IRC log for #koha, 2019-04-10

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:58 cait1 joined #koha
01:22 wizzycray joined #koha
02:13 wizzyrea hi
02:13 wizzyrea hi
02:13 wahanui hello, wizzyrea
02:13 wizzyrea ^ what happens when your IRC window isn't scrolled all the way to the bottom
05:03 chris joined #koha
05:15 fridolin joined #koha
05:16 fridolin hi
05:16 wahanui bidet, fridolin
05:31 ashimema Mornin'
05:38 calire joined #koha
06:12 * ashimema uploaded an image: IMG-20190410-WA0000.jpg (169KB) <[…]fBhYRKAMftCesXBev >
06:13 ashimema Thought I'd join the pet pictures brigade from last night
06:39 cait joined #koha
06:43 reiveune joined #koha
06:43 reiveune hello
06:43 tuxayo hi #koha o/
06:45 tuxayo ashimema: nice picture :) , is that where you live?
06:48 ashimema Yup, five minute walk away.. I'm lucky enough to live on the outskirts of a bug town.. lots of fields and woodlands right on my doorstep but without the challenge of being along way from the modern world either
06:48 * cait waves
06:48 paul_p joined #koha
06:49 ashimema Morning cait
06:49 cait doggie is growing
06:50 alex_a joined #koha
06:51 alex_a bonjour
06:51 ashimema He certainly is.. we randomly bumped into one of his brothers yesterday evening. They lived seeing each other again, it's been nearly 2 months since they saw each other
06:54 cait so they do recognize each other?
06:56 cait does someone have an idea about this one?[…]April/052712.html
06:58 ashimema Oh yes, they knew each other immediately. It was lovely to see
06:59 ashimema No idea on that one
06:59 ashimema Feels like vbox networking issues
06:59 ashimema But I don't really have a clue beyond that
06:59 andrew_ joined #koha
07:01 * ashimema suddenly wonders when he got old.. two kids, a cat, a dog and a house in the country..
07:03 cait at least you can check those things off... i think not having it doesn't mean i am not old :)
07:03 * magnuse thinks cait is forever young
07:04 magnuse ashimema: looks lovely! but what is that green stuff that seems to come out of the ground? is it alive?
07:04 magnuse and maybe ashimema's bug town can explain some of the bugs in koha?
07:05 andreashm joined #koha
07:05 magnuse kia ora andreashm
07:05 ashimema Lol.. I should learn not to join IRC from my phone whilst getting the girls breakfast.. my typo rate goes up even-handed more than usual
07:06 magnuse tee hee
07:06 cait thx magnuse :)
07:14 * ashimema quietly wonders if community would get behind introducing Function::Parameters as a requirement in the Koha namespace
07:19 cait i tihnk i'd need a lengthy explanation ot answer that
07:19 cait today is dev meeting - is bugzilla comonents/side projects something we should discuss? saw your bug comment
07:26 josef_moravec joined #koha
07:33 cait hi josef_moravec!
07:36 davidnind joined #koha
07:36 josef_moravec hi cait
07:49 ashimema Function::Parameters effectively backports perl core signatures back from perl 5.20 to 5.14+
07:50 ashimema and signatures give's us a nice way to 'describe' what parameters a method or function takes along with validating that the parameters have been passed
07:50 ashimema in short.. it would mean we should catch coding bugs quicker
07:51 ashimema lead to higher quality
07:55 cait maybe something to dicsuss as the modern perl workshop?
07:55 ashimema funny you should say that ;)
07:55 ashimema the recommendation came from mst and kraih
07:56 ashimema mind you.. the whole channel practically fell of their chairs when I said we limit ourselves to system perl too
08:04 cait can't tell what not limiting us would mean
08:05 ashimema packaging a more recent perl (and by doing so being able to utilise the feature and performance enhancements of it)
08:05 ashimema perl-build pretty much does it for you from what I understand
08:06 ashimema anywho.. that's all a conversation to mull over at kohacon I reckon
08:07 cait i guess it might cause problems with running koha on non-debian-like distributions?
08:07 cait where packages are not used
08:07 cait also admins might not be happy if they don't run a server for koha alone
08:07 ashimema perhaps.. but that's already a big excersize for the end user..
08:08 cait i think we often pick being inclusive over convenient :)
08:09 ashimema mm
08:10 ashimema but that arguament doesn't always carry here.. newer perls use less resource and perform better.. so in fact could well mean we're more inclusive ;)
08:10 ashimema anywho.. I'll leave that for now
08:10 cait and i don't know enough to really have a valid opinion
08:11 ashimema we've not even managed to bump the minimum perl version past 5.10  when we tried because of some obscure use of an ancient OS by someone
08:11 cait just hwat came into mind why we didn't
08:12 ashimema pinning ourselves to a 12 year old release seems somewhat silly to me
08:13 ashimema afterall.. we refuse to support koha for more than 18 months at this point in reality
08:13 cait i think there is a bug with some discussion for last time we tried to up the version
08:13 ashimema yup
08:13 ashimema there's multiple
08:14 ashimema dcook put a stop on it as he uses an old version of Suse for development
08:14 ashimema at least that's my vague memory of it.
08:15 cait hmm might be
08:15 cait we could discuss again to up the version as a next step maybe?
08:19 andreashm joined #koha
08:27 calire left #koha
08:30 andreashm joined #koha
09:18 vfernandes joined #koha
10:00 calire joined #koha
10:11 cait kidclamp: ping me when you are around and have a minute for elasticsearch debugging?
10:15 paxed AAaargh. and also shows the authorised value description, not the value. ffs
10:16 cait josef_moravec: still around?
