IRC log for #koha, 2015-06-03

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:00 mtompset Ah, thanks, rangi.
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00:41 mtj hey #koha
00:43 mtj ping rangi, how would someone send a patch to the release-tools repo ?
00:43 mtj that one ->[…]ols.git;a=summary
00:44 mtj ..i was thinking of adding a README file to the repo, with that info in it :)
00:44 wizzyrea he's afk atm
00:45 mtj ..i also spotted some a few typos in the various 'release team' templates
00:46 mtj hey liz :0)
00:46 mtompset Greetings, mtj, wizzyrea. :)
00:47 mtj, i could send up those corrections too ^
00:48 wizzyrea no idea, probably something like clone the repo, make a bug, do the changes, then add the patch to a bug, like normal?
00:48 mtj hiya mtompset
00:48 wizzyrea you could get rangi to make a component for that
00:49 wizzyrea or use the Developer Documentation component
00:49 mtj i checked on bugzilla, but could not find any history of release-tool bugs/patches
00:50 wizzyrea I wouldn't let that stop you from doing it
00:50 wizzyrea it just means no one has.
00:50 wizzyrea better to beg forgiveness than ask permission.
00:51 mtompset who is MJR?
00:51 wizzyrea what's the context
00:51 mtompset I was reading code, and saw a comment.
00:51 mtj mjray
00:51 * wizzyrea knows more than one with those initials, so thought better to check before asserting that
00:52 wizzyrea but mtj is probably right
00:52 mtompset In fact, I saw it on a location, which I accidentally triggered by testing incorrectly.
00:52 mtompset And I was like: we should make it die meaningfully.
00:53 mtompset And lo and behold... there's a comment in the location by MJR. :)
00:53 mtj wizzyrea: thanks, ill wait for rangi's advice 1st
00:54 mtompset @seen mjray
00:54 huginn mtompset: I have not seen mjray.
00:54 mtompset @seen mjr
00:54 huginn mtompset: I have not seen mjr.
00:54 wizzyrea his nick will be slef
00:54 mtompset AH! slef!
00:54 mtompset @seen slef
00:54 huginn mtompset: slef was last seen in #koha 1 week, 5 days, 13 hours, 33 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: <slef> Joubu: thanks. I'll try.
00:59 mtj hey mtompset, great work on your tidyup patches too :)
00:59 mtj ive seen loads of them recently
00:59 mtompset Thank you. There are still a couple more needing testing/sign off.
00:59 mtompset I haven't gotten further yet.
01:00 mtj it can be quite satisfitying to fix those annoying little warns! :)
01:00 mtompset Firefox update... let's see if this breaks...
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01:01 mtompset Not so bad... just a blip. :)
01:01 mtj ive recently switchd to the dev-edition of firefox, its waay better
01:02 mtj ive managed to give up firebug, the built-in dev tools seems to be good enuff
01:02 mtj a bit faster than firebug too, i think?
01:02 wizzyrea they are quirky sometimes
01:02 wizzyrea follow the old adage
01:03 wizzyrea try turning it off and on again
01:03 wizzyrea < has some experience with that
01:03 talljoy evening/morning koha
01:03 wizzyrea afternoon really, but hi
01:03 wizzyrea :)
01:04 talljoy well it's a well established fact i struggle with the time
01:04 talljoy so good afternoon.
01:04 talljoy :-D
01:04 wizzyrea most clever people do
01:04 wizzyrea :)
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01:05 talljoy i should just try this from now on
01:09 rangi mtj: you could send a patch to me, tcohen, jcamins, gmcharlt or paulp im happy to apply a patch and push it
01:09 rangi hey talljoy
01:10 talljoy hi rangi
01:10 talljoy i haven't talked to you all in NZ in quite a while.
01:10 rangi true
01:10 mtj hiya talljoy
01:11 talljoy hi mtj
01:12 mtj can we use an issue tracker?
01:12 mtj oops, rangi ^ :)
01:12 mtj ..for the release-tools repo
01:13 rangi i could add a new product to bugzilla, but i fear it would confuse people and we would get bugs lodged in the wrong place
01:13 wizzyrea I wondered if maybe using the developer documentation component would do
01:13 wizzyrea or a new component for release tools
01:13 wizzyrea (like I have for the website)
01:14 mtj rangi: i would add a new component
01:14 rangi pretty much whoever is the release manager is the only one updating it, id probably just send a patch to tcohen, its changed 6 times this year .. its not a high change thing and i think we would be just making unnessecary overhead for ourselves
01:15 mtj ..just add a big sexxy description, about what it is.. and is not
01:15 rangi yeah nah im not convinced adding stuff to the koha bug tracker that is only tangentially related to koha is actually helpful
01:16 mtj rangi:  its commit activity is chicken/egg problem
01:16 rangi not really
01:16 rangi its not somethign that should be changing much, it should be super stable
01:16 rangi i dont want it broken when i have to do a release
01:16 eythian put it on gitlab and allow pull requests from there?
01:16 mtj is sending patches, coz no-one knows where to send them
01:16 mtompset The chicken/egg problem was solved. I believe they said it was chicken, because of a protein that wouldn't otherwise exist in the process. ;)
01:16 rangi gitlab might work
01:17 * mtj speaks from personal experience here ^
01:17 mtj gitlab sounds great... problem solved?
01:18 rangi should put it on the agenda for a meeting
01:18 rangi personally i dont want lots of people touching the release tools
01:18 rangi just the release manager and maintainers, and there is most 4 of them
01:20 mtj yep, i agree
01:53 * talljoy walks over to the release tools and holds finger one cm away.  "I'm not touching them"
01:53 talljoy can you tell i raised two boys?
01:53 talljoy rangi do your boys do that kind of silly stuff?
01:54 rangi yeah
01:54 rangi the worst is "get that off the couch" so they walk over and push it onto the floor
01:54 talljoy HA
01:54 talljoy sometimes it is so annoying.  and sometimes i applaud their creativity
01:54 rangi hehe yep
01:55 talljoy like when i said "keep your hands to yourself" and the one thought about it and then ran up to the other and hit him with his stomach
01:55 talljoy knocked him flat on his back.
01:55 talljoy i applaud you sir!
01:55 rangi heh
01:56 talljoy signing off.  later koha
01:56 rangi cya later
01:56 wizzyrea hehe later
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02:19 mtj lol, thats classic
02:27 mtompset Have a great day, #koha rangi wizzyrea mtj
02:28 wizzyrea later
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02:48 eythian @seen cnighswonger
02:48 huginn eythian: I have not seen cnighswonger.
02:48 eythian @seen chris_n
02:48 huginn eythian: chris_n was last seen in #koha 3 weeks, 4 days, 9 hours, and 21 seconds ago: <chris_n> @later tell khall I'll have to hold off on testing 14167 due to a stubborn zebra instance
02:49 eythian @later tell chris_n Not sure if any of these affect us, but it'd be worth keeping in mind. I'll see about updating it when a new release is made.
02:49 huginn eythian: The operation succeeded.
02:49 eythian @later tell chris_n
02:49 huginn eythian: The operation succeeded.
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04:06 eythian wahanui: danger danger is <reply>High voltage!
04:06 wahanui OK, eythian.
04:19 wizzyrea I went to see electric six once
04:20 eythian was there a nuclear war?
04:20 wizzyrea there were glowing breasts :P
04:21 eythian heh
04:21 eythian hrm, faceting of itype is awkward when we have both 952$y and 942$c
04:21 wizzyrea yeah it is
04:22 * eythian creates a note to think about it another time.
04:23 wizzyrea I suppose it would depend on whether you have item or biblio level itemtypes enabled
04:23 wizzyrea which you facet on
04:24 eythian yeah. But it's very hard to abstract that out so you're not hardcoding things.
04:25 eythian I kinda wonder if I should have a little predicate column in the database that lets you compare system preferences.
04:25 wizzyrea * to think about
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05:57 * magnuse waves
06:04 * cait waves
06:05 magnuse kia ora cait
06:05 * magnuse hopes this switch to dom works
06:08 magnuse woohoo[…]2/jessew-welcome/
06:14 magnuse gah, file permissions issue, one more try at reindexing
06:15 dcook I think I finally understand UTF-8, Unicode, Latin1...
