IRC log for #koha, 2019-06-26

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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06:10 cait @later tell Joubu some names (mark and me) appear doubled up as Rescues - what is a rescue?
06:10 huginn` cait: The operation succeeded.
06:12 ashimema mornin' cait
06:12 ashimema mornin' #koha
06:13 ashimema I added rescues.. maybe I got the query wrong subtly
06:14 ashimema a rescue is taking a bug from a status of "Failed QA" or "Patch doesn't apply" to a "better" status (at the moment moving it from those to anything counts)..
06:15 ashimema I wanted to gamify rescuing of patches that have got left dormant.. perhaps I should add in a diff on older dates.. but for now it's nice to just get people paying attention to fixing qa failures and brining patches back into being appliable.
06:15 ashimema :)
06:16 ashimema next on my hit list is fixing the new devs
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06:38 reiveune hello
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06:51 fridolin hi
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06:56 alex_a bonjour
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07:35 liliputech_asu bonjour/3
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08:04 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 23211: Prevent SIP/Transaction.t to fail randomly <[…]e50f65d212941c5b4>
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08:32 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
08:32 wahanui Congratulations!
08:32 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D9 build #792: FIXED in 28 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_Master_D9/792/
08:42 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
08:42 wahanui Congratulations!
08:42 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U18 build #289: FIXED in 37 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_U18/289/
08:44 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D8 build #304: SUCCESS in 41 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_Master_D8/304/
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09:05 vfernandes hi #koha
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11:27 oleonard Hi #koha
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11:40 calire hi oleonard
11:40 wahanui hi oleopard
11:49 oleonard Okay I've read email now what
11:57 ashimema it's quiet today
11:57 ashimema calire.. what do you see as the next steps for recalls ?
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12:47 caroline_catlady hello everyone!
12:49 oleonard Hi caroline_catlady and inlibro, the digital personification of the company inlibro
12:51 caroline_catlady We asked an intern to add IRC to our Mattermost, but I don't think he understood the task. I want MY IRC in MY Mattermost, not just "inlibro"
12:51 ashimema lol
12:54 * oleonard had not heard of Mattermost until now
12:56 caroline_catlady We use it as our internal chat
12:56 caroline_catlady , no slack for us
12:57 * ashimema would love to wean ptfs-e off slack
12:57 ashimema can mattermosts talk to each other?
12:57 oleonard It looks pretty slick
12:57 caroline_catlady I think the major point is that you can host it yourself
12:57 ashimema I like that I have shared channels in slack to talk directly to Bywater and Interleaf for example
12:58 caroline_catlady ashimema: not sure... we do have "public" channels
12:58 ashimema federation does tend to be hard
12:58 caroline_catlady Our clients can reach us through that, but we don't advertise it, we prefer to they through the ticket platform
12:59 caroline_catlady Right now our public channel is mostly used to send jokes and stuff like that amonst ourselves
13:01 caroline_catlady I see that I can add several servers
13:01 oleonard In other worse the public channel is the most important facet of your organization's entire communications array
13:01 ashimema cool
13:02 calire looks nice
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13:27 oleonard Hi wizzyrea
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14:21 wizzyrea hi :)
14:21 * wizzyrea yawns
14:27 * oleonard seconds that yawn
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14:34 caroline_catlady ppl who work for support companies, what do you ask of clients in terms of data extraction from their old software?
14:34 caroline_catlady Do you ask them to give you the data, and they have to figure out how to extract it? Or do you offer to extract it from them?
14:35 caroline_catlady *for them
14:37 caroline_catlady I can't deal with the back and forth anymore, it's so draining -_- They don't know the software they've been using for years...
14:40 oleonard caroline_catlady: I imagine that's something which is negotiated in the contract, with data extraction being an option
14:52 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.05_U18 build #4: SUCCESS in 30 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.05_U18/4/
14:53 cait caroline_catlady: we ask for the data and they have to figure it out
14:53 cait if we happen to know how it works we would give them hints of course, butoften we don't
14:53 cait and they have to ask the current vendor to do it
14:54 cait I think someone once argued that it might be a legal issue if they gave you access to the db, as the db schema is often kind of 'secret'
14:59 kidclamp I believe we also ask for the data and do not go fetch it for them
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15:03 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.05_D9 build #7: UNSTABLE in 38 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]/Koha_19.05_D9/7/
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15:19 koha-jenkins Project Koha_18.11_D9 build #109: SUCCESS in 26 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_18.11_D9/109/
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15:30 koha-jenkins Project Koha_18.11_D8 build #109: SUCCESS in 27 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_18.11_D8/109/
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15:57 koha-jenkins Project Koha_18.11_D8 build #110: SUCCESS in 26 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_18.11_D8/110/
15:57 koha-jenkins Project Koha_18.11_U18 build #104: SUCCESS in 51 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_18.11_U18/104/
15:58 bag caroline_catlady: We will definitely give as much assistance as we can.  Sometimes we connect current libraries with past libraries that have successfully extracted data from said database.
