IRC log for #koha, 2017-12-13

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:45 Francesca joined #koha
00:51 tcohen @wunder cordoba, argentina
00:51 huginn` tcohen: Error: No such location could be found.
00:53 tcohen huginn`: I swear it exists
00:53 huginn` tcohen: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready
00:54 wizzyrea the weather bot is kinda broken I think
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05:29 jenkins Project Koha_17.11_D8 build #11: FAILURE in 11 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_17.11_D8/11/
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06:11 Jsasse bag: online?
06:11 wahanui well, online is a big place :)
06:17 cait @later tell Joubu can you add 17.11 to bugzilla plz?
06:17 huginn` cait: The operation succeeded.
06:23 jmsasse htop
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06:50 LibraryClaire morning #koha
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07:08 jmsasse Can anyone help me with plack? It's eating up all my cpu resources on my koha server.
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07:26 reiveune joined #koha
07:27 reiveune hello
07:40 rosie joined #koha
07:40 rosie Hi, I am  hoping someone can help me.. I have added titles to KOHA but they are not showing up in the cataloge..What have I done wrong?
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07:49 alex_a bonjour
07:49 wahanui bidet, alex_a
07:49 fridolin hieeeee
07:55 clrh hello
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08:17 gaetan_B hello
08:21 magnuse ~~~
08:23 josef_moravec morning #koha
08:27 mtj hi folks, anyone seen this error before...?
08:27 mtj ==> ./plack-error.log <==
08:27 mtj Error while loading /etc/koha/plack.psgi: Can't load application from file "/usr/share/koha/api/v1/": Can't locate object method "cache_dir" via package "Swagger2::SchemaValidator" at /usr/share/perl5/ line 41.
08:33 cait joined #koha
08:33 cait good morning #koha!
08:34 josef_moravec mtj: what is the version of Swagger and JSON::Validator
08:34 josef_moravec hi cait
08:34 josef_moravec cait:  just writing reply to your questions ;)
08:35 mtj libswagger2-perl                      0.77-1~koha1
08:35 mtj hiya josef_moravec, cait :)
08:35 mtj libjson-validator-perl                0.97-1~kohadev1
08:36 greenjimll joined #koha
08:36 mtj i seem to have pulled some newer koha deps, during a koha 16.11 debian 8.9 -> 8.10 upgrade
08:37 mtj ..plack seems unhappy now :'(
08:39 cait josef_moravec: thx a lot :)
08:40 josef_moravec mtj: cache_dir was removed in JSON::Validator 0.93
08:40 josef_moravec see[…]ob/master/Changes
08:40 josef_moravec so, downgrading it could help
08:40 josef_moravec newer Koha uses openapi plugin for mojolicious
08:41 mtj awesome info josef_moravec++
08:45 magnuse benjamin++ for signing off on rest api stuff
08:47 josef_moravec benjamin++
08:54 cait benjamin++ and josef_moravec++ :)
08:55 cait and hi mtj!
08:59 cait jajm++
09:03 mtj hey cait
09:04 mtj josef_moravec: thanks for your help, we fixed the problem :0)
09:04 josef_moravec mtj: great!
09:05 LibraryClaire Anyone know what might cause the software error: Not an ARRAY reference at /home/vagrant/kohaclone/C4/ line 1134.
09:06 LibraryClaire I am getting it when I enter barcodes for batch item modification
09:06 LibraryClaire on master
09:16 Francesca joined #koha
09:16 josef_moravec cait: answered ;)
09:19 cait reading, than you!
09:20 magnuse LibraryClaire: what does line 1134 look like in your version?
09:21 LibraryClaire foreach( @{ $mss->{$kohafield} } ) {
09:22 LibraryClaire my @retval;
09:22 LibraryClaire foreach( @{ $mss->{$kohafield} } ) {
09:22 LibraryClaire push @retval, $_->{tagfield}, $_->{tagsubfield};
09:25 magnuse $mss comes from "my $mss = GetMarcSubfieldStructure( '' );" so maybe something wrong in the default framework?
09:25 LibraryClaire yeah, thought I haven't actually changed it as far as I am aware...
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09:26 josef_moravec LibraryClaire: strange, but do you have defined default marc framework (just guessing
09:26 LibraryClaire there is a default MARC Framework, it is the one that is already in devbox. I haven't touched it
09:28 LibraryClaire I am sure it was working previously as I was testing the same bug before and didn't have this problem
09:31 Nemo_bis Is there a way to export/import libraries and groups ([…]#libraries-groups ) from the web interface?
09:31 cait Nemo_bis: not atm
09:32 cait if you are familiar with SQL you coudl do it that way
09:32 Nemo_bis I am but I don't have access
09:32 Nemo_bis I guess we'll migrate those manually
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09:33 Nemo_bis Should I add libraries before I import records which reference those libraries?
09:35 josef_moravec Nemo_bis: yes, you should
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09:35 saa is is tpossible to find out missing barcodes in koha
09:36 saa hw to generate such numbers
09:36 josef_moravec saa: what do you mean by "missing"?
09:36 saa means those numbers which are not assigned as barcodes in koha
09:37 saa if our barcode range is 1-10000 can we get a list where some numbers as barcodes not available in koha at all
09:37 saa in this range
09:37 cait you could write a report
09:38 cait select * from items where barcode is not between 1 and 1000 (untested)
09:38 cait Nemo_bis: if you import items, yes, you should :)
09:43 Francesca joined #koha
09:45 saa can i get reports correct syntx
09:45 saa i dont knw hw to write one
09:46 cait did the one above give you an error?
09:46 josef_moravec cait, saa: this will not work - basically sql is not very good at searching missing things
09:47 josef_moravec you could use something like:
09:47 josef_moravec[…]umbering-in-mysql
09:47 josef_moravec SELECT (i1.barcode + 1) as gap_starts_at,
09:47 josef_moravec (SELECT MIN(i3.barcode) -1 FROM items i3 WHERE i3.barcode > i1.barcode) as gap_ends_at
09:47 josef_moravec FROM items i1
09:47 josef_moravec WHERE
09:47 josef_moravec i1.barcode between 311200027300 AND 311200027400
09:47 josef_moravec AND NOT EXISTS (SELECT i2.barcode FROM items i2 WHERE i2.barcode = i1.barcode + 1)
09:47 josef_moravec HAVING gap_ends_at IS NOT NULL
09:48 josef_moravec remove line: "i1.barcode between 311200027300 AND 311200027400" to get all gaps
09:50 cait :)
09:51 cait wow
09:52 cait wondering if you could also turn mine around... look for items with barcode in range and then compare that to items (itemnumber not in...)
09:53 cait probably would take a while
09:54 josef_moravec cait: could work too ;)
09:56 josef_moravec cait: no, it will not work, you do not have any row, you need to compare the rows with some number range, this is the most complicated part
09:57 LibraryClaire magnuse, josef_moravec: thanks for the tips. No idea what was going on but a restart_all seemed to help...
09:59 saa The following error was encountered: The database returned the following error: You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'remove line: "i1.barcode between 1 AND 200000" LIMIT 0, 20' at line 1 Please check the log for further details.
09:59 saa i got error
09:59 saa i gave range of 1 to 200000
10:01 cait you copied too much
10:01 cait remove line: - delete that
10:01 josef_moravec saa: exactly as cait said, the last line was comment for you, not an SQL line
10:01 saa yes sorry
10:01 saa i realised
10:01 saa i removed and now running the quer
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10:04 josef_moravec For the reference: https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]arcode_in_a_range
10:34 cait josef_moravec++
10:34 cait :)
10:34 paul_p joined #koha
10:35 cait hi paul_p
10:35 paul_p hi cait & al
10:38 eythian hi
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11:20 d_antonakis joined #koha
11:55 Joubu cait: done (17.11 added to bz)
11:58 cait thx!
11:58 cait i am adding it to the wiki page
11:58 Joubu LibraryClaire: the problem you had with the framework certainly was because you did not restart memcached
11:58 Joubu we changed the way they are stored in the cache, so the cache must be flushed
11:58 LibraryClaire Joubu, yes my version updated this morning and I forgot -.-
11:59 Joubu and memcached + plack HAVE TO BE RESTARTED when the code is changed ;)
11:59 LibraryClaire :D
11:59 cait Joubu: https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]se_tasks#Bugzilla
12:01 Joubu cait: + RMaints: create an account to jenkins, send ssh pubkey to Chris for push access (branch specific+security repo), send ssh pubkey to Galen for access to
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12:12 oleonard Hi all
12:12 josef_moravec hi oleonard
12:12 wahanui hi dear loon
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12:35 jenkins Project Koha_17.11_D8 build #12: STILL FAILING in 11 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_17.11_D8/12/
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12:42 Joubu tcohen: ^ is it out of disk space related?
