IRC log for #koha, 2015-11-30

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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01:51 wizzyrea soooo
01:53 wizzyrea are we assuming that ttf-dejavu is installed on debian systems?
01:58 Francesca @wunder wlg
01:58 huginn Francesca: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 17.0°C (2:30 PM NZDT on November 30, 2015). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 77%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 30.33 in 1027 hPa (Steady).
02:05 ibeardslee the font or the package?
02:06 wizzyrea the package
02:06 wahanui hmmm... the package is 'perldoc'
02:06 ibeardslee .. fonts-dejavu-core is installed on a couple of our internal debian servers
02:07 ibeardslee but not ttf-dejavu
02:07 wizzyrea the reason I'm asking
02:07 ibeardslee so can't assume that
02:08 wizzyrea is that when you go to build packages for Koha, pbuilder doesn't have it
02:08 wizzyrea and it makes Koha tests fail
02:08 wizzyrea you have to install it in pbuilder
02:08 wizzyrea but if we made it a dependency, we wouldn't have that particular problem anymore
02:09 wizzyrea that may be a naive assessment.
02:09 ibeardslee why is a particular font required?
02:09 wizzyrea for generating PDF's
02:09 wizzyrea with encoded characters
02:09 wizzyrea i18n
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05:31 dcook Hmm surely eythian must be up now
05:31 dcook Thinking about how he advised me ages ago to avoid premature optimization
05:32 dcook I recently designed a script which comprehensively analyzes data, but... it was taking a really long time
05:32 dcook Spent some time doing profiling the code, analyzing the queries, and found an optimization in the end which speeds it up 4-10x.
05:32 dcook Probably saved way more time by optimizing it now rather than trying to optimize it then
06:50 eythian wizzyrea: making it a dependency would be an appropriate solution
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07:22 fridolin hie there
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07:35 reiveune hello
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08:11 * magnuse waves
08:12 magnuse @wunder boo
08:12 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 3.0°C (8:50 AM CET on November 30, 2015). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Windchill: -2.0°C. Pressure: 28.82 in 976 hPa (Steady).
08:21 Joubu hi #koha
08:23 magnuse bonojur Joubu
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08:23 magnuse bono? sorry about that
08:24 Joubu Bonjour magnuse :)
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08:25 gaetan_B hello
08:25 wahanui what's up, gaetan_B
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10:10 petter Any news about debian packages for 3.22 ?
10:10 petter
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10:40 drojf hi #koha
10:43 drojf @later tell wizzyrea it seems like pbuilder does not like the default distribution set by build-git-snapshot (squeeze-dev) either. unstable set via parameter should work. maybe relevant for you too
10:43 huginn drojf: The operation succeeded.
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12:39 tcohen morning
12:40 tcohen drojf: the problem is XML retrieval/processing from Zebra
12:41 drojf hi tcohen
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12:45 drojf tcohen: bug 15263 appears to speed up opac search on the raspi by 1/5. from ~30 to ~24 seconds for 1000 results
12:45 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=15263 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mirko, NEW , XSLT display fetches sysprefs for every result processed
12:46 drojf tcohen: what do you tink is the problem exactly?
