IRC log for #koha, 2016-06-08

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:23 mario joined #koha
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01:08 dpk1 Hello.  I could use some help.  Was upgrading Koha 3.22.06 to 3.22.07 using debian packages on debian and all looked fine, but when trying to login to the admin interface, I am thrown at the installer.  The DB update script appears to have run but logfile (intranet-error.log) says the database needs updating.  Rerunning from commandline produces no indication of errors or further updates.  Any ideas?
01:11 rangi does the last db update, update the version number?
01:12 dpk1 root@library:/var/lib/mysql.dumps# /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/ins​taller/data/mysql/
01:12 dpk1 Upgrade to done (Bug 16217 - Notice' names may have diverged)
01:12 dpk1 At least one authorised value has an icon defined (imageurl)
01:12 dpk1 The system preference AuthorisedValueImages or StaffAuthorisedValueImages could be turned off if you are not aware of this feature
01:12 dpk1 Upgrade to done (Bug 16041 - StaffAuthorisedValueImages & AuthorisedValueImages preferences - impact on search performance)
01:12 dpk1 Upgrade to done (Bug 16170 - Add FK for biblionumber in items)
01:12 dpk1 Upgrade to done (Bug 16402: Fix DB structure to work on MySQL 5.7)
01:12 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=16217 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Stable , Notice' names may have diverged
01:12 dpk1 Upgrade to done (Bug 15086 - Creators layout and template sql has warnings)
01:12 dpk1 Upgrade to done (Koha 3.22.7)
01:12 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=16041 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Stable , StaffAuthorisedValueImages & AuthorisedValueImages preferences - impact on search performance
01:12 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=16170 normal, P5 - low, ---,, Pushed to Stable , Pseudo foreign key in Items
01:12 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=16402 critical, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Stable , DB structure cannot be loaded in MySQL 5.7
01:12 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=15086 minor, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Pushed to Stable , Creators layout and template sql has warnings
01:13 rangi looks good, are you running with plack or anything like that?
01:13 dpk1 No.
01:13 rangi hmm, the way koha knows it should do an update is when the version number in the syspref is lower than the one in
01:14 dpk1 Restarted mysqld just to make sure it had not cached something erroneously.
01:14 rangi hmm, the way koha knows it should do an update is when the version number in the syspref is lower than the one in
01:14 wahanui i already had it that way, rangi.
01:14 rangi ah ha
01:14 rangi bug
01:14 rangi if ( CheckVersion($DBversion) ) {
01:14 rangi print "Upgrade to $DBversion done (Koha 3.22.7)\n";
01:14 rangi SetVersion($DBversion);
01:14 rangi }
01:15 rangi ah no, i misread that is right
01:15 rangi you could check the value in the syspref to make sure it is the same as in
01:16 wizzyrea I did a 3.22.05 -> 3.22.07 earlier with no trouble
01:16 dpk1 Which, I see one in koha/lib, and koha/lib/C4
01:16 dpk1 This is the error message:
01:16 dpk1 [Wed Jun 08 02:06:57 2016] [error] [client] [Wed Jun  8 02:06:57 2016] Database update needed, redirecting to Installer. Database is 3.2206000 and Koha is 3.2207000 at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 713., referer: http://catalogue-admin.efdss.o[…]p=updatestructure
01:17 wizzyrea definitely looks like you  have a version mismatch somehow
01:18 rangi memcache?
01:18 wahanui memcache is easy
01:18 dpk1 Yup.  We got memcache.
01:19 rangi try restarting it
01:19 dpk1 Ack.
01:20 dpk1 Score!
01:21 dpk1 Me thinks we could detect this is running and either initiate the restart in the upgrade script or at least warn…
01:23 rangi yep
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01:34 dpk1 Thanks rangi.
01:34 dpk1 rangi++
01:35 rangi no worries
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02:06 irma welcome back rangi :-) Another great Koha conference !!
02:06 irma Are you feeling ok? Or still in transit?
02:06 irma I mean, body back home but not really home yet ...
02:06 jajm joined #koha
02:06 rangi still pretty jetlagged
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02:07 tcohen wb rangi!
02:08 BobB joined #koha
02:09 mtompset Greetings, irma rangi tcohen. :)
02:10 mtompset And BobB :)
02:10 tcohen hi mtompset
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02:12 BobB hi mtompset
02:13 mtompset tcohen: I've got the start of an OpacHiddenItems filter on bug 16335... just have to plan out the integration and testing. :)
02:13 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=16335 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, ASSIGNED , Refactor OpacHiddenItems
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03:00 mtompset Well, I'm going to finish my netflix video and get to bed. Have a great day (24 hour period), #koha
04:47 drojf joined #koha
04:47 drojf morning #koha
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05:09 drojf wizzyrea++
05:58 cait joined #koha
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06:22 fridolin hie
06:28 LibraryClaire joined #koha
06:29 LibraryClaire Morning #koha
06:36 drojf guten morgen LibraryClaire
06:36 LibraryClaire Guten morgen drojf
06:43 * cait waves and runs out
06:51 reiveune joined #koha
06:51 reiveune hello
06:52 LibraryClaire Hi reiveune
06:53 reiveune salut LibraryClaire
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07:10 alex_a bonjour
07:10 wahanui salut, alex_a
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08:05 eythian I could still be asleep right now
08:06 liw I would be, were it not for an uncaring world and thunderstorm
08:07 Diman joined #koha
08:07 eythian it's warm and humid here, the forecast thunderstorms almost never appear.
08:07 eythian actually, not that warm. It just felt it biking in I guess.
08:07 eythian @wunder ams
08:07 huginn` eythian: The current temperature in Schiphol, Badhoevedorp, Netherlands is 17.2°C (9:57 AM CEST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Steady).
