IRC log for #koha, 2015-06-24

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:09 rocio left #koha
01:51 Francesca joined #koha
01:52 * Francesca waves
01:52 Francesca rangi you around?
01:57 cdickinson He's on the phone at the moment :P
01:58 Francesca oh cool
01:58 Francesca hows it going dickinson?
01:58 Francesca stupid auto correct
01:58 Francesca cdickinson
01:59 cdickinson well, at least your autocorrect has my name in it in some way :P
01:59 cdickinson going good, enjoying the warmth of the Catalyst office. My project works, so now I'm just tidying stuff up
02:00 Francesca thats super cool
02:00 cdickinson how about you? you haven't been up in a while, I take it... or at least I haven't been here THAT much haha
02:00 Francesca i was really busy with uni so had to stop doing web stuff for a bit
02:01 Francesca but I'm on break now so I might be seeing you guys soon
02:01 Francesca Just need to check with rangi when the best time is to turn up
02:03 cdickinson cool :D
02:04 cdickinson man, Uni being off is making feel like I have my humanity back after being like a robot
02:04 Francesca for sure
02:04 Francesca For weeks all I could think in and speak in were musical terms of some sort
02:05 Francesca And now I'm that I'm on break I can actually think about other stuff like catalyst
02:07 cdickinson useful language for daily life, is it? :P
02:07 Francesca depends who you're talking too
02:08 Francesca Other musicians might understand
02:08 Francesca other people not so much
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02:12 cdickinson understand that one
02:12 cdickinson I'm no musician, but I do understand Japanese and too many programming languages to count
02:13 irma joined #koha
02:13 Francesca lol. I understand HTML, CSS and bits and pieces of other languages
02:14 Francesca and bits and pieces of human languages from singing as well
02:19 Francesca joined #koha
02:19 Francesca hey wizzyrea you around?
02:19 wizzyrea kinda, sup
02:20 Francesca do you think it'd be ok if I came in on friday?
02:20 Francesca I'm on holiday for the next 3 weeks
02:22 wizzyrea We are suuuuper busy right now with security upgrades :/
02:22 wizzyrea so I don't know how much time we'd have to help
02:23 Francesca hmm I'll chat to rangi
02:23 Francesca maybe sometime next week or the week after would be better instead
02:23 rangi i think probably not this week, we are going to be pretty flat out
02:24 rangi but next week should be ok
02:24 Francesca ok cool
02:24 Francesca any days in particular that would be better for you?
02:25 rangi usually thursdays and fridays are quieter .. usually .. its hard to know
02:25 Francesca ok
02:25 wizzyrea not this week though >.<
02:25 Francesca I'll just keep an eye on irc then
02:25 Francesca I'll come next friday then probably
02:27 Francesca that all good with you guys?
02:27 rangi yep that should be fine
02:28 Francesca sweet I'll see you then :) feels like ages since I last came in
02:28 cdickinson :)
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03:18 bag hello
03:18 wahanui que tal, bag
03:22 rangi the support listing can diaf
03:28 pianohacker hi rangi
03:28 rangi hey pianohacker and bag
03:28 bag what’s diaf?
03:29 pianohacker die in a fire
03:29 pianohacker heh. I'm guessing from context, but I think that's rangi's general sentiment
03:29 rangi yup
03:30 pianohacker something new happen?
03:30 rangi just being pestered on and now offlist about listings
03:30 bag yeah that’s one discussion I am not interested in joining at all
03:31 bag I had a majorly awesome chat with trea last night though
03:31 rangi sweet
03:31 * bag loves that dude
03:32 pianohacker trea++
03:32 pianohacker I'm gonna head the heck out now that Debian packages are happy
03:32 pianohacker bye all
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06:00 * magnuse waves
06:07 * magnuse upgrades his test server to 3.20.1
06:09 cait joined #koha
06:11 magnuse kia ora cait
06:14 cait hi magnuse
06:15 liz hello europe. It's very early.
06:17 magnuse nah 8:16 am
06:18 magnuse[…]ting_24_June_2015
06:19 magnuse is the wiki down?
06:25 magnuse huh? when rying to view http://koha:8080/cgi-bin/koha/admin/ i get a popup that says "Warning: ColVis requires DataTables 1.7 or greater -"
06:25 cait oh
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06:27 cait seems to workok for me
06:29 p_vdk left #koha
06:31 magnuse it looks ok when i click "OK"
06:32 magnuse meeting in 8.5 hours?
06:33 magnuse to clarify: the popup was on 3.20.1, just upgraded
06:38 wicope joined #koha
06:42 cait magnuse: not seeing it on master, but probably need to do a git pull
06:42 cait file a bug? :)
06:42 cait i have to take the burnt cake to work now *grumps*
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06:44 reiveune joined #koha
06:44 reiveune hello
06:44 wahanui hola, reiveune
06:56 fridolin joined #koha
06:58 fridolin hie
06:58 alex_a joined #koha
06:58 alex_a bonjour
07:00 drojf joined #koha
07:01 drojf mrnng
07:02 magnuse ooh, is it drop-the-vowels-day? :-)
07:02 drojf ys
07:03 drojf cffn mght hlp
07:04 Jul joined #koha
07:14 drojf .luxury domains, only 599,00 € :D
07:14 drojf
07:16 magnuse lulz
07:16 * magnuse will probably never like tlds with more than 4 characters
07:16 reiveune joined #koha
07:19 * drojf neither
07:19 drojf we should sell .koha domains to rude paid support listing requesters. as a sign that they are officially bad
07:19 magnuse that's how we dock
07:19 magnuse drojf: awesome!
07:19 wahanui That'll be $1 for the awesome jar, magnuse
07:23 drojf magnuse: is there that much drunk docking going on in norway that it was worth to make that clip? :)
07:24 magnuse weeel, i think i read that about 30 people die in boat accidents in norway every year and 1/4 of those have been drinking
07:24 magnuse more people are probably hurt
07:24 gaetan_B joined #koha
07:24 drojf ouch
07:25 gaetan_B hello
07:25 Joubu joined #koha
07:25 Joubu Hola #koha
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07:33 kivilahtio hole Joubu
07:33 kivilahtio erm, hola
07:34 codavid left #koha
07:34 magnuse there, security updates done
07:39 liz magnuse: you didn't have any trouble with the translations?
07:39 * liz looks at the list
07:42 drojf i had none with 3.18.8
07:43 drojf i'll try to upgrade something to 3.20.1
07:45 magnuse liz: don't think so
07:46 magnuse was i supposed to?
07:46 liz nope, just curious
07:46 liz do please let me know if you have any trouble with 3.18.8
07:47 magnuse yeah, i have been seeing what beda reports for a while, it's just some leftover dirs from the old themes, i think
07:47 magnuse will do!
07:47 liz yeah I've seen it too, I wondered what it was about but it's never caused any problem so I just ignore it
07:47 magnuse it's what my customers are on, so i will hear it if there is trouble :-)
07:47 liz should probably file a bug just to make sure the message goes away
07:47 liz usability and such.
07:49 drojf i don't think i got that message when i updated
08:00 drojf nope. 3.18.5 to 3.20.1 also did not give me that
08:00 leander joined #koha
08:05 drojf hi leander
08:08 cait joined #koha
08:08 cait morning all
08:09 drojf hi cait
08:12 cait hi drojf
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08:29 Joubu fridolin: Are you still working on bug 14440?
08:29 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14440 major, P5 - low, ---, fridolin.somers, Needs Signoff , get_template_and_user can not have an empty template_name
08:30 fridolin Joubu: I've don 2 patches, If you want to do the 2 others with check_api_auth, your welcome
08:30 fridolin in fact, all ajax perl scripts should use this method maybe
08:32 Viktor joined #koha
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08:43 cait hi Viktor and andreashm
08:43 * andreashm waves
08:53 Viktor Hi cait andreashsm
08:57 rangi evening
08:57 Viktor Seems like xarragon might have a working POC for history on MARC records in a while. The tests are done and code to track all changes. Now doing fancy ways of viewing the history.
08:57 rangi cool!
08:58 Viktor It's the first step so people can have a look and tell us where we are stupid :)
08:58 liz ah! that's awesome!
08:58 Viktor (But track all changes to all fields which I find ambitious for a POC)
08:58 rangi if its just viewing the history of the marcxml
08:59 rangi then it would be able to be used for LOD stuff later too, ie, xml is xml
09:00 Viktor rangi Think it's done as a JSON array tracking changes from the "Edit record" currently. I'm not familiar with all the details. But the plan is to get it in the hands of people that can tell how to solve it in a better way :)
09:01 Viktor What's LOD btw?
09:01 magnuse Linked Open Data, i would guess
09:01 Viktor Ah :)
09:02 andreashm Viktor: You should have been at ELAG. Lots of talk of LOd there. =)
09:02 andreashm LOD.
09:02 Viktor We see three cases: Viewing history for the collection, for a single record and for a single field.
09:02 andreashm Can't spell today either.
09:03 Viktor I do like LOD, but getting anything fun done in MARC system always seem unrealistic...:/
09:04 Viktor Think we'll send a mail to the devel list when we have a repo people can test a POC from.
09:04 magnuse when rangi and i can find the time, we will semantify koha :-)
09:04 rangi yep
09:04 rangi its not actually technically that hard
09:04 magnuse nope
09:04 rangi what is holding it back is politics
09:04 rangi and inertia
09:04 Viktor I like that :) I've looked a bit at semantikoha before and it's promising.
09:04 Viktor Marc do need to die..
09:04 andreashm politics smolitics
09:04 andreashm just fix!
09:04 andreashm =)
09:04 liz oh inertia, such a terrible mistress.
09:05 rangi andreashm: the politics is in getting libraries to pay us to fix it ...
09:05 andreashm I looked at semantikoha a while back but can remember anything of it. what's the plan there?
09:05 Viktor We switched to RDA in here a while ago and at first I thought i had read RDF and was a bit excited :)
09:05 andreashm (yes, I'm lazy... better if magnuse tells me instead)
09:06 rangi i wish we had got the 3 million dollars kuali got ... we'd have fixed everything by now ;-)
09:06 andreashm rangi: ah, that kind of politics. makes it trickier.
09:06 rangi rda?
09:06 wahanui rda is my cataloguing standards are bad, and you should feel bad
09:06 rangi heh
09:06 rangi rda?
09:06 wahanui i guess rda is my cataloguing standards are bad, and you should feel bad
09:06 liz hahahaha
09:06 andreashm rangi: kuali got three million? wow
09:06 liz need a gif for that.
09:06 rangi somthing like that
09:06 rangi maybe 2
09:07 rangi a lot anyway ;)
09:07 andreashm us dollars?
09:07 rangi yep
09:07 andreashm wow. again.
09:07 rangi they got a couple of grants
09:07 rangi we should use more marc
09:07 wahanui http://02varvara.files.wordpre[…]no-bear.jpg?w=800
09:07 rangi i love wahanui
09:08 andreashm grants are always good. maybe we should apply for more.
09:08 andreashm =)
09:08 rangi :)
09:09 * Viktor is not really at work so sods off again, but couldn't resist a quick peek at #koha
09:09 magnuse that is the plan for the fuding committee, methinks
09:09 magnuse Viktor++
09:10 magnuse andreashm: semantikoha will transform marc to rdf, store the rdf in a triplestore and use that to create a better public catalogue
09:11 magnuse and enhance the rdf in the triplestore in clever ways, ways that could never be done with MARC
09:11 andreashm magnuse: sounds great. would it also make koha able to ingest rdf from other sources?
09:11 andreashm (like LIBRIS XL for us?)
09:12 andreashm wishes the funding comitee good luck with possible future applications!
09:12 andreashm (forgot /me)
09:13 andreashm bug 13799 seems on fire this morning
09:13 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=13799 new feature, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , Add base for building RESTful API
09:14 Joubu outch I have just found a very bad bad bug
09:15 rangi hmm?
09:17 liz you can't say that and then not tell us >.<
09:18 Joubu rangi: bug and patch coming
09:18 Joubu not sure I want to write it here publicly :)
09:19 liz O.o
09:19 liz http://devopsreactions.tumblr.[…]brand-new-feature
09:20 Joubu 14449
09:20 rangi hmm whats the url for a itemsearch?
09:21 liz go to advanced search in staff, then there's a link at the top
09:22 liz which I know isn't what you asked
09:25 liz http://localhost:8081/cgi-bin/[…]gue/
09:26 rangi ta
09:29 rangi the itemsearch one should be easy to fix, id probably rename the templates
09:30 rangi (the one that jacek reported)
09:31 liz to just .tt?
09:32 rangi yeah
09:32 Joubu ha yes the itemsearch is broken too
09:32 * Joubu just realised...
09:32 liz it seems delicate.
09:32 liz the itemsearch
09:32 rangi
09:32 rangi
09:32 rangi would fix it
09:33 Joubu should be fix like: if $template_name {get_template_and_user} else {check_api_auth} I think
09:33 rangi multiple . in filenames always annoys me
09:33 liz yeah it starts looking like an internet address
09:33 rangi well in the itemsearch case, it actually wants the templates
09:33 liz or at least that's why it annoys me.
09:33 Joubu forget what I said
09:34 rangi the other 4, on 14440 ... were using a sideeffect of get_template_and_user
09:34 Joubu template_name is always defined
09:34 rangi yeah
09:34 Joubu it's because of the 2 dots
09:34 rangi yup
09:34 rangi git mv those 2 files and fix change the call
09:34 rangi is how i would do it
09:35 Joubu I am 5min late...
09:35 rangi :)
09:35 rangi i was waiting for jacek to file a new bug
09:35 liz you could probably beat me, I'm waiting on my git to update :)
09:36 rangi im pretty happy that apart from the issues with path traversal bug, all our production sites upgraded pretty easily
09:37 Francesca joined #koha
09:37 rangi and as a side effect we are now finding all the different ways people used get_template_and_user ;)
09:37 liz novel, and interesting ways.
