Time  Nick          Message
05:38 alexbuckley   thank you davidnind for testing bugs 25460 and 26589 the other day! davidnind++
05:39 davidnind     no problem!
05:39 alexbuckley   :)
05:51 ashimema[m]   Good morning
05:51 * ashimema[m] sends dcook cookies
05:51 dcook         Morning :)
05:51 dcook         Why do I get cookies?
05:51 dcook         lol
05:51 dcook         other david
05:51 dcook         Makes waaaaay more sense
05:51 dcook         Wait..
05:51 dcook         No dcook
05:52 dcook         I'm so lost
05:52 dcook         davidnind++
05:52 ashimema[m]   davidnind++ #mr SO machine
05:52 dcook         Thanks for signing off my patch yesterday heh
05:52 ashimema[m]   Just read your Facebook from two hours ago and though you could do with a more positive interaction dcook :)
05:52 dcook         I just saw your comment heh
05:53 dcook         And cheers :)
05:53 dcook         Much appreciated
05:53 ashimema[m]   Nice to see you sign up for QA team btw
05:53 ashimema[m]   Welcome aboard
05:53 dcook         I have to say though Linus gives me a run for my money in terms of length and verbosity of messages..
05:53 dcook         And thanks :)
05:54 ashimema[m]   Pooh, what did Linus do now.. assuming your talking about The Linus
05:54 dcook         Oh, just saying how anyone who uses the sched_yield syscall is basically the worst
05:55 dcook         I don't do enough low level programming to know if he's being overly harsh or on point though heh
05:55 ashimema[m]   I think you mix in way more technical circles than me at times.. I'm focused back down to Koha possibly a bit too much at the minute.. I should re-broaden my coding really.. bit I love the friendly community here
05:55 dcook         And an Erlang programmer having a go at someone for asking a question
05:55 dcook         The friendly community here is the best
05:56 ashimema[m]   Erlang is hard.. I'd be asking lots of questions if I  tried Erlang again
05:56 dcook         A few months ago, I saw some rather bigoted things on listservs (not Koha of course) and it just had me shaking my head
05:56 dcook         I'm mostly looking at a few concerns people have about RabbitMQ and its CPU usage
05:56 dcook         and it seems like it comes at least partially from busy waiting/spinning..
05:57 dcook         Which I get in concept but in practice... not so much
05:57 ashimema[m]   I'm still keen to try and do a Koha lite or whatever we decided to call it
05:57 dcook         I can't remember what we decided either heh
05:57 dcook         Isn't that the way..
05:57 ashimema[m]   But I'm not sure how to approach it.. needs some funding really
05:58 dcook         Well, my first go at a Koha lite would just be with fewer required dependencies
05:58 dcook         And then slowly decomposing things to be lighter and ligheter
05:58 dcook         lighter*
05:58 ashimema[m]   I'm sure there are some me lighter weight alternatives to RabbitMQ and Elastic out there that could give us 90% of what we need for the average users
05:58 ashimema[m]   Yeah
05:58 dcook         Yeah, I've been thinking about that a bit lately
05:58 ashimema[m]   Decomposing would be great for everyone
05:59 dcook         I'd be curious to see how the further move to Mojolicious will go too
05:59 dcook         Julian was saying he was getting great performance with hypnotoad even for static assets
05:59 ashimema[m]   But I don't think it's a priority for any businesses here unfortunately..
05:59 dcook         (That led me down another rabbit hole of comparing major web servers and their sendfile(2) syscall support heh)
05:59 dcook         Yeah, true enough
06:00 dcook         It's more a professional interest of mine than a business one..
06:00 ashimema[m]   Wonder if there are any grants out there that could help keep Koha runnable for poorer nations
06:00 dcook         Hmm good question
06:01 ashimema[m]   Totally.. personal and professional interest.. but I already don't have enough hours in the day to follow those
06:01 ashimema[m]   :(
06:01 dcook         Saaame
06:02 ashimema[m]   With a grant I feel like I could give up some of the day job and focus on those more altruistic concerns like this
06:04 ashimema[m]   Mojo is another area I'd really like to help move forward..
06:05 dcook         I am planning to play more with Mojo
06:05 dcook         I messed around with Mojo::IOLoop a little while ago and would like to look at that again
06:06 ashimema[m]   Mojo is cool.. I'm really glad I got to code something's Ng fresh and new with it before looking at it from a Koha perspective though..
06:06 dcook         Hehe I bet
06:07 dcook         I was doing some OpenAPI work with Perl the other day but couldn't use Mojolicious... not fun
06:07 dcook         In the end, I actually just used the OpenAPI spec to document it and didn't bother with any autogenerated code..
06:07 ashimema[m]   Koha is awesome but it has one heck of a legacy and momentum which makes it really hard to make the most of newer technologies
06:07 dcook         Mojo::IOLoop was interesting. Very minimal interface
06:07 dcook         Yeah, it's what... 20 years old now?
06:08 dcook         Definitely makes it tough to modernize..
06:09 dcook         Huh... TIL that VMware apparently own RabbitMQ
06:09 dcook         Don't know why I didn't notice that before
06:09 dcook         I mean fortunately since we're using Net::Stomp for the connections, we can always sub in a different MQ
06:10 dcook         (Although I think we do some RabbitMQ-specific stuff for it)
06:13 ashimema[m]   I've not looked at our us of RabbitMQ in detail yet.. I took a step back when I saw people more knowledgeable sounding than me looking at it..