12:46 drojf regarding zebra
12:47 drojf *think
12:48 drojf there is probably more redundant stuff in there, iam just starting
12:51 tcohen drojf: my plan with[…]ee/xslt_filtering was to avoid useless filtering of the retrieved records
12:52 tcohen so, put search results in Koha::MetadataRecord object
12:52 tcohen and pass them through a pipe of Koha::Filter-s using the Koha::RecordProcessor thing
12:53 tcohen that's from a perspective in which we re-organize the code
12:53 tcohen and start abstracting things a bit for a future multi-metadata schema support
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12:54 tcohen regarding zebra, in 3.16 we made DOM setups exchange XML between Perl and Zebra
12:54 tcohen both for indexing (which is OK)
12:54 tcohen and for retrieval (which is OK, but seems really under performant in the current state of the way we do things)
12:55 tcohen so my opinion regarding the syspref retrieval for each record is that we should optimize that in a short term
12:55 tcohen but move to Koha::Fitler ofr the mid/long-term
12:55 tcohen if you think about it, we are serializing/deserializing things more than 3 times
12:56 tcohen and this might get worse with JSON data from ES
12:56 tcohen get JSON data => have filters for JSON data => period
12:56 drojf that sounds very good to me
12:56 tcohen get MARC(XML) data => have filters for MARC(XML) data => period
12:57 tcohen also, with the current indexer, we shouldn't re-calculate loan status, etc for rendering
12:57 tcohen that information is already in zebra
12:57 tcohen or it should
12:58 tcohen it is cheaper to prepare the data so zebra has it, than calculate it on rendering
12:58 tcohen because de indexing process is asynchronous
12:58 tcohen and is queued, etc
13:02 drojf let's do it now! :D
13:02 magnuse just do it
13:02 tcohen i can start next week
13:02 tcohen already have some stuff i promised for this week
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13:04 drojf tcohen: maybe tcohen1 can help
13:07 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
13:07 huginn drojf: The current temperature in Berlin Tegel, Germany is 7.0°C (1:50 PM CET on November 30, 2015). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Windchill: 3.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady).
13:15 tcohen heh
13:16 magnuse @wunder boo
13:16 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 2.0°C (1:50 PM CET on November 30, 2015). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Windchill: -2.0°C. Pressure: 28.88 in 978 hPa (Steady).
13:17 cait i'd day - go for it too :)
13:19 cait also drojf++ for investigating performance issues :)
13:19 magnuse yeah, improvements around search and zebra and all that jazz should be very welcome
13:19 magnuse drojf++
13:20 tcohen gmcharlt_: morning
13:26 drojf with 15263 and reverting 11842 i get < 20 seconds for 1000 results
13:27 cait what's the bad balue?
13:27 cait value
13:27 drojf i would have expected both performance gains cancelling each other out. but i won't complain if its better
13:27 drojf 30+ is the bad one
13:28 drojf so i am 1/3 faster now than regular 3.22. which is still probably only half as fast as 3.16 with plack
13:29 drojf no i think that is not true. but ut was faster on 3.16 still
13:29 drojf *it
13:30 drojf but i think its enough for this investigation run. time to have a little weekend. oh what it's monday already? XD
13:32 drojf 3.16.15 with plack 10 seconds for 1000 hits. so yes, still twice as fast compared to 3.22 with tweaks
13:40 cait you got way more patience with stuff like that than me :)
13:42 tcohen drojf: is 3.16 using DOM?
13:42 tcohen go try GRS-1 ;-)
13:42 drojf yes its using dom
13:43 * tcohen bets GRS-1 will do 2.3 secs
13:43 drojf heh i will try that later :D
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13:44 tcohen drojf: the conclusion won't be to ditch DOM, but "have usmarc be the exchange format"
13:44 * andreashm has been reading back on the discussion on search speed, metadata and filters. interesting stuff!
13:45 andreashm any idea how this would tie in with the proposed added table for metadata as suggested on bug 10662/David's e-mail to the Devel list? Good or bad?
13:45 drojf oh i just saw that the plack settings were reset. so maybe its a little faster actually
13:45 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10662 new feature, P3, ---, dcook, In Discussion , Build OAI-PMH Harvesting Client
13:47 tcohen andreashm: I don't like it
13:48 tcohen I mean the big table with metadata fields
13:48 andreashm why is that?
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13:52 andreashm tcohen: any of the disadvantages David mentioned, or some other reason?
13:52 tcohen i just read his discussion about the metadata table
13:52 * cait sitll has to
13:53 andreashm this table would be kind of small I think. but it would need to be for everything in the database, more or less.
13:53 tcohen I actually read part of it while driving (semaphore)
13:53 andreashm tcohen: wow. that sounds a bit scary! =)
13:53 andreashm cait: you should go read! interesting stuff!
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13:54 tcohen andreashm: it was a 2 minutes readlas encargo asi
13:54 cait andreashm: it loooked too long for right now :)
13:55 andreashm cait: bah! =)
13:56 andreashm tcohen: huh? not sure what that means...
