task queue
14:07 Joubu Keep going the work on those 2 and SO/QA on existing dependent patches or open/write follow-up bug reports.
14:07 amoyano great news!
14:07 Joubu #info If you face issues with ktd you certainly need to `docker-compose pull`
14:08 Joubu Those using kohadevbox will certainly to install new dependencies. Let us know if you face any problems related to them.
14:08 Joubu Other point, I would like to highlight bug 24488: That would be great to see one or two of us offering their help to aleisha.
14:08 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=24488 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, aleisha, ASSIGNED , Holds to Pull sometimes shows the wrong 'first patron' details
14:09 Joubu #info The new git server will be live next month, after the October stable releases
14:09 * ashimema[m] has been tip toeing around that one..
14:09 ashimema[m] awesome on the gitserver front
14:09 Joubu I have started to add the release-notes-needed flag on some bug reports pushed to 20.11 that need them. Please add them when missing! At least for the ones I flagged.
14:09 Joubu And that's all for me, any questions?
14:10 Joubu ha yes, release dates will be published on the ML very soon
14:10 Joubu #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers
14:10 Topic for #koha is now Updates from the Release Maintainers (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
14:11 ashimema[m] are there any here?
14:11 Joubu #info October stable releases will be rolled out on 27th
14:11 * ashimema[m] is happy to see fridolin running for rmaint next cycle
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14:11 Joubu postponed after KohaCon
14:12 Joubu #topic Updates from the QA team
14:12 Topic for #koha is now Updates from the QA team (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
14:12 ashimema[m] QA has been flowing well.. but there's always more that can be done
14:13 Joubu Queue is getting high a bit, 65 bugs
14:13 ashimema[m] usual suspects are shouldering allot of the burden
14:13 Joubu It would be great to see some of you focussed on Katrin's patches
14:13 Joubu as she did an awesome job last month to lower the numbers
14:13 ashimema[m] +1 (I'm locked out of most as I've done a chunk of SO on them)
14:14 ashimema[m] most are simple to QA too.. boost your numbers by taking some on chaps
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14:15 Joubu #info @QA - QA ALL THE THINGS. There are easy ones to boost your name on top of the dashboard :)
14:16 Joubu #info Actions from last meeting
14:16 Joubu #topic Actions from last meeting
14:16 Topic for #koha is now Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
14:16 Joubu #topic ashimema is collecting notes about bug 15522 and is going to review and dig a bit more into the code (postponed)
14:16 Topic for #koha is now ashimema is collecting notes about bug 15522 and is going to review and dig a bit more into the code (postponed) (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
14:16 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=15522 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Patch doesn't apply , New interface for revamped circulation rules
14:16 ashimema[m] It would be nice to see some more QA's from matts and alex_a
14:16 matts ashimema[m], I agree.
14:17 Joubu ashimema[m]: what is the status of this?
14:17 ashimema[m] OK.. 15522 generally I'm happy with.. I was hoping to see a vue alternative put forward for comparison to highlight the complexity/simplicity of the javascript
14:17 Joubu What are the feedbacks of the users?
14:18 ashimema[m] I believe the existing branch needs a minor rebase for the changes to our build scripts
14:18 amoyano I'll try to add my 2 cents on vue for that one
14:18 ashimema[m] UX wise everyone seemed happy
14:18 tcohen amoyano++
14:18 ashimema[m] amoyano that would be awesome
14:18 tcohen there's the need to revisit the gulpfile
14:18 tcohen I'll take a look there
14:18 Joubu amoyano: when do you think you will have time to dedicate to it?
14:18 ashimema[m] I've a feeling at this point it's not a 20.11 piece but one for very very early 21.05
14:19 Joubu it's definitely too late for 20.11
14:19 ashimema[m] I'd rather wait a month/cycle and see a nice proof of vue
14:19 Joubu maybe something to present during KohaCon?