06:13 ashimema[m]   Was more than happy to bow out as it's not an area I'm all that familiar with at the moment
06:23 dcook         I'm pretty happy with RabbitMQ overall
06:23 dcook         Although the concerns that people have raised intrigue me
06:24 dcook         Basically, RabbitMQ using a small amount of CPU constantly even when it's not processing any messages
06:25 dcook         According to the RabbitMQ docs, this is due to "busy waiting", which they say you can turn off, but doing so only seems to partially achieve the goal
06:25 dcook         They say RabbitMQ will sleep the schedulers, but I don't see any actual evidence of that
06:25 dcook         Of course, I'm not too worried about 1% CPU usage
06:25 dcook         But it's just interesting technically speaking
06:26 dcook         So yeah... looked at the Erlang runtime to see if there was anything obvious..
06:26 dcook         I think Golang is supposed to have some busy wait too, although I haven't seen it in practice yet. I think I've only seen it actually sleep when it had no work to do..
06:27 dcook         I just wish I'd make some blog entries so I'd keep records of my deep dives lol
06:33 dcook         Of course, now it's the end of my work day, and I don't really feel like working on technical things... heh
06:33 dcook         Anyway, have a good day ashimema[m] and all
06:33 dcook         And thanks for the cookies ;)
06:36 reiveune      hello
06:42 fridolin      hi
06:42 wahanui       hi, fridolin
06:45 alex_a        Bonjour
06:45 wahanui       que tal, alex_a
06:56 ashimema[m]   Sorry, got caught in the rush to get kids ready for school
06:56 ashimema[m]   Reading back now
07:15 ashimema[m]   is there a reason 19.05_D8 is disabled?
07:15 ashimema[m]   on Jenkins that is
10:10 henryb        I was looking at the 21.05 roles and wondered if there was space for a new role for someone to focus on accessibility
10:10 henryb        e.g. test from an accessibility perspective, update accessibility guidance and documentation, generally promote accessibility issues and file new bugs
10:10 henryb        A bit like the topic expert but without any extra QA points
10:11 henryb        I think it would be a great signal that we value accessibility
10:11 henryb        And an excuse/opportunity for someone to develop expertise
10:11 henryb        I guess the role would vary depending on the person's skillset and experience
10:12 henryb        does anyone have any thoughts? And if you think it's a good idea how do we go about adding a role?
10:12 kohaputti     It should be included to the QA process imho
10:12 kohaputti     but also pre-existing bugs should be filed
10:14 kohaputti     so I suggest we add some instructions for the qa team regarding this in https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/How_to_QA in the section "What to look for"
10:16 kohaputti     Also probably for the relevant parts it should be in the Coding guidelines (https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines)
10:19 henryb        Yes, I absolutely agree. But I thought that if there was someone (or more than one person?) who had accessibility in their role then they might be more likely to prioritise accessibility and update the instructions
10:22 oleonard      henryb are you interested in taking that position?
10:24 henryb        Possibly if nobody else wanted it although I'm sure there are other people much more qualified!
10:25 vfernandes    Can someone help me with a koha dev question? I'm trying to expand a Koha .pm file but i'm getting this error: "Template process failed: undef error - The method test is not covered by tests! at /KEEPS/koha/lib/C4/Templates.pm"
10:26 oleonard      henryb it's the kind of role that can be self-created if you'd like to see it happen. I think it's a great idea.
10:26 kidclamp      vfernandes, what files did you edit?
10:27 Joubu         vfernandes: did you restart plack?
10:28 oleonard      henryb having "official" recognition of the role might be useful if there was disagreement about the worthiness of the task, but I don't think there is.
10:30 oleonard      henryb: On the other hand, if "official" recognition of the role helped you get the time and resources in your "day job,"  then we can give you a title and an official badge if necessary :D
10:31 vfernandes    lib/Koha/Patron/Attribute/Type.pm
10:31 vfernandes    the error appears after restarting pack
10:32 kohaputti     oleonard, henryb yup, I think it is just important that somebody is interested doing the instructions and filing pre-existing bugs for this, whether there is separate role for this or not I don't think matters but I wouldn't be against having designated person for this
10:32 kohaputti     (there just needs to be a volunteer to do this work)
10:33 kidclamp      vfernandes: are you running kohadevbox? or koha testing docker?
10:33 kidclamp      generally in dev you aren't editing the lib/ files directly, but the ones in the kohaclone
10:33 vfernandes    i'm using a custom installation
10:35 ashimema[m]   I love the idea of someone focusing on accessability henryb :)
10:36 ashimema[m]   even if it ends up a temporary role that only exists for a few cycles.. having someone concentrate on working through adding suitable guidelines and documenting our shortcomings on that front would be fantastic.
10:36 kidclamp      vfernandes, restart plack AND memcached?
10:37 ashimema[m]   I know there's a real push for more accessability aware stuff at the moment.. obviously here in the UK, but I'm also aware of a few projects more widely in europe too.. would be great to have someone take the lead on helping to bring attention to those bugs and adding guidlines around them..