12:45 mtj hi Joubu, disk looks ok on docker3
12:45 LibraryClaire hi oleonard
12:45 wahanui hi dear loon
12:46 LibraryClaire wahanui is mean today
12:46 kidclamp wahanui: botsnack poison!
12:46 wahanui :)
12:46 kidclamp still seems happy
12:46 LibraryClaire hi kidclamp
12:46 * kidclamp waves
12:47 cait Joubu ok will add
12:47 mtj folks, anyone seen this odd ldap error after upgrading to 17.05.06...
12:47 mtj ==> ./plack-error.log <==
12:47 mtj LDAP search failed to return object : 000004DC: LdapErr: DSID-0C0907C2, comment: In order to perform this operation a successful bind must be completed on the connection., data 0, v2580 at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 102.
12:48 kidclamp are you doing anonymous bind or bind by auth mtj?
12:48 tcohen Joubu once I get to the office I'll take care
12:49 mtj hi kidclamp, auth_by_bind
12:50 kidclamp do you have a user and pass section defined?
12:50 kidclamp bug 18947
12:50 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=18947 major, P5 - low, ---, nick, NEW , Unexpected Active Directory LDAP authentication failure mode
12:51 cait failure mode? :)
12:52 cait Joubu: added
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12:56 pastebot "mtj" at pasted "ldap example" (17 lines) at
12:57 mtj kidclamp:  is that the correct format? ^
12:57 mtj <user>x</user>
12:57 mtj <pass>x</pass>
12:58 kidclamp should be
13:02 mtj aah, memcached restart fixed it
13:02 Joubu !
13:02 mtj kidclamp++ thank you sooo much for your help :0)
13:02 kidclamp np
13:03 * LibraryClaire shakes her fist at memcached
13:03 mtj gosh, just when you think you've seen it all, hey ...
13:03 kidclamp memcached restart - never hurts, almost always helps
13:04 nengard joined #koha
13:04 Joubu first question?
13:04 wahanui "What are you trying to do?" or "What is the goal?"
13:05 Joubu first question is also Did you clear the restart_all (plack+memcached)?
13:05 wahanui okay, Joubu.
13:05 Joubu erk
13:05 Joubu first question is also Did you restart_all (plack+memcached)?
13:05 wahanui okay, Joubu.
13:05 Joubu now you are broken wahanui
13:05 Joubu first question?
13:05 wahanui "What are you trying to do?" or "What is the goal?"
13:05 Joubu ok nevermind
13:09 mtj Joubu: i just pm'd you some info
13:14 cait does someone know which of the 3 universities in lyon have koha? is it all?
13:15 Joubu Lyon 2 and Lyon 3, at least
13:15 cait that's what we found so far, so 1 not?
13:18 Joubu[…]terms=&valider=Ok
13:18 Joubu nope, but they should...
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13:31 cait heh thx
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13:51 Joubu dev meeting in 10min
13:51 Freddy_Enrique Good mornign everyone
13:51 Freddy_Enrique Ji Joubu
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14:00 kidclamp Meeting time!
14:00 wahanui mmm meat
14:00 kidclamp #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 13 December 2017
14:00 huginn` Meeting started Wed Dec 13 14:00:42 2017 UTC.  The chair is kidclamp. Information about MeetBot at
14:00 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:00 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 13 December 2017)
14:00 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_13_december_2017'
14:00 kidclamp #topic Introductions
14:00 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
14:00 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 13 December 2017)
14:00 greenjimll #info Jon Knight, Loughborough University
14:01 kidclamp #info Nick Clemens,ByWater Solutions
14:01 LibraryClaire #info Claire Gravely, BSZ Germany
14:01 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart
14:01 josef_moravec #info Josef Moravec, Municipal Library UO, Czech Republic
14:02 Joubu rmaints?
14:02 wahanui hmmm... rmaints is kidclamp (17.11), fridolin (17.05), rangi (16.11)
14:02 fridolin #info Fridolin Somers, Biblibre France
14:02 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City (In California for the end of the year)
14:02 tuxayo #Info Victor Grousset, Biblibre, France
14:03 Joubu qa_team is alex_a jajm marcelr khall kidclamp tcohen josef_moravec
14:03 Joubu qa_team?
14:03 wahanui qa_team is alex_a jajm marcelr khall kidclamp tcohen josef_moravec
14:03 jajm #info Julian Maurice, BibLibre
14:03 Joubu I will try not to abuse of these 2 "aliases" :)
14:03 kellym joined #koha
14:03 kidclamp #topic Announcements
14:03 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 13 December 2017)
14:03 kidclamp anyone have things?
14:04 thd Yes
14:04 Joubu #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]_13_December_2017
14:04 alex_a #info Alex Arnaud, Biblibre France
14:04 alex_a qa_team?
14:04 wahanui qa_team is alex_a jajm marcelr khall kidclamp tcohen josef_moravec
14:04 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
14:04 alex_a :)
14:04 thd Today is my happy birthday.  Sadly, I will miss the next meeting for the party.
14:05 kidclamp thd++
14:05 kidclamp happy birthday
14:05 greenjimll Happy Birthday
14:05 kidclamp #topic Update from the Release manager (18.05)
14:05 Topic for #koha is now Update from the Release manager (18.05) (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 13 December 2017)
14:06 fridolin happy birthday thd
14:06 * kidclamp whispers 'that's you Joubu'
14:06 Joubu nothing special for me, I have started 17.12 pushing quite lot of stuffs
14:06 Joubu and will continue like that, as far as the QAers send me stuffs to review
14:07 kidclamp #info Joubu is pushing all the things. QA more stuff, more stuff gets pushed.
14:07 Joubu as it's the beginning of the release cycle, let me know if you want to work on something big/special
14:07 clrh #info Claire Hernandez, BibLibre
14:07 * fridolin have seen there is in master a new dependancy on ES perl lib
14:07 Joubu and/or need help on specific works
14:07 fridolin not yet in koha-perldeps
14:08 fridolin this will brake sandboxes, one must install manually
14:08 Joubu I'd like to have a koha-es with zebra-equivalent features for 18.05
14:08 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries, USA
14:08 Joubu or at least to know what is work to be done to reach that state
14:09 kidclamp #info let Joubu know if you have projects so you can coordinate on what is needed
14:09 Joubu there is a wiki page created by Nick, you are pleased to add items to this list
14:09 kidclamp we have ES section later on too
14:09 cait koha-es?
14:09 Joubu koha / Elastic
14:09 greenjimll Wiki page URL?
14:09 cait ah.. not spanish, elastic search
14:09 cait *hides*
14:09 fridolin yep, juste saying koha-perldeps must be corrected
14:09 fridolin cause dependancy is mandatory even for zebra install
14:09 * oleonard hopes Bug 19474 will get some interest
14:09 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=19474 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Convert staff client CSS to SCSS
14:09 Joubu kidclamp: do you have the wiki page link?
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14:10 clrh so this page : https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]sticsearch_status I'll add things we saw or questionned last week
14:10 kidclamp #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ticsearch_status_.28Updated_2017-12-07.29 ES status
14:10 Joubu yes thanks clrh
14:10 kidclamp yes please clrh - anyone should add or update
14:10 Joubu in my goal for 18.05: push all what oleonard write to move JS code (we will talk about that later)
14:11 kidclamp moving on
14:11 kidclamp sorry :-)
14:11 Joubu wait
14:11 Joubu I'd like to do some benchmarking (last ones are quite old)
14:11 cait Joubu++
14:11 Joubu and write more Selenium tests
14:11 * Joubu searches a link
14:12 Joubu see bug 19243 for selenium tests (and related)
14:12 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=19243 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, alexbuckley, ASSIGNED , Selenium test for testing the administration module functionality
14:12 kidclamp #info ES, JS updates, benchmarking, selenium tests are some golas for 18.05
14:12 Joubu I will also push/support tcohen's work (and others) on REST API, ofc
14:12 Joubu more or less the big lines for 18.05
14:12 fridolin API++
14:12 Joubu That's all for me
14:13 LibraryClaire Joubu++
14:13 Joubu And the manual! :)
14:13 kidclamp #info also REST API and manual
14:13 Joubu will talk about that during the next doc meeting
14:13 kidclamp Joubu doesn't think small
14:13 kidclamp #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers
14:13 Topic for #koha is now Updates from the Release Maintainers (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 13 December 2017)
14:13 cait Joubu++ ;)
14:13 josef_moravec Joubu+
14:13 josef_moravec +
14:14 kidclamp I will be pushing stuff next two days and will announce string freeze for 12/15 to stick to release on 22nd
14:14 kidclamp #info 17.11 string freeze on 15th, pushing things now
14:14 kholt joined #koha
14:14 kidclamp fridolin?
