| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:23 |
|
|
mario joined #koha |
| 01:00 |
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dpk1 joined #koha |
| 01:08 |
|
dpk1 |
Hello. I could use some help. Was upgrading Koha 3.22.06 to 3.22.07 using debian packages on debian and all looked fine, but when trying to login to the admin interface, I am thrown at the installer. The DB update script appears to have run but logfile (intranet-error.log) says the database needs updating. Rerunning updatedatabase.pl from commandline produces no indication of errors or further updates. Any ideas? |
| 01:11 |
|
rangi |
does the last db update, update the version number? |
| 01:12 |
|
dpk1 |
root library:/var/lib/mysql.dumps# /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/installer/data/mysql/updatedatabase.pl |
| 01:12 |
|
dpk1 |
Upgrade to 3.22.06.001 done (Bug 16217 - Notice' names may have diverged) |
| 01:12 |
|
dpk1 |
At least one authorised value has an icon defined (imageurl) |
| 01:12 |
|
dpk1 |
The system preference AuthorisedValueImages or StaffAuthorisedValueImages could be turned off if you are not aware of this feature |
| 01:12 |
|
dpk1 |
Upgrade to 3.22.06.002 done (Bug 16041 - StaffAuthorisedValueImages & AuthorisedValueImages preferences - impact on search performance) |
| 01:12 |
|
dpk1 |
Upgrade to 3.22.06.003 done (Bug 16170 - Add FK for biblionumber in items) |
| 01:12 |
|
dpk1 |
Upgrade to 3.22.06.004 done (Bug 16402: Fix DB structure to work on MySQL 5.7) |
| 01:12 |
|
huginn |
Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=16217 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Stable , Notice' names may have diverged |
| 01:12 |
|
dpk1 |
Upgrade to 3.22.06.005 done (Bug 15086 - Creators layout and template sql has warnings) |
| 01:12 |
|
dpk1 |
Upgrade to 3.22.07.000 done (Koha 3.22.7) |
| 01:12 |
|
huginn |
Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=16041 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Stable , StaffAuthorisedValueImages & AuthorisedValueImages preferences - impact on search performance |
| 01:12 |
|
huginn |
Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=16170 normal, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Pushed to Stable , Pseudo foreign key in Items |
| 01:12 |
|
huginn |
Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=16402 critical, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Stable , DB structure cannot be loaded in MySQL 5.7 |
| 01:12 |
|
huginn |
Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=15086 minor, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Pushed to Stable , Creators layout and template sql has warnings |
| 01:13 |
|
rangi |
looks good, are you running with plack or anything like that? |
| 01:13 |
|
dpk1 |
No. |
| 01:13 |
|
rangi |
hmm, the way koha knows it should do an update is when the version number in the syspref is lower than the one in Koha.pm |
| 01:14 |
|
dpk1 |
Restarted mysqld just to make sure it had not cached something erroneously. |
| 01:14 |
|
rangi |
hmm, the way koha knows it should do an update is when the version number in the syspref is lower than the one in Koha.pm |
| 01:14 |
|
wahanui |
i already had it that way, rangi. |
| 01:14 |
|
rangi |
ah ha |
| 01:14 |
|
rangi |
bug |
| 01:14 |
|
rangi |
if ( CheckVersion($DBversion) ) { |
| 01:14 |
|
rangi |
print "Upgrade to $DBversion done (Koha 3.22.7)\n"; |
| 01:14 |
|
rangi |
SetVersion($DBversion); |
| 01:14 |
|
rangi |
} |
| 01:15 |
|
rangi |
ah no, i misread that is right |
| 01:15 |
|
rangi |
you could check the value in the syspref to make sure it is the same as in Koha.pm |
| 01:16 |
|
wizzyrea |
I did a 3.22.05 -> 3.22.07 earlier with no trouble |
| 01:16 |
|
dpk1 |
Which Koha.pm, I see one in koha/lib, and koha/lib/C4 |
| 01:16 |
|
dpk1 |
This is the error message: |
| 01:16 |
|
dpk1 |
[Wed Jun 08 02:06:57 2016] [error] [client 71.212.29.4] [Wed Jun 8 02:06:57 2016] 404.pl: Database update needed, redirecting to Installer. Database is 3.2206000 and Koha is 3.2207000 at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Auth.pm line 713., referer: http://catalogue-admin.efdss.o[…]p=updatestructure |
| 01:17 |
|
wizzyrea |
definitely looks like you have a version mismatch somehow |
| 01:18 |
|
rangi |
memcache? |
| 01:18 |
|
wahanui |
memcache is easy |
| 01:18 |
|
dpk1 |
Yup. We got memcache. |
| 01:19 |
|
rangi |
try restarting it |
| 01:19 |
|
dpk1 |
Ack. |
| 01:20 |
|
dpk1 |
Score! |
| 01:21 |
|
dpk1 |
Me thinks we could detect this is running and either initiate the restart in the upgrade script or at least warn… |
| 01:23 |
|
rangi |
yep |
| 01:32 |
|
|
geek_cl joined #koha |
| 01:34 |
|
dpk1 |
Thanks rangi. |
| 01:34 |
|
dpk1 |
rangi++ |
| 01:35 |
|
rangi |
no worries |
| 01:41 |
|
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lari joined #koha |
| 01:48 |
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NateC joined #koha |
| 02:04 |
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gmcharlt_ joined #koha |
| 02:05 |
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tcohen joined #koha |
| 02:05 |
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huginn` joined #koha |
| 02:06 |
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JoshB_ joined #koha |
| 02:06 |
|
irma |
welcome back rangi :-) Another great Koha conference !! |
| 02:06 |
|
irma |
Are you feeling ok? Or still in transit? |
| 02:06 |
|
irma |
I mean, body back home but not really home yet ... |
| 02:06 |
|
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jajm joined #koha |
| 02:06 |
|
rangi |
still pretty jetlagged |
| 02:07 |
|
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fredericdem joined #koha |
| 02:07 |
|
tcohen |
wb rangi! |
| 02:08 |
|
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BobB joined #koha |
| 02:09 |
|
mtompset |
Greetings, irma rangi tcohen. :) |
| 02:10 |
|
mtompset |
And BobB :) |
| 02:10 |
|
tcohen |
hi mtompset |
| 02:10 |
|
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ashimema joined #koha |
| 02:12 |
|
BobB |
hi mtompset |
| 02:13 |
|
mtompset |
tcohen: I've got the start of an OpacHiddenItems filter on bug 16335... just have to plan out the integration and testing. :) |
| 02:13 |
|
huginn` |
Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=16335 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, ASSIGNED , Refactor OpacHiddenItems |
| 02:14 |
|
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rocio left #koha |
| 02:17 |
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mtj joined #koha |
| 02:18 |
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kathryn joined #koha |
| 02:18 |
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wizzyrea joined #koha |
| 02:19 |
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jenkins_koha joined #koha |
| 02:22 |
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alohalog` joined #koha |
| 02:41 |
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Francesca joined #koha |
| 03:00 |
|
mtompset |
Well, I'm going to finish my netflix video and get to bed. Have a great day (24 hour period), #koha |
| 04:47 |
|
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drojf joined #koha |
| 04:47 |
|
drojf |
morning #koha |
| 04:56 |
|
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kathryn_ joined #koha |
| 05:04 |
|
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Francesca joined #koha |
| 05:09 |
|
drojf |
wizzyrea++ |
| 05:58 |
|
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cait joined #koha |
| 06:07 |
|
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laurence joined #koha |
| 06:22 |
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fridolin joined #koha |
| 06:22 |
|
fridolin |
hie |
| 06:28 |
|
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LibraryClaire joined #koha |
| 06:29 |
|
LibraryClaire |
Morning #koha |
| 06:36 |
|
drojf |
guten morgen LibraryClaire |
| 06:36 |
|
LibraryClaire |
Guten morgen drojf |
| 06:43 |
|
* cait |
waves and runs out |
| 06:51 |
|
|
reiveune joined #koha |
| 06:51 |
|
reiveune |
hello |
| 06:52 |
|
LibraryClaire |
Hi reiveune |
| 06:53 |
|
reiveune |
salut LibraryClaire |
| 06:53 |
|
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wilfrid joined #koha |
| 07:09 |
|
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barbara_ joined #koha |
| 07:09 |
|
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alex_a joined #koha |
| 07:10 |
|
alex_a |
bonjour |
| 07:10 |
|
wahanui |
salut, alex_a |
| 07:34 |
