Time Nick Message 00:00 mtompset Ah, thanks, rangi. 00:41 mtj hey #koha 00:43 mtj ping rangi, how would someone send a patch to the release-tools repo ? 00:43 mtj that one -> http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=release-tools.git;a=summary 00:44 mtj ..i was thinking of adding a README file to the repo, with that info in it :) 00:44 wizzyrea he's afk atm 00:45 mtj ..i also spotted some a few typos in the various 'release team' templates 00:46 mtj hey liz :0) 00:46 mtompset Greetings, mtj, wizzyrea. :) 00:47 mtj ..so, i could send up those corrections too ^ 00:48 wizzyrea no idea, probably something like clone the repo, make a bug, do the changes, then add the patch to a bug, like normal? 00:48 mtj hiya mtompset 00:48 wizzyrea you could get rangi to make a component for that 00:49 wizzyrea or use the Developer Documentation component 00:49 mtj i checked on bugzilla, but could not find any history of release-tool bugs/patches 00:50 wizzyrea I wouldn't let that stop you from doing it 00:50 wizzyrea it just means no one has. 00:50 wizzyrea better to beg forgiveness than ask permission. 00:51 mtompset who is MJR? 00:51 wizzyrea what's the context 00:51 mtompset I was reading code, and saw a comment. 00:51 mtj mjray 00:51 * wizzyrea knows more than one with those initials, so thought better to check before asserting that 00:52 wizzyrea but mtj is probably right 00:52 mtompset In fact, I saw it on a location, which I accidentally triggered by testing incorrectly. 00:52 mtompset And I was like: we should make it die meaningfully. 00:53 mtompset And lo and behold... there's a comment in the location by MJR. :) 00:53 mtj wizzyrea: thanks, ill wait for rangi's advice 1st 00:54 mtompset @seen mjray 00:54 huginn mtompset: I have not seen mjray. 00:54 mtompset @seen mjr 00:54 huginn mtompset: I have not seen mjr. 00:54 wizzyrea his nick will be slef 00:54 mtompset AH! slef! 00:54 mtompset @seen slef 00:54 huginn mtompset: slef was last seen in #koha 1 week, 5 days, 13 hours, 33 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: <slef> Joubu: thanks. I'll try. 00:59 mtj hey mtompset, great work on your tidyup patches too :) 00:59 mtj ive seen loads of them recently 00:59 mtompset Thank you. There are still a couple more needing testing/sign off. 00:59 mtompset I haven't gotten further yet. 01:00 mtj it can be quite satisfitying to fix those annoying little warns! :) 01:00 mtompset Firefox update... let's see if this breaks... 01:01 mtompset Not so bad... just a blip. :) 01:01 mtj ive recently switchd to the dev-edition of firefox, its waay better 01:02 mtj ive managed to give up firebug, the built-in dev tools seems to be good enuff 01:02 mtj a bit faster than firebug too, i think? 01:02 wizzyrea they are quirky sometimes 01:02 wizzyrea follow the old adage 01:03 wizzyrea try turning it off and on again 01:03 wizzyrea < has some experience with that 01:03 talljoy evening/morning koha 01:03 wizzyrea afternoon really, but hi 01:03 wizzyrea :) 01:04 talljoy well it's a well established fact i struggle with the time 01:04 talljoy so good afternoon. 01:04 talljoy :-D 01:04 wizzyrea most clever people do 01:04 wizzyrea :) 01:05 talljoy i should just try this from now on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWcZKrP2sDU 01:09 rangi mtj: you could send a patch to me, tcohen, jcamins, gmcharlt or paulp im happy to apply a patch and push it 01:09 rangi hey talljoy 01:10 talljoy hi rangi 01:10 talljoy i haven't talked to you all in NZ in quite a while. 01:10 rangi true 01:10 mtj hiya talljoy 01:11 talljoy hi mtj 01:12 mtj can we use an issue tracker? 01:12 mtj oops, rangi ^ :) 01:12 mtj ..for the release-tools repo 01:13 rangi i could add a new product to bugzilla, but i fear it would confuse people and we would get bugs lodged in the wrong place 01:13 wizzyrea I wondered if maybe using the developer documentation component would do 01:13 wizzyrea or a new component for release tools 01:13 wizzyrea (like I have for the website) 01:14 mtj rangi: i would add a new component 01:14 rangi pretty much whoever is the release manager is the only one updating it, id probably just send a patch to tcohen, its changed 6 times this year .. its not a high change thing and i think we would be just making unnessecary overhead for ourselves 01:15 mtj ..just add a big sexxy description, about what it is.. and is not 01:15 rangi yeah nah im not convinced adding stuff to the koha bug tracker that is only tangentially related to koha is actually helpful 01:16 mtj rangi: its commit activity is chicken/egg problem 01:16 rangi not really 01:16 rangi its not somethign that should be changing much, it should be super stable 01:16 rangi i dont want it broken when i have to do a release 01:16 eythian put it on gitlab and allow pull requests from there? 01:16 mtj ..no-one is sending patches, coz no-one knows where to send them 01:16 mtompset The chicken/egg problem was solved. I believe they said it was chicken, because of a protein that wouldn't otherwise exist in the process. ;) 01:16 rangi gitlab might work 01:17 * mtj speaks from personal experience here ^ 01:17 mtj gitlab sounds great... problem solved? 01:18 rangi should put it on the agenda for a meeting 01:18 rangi personally i dont want lots of people touching the release tools 01:18 rangi just the release manager and maintainers, and there is most 4 of them 01:20 mtj yep, i agree 01:53 * talljoy walks over to the release tools and holds finger one cm away. "I'm not touching them" 01:53 talljoy can you tell i raised two boys? 01:53 talljoy rangi do your boys do that kind of silly stuff? 01:54 rangi yeah 01:54 rangi the worst is "get that off the couch" so they walk over and push it onto the floor 01:54 talljoy HA 01:54 talljoy sometimes it is so annoying. and sometimes i applaud their creativity 01:54 rangi hehe yep 01:55 talljoy like when i said "keep your hands to yourself" and the one thought about it and then ran up to the other and hit him with his stomach 01:55 talljoy knocked him flat on his back. 01:55 talljoy i applaud you sir! 01:55 rangi heh 01:56 talljoy signing off. later koha 01:56 rangi cya later 01:56 wizzyrea hehe later 02:19 mtj lol, thats classic 02:27 mtompset Have a great day, #koha rangi wizzyrea mtj 02:28 wizzyrea later 02:48 eythian @seen cnighswonger 02:48 huginn eythian: I have not seen cnighswonger. 02:48 eythian @seen chris_n 02:48 huginn eythian: chris_n was last seen in #koha 3 weeks, 4 days, 9 hours, and 21 seconds ago: <chris_n> @later tell khall I'll have to hold off on testing 14167 due to a stubborn zebra instance 02:49 eythian @later tell chris_n Not sure if any of these affect us, but it'd be worth keeping in mind. I'll see about updating it when a new release is made. 02:49 huginn eythian: The operation succeeded. 02:49 eythian @later tell chris_n https://github.com/cnighswonger/PDF-Reuse/pull/6 02:49 huginn eythian: The operation succeeded. 04:06 eythian wahanui: danger danger is <reply>High voltage! 04:06 wahanui OK, eythian. 04:19 wizzyrea I went to see electric six once 04:20 eythian was there a nuclear war? 04:20 wizzyrea there were glowing breasts :P 04:20 wizzyrea [off] not mine though eek. 04:21 eythian heh 04:21 eythian hrm, faceting of itype is awkward when we have both 952$y and 942$c 04:21 wizzyrea yeah it is 04:22 * eythian creates a note to think about it another time. 04:23 wizzyrea I suppose it would depend on whether you have item or biblio level itemtypes enabled 04:23 wizzyrea which you facet on 04:24 eythian yeah. But it's very hard to abstract that out so you're not hardcoding things. 04:25 eythian I kinda wonder if I should have a little predicate column in the database that lets you compare system preferences. 