10:16 josef_moravec cait: yep
10:16 cait sec, sending you a screenshot
10:17 cait see the issue?
10:17 josef_moravec cait: yes
10:18 josef_moravec but wasn't there, where I saw it last time...
10:18 cait easier to show than write up - maybe something changed
10:18 cait it applied cleanly, so it wasn't me :)
10:18 josef_moravec cait: yes, thanks, I'll look into it....
10:19 cait commented on the bug too
10:20 josef_moravec cait: great, i don't have to search for the bug ;)
10:20 fridolin joined #koha
10:20 cait oh
10:20 cait i should have mentioned the bug number
10:20 cait bug 20421
10:20 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=20421 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, josef.moravec, Failed QA , Apply CheckPrevCheckout logic when placing a hold on the staff client
10:40 paxed and why does MARCdetail and labelMARCdetail show the info differently? MARCdetails shows authorised value description when labeled MARC shows the actual MARC record data. GRRRRH
10:45 davidnind joined #koha
10:59 oleonard joined #koha
11:00 oleonard Oh yeah, the reason I don't leave my PC running overnight is it randomly restarts
11:02 oleonard Hi all
11:02 cait hi oleonard :)
11:20 andreashm joined #koha
11:28 magnuse hi oleonard
11:28 wahanui hi oleopard
11:36 alex_a joined #koha
11:39 oleonard Better?[…]?p=15548963009981
11:40 kidclamp I like it
11:42 ashimema Nice
11:45 magnuse goody
11:49 cait yep
11:49 cait but maybe try with a longer title?
11:53 cait maybe the barcode could be without the () smaller on a new line? that woudl save some space
11:57 oleonard Longer title:[…]?p=15548974055817
11:58 cait is that a made up one or real? :)
12:05 magnuse juvenile? yeah, let's scare the living daylights out of the kids!
12:11 oleonard cait: I simply expanded on the existing title :)
12:33 oleonard cait:[…]?p=15548995836756
12:48 cait i like
12:56 oleonard cait: I keep opening up Bug 22359 and thinking about it, but no great ideas yet from me
12:56 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=22359 normal, P5 - low, 19.05, koha-bugs, NEW , Improve usability of 'change calculation' (bug 11373)
12:56 oleonard I agree that the labels could be improved.
12:56 cait i was wondering if we should just syspref the whole thing away
12:56 cait remove the new stuff
12:56 oleonard I think the functionality makes sense, even if it is awkward on first glance.
12:57 cait i think the 'collected from patron' should not be preset
12:57 cait but empty to begin with
12:57 cait so you can still just process the payment as before... and if you want to calculate you enter what the patron gave you
12:58 cait if they give you matching... you don't need to calculate
12:58 oleonard Yeah that makes sense
12:58 cait could we make the amount paid stand out a bit more?
12:58 cait maybe... some padding or so?
12:59 oleonard Why make it stand out more? I don't understand
13:00 cait my feeling is that it get slost
13:00 cait you suddenly have 3 input fields where it used to be one
13:01 cait hm ok 2
13:02 cait and if you click pay it says collected and if you click pay amount collect
13:02 * andreashm looks at that bug
13:02 cait yes plz
13:02 andreashm I don't really understand that screenshot at all
13:02 cait as in not seeing a problem or as in not seeign what you would have to do?
13:03 andreashm what's the difference between amount paid and collect from patron?
13:03 cait i figured now: amount paid is what you want to pay, collect is what they give you
13:03 cait so they say: pay 5, give you 10, return 5
13:03 andreashm but the total amount outstanding is 13.20. and the payment 13.20?
13:04 cait but the collect is preset withthe full amount owed.. which leads to this funny screenshot
13:04 cait i wanted to do a partial payment there
13:04 oleonard And 'amount paid' can be changed so that a partial payment can be made on this specific charge.
13:06 andreashm I truly hade those two. ("pay and amount towards all fines" and "partial payments")
13:06 cait hm?
13:07 cait btw, click on confirm
13:07 cait i also have issues with the modal
13:07 andreashm those options are horribly prone to errors
13:07 andreashm by staff
13:08 cait hm
13:08 cait we neverhad any complaints about those
13:08 cait more like 'we like' in training
13:09 andreashm maybe it's better now, but "pay an amount towards all fines" used to calculate really weird on what to actually pay.
13:11 andreashm did we relable the tabs between releases? in the screenshot it says "transactions" and "make a payment". In our 17.11 this is called "account" and "pay fines"
13:11 cait joined #koha
13:12 cait unplanned restart :(
13:12 andreashm welcome back
13:13 oleonard andreashm: Yes the labels changed
13:15 cait andreashm: it should be oldest to newest (the wird calculation)
13:17 oleonard Should we only show the "change" information if there is change to give?
13:17 cait hm, but how would you know?
13:17 cait i tihnk you would need to enter what you actually got given ?
13:18 oleonard Yeah, I'm not thinking much past what we have now.
13:20 andreashm cait: yes, but the problem is, that just using the oldest to newest might not make the most sense. say you have three fees: 300, 50 and 50. 300 is the oldest.
13:20 oleonard Dev meeting in 40 minutes, yes?
13:20 andreashm A sum of 100 is paymed
13:20 andreashm 200 is left on the oldest.
13:21 andreashm the other two are still there.
13:21 andreashm If any smaller fines match the sum payed, they should be payed for first.
13:22 andreashm otherwise, for large libraries with people who have a lot of transactions, it becomes pretty uncelar what is actually been paid. and when
13:22 andreashm But perhaps that is mostly a problem with the transactions tab, rather than the logic
13:22 andreashm We intend to work with UX of the transaction tabs this year.