|
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alex_a_ joined #koha |
| 08:02 |
|
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Francesca joined #koha |
| 08:05 |
|
eythian |
I could still be asleep right now |
| 08:06 |
|
liw |
I would be, were it not for an uncaring world and thunderstorm |
| 08:07 |
|
|
Diman joined #koha |
| 08:07 |
|
eythian |
it's warm and humid here, the forecast thunderstorms almost never appear. |
| 08:07 |
|
eythian |
actually, not that warm. It just felt it biking in I guess. |
| 08:07 |
|
eythian |
@wunder ams |
| 08:07 |
|
huginn` |
eythian: The current temperature in Schiphol, Badhoevedorp, Netherlands is 17.2°C (9:57 AM CEST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Steady). |
| 08:08 |
|
liw |
@wunder helsinki |
| 08:08 |
|
huginn` |
liw: The current temperature in Helsinki, Finland is 13.0°C (10:50 AM EEST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.68 in 1005 hPa (Steady). |
| 08:22 |
|
drojf |
@wunder berlin, germany |
| 08:22 |
|
huginn` |
drojf: The current temperature in Berlin Tegel, Germany is 22.0°C (9:50 AM CEST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 46%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Steady). |
| 08:22 |
|
drojf |
oh, irc meeting |
| 08:24 |
|
|
LibraryClaire joined #koha |
| 08:26 |
|
barbara_ |
Good morning from the shinny limassol - Cyprus :) |
| 08:27 |
|
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LibraryClaire1 joined #koha |
| 08:39 |
|
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magnuse joined #koha |
| 08:39 |
|
* magnuse |
waves from oslo |
| 08:50 |
|
magnuse |
libraries that are open without any staff, is that a thing outside scandinavia too? |
| 08:51 |
|
eythian |
I'm not aware of it, but it wouldn't be impossible in small towns I expect. |
| 08:55 |
|
|
davidnind joined #koha |
| 09:04 |
|
magnuse |
eythian: hehe, it's a big thing here |
| 09:04 |
|
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drojf joined #koha |
| 09:05 |
|
magnuse |
you have to sign in with your library card and pin code, but then you typically get access to the library from 7 am to 11 pm, even if the staff is only there from 8 am to 4 pm |
| 09:05 |
|
drojf |
hi again |
| 09:05 |
|
magnuse |
moin drojf |
| 09:05 |
|
drojf |
hei magnuse |
| 09:10 |
|
* magnuse |
is promoting himself at a library conf mostly about electronic journals and open access |
| 09:11 |
|
magnuse |
the conf is in the building of the CS department of the university of oslo |
| 09:11 |
|
magnuse |
rooms here have names like shell, sed and perl :-) |
| 09:12 |
|
drojf |
cool :D |
| 09:12 |
|
magnuse |
the buliding is named after the guy who invented object oriented programming |
| 09:17 |
|
drojf |
magnuse: are you speaking there? |
| 09:20 |
|
magnuse |
nope, i just have a stand as part of the exhibition |
| 09:23 |
|
drojf |
ah ok |
| 09:39 |
|
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alex_a joined #koha |
| 09:41 |
|
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mveron joined #koha |
| 09:41 |
|
mveron |
Hi #koha |
| 09:49 |
|
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thd joined #koha |
| 09:57 |
|
mveron |
@wunder Allschwil |
| 09:57 |
|
huginn` |
mveron: The current temperature in Grenchen, Switzerland is 17.0°C (11:50 AM CEST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 30.15 in 1021 hPa (Steady). |
| 10:01 |
|
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Francesca joined #koha |
| 10:07 |
|
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thd` joined #koha |
| 10:08 |
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schnydszch joined #koha |
| 10:09 |
|
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cait joined #koha |
| 10:09 |
|
* cait |
waves |
| 10:10 |
|
* mveron |
waves |
| 10:10 |
|
cait |
do we have a meeting? |
| 10:10 |
|
thd` |
One is scheduled. |
| 10:11 |
|
cait |
i just saw the email |
| 10:11 |
|
cait |
if enough people are here we can have one |
| 10:11 |
|
cait |
but i have to grab the delivered lunch first to keep it save :) |
| 10:11 |
|
cait |
or someone else can chair of course |
| 10:12 |
|
davidnind |
hopefully there are enough of us |
| 10:13 |
|
thd` |
People who have the delivered lunch should be awake enough to chair ;) |
| 10:14 |
|
cait |
ok back |
| 10:14 |
|
cait |
but... it's getting cold! :) |
| 10:14 |
|
cait |
#startmeeting General IRC Meeting, 8 June 2016 |
| 10:14 |
|
huginn` |
Meeting started Wed Jun 8 10:14:43 2016 UTC. The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 10:14 |
|
huginn` |
Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. |
| 10:14 |
|
|
Topic for #koha is now (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting, 8 June 2016) |
| 10:14 |
|
huginn` |
The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting__8_june_2016' |
| 10:14 |
|
cait |
#topic introductions |
| 10:14 |
|
wahanui |
#info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient |
| 10:14 |
|
|
Topic for #koha is now introductions (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting, 8 June 2016) |
| 10:14 |
|
cait |
please introduce yourself with #info |
| 10:15 |
|
cait |
today's agenda can be found at |
| 10:15 |
|
cait |
#link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]eting_8_June_2016 |
| 10:15 |
|
cait |
and davidnind++ for sending the reminder |
| 10:15 |
|
thd |
#info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City |
| 10:15 |
|
davidnind |
#info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand |
| 10:16 |
|
schnydszch |
#info Eugene Espinoza - Manila, Philippines |
| 10:16 |
|
cait |
#info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany |
| 10:16 |
|
mveron |
@info Marc Véron, Koha Support Schweiz, Allschwil |
| 10:16 |
|
huginn` |
mveron: Error: The command "info" is available in the Factoids and RSS plugins. Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "info". |
| 10:16 |
|
mveron |
#info Marc Véron, Koha Support Schweiz, Allschwil |
| 10:16 |
|
mveron |
:-) |
| 10:17 |
|
cait |
khall: ? |
| 10:17 |
|
khall |
mornin! |
| 10:18 |
|
cait |
drojf: ping |
| 10:18 |
|
|
indradg joined #koha |
| 10:18 |
|
cait |
ok, moving on |
| 10:18 |
|
drojf |
ah |
| 10:18 |
|
cait |
ah or not |
| 10:18 |
|
drojf |
so late, oops |
| 10:19 |
|
drojf |
#info Mirko Tietgen, koha.abunchofthings.net, Berlin, Germany |
| 10:19 |
|
khall |
#info Kyle M Hall, Bywater Solutions |
| 10:19 |
|
cait |
ok |
| 10:19 |
|
cait |
so moving on now :) |
| 10:19 |
|
cait |
#topic Announcements |
| 10:19 |
|
|
Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting, 8 June 2016) |
| 10:19 |
|
indradg |
#info Indranil Das Gupta, L2C2 Technologies, India |
| 10:20 |
|
cait |
not much from me - QA queue is pretty full, hopefully it will normalize soon to a lower number again |
| 10:21 |
|
cait |
any other announcements? |
| 10:22 |
|
cait |
moving on |
| 10:22 |
|
cait |
#topic Update on releases |
| 10:22 |
|
|
Topic for #koha is now Update on releases (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting, 8 June 2016) |
| 10:22 |
|
cait |
hm no rm, any rmaints? |
| 10:23 |
|
cait |
ok, 16.05 has been released |
| 10:24 |
|
cait |
packages are available, but i think without the packages for elastic so far |
| 10:24 |
|
cait |
there are quite a few problems when you try to install Koha on Ubuntu 16.04 right now - because of the newer MySQL version (5.6+) - but there are quite a few patches underway to help with that |
| 10:25 |
|
cait |
does someone want to add something? |
| 10:25 |
|
cait |
anyone still awake? |
| 10:26 |
|
cait |
#topic KohaCon16 |
| 10:26 |
|
|
Topic for #koha is now KohaCon16 (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting, 8 June 2016) |
| 10:26 |
|
davidnind |
yep, still awake... |
| 10:26 |
|
cait |
kohacon16_organizers++ |
| 10:26 |
|
cait |
auth_library++ ikourmu++ |
| 10:26 |
|
drojf |
good kohacon, would go again |
| 10:26 |
|
thd |
Still not quite asleep but not quite awake here. |
| 10:26 |
|
mveron |
streaming ++ |
| 10:26 |
|
cait |
overall very good organization |
| 10:27 |
|
davidnind |
streaming+++ worked really well |
| 10:27 |
|
cait |
lots of interesting presentations - I can recommend watching the videos! :) |
| 10:28 |
|
mveron |
http://www.livemedia.com/kohacon16 |
| 10:28 |
|
cait |
#link http://www.livemedia.com/kohacon16 |
| 10:28 |
|
drojf |
#link http://www.livemedia.com/kohacon16 |
| 10:28 |
|
drojf |
hmpf |
| 10:28 |
|
cait |
heh |
| 10:28 |
|
cait |
ok |
| 10:28 |
|
Diman |
#info Dimitris Antonakis, Athens, Greece |