10:37 vfernandes    ohhh my bad... I put the method test in lib/Koha/Patron/Attribute/Types.pm instead of lib/Koha/Patron/Attribute/Types.pm :D
10:38 vfernandes    *instead of lib/Koha/Patron/Attribute/Type.pm
10:38 ashimema[m]   henryb++.. assuming you have a wiki account, feel free to stick a new role in and write a little proposal for it.. we can vote as a community to ratify it (and I'm yet to see a role like this turned down)
10:39 ashimema[m]   ah yes.. that would do it vfernandes :)
10:40 kidclamp      heh
10:42 ashimema[m]   fridolin++
10:43 ashimema[m]   unicorns++
10:46 henryb        Ok thanks for the comments and encouragement, I will add something to the wiki
10:47 ashimema[m]   let me know if you need a hand with anything
10:49 ashimema[m]   https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Roles_for_20.11 (there's an example of writing a proposal on there for Jonathan D as RM.. something similar for what you would like to see the role take on would be perfect)
10:50 ashimema[m]   or you could add the proposal for role to https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Project_roles and we can help flesh it out at a later date :)
11:44 koha-jenkins  Project Koha_19.05_D8 build #260: SUCCESS in 41 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.05_D8/260/
12:16 koha-jenkins  Project Koha_19.05_D8 build #261: SUCCESS in 32 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.05_D8/261/
12:18 tcohen        morning
12:35 kidclamp      ok guys, no one touch the holds code anymore from now on everyone must accept it as is
12:35 kidclamp      :-P
12:38 Joubu         deal
12:40 ashimema[m]   wha
12:40 ashimema[m]   morning
12:42 ashimema[m]   well.. afternoon here.. but morning for you tcohen
12:42 ashimema[m]   ;P
12:55 tcohen        late morning actually :-D
12:55 tcohen        it takes me almost an hour to pick the nanny as there's no public transportation
12:56 tcohen        kidclamp at least allow to push bug 25260
12:56 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25260 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , Merge 'reserves' and 'old_reserves' into a new 'holds' table
12:56 tcohen        it is tiny :-P
12:56 kidclamp      couldn't affect a thing :-P
12:58 ashimema[m]   lol
12:59 tcohen        I must admit I got surprised how easy was switching things into using the new table
12:59 tcohen        I expected many things to explode, and it was just a bunch of edge cases that had regression tests
13:00 * ashimema[m] likes that bug
13:00 ashimema[m]   did I not sign it off already..
13:00 ashimema[m]   oops
13:22 tony          Can someone tell me why I'm getting a Internal Server Error when in the admin area and trying to open 'about koha' --- BTW Everything else works perfect --- I'm using Koha 20
13:23 tcohen        what do the logs say?
13:24 tcohen        tail -f /var/log/koha/<instance>/plack-error.log
13:37 tony          tcohen -- tks for responding, the log sez: Use of uninitialized value $query in pattern match (m//) at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Search.pm line 1296. Use of uninitialized value $query in pattern match (m//) at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Search.pm line 1297. Use of uninitialized value $query in pattern match (m//) at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Search.pm line 1306. Use of uninitialized value $query in pattern match (m//) at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Search
13:37 tcohen        those are harmless warnings
13:37 tcohen        keep the command running (tail -f)
13:38 tcohen        and reload the interface to trigger the error
13:38 tony          I understand however I can initialize any of the 'perl' if I can't see what's there
13:38 Joubu         I would tail -f on the whole /var/log/koha/<instance>/*.log
13:46 tcohen        ah, plack-intranet-error.log?
13:46 tcohen        what Joubu said
13:48 tony          Thank you both -- I had to run perl -MCPAN -e 'install Bundle::KohaSupport' and now it is working --- tks again
13:49 tcohen        Oh
13:49 tcohen        So a plugin was breaking Koha?
13:50 tcohen        are you sure you're using Koha 20.05?
13:50 tcohen        that library dates back to 2008
13:52 Joubu         FYI all: Dev meeting in less than 10min
13:53 tony          Yes I'm sure another reason to get into the About Koha
13:53 Joubu         tony: you should not need that, really :) Something else is going wrong
13:54 tony          Hmmmmm well it is still running so I should see the results soon
13:54 tcohen        how did you install tony?
13:54 Joubu         it installs some modules, you are certainly missing one
13:54 tcohen        how did you install Koha I mean
13:55 tony          I installed via the web installation
13:55 tcohen        yes, but did you apt install koha-common?
13:55 tony          I'm running it on Ubuntu 16.04 so it might be something that is within that version
13:55 tcohen        https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Debian
13:56 tcohen        Ah, that Ubuntu version is not supported by Koha 20.05
13:56 tcohen        https://koha-community.org/koha-20-05-released/
13:57 Joubu         I may work actually
13:57 Joubu         At least our CI is green
13:57 tony          It shows on the site that it is still good for 20
13:57 tcohen        but it might have dependency issues
13:58 Joubu         I think mtj fixed that
13:58 tcohen        then why is tony having deps issues he
13:58 tcohen        ok
13:58 tony          That is just what I'm thinking since this version of Ubuntu is old
13:58 Joubu         but yeah, if you are starting from scratch you should prefer Ubuntu 18 or 20
13:59 tony          Well that is what I should have upgraded to but the client was pressuring so much I just kept it on 16
14:00 tony          It is showing me that I have some XML issues going on
14:01 tcohen        tony, we have a dev meeting right now
14:01 tcohen        lets talk  a bit later
14:01 tony          Got it
14:01 Joubu         #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 7 October 2020
14:01 huginn        Meeting started Wed Oct  7 14:01:31 2020 UTC.  The chair is Joubu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01 huginn        Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:01 huginn        The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_7_october_2020'
14:01 Joubu         #topic Introductions
14:01 Joubu         #info Jonathan Druart
14:01 Joubu         qa_team?