04:25 wizzyrea * to think about 05:57 * magnuse waves 06:04 * cait waves 06:05 magnuse kia ora cait 06:05 * magnuse hopes this switch to dom works 06:08 magnuse woohoo http://bywatersolutions.com/2015/06/02/jessew-welcome/ 06:14 magnuse gah, file permissions issue, one more try at reindexing 06:15 dcook I think I finally understand UTF-8, Unicode, Latin1... 06:16 dcook Or at least I do for a few minutes today 06:16 magnuse no error messages after exporting - looks promising 06:16 magnuse dcook: then you are a very lucky man :-) 06:16 dcook I know, right? I'm sure I'm missing something 06:17 magnuse hehe, yeah that is the feeling i always have when it comes to that stuff :-) 06:17 dcook At the moment, I'm looking at the byte Oxff. 06:17 dcook Technically illegal in UTF-8 06:17 dcook But U+00FF is a Unicode code point for the character ÿ 06:18 dcook Which is character 255 in latin1 06:18 dcook Or byte 0xFF 06:19 dcook But to get ÿ in UTF-8, it needs to be encoded as c3 bf 06:19 dcook So you might see "ÿ" in your terminal or your log and think that's OK because it's a Unicode/UTF-8 character... 06:19 dcook But your terminal is probably encoding the data at Latin1 06:19 dcook And your PostgreSQL which is using UTF-8 encoding is going to explode 06:20 magnuse lulz 06:20 dcook Because 0xff doesn't mean "ÿ" in UTF-8. It's something else... relating to BOMs I think. 06:20 dcook It's even more special in Perl, as I think there's some sort of internal magic for handling characters lower than 256 in a sort of automagical way 06:21 dcook Mmm and Perl outputs latin1 by default 06:21 dcook So there's so many layers O_O 06:21 dcook Perl encoding the bytes in the original output, your terminal trying to make sense of that output, other programs trying to make sense of that output 06:22 * dcook wishes that everything was just in UTF-8 so no one had to worry 06:32 * magnuse too 06:33 magnuse eythian++ for "koha-stop-zebra, pkill zebra, koha-start-zebra" 06:34 reiveune hello 06:38 magnuse bonjour reiveune 06:39 dcook Hmm, thought I had it but I lost it again 06:39 dcook Well, I mean... I had that part 06:39 reiveune salut dcook magnuse 06:40 dcook hey reiveune 06:40 wahanui reiveune is working for biblibre 06:41 cait bbiab 06:57 alex_a bonjour 06:57 wahanui kia ora, alex_a 07:05 drojf morning #koha 07:08 magnuse moin drojf 07:08 drojf hei magnuse 07:21 fridolin hie there 07:28 Joubu Good morning #koha 07:36 magnuse bonjour fridolin Joubu 07:37 gaetan_B hello 07:37 fridolin bonjour magnuse 07:49 indradg hi magnuse, fridolin, Joubu, gaetan_B 07:51 magnuse namoshkaar indradg 08:15 nlegrand hey #koha o/ 08:20 rangi evening all 08:24 rangi how to understand nzers, in 2 images http://imgur.com/gallery/w1kQhf2 and http://imgur.com/gallery/UfkzKry 08:25 drojf later #koha 08:26 indradg rangi++ for pushes into 3.20.1 :) 08:34 magnuse rangi: nice 08:35 Joubu He clearly deserved a couple of beers :) 09:08 Joubu cait: around? 09:23 cait only for a quick moment 09:24 cait last day before vacation today 09:24 cait but i will be around tomorrow and friday - with more koha time then i hope 09:31 ashimema @later tell khall any chance you could re-QA 13644 now he's made the fixes pretty please :) 09:31 huginn ashimema: The operation succeeded. 09:32 magnuse bug 13644 09:32 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13644 trivial, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Paging Javascript breaks links with anchor 09:32 ashimema pants.. 09:32 ashimema 13664 09:32 ashimema but 13664 09:32 ashimema bug 13664 09:32 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13664 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, david.roberts, Signed Off , Add password strength plugin 09:32 ashimema wrong number.. silly me 09:33 magnuse ah 09:33 ashimema @later tell khall woops, thats 13664 not 13644 09:33 huginn ashimema: The operation succeeded. 09:34 ashimema David is one of our support guys who I bullied into taking on that peice of dev work to take it off my pile.. he's a tad scared aobut having to rebase again.. not the best at git.. though e's getting there.. don't want to put him off too soon though ;) 09:34 Joubu ashimema: it's on my list 09:34 ashimema awesome.. thanks joubu 09:35 ashimema @later tell pianohacker I'm aware of the shibboleth bug.. pretty sure I've fixed it somewhere.. let me dig it out 09:35 huginn ashimema: The operation succeeded. 09:50 kivilahtio We are setting up a GitHub Oraganization to publish our KohaFinland source code, and I am not very familiar on how to best do that in GitHub. 09:50 kivilahtio I was planning to create a remote branch to github pointing to the koha-community's git-server 09:51 kivilahtio then use that branched koha-community to act as the KohaFinland master branch 09:51 kivilahtio is this even possible in github? 09:53 kivilahtio I see tcohen has a mirrored and synced Git repo from koha-community master 09:53 mtj hiya kivilahtio 09:53 kivilahtio mtj: hi 09:53 wahanui hey, kivilahtio 09:53 kivilahtio hi wahanui 09:54 mtj kivilahtio: i think its possible ^ 09:54 kivilahtio mtj: but should i :) 09:55 mtj i dont think it matters where you publish your repo 09:55 kivilahtio mtj: we chose GitHub, since it is easiest I hope 09:56 mtj are you planning use github for developing your koha too? 09:56 kivilahtio so far we have been just tar-gz:ing a LXC-container and making that tar available 09:56 kivilahtio mtj: yes 09:56 kivilahtio mtj: we share all our code 09:56 kivilahtio mtj: We are forming the virtual office for several municipalities in Finland to work together 09:57 mtj people seem to be recommending gitlab over github 09:57 kivilahtio mtj: Just configured Redmine to server projectmanagement and issues and wiki. Set up sftp with Nginx as front end for file sharing. IRC for chat 09:57 kivilahtio webRTC for conferencing 09:57 kivilahtio gitlab... 09:57 wahanui it has been said that gitlab is really interesting. 09:58 mtj ..you can selfhost your gitlab repo on your own servers - something not possible with github 09:58 kivilahtio mtj: I could just fork tcohens koha mirror :) 09:59 mtj webRTC is great, hey :) 09:59 kivilahtio mtj: I know. Farewell Spyware Skype 10:01 mtj https://github.com/Koha-Community/Koha 10:01 mtj kivilahtio: thats another synced koha mirror too 10:01 kivilahtio yes, I guess i just track that 10:01 kivilahtio a goodread http://www.gitguys.com/topics/tracking-branches-and-remote-tracking-branches/ 10:02 kivilahtio mtj: Thanks for the help. I think I can manage from now on. 10:02 kivilahtio mtj: But I need to check gitlab out 10:03 mtj ^ me too, i havent used it myself... it looks very promising! 10:04 mtj https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GitLab 11:31 cait holger++ 11:31 cait bug 14101 11:31 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14101 major, P5 - low, ---, h.meissner.82, Needs Signoff , auto renewal is tied to 'no renewal before' 12:22 tcohen morning 12:23 tcohen hi Joubu 12:24 Joubu Hi Tomas! 12:24 kivilahtio hi Joubu and tcohen! 12:24 tcohen hi kivilahtio 12:26 tcohen Joubu: I made a mistake with my patch for TestBuilder, I already put ->unique_constrains_columns but i dropped it on a refactoring 12:26 kivilahtio ooo... what is a TestBuilder? 12:26 tcohen *->unique_contrains 12:27 kivilahtio TestBuilder sounds like it has something to do about setting up the test context 12:27 kivilahtio a bit like TestObjectFactories? 12:27 cait tcohen: i will miss the first dev meeting :( 12:27 tcohen oh noes, who willl chair then!!! 12:27 tcohen :-P 12:27 cait hm you? :) 12:28 tcohen heh 12:28 tcohen yeah, just kidding 12:28 tcohen Joubu: i'll post a new patch in a couple minutes 12:28 magnuse kivilahtio: bug 12603 12:28 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12603 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, yohann.dufour, Pushed to Master , TestBuilder - Module to simplify the writing of tests 12:28 kivilahtio magnuse: yup, reading... 