IRC log for #koha, 2019-08-01

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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06:30 marcelr hi #koha
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06:36 reiveune hello
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06:58 fridolin hi
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07:02 alex_a bonjour
07:02 wahanui hello, alex_a
07:29 calire morning
07:34 cait morning
07:43 magnuse god morgen
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08:28 mtj @later tell lukeG: perhaps add a pic to BZ 23408
08:28 huginn` mtj: The operation succeeded.
08:45 magnuse bug 23408
08:45 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=23408 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Relatives' checkout table columns are not configured properly
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11:35 oleonard Hi all
11:41 calire hi oleonard
11:41 wahanui hi oleopard
11:41 oleonard Hi calire how are you doing today?
11:42 calire oleonard: alright, thanks. Just tired! :)
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11:44 calire no longer require an ice pack glued to my face :D
11:44 oleonard I didn't get a delivery confirmation on that emergency flan, so... I guess that was a bust.
11:46 calire I'll keep an eye on the post ;)
11:46 kidclamp I patched it magnuse
11:56 kidclamp bug 23407
11:57 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=23407 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , XSLT Details pages don't use items, we shouldn't pass them
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12:03 oleonard kidclamp: I'm glad I googled this issue. I like the "Fancier" solution offered here:
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12:04 oleonard Oh you included that :D
12:04 oleonard Never mind XD
12:06 kidclamp I lnciuded the dirty one
12:06 kidclamp we should try the clean one
12:07 oleonard I'm putting it in Bug 23388
12:07 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=23388 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nick, Signed Off , Make system preferences links
12:07 oleonard Whoops, not that one
12:07 kidclamp isn't that the one?
12:07 oleonard Bug 23410
12:07 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=23410 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Add submenus to system preferences sidebar menu
12:07 kidclamp ah putting it on yours :-)
12:08 oleonard Or I could add it to yours. That probably makes more sense?
12:09 * oleonard has had too much coffee already
12:09 kidclamp if you approve of mine :-)
12:09 kidclamp it was a thrown together idea
12:11 oleonard I resent the implication that all my thrown together ideas might not be perfect gems.
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12:48 coriA__ too much coffee, is that really a thing, oleonard?
12:49 oleonard When I feel this much overwhelming love for everyone around me it's definitely too much coffee
12:49 coriA__ lol
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12:57 davidnind Hi AndyBoze!
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13:00 cait alex_a_: I think bug 23409 could be solve nicely with TT filets
13:00 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=23409 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, alex.arnaud, Needs Signoff , Show borrowernotes and opacnote's lines feeds (staff)
13:00 cait filters
13:00 cait we have them in a few places now already
13:01 davidnind Hopefully there are enough of us here for the documentation meeting
13:01 AndyBoze Hi davidnind.
13:01 davidnind We'll get started...
13:02 davidnind #startmeeting Documentation IRC meeting 1 August 2019
13:02 huginn` Meeting started Thu Aug  1 13:02:03 2019 UTC.  The chair is davidnind. Information about MeetBot at
13:02 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
13:02 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Documentation IRC meeting 1 August 2019)
13:02 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'documentation_irc_meeting_1_august_2019'
13:02 davidnind #topic Introductions
13:02 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Documentation IRC meeting 1 August 2019)
13:02 davidnind #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand
13:03 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
13:03 AndyBoze #info Andy Boze, University of Notre Dame, USA
13:03 cait caroline_catlady: ping
13:04 alex_a_ cait, nice
13:04 alex_a_ Thx!
13:04 caroline_catlady hi just got in!
13:04 caroline_catlady #info Caroline Cyr La Rose, inLibro
13:04 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
13:04 caroline_catlady I always forget that the meeting is earlier now
13:05 davidnind Hi caroline_catlady and cait!
13:05 caroline_catlady hi davidnind!
13:05 davidnind #info Agenda https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ing_1_August_2019
13:05 davidnind #topic Action points
13:05 Topic for #koha is now Action points (Meeting topic: Documentation IRC meeting 1 August 2019)
13:05 davidnind hi thd!
13:05 thd hello
13:05 wahanui que tal, thd
13:06 davidnind The list seems to get longer!
13:06 fridolin joined #koha
13:06 cait fridolin: joining the docs meeting? :)
13:07 davidnind :)
13:07 caroline_catlady way to recruit cait! +1
13:07 fridolin cait: sorry im really under water
13:07 fridolin bloup
13:07 davidnind throws a life raft..(or maybe water wings)
13:08 davidnind Have been having fun over the last few days working through some of the action points, but nothing significant to report
13:09 davidnind working through the installation guide is going okay, but is a little challenging, so hopefully some updates in the next few days
13:09 cait fridolin: don't drown please!