14:01 wahanui       i think qa_team is cait Joubu marcelr kohaputti josef_moravec tcohen kidclamp khall ashimema alex_a jajm matts
14:01 Joubu         rmaints?
14:01 wahanui       rmaints is lukeG, aleisha, and tuxayo, I SUMMON THEE!!âš¡âš¡
14:01 ashimema[m]   #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe
14:02 tcohen        #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Theke Solutions
14:02 jajm          #info Julian Maurice, BibLibre
14:02 Joubu         #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Development_IRC_meeting_7_October_2020
14:02 amoyano       #info Agustin Moyano, Theke Solutions
14:03 oleonard      #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries, Ohio, USA
14:04 Joubu         #topic Announcements
14:04 Joubu         #info Roles for 21.05 are opened https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Roles_for_21.05
14:04 Joubu         please add your name :)
14:04 Joubu         I candidate to continue as serving for RM
14:05 ashimema[m]   long live the RM
14:05 oleonard      Joubu++
14:05 Joubu         Anyone have something else to announce?
14:06 Joubu         as usual, just ask me with quick "!" or "." or whatever if you want me to stop
14:06 Joubu         otherwise I am moving on
14:06 Joubu         #topic Update from the Release manager (20.11)
14:06 ashimema[m]   :)
14:07 Joubu         bug 20582 and bug 22417 have been pushed this week
14:07 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20582 enhancement, P5 - low, Future, julian.maurice, Pushed to master , Turn Koha into a Mojolicious application
14:07 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22417 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to master , Add a task queue
14:07 Joubu         Keep going the work on those 2 and SO/QA on existing dependent patches or open/write follow-up bug reports.
14:07 amoyano       great news!
14:07 Joubu         #info If you face issues with ktd you certainly need to `docker-compose pull`
14:08 Joubu         Those using kohadevbox will certainly to install new dependencies. Let us know if you face any problems related to them.
14:08 Joubu         Other point, I would like to highlight bug 24488: That would be great to see one or two of us offering their help to aleisha.
14:08 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24488 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, aleisha, ASSIGNED , Holds to Pull sometimes shows the wrong 'first patron' details
14:09 Joubu         #info The new git server will be live next month, after the October stable releases
14:09 * ashimema[m] has been tip toeing around that one..
14:09 ashimema[m]   awesome on the gitserver front
14:09 Joubu         I have started to add the release-notes-needed flag on some bug reports pushed to 20.11 that need them. Please add them when missing! At least for the ones I flagged.
14:09 Joubu         And that's all for me, any questions?
14:10 Joubu         ha yes, release dates will be published on the ML very soon
14:10 Joubu         #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers
14:11 ashimema[m]   are there any here?
14:11 Joubu         #info October stable releases will be rolled out on 27th
14:11 * ashimema[m] is happy to see fridolin running for rmaint next cycle
14:11 Joubu         postponed after KohaCon
14:12 Joubu         #topic Updates from the QA team
14:12 ashimema[m]   QA has been flowing well.. but there's always more that can be done
14:13 Joubu         Queue is getting high a bit, 65 bugs
14:13 ashimema[m]   usual suspects are shouldering allot of the burden
14:13 Joubu         It would be great to see some of you focussed on Katrin's patches
14:13 Joubu         as she did an awesome job last month to lower the numbers
14:13 ashimema[m]   +1 (I'm locked out of most as I've done a chunk of SO on them)
14:14 ashimema[m]   most are simple to QA too.. boost your numbers by taking some on chaps
14:15 Joubu         #info @QA - QA ALL THE THINGS. There are easy ones to boost your name on top of the dashboard :)
14:16 Joubu         #info Actions from last meeting
14:16 Joubu         #topic Actions from last meeting
14:16 Joubu         #topic ashimema is collecting notes about bug 15522 and is going to review and dig a bit more into the code (postponed)
14:16 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15522 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Patch doesn't apply , New interface for revamped circulation rules
14:16 ashimema[m]   It would be nice to see some more QA's from matts and alex_a
14:16 matts         ashimema[m], I agree.
14:17 Joubu         ashimema[m]: what is the status of this?
14:17 ashimema[m]   OK.. 15522 generally I'm happy with.. I was hoping to see a vue alternative put forward for comparison to highlight the complexity/simplicity of the javascript
14:17 Joubu         What are the feedbacks of the users?
14:18 ashimema[m]   I believe the existing branch needs a minor rebase for the changes to our build scripts
14:18 amoyano       I'll try to add my 2 cents on vue for that one
14:18 ashimema[m]   UX wise everyone seemed happy
14:18 tcohen        amoyano++
14:18 ashimema[m]   amoyano that would be awesome
14:18 tcohen        there's the need to revisit the gulpfile
14:18 tcohen        I'll take a look there
14:18 Joubu         amoyano: when do you think you will have time to dedicate to it?