13:23 cait andreashm: it pays 300 partially then
13:23 andreashm There was a workshop about it at the last Swedish user gorup meeting
13:23 cait if you want it to work differnt you can select - i don't see how it would be made more clever
13:23 andreashm cait: yeah.
13:23 andreashm That's why I don't like the function. It makes it easy to things to be unclear. =)
13:24 cait i think our libraries like it the way - at lest from what i got in training, but maybe they don't have that many transactions
13:24 oleonard calire++
13:24 andreashm cait: we have some (troublesome) patrons with several hundred lines in accountlines. no fun with partial sums etc.
13:25 * oleonard pleads with everyone to eliminate fines
13:25 cait i see
13:25 * andreashm hopes to not only complain about it, but actually work on it this year
13:25 cait Can't call method "notforloan" on an undefined value at /home/vagrant/kohaclone/C4/ line 1218 - someone seen that?
13:25 cait trying ot place holds
13:28 andreashm oleonard: we do. after a period of time. a long period...
13:29 cait item had no itemtype - never mind
13:29 oleonard andreashm: I mean eliminate the practice completely. We don't charge fines and it's so nice to not have to deal with them
13:30 andreashm oleonard: we tried. management said no. =)
13:30 * oleonard shakes his fist at management
13:30 andreashm (or, researches get no fines. students and the public do)
13:31 oleonard Yeah I'm coming from a public library perspective which is different
13:31 andreashm we eliminated invoicing though. everyone is very happy about that
13:34 wizzyrea joined #koha
13:39 oleonard Hi wizzyrea
13:41 magnuse wizzyrea!
13:41 wahanui wizzyrea is very glad the git repo is reliably working todya
13:43 magnuse arn't we all
13:51 thd joined #koha
13:54 AndrewIsh oleonard:  I should know this but my ageing brain is letting me down, in the OPAC can we rely on JS support being present in the client?
13:54 oleonard My ageing brain has ageing opinions and I prefer the "progressive enhancement" route for the OPAC
13:55 oleonard But that's idealistic and getting fairly out of date
13:56 AndrewIsh Agreed, it would be super interesting to be able to get some stats on browser JS support in OPAC clients, I'd imagine the proportion not supporting at least ES5 would be tiny
13:56 thd oleonard: Such ideals are quite proper.
13:57 thd Tiny but important.  Leave no users behind.
13:57 oleonard You and I think so thd but the web has voted with its feet
13:58 ashimema I very ocassionaly browse the web via Lynx
13:58 * oleonard mutters Nerd
13:58 cait ashimema++ # ldap bug
13:59 thd That is fine for creatures with feet.  If you loose your feet or some equivalent even temporarily, you may have a different perspective where you have already agreed.
13:59 AndrewIsh Call me a pessimist, but I think that's a tricky ideal to uphold. Where do you draw the line, it's a very fuzzy line at best.
13:59 ashimema +1
13:59 AndrewIsh ^^ That was aimed at "Leave no users behind"
13:59 thd I draw the line at if it does not work in lynx it does not work.
14:00 kidclamp #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 10 April 2019
14:00 huginn` Meeting started Wed Apr 10 14:00:05 2019 UTC.  The chair is kidclamp. Information about MeetBot at
14:00 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:00 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 April 2019)
14:00 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_10_april_2019'
14:00 khall joined #koha
14:00 kidclamp #topic Introductions
14:00 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 April 2019)
14:00 kidclamp #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions
14:00 cait #info Katrin Fischer, Germany
14:00 khall #info Kyle M Hall
14:00 kidclamp #chair cait
14:00 huginn` Current chairs: cait kidclamp
14:00 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries, Ohio, USA
14:00 josef_moravec joined #koha
14:00 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
14:01 AndrewIsh #info Andrew Isherwood, PTFS Europe, UK
14:01 josef_moravec #info Josef Moravec
14:01 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe
14:01 * ashimema randomly has an irc timeout at the wrong moment
14:02 kidclamp #topic Announcements
14:02 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 April 2019)
14:02 kidclamp anyone?
14:02 cait #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ing_10_April_2019 Agenda
14:02 wizzyrea hi
14:03 ashimema I'm ahead of schedule this month and have release timelines for the end of the month already :)
14:03 ashimema but I think I'd just confuse people if I anounced them now ;)
14:03 kidclamp heh, you get a chance
14:03 wizzyrea #info Liz Rea, doer of things
14:03 ashimema hehe
14:04 kidclamp #topic Update from the Release manager (19.05)
14:04 Topic for #koha is now Update from the Release manager (19.05) (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 April 2019)
14:04 kidclamp that's me!
14:04 * oleonard inscribes that on a shield for wizzyrea
14:04 kidclamp Release dates were sent out, thank you for patience everyone
14:04 ashimema ack.. I just thought of an anouncement too
14:04 ashimema oh well
14:05 kidclamp we are releasing after kohacon so that hackfest can include cleanup and discussiona dn leave things nice and tidy for the next Rm
14:05 kidclamp I am going to start pushing my (large) queue today
14:05 oleonard hackfest++
14:05 ashimema kidclamp++ release dates
14:05 kidclamp And then will be working on bugs and cleanup
14:05 wizzyrea pushing_the_queue++
14:05 ashimema workshops++ ;)
14:05 oleonard gleaming_the_cube++
14:05 cait talking about next RM
14:05 kidclamp release is going well I think, we definitely have bugs to shake out
14:05 cait #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]i/Roles_for_19.11 Roles for 19.11
14:06 kidclamp yes, please put your names in if interested
14:06 * ashimema has started to switch focus to fixing, soing and qaing bugs now.. but still has a few enhancements he'd love to see make the cut
14:06 oleonard ashimema++ # RM proposal
14:06 cait should we send an mai lto the list too? voting shoudl be next general meeting
14:07 ashimema yup.. well volunteered cait ;)
14:07 kidclamp hehe, just what I was going to say
14:07 kidclamp that's all from me
14:07 cait hey not fiar, had to check on the rice cooking
14:07 ashimema or I could I suppose.. I sent a few last cycle getting people to sign up so have a template
14:08 kidclamp #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers
14:08 Topic for #koha is now Updates from the Release Maintainers (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 April 2019)
14:08 kidclamp mr martin?
