IRC log for #koha, 2015-12-09

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:00 rangi ill have to have a think about how to deal with it, it always derails useful threads
00:01 wizzyrea perhaps? it's a guarantee.
00:03 kathryn joined #koha
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00:06 drojf i'd like a list option to have someone subscribed and receive all mail, but their own emails only go back to them, pretending to go to everyone
00:06 wizzyrea hm. Sounds like a technical solution to a people problem.
00:07 drojf i don't think i can solve the people problem in this case
00:17 wizzyrea is the merge authority cronjob still needed?
00:17 wizzyrea clearly so I'd reckon.
00:19 wizzyrea just ignore that.
00:20 drojf oh my it's late
00:21 magnuse joined #koha
00:21 drojf pretty late for magnuse too
00:21 mtj rangi: do you have an example of a SIP checkout string? perhaps?
00:22 mtj 11YN20151209    13103220151210    131032AO|AAtest|AB20150011|AC
00:22 rangi yep
00:23 mtj ^ thats mine.. but i get a stupid 'Blocking checkout Reason:INVALID_DATE' error
00:23 mtj and both dates look ok to me
00:23 mtj 20151209    131032 | 20151210    131032
00:24 mtj Dec  9 13:20:39 b32 koha_sip[23753]: ILS::Transaction::Checkout performing checkout...
00:24 mtj Dec  9 13:20:39 b32 koha_sip[23753]: Blocking checkout Reason:INVALID_DATE
00:24 mtj Dec  9 13:20:39 b32 koha_sip[23753]: ILS::Checkout Issue failed
00:24 rangi dont send a due date
00:24 rangi 11YN20151209    123211                  AOL|AAK00030511|ABL03365685|AC
00:25 rangi try that without the second date
00:25 rangi let koha work it out
00:25 wizzyrea yeah the selfcheck wouldn't know what to set the duedate to
00:25 wizzyrea it doesn't have the rules
00:25 mtj yep, ok... i tried that 1st (fwiw)
00:26 mtj ..i was confused by the spec.. says its a '18 char, required field'
00:27 rangi yeah spaces matter
00:27 mtj tho, i guess that migth be 18 spaces too huh?
00:27 rangi yep
00:27 * rangi heads out
00:27 drojf rangi: you mentioned updating cached values instead of flushing everything a few days ago. i'd like to look into the cache flushing problem related to MARC structure when i have some time. do we have examples for updating it that in koha, or where could i get some info about it? never really done anything with cache in koha (or elsewhere)
00:27 drojf heh timing is everything
00:29 mtj meh, and still the same error for me :/
00:33 mtj ..i might have to leave that bug, for now
00:42 drojf i should go to bed. good night
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02:44 dcook Wow... you know it's a busy day when it's 1:44pm and you just remembered that you bought pastries for breakfast... and forgot to eat them
02:51 ibeardslee wow
02:52 wizzyrea who forgets to eat?
02:56 dcook wizzyrea: This guy
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03:01 * francesca waves
03:01 francesca @wunder wlg
03:01 huginn` francesca: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 15.0°C (3:30 PM NZDT on December 09, 2015). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 63%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady).
03:03 wizzyrea hi francesca
03:03 wizzyrea ibeardslee: like the thin sheets of foam?
03:04 wizzyrea maybe at bunnings, as flooring underlay
03:09 ibeardslee hmm
03:09 wizzyrea i'm not sure it's LDPE though, it varies
03:11 wizzyrea[…]te-11m2_p06650147 < a la
03:14 wizzyrea ibeardslee: also these people sell lots of stuff like that
03:15 wizzyrea possibly a better link
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03:34 ibeardslee thanks, given them a call and left a message
03:35 wizzyrea good luck
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05:09 t4nk726 Good morning
05:09 wahanui the only good morning is a dead one
05:11 dcook Well that's dark
05:12 t4nk726 hello
05:12 wahanui kia ora, t4nk726
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07:11 * Oak waves
07:11 Oak magnuse
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07:26 magnuse Oak!
07:26 * magnuse waves
07:26 Oak \o/
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07:51 reiveune hello
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07:59 alex_a bonjour
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08:04 Joubu hi
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08:12 ashimema did you see bug 15333 Joubu :)
08:12 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=15333 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Use Koha::Cache for caching all holidays
08:12 ashimema morning #koha
08:13 ashimema I wonder if we could somehow work on a performance regression test for this stuff..
08:13 * ashimema goes to get breakfast
08:15 Joubu ashimema: yep I have seen it :)
08:17 Joubu but as I said yesterday, I don't think we are gonna win a lot there
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08:32 gaetan_B hello
08:37 ashimema did you also see my mail about Time::Moment?
08:38 ashimema witout profiling, I'm not sure how you can make such a judgment regarding caching the other holidays..?
08:40 ashimema I think caching special_holdays will make a difference myself..
08:41 ashimema two of our most performance deprived systems havve 262 and 921 rows in the special holidays tables respectively..
08:41 ashimema caching means we won't be doing 262*3 db hits and 262*3 DateTime instantiations..
08:41 ashimema that's got to help in my book ;)
08:44 ashimema Joubu.. do you think we could stick a db-dependant test in that does a Benchmark run to warn if this code gets dramatically slower at any point in the future?
08:45 Joubu currently the tests don't depend on a caching system
08:49 * cait waves
08:49 Oak Hello cait!
08:49 cait hi Oak :)
08:50 ashimema do we have any form of nieve in memory caching?
08:50 * ashimema also doesn't understand why Koha::Cache is the way it is..
08:53 magnuse ashimema: nieve?
08:54 ashimema I can't spell today.. I meant 'Naive'.. i.e. simple
08:54 ashimema along the lines of
08:55 ashimema There are some things that could/should be cached even without a full fledged cache system in place..
08:55 ashimema we've got rid of lots of global variable to become plack safe..
08:55 ashimema those were in effect the sort of thing I was thinking about
08:56 ashimema it'll never help CGI..