15:59 bag Always praying that they have saved their notes ;).  (usually we do ask them to keep their notes)
15:59 cait bag, caroline_catlady. we've done that too, but just a much lower number o fmigrations for us - and not many double ups with ILS
16:00 cait bye all, cya later for hte meeting
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16:01 bag yeah I think we’ve had multiples of every system so far.  the rarist for us is ISIS (just not many of those in the US Market)
16:04 reiveune bye
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16:28 ashimema We do a mix here
16:28 ashimema Generally they have to try and get it out.. though we do fairly often help too (
16:29 ashimema We've got lots of experience of other systems in our midst so generally can offer a fair bit of help and find giving that help early prevents pain later on
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16:30 ashimema We also pride ourselves sometimes on helping people get their data out in creative ways if their previous system support people want to charge them a fortune to get their own data
16:30 ashimema caroline_catlady ^
16:43 bag those are great points ashimema
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16:44 bag heya cait
16:47 koha-jenkins Project Koha_18.11_U18 build #105: SUCCESS in 49 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_18.11_U18/105/
16:56 ashimema oleonard++ #bugwrangling
17:02 koha-jenkins Project Koha_18.11_D8 build #111: SUCCESS in 22 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_18.11_D8/111/
17:18 koha-jenkins Project Koha_18.11_D9 build #111: SUCCESS in 34 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_18.11_D9/111/
17:25 koha-jenkins Project Koha_18.11_D8 build #112: SUCCESS in 22 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_18.11_D8/112/
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17:47 koha-jenkins Project Koha_18.11_D8 build #113: SUCCESS in 22 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_18.11_D8/113/
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17:50 koha-jenkins Project Koha_18.11_D9 build #112: SUCCESS in 31 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_18.11_D9/112/
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18:08 oleonard @drink get mojito
18:08 huginn` oleonard: I've exhausted my database of quotes
18:08 oleonard I'm sure it's just a question of syntax
18:11 ashimema Lol
18:11 * ashimema may be mixing a mojito as he types
18:17 koha-jenkins Project Koha_18.11_D9 build #113: SUCCESS in 26 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_18.11_D9/113/
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18:27 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
18:27 wahanui Congratulations!
18:27 koha-jenkins Project Koha_18.11_U18 build #107: FIXED in 49 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_18.11_U18/107/
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18:42 cait @caipirinha
18:42 huginn` cait: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready
18:42 wahanui i already had it that way, huginn`.
18:43 cait maybe we are missing the cocktail addon
18:44 ashimema I reckon so
18:44 oleonard @drink get Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster
18:44 huginn` oleonard: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready
18:44 wahanui i already had it that way, huginn`.
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18:47 * andreashm waves
18:48 andreashm I HEARD THERE WAS MOJITOS!
18:51 oleonard Oh no andreashm we *just* ran out!!
18:51 cait heh
18:51 andreashm Aaaaaargh
18:51 cait you are mean oleonard
18:51 * andreashm goes out into the garden to get mint.
18:52 cait no garden... *sigh*
18:52 * oleonard wonders if you can make mojitos from random weeds
18:52 andreashm if only there was rum around
18:52 cait you will probably not be allowed to call it a mojito then
18:53 * andreashm settles for ice cream instead
18:53 caroline_catlady dandelion and rhum...
18:54 cait dandelion is edible....
18:54 cait just needs a fancy name then
18:55 alexbuckley hi everyone :)
18:55 cait hi alexbuckley
18:55 andreashm hey
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18:55 caroline_catlady arugula and gin?
18:55 cait heh
18:55 * cait dares caroline_catlady to make it and send a photo drinking it
18:56 andreashm =)
18:56 alexbuckley :)
18:56 caroline_catlady hehe!
18:56 caroline_catlady I'm tempted...
18:56 alexbuckley hi hayley
18:56 cait caroline_catlady: might conter with spinach and ouzo lol
18:57 ashimema evening all.. well.. morning alexbuckley
18:57 cait morning hayley :)
18:57 alexbuckley morning ashimema :)
18:57 hayley morning!
18:57 wahanui morning is always someone's afternoon
18:58 ashimema shall we get this show on the road then..
18:58 ashimema suppose I best wait 2 minutes to be nice :)
18:58 caroline_catlady cait: well, well, well, look at this![…]drink-recipe.html
18:58 cait you cheated... somehow :)
18:59 oleonard Oh no I have neither a Bearss lime nor rustic Sylvetta arugula
19:00 cait https://www.thewineconnoisseur[…]spinach-pie-ouzo/ ? :)
19:00 caroline_catlady I was looking up what would be good with arugula...