08:08 liw @wunder helsinki
08:08 huginn` liw: The current temperature in Helsinki, Finland is 13.0°C (10:50 AM EEST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.68 in 1005 hPa (Steady).
08:22 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
08:22 huginn` drojf: The current temperature in Berlin Tegel, Germany is 22.0°C (9:50 AM CEST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 46%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Steady).
08:22 drojf oh, irc meeting
08:24 LibraryClaire joined #koha
08:26 barbara_ Good morning from the shinny limassol - Cyprus :)
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08:39 magnuse joined #koha
08:39 * magnuse waves from oslo
08:50 magnuse libraries that are open without any staff, is that a thing outside scandinavia too?
08:51 eythian I'm not aware of it, but it wouldn't be impossible in small towns I expect.
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09:04 magnuse eythian: hehe, it's a big thing here
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09:05 magnuse you have to sign in with your library card and pin code, but then you typically get access to the library from 7 am to 11 pm, even if the staff is only there from 8 am to 4 pm
09:05 drojf hi again
09:05 magnuse moin drojf
09:05 drojf hei magnuse
09:10 * magnuse is promoting himself at a library conf mostly about electronic journals and open access
09:11 magnuse the conf is in the building of the CS department of the university of oslo
09:11 magnuse rooms here have names like shell, sed and perl :-)
09:12 drojf cool :D
09:12 magnuse the buliding is named after the guy who invented object oriented programming
09:17 drojf magnuse: are you speaking there?
09:20 magnuse nope, i just have a stand as part of the exhibition
09:23 drojf ah ok
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09:41 mveron Hi #koha
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09:57 mveron @wunder Allschwil
09:57 huginn` mveron: The current temperature in Grenchen, Switzerland is 17.0°C (11:50 AM CEST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 30.15 in 1021 hPa (Steady).
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10:09 * cait waves
10:10 * mveron waves
10:10 cait do we have a meeting?
10:10 thd` One is scheduled.
10:11 cait i just saw the email
10:11 cait if enough people are here we can have one
10:11 cait but i have to grab the delivered lunch first to keep it save :)
10:11 cait or someone else can chair of course
10:12 davidnind hopefully there are enough of us
10:13 thd` People who have the delivered lunch should be awake enough to chair ;)
10:14 cait ok back
10:14 cait but... it's getting cold! :)
10:14 cait #startmeeting General IRC Meeting, 8 June 2016
10:14 huginn` Meeting started Wed Jun  8 10:14:43 2016 UTC.  The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at
10:14 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
10:14 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting, 8 June 2016)
10:14 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting__8_june_2016'
10:14 cait #topic introductions
10:14 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
10:14 Topic for #koha is now introductions (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting, 8 June 2016)
10:14 cait please introduce yourself with #info
10:15 cait today's agenda can be found at
10:15 cait #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]eting_8_June_2016
10:15 cait and davidnind++ for sending the reminder
10:15 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
10:15 davidnind #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand
10:16 schnydszch #info Eugene Espinoza - Manila, Philippines
10:16 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
10:16 mveron @info Marc Véron, Koha Support Schweiz, Allschwil
10:16 huginn` mveron: Error: The command "info" is available in the Factoids and RSS plugins.  Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "info".
10:16 mveron #info Marc Véron, Koha Support Schweiz, Allschwil
10:16 mveron :-)
10:17 cait khall: ?
10:17 khall mornin!
10:18 cait drojf: ping
10:18 indradg joined #koha
10:18 cait ok, moving on
10:18 drojf ah
10:18 cait ah or not
10:18 drojf so late, oops
10:19 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen,, Berlin, Germany
10:19 khall #info Kyle M Hall, Bywater Solutions
10:19 cait ok
10:19 cait so moving on now :)
10:19 cait #topic Announcements
10:19 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting, 8 June 2016)
10:19 indradg #info Indranil Das Gupta, L2C2 Technologies, India
10:20 cait not much from me - QA queue is pretty full, hopefully it will normalize soon to a lower number again
10:21 cait any other announcements?
10:22 cait moving on
10:22 cait #topic Update on releases
10:22 Topic for #koha is now Update on releases (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting, 8 June 2016)
10:22 cait hm no rm, any rmaints?
10:23 cait ok, 16.05 has been released
10:24 cait packages are available, but i think without the packages for elastic so far
10:24 cait there are quite a few problems when you try to install Koha on Ubuntu 16.04 right now - because of the newer MySQL version (5.6+) - but there are quite a few patches underway to help with that
10:25 cait does someone want to add something?
10:25 cait anyone still awake?
10:26 cait #topic KohaCon16
10:26 Topic for #koha is now KohaCon16 (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting, 8 June 2016)
10:26 davidnind yep, still awake...
10:26 cait kohacon16_organizers++
10:26 cait auth_library++ ikourmu++
10:26 drojf good kohacon, would go again
10:26 thd Still not quite asleep but not quite awake here.
10:26 mveron streaming ++
10:26 cait overall very good organization
10:27 davidnind streaming+++ worked really well
10:27 cait lots of interesting presentations - I can recommend watching the videos! :)
10:28 mveron
10:28 cait #link
10:28 drojf #link
10:28 drojf hmpf
10:28 cait heh
10:28 cait ok
10:28 Diman #info Dimitris Antonakis, Athens, Greece
10:28 cait moving on?
10:29 * cait waves :)
10:29 cait #topic KohaCon17
10:29 Topic for #koha is now KohaCon17 (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting, 8 June 2016)
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10:29 cait #info drojf sent a reminder to the list asking for more bids
10:29 cait drojf++
10:29 drojf two bids, only one valid if we go with the continent switching thing
10:29 cait correct
10:30 drojf we need to set a deadline
10:30 drojf or have we done that already?
10:30 cait #info curently one bid for 2016: Manila, Philippines
10:30 cait no i think we haven't
10:30 drojf i think we used to do that septemberish?