13:09 caroline_catlady me either for git guide... I started a paper and pen draft, but it's just got "git" at the top ^^;;
13:09 cait it's a start
13:09 cait and you got over the blank paper
13:10 cait I've tried to pick up some small tasks
13:10 fridolin thanks ;)
13:10 davidnind cait++
13:10 cait but really small stuff
13:10 davidnind rangi always seems to beat me to the doing the merges!
13:11 AndyBoze I was looking to work on some easy tasks like capitalization. Having a problem with GitLab, thouhg. Viewer won't start, just get an error.
13:11 cait davidnind++ caroline_catlady++ holly++
13:11 cait AndyBoze: i had that too, but clicking edit still worked
13:11 cait even if the view seemed broken
13:12 AndyBoze Gee, didn't think to try that. :-(
13:12 tcohen morning
13:12 caroline_catlady going back to action points, do we know if the wiki software has been updated?
13:13 thd Updating is non-trivial
13:13 magnuse <meta name="generator" content="MediaWiki 1.16.2" />
13:13 thd We discussed the issue a little in the general meeting.
13:13 davidnind I think I've clicked 'raw' or used the Web IDE
13:14 cait i think the conclusion at the meeting was favoring a fresh start
13:14 cait with the wiki software to investigate
13:14 caroline_catlady really?
13:14 wahanui i think really is good to have josef_moravec back.. always get a boost from seeing a bunch of signoffs :)
13:14 cait Equinox still willing to host
13:14 cait and davidnind volunteering to do help with planning?
13:14 thd Suggestions were made to possibly start over.  The problem is that the existing MediaWiki install uses Postgres.
13:15 thd I have started work again to try the following:[…]PostgresqlToMysql
13:15 thd[…]l/
13:15 davidnind #info Wiki software update bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=23073
13:15 huginn` Bug 23073: normal, P5 - low, ---, gmc, NEW , needs updating to a later version
13:16 thd I think we should experiment with options.
13:16 davidnind Also, I've haven;t added any notes yet from the general meeting - there was some good discussion
13:17 thd The problems with the current WiKi stem largely from the experiment being cut short by business conflict over which the old wiki was shut down and outside community control.
13:17 * caroline_catlady should read minutes for meetings she misses -_-
13:18 davidnind I'm still keen on using WikiMedia, there are some really nice things in later versions
13:18 thd The experiment with Postgres suddenly became the default with no testing.
13:19 thd I am setting up a new server to test migration to MySQL when I last had time disk space was less of an issue.
13:19 thd Current Postgres dump size which may be a vervose dump seems to be about 100 GB.
13:20 davidnind that's big!
13:20 davidnind thd++
13:20 thd I also intend to put up an empty test for faceted use.
13:21 thd I had always intended to put forward a specific proposal about transitioning to faceting tagging with SemanticMediaWiki.
13:21 thd SemanticMediaWiki does not work with Postgres.
13:22 davidnind #info Wiki update: test server being setup and starting to work through migration options and issues
13:22 thd gmcharlt and I did not know that Postgres did not work with SemanticMediaWiki when we put up the initial MediaWiki test which then suddenly became the default.
13:23 thd The big problem with simply updating without migrating to MySQL is that the only migration scripts we have are old like the version of the Wiki.
13:24 thd If we update without migrating then we may be unable to migrate to MySQL for proper functionality later.
13:25 cait I hurt a bit for all the work a migration would mean... setting up a new installation might give us some advantage - a lot of the information on the current wiki is not really well structured and outdated
13:25 cait and it seems it woudl avoid a lot of painful work that might still leave us with some issues if not everything works perfectly
13:25 thd Sadly I was a couple of days from testing migration a few years ago when I was a couple of days away from a test.
13:25 thd We should test both migration and starting over.
13:26 cait ok
13:26 caroline_catlady Does starting over need a test?
13:26 thd Yes, much is outdated and everything needs appropriate labelling.
13:26 thd Starting over should have a test about how to approach tagging content so that it is findable.
13:27 thd A plan for tagging content was a major issue of the first KohaCon.
13:28 thd The trouble at the time was that almost no wiki content was ever tagged and then it became lost in Dokuwiki.
13:28 thd I have a commitment to marking everything old.
13:29 thd I now have three days a week at a counter with a computer in front of me with time between book buys to do a lot of marking things obsolete.
13:29 caroline_catlady cool!
13:30 davidnind Excellent!
13:30 wahanui darn tootin' it is.