19:00 ashimema #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 26 June 2019
19:00 huginn` Meeting started Wed Jun 26 19:00:17 2019 UTC.  The chair is ashimema. Information about MeetBot at
19:00 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
19:00 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 26 June 2019)
19:00 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_26_june_2019'
19:00 ashimema #topic Introductions
19:00 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 26 June 2019)
19:00 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe
19:00 ashimema #chair cait
19:00 huginn` Current chairs: ashimema cait
19:00 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries, Ohio, USA
19:00 bag #info Brendan Gallagher ByWater
19:00 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
19:01 andreashm #info Andreas Hedström Mace, Stockholm University Library
19:01 alexbuckley #info Alex Buckley, Catalyst IT Wellington NZ
19:01 ashimema as much as I was enjoying the cocktail chatter ;)
19:01 josef_moravec #info Josef Moravec, Czech Republic
19:01 hayley #info Hayley Mapley Catalyst IT Wellington NZ
19:01 ashimema Nice to have some representation from NZ :).. hope this time is a bit better for you guys :)?
19:02 cait 7 am if i am not imstaken
19:02 davidnind joined #koha
19:02 alexbuckley yes 7am is much better :)
19:02 hayley That's right! It's a decent hour :)
19:02 cait opinions on that being a decent hour may vary :)
19:02 alexbuckley heh
19:02 hayley haha, true
19:03 davidnind #info David Nind
19:03 ashimema #topic Announcements
19:03 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 26 June 2019)
19:04 ashimema #info We have a new leaderboard on the dashboard - 'Rescues', let's gamify getting bugs out of Failed QA/Patch doesn't apply :)
19:04 cait ah
19:04 ashimema #link Dashboard
19:04 cait it's great, but i tihnk it needs a little fixing
19:04 cait names are doubled up there still :)
19:04 cait Tomas, me and Martin righ tnow
19:04 ashimema yeah.. I've got a patch waiting.. just need to catch rangi to get it deployed
19:04 cait nice :)
19:05 cait could we put it last so the columns align?
19:05 ashimema RM's can make GROUP BY mistakes too :P
19:05 cait the signoffs and passed qas etc.
19:06 cait sorry :)
19:06 ashimema erm.. in what sense cait?
19:06 cait signoffs june and signofs 2019
19:06 ashimema they look alligned to me.. but perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean
19:06 cait without the typos obviously
19:06 cait are no longer in one column
19:06 ashimema ooh.. now I see what you mean
19:06 * cait tries harder to make sense
19:07 ashimema #action ashimema to get vertical alignment of like for like columns working on the dashboard again
19:07 cait :)
19:07 ashimema anyone else got any anouncements?
19:07 cait any events maybe?
19:08 * ashimema thought we might be maintanence releaseing today, but I think it's tomorrow now.
19:08 cait move on?
19:09 * ashimema is just looking up the marseille hackfest dates to take the oportunity to advertise it
19:09 cait sept 30th - oct 4th.
19:10 cait ashimema: ^:)
19:10 oleonard Oh yeah it's on the calendar. Was there an official announcement?
19:10 cait sec i can find the email link too
19:11 ashimema #info Next Hackfest in the diary is Marseille, 30th Sept - 4th Oct 2019
19:11 cait taking a little longer to find the non-nabble link
19:11 ashimema a while back yeah.. but it's nice to keep it in the forefront of peoples minds ;)
19:11 ashimema moving on...
19:11 oleonard Oh no wonder I didn't remember :D
19:11 cait #link http://lists.koha-community.or[…]ember/044964.html Marselle Hackfest dates
19:12 ashimema #topic Update from the Release Manager
19:12 Topic for #koha is now Update from the Release Manager (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 26 June 2019)
19:12 ashimema #info We've started pushing small enhancements now, having been concentrating mostly on bugs for the last month.
19:13 ashimema I intend to continue with small enhancements, nothing earth shattering for a couple more weeks whilst 19.05.x is still bedding in, but then I hope to have a more adventurous window of a couple of months for the bigger new features and enhancements.
19:15 ashimema I've been trying to touch base with various parties who I know have things in the pipeline so I can help spread out SO/QA resources so let me know if you have anything like that (beware though.. throwing bugs at me to ask for SO/QA's on means I'll likely throw a few back for SO/QA from others) :)
19:15 ashimema that's my piece.. any questions for the RM?
19:16 ashimema rmaints?
19:16 wahanui rmaints is probably fridolin, lucas and wizzyrea
19:16 oleonard probably
19:16 wahanui probably is too hard.
19:16 ashimema moving on then
19:16 ashimema #topic Update from the Release Maintainers
19:16 Topic for #koha is now Update from the Release Maintainers (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 26 June 2019)
19:16 ashimema could be quiet, none of them appear to be here...
19:18 ashimema Well, having touched base with fridolin this morning I believe their aiming for 19.05.01 release tomorrow
19:18 ashimema with the other following in behind
19:18 ashimema #info 19.05.01 scheduled for release tomorrow
19:18 ashimema moving on again
19:18 ashimema #topic Update from the QA team
19:18 Topic for #koha is now Update from the QA team (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 26 June 2019)
19:18 ashimema qa?
