IRC log for #koha, 2019-07-10

All times shown according to UTC.

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06:36 reiveune hello
06:36 wahanui what's up, reiveune
06:45 calire morning
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07:30 cait good morning #koha
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08:24 ashimema mornin'
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13:58 ashimema next meeting?
13:58 wahanui next meeting is https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]Next_IRC_meetings
14:01 thd joined #koha
14:01 ashimema #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019
14:01 huginn` Meeting started Wed Jul 10 14:01:38 2019 UTC.  The chair is ashimema. Information about MeetBot at
14:01 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:01 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
14:01 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_10_july_2019'
14:01 ashimema #chair cait
14:01 huginn` Current chairs: ashimema cait
14:01 ashimema #topic Introductions
14:01 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
14:02 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
14:02 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe
14:03 fridolin #info Fridolin Somers, Biblibre France
14:03 ashimema #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ting_10_July_2019 Agenda
14:04 ashimema I'm sure cait was here a minute ago
14:05 cait oh yes
14:05 ashimema coudl be a short one if that's all we've got
14:05 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
14:06 * cait pings random people
14:06 cait rmaints?
14:06 wahanui rmaints is fridolin, lucas and wizzyrea
14:06 fridolin all is good
14:06 cait khall bag tcohen
14:06 fridolin sorry I'm a bit late on backport
14:06 cait Joubu
14:06 ashimema #topic Announcements
14:06 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
14:07 cait nothing fromme
14:07 fridolin I made a new plugin[…]heme-intranet-lsd
14:07 ashimema #info The first set of maintanence releases have gone out since the last meeting.. Thanks to the RMaints :)
14:07 * tcohen is heading downtown, sorry
14:08 calire left #koha
14:08 ashimema lol
14:08 ashimema moving on then
14:08 ashimema #topic Update from the Release manager
14:08 Topic for #koha is now Update from the Release manager (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
14:09 ashimema Things are ticking along... I'm currently blocked by failing tests on Jenkins but have tcohen on the case (as I've reached a dead end with my own efforts)
14:09 ashimema teamwork++
14:10 ashimema that's pretty much it from me..
14:10 ashimema #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers
14:10 Topic for #koha is now Updates from the Release Maintainers (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
14:11 ashimema rmaints?
14:11 wahanui rmaints is, like, fridolin, lucas and wizzyrea
14:11 * ashimema grr, forgot to info my update
14:11 cait heh
14:11 wizzyrea #info liz rea
14:12 wizzyrea things are going along from my point of view
14:12 ashimema any updates fridolin
14:12 ashimema or wizzyrea
14:12 wahanui i heard wizzyrea was very glad the git repo is reliably working todya
14:13 fridolin nothing special in 19.05.x
14:13 wizzyrea nothing special in 18.05.x
14:13 fridolin sorry i'm a bit late on pushing
14:13 ashimema no worries :)
14:13 ashimema ok.. moving onto QA then
14:13 cait #info maintenance releases are moving along nicely
14:13 ashimema #topic Updates from the QA team
14:13 Topic for #koha is now Updates from the QA team (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
14:13 cait we are a bit low on QA time right now is my general feeling
14:14 cait #info Number of bad bugs on the dashboard are too high - 3 blockers, 4 criticals, 22 majors
14:14 wizzyrea ohh that's gross
14:14 * wizzyrea makes a note
14:14 cait #info Please focus on bugs for now if time is low - we need to make sure they are taken care of
14:15 cait it's not only QA there, missing patches, SO.... a mix
14:15 cait so really everyone can help there  ;)
14:15 * ashimema would be interested to see a graph of QA activity over a few cycles.. it would be interesting to see if there's a patturn to the ebbs adn flows
14:15 wizzyrea :D
14:15 cait I think it feels like the European summer 'hole' right now
14:15 cait probably a German term
14:15 wizzyrea yeah it's holiday time
14:16 cait things just slow down a lot - but it's a little unnerving for those who are still here :)
14:16 ashimema admitedly only three of those are in the QA queue right now..
14:16 cait I've also inlcuded some new contributors in my weekly QA email, there are quite a few in NSO
14:16 cait please be nice
14:16 cait #info Be nice to people starting out - new contributors :)
14:16 ashimema there's a few in NSO and more in need of some code submitting
14:17 cait ashimema: that's correct - it's really an all-community-task
14:17 cait wizzyrea: i'd be happy if you could start with this one - bug 23293
14:17 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=23293 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , OPACFineNoRenewals compares against 'balance' not 'outstanding'
14:17 cait argh
14:17 cait bug 23283
14:17 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=23283 critical, P5 - low, ---, lucas, Needs Signoff , cannot view/edit additional attributes in 18.11.x
14:18 ashimema I'll try to take on one or two of the 'Major' ones still without code
14:18 wizzyrea ah right
14:18 wizzyrea which solution there do we like better
14:18 wizzyrea the 2nd?
14:18 wahanui the 2nd is the staff interface
14:19 cait i think it's only one patch now
14:19 cait it seems to include the change mark made - but please double check
14:20 wizzyrea oh right
14:20 wizzyrea yep ok
14:20 cait nothing more from me
14:20 cait hit me up if you have a spare moment and need inspiration :)
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14:21 ashimema okies, moving on then
14:21 ashimema #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...)
14:21 Topic for #koha is now General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...) (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
14:21 ashimema we have a few to go through
14:21 ashimema do we have alex_a around?
14:22 corilynn I haven't seen him since last week, ashimema
14:22 wizzyrea holidayyyyys
14:22 ashimema #topic Mana-KB Workflows
14:22 Topic for #koha is now Mana-KB Workflows (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
14:22 ashimema #info Looking for some guidance on how to progress ManaKB serverside bugs
14:22 ashimema perhaps best to postpone that one again then..
14:23 fridolin alex is on holidays
14:23 fridolin for 3 weeks
14:23 ashimema it's unclear how we want to manage that project as a community yet.. there's no clear path through SO/QA and Push
14:23 ashimema but there is a record of issues in Bugzilla.. so we need to define how we want to operate there.
14:23 ashimema anywho.. lets move on whilst the relevant parties aren't here
14:24 cait can we add a note?
14:24 cait https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]te_Administration is missing infromation for Hea and Mana
14:24 ashimema #info Postponed discussion as the key parties are not in attendance
14:24 cait I'd really like to have some information on the provider and who to talk
14:25 cait #info Note for later: Update/complate https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]te_Administration for Mana and Hea
14:25 cait complete...