| 10:28 |
|
cait |
moving on? |
| 10:29 |
|
* cait |
waves :) |
| 10:29 |
|
cait |
#topic KohaCon17 |
| 10:29 |
|
|
Topic for #koha is now KohaCon17 (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting, 8 June 2016) |
| 10:29 |
|
|
alex_a_ joined #koha |
| 10:29 |
|
cait |
#info drojf sent a reminder to the list asking for more bids |
| 10:29 |
|
cait |
drojf++ |
| 10:29 |
|
drojf |
two bids, only one valid if we go with the continent switching thing |
| 10:29 |
|
cait |
correct |
| 10:30 |
|
drojf |
we need to set a deadline |
| 10:30 |
|
drojf |
or have we done that already? |
| 10:30 |
|
cait |
#info curently one bid for 2016: Manila, Philippines |
| 10:30 |
|
cait |
no i think we haven't |
| 10:30 |
|
drojf |
i think we used to do that septemberish? |
| 10:30 |
|
drojf |
end of september, or is that too late? |
| 10:31 |
|
cait |
the urrent bid is for september |
| 10:31 |
|
cait |
so in that case it would probably be ok |
| 10:31 |
|
schnydszch |
#info we can make it earlier |
| 10:31 |
|
cait |
it depends if another would want to make it earlier |
| 10:31 |
|
cait |
schnydszch: conf or vote? |
| 10:31 |
|
schnydszch |
the 2017 conf, at least for our bid |
| 10:31 |
|
schnydszch |
for the Philippines bid |
| 10:31 |
|
drojf |
i think we had september last year and that worked fine for a conference in june |
| 10:32 |
|
mveron |
Yes, last time was voting in september: https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]haCon16_Proposals |
| 10:32 |
|
cait |
ij |
| 10:32 |
|
cait |
sorry, fingers wrong on the keyboard |
| 10:32 |
|
schnydszch |
June will be fine, still Summer during that time in the Philippines, well, climate change-thing |
| 10:33 |
|
drojf |
thanks mveron, just looked it up |
| 10:33 |
|
drojf |
so end of august maybe for deadline |
| 10:33 |
|
cait |
which date are we discussing? |
| 10:33 |
|
cait |
deadline for bids, deadline for vote? |
| 10:33 |
|
schnydszch |
I'm speaking of our bid, sorry |
| 10:33 |
|
drojf |
" bidding for Kohacon 2016 locations will end one week after the August 2015 general IRC meeting. If you want to host Kohacon 2016, add your proposal to the wiki[1] now and announce it on the general mailing list, so people know about it. No proposals will be accepted after 12 August 2015, 22 UTC." |
| 10:34 |
|
drojf |
from last year |
| 10:34 |
|
drojf |
it was earlier than i thought |
| 10:34 |
|
drojf |
we could just go with the "one week after august meeting" |
| 10:34 |
|
drojf |
so we would have two more meetings before |
| 10:35 |
|
drojf |
does that make sense? |
| 10:35 |
|
cait |
ok |
| 10:35 |
|
mveron |
I think so |
| 10:35 |
|
cait |
but the date won't be set then until the meeting |
| 10:35 |
|
cait |
maybe we should set an august date to make things easier |
| 10:35 |
|
cait |
and with timezones... probably should be clear :) |
| 10:36 |
|
drojf |
i don't think that is a problem really if we set it with the meeting date at the next meeting? |
| 10:36 |
|
cait |
ok |
| 10:36 |
|
drojf |
next meeting we agree on the general irc meeting date for august, plus one week for bids. should work? |
| 10:36 |
|
cait |
i am logging an agreed if noone is against it? |
| 10:36 |
|
drojf |
and its anounced > a month before |
| 10:37 |
|
drojf |
we could vote on it |
| 10:37 |
|
cait |
#agreed the deadline for bids will be one week after the august meeting - exact date to be set next meeting |
| 10:37 |
|
thd |
Did my connection die again? |
| 10:37 |
|
cait |
you didn't leave |
| 10:38 |
|
drojf |
ok then we have to get the voring thing done soon :P |
| 10:38 |
|
drojf |
voring |
| 10:38 |
|
drojf |
arrrr |
| 10:38 |
|
drojf |
voting |
| 10:39 |
|
cait |
the decision? yes |
| 10:39 |
|
cait |
next meeting |
| 10:39 |
|
cait |
could we do a vote about the vote? ;) |
| 10:39 |
|
drojf |
we should vote today for two general options |
| 10:39 |
|
drojf |
so we have it easier next time |
| 10:39 |
|
cait |
i don'rt care so much about the mechanism we choose, but it hink it shoudl be clear before the voting begins |
| 10:39 |
|
cait |
ok |
| 10:39 |
|
cait |
so can you presentt he 2 general options quickly? |
| 10:40 |
|
mveron |
https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]sses_for_KohaCons |
| 10:40 |
|
cait |
#link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]sses_for_KohaCons |
| 10:41 |
|
drojf |
what we should decide today is: do we want to have a voring mechanism that distinguishes between "yes", "no" and "maybe", or only "yes" and "no" |
| 10:41 |
|
cait |
hm ok |
| 10:41 |
|
cait |
so we got 2 options: yes/no and yes/no/maybe ? |
| 10:41 |
|
drojf |
and then choose the exact option next time. otherwise we will have 2 hours of discussions next time and nothing in the end. like always |
| 10:41 |
|
thd |
That is a false distinction. |
| 10:42 |
|
drojf |
you did not enter anything else. it is in the wiki and has been for at least two months |
| 10:42 |
|
thd |
The options as described do not necessarily lead to the results presumed. |
| 10:42 |
|
drojf |
i am not an expert in voting schemes, i just want to have some general rule how to set it up. before we start voting |
| 10:42 |
|
thd |
I know, I have been helping a friend avoid eviction. |
| 10:43 |
|
thd |
Where is slef when we need him? |
| 10:43 |
|
cait |
he hasn't been around in quite a while |
| 10:43 |
|
drojf |
and the only contribution from your side is that you say its not enough. and you helped a friend with their eviction. which is a very noble cause, but in no way related to koha and does not get us anywhere |
| 10:43 |
|
thd |
I know :) |
| 10:44 |
|
drojf |
sorry if that sounds rude, but the only person trying to get this anywhere is myself, because i might set upo the vote and THEN have people complaining they wanted a different scheme ;) |
| 10:44 |
|
mveron |
IMO yes/no/maybe would work fine |
| 10:44 |
|
thd |
All the options are underdescribed and thus prevent an informed vote on their face. |
| 10:45 |
|
drojf |
nobody took the time to describe them any further |
| 10:45 |
|
drojf |
its not going to happen until next time |
| 10:45 |
|
drojf |
i brought that up right after the last vote |
| 10:45 |
|
drojf |
and we never did |
| 10:45 |
|
* cait |
nods |
| 10:45 |
|
cait |
it's true |
| 10:45 |
|
wahanui |
I saw it on Digg! |
| 10:45 |
|
cait |
we have been discussing this since the last vote, we need to make a decision |
| 10:46 |
|
thd |
I know I should have taken some time to at least link to a fuller discussion of comparable options on Wikipedia. |
| 10:46 |
|
drojf |
the options i present are the basic options we discussed last time. or the main difference between them |
| 10:46 |
|
drojf |
if you want to have other ones, there is plenty of time after the next vote :) |
| 10:46 |
|
drojf |
no problem in making them better, but so far we have none |
| 10:46 |
|
drojf |
and that is not enough |
| 10:47 |
|
thd |
Reading the choices as described is not enough to understand how they work mathematically and omits how they are counted in every case. |
| 10:47 |
|
drojf |
true, as that is not part of the choices atm |
| 10:48 |
|
cait |
I don#t actually have the time to get into voting mechanisms to be honest |
| 10:48 |
|
drojf |
nobody has |
| 10:48 |
|
cait |
but it hink we need to be clear about what we will use, even if it's to the most ideal one |
| 10:48 |
|
drojf |
that is why nobody has done it for a full year |
| 10:49 |
|
thd |
Options 1, 2, and 4 are all score voting which can be easily gamed but would be good for building consensus over multiple votes. |
| 10:49 |
|
drojf |
trust me, the more interesting gaming part is getting the fakes out of the votes |
| 10:50 |
|
drojf |
the mechanism has not been relevant in both votes i managed |
| 10:50 |
|
drojf |
but it could be of course |
| 10:50 |
|
thd |
Option 3 is the only one although with many variants used in government elections. |
| 10:51 |
|
cait |
hm whta i see would be like 3 options |
| 10:51 |
|
cait |
y/n, y/n/m and rank |
| 10:51 |
|
cait |
well rank all / don't rank all |
| 10:51 |
|
thd |
There is no perfectly correct voting system possible but the problems of each should be at least linked. |
| 10:52 |
|
thd |
If people are not forced to rank all then you have the equivalent of score voting. |
| 10:53 |
|
thd |
If a significant number of 'fakes' would go undetected score voting may maximise the problem with fakes. |
| 10:54 |
|
thd |
Forcing even 'fakes' to rank all options would reduce gaming. |
| 10:54 |
|
thd |
However, If we would have only two options then there would be not much of an issue. |