19:18 wahanui hmmm... qa is unhappy about that, please fix
19:19 cait yes
19:19 cait I've been out of the loop a bit in recent weeks because of personal matters, hope things will improve now
19:19 amoyano joined #koha
19:19 tcohen hi
19:19 cait #info QA queue is currently at around 50
19:20 cait some 'problem' areas are SIP2, Elastic and REST API
19:20 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Theke Solutions
19:20 * ashimema thinks caits still doing a great job on the weekly emails and keeping things moving along
19:20 cait help from topic experts much appreciated
19:20 cait we have some big projects going on and some quite big patches waiting
19:20 amoyano #info Agustin Moyano, Theke Solutions
19:20 cait worried about the number of bad (blocker, critical and major) bugs we see right now
19:21 ashimema indeed.. we need eyes on those
19:21 cait #info Currently we face 1 blocker, 3 criticals and 21 majors, patch writers, testers and QA people needed
19:22 ashimema Thanks cait
19:22 cait #info additional testing/sign-offs on some of the long sitting patches in QA queue would be great to get more confidence in passing them along
19:22 cait nothing more from me
19:23 ashimema :)
19:23 ashimema #topic General development discussion
19:23 Topic for #koha is now General development discussion (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 26 June 2019)
19:23 ashimema we have a point points today
19:23 ashimema #topic Bugzilla status proposals
19:23 Topic for #koha is now Bugzilla status proposals (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 26 June 2019)
19:24 * ashimema realises now her forgot to link the agenda
19:24 ashimema #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ting_26_June_2019 Agenda
19:24 cait me too :)
19:24 ashimema So.. I think we've actually voted on these bugzilla status proposals before.. but we've not managed to impliment the changes yet
19:25 ashimema I basically propose a bit of a tidy up of some of our no longer used status's and to get the 'Pushed to..' status's to match our debian releases
19:25 ashimema i.e stable, oldstable and oldoldstable.
19:26 cait only question i have is if we need to resolve existing bugs having status to be deleted (but not sur e they exist)
19:26 thd joined #koha
19:26 ashimema probably not much more to discuss there unless anyone has any issues they'd like to point out.
19:26 ashimema I want to touch base with rangi on that one cait :)
19:26 cait ok :)
19:27 ashimema next topic
19:27 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
19:27 cait so we are going to do it, right?
19:27 ashimema I think so, yes
19:27 cait once you do it, can you ping me? I'd try and update the wiki
19:28 cait and I'd like to propose removal of some fields from the bugzilla form for next meeting
19:28 ashimema we already voted to say yes.. this is just a friendly reminder about it as time has passed and that I'm going to pin it down and get it done ;)
19:28 cait I think less could we more there
19:28 cait could be
19:28 ashimema so.. moving on
19:28 ashimema agree.. wuold love to see such a proposal on the next meeting :)
19:29 ashimema I agree.. but I hadn't got anything ready to propose for this one ;)
19:29 ashimema so..
19:29 ashimema #topic Deprecate package support for Debian 8 and Ubuntu 16.04
19:29 Topic for #koha is now Deprecate package support for Debian 8 and Ubuntu 16.04 (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 26 June 2019)
19:29 ashimema tcohen you may be better at explaining the reasoning for this proposal than me
19:30 mtompset joined #koha
19:30 ashimema grr.. the bug linked on the agenda isn't the right one
19:30 inlibro joined #koha
19:30 tcohen Jessie has entered maintenance (security) only, no new stuffs, that's what I understood
19:30 cait we'll find it
19:31 cait bug 23128
19:31 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=23128 major, P5 - low, ---, mirko, In Discussion , Missing Net::OAuth2::AuthorizationServer dependency
19:31 cait fixing wiki
19:31 tcohen and 16.04 is based on jessie
19:31 ashimema thanks, that's the one
19:31 tcohen if we want the REST API Oauth2 to work out of the box, we need this
19:31 ashimema So, yes..
19:32 tcohen people using jessie and 16.04 can still install Koha
19:32 cait fixed
19:32 ashimema Jessie is in maintanence mode already, and that's due to come to an end in a couple of months I believe
19:32 tcohen things won't be installed automatically, but they can cpanm them
19:32 ashimema and.. we have some packaging issues that nessesitate we drop support
19:32 tcohen there's a problem in packages names that prevents a solution that fits all
19:33 cait so that would be for 19.11 right?
19:33 cait or also for the maintenance releases
19:34 ashimema So.. do we need to vote on this or do we feel it's nessesary to the extent that we just need to do it.
19:34 cait I trust Mirko there
19:34 tcohen cait: we need drojf, but I'm sure 19.05 is involved
19:34 tcohen I trust him as well
19:35 ashimema from what drojf was saying I believe it will only affect 'new installs'
19:35 thd We should probably vote in any case unless we have a standing policy.
19:35 ashimema so existing installations tracking the repositories should be fine as they should already have any required dependancies installed
19:36 * ashimema comes up with how to phrase the vote
19:36 cait that's always the hard part :)
19:37 oleonard "Should we do this thing?" Yes/No
19:37 ashimema #startvote Can we deprecate support for Debian 8 (Jessie) and Ubuntu 16.04 in the packages? Yes, No
19:37 huginn` Begin voting on: Can we deprecate support for Debian 8 (Jessie) and Ubuntu 16.04 in the packages? Valid vote options are Yes, No.