10:30 drojf end of september, or is that too late?
10:31 cait the urrent bid is for september
10:31 cait so in that case it would probably be ok
10:31 schnydszch #info we can make it earlier
10:31 cait it depends if another would want to make it earlier
10:31 cait schnydszch: conf or vote?
10:31 schnydszch the 2017 conf, at least for our bid
10:31 schnydszch for the Philippines bid
10:31 drojf i think we had september last year and that worked fine for a conference in june
10:32 mveron Yes, last time was voting in september: https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]haCon16_Proposals
10:32 cait ij
10:32 cait sorry, fingers wrong on the keyboard
10:32 schnydszch June will be fine, still Summer during that time in the Philippines, well, climate change-thing
10:33 drojf thanks mveron, just looked it up
10:33 drojf so end of august maybe for deadline
10:33 cait which date are we discussing?
10:33 cait deadline for bids, deadline for vote?
10:33 schnydszch I'm speaking of our bid, sorry
10:33 drojf " bidding for Kohacon 2016 locations will end one week after the August 2015 general IRC meeting. If you want to host Kohacon 2016, add your proposal to the wiki[1] now and announce it on the general mailing list, so people know about it.  No proposals will be accepted after 12 August 2015, 22 UTC."
10:34 drojf from last year
10:34 drojf it was earlier than i thought
10:34 drojf we could just go with the "one week after august meeting"
10:34 drojf so we would have two more meetings before
10:35 drojf does that make sense?
10:35 cait ok
10:35 mveron I think so
10:35 cait but the date won't be set then until the meeting
10:35 cait maybe we should set an august date to make things easier
10:35 cait and with timezones... probably should be clear :)
10:36 drojf i don't think that is a problem really if we set it with the meeting date at the next meeting?
10:36 cait ok
10:36 drojf next meeting we agree on the general irc meeting date for august, plus one week for bids. should work?
10:36 cait i am logging an agreed if noone is against it?
10:36 drojf and its anounced > a month before
10:37 drojf we could vote on it
10:37 cait #agreed the deadline for bids will be one week after the august meeting - exact date to be set next meeting
10:37 thd Did my connection die again?
10:37 cait you didn't leave
10:38 drojf ok then we have to get the voring thing done soon :P
10:38 drojf voring
10:38 drojf arrrr
10:38 drojf voting
10:39 cait the decision? yes
10:39 cait next meeting
10:39 cait could we do a vote about the vote? ;)
10:39 drojf we should vote today for two general options
10:39 drojf so we have it easier next time
10:39 cait i don'rt care so much about the mechanism we choose, but it hink it shoudl be clear before the voting begins
10:39 cait ok
10:39 cait so can you presentt he 2 general options quickly?
10:40 mveron https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]sses_for_KohaCons
10:40 cait #link  https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]sses_for_KohaCons
10:41 drojf what we should decide today is: do we want to have a voring mechanism that distinguishes between "yes", "no" and "maybe", or only "yes" and "no"
10:41 cait hm ok
10:41 cait so we got 2 options: yes/no and yes/no/maybe ?
10:41 drojf and then choose the exact option next time. otherwise we will have 2 hours of discussions next time and nothing in the end. like always
10:41 thd That is a false distinction.
10:42 drojf you did not enter anything else. it is in the wiki and has been for at least two months
10:42 thd The options as described do not necessarily lead to the results presumed.
10:42 drojf i am not an expert in voting schemes, i just want to have some general rule how to set it up. before we start voting
10:42 thd I know, I have been helping a friend avoid eviction.
10:43 thd Where is slef when we need him?
10:43 cait he hasn't been around in quite a while
10:43 drojf and the only contribution from your side is that you say its not enough. and you helped a friend with their eviction. which is a very noble cause, but in no way related to koha and does not get us anywhere
10:43 thd I know :)
10:44 drojf sorry if that sounds rude, but the only person trying to get this anywhere is myself, because i might set upo the vote and THEN have people complaining they wanted a different scheme ;)
10:44 mveron IMO yes/no/maybe would work fine
10:44 thd All the options are underdescribed and thus prevent an informed vote on their face.
10:45 drojf nobody took the time to describe them any further
10:45 drojf its not going to happen until next time
10:45 drojf i brought that up right after the last vote
10:45 drojf and we never did
10:45 * cait nods
10:45 cait it's true
10:45 wahanui I saw it on Digg!
10:45 cait we have been discussing this since the last vote, we need to make a decision
10:46 thd I know I should have taken some time to at least link to a fuller discussion of comparable options on Wikipedia.
10:46 drojf the options i present are the basic options we discussed last time. or the main difference between them
10:46 drojf if you want to have other ones, there is plenty of time after the next vote :)
10:46 drojf no problem in making them better, but so far we have none
10:46 drojf and that is not enough
10:47 thd Reading the choices as described is not enough to understand how they work mathematically and omits how they are counted in every case.
10:47 drojf true, as that is not part of the choices atm
10:48 cait I don#t actually have the time to get into voting mechanisms to be honest
10:48 drojf nobody has
10:48 cait but it hink we need to be clear about what we will use, even if it's to the most ideal one
10:48 drojf that is why nobody has done it for a full year
10:49 thd Options 1, 2, and 4 are all score voting which can be easily gamed but would be good for building consensus over multiple votes.
10:49 drojf trust me, the more interesting gaming part is getting the fakes out of the votes
10:50 drojf the mechanism has not been relevant in both votes i managed
10:50 drojf but it could be of course
10:50 thd Option 3 is the only one although with many variants used in government elections.
10:51 cait hm whta i see would be like 3 options
10:51 cait y/n, y/n/m and rank
10:51 cait well rank all / don't rank all
10:51 thd There is no perfectly correct voting system possible but the problems of each should be at least linked.
10:52 thd If people are not forced to rank all then you have the equivalent of score voting.