14:25 ashimema thanks
14:25 ashimema #topic Road to Mojolicious
14:25 Topic for #koha is now Road to Mojolicious (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
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14:26 ashimema #info I'll be starting to look at bug 23161 in the next couple of weeks with a view to persuing pushing it early next month
14:26 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=23161 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , We need to document the release process for this project?
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14:26 ashimema #info Correction, that was meant to be bug 20582
14:26 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=20582 enhancement, P5 - low, Future, julian.maurice, Signed Off , Turn Koha into a Mojolicious application
14:27 cait not only me today :)
14:27 ashimema I think there's a general concensus that it's worth investigating.. I want to get a few more key parties involved and get their opinions, excitment and fears
14:28 ashimema unless anyone has anything else they specifically want to say on that one, it was more of an anouncement than a discussion.. please get involved :)
14:28 ashimema moving on
14:29 ashimema #topic Git maintanence
14:29 Topic for #koha is now Git maintanence (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
14:29 ashimema ack, no Joubu.. he was meant to be leading the charge on this one.
14:29 ashimema #info The gitlab mirror is currently failing to mirror correctly as our main repository is so large.
14:29 cait oh
14:29 ashimema #info This really just highlights that the repository is still growing at an alarming rate and as such many of our tools are starting to struggle.
14:30 ashimema rangi has already proposed we move the translations into their own repository
14:30 thd It may also highlight potential problems with Gitlab overhead.
14:30 ashimema and we have other suggestions
14:31 ashimema #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ing_and_Shrinking Git maintanence proposals
14:32 cait we just need to make sure we have a clear workflow
14:32 ashimema I would say we do need to reduce our core repo's footprint at some point.. we've been discussing it for years for all sorts of reasons... I think it's time we took some decisive action
14:32 cait for how to ship translations
14:32 ashimema indeed cait
14:32 thd Moving translations and anything non-destructive to potentially important code history should be preferred.
14:32 cait woudl splitting out mean we don't include them anymore in packages etc?
14:32 ashimema but also need a consensus on how far we go with the cleanup..
14:33 fridolin we should build anguage packages like firefox does
14:33 ashimema we have a few options outlined on that page.. please take a look and contribute to the discussions.
14:33 cait i am just worried because we are so log on people now - we can't leave this half-finished
14:33 cait i think the history on the po files is not relevant
14:33 cait as it's all automated and not 'personal'
14:34 ashimema right now cait, I believe the idea is to use git submodules (so the build process would remain as is but the maints would need to pull the submodule repo rather than merge the latest translations commit)
14:34 cait hm maybe some from pre-pootle days... but most shoudl be just the translation server as author
14:34 cait ashimema: how woudl the update happen on the submodule repo?
14:34 ashimema the issue with loosing history isn't the history of those files themselves but the way git records it..
14:35 ashimema removing those files historically (which would lead to the biggest improvement in repo size) would change the commit hashes for the whole history (every commit)..
14:35 ashimema which could cause headaches
14:35 cait oh
14:35 cait so all links in bugzilla etc... broken?
14:36 ashimema pretty much as it does now cait.. the translations are already basically maintained in their own repo on github.. the rmaints (and rm) just pull in one commit each release from it.
14:36 cait not such a big fan fo that idea
14:36 fridolin my disk space is fan of it ;)
14:36 ashimema kohadevbox and koha-testing-docker would be fans of it ;)
14:37 fridolin and jenkins
14:37 cait so that would be... option 3?
14:37 thd Which options break links?
14:38 ashimema there's lots of good positives here.. it's whether they outweight the negatives
14:38 corilynn i don't think i understand the negatives
14:38 cait i am not sure about losing history = does it mean, it's gone (like freshly initiated) or just: changed hashes
14:38 cait and it's all still there but reorganized
14:38 thd Does option 3 "Keep-loose history" break links?
14:39 ashimema I should clean up that page.. it doesn't make it desperately clear
14:39 ashimema what links are we talking about cait?
14:39 ashimema an example would be good
14:39 cait linking to a commit on git
14:40 cait some bug trackers allow you do that nicely... i think we don't have tons of those in bugzilla, only some
14:40 cait usually something liek: i tracked it back to commit... breaking things
14:40 ashimema personally.. I like the idea of drawing a line and having a koha-legacy repo where all the links would just continue to work
14:41 ashimema as nothing would change.. it just stops moving
14:41 ashimema then doing the splitting and cleaning as a fresh set of repos
14:41 ashimema all new development goes onto the new repo's
14:42 ashimema the issue is more about how all devs would need to switch to tracking the new repository
14:42 cait (16:38:44) cait: i am not sure about losing history = does it mean, it's gone (like freshly initiated) or just: changed hashes
14:42 cait (16:38:52) cait: and it's all still there but reorganized
14:42 cait still a bit stuck on that question
14:42 thd Yes, if creating legacy preserves all history and does not break past links.
14:42 ashimema and.. their existing branches and patches would need updateing to apply to the new repos'
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14:42 ashimema what you'd see allot of in the beggining would be that horrible `sha1 does not apply` pach issue on existing bugs and patches.
14:43 cait i've never learned how to resolve these
14:43 cait so it's a little scary
14:43 ashimema it's that applying bugzilla patches stuff that would be painful for a few months I think
14:43 thd The problem to not break links would also be about naming such that if the old would be renamed koha-legacy that itself would break links.
14:44 cait if we moved to gitlab or similar it woudl also get broken... links would be nice... but more concerned about the not applying now
14:44 ashimema indeed thd.. though we could symlink 'koha' to 'koha-legacy' at the main koha git repo server end I believe..
14:44 cait how do you handle patches that don't apply developer side? with the sha1?
14:44 ashimema and move forward with 'koha-core' and 'koha-i18n' or whatever as the new
14:45 ashimema you can manually apply them cait.. though it doesn't always work nicely
14:45 cait what means manually apply?
14:46 ashimema what you can often do is 'patch -p1 < failed_patch.patch'
14:46 cait hm if we do that change... I thnk we need to have that written up
14:47 ashimema I can write something up to help with that pain.. but it certainly would cause pain to start with
14:47 cait and also have people helping others with rebasing
14:47 ashimema indeed
14:48 ashimema Joubu is keen to move forward and I'm keen to 'do it right'
14:48 cait I am not against doing it, but let's not rush
14:48 cait amybe we can make the page a bit clearer on suspected side effects
14:49 cait and do  a feedback round on the mailing list? (koha-devel)
14:49 ashimema as in.. make sure the community are in agreement as to how and understand the repurcussions and benefits
14:49 ashimema indeed
14:49 ashimema I think I'll leave it as a standing topic whilst Joubu and I work on clarifying it all
14:49 ashimema yeah, that's also a good idea cait
14:49 ashimema shall we move onto the next topic for now?
