IRC log for #koha, 2015-12-21

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:23 wizzyrea frankenkoha
00:23 wizzyrea best.
00:30 dcook Does anyone know if there are any problems running Koha on Debian Jessie?
00:30 dcook I remember there used to be, but unsure if they're been resolved..
00:54 wizzyrea we have it running on jessie in a number of instances
00:54 wizzyrea and it seems to be working fine
00:54 wizzyrea have more trouble with ubuntu, tbh.
01:03 dcook Yeah?
01:04 wizzyrea yeah, things like "task scheduler doesn't work"
01:05 dcook Ahh
01:05 dcook I think I actually just found a bug in Debian :p
01:05 dcook Well, Gnome at least..
01:06 dcook Gotta love variables like "NoDisplay=false"
01:07 dcook I guess "Display" is probably already taken... so they had to use the negative
01:08 wizzyrea I don't think I've ever used a gui on debian proper.
01:09 dcook "Main Menu" seems to create a local desktop launcher in ~/.local/share/applications which gets called ahead of /usr/share/applications/, but it doesn't seem to actually update either..
01:09 dcook Really?
01:09 wizzyrea I don't mean that as a rude thing, only as a fact. Really.
01:09 dcook I think I've been using Debian as a desktop OS since 2013?
01:09 dcook Oh, I didn't think it was a rude thing
01:09 dcook I know Ubuntu and Mint tend to be the typical desktop choices
01:10 wizzyrea yeah, I've used both of those
01:10 wizzyrea but not debian itself.
01:11 dcook Honestly, I had thought about switching over to Ubuntu
01:11 dcook But after a botched minor upgrade on Ubuntu caused issues on my laptop, I figured I'd go for the stability of Debian on my desktop
01:12 dcook The Ubuntu thing probably wasn't that bad, but it was late and brain was a bit mushy
01:12 dcook Couldn't log in though :/
01:12 dcook Of course, that happened while upgrading Debian, except that I actually sorted that out as it was in the morning
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04:58 Amit_Gupta hi all
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07:33 drojf morning
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07:57 reiveune hello
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08:10 cait morning #koha
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08:23 gaetan_B hello
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08:59 * magnuse waves
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09:19 Joubu morning
09:20 cait morning Joubu
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09:53 LibraryClaire morning #koha
09:55 cait morning LibraryClaire :)
09:55 LibraryClaire hi cait :)
09:56 magnuse hiya LibraryClaire
09:57 * LibraryClaire waves
10:04 * magnuse translates
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12:31 cait Joubu++
12:31 cait taking care of the bad bugs
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12:49 oleonard Hi #koha
12:50 LibraryClaire hi oleonard
13:01 cait really quiet here currently, you can feel the holidays are close :)
13:02 LibraryClaire 1.5 more days left :))
13:05 oleonard It's not the holidays, it's everyone staying offline to avoid Star Wars spoilers.
13:06 LibraryClaire haha
13:06 LibraryClaire I saw it Friday, am now safe
13:07 barton joined #koha
13:08 cait :)
13:08 cait just one question: do i want to see the new movie? i love the old 3 movies... the new ones not so much
13:09 oleonard cait: In my opinion you do want to see the new movie.
13:10 LibraryClaire yes
13:10 cait I will trust you :)
13:10 LibraryClaire I would be quite happy to see it again
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13:15 * ashimema wants to see it..
13:15 * ashimema doubts he's going to have a child free moment to get out and see it any time soon.
13:16 * ashimema has just been catching up on the perl advent calendar..
13:16 ashimema why have I never used Smart::Comments..
13:16 ashimema and 'ooh, signatures.. shiny' come to mind :)
13:16 oleonard The "Your suggestions for a new name of Koha NA" thread is really embarrassing.
13:17 cait ashimema: link? :)
13:17 * cait sends oleonard cookies
13:17 ashimema
13:17 cait thx ashimema :)
13:17 ashimema
13:17 ashimema and
13:17 ashimema
13:18 ashimema are of particular insterest for those two comments ;)
13:18 ashimema but allot of the articles of interesting
13:19 ashimema so little 'stuff' out there actually specifies a perl version though.. so if your relying on cpan modules your unlikely to be able to use allot of 'features' :(
13:20 ashimema even mojolicious is fairly pinned at a supported perl version from days past.. they're love to use signatures but can't really without upsetting allot of their downstream ecosystem.