09:37 liz and maybe a little punch drunk, one too many hits with a snake.
09:41 liz yeah, that totally fixes it
09:41 * Joubu is ready to sign off :)
09:43 rangi i just signed off on your one
09:43 rangi soon as theres a bug for the itemsearch one i can do a patch
09:43 cait i got lost in the discussion if you ened me yu need to explain in simple words please
09:43 * cait goes to read the bug updates
09:44 Joubu thanks
09:46 rangi hmm
09:46 rangi is part of your patch missing liz?
09:46 rangi it doesnt rename the files, plus a typo, maybe we should obsolete it off that bug, and put it on its own bug
09:48 liz yikes. yes I'll fix it
09:48 rangi do you want me to make the new bug?
09:48 liz nah I will
09:49 rangi just a rule of thumb, we should never go back from pushed ... in the status, that way madness lies
09:50 rangi it gets impossible to figure out what was pushed and when
09:51 liz right sorry wasn't thinking properly there.
09:53 magnuse almost 10 pm in nz, eh?
09:54 liz meh
09:55 rangi it's been a long day
09:57 * magnuse sends cookies
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09:57 liz :)
09:58 liz bug 14450
09:58 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14450 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Stricter template name rules cause itemsearch to stop working
09:58 liz i like getting round number bugs.
09:58 magnuse yay
09:58 liz (ones that end in)
09:58 liz 0 even.
10:00 magnuse paperwork--
10:00 cait oooh what happened to bug 14444
10:00 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14444 minor, P5 - low, ---, mtj, NEW , A biblio's 'modification history' view confusingly includes info from a unrelated item
10:00 cait hm
10:01 magnuse cait: not much, by the looks of it?
10:01 liz er
10:02 liz I think we'd need a better example there
10:02 cait was just wondering who got the nice number :)
10:02 liz :)
10:02 rangi liz: yep, that looks to be working
10:02 rangi however i cant sign off ;)
10:02 * liz does the git add walk of shame
10:03 liz as in, I forgot to.
10:03 rangi Joubu: over to you for bug 14450
10:03 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14450 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , Stricter template name rules cause itemsearch to stop working
10:03 liz (but it's fixed now)
10:03 rangi (naw i cant cos i work with you)
10:03 magnuse cait: ah, but 14444 does not end in 0 :-)
10:03 liz nowai
10:03 liz :)
10:03 liz god how lucky am I!
10:03 liz (srs!)
10:04 magnuse :-)
10:05 liz i'm glad you caught it, waking up to "hey nub this patch is bunk" isn't my favourite thing ever.
10:05 liz but seriously, bug 14444, that needs more info.
10:05 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14444 minor, P5 - low, ---, mtj, NEW , A biblio's 'modification history' view confusingly includes info from a unrelated item
10:07 cait i left a comment
10:09 Joubu rangi: do you want me to sign it off or keep my token for the qa step?
10:09 cait Joubu: i cn qa if you sign off :)
10:09 rangi i think we can get cait to qa it for us eh cait ?
10:09 cait ;)
10:10 rangi right and now i might try to get some sleep, i suspect tomorrow is gonna be another busy day
10:11 cait sleep well rangi
10:11 cait hope you are wrong :)
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10:13 Joubu I had exactly the same patch, so easy to confirm it works :)
10:13 liz \o/
10:13 * Joubu sends bug 14450 to cait
10:13 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14450 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Signed Off , Stricter template name rules cause itemsearch to stop working
10:14 liz I hope that making the bug, and making a patch will make up for the fact that I called the poor fella by the wrong name >.<
10:15 liz I have been full of silly mistakes this evening.
10:15 Joubu cait: wait a moment, I will reupload the patch with the 2 SO
10:16 cait just shout when it's ready
10:17 * Joubu shouts
10:19 cait heh
10:19 cait bug number?
10:20 cait the itemssearch ne?
10:20 liz 14450
10:20 liz yep
10:22 cait ok
10:23 cait has 2 sign offs now? :)
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10:29 cait hm
10:29 cait should we also rename the includes or are they save?
10:29 cait catalogue/
10:29 cait i guess they are save
10:32 liz idk, it seems to work
10:33 cait yep just tested
10:33 cait looks ok
10:34 cait done
10:35 liz \o/
10:35 indradg joined #koha
10:35 liz right. bedtime
10:36 magnuse liz++ cait++ Joubu++ rangi++
10:54 cait Joubu++ #rancor testing this time:)
10:54 magnuse indeed!
11:14 cait hm question... the more/fewer selection... didn't that use to be stored in a cookie? once you switched it?
11:19 Joubu cait: the more/fewer ?
11:19 Joubu which one?
11:19 wahanui i heard which one was that? The fixed navbar?
11:20 Francesca joined #koha
11:20 cait ah sorry
11:20 cait the switch on the advanced search page
11:20 cait i thought it remembered ... or used to remember
11:20 cait i know you can change the default via pref
11:20 Joubu ha, I don't know
11:20 cait i am looking at the opac
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11:22 Joubu cait: The link "Return to the last advanced search" does remember
11:22 Joubu but that's all
11:23 cait yeah i know :)
11:23 cait i just thought it also used to show you the form you were last looking at
11:23 bgkriegel Hello
11:23 cait in the past
11:23 cait hi bernardo :)
11:23 bgkriegel Hi cait :)
11:23 cait Joubu: not remembering the search terms - but the bigger or the smaller form
11:29 khall @later tell mtompset I rebased 11405 for you!
11:29 huginn` khall: The operation succeeded.
11:29 * magnuse waves to khall
11:29 khall mornin!
11:30 cait morning khall
11:30 khall mornin cait!
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13:11 Guest2743 I am in the test phase for our new KOHA installation and it looks like the linked fields (transliteration to Arabic script) are not displaying. Neither are the diacritics.
13:12 Guest2743 What is the method to allow 880 (linked fields) to display and is there any way to get diacritics to display?
13:12 Guest2743 Thanks
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13:20 Jesse_ I am looking for information to get diacritics to display as well as linked 880 fields with Arabic script. Thank you
13:24 Jesse_ Also, curious, if I remove diacritics from records, does that affect the search?
13:25 tcohen joined #koha
13:25 Joubu Jesse_: What do you call diacritics?
13:25 Joubu éàè?
13:25 tcohen morning
13:25 Jesse_ Yes, like that
13:25 wahanui i guess like that is hard to vote on. :)
13:25 Joubu Good morning tcohen
13:26 Joubu Jesse_: and where do you want them to be displayed?
13:26 Jesse_ Well, I would like the records to display the transliterated text with diacritics and the linked 880 fields with the Arabic script
13:27 Jesse_ This results in some left-to-right text and its accompanying right-to-left script
13:27 Jesse_ I saw a bug listed in Bugzilla, but it was not clear to me if that was fixed (from about a year ago)
13:28 Jesse_ I would hate to have to remove all diacritics.
13:28 Jesse_ Also, I am curious if removing diacritics in the transliterated text will affect search
13:30 Jesse_ Happy Birthday tcohen
13:30 tcohen heh
13:30 tcohen thanks
13:30 Joubu1 joined #koha
13:30 tcohen but that's old
13:30 Jesse_ ok
13:30 tcohen today is dcook's
13:30 cait Jesse_: it works
13:30 wahanui For now...
13:30 Jesse_ I see
13:30 cait Jesse_: are you using XSLT displays?
13:31 tcohen @later tell dcook happy birthday!
13:31 huginn` tcohen: The operation succeeded.
13:31 Jesse_ Well, happy birthday dcook
13:31 tcohen hi cait
13:31 Joubu1 Whaou my connexion is awful today
13:31 cait Jesse_: this is 3.18
13:31 Jesse_ Looking now...
13:32 cait we did index the 880 additionally - it's not there by default, but not too hard to do either
13:32 cait problems displaying diacritics might be the data
13:33 Jesse_ OK, so I need to add 880 to the indexing list. I will look into that
13:34 Jesse_ You mean, the source? I am using Connexion to produce and then import
13:34 cait if the data is correctly encoded the display shoud work fine
13:34 cait i have never seen problems there testing with a lot of scripts
13:35 Joubu tcohen: Did you fix the opac lang pref yesterday?
13:35 tcohen Joubu: i  got distracted
13:35 cait you might want to take a look at the marc version of those records to check for differences
13:35 cait or catalog one manually and see if you can make the data show
13:35 Jesse_ Hmm, Let me get with my installation person and see about the 880 addition to indexing.
13:35 Joubu Are you on it or do you want me to have a look?
13:35 tcohen i was actually not sure what the best solution would be
13:35 Joubu I could try to merge the 2 prefs into 1
13:36 tcohen Joubu: the thing is
13:36 cait indexing will help with search - also you absolutely need ICU - but there is information about that on the wiki - also about adding new indexes
13:36 Jesse_ Yes, ICU, I looked that up yesterday
13:36 Jesse_ I will be adding that to the list, thank you
13:36 tcohen the (original) syspref name makes u think it controls wether the languages are shown or not
13:36 tcohen but the description says it allows/disallows the user to change the language
13:37 Joubu tcohen: I think we should remove the existing pref
13:37 Joubu and keep the new one
13:37 Joubu with none, top, bottom, both
13:37 Jesse_ OK, thanks. In the records I have imported now, I am getting a bunch of numbers where the Arabic should be
13:37 tcohen would you let the user change the language even if the dropdown is not rendered?
13:37 tcohen i.e. using ?lang=<lang-code>
13:38 Joubu ha
13:38 Joubu but... if the template is generated, why preventing the user to use it?
13:39 cait Jesse_: hm strange - I really think there is something wrong with encoding int he data you import
13:39 Jesse_ Hmmm,
13:39 tcohen Joubu: I don't know, but we might be breaking someone's functionality heh
13:40 Jesse_ Here is an example of a record from a library we work with that has neither script nor diacritics. It looks good, but the script needs to be there:[…]h%20Isma%60il.%22
13:41 Joubu tcohen: What kind of functionnality?
13:41 tcohen nevermind
13:42 tcohen we should push this as-is and have a new bug to deal with the syspref merge
13:42 Jesse_ The Hochschule as listed above is a good example of non-latin scripts displaying fine, but there are very few diacritics.
13:43 drojf Jesse_: there is no 880 in the marc view.
13:44 Joubu tcohen: yep, agree
13:45 Jesse_ Right, this one has no diacritics, no 880, yest is displaying the Arabic.[…]%2Cwrdl%3A%20oman
13:45 Jesse_ We are looking to display it properly with the 880
13:46 Jesse_ I am just not seeing too many examples, for instance, when I search for KOHA libraries using 880 with Arabic script
13:46 bgkriegel Jesse_: properly is title in arabic too?
13:47 Jesse_ The title is correct, but the record contains no 880
13:47 Jesse_ It does not do justice to the Arabic and gives it a crunched look
13:48 Jesse_ But this one from the Hochschule contains a properly formatted 880 but no MARC view:[…]w%2Cwrdl%3A%20dvd
13:49 Jesse_ Also, not Arabic
13:49 Jesse_ Hebrew, but the 880 and display should be workign the same
13:50 mario joined #koha
13:50 Joubu1 joined #koha
13:50 bgkriegel i see
13:50 Jesse_ I think I just need to contact my contractor who handled the installation and work it out with indexing (ICU) and to add 880 to the list
13:51 tcohen Joubu: didn't we introduce DBIx::Connector to gracefuly handle reconnection?
13:51 Jesse_ Thank you everyone. Have a great  Wednesday. Cheers
13:51 ashimema interesting thing there tcohen.. I think we did.. but ribasushi tells me often that that's a bad idea ;)
13:52 tcohen interesting, did he mention why?
13:52 ashimema DBIx::Class can do that sort of stuff itself.. and in much more compatible ways..
13:52 ashimema DBIx::Connector was forked from DBIx::Class to bring out the reconnecting code cleverness..  but it also re-wrote some of the transactions handling code..
13:53 ashimema and so.. if you attempt to use both apparently your likely to break txn->do and the likes..
13:53 ashimema I think
13:54 ribasushi DBIx::Connector contains ~70% of the functionality of DBIC itself, being written in a way where the other 30% are not usable
13:54 ribasushi if you are using DBIC already there is nothing DBIx::Connector can provide you that you don't already have
13:54 ashimema :)
13:54 ashimema you beat me to it ribasushi :)
13:55 ribasushi that is DBIC should generally be able to use a $dbh as given to it by DBIx::Connector, but it will disable a lot of its more advanced internal handling because of that
13:55 ribasushi so nothing will "break" outright
13:55 tcohen so is counter-productive
13:56 tcohen thanks for clarifying ribasushi
13:56 Joubu joined #koha
13:56 ribasushi tcohen: now with that being said - what is the *actual* problem that got you folks to dig into this?
13:56 ashimema I'm reasonably sure I mentioned this at the time.. but didn't have the time to really get to grips with it enough to explain it myself ;)
13:56 ribasushi is there a particular operation that fails and does not restart itself?
13:57 ribasushi if you get me more details I can probably explain the chain of events further
13:57 ashimema If I'm remembering ir rightly.. it was that when running in a persistent app (plack in our case), that we were loosing the db connection and never trying to get it back again.
13:57 ashimema as for specifics.. I'll go see if I can dig out the bug report.. it wasn't one I worked on personally :S
13:57 ribasushi can someone link me to where I can browse through the code?
13:58 ribasushi oh a bugreport would be even better
13:58 Joubu bug 14374
13:58 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14374 normal, P5 - low, ---, fridolin.somers, Needs Signoff , dont use mysql_auto_reconnect with DBIx::Connector
13:58 Joubu but it does not remove the use of DBIx::Connector
13:58 tcohen ribasushi: we've been using a DBI db handler directly, and passing it to DBIC. We are in the transition to move into using DBIC
13:59 tcohen the first consecquence was that DBI transactions broke DBIC's
13:59 tcohen in our tests
13:59 ribasushi tcohen: that shouldn't have happened...