08:57 * magnuse was afraid it was "Archaic Northern British and Scot. Dialect. a clenched or closed hand; fist."
08:57 ashimema but we should really be optimizing for persistent apps now we have plack support being tested properly in master (we now have our three biggest sites all using plack (with a CGI backup running in parallel in case plack explodes).. in a live environment)
08:57 ashimema haha..
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08:58 * magnuse also has his biggest customer running plack, but without a backup
08:58 ashimema anyone know what the story was around moving away from CHI and developing our own cache scheme instead>
08:58 ashimema we found plack crashed too much early on to not have the CGI fallback.
08:59 ashimema we're slowly weaning them off the fallback though ;)
08:59 ashimema how big is big for you magnuse.. if you don't mind me asking?
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09:00 cait ashimema: i am not sure what CHI is even... so i am out
09:00 cait i think there is an ongoing dicussion about where to put configuration tho
09:00 ashimema ours is, 241,658 active users, 278,760 biblioitems
09:01 ashimema CHI is a very well respected Cache abstraction layer in CPAN cait..
09:01 cait it eems to be still listed
09:01 cait in some of the files like debian/list-deps
09:02 ashimema basically, it gives you a common standardised API that can talk to a myriad of actualy cache back ends..
09:02 cait iguess jared would know
09:03 ashimema well I can't find any mention of it in any actual code any more ;)
09:03 ashimema Koha::Cache removed it
09:03 cait he wrote both - chi sand the new one it seems
09:03 cait CHI was incompatible with the variable tying, so this patch also removes
09:03 cait the dependency on CHI, using instead Cache::Memcached::Fast,
09:03 cait Cache::FastMmap, and Cache::Memory, when they are available.
09:03 cait[…]10506e171e79a8c05
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09:04 drojf morning #koha
09:04 ashimema yeah..
09:04 ashimema I don't entirely understand what he means by 'variable typing' though ;)
09:07 ashimema to me, it looks like it adds complication without much reward.. but I'm likely being naive.. I would really like to know the 'why' it was done though.. in less technical speak than that commit message
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09:18 ashimema just as I thought might be the case..
09:18 ashimema I can't find a single mention of the 'tied' cache stuff outside of Koha::Cache..
09:18 ashimema ->create_hash and ->create_scalar are not called anywhere in the code at all.. it might have been a good idea at the time but I don't think anyone understand how it's meant to work.
09:19 ashimema could do with jcamins popping up to put me in my place around about now ;)
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09:27 Joubu ashimema: did you read the pod?
09:28 ashimema yup..
09:28 ashimema it's a tied variable that's cached..
09:28 ashimema but I don't see it actually in use anywhere in our codebase
09:28 ashimema only the OO aproach
09:28 Joubu no, it's not
09:28 ashimema ?
09:28 ashimema not used?
09:28 ashimema or not tied
09:29 Joubu yes, it's not used :)
09:29 ashimema lol..
09:29 ashimema why did we bother with it.. do you know the history?
09:29 ashimema just seems odd to me to move away from a really well documented and well maintained library..
09:29 Joubu Regarding the sign-off-by line I have tested it
09:29 ashimema to invent our own api instead.
09:29 Joubu but I cannot remember
09:29 ashimema hehe..
09:30 ashimema I'm sure it works..
09:30 ashimema it jsut seems to overcomplicate a bit to me ;)
09:30 Joubu the idea was to simplify the cache system of Koha
09:30 Joubu the idea of the tie interface, I don't remember anything about that
09:30 ashimema but I may well be missing something fundamental.. my point is that I don't know anyone who does know how to use it ;)
09:31 Joubu ashimema: bug 8089 uses it
09:31 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8089 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, ASSIGNED , Use Koha::Cache everywhere
09:31 ashimema lol..
09:31 ashimema back from 2012 ;)
09:33 ashimema is that a case of 'too much in one bug?'
09:33 cait one of the many things that got stuck i guess :(
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09:34 ashimema there's activity in it from early last year.
09:34 ashimema by eythian
09:35 ashimema but no further followups to actually get things moving forward again
09:36 Joubu it has been pushed actually, then reverted
09:36 Joubu "It does, however, eliminate the problem of sysprefs not getting updated in all threads in multi-threaded environments."
09:37 Joubu it seems that the goal was to fix what we have poorly fixed in koha.psgi with the clear_pref call
09:42 ashimema I see
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09:48 magnuse ashimema: not terribly big - 91 621 items, 14 475 borrowers
09:49 magnuse i have a vague impression that CHI was dropped because it was hard to package for debian, but that might be utterly wrong
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10:02 ashimema really..
10:02 wahanui hmmm... really is more trouble than she's worth.
10:02 ashimema I'd be surprised if it wasn't already packaged..
10:02 ashimema it's pretty much the defacto cache abstraction library for Perl.
10:02 ashimema oh well
10:03 ashimema Might be worth investing some time in 8089 if it actually uses Koha::Cache to all it's advantages.
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10:03 ashimema I'd like to see caching done more thoroughly in general
10:16 magnuse cache all the things!
10:17 cait does someone kow if we have documentation about the 'download a dump of your database' feature?
10:17 cait i thought that was something that could be activated somehow - for the packages?
10:18 ashimema I tihnk there's a config option cait
10:18 magnuse you must enable it in koha-conf.xml, i think?
10:18 ashimema as in koha-conf.xml
10:18 cait hm, does somene have a keyowrd i could use for searching maybe?
10:19 magnuse <backup_db_via_tools>0</backup_db_via_tools>
10:19 magnuse <backup_conf_via_tools>0</backup_conf_via_tools>
10:19 drojf conf won't work due to permissions
10:19 drojf i think we agreed its better that way, there is a bug
10:20 cait oh?
10:20 cait so the feature is broken?
10:21 drojf bug 14564
10:21 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14564 normal, P5 - low, ---, mirko, In Discussion , Export configuration: Unfortunately, no backups are available.