12:30 Joubu kivilahtio: you should follow the koha-devel ML 12:30 kivilahtio Joubu: I know 12:30 kivilahtio Joubu: but the important thing is that this made it to master! 12:47 tcohen Joubu: i think TestBuilder it cannot be fixed without a major refactoring 12:50 chris_n @later tell eythian it probably does; there are quite a few fixes in the queue which I plan to roll up into a new release toward the end of July 12:50 huginn chris_n: The operation succeeded. 13:04 xarragon If I want to customize the appearance of Koha I can ofc. use the custom CSS, but beyond that I can change the .less files.. But when I want to change settings inside bootstrap.css, is that generated from any other source? 13:04 * mtompset whispers, "Greetings, #koha." 13:05 xarragon There appears to be no less source for opac-tmpl/bootstrap/lib/bootstrap/ 13:05 magnuse xarragon: bootstrap.css sounds like it is provided by bootstrap? 13:05 * nengard heard mtompset 13:05 nengard :) 13:05 * mtompset smiles at nengard. :) 13:06 magnuse so to change things that are set there, override them with the custom css sysprefs 13:09 mtompset Development meeting in roughly 2 hours, right? 13:10 xarragon magnuse: I have tried changing in both, so far the CSS override works as long as i choose the correct selectors. I was just curious if there is a way to implement plugins or alternative themes? 13:11 magnuse xarragon: sorry, dunno 13:11 magnuse @seen oleonard 13:11 huginn magnuse: oleonard was last seen in #koha 13 weeks, 4 days, 19 hours, 16 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <oleonard> That's very strange squash. I'm sorry, I don't know what's going on. 13:12 mtompset xarragon: Did you try important? I find sometimes that CSS word is... important. :) 13:14 xarragon mtompset: Hah, no, I saw it on the wiki page and in the source. I am just experimenting with restyling Koha to match the municipal home page and wanted to understand the output flow and the limitations of CSS overrides. I might need to move elements around etc. 13:15 xarragon Am I correct in assuming that bootstrap itself limits the layout a bit, in order to maintain the responsive design features etc? 13:15 tcohen Joubu: if there is a multi-column primary key we need to have this check outside _buildColumnValue 13:16 * tcohen will leave this for another one, and focus on RM duties 13:30 magnuse am i the only one bothered by bug 12488? 13:30 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12488 trivial, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , bulkmarcimport.pl -d option should use DELETE instead of TRUNCATE 13:36 * magnuse shrugs and wanders off 13:50 mtompset magnuse: Never noticed the bug before. 13:53 mtompset There. I commented on it. :) 13:57 tcohen Joubu: do u have any idea why a default set of values is a good idea for TestBuildes? 13:57 * tcohen has headaches 14:00 Joubu Just to simplify :) 14:00 Joubu No need to provide something you don't care 14:01 tcohen but what if the DB is already populated with some data that matches the defaults? 14:01 tcohen it would give a false negative on the tests 14:01 Joubu yes 14:01 Joubu that's an issue 14:02 Joubu I tried to provide a workaround with the last patch 14:02 Joubu it's not perfect but should work in 99.99% 14:02 tcohen i moved my check for multi-column primary keys 14:02 tcohen and the issue was a collision with the defaults :-D 14:03 pastebot "tcohen" at 172.16.248.212 pasted "Joubu: like this" (29 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/128 14:05 tcohen otoh, the same applies for the use case when you need (say) a branch for your tests: your tests would end-up failing if you already have one 14:06 tcohen it seems to me that generating random data and using that on the tests would be simpler and cleaner 14:20 Joubu tcohen: I didn't get it 14:20 Joubu TestBuilder will generate random data to reuse them in the tests 14:20 Joubu the only issues is when the generated data already existed 14:21 Joubu -s 14:22 pastebot "tcohen" at 172.16.248.212 pasted "Joubu: full version" (42 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/129 14:26 Joubu tcohen: yep, that's make sense to me, except the unique keys should be managed too 14:29 tcohen Joubu: I agree, but right now I'm dealing with a weird error 14:29 tcohen if you use my _buildColumnValues 14:29 tcohen the tests break 14:29 tcohen i'm not sure why 14:29 tcohen SQL syntax problem 14:36 * mtompset randomly says, "I blame the semicolon and spacing." 14:45 tcohen oh boy 14:46 mtompset oh entity of non-descript gender, sentience, race, religion, etc? 14:46 tcohen if we use DBIx to deal with inserting data on the DB, and we get SQL syntax errors... 14:46 mtompset I fear to hear what is next. 14:47 tcohen it has to be a DBIx bug 14:48 * tcohen is not feeling guilty anymore 14:49 Joubu tcohen: always on the same thing? 14:49 tcohen yes 14:49 tcohen can u try? 14:49 Joubu ha, ok 14:49 Joubu I fixed it 14:49 Joubu sorry, I though you switched to something else 14:49 tcohen what did u fix? 14:50 Joubu my computer is taking off 14:50 Joubu wait 30sec :) 14:50 tcohen you attached a drone to it? 14:50 Joubu no, just launched TestBuilder tests 14:51 Joubu actually the problem is that you test assigned a hashref, instead of a string 14:51 Joubu because permissions.module_bit is a fk and a pk 14:51 tcohen _you're talking about my _buildColumnValues ? 14:52 Joubu so in your loop l.~179, $col_values->{$column} is a hashref 14:52 Joubu try: 14:52 Joubu 180 next if ref($col_values->{$column}) eq 'HASH'; 14:52 * mtompset jokes, "Get a room!" :) 14:52 Joubu with the last version you pasted 14:53 tcohen i'm not sure I'm following you 14:55 pastebot Someone at 127.0.0.1 pasted "tcohen: like this :)" (43 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/130 14:55 Joubu tcohen: the only changes with yours is next if ref($col_values->{$column}) eq 'HASH'; 14:56 Joubu is/are +s -s, blame me... 14:57 tcohen my computer is taking offf too 14:58 tcohen it loops forever 14:58 Joubu I think so yes 14:58 Joubu while 1 { foreach { foreach } } => usually it's not a good idea :) 14:59 tcohen the problem is that is picking the default value for 'bit' 14:59 tcohen on each run 14:59 tcohen and it is a primary key 15:00 * mtompset notes that it is approaching DEV meeting time. :) 15:00 tcohen on 'userflags' 15:01 tcohen i still think the problem is default data 15:01 Joubu tcohen: yes it is 15:02 tcohen back to that later 15:02 * tcohen will prepare some coffee and be back 15:02 tcohen for the meeting 15:05 ashimema hello tcohen 15:06 ashimema sounds like I should get a cuppa tea then 15:06 fridolin see u 15:07 tcohen oh noes 15:07 tcohen frido, come back! 15:07 tcohen hi ashimema 15:08 AmitG hi all 15:09 tcohen we are waiting for ashimema's tea to be ready 15:09 tcohen it'd be 3 more minutes, right? 