13:59 Joubu1 joined #koha
13:59 ribasushi basically DBIC should have "failed gracefully", I may be looking at a bug on my side
13:59 Joubu1 and it's not the good one, sorry...
14:00 ribasushi which version of DBIC are you folks at?
14:00 ashimema our db connection stuff is hideous ;)
14:00 ribasushi ashimema: I doubt you can impress me, as said by a colleague back in the 1980s "I have seen things you people wouldn't believe"
14:01 tcohen[…]5838f973c70a70b61
14:02 ashimema 13645 is the original bug where DBIx::Connector was added
14:02 ashimema bug 13645
14:02 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=13645 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Stable , DBIx connection needs to be cached
14:02 ribasushi tcohen: and that very diff started failing?
14:02 tcohen when we started using DBIC more broadly in the code, the tests started failing due to nested transaction problems
14:02 ribasushi DBIC version?
14:02 tcohen so we did that kind of changes, to let DBIC handle the outer transaction
14:03 tcohen I think is wheeze's
14:04 tcohen s/e'/y'/
14:04 fridolin Joubu tcohen what do you this about this Bug 14375
14:04 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14375 critical, P5 - low, ---, fridolin.somers, Failed QA , DBIx::Connector should be stored in C4::Context instead of dbh
14:04 ashimema yup.. we're using the deb package by default.. so it'll be Wheexy's packaged version for most people
14:04 ribasushi tcohen: oooooh that'd be your first problem
14:04 ashimema we're not exactly all that strict in our dependancies.
14:05 tcohen d*mn
14:05 ribasushi sec
14:05 tcohen ribasushi: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]er_D7/437/console
14:05 * ashimema pipes up with carton and plenv
14:05 tcohen look for "16:13:13"
14:05 ashimema but it wouldn't be package friendly..
14:06 * ashimema is moving to containers for perl apps these days.. much easier than relying on the rest of the system being at a reasonable state.
14:06 tcohen ashimema: makes sense :-D please share :-D
14:07 tcohen can someone buy a reliable 4g dongle for Joubu? :-P
14:07 ribasushi tcohen: let me read more into this, this is sufficient info for now...
14:07 tcohen ribasushi: thanks
14:08 Joubu tcohen: actually I switched on the 3g right now, the wifi is annoying today...
14:08 tcohen heh
14:10 ribasushi interesting...
14:10 wahanui i heard interesting was sometimes good and sometimes bad
14:10 ribasushi that does in fact look like a bug
14:11 ribasushi how hard would it be for me to get things set up locally so I can see this test fail firsthand?
14:11 ribasushi (or perhaps you have a VM or somesuch)
14:12 ribasushi ashimema, tcohen: ^^
14:12 fridolin FYI : i've found a major bug on dom config generator : Bug 14453
14:12 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14453 major, P5 - low, ---, fridolin.somers, Needs Signoff , kohaidx is missing for id in authority-koha-indexdefs.xml
14:13 ashimema hmm.
14:13 tcohen ribasushi: clone kohadevbox
14:13 tcohen then vagrant up
14:13 tcohen vagrant ssh
14:13 ashimema
14:13 tcohen and within the kohaclone directory
14:13 tcohen git checkout d76c9f4850c9ba7605f2c405838f973c70a70b61
14:13 kivilahtio_ tcohen: check this out Bug 13920 - API authentication system - Swagtenticator authentication - WIP
14:13 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=13920 new feature, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , API authentication system - proposal
14:14 kivilahtio_ its pretty cool :)
14:15 tcohen fridolin: that's big
14:16 ribasushi tcohen: ok, will get there in the next hour or so
14:16 tcohen cool
14:18 talljoy joined #koha
14:23 carmen joined #koha
14:26 talljoy joined #koha
14:27 Joubu the next logout is intended ;)
14:35 NateC joined #koha
14:40 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 12074: Filter duplicates when adding a batch from a staged file <[…]98e28bffd8cc24b2b> / Bug 14450: itemsearch no longer working <[…]59f2fb06972f6bdee> / Bug 14439: Add test - template path should finish by .tt <
14:57 cait countdown for meeting!
14:58 Joubu joined #koha
14:58 cait wb Joubu :)
14:58 Joubu o/
14:59 geek_cl joined #koha
14:59 cait hm we lost tcohen
15:00 cait i will give it 2-3 more mins for people to arrive before starting
15:00 kivilahtio_ okok
15:01 ashimema hola
15:02 tcohen joined #koha
15:03 tcohen ufff
15:03 tcohen massive conexion outage
15:03 tcohen am i online?
15:03 drojf yup
15:03 Joubu no
15:03 bgkriegel joined #koha
15:03 drojf lol
15:03 tcohen oh, how unfortunate Joubu :-P
15:03 cait ok
15:03 cait tcohen is back
15:03 fridolin left #koha
15:04 cait we can start ;)
15:04 drojf schrödingers onlininess
15:04 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS-Europe
15:04 cait #startmeetig Development IRC meeting 24 June 2015
15:04 * tcohen expected everything had been decided while absent
15:04 cait #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 24 June 2015
15:04 huginn` Meeting started Wed Jun 24 15:04:31 2015 UTC.  The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at
15:04 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:04 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 24 June 2015)
15:04 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_24_june_2015'
15:04 tcohen absinth hmmmm
15:04 cait #topic Introductions
15:04 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
15:04 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 24 June 2015)
15:04 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS-Europe
15:04 cait please introduce yourself using #info!
15:04 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin, Germany
15:04 tcohen #info Tomás Cohen Arazi
15:04 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
15:04 bgkriegel #info Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel
15:04 jajm #info Julian Maurice
15:05 nengard #info Nicole Engard, ByWater
15:05 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart
15:05 alex_a #info Alex Arnaud, Biblibre
15:05 TGoat joined #koha
15:05 cait today's agenda is here:
15:05 cait #link[…]ting_24_June_2015
15:05 tcohen thanks cait
15:05 khall #info Kyle M Hall, ByWater Solutions
15:06 cait I have an hour 15 - after that i need to hand over to tcohen - but maybe it will be enough :)
15:06 kivilahtio_ #info Olli-Antti Kivilahti, Vaara-kirjastot
15:06 cait let's move on
15:06 drojf dev-meetings are that long? eeek
15:07 cait #topic RM 3.22 comments
15:07 Topic for #koha is now RM 3.22 comments (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 24 June 2015)
15:07 tcohen Hi everyone
15:07 nengard hi
15:07 carmen #info Carmen Hernandez, Bywater Solutions
15:07 ashimema hello
15:07 wahanui que tal, ashimema
15:07 drojf good day
15:07 khall hi tcohen!
15:07 drojf or night
15:07 drojf or the inbetween things
15:07 TGoat good day everyone :D
15:07 tcohen as you might have noticed, we've had some security bugs highlighted by rangi et al
15:07 tcohen at catalyst
15:08 tcohen they worked hard, along with frido, katrin and jonathan on having them solved -> tested -> pushed
15:08 tcohen so congrats :-d
15:09 tcohen i'd like to mention that my queue (PQA patches) has (and will) be bigger than I expected
15:09 tcohen I'm pushing around 10~ or more bugs each day, but the QA team is adding like 20 a day
15:09 Joubu Sorry about that ;)
15:09 cait Joubu++ :)
15:09 tcohen some of them are trivial and I just don't notice them at first sight
15:09 drojf damn busy qa people :P
15:09 tcohen cait++
15:09 tcohen Joubu++
15:09 tcohen marcelr++
15:10 tcohen khall++
15:10 cait :)
15:10 tcohen i've been trying to work on the bigger ones
15:10 ashimema well done qa peeps..
15:10 tcohen but it means I might lag stuff that should have been pushed already...
15:10 * ashimema not included.. he's been crap of late at QA
15:10 tcohen so
15:11 tcohen #info the RM considers 'normal' for patches on the PQA list to stay there for more than 2 weeks, if you think something needs to be pushed faster, please contact the RM personally
15:11 tcohen i do my best, you can be sure
15:12 nengard I finished up the help files for 3.20 and while we're talking 3.22 those do need to go to master and 3.20
15:12 tcohen but this people just hates me and works too hard to make me look like i'm relaxed and doing nothing
15:13 tcohen nengard: yeah, I'll push the latest patches ASAP, as they missed the string freeze i delayed them a bit
15:13 nengard no problem at all
15:13 nengard just didn't know how to note them on the bug report - I put them as 3.20 but didn't want them to get missed in 3.22
15:14 tcohen no worries, chris knows they need to be on master so he waits to cherry-pick them
15:14 tcohen ok, that's it, I'm looking forward to the next topic so, questions?
15:15 cait questions to the rm? :)
15:15 tcohen complains?
15:15 cait switching topics
15:15 cait #topic RESTful API implementation
15:15 Topic for #koha is now RESTful API implementation (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 24 June 2015)
15:15 tcohen before you ask: it is cold in cordoba this days. and i ran out of jagermeister
15:15 nengard no complaints!!!
15:15 cait #link[…]_bug.cgi?id=13799
15:15 huginn` Bug 13799: new feature, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , Add base for building RESTful API
15:15 cait #link[…]_bug.cgi?id=13920
15:15 huginn` Bug 13920: new feature, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , API authentication system - proposal
15:16 cait #link[…]/New_REST_API_RFC
15:16 kivilahtio_ I complaint for jägermesiter
15:16 tcohen kivilahtio_: thanks
15:16 cait i am not sure where to start here best - has someone prepared something?
15:16 * Joubu send some Fernet to tcohen
15:17 tcohen Joubu: will work
15:17 * drojf sends chartreuse
15:17 cait stop getting the RM drunk ;)
15:17 tcohen heh
15:17 drojf jägermeister deluxe, made by monks ;)
15:17 tcohen pastisssss
15:17 tcohen ok
15:17 * cait coughs to remind everyone of the meeting
15:17 tcohen lets talk about the implementation from jajm
15:17 jajm i think bug 13799 is ready to go in master, if nobody complains about it
15:17 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=13799 new feature, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , Add base for building RESTful API
15:18 kivilahtio_ I think there are some big issues reagrading logging
15:18 kivilahtio_ I think the way Mojolicious just kills the STDÓUT and STDERR is bad
15:18 kivilahtio_ this means that when we get issues with DBIx it is not visible in the Mojolicious logs
15:19 kivilahtio_ I have a patch to circumvent that but it is VERY hacky
15:19 tcohen kivilahtio_: can it be solved by using Koha::Logger?
15:19 khall that was my thought
15:19 kivilahtio_ Mojolicious dev's think that we should intercept all error everywhere and put them to the Mojo::Log
15:19 kivilahtio_ this is how it should be done in real world
15:19 kivilahtio_ but since Koha is not quite there yet...
15:20 kivilahtio_ I have a hack there and a script to make sure the code incisions in Mojolicious::Server (or whatever) are affecting
15:20 khall we should be able to tie it all together with MojoX::Log::Log4perl
15:20 khall maybe
15:20 kivilahtio_ and I have no problem going to prod with those, just a warning that the logging has very diferent expectations
15:20 ashimema I'm wary of this bug adding so many large files as dependancies..
15:20 kivilahtio_ khall: that is just a wrapper for Mojo::Log I think. This doesnt reopen STDOUt STDERR
15:21 ashimema for instance.. we're now packageing two jQuery versions?
15:21 ashimema moustache templates.
15:21 kivilahtio_ ashimema: the Swagger2 UI is a standalone installation
15:21 ashimema handlebars js..
15:21 ashimema and it feels like loads of others
15:21 kivilahtio_ ashimema: so that is specific to the Swagger2 UI -tool
15:21 cait I agree with ashimema
15:21 ashimema why add it to our repo in this one big bug.
15:21 khall in any case, I don't think that should be a blocker, but definitely something we should keep in mind
15:21 kivilahtio_ basically we could jus put them into gitignore or something similar
15:22 cait i am also worried about the dependencies - if this gets really hard to set up - then we got a problem (think how long sip patches take to get in)
15:22 wahanui okay, cait.
15:22 ashimema Is the very not koha api documentation actually worth all that extra cruft
15:22 kivilahtio_ ashimema: the cruft stays in its own place nicely and doesnt interfere with anything
15:22 kivilahtio_ i think the swagger is so worth everything
15:23 ashimema also.. I'm not seeing anyoen having clearly written guidlines on how to write api routes using it..
15:23 tcohen cait: dependencies is a solved issue as far as I can tell, is that correct jajm?
15:23 kivilahtio_ Today I managed barely to publish something nice where the swagger2 plugin extension deals with all Koha permissions based on the Swagger2 api definition in Koha
15:23 ashimema I want to see that as part of the core reasoning behind this patch..
15:23 kivilahtio_ so we can drive features directly from the swagger definitions
15:23 ashimema else it won't actualyl make writing routes any easier.. instead it will add burden.
15:24 jajm cait, it's not hard to setup, thanks to robin, you only have to install 2 debian packages, and update the apache virtual host conf (or run the perl process...)
15:24 cait tcohen: more thinking of things outside mojo - I got pretty confused where nginx and hypnotoads fit in :)
15:24 kivilahtio_ cait: they are just for testing/development
15:24 cait well... yes
15:24 kivilahtio_ cait: back then nobody was kind enough to publish any real server configurations
15:24 jajm cait, hypnotoad/nginx stuff has its own bug now
15:24 cait that's why i was referring to the sip patches :)
15:25 cait i need to have an essy dev/testing environment too so we can have this moving on fast :)
15:25 kivilahtio_ cait: so I made my own for me and others to start using Swagger2 while waiting for tcohen to come up with the Plack verison of services
15:25 cait if you want me to qa something- i need to be able to set it up
15:26 ashimema I still don't like that we're bundling in all thos JS libs..