10:53 thd If a significant number of 'fakes' would go undetected score voting may maximise the problem with fakes.
10:54 thd Forcing even 'fakes' to rank all options would reduce gaming.
10:54 thd However, If we would have only two options then there would be not much of an issue.
10:54 drojf so far we have 1
10:54 drojf lol
10:55 cait thd: the fakes are human
10:55 cait in our case
10:55 cait humans multiple voting
10:55 cait whatever scheme we choose, will be gameable, unless we remove fakes by ip/email address checking or similar
10:55 thd I know that the fakes we have had are humans ;)
10:56 drojf maybe a short question to the audience
10:57 thd The downside of score voting is if people do not vote honestly but vote strategically.
10:57 davidnind method first I think, then work out way to minimise fakes
10:57 drojf who here knows what they would choose, and who cares at all?
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10:58 thd Strategic voting is most difficult with option 3 but would still need a counting method.
10:58 bgkriegel joined #koha
10:58 cait I feel like i might be missing something
10:58 * mveron has to leave - and would vote vor y/n/m
10:58 cait i am not sure what we try to prevent here
10:58 mveron Bye #koha
10:58 cait if i don't want to go to one locationand don't wnat to gvie it poitns - would that be strategic voting... and what is bad about it?
10:59 thd Have we always used some variant of option 3 in the past for KohaCon with the issue then being how we counted the votes?
11:00 thd The problem is only when some people vote strategically and others vote honestly.
11:00 drojf what does that mean?
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11:01 thd It may be less of an issue if the range is only 1 and 0.
11:01 davidnind I don't really understand the nuance about 'strategic' voting, or voting 'honestly' -  vote is a vote?
11:01 drojf strategically vs honestly?
11:01 LibraryClaire hello
11:01 magnuse #info Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway
11:01 drojf hi LibraryClaire. we are in a meeting, you should introduce yourself
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11:02 thd If I choose to vote strategically I would vote the maximum value permitted for my preferred choice and minimum for all others.
11:02 LibraryClaire #info Claire Gravely, UAL, UK
11:02 cait yeah.. but if you only woudl attend that one kohacon?
11:03 cait in that place?
11:03 cait i am not sure I understand why this is a bad thing in itself
11:03 drojf thd: yes, the question is kind of, do people want to have that or not. i am fine with all options, but we should have a rule. because so far, after the vote starts, people complain that it is the one way or the other
11:03 drojf and i dont see why i should not vote maximum for the one location i can go
11:04 drojf that is what people do
11:04 thd Honest voters who give every candidate due consideration have the strength of their vote diluted.
11:04 drojf what is honest about that?
11:04 drojf that term does not make any sense in that context
11:04 bgkriegel #info Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel, Córdoba, Argentina
11:05 drojf hi bgkriegel
11:05 thd 'Honest' means in this case not disproportionately artificially lowering the vote given to lesser preferences.
11:05 bgkriegel hi drojf !
11:06 cait hi bernardo :)
11:06 drojf how is that more honest than vote for the place i wanna go and null for the others?
11:06 thd 'Strategic' voting boosts the overall strength of each strategic vote.
11:07 thd drojf: If that is your true position to give all weight to one candidate then voting that way is fine.
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11:08 cait ok, so maybe first question is
11:08 cait do we want ranking?
11:08 eythian just use STV and be done with it unless there's only a couple of options in which case it doesn't matter anyway, it's not really a matter that requires so much wasted time discussing it.
11:08 cait or do we want to say yes/no/(maybe)
11:08 thd The problem comes when others do not express their vote as strongly and consequently have their vote diminished in the counting.
11:08 cait eythian: what is stv?
11:08 thd We have always used ranking in some form for voting on KohaCon.
11:08 cait not true
11:08 cait we had yes/no last time
11:08 eythian cait: order your preferences from 1 to n, or similar.
11:09 thd Almost always :)
11:09 drojf i am fine with ranking all, i just want a decision :P
11:09 drojf before the vote is conducted
11:09 drojf we can just choose to go with that if its what people prefer
11:10 cait eythian: so that's rank all then?
11:10 drojf and who wants to veto has to write a 20 page proposal for next year
11:10 thd I would like to suggest ranking with the same counting method used in the Debian community.
11:10 drojf what counting method may that be?
11:10 eythian cait: I think it's usually implemented as being allowed to skip, but it doesn't matter.
11:10 * thd checks.
11:10 drojf it does matter
11:11 eythian everyone loves bikeshedding voting discussions.
11:11 drojf because that will be the point people complain about then :P
11:11 drojf ok. proposal:
11:11 cait ok
11:11 cait so lets vote ranking or yes/no/(maybe) to limit this down a bit
11:11 davidnind my view - keep as simple as possible: either yes/no, or rank options from 1 to 3 for example if three proposals
11:11 cait #startvote Which voting method do you prefer? (rank, options)
11:11 huginn` Begin voting on: Which voting method do you prefer? Valid vote options are , rank, options, .
11:11 huginn` Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
11:12 drojf two votes. first: yes/whatever/no or ranking. second: depending on first: yes/no or yes/maybe/no OR ranking/all or ranking/skip
11:12 cait #vote rank
11:12 drojf #vote rank
11:12 LibraryClaire #vote rank
11:13 davidnind #vote rank
11:13 khall #vote rank
11:13 eythian #vote rank
11:13 thd #vote rank
11:13 Diman #vote rank
11:13 cait waiting a few more seconds...
11:13 schnydszch #vote rank
11:13 indradg #vote rank
11:13 cait #endvote
11:13 huginn` Voted on "Which voting method do you prefer?" Results are
11:13 huginn` rank (10): LibraryClaire, davidnind, cait, eythian, khall, indradg, thd, drojf, Diman, schnydszch
11:14 cait #agreed the voting mechanism will be 'ranking'
11:14 druthb o/
11:14 drojf look, that was easy
11:14 khall hi druthb!