14:50 ashimema #info Martin will send something to the dev mailing list regarding git maintanence proposals
14:50 thd Given that the vast majority of the problem comes from translation history I presume that preserving translations monolithically would be liable to recreate the same problem for translations at a later point if not immediately.
14:50 ashimema #info Martin will try to clarify the existing git splitting page
14:50 ashimema #info We will keep this as a standing topic on the agenda whilst it's still in progress
14:51 ashimema perhaps thd.. but it's a problem that will affect fewer people
14:52 ashimema the main effects at this point in time are issues with devbox and things struggling to cope with the size of the main repo..
14:52 thd If a koha-legacy is created would it not be better to then also have separate repositories for each translation to constrain history size?
14:52 ashimema in reality only the translation manager and rmaints/rm ever need to actually interact with the i18n repo at all
14:52 ashimema hense 'they can cope'
14:53 thd ...ahh
14:53 ashimema I don't believe it would win us much.. for the above reasons ;)
14:53 ashimema it's only really the main repo for the majority of devs that we're worried about..
14:54 ashimema example in point.. at the hackfests we often get a group of new devs all trying to clone our main repo at the same time..
14:54 ashimema because it's huge and they're all doing it we often swamp the bandwidth of the local internet and everyone grinds to a halt
14:54 thd one can always imagine features which could have a high growth trajectory.
14:55 ashimema a smaller repo would basically make that sort of problem go away
14:55 ashimema instead of 'git clone -> go and have lunch' it would be 'git clone -> grab a cup of tea'
14:55 ashimema hehe, indeed
14:55 ashimema so......
14:55 wahanui i think so is the koha ON the mac?
14:55 ashimema moving on.. thanks for all the input and please keep mulling it over if you have any thoughts
14:56 ashimema #topic Review of coding guidelines
14:56 Topic for #koha is now Review of coding guidelines (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
14:56 thd We would need to be mindful of potential features which might lead to the same problem and create separate repositories for them when the growth curve becomes evident.
14:56 ashimema #topc Using the Koha::Script base class
14:56 ashimema #topic Using the Koha::Script base class
14:56 Topic for #koha is now Using the Koha::Script base class (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
14:57 ashimema correct thd
14:57 ashimema So.. we introduced a base class for command line scripts with bug 22600, but neglected to add a guidline to ensure it's use going forward.
14:57 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=22600 blocker, P2, ---, martin.renvoize, RESOLVED FIXED, We should add an 'interface' field to accountlines
14:58 ashimema As it stands, that base class basically sets up a consistent environment for scripts to run, so we get consistent action_logs for example from all cronjobs and maintanence scripts
14:58 ashimema I propose to write such a guideline and take a vote on it next meeting (forgot to do a draft for this meeting)
14:59 cait +1
14:59 ashimema #info We introduced a base class for scripts in bug 22600 - We should add a guideline to facilitate it's maintanence.
14:59 ashimema :)
15:00 ashimema ok.. I'll write it up for next meeting.. apologies I'm bhind
15:00 ashimema next
15:00 * fridolin goes to train, see you
15:00 ashimema #topic Update to SQL12
15:00 Topic for #koha is now Update to SQL12 (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
15:00 ashimema this one was another Joubu + tcohen one
15:00 ashimema I'll try to explain though..
15:01 ashimema We currently use TINYINT(1) in the database for any form of boolean.. but TINYINT(1) may also be used for other things which makes it hard for QA scripts to tell if it's meant to be a boolean or not
15:01 ashimema and..
15:02 fridolin left #koha
15:03 ashimema qa people are missing cases where booleans are being introduced and not being appropraitely set in the DBIC classes (and as such the REST api is not converiting them to valid JSON::Booleans)
15:03 ashimema I 'think' the discussion here was meant to ask 'What next'
15:03 ashimema should we switch to something other than TINYINT(1) (BOOLEAN or BIT perhaps)
15:03 ashimema or set a 'warning' type failure in the QA scripts and get the QA persons to decide whether it's an actual fail or not?
15:04 ashimema thoughts?
15:04 * ashimema wishes tcohen and Joubu were here
15:04 ashimema met by silence.. another one to wait on the relevant parties I reckon
15:05 cait maybe
15:05 cait not quite the topic i know a lot about :)
15:05 ashimema #info Further discussion postponed pending knowledable parties.
15:05 ashimema #topic Revise JS guideline JS8 to recomment ESLint
15:05 Topic for #koha is now Revise JS guideline JS8 to recomment ESLint (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
15:05 thd I think that treating booleans as a numeric value has huge importance for future standards based support.
15:06 ashimema oleonard around?
15:06 ashimema this is his?
15:06 cait i think so
15:07 ashimema MS SQL is about the only DB system that gets 'BOOLEAN' right as per the original intention of the SQL spec apparently
15:07 ashimema thd ^
15:07 ashimema I 'think' BIT is the closest other DB's have got
15:08 ashimema OK, no oleonard and we've hit the 1 hour mark
15:08 ashimema lets move onto the last topic
15:08 thd Well, if that is really correct and widely applicable for other contexts of Boolean use as well then great.  ... moving
15:08 ashimema #info Posponed discussion as oleonard is absent
15:09 ashimema #topic Set time of next meeting
15:09 Topic for #koha is now Set time of next meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
15:09 ashimema coming into summer now so I think we're going to be operating on a skeliton crew for the next few meetings
15:12 thd Is 24 July a useful date?
15:12 reiveune bye
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15:12 cait winter in nz :)
15:12 cait should work
15:13 ashimema I think it'll be a short one.. but I do think it's good to have one in the diary every two weeks (we can always cancel the slot if there are no topics)
15:13 ashimema so.. that would make it 24th July I believe
15:13 cait agreed
15:13 ashimema and.. I'm trying to be good and line up so the NZ croud can attend.. so that puts it
15:14 ashimema 8pm BST
15:14 ashimema 19:00 UTC
15:14 ashimema so...
15:15 cait too early
15:15 ashimema 24 July 2019, 19:00:00 UTC - Does that suit?
15:15 thd 20 UTC is currently set for the general meeting but I think 19 UTC may be closer to what people favoured in the preferred times poll.
15:15 cait hm let me check quickly
15:16 cait i think 20 might work slightly better
15:16 ashimema 19UTC was what we did two weeks ago
15:16 cait because of daylight savings
15:16 cait 10 hours from here to nz
15:16 cait 20 utc should be 8 am
15:16 thd We have allowed meeting times to drift in the opposite direction of the survey times as summer time changes have come and gone.
15:16 ashimema any objections anyone else
15:17 cait more likely to catch people at work
15:17 thd I prefer 19 UTC so no objection from me.