15:26 kivilahtio_ jajm: But I digress. Setting up the Koha REST API is really difficult, since there is no ready virtual host configuration shared anywhere
15:26 Joubu jajm: Are the routes documented/listed somewhere?
15:26 ashimema why not pull them at clientside?
15:26 ashimema there simply is no need to package them all into this patch
15:26 kivilahtio_ Joubu: when you deploy the Koha REST API infrasturcture they are most grandoiously deocumented
15:27 kivilahtio_ go to v1/doc/index.html
15:27 kivilahtio_ and you will understand why we like Swagger2 :)
15:27 jajm kivilahtio_, there is a virtual host conf in bug 13799
15:27 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=13799 new feature, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , Add base for building RESTful API
15:27 ashimema ack..
15:27 Joubu yes but someone should be able to have a look without having an install available
15:27 ashimema swagger does NOT document for you..
15:27 ashimema you still have to document the api..
15:27 ashimema Swagger builds an interactive client for you.. if you so choose it to.
15:28 cait ok, i think we have different things here: 1 setting up - jajm says it's easy :)
15:28 Joubu I have tested the patches yesterday in 15min max
15:28 jajm Joubu, no there's nothing lke that actually, you could look at the swagger spec, but it's quite verbose
15:28 ashimema simlarly.. you don't need that client bundled in with the app.. it can be completely distinct..
15:28 Joubu install + config, even with a wrong test plan :)
15:28 ashimema i.e. hosting the Swagger spec file is enough..
15:28 ashimema then one can use thier favourite API tool to build a client..
15:29 Joubu jajm: it would be great to have a wiki page with the different routes listed
15:29 kivilahtio_ jajm: ok, maybe I missed it before, still no explanation how to run the Mojolicious?
15:29 Joubu to know quickly what is available when/where
15:29 ashimema postman for instance can take a swagger spec and generate a client to test all routes.
15:29 kivilahtio_ jajm: or the reverse proxy configurations.
15:30 jajm Joubu, it could certainly be generated automatically from the swagger spec
15:30 ashimema Joubu.. I dissagree with havig a wiki page
15:30 ashimema the swagger spec IS the spec..
15:30 ashimema it's definative.
15:30 ashimema maintaining a seperate wiki page with them is just an extra burden
15:30 cait but I thnk we shoudl have something you can access without having an installation
15:30 cait can we do that?
15:30 Joubu At least during the dev step :)
15:31 khall can it be hosted on somewhere?
15:31 cait hm I am trying to get some summary
15:31 ashimema the swagger spec file is self contained.. we could host it anywhere..
15:31 ashimema and version it ;)
15:31 kivilahtio_ Joubu: Put this to this editor
15:31 khall excellent
15:31 cait one of hte questions was ease of setup - what is needed to get it running
15:31 cait do we have instructions on that? and is mojo enough or is something else needed?
15:31 Joubu kivilahtio_: that's a quite good answer :)
15:32 kivilahtio_ absolutely no wiki, like ashimema said, the Swagger definitions are the documentation
15:32 kivilahtio_ Joubu: come clarity
15:32 jajm cait, 2 packages are needed: mojolicious and swagger2
15:32 kivilahtio_ Joubu: ATM the Koha swagger2 definitions are really slimly documented. We can add all kinds of cool documentation to the definition
15:32 cait #info 2 packages are needed: mojolicious and swagger2
15:32 ashimema exactly as kivi just said..
15:33 ashimema he swagger spec file 'is the documentation'
15:33 cait jajm: so the next question was if we should include swagger in koha? (is that the js libraries?) is that another tool?
15:33 ashimema is can be used via loads of tools out there to generate a nice to read version..
15:33 ashimema is just one example.
15:33 ashimema the crap that's been added to koha as part of this patch is another
15:33 ashimema postman is another
15:33 ashimema httpinspector another..
15:34 ashimema the list goes on and on..
15:34 khall I would say the spec file is all we should have in Koha
15:34 khall keep is simple
15:34 kivilahtio_ ashimema: I am sorry but I don't see your point here? those are only used when using the Swagger2 UI -tool? Is tehre something specific which burdens you with it?
15:34 ashimema the js libraries are the client side of swagger..
15:34 indradg joined #koha
15:34 tcohen it would at least ease the integration until we reach some consensus on how to expose the API docs
15:35 khall yes, it can always be pulled out later
15:35 cait #info Question: should we include the client side of swagger in Koha (for now)
15:35 ashimema khall I agree.. the spec file is the thing we should have in koha..
15:35 kivilahtio_ tcohen: the Swagger2 UI -tool is super awesome in testing the API
15:35 jajm cait, Swagger2 is a Perl module and a Mojolicious plugin, aside from that there is Swagger UI, which allows to see the documentation and test the api at the same time
15:35 ashimema we don't need to embed the entire demo client builder
15:35 cait #idea only keep the spec file in Koha so it can be used with different tools
15:35 cait please correct me if i put nonsense int he logs
15:35 ashimema it's Swagger UI i have issues with..
15:36 ashimema I tihnk it adds a big chunk to our repository..
15:36 kivilahtio_ ashimema: your point is valid
15:36 wahanui i already had it that way, kivilahtio_.
15:36 cait #info client side = Swagger Ui
15:36 ashimema which will quickly look old and take space
15:36 kivilahtio_ ashimema: It add a one-time chunk. and it grows if we modify it. I don't see hoe Swagger2 UI is a big chiunk considering Koha git repos is 3GB+
15:36 jajm having Swagger UI in koha only adds a self-contained "webapp"
15:36 cait could it be like git-bz?
15:36 ashimema personally.. our documentation page for the api should be one simple page allowing you to download the included swagger spec..
15:36 cait something you clone extra?
15:37 ashimema and pointing you to a couple of tools to turn spec file into human readable interactive documentation.
15:37 indradg tcohen++
15:37 cait kivilahtio_: tI think comparing to the repo is not fair -have to think tarballs
15:37 mario joined #koha
15:37 kivilahtio_ ashimema: I think it could work. But how do we easily allow QA-people to work with the API?
15:38 cait ok, so i think we can note that one question is that we need to decide what to iclude in the repo and if we include Swagger UI
15:38 cait so there is another question about documentation, right?
15:38 ashimema QA people would be doing more than the client does anyway!
15:38 cait trying to structure this a bit
15:38 ashimema Right..
15:38 ashimema so QA wise..
15:38 Joubu I am lost, Are we talking about the 1Mo patch?
15:38 kivilahtio_ ashimema: I think tehre is a lot for QA people in the API
15:38 ashimema I expect I'll use Postman, as my favourite api inspector..
15:38 Joubu first patch of bug 13799?
15:38 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=13799 new feature, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , Add base for building RESTful API
15:38 ashimema I'd load the swagger spec..
15:39 kivilahtio_ ashimema: I need to duckduckgo postman
15:39 kivilahtio_ please explain the process with posstman ashimema
15:39 ashimema and run tests agains the api using it.
15:39 tcohen can we better think of making kohadevbox take care of setting swagger-ui for a qa env?
15:39 tcohen decouple to simplify things
15:39 kivilahtio_ ashimema: is postman free and open source?
15:40 ashimema it's free..
15:40 kivilahtio_ but not OS?
15:40 ashimema it's no longer open source :(
15:40 ashimema I'd liek to replace it some time when I find something equally powerful
15:40 Joubu ...
15:40 ashimema but the point is..
15:40 pianohacker joined #koha
15:40 ashimema Swagger UI doesn't give you anything beyond what a huge number of public tools out there do..
15:41 jajm i don't understand why integrating swagger ui is a problem
15:41 Joubu Could you just confirm me that the problem is the 1Mo patch on bug 13799?
15:41 kivilahtio_ ashimema: you stand correct there. But Swagger UI is Apache2
15:41 kivilahtio_ Joubu:  yes
15:41 Joubu hmm:)
15:42 Joubu really ? :)
15:42 kivilahtio_ Joubu: 1MB is too much
15:42 kivilahtio_ :)
15:42 Joubu Do you want me to point you out other of patches in the QA which are > 1 Mo ?
15:42 Joubu (don't say yes, I don't want to find them)
15:42 kivilahtio_ ashimema: I think using Open Source is more important.
15:43 Joubu but I think that the doc of the API is important
15:43 kivilahtio_ and we need a easy tool for QA people to start inspecting our API
15:43 ashimema I think freedom to choose is more important
15:43 Joubu and 1Mo is nothing...
15:43 kivilahtio_ ashimema: you can still use wahtever you want
15:43 ashimema imho.. why bundle someone elses client in our app
15:43 Joubu and there are certainly other topics to talk about
15:43 ashimema especially as your literaly just embeding a point in time copy..
15:43 kivilahtio_ ashimema: so could we make a wiki instructions on how to easily deploy the Swagger UI?
15:43 Joubu for instance, Does everybody agree with the routes?
15:43 cait how easy would it be to set up the tool if it was not bundled?
15:43 kivilahtio_ so we don't have to include it in Koha git?
15:43 cait does it need a lot of config?
15:44 Joubu or the implementation, or something else.
15:44 kivilahtio_ cait: not very much
15:44 ashimema excactly..
15:44 cait ok i will add as idea
15:44 kivilahtio_ we could add instructions on how to deploy API inspection tools for our API
15:44 cait and we really need to move on alittle bit ok? we can put this on the wiki and continue on ml
15:44 cait #idea add instroctions on how to bundle Swagger UI but don't bundle it
15:44 kivilahtio_ I think ashimemais corerct about bundling a place-in-time copy
15:44 ashimema I just don't like embedding another app ad-nausiam into ours..
15:45 kivilahtio_ especially since there seems to be a whole ecosystem of API inspectors out there
15:45 kivilahtio_ but we need good instructions for QA people to deploy the API inspector
15:45 cait antoher question was documentaton
15:45 ashimema having a apge say 'here's the swagger spec file, load it into your favourite client" makes much mroe sense to me.. rather than maintaining an embeded copy of another app..
15:45 kivilahtio_ which is not easy for a linux-newbie
15:45 tcohen I think we should move the swagger-ui stuff somewhere else for now, I proposed kohadevbox already, so it is ready for QA people to test
15:45 cait can we agree to say that the swagger... spec? conf? is the documentation?
15:45 cait that you use with a tool?
15:45 ashimema if we also put on the same page a few links out to some popular swagger cleints.. all the better.
15:46 kivilahtio_ cait: yes
15:46 tcohen and focus on the design decisions and technicall stuff that needs to be addressed right now
15:46 cait what#s the right term?
15:46 kivilahtio_ ashimema: that is a good idea
15:46 jajm deploying swagger ui will not be that easy, changes have be made in it for the authentication  (bug 1392)
15:46 cait #idea add a wiki page with different alternative UIs
15:46 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1392 major, P3, ---, paul.poulain, CLOSED FIXED, Card number does not save with autoMemberNum turned on
15:46 jajm 13920
15:46 Joubu bug 13920
15:46 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=13920 new feature, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , API authentication system - proposal
15:47 cait #info Swagger UI has been changed for authentication
15:47 ashimema ok.. other stuff then..
15:47 jajm and i don't think there are alternative UI that understand the swagger spec, but maybe i'm wrong
15:47 ashimema So.. am I right in thinking robin has built packages fro a point in time release of Mojolicious and Mojolicious::Plugin::Swagger2?
15:47 cait #info the documentation is in the swagger specs - can be inspected using tools
15:48 kivilahtio_ jajm: that is a good point
15:48 ashimema jajm..
15:48 kivilahtio_ it is not easy to deploy it
15:48 ashimema lol...
15:48 kivilahtio_ :)
15:48 cait ok, you lost me here :)
15:48 kivilahtio_ but we can continue
15:48 kivilahtio_ I think we can just write a wiki page to do that
15:49 ashimema jajm: swagger-codegen, postman, httpinspector..
15:49 kivilahtio_ and tcohen can set up a devbox
15:49 cait can i get a volunteer to add the ui in/out thing to the wiki as something to be worked out?
15:49 ashimema they all buld you a client form aswagger spec..
15:49 kivilahtio_ ashimema: how about the Koha authentication?
15:49 jajm ashimema, robin has backported the existing package of Mojolicious for wheezy, but created a new package for Swagger2
15:49 cait i'd rather hae another volunteer than tcohen - rms are super busy
15:49 kivilahtio_ ashimema: you need to tweak the tool because Koha cannot use a standard basic auth
15:49 ashimema that's another issue I have with this..
15:49 kivilahtio_ or digest auth
15:49 ashimema what do you mean by.. the koha authentication.
15:49 cait is authentication a good topic to talk about  next hten?
15:50 jajm ashimema, ok so i was wrong :)
15:50 kivilahtio_ it is the next topic accoriding to the agenda
15:50 ashimema :)
15:50 tcohen we should try to organize the discussion a bit
15:50 cait yep
15:50 kivilahtio_ I am following :)
15:50 cait i am trying, but you guys are talking so fast :)
15:50 ashimema my sliht worry about mojo and it's swagger plugin is I konw how fast mojo moves..
15:50 tcohen heh
15:50 kivilahtio_ ashimema: I don't
15:50 ashimema way way way faster than packages generally do.
15:50 kivilahtio_ ashimema: please enlighten
15:51 kivilahtio_ ashimema: do we need to upgrade?
15:51 ashimema Mojolicious is 'breaking edge'.. meaning they introduce breaking changes in releases pretty often..
15:51 ashimema so we'll need to be rather carefull that we stick to certain versions of it and it's plugin..
15:51 khall that shouldn't be hard to do
15:51 tcohen ashimema: we rely on Jessie's Mojoliciousm so we expect to be able to keep the version for a while
15:51 ashimema just a maintanence thing.. i'm not voicing it as a bad thing (I have mojo apps here and love them)..