15:09 tcohen :-D 15:09 ashimema lol 15:09 AmitG hi tcohen 15:09 ashimema i got weighleighed on the way to the kitchen.. no tea for me :( 15:09 ashimema but I'm here now at least 15:10 tcohen #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 3 June 2015 - part 1 15:10 huginn Meeting started Wed Jun 3 15:10:26 2015 UTC. The chair is tcohen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:10 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 15:10 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_3_june_2015___part_1' 15:10 tcohen #topic Introductions 15:10 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 15:10 tcohen please introduce yourself with #info 15:10 khall #info Kyle M Hall, ByWater Solutions 15:10 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Universidad Nacional de Córdoba 15:10 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart 15:11 bgkriegel #info Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel 15:11 ColinC #info Colin Campbell, PTFS-Europe 15:11 AmitG #info Amit Gupta, Informatics Bangalore, India 15:11 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe 15:11 tcohen hurry everyone 15:11 tcohen heh 15:12 mtompset #info Mark Tompsett 15:12 tcohen ok then 15:12 tcohen #topic RM 3.22 comments 15:13 tcohen I'd like to congratulate everyone for the 3.20, has been pretty solid since the beggining 15:13 tcohen we are upgrading soon here 15:13 ashimema tcohen++ we're only as good as our leader ;) 15:14 andreashm #info Andreas Hedström Mace, Stockholm University Library 15:14 tcohen the next release might became a major milestone for the project 15:14 tcohen if we look at the stuff we are trying to have ready soon 15:14 * mtompset mumbles, "4.0?" 15:14 tcohen i'm really excited about all this, and I know most of the community shares this feeling 15:15 nengard #info Nicole Engard, ByWater Solutions 15:15 tcohen as someone told me a while back: we need to enjoy developing Koha too, not only bugfixes 15:15 * nengard agrees with mtompset 15:15 talljoy #info Joy Nelson, ByWater Solutions 15:15 tcohen we need to put our hands on cool new stuff, points of view 15:16 tcohen most of us have thought what all that means 15:16 tcohen some are excited to have a RESTful API 15:16 edveal #info Ed Veal, Bywater Solutions 15:16 tcohen some because we might be introducing the use of a web framework for some parts of the project 15:16 tcohen and of course, ElasticSearch :-D 15:17 barton #info Barton Chittenden, BWS, Louisville, KY, USA 15:17 tcohen to have all those pieces put together at some point 15:17 tcohen we need to join efforts, and coordinate actions 15:18 AmitG tcohen++ 15:18 misilot #info Thomas Misilo, Florida Institute of Technology 15:18 tcohen we all want Koha to shine more and more on each release 15:18 nengard koha++ 15:18 dani #info Dani BWS,Cedar Park, TX, USA 15:18 tcohen so we need to make hard decisions too, because of course several pov are in place on each decision 15:19 tcohen so 15:19 tcohen to the point 15:20 tcohen i think it good be great to have a big picture of what our expectations are for the 3.22 (?) release 15:20 tcohen i mean what will everyone be working on 15:20 ashimema sounds good to me. 15:20 tcohen we have a proof of concept for a restful api on mojo 15:21 tcohen we have a wip branch on catalyst repo for the elasticsearcg 15:21 tcohen work 15:21 tcohen that'd be the next topic i think 15:21 tcohen so to the point 15:21 tcohen i'm happy with how promising this looks 15:22 tcohen and am proposing a 3 week cycle for dev meetings 15:22 tcohen it'd be awesome to have short scrum-like daily meetings 15:22 tcohen we can do it informally 15:23 carmen #info Carmen Hernandez, Bywater Solutions 15:23 tcohen #info the RM will try to keep a 3-week frecquency for dev meetings 15:23 tcohen questions? 15:23 wahanui questions are good :) 15:24 tcohen wahanui: you are right 15:24 wahanui ...but wahanui is a bot|a repository of important and useful and accurate information or at least partially slow.|a little bit creepy.|right sometimes|a strange duck|a bot.... 15:24 Joubu I would be good to know who is working on what 15:24 tcohen would you all agree to have a shared Trello board where we share what we are working on? 15:24 Joubu and to have a planning 15:25 ashimema Trello is great for this sort of thing. 15:25 Joubu We already tried a trello board, it was not a success 15:25 nengard tcohen would would we give our info to to be included on that? 15:25 barton Part of our daily work-flow at BWS is to send out a "what I'm working on" email, this works fairly well in place of actual stand-up meetings. 15:25 nengard I thought trello was a success at the hackfest 15:25 Joubu (Maybe prefer http://libreboard.com/ ?) 15:25 tcohen we used/use trello for several things 15:26 tcohen my trello board was a mess 15:26 tcohen but Katrin's shined 15:26 tcohen :-D 15:26 tcohen i think each team/company has its own tools for this 15:26 tcohen but we might have a general board to have the whole picture 15:27 tcohen so on each meeting we can ask about progress, etc 15:27 andreashm Slack? 15:27 misilot Possibly this: https://www.atlassian.com/solutions/agile-ready (I haven't used this product from Atlassian but I have used others) and free for open source (https://www.atlassian.com/software/views/open-source-license-request) 15:27 tcohen nengard: i'll add anyone interested 15:28 Joubu (libreboard is open source and can be hosted, that's why I suggest that, but not the point now) 15:29 andreashm Whatever board if would be good if it was open so interested parties can see what's going on 15:29 ashimema The real point is making sure we all use it and maintain it.. 15:29 tcohen libreboard looks good 15:29 tcohen yeah 15:29 ashimema the wiki RFC's would work, if everyone actually looked at them.. for example. 15:29 nengard "if" is the key word :( 15:30 ashimema I like the kanban approach of trello et al personally, means you can get the 'jist' of somthings state at a glance 15:30 barton I agree that which tool we use isn't as important as actually using the tool we choose... 15:30 andreashm RFC's are hard to read to see what is going on. wall of text. 15:30 nengard barton++ 15:30 nengard ashimema++ 15:31 Joubu We need 1 entry point for all wip, a whatever-board is excellent for that. 15:31 tcohen ashimema++ 15:31 Joubu ok, same as ashimema :) 15:31 andreashm ashimema++ 15:31 tcohen proposal: I'll set a TRello board for what we are working on for the 3.22 release cycle 15:31 tcohen if anyone has a better idea, we just move there 15:31 ColinC helps sometimes to clarify what x is tracking 15:32 ashimema there's two things to track that state of.. Proposition -> Coding -> QA -> Push.. is one workflow.. but often things sit in the 'Coding' pile for a long time without much update.. that's where the meetings come in.. a vocal.. yup.. we are actualyl still working on it.. few weeks away.. type thing 15:32 * mtompset agrees that no one reads RFCs. 15:32 * khall also confirms that 15:32 * nengard does for documentation sake :) 15:32 barton I also think that posting blockers is an important part of running standup meetings. Having an established time/place to get questions looked at can be very powerful. 15:32 nengard but that's after it's in Koha 15:33 * mtompset notes that nengard is a special exception. :) 15:33 tcohen #info Tomas will set a provisional Trello board where people will document what are they working on at a given time 15:33 * nengard likes being special 15:33 ashimema the RFC's are an important step.. but they are entirely about drawing up a spec and agreeing upon it.. they shouldn't be used after that fro tracking current state.. once an RFC has been agreed we souhld think of it as effectively locked... and then we use trello or whatever to track the actual dev progress 15:33 nengard tcohen++ 15:33 tcohen #info this could be moved to another tool if someone volunteers to set it 15:34 ashimema nengard++ I agree there.. 15:34 khall ashimema++ 15:34 ashimema blockers are important to get out in the open 15:34 indradg #info Indranil Das Gupta, India 15:34 ashimema barton++ even, it was you who mentioned blockers 15:34 tcohen should we have a column for blockers? (sounds messy, though) 15:35 ashimema thinks like the accounts re-write.. it's not yet in koha.. but is a major blocker for a whole bunch of us now saceed to go anywhere near accounts for worry of having to re-write when it goes in ;) 15:36 ashimema I would say a 'Blocked' column mre like tcohen. 