13:57 tcohen sorry, wrong window
13:57 tcohen so a MARC record could be split into, say 120 rows on a table?
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13:57 andreashm cait: in short, an added table to store some metadata identifiers. to pro would be that it would allow fast matching without the need of Zebra/ES, source of the record can be displayed there etc. the con is that it's an added extra table.
13:58 cait thx for the summary :)
13:58 cait i plan to read - jus ta bit later
13:59 tcohen andreashm: I'd agree with a metadata_records table, storing the serialized data, and, well, all the fields Koha::MetadataRecord has
14:01 andreashm tcohen: I think that sounds like a great idea too.
14:01 andreashm just noted that David in his e-mail asked if the whole record should be broken down into such a structure, but that seems excessive to me.
14:02 cait hm i think identifiers would be enouhg
14:02 cait 0xx fields
14:03 cait maybe configurable
14:03 cait ... but i sitll need to read ... and take care of the luandry, brb
14:06 tcohen andreashm: I agree maybe having a way to define special fields to have available... but I don't like the argument "if zebra is not available I would like to..."
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14:27 andreashm tcohen: the problem with using Zebra, or ES for that matter, for matching is that it is to slow. Take OAI for instance, that updates every 2-3 seconds. That would be problematic if not having special fields available in a separate table.
14:28 tcohen maybe the solution is to make indexing asynchronously work differently
14:28 tcohen instead of polling every x second
14:29 tcohen some data (loan status) could be retrieved asynchronously through an AJAX call instead of locking the UI
14:29 tcohen so, maybe we can be more creative isntead of duplicating work
14:29 tcohen that's all I'm saying
14:32 tcohen we are suffering from performance issues in one hand, and proposing multiple more joins on the other :-D
14:33 andreashm tcohen: you might be right. using an extra table is the old-school way of doing it (but one we know works). an ajax call might be suitable for loan status etc.., but wouldn't it be the same problem for matching? I.e. that new updates fast after the other might end up racing the Ajax call (or index using Zebra/ES). What we're thinking is matching against 001, possible 035 (others probably want other fields)
14:33 andreashm tcohen: yeah. it's never easy! =)
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14:37 drojf did you know its hard to debug stuff if you work in one instance but refresh a different on in your browser?
14:37 drojf *one
14:40 liw drojf, that's a variant of the classic programmer's snafu of editing and running differnet instances of a program (which I do regularly enough that you should time your backup runs based on it)
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14:43 drojf heh
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14:54 gmcharlt_ howdy folks
14:54 tcohen hi gmcharlt_ !
14:55 gmcharlt_ back from the US holidays, and wanted to give an update on the 3.22 packages -- namely, that I'm planning to release them by Thursday
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14:55 gmcharlt_ apologies for the delay, but I want to make sure I get it right before I tell folks to go at them
14:56 drojf hi gmcharlt
14:56 drojf no worries. and congratulations to your new community job ;)
14:57 * cait waves at gmcharlt
15:00 cait maybe a quick mail to the mailing list? I think some people are waiting and will be happy to have a date
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15:05 bag morning
15:05 tcohen gmcharlt++ # back from holidays and ready to work for the community
15:05 tcohen bag: 您好
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15:06 bag :)
15:07 bag @weather portland or
15:07 huginn bag: The current temperature in Portland - West Hills, Portland, Oregon is -2.7°C (7:07 AM PST on November 30, 2015). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: -6.0°C. Windchill: -5.0°C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Rising).
15:09 tcohen @weather cordoba, argentina
15:09 huginn tcohen: The current temperature in Bo Altos de San Martin - NW, Cordoba city, Cordoba City, Argentina is 28.0°C (12:04 PM ART on November 30, 2015). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 31%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Falling).
15:10 bag oh 28 let’s trade tcohen
15:11 liw @weather espoo, finland
15:11 huginn liw: The current temperature in Viherlaakso, Espoo, Finland is 4.9°C (5:08 PM EET on November 30, 2015). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 99%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Windchill: 5.0°C. Pressure: 28.88 in 978 hPa (Steady).