14:14 wahanui fridolin is busy at the moment, I asked him to backport the bug fix
14:14 * fridolin RMaint 17.05
14:15 tuxayo tests++
14:15 fridolin I'm now waiting on 17.11 aka stable pushes
14:15 fridolin althow i have some late patches in master i can backport
14:15 fridolin but no major ones normaly
14:15 kidclamp #info 17.05 waiting on 17.11 and pushing some others
14:16 Joubu to say something that is maybe not public: We will have secutiry fixes pushed in stable releases regularly. We are not going to announce them as "security releases", because the fixes are not critical. But we are going to follow a security workflow, in the sense of the fixes will not be published before the releases.
14:16 fridolin ++
14:17 Joubu We (RM+RMaints) are trying to work closely and in sync. The workflow is not perfectly defined yet...
14:17 kidclamp rangi si probably not here but he is an rmaint and we like him
14:18 kidclamp #topic Updates from the QA team
14:18 Topic for #koha is now Updates from the QA team (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 13 December 2017)
14:18 thd Joubu: Announcing after release seems to be an important part of "security workflow".
14:18 cait I have sent some questions to the QA team members to see what we can do to improve things, when people usually QA, how much time they can spend, and what topics we have not covered
14:19 cait I got some answers already - thx!
14:19 cait what we already see is that auth patches get stuck often and easily
14:19 cait because we lack the environment to test them with
14:19 cait would it be possible that we have a cas test server to access somewhere? LDAP? Shibb?
14:20 cait it's also about documentation, if we had simple tutorials on how to set that up, maybe they would be not as hard to tackle
14:20 Joubu (thd: the idea was to keep "security releases" when it's really needed, not to announce releases as "very important" every months)
14:20 thd cait++
14:20 josef_moravec cait++
14:20 kidclamp ldap testing is possible, there are test servers out there
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14:21 cait so if someone wnat to help out there, that would be great
14:21 kidclamp shib is harder because you need koha accessible from outside and https
14:21 cait yeah, not doable with a kohadev, which rules me outmost of the time
14:21 Joubu I'd like to repeat that the severity should be used when you pick a patch to SO or QA
14:21 Joubu we have 21 majors
14:21 Joubu 6 waiting for QA
14:21 cait kidclamp: could you info my need for poeple helping with auth servers and tutorials?
14:22 Joubu there is no much sense to QA enhs when major bugs can be pushed and backported
14:22 kidclamp #info QA needs help with auth testing and tutorials is an area where we need more people
14:22 cait please also make sure you rebase/react as fast as possible once someone has started to qa your patches
14:22 kidclamp #info Reminder to hit majors and criticals before enhancements please
14:22 cait it's hard to start over when a lot of time is between testing and it eats our resources
14:22 greenjimll With SAML2 authentication its worth bearing in mind there's more than Shibboleth. We use simplesamlphp as our IdP for example.
14:23 kidclamp #info Cait sent a questionaire to QAers, please respond so we can plan how to cover all topics
14:23 cait and also... if you are interested to join QA - please let me know/sign up for vote at the next meeting, even if you just want to help with some specific part
14:23 kidclamp #info if interested in joining QA please let cait know or add to the next meeting agenda
14:23 ashimema we have saml2 working for simplesaml, shibboleth, athens and adfs idps
14:24 greenjimll Yep, works on our SAML2 IdP... but worth considering if testing patches.
14:24 kidclamp there are always small easy bugs to QA
14:24 cait #info looking for someone to help ease testing for Shibboleth, CAS and LDAP
14:24 kidclamp ashimema, write ups for any of those would be amazing
14:24 kidclamp the shib wiki is pretty well done
14:24 Joubu (and to rewrite C4::Auth)
14:24 kidclamp (not that I still don't muck it up)
14:24 fridolin rewrite C4::Auth ++
14:25 fridolin (but not by me)
14:25 cait #info Please rebase/answer questins from QA quickly, so things can be finished quickly once started
14:25 cait that's it from me - but others maybe?
14:26 kidclamp #info don't forget to assign yourself as QAer when looking at a bug
14:26 * jajm has nothing to add
14:26 kidclamp nothing more here
14:26 kidclamp #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...)
14:27 Topic for #koha is now General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...) (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 13 December 2017)
14:27 Joubu I am thinking of bypassing QA step for some patches, but I really would like to avoid that. There are 150+ bugs in SO
14:27 cait kidclamp: thx, i forgot that myself!
14:27 Joubu could we organise a "QA day" before end of the year?
14:28 kidclamp is a god idea, sprints have worked well
14:28 cait so far QAers seem to have a preference for Fridays
14:28 kidclamp s/god/good
14:28 cait bt next week might be too close to christmas?
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14:29 cait jajm: kidclamp - what do you think?
14:29 josef_moravec next week would be ok for me ;)
14:29 kidclamp can't hurt to try? I will be here
14:29 jajm i won't be there from 18th to 29th, but i can do a full QA day this friday
14:29 Joubu let's see after the meeting. For the last one we use a doodle-like page to know the availabilities
14:30 cait sorry josef_moravec!
14:30 cait Joubu: this year is a bit hard :)
14:30 cait i will send a suggestion to qa team tonight
14:30 * oleonard will be around next week to help make sure the SO list doesn't get too short
14:30 kidclamp #action cait will try to arrange QA sprint before end of year
14:31 thd Almost anything should be tried including many other bad practises before actually bypassing QA.
14:32 greenjimll Bribing QA team with cake?
14:32 cait i agree with Joubu we need to get the numbers down right now
14:32 cait but we will try to do it properly first ;)
14:32 cait 150 is pretty hard to manage and lots probably will have to be rebased
14:33 kidclamp so just put them all 'doesn't apply'
14:33 kidclamp :-)
14:33 josef_moravec is the bot which made it for us still alive?
14:34 Joubu it has been disabled
14:34 jajm greenjimll, try with beer instead ;)
14:34 cait people complained about it :(
14:35 Joubu we could ask rangi, but not sure it is useful
14:35 Joubu I prefer someone ask me a rebase than a bot
14:35 Joubu a bot will not SO it, so I rebased it for nothing
14:35 cait valid point
14:36 kidclamp sure, but a tester can't test if doesn't apply
14:36 josef_moravec agree, that is good reason
14:36 josef_moravec it was to Joubu
14:36 kidclamp maybe have it only check bugs that are awaiting QA?
14:36 Joubu a tester is supposed to test when rebased, right? :)
14:37 kidclamp ideally
14:37 greenjimll What about a script that could tell the QA team which bugs pending QA don't apply cleanly, rather than the bug assignee?
14:38 kidclamp I think maybe QA and bot is good for next meeting? We havea few other topics for today we should cover
14:39 Joubu I'd suggest to move on, we have a long topic list today
14:39 Joubu we can continue the discussion on the ML if people has ideas
14:39 cait i have a quick question?
14:39 Joubu yep?
14:39 wahanui yep.
14:40 Joubu yep!
14:40 cait I was thinking similar to the questions I asked the QAers
14:40 cait shoudl we have a wiki page where we can collect 'experts' on topics and apis?
14:40 cait for people to sign up to if they want
14:40 Joubu like the "module maintainers"? :-/
14:40 cait less formal
14:40 cait just a... i am interested in those topics
14:40 Joubu yes we can try
14:41 kidclamp #action cait will add wiki page to list topics of interest/expertise to assist in SO and QA
14:41 Joubu it's basically writing down what we more or less know already. So yes it's good to have that list on the wiki
14:41 cait also maybe good for newcomers
14:41 kidclamp is tcohen here/needed for rest api disc?
14:42 cait pm me if you have a good name suggestion for the page
14:43 kidclamp #topic REST api
14:43 Topic for #koha is now REST api (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 13 December 2017)
14:43 kidclamp from the agenda: Proposal to vote for: allowing devs working on the REST api implementation to change attribute names so they are more meaningfull for api consumers. For example, rename 'borrowernumber' for 'patron_id'. Pros: we can provide a readable API spec, and people unfamiliar to Koha internals will have better time using the api. Cons: some people might be using the current (3) endpoints and would need to change some
14:43 kidclamp attribute names.