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13:31 * druthb finds the "new name" thread, and gets out the popcorn.
13:31 cait the last one from mirko is... going to be interestng
13:32 LibraryClaire hah
13:33 tcohen morning
13:33 tcohen morning
13:37 drojf joined #koha
13:37 drojf hi
13:37 cait drojf: not sure if that was brave or not ;)
13:37 drojf ?
13:38 cait your last email :)
13:38 drojf what exactly?
13:38 drojf ah. oh haha
13:38 oleonard drojf++
13:39 drojf but seriously, it's hard to understand from the outside
13:43 cait travelling today?
13:44 drojf yup
13:44 cait do i have to worry? :P
13:45 drojf huh?
13:46 cait just joking, travelling because of the holidays?
13:50 cait hmpf :P
13:54 * druthb hmpfs at drojf too
13:55 drojf come on, group hmpfing against a single person is not fair
13:56 liw hmpfs is not a filesystem I have heard of
13:57 druthb You earned extra hmpfs, drojf.
13:57 drojf why? what did i do? :(
13:58 druthb Don't mess with the cait!  :P
14:00 magnuse ashimema: mtj  was keen to use Smart::Comments a while back, i think. "grep -rn "Smart::Comments" *" gives you 8 results, all commented out
14:00 magnuse (in koha, that is)
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14:06 magnuse hmpfs himself into translating those last 560 words
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14:21 tcohen we should re-design our XSLTs for the UI, so people can actually take advantage of xslt capabilities
14:22 Cybermon hello
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14:24 oleonard Man, Koha really is crap at limiting holds by item type. We shouldn't even pretend it's possible.
14:27 magnuse \o/ translation of 3.22 done! (at least the parts i care about)
14:29 tcohen how is it possible that we make people maintain their own xslt forkto just tweak some fields?
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14:31 Cybermon i have problem for fine. not changed 0 of my fine grace.
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14:33 eythian @later tell drojf you're offline, I can only assume you've crossed borders and don't have roaming on. Will see you at Centraal!
14:33 huginn eythian: The operation succeeded.
14:34 magnuse @later tell ashimema see also bug 7218
14:34 huginn magnuse: The operation succeeded.
14:34 ashimema :)
14:34 cait oleonard++
14:36 Joubu ashimema: with a good/used logger, we don't need Smart::Comments
14:36 cait eythian: lol
14:36 ashimema I wasn't really advocating it for Koha ;)
14:36 ashimema more liking the look of it for my own uses ;)
14:36 ashimema mostly.. 'it looks like a good tool for deciphering what some other persons scripts are doing' in the future ;)
14:36 cait tcohen: we DO maintain our own little fork ;)
14:37 cait so i'd say very likely - as we try to avoid customizations quite strictly usually
14:37 ashimema ashamedly.. most of us do cait
14:37 * ashimema needs more tea
14:37 oleonard Oh I guess I should be specific: Koha is crap at limiting holds by item-level item type.
14:38 tcohen yes, but what is the point of having a stylesheet-like tool, and not take advantage of it?
14:38 * ashimema just got a sneaky peak at tomorrows advent entry.. tis all about Mojo::UserAgent :)
14:38 tcohen we could have templates for each thing we show, and let the users "overrride" only that template
14:38 oleonard Not thrilled about this message, either: "Owen Leonard can only place a maximum of total holds." I think somebody a number there.
14:38 tcohen or even add new ones
14:38 cait oleonard: hm strange - i think it does work to some extend
14:39 Cybermon any bugs related circulation of librarian for koha 3.22. when we make circulation, error Koha Session Time Out, when we make circulation by super librarian. it works.
14:39 eythian oleonard: that thread is ridiculous/entertaining. Half the people replying aren't listening to the other half at all.
14:39 cait oleonard: but we are mostly only using the 'no holds allowed' option
14:39 cait tcohen: i totally agree
14:39 eythian Rilarious must be the word
14:40 cait Cybermon: hm did you flush your cache/cookies after the update?
