Time  Nick            Message
00:30 dcook           Actually, it's not that much action at a distance..
00:31 dcook           I'm using a mobile modem, but it's no different than a wired modem, except that it's slower...
00:31 dcook           I'm connecting to one computer via that network, and then doing another hop, which happens sometimes..
03:53 * Francesca     waves
07:27 marcelr         hi #koha
07:29 cait            hi marcelr
07:29 cait            bbiab
07:29 marcelr         :)
07:49 reiveune        hello
07:55 alex_a          bonjour
08:10 matts           hi
08:35 gaetan_B        hello
08:41 drojf           morning #koha
08:43 Joubu           hi
08:55 * magnuse       waves in holiday mode
09:18 drojf           magnuse: looking for holiday signoffs? ;)
09:24 magnuse         possibly - i'll have some time in the evenings, after sonny is asleep
09:24 magnuse         but i'll make no promises :-)
09:31 drojf           magnuse: if you like, please test the letsencrypt patch. that would be awesome. there will be adjustments, but it would be cool to pass something to qa so i can make changes if needed
09:33 drojf           i think i will add a patch to set it to the staging server, so the certificate limits don't apply. i ran into that a few times now
09:37 Joubu           @later tell bag please have a look at last followup on bug 15295, should be pushed asap
09:37 huginn`         Joubu: The operation succeeded.
10:50 marcelr         Joubu: you added a block on report 14295 to bug 15568; probably a mistake?
10:50 huginn`         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15568 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Circ rules are not displayed anymore
10:51 Joubu           marcelr: no 15568 depends on last the follow-up (not pushed yet) of 14295
10:52 marcelr         you picked the wrong bug number
10:52 marcelr         bug 15295
10:52 huginn`         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15295 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , Move the C4::Branch related code to Koha::Libraries - part 2
10:52 marcelr         that should be the one
10:52 Joubu           yes!
10:52 Joubu           sorry, thanks
12:21 magnuse         see y'all in a week'ish!
12:31 geek_cl         hi #koha guys, any idea why circulation.pl hang the resources (cpu/ram) , grow and grow without freeing the resources
12:43 LibraryClaire   afternoon #koha
12:45 geek_cl         o/
12:45 geek_cl         i think i found the reason.
12:52 geek_cl         http://pastebin.com/Lw4VjzTp v3.20.06
13:03 drojf           can i have an unlimited loan period in ciculation rules? or do i have to set somethin like 999 months?
13:05 geek_cl         drojf, circulation rules are based on hours and days, right?
13:05 drojf           right
13:06 drojf           i could have 9999999 days
13:07 liw             I recommend 10002000 days in that case -- much easier to see how big a number it is
13:08 oleonard        Bug 15568 doesn't apply, but both dependent bugs have been pushed to master. Is there another dependency not listed?
13:08 huginn`         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15568 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Circ rules are not displayed anymore
13:10 drojf           liw: the field has only room for seven digits ;)
13:10 geek_cl         "DBD::mysql::st fetchrow_hashref failed: fetch() without execute()"
13:11 geek_cl         so, 999999999
13:11 geek_cl         s/ 9999999
13:11 liw             drojf, in that case, 999000 :)
13:12 geek_cl         moredetail.pl: Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at /usr/share/koha/intranet/htdocs/intranet-tmpl/prog/es-ES/modules/catalogue/moredetail.tt line 184.
13:13 drojf           i would actually prefer an empty value for unlimited :) but i dont know if that works
13:15 oleonard        Circulation and Fine rules broken in master if DefaultToLoggedInLibraryCircRules is turned on?
13:21 oleonard        Is it a regression or a decision that one no longer gets a confirmation about deleting a list which has items on it?
13:26 drojf           circulation with a loan period of 36500 days takes a loooon time Oo
13:26 drojf           loooong even
13:26 drojf           its probably calculation a gazillion holidays in the background?