15:17 ashimema sorry.. I meant objections to 20
15:18 thd I was trying to state that 19 UTC may be closer to what the time survey had indicated people favoured.
15:18 ashimema 20 is 9pm UK
15:19 ashimema nothing say it needs to be on the hour.. perhaps 19:30 in a vane atempt to keep more people happy
15:19 thd I like 19.30 ;)
15:19 cait keep people on their toes ;)
15:20 ashimema #info Next meeting: 24 July 2019, 19:30 UTC
15:20 ashimema done :)
15:20 thd People may need special notice to show up not too early and leave :)
15:20 ashimema thanks all
15:20 ashimema #endmeeting
15:20 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software
15:20 huginn` Meeting ended Wed Jul 10 15:20:18 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
15:20 huginn` Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-07-10-14.01.html
15:20 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]9-07-10-14.01.txt
15:20 huginn` Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]10-14.01.log.html
15:21 eythian ashimema: a suggestion: require a comment on the tinyint field that is "boolean" or "not boolean" and the tooling can use and enforce that.
15:21 ashimema ohh.. why didn't I tihnk of that!
15:21 ashimema great suggestion eythian
15:21 eythian yw :)
15:21 thd eythian++
15:24 * ashimema goes for :tea:
15:24 ashimema thanks everyone
15:25 thd ashimema: I have learnt not to trust any SQL type special storage of values.  Store the numbers or strings so that they come out the way they came in, however, with booleans maybe that is a legacy coding practise preference of mine.
15:25 eythian mysql has no boolean type, and traditionally tinyint(1) is used for that.
15:26 eythian actually
15:26 eythian that's not totally true
15:26 thd So I thought, what was the claim in the meeting though?
15:26 eythian it has a "boolean" type that is a synonym for "tinyint(1)"
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15:27 eythian The problem can be that Perl is pretty happily wishy-washy about what is what type, it'll make it look right.
15:27 eythian This is a problem when serialising for stricter formats.
15:27 eythian (I once crashed many, many phones by getting that wrong.)
15:29 thd Yes, Perl and other weakly typed languages framed my preferences for preferred data typing of booleans at least.
15:35 thd Documenting type strongly allows for data exchange between strongly and weakly typed languages, although, I could see a case for downconverting of data type strength.
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17:43 tcohen hi all
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18:36 mtompset joined #koha
18:36 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
18:36 mtompset @seen cait
18:36 huginn` mtompset: cait was last seen in #koha 3 hours, 17 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <cait> keep people on their toes ;)
18:37 mtompset Are you here, cait?
18:38 mtompset @later tell cait I noticed that there is a HOLD_SLIP in fr-CA that isn't in en. Should it be?
18:38 huginn` mtompset: The operation succeeded.
18:38 cait probably not
18:38 cait but wondering, i think we have a hold slip
18:39 mtompset bug 17469
18:39 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=17469 normal, P5 - low, ---, caitlingoodger.student, CLOSED FIXED, fr-CA web installer is missing some sample notices
18:39 cait[…]=grep&s=HOLD_SLIP
18:39 cait are you sure it's not in en?
18:40 mtompset let me recheck... maybe my grep was bad.
18:41 mtompset DOH! Underscore.
18:41 mtompset Let me fix my grep. :)
18:42 cait there is also a test, i think in xt
18:42 cait checking for notices
18:45 mtompset cait++ # there is an xt test.
18:46 cait maybe check if it covers the new installer
18:47 cait fr-CA
18:55 davidnind joined #koha
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19:53 Charles_Quain joined #koha
19:58 rangi joined #koha
20:00 cait meeting time?
20:01 Charles_Quain Hi there
20:01 cait hey Charles_Quain - how are you doing?
20:01 Charles_Quain Good thanks. How are things with you?
20:01 cait busy but improving
20:02 Charles_Quain busy is good - at least I try to convince myself of that!
20:02 cait ashimema: rangi?
20:02 wahanui rangi is a pretty big get
20:02 rangi hmm?
20:02 cait Charles_Quain: :)
20:02 rangi what did i do now?
20:02 cait wondering who is around for general meeting
20:03 cait nothing, just noticed you logging in
20:03 ashimema Late apologies, looking after ill family
20:03 rangi ah yep, i can do a kohacon20 update
20:03 ashimema Sorry guys
20:04 cait oh no
20:04 cait hope they will feel better soon
20:04 cait should I chair?
20:04 cait we can have a quick one
20:04 rangi yep
20:04 cait #startmeeting General IRC meeting 10 July 2019
20:04 huginn` Meeting started Wed Jul 10 20:04:27 2019 UTC.  The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at
20:04 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:04 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
20:04 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting_10_july_2019'
20:04 cait #topic Introductions
20:04 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
20:04 cait Please introduce yourself using #info
20:04 cait #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ting_10_July_2019 Today's agenda
20:04 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
20:05 rangi #info Chris Cormack, Catalyst IT, NZ
20:05 Charles_Quain #info Charles Quain, Interleaf Technology
20:05 * ashimema tries to listen in
20:05 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS-E
20:05 bag #info Brendan Gallagher, ByWater
20:05 ashimema thanks for stepping into the breach cait
20:05 rangi can we add kohacon20 to the agenda cait ?
20:05 cait no worries
20:05 cait yep
20:05 cait do you want to add it to wiki?
20:05 rangi just at the end is fine
20:05 rangi will do
20:05 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
20:05 cait thx
20:06 Charles_Quain And add what to do with the KohaCon19 surplus?
20:06 davidnind joined #koha
20:06 cait ok, so maybe a Kohacon19/20 then :)
20:06 cait moving on
20:06 cait ah, waiting for davidnind
20:06 cait last chance to #info everyone :)
20:07 davidnind #info David Nind, New Zealand
20:07 cait #topic Announcements
20:07 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
20:07 davidnind just...
20:07 cait Any announcements?
20:07 rangi Charles_Quain: i had an idea about that, we can come to it when we get to the kohacon topic ;)
20:07 bag Bring Guinness :)
20:07 rangi heh
20:07 cait nothing going on? :)
20:08 cait Koha US maybe?
20:08 rangi just a really busy year for all koha support companies it seems
20:08 cait has it ever been different? :)
20:08 rangi nope :)
20:08 cait #info Registration for koha-US conference is open[…]egistration-open/
20:08 ashimema Caroline was going to update us as to how the education meeting went wasn't she
20:08 bag There is a kohaus conference in September
20:08 davidnind #info Hackfest 2019 30 September to 4th October[…]-July/053277.html
20:08 bag cait++
20:09 ashimema oh.. she's also in the apologies
20:09 cait ah great, thx davidnind
20:09 bag hackfest is a great one to attend if you get a chance
20:09 cait true
20:09 rangi one day
20:09 cait moving on
20:09 cait #topic Update on releases
20:09 Topic for #koha is now Update on releases (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
20:09 cait i'll repeat from earlier today
20:09 wizzyrea joined #koha
20:10 cait #info Maintenance releases are moving along nicely
20:10 cait wizzyrea: want to add something?