10:21 magnuse a comment in koha-con.xml says:
10:21 magnuse <!-- Enable the two following to allow superlibrarians to download
10:21 magnuse database and configuration dumps (respectively) from the Export
10:21 magnuse tool -->
10:21 drojf db works fine
10:21 drojf the other needs tweaks on the server, but has security implications
10:21 magnuse but the docs do not seem to mention this in the parts about the Export tool
10:22 drojf (file permissions on the server, not koha permissions)
10:22 cait ah
10:22 cait so db download would work?
10:22 drojf it does
10:22 cait thx!
10:22 cait drojf++
10:23 mtj ashimema:  looks like this is the patch to add CHI,  bug 8092
10:23 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8092 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, CLOSED FIXED, Koha should use CHI caching framework
10:23 ashimema yup..
10:23 mtj ..but, i dont know if/why it was later removed from koha
10:23 ashimema then he removed it again later :)
10:24 ashimema mtj.. it was to enable tied variables to be cached.
10:24 cait drojf: do you know if there is a permission check on that tool by chance?
10:24 ashimema not that we're using them anywhere at all yet.. but there is a 3 year old patch that introduces a few uses.. but it's stuck
10:24 drojf i don't
10:24 mtj ah, ok.. CHI doesnt handle that huh.. :/
10:24 ashimema apparently not..
10:25 ashimema I am a tad perplexed as to why we need them though myself ;)
10:25 drojf cait: i can have a look at my server, but i don't remember setting something
10:27 mtj ashimema: fwiw... ive have situations where i needed that in koha - so i can imagine it might be required
10:28 ashimema ooh..
10:28 ashimema please explain the use case.. I'm likely just missing something :)
10:28 ashimema and would love to learn what it is. ;)
10:30 magnuse bug 9434
10:30 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9434 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, CLOSED FIXED, Introduce new tied cache system
10:31 drojf cait: i don't see a permisson for that in tools. but i have only superlibrarians using it
10:32 drojf but it should be controlled
10:36 cait hm i will check the template - do you have the name by chance?
10:37 magnuse @later tell nengard it looks like the possibility to set <backup_db_via_tools>0</backup_db_via_tools> and <backup_conf_via_tools>0</backup_conf_via_tools> in koha-conf.xml, and then be able to download backups from Tools > Export is not documented in the manual? but see also bug 14564
10:37 huginn` magnuse: The operation succeeded.
10:37 drojf cait: i guess
10:38 cait drojf: ah it's part of the normal export page
10:38 drojf yes
10:38 drojf its another tab there
10:38 cait so possibly export_catalog
10:38 cait the tools permission
10:39 cait 207         if ( $flags->{superlibrarian} < supelibrarian
10:39 drojf ok, that is what i was hoping for ;)
10:40 cait[…]792fdbe9df10#l205
10:40 cait i am just a little worried about the check itself
10:40 cait it should be using IsSuperlibrarian or whatever it's called
10:41 drojf ok. i have never done stuff related to permissions i think
10:43 drojf not too many people up for a trip to berlin in january i guess ;)
10:43 cait i remember it was hard to check correctly, we had lots of different versions not all working, so we introduced a routine to do it correctly
10:43 cait i haven't had time to discuss it here really
10:43 cait you are impatient :)
10:43 cait drojf: also - german list?
10:44 * magnuse has other travel plans in january
10:44 mtj ashimema:  i cant recall... but ive sometimes needed to use Tie::Hash::Indexed
10:45 mtj, im thinking CHI would have a problem caching those structures?  ^
10:45 drojf cait: i would prefer to have devs first. and it is really on short notice, so maybe not even going to happen
10:45 drojf but it would be an option, so i thpought, why not ask
10:45 cait yep
10:45 magnuse drojf++
10:47 drojf i can only plan until january atm, i'd propose a later date again. i can use the room for free, there is a kitchen, a terrace and barbecue stuff too ;)
10:47 cait nice!
10:47 drojf and they are happy if free software stuff happens there
10:49 mtj a bit off-topic, but i think it would be a good idea to remove some of the 'lesser' caching options from koha
10:49 drojf but there are other events of course, so you have to set dates upfront and manoeuvre around fixed events
10:50 mtj '...using instead Cache::Memcached::Fast, Cache::FastMmap, and Cache::Memory, when they are available.'
10:52 mtj having the option of 3 caching systems, makes things tricky to debug :/
10:53 drojf shouldn't we have one way to handle cache stuff in general and it works with whatever option you use? i thought that was the purpose of koha::cache (without having looked at it)
10:57 ashimema haha.. I totally agree mtj
10:57 ashimema but felt I'd ranted anough for one day ;)
10:57 ashimema it is the point of Koha::Cache drojf
10:58 ashimema but whilst we allow for a myriad of back ends to it, there's a myriad of issues that could pop up..
10:58 mtj what he said ^
10:59 drojf ah ok. yes, for koha:cache itself it is probably a lot to debug so it actually works
10:59 drojf maybe its worth to ask on the dev list what options are actually used?
10:59 ashimema I'd rather we just have two cache systems.. personally I'd go for memcached::fast.. and as a fallback if memcached is not found I'd use some naive memory based cache.
10:59 ashimema I wonder if that information is remotely obtainable via hea?
11:00 ashimema Joubu?
11:00 wahanui Joubu is not sure how to fix that correctly
11:01 drojf lol
11:03 mtj so, any time anyone has a cache related bug.. the question is 'what cache subsystem are you using?'
11:03 mtj ..and often people dont that
11:03 drojf know?
11:03 drojf :)
11:04 mtj yeah
11:04 mtj anyhoo, i think im ranting now too
11:07 Joubu ashimema: ?