14:08 cait @action ashimema to send an meail to the mailing list about sighing up for 19.11 release team
14:08 huginn` cait: I've exhausted my database of quotes
14:08 cait hm.
14:08 ashimema #info 18.11.x has been coming along nicely, the team are all working really well.
14:08 cait @action ashimema to send an meail to the mailing list about sighing up for 19.11 release team
14:08 huginn` cait: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready
14:08 wahanui i already had it that way, huginn`.
14:09 cait weird
14:09 oleonard cait: # not @?
14:09 kidclamp #action ashimema to send an meail to the mailing list about sighing up for 19.11 release team
14:09 kidclamp :-)
14:09 cait oh
14:09 cait #action ashimema to send an meail to the mailing list about sighing up for 19.11 release team
14:09 cait thx
14:09 kidclamp people do sigh when thinking of volunteering
14:09 ashimema nothing else really to say from rmaint perspective
14:10 kidclamp JesseM: lukeg?
14:10 ashimema fridolin:
14:10 fridolin yep
14:10 kidclamp wow, is 17.11 still going?
14:10 kidclamp fridolin++
14:11 fridolin it will be last release 17.11.18
14:11 fridolin version is very stable and translation is great
14:11 kidclamp #info 17.11.18 will be final release
14:11 fridolin so i propose to let it go
14:11 fridolin dont hesitate to contact me it something is mandatory
14:11 kidclamp #info 18.05 is going steady, no notes at the moment
14:11 lukeG joined #koha
14:12 * fridolin thinking about next release cycle
14:12 fridolin :D
14:12 ashimema #info Next Maint release dates are set: 29th for release, with String Freeze on 22nd (attempting to avoid Easter)
14:12 kidclamp moving on?
14:12 ashimema go for it
14:12 kidclamp #topic Updates from the QA team
14:12 Topic for #koha is now Updates from the QA team (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 April 2019)
14:13 kidclamp cait?
14:13 wahanui hmmm... cait is really good at running into things
14:13 cait here
14:13 cait with sign-offs going up the queue is getting fuller, a lot of great big new shiny things still waiting
14:13 cait @actoin QA Team to qa all the things
14:13 huginn` cait: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready
14:13 wahanui i already had it that way, huginn`.
14:13 cait every little bit helps
14:14 cait there is also quite a big number of criticals, majors and blockers that we really want to have fixed before release
14:14 cait #info 2 blockers, 1 critical and 20 majors waiting to be written, tested and QA'd
14:14 kidclamp #action QA Team to qa all the things! And then they get cookies
14:15 cait i am not good with the actions today :)
14:15 cait ashimema: josef_moravec anything to add?
14:15 cait oh khall too of course - sorry everyone i forgot
14:15 ashimema nothing really from me..
14:15 josef_moravec cait: nope, it is all for now I think
14:16 ashimema I've already said I'm slowly starting to shify my focus from 'Oh shiny new' to 'Hey, squash that bug'
14:16 * kidclamp says 'Joubu', maybe he'll appear :-)
14:16 cait i still hope for some of the big stuff to make it
14:16 cait because it won't get better with a lot of rebasing usually :)
14:16 cait but yeah, there is really not much time now for that
14:16 wizzyrea we do have that one urgent acquisitions bug
14:17 cait bug 22669
14:17 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=22669 blocker, P2, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Cannot edit received item in acquisitions with acqcreateitem set to "when placing an order"
14:17 wizzyrea yep
14:17 cait ... also we need kidclamp to push things :)
14:17 kidclamp indeed, will begin today
14:17 wizzyrea thanking you good sir
14:18 kidclamp they queue definitely started growing faster ;-)
14:18 cait ah
14:18 * wizzyrea whistles innocently
14:18 cait and there is an ongoing discussion on usability of the new cash change feature
14:18 cait does someone have the bug number?
14:18 ashimema cait and I have been competeing with each other ;)
14:18 cait it helps that i have time on my hands this week - won't be able to keep that up next week
14:18 ashimema but as fast as we QA, wizzyrea in particular fills the queue again
14:18 ashimema team++
14:18 cait team++
14:18 wizzyrea sorry not sorry
14:19 ashimema :)
14:19 cait i see it as competiton, but calling for reinforcements
14:19 thd wizzyrea++
14:19 cait moving on?
14:20 ashimema +1
14:20 kidclamp #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...)
14:20 Topic for #koha is now General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...) (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 April 2019)
14:21 kidclamp #info REST API
14:21 kidclamp #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]aka_old_checkouts Checkouts RFC
14:22 kidclamp tcohen?
14:22 wahanui tcohen is the man you want to thank
14:22 kidclamp thanks tcohen!
14:22 kidclamp :-)
14:23 josef_moravec Just needed feedback on the updated rfc
14:23 kidclamp anyone have feedback? looks like just the option for old_checkouts added?
14:24 josef_moravec kidclamp: that is the only addition
14:24 josef_moravec patch proposed here:
14:24 josef_moravec https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=17005
14:24 huginn` Bug 17005: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, josef.moravec, Signed Off , REST API: add routes to list checkouts history
14:24 thd Difficulties with earlier versions seem to have been addressed in my examination.