15:11 liw @weather torrevieja, spain
15:11 huginn liw: The current temperature in Acequion, Torrevieja, Spain is 16.7°C (4:11 PM CET on November 30, 2015). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 30.51 in 1033 hPa (Falling).
15:12 * cait waves at bag
15:12 bag :)
15:13 andreashm @weather stockholm, sweden
15:13 huginn andreashm: The current temperature in Stockholm Bromma, Sweden is 2.0°C (3:50 PM CET on November 30, 2015). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: -1.0°C. Windchill: -3.0°C. Pressure: 29.06 in 984 hPa (Steady).
15:17 andreashm mmm fun fun
15:19 cait @wunder Konstanz
15:19 huginn cait: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 10.0°C (4:00 PM CET on November 30, 2015). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 61%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Pressure: 30.32 in 1027 hPa (Falling).
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15:42 druthb @wunder 77447
15:42 huginn druthb: The current temperature in Blueberry Farm, Hockley, Texas is 10.7°C (9:42 AM CST on November 30, 2015). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 95%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.05 in 1018 hPa (Rising).
15:43 Dyrcona @wunder 01845
15:43 huginn Dyrcona: The current temperature in Shawsheen Area, Andover, Massachusetts is 0.5°C (10:35 AM EST on November 30, 2015). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: -5.0°C. Windchill: 1.0°C. Pressure: 30.56 in 1035 hPa (Falling).
15:43 druthb brr
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16:11 reiveune bye
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16:17 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: DBRev 2016 Year of the Monkey <[…]a090aa0ce7d272115>
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16:37 barton morning #koha!
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16:46 barton hey, I'm trying to track down an issue with search failing on very large bib records... we're using DOM, and I've verified that we're using the -x option during re-indexing, so that doesn't seem to be the problem. I suspect that I'm seeing something like what Ian Walls reported here:[…]ug.cgi?id=2453#c4
16:46 huginn Bug 2453: critical, P3, ---, gmcharlt, CLOSED FIXED, (very) large biblio/item handling
16:47 cait barton: which version?
16:47 wahanui which version is recommended?
16:48 barton 3.18.x ... not sure which release.
16:48 barton (will look)
16:48 cait there was another bug
16:48 cait tcohen w
16:48 cait micht now
16:48 cait might know - but the one you are lookin git is ancient - probably not the one
16:49 barton Yeah, pianohacker thought there might be somethning recent.
16:49 cait i can try to find it in a bit
16:49 tcohen bug 11096
16:49 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11096 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, CLOSED FIXED, Koha cannot retrieve big records from Zebra
16:49 barton cait: yeah that one mostly addresses GRS-1 / MARC.
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16:50 cait well not really grs-1
16:50 cait grs-1 is not so much the problem, but usmarc vs xml
16:51 cait i think
16:56 barton cait:  yeah, looks like bug 11096 is still addressing the 99 999 byte hard limit with USMARC. This is different. There seems to be a soft limit on the size of MARCXML records ... searches start failing up around 1000 attached items... that's specifically why I mentioned Ian Walls' comment -- I think that he touched on something that never got addressed: "Further research has shown that my issue is not with ISO 2709, but the implicit file siz
16:56 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11096 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, CLOSED FIXED, Koha cannot retrieve big records from Zebra
16:57 cait i was thinking about 11096
16:57 cait can you still export those records as usmarc?
16:58 barton oh, no they're way too big to export as usmarc.
16:58 tcohen MARC::Record doesn't care about big records
16:58 cait my bet would be some failing conversion somewhere
16:59 tcohen i recall the problem was that the DOM indexing/retrieval code had trouble with big records
16:59 tcohen ^^^ that would mean exporting big records from Koha shouldn't be a problem
17:00 barton tcohen: was there a bug for that?