11:07 Joubu no it's not
11:08 Joubu it's an env var, not a pref
11:13 ashimema oh well
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11:32 mtj ashimema: i agree with 2 cache systems (as a start)
11:34 mtj would probably be a simple patch to remove either Cache::FastMmap or Cache::Memory
11:35 mtj i say we get rid of the slower one :)
11:37 Joubu http://lists.koha-community.or[…]-June/037515.html
11:37 Joubu [Koha-devel] using CHI directly to use all of it's advantages
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12:03 mtj thanks for the history Joubu :)
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12:45 tcohen morning
12:45 oleonard joined #koha
12:46 oleonard Hi #koha
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13:04 oleonard ashimema? Bug 15335 seems to duplicate Bug 11622
13:04 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=15335 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, martin, ASSIGNED , Online payment of fines
13:04 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11622 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Passed QA , Add ability to pay fees and fines from OPAC via PayPal
13:07 Joubu oleonard: 11622 provides the paypal way only
13:07 cait i think the preferred way here would be to use a provider
13:08 cait who coves all the different payment methods and forwards the money to the library
13:08 * oleonard has the wrong martin anyway
13:08 cait hm why the wrong martin?
13:08 cait oh
13:09 * oleonard wasn't paying attention
13:09 cait me neither :)
13:09 cait and i thik this ashimema-martin might have done something similar actually
13:10 cait morning tc
13:11 ashimema different martin ;)
13:11 cait ... I should take a break
13:11 cait ashimema: didn't you do work on online payments too or am i confusing htings? *scratches head*
13:11 ashimema I did indeed..
13:11 ashimema what i decided was that it was too hard to generalise it..
13:12 ashimema so our Online Payments (which is for the provider in the UK called WPM) is coded outside of koha.. then parachuted in via opacuserjs
13:13 ashimema wpm is also very UK centric.. so i didn't think it would stand the remotest chance of getting into community..
13:14 ashimema and it also integrates with out Cash Management piece.. which is only likely to get submitted after the accounts system is more stable.
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13:26 paul_p anyone around that could help with a git-bz setup problem ?
13:26 paul_p I'm trying to setup git-bz on my new virtual machine.
13:26 * oleonard waves to paul_p
13:26 paul_p git bz apply work well.
13:26 paul_p hi oleonard
13:27 drojf joined #koha
13:27 paul_p git bz attach give me a nasty "044de78 Bug 7728: fix subs history end date consistency
13:27 paul_p Attach? [yn] y
13:27 paul_p <!DOCTYPE html>
13:27 paul_p <html lang="en">
13:27 paul_p <head>
13:27 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7728 normal, P4, ---, paul.poulain, ASSIGNED , Fixing subscription endddate inconsistency: should be empty when the subscription is running
13:27 paul_p <title>Log in to Bugzilla</title>
13:27 paul_p <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
13:27 paul_p <link href="data/assets/a20619e3​724298545775187a20becc70.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css">
13:27 paul_p Failed to attach patch to bug 7728, status=200
13:27 paul_p I think git bz is correctly configured:
13:28 paul_p
13:28 paul_p bz-tracker.bugs.koha-communi​
13:28 paul_p bz-tracker.bugs.koha-communi​
13:29 paul_p
13:29 paul_p bz.default-product=Koha
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13:29 drojf paul_p: did you get the fishsoup branch of git-bz? (or whats it called)
13:29 paul_p drojf I followed[…]_bz_configuration
13:29 drojf ok that should be in there
13:29 paul_p but no fishsoup branch...
13:29 * paul_p check again
13:29 drojf oh
13:29 drojf wait
13:30 paul_p nope, I'm on master branch...
13:30 drojf its in the first part
13:30 drojf[…]ration#Get_git-bz
13:30 drojf checkout the fishsoup branch and try again
13:30 drojf for git-bz, not koha :)
13:31 paul_p drojf thanks ! fixed
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13:32 drojf great!
13:34 paul_p drojf = bug 7729 need a signoff ;-)
13:34 paul_p drojf = bz 7729 need a signoff ;-)
13:34 paul_p oups...
13:34 paul_p 7728, not 7729
13:34 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7729 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mjr, CLOSED FIXED, svc API should allow modification of items
13:37 drojf paul_p: sorry, busy finishing things for koha seminar tomorrow :)
13:38 paul_p drojf koha seminar ? when and where ?
13:40 drojf berlin, tomorrow. just a ittle one, i'm giving an overview, it's only ~3 hours
13:41 oleonard "only" 3 hours :)
13:43 drojf oleonard: it sounds like a lot, but it really isn't. i split it in 1,5h for system stuff and 1,5h for modules and usage… and preparing it, i think i could easily be twice the time if i am not careful :D
13:43 drojf and there needs to be time for questions too
13:46 drojf but i will mention paul_p ;)
13:47 drojf oh btw…
13:47 paul_p if you have only 3 hours don't waste your time mentioning me ;-)
13:47 drojf paul_p: people would probably be very interested in coral integration. are there any notes/ideas written down somehere about it?
13:48 paul_p drojf yes... in french. translating them in english (and writing a global unique document in french) is on my todo list...
13:49 drojf i'd try the french version to get an idea ;)
13:49 paul_p drojf can't send it today, sorry (not ready/readable)
13:49 paul_p but will do asap !
13:49 drojf ok no problem
13:49 drojf i have another seminar next week ;)
13:51 drojf got to do some shopping for tomorrow. later #koha
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14:30 magnuse[…]levels-first-time isn't bag in china now?
14:34 misilot is there a duplicate circ rule option in Koha somewhere? :) would make having to copy about 20 rules a lot easier.
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14:36 geek_cl Hi #koha  !
14:41 geek_cl here still fighting with the zebra index
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14:44 pastebot "geek_cl" at pasted "reviewing the perms of zebra and cronjobs." (272 lines) at
14:45 geek_cl new items only appears when do a full rebuild-zebra, not the incremental on cronjobs.
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15:11 geek_cl why ?
15:12 Shane-S Q: Is there a way to entered damage without changing the status, sort of like a log. I am doing it for electronics, but a book example might be "torn page". All I see is an option to change to damaged.