15:36 khall indeed, there are a number of open bugs that the accounts rewrite would resolve with no other changes 15:36 tcohen maybe we could set mondays to talk about blockers, informally 15:36 ashimema so, things that can't move on yet sit in there 15:36 ashimema sounds good to me 15:36 pianohacker here but not putting my name in, have to disappear for a conference call in 20 15:37 barton I like that idea. 15:37 indradg sounds good 15:39 khall good idea 15:39 tcohen can i say we agreed to explicitly talk about blockers on mondays? 15:40 ashimema ++ 15:40 khall yes, will there be a time window, or will it be all day? 15:41 pianohacker brb coffee 15:41 barton I think that it should be all day -- that way we don't have to worry so much about the international audience. 15:42 tcohen #info mondays will become "blockers day", we'll raise concerns about possible blockers and try to coordinate efforts for fixing them 15:42 barton maybe we could tag the blockers in IRC, to make them easier to filter from the logs. 15:42 khall barton: I agreed time zone issues make it tough, but I'm afraid if we don't narrow down the times to one or two windows we won't be effective 15:43 ashimema I'm almost tempted to say it's mroe about having a key contact than a time and place.. 15:43 ashimema hmm.. 15:43 * ashimema thinks loudly 15:44 tcohen i think it is fair to assume the RM will be available during his office hours to account possible bockers and as fr help if needed 15:44 khall if we can get a group or groups of devs to agree to some general times that would go a long way 15:44 barton If we used something like "BLOCKER: " to as a marker, could we then filter those out to an email to koha-dev? 15:44 tcohen khall: +1 15:44 indradg khall +1 15:45 barton khall +1 15:45 barton ['course he hears that from me all day long] 15:45 khall : ) 15:45 tcohen so, we could say the dev team members should send alerts on possible blockers to the dev list with a BLOCKER mark on the subject 15:46 tcohen as barton said 15:46 tcohen well, as ashimema said, this is a methodological problem 15:47 mtompset asynchronous communication does work too. Not everything needs sychronous. 15:47 khall can't hurt, but I like the idea of the blocker trello column to quickly see all those blockers at once best. 15:47 tcohen i'd say anyone willing to help with blockers should show up on "blocker day" to help and discuss solutions 15:47 ashimema sounds good 15:48 tcohen and yes, we will have that column 15:48 tcohen #info 'blocker days' are for people willing to help with blockers to show up and discuss solutions to blocker bugs 15:48 khall can we start an dev-list email thread for devs to list the times they can be available? That way we can come up with specific windows where a decent sized group of devs will be around 15:49 tcohen would you send that email? 15:49 tcohen :-D 15:50 khall I'm writing at right now ; ) 15:50 tcohen ok, moving on 15:50 tcohen next topic is too wide 15:50 tcohen #topic Planning the 3.22 release 15:51 tcohen we already talked about how will we deal with big stuff we are working on 15:51 tcohen so I think it is time to hear from people working on that stuff, how is it going, what do they think about the timeframe fr the release and their work 15:52 tcohen we have only two things listed 15:52 tcohen RESTful aPI and ElasticSearch integration 15:53 tcohen we should make a methodological decision 15:53 tcohen should we start discussing them now? 15:54 tcohen only hear about their statuses and schedule a meeting soon (like next week) to discuss/make decisions on each one? 15:55 khall We could throw the accounts rewrite in there as well 15:55 barton nod. 15:55 mtompset where shall I ask my tiny question? :) 15:56 mtompset about where to put the function? :) 15:57 pastebot "mtompset" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Where should this go?" (10 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/132 15:57 tcohen is anyone working on the restful api willing to talk about it now? 15:58 tcohen we need to know what are the next steps 15:58 khall it still needs signoff 15:59 tcohen khall: it is not clear to me that it isn't just a POC 15:59 barton POC? 15:59 wahanui POC is Proof Of Concept 15:59 khall tcohen: it started off as a POC, but it isn't any longer afaik 16:00 indradg oh! /me was harboring it was POC and stayed away from it! mea culpa 16:00 khall robin and co have been working on making sure it'll be package ready 16:00 tcohen ok, I propose we schedule a meeting for next week so jajm shows, and explains us the implementation details, and people have the chance to discuss it 16:01 tcohen anyone from biblibre can confirm he could be available for that? 16:02 tcohen once we agree that's the way to do it, RESTful endpoints will grow like grass 16:02 tcohen so it is important we have feedback soon 16:02 ashimema I'll try to show up for that.. I really need to find some time to have a play with it.. 16:03 tcohen i'd like to have someone involved on that work here 16:03 indradg tcohen +1 16:03 ashimema I think to go with it, it's important to have it and how to code on it, well documented.. 16:03 ashimema I didn't feel we'de reached that point last I looked.. 16:04 ashimema big for instance.. the whole idea of swagger is that it's test/documentation driven development.. 16:04 tcohen moving into using a web framework like mojo has several implications for the project, so it is not as simple as "this patchset works" 16:04 ashimema i.e, you write the documentation and a json schema file first.. 16:04 barton I wonder if we could come up with a way to announce progress on large projects... 16:04 ashimema then write code to forfil it.. i don't think that message had really been gotten accross yet. 16:06 hkh bye 16:06 khall ashimema: I'm sure anything you can add to the bug would be most welcome 16:06 khall or wherever you think is most suitable 16:06 ashimema I've generally been adding to the wiki page so far.. 16:06 ashimema really need to find the time to sit down a get to konw the bug ;) 16:06 tcohen ok 16:07 ashimema but yes.. I'll add to it 16:07 barton *be* the bug, ashimema :-) 16:07 ashimema and attend a meet if we have one ;) 16:07 tcohen #actions Tomas will ask Julian for possible dates for a meeting to discuss/explain his implementation of a RESTful API 16:08 tcohen is anyone aware of the ES implementation progress? 16:09 tcohen i think on part 2 we'll have more feedback on this 16:10 tcohen i need to end the meeting to attend another one with the boss 16:10 tcohen so moving on 16:10 tcohen #topic Specific bugs that need feedback 16:11 tcohen #info Bug 6874 is candidate for early inclusion in the 3.22 cycle 16:11 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Passed QA , Attach a file to a MARC record (Was: File upload in MARC) 16:11 tcohen i'll try to provide feedback on some shortcomings 16:12 tcohen *i think the implementation has 16:12 mtompset And marcel has created an umbrella bug report for following up on it. 16:12 tcohen exactly 16:12 mtompset Oh, and it is dependent on Bug 5010. :) 16:12 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5010 normal, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Passed QA , Fix OPACBaseURL to include protocol 16:12 tcohen #info Marcel has conveniently created an umbrella bug for fixing all remaining stuff 16:12 reiveune bye 16:13 tcohen i should have put 5010 on that list, but it will be impossible now (no time left for me) 16:13 mtompset I have yet to actually do any coding for the QA feedback on it thus far. 16:14 tcohen i'm not sure how it got so complicated 16:14 tcohen as far as i can see there are several use cases that need to be taken into account 16:14 tcohen and I think we should decouple the transport protocol from the URL 16:14 mtompset I was thinking of a rewrite, since I don't like the UI myself, but I didn't want to slow down its inclusion. 