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13:30 davidnind I started work on a structure/plan for the content but haven't got too far yet! There are some nicely organised areas (like the dev manual), but others not so much...
13:30 davidnind I think it is great that we've made a start, even though there are going to be some 'challenges' along the way
13:30 thd We should also not be making wood!  I really do understand rangi's retort about the state of the wiki.
13:30 davidnind wood?
13:31 thd My elderly neighbour for whom I cared for eight years has passed on and now I do not have to devote all my time to her.
13:31 thd rangi meant that it was not flexible.
13:31 davidnind aah!
13:31 thd Not to interpret for him.
13:32 thd Faceting is flexible.
13:32 davidnind Anything else at this stage on the wiki? It's great a start is being made
13:33 thd The categories adopted in a hierarchical manner and other things were partly a legacy of the only way to have a browsable list of tagged content in Dokuwiki.
13:33 thd MediaWiki is much more flexible in that regard.
13:33 thd I am very behind and very sorry about that.
13:34 davidnind thd++
13:34 thd davidnind: I may need your help or anyone else to test migration or help me with bugs in migration.
13:34 davidnind happy to help!
13:35 cait me too :)
13:35 thd The python script we have to test migration has hard coded variable names.  I suppose we can always try to reach out to the author to be sure we have identified the variable names.
13:36 thd I have created the testing server on Linode.  My own host is much less flexible for scaling up memory or disc space to accommodate 100GB.
13:37 thd If there are problems with current versions of Postgres, MySQL. or Python using the 7 year old migration script and the old Postgres database I intend to go backwards in versions until it works.
13:39 thd While the MediaWiki version is old we have alway kept PHP and the underlying Debian version sufficiently up to date to mitigate against security issues.
13:39 davidnind that sounds laborious and time consuming!
13:40 davidnind #info Wiki update - have kept PHP + Debian OS up-to-date
13:40 thd It may work perfectly at the first attempt.
13:40 thd We do not know unless we try to test.
13:40 davidnind that would be great if it does!
13:41 davidnind Thanks thd!
13:41 thd Even if we ultimately choose to archive the old state, I would like to work on the old to put in a much better state than it has devolved into.
13:42 davidnind #info Updating existing wiki content or marking as obsolete will help with migration - please help out if you can
13:42 thd I started trying to do this two weeks ago when the issue was getting attention again and I had some time but I had lost track of the old equinox servername fo ssh access.
13:44 davidnind Is it okay to move on to the next agenda items? I'm conscious of the time.. seems like we are starting to get some some traction on the wiki update, so that is great
13:44 thd Looking at the server for the first time in a which gmcharlt really did a very thorough job for automated backup dumps etc.  Some things are also under version control.
13:44 thd Yes sorry.
13:45 gmcharlt as an aside, my immediate plans on the hosting front are to
13:45 gmcharlt 1. set up an empty new VM by next week
13:45 thd Again, I am not sorry for helping my neighbour who had no one else but I am sorry that my personal commitments to help people who really need it take away from my other activities.
13:45 gmcharlt 2. attempt a trial mediawiki upgrade, mostly for the sake of finding immediate gotchas
13:46 cait gmcharlt++
13:46 thd gmcharlt did you see the links I posted about the migration script?
13:46 davidnind gmcharlt++
13:47 davidnind thd++
13:47 thd[…]PostgresqlToMysql
13:47 thd[…]l/
13:47 oleonard gmcharlt++
13:48 davidnind #topic What's been done so far
13:48 Topic for #koha is now What's been done so far (Meeting topic: Documentation IRC meeting 1 August 2019)
13:48 davidnind Sorry, probably need to cover the rest of the items:-D
13:49 davidnind I've added a quick update on the agenda of changes made to the manual, thank you everyone for the updates!
13:49 davidnind Only other thing is that we (caroline_catlady + myself) have access to the Koha YouTube channel
13:50 davidnind Working on getting the Kohacon19 videos up
13:50 davidnind at some stage we could look at how we could use YouTube for the documentation - short tutorials, etc
13:51 davidnind hehe :)
13:52 davidnind you can never have enough cat videos!
13:52 davidnind anyone else aware of other things being done?
13:52 cait #info caroline_catlady and davidnind have access to the YouTube channel now
13:53 caroline_catlady sorry, not here for the moment
13:53 davidnind #topic Workflow
13:53 Topic for #koha is now Workflow (Meeting topic: Documentation IRC meeting 1 August 2019)
13:54 caroline_catlady back!