15:52 kivilahtio_ ashimema: point taken. So far we use Mojolicious because of the Swagger plugin
15:52 ashimema but for packages we'll need to be careful when debian upstream brings in a new mojo for example..
15:52 kivilahtio_ and other issues
15:52 ashimema as it's liveky to break our api
15:52 ashimema coolios..
15:52 ashimema in which case that's a non point :)
15:52 kivilahtio_ ashimema: the api is done 95% bu the Swagger-plugin
15:52 ashimema great
15:52 ashimema auth..
15:52 kivilahtio_ check it out :)
15:53 ashimema someone explain to me the koha authentication stuff you've built into it..
15:53 kivilahtio_ Bug 13920 - 9. API authentication system - Swagtenticator authentication - WIP
15:53 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=13920 new feature, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , API authentication system - proposal
15:53 cait #info Mojolicious is moving fact, need to keep an eye on new versions
15:53 ashimema I've not had a chance to read it yet..
15:53 kivilahtio_ read the commit message
15:53 cait authentication
15:53 kivilahtio_ Koha permission driven by the swagger specification
15:53 cait can we get a quick summary about hwo it works, jajm?
15:53 kivilahtio_ so you dont need to put anything related to authentication in the Controllers
15:53 cait or kivilahtio_?
15:53 wahanui i heard kivilahtio_ was going on a holiday this saturday so...
15:53 kivilahtio_ cait: we have two versions
15:54 kivilahtio_ I can explain
15:54 pianohacker (am here, bit late to introduce myself but hi)
15:54 kivilahtio_ First version /jajm) uses a Mojolicous route to authenticate user with the API-key, then permissions are checked in each Controllers action_handler seaprately, without touching Swagger at all
15:55 ashimema OK.. agree I don't like that..
15:55 ashimema auth should be handled before the controller
15:55 ashimema in the router as such
15:55 kivilahtio_ my version authenticates in the swagger-plugin. Permissions required are defined in the swagger.json and server implementator doesnt need to touch the authentication anyway
15:55 ashimema go on kivi
15:55 cait #info 2 versions for authentication rightnow
15:56 kivilahtio_ also permission for each route and action are definend in the Swagger2 definitions and are used by Koha to authenticate the user. So we dont need to document and implemetn permissions in separate places
15:56 cait jajm - do you agree with the description?
15:56 jajm ashimema, auth is handled before the controller in the first version, but doesn't check for Koha permissions
15:56 cait I wonder... do we need mroe specific permissions than koha has?
15:56 kivilahtio_ see the commit message here for better explanation and examples
15:56 kivilahtio_[…]ment.cgi?id=40592
15:56 cait be able to read a borrower but not update?
15:56 cait or similar
15:56 kivilahtio_ cait: it is inlcued
15:57 kivilahtio_ swagger.json allows setting different permissions for reeading (GET) and updateing (POS) and inserting (PUT) a borrower
15:57 ashimema hmmm..
15:57 cait how do i give someone access to the api?
15:57 ashimema I'm sort of seeing where your going with it..
15:57 kivilahtio_ or my version of it allows, this is not a Swagger spcification standard but an allowed extension to it
15:58 kivilahtio_ so we get behaviour from documentation
15:58 kivilahtio_ thus, we only update documentation and we get updated behaviour as well
15:58 kivilahtio_ no need to define the same thing in 5 places like with Zebra indexes
15:58 ashimema can you still work with permissions from within a controller though..
15:58 kivilahtio_ yues you can
15:58 ashimema k
15:58 cait #chair tcohen
15:58 huginn` Current chairs: cait tcohen
15:58 kivilahtio_ but no in the Swagger2 context, because that context is never given to the Controller
15:58 cait #chair ashimema
15:58 huginn` Current chairs: ashimema cait tcohen
15:59 cait please add #infos where you see fit
15:59 kivilahtio_ I think my feature is superior to anything I have ever made, but there is a disadvantage, where the Swagger2-plugin is subclassed by my KohaliciousSwagtenticator
15:59 kivilahtio_ the subclassing is quite extensive, because of the way the Swagger2-plugin is implemeted
16:00 kivilahtio_ I already emailed the author to make some modifications to make it more extendable
16:00 eskaaren joined #koha
16:00 kivilahtio_ but I doubt we will get help from him
16:00 ashimema he's a nice bloke..
16:00 ashimema ;)
16:00 kivilahtio_ I guess he would be nicer if money was involved instead of just good will
16:01 jajm kivilahtio_, he has been very helpful for me ;)
16:01 kivilahtio_ jajm: I try :)
16:01 kivilahtio_ I promised in the HAckFest
16:01 kivilahtio_ and I need to get this things sorted out. So I can start working on Serails improvement our Serials department really must have ASAP
16:01 ashimema verdict is out on authorization in sepc for me I'm afraid..
16:01 ashimema still mulling it over in my head
16:02 ashimema but I don't see it as a blocker
16:02 kivilahtio_ If we use Swagger, we should embrace it. Getting documentation and behaviour in one place is a huge benefit in telling others how to use our api
16:02 kivilahtio_ and w edon't "just forget" some things
16:03 ashimema so does your system throw meaningful errors when someone attempts to hit a route they don't have the right priviledges fro?
16:03 ashimema so does your system throw meaningful errors when someone attempts to hit a route they don't have the right priviledges for?
16:03 kivilahtio_ ashimema: yes, and it tells which permission they need. Pending they succeed at the API key authentication first
16:04 ashimema ok..
16:04 kivilahtio_ that is why I didBuugg 14437 - Refactor C4::Auth::haspermission() to Koha::Object and return better
16:04 kivilahtio_ errors.
16:04 ashimema I need to shoot off in a tic..
16:04 ashimema but that's sounds promising
16:04 kivilahtio_ It is aweeeesome
16:04 ashimema authentication wise.. I think we need to also enusre we can handle some other forms..
16:04 kivilahtio_ it is just a "tad" hard to maintain when upgrading Mojolicious and Swagger2-plugin
16:04 cait i am very sorry i have to go :(
16:04 ashimema I need to read into this API-Key stuff..
16:05 ashimema feels like we're re-inventing OAuth
16:05 kivilahtio_ ashimema: me too, this is not my strong point. And we should look into OAuth2.0 and just basic api_key authentication
16:05 cait tcohen will take over I hope - chairs are set
16:05 rocio joined #koha
16:05 tcohen no worries cait
16:05 kivilahtio_ I am just refactoring jmjm's authentication system to work better with Swagger2
16:05 ashimema OK.. for a 'nice' user experience with api development we should
16:05 cait please be good and have some great ideas/plans :)
16:05 ashimema use http basic auth (over https of course)
16:05 kivilahtio_ ashimema: also, my feature is easily extendable to support other types of authentiocations
16:05 ashimema this allows querying the API via curl
16:06 cait and action items to move things forward :)
16:06 cait left #koha
16:06 kivilahtio_ ashimema: well not easily extendable, but you see that each authentication type is encapsulatedin it's own subroutine, so just add them and mix
16:06 ashimema authentication and authorization should definitely be in two completely separate pieces of code
16:06 kivilahtio_ ashimema: they are
16:06 ashimema again.. withou hving read the code i can't comment
16:06 ashimema great..
16:06 ashimema so..
16:06 kivilahtio_ but under the sigular check in the swagger2-plugin extension
16:06 ashimema for me..
16:07 Joubu ashimema: do you think you could have a look at the code soon?
16:07 ashimema I want' Basic auth for api discoverability.. cookie inspection (for binding the the same cookie as we currently give out) and any tohers are nice extra's
16:07 ashimema but those two are my first priorities
16:07 kivilahtio_ yup
16:07 ashimema hopefulyl Joubu..
16:07 kivilahtio_ but could we still push this to master without those?
16:07 ashimema up to my ears at the minute as usual.. but this is important
16:08 Joubu you seem to have strong opinion on the code
16:08 kivilahtio_ ashimema: I agree
16:08 Joubu but the dev is already done
16:08 ashimema I think the cookie one is super important..
16:08 jajm ashimema, cookie ?
16:08 Joubu so if you have think to say... ;)
16:08 ashimema without it we can't use the api calls natively in koha
16:08 ashimema only for external apps
16:08 tcohen jajm: so we can hook angular to be more specific :-D
16:08 kivilahtio_ ashimema: Look like I have to implement that, because I need this from Koha :)
16:08 ashimema exactly :)
16:08 khall agreed
16:09 kivilahtio_ what does hooking angular has to do with this?
16:09 ashimema also.. are we using mojo sessions calls anywhere?
16:09 kivilahtio_ ashimema: nope
16:09 ashimema if we are we're creating duplicate user cookies..
16:09 ashimema great..
16:09 ashimema tick
16:09 khall angular + rest = good
16:09 jajm i feel that cookie and rest api should not appear in the same phrases...
16:09 jajm -s
16:10 kivilahtio_ jajm: I was hoping to use the REST API to augment existing Koha features
16:10 ashimema kivi++
16:10 kivilahtio_ thus we need to share the cookie-authentication
16:10 khall myself as well
16:10 ashimema exactly
16:10 kivilahtio_ ashimema: why we should use Mojo::Session calls?
16:10 ashimema jajm.. I know exactly where your coming from..
16:10 ashimema we shouldn't use Mojo::Session calls ;)
16:10 tcohen jajm: think search results, updating holdability of items on the resultset, using ajax to make rendering faster
16:11 kivilahtio_ I could easily add existing authentication mechanisms from C4::Auth to the Swagtenticator?
16:11 ashimema though that's more of a personal thought..
16:11 ashimema Mojo::Sessions bascialyl create a session cookie..
16:11 ashimema to be properly restul we don't want a session cookie.. just an auth
16:11 kivilahtio_ ashimema: so we should use the Koha CGISESSID instead
16:11 ashimema yes..
16:11 ashimema I beleive so..
16:11 ashimema or eventally move to Mojo::Session..
16:12 kivilahtio_ but we need the CGISESSID as well to work with Koha
16:12 ashimema but not have both as they'll get confusing fast having two cookies that in effect handle the same information ;)
16:12 kivilahtio_ I can add the CGISESSID tomorrow to the Swagtenticator
16:12 ashimema all we want to use the koha CGISESSID cookie for is authentication.
16:12 kivilahtio_ this will help me a lot as well in testing :)
16:12 ashimema jajm.. that's what makes it restfull.
16:12 tcohen we *need* to reuse CGISESSID if we were to use the RESTful api from Koha's UI
16:13 ashimema restfull means you send all you need with every request to get a response.. including Authentication..
16:13 kivilahtio_ but somebody should take another look at the propsed authentication system
16:13 kivilahtio_ I mean the api-key system
16:13 kivilahtio_ and how does REST do auth?
16:13 ashimema so.. if we have a auth fallback system.. username:password in the url will work.. or the cookie will work.. or an OAuth token will work.
16:13 kivilahtio_ you need to hae the api-key/signature there as well
16:13 ashimema in effect they're all jsut mediums for the same data..
16:13 ashimema a signatrue saying..
16:14 ashimema it'#s me
16:14 pianohacker kivilahtio_: The API-key system looks good, but why the list of API keys on the OPAC?
16:14 kivilahtio_ ashimema: could you make a document on how you think the Koha API should authenticate, in addition to the GCISESSID
16:14 kivilahtio_ pianohacker: ask jmjm
16:14 kivilahtio_ pianohacker: ask jajm
16:14 ashimema right..
16:14 ashimema i really need to had off..
16:15 jajm pianohacker, each user should be able to create api keys, don't they ?
16:15 kivilahtio_ we know you don't want to :)
16:15 ashimema I'll read the minutes when I get back and make any notes on he wiki.
16:15 ashimema sorry chaps.. daughter is waiting at school for pickup ;)
16:15 kivilahtio_ ashimema: PM me!
16:15 kivilahtio_ ashimema: fiorst things first. thanks for feedback
16:15 ashimema jajm..
16:15 pianohacker jajm: general public users?
16:15 ashimema a user should just use their credentials to login..
16:15 kivilahtio_ pianohacker: any registered Koha user
16:15 tcohen jajm: creating an API key works for using the API explicitly, but what about using it from the UI?
16:15 ashimema no need for a seperate api key
16:16 kivilahtio_ ashimema: go get your daughter
16:16 tcohen in the form of AJAX calls?
16:16 ashimema bye
16:16 tcohen brb
16:16 kivilahtio_ bye!
16:16 kivilahtio_ I think jajm's idea that every registered borrower can get their own API keys is superb
16:17 pianohacker this seems like something that has a lot of potential to confuse the general public. And aren't API keys only really useful for entities completely outside of Koha?
16:17 kivilahtio_ we just limit what they can do with Koha borrower permissions
16:17 kivilahtio_ pianohacker: that is true as well, we could have a borrowercategory "AUTOMAT" which get this API view displayed
16:17 pianohacker if each borrower can create their own API keys, then the API keys are pointless, no?
16:17 kivilahtio_ but then again
16:18 kivilahtio_ I see  no harm in presenting the view to everybody
16:18 pianohacker as the borrower can just authenticate normally
16:18 kivilahtio_ pianohacker: he can use his key like a ssh-key to more easily authenticate
16:18 kivilahtio_ pianohacker: or maybe one of our patrons wants to make a mobile phone app to use our library?
16:18 tcohen as ashimema is a plus, but the basic authentication mechanisms are mandatory to be implemented for the feature to be useful
16:18 jajm pianohacker, some borrowers could be interested in using this api outside of the opac
16:19 kivilahtio_ pianohacker: giving the keys out publicly is a great idea and just another way of authenticating
16:19 kivilahtio_ tcohen: I will implement the CGISESSID tomorrow
16:19 kivilahtio_ or this week, this is a top riority for me
16:19 tcohen s/is/ said, is/
16:19 pianohacker true, but that raises a very tricky point
16:19 tcohen kivilahtio_: great
16:19 kivilahtio_ I just need confirmation that the Swagtenticator is a good idea
16:19 kivilahtio_ so I wont spend another 3 days for nothing :)
16:20 tcohen maybe we could rename it :-D
16:20 kivilahtio_ hahaha
16:20 jajm i mean, i use google docs and google docs make some ajax calls for me, but sometimes i want to do something more, and this is possible because google give me access to the api
16:20 kivilahtio_ I have a sound reasoning for the name :)
16:20 pianohacker someone developing a mobile app like you mentioned might want to allow patrons to log into their accounts within that app, right?