| 10:54 |
|
drojf |
so far we have 1 |
| 10:54 |
|
drojf |
lol |
| 10:55 |
|
cait |
thd: the fakes are human |
| 10:55 |
|
cait |
in our case |
| 10:55 |
|
cait |
humans multiple voting |
| 10:55 |
|
cait |
whatever scheme we choose, will be gameable, unless we remove fakes by ip/email address checking or similar |
| 10:55 |
|
thd |
I know that the fakes we have had are humans ;) |
| 10:56 |
|
drojf |
maybe a short question to the audience |
| 10:57 |
|
thd |
The downside of score voting is if people do not vote honestly but vote strategically. |
| 10:57 |
|
davidnind |
method first I think, then work out way to minimise fakes |
| 10:57 |
|
drojf |
who here knows what they would choose, and who cares at all? |
| 10:57 |
|
|
magnuse joined #koha |
| 10:58 |
|
thd |
Strategic voting is most difficult with option 3 but would still need a counting method. |
| 10:58 |
|
|
bgkriegel joined #koha |
| 10:58 |
|
cait |
I feel like i might be missing something |
| 10:58 |
|
* mveron |
has to leave - and would vote vor y/n/m |
| 10:58 |
|
cait |
i am not sure what we try to prevent here |
| 10:58 |
|
mveron |
Bye #koha |
| 10:58 |
|
cait |
if i don't want to go to one locationand don't wnat to gvie it poitns - would that be strategic voting... and what is bad about it? |
| 10:59 |
|
thd |
Have we always used some variant of option 3 in the past for KohaCon with the issue then being how we counted the votes? |
| 11:00 |
|
thd |
The problem is only when some people vote strategically and others vote honestly. |
| 11:00 |
|
drojf |
what does that mean? |
| 11:00 |
|
|
LibraryClaire joined #koha |
| 11:01 |
|
thd |
It may be less of an issue if the range is only 1 and 0. |
| 11:01 |
|
davidnind |
I don't really understand the nuance about 'strategic' voting, or voting 'honestly' - vote is a vote? |
| 11:01 |
|
drojf |
strategically vs honestly? |
| 11:01 |
|
LibraryClaire |
hello |
| 11:01 |
|
magnuse |
#info Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway |
| 11:01 |
|
drojf |
hi LibraryClaire. we are in a meeting, you should introduce yourself |
| 11:02 |
|
|
aliki joined #koha |
| 11:02 |
|
thd |
If I choose to vote strategically I would vote the maximum value permitted for my preferred choice and minimum for all others. |
| 11:02 |
|
LibraryClaire |
#info Claire Gravely, UAL, UK |
| 11:02 |
|
cait |
yeah.. but if you only woudl attend that one kohacon? |
| 11:03 |
|
cait |
in that place? |
| 11:03 |
|
cait |
i am not sure I understand why this is a bad thing in itself |
| 11:03 |
|
drojf |
thd: yes, the question is kind of, do people want to have that or not. i am fine with all options, but we should have a rule. because so far, after the vote starts, people complain that it is the one way or the other |
| 11:03 |
|
drojf |
and i dont see why i should not vote maximum for the one location i can go |
| 11:04 |
|
drojf |
that is what people do |
| 11:04 |
|
thd |
Honest voters who give every candidate due consideration have the strength of their vote diluted. |
| 11:04 |
|
drojf |
what is honest about that? |
| 11:04 |
|
drojf |
that term does not make any sense in that context |
| 11:04 |
|
bgkriegel |
#info Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel, Córdoba, Argentina |
| 11:05 |
|
drojf |
hi bgkriegel |
| 11:05 |
|
thd |
'Honest' means in this case not disproportionately artificially lowering the vote given to lesser preferences. |
| 11:05 |
|
bgkriegel |
hi drojf ! |
| 11:06 |
|
cait |
hi bernardo :) |
| 11:06 |
|
drojf |
how is that more honest than vote for the place i wanna go and null for the others? |
| 11:06 |
|
thd |
'Strategic' voting boosts the overall strength of each strategic vote. |
| 11:07 |
|
thd |
drojf: If that is your true position to give all weight to one candidate then voting that way is fine. |
| 11:07 |
|
|
indradg joined #koha |
| 11:07 |
|
|
ablj joined #koha |
| 11:08 |
|
cait |
ok, so maybe first question is |
| 11:08 |
|
cait |
do we want ranking? |
| 11:08 |
|
eythian |
just use STV and be done with it unless there's only a couple of options in which case it doesn't matter anyway, it's not really a matter that requires so much wasted time discussing it. |
| 11:08 |
|
cait |
or do we want to say yes/no/(maybe) |
| 11:08 |
|
thd |
The problem comes when others do not express their vote as strongly and consequently have their vote diminished in the counting. |
| 11:08 |
|
cait |
eythian: what is stv? |
| 11:08 |
|
thd |
We have always used ranking in some form for voting on KohaCon. |
| 11:08 |
|
cait |
not true |
| 11:08 |
|
cait |
we had yes/no last time |
| 11:08 |
|
eythian |
cait: order your preferences from 1 to n, or similar. |
| 11:09 |
|
thd |
Almost always :) |
| 11:09 |
|
drojf |
i am fine with ranking all, i just want a decision :P |
| 11:09 |
|
drojf |
before the vote is conducted |
| 11:09 |
|
drojf |
we can just choose to go with that if its what people prefer |
| 11:10 |
|
cait |
eythian: so that's rank all then? |
| 11:10 |
|
drojf |
and who wants to veto has to write a 20 page proposal for next year |
| 11:10 |
|
thd |
I would like to suggest ranking with the same counting method used in the Debian community. |
| 11:10 |
|
drojf |
what counting method may that be? |
| 11:10 |
|
eythian |
cait: I think it's usually implemented as being allowed to skip, but it doesn't matter. |
| 11:10 |
|
* thd |
checks. |
| 11:10 |
|
drojf |
it does matter |
| 11:11 |
|
eythian |
everyone loves bikeshedding voting discussions. |
| 11:11 |
|
drojf |
because that will be the point people complain about then :P |
| 11:11 |
|
drojf |
ok. proposal: |
| 11:11 |
|
cait |
ok |
| 11:11 |
|
cait |
so lets vote ranking or yes/no/(maybe) to limit this down a bit |
| 11:11 |
|
davidnind |
my view - keep as simple as possible: either yes/no, or rank options from 1 to 3 for example if three proposals |
| 11:11 |
|
cait |
#startvote Which voting method do you prefer? (rank, options) |
| 11:11 |
|
huginn` |
Begin voting on: Which voting method do you prefer? Valid vote options are , rank, options, . |
| 11:11 |
|
huginn` |
Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. |
| 11:12 |
|
drojf |
two votes. first: yes/whatever/no or ranking. second: depending on first: yes/no or yes/maybe/no OR ranking/all or ranking/skip |
| 11:12 |
|
cait |
#vote rank |
| 11:12 |
|
drojf |
#vote rank |
| 11:12 |
|
LibraryClaire |
#vote rank |
| 11:13 |
|
davidnind |
#vote rank |
| 11:13 |
|
khall |
#vote rank |
| 11:13 |
|
eythian |
#vote rank |
| 11:13 |
|
thd |
#vote rank |
| 11:13 |
|
Diman |
#vote rank |
| 11:13 |
|
cait |
waiting a few more seconds... |
| 11:13 |
|
schnydszch |
#vote rank |
| 11:13 |
|
indradg |
#vote rank |
| 11:13 |
|
cait |
#endvote |
| 11:13 |
|
huginn` |
Voted on "Which voting method do you prefer?" Results are |
| 11:13 |
|
huginn` |
rank (10): LibraryClaire, davidnind, cait, eythian, khall, indradg, thd, drojf, Diman, schnydszch |
| 11:14 |
|
cait |
#agreed the voting mechanism will be 'ranking' |
| 11:14 |
|
druthb |
o/ |
| 11:14 |
|
drojf |
look, that was easy |
| 11:14 |
|
khall |
hi druthb! |
| 11:14 |
|
cait |
ok, now rank all or rank the one you want to go to? |
| 11:14 |
|
drojf |
so do all vs skip and we are done :) |
| 11:14 |
|
thd |
Debian uses the Condorcet method with a Schulze count if I am not mistaken. |
| 11:14 |
|
druthb |
hiyas. |
| 11:14 |
|
cait |
or all vs skip yep |
| 11:14 |
|
cait |
#startvote Do you want to rank all (all) or be able to not rank those you wouldn't be able to attend (skip) (all,skip)? |
| 11:14 |
|
huginn` |
Begin voting on: Do you want to rank all (all) or be able to not rank those you wouldn't be able to attend (skip) (all,skip)? Valid vote options are Yes, No. |
| 11:14 |
|
huginn` |
Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. |
| 11:15 |
|
thd |
If you do not rank all then you have score voting. |
| 11:15 |
|
thd |
You do not have rank voting if you do not rank all. |
| 11:15 |
|
thd |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet_criterion |
| 11:15 |
|
davidnind |
#vote all |
| 11:15 |
|
cait |
#vote all |
| 11:15 |
|
LibraryClaire |
#vote all |
| 11:15 |
|
thd |
#vote all |
| 11:16 |
|
schnydszch |
#vote all |
| 11:16 |
|
Diman |
#vote all |
| 11:16 |
|
thd |
Ranking only one reduces to 'strategic' score voting. |
| 11:16 |
|
cait |
ending vote in a quick moment |
| 11:17 |
|
cait |
#endvote |
| 11:17 |
|
huginn` |
Voted on "Do you want to rank all (all) or be able to not rank those you wouldn't be able to attend (skip) (all,skip)?" Results are |
| 11:17 |