14:24 ashimema seems sane enough to me
14:25 kidclamp vote?
14:26 josef_moravec +1 ;)
14:27 cait would we want to give a date range for retrieving these?
14:27 kidclamp #startvote should we accept the amendment to the checkouts api rfc to allow for retrieving historical circulation info? Yes, No, Abstain
14:27 huginn` Begin voting on: should we accept the amendment to the checkouts api rfc to allow for retrieving historical circulation info? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
14:27 huginn` Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
14:27 kidclamp too slow cait :-)
14:27 cait #vote yes
14:27 cait yep
14:27 cait no blocker, was just wondering when reading
14:27 kidclamp #vote Yes
14:27 oleonard #vote abstain
14:27 kidclamp I wondered that too, it gives only issue ids, so I think further enhancement would be that maybe?
14:27 ashimema #vote Yes
14:27 wizzyrea #vote abstain
14:28 thd #vote Yes
14:28 kidclamp last call
14:28 kidclamp #endvote
14:28 huginn` Voted on "should we accept the amendment to the checkouts api rfc to allow for retrieving historical circulation info?" Results are
14:28 huginn` Yes (4): kidclamp, cait, thd, ashimema
14:28 huginn` Abstain (2): oleonard, wizzyrea
14:29 josef_moravec cait: we will have pagination available in checkouts endpoint thanks to bug 17003
14:29 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=17003 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, josef.moravec, Signed Off , REST API: add route to get checkout's renewability
14:29 kidclamp #info amendment to checkotus rfc accepted
14:29 thd cait: You should propose some range limit else there will eventually be trouble for someone.
14:29 kidclamp can you add info on the voting to the wiki josef_moravec ?
14:29 josef_moravec kidclamp: I'll do
14:30 kidclamp #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ends_endpoint_RFC Illbackends RFC
14:30 kidclamp another one :-)
14:30 ashimema AndrewIsh still here?
14:30 AndrewIsh Yes
14:30 ashimema I hadn't spotted that one ;)
14:30 AndrewIsh I've already commented on the bug
14:31 ashimema coolios
14:31 josef_moravec bug 22615
14:31 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=22615 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, josef.moravec, ASSIGNED , Add /ill_backends endpoint
14:32 lukeG joined #koha
14:33 ashimema looks reasonable enough to me
14:33 kidclamp any questions? or vote?
14:34 josef_moravec What do you think about the returned structure? What if the internal implementation of $backend->capabilities change?
14:34 AndrewIsh We'll have far bigger problems if that happens! :-)
14:35 josef_moravec AndrewIsh: thanks for info!
14:35 AndrewIsh But, if you wanted to abstract against that eventuality, it might be a nice idea
14:36 AndrewIsh But I don't think we'll be changing anything any time soon
14:37 josef_moravec I think as far as there we'll be test for that, it is OK,  I am going to write some anyway
14:38 AndrewIsh josef_moravec++
14:38 kidclamp vote time?
14:39 thd The structure returned is not specified in the wiki.
14:41 lukeG1 joined #koha
14:41 kidclamp it refers tot he structure on the bug, doesn't it thd?
14:42 thd ... or maybe structure is specified sufficiently if carefully enough compared to other behaviour where functionality is evident
14:42 thd yes, the wiki page fits the bug and more importantly other behaviour with sufficient specificity.
14:43 kidclamp calling for vote
14:43 kidclamp #startvote Should we accpt the Illbackend endpoint RFC as proposed on the wiki? Yes, No, Abstain
14:43 huginn` Begin voting on: Should we accpt the Illbackend endpoint RFC as proposed on the wiki? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain.
14:43 huginn` Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
14:43 kidclamp #vote Yes
14:43 cait #vote Yes
14:43 oleonard #vote abstain
14:43 thd #vote Yes
14:43 AndrewIsh #vote Yes
14:43 ashimema #vote Yes
14:43 calire left #koha
14:44 wizzyrea #vote abstain
14:44 kidclamp last call
14:44 kidclamp #endvote
14:44 huginn` Voted on "Should we accpt the Illbackend endpoint RFC as proposed on the wiki?" Results are
14:44 huginn` Yes (5): AndrewIsh, kidclamp, cait, ashimema, thd
14:44 huginn` Abstain (2): oleonard, wizzyrea
14:45 kidclamp #topic
14:45 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 April 2019)
14:45 kidclamp #topic #startvote Should we accpt the Illbackend endpoint RFC as proposed on the wiki? Yes, No, Abstain
14:45 Topic for #koha is now #startvote Should we accpt the Illbackend endpoint RFC as proposed on the wiki? Yes, No, Abstain (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 April 2019)
14:45 kidclamp #topic Review of coding guidelines
14:45 Topic for #koha is now Review of coding guidelines (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 April 2019)
14:45 kidclamp yeesh
14:46 kidclamp #info bug 22407 OMNIBUS: Use DBIC relations to fetch related object rather than searching for the object
14:46 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=22407 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , OMNIBUS: Use DBIC relations to fetch related object rather than searching for the object
14:46 kidclamp I think we just need to propose a guideline here?
14:46 fridolin oh nice
14:46 thd kidclamp: Did you just undo the vote?
14:46 ashimema I added a quick proposal a moment ago: https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]g.cgi?id=22407#c7
14:46 huginn` Bug 22407: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , OMNIBUS: Use DBIC relations to fetch related object rather than searching for the object
14:46 kidclamp no, i just messed up the topic :-)
14:47 ashimema that should be enough to get it going I reckon?
14:49 kidclamp sounds good to me, any discussion or objections before vote?
14:50 ashimema should we be going back and retrospectively updating relations?