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06:16 dcook Or at least I do for a few minutes today
06:16 magnuse no error messages after exporting - looks promising
06:16 magnuse dcook: then you are a very lucky man :-)
06:16 dcook I know, right? I'm sure I'm missing something
06:17 magnuse hehe, yeah that is the feeling i always have when it comes to that stuff :-)
06:17 dcook At the moment, I'm looking at the byte Oxff.
06:17 dcook Technically illegal in UTF-8
06:17 dcook But U+00FF is a Unicode code point for the character ÿ
06:18 dcook Which is character 255 in latin1
06:18 dcook Or byte 0xFF
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06:19 dcook But to get ÿ in UTF-8, it needs to be encoded as c3 bf
06:19 dcook So you might see "ÿ" in your terminal or your log and think that's OK because it's a Unicode/UTF-8 character...
06:19 dcook But your terminal is probably encoding the data at Latin1
06:19 dcook And your PostgreSQL which is using UTF-8 encoding is going to explode
06:20 magnuse lulz
06:20 dcook Because 0xff doesn't mean "ÿ" in UTF-8. It's something else... relating to BOMs I think.
06:20 dcook It's even more special in Perl, as I think there's some sort of internal magic for handling characters lower than 256 in a sort of automagical way
06:21 dcook Mmm and Perl outputs latin1 by default
06:21 dcook So there's so many layers O_O
06:21 dcook Perl encoding the bytes in the original output, your terminal trying to make sense of that output, other programs trying to make sense of that output
06:22 * dcook wishes that everything was just in UTF-8 so no one had to worry
06:32 * magnuse too
06:33 magnuse eythian++ for "koha-stop-zebra, pkill zebra, koha-start-zebra"
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06:34 reiveune hello
06:38 magnuse bonjour reiveune
06:39 dcook Hmm, thought I had it but I lost it again
06:39 dcook Well, I mean... I had that part
06:39 reiveune salut dcook magnuse
06:40 dcook hey reiveune
06:40 wahanui reiveune is working for biblibre
06:41 cait bbiab
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06:57 alex_a bonjour
06:57 wahanui kia ora, alex_a
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07:05 drojf morning #koha
07:08 magnuse moin drojf
07:08 drojf hei magnuse
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07:21 fridolin hie there
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07:28 Joubu Good morning #koha
07:36 magnuse bonjour fridolin Joubu
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07:37 gaetan_B hello
07:37 fridolin bonjour magnuse
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07:49 indradg hi magnuse, fridolin, Joubu, gaetan_B
07:51 magnuse namoshkaar indradg
08:15 nlegrand hey #koha o/
08:20 rangi evening all
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08:24 rangi how to understand nzers, in 2 images and
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08:25 drojf later #koha
08:26 indradg rangi++ for pushes into 3.20.1 :)
08:34 magnuse rangi: nice
08:35 Joubu He clearly deserved a couple of beers :)
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09:08 Joubu cait: around?
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09:23 cait only for a quick moment
09:24 cait last day before vacation today
09:24 cait but i will be around tomorrow and friday - with more koha time then i hope
09:31 ashimema @later tell khall any chance you could re-QA 13644 now he's made the fixes pretty please :)
09:31 huginn ashimema: The operation succeeded.
09:32 magnuse bug 13644
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09:32 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=13644 trivial, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Paging Javascript breaks links with anchor
09:32 ashimema pants..
09:32 ashimema 13664
09:32 ashimema but 13664
09:32 ashimema bug 13664
09:32 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=13664 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, david.roberts, Signed Off , Add password strength plugin
09:32 ashimema wrong number.. silly me
09:33 magnuse ah
09:33 ashimema @later tell khall woops, thats 13664 not 13644
09:33 huginn ashimema: The operation succeeded.
09:34 ashimema David is one of our support guys who I bullied into taking on that peice of dev work to take it off my pile.. he's a tad scared aobut having to rebase again.. not the best at git.. though e's getting there.. don't want to put him off too soon though ;)
09:34 Joubu ashimema: it's on my list
09:34 ashimema awesome.. thanks joubu
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09:35 ashimema @later tell pianohacker I'm aware of the shibboleth bug.. pretty sure I've fixed it somewhere.. let me dig it out
09:35 huginn ashimema: The operation succeeded.
09:50 kivilahtio We are setting up a GitHub Oraganization to publish our KohaFinland source code, and I am not very familiar on how to best do that in GitHub.
09:50 kivilahtio I was planning to create a remote branch to github pointing to the koha-community's git-server
09:51 kivilahtio then use that branched koha-community to act as the KohaFinland master branch
09:51 kivilahtio is this even possible in github?
09:53 kivilahtio I see tcohen has a mirrored and synced Git repo from koha-community master
09:53 mtj hiya kivilahtio
09:53 kivilahtio mtj: hi
09:53 wahanui hey, kivilahtio
09:53 kivilahtio hi wahanui
09:54 mtj kivilahtio: i think its possible  ^
09:54 kivilahtio mtj: but should i :)
09:55 mtj i dont think it matters where you publish your repo
09:55 kivilahtio mtj: we chose GitHub, since it is easiest I hope
09:56 mtj are you planning use github for developing your koha too?
09:56 kivilahtio so far we have been just tar-gz:ing a LXC-container and making that tar available
09:56 kivilahtio mtj: yes
09:56 kivilahtio mtj: we share all our code
09:56 kivilahtio mtj: We are forming the virtual office for several municipalities in Finland to work together
09:57 mtj people seem to be recommending gitlab over github
09:57 kivilahtio mtj: Just configured Redmine to server projectmanagement and issues and wiki. Set up sftp with Nginx as front end for file sharing. IRC for chat
09:57 kivilahtio webRTC for conferencing
09:57 kivilahtio gitlab...
09:57 wahanui it has been said that gitlab is really interesting.
09:58 mtj can selfhost your gitlab repo on your own servers - something not possible with github
09:58 kivilahtio mtj: I could just fork tcohens koha mirror :)
09:59 mtj webRTC is great, hey :)
09:59 kivilahtio mtj: I know. Farewell Spyware Skype
10:01 mtj
10:01 mtj kivilahtio:  thats another synced koha mirror too
10:01 kivilahtio yes, I guess i just track that
10:01 kivilahtio a goodread[…]racking-branches/
10:02 kivilahtio mtj: Thanks for the help. I think I can manage from now on.
10:02 kivilahtio mtj: But I need to check gitlab out
10:03 mtj ^ me too, i havent used it myself... it looks very promising!
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10:04 mtj
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11:31 cait holger++
11:31 cait bug 14101
11:31 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14101 major, P5 - low, ---, h.meissner.82, Needs Signoff , auto renewal is tied to 'no renewal before'
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12:22 tcohen morning
12:23 tcohen hi Joubu
12:24 Joubu Hi Tomas!
12:24 kivilahtio hi Joubu and tcohen!
12:24 tcohen hi kivilahtio
12:26 tcohen Joubu: I made a mistake with my patch for TestBuilder, I already put ->unique_constrains_columns but i dropped it on a refactoring
12:26 kivilahtio ooo... what is a TestBuilder?
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12:26 tcohen *->unique_contrains
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12:27 kivilahtio TestBuilder sounds like it has something to do about setting up the test context
12:27 kivilahtio a bit like TestObjectFactories?
12:27 cait tcohen: i will miss the first dev meeting :(
12:27 tcohen oh noes, who willl chair then!!!
12:27 tcohen :-P
12:27 cait hm you? :)
12:28 tcohen heh
12:28 tcohen yeah, just kidding
12:28 tcohen Joubu: i'll post a new patch in a couple minutes
12:28 magnuse kivilahtio: bug 12603
12:28 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12603 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, yohann.dufour, Pushed to Master , TestBuilder - Module to simplify the writing of tests
12:28 kivilahtio magnuse: yup, reading...
12:30 Joubu kivilahtio: you should follow the koha-devel ML
12:30 kivilahtio Joubu: I know
12:30 kivilahtio Joubu: but the important thing is that this made it to master!
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12:47 tcohen Joubu: i think TestBuilder it cannot be fixed without a major refactoring
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12:50 chris_n @later tell eythian it probably does; there are quite a few fixes in the queue which I plan to roll up into a new release toward the end of July
12:50 huginn chris_n: The operation succeeded.