15:20 cait Shane-S: Damaged is an authorised value
15:20 cait you can change what shows in the pull down and have multiple values
15:20 cait look for DAMAGED in adminsitration > authorised values
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15:24 Shane-S cait: but I can't have like a log, where a user can just put a value in and have it save (with a datestamp and user checked out ID). Basically I am trying to track damage to stuff, and get a way to report on students creating the damage electronics/books/anything tracked
15:25 cait hm, i think a date is not saved - maybe you can see it in the cataloguing logs
15:25 wnickc joined #koha
15:25 cait and there is no way to link a patron to it
15:26 Shane-S cait: okay...thought so...surprised..I would think I library would like to track users who tend to damage stuff.
15:26 cait you could adda  note in the patron account
15:27 drojf joined #koha
15:27 drojf awesome, network problems
15:27 drojf i don't have time for this
15:27 * drojf sighs
15:27 cait is it today?
15:28 janPasi__ joined #koha
15:29 Shane-S cait: yeah...have to write my own little program I think, I was hoping to use Koha so the Librarian and I would be logging damage together so we could track bad kid or problem items (like a series of laptops with a keyboard issue)
15:30 Shane-S Some software out there, but it seems to be lacking that User and Device level of connectivity.
15:30 barton joined #koha
15:31 cait it's not quite made for that i think
15:37 Shane-S maybe I can try and code a module and embed it with an iframe or something.
15:38 cait maybe you could also think about a plugin
15:38 cait some libraries might be interested in using it that way :)
15:40 Joubu (bug 13618 needs urgently a signoff)
15:40 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=13618 major, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Prevent XSS in the Staff Client and the OPAC
15:40 Shane-S Maybe...there is an open source app snipeit that seemed great, but it lacked the quick and easy barcode and scanner Koha has.
15:41 Joubu (that was completely off topic)
15:41 cait not really
15:41 cait this is #koha!
15:45 ccordova Hi , I 'm trying to set coincidentally bibliographic records to avoid duplicate records.
15:45 cbrannon joined #koha
15:45 ccordova in management of Koha > Record matching rules . It is only for import of bibliographic records ?.
15:47 ccordova If Setup coincidentally where the record for cataloging module ?
15:47 alex_a_ joined #koha
15:49 cait ccordova: you can also set up rules for authoritiy import
15:50 ccordova Configure need to check before saving the ISBN registration and so avoid having duplicate records
15:54 oleonard Joubu: When using git-bz to apply patches for Bug 13618, "fatal: sha1 information is lacking or useless (koha-tmpl/opac-tmpl/bootstrap/en/module​s/"
15:54 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=13618 major, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Prevent XSS in the Staff Client and the OPAC
15:56 Joubu oleonard: use the remote branch please
15:56 Joubu the patches are not up-to-date
15:56 oleonard Oh sorry I didn't see that
15:57 Joubu no worries :)
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16:04 reiveune bye
16:04 reiveune left #koha
16:05 oleonard Joubu: Is there any particular test plan besides "Poke every page which was changed" ? Or are there certain things which need to be tested?
16:06 Joubu oleonard: The patches have already been tested deeply (I suppose they have), so I'd say the page testers could have forgotten :)
16:06 Joubu The weird pages you can only access after 3 clicks
16:07 Joubu oleonard: Bernado caught issues when editing records (because of html/js generated from pl/pm)
16:07 Joubu it could be an issue for html/js retrieved from the DB
16:08 Joubu if you think about some specific fields...
16:08 oleonard Is there a Debian package for Template::Stash::AutoEscaping?
16:08 Joubu I don't think so
16:09 oleonard Is that a problem?
16:09 Joubu but it's the only decent one I have found so far
16:09 Joubu iirc I have managed to generated it easily
16:17 nengard_phone qa folks, where does[…]_bug.cgi?id=14610 stand in your queues for qa? getting asked by the library that sponsored it
16:17 huginn` Bug 14610: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Signed Off , Add ability to place article requests in Koha
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16:32 Joubu Whaou, crazy. For any pages opened from the staff interface, the GetMemberDetails is called, which call GetMemberAccountRecords which the items infos for all accountlines entries
16:32 Joubu to finally... tadam... display the title + surname + firstname of the patron
16:33 Joubu exists since 2006
16:34 Joubu some useless cpu cycles have been lost there
16:35 oleonard Joubu: I'm still confused about how to help with Bug 13618. What should I be testing?
16:35 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=13618 major, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Prevent XSS in the Staff Client and the OPAC
16:38 Joubu oleonard: The goal is to find regression about variable escaping
16:38 Joubu for instance, if html comes from the DB, the variable should not be escaped in the template ([% var.raw %])
16:39 Joubu if the .raw is not specified, the var will be escaped and the html won't be display correctly
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16:55 cbrannon KohaNA meeting starting in 5 minutes (11am Central).  If you would like to voice your opinion, contribute, or simply want to listen in, you can join this meeting by visiting <>. This meeting will take the form of a multi-party video-chat, however, you do not need to have a webcam to participate.
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17:47 gaetan_B bye
18:01 Joubu bye
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18:29 oleonard Bye #koha
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19:40 wnickc anyone recall a bug about erros in reports
19:40 wnickc ?
19:55 wnickc where it was giving software errors instead of useful ones
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20:11 wizzyrea hi
20:12 wizzyrea wnickc: what version?
20:12 wahanui it has been said that version is always noted in a comment on top
20:12 wizzyrea forget what version
20:12 wahanui version is always noted in a comment on top
20:12 wizzyrea forget version
20:12 wahanui wizzyrea: I forgot version
20:12 wizzyrea version is always noted in a comment at the top of the view source in the OPAC
20:13 wnickc I think 3.18.9
20:14 wnickc or 10
20:14 wnickc wizzyrea
20:14 wahanui wizzyrea is so dumb at rewrite rules.
20:14 wizzyrea hehe it's true.