14:51 * ashimema still find's it a tad crazy that we have to add these manually when dbic gives us them for free for anything that has a proper relationship defined in the db
14:51 kidclamp eventually yes, tie them to the omnibus bug
14:51 ashimema but that's a different annoyance
14:51 kidclamp vote?
14:51 thd In the absence of a retrospective update, the code will be providing bad examples.
14:52 ashimema I reckon go for the vote.. get whats there in and refine it with another vote later if we find we need a further example ;)
14:52 ashimema indeed
14:52 kidclamp ashimema++
14:53 kidclamp #startvote do we accept the new coding guideline as proposed on bug 22407comment #7?
14:53 huginn` Begin voting on: do we accept the new coding guideline as proposed on bug 22407comment #7? Valid vote options are Yes, No.
14:53 huginn` Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
14:53 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=22407 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , OMNIBUS: Use DBIC relations to fetch related object rather than searching for the object
14:53 kidclamp #vote Yes
14:54 ashimema #vote Yes
14:54 josef_moravec #vote yes
14:54 thd #vote Yes
14:54 oleonard #vote abstain
14:55 kidclamp last call
14:56 wizzyrea #vote abstain
14:57 kidclamp #endvote
14:57 huginn` Voted on "do we accept the new coding guideline as proposed on bug 22407comment #7?" Results are
14:58 kidclamp I didn't specify abstain, I think huginn got confused
14:58 kidclamp results are yes(4) abstain(2)
14:58 kidclamp #info guideline accepted
14:58 ashimema :)
14:58 kidclamp #action ashimema will add the guideline :-)
14:59 kidclamp #topic Review of coding guidelines
14:59 Topic for #koha is now Review of coding guidelines (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 April 2019)
14:59 kidclamp #topic Set time of next meeting
14:59 Topic for #koha is now Set time of next meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 April 2019)
14:59 ashimema #info guideline added :)
14:59 kidclamp April 24th 19UTC?
15:00 kidclamp #info Next meeting: 24 April 2019, 19 UTC
15:00 thd yes
15:00 kidclamp #endmeeting
15:00 ashimema works for me
15:00 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software
15:00 huginn` Meeting ended Wed Apr 10 15:00:45 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
15:00 huginn` Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-04-10-14.00.html
15:00 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]9-04-10-14.00.txt
15:00 huginn` Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]10-14.00.log.html
15:00 kidclamp thanks all!
15:00 wizzyrea thanks kidclamp
15:00 oleonard kidclamp++
15:01 josef_moravec kidclamp++
15:02 ashimema kidclamp++
15:04 josef_moravec I copied the ill backends capabilities structure returned by api from bug comment to wiki: https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]object_definition
15:07 * oleonard is tired from all that abstaining
15:08 * wizzyrea too
15:08 wizzyrea oleonard, what do you think about bug 8731, do we still need to address the multiple cover sources thing
15:08 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8731 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Holds Log to track the number of times a hold is overriden
15:08 wizzyrea or can we just suggest people use coce
15:08 wizzyrea man I'd love to run a centralised coce server.
15:09 kidclamp the bywater one is open for all
15:09 kidclamp htttps://
15:10 wizzyrea feeling like that should be on the website
15:10 thd AndrewIsh: From previous discussion, browsh with JavaScript support may be a possible future least capable client to consider supporting but I have not tested and I am uncertain about whether it would actually sidestep important disability access issues and thus fail disability access by rendering text as graphical elements instead of text.  I provide assistance to some people with very limited vision where almost everything fails them including
15:10 thd text to speech systems.
15:10 oleonard wizzyrea: I'm not sure... Do we need to handle local cover images better for Coce users?
15:10 wizzyrea I was wondering about that
15:11 wizzyrea also if we are going to link to bywater's coce, if anyone else runs one regionally we should offer that too
15:11 ashimema calendar and wiki pages updated for that meeting
15:11 wizzyrea what we need is a section on the website for the community provided services
15:11 wizzyrea thinking of mana
15:11 wizzyrea and hea
15:11 wizzyrea and coce
15:11 wizzyrea bc there's only wiki rn I think
15:12 wizzyrea ok when you are at Kohacon
15:12 wizzyrea I need you to take a group photo where you organise yourselves into the shape of a love heart
15:12 wizzyrea can you all do that?
15:12 wizzyrea <3
15:12 wizzyrea please
15:12 wizzyrea it's for the weebbbbsiiiiiteeeee
15:12 ashimema hehe
15:12 AndrewIsh thd:  Yes, indeed, accessibility is the main concern with requiring JS I think. I honestly don't know how people who have to use screenreaders manage nowadays, the internet must be a very frustrating place
15:12 wizzyrea the one from Cordoba was great
15:13 wizzyrea this current one is kind of an upside down triangle you got so close
15:13 * oleonard mails a cardboard cutout of himself to Dublin
15:13 wizzyrea hehe
15:13 wizzyrea i'll put mine in the box with yours
15:13 * oleonard typos "KohaCoin" and wonders why we never started our own cryptocurrency
15:14 wizzyrea idk there was someone doing a blockchain implementation of a library circulation system
15:15 oleonard Bleah
15:16 thd AndrewIsh: Sadly, multibillion dollar companies with extraordinary commitments to disability access frequently fail to follow common disability access guidelines in their own disability access interfaces.
15:17 AndrewIsh thd:  :(
15:18 ashimema email about roles sent
15:18 ashimema right.. that's my actions done :)
15:25 wizzyrea https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3150 so if you are converting a notice to the notice system, here's your omnibus bug :)
15:25 huginn` Bug 3150: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Text of any email sent from Koha should be editable from web interface
15:25 fridolin left #koha
15:40 wizzyrea gross bug 8132
15:40 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8132 critical, P4, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , batch delete tool deletes items with holds on them
15:40 * wizzyrea takes a moment for all of the orphan holds
16:08 oleonard Koha-US conference in Pueblo Colorado this year... Anyone ever been there?