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13:04 xarragon If I want to customize the appearance of Koha I can ofc. use the custom CSS, but beyond that I can change the .less files.. But when I want to change settings inside bootstrap.css, is that generated from any other source?
13:04 * mtompset whispers, "Greetings, #koha."
13:05 xarragon There appears to be no less source for opac-tmpl/bootstrap/lib/bootstrap/
13:05 magnuse xarragon: bootstrap.css sounds like it is provided by bootstrap?
13:05 * nengard heard mtompset
13:05 nengard :)
13:05 talljoy joined #koha
13:05 * mtompset smiles at nengard. :)
13:06 magnuse so to change things that are set there, override them with the custom css sysprefs
13:09 mtompset Development meeting in roughly 2 hours, right?
13:10 xarragon magnuse: I have tried changing in both, so far the CSS override works as long as i choose the correct selectors. I was just curious if there is a way to implement plugins or alternative themes?
13:11 magnuse xarragon: sorry, dunno
13:11 magnuse @seen oleonard
13:11 huginn magnuse: oleonard was last seen in #koha 13 weeks, 4 days, 19 hours, 16 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <oleonard> That's very strange squash. I'm sorry, I don't know what's going on.
13:12 mtompset xarragon: Did you try important? I find sometimes that CSS word is... important. :)
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13:14 xarragon mtompset: Hah, no, I saw it on the wiki page and in the source. I am just experimenting with restyling Koha to match the municipal home page and wanted to understand the output flow and the limitations of CSS overrides. I might need to move elements around etc.
13:15 xarragon Am I correct in assuming that bootstrap itself limits the layout a bit, in order to maintain the responsive design features etc?
13:15 tcohen Joubu: if there is a multi-column primary key we need to have this check outside _buildColumnValue
13:16 * tcohen will leave this for another one, and focus on RM duties
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13:30 magnuse am i the only one bothered by bug 12488?
13:30 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12488 trivial, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , -d option should use DELETE instead of TRUNCATE
13:36 * magnuse shrugs and wanders off
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13:50 mtompset magnuse: Never noticed the bug before.
13:53 mtompset There. I commented on it. :)
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13:57 tcohen Joubu: do u have any idea why a default set of values is a good idea for TestBuildes?
13:57 * tcohen has headaches
14:00 Joubu Just to simplify :)
14:00 Joubu No need to provide something you don't care
14:01 tcohen but what if the DB is already populated with some data that matches the defaults?
14:01 tcohen it would give a false negative on the tests
14:01 Joubu yes
14:01 Joubu that's an issue
14:02 Joubu I tried to provide a workaround with the last patch
14:02 Joubu it's not perfect but should work in 99.99%
14:02 tcohen i moved my check for multi-column primary keys
14:02 tcohen and the issue was a collision with the defaults :-D
14:03 pastebot "tcohen" at pasted "Joubu: like this" (29 lines) at
14:05 tcohen otoh, the same applies for the use case when you need (say) a branch for your tests: your tests would end-up failing if you already have one
14:06 tcohen it seems to me that generating random data and using that on the tests would be simpler and cleaner
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14:20 Joubu tcohen: I didn't get it
14:20 Joubu TestBuilder will generate random data to reuse them in the tests
14:20 Joubu the only issues is when the generated data already existed
14:21 Joubu -s
14:22 pastebot "tcohen" at pasted "Joubu: full version" (42 lines) at
14:26 Joubu tcohen: yep, that's make sense to me, except the unique keys should be managed too
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14:29 tcohen Joubu: I agree, but right now I'm dealing with a weird error
14:29 tcohen if you use my _buildColumnValues
14:29 tcohen the tests break
14:29 tcohen i'm not sure why
14:29 tcohen SQL syntax problem
14:36 * mtompset randomly says, "I blame the semicolon and spacing."
14:45 tcohen oh boy
14:46 mtompset oh entity of non-descript gender, sentience, race, religion, etc?
14:46 tcohen if we use DBIx to deal with inserting data on the DB, and we get SQL syntax errors...
14:46 cait left #koha
14:46 mtompset I fear to hear what is next.
14:47 tcohen it has to be a DBIx bug
14:48 * tcohen is not feeling guilty anymore
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14:49 Joubu tcohen: always on the same thing?
14:49 tcohen yes
14:49 tcohen can u try?
14:49 Joubu ha, ok
14:49 Joubu I fixed it
14:49 Joubu sorry, I though you switched to something else
14:49 tcohen what did u fix?
14:50 Joubu my computer is taking off
14:50 Joubu wait 30sec :)
14:50 tcohen you attached a drone to it?
14:50 Joubu no, just launched TestBuilder tests
14:51 Joubu actually the problem is that you test assigned a hashref, instead of a string
14:51 Joubu because permissions.module_bit is a fk and a pk
14:51 tcohen _you're talking about my _buildColumnValues ?
14:52 Joubu so in your loop l.~179, $col_values->{$column} is a hashref
14:52 Joubu try:
14:52 Joubu 180                 next if ref($col_values->{$column}) eq 'HASH';
14:52 * mtompset jokes, "Get a room!" :)
14:52 Joubu with the last version you pasted
14:53 tcohen i'm not sure I'm following you
14:55 pastebot Someone at pasted "tcohen: like this :)" (43 lines) at
14:55 Joubu tcohen: the only changes with yours is                next if ref($col_values->{$column}) eq 'HASH';
14:56 Joubu is/are +s -s, blame me...
14:57 tcohen my computer is taking offf too
14:58 tcohen it loops forever
14:58 Joubu I think so yes
14:58 Joubu while 1 { foreach { foreach } } => usually it's not a good idea :)
14:59 tcohen the problem is that is picking the default value for 'bit'
14:59 tcohen on each run
14:59 tcohen and it is a primary key
15:00 * mtompset notes that it is approaching DEV meeting time. :)
15:00 tcohen on 'userflags'
15:01 tcohen i still think the problem is default data
15:01 Joubu tcohen: yes it is
15:02 tcohen back to that later
15:02 * tcohen will prepare some coffee and be back
15:02 tcohen for the meeting
15:05 ashimema hello tcohen
15:06 ashimema sounds like I should get a cuppa tea then
15:06 fridolin see u
15:06 fridolin left #koha
15:07 tcohen oh noes
15:07 tcohen frido, come back!
15:07 tcohen hi ashimema
15:08 AmitG joined #koha
15:08 AmitG hi all
15:09 tcohen we are waiting for ashimema's tea to be ready
15:09 tcohen it'd be 3 more minutes, right?
15:09 tcohen :-D
15:09 ashimema lol
15:09 AmitG hi tcohen
15:09 ashimema i got weighleighed on the way to the kitchen.. no tea for me :(
15:09 ashimema but I'm here now at least
15:10 tcohen #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 3 June 2015 - part 1
15:10 huginn Meeting started Wed Jun  3 15:10:26 2015 UTC.  The chair is tcohen. Information about MeetBot at
15:10 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:10 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 3 June 2015 - part 1)
15:10 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_3_june_2015___part_1'
15:10 tcohen #topic Introductions
15:10 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
15:10 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 3 June 2015 - part 1)
15:10 tcohen please introduce yourself with #info
15:10 khall #info Kyle M Hall, ByWater Solutions
15:10 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Universidad Nacional de Córdoba
15:10 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart
15:11 bgkriegel #info Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel
15:11 ColinC #info Colin Campbell, PTFS-Europe
15:11 AmitG #info Amit Gupta, Informatics Bangalore, India
15:11 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe
15:11 tcohen hurry everyone
15:11 tcohen heh
15:12 mtompset #info Mark Tompsett
15:12 tcohen ok then
15:12 tcohen #topic RM 3.22 comments
15:12 Topic for #koha is now RM 3.22 comments (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 3 June 2015 - part 1)
15:13 tcohen I'd like to congratulate everyone for the 3.20, has been pretty solid since the beggining
15:13 andreashm joined #koha
15:13 tcohen we are upgrading soon here
15:13 ashimema tcohen++ we're only as good as our leader ;)
15:14 andreashm #info Andreas Hedström Mace, Stockholm University Library
15:14 tcohen the next release might became a major milestone for the project
15:14 tcohen if we look at the stuff we are trying to have ready soon
15:14 * mtompset mumbles, "4.0?"