14:43 greenjimll With the REST API attribute name changes, will there be support for existing attribute names to preserve existing scripts, or is it viewed as a clean break?
14:44 Joubu "Cons: some people might be using the current (3) endpoints and would need to change some attribute names"
14:44 greenjimll So clean break then?
14:44 josef_moravec yes
14:45 Joubu in that case we should change the version
14:45 thd Is the suggestion implying that the names currently in use in Koha are poorly chosen and should eventually be changed themselves?
14:45 Joubu was not it the purpose of the v1/v2...
14:45 Joubu ?
14:45 greenjimll That's usually the use of REST API versioning.
14:45 josef_moravec Yes, version change would be the ideal solution probably
14:45 jajm Joubu, yep, if you break compatibility, you should change the version
14:46 greenjimll Often older versions are kept (for a while at least) for backward compatibility
14:47 greenjimll And to smooth transition for external developers
14:47 thd There is some history behind some variable names in Koha for wider applicability than the name which might be most common.
14:47 Joubu I would like to have the list on the wiki, patron_id or user_id, etc.
14:47 thd Joubu++
14:47 Joubu thd: we are talking about borrowers/members/patrons/users
14:47 Joubu for instance...
14:48 thd I understand the topic of discussion and the history behind Koha's current naming choice.
14:48 kidclamp #info general discussion is version change would be good for this proposal
14:49 kidclamp #info and a listing of naming on the wiki
14:49 kidclamp should it be voted, or reworked with version change as proposal for vot enext meeting?
14:50 Joubu I think we all agree we need to pick good attribute names :)
14:50 thd An appeal to some ISO or other standard for library attribute usage would be good as a basis.
14:50 Joubu we need to discuss it with tcohen when we will be around
14:50 Joubu s/we/he
14:50 greenjimll If REST API is aiming for inclusion in 18.05 shouldn't we vote now to give folk time to work on it?
14:50 Joubu we need to discuss it with tcohen when he will be around*
14:50 cait i think the current case is the patron api
14:50 cait best to comment on the bu
14:50 cait g
14:51 kidclamp next meeting is two weeks so should still have time
14:51 Joubu greenjimll: we should vote with the name of the attributes
14:51 thd Joubu++
14:51 cait we already voted to match the GUI
14:51 cait intead of the database
14:52 cait that's why patron_id instead of borrowernumber for the api
14:52 Margaret joined #koha
14:53 cait i think if you want to vote on each, maybe have a separate meeting soon?
14:53 cait we need to move forward with the Rest API
14:53 greenjimll I assume its more than just "rename 'borrowernumber' for 'patron_id'" though as that's just one example. We don't have a list of attribute names to vote on do we?
14:53 Joubu no we don't
14:54 kidclamp #info vote postponed to next meeting so can discuss versioning with tcohen and get a list of attributes
14:54 kidclamp I think enough discussion to wait, let's move on
14:54 thd Why is the GUI actually different to the rest of the code?
14:54 kidclamp #topic SQL strict mode is not the default in MariaDB
14:54 Topic for #koha is now SQL strict mode is not the default in MariaDB (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 13 December 2017)
14:54 Joubu lol
14:55 Joubu yes, for me. Just a sec
14:55 Joubu it's that one: bug 17860
14:55 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=17860 normal, P1 - high, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , [SQL strict mode] MARC records will stage, but Manage for import shows 'no data in table'
14:55 Joubu see last comment
14:56 Joubu so basically we know for a while that Koha was not MySQL 5.7 compatible (with the default sql-mode option)
14:56 Joubu our suggestion was to switch to MariaDB
14:56 Joubu but they decided to follow MySQL and now also use the trans_strict_table sql mode
14:57 kidclamp #info Koha has compatability issues withMySQL 5.7 so we suggested mariadb, but they now follow MySQL and same problem occurring
14:57 Joubu if people are interested (I mean, really, SO+QA) I can take a look to estimate the work and provide patches
14:57 Joubu last time I did that (6months, 1y ago), nobody cared
14:58 kidclamp it should be done, we should work towards supporting the versions in stretch probably
14:58 Joubu we also need to update the wiki (install debian)
14:58 thd Would there be an issue for backwards compatibility to using earlier versions of MySQL or MariaDB?
14:59 josef_moravec looks like we should start to care about this
14:59 cait it's causing strange problems - reported on the mailing list and bugzilla
14:59 cait even with a workaround we should care
14:59 Joubu https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ackages#Ubuntu_16.04_and_MySQL_5.7
14:59 Joubu that section needs to be updated
15:00 * LibraryClaire has to run
15:00 Joubu #action?
15:00 cait not sure what to write - sorry
15:00 LibraryClaire left #koha
15:01 Joubu #info ping Joubu if you have time to dedicated to mariadb/mysql strict mode
15:01 * fridolin noob for SQL server
15:01 Joubu #action kidclamp Update the Koha_on_ubuntu_-_packages#​Ubuntu_16.04_and_MySQL_5.7 section
15:01 Joubu :D
15:01 kidclamp man, I weas just typing for someone else, too, I don't know the answer
15:01 kidclamp I'll tell you when RDA is ready
15:02 cait lol
15:02 kidclamp #action kidclamp will send an email to the list about the db issues
15:02 thd I'll tell you when HTML 5 is ready :)
15:02 kidclamp Joubu (neither increment or decrement)
15:03 kidclamp #topic Elasticsearch status
15:03 Topic for #koha is now Elasticsearch status (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 13 December 2017)
15:03 kidclamp This was discussed earlier, there is more movement on ES lately, have been a few more testers out there
15:03 kidclamp please add anything you wish to the status page
15:04 kidclamp please focus for now on fixing the broken things and compatability so that 18.05 can havea stable ES
15:04 Joubu (the kanban may be more useful to keep an updated overview)
15:04 kidclamp once that is done there are many things that  can be added
15:05 clrh some BibLibre guys had a look to the existant Koha implementations, a lot of questions asked to ourselves, I must edit the wiki community page and continuing testing
15:05 kidclamp please do clrh and feel free to ping me for any questions
15:05 kidclamp biblibre++
15:05 clrh it was last week and only a "one day focus" but I must continue
15:06 clrh yep kidclamp thanks
15:06 kidclamp #topic Javascript in footer
15:06 Topic for #koha is now Javascript in footer (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 13 December 2017)
15:06 Joubu oleonard: ?
15:06 laurence left #koha
15:06 oleonard Thanks to everyone who has helped move these patches quickly through
15:07 oleonard There are very few templates yet to do
15:07 oleonard Getting this done is an important step not just for performance reasons but to lay the groundwork to some JS preprocessing in the future
15:08 Joubu It is the kind of patches we should not wait long before pushing them, they do not survive to a lot of rebases
15:09 kidclamp josef_moravec++ for following QA there
15:09 oleonard Does anyone have any questions about this move, or about how to adapt to this new practice?
15:09 Joubu This is the current status: https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]raph.cgi?id=17858
15:09 kidclamp #link https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]raph.cgi?id=17858 JS move status
15:09 josef_moravec I plan to finish the QA of this as soon as possible
15:10 Joubu QA team need to be aware of that change, to avoid introducing JS code back in the header
15:10 josef_moravec We should have a rule for this probably
15:10 Joubu I have no idea how to write QA tests for that, please take a look if you want to add some
15:10 cait afk - phone call
15:12 Joubu you volunteer?
15:12 Joubu #action josef_moravec add a new coding guideline about the JS move to the footer
15:12 Joubu thanks josef_moravec ;)
15:12 kidclamp Joubu is on a roll today
15:13 kidclamp moving on?
15:13 Joubu 2 more topics, quickly?
15:13 kidclamp aside form the coding guidelines? go for it
15:14 Joubu nope, I was talking about the 2 coding guidelines
15:14 Margaret joined #koha
15:14 kidclamp #topic Review of coding guidelines
15:14 Topic for #koha is now Review of coding guidelines (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 13 December 2017)
15:14 matts joined #koha
15:14 josef_moravec Joubu: not at all ;) I'll do it
15:14 kidclamp #info Don't use DBIX calls in updatedatabase
15:15 kidclamp #info see bug 19789 and bug 17292
15:15 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=19789 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Remove some indirect DBIx calls from updatedatabase
15:15 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=17292 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Stable , Use of DBIx in broke upgrade (from bug 12375)
15:16 Joubu did anyone take a look at that?
15:17 kidclamp looking now, seems reasonable
15:17 Joubu I though we already agreed on that, but did not find discussion or coding guidelines
15:17 thd Is the problem slightly different to what is supposed.