19:37 huginn` Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
19:37 tcohen #vote Yes
19:37 thd #vote Yes
19:37 ashimema #vote Yes
19:37 josef_moravec #vote Yes
19:37 oleonard #vote Yes
19:38 andreashm #vote Yes
19:38 amoyano #vote Yes
19:38 alexbuckley #vote Yes
19:38 hayley #vote Yes
19:38 cait #vote yes
19:38 cait #vote Yes
19:38 wizzyrea #vote Yes
19:38 cait not sure if case-sensitive
19:38 davidnind #vote yes
19:38 ashimema that's pretty overwhelming :)
19:38 * tcohen shouts cait is cheating
19:39 ashimema think that's pretty much everyone here
19:39 ashimema 3
19:39 ashimema 2
19:39 ashimema 1
19:39 ashimema #endvote
19:39 huginn` Voted on "Can we deprecate support for Debian 8 (Jessie) and Ubuntu 16.04 in the packages?" Results are
19:39 huginn` Yes (12): davidnind, cait, josef_moravec, oleonard, ashimema, andreashm, wizzyrea, tcohen, alexbuckley, thd, amoyano, hayley
19:40 ashimema #agree We will deprecate our support for Debian 8 and Ubuntu 16.08 in the packages.. announcement from Mirko to follow
19:40 ashimema next up
19:41 ashimema #topic Proposal to fork 'simple keyboard project'
19:41 Topic for #koha is now Proposal to fork 'simple keyboard project' (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 26 June 2019)
19:41 tcohen This needs a better wording hehe
19:41 ashimema #info This is a proposal to maintain our own fork of the 'simple keyboard project' to allow community members to contribute new keyboard layouts.
19:42 amoyano actually it's Mottie Keyboard proyect
19:42 cait I am not sure I understood yet why the fork is needed
19:42 ashimema #info We will need to work on a process for keeping our fork up to date with upstream whilst maintaining our fork.
19:42 cait do we already have a demand for new layouts/is the project not open for those?
19:42 tcohen I think this went the wrong way
19:42 tcohen let me explain a bit
19:43 tcohen we (Koha) use other external projects (like some jquery libs) and usually just bundle the minified version in our codebase
19:43 tcohen on adding this keyboard (JS lib)
19:43 * ashimema is coming to this one cold..
19:43 tcohen we thought it would be nice to have a clear path to
19:43 * ashimema listens intently :)
19:44 tcohen - keep it up to date
19:44 tcohen - allow community users to propose custom layouts that could be of use
19:44 tcohen we don't really need to fork them now
19:44 wizzyrea I feel like we should just contribute to their upstream, assuming they are active enough?
19:44 tcohen we have a request from Irma to add maori
19:44 tcohen that belongs to upstream, we don't need to fork it
19:45 tcohen just send the layout and follow the steps to update our copy
19:45 tcohen but
19:45 josef_moravec they are active, I added Czech language support recently:[…]%3Apr+is%3Aclosed
19:45 tcohen the customer that asked for this dev showed us some screenshots
19:45 tcohen of another system's 'symbols shortcut'
19:46 tcohen that we thought at some point it would be a nice thing to have
19:46 tcohen but it is not something we really need to do now
19:46 josef_moravec it is nice thing to have ;)
19:46 cait josef_moravec++ :)
19:47 tcohen what we wanted was a way to keep things up to date
19:47 cait so maybe not quite a fork... but having it 'forked' in our repo to speed up changes in Koha while waiting for it to be accepted?
19:47 tcohen and maybe have our own layouts
19:47 ashimema #info it's Mottie Keyboard and not Simple Keyboard Project
19:47 wizzyrea that isn't something we think the upstream would take straight away?
19:47 tcohen the idea was to have a mirror of their repo in the gitlab/koha-community place
19:47 wizzyrea joined #koha
19:48 tcohen and if required, maybe have our own branch
19:48 ashimema I've never been a huge fan of our bundling.. it would be nice to be able to lean on CDN's for delivery of such resources
19:48 tcohen with a gitlab-ci script to auto-generate the file that needs to be included in Koha
19:49 cait makes sense to me now
19:49 thd Mirroring their repo and adding a Koha branch if we need to be ahead of their release cycle seems prudent and modest non-forking choice.
19:49 oleonard This could be a trial for using npm to install JS assets for Koha
19:49 Nemo_bis it's a pain to override hardcoded CDN URLs when you don't want to send all your users' IP addresses to some CDN server
19:49 ashimema so less of a fork more of a mirror that may be marginally ahead of the origin whilst things get submitted upstream
19:50 tcohen oleonard: that'd be ideal
19:50 tcohen ashimema: exactly
19:50 ashimema so that makes sense to me
19:50 tcohen we don't need this to move this dev, as it is fully functional and all, but once maori is accepted upstream, we would like a clear maintenance path
19:50 josef_moravec it seems reasonable to me
19:50 oleonard tcohen: I've been starting to look at how that would work, so we should talk about it
19:50 tcohen or czech
19:50 ashimema and I take onboard Nemo_bis's point about not wanting to send people IP's to CDN's
19:51 cait yep my point too
19:51 tcohen oleonard: I'll send amoyano in your direction he
19:51 cait so should we vote or just do it?