15:14 tcohen i'm really excited about all this, and I know most of the community shares this feeling
15:15 nengard #info Nicole Engard, ByWater Solutions
15:15 tcohen as someone told me a while back: we need to enjoy developing Koha too, not only bugfixes
15:15 * nengard agrees with mtompset
15:15 talljoy #info Joy Nelson, ByWater Solutions
15:15 tcohen we need to put our hands on cool new stuff, points of view
15:15 dani joined #koha
15:16 tcohen most of us have thought what all that means
15:16 tcohen some are excited to have a RESTful API
15:16 edveal #info Ed Veal, Bywater Solutions
15:16 tcohen some because we might be introducing the use of a web framework for some parts of the project
15:16 tcohen and of course, ElasticSearch :-D
15:17 barton #info Barton Chittenden, BWS, Louisville, KY, USA
15:17 tcohen to have all those pieces put together at some point
15:17 hkh joined #koha
15:17 tcohen we need to join efforts, and coordinate actions
15:18 AmitG tcohen++
15:18 misilot #info Thomas Misilo, Florida Institute of Technology
15:18 tcohen we all want Koha to shine more and more on each release
15:18 nengard koha++
15:18 dani #info Dani BWS,Cedar Park, TX, USA
15:18 tcohen so we need to make hard decisions too, because of course several pov are in place on each decision
15:19 tcohen so
15:19 tcohen to the point
15:20 tcohen i think it good be great to have a big picture of what our expectations are for the 3.22 (?) release
15:20 tcohen i mean what will everyone be working on
15:20 ashimema sounds good to me.
15:20 tcohen we have a proof of concept for a restful api on mojo
15:21 laurence left #koha
15:21 tcohen we have a wip branch on catalyst repo for the elasticsearcg
15:21 tcohen work
15:21 tcohen that'd be the next topic i think
15:21 andreashm joined #koha
15:21 tcohen so to the point
15:21 tcohen i'm happy with how promising this looks
15:22 tcohen and am proposing a 3 week cycle for dev meetings
15:22 tcohen it'd be awesome to have short scrum-like daily meetings
15:22 tcohen we can do it informally
15:23 carmen #info Carmen Hernandez, Bywater Solutions
15:23 tcohen #info the RM will try to keep a 3-week frecquency for dev meetings
15:23 tcohen questions?
15:23 wahanui questions are good :)
15:24 tcohen wahanui: you are right
15:24 wahanui ...but wahanui is a bot|a repository of important and useful and accurate information or at least partially slow.|a little bit creepy.|right sometimes|a strange duck|a bot....
15:24 Joubu I would be good to know who is working on what
15:24 tcohen would you all agree to have a shared Trello board where we share what we are working on?
15:24 Joubu and to have a planning
15:25 ashimema Trello is great for this sort of thing.
15:25 Joubu We already tried a trello board, it was not a success
15:25 nengard tcohen would would we give our info to to be included on that?
15:25 barton Part of our daily work-flow at BWS is to send out a "what I'm working on" email, this works fairly well in place of actual stand-up meetings.
15:25 nengard I thought trello was a success at the hackfest
15:25 Joubu (Maybe prefer ?)
15:25 tcohen we used/use trello for several things
15:26 tcohen my trello board was a mess
15:26 tcohen but Katrin's shined
15:26 tcohen :-D
15:26 tcohen i think each team/company has its own tools for this
15:26 tcohen but we might have a general board to have the whole picture
15:27 tcohen so on each meeting we can ask about progress, etc
15:27 andreashm Slack?
15:27 misilot Possibly this: (I haven't used this product from Atlassian but I have used others) and free for open source ([…]-license-request)
15:27 tcohen nengard: i'll add anyone interested
15:28 Joubu (libreboard is open source and can be hosted, that's why I suggest that, but not the point now)
15:29 andreashm Whatever board if would be good if it was open so interested parties can see what's going on
15:29 ashimema The real point is making sure we all use it and maintain it..
15:29 tcohen libreboard looks good
15:29 tcohen yeah
15:29 ashimema the wiki RFC's would work, if everyone actually looked at them.. for example.
15:29 nengard "if" is the key word :(
15:30 ashimema I like the kanban approach of trello et al personally, means you can get the 'jist' of somthings state at a glance
15:30 barton I agree that which tool we use isn't as important as actually using the tool we choose...
15:30 andreashm RFC's are hard to read to see what is going on. wall of text.
15:30 nengard barton++
15:30 nengard ashimema++
15:31 Joubu We need 1 entry point for all wip, a whatever-board is excellent for that.
15:31 tcohen ashimema++
15:31 Joubu ok, same as ashimema :)
15:31 andreashm ashimema++
15:31 tcohen proposal: I'll set a TRello board for what we are working on for the 3.22 release cycle
15:31 tcohen if anyone has a better idea, we just move there
15:31 ColinC helps sometimes to clarify what x is tracking
15:32 indradg joined #koha
15:32 codavid joined #koha
15:32 ashimema there's two things to track that state of.. Proposition -> Coding -> QA -> Push.. is one workflow.. but often things sit in the 'Coding' pile for a long time without much update.. that's where the meetings come in.. a vocal.. yup.. we are actualyl still working on it.. few weeks away.. type thing
15:32 * mtompset agrees that no one reads RFCs.
15:32 codavid left #koha
15:32 pianohacker joined #koha
15:32 * khall also confirms that
15:32 * nengard does for documentation sake :)
15:32 barton I also think that posting blockers is an important part of running standup meetings. Having an established time/place to get questions looked at can be very powerful.
15:32 nengard but that's after it's in Koha
15:33 * mtompset notes that nengard is a special exception. :)
15:33 tcohen #info Tomas will set a provisional Trello board where people will document what are they working on at a given time
15:33 * nengard likes being special
15:33 ashimema the RFC's are an important step.. but they are entirely about drawing up a spec and agreeing upon it.. they shouldn't be used after that fro tracking current state.. once an RFC has been agreed we souhld think of it as effectively locked... and then we use trello or whatever to track the actual dev progress
15:33 nengard tcohen++
15:33 tcohen #info this could be moved to another tool if someone volunteers to set it
15:34 ashimema nengard++ I agree there..
15:34 khall ashimema++
15:34 ashimema blockers are important to get out in the open
15:34 indradg #info Indranil Das Gupta, India
15:34 ashimema barton++ even, it was you who mentioned blockers
15:34 tcohen should we have a column for blockers? (sounds messy, though)
15:35 ashimema thinks like the accounts re-write.. it's not yet in koha.. but is a major blocker for a whole bunch of us now saceed to go anywhere near accounts for worry of having to re-write when it goes in ;)
15:36 ashimema I would say a 'Blocked' column mre like tcohen.
15:36 khall indeed, there are a number of open bugs that the accounts rewrite would resolve with no other changes
15:36 tcohen maybe we could set mondays to talk about blockers, informally
15:36 ashimema so, things that can't move on yet sit in there
15:36 ashimema sounds good to me
15:36 pianohacker here but not putting my name in, have to disappear for a conference call in 20
15:37 barton I like that idea.
15:37 indradg sounds good
15:39 khall good idea
15:39 tcohen can i say we agreed to explicitly talk about blockers on mondays?
15:40 ashimema ++
15:40 khall yes, will there be a time window, or will it be all day?
15:41 pianohacker brb coffee
15:41 barton I think that it should be all day -- that way we don't have to worry so much about the international audience.
15:42 tcohen #info mondays will become "blockers day", we'll raise concerns about possible blockers and try to coordinate efforts for fixing them
15:42 barton maybe we could tag the blockers in IRC, to make them easier to filter from the logs.
15:42 khall barton: I agreed time zone issues make it tough, but I'm afraid if we don't narrow down the times to one or two windows we won't be effective
15:43 ashimema I'm almost tempted to say it's mroe about having a key contact than a time and place..
15:43 ashimema hmm..
15:43 * ashimema thinks loudly
15:44 tcohen i think it is fair to assume the RM will be available during his office hours to account possible bockers and as fr help if needed
15:44 khall if we can get a group or groups of devs to agree to some general times that would go a long way
15:44 barton If we used something like "BLOCKER: " to as a marker, could we then filter those out to an email to koha-dev?