16:10 oleonard It's only a 20 hour drive from here. I'll stop and pick you up wizzyrea
16:10 * cait is never sure how you Americans mean this
16:10 cait only 20 hours
16:11 oleonard To me that sounds unreasonable, so I was joking.
16:19 magnuse on the floss weekly podcast, the question "when will this start to use blockchain technology" has become a standing joke :-)
16:26 tcohen was there a dev meeting today???
16:26 * tcohen blames google calendar
16:28 vfernandes how I can improve performance to open 1 record details with more than 100 itens/holdings?
16:29 tcohen Add item prefetch capabilities to Koha::Biblio
16:30 vfernandes 100 holdings -> 7 seconds
16:31 vfernandes 200 holdings -> 14 seconds
16:31 vfernandes tcohen: how?
16:32 tcohen is the question 'how can I patch Koha to improve performance'?
16:32 tcohen or you just want a workaround for your setup?
16:32 tcohen I ask this because it is not *that* trivial
16:33 tcohen and needs coding
16:33 vfernandes tcohen: a need a workaround to my setup
16:34 vfernandes *i need
16:35 tcohen there's an effort on bug 19884, which I don't like that much but could work
16:35 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=19884 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, glasklas, Needs Signoff , Improve performance of GetItem
16:35 tcohen for you
16:38 wizzyrea joined #koha
16:38 vfernandes the problem can be related to many things: get record itens, get item information or get item loan status
16:48 ashimema Good thing we have that new guidline about prefetch in Koha objects then aye tcohen
16:51 cait can someone explain it to me? :)
17:03 ashimema Sure
17:03 ashimema How low level do you want cait ?
17:04 ashimema Do you understand what a dbic resultset is.. in that it's a query plan and now a set of results?
17:04 cait pretty low level
17:06 ashimema Right.. so at its most basic a dbic ->search call is akin to ->prepare(SELECT * FROM table WHERE stuff).
17:07 cait ok
17:07 ashimema Then when you do stuff with it you hit the db with the above call
17:07 ashimema Dbic allows SQL JOINS via what it calls 'relationships'
17:10 cait ok
17:10 ashimema So.. depending on when you call 'next' or other methods that give back actual results it will amend the SELECT * above to being a JOIN or subselect or if your calling the for the related data late in the flow a new SELECT * FROM table2 WHERE = id
17:11 ashimema Can you see there you might end up with second db hits depending on where you've called the givee related data call
17:12 ashimema For this case, if you know ahead of time you will want things from two related tables.. borrowers and issue perhaps.. you can ask dbic to get both in one call in the original call
17:12 cait ok
17:13 ashimema But... We fundamentally broke that with the way we did relationships in Koha::Objects.. so the new guideline gets people to restore that dbic behaviour
17:13 ashimema I've not explained that well.. sorry, also cooking right now
17:13 ashimema I'll have another go tomorrow if you like.. or feel free to quiz me any time
17:13 cait it's ok
17:13 cait thank you :)
17:13 ashimema Relationships tooke ages to get my head around the first time
17:13 cait i might do that after having anothre look at the exmaples
17:14 ashimema And even longer to work it out after we confused matter by adding Koha objects on top
17:14 cait but we are on a good way now?
17:15 ashimema Better with the guideline than without yes
17:16 ashimema Though we still need to go through all the objects and check for breakages from before the guideline existed
17:16 ashimema I might make that a task for myself tomorrow
17:16 reiveune bye
17:16 reiveune left #koha
17:16 cait maybe a patch doing that would be good for explaining too
17:25 tcohen cait: Koha::Patron->category does that
17:25 tcohen but you need to first get the Koha::Patron object like
17:26 tcohen my $patron = Koha::Patrons->find( $patron_id, { prefetch => 'categories' } )
17:26 tcohen I'm not being precise, is just a mock
18:34 paul_p joined #koha
18:41 wizzyrea oleonard, thanks so much for fixing that language footer thing
18:41 wizzyrea that used to drive the catalyst frontend folks MAD.
18:41 oleonard :(
18:41 oleonard I only just noticed it :( :(
18:42 wizzyrea I always thought it was intentional!
18:47 oleonard wizzyrea: Tell the frontend folks that the next time something drives them crazy they should bug me about it
18:49 wizzyrea if I worked there, I would
18:49 oleonard I mean use your secret back channels
18:49 wizzyrea oh those
18:50 wizzyrea i don't mean to be daft, but the language selection seems to be in the header now?
18:50 * wizzyrea wonders what she's doing wrong
18:51 oleonard OpacLangSelectorMode
18:51 wizzyrea alternate question, why is that one not in i18n
18:51 wizzyrea lol
18:52 wizzyrea (not related tho)
18:52 lisette joined #koha
18:53 oleonard Hi lisette
18:53 oleonard Sorry to have missed the Koha-US meeting today
18:54 lisette Hi oleonard
18:54 wahanui hi oleopard
18:54 * wizzyrea giggles
18:55 wizzyrea oleonard++ excellent fixing
18:55 lisette We announced the conference location and dates (Pueblo CO September 18-21)  and that was a lot of what we talked about today. We had a couple of new people who came, which is always nice.
19:01 * oleonard hopes to make it this year
19:41 andreashm joined #koha
19:45 kathryn joined #koha
19:52 * cait waves at lisette
19:54 cait wizzyrea: can you help me with the test plan for 18387?
