IRC log for #koha, 2016-01-15

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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00:30 dcook Actually, it's not that much action at a distance..
00:31 dcook I'm using a mobile modem, but it's no different than a wired modem, except that it's slower...
00:31 dcook I'm connecting to one computer via that network, and then doing another hop, which happens sometimes..
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03:53 * Francesca waves
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07:27 marcelr hi #koha
07:29 cait hi marcelr
07:29 cait bbiab
07:29 marcelr :)
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07:49 reiveune hello
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07:55 alex_a bonjour
08:10 matts hi
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08:35 gaetan_B hello
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08:41 drojf morning #koha
08:43 Joubu hi
08:55 * magnuse waves in holiday mode
09:18 drojf magnuse: looking for holiday signoffs? ;)
09:24 janeto joined #koha
09:24 magnuse possibly - i'll have some time in the evenings, after sonny is asleep
09:24 magnuse but i'll make no promises :-)
09:31 drojf magnuse: if you like, please test the letsencrypt patch. that would be awesome. there will be adjustments, but it would be cool to pass something to qa so i can make changes if needed
09:33 drojf i think i will add a patch to set it to the staging server, so the certificate limits don't apply. i ran into that a few times now
09:37 Joubu @later tell bag please have a look at last followup on bug 15295, should be pushed asap
09:37 huginn` Joubu: The operation succeeded.
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10:50 marcelr Joubu: you added a block on report 14295 to bug 15568; probably a mistake?
10:50 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=15568 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Circ rules are not displayed anymore
10:51 Joubu marcelr: no 15568 depends on last the follow-up (not pushed yet) of 14295
10:52 marcelr you picked the wrong bug number
10:52 marcelr bug 15295
10:52 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=15295 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , Move the C4::Branch related code to Koha::Libraries - part 2
10:52 marcelr that should be the one
10:52 Joubu yes!
10:52 Joubu sorry, thanks
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12:21 magnuse see y'all in a week'ish!
12:31 geek_cl hi #koha guys, any idea why hang the resources (cpu/ram) , grow and grow without freeing the resources
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12:43 LibraryClaire afternoon #koha
12:45 geek_cl o/
12:45 geek_cl i think i found the reason.
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12:52 geek_cl v3.20.06
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13:03 drojf can i have an unlimited loan period in ciculation rules? or do i have to set somethin like 999 months?
13:05 geek_cl drojf, circulation rules are based on hours and days, right?
13:05 drojf right
13:06 drojf i could have 9999999 days
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13:07 liw I recommend 10002000 days in that case -- much easier to see how big a number it is
13:08 oleonard Bug 15568 doesn't apply, but both dependent bugs have been pushed to master. Is there another dependency not listed?
13:08 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=15568 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Circ rules are not displayed anymore
13:10 drojf liw: the field has only room for seven digits ;)
13:10 geek_cl "DBD::mysql::st fetchrow_hashref failed: fetch() without execute()"
13:11 geek_cl so, 999999999
13:11 geek_cl s/ 9999999
13:11 liw drojf, in that case, 999000 :)
13:12 geek_cl Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at /usr/share/koha/intranet/htdocs/intranet-tmp​l/prog/es-ES/modules/catalogue/ line 184.
13:13 drojf i would actually prefer an empty value for unlimited :) but i dont know if that works
13:15 oleonard Circulation and Fine rules broken in master if DefaultToLoggedInLibraryCircRules is turned on?
13:21 oleonard Is it a regression or a decision that one no longer gets a confirmation about deleting a list which has items on it?
13:26 drojf circulation with a loan period of 36500 days takes a loooon time Oo
13:26 drojf loooong even
13:26 drojf its probably calculation a gazillion holidays in the background?
13:27 drojf i think i'll rather use 28 days and a lot of auto-renewals
13:28 oleonard drojf: After the singularity your forever-living body will have instant access to all of human and AI knowledge and you won't need to check anything out for that long.
13:29 drojf lol
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13:31 LibraryClaire lol
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13:35 drojf "A hard due date ignores your usual circulation rules and makes it so that all                 items of the type defined are due on, before or after the date you specify."
13:35 drojf after the day you specify… like, whenever?
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13:36 drojf that would be perfect
13:38 LibraryClaire I use the after date for holiday extensions
13:44 drojf but it does not work the way i think
13:44 oleonard khall around?
13:44 khall what's up?
13:45 drojf i used loan period 0, due after tomorrow. and i get 14 days as due date, which is the more general rule
13:45 drojf LibraryClaire: can you explain? do you use it to shorten the regular period? or to make it longer?
13:46 oleonard khall: How does Bug 15534 differ from the "allow on shelf holds" setting?