15:18 Joubu we need to write a coding guideline and vote it during the next meeting
15:18 thd Is the manner in which DBIx is being used in error rather than using DBIx instead of DBI?
15:18 Cait_Levin joined #koha
15:18 kidclamp #action Joubu will write a coding guideline to not use DBIX in updatedatabase for voting at next meeting
15:18 kidclamp :D
15:18 Joubu #action Joubu write a coding guideline to forbid use of DBIX calls in updatedatabase (and C4/Koha ns?)
15:19 Joubu ha!
15:19 cc_ No one problem is that during updatedatabase schema and db may not match
15:19 LibraryClaire joined #koha
15:19 Joubu cc_: yes, that's the point
15:19 kidclamp #info Reminder  - git commit messages
15:20 Joubu so fetch/insert/etc must be done writing SQL queries
15:20 thd cc_: Yes, that is an underlying problem which should be fixed by better usage of DBIx should it not?
15:20 kidclamp #info ('Bug 12345: ', '(follow-up)', '(QA follow-up)', see git log) + what the patch does vs what the bug is.
15:20 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12345 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Can't Clear Reading History for Anonymous patron
15:21 Joubu A quick reminder about the commit messages (I need to write a coding guidelines too), please take a look at the last commit messages in master about the formating
15:21 Joubu I update them before push, but I may fail them soon if they are written after the anouncement
15:22 kidclamp #action Joubu will write a coding guidline on commmit message formatting for voting next meeting
15:22 Joubu an common mistake is also "what the patch does" vs "what the bug is"
15:22 wahanui okay, Joubu.
15:23 jajm is "(follow-up)" really needed ?
15:23 Joubu the commit message title must describe what the patch does, not a copy/paste of the bug report title
15:23 Joubu jajm: it's needed if you want to add a follow-up
15:23 Joubu I sent an email to the list few months ago about that, I explained when you should use it (in my opinion)
15:24 greenjimll Are the commit messages (for bug 19410) supposed to be examples of good or bad practice?
15:24 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=19410 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Pushed to Master , Add a helper function for generating object searches for the API
15:24 jajm Joubu, i'll reread this email
15:24 Joubu I need to write a guideline to vote and put that to the wiki
15:24 thd Joubu++
15:25 Joubu greenjimll: the commit messages on the bug report are different than the ones in master
15:25 Joubu I edit them before push
15:25 greenjimll I'm looking at the ones in `git log`, so are these bad/good?
15:25 Joubu but did not attach the updated patches to the bug report
15:25 Joubu git log origin/master should be ok
15:26 Joubu --oneline
15:26 greenjimll Ah, that's OK then as I couldn't see what you were complaining about. :-)
15:26 Joubu next meeting?
15:26 wahanui next meeting is https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]Next_IRC_meetings
15:27 Joubu #topic Set time of next meeting
15:27 Joubu I cannot
15:27 kidclamp #topic Set time of next meeting
15:27 Topic for #koha is now Set time of next meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 13 December 2017)
15:27 kidclamp #chair Joubu
15:27 huginn` Current chairs: Joubu kidclamp
15:28 Joubu #topic Set time of next meeting
15:28 Topic for #koha is now Set time of next meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 13 December 2017)
15:28 Joubu 27 December 2017, 20 UTC?
15:28 kidclamp +1
15:28 Joubu 27 December?
15:28 greenjimll Works for me. Something to do instead of eat sweets and watching bad Xmas TV. :-)
15:28 tcohen the 'Add pagination to vendors endpoint' and the one renaming attributes in patrons are good examples on how to use the helpers
15:29 * tcohen says while on a taxi
15:29 Joubu #info Next meeting: 27 December 2017, 20 UTC
15:29 * thd will be in an airplane returning to New York.
15:29 Joubu #endmeeting
15:29 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software
15:29 huginn` Meeting ended Wed Dec 13 15:29:47 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
15:29 huginn` Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-12-13-14.00.html
15:29 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]7-12-13-14.00.txt
15:29 huginn` Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]13-14.00.log.html
15:30 Joubu sorry for the rush at the end, but 1h30 is too long :)
15:30 clrh thanks Joubu
15:30 thd :)
15:30 oleonard Joubu++
15:30 kidclamp joubu++
15:31 Joubu Do not forget the #actions guys :)
15:31 Margaret joined #koha
15:32 Joubu (otherwise I will write a script to send you a reminder everyday)
15:32 thd cc_: Would there not be an alternative fix for the DBIx issue for avoiding schema and DB mismatch without forcing DBI?
15:35 reiveune bye
15:35 reiveune left #koha
15:37 cc_ thd: DBIx is not really meant for data definition functions  --- We'd have to rethink updatedatabase fairly majorly I think DBI/SQL is the right tool for the job
15:39 Joubu jajm: about the calls of ->find in list context, my example was wrong indeed, I was thinking about ->search I guess
15:39 Joubu jajm: why is it a problem to force the context to scalar? :)
15:43 Joubu I think the main advantages of that solution were to avoid explicit return of undef and highlight the different places where the call was wrong
15:44 thd cc_: Thank you for clarifying.  I understood that rewriting would be necessary just not whether such a rewrite would be relatively easy or not.
15:45 jajm Joubu, it's useless (and I don't like writing useless things :))
15:46 Joubu it's not useless, it avoid wrong calls and explicit return undef
15:48 Joubu (I basically followed Gabor's recommendations)
15:48 jajm I don't see how it's useful, this sub should always return a single value, there is no possible wrong calls (there was possible wrong calls because of "not explicit undef")
15:50 kidclamp Joubu bug 19599 - would it be worth eliminating Null or anonymous patron checkouts from the search?
15:50 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=19599 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Signed Off , anonymise_issue_history can be very slow on large systems
15:52 tuxayo Question: can the demos listed here [1] can be also added on the wiki page[2]? [1] [2] https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]emo_Installations
15:52 tuxayo Or are they special? I'm willing to add them but I prefer having a green light :)
15:53 jajm Joubu, you don't put 'scalar' in front of dt_from_string for instance, it is used in list context without problems
15:53 jajm because it always return a single value
15:55 jajm (well, looking at the code of dt_from_string, it may cause problems in list context when the first parameter starts with "0000-0")
15:57 LibraryClaire joined #koha
15:57 kidclamp FOLIO end of year webinar if anyone interested:[…]CTMSh-oAhUFZuLG0Q
15:58 Joubu kidclamp: yes, I guess so
16:00 Joubu tuxayo: looks like we should maintain only 1 version
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16:03 Joubu jajm: I cannot remember why/where but there was a call that looked obvious but that was wrong
16:05 Joubu jajm: I'd suggest you to open a bug report, linked to the original one.
16:08 jajm Joubu, ok
16:11 tuxayo Joubu: ++ this seems to be more easy to maintain as a wiki where anyone can fix and update stuff. Then I'll merge the content of the main site into the wiki.
16:14 Joubu tuxayo: you will not manage to do it, you will need an account. Can you send an email to the list?
16:14 Joubu As you said we should link to the wiki, but we need confirmation from the list before.
16:15 tuxayo Joubu: I was just talking about completing the wiki from the main site. Which is the first step.
16:16 tuxayo s/from/using/
16:19 cait i thinkw e should also move faqs to the wiki :)
16:19 cait but that's for later tonight
16:30 josef_moravec Joubu: action taken https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]e_end_of_template
16:30 josef_moravec still wip
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17:18 greenjimll cait: would you find a script useful that checked if bugs in "Signed Off" state could apply patches without rebasing?
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17:34 Joubu greenjimll: rangi and I have already written that kind of scripts
17:34 greenjimll Ah, in which case I've just written it again. :-)
17:34 cait heh
17:34 greenjimll Oh well, at least I'll be able to use it myself.
17:34 cait as Joubu has said, when you don't have time to test... it might be not nice to ask about continouus rebase
17:34 cait torn on that
17:35 greenjimll Ah, this doesn't contact anyone - it just tries to apply the bugzilla patches for bug(s) with given IDs/statuses and then tells me whether it applies or not.