20:15 wizzyrea right, and what kind of report are you trying to run that gives you an error
20:15 wizzyrea (for example
20:15 wizzyrea )
20:15 wnickc it's when you have a syntax error in report (unrecognized column name or something) and you get a software error instead of a nice error
20:15 wnickc I swear I saw this bug
20:16 wnickc and now cannot locate
20:16 wizzyrea well I'll try a couple of things, make a bug if it pops up again and I'll have a nosey
20:17 wnickc okey doke
20:17 wnickc I thought it was resolved too
20:17 wizzyrea wnickc: if you can be specific about the version that would be helpful
20:18 wizzyrea bc if it's a regression I can find it and burn it with acid.
20:18 wnickc one sec
20:18 wizzyrea[…]1qgwwkpo5_250.gif
20:19 wnickc present in 3.18.09
20:20 wnickc Software error:
20:20 wnickc Can't use an undefined value as an ARRAY reference at /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-​bin/reports/ line 935.
20:20 wnickc For help, please send mail to the webmaster (, giving this error message and the time and date of the error.
20:20 wnickc if you enter an unknown column name
20:20 wizzyrea yay, that's helpful. thanks
20:23 * wizzyrea makes a note to check master for the strange looking layout on the "saved reports" page
20:24 wnickc whre the filter is all squished over stuff
20:24 wnickc you know technically speaking
20:24 wnickc it's there
20:24 wizzyrea yep, that one :)
20:24 wizzyrea right,
20:24 wizzyrea so
20:24 wizzyrea that happens all the way back to 3.18.0
20:29 wnickc the display or the software error?
20:29 wizzyrea the software error
20:29 wizzyrea I didn't look at the display ^.^
20:30 wizzyrea (i'm not going to go back into 3.16, sorry.)
20:30 wnickc seems reasonable
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20:31 wizzyrea also yes, it's still smooshy on 3.23
20:31 wizzyrea keke.
20:31 wizzyrea omg, the report create interface has steps now
20:32 wizzyrea I don't think I'm keen...
20:32 wizzyrea oh wait
20:32 wizzyrea no, that's me.
20:32 wizzyrea I clicked the wrong button
20:32 wizzyrea ^.^
20:32 wizzyrea so, that works in 3.23, the fancy error messages
20:32 wnickc alirght, present through 3.18.x but fixed in 3.20.x
20:32 wizzyrea I thought that came in on 3.2
20:33 wizzyrea 3.20*
20:33 wizzyrea it'd be a "feature" so probably not backported, yeah
20:33 wizzyrea though that one's a little fuzzy
20:34 wizzyrea select thingie from items < I make myself laugh
20:37 wnickc that's better than shoes
20:37 wnickc thats whhat I select
20:37 wizzyrea hehe
20:37 wizzyrea well there might be thingies in Koha, there definitely won't be shoes.
20:38 wnickc no shoe libraries?  realia offers many crazy possibilities
20:38 wnickc back in a bit
20:38 wizzyrea :)
20:42 barton I'm going to camp on to wnickc's questoin a bit...
20:47 barton my question is a bit meta -- is there a table somewhere that has a list of the bug statuses in bugzilla, and when the statuses would change? I seem to get caught trying to find old stuff after major releases, and I'm never sure what process is involved that triggers status changes.
20:47 barton is there a QA manual or something I could refer to?
20:47 barton or RM manual, I guess.
20:48 wizzyrea humans do that
20:48 wizzyrea development workflow
20:48 wizzyrea hm.
20:49 wizzyrea development workflow is <reply>[…]elopment_workflow
20:49 wizzyrea barton ^
20:50 * wizzyrea isn't certain what info you're looking for
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20:51 barton Ah, so I guess part of my question is step 9: The bug is marked resolved/fixed by the 'bug closer'. -- do we have a designated bug closer?
20:51 wizzyrea no.
20:52 wizzyrea sometimes the rm does it
20:52 wizzyrea personally I don't like closing them
20:52 wizzyrea because the default search leaves them out
20:52 barton Ah, I see under Roles 'Bug closer: the person who checked that the bug is now fixed. Can be the reporter, it's preferred that the patch writer is not the closer.'
20:53 wizzyrea I'd rather not have to do an advanced search to find closed ones.
20:53 wizzyrea at least not ones that are "resolved fixed"
20:53 wizzyrea but I am supremely lazy :)
20:55 barton Ok ... well. looks like i knew more of the process that I thought I did.
20:55 Francesca joined #koha
20:55 wizzyrea heh
20:55 wizzyrea it's not that compicated. nengard has a flow chart on your website for it.
21:01 pastebot "geek_cl" at pasted "why ?" (3 lines) at
21:03 barton Yeah ... I've seen that... I wasn't clear on the resolved/fixed status....  and bugzilla also has RESOLVED, VERIFIED, CLOSED, BLOCKED, Pushed by Module Maintainer and Pushed for QA, which aren't documented in the Development Workflow.
21:03 wizzyrea those are bz default statuses.
21:04 wizzyrea MM was an idea we had, it never really flew
21:04 wizzyrea or hasn't yet
21:04 wizzyrea pushed for qa goes with that.
21:04 barton Ah... welll[…]s.html#bug_status
21:04 wizzyrea verified means "yes I have replicated this"
21:04 wizzyrea "the bug exists"
21:05 wizzyrea blocked means another bug stands in it's way
21:05 wizzyrea yeah, that's the internal bz documentation
21:06 barton yeah, I know about the MM... I have a feeling that the next RM may be trying that again ;-)
21:06 wizzyrea heh
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21:22 misilot when offline circulation files are imported, can checkout notices be disabled for anything that had already been checked in (at the time the files were imported)? not sure if I am missing something somewhere
21:28 wizzyrea misilot: I haven't tested that, but I suspect that it uses the same routines to do the checkout
21:28 wizzyrea it being the circ import
21:28 wizzyrea and it seems likely to me that there's no condition there to do the checkouts any differently than a standard one
21:29 wizzyrea (mind you, I haven't checked and I can't prioritise that right now)
21:29 wizzyrea there would be ways around that
21:29 wizzyrea namely, retroactively setting all notices off by turning it off for the category, updating all of the borrowers using the script, doing the import, then reversing your change and doing another batch update
21:29 Xellos joined #koha
21:29 wizzyrea but that seems like a daft amount of work
21:35 Xellos why the heck is the kohacon held in nigeria?