14:19 amoyano I'll try to do something this week
14:19 Joubu I really would like to get some feedback from real users
14:19 ashimema[m] I'm not expert enough in either react or vue to have a strong feeling.. but I will admit the react code looks complex
14:19 Joubu (ie. not devs)
14:19 ashimema[m] amoyano that is awesome
14:20 ashimema[m] I got our support team to give it a run down and they liked it..
14:20 ashimema[m] especially once they'd had a chat with their contemporaries at ByWater..
14:20 Joubu #action amoyano Will try to provide a Vue alternative to bug 15522
14:20 ashimema[m] we also have a customer on standby to play with it
14:20 Joubu ashimema[m]: where are the notes you collected?
14:21 ashimema[m] in the end it was sumamrised as.. "We like it"
14:21 amoyano hehe
14:21 Joubu Could we imagine a sandbox with sample data with a lot of circ rules?
14:21 Joubu and ask the list for feedback?
14:22 ashimema[m] that's a nice idea
14:22 Joubu you are voluntering, right?
14:22 ashimema[m] how big is big..
14:22 tcohen ashimema[m]++
14:22 Joubu #action ashimema Setup a sandbox with lot of circ rules (ideally from production data) to test 15522. Then ask the list for feedback.
14:23 Joubu great :)
14:23 ashimema[m] the tests we ran with it were with a customers data.. a few hundred lines of circ rules
14:23 Joubu #topic davidnind Find and update relevant places to record Perl version required, including release notes, manual and wiki (one source of the truth) (postponed)
14:23 Topic for #koha is now davidnind Find and update relevant places to record Perl version required, including release notes, manual and wiki (one source of the truth) (postponed) (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
14:23 ashimema[m] I'll ask said customer if they're happy for me to share such a set (with anonymised users of course)
14:23 Joubu I think I pinged him at the last meeting but cannot remember his answer :-/
14:24 ashimema[m] me either
14:24 Joubu @later tell davidnind Can you update the actions assigned to you for the next dev meetings please?
14:24 huginn Joubu: The operation succeeded.
14:24 Joubu #action davidnind Find and update relevant places to record Perl version required, including release notes, manual and wiki (one source of the truth) (postponed)
14:24 Joubu #action davidnind to add information about what to backport to the release maintainers role page (as a starting point for further notes and guidance)
14:25 Joubu #topic ashimema to write a guideline to forbidding the use of type "number"
14:25 Topic for #koha is now ashimema to write a guideline to forbidding the use of type "number" (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
14:25 ashimema[m] hmm
14:26 ashimema[m] I thought I did that
14:26 ashimema[m] just trying to find the draft
14:26 amoyano is it part of the qa script?
14:26 Joubu I think so
14:26 Joubu or there is a merge request
14:27 Joubu[…]tools/-/issues/38
14:27 Joubu there is a merge request associated to the issue
14:27 ashimema[m] OK.. seems I never added it
14:28 * fridolin waves
14:28 Joubu and it has been approved, I will merge it. I guess I was waiting for the guidelines to be approved
14:28 ashimema[m] I'll add it to the guidelines as "ACC2: Input type number should not be used"
14:28 Joubu #action ashimema to write a guideline to forbidding the use of type "number" (postponed)
14:28 ashimema[m] ajha.. I bet I drafted it on the bug report
14:28 Joubu #topic  tuxayo to collect notes (if any) from past&present RMaints about their backport policies.
14:28 Topic for #koha is now tuxayo to collect notes (if any) from past&present RMaints about their backport policies. (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
14:29 Joubu #info tuxayo collected notes from past and present RMaints about their backport policies at https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]_maintenance_tips
14:29 Joubu #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...)
14:29 Topic for #koha is now General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...) (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
14:30 Joubu ashimema[m]: ideally we should update the action entry directly on the meeting page
14:30 Joubu that will help to know if we should postpone or if the action has been done
14:30 Joubu especially if the author does not attend the meeting
14:31 ashimema[m] good idea
14:31 Joubu #topic What to do when updatedatabase fails ?
14:31 Topic for #koha is now What to do when updatedatabase fails ? (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
14:31 ashimema[m] thanks
14:31 Joubu jajm: you added that, right?