19:51 ashimema also.. as good as CDN coverage is.. we support koha everywhere and coverage is not always 100% (I'm looking at you, local small library not connected to the internet)
19:51 wizzyrea i'm really not in favor of using CDN's
19:52 wizzyrea like 99% nope
19:52 ashimema whose going to front such a project.. how do we go about maintaining it?
19:52 ashimema should such layouts go through our own SO/QA process etc?
19:52 ashimema before being submitted upstream?
19:52 lukeG1 joined #koha
19:53 tcohen I'd postpone this until we really need a custom layout
19:53 ashimema forward mirror is it then.. we just need to work out the details between us...
19:53 cait these are goo dquestions, we need to nail processes down for some of our side projects as well that are hosted on gitlab
19:54 ashimema I feel like it could warrant it's own mini maintainer each cycle.. a topic expert with a bit of extra power whose responsability it is to make sure our contributions to that project are sound
19:54 ashimema food for thought
19:54 wizzyrea on the one hand you don't want people to waste their time
19:54 wizzyrea on the other -- the person submitting the patch to that other upstream should feel confident enough in their work to submit it there as well?
19:55 thd Seeing no objection it should be possible to do something without a vote on some occasions if it does not deprecate or break some previous process as with the previous question where deprecating Jessie might interfere with someone's plan's as it is still today the long term stable distribution.
19:55 wizzyrea without a lot of bureaucracy from our side
19:55 ashimema indeed
19:56 ashimema I'm still seriously wondering about even needing to have our own copy that's ahead
19:57 oleonard We've got a lot to get through... can we table this for now?
19:57 ashimema feels like we just need to commit to staying up to date with upstream and then people submit back to that project rather than us directly
19:57 thd If we do not need our own copy ahead then there will be no need to take the trouble to create such.
19:57 ashimema whilst the project is active that should work fine
19:57 cait so get your chances into the project... file a bug with koha to updated packaged?
19:57 wizzyrea ++ to that
19:58 ashimema we just need a solid process to ensure we stay up to date with upstream.. so the gitlab-ci type stuff perhaps fits there still
19:58 cait and if we turnout to need something very specific, we create the 'fork'
19:58 ashimema agreed
19:58 tcohen NOOP
19:59 ashimema Feels like we've reached somewhat of a concensus.. I'll write up a summary of this conversation on the bug and we can discus further next meeting if needed?
19:59 wizzyrea yep
19:59 AnnaBoten joined #koha
20:00 cait info?
20:00 wahanui info is largely out there.. just not especially well summarised
20:00 tcohen +1
20:00 cait or an agreed maybe
20:00 ashimema #info ashimema will write a summary of the above conversation and submit it to the bug..
20:00 ashimema moving on
20:00 davidnind +1
20:00 kathryn joined #koha
20:01 ashimema #topic What are the workflows with regards maintaining the mana-kb serverside project
20:01 Topic for #koha is now What are the workflows with regards maintaining the mana-kb serverside project (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 26 June 2019)
20:01 ashimema So... this one was me
20:01 ashimema we're not at all clear yet on how we intend on maintaining the mana-kb server project.
20:02 cait someone from Biblibre around?
20:02 ashimema We've got a whoe series of bugs open on it, but no clear flow for SO/QA/Pushing/Deploying
20:02 ashimema no alex_a here :(
20:03 ashimema We have had bugs recorded in both gitlab and bugzilla.. I've now disabled the gitlab issue tracking and added a link to bugzilla instead (so we're at least only tracking in one place now)
20:03 ashimema but how do we envisage actually testing any code that's submitted for that project?
20:03 ashimema open to the floor.. basically.. I need help understanding how to move things forward there
20:04 cait basically I think next time we need to have this discussion before integration :)
20:04 cait I have no idea how to handle it well, but I think a first step would be to flesh out the wiki for Mana (and Hea): https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]te_Administration
20:04 cait right now we haven't even documented who runs the server that we ship by defalut and who can be approached
20:05 ashimema as the most involved there aren't here right now.. I'm going to suggest we move on as we're already an hour in.
20:05 ashimema I'll bring this one back up as required next meeting no doubt
20:05 cait I'd love ot see this not limited to people from the company hosting, but like other services to include other people as well
20:05 ashimema #info Mana (and HEA) discussion shelved untill next meeting.
20:06 ashimema agreed.. but I think it needs to start with the original authors to help get more people onboard with it.
20:06 ashimema #topic Moving PayPal payments into a plugin
20:06 Topic for #koha is now Moving PayPal payments into a plugin (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 26 June 2019)
20:06 josef_moravec I think the standard SO/QA proccess would be great for side projects too...
20:06 ashimema tcohen.. another of yours..