14:18 ashimema[m]   I've a feeling at this point it's not a 20.11 piece but one for very very early 21.05
14:19 Joubu         it's definitely too late for 20.11
14:19 ashimema[m]   I'd rather wait a month/cycle and see a nice proof of vue
14:19 Joubu         maybe something to present during KohaCon?
14:19 amoyano       I'll try to do something this week
14:19 Joubu         I really would like to get some feedback from real users
14:19 ashimema[m]   I'm not expert enough in either react or vue to have a strong feeling.. but I will admit the react code looks complex
14:19 Joubu         (ie. not devs)
14:19 ashimema[m]   amoyano that is awesome
14:20 ashimema[m]   I got our support team to give it a run down and they liked it..
14:20 ashimema[m]   especially once they'd had a chat with their contemporaries at ByWater..
14:20 Joubu         #action amoyano Will try to provide a Vue alternative to bug 15522
14:20 ashimema[m]   we also have a customer on standby to play with it
14:20 Joubu         ashimema[m]: where are the notes you collected?
14:21 ashimema[m]   in the end it was sumamrised as.. "We like it"
14:21 amoyano       hehe
14:21 Joubu         Could we imagine a sandbox with sample data with a lot of circ rules?
14:21 Joubu         and ask the list for feedback?
14:22 ashimema[m]   that's a nice idea
14:22 Joubu         you are voluntering, right?
14:22 ashimema[m]   how big is big..
14:22 tcohen        ashimema[m]++
14:22 Joubu         #action ashimema Setup a sandbox with lot of circ rules (ideally from production data) to test 15522. Then ask the list for feedback.
14:23 Joubu         great :)
14:23 ashimema[m]   the tests we ran with it were with a customers data.. a few hundred lines of circ rules
14:23 Joubu         #topic davidnind Find and update relevant places to record Perl version required, including release notes, manual and wiki (one source of the truth) (postponed)
14:23 ashimema[m]   I'll ask said customer if they're happy for me to share such a set (with anonymised users of course)
14:23 Joubu         I think I pinged him at the last meeting but cannot remember his answer :-/
14:24 ashimema[m]   me either
14:24 Joubu         @later tell davidnind Can you update the actions assigned to you for the next dev meetings please?
14:24 huginn        Joubu: The operation succeeded.
14:24 Joubu         #action davidnind Find and update relevant places to record Perl version required, including release notes, manual and wiki (one source of the truth) (postponed)
14:24 Joubu         #action davidnind to add information about what to backport to the release maintainers role page (as a starting point for further notes and guidance)
14:25 Joubu         #topic ashimema to write a guideline to forbidding the use of type "number"
14:25 ashimema[m]   hmm
14:26 ashimema[m]   I thought I did that
14:26 ashimema[m]   just trying to find the draft
14:26 amoyano       is it part of the qa script?
14:26 Joubu         I think so
14:26 Joubu         or there is a merge request
14:27 Joubu         https://gitlab.com/koha-community/qa-test-tools/-/issues/38
14:27 Joubu         there is a merge request associated to the issue
14:27 ashimema[m]   OK.. seems I never added it
14:28 * fridolin    waves
14:28 Joubu         and it has been approved, I will merge it. I guess I was waiting for the guidelines to be approved
14:28 ashimema[m]   I'll add it to the guidelines as "ACC2: Input type number should not be used"
14:28 Joubu         #action ashimema to write a guideline to forbidding the use of type "number" (postponed)
14:28 ashimema[m]   ajha.. I bet I drafted it on the bug report
14:28 Joubu         #topic  tuxayo to collect notes (if any) from past&present RMaints about their backport policies.
14:29 Joubu         #info tuxayo collected notes from past and present RMaints about their backport policies at https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/User:Victor_Grousset_-_tuxayo/Release_maintenance_tips
14:29 Joubu         #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...)
14:30 Joubu         ashimema[m]: ideally we should update the action entry directly on the meeting page
14:30 Joubu         that will help to know if we should postpone or if the action has been done
14:30 Joubu         especially if the author does not attend the meeting
14:31 ashimema[m]   good idea
14:31 Joubu         #topic What to do when updatedatabase fails ?
14:31 ashimema[m]   thanks
14:31 Joubu         jajm: you added that, right?
14:32 ashimema[m]   It comes up semi-frequently
14:32 ashimema[m]   most recent broader discussion is on bug 25078
14:32 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25078 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, In Discussion , Gracefully stop updatedatabase/installer when a database change cannot be applied
14:32 Joubu         yes
14:32 Joubu         I was trying to find this one
14:32 jajm          Joubu, yes, but I wasn't aware of bug 25078
14:32 ashimema[m]   which was raised a a bug after discussions on bug 22887
14:32 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22887 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to master , authorised_values is missing a unique constraint on category + authorised_value
14:33 koha-jenkins  Yippee, build fixed!
14:33 wahanui       Congratulations!