15:44 tcohen khall: +1
15:44 indradg khall +1
15:45 barton khall +1
15:45 barton ['course he hears that from me all day long]
15:45 khall : )
15:45 tcohen so, we could say the dev team members should send alerts on possible blockers to the dev list with a BLOCKER mark on the subject
15:46 andreashm joined #koha
15:46 tcohen as barton said
15:46 tcohen well, as ashimema said, this is a methodological problem
15:47 mtompset asynchronous communication does work too. Not everything needs sychronous.
15:47 khall can't hurt, but I like the idea of the blocker trello column to quickly see all those blockers at once best.
15:47 tcohen i'd say anyone willing to help with blockers should show up on "blocker day" to help and discuss solutions
15:47 ashimema sounds good
15:48 tcohen and yes, we will have that column
15:48 tcohen #info 'blocker days' are for people willing to help with blockers to show up and discuss solutions to blocker bugs
15:48 khall can we start an dev-list email thread for devs to list the times they can be available? That way we can come up with specific windows where a decent sized group of devs will be around
15:49 tcohen would you send that email?
15:49 tcohen :-D
15:50 khall I'm writing at right now ; )
15:50 tcohen ok, moving on
15:50 tcohen next topic is too wide
15:50 tcohen #topic Planning the 3.22 release
15:50 Topic for #koha is now Planning the 3.22 release (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 3 June 2015 - part 1)
15:51 tcohen we already talked about how will we deal with big stuff we are working on
15:51 tcohen so I think it is time to hear from people working on that stuff, how is it going, what do they think about the timeframe fr the release and their work
15:52 tcohen we have only two things listed
15:52 tcohen RESTful aPI and ElasticSearch integration
15:53 tcohen we should make a methodological decision
15:53 tcohen should we start discussing them now?
15:54 tcohen only hear about their statuses and schedule a meeting soon (like next week) to discuss/make decisions on each one?
15:55 khall We could throw the accounts rewrite in there as well
15:55 barton nod.
15:55 mtompset where shall I ask my tiny question? :)
15:56 mtompset about where to put the function? :)
15:57 pastebot "mtompset" at pasted "Where should this go?" (10 lines) at
15:57 tcohen is anyone working on the restful api willing to talk about it now?
15:58 tcohen we need to know what are the next steps
15:58 khall it still needs signoff
15:59 tcohen khall: it is not clear to me that it isn't just a POC
15:59 barton POC?
15:59 wahanui POC is Proof Of Concept
15:59 khall tcohen: it started off as a POC, but it isn't any longer afaik
16:00 indradg oh! /me was harboring it was POC and stayed away from it! mea culpa
16:00 khall robin and co have been working on making sure it'll be package ready
16:00 nengard_webinar left #koha
16:00 eskaaren joined #koha
16:00 tcohen ok, I propose we schedule a meeting for next week so jajm shows, and explains us the implementation details, and people have the chance to discuss it
16:01 tcohen anyone from biblibre can confirm he could be available for that?
16:02 tcohen once we agree that's the way to do it, RESTful endpoints will grow like grass
16:02 tcohen so it is important we have feedback soon
16:02 ashimema I'll try to show up for that.. I really need to find some time to have a play with it..
16:03 tcohen i'd like to have someone involved on that work here
16:03 indradg tcohen +1
16:03 ashimema I think to go with it, it's important to have it and how to code on it, well documented..
16:03 ashimema I didn't feel we'de reached that point last I looked..
16:04 ashimema big for instance.. the whole idea of swagger is that it's test/documentation driven development..
16:04 tcohen moving into using a web framework like mojo has several implications for the project, so it is not as simple as "this patchset works"
16:04 ashimema i.e, you write the documentation and a json schema file first..
16:04 barton I wonder if we could come up with a way to announce progress on large projects...
16:04 ashimema then write code to forfil it.. i don't think that message had really been gotten accross yet.
16:06 hkh bye
16:06 khall ashimema: I'm sure anything you can add to the bug would be most welcome
16:06 khall or wherever you think is most suitable
16:06 ashimema I've generally been adding to the wiki page so far..
16:06 ashimema really need to find the time to sit down a get to konw the bug ;)
16:06 tcohen ok
16:07 ashimema but yes.. I'll add to it
16:07 barton *be* the bug, ashimema :-)
16:07 ashimema and attend a meet if we have one ;)
16:07 tcohen #actions Tomas will ask Julian for possible dates for a meeting to discuss/explain his implementation of a RESTful API
16:08 tcohen is anyone aware of the ES implementation progress?
16:09 tcohen i think on part 2 we'll have more feedback on this
16:10 tcohen i need to end the meeting to attend another one with the boss
16:10 tcohen so moving on
16:10 tcohen #topic Specific bugs that need feedback
16:10 Topic for #koha is now Specific bugs that need feedback (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 3 June 2015 - part 1)
16:11 tcohen #info Bug 6874 is candidate for early inclusion in the 3.22 cycle
16:11 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Passed QA , Attach a file to a MARC record (Was: File upload in MARC)
16:11 tcohen i'll try to provide feedback on some shortcomings
16:12 tcohen *i think the implementation has
16:12 mtompset And marcel has created an umbrella bug report for following up on it.
16:12 tcohen exactly
16:12 mtompset Oh, and it is dependent on Bug 5010. :)
16:12 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5010 normal, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Passed QA , Fix OPACBaseURL to include protocol
16:12 tcohen #info Marcel has conveniently created an umbrella bug for fixing all remaining stuff
16:12 reiveune bye
16:12 reiveune left #koha
16:13 tcohen i should have put 5010 on that list, but it will be impossible now (no time left for me)
16:13 mtompset I have yet to actually do any coding for the QA feedback on it thus far.
16:14 tcohen i'm not sure how it got so complicated
16:14 tcohen as far as i can see there are several use cases that need to be taken into account
16:14 tcohen and I think we should decouple the transport protocol from the URL
16:14 mtompset I was thinking of a rewrite, since I don't like the UI myself, but I didn't want to slow down its inclusion.
16:15 tcohen i promise to discuss it explicitly soon
16:15 tcohen something like
16:15 tcohen OPACProtocolConfig = http|https|httpbehindhttpsproxy|etc
16:16 tcohen anyway
16:16 tcohen anyone with something else to add?
16:16 ashimema 5010.. I tihnk push it soonre rather than later and lets fix it during the cycle if there are any further issues..
16:16 tcohen ashimema: I agree
16:16 ashimema it's well tested.. just touches lots of area we probabl won't spot otherwise.
16:16 mtompset Actually, tcohen. I was thinking of adding a SPLIT type to system preferences.
16:17 tcohen i think we should think explicitly on each use case
16:17 tcohen and make the sysprefs help the user figure which use case he/she's in
16:17 tcohen but I agree with ashimema, push soon, fix soon
16:18 mtompset A push now, gives us 2-3 months to fix. :)
16:18 tcohen please ping me if you feel your work is lagging too much
16:18 tcohen you are really too productive for a single person to go through all your work
16:19 tcohen =D
16:19 tcohen ok
16:19 tcohen #topic Set time of next meeting
16:19 Topic for #koha is now Set time of next meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 3 June 2015 - part 1)
16:20 tcohen #info we agreed to keep this two-part meeting schema, and a 3-week cycle
16:20 tcohen and to end this meeting
16:20 tcohen a message from my boss:
16:21 mtompset Who is too productive?
16:21 tcohen keep the good work guys
16:21 tcohen #endmeeting
16:21 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to the IRC home of Koha | Code of conduct -[…]/code-of-conduct/ |  Please use for pastes | Installation guide for Koha is
16:21 huginn Meeting ended Wed Jun  3 16:21:19 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
16:21 huginn Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-06-03-15.10.html
16:21 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]5-06-03-15.10.txt
16:21 huginn Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]03-15.10.log.html
16:21 mtompset CUTE!
16:21 tcohen he stole he's father's uke
16:22 tcohen later!
16:22 mtompset Chicks dig guitar players. :)
16:22 mtompset Bye, tcohen.
16:22 khall ahh!
16:47 indradg I've a question: is it acceptable to add an agenda item in a planned upcoming meeting's wiki page?
16:47 indradg or should it be left as a comment on the talk page?