20:10 cait ok, moving on :)
20:10 lukeG joined #koha
20:11 cait ah, rmaints dropping in
20:11 ashimema #info Moving into pushing small to medium sized enhancements on master now - out of bugfix only freeze period :)
20:11 cait cool :)
20:11 cait moving on now
20:12 cait #topic Wiki
20:12 Topic for #koha is now Wiki (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
20:12 wizzyrea #info Liz Rea
20:12 cait all eyes on agenda - reading quickly now :)
20:13 davidnind We discussed at the documentation meeting, but my memory has faded already...
20:14 cait In general I think we discussed updating to a recent version
20:14 cait I'd like us to think about even restarting
20:14 thd I added some contents to the wiki section of the agenda correcting for some mistaken notions.  I have not added something appropriate to the wiki update bug yet.
20:14 cait i don't quit eshare the thought that stuff should never be deleted
20:14 rangi yeah
20:14 cait I tihnk we might want to consider a restart
20:15 ashimema 1.16 dates back to 2011
20:15 thd The problem with MediaWiki deletion is that it does not leave a history.
20:15 jzairo joined #koha
20:15 davidnind bug 23073
20:15 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=23073 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmc, NEW , needs updating to a later version
20:15 Nemo_bis it doesn't? O_o
20:15 cait #info current wiki version is 1.16, dating back to 2011
20:15 Nemo_bis history is only deleted if the purge archive maintenance script is run
20:15 cait hi Nemo_bis, thx for chiming in
20:16 cait could you detail? so deleted pages could be recovered?
20:16 Nemo_bis aka[…]ivedRevisions.php
20:16 thd Ok, maybe I am mistaken.  I know the big issue about which people complained when it has happened on Wikipedia.
20:16 ashimema that was my understanding too Nemo_bis, but I thought I might be out of date.. thanks for varifying
20:16 Nemo_bis unless you delete directly from the database, yes
20:16 cait so what are peoples thoughts?
20:17 cait I think we can agree on 'needing a newer version'?
20:17 cait update or restart?
20:17 rangi i dont mind either way, whatever is quicker
20:17 ashimema my feeling is that a large percentage of the current wiki content is actually more misleading than helpful
20:17 rangi before we lose everything
20:17 cait rangi: lose everything?
20:17 thd I think that it would be easier to organise the existing content than start over.
20:18 thd The big issue is migrating the database.
20:18 rangi cait: when someone exploits a 8 year old bug/hole and trashes the server
20:18 ashimema could we start afresh but leave the old one running for a while in case we do decide we want to migrate any particular pages?
20:18 cait rangi: makes sense... although i hope we have backups somewhere
20:18 rangi ashimema: id agree with that
20:18 cait yeah, i was thinking something along these lines
20:18 cait hand-pick the good stuff
20:18 bag I think gmcharlt - y’all are hosting that right?  (I can’t remember)
20:18 bag I’m sure they have backups
20:18 cait equinox for the wiki, yep
20:19 gmcharlt yep
20:19 * cait jumps
20:19 bag yeah they definitely have backups
20:19 rangi backups are great as long as you notice it happening :)
20:19 bag heya galen
20:19 gmcharlt howdy
20:19 wahanui privet, gmcharlt
20:19 bag true
20:19 thd There may be backups but backups are only as good as the testing of those backups.
20:19 rangi otherwsie you back up the mess too :)
20:20 rangi but yeah i would agree with ashimema
20:20 cait gmcharlt: have you read back? we were discussion about updating the wiki
20:20 cait or... starting afresh on a new version
20:20 gmcharlt I'm amenable both to upgrading it and to starting fresh, preferably on something other than mediawiki
20:20 rangi gmcharlt++
20:20 cait do you have something in mind?
20:20 thd We could maintain the old content in an archived format which would not allow exploiting any MediaWiki bugs.
20:21 cait another software I mean
20:21 gmcharlt cait: dokuwiki, actually, for sake of simplicity, but I'm certainly open to other suggestions
20:21 ashimema We should be able to put the old one into read only (even if only at the db level) and still be able to get at the wiki markup of pages to grab the best bits manually as required.. I would imagine after a few months all the most helpful content would have been migrated
20:21 cait I still run my own dokuwiki... so I wouldn't mind
20:22 Nemo_bis upgrading from MediaWiki 1.16 is not very hard
20:22 cait but that's not radically different to what we have now :)
20:22 Nemo_bis I can help with it if needed
20:22 ashimema oh.. I'd not even considered using another wiki platform.. more than happy to be guided by others on that front
20:22 thd Direct updating without first migrating to MySQL will probably reach a deadend for some state of MediaWiki software and certainly prevent many proposed extensions etc. from working.
20:22 cait what is it running on now? postgres?
20:22 thd yes
20:23 thd It was an historical mistake when a test became the only wiki running.
20:23 ashimema what puts you off mediawiki gmcharlt ?
20:23 cait #info current Mediawiki is running on PostgreSQL
20:24 ashimema I've found the recent editors in mediawiki pretty straighforward
20:24 rangi its big, its heavy, its wood
20:24 gmcharlt and we ended up inadvertantly on a less-well-supported path with running on on Pg
20:24 Nemo_bis PostgreSQL is still officially supported, so any upgrade error would be a welcome bug report and is usually fixed (but yes, not necessarily fun)
20:25 gmcharlt I'm not strongly against it, but in (in comparison) have found dokuwiki sufficient for Evergreen's needs
20:25 thd The problem is not that Postgres is not supported at all.  It is less well supported than MySQL.
20:25 Nemo_bis thd: no doubt about that :)
20:25 cait #idea Change of wiki platform, for example to DokuWiki (no database needed, easier to maintain)
20:25 Nemo_bis A couple extensions here are not supported any more but I'm not sure they're in wide use https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]i/Special:Version
20:25 gmcharlt though of course, for both projects, there's certainly always the perpetual problem of wanting as much wiki librarian cycles as we can get to keep content fresh and organized
20:26 bag good point
20:26 cait wiki librarian cycles?
20:26 thd I found docuwiki to have huge problems where it had become unmanageable with unlinked content and lacking the level of features provided by MediaWiki.