13:27 drojf           i think i'll rather use 28 days and a lot of auto-renewals
13:28 oleonard        drojf: After the singularity your forever-living body will have instant access to all of human and AI knowledge and you won't need to check anything out for that long.
13:29 drojf           lol
13:31 LibraryClaire   lol
13:35 drojf           "A hard due date ignores your usual circulation rules and makes it so that all                 items of the type defined are due on, before or after the date you specify."
13:35 drojf           after the day you specify… like, whenever?
13:36 drojf           that would be perfect
13:38 LibraryClaire   I use the after date for holiday extensions
13:44 drojf           but it does not work the way i think
13:44 oleonard        khall around?
13:44 khall           what's up?
13:45 drojf           i used loan period 0, due after tomorrow. and i get 14 days as due date, which is the more general rule
13:45 drojf           LibraryClaire: can you explain? do you use it to shorten the regular period? or to make it longer?
13:46 oleonard        khall: How does Bug 15534 differ from the "allow on shelf holds" setting?
13:46 huginn`         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15534 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Add the ability to prevent a patron from placing a hold on a record with available items
13:48 LibraryClaire   drojf: we give extensions to loans over holidays so that items aren't due back when libraries are closed. So a few weeks before holiday starts we set a date we want them due back when term starts and enter it as an'after 18/01/2016' for example
13:48 khall           oleonard: on shelf holds controls if a patron can place a hold or not based on if even one item is not available. Bug 15534 is sort of the inverse, but not quite. It prevents a patron from placing a hold if even one item is available that the patron is able to check out
13:49 LibraryClaire   drojf: this means items issued with this rule will be issued to that date if it is greater than their 'usual' loan period
13:49 LibraryClaire   drojf: then once that date is less than a 'usual' loan period it reverts back to normal and ignores the hard date
13:49 drojf           ah, i see. thanks, that helped me a lot :)
13:49 drojf           LibraryClaire++
13:50 LibraryClaire   drojf: no probs :)
13:50 LibraryClaire   drojf: (means I can be lazy and not need to track dates and revert them back after holidays... ;) )
13:51 oleonard        khall: So the older on shelf hold setting lets you place a hold on an on-shelf item if any other item on that record is checked out?
13:51 khall           oleonard: correct
13:51 oleonard        That seems wrong.
13:51 oleonard        What's the point?
13:51 wahanui         well, the point is that it sticks to the bottom of the page even if you don't have enough content to push it that far down
13:52 oleonard        Oh don't start that with me wahanui
13:52 khall           oleonard: I tend to agree with you, but that's how it's always been. We can't change that behavior now, but we can add a new behavior.
13:54 oleonard        it makes me wonder if people using the old setting are really getting the behavior they expect. The documentation does not describe the behavior that you do.
13:54 oleonard        So I'm wondering if your patch is actually a fix rather than a new feature.
14:07 oleonard        The old "allow on shelf holds" setting doesn't seem to be working anyway, unless I still don't understand what it's supposed to do.
14:07 oleonard        I was able to put a hold on an item at my logged-in library which was available.
14:07 oleonard        Does it not apply to the staff client?
14:09 oleonard        Yeah I can place holds on available items in the OPAC and staff client.
14:14 drojf           oleonard: do you know what is the oldest version of IE that koha should work with flawlessly?
14:15 oleonard        I don't think we've ever promised that it would work flawlessly. I've had expectations that the OPAC should function properly in older versions of IE, but we don't have a firm rule.
14:16 oleonard        As for the staff client, I'm willing to try to fix bugs specific to IE, but not so much for older versions of IE.
14:17 oleonard        drojf: Why do you ask?
14:17 drojf           MS dropped support for most versions, i don't see why we shouldn't :P but its a question i got several times during seminars
14:17 drojf           they did not like my "a recent browser" argumentation ;)
14:18 oleonard        Yeah I think their dropping of support is a good prompt for us to revisit the question and perhaps set some firmer guidelines for ourselves.