11:14 cait ok, now rank all or rank the one you want to go to?
11:14 drojf so do all vs skip and we are done :)
11:14 thd Debian uses the Condorcet method with a Schulze count if I am not mistaken.
11:14 druthb hiyas.
11:14 cait or all vs skip yep
11:14 cait #startvote Do you want to rank all (all) or be able to not rank those you wouldn't be able to attend (skip) (all,skip)?
11:14 huginn` Begin voting on: Do you want to rank all (all) or be able to not rank those you wouldn't be able to attend (skip) (all,skip)? Valid vote options are Yes, No.
11:14 huginn` Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
11:15 thd If you do not rank all then you have score voting.
11:15 thd You do not have rank voting if you do not rank all.
11:15 thd
11:15 davidnind #vote all
11:15 cait #vote all
11:15 LibraryClaire #vote all
11:15 thd #vote all
11:16 schnydszch #vote all
11:16 Diman #vote all
11:16 thd Ranking only one reduces to 'strategic' score voting.
11:16 cait ending vote in a quick moment
11:17 cait #endvote
11:17 huginn` Voted on "Do you want to rank all (all) or be able to not rank those you wouldn't be able to attend (skip) (all,skip)?" Results are
11:17 cait #agreed The ranking will require to rank all bidders/locations.
11:17 thd
11:17 drojf thanks
11:17 drojf that was easy. only took 8 months :P
11:17 cait shouldn't ask - but is the points given to each clear then?
11:18 JoshB joined #koha
11:18 thd The count is not clear without specifying.
11:18 eythian cait: what is your question?
11:18 drojf we have not discussed that. :P
11:18 cait eythian: how points will be given
11:19 eythian cait: ranking is not allocating points
11:19 cait i think we shoudl discuss counting at the nextmeeting tho
11:19 drojf eythian: you could count more points for rank 1 than rank 2.
11:19 cait eythian: how do you see who won?
11:20 eythian drojf: no, that's not how you do it
11:20 eythian a meeting is not the place for this though :)
11:20 drojf eythian: its possible and a thing people do
11:20 JoshB left #koha
11:20 drojf but we reached the decision for today. if anyone wants to bring that up next time, alright. i would not ;)
11:21 thd` joined #koha
11:21 drojf next topic? :)
11:21 thd` What just happened?  My connection dropped.
11:22 nengard joined #koha
11:22 thd` We still need a counting system.
11:22 deb-CSPL joined #koha
11:22 thd` I suggest which is used by Debian and some other software communities.
11:22 cait phone
11:22 cait #chair drojf
11:22 huginn` Current chairs: cait drojf
11:24 davidnind My opinion - way to complicated for what we are trying to achieve + we have  already voted
11:25 davidnind This is my summary with an example of what we voted for: example 3 choices (proposals) - rank 1, 2 and 3 for the 3 options however you choose (have to rank all), proposal with the highest count 'wins'?
11:25 thd`` joined #koha
11:26 thd`` The counting method can actually change the outcome in ranked voting so it is important to use one which seems to give a fair result expressing people's actual preferences in as wide a range of actual circumstances as possible.
11:26 drojf oh why did i become chair? cait gone?
11:26 drojf ah phone
11:26 drojf ok next topic
11:26 wahanui hmmm... next topic is a tricky one...
11:26 thd`` I am having real trouble staying connected today.
11:27 drojf we had a lot of fakes last time, and the question was, if we would take more info this time for people voting
11:27 thd Do we still lack a counting method for ranked voting?  Are we deferring the issue of counting method?
11:28 drojf so far we only had an email address (and ip addresses and referrers). do you consider it good or bad to also get the name and maybe institution of people voting?
11:28 drojf i would like to do that (if i conduct the vote), because its way more work for fakes. the will still be there of course
11:29 drojf but i would be interested in your opinion about it. any cons?
11:30 thd We should collect as much brief information as we can reasonably and privately without overburdoning the process for everyone.
11:30 cait institution would leave out people interested comeing 'themselves' maybe
11:30 cait still phone sorry
11:30 eythian just so long as it would be clear that it's OK for anyone not attached to an institution to have a procedure
11:30 davidnind some people are not part of organisations, so could be optional
11:31 drojf good point
11:31 thd A note would be needed for institution allowing none, blank, individual, or some equivalent.
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11:31 drojf if it's ok to have none, it's probably not worth bothering some about it?
11:32 eythian could you check for a valid email, or does that then become a Lot More Work?
11:33 thd How advantageous might such a field be for identifying fakes or encouraging people to be honest and avoiding fakes in the first place?
11:33 drojf ok. i would not vote on that. if necessary we could do that next time. just think about it
11:33 drojf eythian: valid email format yes, valid email like click a link in the email probably not, and not worth it
11:33 drojf in my experience people just use work and private email
11:33 drojf or several of those
11:33 eythian true
11:34 davidnind the joys of 'online voting'!
11:34 drojf thd: if you can leave it blank, probably not so much. i can't assume somebody to be more of a fake for not filling a non-required field
11:34 drojf and they could just put whatever anyway
11:34 drojf i'll think about it for next time
11:34 drojf moving on?
11:35 davidnind yes please
11:35 drojf #topic Actions from General IRC meeting 6 April 2016 (deferred) and General IRC meeting 4 May 2016 (none)
11:35 Topic for #koha is now Actions from General IRC meeting 6 April 2016 (deferred) and General IRC meeting 4 May 2016 (none) (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting, 8 June 2016)
11:35 thd However, would people be discouraged from faking or hesitate to fake from having the question of institution put to them?
11:35 drojf there seem to be none
11:35 drojf that was the last point on the agenda
11:36 drojf we need a date for next time
11:36 drojf #topic next meeting
11:36 Topic for #koha is now next meeting (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting, 8 June 2016)
11:36 eythian http://www.scientificamerican.[…]ou-better-person/ <-- just put a giant eye on the page
11:36 drojf july 6, 20 UTC?