17:50 cait sorry, have to run
17:50 cait bbl for meeting
17:50 cait left #koha
17:58 jenkins Project Koha_17.11_D8 build #13: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_17.11_D8/13/
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18:07 greenjimll fg
18:07 greenjimll Oops... wrong window. :-)
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18:28 alexbuckley thanks Joubu for looking at bug 19243 and making those improvements. I am looking through them now
18:28 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=19243 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, alexbuckley, ASSIGNED , Selenium test for testing the administration module functionality
18:29 alexbuckley and bug 19802
18:29 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=19802 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Move Selenium code to its own module
18:29 Joubu alexbuckley: Hopefully it will be more easier to write those tests :)
18:31 Joubu alexbuckley: small steps by small steps, try to add the missing tests for the administration module, then I review your changes and then we can get back to the other ones
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18:49 tcohen jenkins: status
18:49 jenkins tcohen you may not issue bot commands in this chat!
18:50 alexbuckley yup doing so Joubu
18:50 alexbuckley thankyou
18:52 cait joined #koha
18:53 alexbuckley hi cait
18:53 rangi i really should get that bot running again
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19:04 tuxayo rangi: +1
19:05 Joubu rangi: As I said during the meeting, I am not sure :)
19:06 jenkins Project Koha_17.11_D8 build #14: FAILURE in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_17.11_D8/14/
19:12 rangi it was really useful
19:12 rangi people got told that their patches didnt apply, before someone wasted time trying it themselves
19:13 rangi and if you get told early, rebase is way way way easier than if you get told they dont apply 5 months later
19:13 rangi (just speaking for my patches)
19:15 rangi maybe ill jsut get it checking catalyst ones :-)
19:16 bag what objections did people have?
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19:17 tcohen hi bag  rangi  alexbuckley
19:17 bag heya tcohen
19:18 rangi hey tcohen
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19:18 rangi bag: my parents were worried about you, as they thought you still lived in santa barbara
19:19 tcohen what's happening in Santa Barbara?
19:19 bag ahh!!  thanks!  I have a bunch of friends there though.  They gave my buddy who’s a cop - a set of fireman gear and sent him up in the hills
19:19 tcohen holy
19:19 bag tcohen: google - the thomas fire
19:19 Margaret_ joined #koha
19:20 tcohen that's huge
19:20 tcohen @later tell mtj there's an IO issue on your node, git checkout is timing out after 10 minutes
19:20 huginn` tcohen: The operation succeeded.
19:21 alexbuckley hi tcohen
19:21 bag hey rangi - maybe a thought on that bot - instead of cron-ing it - perhaps we just do it once a month or quarter?  or maybe right before any “known” hackfest.  That way we could have different tracks at a hackfest - one rebasing, one signing off, one QAing.
19:22 bag but that still doesn’t solve the major issue - it sucks to have to rebase 5 months later
19:22 rangi yeah thats the main one, if we made the tool available ppl could run it against their own patches
19:23 bag ooh that’s a great thought
19:23 bag like kidclamp could have his own script and own alerts
19:23 bag I like that thought
19:23 rangi Joubu: the kudos.json has been updated
19:24 Joubu thanks rangi
19:25 bag heya Joubu
19:25 Joubu hi bag!
19:35 * kidclamp is alerted
19:35 * kidclamp is never scripted
19:36 bag :D
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19:44 mtj tcohen, 1 tic.. ill try a faster disk
19:44 tcohen mtj, it was working ok, I'm not sure what changed
19:45 tcohen maybe it is working on NFS?
19:45 * cait waves
19:49 mtj i swapped out the ssd disk last week(ish) so VM was running on spinning disk
19:49 jenkins Project Koha_17.11_D8 build #15: SUCCESS in 35 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_17.11_D8/15/
19:49 jenkins Jonathan Druart: Bug 19766: (bug 19058 follow-up) Fix Preview routing slip
19:49 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=19766 critical, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Stable , Preview routing slip is broken
19:49 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=19058 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, RESOLVED FIXED, Move C4::Reserves::GetReserveId to Koha::Holds
19:49 mtj ..i hadnt copied the vm back to the new ssd
19:50 m23 joined #koha
19:51 mtj hopefully git checkout will not timeout, back on the ssd
19:53 gandaro joined #koha
19:53 tcohen mtj
19:53 tcohen I will try now, manually, thanks
19:54 mtj tcohen: vm is still copying... 1 tic
19:54 tcohen ah
19:55 caroline joined #koha
19:56 mtj tcohen: is up now
19:57 georgew joined #koha
19:57 tcohen yeah
19:57 tcohen I notice the difference :-D
19:57 tcohen thanks
19:58 cait meeting time?
19:58 wahanui meeting time is always going to favour one section of the globe
19:59 clintD joined #koha
19:59 thd joined #koha
20:00 georgew meeting time will always favor one section of the globe - unless the meetings are scheduled to last 24 hours
20:00 caboose joined #koha
20:00 kidclamp it is meeting time
20:00 georgew I can't imagine those would be very productive meetings, though
20:00 kidclamp #startmeeting General IRC meeting 13 December 2017
20:00 jmsasse joined #koha
20:00 huginn` Meeting started Wed Dec 13 20:00:34 2017 UTC.  The chair is kidclamp. Information about MeetBot at
20:00 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:00 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 13 December 2017)
20:00 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting_13_december_2017'
20:00 kidclamp #topic Introductions
20:00 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
20:00 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 13 December 2017)
20:00 kidclamp #chair cait
20:00 huginn` Current chairs: cait kidclamp
20:00 kidclamp #chair Joubu
20:00 huginn` Current chairs: Joubu cait kidclamp
20:01 georgew #info George Williams, Northeast Kansas Library System
20:01 kidclamp #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions
20:01 cait i have soup on the stove, probably not good to make me chair :)
20:01 caroline #info Caroline Cyr La Rose, inLibro (Canada)
20:01 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
20:01 kidclamp can't hurt
20:01 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart
20:01 Joubu #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]_13_December_2017
20:01 BobB #info Bob Birchall, Calyx, Australia
20:01 caboose #info Michael Cabus bywater solutions Princeton NJ
20:01 jmsasse #info Joel Sasse Plum Creek USA
20:01 rangi #info Chris Cormack, Catalyst IT, NZ
20:01 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City [Currently in California until 27 Dec.]
20:01 clintD #info Clint Deckard Anact NZ
20:01 rangi Your Linode, bugs, has exceeded the notification threshold (90) for CPU Usage by averaging 94.7% for the last 2 hours.
20:02 bag #info Brendan Gallagher ByWater
20:02 tuxayo #info Victor Grousset, BibLibre, France
20:02 cait oh
20:02 rangi if the bugzilla is slow, its because someone is beating the hell out of it currently, so ill be sorta here, sorta trying to fix that
20:03 * Joubu guesses it's greenjimll :D
20:03 tuxayo rangi: the kind of beating that also happened with the wiki?
20:03 kidclamp #topic Announcements
20:03 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 13 December 2017)
20:03 kidclamp floor is open
20:03 thd It is still my birthday
20:03 rangi tuxayo: don't know, I don't look after the wiki
20:03 rangi but probably
20:04 bag happy birthday thd
20:04 BobB happy birthday thd
20:04 georgew happy birthday thd
20:04 kidclamp #info it is thd's birthday all day
20:04 thd I have delayed the party until after the meeting.
20:04 tuxayo happy birthday thd
20:04 cait happy birthday
20:04 josef_moravec joined #koha
20:04 thd I usually have to collect a 2 year old from school at this time.
20:05 josef_moravec #info Josef Moravec, Munucipal Library UO, Czech Republic
20:05 kidclamp #topic Update on releases
20:05 Topic for #koha is now Update on releases (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 13 December 2017)
20:05 thd In other more important news, at home in New York I have redundant internet from two different ISPs ending a 9 month period of no internet at home.
20:05 mtj #info Mason James, NZ
20:06 wizzyrea #info Liz Rea, Catalyst NZ
20:06 kidclamp #info 17.11 see dev meeting, will be pushing and announce string freeze for 15th
20:06 kidclamp ranig any 16.11 update?
20:06 kidclamp rangi even
20:06 rangi same as that
20:06 kidclamp #info ditto for others :-)
20:06 Joubu rangi: there is a test failing, I submit a follow-up. I guess you saw it
20:07 Joubu submitted*
20:07 rangi yep thanks
20:07 kidclamp #info see dev meeeting for 18.05 goals and notes
20:07 kidclamp #topic FAQs - website, manual or wiki?
20:07 Topic for #koha is now FAQs - website, manual or wiki? (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 13 December 2017)
20:08 kidclamp cait?