20:06 tcohen amoyano's
20:07 * cait waves at amoyano
20:07 amoyano Sorry
20:08 * ashimema adds joesf_moravec to his list of interested Mana parties and will approach him tomorrow with idea's regarding how to bring it inline with our SO/QA process
20:08 amoyano I made a plugin that implements paypal logic
20:08 tcohen #link[…]in-pay-via-paypal
20:08 ashimema amoyano++
20:08 tcohen amoyano++
20:08 amoyano now, plugin and logic within koha can cohexist
20:09 amoyano but it would be nice to deprecate the code in next releases
20:09 ashimema so.. this can run alongside the existing in core paypal if I understand it correctly (for now)
20:09 amoyano yes, that's right
20:09 ashimema and we can work on a plan to transisition out the core support over a couple of cycles and help people move to using the plugin as an alternative?
20:09 ashimema brill
20:10 cait I have talked to tochen about it - one regression would be translatability, but I tihnk you have been working on a solution?
20:10 * ashimema really wants to work on a 'plugin store' at some point soon
20:10 josef_moravec ashimema++
20:11 thd What is the translatability solution?
20:11 alexbuckley ashimema++
20:11 cait to explain, the paypal core code includes some strings that would be not translatable with our current approach to plugins
20:11 amoyano we use the eds approach
20:11 amoyano placing translatable strings in .inc files
20:11 ashimema what is the eds approach?
20:11 tcohen[…]rap/includes/lang
20:12 cait is there a fallbadk to english if an entry would be missing?
20:12 amoyano yes, that's the default language
20:13 tcohen it uses getlanguage
20:13 cait amoyano++ :) I was long waiting for this
20:13 ashimema I think plugins authors need to be responsible for their translatability and translations.. but we need to advocate some best practices
20:13 ashimema and.. with a plugins store we could highlight 'better' and 'worse' supported plugins which would include how well maintained the translations are.
20:13 amoyano that's what we've been trying to do
20:13 amoyano including gitlab-ci
20:14 cait it could be a requirement for acceptance into the store... or at least a searchable criteria
20:14 ashimema agreed cait
20:14 * ashimema has plans for said project.. I'm building an RFC at the moment and then will start coding and then look for additional volunteers
20:14 ashimema but that's another story ;)
20:15 cait :)
20:15 cait so what is the proposed timeline? to get discussion back on track :)
20:15 ashimema shall we jump on again
20:15 ashimema #info Theke (amoyano in particular) have build a Paypal online payments plugin
20:16 cait I think we could deprecate the core code with 19.11
20:16 tcohen cait: it only lacks all currently supported languages
20:16 cait having the plugin as option
20:16 cait and then have it removed in 20.05
20:16 ashimema #info We should look at deprecating the core PayPal code some time during the next couple of cycles
20:16 tcohen we can fix that with a script
20:16 ashimema #info We need to work on further plugin guidlines and infrestucture (a plugin store for example) to build a path ahead for this.
20:17 cait tcohen: if you could use existing translations to populate the plugin ones that would be awesome
20:17 ashimema I'd say we can aim for 19.11 but keep 20.05 as a backstop
20:17 * ashimema shivers as he realises he just used a brexit term
20:17 amoyano there is a release available at[…]paypal/-/releases for anyone who cares to try
20:17 * cait hands ashimema some gin with arugula
20:18 ashimema #link[…]paypal/-/releases PayPal Plugin
20:18 ashimema how are people doing.. shall we knock off any more or are we running out of steam
20:19 cait i tihnk having jajm for the mojo one could be nice
20:19 * ashimema is happy to postpone the next ones for next meeting if people are struggling
20:19 cait is there something peopl eneed an urgent decision on in the list still?
20:19 ashimema Skip to review of coding guidlines I reckon
20:19 tcohen I'm leaving now, sorry!
20:19 * amoyano has to go, and says goodbye to everyone
20:20 ashimema I don't think the other two are painful
20:20 thd I am happy for either choice.
20:20 ashimema SQL12 was for tcohen in the coding guidlines
20:20 cait maybe postpone that too?
20:20 ashimema Right..
20:21 ashimema #info remainder of General topic for discussion will be posponed to the next meeting
20:21 ashimema #topc Review of coding guidelines
20:21 ashimema #info We will postpone the review of the coding guidelines untill the next meetng when those invovled should be present.
20:21 ashimema #topic Set time of next meeting
20:21 Topic for #koha is now Set time of next meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 26 June 2019)
20:22 ashimema Right.. that all important last one.
20:22 ashimema two weeks time, back to EU afternoon?
20:22 ashimema does that suit most..
20:23 cait sounds good to me (being in Europe)
20:24 ashimema so that's the 10th right..
20:24 hayley Today's meeting time suits better for us NZers, we'd love to keep attending but it's hard if it's super early morning
20:24 ashimema General meeting that day in the evening for us eu's
20:24 wizzyrea it rotates around the world :)
20:24 wizzyrea the time
20:24 wahanui the time is, like, har dto find,... but i put in cait's todo - just tons in there already
20:24 wizzyrea forget the time
20:24 wahanui wizzyrea: I forgot time
20:24 hayley Alrighty :)
20:24 cait heh wahanui
20:24 alexbuckley :)
20:25 ashimema I'm hoping to stick to a rotation of two times.. with the second time being that bit later for the europeans than it has been last couple of cycles.. in the hopes of catching you guys in NZ
20:25 ashimema :)
20:25 alexbuckley thanks ashimema!