11:37 drojf please do a +1 or something ;)
11:37 bgkriegel +1
11:37 drojf waiting for another minute or its decided ;)
11:38 davidnind +1
11:38 LibraryClaire +1
11:38 davidnind something :)
11:38 drojf #agreed next meeting july 6, 20 UTC
11:38 drojf #endmeeting
11:38 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to the #koha IRC chat | Code of conduct -[…]/code-of-conduct/ | Please use for pastes | Installation guide for Koha is
11:38 huginn` Meeting ended Wed Jun  8 11:38:41 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
11:38 huginn` Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-06-08-10.14.html
11:38 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]6-06-08-10.14.txt
11:38 huginn` Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]08-10.14.log.html
11:38 drojf thanks everyone
11:38 davidnind cait++
11:39 davidnind drojf++
11:39 cait drojf++ thx for taking over
11:40 druthb crojf++
11:40 druthb drofj++   #can't type; has a dumb
11:40 druthb cait++
11:41 eythian @karma crojf
11:41 huginn` eythian: Karma for "crojf" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1.
11:41 thd` joined #koha
11:41 druthb :P
11:41 eythian @karma drofj
11:41 huginn` eythian: Karma for "drofj" has been increased 3 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 3.
11:41 eythian a more popular typo
11:41 drojf lol
11:42 LibraryClaire cait++
11:42 LibraryClaire drojf++
11:42 LibraryClaire sorry for turning up late - I was stuck on the underground
11:42 thd` Do we have a date for the next meeting?
11:43 eythian wahanui: logs
11:43 wahanui logs is
11:43 * thd` keeps losing the connection.
11:44 thd` As I feared, my friend is in court that day.
11:47 thd Sorry to all for not having had more time to put voting issues in the wiki and also bring them up on the mailing list.
11:48 drojf thd: plenty of time for the kohacon 2018 vote if you feel like it
11:50 thd drojf: I know.  The last few weeks have left me extraordinarily sleep deprived trying to find a lawyer for my friend.
11:50 eythian <-- drojf, apropos of nothing
11:54 thd eythian: Twice as funny for being a parody based upon the work of copyright maximalist musicians.
11:55 drojf lol
11:59 eythian <-- cait, rangi: 4 years ago today
11:59 cait heh
11:59 cait edinburgh?
11:59 wahanui well, edinburgh is for sure now
11:59 druthb lol
11:59 drojf lol
11:59 ericar joined #koha
11:59 nengard druthb?
11:59 wahanui She's really more trouble than she's worth, you know?
11:59 nengard HA!!!
12:00 eythian cait: yeah
12:00 druthb yes?
12:00 * druthb agrees with wahanui
12:00 drojf ashimema: around?
12:04 ashimema :)
12:04 ashimema am now.. for a little while.. whats up drojf
12:05 bgkriegel druthb: Happy birthday! :)
12:06 druthb Thanks, bgkriegel. :)
12:08 * thd quits before he is disconnected again.
12:10 davidnind left #koha
12:15 drojf davidnind++ # already made a wiki page for next meeting
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12:30 drojf icecream break?
12:38 nengard i want ice cream
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12:50 drojf nengard: i got chocolate and mango now. want some? ;)
12:53 nengard yes
12:53 nengard chocolate please :)
12:56 * drojf throws chocolate icecream around the globe
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13:03 nengard WOOO HOOOO
13:04 * magnuse marvels at the chocolate icecream flying by the window
13:07 * druthb would take some mango please, drojf.
13:07 druthb Just throw a little to the left of nengard.
13:10 drojf i need an icecream cannon
13:11 cait better not
13:12 drojf hm. may have talked myself into setting up shibboleth. oops
13:13 magnuse great way to learn something new :-)
13:13 drojf hm. yes. i guess.
13:14 drojf i should shoot some icecream in the general ashimema direction as a precaution, so i can go there and cry about it later
13:17 ashimema haha.. good luck ;)
13:18 eythian drojf: hmm, SAML is not an enjoyable experience in general
13:19 drojf i am not sure if it is actually a solution to what they want. will find out later this week
13:20 drojf from what i understand they would need koha to be the identity provider for something else, i don't see that happening
13:20 drojf at least as far as i understand shibboleth in koha
13:21 cait hm no
13:21 cait service provider, but not identity provider
13:21 drojf yes
13:21 magnuse t'would be cool if koha could be an identity provider, though
13:21 eythian yeah, I've made it be an SP before
13:21 drojf i think they want to outsource that part to koha from another system
13:21 eythian magnuse: no, it wouldn't.
13:22 eythian it would be a terrible maintenance job
13:22 magnuse oh?
13:22 magnuse if koha was the source of truth about users?
13:22 magnuse or maintaining the code?
13:22 eythian supporting SAML is terrible enough from the SP point of view
13:23 eythian maintaining the code and configuring the systems to work
13:23 eythian all would be horrible
13:24 ashimema If I were going to go about being an Identity Provider I'd use one of the half decent off the shelf solutions ;)
13:24 ashimema Shibboleth has IdP packages and SimpleSAMLphp works pretty reasonably
13:24 magnuse yeah, that sounds like a better ideea
13:24 eythian the only IdP I've had any interaction with was bad. But it was commercial and enterprisey.
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13:25 ashimema simplesamlphp would be where I'd start.. build a quick php driver to look at the koha borrowers tables as it's source
13:25 eythian ashimema: stop wanting that :)
13:25 eythian don't look at the table
13:25 eythian look at a user API
13:25 drojf i'd be up for not being an identity provider and they just implement sip2 auth in that other thing :P
13:25 * ashimema has actually done this for a customer once.. it wasn't pretty but it worked
13:25 eythian a database schema is not an API :)
13:25 eythian (well, I suppose it literally is, but it shouldn't be treated like one.)