14:32 ashimema[m] It comes up semi-frequently
14:32 ashimema[m] most recent broader discussion is on bug 25078
14:32 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=25078 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, In Discussion , Gracefully stop updatedatabase/installer when a database change cannot be applied
14:32 Joubu yes
14:32 Joubu I was trying to find this one
14:32 jajm Joubu, yes, but I wasn't aware of bug 25078
14:32 ashimema[m] which was raised a a bug after discussions on bug 22887
14:32 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=22887 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to master , authorised_values is missing a unique constraint on category + authorised_value
14:33 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
14:33 wahanui Congratulations!
14:33 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_U16 build #8: FIXED in 44 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_U16/8/
14:33 ashimema[m] and more recently came up in bug 18050
14:33 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=18050 minor, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Signed Off , Missing constraint on aqbudgets.budget_period_id in aqbudgets
14:33 Joubu basically, see my last comment on 25078
14:33 ashimema[m] In short.. there's a strong feeling amongst some that updatedatebase should somehow gracefully fail to ensure the database is consistent for all as apposed to just warning.
14:34 Joubu (note to myself: never write you are going to do something during the next dev cycle...)
14:34 ashimema[m] hehe
14:35 ashimema[m] well.. is it still a goal people are strongly feeling should be met
14:35 jajm Joubu, "As I said I would prefer to have the whole thing ran in one go." so you want to run every DB update even if the first failed ?
14:35 Joubu My point is: we can explode, people is supposed to have a backup.
14:35 ashimema[m] my feeling is as much as I'd like to see it done.. it also doesn't present me with enough of an issue to work on it personally..
14:35 Joubu jajm: yes
14:35 Joubu you get all the errors
14:35 ashimema[m] and.. I don't feel we should be failing existing bug reports for it
14:36 Joubu then you restore the backup, fix the problems and run the upgrade again
14:36 jajm errors that can happen only because the first failed
14:36 Joubu it's just a my developper point of view. Seems easier to fix
14:37 Joubu than redoing the whole script every error it faces
14:38 Joubu I am suggesting to continue the discussion on the bug report
14:38 Joubu I am open to anything we decide and I am willing to work on it if we find an concensus
14:39 Joubu ok?
14:39 jajm it seems dangerous to assume everyone has db backups and that the backups work :)
14:40 jajm ok to continue on the bug report
14:41 Joubu Another last minute discussion?
14:41 Joubu #topic Set time of next meeting
14:41 Topic for #koha is now Set time of next meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
14:42 Joubu #info Next meeting: 28 October 2020, 20 UTC
14:42 Joubu in 3 weeks, after the KohaCon
14:42 Joubu #endmeeting
14:42 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software
14:42 huginn Meeting ended Wed Oct  7 14:42:28 2020 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
14:42 huginn Minutes:        https://meetings.koha-communit[…]-10-07-14.01.html
14:42 huginn Minutes (text): https://meetings.koha-communit[…]0-10-07-14.01.txt
14:42 huginn Log:            https://meetings.koha-communit[…]07-14.01.log.html
14:42 ashimema[m] Thanks Joubu
14:47 Joubu ashimema[m]: maybe you should link the gov uk recommendation to ACC2?
14:47 Joubu hmrc
14:48 Joubu no it was not hmrc :D
14:48 Joubu[…]type-for-numbers/
14:48 Joubu I meant this one
14:51 ashimema[m] I think they've rebranded themselves a bit since the original
14:51 ashimema[m] but yeah.. not a bad idea to link to it.
14:54 tcohen Joubu++
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15:10 reiveune bye
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16:00 kidclamp Joubu: please see my followup on 24488 and approve or obsolete
16:04 Joubu erk
16:04 Joubu I was going to submit a follow-up :-(
16:05 ashimema[m] lol
16:05 ashimema[m] you did ask for help in the meeting ;)
16:05 ashimema[m] glad I'm here to see others do it.. as I was also thinking of jumping in next.. haha
16:05 * ashimema[m] lets the dust settle a bit
16:06 kidclamp heh, sorry
16:06 Joubu kidclamp: I think you missed something
16:06 Joubu I am attaching mine
16:07 Joubu kidclamp: we did almost the same things, but you forgot the { '!=', undef } part
16:07 Joubu I think it should be kept
16:08 Joubu also, the count of items: we don't need the pass a column and "distinct"
16:08 Joubu otherwise yes, it's the same idea :)
16:08 Joubu what do you think?