13:55 davidnind I've worked through the workflow a couple of times, so have some minor updates to make - may ask some questions about git and the workflow at some stage
13:56 davidnind There is a proposal for the coding guidelines from ashimema about documenting new features
13:56 davidnind #info DOC2 coding guideline https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]nes#Documentation
13:58 davidnind I don't know enough about it, but it seems like a good idea - new features get documented (or initial draft) by those who worked on it (if I understand that right)
13:58 caroline_catlady I think that was his intention, yes
13:58 cait i like it, but it might ned a little active pushing
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13:58 caroline_catlady ashimema got his whip out
13:58 cait heh
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13:59 cait QA will push too of course
13:59 cait i think even if we got a textual draft instead of a patch it woudl be helpful
13:59 cait i got a question too - is onw a good moment?
13:59 davidnind having some sort of template for the different types of changes may help as well
14:00 davidnind go ahead cait!
14:00 cait I noticed there is an 'approval' feature on gitlab
14:00 cait i treid it out and rangi said it was helpful for him because it helps to decide what is good to push
14:00 cait we haven't made it mandatory, but maybe as a first step if people agree it's helpful we coudl encourage using it?
14:00 cait there is also a thumbs up thing
14:01 cait hm that said i am not sure how gets to see the approve tag, but i think the thumbs up and down are always there
14:03 cait just an idea to throw out
14:03 davidnind It seems worth trying - if I understand it right before something is merged, someone else would have to review and approve the proposed changes?
14:03 cait i think pushing the button won#t hurt :)
14:03 cait I would not propose to make ti mandatory right now
14:04 caroline_catlady I like the idea of revewing (just to get typos, for example), but it seems time consuming
14:04 cait i mean we could, but with the still low submission rate it might make things slower
14:04 cait yeah
14:04 caroline_catlady We are not a lot of people
14:04 cait yep
14:04 caroline_catlady I'm not against it
14:04 cait just wanted to see if we'd like to play with it
14:05 davidnind seems a good idea to me
14:05 davidnind #info look at using approval process in GitLab before changes are merged, not mandatory at this stage
14:05 cait so people know those feature are there if they want to give a +1 to a merge request pending
14:06 cait that was all from me :)
14:06 davidnind it is always a good idea for someone else to have a look if that is possible
14:06 davidnind thanks cait!
14:07 davidnind I take it everyone is supportive of ashimema's proposal to get some initial documentation written for new features, for teh documentation team to tidy up and incorporate?
14:08 caroline_catlady makes a lot of sense to me
14:08 caroline_catlady the devs know what they code
14:09 cait +1
14:09 davidnind I know it sometimes takes me a while to work out what a bug is supposed to do, so having some initial info to work with would be great!
14:10 davidnind +1 from me as well
14:10 davidnind #info DOC2 coding guideline: if anyone else has additional ideas or thoughts please add to the talk page https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]nes#Documentation
14:11 davidnind #topic Set time for next meeting
14:11 Topic for #koha is now Set time for next meeting (Meeting topic: Documentation IRC meeting 1 August 2019)
14:11 davidnind Jumping right to the end!
14:12 davidnind 6 September 2019 13:00 UTC for the next meeting?
14:12 davidnind Does anyone know whether earlier or later would work for Kelly?
14:12 davidnind We can change if needed
14:13 caroline_catlady sept 6 is a friday (here), is that what you were aiming for?
14:13 caroline_catlady I don't mind I'm here all week
14:13 davidnind oops - that should have been the 5th!
14:13 caroline_catlady ok! :)
14:14 davidnind time zones!
14:14 davidnind #info Next meeting 5 September 2019 13:00 UTC
14:14 AndyBoze Sept 5 works for me.
14:14 caroline_catlady works for me too
14:14 davidnind Thanks AndyBoze!
14:15 davidnind Will check with Kelly and adjust if needed
14:15 cait btw - great picture on twitter for  the meeting advertisement :)
14:16 * caroline_catlady is so bad with twitter
14:17 caroline_catlady ooh yeah it's nice :)
14:18 davidnind Credit to Lisette for that! She came up with the updated banner and a picture for meetings during the Koha Community Day.
14:18 davidnind #endmeeting
14:18 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software
14:18 huginn` Meeting ended Thu Aug  1 14:18:26 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
14:18 huginn` Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-08-01-13.02.html
14:18 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]9-08-01-13.02.txt
14:18 huginn` Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]01-13.02.log.html
14:18 davidnind Thanks everyone!
14:18 davidnind keep on documenting!
14:19 AndyBoze left #koha
14:19 caroline_catlady Got a little bit of the git guide done while y'all were dicussing the technicalities of the wiki https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]tion#Key_concepts
14:20 caroline_catlady still very much a wip
14:20 davidnind nice!