16:49 mtompset Adding upfront is easier, because like RFC's, no one reads the Talk page. ;)
16:49 drojf joined #koha
17:05 gaetan_B bye
17:10 tcohen indradg: just write me
17:10 tcohen we have a trello board which has several things pending
17:32 Dyrcona joined #koha
17:33 TGoat joined #koha
17:34 indradg tcohen mail setnt
17:35 indradg s/setnt/sent
17:36 Dyrcona joined #koha
17:38 magnuse joined #koha
17:43 magnuse does this look reasonable? 130k records in marcxml = 563MB
17:45 tcohen i have a file 1.5M -> 1GB
17:45 tcohen but it of course depends on the size of the records :-P
17:46 Dyrcona I find MARCXML is often close to 10x the size of binary marc.
17:47 magnuse these records are pretty meaty, i think
17:48 magnuse they figured out a way to put some weird mini records inside the regular records...
17:48 magnuse swedes...
17:50 Dyrcona I take that back: 3-4x the size of binary marc.
17:51 Dyrcona I get about 1.3GB for binary MARC of 950,000 or so records with holdings information in 85x tags.
17:51 mtompset_ joined #koha
17:53 drojf magnuse: MARCtryoshka records?
17:53 Dyrcona drojf++
17:53 magnuse drojf: lol yes
17:53 magnuse more marc?
17:53 wahanui http://02varvara.files.wordpre[…]no-bear.jpg?w=800
17:53 magnuse marc?
17:53 wahanui marc is, like, the standard that isn't
17:55 S_Polka joined #koha
17:57 TGoat @later tell ashimema  - will you please tell me Koha, I understand that cash drawers will work in conjunction with the receipt printer. Is the equipment brand(s)/product(s) specific for the receipt printer and cash drawer? Can you setup with any general equipment brand(s)/product(s) for this so long as it has the available ports to allow daisy chaining the equipment? You can reach me at:
17:57 huginn TGoat: The operation succeeded.
18:02 * magnuse wanders off again
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18:20 talljoy_afk history question.  in what version was MARC incorporated into Koha?
18:22 talljoy_afk and retained?  (not broken apart)
18:22 pianohacker talljoy_afk: by not broken apart, you mean stored as binary/MARCXML as opposed to the single-row-per-subfield thing in 2.2?
18:23 talljoy_afk yes
18:23 * talljoy has narrowed it down to post 2.2
18:23 talljoy but i would think 3.0 since it would be a big change.
18:24 pianohacker looks like 3.0, yeah
18:29 tcohen 3.0 was zebra
18:29 tcohen MARC support was something big Paul introduced I recall
18:29 tcohen long before 3.0
18:30 talljoy 2.something then
18:33 tcohen talljoy:
18:33 tcohen paul_p++
18:34 talljoy paul_p++
18:34 pianohacker so marc was 1.4 and the marc/marcxml blob style was 3.0?
18:34 pianohacker paul_p++
18:46 misilot is it possible to import MARC files that are  ISO-8859-1 formatted?
18:47 tcohen misilot: you can do it using Z39.50
18:48 misilot not through the marc import tool though??
18:48 tcohen need to choose the correct encoding
18:48 tcohen ah
18:49 tcohen yes, you can choose ISO-8859-1
18:49 tcohen never tried though
18:49 misilot ah didn't see it there
18:49 misilot thanks tcohen
18:49 mtompset_ joined #koha
18:49 misilot guess I could always try and get the vendor to modify the format they send us ...
18:50 tcohen
18:50 misilot thanks tcohen
18:56 wnickc joined #koha
19:11 mtompset tcohen: Bug 8007
19:11 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8007 new feature, P5 - low, ---, matthias.meusburger, Pushed to Master , Discharge management
19:11 mtompset and bug 10900
19:11 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10900 normal, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Pushed to Master , Incorrect calling conventions accessing C4::Context
19:12 tcohen mtompset: already read my inbox
19:12 mtompset Ah, it made it there fast.
19:12 tcohen (i get emails for most of what happens on bugzilla)
19:12 mtompset Where should I submit the patch?
19:12 mtompset new report, right?
19:13 tcohen yes
19:13 tcohen mtompset: BTW, could you take a look at my followup fr bug 14256?
19:13 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=14256 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Tests for TestBuilder fail randomly
19:13 tcohen i saw you put your signature on the first patch
19:13 tcohen i'm not happy with the "most of the time" part of the first patch
19:14 mtompset tcohen: Sadly, I fear to touch that report now. :)
19:14 tcohen so intend to have a proper deterministic solution
19:14 mtompset But I may get around to it. No promises.
19:26 dani left #koha
19:59 pianohacker @later tell tcohen to revive an old discussion about JS translation; since we already have the format stuff working, would you object to an experimental patch that can translate strings in JS files? I do think it would make a noticeable difference in ease of development for larger JS stuff
19:59 huginn pianohacker: The operation succeeded.
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20:04 mtompset @later tell tcohen I hate trying to debug nested hash references. Something is wrong with the patch.
20:04 huginn mtompset: The operation succeeded.
20:04 mario joined #koha
20:22 indradg joined #koha
20:27 mtompset Have a great day, #koha
20:39 jmsasse joined #koha
20:40 jmsasse wnickc: Hello, are you going to Erie?
20:41 wnickc jmsasse: yes, need ot register
20:41 jmsasse good, me too.
20:43 jmsasse wnickc: When is the next nakug meeting? I didn't get an invite to the last one.
20:43 wnickc hmm..notice went oout on the lists
20:43 wnickc i think next thursday
20:44 wnickc jmsasse:[…]y_online_meetings
20:46 sophie_m joined #koha
20:46 jmsasse wnickc: thanks
20:47 jmsasse Has anyone noticed an issue with item types being incorrect in overdue notices?
21:11 magnuse joined #koha
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21:20 cait joined #koha
21:20 cait hi #koha
21:23 wnickc hi cait
21:23 cait hi wnickc :)
21:23 cait i got woried for a moment that everyone was gone!
21:24 wnickc just quiet :)
21:34 wizzyrea hi
21:35 pianohacker hi liz
21:35 wizzyrea oh hi! grats on the new job!
21:35 pianohacker thanks :)
21:35 wizzyrea new/old job :)
21:35 pianohacker heavy mix of both. Things change more than I expected when you go from 4 to 40 hours a week
21:35 * cait waves
21:35 pianohacker hi cait :)
21:36 pianohacker what are you up to these days, liz?
21:36 wizzyrea breaking stuff, fixing stuff, trying to make librarians happy :)
21:36 wizzyrea the usual
21:36 wizzyrea ^.^
21:37 pianohacker cool
21:40 tcohen joined #koha
21:41 tcohen @wunder cordoba, argentina
21:41 huginn tcohen: The current temperature in Bo Altos de San Martin - NW, Cordoba city, Cordoba City, Argentina is 20.2°C (6:40 PM ART on June 03, 2015). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 38%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Pressure: 29.97 in 1015 hPa (Rising).
21:42 cait tcohen: haven't read the logs yet :(
21:43 tcohen pianohacker: please show the translation manager your working idea.
21:43 tcohen i'm interested on it too, of course
21:43 pianohacker tcohen: Will do, thanks. Will CC you
21:44 wizzyrea pianohacker: what about you, what does bywater have you doing?
21:44 pianohacker wizzyrea: mix of a lot of things. SAML, Rancor, some smaller devs
21:44 wizzyrea nice :)
21:47 tcohen hi cait
21:47 mario joined #koha
21:51 indradg @wunder
21:51 huginn indradg: (wunder <US zip code | US/Canada city, state | Foreign city, country>) -- Returns the approximate weather conditions for a given city.
21:51 indradg @wunder kolkata
21:51 huginn indradg: The current temperature in Kolkata, India is 29.0°C (3:20 AM IST on June 04, 2015). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 84%. Dew Point: 26.0°C. Pressure: 29.62 in 1003 hPa (Falling).
21:54 rocio left #koha
22:01 cait can i get 5 minutes more? heh
22:01 cait not finished reading :)
22:03 cait done
22:05 cait tcohen: meeting?