14:33 koha-jenkins  Project Koha_19.11_U16 build #8: FIXED in 44 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_U16/8/
14:33 ashimema[m]   and more recently came up in bug 18050
14:33 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=18050 minor, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Signed Off , Missing constraint on aqbudgets.budget_period_id in aqbudgets
14:33 Joubu         basically, see my last comment on 25078
14:33 ashimema[m]   In short.. there's a strong feeling amongst some that updatedatebase should somehow gracefully fail to ensure the database is consistent for all as apposed to just warning.
14:34 Joubu         (note to myself: never write you are going to do something during the next dev cycle...)
14:34 ashimema[m]   hehe
14:35 ashimema[m]   well.. is it still a goal people are strongly feeling should be met
14:35 jajm          Joubu, "As I said I would prefer to have the whole thing ran in one go." so you want to run every DB update even if the first failed ?
14:35 Joubu         My point is: we can explode, people is supposed to have a backup.
14:35 ashimema[m]   my feeling is as much as I'd like to see it done.. it also doesn't present me with enough of an issue to work on it personally..
14:35 Joubu         jajm: yes
14:35 Joubu         you get all the errors
14:35 ashimema[m]   and.. I don't feel we should be failing existing bug reports for it
14:36 Joubu         then you restore the backup, fix the problems and run the upgrade again
14:36 jajm          errors that can happen only because the first failed
14:36 Joubu         it's just a my developper point of view. Seems easier to fix
14:37 Joubu         than redoing the whole script every error it faces
14:38 Joubu         I am suggesting to continue the discussion on the bug report
14:38 Joubu         I am open to anything we decide and I am willing to work on it if we find an concensus
14:39 Joubu         ok?
14:39 jajm          it seems dangerous to assume everyone has db backups and that the backups work :)
14:40 jajm          ok to continue on the bug report
14:41 Joubu         Another last minute discussion?
14:41 Joubu         #topic Set time of next meeting
14:42 Joubu         #info Next meeting: 28 October 2020, 20 UTC
14:42 Joubu         in 3 weeks, after the KohaCon
14:42 Joubu         #endmeeting
14:42 huginn        Meeting ended Wed Oct  7 14:42:28 2020 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
14:42 huginn        Minutes:        https://meetings.koha-community.org/2020/development_irc_meeting_7_october_2020.2020-10-07-14.01.html
14:42 huginn        Minutes (text): https://meetings.koha-community.org/2020/development_irc_meeting_7_october_2020.2020-10-07-14.01.txt
14:42 huginn        Log:            https://meetings.koha-community.org/2020/development_irc_meeting_7_october_2020.2020-10-07-14.01.log.html
14:42 ashimema[m]   Thanks Joubu
14:47 Joubu         ashimema[m]: maybe you should link the gov uk recommendation to ACC2?
14:47 Joubu         hmrc
14:48 Joubu         no it was not hmrc :D
14:48 Joubu         https://technology.blog.gov.uk/2020/02/24/why-the-gov-uk-design-system-team-changed-the-input-type-for-numbers/
14:48 Joubu         I meant this one
14:51 ashimema[m]   I think they've rebranded themselves a bit since the original
14:51 ashimema[m]   but yeah.. not a bad idea to link to it.
14:54 tcohen        Joubu++
15:10 reiveune      bye
16:00 kidclamp      Joubu: please see my followup on 24488 and approve or obsolete
16:04 Joubu         erk
16:04 Joubu         I was going to submit a follow-up :-(
16:05 ashimema[m]   lol
16:05 ashimema[m]   you did ask for help in the meeting ;)
16:05 ashimema[m]   glad I'm here to see others do it.. as I was also thinking of jumping in next.. haha
16:05 * ashimema[m] lets the dust settle a bit
16:06 kidclamp      heh, sorry
16:06 Joubu         kidclamp: I think you missed something
16:06 Joubu         I am attaching mine
16:07 Joubu         kidclamp: we did almost the same things, but you forgot the { '!=', undef } part
16:07 Joubu         I think it should be kept
16:08 Joubu         also, the count of items: we don't need the pass a column and "distinct"
16:08 Joubu         otherwise yes, it's the same idea :)
16:08 Joubu         what do you think?
16:08 kidclamp      yes, I missed some :-) nice one
16:09 Joubu         kidclamp: I was wondering if we should not actually retrieve all the items instead of replaying the same query
16:10 Joubu         we could do that in perl
16:11 Joubu         like: my @items = Koha::Items->the_search; my @location = uniq {map $_->location} @items;
16:11 Joubu         misplaced {}, but you got the point I'm sure
16:11 kidclamp      I did wonder which would be more efficient
19:07 kathryn       hi caroline I'm here again for the meeting, did I also have the time wrong? :)
19:08 tcohen        something's wrong with bugzilla
19:09 tcohen        kathryn: did you get a bunch of materials from Argentina?
19:10 caroline      hi again kathryn! it is in an hour (according to the calendar...)
19:10 caroline      hi davidnind!
19:11 kathryn       tchoen I have a new one yesterday labelled Aniversario Koha-ffyh not sure if that's one you know
19:11 tcohen        it is
19:11 kathryn       cool :)
19:12 davidnind     hi caroline!
19:12 kathryn       hi davidnind
19:12 tcohen        hi caroline davidnind
19:15 davidnind     hi kathryn tcohen
19:22 caroline      hi tcohen!
19:51 aleisha       hello
19:52 caroline      hi aleisha!