16:15 tcohen i promise to discuss it explicitly soon 16:15 tcohen something like 16:15 tcohen OPACProtocolConfig = http|https|httpbehindhttpsproxy|etc 16:16 tcohen anyway 16:16 tcohen anyone with something else to add? 16:16 ashimema 5010.. I tihnk push it soonre rather than later and lets fix it during the cycle if there are any further issues.. 16:16 tcohen ashimema: I agree 16:16 ashimema it's well tested.. just touches lots of area we probabl won't spot otherwise. 16:16 mtompset Actually, tcohen. I was thinking of adding a SPLIT type to system preferences. 16:17 tcohen i think we should think explicitly on each use case 16:17 tcohen and make the sysprefs help the user figure which use case he/she's in 16:17 tcohen but I agree with ashimema, push soon, fix soon 16:18 mtompset A push now, gives us 2-3 months to fix. :) 16:18 tcohen please ping me if you feel your work is lagging too much 16:18 tcohen you are really too productive for a single person to go through all your work 16:19 tcohen =D 16:19 tcohen ok 16:19 tcohen #topic Set time of next meeting 16:20 tcohen #info we agreed to keep this two-part meeting schema, and a 3-week cycle 16:20 tcohen and to end this meeting 16:20 tcohen a message from my boss: 16:21 mtompset Who is too productive? 16:21 tcohen keep the good work guys http://snag.gy/OEZ3d.jpg 16:21 tcohen #endmeeting 16:21 huginn Meeting ended Wed Jun 3 16:21:19 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 16:21 huginn Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2015/development_irc_meeting_3_june_2015___part_1.2015-06-03-15.10.html 16:21 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2015/development_irc_meeting_3_june_2015___part_1.2015-06-03-15.10.txt 16:21 huginn Log: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2015/development_irc_meeting_3_june_2015___part_1.2015-06-03-15.10.log.html 16:21 mtompset CUTE! 16:21 tcohen he stole he's father's uke 16:22 tcohen later! 16:22 mtompset Chicks dig guitar players. :) 16:22 mtompset Bye, tcohen. 16:22 khall ahh! 16:47 indradg I've a question: is it acceptable to add an agenda item in a planned upcoming meeting's wiki page? 16:47 indradg or should it be left as a comment on the talk page? 16:49 mtompset Adding upfront is easier, because like RFC's, no one reads the Talk page. ;) 17:05 gaetan_B bye 17:10 tcohen indradg: just write me 17:10 tcohen we have a trello board which has several things pending 17:34 indradg tcohen mail setnt 17:35 indradg s/setnt/sent 17:43 magnuse does this look reasonable? 130k records in marcxml = 563MB 17:45 tcohen i have a file 1.5M -> 1GB 17:45 tcohen but it of course depends on the size of the records :-P 17:46 Dyrcona I find MARCXML is often close to 10x the size of binary marc. 17:47 magnuse these records are pretty meaty, i think 17:48 magnuse they figured out a way to put some weird mini records inside the regular records... 17:48 magnuse swedes... 17:50 Dyrcona I take that back: 3-4x the size of binary marc. 17:51 Dyrcona I get about 1.3GB for binary MARC of 950,000 or so records with holdings information in 85x tags. 17:53 drojf magnuse: MARCtryoshka records? 17:53 Dyrcona drojf++ 17:53 magnuse drojf: lol yes 17:53 magnuse more marc? 17:53 wahanui http://02varvara.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/01-how-about-no-bear.jpg?w=800 17:53 magnuse marc? 17:53 wahanui marc is, like, the standard that isn't 17:57 TGoat @later tell ashimema - will you please tell me ..in Koha, I understand that cash drawers will work in conjunction with the receipt printer. Is the equipment brand(s)/product(s) specific for the receipt printer and cash drawer? Can you setup with any general equipment brand(s)/product(s) for this so long as it has the available ports to allow daisy chaining the equipment? You can reach me at: todd.goatley@bywatersolutions.com 17:57 huginn TGoat: The operation succeeded. 18:02 * magnuse wanders off again 18:20 talljoy_afk history question. in what version was MARC incorporated into Koha? 18:22 talljoy_afk and retained? (not broken apart) 18:22 pianohacker talljoy_afk: by not broken apart, you mean stored as binary/MARCXML as opposed to the single-row-per-subfield thing in 2.2? 18:23 talljoy_afk yes 18:23 * talljoy has narrowed it down to post 2.2 18:23 talljoy but i would think 3.0 since it would be a big change. 18:24 pianohacker looks like 3.0, yeah 18:29 tcohen 3.0 was zebra 18:29 tcohen MARC support was something big Paul introduced I recall 18:29 tcohen long before 3.0 18:30 talljoy 2.something then 18:33 tcohen talljoy: http://snag.gy/IaAQn.jpg 18:33 tcohen paul_p++ 18:34 talljoy paul_p++ 18:34 pianohacker so marc was 1.4 and the marc/marcxml blob style was 3.0? 18:34 pianohacker paul_p++ 18:46 misilot is it possible to import MARC files that are ISO-8859-1 formatted? 18:47 tcohen misilot: you can do it using Z39.50 18:48 misilot not through the marc import tool though?? 18:48 tcohen need to choose the correct encoding 18:48 tcohen ah 18:49 tcohen yes, you can choose ISO-8859-1 18:49 tcohen never tried though 18:49 misilot ah didn't see it there 18:49 misilot thanks tcohen 18:49 misilot guess I could always try and get the vendor to modify the format they send us ... 18:50 tcohen http://snag.gy/ILFK2.jpg 18:50 misilot thanks tcohen 19:11 mtompset tcohen: Bug 8007 19:11 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8007 new feature, P5 - low, ---, matthias.meusburger, Pushed to Master , Discharge management 19:11 mtompset and bug 10900 19:11 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10900 normal, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Pushed to Master , Incorrect calling conventions accessing C4::Context 19:12 tcohen mtompset: already read my inbox 19:12 mtompset Ah, it made it there fast. 19:12 tcohen (i get emails for most of what happens on bugzilla) 19:12 mtompset Where should I submit the patch? 19:12 mtompset new report, right? 19:13 tcohen yes 19:13 tcohen mtompset: BTW, could you take a look at my followup fr bug 14256? 19:13 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14256 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Tests for TestBuilder fail randomly 19:13 tcohen i saw you put your signature on the first patch 19:13 tcohen i'm not happy with the "most of the time" part of the first patch 19:14 mtompset tcohen: Sadly, I fear to touch that report now. :) 19:14 tcohen so intend to have a proper deterministic solution 19:14 mtompset But I may get around to it. No promises. 19:59 pianohacker @later tell tcohen to revive an old discussion about JS translation; since we already have the format stuff working, would you object to an experimental patch that can translate strings in JS files? I do think it would make a noticeable difference in ease of development for larger JS stuff 19:59 huginn pianohacker: The operation succeeded. 20:04 mtompset @later tell tcohen I hate trying to debug nested hash references. Something is wrong with the patch. 20:04 huginn mtompset: The operation succeeded. 20:27 mtompset Have a great day, #koha 20:40 jmsasse wnickc: Hello, are you going to Erie? 20:41 wnickc jmsasse: yes, need ot register 20:41 jmsasse good, me too. 20:43 jmsasse wnickc: When is the next nakug meeting? I didn't get an invite to the last one. 20:43 wnickc hmm..notice went oout on the lists 20:43 wnickc i think next thursday 20:44 wnickc jmsasse: http://koha-na.org/index.php/Monthly_online_meetings 20:46 jmsasse wnickc: thanks 20:47 jmsasse Has anyone noticed an issue with item types being incorrect in overdue notices? 