20:25 cait hm not sure if later works
20:25 ashimema so next one will likely be terrible for you guys.. but then after that a much better one again
20:25 cait maybe more an early morning one
20:25 wizzyrea (but I totally know that it sucks for nzers)
20:25 cait for euorpe
20:25 cait to catch nz in the evening
20:25 cait like we catch them now in the morning
20:25 ashimema early morning kills the US doesn't it?
20:26 cait it always kills somoene
20:27 cait it's always bad for some timezone, that should read
20:27 davidnind We don't won't anyone to be killed! :-D
20:28 ashimema 7am UK = 6PM NZ but 2AM USA
20:28 cait yep that's the issue
20:28 ashimema 8pm UK = 7am NZ = 4pm USA
20:29 cait this is late for Europe too, 9pm
20:29 ashimema that certainly seems like the golden hour if we want to try and include as many as possible
20:29 cait well...10 30 now and my laundry is waiting :)
20:29 ashimema lets stick to afternoon EU for the next one.. i'd like to catch biblibre for the HEA and Mana points
20:29 ashimema so..
20:29 cait I think it being outside work ours is an issue for quite a lot
20:29 ashimema sorry NZ.. I love you all really
20:30 thd I prefer the early morning meeting times when they happen because I have not needed to go out yet and I never have trouble going back to sleep if necessary.
20:30 hayley we understand :)
20:30 inlibro joined #koha
20:31 ashimema so..
20:31 ashimema does 10th Aug, 14:00 UTC sound reasonable for everyone else
20:32 ashimema #info Next meeting: 10 August 2019, 14:00:00 UTC
20:32 ashimema done
20:32 ashimema #endmeeting
20:32 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software
20:32 huginn` Meeting ended Wed Jun 26 20:32:30 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
20:32 huginn` Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-06-26-19.00.html
20:32 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]9-06-26-19.00.txt
20:32 huginn` Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]26-19.00.log.html
20:32 * ashimema goes to grab a beer
20:32 paul_p joined #koha
20:33 ashimema thanks for hanging in there guys.. I realise it was a long one.
20:33 thd Did you mean August not July?
20:33 ashimema July
20:33 ashimema crap
20:33 davidnind ashimema++
20:33 ashimema me brain is going to mush
20:33 hayley thanks everyone!
20:34 alexbuckley ashimema++ thanks for chairing the meeting :)
20:34 alexbuckley thanks all
20:34 cait ashimema++
20:34 thd Should you start a momentary corrective meeting for fixing the month?
20:37 ashimema I'll fix it script side
20:37 ashimema I have the power ;)
20:37 thd :)
20:38 * thd is off to fix a troublesome broken computer
21:00 alexbuckley joined #koha
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21:29 inlibro joined #koha
22:15 cait I just did a reset_all... and have this error when searching for test in the OPAC: Can't call method "get_coins" on an undefined value at /home/vagrant/kohaclone/opac/ line 689
22:15 cait anyone seen this?
22:16 cait turning of coins helps things... but then I have a 404 trying to access the detail page
22:17 rangi rebuild zebra?
22:18 cait the reset_all already does that
22:18 cait i just pulled latest changes to misc4dev
22:18 cait maybe it will fix the issue
22:18 rangi it sure looks like the index is wrong
22:18 cait it looks lk the data i snot there
22:18 cait because detai page doesn't work either, but result list does without coins active
22:18 rangi yeah rebuild doesnt work
22:19 cait the records always end up with the same numbers
22:19 cait with reset_all
22:19 rangi yeah thats why i dont use it
22:19 rangi i do things the way that users would
22:19 cait it really makes my life a ton easier
22:19 cait but i don't reset often, i build up my own data as long as i can
22:19 rangi i think dev scripts make us lazy and prone to miss things
22:19 cait the newer version of the misc4dev fixed the issue
22:20 rangi the more we do things different to what we would expect users to do
22:20 rangi the less useful they are
22:20 cait it leaves a lot to setup
22:20 cait do you rememer why we have a lst location column on opac-reserves?
22:21 rangi lst?
22:21 cait last
22:21 cait it seems odd
22:21 rangi nope
22:21 cait we have home library and then: last location
22:21 cait and it will only display if it's different from home library...
22:21 rangi no idea
22:21 cait I think last location seems confusing... just another term for 'current location'
22:22 rangi not something i added, that's all i know :)
22:22 rangi yeah
22:22 cait so you won't get grumpy at least
22:22 cait :)
22:22 rangi i probbaly got grumpy when someone changed it from current to last :)
22:29 inlibro joined #koha
22:56 mtompset joined #koha
22:56 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
22:57 mtompset @seen Joubu
22:57 huginn` mtompset: Joubu was last seen in #koha 2 days, 7 hours, 29 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <Joubu> ho yes I remembered now, I wrote the stuff in TestBuilder.t, so checked it out when it was done, it's lost :)
23:29 inlibro joined #koha
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