19:52 tcohen        hi aleisha
19:53 marieluce     hi everyone
19:54 aleisha       missed the dev meeting but here for the community meeting!
19:59 caroline      Joubu around?
20:00 caroline      if not any volunteers to chair the meeting?
20:02 caroline      I guess I can do it since I'm around and don't have much to say
20:02 caroline      #startmeeting General IRC meeting 7 October 2020
20:02 huginn        Meeting started Wed Oct  7 20:02:34 2020 UTC.  The chair is caroline. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:02 huginn        Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:02 huginn        The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting_7_october_2020'
20:02 caroline      #topic Introductions
20:02 caroline      please use "#info" in front of your introduction to have it show up in the automatic minutes
20:03 aleisha       #info Aleisha Amohia, Catalyst IT, Wellington ZN
20:03 aleisha       oops
20:03 caroline      #info Caroline Cyr La Rose, inLibro, Montreal
20:03 marieluce     #info Marie-Luce Laflamme, inLibro, Montreal
20:03 davidnind     #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand
20:03 lisettelatah  #info Lisette Scheer Latah County Library District, Moscow, Idaho, US
20:03 kathryn       #info Kathryn Tyree, Catalyst IT, NZ
20:03 henryb        #info Henry Bolshaw, House of Lords Library, UK
20:05 caroline      cait sends her apologies as she is not able to attend today
20:05 caroline      #topic Announcements
20:05 rangi         #nfo Chris Cormack, Catalyst IT
20:05 rangi         lol
20:05 caroline      The wiki pae for 21.05 roles is open!
20:05 rangi         #info Chris Cormack, Catalyst IT
20:06 caroline      #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Roles_for_21.05
20:06 caroline      #info Wiki page for 21.05 roles is open add your names!
20:07 caroline      any other announcements? (we'll do a separate topic for Kohacon)
20:07 kathryn       :)
20:09 caroline      #topic KohaCon updates
20:09 caroline      the floor is yours
20:09 wahanui       i already had it that way, caroline.
20:09 kathryn       Thanks!
20:09 caroline      wahanui what is the floor?
20:09 wahanui       well, the floor is yours
20:09 kathryn       Here's something I prepared earlier :)
20:09 kathryn       Catalyst are very busy with preparation, but it's a moving train now and it's going to arrive on 19 October!
20:09 kathryn       #info Please can all online and in-person attendees register at https://2020.kohacon.org/posts/registration/ there is room for more in person, and the internet has more space too :) We will email the URL for the stream to everyone registered.
20:09 kathryn       All presenters who are pre-recording please send in your recordings this week.
20:09 kathryn       Thanks to all that contributed to the video! We hope it works out when we put it all together - we will see!
20:09 kathryn       All are welcome at Kohacon, whether they use Koha now or not and are interested to listen in and see how they can apply our Koha stories in their own libraries. Please share the news :)
20:10 caroline      less than 2 weeks!
20:10 kathryn       way less! let me try and put the rest in the in minutes
20:10 kathryn       #info All presenters who are pre-recording please send in your recordings this week.
20:10 kathryn       Thanks to all that contributed to the video! We hope it works out when we put it all together - we will see!
20:10 kathryn       #info All are welcome at Kohacon, whether they use Koha now or not and are interested to listen in and see how they can apply our Koha stories in their own libraries. Please share the news :)
20:11 kathryn       sorry one more time for the notes
20:11 kathryn       #info Thanks to all that contributed to the video! We hope it works out when we put it all together - we will see!
20:11 caroline      kathryn++
20:11 marieluce     kathryn++
20:12 kathryn       In short, we're seeing lots of registrations at the moment, keep them coming, it's all happening!
20:12 hayley        kathryn++
20:12 kathryn       Anyone else want to add anything or ask?
20:12 caroline      And for those in Europe and America, don't forget that it starts on October 18 for us
20:12 caroline      I just realized this this week
20:12 caroline      we live int he past
20:13 aleisha       hehe
20:13 kathryn       yeah caroline, also we just started daylight savings which is why I thought this meeting was an hour ago, as well as yesterday ;)
20:13 thd           #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
20:13 kathryn       perhaps we'll put that in the next koha list email
20:13 caroline      presenters, make sure to check your times otherwise you will be one day late lol!
20:14 henryb        Will the in-person workshops be recorded or available online too?
20:14 kathryn       #info we'll send out the stream link a day or two before the conference
20:14 caroline      good question henryb!
20:15 kathryn       henryb no sorry :( we decided it's a bit hard on the presenters to cater to both in person and remote learners/participants
20:16 kathryn       if we can share some notes/summaries/slides we will do that
20:16 caroline      Workshops on Oct. 25 are online though?
20:17 caroline      and what about the DIY days?
20:17 kathryn       no, there was just one online workshop proposed, the rest are in person
20:18 henryb        Ok thanks kathryn. The workshops sound really interesting so it would be great to see notes afterwards if that's possible.
20:18 kathryn       The DIY days we'll be in IRC, in person here in Wellington NZ, and have video conference available if people want to work together that way
20:19 kathryn       henryb we also don't have a camera set up in the workshops room, whereas the main auditorium has all the gear fro recording/streaming
20:19 caroline      just to summarize for online viewers it's days 1-3 for talks and days 6 and 7 for DIY on IRC, is that right?