21:36 wizzyrea why wouldn't it be?
21:36 Xellos lol, seems like that's the last place i would want to be
21:36 wizzyrea that's on you, not them.
21:36 Xellos haha
21:37 wizzyrea there are koha users there, they put in a bid, and they got the most votes.
21:37 wizzyrea so that's where it was. This year it's in greece but we don't have updated info for that conf yet.
21:37 Xellos yeah the webpage hasn't been updated yet
21:37 wizzyrea I know, I run it. :)
21:38 Xellos oh nice
21:39 Xellos just noticed your a monderator lol
21:39 Xellos *moderator
21:40 misilot wizzyrea: thanks ya it sends email with checkouts that had been checked in. We get users that "complain" and are like, I returned it already. Figured I would ask. Thank you again!
21:40 wizzyrea wait are you sending checkin messages?
21:41 wizzyrea or checkout?
21:41 wahanui checkout is probably probably better in this case.
21:41 wizzyrea forget checkout
21:41 wahanui wizzyrea: I forgot checkout
21:41 misilot checkin message
21:41 wizzyrea aha
21:41 wizzyrea yeah
21:41 misilot i mean checkout* sorry
21:41 wizzyrea lol.
21:41 wizzyrea :)
21:41 misilot sorry, can't read/type apparently
21:41 wizzyrea so when you check it in, it sends a checkout message?
21:41 wizzyrea ^ this seems more wrong
21:41 misilot when we process a KOC file, that has both a checkin and checkout of a book. It sends a checkout message
21:42 wizzyrea but doesn't send a check-in as well?
21:42 wizzyrea or do you not enable that
21:42 misilot we don't send checkin
21:42 wizzyrea aha
21:42 wizzyrea see a way around that complaining problem
21:42 wizzyrea would be to enable the check-in message
21:42 wizzyrea so people are notified when things are checked in
21:42 wizzyrea yeah they'd get two, but they'd not have a reason to complain
21:42 misilot other then getting two emails :P
21:42 wizzyrea yeah, idk what's worse ^.^
21:43 misilot it is something to discuss I guess with administration as an idea if the complaining gets to be too much
21:43 wizzyrea *nod* patron confidence is important
21:43 wizzyrea for me, yeah I'd feel weird if a book I'd checked out a week ago and returned suddenly sent me a notice
21:43 wizzyrea but if I got a checkout, immediately followed by a checkin, that might seem less weird.
21:43 Xellos just put a filter on the outgoing mail server
21:44 misilot Xellos: don't control the mail server
21:44 Xellos sry, I'm an IT person.  I generally control the mail services
21:45 misilot Xellos: IT person as well, though for the library systems. We let Campus IT manage the mail servers and other core systems
21:45 Xellos ah ic
21:47 wizzyrea checkin/checkout notices are especially important to borrowers if a mistake could incur an annoying fine or fee.
21:47 wizzyrea because they are almost certainly going to call you up and ask what's up if they're going to get a fine if the library made a mistake
21:47 wizzyrea and they won't let you forget it.
21:47 wizzyrea if you do.
21:48 misilot amazingly they don't seem to call us when we charge them $1000
21:48 Xellos ha
21:48 cait joined #koha
21:48 wizzyrea they probably know they deserve it >.>
21:48 misilot very true
21:48 wahanui I know. That's why I said it.
21:48 wizzyrea
21:49 Xellos great job all powerful admin
21:49 wizzyrea you reminded me :)
21:50 Xellos it looks a lot better
21:56 kidclamp wizzyrea, I found it![…]_bug.cgi?id=13992
21:56 huginn` Bug 13992: normal, P5 - low, ---, veron, CLOSED FIXED, Software error in reports if field or table does not exist
21:56 wizzyrea \o/
21:56 wizzyrea Doesn't apply on 3.18.x please rebase if you think it is needed
21:56 wizzyrea :)
21:57 wizzyrea excellent bug sleuthing
21:57 wizzyrea it might be a simple rebase, you just never know.
21:57 wizzyrea I can't prioritise it though >.<
21:57 kidclamp that's barton's problem :-)
21:58 kidclamp his ticket :-D
21:58 magnuse joined #koha
21:58 barton kidclamp: yes, prioritization is a huge problem for me. ;-)
21:58 wizzyrea ah, if you want it, you should open it up again
21:59 wizzyrea "hi, I want this for 3.18 someone helllllp"
21:59 wizzyrea you can add me as a cc as well
21:59 wizzyrea so I see it
22:00 wizzyrea irc regulars?
22:00 wahanui hmmm... irc regulars is at
22:02 Xellos yup, you are officially a regular
22:03 barton iirc, IRC_Regulars still shows Ian Walls as part of Bywater Solutions... and there are a number of regulars who are missing.
22:04 barton *hint* *hint* ... add yourself to if you haven't done so already :-)
22:04 Xellos yeah, it's a frekin' wiki
22:04 * kidclamp still testing this nick, will remain wnickc in the list for the moment
22:05 Xellos also log files for IRC here
22:06 Xellos and it looks like wizzyrea went to sleep at 3:30-4:00 AM this morning lol
22:06 barton Oh, by the way, searching for bug numbers in the IRC log is an awesome way to find information.
22:08 Xellos since we're posting links  this is my electric car test ride
22:09 Xellos kinda old now, will do another video sometime soon
22:16 wizzyrea that kind of depends on where you are :)
22:20 * wizzyrea has been annoying #koha since 2008
22:20 wizzyrea that should be my byline.
22:20 wizzyrea Wizzyrea: annoying #koha since 2008 (tm)
22:22 wizzyrea ah I hadn't thought about sekjal in ages
22:22 wizzyrea wonder how he's doing
22:24 Xellos any way to contact him?