17:00 tcohen i don't think so, we found that situation during kohacon13, and 11096 solution had to do with that
17:03 tcohen barton: if I remember correctly, the problem we found was: DOM + usmarc format for exchanging => break
17:03 tcohen so, GRS-1 + usmarc => GOOD
17:03 barton Right... bug 11096 was pushed to master in 3.16; this is occurring on either 3.18 or 3.20. I don't think that we're running into the 99 999 byte marc limit. Everything is MARCXML. We have plenty of records larger than 99 999 bytes which we can search correctly... but once they get up around 1MB, we start having issues.
17:03 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11096 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, CLOSED FIXED, Koha cannot retrieve big records from Zebra
17:11 drojf i'm trying to draw a picture of where the marc data goes after retrieval und how often it gets converted into what. i don't think that is even possible
17:12 drojf i won't be the first person to get lost in and die in there. i have seen skeletons in there. and i won't be the last one either.
17:16 cait @later tell Joubu - could we add checks for readding C4::Dates magic to the QA script for a while?
17:16 huginn cait: The operation succeeded.
17:19 pianohacker hmm. Should bug 8753 be at "Signed off" instead of "Needs signoff" from mveron's signoffs, or am I reading that wrong
17:19 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8753 enhancement, P1 - high, ---, charles.farmer, Needs Signoff , Add forgot password link to OPAC
17:24 cait hm i think they rebaed and reset
17:24 cait pianohacker: have you taken a look at the hisotry?
17:25 pianohacker cait: yar. Do we drop to Needs signoff after a rebase?
17:25 cait it usually depends on the nature of the rebase
17:26 cait if it's a complicated one, sometimes it can be better to ask for another
17:26 cait but we usually don't remove the lines i think
17:26 cait does that make sense?
17:26 pianohacker cait: yar, gracias
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19:30 tcohen bye
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21:12 rangi morning
21:15 cait morning rangi
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21:27 nengard hi all - does this patch[…]_bug.cgi?id=10963 change the way you work with frameworks - like do I need to update the manual at all?
21:27 huginn Bug 10963: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, bgkriegel, Pushed to Master , Simplified creation of MARC21 sample frameworks
21:28 cait nengard: nope
21:28 nengard cool
21:28 cait nengard: it only simplifies the sql files for the web installer
21:28 nengard crossing that one off :)
21:28 cait so they are easier to translate and update
21:29 cait but nothing the user can see
21:55 cait wizzyrea++ just because :)
21:55 dac ^
21:55 wizzyrea wot
21:55 pianohacker wizzyrea++
21:55 dcook wizzyrea++
21:56 wizzyrea STOPIT
21:56 wizzyrea lol what did I do
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22:04 dcook hehe
22:06 bag hello
22:06 wahanui hi, bag
22:07 cait1 hi bag :)
22:07 cait1 hi dcook :)
22:07 bag heya cait1
22:07 bag wizzyrea++
22:09 cait1 ah the disconnect
22:09 * cait1 nick cait
22:09 bag phew I was a bit worried about that cait1 character - glad cait is back
22:09 bag cait++
22:10 cait heh
22:10 cait my evil clone ;)
22:10 dcook hey cait and cait1 :)
22:10 dcook Ah, only cait now
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22:36 Francesca hello
22:37 cait hi Francesca
22:37 Francesca hey cait :)
22:37 Francesca sup
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23:02 * andreashm waves
23:03 * cait waves
23:03 cait ruby? :)
23:07 andreashm cait: sleeping actually. as should I to be honest.
23:07 cait yeah, you go tno good excuse this time
23:07 andreashm but I saw that I had unread e-mails from dcook about the metadata-table so I figured I could stick around for a while.
23:07 andreashm =)
23:08 dcook Do you?
23:08 dcook I was just going to pen another one I think ;)
23:08 andreashm but now I'm done reading... debating whether or not I should go to bed.