14:40 cait i have seen some weird things happening with old cookies
14:40 oleonard eythian: It's a curious mix of jokey answers and accusations of racism :|
14:41 Cybermon @cait. Thanks. Let me try it. other problem is not showing patron photo too. only works for super librarian
14:41 huginn Cybermon: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready
14:41 cait Cybermon: for that i'd check the permissions and pref - just to make sure
14:42 Cybermon @huginn thanks, I wanna know the RDA too
14:42 huginn Cybermon: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready
14:42 oleonard What did Bug 12632 do, if not enable hold limits for items with item level itemtypes?
14:42 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12632 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Stable , Hold limits ignored for record level holds with item level itemtypes
14:42 cait oleonard: i think i am thinking of a different setting - was thining about the holds rules on the circulation condition page
14:43 Cybermon @cait, which permissions and pref.
14:43 huginn Cybermon: I suck
14:43 cait oleonard: i think actually kyle's patch is about using the record level itemtype for tte maxreserves setting
14:44 cait checking
14:44 cait patronimages system preference
14:44 oleonard cait: That's not how it looks based on the test plan.
14:45 cait batch_upload_patron_images permission
14:45 oleonard Cybermon: You don't need to put @ in front of names. It confuses huginn the bot.
14:45 Cybermon cait. thanks. let me try it.
14:45 Cybermon okay oleonard
14:46 cait oleonard: maybe the difference is in the type of hold? record level = record itemtype, item level - item itype?
14:48 oleonard khall around?
14:49 Cybermon my circulation fine is not working always with 0. any things to remind to configure,
14:50 cait Cybermon: what ddo you mean by circulation fine and where have you configured it?
14:52 Cybermon yes. I have circulation rule for Defining circulation and fine rules for all libraries.
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15:02 cait did you change the finesmode preference, Cybermon?
15:04 Cybermon I am planning it on tomorrow.
15:07 Cybermon before do it, i would like clarify that we have about 300 cost for each book of home loan per day, fine amount is about 1000 for each book per day after when finished date of home loan period.
15:08 cait the rental fne is a one time fine
15:08 cait only on checkout and for renewal, not per day
15:09 cait so there is only a one time fee before the book gets overdue, then you can charge daily
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15:09 Cybermon yes rental fine is one time. depending how many days. 3 days = 900 for each book. etc
15:12 Cybermon cait, would you mind to send your email contact ?
15:12 oleonard Cybermon: It's not polite to ask to contact someone here directly, since everyone is a volunteer.
15:13 Cybermon sorry oleonard
15:13 cait yes, sorry, i can only help here if time permits
15:14 cait you canalso ask questions on the mailnig list of course
15:14 Cybermon sure.
15:15 Cybermon thanks again your help. Cait
15:15 Cybermon and time too
15:16 Cybermon actually, I guess that we are in time differences, that is why asked contact here. anyway.
15:24 Cybermon bye all, see you
15:32 * cait stares at a list of relator codes and sighs
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16:18 reiveune bye
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17:06 bora joined #koha
17:06 bora Hello
17:06 bora i am look for help on koha upgrad version
17:07 bora i want to upgrad my current version 3.14 to 3.22
17:07 bora anyone can help please
17:07 bora ?
17:08 bora hello
17:08 bora can u help me please
17:08 bora ?
17:09 * ashimema is clocking off now.. bad timing bora
17:10 kidclamp hi bora, what kind of install is your current version?
17:10 bora 3.12 i am look to update to version 3.22
17:12 bora i want o update from koha version 3.12 to 3.22
17:12 bora kidclamp a you there ?
17:12 kidclamp do you know how the system was originally installed?
17:13 bora i install on debian os
17:13 kidclamp installed using the debian packages or from source?
17:13 burdsjm joined #koha
17:14 bora i add koha source to debian
17:14 bora on /etc/apt/deb stable main
17:15 bora i have add this to etc/apt/sources.list
17:15 kidclamp sounds like a package install
17:15 kidclamp[…]rade_Instructions
17:16 kidclamp if oyu are running in production I would ensure you have backups etc
17:16 bora this is for ubuntu
17:16 bora but i am install on debain
17:16 bora yes, that is package install on debian
17:16 kidclamp the method should be the same
17:16 bora do this methos for ubuntu work  with debian ?