22:05 wahanui i heard meeting was in two days, i thought was tomorrow. plenty of time then
22:08 tcohen hi
22:09 eythian hi
22:09 wahanui que tal, eythian
22:10 tcohen #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 3 June 2015 - part 2
22:10 huginn Meeting started Wed Jun  3 22:10:10 2015 UTC.  The chair is tcohen. Information about MeetBot at
22:10 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
22:10 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 3 June 2015 - part 2)
22:10 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_3_june_2015___part_2'
22:10 tcohen #topic Introductions
22:10 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
22:10 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 3 June 2015 - part 2)
22:10 tcohen please introduce yourselves using #info
22:10 wizzyrea #info Liz Rea, Catalyst
22:10 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi
22:11 eythian #info Robin Sheat, Catalyst IT, Wellington
22:11 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ
22:11 pianohacker #info Jesse Weaver, ByWater Solutions
22:11 indradg #info Indranil Das Gupta, India
22:12 tcohen last time part 2 was only eythian and dcook (half of him) so, pretty good
22:12 rangi #info Chris Cormack, Catalyst
22:12 tcohen ok
22:12 tcohen #topic RM 3.22 comments
22:12 Topic for #koha is now RM 3.22 comments (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 3 June 2015 - part 2)
22:13 tcohen I'll repeat myself from part 1
22:13 tcohen i've been really happy with the 3.20 release
22:14 tcohen we are upgrading to 3.20 really soon
22:14 wizzyrea \o/
22:14 tcohen i'd like to congratulate all of you for such a nice release
22:15 tcohen several month ago cool projects were started from several community members
22:15 eythian I think we have someone who'll be going prod on 3.20, too.
22:15 rangi yup, i upgraded them last night
22:15 tcohen and the posibility of them making it for the next release
22:15 tcohen could make it a major milestone for the project
22:16 tcohen for that to happen
22:16 tcohen we need to boost involvement from the dev team members in other people's projects
22:17 tcohen a full REST api, the posibility of using a web framework, Elastic Search, easier UI maintenance/coding/testing introducing angularjs, etc
22:17 tcohen lots of cool stuff that could even boost participation from younger people
22:18 tcohen anyway, the future looks exciting and efforts need to be done
22:18 tcohen all those words I wrote, need to be discussed, decisions made, and of course coded and tested
22:18 eythian that would be a huge release if all those were in there.
22:19 tcohen probably utopical, but something in that direction is quite possible
22:19 tcohen i might need to leave in a couple minutes oops
22:19 tcohen to the point
22:20 tcohen i'll try to keep a 3-week cycle for dev meetings
22:20 tcohen and as said on part 1
22:20 tcohen will set a trello board for the big stuff everyone is working on
22:20 eythian grump proprietary tools grump
22:20 tcohen jonathan proposed hosting our own libreboard
22:21 rangi yeah we could use libreboard or taiga
22:21 tcohen we were all open to that
22:21 rangi taiga is easy
22:21 tcohen if someone volunteers
22:21 tcohen the important thing is all of us having the whole picture of what's going on
22:21 rangi i reckon we could put taiga in our cloud eh eythian, just need to check, but i think it should be fine
22:21 eythian sure
22:21 pianohacker I'm going to wait to start volunteering bsw
22:21 pianohacker w
22:22 eythian I already add things to it without really asking :)
22:22 cait bsw?
22:22 pianohacker *bws's servers until I've been here a bit longer
22:22 cait oh
22:22 cait got it
22:22 pianohacker typing is hard
22:22 wizzyrea lol
22:22 eythian that's OK, our cloud people want it to be stress tested a bit :)
22:22 pianohacker m'excellent
22:22 eythian So I we look into it
22:22 eythian err
22:23 eythian you know what I meant. Typing is hard.
22:23 tcohen before I let cait chair, just wanted to mention that for the next topic, I promised to ask Julian Maurice to attend to a meeting soon, dedicated to the RESTful aPI, so we can discuss the current aproach and even make decisions about it
22:23 pianohacker see?
22:23 cait me chair?
22:23 tcohen #chair cait
22:23 huginn Current chairs: cait tcohen
22:23 tcohen cool
22:23 tcohen sorry, baby urgency
22:24 tcohen bbl
22:24 cait slightly unprepared
22:24 cait please help me a bit :)
22:24 cait so i tihnk that was the RM comments
22:24 pianohacker that does qualify. What's next on the agenda?
22:24 wizzyrea can't compete with baby urgency.
22:24 cait as he is gone, I suggest we move on
22:24 cait #topic Planning the 3.22 release
22:24 Topic for #koha is now Planning the 3.22 release (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 3 June 2015 - part 2)
22:24 eythian #action robin to look into hosting taiga
22:24 cait thx eythian
22:24 eythian (otherwise I'll forget)
22:25 cait does it record your actions or only mine?
22:25 eythian I have no idea
22:25 cait #action robin to look into hosting taiga
22:25 cait now it will be there no matter what
22:25 cait ok, i think we have heard about the trello/taiga idea
22:25 cait another idea i spotted in the logs is Blocker monday?
22:25 pianohacker I was curious about that as well
22:25 cait hassomeone here attended the first meeting as well?
22:26 pianohacker http://meetings.koha-community[…]-03-15.10.log.txt starting at 15:32:57
22:26 cait as I understood it the idea is to find some times for monday meetings to talk specifically about big developments blocking other developments and general blockers
22:26 cait kyle has started something like a survey on the mailing list
22:27 cait koha-devel - for anyone interested
22:27 cait there are a few big items listed on the agenda
22:27 cait #link[…]eting_3_June_2015
22:28 cait does someone want to add something to the list?
22:28 cait I think a quick update on the state of Elastic would be cool :)
22:28 pianohacker I don't think we have any of the big players for the restful api here
22:29 eythian cait: I've been delayed by other things, but Kathryn has now been fighting to get them out of my way, so I'm back on it pretty much only for a little while.
22:29 eythian Also, I have basic staff client searching working.
22:29 wizzyrea \o/
22:29 pianohacker excellent
22:29 wizzyrea kathryn++
22:29 * eythian needs to update his demo server.
22:29 cait kathryn++ :)
22:30 cait eythian: tell me when i can test again ;)
22:30 eythian suuuuuure ;)
22:30 eythian I'll probably do that today
22:30 wizzyrea hehe
22:30 cait #info ElasticSearch: basic staff client search works
22:30 cait #action eythian to update the elastic search demo server
22:31 cait so you don't forget :)
22:31 eythian heh
22:31 cait anyone about file upload?
22:31 cait note: it depends on the changes to opacbaseurl including the protocol i think
22:31 wizzyrea is there a bug # for that?
22:31 pianohacker woah, what changes to opacbaseurl?
22:31 * pianohacker <-- still out of the loop
22:32 * wizzyrea too
22:34 cait there is a mix now
22:34 cait somefeatures expect protocol to be part of the pref others not
22:34 cait i think basically trying to fix that up - but i haven't worked on it
22:35 cait bug 6847
22:35 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6847 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kohapatch, ASSIGNED , Bulk userid, password generation and email
22:35 pianohacker joy, okay.
22:35 cait oh not that one
22:35 cait bug 6874
22:35 wahanui rumour has it bug 6874 is epic
22:35 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Passed QA , Attach a file to a MARC record (Was: File upload in MARC)
22:35 cait bug 5010
22:35 wahanui it has been said that bug 5010 is scary
22:35 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5010 normal, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Passed QA , Fix OPACBaseURL to include protocol
22:36 pianohacker good gracious
22:36 cait comments? additions?
22:37 pianohacker only comment is that it should include the protocol
22:38 pianohacker we have some systems on https for their opac and some not, and while they should all arguably be https, we need to capture that
22:38 cait some need to be https, like when using shibboleth or cas i guess
22:38 indradg pianohacker +1
22:38 cait and in general... you shoudl be using https
22:38 cait ok if there is nothing else, we are moving on
22:38 cait #topic Action from last meeting
22:38 Topic for #koha is now Action from last meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 3 June 2015 - part 2)
22:39 cait hm looks like it's all been done
22:39 wizzyrea I have a comment >.<
22:39 wizzyrea on the opacbaseurl
22:39 wizzyrea I feel squidgy about it being in the sysprefs at all.
22:39 wizzyrea it should be in koha_conf
22:40 rangi i agree, moving it to the config file makes a lot more sense
22:40 pianohacker agreed
22:40 wizzyrea intranetbaseurl tool.