16:20 pianohacker check fines, checkouts, etc etc
16:20 Joubu Could it be possible to have a wiki page (or whatever!) as an overview of 1/ what is done 2/ what should be done 3/ what should be modified (why)? Written by the different authors of this discussion
16:21 kivilahtio_ I have some post-its lying around :)
16:21 kivilahtio_ tcohen: would it make you happy if I renamed it?
16:21 pianohacker if the borrower in question can just generate an API key, there's no way the library can revoke access to the app for bad behavior
16:21 kivilahtio_ Koha::Rest::V1::Plugins::TomasCohenAutenticator
16:22 tcohen :-P
16:22 jajm pianohacker, this is a good point
16:22 kivilahtio_ pianohacker: if the account is debarred, then no API keys
16:23 kivilahtio_ pianohacker: the API key is just a substitute for the CGISESSID-authentication. all same borrower restirctions apply. Tehre is a permission handling mechanisms here
16:23 tcohen i'd say that the use case the api-key mechanism is interesting, with some edge cases that might be tricky
16:23 pianohacker well, yes, but your ability to check out books shouldn't necessarily be linked to your possibly being a bad API customer :)
16:23 kivilahtio_ pianohacker: good point
16:23 pianohacker regardless, though, kivilahtio_, I like swagtenticator, it seems like the cleaner option
16:23 tcohen i need to leave for a meeting
16:24 tcohen kivilahtio_: can u chair
16:24 kivilahtio_ pianohacker: bless you
16:24 kivilahtio_ tcohen: I have absolutely no idea how to
16:24 tcohen #chair kivilahtio_
16:24 huginn` Current chairs: ashimema cait kivilahtio_ tcohen
16:24 kivilahtio_ but I think we could make a document about issues
16:24 kivilahtio_ and see what we need and where to go
16:24 gaetan_B bye
16:24 Joubu so, actions?
16:25 kivilahtio_ I think 13799 can be pushed to master, but not recommended for production use
16:25 kivilahtio_ the other related bugs are not so functional and lack authentication
16:25 kivilahtio_ there are some bigger issues there
16:25 tcohen what about ashimema's suggestion to strip swagger-ui out?
16:25 Joubu I think you are the one :)
16:25 kivilahtio_ mainly Authentication is critical to make any other features
16:26 tcohen bbl
16:26 kivilahtio_ tcohen: I think it is a solid point, but we should provide easy way for QA peeps to test the API
16:26 kivilahtio_ so lets pull out Swagger UI nad add wiki pages for instructions
16:27 jajm tcohen, i think we can remove swaggerui for now, if it really blocks the integration, but it would be really useful for testing
16:27 kivilahtio_ #vote Pull Swagger UI out and create a wiki-page for instructions on how to deploy various API inspectors.
16:27 kivilahtio_ #yes
16:27 Joubu who? :)
16:28 kivilahtio_ no idea
16:28 kivilahtio_ it is many months since i did this
16:28 jajm a wiki page ? or a separate bug ?
16:28 kivilahtio_ jajm: hmmm, a separate bug might be better
16:28 kivilahtio_ jajm: but dont we have already a ton of separate bugs?
16:28 kivilahtio_ can i cancel this vote?
16:28 Joubu #endvote
16:29 kivilahtio_ #vote Pull Swagger UI out and create a bug for instructions on how to deploy various API inspectors.
16:29 kivilahtio_ better?
16:29 wahanui i think better is "take cover." :)
16:29 kivilahtio_ #yes kivilahtio
16:29 jajm little separate bugs are better than big bug imo
16:29 kivilahtio_ #kivilahtio, yes
16:29 kivilahtio_ jajm: I think we wont have so many instructions
16:29 kivilahtio_ jajm: we have instructions for Swagger2 UI and maybe postman
16:30 kivilahtio_ they all fot there nicesly as separate commits
16:30 Joubu kivilahtio_: I think a vote is not needed
16:30 kivilahtio_ Joubu: I didn't want to chair :)
16:30 Joubu we need actions for the next steps
16:30 kivilahtio_ #endvote
16:30 jajm i can split bug 13799
16:30 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=13799 new feature, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , Add base for building RESTful API
16:30 kivilahtio_ jajm: ok
16:30 kivilahtio_ I need to add Nginx and Hypnotoad as  a bug
16:31 jajm kivilahtio_, the bug is already created
16:31 kivilahtio_ you did it for me?
16:31 kivilahtio_ that is nice :)
16:31 jajm bug 14448n
16:31 Joubu I reiterate my wish: I really would like more communication and have a better visibility on what is going on. Who is working on what, what is done, what should be changed, etc.
16:31 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14448 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Hypnotoad and Nginx config for REST API
16:31 jajm bug 14448
16:31 Joubu with the bug numbers
16:31 Joubu I cannot do it
16:32 Joubu and I think several people should do it, collaborate, you know?
16:32 kivilahtio_ Joubu: to facilitate better visibility we need a better project manangement tool than Bugzilla
16:33 Joubu let's start with mail and a wiki page...
16:33 kivilahtio_ Joubu: I can recommend Redmine, I just dpeloyed a redmine installation to serve the Finnish Koha-community
16:33 jajm a wiki page seems good :)
16:34 kivilahtio_ we already have 4 peeps working on Koha, doing migrations and testing stuff
16:34 kivilahtio_ it's cool :)
16:34 kivilahtio_ 4 technicals
16:34 kivilahtio_ or maybe a google doc?
16:34 Joubu kivilahtio_, jajm: are you willing to start it ?
16:34 kivilahtio_ anywayu
16:34 kivilahtio_ I can start it
16:34 Joubu with maybe ashimema
16:35 Joubu thanks
16:35 kivilahtio_ I have a lot of ideas and I think I have a quite a clear vision of what is happening
16:35 Joubu #action kivilahtio_ will initiate a wiki page as an overview of the REST work
16:35 Joubu something like that
16:35 kivilahtio_ #yes
16:35 kivilahtio_ #vite, yes :)
16:35 kivilahtio_ #vote, yes :)
16:36 kivilahtio_ who want to stay informed?
16:36 Joubu And I think you can end the meeting
16:36 kivilahtio_ #endmeeting
16:36 Topic for #koha is now Happy Birthday tcohen
16:36 huginn` Meeting ended Wed Jun 24 16:36:28 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
16:36 huginn` Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-06-24-15.04.html
16:36 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]5-06-24-15.04.txt
16:36 huginn` Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]24-15.04.log.html
16:36 jajm kivilahtio_, send a mail to koha-devel when the page is created so everyone can participate
16:36 Joubu unless ...
16:36 Joubu too late :)
16:36 Joubu unless someone else wants to talk about something specific
16:36 kivilahtio_ I think we have extended our welcome
16:37 kivilahtio_ I need to go home, its 19:37 here
16:37 Joubu ok, too many topics, too long, as usual
16:37 kivilahtio_ And I need to write the REST API doc
16:37 kivilahtio_ we got some nice discussion
16:37 Joubu thanks kivilahtio_ for this awesome chairing ;)
16:37 kivilahtio_ Joubu: I am to please
16:38 kivilahtio_ btw
16:38 kivilahtio_ before everybody scrams
16:38 kivilahtio_ does anybody know what is happening regarding elasticSearch and Rancor (pianohacker?)
16:38 Joubu it seems it's already done
16:38 kivilahtio_ nice
16:39 pianohacker elasticsearch is, to my knowledge, moving slowly, have not heard any updates in a while
16:39 kivilahtio_ pianohacker: how about Rancor?
16:39 wahanui i think Rancor is bug 11559
16:39 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11559 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jweaver, Failed QA , Professional cataloger's interface
16:39 Joubu Rancor been signed off and failed qa today, it's moving :)
16:39 reiveune bye
16:39 pianohacker rancor is submitted and aside from some small issues (latest comments on the bug) is moving, yeah
16:39 reiveune left #koha
16:39 kivilahtio_ so it is actually in the QA, which is super awesome
16:40 kivilahtio_ I might be able to get our librarians test it, if that is needed
16:40 pianohacker that would be spectacular kivilahtio_
16:40 Joubu kivilahtio_: it's always needed :)
16:40 kivilahtio_ not promising anything. Lately our superlibrarian has been shifting to do translations and maybe she can learn how to apply patches
16:41 kivilahtio_ that would be awesome for me too
16:41 Joubu I have to go, see you #koha
16:41 kivilahtio_ c u Joubu
16:42 pianohacker kivilahtio_: there's miles of test plan, even testing a few things is helpful :)
16:42 kivilahtio_ ok
16:42 jajm i need to go too, bye everyone!
16:42 kivilahtio_ jajm: you too!
16:42 kivilahtio_ pianohacker: Our cataloguers are drooling over it. HAve been drooling for quite soe time already.
16:42 kivilahtio_ pianohacker: I am sure if we get it deployed, we get testers
16:43 kivilahtio_ but it is very reassuring to know that there is one single place to get the "official" version now
16:44 pianohacker kivilahtio_: and the current plan is once we've verified that the small changes the Rancor patches make to the core of Koha don't break anything, to bring it in as experimental code
16:44 pianohacker (like the API)
16:44 kivilahtio_ ok
16:44 kivilahtio_ I am afraid it is not THE Koha REST API
16:44 kivilahtio_ but  a Rancor API
16:44 kivilahtio_ nothing wrong with that
16:45 kivilahtio_ but I would appreaciate we having only one API
16:45 pianohacker oh, no, sorry
16:45 pianohacker I meant that the intent was to verify that it didn't break existing code, but bring in the core functionality as experimental
16:45 pianohacker in a similar fashion to the REST API :)
16:46 ashimema can I make a suggestiong that rather than creating yet another API page on the wiki..
16:46 ashimema we clean up that existing one
16:46 ashimema I'm happy to start it
16:46 kivilahtio_ ashimema: can you give me the url. And I will add my description
16:46 kivilahtio_ then you can clean it? I promised Joubu you know
16:46 ashimema[…]/New_REST_API_RFC
16:47 ashimema I'de been adding to it.. but no-one was replying..
16:47 kivilahtio_ ok I'll start churning before the coals burn out
16:47 ashimema what I'd love to see is the page tideid up and deifnativel
16:47 kivilahtio_ that because the wiki is such a crappy system of colalborating
16:47 ashimema and discussion moved to the discussion tab (or here ;) )
16:47 ashimema indeed
16:47 kivilahtio_ can we even get email notifications if the wiki is updated?
16:47 ashimema yup
16:48 NateC_ joined #koha
16:48 kivilahtio_ ok, I need  to get those :)
16:48 ashimema though I'm not sure if it's enabled
16:48 kivilahtio_ ashimema: so how come you have experience with Mojolicious already?
16:48 kivilahtio_ you muist be pretty hard-core Perl monger to work willingly with Perl?
16:48 ashimema
16:48 kivilahtio_ I mean if I was to start a web service I wouldnt pick Perl as the language
16:48 ashimema we're writing a reading list solution
16:49 kivilahtio_ not to bash it
16:49 ashimema closed source at the minute
16:49 ashimema I'm working on getting it opened up.
16:49 ashimema and the choice of perl was obviose
16:49 kivilahtio_ Well I must say I program Perl the best of all languages, but I design Java :)
16:49 ashimema we have 4 decent perl devs in the company.. and one dev that splits his time between perl and php
16:49 ashimema thus.. perl made sense ;)
16:49 kivilahtio_ I don't even know perldoc having worked with perl for 4years now
16:50 pianohacker can I gently suggest that we move on to other topics?
16:50 ashimema meetings over aint it?
16:50 kivilahtio_ pianohacker: do we have a topic? the meeting is over
16:50 pianohacker oh, sorry
16:50 kivilahtio_ :)
16:50 pianohacker ignore the pianohacker
16:50 kivilahtio_ don't worry, we will :)
16:50 ashimema I'd like to learn python or get a better grip with JS
16:51 kivilahtio_ I read a good boock about JS
16:51 pianohacker wow, I completely missed the entire endmeeting thing.
16:51 ashimema js seems to be the fastest mover these days.. with it hitting client and server so often..
16:51 kivilahtio_ Object Oriented JAvascript
16:51 ashimema the MEAN stack is cool
16:51 kivilahtio_ but it wasnt that great
16:51 kivilahtio_ I was hoping to do better OO- with JS but apparently we need to wait for ECMAscript 6 or something
16:51 ashimema having js for both server and client seemed nice
16:51 kivilahtio_ Windows has their own JS variant?!
16:51 kivilahtio_ it is Open source
16:51 kivilahtio_ I agree
16:52 ashimema this compiled js stuff sounds interesting too.
16:52 ashimema so code in C, compile to JS
16:52 kivilahtio_ If JS would be a more complete programming language, i would swith to JS on backend and fronmtend
16:52 ashimema anywho..
16:52 ashimema I must get some more work done today
16:52 kivilahtio_ ok
16:52 kivilahtio_ take care!
16:52 pianohacker are we pushing the discussions of gbsd and terminology to the second half due to time constraints?
16:53 kivilahtio_ I think everybody left already
16:53 khall indeed ; )
16:53 kivilahtio_ We spent 1.75h speacking of the REST API
16:53 pianohacker that's what I figured, just confirmin'
17:04 Joubu arf sorry pianohacker, it's my bad, I asked kivilahtio_ to end the meeting
17:04 Joubu But I was under the impression that everybody was sleeping!