20:26 gmcharlt and I /don't/ belive that mediawiki vs dokuwiki makes a great deal of difference as far as that's concerned
20:26 Nemo_bis dokuwiki's simplicity is often deceptive more than real (but I'm a biased MediaWiki person of course)
20:26 bag a curator?
20:27 thd However, MediaWiki was supposed to be a test.
20:27 bag any wiki is as good as the content and organization
20:27 cait I think we don't use a lot of the features right now
20:27 cait maybe the templating things
20:27 Nemo_bis A first step then would be to reduce the complexity of the installation
20:27 cait i am not aware that Dokuwiki has that
20:27 Nemo_bis Do you really need SemanticMediaWiki, for instance?
20:27 cait Nemo_bis: I'd say no
20:27 inlibro joined #koha
20:28 cait ok, next steps?
20:28 thd If we migrate to MySQL or start over with MediaWiki we could then add SemanticMediaWiKi which has much to support the work of keeping everything in good order.
20:28 rangi yeah i dont think lack of features has ever been an issue, more no one is cleaning dead/wrong content
20:28 ashimema I believe our use of semanticmediawiki is broken anyway
20:29 * ashimema agrees with rangi
20:29 gmcharlt yeah, tooling goes but so far w/o concentrated wikilibrarian/curator effort
20:29 thd We do not have any use of SemanticMediaWiki other than it may have been installed.
20:29 ashimema though.. on the few occasions I've tried to maintain I found our version of mediawiki challenging to organise
20:30 ashimema we really need somewhat of a plan for organising content from day one and a guide for new submissions
20:30 * ashimema curated a few wiki's over the years.. including openstreetmaps one
20:30 gmcharlt ashimema: so, a question for you: how many folks would you want with you in a committed curator corps?
20:30 thd Organisation is really about assigning tags and categories which mostly never happened when we were using Docuwiki.
20:31 cait ashimema is RM currently... so not sure we hsould lay more on him
20:31 ashimema As much as I love SemanticMediaWiki, I don't feel we need the added complexity it adds on day one
20:31 cait but i know the docs team was interested
20:31 cait davidnind: ?
20:31 ashimema haha
20:31 ashimema happy to help and guide.. but yeah.. i've low on tuits being RM and all ;)
20:31 cait actually this was brought over as a topic from docs meeting
20:31 bag gmcharlt and all - I think this is a good topic to bring up during that new “trainers” sub-group that is going
20:31 davidnind the discussion was around getting someone to do it, which is the bit that is missing at the moment
20:31 bag or what cait said
20:31 ashimema Nemo_bis sounds very knowledgable.. sounds like a good condidate?
20:32 thd MediaWiki makes it very easy to find lost content to tag and categorise it.  Docuwiki did not seem to have any way to identify such unlinked content.
20:32 Nemo_bis ah yes, MediaWiki is good for obsessive taggers :)
20:32 ashimema davidnind, do you have any sort of proposals/notions of what content belongs where?
20:33 ashimema what exactly do we want a wiki for (bearing in mind the efforts going into the manual etc)
20:33 cait ok, I think maybe we need to break here with osme #actions for next meeting?
20:33 thd In Docuwiki most of our content could only be found by searching in the dark with respect to the actual content.
20:33 cait #agreed current wiki software is way out of date and we need to remedy that
20:33 davidnind not really, but I think we need a plan - whihc I'm happy to help with/lead
20:33 ashimema good plan cait
20:34 * ashimema is enjoying the distraction from playing nurse
20:34 cait gmcharlt: as you are currently running Mediawiki - what woudl we need to do?
20:34 ashimema first action right there cait.. david has offered to help create a plan :)
20:34 cait davidnind: you ok to be named 'lead of wiki update'?
20:34 gmcharlt ashimema: since I think we have a consensus (?) about starting fressh
20:35 davidnind cait: yep, ties in with documentation well
20:35 cait we should also decide on naming releases after muppets today *hides*
20:35 gmcharlt first task I think would be carving out hosting some where with a fresh mediawiki/dokuwiki/out-come-​of-rock-paper-scissors-wiki install
20:35 davidnind cait++
20:35 cait #action davidnind named as 'lead of wiki update' - will try and help get a plan down
20:35 gmcharlt (and potentially see if there's other stuff that trainers/docs would want?)
20:36 cait gmcharlt: would Equinox be willing to continue hosting?
20:36 ashimema gmcharlt: Agree entirely
20:36 gmcharlt cait: yep, we'd will willing to set up another VM and host $newwiki
20:36 cait #info Equinox willing to continue hosting the wiki
20:37 cait #info Consensus on starting fresh with a plan to keep things organized
20:37 cait #info Wiki software to be discussed (continue with new Mediawiki, use Dokuwiki, use $wiki)
20:37 thd We might do what was suddenly not done when the old wiki went down which was to test different possibilities and choose what seems to work best with actual testing.
20:37 cait #action add Wiki and requirements/wish list for future to next educator's meeting
20:38 cait maybe if we have a wiki page set up we could collect some ideas
20:38 cait ok, so far so good?
20:38 cait i'd move on then
20:38 davidnind great
20:39 cait #topic Update/obsolete installation guides on wiki
20:39 Topic for #koha is now Update/obsolete installation guides on wiki (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
20:39 cait davidnind: could you?
20:39 davidnind my brain is mush today
20:39 ashimema thanks all for that.. very productive
20:39 thd #MESSAGE gmcharlt gmcharlt: I would like to update my ssh access to preserve some things which may otherwise be lost to history.
20:40 davidnind the idea I think was to have a 'proper' installation guide
20:40 davidnind either on the wiki or separately as part of the manual
20:40 cait we have a lot of htem right now, but I think we only link a few in release notes
20:40 davidnind there are so many guides available when you goodle it
20:40 ashimema I'd vote for in the manual
20:40 davidnind google it
20:41 cait it often leads to issues when people follow hte ones outside of the wiki... but the wiki ones can be tricky too
20:41 davidnind wherever it is we need to keep current (as most things documentation)
20:41 cait #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ion_Documentation Release notes link to this page for installation guides
20:42 ashimema one install guide for the majority and in the manual and other guides should be categorized into development install types
20:42 davidnind I'm working through the main ones at the moment on the wiki (Debian + Ubuntu packages)
20:42 thd The manual should be primary but there should always be room for details, comments, etc. in the wiki which could not fit in a clear manual.
20:42 ashimema in reality it feels like we've reached a maturity level in the project where there is really only one 'recommended' install type
20:42 ashimema the others are all developer oriented
20:43 davidnind thd: good idea - there are always lost of nuances
20:43 rangi ashimema: yes
20:43 davidnind so is everyone okay with this approach, and we work out the details of the best way to do this
20:43 cait we are talking packages right?