22:25 wizzyrea it's 2015, I sure hope so. :)
22:25 Xellos
22:25 Xellos i think this is him prob
22:26 wizzyrea magic global network that connects all people? (check)
22:26 wizzyrea enough identifying information to find one person out of all of them? (check)
22:26 barton it surrounds us, it penetrates us, it binds the universe together...
22:27 francesca joined #koha
22:27 Xellos It's the closest thing to magic i've found
22:27 Xellos that and the magical ponies in my closet
22:28 Xellos it's my magical escape
22:41 dac I wonder what the protocol is for taking other people off the wiki
22:41 dac Oh, that's not me
22:42 dcook I was actually thinking this morning about how one might teach a child about Wikipedia and accessing information critically on the Internet...
22:42 * francesca waves at dcook
22:42 dcook hey francesca
22:42 wahanui a defender of bots rights till the end of time
22:42 dcook You should put yourself on the wiki too :p
22:42 francesca why should I put myself on the wiki?
22:42 dcook You're a regular!
22:42 pianohacker hey francesca: out of curiosity, what are your feelings on the Hanon piano exercises (if you're familiar with them)?
22:42 francesca wahanui: forget me
22:42 wahanui francesca, I didn't have anything matching me
22:43 francesca pianohacker: not sure not familiar with them
22:43 francesca wahanui forget francesca
22:43 wahanui francesca: I forgot francesca
22:43 dcook pianohacker: They're what's wrong with the world today!
22:43 * dcook hasn't done anything piano related in over 20 years
22:45 pianohacker heh, thanks y'all
22:45 pianohacker bbl
22:48 dcook Hmm to read listserv or not to read listserv... that is the question..
22:48 wizzyrea ah yeah there's nothing really bad today. :)
22:48 wizzyrea just skip over that one guy's messages and you'll be rage-free
22:48 dcook I must've missed the bad stuff then as I don't see it in my inbox
22:48 dcook Sometimes I do skip over emails O_O
22:48 * wizzyrea too
22:48 * dcook likes being rage-free
22:48 * francesca as well
22:49 dcook Oh, I met up with cjh last night
22:49 dcook Now wizzyrea is the only Catalyst/former Catalyst person I need to meet!
22:49 wizzyrea oh did you hook up with cjh?
22:49 wizzyrea \o/
22:49 wizzyrea lol, reading fail.
22:50 wizzyrea :)
22:50 * wizzyrea hopes he's brilliantly happy
22:50 dcook He seemed in a good mood :)
22:50 dcook Actually, he's one of the few people I've encountered in Sydney who laughed while getting soaked in a storm ;)
22:50 wizzyrea he's a wellingtonian. it's reflex.
22:50 dcook haha
22:50 dcook It was good. Lots of Sydneysiders seem to think they'll melt in the rain
22:51 wizzyrea you have to laugh in the rain, otherwise you'd be grumpy all the time.
22:51 francesca hahaha
22:51 francesca seriosuly?
22:51 wizzyrea this doesn't surprise me, tbh.
22:51 wizzyrea spoiled by good weather, they are.
22:51 francesca indeed
22:51 dcook @wunder syd
22:51 huginn` dcook: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 21.0°C (9:30 AM AEDT on December 10, 2015). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: 18.0°C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Steady).
22:51 francesca though we havent had a bad week as far as wellington standards go
22:51 wizzyrea @wunder nzwn
22:51 huginn` wizzyrea: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 18.0°C (11:30 AM NZDT on December 10, 2015). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 59%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Steady).
22:51 wizzyrea no, it's been ok this week :)
22:51 chrisvella joined #koha
22:51 wizzyrea well, awesome really. little chilly yesterday
22:52 wizzyrea gfdi stop being so entertaining I have patches to push!
22:52 francesca nice enough that the cats dont come in till about 10pm at night
22:52 dcook hehe
22:52 dcook Yeah, I need to minimize this window
22:57 jamesb joined #koha
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23:17 dcook I never thought about people saying "Zee 39.50" instead of "Zed 39.50". I guess it's good that I went from Canada to Australia :p
23:18 wizzyrea man I catch myself on that one all the time.
23:18 wizzyrea but zed sounds nicer, tbh
23:20 dcook zed totally sounds nicer
23:20 dcook Man... looking at that MarcEdit post
23:21 dcook I tried to integrate MarcEdit and Koha ages ago and it didn't work
23:21 dcook Trying it again now and MarcEdit is just freaking out at me
23:21 dcook Maybe I'm just doing it wrong but errors coming out of everywhere..
23:22 rocio left #koha
23:22 dcook Silent errors now..
23:23 JoshB left #koha
23:23 dcook Error Message: Undefined authorization error
23:23 dcook Errr
23:24 dcook Ah, there we go
23:24 dcook It was a URL error..
23:25 dcook Whatever..
23:25 wahanui and ever, amen.
23:26 dcook Yikes this default MARC record is baaad
23:28 dcook Was able to create a record but not update it..
23:30 dcook Oh my... and I just got MarcEdit to crash..
23:32 janPasi__ joined #koha
23:38 dcook So this is the C# API for MarcEdit-Koha integration...[…]pi/Bib_Actions.cs
23:39 dcook But it doesn't actually say which field/subfield it's using to get the ID...
23:39 dcook Although this is probably my first time reading C# so..
23:41 dcook Oh maybe there is something in the forms..
23:41 dcook Also never worked with desktop GUIs..
23:41 dcook[…]ence_app/Form1.cs
23:41 dcook 999$d?
23:42 dcook Looks like something hard-coded to ID 1...
23:42 dcook I assume that's just an example app..
23:44 dcook Ah perhaps I'm screwing up the MarcEdit format..
23:44 dcook Indeed... that was it
23:53 papa joined #koha
23:56 dcook Huh... apparently you can download YAZ for Windows
23:56 dcook That's neat
23:59 dcook Let's see if I can remember how to read iptables..

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