22:40 wizzyrea too*
22:40 rangi yup
22:41 wizzyrea my feeling is that we're still using it because "it's how we've always done it"
22:41 cait #idea move opacbaseurl and intranetbaseurl to koha_conf
22:41 cait i wonder if there are any implications for multi branch setups
22:41 wizzyrea baseurl has never been branch specific
22:41 cait but can't really think of something
22:41 wizzyrea there's only one pref :P
22:41 pianohacker how would we go about migrating that, though? Helper that checks the config then the syspref, and move it to the config for new installs?
22:41 cait are we ok about including the protocol?
22:42 pianohacker I'm in favor
22:42 eythian pianohacker: probably a fallback, yeah
22:42 cait maybe the code could be pushed then and in a second step move it
22:42 cait ihope the patches add consistency about the expected fomat
22:42 pianohacker cait: does the plan for that bug involve a migration that will prepend the protocol to the syspref if it's missing?
22:43 cait i haven'tchecked the code myself, i don't know
22:44 pianohacker looks like it, yes
22:44 pianohacker kk, good
22:45 cdickinson joined #koha
22:45 pianohacker cait: could I talk for a bit about Rancor after this?
22:45 cait sure :)
22:45 cait changed the topic too early i guess
22:46 cait #topic Planning the 3.22 release cont
22:46 Topic for #koha is now Planning the 3.22 release cont (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 3 June 2015 - part 2)
22:46 cait go ahead
22:47 pianohacker (quick refresher: Rancor is the code name for the professional cataloging interface for Koha that I've been working on for the past two years.)
22:47 pianohacker In a discussion with cait, she mentioned the possibility of bringing in Rancor as an experimental feature and hammering out the bugs as time goes on
22:48 pianohacker I was in favor of this, as my every-single-feature 4-page-long test plan that I posted on bug 11559 garnered, for some reason, little enthusiasm
22:48 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11559 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jweaver, Needs Signoff , Professional cataloger's interface
22:48 eythian heh
22:49 pianohacker I wanted to ask you all a) what you thought of this b) how we should mark Rancor as experimental within the UI and c) what I should provide to make this a possibility
22:49 cait hm not quite what i said :P
22:49 pianohacker glad I asked then :)
22:49 wizzyrea a. I like it, for something that big iterative is probably better.
22:49 eythian I think we should agree that cait said it.
22:49 pianohacker cait: in your words without my optimistic filter
22:50 cait itihnk we should still get it through the normal qa process, but it's big
22:50 cait so there will still things being missed probably
22:50 wizzyrea well, we should decide what it needs at an absolute minimum
22:50 wizzyrea UI wise, we should probably require that it be enabled somehow
22:50 wizzyrea syspref, probably
22:51 wizzyrea so that it absolutely does not get in the way of people who don't and won't ever want to use it.
22:51 cait what i said was that it was nice it's independent - so we don't need to worry too much if we can make sure it doesn't break existing features and doesn't create invalid data or something evil
22:51 cait there will be workarounds with the existing editor
22:51 pianohacker cait: okay, cool. That's generally what I was thinking
22:51 pianohacker +1 to liz's idea
22:51 wizzyrea but possibly also show a message on the cataloguing screen (or make an intranet news item?) that says "hey, there's a new cataloguing system help us out by testing it"
22:52 wizzyrea "here's how you do that, file your bugs here, thanks for your participation blah blah"
22:52 cait hm i'd maybe put in a staff news or soemthing in the release notes
22:52 cait having it constantly shw on cataloguing might get annoying :)
22:52 cait not sure there is a good place for iton those screen
22:52 cait s
22:53 wizzyrea I was thinking maybe only for superlibrarians
22:53 pianohacker I'm more in favor of the intranet news item as well
22:53 wizzyrea as they're the only ones with permissions to change sysprefs
22:53 wizzyrea but I'm not fussed either way ;)
22:54 pianohacker cait: would a test plan for the little bits and pieces of code that are touched outside Rancor itself, and the UI/syspref to enable/disable it be a good next step?
22:55 cait sorry,  I am a bit slow tonight
22:55 cait let me reread that sentence
22:55 wizzyrea I had a thought, maybe we should have a specific area in the sysprefs for "experimental features"
22:55 cait sounds good to me
22:56 cait if it really gets long, you might want to move the test plan outside bugzilla maybe
22:56 cait not sure where to put it, maybe the wiki
22:56 cait i find long text in bugzilla a bit hard to read at times
22:56 pianohacker cait: the test plan for the outside-rancor code in those patches will be waaaaay shorter than the test plan for rancor itself :)
22:56 cait that feeds my hope of it not breaking something :)
22:57 cait ok, anything else before we close?
22:57 cait #action pianohacker to add a test plan addendum for outside-rancor code being touched by the patches (bug 11559)
22:57 pianohacker cait: mind putting an action for the test plan and syspref to enable/disable?
22:57 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11559 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jweaver, Needs Signoff , Professional cataloger's interface
22:57 pianohacker heh, why thank you ;)
22:57 cait #action pianohacker to add a pref to turn off/on the new editor
22:58 cait ok? :)
22:58 pianohacker yup ypu
22:58 eythian whatever the continuation of an action is: I have a server for taiga built
22:58 cait can someone check if the last meeting already agreed on a date/time?
22:58 cait eythian++ :)
22:58 talljoy joined #koha
22:58 pianohacker cait: not in the posted log
22:58 wizzyrea #action pianohacker to add news item to notify koha users of experimental cataloguing interface
22:58 pianohacker thanks liz
22:58 cait hm in 3 weeks that would be
22:59 cait July 25th?
22:59 cait 15 and 22 utc again?
22:59 cait #topic Set date and time for next meeting
22:59 Topic for #koha is now Set date and time for next meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 3 June 2015 - part 2)
22:59 pianohacker oh nvm, I'm blind. But +1 to that date and time
22:59 cait any veto?
22:59 cait i will add it as a suggestion then and leave final decision to tcohen
23:00 cait i think they also talked about a meeting for the rest api next week
23:00 cait so plans might change
23:00 cait #info suggestion for the next meeting date: july 25th, 15 + 22 utc
23:00 cait #endmeeting
23:00 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to the IRC home of Koha | Code of conduct -[…]/code-of-conduct/ |  Please use for pastes | Installation guide for Koha is
23:00 huginn Meeting ended Wed Jun  3 23:00:47 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
23:00 huginn Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-06-03-22.10.html
23:00 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]5-06-03-22.10.txt
23:00 huginn Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]03-22.10.log.html
23:00 cait thx all for attending
23:01 wizzyrea thx cait
23:01 indradg thanks cait
23:01 pianohacker thanks cait
23:02 pianohacker wizzyrea: just to make sure I understand, would this experimental features sysprefs area have previously included things like granular permissions?
23:02 wizzyrea I don't think so? I'm not sure it's ever existed...
23:03 pianohacker right right, but if it had back when you could enable/disable granular permissions with a syspref
23:03 wizzyrea I don't know
23:03 wizzyrea :)
23:04 pianohacker okay, fair nuff
23:05 pianohacker good night all
23:08 wizzyrea have a good evening :)
23:09 talljoy wizzyrea had a library today ask why doesn't Koha store ALL the bits in a marc tag in individual fields in the database.  (ala 2.2)
23:10 eythian just that idea gives me nightmares
23:10 wizzyrea heh
23:10 talljoy right?
23:10 talljoy pianohacker started giggling maniacally.  ask him!
23:10 talljoy it was pretty funny.
23:10 * cait tries to imagine a clean database model for this and fails
23:10 talljoy yah.
23:11 eythian it wouldn't really be possible in any sane way, the structures are too different.
23:11 talljoy my mind goes to all the libraries who have unique needs.  No, put the publisher in the author field because we <insert crazy scheme>
23:11 talljoy so every library would have their 'own table structure'  and that makes me twitch.
23:11 wizzyrea sounds like a migration from something like dbtext
23:12 talljoy yah.
23:12 wizzyrea eythian would know better.
23:12 eythian yeah, a lot of things we see try to do something like that, and it's always half arsed.
23:12 talljoy i've done some text to marc migrations.
23:12 talljoy and it is not pretty to recreate marc from flat files.
23:13 talljoy but it does bring up the point about accessibility to data.  anyone working on 'linked data' and Koha?
23:13 talljoy working beyond marc?
23:13 eythian isn't that magnuse's ballywick?
23:13 talljoy then i need to talk to him.
23:14 talljoy i'll ping him in the morning.

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