20:08 wahanui cait is, like, the best friend you could ever have
20:08 cait oh sorry
20:08 cait the soup :)
20:08 cait ok, we currently have some faqs on the website and some in the manual
20:08 cait i tihnk they are all in need of updating
20:08 cait the question is where we want them to go
20:08 cait and i am throwing in the wiki as a third option ;)
20:09 sameee joined #koha
20:09 wizzyrea I think the manual
20:09 wizzyrea they'll get looked at each release (in theory)
20:09 caroline The wiki is more accessible
20:09 cait i think website makes it a bit hard because not so many have access
20:09 caroline i.e. more people can contribute
20:09 cait linking to the wiki or manual make both sense to me
20:09 georgew I was thinking the wiki
20:09 BobB i agree with wizzyrea, the manual is where new people tend to look first
20:09 wizzyrea everyone has manual
20:09 wizzyrea access as well
20:10 wizzyrea to submit patches
20:10 thd The wiki should be the easiest place for the most current information, however, document structure of FAQs is better suited to the website or manual.
20:10 caroline yeah, but it's not easy to understand
20:10 cait with the wiki we can react to mailing list questions etc more quickly
20:10 cait it's a bit less complicated even than the manual
20:10 cait so i am a bit more pro wiki
20:10 wizzyrea I don't like the wiki because it is TOO easy to update, so gets bad information more easily.
20:10 wizzyrea and less oversight.
20:11 caroline I am also pro wiki. and we could add the best questions to the manual
20:11 georgew I would suggest the wiki and have links to the faqs in the manual
20:11 cait wizzyrea: i check the recent updates regularly, atm it seems mostly ok
20:11 rangi theres way more wrong info on the wiki than there is right
20:11 kidclamp wiki and cherry pick for manual? I think both are usefull in diff ways
20:11 thd There is no reason information cannot be in multiple places with a message to check the wiki for most current updates.
20:11 wizzyrea ^
20:11 rangi thats a separate problem tho
20:11 Joubu both? Put them in the manual and update the wiki? Or the reverse
20:11 kidclamp but the stuff that is right is very usefull
20:12 wizzyrea the stuff that is right should be in the manual
20:12 wizzyrea imo.
20:12 caroline duplicates means double the work tho
20:12 cait i tihnk the wiki is more technical
20:12 Joubu no, automatically
20:12 cait we could also divide it
20:12 cait but not sure if that will work well
20:12 cait i'd prefer one spot
20:12 cait hm documentation team is not around
20:12 wizzyrea we could do some 4th solution
20:13 thd We could always ad an extension or create some automated method of pulling from one place to populate another.
20:13 wizzyrea which is a dedicated FAQ with easy access but that is neither the website, wiki, or manual.
20:13 thd s/ad/add/
20:13 cait would require a new account etc probably
20:13 wizzyrea depends on where it is.
20:14 georgew I don't care for the idea of a fourth place - three's enough
20:14 wizzyrea well at least one of those places would be going away
20:14 wizzyrea (the website)
20:14 thd wizzyrea: Do you have some particular dedicated FAQ system in mind?
20:14 wizzyrea I don't
20:14 wizzyrea because I haven't looked
20:14 wizzyrea :)
20:15 cait i think as all need to be cleaned up right now, we could move them all into one place - or should decide to have clear categories on what goes where
20:15 Joubu I think it makes sense to have the wiki (for easy edit) then pull the good info for the manual every major release
20:15 wizzyrea but I would be happy to look
20:15 wizzyrea that sounds like an awful lot of work - bc someone has to go in and find the good info
20:15 wizzyrea computers can't judge that.
20:15 * thd has investigated automated FAQ generation in the long past using vim.
20:16 BobB I agree one place is best, and the wiki is easiest to edit ...
20:16 wizzyrea the bar doesn't have to be high, but I feel there does have to be a bar
20:16 Joubu I do not expect 100 new Q&A every 6 months
20:16 BobB as long as there is a clear link to it in the manual
20:17 wizzyrea well for the log I think that will be a mess
20:17 caroline doesn't the documentation team have to go over our commits in the manual anyway?
20:17 cait there are questions repeating on the mailing lists - those could be turned into faq
20:17 wizzyrea but you do you
20:17 cait in the manual yes
20:17 cait push is moderated
20:17 thd wizzyrea: some custom markup nomenclature could sort the problem of distinguishing one thing from another in a wiki based FAQ for selection into other locations.
20:17 rangi for the record i agree with wizzyrea
20:17 caroline so it's not necessarily more work, just different
20:18 cait should we have a vote between wiki and manual?
20:18 cait i think website is out?
20:18 talljoy #info Joy Nelson Bywater
20:18 wizzyrea website is least accessible and highest barriers.
20:18 wizzyrea so yes.
20:18 BobB only a few people can edit the website
20:19 cait kidclamp: could you start a vote maybe?
20:19 cait just a last note - manual is versioned, so have to be careful with links from website, maybe a page between with links for the faq to different versions
20:19 kidclamp one sec
20:19 georgew I guess the real question I am asking myself is, who are the faqs supposed to benefit, and where are they most likely to look to find them
20:20 thd BobB: Only a few people can edit the website live but there is no reason we could not institute a drafting process for something such as FAQ content for the website.
20:20 wizzyrea none of those are problems that can't be solved
20:20 wizzyrea I could probably pretty easily pull in faq's from the manual
20:20 wizzyrea to the website
20:20 georgew When I was new, I was far more likely to look on the wiki than the manual because the wiki was easier to navigate and search
20:20 kidclamp so just manual or wiki? or either or both?
20:20 aleisha_ #info Aleisha Amohia, Catalyst IT, NZ
20:20 wizzyrea ah but the manual is much different now
20:20 georgew It has gotten a lot better
20:21 BobB its just another task for someone
20:21 wizzyrea it's always been a task for "someone"
20:21 wizzyrea :)
20:22 cait i think we can start reworking them once we have agreed on one spot
20:22 kidclamp #startvote Should we maintain the FAQ as a wiki page, or in the manual? Manual, wiki
20:22 huginn` Begin voting on: Should we maintain the FAQ as a wiki page, or in the manual? Valid vote options are Manual, wiki.
20:22 huginn` Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
20:22 cait right now it's quite confusing
20:22 kidclamp #vote wiki
20:22 Joubu both?
20:22 wahanui both is probably best :)
20:22 Joubu we have the wiki for the quick and easy edit, then the manual team pick and reorder items to put them into the next manual version
20:22 Joubu then wiki is reset with the content from the manual
20:22 Joubu yes dup of info is bad, I am just tryin to find an agreement for the 2 points of view :)
20:22 cait i think people might be confused when looking at the different versions - search 2 spots
20:22 wizzyrea #vote Manual
20:23 cait and the manual team is using kanban and stil have the framapad open i think
20:23 talljoy #vote wiki
20:23 cait so lots of options
20:23 Joubu #vote both...
20:23 huginn` Joubu: both... is not a valid option. Valid options are Manual, wiki.
20:23 rangi #vote Manual
20:23 rangi (well actually #vote anything but the wiki)
20:23 thd #vote Manual
20:23 aleisha_ #vote Manual
20:24 georgew #vote Wiki
20:24 caroline both, but if I have to choose... wiki
20:24 cait abstain - no valid option, so being quiet :)
20:24 caroline #vote wiki
20:24 alexbuckley #vote Manual
20:24 bag #vote Manual
20:25 josef_moravec #vote Manual
20:25 clintD #vote Manual
20:25 kidclamp last call
20:25 Joubu #abstain
20:25 Joubu do not know how to do that
20:26 kidclamp #endvote
20:26 huginn` Voted on "Should we maintain the FAQ as a wiki page, or in the manual?" Results are
20:26 huginn` wiki (4): kidclamp, caroline, talljoy, georgew
20:26 huginn` Manual (8): clintD, wizzyrea, josef_moravec, bag, alexbuckley, thd, aleisha_, rangi
20:27 cait at leats we got a decision now and can start cleaning up :)
20:27 Joubu so let's write that page now
20:27 Joubu so let's improve that page now :)
20:27 cait hehe
20:27 kidclamp #info vote results 4 for wiki, 8 for manual, FAQ will be maintained on the manual
20:27 cait #link[…]laneous.html#faqs
20:27 cait wizzyrea: should we let you know once stuff has been moved or how to go about it?
20:28 cait i think first would be to make it a separate chapter :)
20:28 cait ot of misc
20:29 cait move on?
20:29 rangi the other thing with the manual that i just remembered, is it is translatable
20:29 wizzyrea ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
20:29 kidclamp that's all the topics, just next meeting
20:29 kidclamp so discussion has time if wanted
20:29 wizzyrea yep just let me know how you want to handle links to it
20:30 wizzyrea I can make the existing faq go away lickety split
20:30 rangi (without someone having to maintain multiple pages)
20:30 rangi[…]laneous.html#faqs  eg <-- only partially done
20:30 thd wiki should also be translatable but the procedure for that was sidestepped in the rush to put up a wiki when the old one went down.