|
cait |
#agreed The ranking will require to rank all bidders/locations. |
| 11:17 |
|
thd |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schulze_method |
| 11:17 |
|
drojf |
thanks |
| 11:17 |
|
drojf |
that was easy. only took 8 months :P |
| 11:17 |
|
cait |
shouldn't ask - but is the points given to each clear then? |
| 11:18 |
|
|
JoshB joined #koha |
| 11:18 |
|
thd |
The count is not clear without specifying. |
| 11:18 |
|
eythian |
cait: what is your question? |
| 11:18 |
|
drojf |
we have not discussed that. :P |
| 11:18 |
|
cait |
eythian: how points will be given |
| 11:19 |
|
eythian |
cait: ranking is not allocating points |
| 11:19 |
|
cait |
i think we shoudl discuss counting at the nextmeeting tho |
| 11:19 |
|
drojf |
eythian: you could count more points for rank 1 than rank 2. |
| 11:19 |
|
cait |
eythian: how do you see who won? |
| 11:20 |
|
eythian |
drojf: no, that's not how you do it |
| 11:20 |
|
eythian |
a meeting is not the place for this though :) |
| 11:20 |
|
drojf |
eythian: its possible and a thing people do |
| 11:20 |
|
|
JoshB left #koha |
| 11:20 |
|
drojf |
but we reached the decision for today. if anyone wants to bring that up next time, alright. i would not ;) |
| 11:21 |
|
|
thd` joined #koha |
| 11:21 |
|
drojf |
next topic? :) |
| 11:21 |
|
thd` |
What just happened? My connection dropped. |
| 11:22 |
|
|
nengard joined #koha |
| 11:22 |
|
thd` |
We still need a counting system. |
| 11:22 |
|
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deb-CSPL joined #koha |
| 11:22 |
|
thd` |
I suggest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schulze_method which is used by Debian and some other software communities. |
| 11:22 |
|
cait |
phone |
| 11:22 |
|
cait |
#chair drojf |
| 11:22 |
|
huginn` |
Current chairs: cait drojf |
| 11:24 |
|
davidnind |
My opinion - way to complicated for what we are trying to achieve + we have already voted |
| 11:25 |
|
davidnind |
This is my summary with an example of what we voted for: example 3 choices (proposals) - rank 1, 2 and 3 for the 3 options however you choose (have to rank all), proposal with the highest count 'wins'? |
| 11:25 |
|
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thd`` joined #koha |
| 11:26 |
|
thd`` |
The counting method can actually change the outcome in ranked voting so it is important to use one which seems to give a fair result expressing people's actual preferences in as wide a range of actual circumstances as possible. |
| 11:26 |
|
drojf |
oh why did i become chair? cait gone? |
| 11:26 |
|
drojf |
ah phone |
| 11:26 |
|
drojf |
ok next topic |
| 11:26 |
|
wahanui |
hmmm... next topic is a tricky one... |
| 11:26 |
|
thd`` |
I am having real trouble staying connected today. |
| 11:27 |
|
drojf |
we had a lot of fakes last time, and the question was, if we would take more info this time for people voting |
| 11:27 |
|
thd |
Do we still lack a counting method for ranked voting? Are we deferring the issue of counting method? |
| 11:28 |
|
drojf |
so far we only had an email address (and ip addresses and referrers). do you consider it good or bad to also get the name and maybe institution of people voting? |
| 11:28 |
|
drojf |
i would like to do that (if i conduct the vote), because its way more work for fakes. the will still be there of course |
| 11:29 |
|
drojf |
but i would be interested in your opinion about it. any cons? |
| 11:30 |
|
thd |
We should collect as much brief information as we can reasonably and privately without overburdoning the process for everyone. |
| 11:30 |
|
cait |
institution would leave out people interested comeing 'themselves' maybe |
| 11:30 |
|
cait |
still phone sorry |
| 11:30 |
|
eythian |
just so long as it would be clear that it's OK for anyone not attached to an institution to have a procedure |
| 11:30 |
|
davidnind |
some people are not part of organisations, so could be optional |
| 11:31 |
|
drojf |
good point |
| 11:31 |
|
thd |
A note would be needed for institution allowing none, blank, individual, or some equivalent. |
| 11:31 |
|
|
jzairo joined #koha |
| 11:31 |
|
drojf |
if it's ok to have none, it's probably not worth bothering some about it? |
| 11:32 |
|
eythian |
could you check for a valid email, or does that then become a Lot More Work? |
| 11:33 |
|
thd |
How advantageous might such a field be for identifying fakes or encouraging people to be honest and avoiding fakes in the first place? |
| 11:33 |
|
drojf |
ok. i would not vote on that. if necessary we could do that next time. just think about it |
| 11:33 |
|
drojf |
eythian: valid email format yes, valid email like click a link in the email probably not, and not worth it |
| 11:33 |
|
drojf |
in my experience people just use work and private email |
| 11:33 |
|
drojf |
or several of those |
| 11:33 |
|
eythian |
true |
| 11:34 |
|
davidnind |
the joys of 'online voting'! |
| 11:34 |
|
drojf |
thd: if you can leave it blank, probably not so much. i can't assume somebody to be more of a fake for not filling a non-required field |
| 11:34 |
|
drojf |
and they could just put whatever anyway |
| 11:34 |
|
drojf |
i'll think about it for next time |
| 11:34 |
|
drojf |
moving on? |
| 11:35 |
|
davidnind |
yes please |
| 11:35 |
|
drojf |
#topic Actions from General IRC meeting 6 April 2016 (deferred) and General IRC meeting 4 May 2016 (none) |
| 11:35 |
|
|
Topic for #koha is now Actions from General IRC meeting 6 April 2016 (deferred) and General IRC meeting 4 May 2016 (none) (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting, 8 June 2016) |
| 11:35 |
|
thd |
However, would people be discouraged from faking or hesitate to fake from having the question of institution put to them? |
| 11:35 |
|
drojf |
there seem to be none |
| 11:35 |
|
drojf |
that was the last point on the agenda |
| 11:36 |
|
drojf |
we need a date for next time |
| 11:36 |
|
drojf |
#topic next meeting |
| 11:36 |
|
|
Topic for #koha is now next meeting (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting, 8 June 2016) |
| 11:36 |
|
eythian |
http://www.scientificamerican.[…]ou-better-person/ <-- just put a giant eye on the page |
| 11:36 |
|
drojf |
july 6, 20 UTC? |
| 11:37 |
|
drojf |
please do a +1 or something ;) |
| 11:37 |
|
bgkriegel |
+1 |
| 11:37 |
|
drojf |
waiting for another minute or its decided ;) |
| 11:38 |
|
davidnind |
+1 |
| 11:38 |
|
LibraryClaire |
+1 |
| 11:38 |
|
davidnind |
something :) |
| 11:38 |
|
drojf |
#agreed next meeting july 6, 20 UTC |
| 11:38 |
|
drojf |
#endmeeting |
| 11:38 |
|
|
Topic for #koha is now Welcome to the #koha IRC chat | Code of conduct - https://koha-community.org/abo[…]/code-of-conduct/ | Please use http://paste.koha-community.org for pastes | Installation guide for Koha is https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Debian |
| 11:38 |
|
huginn` |
Meeting ended Wed Jun 8 11:38:41 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 11:38 |
|
huginn` |
Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community[…]-06-08-10.14.html |
| 11:38 |
|
huginn` |
Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]6-06-08-10.14.txt |
| 11:38 |
|
huginn` |
Log: http://meetings.koha-community[…]08-10.14.log.html |
| 11:38 |
|
drojf |
thanks everyone |
| 11:38 |
|
davidnind |
cait++ |
| 11:39 |
|
davidnind |
drojf++ |
| 11:39 |
|
cait |
drojf++ thx for taking over |
| 11:40 |
|
druthb |
crojf++ |
| 11:40 |
|
druthb |
drofj++ #can't type; has a dumb |
| 11:40 |
|
druthb |
cait++ |
| 11:41 |
|
eythian |
@karma crojf |
| 11:41 |
|
huginn` |
eythian: Karma for "crojf" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1. |
| 11:41 |
|
|
thd` joined #koha |
| 11:41 |
|
druthb |
:P |
| 11:41 |
|
eythian |
@karma drofj |
| 11:41 |
|
huginn` |
eythian: Karma for "drofj" has been increased 3 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 3. |
| 11:41 |
|
eythian |
a more popular typo |
| 11:41 |
|
drojf |
lol |
| 11:42 |
|
LibraryClaire |
cait++ |
| 11:42 |
|
LibraryClaire |
drojf++ |
| 11:42 |
|
LibraryClaire |
sorry for turning up late - I was stuck on the underground |
| 11:42 |
|
thd` |
Do we have a date for the next meeting? |
| 11:43 |
|
eythian |
wahanui: logs |
| 11:43 |
|
wahanui |
logs is http://irc.koha-community.org/koha/ |
| 11:43 |
|
* thd` |
keeps losing the connection. |
| 11:44 |
|
thd` |
As I feared, my friend is in court that day. |
| 11:47 |
|
thd |
Sorry to all for not having had more time to put voting issues in the wiki and also bring them up on the mailing list. |
| 11:48 |
|
drojf |