14:20 drojf           yes we should do that
14:22 drojf           is that more of a meeting or a mailing list question?
14:23 oleonard        I'm very interested in hearing what people on the mailing list who hate upgrades think about upgrades :P
14:24 drojf           hahaha yes
14:24 drojf           "the fairly recent IE 7" …
14:25 oleonard        But seriously, I think bringing it up on the developers list is a good first step, making explicit the context of "How do we talk to others about Koha's support for older browsers like IE?"
14:26 * cait          is back
14:26 * LibraryClaire waves
14:37 kidclamp        oleonard: as I understand "allow on shelf holds" should let you place holds on available items.  With 'Don't allow" you should only be able to place holds if not all of the items are available
14:38 drojf           someone with op powers could maybe link to http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Next_General_IRC_meeting in the topic
14:44 oleonard        Okay maybe my "allow on shelf holds" issue is due to incorrect circ rules. Seems to be working now.
14:44 oleonard        Although the "No available items." error message is stupidly unhelpful
14:46 oleonard        That's in the OPAC. And in the staff client you get "Too many holds: John Smith can only place a maximum of total holds."
14:46 oleonard        ...which is also completely wrong and accidentally a word.
14:47 oleonard        Holds are the worst.
14:49 cait            kidclamp: that's not the current behaviour
14:49 cait            kidclamp: there is a bug to make it work like that (which i will be really thankful for, once completed)
14:50 cait            kidclamp: oleonard: with allowonshelfholds = off, you can place a hold, once 1 item matching the rule is checked out, with ON - you always place a hold
14:52 oleonard        cait: So you agree with khall that the current behavior is that all it takes is one unavailable item to make something "holdable" with allowonshelfholds off.
14:53 oleonard        ...even if there are other available items.
14:54 cait            oleonard: yep
14:54 cait            there have been several bug reports to that... i have tidied it up once, but i think kyle filed a new one
14:54 cait            the change with the move is that it's now by itemtype
14:54 cait            and patron category
14:54 wahanui         well, patron category is in the works ... gimme a sec.
14:54 cait            before it was global
14:55 cait            so it's on a different level - more granular - but the same behaviour
14:55 oleonard        I'm thinking about this because I'm looking at Bug 15534 and wondering how it works with the existing allow on shelf holds setting.
14:55 huginn`         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15534 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Add the ability to prevent a patron from placing a hold on a record with available items
14:55 cait            i haven't taken a closer look yet, only saved it
14:55 cait            one sec
14:56 cait            hm
14:56 cait            i think i would have imagined it as a third option to allowonshelfholds
14:56 cait            I can't imagine right now how it would work iwth the allowonshelfholds settings
14:56 oleonard        Yeah I don't think Bug 15534 is the right solution. It's too confusing to have two.
14:57 oleonard        Especially since the real behavior of the curent allowonshelfholds setting isn't clear from the interface and documentation.
14:57 cait            could you put a comment?
14:57 oleonard        Yes
14:57 cait            no it isn't but it has been like that forever
14:57 cait            i have filed the first bug about this about the time we started using koha in 2009
14:57 oleonard        I wonder if the libraries who use it *want* it to be that way or simply accept it because it's better than nothing?
14:58 cait            i am not sure
14:58 cait            there are complications about this i am not sure about either
14:58 cait            what's available? for checkout?
14:58 cait            at your own branch? at all branches?
14:58 cait            the test case only really covers the simplest use case
15:00 cait            i think most if not all of our libraries would prefer the 'all' setting - but most of them are single branch libraries
15:04 cait            oleonard: did you test bug 11231?
15:04 huginn`         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11231 minor, P5 - low, ---, francescalamoore, CLOSED FIXED, notes should be reservenotes in pendingreserves.pl and reserveratios.pl
15:04 cait            oh sorry
15:04 cait            bug 11321
15:04 huginn`         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11321 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, CLOSED DUPLICATE, "On hold" items can't be placed on hold with allowonshelfholds off
15:04 cait            ah sorry... i think i misread
15:05 cait            hold bug jungle...