16:08 kidclamp yes, I missed some :-) nice one
16:09 Joubu kidclamp: I was wondering if we should not actually retrieve all the items instead of replaying the same query
16:10 Joubu we could do that in perl
16:11 Joubu like: my @items = Koha::Items->the_search; my @location = uniq {map $_->location} @items;
16:11 Joubu misplaced {}, but you got the point I'm sure
16:11 kidclamp I did wonder which would be more efficient
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19:07 kathryn hi caroline I'm here again for the meeting, did I also have the time wrong? :)
19:08 tcohen something's wrong with bugzilla
19:09 tcohen kathryn: did you get a bunch of materials from Argentina?
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19:10 caroline hi again kathryn! it is in an hour (according to the calendar...)
19:10 caroline hi davidnind!
19:11 kathryn tchoen I have a new one yesterday labelled Aniversario Koha-ffyh not sure if that's one you know
19:11 tcohen it is
19:11 kathryn cool :)
19:12 davidnind hi caroline!
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19:12 kathryn hi davidnind
19:12 tcohen hi caroline davidnind
19:15 davidnind hi kathryn tcohen
19:22 caroline hi tcohen!
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19:51 aleisha hello
19:52 caroline hi aleisha!
19:52 tcohen hi aleisha
19:53 marieluce hi everyone
19:54 aleisha missed the dev meeting but here for the community meeting!
19:54 alexis joined #koha
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19:59 caroline Joubu around?
20:00 caroline if not any volunteers to chair the meeting?
20:02 caroline I guess I can do it since I'm around and don't have much to say
20:02 caroline #startmeeting General IRC meeting 7 October 2020
20:02 huginn Meeting started Wed Oct  7 20:02:34 2020 UTC.  The chair is caroline. Information about MeetBot at
20:02 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:02 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
20:02 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting_7_october_2020'
20:02 caroline #topic Introductions
20:02 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
20:02 caroline please use "#info" in front of your introduction to have it show up in the automatic minutes
20:03 aleisha #info Aleisha Amohia, Catalyst IT, Wellington ZN
20:03 aleisha oops
20:03 caroline #info Caroline Cyr La Rose, inLibro, Montreal
20:03 marieluce #info Marie-Luce Laflamme, inLibro, Montreal
20:03 davidnind #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand
20:03 lisettelatah #info Lisette Scheer Latah County Library District, Moscow, Idaho, US
20:03 kathryn #info Kathryn Tyree, Catalyst IT, NZ
20:03 henryb #info Henry Bolshaw, House of Lords Library, UK
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20:05 caroline cait sends her apologies as she is not able to attend today
20:05 caroline #topic Announcements
20:05 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
20:05 rangi #nfo Chris Cormack, Catalyst IT
20:05 rangi lol
20:05 caroline The wiki pae for 21.05 roles is open!
20:05 rangi #info Chris Cormack, Catalyst IT
20:06 caroline #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]i/Roles_for_21.05
20:06 caroline #info Wiki page for 21.05 roles is open add your names!
20:07 caroline any other announcements? (we'll do a separate topic for Kohacon)
20:07 kathryn :)
20:09 caroline #topic KohaCon updates
20:09 Topic for #koha is now KohaCon updates (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
20:09 caroline the floor is yours
20:09 wahanui i already had it that way, caroline.
20:09 kathryn Thanks!
20:09 caroline wahanui what is the floor?
20:09 wahanui well, the floor is yours
20:09 kathryn Here's something I prepared earlier :)
20:09 kathryn Catalyst are very busy with preparation, but it's a moving train now and it's going to arrive on 19 October!