13:25 ashimema I don't want that ;)
13:26 ashimema this was before the uesr api was any good ;)_
13:26 ashimema ++ for api
13:28 drojf people should not be allowed to send me emails until i am through all the old ones
13:29 magnuse drojf: except new customers? :-)
13:29 cma joined #koha
13:29 * magnuse wanders off
13:29 drojf or… they should be allowed to send emails, but not allowed to start waiting for an answer before i am done with the others
13:29 eythian drojf: I think I'm below 1,500 unread now.
13:29 drojf magnuse: yes :D
13:30 liw drojf, I have sometimes considered a bot that autoresponds to mails in my needs-responding folder with a mail saying "Thank you for your email. Your email is important to us. We well get to it shortly. You are now number N in the queue. Have a nice day."
13:30 drojf liw: people would love it
13:31 drojf that icecream made me want to sleep. it was not even that much
13:31 liw instead i have a cronjob that runs every morning
13:33 drojf liw: the "do something about it" part needs more work. like, actually doing something, while you go to bed for another hour
13:34 liw I could easily automatically delete anything older than a week, but I'm quite ready for that :)
13:35 drojf delete everything
13:35 drojf delete sender
13:37 mario joined #koha
13:40 eythian drojf: it's relatively specialised software, from their point of view.
13:41 eythian that too
13:45 amyk joined #koha
13:54 drojf i still have not set up koha 16.05 on a raspi 3 with plack. i guess that could really work in production for a small library
13:55 drojf when do other people do all the stuff they want to do? sigh.
13:56 * liw throws at drojf
13:56 drojf heh thanks, reading that is on the pile of stuff i did not have time for yet (not kidding)
13:57 liw heh
13:57 drojf i could start by making different piles from the one pile, then putting the smaller piles everywhere
13:57 liw I've heard that response before
13:57 drojf and then have nowhere to walk and sit on the couch for a week
13:58 liw it's about 11000 words so not long
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14:10 LibraryClaire hallo
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14:11 drojf eythian: do we (did we when you were packaging manager) keep track somewhere in a central place why we require certain versions of dependencies? or is that just my job to know it all or look up all single bugs?
14:12 drojf at least for some stuff i have seen regarding catmandu it would make sense to gather that somewhere
14:12 eythian we don't really declare them in the package (we could, but we don't)
14:12 eythian in general, my policy was "get the latest one"
14:13 drojf i was looking at bug 16695
14:13 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=16695 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Exception::Class 1.39 is not packaged for Jessie
14:14 eythian https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ndency_Guidelines <-- tell people off for violating point 3
14:14 drojf that versions seems to be kind of arbitrary in that case. for catmandu there were things like "get that version of a because b requires it or c will break and 4 will deinstall koha-common"
14:15 eythian but anyway, there's no central database of it, things didn't tend to get that complicated
14:16 drojf ok, maybe i just had a funny case to start with. if that does not happen all the time it can be found in the bug report
14:17 drojf or i add a wiki page for the crazy stuff that i find on the way
14:17 drojf oh i still need to write that email to the debian perl people
14:17 eythian joubu fixed it there anyway, but don't forget to check back into wheezy too.
14:17 drojf are the presentations up btw? or would you send me the packaging one?
14:18 liw I'd document the package dependency changes in debian/changelog
14:18 eythian I linked it in the talk itself, you shoulda been paying attention ;)
14:18 eythian (one moment)
14:18 eythian liw: it's not packaging specific generally though, which makes that more complicated
14:19 eythian[…]s/V38lAuuuCfxdGY5 <-- drojf
14:19 kidclamp joined #koha
14:20 drojf i did pay attention, but i did all the exercises :P
14:25 talljoy1 joined #koha
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14:37 drojf oh look, i got two wiki pages for packaging. i am great at that information management thing
14:46 wizzycray joined #koha
14:51 LibraryClaire greedy
14:52 eythian wizzycrayfish is up early
14:54 TGoat joined #koha
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15:04 geek_cl joined #koha
15:06 wizzycray very early :)
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15:33 mveron Hi again #koha
15:48 drojf hi mveron
15:48 mveron hi drojf
15:48 LibraryClaire joined #koha
15:49 hbraum joined #koha
15:50 mveron drojf: Did you see the comment on Bug 16346?
15:50 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=16346 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, wizzyrea, In Discussion , Website should be translatable
15:52 drojf i did
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16:32 reiveune bye
16:32 reiveune left #koha
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16:58 * drojf heads home
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17:34 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
17:34 huginn` drojf: The current temperature in Berlin Tegel, Germany is 22.0°C (7:20 PM CEST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 43%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Steady).
17:34 drojf really tries that summer thing
17:43 LibraryClaire @wunder Guildford, uk
17:43 huginn` LibraryClaire: The current temperature in Chilworth, Chilworth, United Kingdom is 21.2°C (6:42 PM BST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 30.21 in 1023 hPa (Steady).
17:43 LibraryClaire humid :(
17:44 drojf 71% means you can almost swim
17:45 LibraryClaire feels like :P
17:45 nengard @wunder 78754
17:45 huginn` nengard: The current temperature in North Acres, Austin, Texas is 31.8°C (12:40 PM CDT on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 55%. Dew Point: 22.0°C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Steady).
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19:16 * barbara_ slaps barbara_ around a bit with a large fishbot
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19:42 asdf Hey guys.  Is there an upgrade process listed somewhere for going from 3.22 to 16.05? (debian package install).  Will simply following the upgrade instructions in the INSTALL file be sufficient?
19:43 gmcharlt_ asdf: http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.[…]00-td5890242.html
19:45 asdf Thanks!  Will this retain system preferences, catalogs, etc., or will a full backup/restore be necessary?