thd: plenty of time for the kohacon 2018 vote if you feel like it |
| 11:50 |
|
thd |
drojf: I know. The last few weeks have left me extraordinarily sleep deprived trying to find a lawyer for my friend. |
| 11:50 |
|
eythian |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5HX67WqUSY <-- drojf, apropos of nothing |
| 11:54 |
|
thd |
eythian: Twice as funny for being a parody based upon the work of copyright maximalist musicians. |
| 11:55 |
|
drojf |
lol |
| 11:59 |
|
eythian |
https://goo.gl/photos/eWmPi5mFtDFceQUG9 <-- cait, rangi: 4 years ago today |
| 11:59 |
|
cait |
heh |
| 11:59 |
|
cait |
edinburgh? |
| 11:59 |
|
wahanui |
well, edinburgh is for sure now |
| 11:59 |
|
druthb |
lol |
| 11:59 |
|
drojf |
lol |
| 11:59 |
|
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| 11:59 |
|
nengard |
druthb? |
| 11:59 |
|
wahanui |
She's really more trouble than she's worth, you know? |
| 11:59 |
|
nengard |
HA!!! |
| 12:00 |
|
eythian |
cait: yeah |
| 12:00 |
|
druthb |
yes? |
| 12:00 |
|
* druthb |
agrees with wahanui |
| 12:00 |
|
drojf |
ashimema: around? |
| 12:04 |
|
ashimema |
:) |
| 12:04 |
|
ashimema |
am now.. for a little while.. whats up drojf |
| 12:05 |
|
bgkriegel |
druthb: Happy birthday! :) |
| 12:06 |
|
druthb |
Thanks, bgkriegel. :) |
| 12:08 |
|
* thd |
quits before he is disconnected again. |
| 12:10 |
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| 12:15 |
|
drojf |
davidnind++ # already made a wiki page for next meeting |
| 12:17 |
|
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| 12:30 |
|
drojf |
icecream break? |
| 12:38 |
|
nengard |
i want ice cream |
| 12:38 |
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| 12:48 |
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| 12:50 |
|
drojf |
nengard: i got chocolate and mango now. want some? ;) |
| 12:53 |
|
nengard |
yes |
| 12:53 |
|
nengard |
chocolate please :) |
| 12:56 |
|
* drojf |
throws chocolate icecream around the globe |
| 12:57 |
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Dyrcona joined #koha |
| 13:03 |
|
nengard |
WOOO HOOOO |
| 13:04 |
|
* magnuse |
marvels at the chocolate icecream flying by the window |
| 13:07 |
|
* druthb |
would take some mango please, drojf. |
| 13:07 |
|
druthb |
Just throw a little to the left of nengard. |
| 13:10 |
|
drojf |
i need an icecream cannon |
| 13:11 |
|
cait |
better not |
| 13:12 |
|
drojf |
hm. may have talked myself into setting up shibboleth. oops |
| 13:13 |
|
magnuse |
great way to learn something new :-) |
| 13:13 |
|
drojf |
hm. yes. i guess. |
| 13:14 |
|
drojf |
i should shoot some icecream in the general ashimema direction as a precaution, so i can go there and cry about it later |
| 13:17 |
|
ashimema |
haha.. good luck ;) |
| 13:18 |
|
eythian |
drojf: hmm, SAML is not an enjoyable experience in general |
| 13:19 |
|
drojf |
i am not sure if it is actually a solution to what they want. will find out later this week |
| 13:20 |
|
drojf |
from what i understand they would need koha to be the identity provider for something else, i don't see that happening |
| 13:20 |
|
drojf |
at least as far as i understand shibboleth in koha |
| 13:21 |
|
cait |
hm no |
| 13:21 |
|
cait |
service provider, but not identity provider |
| 13:21 |
|
drojf |
yes |
| 13:21 |
|
magnuse |
t'would be cool if koha could be an identity provider, though |
| 13:21 |
|
eythian |
yeah, I've made it be an SP before |
| 13:21 |
|
drojf |
i think they want to outsource that part to koha from another system |
| 13:21 |
|
eythian |
magnuse: no, it wouldn't. |
| 13:22 |
|
eythian |
it would be a terrible maintenance job |
| 13:22 |
|
magnuse |
oh? |
| 13:22 |
|
magnuse |
if koha was the source of truth about users? |
| 13:22 |
|
magnuse |
or maintaining the code? |
| 13:22 |
|
eythian |
supporting SAML is terrible enough from the SP point of view |
| 13:23 |
|
eythian |
maintaining the code and configuring the systems to work |
| 13:23 |
|
eythian |
all would be horrible |
| 13:24 |
|
ashimema |
If I were going to go about being an Identity Provider I'd use one of the half decent off the shelf solutions ;) |
| 13:24 |
|
ashimema |
Shibboleth has IdP packages and SimpleSAMLphp works pretty reasonably |
| 13:24 |
|
magnuse |
yeah, that sounds like a better ideea |
| 13:24 |
|
eythian |
the only IdP I've had any interaction with was bad. But it was commercial and enterprisey. |
| 13:25 |
|
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| 13:25 |
|
ashimema |
simplesamlphp would be where I'd start.. build a quick php driver to look at the koha borrowers tables as it's source |
| 13:25 |
|
eythian |
ashimema: stop wanting that :) |
| 13:25 |
|
eythian |
don't look at the table |
| 13:25 |
|
eythian |
look at a user API |
| 13:25 |
|
drojf |
i'd be up for not being an identity provider and they just implement sip2 auth in that other thing :P |
| 13:25 |
|
* ashimema |
has actually done this for a customer once.. it wasn't pretty but it worked |
| 13:25 |
|
eythian |
a database schema is not an API :) |
| 13:25 |
|
eythian |
(well, I suppose it literally is, but it shouldn't be treated like one.) |
| 13:25 |
|
ashimema |
I don't want that ;) |
| 13:26 |
|
ashimema |
this was before the uesr api was any good ;)_ |
| 13:26 |
|
ashimema |
++ for api |
| 13:28 |
|
drojf |
people should not be allowed to send me emails until i am through all the old ones |
| 13:29 |
|
magnuse |
drojf: except new customers? :-) |
| 13:29 |
|
|
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| 13:29 |
|
* magnuse |
wanders off |
| 13:29 |
|
drojf |
or… they should be allowed to send emails, but not allowed to start waiting for an answer before i am done with the others |
| 13:29 |
|
eythian |
drojf: I think I'm below 1,500 unread now. |
| 13:29 |
|
drojf |
magnuse: yes :D |
| 13:30 |
|
liw |
drojf, I have sometimes considered a bot that autoresponds to mails in my needs-responding folder with a mail saying "Thank you for your email. Your email is important to us. We well get to it shortly. You are now number N in the queue. Have a nice day." |
| 13:30 |
|
drojf |
liw: people would love it |
| 13:31 |
|
drojf |
that icecream made me want to sleep. it was not even that much |
| 13:31 |
|
liw |
instead i have a cronjob that runs http://paste.debian.net/726617/ every morning |
| 13:33 |
|
drojf |
liw: the "do something about it" part needs more work. like, actually doing something, while you go to bed for another hour |
| 13:34 |
|
liw |
I could easily automatically delete anything older than a week, but I'm quite ready for that :) |
| 13:35 |
|
drojf |
delete everything |
| 13:35 |
|
drojf |
delete sender |
| 13:37 |
|
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| 13:40 |
|
eythian |
drojf: it's relatively specialised software, from their point of view. |
| 13:41 |
|
eythian |
that too |
| 13:45 |
|
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amyk joined #koha |
| 13:54 |
|
drojf |
i still have not set up koha 16.05 on a raspi 3 with plack. i guess that could really work in production for a small library |
| 13:55 |
|
drojf |
when do other people do all the stuff they want to do? sigh. |
| 13:56 |
|
* liw |
throws http://gtdfh.branchable.com/ at drojf |
| 13:56 |
|
drojf |
heh thanks, reading that is on the pile of stuff i did not have time for yet (not kidding) |
| 13:57 |
|
liw |
heh |
| 13:57 |
|
drojf |
i could start by making different piles from the one pile, then putting the smaller piles everywhere |
| 13:57 |
|
liw |
I've heard that response before |
| 13:57 |
|
drojf |
and then have nowhere to walk and sit on the couch for a week |
| 13:58 |
|
liw |
it's about 11000 words so not long |
| 14:04 |
|
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| 14:04 |
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| 14:07 |
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| 14:10 |
|
LibraryClaire |
hallo |
| 14:11 |
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| 14:11 |
|
drojf |
eythian: do we (did we when you were packaging manager) keep track somewhere in a central place why we require certain versions of dependencies? or is that just my job to know it all or look up all single bugs? |
| 14:12 |
|
drojf |
at least for some stuff i have seen regarding catmandu it would make sense to gather that somewhere |
| 14:12 |
|
eythian |
we don't really declare them in the package (we could, but we don't) |
| 14:12 |
|
eythian |
in general, my policy was "get the latest one" |
| 14:13 |
|
drojf |
i was looking at bug 16695 |
| 14:13 |
|
huginn` |
Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=16695 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Exception::Class 1.39 is not packaged for Jessie |
| 14:14 |
|
eythian |
https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ndency_Guidelines <-- tell people off for violating point 3 |
| 14:14 |
|
drojf |
that versions seems to be kind of arbitrary in that case. for catmandu there were things like "get that version of a because b requires it or c will break and 4 will deinstall koha-common" |
| 14:15 |
|
eythian |
but anyway, there's no central database of it, things didn't tend to get that complicated |
| 14:16 |
|
drojf |
ok, maybe i just had a funny case to start with. if that does not happen all the time it can be found in the bug report |
| 14:17 |
|
drojf |
or i add a wiki page for the crazy stuff that i find on the way |
| 14:17 |
|
drojf |
oh i still need to write that email to the debian perl people |
| 14:17 |
|
eythian |
joubu fixed it there anyway, but don't forget to check back into wheezy too. |
| 14:17 |
|
drojf |
are the presentations up btw? or would you send me the packaging one? |
| 14:18 |
|
liw |
I'd document the package dependency changes in debian/changelog |
| 14:18 |
|
eythian |
I linked it in the talk itself, you shoulda been paying attention ;) |
| 14:18 |
|
eythian |
(one moment) |
| 14:18 |
|
eythian |
liw: it's not packaging specific generally though, which makes that more complicated |
| 14:19 |
|
eythian |
https://owncloud.kallisti.net.[…]s/V38lAuuuCfxdGY5 <-- drojf |
| 14:19 |
|
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| 14:20 |
|
drojf |
i did pay attention, but i did all the exercises :P |
| 14:25 |
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| 14:31 |
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| 14:37 |
|
drojf |
oh look, i got two wiki pages for packaging. i am great at that information management thing |
| 14:46 |
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| 14:51 |
|
LibraryClaire |
greedy |
| 14:52 |
|
eythian |
wizzycrayfish is up early |
| 14:54 |
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| 15:00 |
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| 15:04 |
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| 15:06 |
|
wizzycray |
very early :) |
| 15:26 |
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| 15:28 |
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| 15:33 |
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| 15:33 |
|
mveron |
Hi again #koha |
| 15:48 |
|
drojf |
hi mveron |
| 15:48 |
|
mveron |
hi drojf |
| 15:48 |
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| 15:49 |
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| 15:50 |
|
mveron |
drojf: Did you see the comment on Bug 16346? |
| 15:50 |
|
huginn` |
Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=16346 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, wizzyrea, In Discussion , Website should be translatable |
| 15:52 |
|
drojf |
i did |
| 16:23 |
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| 16:27 |
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thd-away` joined #koha |
| 16:32 |
|
reiveune |
bye |
| 16:32 |
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| 16:37 |
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| 16:48 |
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| 16:58 |
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| 16:58 |
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LibraryClaire joined #koha |
| 16:58 |
|
* drojf |
heads home |
| 17:07 |
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| 17:15 |
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| 17:33 |
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| 17:34 |
|
drojf |
@wunder berlin, germany |
| 17:34 |
|
huginn` |
drojf: The current temperature in Berlin Tegel, Germany is 22.0°C (7:20 PM CEST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 43%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Steady). |
| 17:34 |
|
drojf |
really tries that summer thing |
| 17:43 |
|
LibraryClaire |
@wunder Guildford, uk |
| 17:43 |
|
huginn` |
LibraryClaire: The current temperature in Chilworth, Chilworth, United Kingdom is 21.2°C (6:42 PM BST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 30.21 in 1023 hPa (Steady). |
| 17:43 |
|
LibraryClaire |
humid :( |
| 17:44 |
|
drojf |
71% means you can almost swim |
| 17:45 |
|
LibraryClaire |
feels like :P |
| 17:45 |
|
nengard |
@wunder 78754 |
| 17:45 |
|
huginn` |
nengard: The current temperature in North Acres, Austin, Texas is 31.8°C (12:40 PM CDT on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 55%. Dew Point: 22.0°C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Steady). |
| 18:07 |
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| 18:13 |
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| 18:16 |
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| 18:26 |
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| 18:40 |
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| 18:42 |
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| 19:09 |
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| 19:10 |
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| 19:16 |
|
* barbara_ |
slaps barbara_ around a bit with a large fishbot |
| 19:29 |
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| 19:35 |
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| 19:40 |
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| 19:41 |
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| 19:42 |
|
asdf |
Hey guys. Is there an upgrade process listed somewhere for going from 3.22 to 16.05? (debian package install). Will simply following the upgrade instructions in the INSTALL file be sufficient? |
| 19:43 |
|
gmcharlt_ |
asdf: http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.[…]00-td5890242.html |
| 19:45 |
|
asdf |
Thanks! Will this retain system preferences, catalogs, etc., or will a full backup/restore be necessary? |
| 19:54 |
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cait joined #koha |
| 20:02 |
|
* cait |
waves |
| 20:02 |
|
LibraryClaire |
hi cait |
| 20:02 |
|
cait |
hey - how are you doing? |
| 20:02 |
|
cait |
throat getting better? |
| 20:03 |
|
* drojf |
waits to see if cait runs out again |
| 20:04 |
|
LibraryClaire |
still not amazing, I think it's turning into a cough now, but I can function (just) ;) |
| 20:06 |
|
LibraryClaire |
how's the mass of email? |
| 20:07 |
|
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geek_cl joined #koha |
| 20:08 |
|
cait |
slowly getting through it |
| 20:08 |
|
cait |
at least some of the piles are shrinking :) |
| 20:08 |
|
cait |
drojf: not for a little bit longer |
| 20:09 |
|
LibraryClaire |
:) |
| 20:10 |
|
drojf |
then hi cait :) |
| 20:10 |
|
cait |
hi drojf :) |
| 20:13 |
|
eythian |
I think I caught something from you people |
| 20:13 |
|
|
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| 20:14 |
|
eythian |
have a sore throat setting in |
| 20:14 |
|
* cait |
blames LibraryClaire :P |
| 20:14 |
|
LibraryClaire |
hey, someone gave this to me! |
| 20:14 |
|
* cait |
just unpacked a new fitbit |
| 20:14 |
|
LibraryClaire |
aaw, you didn't find yours? |
| 20:14 |
|
cait |
it's can't have been the person coughing all the time *hides* |
| 20:14 |
|
cait |
no, didn't turn up again |
| 20:14 |
|
LibraryClaire |
aw :( |
| 20:15 |
|
cait |
sacrifice to the gods of travel i guess |
| 20:15 |
|
eythian |
after telling me off for leaving my tablet on the plane... |
| 20:15 |
|
rangi |
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[…]72157666855401463 |
| 20:15 |
|
cait |
yeah... i should have known better |
| 20:15 |
|
cait |
oh even more pictues |
| 20:16 |
|
drojf |
haha weird people on a boat |
| 20:16 |
|
cait |
very weird people :) |
| 20:16 |
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rangi |
drojf: i only put online the one where you cant tell who you are :) |
| 20:17 |
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rangi |
i can send you the others if you want |
| 20:17 |
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drojf |
:D |
| 20:17 |
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drojf |
that would be nice |
| 20:18 |
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LibraryClaire |
yay pics :D |
| 20:18 |
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drojf |
i miss greece |
| 20:18 |
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rangi |
yeah it was a lovely place |