17:17 cdickinson_ joined #koha
17:18 bora sorry have u try this and its work for u ?
17:21 kidclamp not in a production environment, not a sysadmin :-)
17:21 kidclamp the procedure is very basic, and everything "should" go smoothly
17:21 kidclamp but if you are unsure of what you are doing you might want to find someone who can help fully in case of any problem
17:22 bora ok
17:22 bora thank kidclamp
17:23 cait left #koha
17:23 bora its could be nice if i can keep in touch with you on google plus
17:28 kidclamp bora I don't really use it, but you can often find me here
17:28 kidclamp the listservs are another good place for questions as you don't have to rely on catching the right time
17:28 kidclamp lists?
17:28 kidclamp listservs?
17:29 kidclamp[…]ha-mailing-lists/
17:30 bora ok
17:30 bora thank
17:45 oleonard Now we're into the "Why should this group be the way it is?" phase of the KohaNA-renaming thread. Because the people who showed up to the meetings said so?
18:22 Joubu bye #koha
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19:04 gaetan_B bye
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20:13 wizzyrea hi oleonard :D
20:14 oleonard Hi wizzyrea
20:15 eythian hi wizzyrea
20:16 wizzyrea heya :D
20:21 oleonard And bye wizzyrea (and all) :D
20:21 wizzyrea Star wars! Spoilers! OMGZORS.
20:21 wizzyrea bye oleonard!
20:21 wizzyrea he's so fast on that quit button.
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22:00 francesca Hi
22:02 wizzyrea hi francesca
22:03 cait1 joined #koha
22:03 * cait1 waves
22:05 eythian hi cait1
22:05 cait1 hello
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22:12 francesca joined #koha
22:29 * dcook waves
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22:54 wizzyrea hi dcook
22:54 eythian[…]entrum-amsterdam/ <-- I started a sort of project
22:55 dcook heya wizzyrea
22:55 wizzyrea \o/ projects!
22:55 wizzyrea catchy name
22:55 dcook hehe
22:56 dcook I like that it's in alphabetical order
22:56 wizzyrea same
22:59 alex_ joined #koha
22:59 eythian secretly, it just makes it easier to keep track of :)
23:00 dcook How many museums are there?
23:00 * wizzyrea blames the librarian blood
23:00 dcook Ah, there's a list
23:00 * dcook should really see more of Sydney one day
23:00 wizzyrea I have a few more wellington ones to see
23:00 grharry Hello Koha!
23:01 eythian dcook: yeah, I just pasted all the 'a' ones into a todo list, and tick them off as I go. Then the 'b's, and so forth
23:01 wizzyrea ^.^
23:01 eythian wizzyrea: it's because I was rubbish at doing the wellington ones that I'm doing this :)
23:02 wizzyrea I really want to get over to the katherine mansfield house. It just never seems to happen.
23:04 grharry I am running v 3.22 and I notice that OAI services are really really slowwwww !!!!
23:05 wizzyrea hmm
23:05 grharry I came up to the conclusion that the SQL query is to blame !
23:05 grharry that consists of
23:05 grharry 3 joins
23:06 grharry and a UNION
23:06 grharry and lots of DATE(timestamp) functions
23:07 grharry I have no idea how to find out where and what to optimize
23:07 eythian grharry: it's a good chance to learn the 'explain' mysql command :)
23:07 grharry since I am not aware of any profiler mysql  tool
23:07 eythian maybe there's a missing index or something
23:08 grharry eythian: So far all indexes seem to be ok
23:08 eythian explain will tell you in graphic details what's going on
23:09 cait1 grharry: hm possible it has to do with the new deleted records support?
23:09 cait1 that would explain the join
23:09 cait1 probably on deleted* ?
23:09 grharry I tried the queries
23:09 grharry without the deleted records
23:10 grharry I am sure that the DATE(timestamp) and timestamp
23:10 grharry and comparisons in the where clause
23:10 grharry SLOW things down a lot !