14:22 davidnind Quite like this cheat sheet as a starting point (will see if I can find a licence to see if we can reuse or adapt)[…]t-cheat-sheet.pdf
14:23 davidnind the diagrams on teh second page were giving me some ideas
14:23 caroline_catlady I like it
14:24 caroline_catlady If we can't reuse it, at least we can put a link in the "other resources" section
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14:39 mtompset Greetings, #koha
14:39 mtompset @seen tcohen
14:39 huginn` mtompset: tcohen was last seen in #koha 1 hour, 27 minutes, and 2 seconds ago: <tcohen> morning
14:40 mtompset tcohen, I'm testing my vagrant resizer under Ubuntu host now. I was developing under Windows to make sure it would work there.
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14:59 mtompset shoot... readonly?!
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15:11 tcohen hi mtompset
15:12 oleonard kidclamp, you're on a patching tear
15:12 kidclamp after two releases I feel like all the bugs are my fault
15:13 kidclamp gotta fix them all - the most boring pokemon series
15:13 mtompset tcohen, just need to solve this readonly issue, and I'm good. :)
15:13 oleonard kidclamp: Boring to watch, maybe, but I like being in it.
15:13 mtompset kidclamp, at least you are enslaving innocent pokemon to make them fight each other. ;)
15:14 mtompset Oops... AREN'T
15:14 kidclamp no no, ash has lots of friends that are pokemon
15:14 mtompset But he keeps them in pokeballs instead of free.
15:14 mtompset Pikachu is the only non-slave, really.
15:17 kidclamp it is a troubling concept
15:17 kidclamp oh you're 12? time to get out of my house and go it on your own
15:17 oleonard They're like the beast in Restaurant at the End of the Universe which was bred to want to be eaten
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15:18 caroline_catlady would make for a nice thesis "Representation of slavery in Pokémon"
15:18 kidclamp pokeball technology is pretty awesome. They're bigger on the inside? Or pokemon are all drug fueled figments of imagination?
15:19 oleonard All of this is probably well-covered territory on multiple Tumblrs
15:19 mtompset oleonard, yes, is that even ethical? There is no way it would ask to NOT be eaten, because of the environment it was raised and bred in.
15:20 mtompset oleonard, probably.
15:20 oleonard If we have a genetic predisposition to NOT want to be eaten, is that unethical?
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15:23 mtompset oleonard, this starts sliding towards Paul's argumentation in Romans 9, if you bring in theology. But let's not... I'd rather get my vagrant resizer working for debian boxes properly. :)
15:23 oleonard Maybe pokeball technology will help
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15:36 oleonard Hi wizzyrea
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15:53 oleonard kidclamp still around?
15:53 * kidclamp spins
15:53 oleonard I've been thinking about alternative solutions to Bug 23388
15:53 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=23388 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nick, Signed Off , Make system preferences links
15:53 oleonard[…]?p=15646746956636
15:55 kidclamp ooh, secret secret
15:55 kidclamp I like it
15:56 kidclamp can you click it to go there too?
15:56 oleonard I think we should separate those two aspects: The navigation and the getting of the link
15:57 oleonard So I would propose a separate solution for the navigation aspect... tbd
15:57 lukeG does the icon disappear if the user isnt hovering?
15:58 oleonard That's the way I did it lukeG, but it doesn't have to. I think it looks cluttered otherwise
15:58 kidclamp The only advantage to the clicking is that it deopsits you in the tab/category so you end up near related prefs, so like you search for one and then get to the area containing, but I like this
15:58 kidclamp oleonard++
15:59 oleonard I'm also guessing the audience of this feature is fairly small
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15:59 oleonard kidclamp: Yes, I'd like to come up with another way of linking the user to the related section
15:59 oleonard A more explicitly labeled link
16:00 oleonard In particular because the link-to-section behavior is really only relevant during search
16:00 kidclamp true
16:00 oleonard Sorry kidclamp you got my brain stewing on that one so here I am.
16:02 kidclamp hehe, sorry if I burned your productivity
16:02 oleonard Ain't I being productive? :D
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17:06 mtompset oleonard, no? :P
17:06 oleonard Nice
17:10 mtompset Yes you are, and that burn wasn't. Sorry. :)
17:18 oleonard kidclamp: This toolbar/scrolling problem is 100x harder when dealing with table cells :(
17:18 oleonard No wonder you were so angry with floating toolbars
17:27 * mtompset jokes, "Let's go back to HTML 2.0!"
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17:53 * mtompset grumbles that "df -h" doesn't include the size of the superblock.
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21:44 mtompset Wow, oleonard was so busy with that problem he didn't say bye. :(
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