20:09 kathryn #info Please can all online and in-person attendees register at there is room for more in person, and the internet has more space too :) We will email the URL for the stream to everyone registered.
20:09 kathryn All presenters who are pre-recording please send in your recordings this week.
20:09 kathryn Thanks to all that contributed to the video! We hope it works out when we put it all together - we will see!
20:09 kathryn All are welcome at Kohacon, whether they use Koha now or not and are interested to listen in and see how they can apply our Koha stories in their own libraries. Please share the news :)
20:10 caroline less than 2 weeks!
20:10 kathryn way less! let me try and put the rest in the in minutes
20:10 kathryn #info All presenters who are pre-recording please send in your recordings this week.
20:10 kathryn Thanks to all that contributed to the video! We hope it works out when we put it all together - we will see!
20:10 kathryn #info All are welcome at Kohacon, whether they use Koha now or not and are interested to listen in and see how they can apply our Koha stories in their own libraries. Please share the news :)
20:11 kathryn sorry one more time for the notes
20:11 kathryn #info Thanks to all that contributed to the video! We hope it works out when we put it all together - we will see!
20:11 caroline kathryn++
20:11 marieluce kathryn++
20:12 kathryn In short, we're seeing lots of registrations at the moment, keep them coming, it's all happening!
20:12 hayley kathryn++
20:12 kathryn Anyone else want to add anything or ask?
20:12 thd joined #koha
20:12 caroline And for those in Europe and America, don't forget that it starts on October 18 for us
20:12 inlibro joined #koha
20:12 caroline I just realized this this week
20:12 caroline we live int he past
20:13 aleisha hehe
20:13 kathryn yeah caroline, also we just started daylight savings which is why I thought this meeting was an hour ago, as well as yesterday ;)
20:13 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
20:13 kathryn perhaps we'll put that in the next koha list email
20:13 caroline presenters, make sure to check your times otherwise you will be one day late lol!
20:14 henryb Will the in-person workshops be recorded or available online too?
20:14 kathryn #info we'll send out the stream link a day or two before the conference
20:14 caroline good question henryb!
20:15 kathryn henryb no sorry :( we decided it's a bit hard on the presenters to cater to both in person and remote learners/participants
20:16 kathryn if we can share some notes/summaries/slides we will do that
20:16 caroline Workshops on Oct. 25 are online though?
20:17 caroline and what about the DIY days?
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20:17 kathryn no, there was just one online workshop proposed, the rest are in person
20:18 henryb Ok thanks kathryn. The workshops sound really interesting so it would be great to see notes afterwards if that's possible.
20:18 kathryn The DIY days we'll be in IRC, in person here in Wellington NZ, and have video conference available if people want to work together that way
20:19 kathryn henryb we also don't have a camera set up in the workshops room, whereas the main auditorium has all the gear fro recording/streaming
20:19 caroline just to summarize for online viewers it's days 1-3 for talks and days 6 and 7 for DIY on IRC, is that right?
20:20 kathryn yes
20:20 caroline #info for online viewers it's days 1-3 for talks and days 6 and 7 for DIY on IRC
20:20 caroline thanks for the clarification kathryn!
20:21 henryb Looking forward to it! Although still not sure when I will sleep
20:21 rangi plus the one online workshop if ppl are interested in rfid stuff
20:21 kathryn #info #kohacon20 is the hashtag!
20:21 caroline #info there is one online workshop on day 5 too
20:22 caroline davidnind will be manning the twitter?
20:23 kathryn Tosca from Catalyst will be on @nzkoha
20:23 caroline any other questions for the kohacon organizers?
20:23 rangi im sure davidnind will be retweeting and adding more on @kohails too :)
20:23 kathryn which we've been using for the conference - but would love to have david on ^ yep :)
20:24 davidnind I was planning to, and can provide access if anyone else wants to - hopefully don't get blocked this time for too many tweets!
20:24 davidnind might not be the same volume - not sure whether it is too much live tweeting sonetimes...