| 20:19 |
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eythian |
https://goo.gl/photos/Fcoc1ne7q3SSL8Gv9 <-- more |
| 20:19 |
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rangi |
oh cool you got one of the horseless carriage |
| 20:19 |
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* cait |
misses people |
| 20:20 |
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| 20:20 |
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drojf |
eythian: great job at making the distance between amsterdam and berlin seem really huge |
| 20:20 |
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LibraryClaire |
lol |
| 20:20 |
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eythian |
yeah :) |
| 20:21 |
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eythian |
https://photos.google.com/movi[…]xp4eQLPm-94Eo_sVR <-- or in video form (warning: sound) |
| 20:21 |
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cait |
404 |
| 20:22 |
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eythian |
https://goo.gl/photos/mo7Ht1z4azCpwwEN7 <-- try this |
| 20:22 |
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eythian |
(I copied the wrong link) |
| 20:24 |
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eythian |
@wunder ams |
| 20:24 |
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eythian |
:< |
| 20:24 |
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huginn` |
eythian: Error: timed out |
| 20:24 |
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rangi |
eythian: joh was stoked with the ink |
| 20:24 |
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eythian |
sweet |
| 20:24 |
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eythian |
@wunder ams |
| 20:24 |
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huginn` |
eythian: The current temperature in Schiphol, Badhoevedorp, Netherlands is 13.7°C (10:24 PM CEST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 30.21 in 1023 hPa (Rising). |
| 20:25 |
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eythian |
it's cold here, why is my apartment so damn warm with everything open? |
| 20:25 |
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drojf |
fire? |
| 20:25 |
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wahanui |
fire is http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/a[…]uring-live-stream |
| 20:26 |
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eythian |
I hope now |
| 20:26 |
|
eythian |
not |
| 20:26 |
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rangi |
fire at the mcdonalds here |
| 20:26 |
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LibraryClaire |
:/ |
| 20:28 |
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drojf |
eythian: have you tried the unlabelled tsipouro yet? |
| 20:29 |
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eythian |
yeah, had it yesterday |
| 20:29 |
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eythian |
a bit bitier than some of the others |
| 20:29 |
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eythian |
but not bad |
| 20:30 |
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rangi |
oh, that reminds me, i need to drink the beers you and joubu gave me |
| 20:32 |
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eythian |
http://www.funda.nl/koop/amste[…]zersgracht-633-p/ <-- time to buy a place here I guess |
| 20:32 |
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LibraryClaire |
just for the weekends :P |
| 20:33 |
|
* LibraryClaire |
whispers 'it has a library...' |
| 20:34 |
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eythian |
Well, it only has 18 bedrooms. Of course only for weekends. |
| 20:35 |
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drojf |
eythian: i think that is true bathtub tsipouro. not tried yet but smells different |
| 20:38 |
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Dyrcona |
eythian: That's nothing. Kim Dotcom's place is up for sale: http://www.nzfarms.co.nz/2760510 |
| 20:39 |
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eythian |
12 bedrooms? What am I, some kind of peasant? |
| 20:39 |
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Dyrcona |
heh! |
| 20:40 |
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cait |
brb |
| 20:47 |
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| 20:48 |
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| 20:54 |
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rangi |
drojf: https://twitter.com/mikeforbes[…]40648028961263616 <-- wellington isn't so bad today either |
| 20:55 |
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LibraryClaire |
that's pretty! |
| 20:57 |
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drojf |
nice! |
| 21:02 |
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| 21:11 |
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| 21:15 |
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| 21:19 |
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| 21:33 |
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rangi |
https://photos.google.com/shar[…]wV1d6aUFvdnNBUU93 <-- lol i look wasted (i probably was) |
| 21:34 |
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drojf |
cait does a nice whatever she is doing |
| 21:34 |
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cait |
hm? |
| 21:34 |
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cait |
ah what? |
| 21:34 |
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wahanui |
i heard ah was ? |
| 21:34 |
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LibraryClaire |
magic |
| 21:35 |
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cait |
yep that |
| 21:35 |
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wahanui |
yep that is probably what I see when I go into circ rules. |
| 21:35 |
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LibraryClaire |
lol |
| 21:35 |
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drojf |
a shadow rabbit |
| 21:53 |
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tcohen |
hi |
| 21:53 |
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tcohen |
hi cait |
| 21:54 |
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cait |
hi tcohen :) |
| 21:54 |
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tcohen |
rangi: cool pictures |
| 21:55 |
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tcohen |
rangi: it looks like it was too much beer for the day for you |
| 21:56 |
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rangi |
heh, i think that was just the first one, but it was a hot day |
| 22:02 |
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| 22:13 |
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drojf |
good night #koha |
| 22:23 |
|
kidclamp |
any know if there is a way to search or sort in bugzilla by number of cc's/followers |
| 22:23 |
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rangi |
not that i know of |
| 22:23 |
|
kidclamp |
darn |
| 22:25 |
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cait |
number of comments... but number of ccs haven't seen |
| 22:29 |
|
kidclamp |
how can you do # of comments cait? |
| 22:31 |
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cait |
hm let me see |
| 22:32 |
|
cait |
if you change columns |
| 22:33 |
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cait |
it's one of hte options you can select |
| 22:33 |
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cait |
number of comments |
| 22:34 |
|
kidclamp |
cool, thanks! |
| 22:35 |
|
kidclamp |
so I need to tell people to comment, not just follow :-) |
| 22:35 |
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rangi |
whats the use case? |
| 22:37 |
|
kidclamp |
in trying to get users more involved I always tell them to follow the bugs they are interested in |
| 22:37 |
|
kidclamp |
would be nice to say 'hey 20 people are looking at this bug, maybe I should fix it' |
| 22:37 |
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cait |
night all :) |
| 22:38 |
|
kidclamp |
night cairt |
| 22:38 |
|
kidclamp |
cait even |
| 22:38 |
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| 22:39 |
|
kidclamp |
I was gonna suggest it as a dashboard add-on - most (un)popular bugs |
| 22:41 |
|
kidclamp |
goodnight all |
| 22:57 |
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| 23:03 |
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wizzyrea |
heh |
| 23:08 |
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