15:05 oleonard        11321 marked as duplicate of 4319 which is marked as duplicate of 14935 which has no patch.
15:05 oleonard        Jungle indeed.
15:06 cait            yeah i think that's wrong
15:06 cait            i just commented on 14935 about that
15:06 cait            i will reverset he dupliacate mark if that's ok with you too?
15:09 oleonard        Yeah, I don't think it's okay to file a new bug and mark an older one as a duplicate
15:09 cait            ok, changed
15:14 LibraryClaire   am I being dense? I can't find a preference for allowonshelfholds... (was just snooping about)
15:14 cait            LibraryClaire: it used to be a pref - has been moved inot the circulatoin conditions now
15:14 cait            since... 3.20?
15:14 oleonard        Yes they slipped it in when I wasn't looking
15:14 cait            heh
15:15 LibraryClaire   cait: thank you! I knew I had seen it but couldn't find it for hte life of me...
15:15 cait            glad you are looking again :)
15:21 oleonard        Is Bug 15545 just a workaround for the problem of placing a hold on multiple items on one record?
15:21 huginn`         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15545 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Needs Signoff , Optionally require notes when placing a hold
15:21 oleonard        ...or of not wanting to allow item-level holds except for certain types of records?
15:36 cait            oleonard: hm - I think it was something else, but not sure right now
15:38 cait            when in doubt, ask :)
15:42 oleonard        I asked :)
15:45 kidclamp        thanks oleonard, now I see the problem
15:45 oleonard        Great.
16:05 gmcharlt_       may be of interest: some vulnernabilities in the OpenSSH client were discovered: https://www.qualys.com/2016/01/14/cve-2016-0777-cve-2016-0778/openssh-cve-2016-0777-cve-2016-0778.txt
16:06 reiveune        bye
16:11 oleonard        I *do not like* that the checkin page doesn't list items scanned which weren't checked out. Hate it.
16:11 kidclamp        I concur
16:12 kidclamp        I have just been wondering the best fix to get it back oleonard.  Syspref?
16:12 oleonard        Yeah I think so.
16:12 kidclamp        Even errored ones that don't check in, I'd rather have in the list with an error note
16:12 oleonard        Should have been a preference to begin with.
16:13 kidclamp        Yeah, that one slipped right by, no idea how
16:19 oleonard        kidclamp: Does Bug 14576 eliminate the need for the  InProcessingToShelvingCart and ReturnToShelvingCart preferences?
16:19 huginn`         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14576 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nick, Needs Signoff , Allow arbitrary automatic update of location on checkin
16:21 kidclamp        oleonard, that wasn't the intention, but maybe?  I would have to look a bit
16:23 oleonard        kidclamp: At best there is an opportunity to simplify, and at worst there is a chance those preferences are in conflict with your patch somehow?
16:23 cait            kidclamp: guess I am to blame there
16:23 cait            was not aware that people really liked it
16:23 cait            the 'checked in' thing
16:23 kidclamp        cait: you don't knwo what you don't know.  I didn't know how much I liked it til it was gone
16:24 cait            thx :)
16:25 kidclamp        thanks/grrr oleonard, I need to investigate
16:54 oleonard        Ugh... automatically generated self-registration passwords can contain a double quote, and when you fill in the login form automatically with that value it breaks the HTML
16:56 cait            ew
16:56 cait            why generate them differently then in staff?
17:00 oleonard        Reading the comments on Bug 15343, what does "Password field when does not follow convention completely when mandatory" mean?
17:00 huginn`         04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15343 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nick, Needs Signoff , Allow patrons to choose their own password on self registration.
17:02 kidclamp_dnd    I think remove the first 'when' from that sentence
17:15 gaetan_B        bye