13:46 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=15534 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Add the ability to prevent a patron from placing a hold on a record with available items
13:48 LibraryClaire drojf: we give extensions to loans over holidays so that items aren't due back when libraries are closed. So a few weeks before holiday starts we set a date we want them due back when term starts and enter it as an'after 18/01/2016' for example
13:48 khall oleonard: on shelf holds controls if a patron can place a hold or not based on if even one item is not available. Bug 15534 is sort of the inverse, but not quite. It prevents a patron from placing a hold if even one item is available that the patron is able to check out
13:49 LibraryClaire drojf: this means items issued with this rule will be issued to that date if it is greater than their 'usual' loan period
13:49 LibraryClaire drojf: then once that date is less than a 'usual' loan period it reverts back to normal and ignores the hard date
13:49 drojf ah, i see. thanks, that helped me a lot :)
13:49 drojf LibraryClaire++
13:50 LibraryClaire drojf: no probs :)
13:50 LibraryClaire drojf: (means I can be lazy and not need to track dates and revert them back after holidays... ;) )
13:51 oleonard khall: So the older on shelf hold setting lets you place a hold on an on-shelf item if any other item on that record is checked out?
13:51 khall oleonard: correct
13:51 oleonard That seems wrong.
13:51 oleonard What's the point?
13:51 wahanui well, the point is that it sticks to the bottom of the page even if you don't have enough content to push it that far down
13:52 oleonard Oh don't start that with me wahanui
13:52 khall oleonard: I tend to agree with you, but that's how it's always been. We can't change that behavior now, but we can add a new behavior.
13:54 oleonard it makes me wonder if people using the old setting are really getting the behavior they expect. The documentation does not describe the behavior that you do.
13:54 oleonard So I'm wondering if your patch is actually a fix rather than a new feature.
14:07 oleonard The old "allow on shelf holds" setting doesn't seem to be working anyway, unless I still don't understand what it's supposed to do.
14:07 oleonard I was able to put a hold on an item at my logged-in library which was available.
14:07 oleonard Does it not apply to the staff client?
14:09 oleonard Yeah I can place holds on available items in the OPAC and staff client.
14:14 drojf oleonard: do you know what is the oldest version of IE that koha should work with flawlessly?
14:15 oleonard I don't think we've ever promised that it would work flawlessly. I've had expectations that the OPAC should function properly in older versions of IE, but we don't have a firm rule.
14:16 oleonard As for the staff client, I'm willing to try to fix bugs specific to IE, but not so much for older versions of IE.
14:17 oleonard drojf: Why do you ask?
14:17 drojf MS dropped support for most versions, i don't see why we shouldn't :P but its a question i got several times during seminars
14:17 drojf they did not like my "a recent browser" argumentation ;)
14:18 oleonard Yeah I think their dropping of support is a good prompt for us to revisit the question and perhaps set some firmer guidelines for ourselves.
14:20 drojf yes we should do that
14:22 drojf is that more of a meeting or a mailing list question?
14:23 oleonard I'm very interested in hearing what people on the mailing list who hate upgrades think about upgrades :P
14:24 drojf hahaha yes
14:24 drojf "the fairly recent IE 7" …
14:25 oleonard But seriously, I think bringing it up on the developers list is a good first step, making explicit the context of "How do we talk to others about Koha's support for older browsers like IE?"
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14:26 * cait is back
14:26 * LibraryClaire waves
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14:37 kidclamp oleonard: as I understand "allow on shelf holds" should let you place holds on available items.  With 'Don't allow" you should only be able to place holds if not all of the items are available
14:38 drojf someone with op powers could maybe link to[…]neral_IRC_meeting in the topic
14:44 oleonard Okay maybe my "allow on shelf holds" issue is due to incorrect circ rules. Seems to be working now.
14:44 oleonard Although the "No available items." error message is stupidly unhelpful
14:46 oleonard That's in the OPAC. And in the staff client you get "Too many holds: John Smith can only place a maximum of total holds."
14:46 oleonard ...which is also completely wrong and accidentally a word.
14:47 oleonard Holds are the worst.
14:49 cait kidclamp: that's not the current behaviour
14:49 cait kidclamp: there is a bug to make it work like that (which i will be really thankful for, once completed)
14:50 cait kidclamp: oleonard: with allowonshelfholds = off, you can place a hold, once 1 item matching the rule is checked out, with ON - you always place a hold
14:52 oleonard cait: So you agree with khall that the current behavior is that all it takes is one unavailable item to make something "holdable" with allowonshelfholds off.
14:53 oleonard ...even if there are other available items.
14:54 cait oleonard: yep
14:54 cait there have been several bug reports to that... i have tidied it up once, but i think kyle filed a new one
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14:54 cait the change with the move is that it's now by itemtype
14:54 cait and patron category
14:54 wahanui well, patron category is in the works ... gimme a sec.
14:54 cait before it was global
14:55 cait so it's on a different level - more granular - but the same behaviour
14:55 oleonard I'm thinking about this because I'm looking at Bug 15534 and wondering how it works with the existing allow on shelf holds setting.