23:11 grharry this is a killer NO 1 "WHERE timestamp >= '1970-01-01 00:00:00' AND timestamp <= '2015-12-21 23:59:59'"
23:11 eythian is there an index on the timestamp column?
23:11 dcook ^
23:11 grharry killer NO 2 "WHERE DATE(timestamp) >= '1970-01-01T00:00:00Z' AND DATE(timestamp) <= '2015-12-21T23:59:59Z'  "
23:11 grharry YES
23:11 grharry there are indexes
23:12 grharry show create table ....
23:12 eythian are they being used?
23:12 dcook Explain would probably show that
23:12 dcook At least explain analyze would in postgres..
23:12 grharry hm ...
23:12 grharry I have no idea if they are used
23:12 grharry :(
23:13 dcook Might be useful:[…]sing-explain.html
23:14 cait1 hm that doesn#t seem to make sense
23:14 cait1 why compare a date to a timestamp?
23:14 dcook True true
23:14 dcook It's probably just passing it in straight
23:14 dcook Even though Koha only supports date granularity for OAI
23:15 cait1 hm should refomat to database format and then compare i guess?
23:15 * dcook thinks the timestamp/date/granularity thing should be revisited at some point, but he doesn't have time for it these days
23:15 * eythian goes to bed. later all!
23:16 grharry ok explain says indexes are used
23:16 wizzyrea sleep well :)
23:16 grharry GN
23:16 grharry :)
23:16 dcook night eythian
23:16 francesca_ joined #koha
23:17 dcook In terms of speed, it also depends on database size
23:17 grharry cait1: changing DATE(timestamp) to timestamp .... does not improve a lot
23:17 dcook If you have 1 million records between those dates, it's probably going to take a while
23:18 cait1 grharry: maybe date to date would... but still makes no sense the way it is :)
23:18 grharry dcook: the problem is that it takes always "a while " to fetch 50 by 50 records
23:19 grharry cait1: I don't disagree! I think the whole approach logic
23:19 grharry requires some re-evaluation!
23:19 dcook grharry: What's "a while"?
23:20 grharry 1 min
23:20 dcook Hmm..
23:20 grharry for every 50 recs
23:20 grharry for a 500.000 recs
23:20 grharry it's 50000 mins
23:21 dcook Hmm, I just got 50 records from a different OAI-PMH server in 6 seconds, so I can understand 60 seconds being a while :p
23:21 dcook Although that server probably has way better servers than you do
23:21 dcook Err
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23:21 dcook That server is probably much nicer :p
23:22 dcook grharry: In theory, the first harvest should always be the worst
23:22 grharry 833 hours !!!!  no way
23:22 grharry v3.20.3 was a lot faster
23:22 dcook Good point
23:23 dcook I think on 3.8 or 3.10 I harvested about 70,000 records in 8 hours or so
23:23 dcook So 28800 seconds
23:24 dcook Actually, that wasn't just downloading. That was everything..
23:24 dcook So probably much faster than that
23:24 grharry there is always a "but"
23:24 dcook Well, you could compare v3.20.3 with v3.22
23:24 grharry 3.20.xx did not offer items support
23:24 grharry I think
23:24 dcook Probably
23:24 dcook I can't remember when that came about
23:25 dcook That would also slow it down
23:25 grharry yes
23:25 dcook Probably significantly
23:25 dcook Are you using items as well?
23:25 grharry I tested both
23:25 grharry Both are not acceptable !!!