20:31 Joubu Next doc meeting is too far, I'd like to get opinion about what we already discussed few months ago: How can we merge the online and offline manuals
20:31 Joubu We should remove the help pages and onboard the manual
20:31 wizzyrea I have concerns
20:31 rangi we also need to start writing some guides, the manual is good, when you already know koha
20:31 Joubu the first step would be to link to the online manual, then let the ability to  provide a local path to point to a local version
20:31 wizzyrea 1. not every koha has internet access
20:31 Joubu yes, what I said :)
20:32 wizzyrea ok phew
20:32 Joubu then I think we should add a way to edit the manual (for local use in a first time)
20:32 kidclamp is there a bug for that Joubu?
20:32 Joubu and eventually the ability to merge request (but let's mark that TODO LATER)
20:32 wizzyrea technically those files are already editable with correct config, but I think the how to has been lost to the mists of time
20:33 wizzyrea plus slightly terrifying
20:33 Joubu there is 18472 and 18483, I am not willing to push them. That's why I am looking for another option
20:33 Joubu ideas/opinions?
20:34 kidclamp bug 18472 bug 18483
20:34 Joubu think about it for the next manual meeting :)
20:34 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=18472 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, veron, Passed QA , Add system preferences to manage online help system
20:34 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=18483 enhancement, P4, ---, veron, In Discussion , Customised help: Enhance staff client with news based, easily editable help system
20:35 Joubu something else or we move on to set the time of the next meeting?
20:35 ibeardslee While you are 'all' here for the IRC meeting, we are looking forward to having Koha as part of the Catalyst Open Source Academy next month. Thank you all for being part of it :)
20:35 thd Long ago we had a discussion ...
20:35 wizzyrea oh yes, tag your bugs academy
20:35 wizzyrea please and to be thanking you
20:36 thd we investigated software for managing the manual ...
20:36 thd ... as nengard was doing much of the work alone her preference became the choice
20:36 josef_moravec Would be probably possible to automatically generate integrated help pages from manual?
20:37 nengard ??
20:37 josef_moravec and then probably something like bug 18438 on top of it to local customization?
20:37 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=18438 major, P5 - low, ---, alexbuckley, Pushed to Stable , Check in: Modal about holds hides important check in messages
20:38 thd nengard: You do not remember that discussion.  Actually we may have voted in your preference.
20:38 nengard i didn't read back to see what you were talking about :)
20:39 Joubu josef_moravec: I think it's good to have the manual outside of the Koha code, otherwise we are going to embed all the translated versions of the manual
20:39 rangi its moot now
20:39 rangi cos it's not even xml anymore
20:39 Joubu #topic Set time of next meeting
20:39 Topic for #koha is now Set time of next meeting (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 13 December 2017)
20:40 caroline joined #koha
20:40 wizzyrea I think we should have a manual package that koha-common depends on
20:40 wizzyrea and you get both
20:40 wizzyrea but they are independent
20:40 cait we discussed last time to make it an option
20:40 wizzyrea or even that it doesn't depend on it, it could be optional, for example if you install Koha and have internet, you don't need the manual package
20:40 thd There were a few options and are probably more now which manage documentation in different formats online, print, etc; work well with collaboration; support version control in git well; etc.
20:41 cait use the installed manual locally or link to the external
20:41 cait i tihnk that would be nice
20:41 cait for all the hosted koha an online manual on the internet is not a big issue
20:41 wizzyrea yeah, we could create a manual vhost on the server, so your koha server could have
20:41 wizzyrea and you just go to your own copy
20:41 wizzyrea a package could do all that for you
20:42 wizzyrea and it could set a flag that says "hi I'm installed locally, all your links should point to me!"
20:42 cait if we have a configurable url
20:42 wizzyrea it'd be configurable just like the koha ones are
20:42 cait you could also have a customized manual for all oyur servers if you decided to
20:43 Joubu Next meeting: 10 January 2018, 14 UTC ?
20:43 cait ok for me
20:43 thd wizzyrea++
20:44 Joubu #info Next meeting: 10 January 2018, 14 UTC
20:44 thd Yaay 14 UTC
20:44 Joubu can I end?
20:44 wizzyrea ok by me
20:44 BobB yep
20:44 georgew yes
20:44 Joubu #endmeeting
20:44 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software
20:44 huginn` Meeting ended Wed Dec 13 20:44:45 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
20:44 huginn` Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-12-13-20.00.html
20:44 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]7-12-13-20.00.txt
20:44 huginn` Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]13-20.00.log.html
20:46 Joubu wizzyrea: did you get other concerns?
20:46 * thd invites everyone to his birthday party in Roseville, California today.
20:46 wizzyrea naw, i think as long as we provide a local copy or an option to have a local copy I"m all good
20:46 Joubu wizzyrea: yes of course
20:47 wizzyrea as mentioned I think it should be a package we can deliver via as a suggested
20:47 Joubu all of that sounds like a quite easy work (we will need to point to the right page/anchor)
20:47 wizzyrea that configures itself with a vhost and sets a flag to tell Koha "hi, i'm here look at me!"
20:47 Joubu but then the local edit may be a bit tricky, if you are aware of any good tools to do that, let me know
20:47 wizzyrea well
20:47 wizzyrea that's a fair point but it's still just rst
20:48 Joubu nope, we have the .md
20:48 Joubu and html, or whatever
20:48 rangi the .md ?
20:48 wizzyrea hm.
20:48 rangi you wouldn't install the html
20:48 thd wizzyrea: Obviously that necessitates some ease of generating the local variant and integrating that with the more universal text seamlessly where no local change is needed.
20:48 rangi you'd install the rst
20:48 rangi and compile the html
20:48 Joubu we will certainly need to provide a script to git pull/generate the html, etc.
20:48 wizzyrea ^
20:49 rangi just make sphinx a dependency
20:49 wizzyrea of the koha-manual package
20:49 rangi yep
20:49 wizzyrea not koha-common
20:49 rangi and koha-manual-update script, that wraps
20:49 thd Joubu: I will try to look for the old discussion from the mailing list later where we considered some tools at the time.
20:49 Joubu indeed, we do not have .md
20:49 wizzyrea possibly we have a vision here rangi that isn't quite clear to everyone else
20:49 wizzyrea :)
20:50 rangi thd: it's pointless that was dealing with docbookxml .. it isnt that
20:50 Joubu it's more or less what I suggested :)
20:50 Joubu so I think I get your points
20:50 wizzyrea yay!
20:50 Joubu what is after is the local editing
20:50 rangi thd: it's sphinx
20:51 thd rangi: Except that we considered other alternatives.  You may be correct, however, that the former discussion does not apply here.
20:52 cait thd: we just switched to sphinx, i think switching technologies again is not what we want right now
20:52 rangi i think we worry about local edits last, and deal with making it easy for the 98% of people who will never do local edits
20:53 wizzyrea moreover
20:53 Joubu rangi: yes, but as I said, it's the easy part :) I can be done quite quickly
20:54 wizzyrea you could still do edits
20:54 rangi lets do that then
20:54 Joubu it looks easy, I may be wrong :)
20:54 thd cait rangi: Yes, I agree that Sphinx is a good choice which probably assists well in accomplishing the goal articulated by wizzyrea.
20:54 rangi nothing we do now makes local edits harder ;)
20:54 wizzyrea it just wouldn't be all fancy fancy, it'd probably be "download the files to your computer, edit them, and upload them back into x directory"
20:54 rangi so lets make that phase 2, get phase 1 out the door
20:54 wizzyrea and run this command
20:54 wizzyrea to build the html
20:54 wizzyrea koha-build-manual
20:54 wizzyrea amirite
20:55 rangi yup
20:55 thd rangi: Everything which is currently being done seems to make local edits easier than had been the case formerly.
20:55 Joubu no
20:55 rangi phase 3, make it doable from inside koha
20:55 Joubu it's to easy the maintenance of the manual and keep only 1 version
20:56 Joubu I am done, see you #koha
20:56 rangi see you Joubu
20:57 josef_moravec bye Joubu
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21:08 Joubu fyi there is a known critical bug that impacts stable releases, see bug 19808
21:08 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=19808 critical, P5 - low, ---, victor.grousset, ASSIGNED , Data corruption causing an Internal Server Error when seeing a record's details. Which have reviews from deleted borrowers.
21:08 wizzyrea eww
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