17:04 kivilahtio_ I just pulled the trigger,  with no hesitation
17:04 kivilahtio_ I trust Joubu
17:04 Joubu and... 1h45 is a bit too looong :)
17:04 pianohacker Joubu: no, that's reasonable, I just completely missed that it happenned
17:04 kivilahtio_ agreed
17:05 Joubu too many topics. With need to scedule another one soon
17:05 pianohacker Joubu: there is the second half
17:05 Joubu the other topics are really interesting also. But maybe we need to prepare them a bit
17:05 Joubu to try to be more... organised? :)
17:06 pianohacker heh. I think the API is just a gigantic hot-button topic
17:06 kivilahtio_ pianohacker: tha API is so cool
17:07 pianohacker I think it's great. I worry about the complexity of mojolicious, but it seems we're getting benefits from it
17:10 Marthyna joined #koha
17:12 Marthyna Buenas tardes
17:12 Marthyna un saludo desde Colombia
17:15 Marthyna Tengo inquietudes frente a la utilización del software Koha, es posible que desde esta zona mediática me puedan colaborar?
17:16 S_Polka joined #koha
17:22 wnickc joined #koha
17:23 tcohen hola Marthyna
17:24 * tcohen thinks we need gmcharlt with his google translate skills
17:26 gmcharlt er, surely Argentinian and Colombian Spanish isn't /that/ different! ;)
17:27 tcohen gmcharlt: :-P
17:35 drojf joined #koha
17:40 pianohacker hi gmcharlt :)
17:40 pianohacker @later tell dcook happy MDT birthday!
17:40 huginn` pianohacker: The operation succeeded.
17:41 kivilahtio_ ashimema: I threw up this "Progress report 2015.06.24 @ Koha developer IRC meeting"
17:41 kivilahtio_ @[…]/New_REST_API_RFC
17:41 huginn` kivilahtio_: I've exhausted my database of quotes
18:00 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 13014: (QA followup) have new warnings tested <[…]0d9fee3a8cb3cd2cb> / Bug 13014: DBRev <[…]90cf661405a97cf9c> / Bug 13014: [QA Follow-up] Few typos in cronjob <[…]fdbd5ebabeb6d20ca
18:16 Joubu See you #koha, I won't be around for some days
18:50 NateC joined #koha
18:51 kidclamp joined #koha
18:58 tcohen bye #koha
19:00 nengard left #koha
19:44 indradg joined #koha
19:45 cdickinson joined #koha
19:46 wnickc joined #koha
19:58 kidclamp joined #koha
20:13 cait joined #koha
20:40 rangi morning
20:40 drojf hi rangi
20:41 cait hi drojf hi rangi
20:52 burdsjm joined #koha
20:52 burdsjm Does anyone know how far away is itemized fines via SIP?
20:53 cait i think it's not in development
20:53 cait afaik
20:53 cait you mean paying one specific fine out of a list?
20:53 burdsjm ok
20:53 burdsjm yeah
20:54 burdsjm We use envisionware cash registers and all we get is a lump sum fine payment
20:54 cait you could ask on the list
20:54 burdsjm Ok sounds good
20:55 cait maybe someone is owrking on it or would be interested to work sth out together
20:55 talljoy joined #koha
20:56 alvet joined #koha
21:01 drojf when is the other part of the meeting? now? in an hour?
21:03 rangi no idea
21:03 jcamins Myshkin says now is for ear scratching.
21:04 * drojf scratches ear
21:04 drojf yeah, that felt right :)
21:04 jcamins I thought he was saying "hi," but now I'm pretty sure he's just demanding ear scratching from the world at large.
21:07 drojf 22utc, in an hour
21:07 cait drojf: midnight
21:07 drojf one hour of ear scratching :)
21:07 cait i wuld not recommend that
21:07 drojf did you just insult my ear? or my scratches?
21:14 mtj hey #koha
21:14 rangi hey mtj
21:15 mtj rangi: i think i fixed up my 3.16.x stuff ok
21:15 * mtj sent u a mail
21:15 rangi sweet
21:16 drojf .creditcard tld 139,90 €. don't know why that site is still open, but how about
21:16 drojf .sweet does not seem to be available, but .cool is
21:16 rangi heh
21:17 mtj rangi:  does the regex seem OK to you?
21:17 mtj[…]559d6bd72ccf7d44d
21:17 mtj unless $in->{'template_name'} =~ m/^[$safe_chars]+\.(tt$|tmpl$)/ig;
21:18 mtj (tt$|tmpl$) was the change
21:18 rangi yeah that should work fine
21:18 rangi for 3.14/3.16
21:18 mtj cool
21:19 * indradg missed the first dev meetin
21:20 indradg :(
21:20 mtj thanks for checking our branches/commits, rangi
21:21 mtj hoya indradg, you can always catch the 2nd meeting :0)
21:22 mtj hiya even
21:23 indradg mtj: planning to... provided a) i can stay awake b) the spouse doesn't kill me
21:23 mtj lol, sleep or death
21:24 drojf now that i started to pay attention, i'm becoming more fond of the idea of trashing the paid support list
21:24 mtj i read the meeting scrollback before,  some interesting info for me
21:25 mtj yes, i think me too even drojf
21:26 rangi and you dont even get all the offlist emails :)
21:26 drojf i know :/
21:26 mtj ..or a really obvious page telling vendors to not use the page, as a requirement
21:27 mtj and if they do.. they are reaaaally stupid!
21:28 mtj yeah..i cant even imagine the off-mail stuff
21:28 drojf i don't think they care. neither do the people that made the listing a requirement
21:29 mtj sorry s/vendors/tenders/
21:29 drojf they will change it to "must be on the internet archive copy of the paid support list"
21:30 mtj s/tenders/tenderers/
21:31 rangi heh
21:31 mtj a page for tenderers... "please dont use the list as a requirement for selection - its bad!"
21:32 mtj we could all emails them, with a link to that page
21:33 mtj all Koha SJWs, unite!!
21:33 * cait reads bck in the meeting logs and gets lost again
21:35 mtj cait, there were a few conversations going at once, huh :)
21:35 cait yeah ... that's a nice descrpition
21:35 cait and i did have to go in the middle of it - not ideal
21:36 mtj the REST stuff is exciting
21:36 drojf funny thing is, i found a small bottle of jägermeister. (the only thing i got was the booze part)
21:38 mtj i think the 'list problem' will only get worse... as the project becomes more popular and successful
21:40 drojf it wouldn't be very complicated to just ask for some evidence of community involvement when you look for a service provider.
21:43 mtj but, for some people looking for Koha skills, the list *is* very handy :(
21:43 cait it's also a good way to point people to another place they can help
21:43 cait when we can'<t
21:43 mtj yes, removing the list would be a genuine loss too :(
21:44 mtj it does provide a bunch of really handy info
21:44 pianohacker has the proposal to throw up our hands and remove the moderation been floated?
21:44 mtj perhaps we could try to move the list from somehow?
21:45 mtj i cant think where to move it too, tho
21:46 rangi i was thinking the wiki
21:46 mtj hmm, i think it would get spammed like the wiki
21:46 mtj aah, yes good one chris :)
21:47 rangi it makes it much less official
21:47 mtj people would still have to register for the wiki = good
21:47 rangi yep
21:47 mtj thats actually pretty good!
21:47 drojf i see edit wars
21:48 indradg lets for a moment look at this from the "other" angle - what does being on this list give me as a service provider, that a well designed and informative site on Koha and using social media effectively does not?
21:48 pianohacker drojf: vendors removing each other?
21:48 drojf pianohacker: wanna bet?
21:48 drojf indradg: i was told three times i was found via that list. and i am on that for like… 3 months or something
21:48 mtj indradg:  the page is not for the service providers.. its for the users!
21:49 * cait nods
21:49 drojf so it is actually used by people looking for help. not only those sending me tons of junk mail about student loans Oo
21:49 cait also a neutral way to point poeple to other options if our services are not a good fit
21:49 indradg mtj: i would buy that argument, unless like today / yesterday we saw a deluge of "sign me up" requests
21:50 drojf i bet they all went there because cait told them too
21:50 drojf so cait has to point them to my website directly in the future :P
21:50 indradg heh
21:50 mtj indradg:  of course vendors want to abuse the list.. but it exists for the users only
21:51 mtj give helpful info to people about Koha
21:52 eythian_ joined #koha
21:53 mtj drojf:  i think there might be some small edit wars, but i think people will do the right thing on the wiki
21:56 mtj the wiki admins could always intervene with editing, if things got silly
21:57 drojf move the fun from anwering stupid emails to editing stupid articles? i'm sure they will be delighted ;)
21:57 cait i will ge tsome water ,brb
21:58 mtj drojf: its an upgrade, i think
21:58 * indradg just realizes that signing up as wiki curator may have been a bit short-sighted ;-)
21:59 drojf probably worth a try. as long as it does not spread to the other wiki pages
21:59 drojf heh
22:01 drojf maybe we could have something like "earn permanent wiki editing rights by submitting one helpful addition/fix to an article"
22:01 drojf there are a lot that need updates :P
22:01 cait or marking as obsoleted... implemented differently etc.
22:01 cait should we start the meeting?
22:01 cait can someone at least co-chair?
22:02 cait it's dangeorus if it's only the tired german and i fall asleep :)
22:02 pianohacker I'm heading out right now, but preemptive +1 for vendor list on wiki and terminology in coding standards
22:02 drojf i'm part of the falling asleep group
22:02 cait i think vendor list is not on today :)
22:02 drojf someone from a more awake time zone maybe ;)
22:03 cait someone from the first meeting would be good too
22:03 cait hm.
22:04 drojf tumbleweed.gif
22:04 wnickc joined #koha
22:04 cait yeah feels like it :)
22:04 cait #startmeeting Developer IRC meeting 24 June 2015 - part 2
22:04 huginn` Meeting started Wed Jun 24 22:04:44 2015 UTC.  The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at
22:04 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
22:04 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Developer IRC meeting 24 June 2015 - part 2)
22:04 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'developer_irc_meeting_24_june_2015___part_2'
22:04 cait #topic Introductions
22:04 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
22:04 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Developer IRC meeting 24 June 2015 - part 2)
22:04 cait please introduce yourself with #info
22:05 indradg #info Indranil Das Gupta
22:05 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen, one eye still open
22:05 rangi sorry, got a couple of issues to deal with my apologies
22:05 eythian_ #info Robin Sheat, Catalyst IT, Wellington
22:05 rangi dont add any more frameworks while im away
22:05 drojf lol
22:05 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ Germany
22:06 cait ok, moving on :)
22:06 wnickc #info Nick Clemens, VOKAL Consortium, Vermont
22:06 cait pauses
22:06 cait today's agenda is:
22:06 cait #link[…]ting_24_June_2015
22:06 cait let's move on
22:06 cait #topic RM 3.22 comments
22:06 Topic for #koha is now RM 3.22 comments (Meeting topic: Developer IRC meeting 24 June 2015 - part 2)
22:06 cait tcohen isn't here :)
22:07 cait he complained that we keep him pretty busy pushing things
22:07 mtj # info Mason James, NZ
22:07 cait that's what i remember ;)
22:07 cait he also pointed out the good work on the security releases
22:08 cait he is trying to get through the bigger ones, but they take a bit longer
22:08 cait #info the RM considers 'normal' for patches on the PQA list to stay there for more than 2 weeks, if you think something needs to be pushed faster, please contact the RM personally
22:09 cait nengard has been working on the help files updates and is mostly done - patches should go into master and 3.20
22:09 cait anything else?
22:10 cait i am going to move on
22:10 cait #topic RESTful API implementation
22:10 Topic for #koha is now RESTful API implementation (Meeting topic: Developer IRC meeting 24 June 2015 - part 2)
22:10 cait things got a bit wild there
22:10 cait #link[…]_bug.cgi?id=13920
22:10 huginn` Bug 13920: new feature, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , API authentication system - proposal
22:10 cait #link[…]_bug.cgi?id=13799
22:10 huginn` Bug 13799: new feature, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , Add base for building RESTful API
22:11 cait kivilahtio_: wrote up some comments about the first meeting on the rfc page
22:11 cait #link[…]/New_REST_API_RFC
22:11 cait does anyone talk about something specifically?
22:11 mtj awesome info ^
22:12 cait ok, one of the points discussed was the inclusion of the Swagger UI in the base patch
22:12 bag #info brendan gallagher bywater
22:13 mtj "Swagger UI After a heated debate in the IRC meeting, we decided to let go of Swagger UI as a part of the Koha git history, and instead move it to a new bug which helps people deploy API inspectors, other than just Swagger UI."
22:13 cait yeah, i'd like to suggest a wiki page instead linked to bugs
22:14 cait bugzilla can get a bit complicated for documenting setup steps quite quickly
22:14 cait but generally moving it out of the patch seems like a good idea
22:14 mtj yes, indeed
22:15 cait another thing discussed was the way of documenting
22:15 cait i thik the conclusion was that the documentation is in the code itself - in the swagger specs
22:15 mtj Olli mentioned using 'redmine' for documenting, in last meeting
22:15 cait redmine is a full scale project management / bug tracking system
22:15 cait someone would have to set up and maintain it
22:16 mtj aah, sounds heavy
22:16 eythian_ Yeah, discouraging the use of 50 different things that all do a similar job would be good.
22:16 cait we are using it at work, but I am not sure it gives us something that bugzilla doesn't have
22:16 mtj trello could be a good tool, for that?
22:16 eythian_ mtj: it's proprietary, remember.
22:16 cait there are lots of good tools
22:17 rangi s/trello/taiga|libreboard/
22:17 mtj aah, i didnt know eythian_
22:17 cait but people need to use them :)
22:17 rangi the thing to remember is that we have a really active .. one of the more active opensource projects in the world
22:17 rangi with one of the lowest barriers to becoming a dev
22:17 eythian_ cait: no they don't
22:17 rangi what we have now works really well
22:17 eythian_ wizzyrea was going to have a go at setting up taiga, but has probably been too busy.