14:55 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=15534 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Add the ability to prevent a patron from placing a hold on a record with available items
14:55 cait i haven't taken a closer look yet, only saved it
14:55 cait one sec
14:56 cait hm
14:56 cait i think i would have imagined it as a third option to allowonshelfholds
14:56 cait I can't imagine right now how it would work iwth the allowonshelfholds settings
14:56 oleonard Yeah I don't think Bug 15534 is the right solution. It's too confusing to have two.
14:57 oleonard Especially since the real behavior of the curent allowonshelfholds setting isn't clear from the interface and documentation.
14:57 cait could you put a comment?
14:57 oleonard Yes
14:57 cait no it isn't but it has been like that forever
14:57 cait i have filed the first bug about this about the time we started using koha in 2009
14:57 oleonard I wonder if the libraries who use it *want* it to be that way or simply accept it because it's better than nothing?
14:58 cait i am not sure
14:58 cait there are complications about this i am not sure about either
14:58 cait what's available? for checkout?
14:58 cait at your own branch? at all branches?
14:58 cait the test case only really covers the simplest use case
15:00 cait i think most if not all of our libraries would prefer the 'all' setting - but most of them are single branch libraries
15:04 cait oleonard: did you test bug 11231?
15:04 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11231 minor, P5 - low, ---, francescalamoore, CLOSED FIXED, notes should be reservenotes in and
15:04 cait oh sorry
15:04 cait bug 11321
15:04 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11321 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, CLOSED DUPLICATE, "On hold" items can't be placed on hold with allowonshelfholds off
15:04 cait ah sorry... i think i misread
15:05 cait hold bug jungle...
15:05 oleonard 11321 marked as duplicate of 4319 which is marked as duplicate of 14935 which has no patch.
15:05 oleonard Jungle indeed.
15:06 cait yeah i think that's wrong
15:06 cait i just commented on 14935 about that
15:06 cait i will reverset he dupliacate mark if that's ok with you too?
15:09 oleonard Yeah, I don't think it's okay to file a new bug and mark an older one as a duplicate
15:09 cait ok, changed
15:14 LibraryClaire am I being dense? I can't find a preference for allowonshelfholds... (was just snooping about)
15:14 cait LibraryClaire: it used to be a pref - has been moved inot the circulatoin conditions now
15:14 cait since... 3.20?
15:14 oleonard Yes they slipped it in when I wasn't looking
15:14 cait heh
15:15 LibraryClaire cait: thank you! I knew I had seen it but couldn't find it for hte life of me...
15:15 cait glad you are looking again :)
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15:21 oleonard Is Bug 15545 just a workaround for the problem of placing a hold on multiple items on one record?
15:21 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=15545 enhancement, P5 - low, ---,, Needs Signoff , Optionally require notes when placing a hold
15:21 oleonard ...or of not wanting to allow item-level holds except for certain types of records?
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15:36 cait oleonard: hm - I think it was something else, but not sure right now
15:38 cait when in doubt, ask :)
15:42 oleonard I asked :)
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15:45 kidclamp thanks oleonard, now I see the problem
15:45 oleonard Great.
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16:05 gmcharlt_ may be of interest: some vulnernabilities in the OpenSSH client were discovered:[…]cve-2016-0778.txt
16:06 reiveune bye
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16:11 oleonard I *do not like* that the checkin page doesn't list items scanned which weren't checked out. Hate it.
16:11 kidclamp I concur
16:12 kidclamp I have just been wondering the best fix to get it back oleonard.  Syspref?
16:12 oleonard Yeah I think so.
16:12 kidclamp Even errored ones that don't check in, I'd rather have in the list with an error note
16:12 oleonard Should have been a preference to begin with.
16:13 kidclamp Yeah, that one slipped right by, no idea how
16:19 oleonard kidclamp: Does Bug 14576 eliminate the need for the  InProcessingToShelvingCart and ReturnToShelvingCart preferences?
16:19 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14576 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nick, Needs Signoff , Allow arbitrary automatic update of location on checkin
16:21 kidclamp oleonard, that wasn't the intention, but maybe?  I would have to look a bit
16:23 oleonard kidclamp: At best there is an opportunity to simplify, and at worst there is a chance those preferences are in conflict with your patch somehow?
16:23 cait kidclamp: guess I am to blame there
16:23 cait was not aware that people really liked it
16:23 cait the 'checked in' thing
16:23 kidclamp cait: you don't knwo what you don't know.  I didn't know how much I liked it til it was gone
16:24 cait thx :)
16:25 kidclamp thanks/grrr oleonard, I need to investigate
16:54 oleonard Ugh... automatically generated self-registration passwords can contain a double quote, and when you fill in the login form automatically with that value it breaks the HTML
16:56 cait ew
16:56 cait why generate them differently then in staff?
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17:00 oleonard Reading the comments on Bug 15343, what does "Password field when does not follow convention completely when mandatory" mean?
17:00 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=15343 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nick, Needs Signoff , Allow patrons to choose their own password on self registration.
17:02 kidclamp_dnd I think remove the first 'when' from that sentence
17:15 gaetan_B bye
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