23:09 andreashm dcook: the ones to Devel
23:09 dcook Ahh
23:09 andreashm hi dcook btw
23:09 dcook heya :)
23:09 andreashm nice to be around here at the same time! usually only see your activity in the logs. =)
23:10 dcook Indeed. I imagine it must be rather late for you
23:10 andreashm 00.10
23:10 dcook I sometimes think you never sleep ;)
23:10 dcook Must be a European thing
23:10 * dcook looks cait's way
23:10 dcook Only 10am here
23:11 andreashm I'm awake with my six month daugther from time to time at night. I have answered some of your e-mails around 4 am or so. might explain some of my strange writing, haha
23:11 * cait has the excuse of being on vacation :)
23:11 andreashm cait: vacation, smacation
23:11 dcook Maybe "vacation" is one of those words that gets lost in translation :p
23:11 * dcook thought that's where a person didn't do work
23:11 andreashm dcook: pfff
23:11 andreashm =)
23:12 dcook andreashm: I'll probably be doing the same thing next year
23:12 dcook Only a few months more until my spawn are ready to be born
23:12 * andreashm is going on vacation on wednesday. down to switzerland to check things out.
23:12 dcook Oh? Whereabouts?
23:12 andreashm dcook: lots of fun thing to look forward too? but the lack of sleep is not one of them!
23:12 dcook hehe
23:12 andreashm sion, east of lausanne
23:13 andreashm don't know where that question mark came from
23:13 andreashm guess I am tired.
23:13 dcook Ah, I've never been out that way
23:14 dcook I think I've only been to Geneva, Zurich, and Chur
23:14 cait you got very close to here then :)
23:14 andreashm We'll be fling down to Zurich and then taking the train to Sion. Then another train to fly back from Geneva.
23:15 cait :)
23:15 cait quite a trip :)
23:17 cait hm can someone help rephrase this a bit?
23:17 cait Send a copy in bcc of the ClaimAcquisition and ClaimIssues letters to the active user
23:18 andreashm cait: yeah. but we want to see a little of the country when we go down now.
23:18 cait Send all claim notices in serials and acquisitions as a BCC to the user sending them ?
23:19 * cait summons wizzyrea
23:19 wizzyrea yes?
23:19 dcook cait: I recall seeing Konstanz on the train maps in Zurich :)
23:19 wizzyrea oh
23:19 wizzyrea hm.
23:19 cait dcook: yeah - there are direct trains form there to here :)
23:19 cait this is bug 10076
23:19 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10076 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, charles.farmer, Signed Off , Add Bcc syspref for claimacquisition and clamissues
23:20 cait i think ClaimIssues is the internal name of it - - and not sure about how clear active user is
23:20 wizzyrea Right
23:21 cait OverdueNoticeBcc (that we should rename and remove Overdue..) reads: Send all notices as a BCC to this email address
23:21 cait hm not really helpful
23:21 wizzyrea yeah but the email addy is specified?
23:21 cait nope
23:21 cait it will use the one of the user doing the claiming
23:21 wizzyrea see that's confusing.
23:21 wizzyrea no I meant the overduenoticebcc
23:21 cait ah yeah there you specify the email address
23:21 wizzyrea right k
23:21 cait because it's for the emails send out automatically
23:21 wizzyrea right
23:21 cait the claims are done manually
23:22 wizzyrea Blind copy logged in user when sending claims notices?
23:22 cait hm yeah :9
23:22 cait :)
23:22 wizzyrea or BCC, if you feel that's clear
23:22 cait maybe we could say claims notices for serial issues or acquisition orders?
23:23 wizzyrea BCC logged in user when sending serial or acquisitions claims notices
23:23 wizzyrea (or something like)
23:24 cait we could also say  [Send|Don't send blind copy (BCC) to logged in user when sending serial or acquisitions claims notices
23:24 wizzyrea ^ would be more consistent I think
23:24 wizzyrea verb or don't verb
23:24 wizzyrea should be the rule.
23:25 cait sorry, don't understand
23:25 wizzyrea it's ok
23:25 wizzyrea it's not important.
23:26 cait ok - sorry late here :)
23:26 cait i will suggest that then
23:32 cait wizzyrea++
23:33 Francesca joined #koha
23:43 andreashm time for bed. bye #koha
23:48 Francesca joined #koha
23:56 Francesca joined #koha

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