20:20 kathryn       yes
20:20 caroline      #info for online viewers it's days 1-3 for talks and days 6 and 7 for DIY on IRC
20:20 caroline      thanks for the clarification kathryn!
20:21 henryb        Looking forward to it! Although still not sure when I will sleep
20:21 rangi         plus the one online workshop if ppl are interested in rfid stuff
20:21 kathryn       #info #kohacon20 is the hashtag!
20:21 caroline      #info there is one online workshop on day 5 too
20:22 caroline      davidnind will be manning the twitter?
20:23 kathryn       Tosca from Catalyst will be on @nzkoha
20:23 caroline      any other questions for the kohacon organizers?
20:23 rangi         im sure davidnind will be retweeting and adding more on @kohails too :)
20:23 kathryn       which we've been using for the conference - but would love to have david on ^ yep :)
20:24 davidnind     I was planning to, and can provide access if anyone else wants to - hopefully don't get blocked this time for too many tweets!
20:24 davidnind     might not be the same volume - not sure whether it is too much live tweeting sonetimes...
20:24 caroline      thank you organizing team for turning around and organizing this for the new noemal
20:25 caroline      #info follow @nzkoha and @kohails on Twitter during the conference
20:25 davidnind     kathyrn++ (and team!)
20:26 kathryn       you're welcome, lets see how it goes :) looking forward to it!
20:26 henryb        kathryn++
20:26 caroline      alrighty if there aren't any other questions we'll move on to the next topic
20:27 caroline      #topic Update on releases
20:27 caroline      anybody from the meeting this morning can summarize?
20:27 caroline      rmaints?
20:27 wahanui       rmaints is lukeG, aleisha, and tuxayo, I SUMMON THEE!!âš¡âš¡
20:27 aleisha       hello
20:27 aleisha       i wasnt in the meeting this morning
20:28 caroline      I guess Jobou and team are on schedule to release 20.11 in november
20:28 aleisha       basically
20:28 wahanui       basically is checks the Bugzilla statuses are correct, then updates the status, adds the 'released in versions' text and adds a comment
20:28 hayley        shh wahanui
20:28 aleisha       #info string freeze for october release will be 20th and release will be 27th
20:29 sam_s         where is the koha-conf.xml located in the koha install? The manual refrences it but doesn't say where it's located
20:30 caroline      alright, anything else for releases?
20:31 hayley        sam_s usually /etc/koha/sites/<instance>/koha-conf.xml I think
20:31 caroline      ok then, moving on
20:31 caroline      #topic Actions from last meeting
20:31 caroline      #info no actions from last meeting
20:32 caroline      any other topics y'all wanted to discuss?
20:33 caroline      I feel like I'm going through topics very fast, don't hesitate to tell me to wait a bit :)
20:33 davidnind     lisettlelatah++ and koha-US team for a successful online conference last month
20:34 caroline      lisettelatah++
20:34 lisettelatah  Thanks! all the recordings and slides are up on our website for anyone who missed it.
20:35 lisettelatah  http://koha-us.org/learn/conferences/onlinetogether2020/
20:35 caroline      #info recordings and slides of Koha-US conference are on Koha-US website
20:35 caroline      #link http://koha-us.org/learn/conferences/onlinetogether2020/
20:37 caroline      #topic Set time of Next meeting
20:37 caroline      First week of november?
20:38 caroline      I propose to still keep it at this time for Kohacon wrap up, even if it's a bit inconvenient for europeans
20:38 sam_s         hayley: thx!
20:38 davidnind     +1
20:39 thd           +1
20:39 hayley        sam_s :)
20:39 caroline      So wednesday nov 4 20UTC?
20:39 thd           +1
20:39 caroline      Objections?
20:40 aleisha       +1
20:40 henryb        +1
20:40 davidnind     +1
20:40 caroline      #info Next meeting: 4 November 2020, 20 UTC
20:40 caroline      #endmeeting
20:40 huginn        Meeting ended Wed Oct  7 20:40:37 2020 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
20:40 huginn        Minutes:        https://meetings.koha-community.org/2020/general_irc_meeting_7_october_2020.2020-10-07-20.02.html
20:40 huginn        Minutes (text): https://meetings.koha-community.org/2020/general_irc_meeting_7_october_2020.2020-10-07-20.02.txt
20:40 huginn        Log:            https://meetings.koha-community.org/2020/general_irc_meeting_7_october_2020.2020-10-07-20.02.log.html
20:40 davidnind     caroline++
20:41 marieluce     caroline++
20:41 caroline      thanks everyone! I can't wait to see your faces at Kohacon!
20:41 henryb        caroline++
20:41 caroline      (or the backs of your heads if you're not presenting lol)
20:43 caroline      @later tell ashimema[m] can you run the post-meeting script for minutes?
20:43 huginn        caroline: The operation succeeded.
20:54 tcohen        oh noes
20:55 * tcohen      got distracted (kids)
20:55 tcohen        koha++
20:55 tcohen        caroline++
21:41 sam_s         hey, i'm trying to work on a plugin in koha testing docker, but I cant figure out how to enable plugins in it. I thought starting with "kup" would do this as it's described as "Start the env, plugin development set" but the plugins option doesn't show up under more when starting it in this mode