19:54 cait bug 18387
19:54 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=18387 normal, P5 - low, ---, nick, Signed Off , 404 errors on page causes SCO user to be logged out
19:54 cait was wondering how you triggered the error page
19:56 cait oleonard++
19:59 cait i wonder if it also fixes bug 11057
19:59 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11057 minor, P5 - low, ---, bgkriegel, In Discussion , Bootstrap theme: Don't hide language chooser below the fold
20:00 oleonard It's a different thing. That request would have the language menu fixed to the bottom of the screen no matter where you scroll.
20:01 oleonard It would probably be fairly easy to make that a system preference...
20:01 cait hm not usre i'd like that, trying to remember what the issue was
20:02 * andreashm walks in through the back-door, stumbling on the cat on the way in
20:02 cait i thoguht the issue was that the powered by koha moved behind the language bar
20:03 * cait picks up the cat to keep it safe
20:03 andreashm =)
20:04 andreashm cait: did you see that bug 14957 is moving again?
20:04 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14957 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, eivin, Signed Off , Write protecting MARC fields based on source of import
20:04 cait andreashm: i saw - hope i can get to it
20:04 andreashm cool!
20:04 cait fighting a cold since yesterday so the difficulty level might be a bit too high right now
20:06 cait love bug 22680 :)
20:06 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=22680 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Passed QA , OPAC language footer not positioned correctly
20:06 andreashm cait: another one? unlucky!
20:07 cait the last has been a while... that's what you do on vacations, right?
20:12 andreashm =)
20:12 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 22600: Schema updates <[…]3ee6700e697a4adc8>
20:12 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 22600: DBRev <[…]ae125abfa9f1109ee>
20:12 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 22512: DBRev <[…]68dccf7b293d18dce>
20:12 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 22675: Fix SCO behaviour on non-existent barcodes <[…]56512c29c0b2030b1>
20:12 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 22600: (QA follow-up) Raise an exception on missing interface param <[…]ee1d03686d3f96e04>
20:12 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 22553: Unchecking a subpermission does not uncheck the top level permission <[…]8b5ee1622dc862787>
20:12 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 22068: (QA follow-up) Return meaningful error codes <[…]a6bc1152f96713597>
20:12 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 22646: Fix use of PrivacyPolicyURL <[…]38c8516444a10f24c>
20:12 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 22618: Move tests to t/db_dependent/Acquisition.t <[…]f38beb9f7be20f4a1>
20:12 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 22600: Update Tests adding 'interface' as needed <[…]c2cb17efbeeaee093>
20:12 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 22288: Correct item search in batchMod by barcode file <[…]95fe305292b886dda>
20:12 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 22641: Use raw filter on html slip <[…]ac6ab35373af739b3>
20:12 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 21013: Missing itemtype for checkut makes patron summary print explode <[…]f7b4b46799a241ff9>
20:12 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 22295: Make Elasticsearch query builder group multi-term queries <[…]cbbca4ea01d7a8077>
20:12 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 22390: Never copy items if original order has been created from a subscription <[…]b26ed09af83a15d15>
20:12 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 22390: (bug 15184 follow-up) Use aqorders.subscriptionid instead of biblio.serial <[…]130062917a0a23484>
20:13 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 22068: Prevent patrons to cancel article request they did not create <[…]d9b8727b28a46aa7c>
20:13 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 17978: Unit tests for changes <[…]306c380214d895c4e>
20:13 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 17978: Check if hold can be placed before placing on <[…]7e6d2328899fc4259>
20:13 huginn` News from kohagit: Bug 17978: Circ rules will not limit holds <[…]c9989d80bdf2c0939>
20:13 oleonard wheee
20:15 cait yay :)
20:16 ashimema Yikes... Catch up time in the morning.
20:18 cait there is more to come i think
20:30 ashimema I'm over the moon with whats already gone in 😊
20:30 ashimema Shiny shiny
20:30 cait :)
20:39 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D9 build #702: SUCCESS in 25 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_Master_D9/702/
20:40 lukeG joined #koha
20:45 davidnind cait++ Using holiday time to work on Koha
20:48 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U18 build #196: STILL UNSTABLE in 33 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_U18/196/
20:50 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D8 build #208: UNSTABLE in 37 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_Master_D8/208/
20:50 cait oleonard: still around?
20:51 oleonard Yes for some reason
20:51 cait :)
20:51 cait i am looking at the non-xslt removal
20:51 cait on bug 12561 there are some bugs listing syprefs not working without xslt
20:51 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12561 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Omnibus: Deprecate non-XSLT detail and result views
20:51 cait what should we do about them?
20:51 cait OpacPopugAuthorsSearch is an example
20:52 oleonard My understanding was that no bugs blocked the removal of the non-XSLT detail view in the staff client, and that's all I did
20:52 cait popup...
20:52 cait aah staff
20:52 oleonard Sorry if I didn't make that clear
20:52 cait probably me not reading right
20:53 cait btw... after such a long time i think we should just remove the prefs and from OPAC too
20:53 cait but will test the first patch now :)
20:57 cait oleonard: should we include a database update setting the pref to defualt for those that have null?
20:57 cait empty i mean
20:57 oleonard I included that at first, but since either value works I took it out
20:58 cait hm I tihnk it woudl be more consistnet
20:58 cait also gives another note in the database update about the change
20:59 oleonard Maybe we should update the db setting the pref to "" where the setting is "default" and make null the default XLST
21:00 cait I'd be ok with that too
21:00 cait i think i have a slight preference for default, just because it will match and show the change
21:01 cait match the other prefs
21:02 oleonard Yeah
21:03 oleonard Okay I can add the update
21:14 davidnind left #koha

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