20:43 rangi davidnind: i am
20:44 ashimema me too
20:44 gmcharlt speaking of isntallation, I think we must come up with a better use for old Apollo guidance computers than mining bitcoin
20:44 cait #info Package installation is the recommended installation method
20:44 gmcharlt obvious, I hope folks get inspired to work on a Koha port ;)
20:44 davidnind my tape machine no longer works...
20:45 cait so suggestions?
20:45 caroline_catlady joined #koha
20:45 cait hi caroline_catlady :)
20:46 caroline_catlady hi! did I miss the meeting?
20:46 davidnind either a separate official guide or part of the manual, with a place somewhere (wiki?) for notes and variations
20:46 cait we tasked you with everything noone else wanted to do ;)
20:46 caroline_catlady hehe!
20:46 cait ok, so one official installation gude focused on packages?
20:46 davidnind :)
20:46 davidnind ++
20:46 cait #idea have one official installation guide for a package installation, variations for devs in the wiki
20:47 davidnind success will be the official guide is the first google/bing/duckduck go result :)
20:47 cait #info remember to change links in the release note scripts once in place
20:47 cait is someone willing to clean up the package install gude for the manual?
20:48 davidnind I'm working through that with a local vm
20:48 cait feeling slightly bad about tasking you again, but I will
20:48 rangi cool davidnind
20:48 davidnind will probably pester dev list with questions I have that don't make sense to me
20:48 Nemo_bis (Meanwhile, Debian packages are the best way to install MediaWiki as well, if you are on Debian.[…]:Legoktm/Packages )
20:48 cait #action davidnind working through installation guide currently for updating
20:49 cait ok, moving on to last topic for tonight?
20:49 cait davidnind++ too
20:49 cait #topic Koha Community Project Day
20:49 Topic for #koha is now Koha Community Project Day (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
20:49 cait this was a last minute addition form me
20:50 cait was thining about how to wake things up a bit
20:50 cait we are all crazy busy so it's hard to make progress on stuff
20:50 cait maybe if set a date and people put down possible projects/tasks... things they want to work on
20:50 caroline_catlady like a virtual hackfest?
20:50 cait yeah a bit
20:50 davidnind was wanting to do a doc sprint at some stage (outstanding action point for me), maybe over a week
20:50 cait not only focused on bugs
20:51 cait clean up wiki pages... check website content... could be anything
20:51 cait write a new plugin
20:51 bag check_website_content++
20:51 ashimema cait++
20:51 cait would that be something people would like to participate in?
20:51 Charles_Quain sounds like a great idea
20:52 davidnind maybe a theme for each month and a 24 hour day, or a day a month with people working on whatever strikes their fancy?
20:52 rangi yep
20:52 alexbuckley joined #koha
20:52 rangi like the bug squash magnuse used to run
20:52 cait yep, just a bit broader
20:52 cait not only bug squashing
20:52 lukeG sounds awesome
20:53 ashimema I wish we had more ways/better ways to reward and therefore incentivise people to do more
20:53 cait it's true
20:53 cait so... maybe starting with a doodle to find a date?
20:53 cait and people interested?
20:53 cait i could try to set that up this or beginning of next week
20:53 ashimema probably at a company level.. I see alot of individuals really committed but it's often also a battle for those people to justify working on the less obviously rewarding to companies work
20:54 * caroline_catlady thinks saving kittens is a pretty good incentive
20:54 cait i feel we also got a lot of other thing sstuck
20:54 ashimema for short run things I agree caroline
20:54 cait so testing out wikis and thinking about structure could also be a project
20:54 rangi i think the thing is to pick a date a little way out, and just say thats it
20:54 cait ok, i coudl do that
20:54 rangi then companies/people can organise to be free that day
20:54 ashimema and those short bursts certainly get things moving.. so I'm totally game for them
20:54 davidnind agree
20:54 cait among people here... any preferneces for hte day of week?
20:54 rangi eaiser than trying to find a day that works
20:55 Charles_Quain I dont like Wedensdays
20:55 cait noted
20:55 ashimema InLibro already have community fridays don't they?
20:55 ashimema and we loosly have fridays as a more flexible day
20:56 cait friday means a bit late for kiwis... unelss they make it their thursday
20:56 davidnind apologies have to go to 'important' work meeting, have my support for doing this
20:56 cait thx davidnind!
20:56 rangi thanks davidnind
20:56 caroline_catlady for sure fridays are best for us, since it's already our community work day
20:56 cait we could do a 'friday' whereever
20:56 rangi do a friday in your timezone
20:57 cait ok
20:57 cait so like the gbsd
20:57 rangi yep
20:57 rangi then we get almost 48 hours of work :)
20:57 cait august 9 too late?
20:57 ashimema yup
20:57 cait july 26
20:58 cait well.. might be a different date for osme... need to figure that out
20:58 cait we got 2 more minutes meeting time, I will start to look for next date and time while you ponder
20:58 ashimema I like July 26th
20:58 ashimema but I'm game for either realy
20:59 cait August 14
20:59 cait 13 UTC?
20:59 cait I'll aim for july 26th preparing something this weekend
21:00 rangi sounds good
21:00 cait at least writing a draft for the mailing list mail :)
21:00 ashimema +1
21:00 cait ok, ending soon
21:00 rangi if there is a community 'official' event it's easier for us to get our bosses to let us work on it :)
21:01 cait I'll try to make it look most official then :)
21:01 cait #topic Next meeting
21:01 Topic for #koha is now Next meeting (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
21:01 cait wah kohacon
21:01 cait #topic Update on KohaCon
21:01 Topic for #koha is now Update on KohaCon (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
21:01 cait sorry
21:01 cait rangi?
21:01 wahanui rangi is a pretty big get
21:01 thd :)
21:01 bag kohacon++
21:01 cait i forgot to refresh the wiki page.. sorr
21:02 cait Charles_Quain: still awake too?
21:02 rangi right, so the site is in softlaunch,  it will be launch launched in a week or 2
21:02 Charles_Quain Yep
21:02 bag cait - it’s only 1400
21:02 bag ;)
21:02 rangi we have a venue booked, the national library of NZ
21:02 cait #info KohaCon website will be officially launched in a week or 2
21:03 rangi shortly we will be asking for volunteers to be part of the programme committee
21:03 cait #info venue is the National Library of NZ
21:03 Charles_Quain We have the (strangely precise) amount of €2386 left over from KohaCon19. Looking for ideas on how to use it to best advantage
21:03 rangi we are going to do the 3+1+1+2 format this time
21:03 paul_p joined #koha
21:03 cait #info Asking volunteers on the programme committee soon
21:03 rangi 3 days talks, 1 day culture, 1 day workshops, 2 days working together
21:03 ashimema 3,1,1,2?