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23:26 grharry Confused !!! :|
23:29 grharry 51 rows in set, 3 warnings (58.00 sec)
23:29 dcook 3 warnings? I assume that has to do with the timestamps
23:29 alex_ 0
23:29 alex_ down vote
23:29 alex_ favorite
23:29 alex_
23:29 alex_ I am trying to clone and set up my kohadevbox on my Ubuntu VirtualBox. But after writing in 'vagrant up' to start a new dev box I get the error:
23:29 alex_ "The box you're adding has a name different from the name you requested. For boxes with metadata, you cannot override the name. If you're adding a box using vagrant box add, don't specify the --name parameter. If the box is being added via a Vagrantfile, change the value to match the name below. Requested name: chef/debian-7.8 Actual name: bento/debian-7.8 "
23:29 alex_ My research online suggested that I needed to change the vagrantfile from chef/debian-7.8 to bento/debian-7.8 When I did this I found that I got another error message saying:
23:29 alex_ "The SSH command responded with a non-zero exit status. Vagrant assumes that this means the command failed. The output for this command should be in the log above. Please read the output to determine what went wrong." But when I search localhost:8080 in my web browser I get the Koha OPAC interface appearing. So is it correct to change chef/debian-7.8 to bento/debian-7.8 in the vagrantfile?
23:29 dcook grharry: Well, you have options. You can file a bug report, you can work on a fix yourself, you can pay someone to try to fix it for you.
23:30 grharry You can file a bug report = :)
23:30 dcook Excuse me?
23:31 dcook
23:31 grharry Very slow there too! :)
23:31 dcook O_o
23:32 grharry any way
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23:33 wizzyrea alex_: that message doesn't seem to have any functional consequences
23:33 wizzyrea vagrant ssh still works.
23:33 grharry thanks for u help!
23:33 dcook No worries. I hope you're able to find a solution.
23:34 cait joined #koha
23:34 cait sorry... laptop died
23:34 wizzyrea ^.^ it happens
23:35 dcook grharry: For what it's worth, I doubt I'll be looking into that issue any time soon, as I probably won't be using anything newer than 3.20.x for a while
23:35 dcook But there might be other people out there who will
23:35 cait filing a bug is always good
23:35 dcook So if you report it on Bugzilla, or on one of the Koha listservs, it opens up a discussion with others
23:36 dcook Versus the people who just happen to be on IRC when you are online as well ;)
23:36 dcook This is probably one of the least busy times of day I think?
23:36 grharry timestamp is a problem here
23:36 dcook Write it in the bug report for sure then :)
23:37 grharry first part of query SELECT biblioitems.biblionumber, biblioitems.timestamp, marcxml   FROM biblioitems JOIN oai_sets_biblios ON biblioitems.biblionumber = oai_sets_biblios.biblionumber  LIMIT 51 OFFSET 0
23:37 grharry 0 secs
23:37 grharry but no timestamp
23:37 dcook I keep finding I'm using Karen Etheridge's modules... just learned that she lives in Vancouver. That's pretty cool..
23:37 grharry I think it's a mysql usage issue
23:37 grharry and a matter of a really bad query
23:38 grharry I am talking about really really bad sql
23:38 dcook Please feel free to fix it :)
23:38 grharry I am not a MySQL expert
23:38 wizzyrea yep, you get your name in the history if you fix a thing.
23:38 grharry :)
23:39 grharry I sell it to some people too !! :)
23:39 wizzyrea I bet you're more of an expert than you realise.
23:39 wizzyrea give it a go, it might be great.
23:39 grharry No I am not
23:39 grharry I used to be good with ORACLE
23:39 grharry but mysql
23:39 grharry no
23:40 wizzyrea *shrug* as you say
23:40 grharry I dont think mysql is a real database !!
23:40 grharry :)
23:40 dcook ...
23:40 * rangi grins
23:40 wizzyrea well that's all fair, we don't think oracle is a real one.
23:40 rangi exactly
23:40 grharry yep ... sybase is better ?
23:41 * wizzyrea checks the license on koha
23:41 rangi sybase is dead
23:41 wizzyrea yep, still gpl.
23:41 rangi ive had to admin sybase and oracle dbs
23:41 rangi they need way too much care and attention
23:42 wizzyrea they make the plastic baby cry a lot.
23:42 rangi postgres .. i'll give you that one :)
23:42 rangi having said all that
23:43 rangi what you are looking for is explain
23:44 rangi explain query
23:44 rangi will tell you how it is being evaluated
23:44 rangi oh dcook already told you
23:44 rangi if you see writing to tempfile
23:44 rangi or all
23:45 rangi or anything like that, thats a really big hint
23:45 * rangi goes to lunch
23:46 francescam joined #koha

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