22:17 rangi improving it is always good
22:18 rangi but i dont think we want to forget the workflow we have no actually works really well
22:18 rangi now even
22:18 cait yep
22:18 cait and having something very similar than bugzilla parallel... sounds a bit nightmarish
22:18 rangi i can see having something for the devs to use
22:18 mtj sorry, i took the convo a bit offtrack there ^
22:18 cait i think they agreed to have the rfc api wiki page updated for now
22:18 rangi to coordinate big tasks
22:19 rangi but i dont think you want to get people having to report things in 2 places etc
22:19 * rangi goes back to doing translation updates
22:19 cait #idea think about ways for devs to coordinate big tasks better
22:20 cait aonther longer discussion was had about the topic authentication
22:20 cait it seems we have 2 implementations right now
22:20 cait i gota bit lost there, so recommend reading the logs for more detailled information
22:20 cait one thing that was pointed out was that it should suppord our current cookie
22:20 eythian_ is there a link to the previous meeting logs anywhere?
22:20 cait so we can use the api inside of koha i think
22:20 cait i will put one on the agenda after th emeeting
22:21 cait but of curse everything is in the logs
22:21 cait #info links to logs:[…]5-06-24#i_1693798
22:21 eythian_ ta
22:22 cait i hope the wiki page gets cleaned up a little - please put questions and notes there too!
22:22 cait i also requested that the api has to be easy to setup and test
22:22 mtj does mojo have  a perl 5.20 requirement?
22:23 cait to avoid the problems we have for example with getting sip patches integrated - the harder it is to use, the harder it is to get in
22:23 cait mtj: I don't know - eythian maybe?
22:24 eythian_ not sure
22:24 mtj ahh.. ' which are currently 5.20.x and 5.18.x. '
22:24 cait mtj: coudl you put that on the wiki maybe?
22:24 eythian_ mtj: what are you quoting there?
22:24 mtj[…]ed-by-Mojolicious
22:25 eythian_ we currently announce that we support poerl 5.10+, so mojo would be quite a shift.
22:25 cait ok, what can i put in the mintues?
22:25 cait #info Question: what are the perl requirements of mojolicious?
22:26 eythian_ I think deciding if we're OK bumping the minimum supported version needs to be a discussion (another time.)
22:26 cait #link[…]ed-by-Mojolicious
22:26 cait i think maybe soon - because we'd need to switch soon if we don't agree
22:26 rangi i still need to be convinced that we actually gain anything by introducing mojo
22:27 rangi and dont give me its easier for developers .. i dont really care about that
22:27 cait i wasn't going to ;)
22:27 rangi if it makes koha harder for users to install, for no gain to them
22:27 rangi then meh
22:27 cait i think the impression of most is now we agreed on it - which could make it a bit difficult to change direction now
22:27 rangi who's this we :-)
22:28 cait i am just trying to summarize
22:28 eythian_ (also, the discussion about mojo causing breaking changes a lot concerns me, we must be able to support multiple versions.)
22:28 mtj the flip is.. why not bump the minimum perl version?
22:28 cait i think those are all good points
22:29 cait as i said - it hink the easier we make it
22:29 cait to test and use
22:29 cait the better
22:29 wahanui it has been said that the better is "take cover." :)
22:29 cait i also think we need to make sure that we keep things tightly locked up
22:29 cait so authentication working well is a big point for me
22:30 eythian_ I'm of the opinion that auth needs to be redesigned from the ground up, but that's a big Jobâ„¢
22:31 mtj hmm,  i see squeeze has perl 5.10, and wheezy perl 5.14 - so thats a problem :/
22:31 cait mtj, eythian: could you bring that up on wiki/mailing list/bugzilla?
22:31 mtj yep, will do cait
22:31 mtj good news... jessie has perl 5.20
22:32 eythian_ fwiw, backporting the mojo module to wheezy didn't lead to tests failing, so that's hopeful.
22:32 mtj so, koha with mojo/swagger would only run on debian.8?
22:32 rangi 14.04 is april 2019
22:32 cait #action mtj to bring perl version question to the mailing list
22:33 cait something else about the api we should think of?
22:33 rangi but yeah, even without the perl issue, wtf does mojo even give us
22:34 rangi thats what no one has explained to me yet
22:34 rangi i feel like its moose all over again
22:34 cait i thnk the main excitement seems to be the swagger plugin for it
22:34 mtj hum, i assumed swagger needed mojo.. but no?
22:34 cait i think so
22:34 cait but... the technical bits are hard for me here - so please check what i say :)
22:35 eythian_ no, aiui they're two different things that can be connected.
22:36 cait ok
22:36 mtj
22:37 mtj hmm, it does look like the mojo stuff is optional?
22:37 rangi yes thats one implementation of swagger for perl
22:37 mtj "This distribution comes with a Mojolicious plugin, Mojolicious::Plugin::Swagger2, which can set up routes and perform input and output validation."
22:37 cait do you want me to add somethong to the minutes?
22:37 rangi thats not swagger tho
22:37 rangi thats a mojolicious implementation of swagger
22:38 mtj yep, understood
22:39 cait #info Question: what do we gain by using Mojolicious - are there other ways we could make use of Swagger?
22:39 cait anything else i can add?
22:39 mtj #info Question: can swagger be used without mojo?
22:40 cait does it take infos rom non-chairs?
22:40 cait i am never sure if i need to repeat
22:40 mtj i think yes cait
22:41 cait #info Question: can swagger be used without mojo?
22:41 cait just to make sure :)
22:41 cait ok, ready to move on?
22:42 cait #topic Koha Naming standards
22:42 Topic for #koha is now Koha Naming standards (Meeting topic: Developer IRC meeting 24 June 2015 - part 2)
22:42 cait where is a new wiki page where we gathered the terms used in the gui
22:42 cait
22:43 cait the question came up naming the new routes but also how to nam modules in the new namespace
22:43 cait patron / borrower / member / user
22:43 cait there is a lot of variation
22:43 eythian_ but all the UIs I see use "reserve" and "member" and so on :)
22:43 cait we are kind of standardized in the gui right now
22:44 cait eythian which do you mean?
22:44 eythian_ all of them
22:44 cait ah en_nz?
22:44 eythian_ all the GUIs
22:44 eythian_ well yeah, the standard language
22:44 cait well yes... there is a translation issue there
22:44 cait but i'd vote for at least having consistency - also makes translating easier
22:44 cait and maybe not use all options in naming stuff :)
22:45 eythian_ (that said, as much as patron is an old-timey, out-of-date sounding word, consistency is probably a better benefit no matter if it does sound weird.)
22:45 rangi im still puzzled how we got to en_NZ not being the standard seeings it started here ... but since we are standardising (or standardizing) on americanese patron is the word we should use
22:46 cait i think that predated my involvement on koha :)
22:46 cait it was all very patron when is tarted
22:46 rangi another thing you can blame on liblime actually
22:46 cait probably
22:46 wahanui somebody said probably was not, but i do not know another way
22:46 cait from a translation point of view - consistency is nice
22:46 eythian_ we probably have more users not using en_US though, if you count India :)
22:46 cait because it helps to settle on the same term in the translations as well
22:47 eythian_ I say we silently edit it to say that all words should use real English ;)
22:47 cait just do while i am on vacation please :)
22:47 cait so let's get some quick opinion thing
22:48 cait are we in favour of using the gui terminology (en_US) on the coding side of things as well (thinking namespaces and the like)?
22:48 eythian_ en_SIMPLE, you mean? ;)
22:49 cait #chair eythian
22:49 huginn` Current chairs: cait eythian
22:49 cait there, you get to help now with this meeting
22:49 rangi yeah makes sense to match the code
22:49 cait +1 from me (consistency helps generally)
22:49 eythian_ <-- that's the image I was thinking of
22:49 rangi however please for the love of toasted cheesus .. don't go refactoring code
22:49 rangi just to align the terminology
22:49 cait i think it was moslty a queston of the new namespace for now :)
22:50 rangi new is ok
22:50 eythian_ yeah, consistency is good
22:50 cait #agreed consistency is good - meeting participants in favour of aligning new code terminology with the gui terminology
22:50 cait hope ig ot that about right :)
22:50 cait ok, moving on?
22:51 mtj +1
22:51 cait #topic Big stuff we are working on
22:51 Topic for #koha is now Big stuff we are working on (Meeting topic: Developer IRC meeting 24 June 2015 - part 2)
22:51 cait i think eveyone wants to know... eythian - elastic search?
22:52 eythian_ it's coming along. I discovered a whole new search API the other day (yay!), implemented support for it and am now refactoring the bits that refer to it.
22:52 cait oh what is it?
22:52 eythian_ C4::Search::SimpleSearch, from memory.
22:53 eythian_ I'm hoping that when this is done, that'll be all the searching in the whole system using ES.
22:53 eythian_ which means it'll be ready for production ;)
22:53 eythian_ (not really)
22:53 cait ah another one in Koha
22:54 eythian_ yeah
22:54 eythian_ but after that is all the bitsy things like making sure indexing works properly, and so forth.
22:54 mtj amazing stuff eythian_ ^
22:54 eythian_ i.e. when you update a record, it's reindexed
22:54 cait that would be good yes :)
22:54 cait we have great difficulties with the facets... i am really hoping your code will make things better
22:55 eythian_ and it should all work with zebra too, just by flicking the switch
22:55 eythian_ cait: well, it uses ES to generate the facets, so that's hopefully better
22:55 cait mostly people are really confused we don't take into account the whole result set - displaying the important facets... and all as an option etc.
22:55 eythian_ this one does take into account all the result set, I think.
22:55 eythian_ there are a few bugs there, like the "more" link doesn't work.
22:55 cait like 'why do more itemtypes turn up when i limit the search, but haven't been shown initially'
22:56 eythian_ yeah
22:56 cait I'd love to see those things gone from my complaints list :)
22:56 eythian_ that probably shouldn't happen in this case, at least nearly so much.
22:56 cait eythian - will you send an email to the list again when we can start testing more?
22:56 eythian_ I'm not sure how far ES looks into the data.
22:57 eythian_ sure.
22:57 eythian_ I'll finish off this API stuff and then update my test server.
22:57 cait #action eythian to send an email to the list to call for testing when ready
22:57 cait hm should have included elastic search there...
22:57 cait smething else big?
22:57 cait or something you want to announce/mention?
22:58 eythian_ not me :)
22:58 cait #info ElasticSearch is coming along
22:58 cait #topic GBSD
22:58 Topic for #koha is now GBSD (Meeting topic: Developer IRC meeting 24 June 2015 - part 2)
22:59 cait we talked about having another gbsd - maybe coupled with a qa sprint
22:59 cait but they don't seem to have a lot of impact
22:59 cait not more people actually testing etc
22:59 cait the idea was to gather some ideas what we could do to revive them
23:00 cait no ideas?
23:01 eythian_ if it's any consolation, the last debian-perl equivalent got forgotten about even by the organiser :)
23:01 cait #info Needed: ideas on how to make gbsds more fun and more attractive
23:01 cait not really heh
23:02 mtj cait:  gbsd with dubstep
23:03 eythian_ nobody likes dubstep, mtj ;)
23:03 mtj other than that, i dont have any great ideas on GBSD
23:03 cait #topic specific bugs that need feedback
23:03 Topic for #koha is now specific bugs that need feedback (Meeting topic: Developer IRC meeting 24 June 2015 - part 2)
23:03 cait i put bug 7710 there
23:03 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7710 new feature, P5 - low, ---, alex.arnaud, In Discussion , multiple holds per title
23:03 cait we had some discussion how it should behave
23:03 cait and where the configuration should happen
23:04 cait for example: should we allow record level holds in combination with item level holds
23:04 mtj re: gbsd - perhaps we start working towards a definite testing setup, like kohadevbox?
23:04 cait i'd like to encourage people to add a note with thir ideas on the bug report
23:05 cait maybe we ould runa kohadevbox tutorial on a gbsd
23:05 cait to make it easier to get started?
23:05 mtj yeah, thats what i mean cait :)
23:06 cait #info Looking for opinions on bug 7710 - confiuration and behavoiur of multiple holds per title
23:06 cait #idea run a kohadevbox tutorial on gbsd
23:06 eythian_ that's a good idea, I think
23:06 cait i'd attend :)
23:06 mtj a gbsd newbie guide, from installing kohadevbox to signing-off a patch
23:07 cait i am too tired to look up the actions form last meeting
23:07 cait i am fully trusting people to have done their part
23:07 rocio joined #koha
23:07 cait #idea gbsd newbie guide - from installing kohadevbox to sign-off
23:07 cait ok, i'd like to moveon :)
23:08 cait #topic Set time of next meeting
23:08 Topic for #koha is now Set time of next meeting (Meeting topic: Developer IRC meeting 24 June 2015 - part 2)
23:08 cait #action tcohen to set date and time for next meeting - a shift to 14 UTC was suggested
23:08 cait last chance?
23:08 cait :)
23:08 mtj +1
23:08 cait #endmeeting
23:08 Topic for #koha is now Happy Birthday tcohen
23:08 huginn` Meeting ended Wed Jun 24 23:08:50 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
23:08 huginn` Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-06-24-22.04.html
23:08 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]5-06-24-22.04.txt
23:08 huginn` Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]24-22.04.log.html
23:08 cait thx all!
23:09 mtj awesome cait, thanks :0)
23:10 eythian_ cait++
23:11 cait left #koha
23:11 JoshB joined #koha
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23:26 mtj curious, what are the other options for perl + swagger
23:26 mtj .. other than
23:26 rangi no idea, ive yet to see compelling arguments for why we want swagger either
23:26 rangi other than its the new cool thing
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