21:04 ashimema ta
21:04 rangi trying to get the best of both worlds the workshops from kohacon19 and the hackfest from kohacon18 :)
21:05 cait what's first, workshop day or excursion?
21:05 Charles_Quain so tricky to get the balance right
21:05 ashimema +1
21:05 rangi excursion
21:05 bag Charles_Quain: sponsorship for attending KohaCon20?
21:05 rangi we are trying to be tricky
21:05 rangi bag: thats exactly what i was going to suggest
21:05 cait #info format will be 3 + 1 + 1  + 2 = conference + excursion + workshops + hackfest
21:06 Charles_Quain Would it be enough?
21:06 rangi Charles_Quain: it could be part
21:06 bag like the program committe accepts scholar accplications
21:06 ashimema I reckon you have an advantage geographically for such a layout.. it's not as tempting to 'just head home early'
21:06 bag sorry for spelling :(
21:06 rangi i think it would be good to use to see if can get some irish librarians to come, at least to help
21:06 bag great idea
21:07 Charles_Quain I'm completely open as to what to do with it.
21:07 rangi ashimema: yep, and by putting the workshop after excursion easier to get ppl to not miss it too :)
21:07 ashimema indeed
21:08 rangi Charles_Quain: 500 euro would cover a weeks accomodation in wellington comfortably
21:08 Charles_Quain How would we select a delegate?
21:08 ashimema I like the idea of conference money going to conference stuff.. so that ticks my boxes :)
21:08 rangi if it was a supplement, it would be for someone who is already committed to go?
21:09 rangi i havent fully thought this through :)
21:09 bag we could decide on that later - maybe get the committee together and they can figure that out?
21:09 rangi but I was going to make it your problem to award the supplements Charles_Quain heheh
21:09 rangi or at least the kohacon19 team
21:09 rangi since you raised it :)
21:09 Charles_Quain It does make sense to use cash from one year to support the next
21:10 ashimema something Todd may be helpful with bag?
21:10 ashimema has he any experience in such things
21:10 bag Todd would definitely be on that
21:10 kathryn Hello, I have to confess, I've been lurking and can't stay quiet any longer :D
21:10 Charles_Quain I'd have to recuse myself from the selection process - I know them all too well!
21:10 bag some experince - but he’d do the research to make it fair
21:10 cait kathryn: finally!
21:11 kathryn I was thinking awards could have priority for speakers and Koha contributors
21:11 kathryn hehe
21:11 Charles_Quain That sounds fair
21:12 * ashimema would go along with 'the needy who are willing/wanting to contribute'
21:12 kathryn yes that too
21:13 cait maybe people can think this over and we come back to that next time with more ideas?
21:13 rangi yup
21:13 rangi another idea, that isnt fully formed too
21:13 kathryn yup!
21:13 ashimema +1
21:13 cait #info Discussion on how to use the money raised at KohaCon19 to be continued
21:13 ashimema meanwhile I'm sure that money is in a safe account ;)
21:14 rangi we are planning to try to get sponsorship from outside the koha support company world
21:14 Charles_Quain "Resting in my account" is the phrase
21:14 rangi we'd much rather you all use that money to come/send people
21:14 cait :)
21:14 kathryn your presence, not presents ;)
21:15 rangi exactly
21:15 bag but I’d still love some Guinness
21:15 ashimema :)
21:15 cait feel free to #info any of that :)
21:15 rangi if you send a person, you get a logo :)
21:15 rangi so can still have a nice list of logos on the sponsorship page :)
21:15 cait rangi: can I info that?
21:15 kathryn that's a cool idea rangi
21:16 cait or #idea it
21:16 rangi cait: sure why not :)
21:16 cait #idea If you send a person, you get a logo (your presence not presents)
21:16 cait anything else?
21:16 rangi thats it from me
21:16 rangi anything from you kathryn ?
21:17 kathryn probably save it for a first conference meeting
21:17 kathryn I have a lot of ideas and reckons
21:18 kathryn in short, no thanks!
21:18 cait :)
21:18 bag we are only 15 months away ;)
21:18 cait #topic Next meeting
21:18 Topic for #koha is now Next meeting (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 10 July 2019)
21:18 cait short chance for veto: August 14th (second Wednesday) 13 UTC
21:19 cait #info Next meeting: 14 August 2019, 13 UTC
21:19 cait #endmeeting
21:19 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software
21:19 huginn` Meeting ended Wed Jul 10 21:19:35 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
21:19 huginn` Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-07-10-20.04.html
21:19 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]9-07-10-20.04.txt
21:19 huginn` Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]10-20.04.log.html
21:19 cait thx all!
21:19 caroline_catlady cait++
21:20 kathryn thanks cait and for accepting my late arrival!
21:20 Charles_Quain night all.
21:20 cait kathryn: you know you don't have to hold back, right? you can always talk here :)
21:20 ashimema cait++
21:20 ashimema thanks
21:20 kathryn yeah I wasn't sure about crashing the meeting after #info !
21:21 ashimema always say hi ;)
21:21 cait we don't mind
21:21 kathryn thanks :)
21:23 kathryn nearly time for a less-interesting meeting - seeyas!
21:23 cait caroline_catlady: noticed something odd today:
21:24 cait says 19.05 in the tiele (and Hello?) but 18.11 at the top
21:24 cait tiele=title
21:26 ashimema meeting script run.. so we should have entries in the calendar and wiki for the next one now
21:26 ashimema have a good one #koha
21:26 cait night :)
21:26 caroline_crazycatlady joined #koha
21:27 caroline_crazycatlady hotel wifi is crap, I suddenly became crazycatlady!
21:28 inlibro joined #koha
21:29 caroline_crazycatlady currently in beautiful Val-d'Or (in my dad's birth region) training the public library staff
21:30 cait nice!
21:32 caroline_crazycatlady Val d'Or in french means Valley of gold
21:35 cait :)
21:38 cait night all
21:53 davidnind cait++
21:56 davidnind cait: I can see what you mean about 18.11 and 19.05, will see if I can figure it out this evening when I get home (unless it gets fixed before then)
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22:25 irma__ joined #koha
22:28 inlibro joined #koha
22:44 caroline_crazycatlady does anybody actually use the "Allow changes from" drop-down when creating a list? Especially the "Nobody" option makes absolutely no sense to me
22:53 lukeG joined #koha
23:24 thd rangi: Do you have a moment to give me an email address?
23:28 inlibro joined #koha

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