21:20 cait hi #koha 21:23 wnickc hi cait 21:23 cait hi wnickc :) 21:23 cait i got woried for a moment that everyone was gone! 21:24 wnickc just quiet :) 21:34 wizzyrea hi 21:35 pianohacker hi liz 21:35 wizzyrea oh hi! grats on the new job! 21:35 pianohacker thanks :) 21:35 wizzyrea new/old job :) 21:35 pianohacker heavy mix of both. Things change more than I expected when you go from 4 to 40 hours a week 21:35 * cait waves 21:35 pianohacker hi cait :) 21:36 pianohacker what are you up to these days, liz? 21:36 wizzyrea breaking stuff, fixing stuff, trying to make librarians happy :) 21:36 wizzyrea the usual 21:36 wizzyrea ^.^ 21:37 pianohacker cool 21:41 tcohen @wunder cordoba, argentina 21:41 huginn tcohen: The current temperature in Bo Altos de San Martin - NW, Cordoba city, Cordoba City, Argentina is 20.2°C (6:40 PM ART on June 03, 2015). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 38%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Pressure: 29.97 in 1015 hPa (Rising). 21:42 cait tcohen: haven't read the logs yet :( 21:43 tcohen pianohacker: please show the translation manager your working idea. bgkriegel@gmail.com 21:43 tcohen i'm interested on it too, of course 21:43 pianohacker tcohen: Will do, thanks. Will CC you 21:44 wizzyrea pianohacker: what about you, what does bywater have you doing? 21:44 pianohacker wizzyrea: mix of a lot of things. SAML, Rancor, some smaller devs 21:44 wizzyrea nice :) 21:47 tcohen hi cait 21:51 indradg @wunder 21:51 huginn indradg: (wunder <US zip code | US/Canada city, state | Foreign city, country>) -- Returns the approximate weather conditions for a given city. 21:51 indradg @wunder kolkata 21:51 huginn indradg: The current temperature in Kolkata, India is 29.0°C (3:20 AM IST on June 04, 2015). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 84%. Dew Point: 26.0°C. Pressure: 29.62 in 1003 hPa (Falling). 22:01 cait can i get 5 minutes more? heh 22:01 cait not finished reading :) 22:03 cait done 22:05 cait tcohen: meeting? 22:05 wahanui i heard meeting was in two days, i thought was tomorrow. plenty of time then 22:08 tcohen hi 22:09 eythian hi 22:09 wahanui que tal, eythian 22:10 tcohen #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 3 June 2015 - part 2 22:10 huginn Meeting started Wed Jun 3 22:10:10 2015 UTC. The chair is tcohen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 22:10 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 22:10 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_3_june_2015___part_2' 22:10 tcohen #topic Introductions 22:10 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 22:10 tcohen please introduce yourselves using #info 22:10 wizzyrea #info Liz Rea, Catalyst 22:10 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi 22:11 eythian #info Robin Sheat, Catalyst IT, Wellington 22:11 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ 22:11 pianohacker #info Jesse Weaver, ByWater Solutions 22:11 indradg #info Indranil Das Gupta, India 22:12 tcohen last time part 2 was only eythian and dcook (half of him) so, pretty good 22:12 rangi #info Chris Cormack, Catalyst 22:12 tcohen ok 22:12 tcohen #topic RM 3.22 comments 22:13 tcohen I'll repeat myself from part 1 22:13 tcohen i've been really happy with the 3.20 release 22:14 tcohen we are upgrading to 3.20 really soon 22:14 wizzyrea \o/ 22:14 tcohen i'd like to congratulate all of you for such a nice release 22:15 tcohen several month ago cool projects were started from several community members 22:15 eythian I think we have someone who'll be going prod on 3.20, too. 22:15 rangi yup, i upgraded them last night 22:15 tcohen and the posibility of them making it for the next release 22:15 tcohen could make it a major milestone for the project 22:16 tcohen for that to happen 22:16 tcohen we need to boost involvement from the dev team members in other people's projects 22:17 tcohen a full REST api, the posibility of using a web framework, Elastic Search, easier UI maintenance/coding/testing introducing angularjs, etc 22:17 tcohen lots of cool stuff that could even boost participation from younger people 22:18 tcohen anyway, the future looks exciting and efforts need to be done 22:18 tcohen all those words I wrote, need to be discussed, decisions made, and of course coded and tested 22:18 eythian that would be a huge release if all those were in there. 22:19 tcohen probably utopical, but something in that direction is quite possible 22:19 tcohen i might need to leave in a couple minutes oops 22:19 tcohen to the point 22:20 tcohen i'll try to keep a 3-week cycle for dev meetings 22:20 tcohen and as said on part 1 22:20 tcohen will set a trello board for the big stuff everyone is working on 22:20 eythian grump proprietary tools grump 22:20 tcohen jonathan proposed hosting our own libreboard 22:21 rangi yeah we could use libreboard or taiga 22:21 tcohen we were all open to that 22:21 rangi taiga is easy 22:21 tcohen if someone volunteers 22:21 tcohen the important thing is all of us having the whole picture of what's going on 22:21 rangi i reckon we could put taiga in our cloud eh eythian, just need to check, but i think it should be fine 22:21 eythian sure 22:21 pianohacker I'm going to wait to start volunteering bsw 22:21 pianohacker w 22:22 eythian I already add things to it without really asking :) 22:22 cait bsw? 22:22 pianohacker *bws's servers until I've been here a bit longer 22:22 cait oh 22:22 cait got it 22:22 pianohacker typing is hard 22:22 wizzyrea lol 22:22 eythian that's OK, our cloud people want it to be stress tested a bit :) 22:22 pianohacker m'excellent 22:22 eythian So I we look into it 22:22 eythian err 22:23 eythian you know what I meant. Typing is hard. 22:23 tcohen before I let cait chair, just wanted to mention that for the next topic, I promised to ask Julian Maurice to attend to a meeting soon, dedicated to the RESTful aPI, so we can discuss the current aproach and even make decisions about it 22:23 pianohacker see? 22:23 cait me chair? 22:23 tcohen #chair cait 22:23 huginn Current chairs: cait tcohen 22:23 tcohen cool 22:23 tcohen sorry, baby urgency 22:24 tcohen bbl 22:24 cait slightly unprepared 22:24 cait please help me a bit :) 22:24 cait so i tihnk that was the RM comments 22:24 pianohacker that does qualify. What's next on the agenda? 22:24 wizzyrea can't compete with baby urgency. 22:24 cait as he is gone, I suggest we move on 22:24 cait #topic Planning the 3.22 release 22:24 eythian #action robin to look into hosting taiga 22:24 cait thx eythian 22:24 eythian (otherwise I'll forget) 22:25 cait does it record your actions or only mine? 22:25 eythian I have no idea 22:25 cait #action robin to look into hosting taiga 22:25 cait now it will be there no matter what 22:25 cait ok, i think we have heard about the trello/taiga idea 22:25 cait another idea i spotted in the logs is Blocker monday? 22:25 pianohacker I was curious about that as well 22:25 cait hassomeone here attended the first meeting as well? 22:26 pianohacker http://meetings.koha-community.org/2015/development_irc_meeting_3_june_2015___part_1.2015-06-03-15.10.log.txt starting at 15:32:57 22:26 cait as I understood it the idea is to find some times for monday meetings to talk specifically about big developments blocking other developments and general blockers 22:26 cait kyle has started something like a survey on the mailing list 22:27 cait koha-devel - for anyone interested 22:27 cait there are a few big items listed on the agenda 22:27 cait #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Development_IRC_meeting_3_June_2015 22:28 cait does someone want to add something to the list? 22:28 cait I think a quick update on the state of Elastic would be cool :) 22:28 pianohacker I don't think we have any of the big players for the restful api here 22:29 eythian cait: I've been delayed by other things, but Kathryn has now been fighting to get them out of my way, so I'm back on it pretty much only for a little while. 