20:24 caroline thank you organizing team for turning around and organizing this for the new noemal
20:25 caroline #info follow @nzkoha and @kohails on Twitter during the conference
20:25 davidnind kathyrn++ (and team!)
20:26 kathryn you're welcome, lets see how it goes :) looking forward to it!
20:26 henryb kathryn++
20:26 caroline alrighty if there aren't any other questions we'll move on to the next topic
20:27 caroline #topic Update on releases
20:27 Topic for #koha is now Update on releases (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
20:27 caroline anybody from the meeting this morning can summarize?
20:27 caroline rmaints?
20:27 wahanui rmaints is lukeG, aleisha, and tuxayo, I SUMMON THEE!!âš¡âš¡
20:27 aleisha hello
20:27 aleisha i wasnt in the meeting this morning
20:28 caroline I guess Jobou and team are on schedule to release 20.11 in november
20:28 aleisha basically
20:28 wahanui basically is checks the Bugzilla statuses are correct, then updates the status, adds the 'released in versions' text and adds a comment
20:28 hayley shh wahanui
20:28 aleisha #info string freeze for october release will be 20th and release will be 27th
20:29 sam_s where is the koha-conf.xml located in the koha install? The manual refrences it but doesn't say where it's located
20:30 caroline alright, anything else for releases?
20:31 hayley sam_s usually /etc/koha/sites/<instance>/koha-conf.xml I think
20:31 caroline ok then, moving on
20:31 caroline #topic Actions from last meeting
20:31 Topic for #koha is now Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
20:31 caroline #info no actions from last meeting
20:32 caroline any other topics y'all wanted to discuss?
20:33 caroline I feel like I'm going through topics very fast, don't hesitate to tell me to wait a bit :)
20:33 davidnind lisettlelatah++ and koha-US team for a successful online conference last month
20:34 caroline lisettelatah++
20:34 lisettelatah Thanks! all the recordings and slides are up on our website for anyone who missed it.
20:35 nlegrand joined #koha
20:35 lisettelatah[…]linetogether2020/
20:35 caroline #info recordings and slides of Koha-US conference are on Koha-US website
20:35 caroline #link[…]linetogether2020/
20:37 caroline #topic Set time of Next meeting
20:37 Topic for #koha is now Set time of Next meeting (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 7 October 2020)
20:37 caroline First week of november?
20:38 caroline I propose to still keep it at this time for Kohacon wrap up, even if it's a bit inconvenient for europeans
20:38 sam_s hayley: thx!
20:38 davidnind +1
20:39 thd +1
20:39 hayley sam_s :)
20:39 caroline So wednesday nov 4 20UTC?
20:39 thd +1
20:39 caroline Objections?
20:40 aleisha +1
20:40 henryb +1
20:40 davidnind +1
20:40 caroline #info Next meeting: 4 November 2020, 20 UTC
20:40 caroline #endmeeting
20:40 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software
20:40 huginn Meeting ended Wed Oct  7 20:40:37 2020 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
20:40 huginn Minutes:        https://meetings.koha-communit[…]-10-07-20.02.html
20:40 huginn Minutes (text): https://meetings.koha-communit[…]0-10-07-20.02.txt
20:40 huginn Log:            https://meetings.koha-communit[…]07-20.02.log.html
20:40 davidnind caroline++
20:41 marieluce caroline++
20:41 caroline thanks everyone! I can't wait to see your faces at Kohacon!
20:41 henryb caroline++
20:41 caroline (or the backs of your heads if you're not presenting lol)
20:43 caroline @later tell ashimema[m] can you run the post-meeting script for minutes?
20:43 huginn caroline: The operation succeeded.
20:46 davidnind left #koha
20:54 tcohen oh noes
20:55 * tcohen got distracted (kids)
20:55 tcohen koha++
20:55 tcohen caroline++
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21:41 sam_s hey, i'm trying to work on a plugin in koha testing docker, but I cant figure out how to enable plugins in it. I thought starting with "kup" would do this as it's described as "Start the env, plugin development set" but the plugins option doesn't show up under more when starting it in this mode
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