19:54 cait joined #koha
20:02 * cait waves
20:02 LibraryClaire hi cait
20:02 cait hey - how are you doing?
20:02 cait throat getting better?
20:03 * drojf waits to see if cait runs out again
20:04 LibraryClaire still not amazing, I think it's turning into a cough now, but I can function (just) ;)
20:06 LibraryClaire how's the mass of email?
20:07 geek_cl joined #koha
20:08 cait slowly getting through it
20:08 cait at least some of the piles are shrinking :)
20:08 cait drojf: not for a little bit longer
20:09 LibraryClaire :)
20:10 drojf then hi cait :)
20:10 cait hi drojf :)
20:13 eythian I think I caught something from you people
20:13 jzairo_ joined #koha
20:14 eythian have a sore throat setting in
20:14 * cait blames LibraryClaire :P
20:14 LibraryClaire hey, someone gave this to me!
20:14 * cait just unpacked a new fitbit
20:14 LibraryClaire aaw, you didn't find yours?
20:14 cait it's can't have been the person coughing all the time *hides*
20:14 cait no, didn't turn up again
20:14 LibraryClaire aw :(
20:15 cait sacrifice to the gods of travel i guess
20:15 eythian after telling me off for leaving my tablet on the plane...
20:15 rangi[…]72157666855401463
20:15 cait yeah... i should have known better
20:15 cait oh even more pictues
20:16 drojf haha weird people on a boat
20:16 cait very weird people :)
20:16 rangi drojf: i only put online the one where you cant tell who you are :)
20:17 rangi i can send you the others if you want
20:17 drojf :D
20:17 drojf that would be nice
20:18 LibraryClaire yay pics :D
20:18 drojf i miss greece
20:18 rangi yeah it was a lovely place
20:19 eythian <-- more
20:19 rangi oh cool you got one of the horseless carriage
20:19 * cait misses people
20:20 kathryn joined #koha
20:20 drojf eythian: great job at making the distance between amsterdam and berlin seem really huge
20:20 LibraryClaire lol
20:20 eythian yeah :)
20:21 eythian[…]xp4eQLPm-94Eo_sVR <-- or in video form (warning: sound)
20:21 cait 404
20:22 eythian <-- try this
20:22 eythian (I copied the wrong link)
20:24 eythian @wunder ams
20:24 eythian :<
20:24 huginn` eythian: Error: timed out
20:24 rangi eythian: joh was stoked with the ink
20:24 eythian sweet
20:24 eythian @wunder ams
20:24 huginn` eythian: The current temperature in Schiphol, Badhoevedorp, Netherlands is 13.7°C (10:24 PM CEST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 30.21 in 1023 hPa (Rising).
20:25 eythian it's cold here, why is my apartment so damn warm with everything open?
20:25 drojf fire?
20:25 wahanui fire is[…]uring-live-stream
20:26 eythian I hope now
20:26 eythian not
20:26 rangi fire at the mcdonalds here
20:26 LibraryClaire :/
20:28 drojf eythian: have you tried the unlabelled tsipouro yet?
20:29 eythian yeah, had it yesterday
20:29 eythian a bit bitier than some of the others
20:29 eythian but not bad
20:30 rangi oh, that reminds me, i need to drink the beers you and joubu gave me
20:32 eythian[…]zersgracht-633-p/ <-- time to buy a place here I guess
20:32 LibraryClaire just for the weekends :P
20:33 * LibraryClaire whispers 'it has a library...'
20:34 eythian Well, it only has 18 bedrooms. Of course only for weekends.
20:35 drojf eythian: i think that is true bathtub tsipouro. not tried yet but smells different
20:38 Dyrcona eythian: That's nothing. Kim Dotcom's place is up for sale:
20:39 eythian 12 bedrooms? What am I, some kind of peasant?
20:39 Dyrcona heh!
20:40 cait brb
20:47 cait joined #koha
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20:54 rangi drojf:[…]40648028961263616  <-- wellington isn't so bad today either
20:55 LibraryClaire that's pretty!
20:57 drojf nice!
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21:33 rangi[…]wV1d6aUFvdnNBUU93  <-- lol i look wasted (i probably was)
21:34 drojf cait does a nice whatever she is doing
21:34 cait hm?
21:34 cait ah what?
21:34 wahanui i heard ah was ?
21:34 LibraryClaire magic
21:35 cait yep that
21:35 wahanui yep that is probably what I see when I go into circ rules.
21:35 LibraryClaire lol
21:35 drojf a shadow rabbit
21:53 tcohen hi
21:53 tcohen hi cait
21:54 cait hi tcohen :)
21:54 tcohen rangi: cool pictures
21:55 tcohen rangi: it looks like it was too much beer for the day for you
21:56 rangi heh, i think that was just the first one, but it was a hot day
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22:13 drojf good night #koha
22:23 kidclamp any know if there is a way to search or sort in bugzilla by number of cc's/followers
22:23 rangi not that i know of
22:23 kidclamp darn
22:25 cait number of comments... but number of ccs haven't seen
22:29 kidclamp how can you do # of comments cait?
22:31 cait hm let me see
22:32 cait if you change columns
22:33 cait it's one of hte options you can select
22:33 cait number of comments
22:34 kidclamp cool, thanks!
22:35 kidclamp so I need to tell people to comment, not just follow :-)
22:35 rangi whats the use case?
22:37 kidclamp in trying to get users more involved I always tell them to follow the bugs they are interested in
22:37 kidclamp would be nice to say 'hey 20 people are looking at this bug, maybe I should fix it'
22:37 cait night all :)
22:38 kidclamp night cairt
22:38 kidclamp cait even
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22:39 kidclamp I was gonna suggest it as a dashboard add-on - most (un)popular bugs
22:41 kidclamp goodnight all
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23:03 wizzyrea heh
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