22:29 eythian Also, I have basic staff client searching working. 22:29 wizzyrea \o/ 22:29 pianohacker excellent 22:29 wizzyrea kathryn++ 22:29 * eythian needs to update his demo server. 22:29 cait kathryn++ :) 22:30 cait eythian: tell me when i can test again ;) 22:30 eythian suuuuuure ;) 22:30 eythian I'll probably do that today 22:30 wizzyrea hehe 22:30 cait #info ElasticSearch: basic staff client search works 22:30 cait #action eythian to update the elastic search demo server 22:31 cait so you don't forget :) 22:31 eythian heh 22:31 cait anyone about file upload? 22:31 cait note: it depends on the changes to opacbaseurl including the protocol i think 22:31 wizzyrea is there a bug # for that? 22:31 pianohacker woah, what changes to opacbaseurl? 22:31 * pianohacker <-- still out of the loop 22:32 * wizzyrea too 22:34 cait there is a mix now 22:34 cait somefeatures expect protocol to be part of the pref others not 22:34 cait i think basically trying to fix that up - but i haven't worked on it 22:35 cait bug 6847 22:35 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6847 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kohapatch, ASSIGNED , Bulk userid, password generation and email 22:35 pianohacker joy, okay. 22:35 cait oh not that one 22:35 cait bug 6874 22:35 wahanui rumour has it bug 6874 is epic 22:35 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Passed QA , Attach a file to a MARC record (Was: File upload in MARC) 22:35 cait bug 5010 22:35 wahanui it has been said that bug 5010 is scary 22:35 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5010 normal, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Passed QA , Fix OPACBaseURL to include protocol 22:36 pianohacker good gracious 22:36 cait comments? additions? 22:37 pianohacker only comment is that it should include the protocol 22:38 pianohacker we have some systems on https for their opac and some not, and while they should all arguably be https, we need to capture that 22:38 cait some need to be https, like when using shibboleth or cas i guess 22:38 indradg pianohacker +1 22:38 cait and in general... you shoudl be using https 22:38 cait ok if there is nothing else, we are moving on 22:38 cait #topic Action from last meeting 22:39 cait hm looks like it's all been done 22:39 wizzyrea I have a comment >.< 22:39 wizzyrea on the opacbaseurl 22:39 wizzyrea I feel squidgy about it being in the sysprefs at all. 22:39 wizzyrea it should be in koha_conf 22:40 rangi i agree, moving it to the config file makes a lot more sense 22:40 pianohacker agreed 22:40 wizzyrea intranetbaseurl tool. 22:40 wizzyrea too* 22:40 rangi yup 22:41 wizzyrea my feeling is that we're still using it because "it's how we've always done it" 22:41 cait #idea move opacbaseurl and intranetbaseurl to koha_conf 22:41 cait i wonder if there are any implications for multi branch setups 22:41 wizzyrea baseurl has never been branch specific 22:41 cait but can't really think of something 22:41 wizzyrea there's only one pref :P 22:41 pianohacker how would we go about migrating that, though? Helper that checks the config then the syspref, and move it to the config for new installs? 22:41 cait are we ok about including the protocol? 22:42 pianohacker I'm in favor 22:42 eythian pianohacker: probably a fallback, yeah 22:42 cait maybe the code could be pushed then and in a second step move it 22:42 cait ihope the patches add consistency about the expected fomat 22:42 pianohacker cait: does the plan for that bug involve a migration that will prepend the protocol to the syspref if it's missing? 22:43 cait i haven'tchecked the code myself, i don't know 22:44 pianohacker looks like it, yes 22:44 pianohacker kk, good 22:45 pianohacker cait: could I talk for a bit about Rancor after this? 22:45 cait sure :) 22:45 cait changed the topic too early i guess 22:46 cait #topic Planning the 3.22 release cont 22:46 cait go ahead 22:47 pianohacker (quick refresher: Rancor is the code name for the professional cataloging interface for Koha that I've been working on for the past two years.) 22:47 pianohacker In a discussion with cait, she mentioned the possibility of bringing in Rancor as an experimental feature and hammering out the bugs as time goes on 22:48 pianohacker I was in favor of this, as my every-single-feature 4-page-long test plan that I posted on bug 11559 garnered, for some reason, little enthusiasm 22:48 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11559 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jweaver, Needs Signoff , Professional cataloger's interface 22:48 eythian heh 22:49 pianohacker I wanted to ask you all a) what you thought of this b) how we should mark Rancor as experimental within the UI and c) what I should provide to make this a possibility 22:49 cait hm not quite what i said :P 22:49 pianohacker glad I asked then :) 22:49 wizzyrea a. I like it, for something that big iterative is probably better. 22:49 eythian I think we should agree that cait said it. 22:49 pianohacker cait: in your words without my optimistic filter 22:50 cait itihnk we should still get it through the normal qa process, but it's big 22:50 cait so there will still things being missed probably 22:50 wizzyrea well, we should decide what it needs at an absolute minimum 22:50 wizzyrea UI wise, we should probably require that it be enabled somehow 22:50 wizzyrea syspref, probably 22:51 wizzyrea so that it absolutely does not get in the way of people who don't and won't ever want to use it. 22:51 cait what i said was that it was nice it's independent - so we don't need to worry too much if we can make sure it doesn't break existing features and doesn't create invalid data or something evil 22:51 cait there will be workarounds with the existing editor 22:51 pianohacker cait: okay, cool. That's generally what I was thinking 22:51 pianohacker +1 to liz's idea 22:51 wizzyrea but possibly also show a message on the cataloguing screen (or make an intranet news item?) that says "hey, there's a new cataloguing system help us out by testing it" 22:52 wizzyrea "here's how you do that, file your bugs here, thanks for your participation blah blah" 22:52 cait hm i'd maybe put in a staff news or soemthing in the release notes 22:52 cait having it constantly shw on cataloguing might get annoying :) 22:52 cait not sure there is a good place for iton those screen 22:52 cait s 22:53 wizzyrea I was thinking maybe only for superlibrarians 22:53 pianohacker I'm more in favor of the intranet news item as well 22:53 wizzyrea as they're the only ones with permissions to change sysprefs 22:53 wizzyrea but I'm not fussed either way ;) 22:54 pianohacker cait: would a test plan for the little bits and pieces of code that are touched outside Rancor itself, and the UI/syspref to enable/disable it be a good next step? 22:55 cait sorry, I am a bit slow tonight 22:55 cait let me reread that sentence 22:55 wizzyrea I had a thought, maybe we should have a specific area in the sysprefs for "experimental features" 22:55 cait sounds good to me 22:56 cait if it really gets long, you might want to move the test plan outside bugzilla maybe 22:56 cait not sure where to put it, maybe the wiki 22:56 cait i find long text in bugzilla a bit hard to read at times 22:56 pianohacker cait: the test plan for the outside-rancor code in those patches will be waaaaay shorter than the test plan for rancor itself :) 22:56 cait that feeds my hope of it not breaking something :) 22:57 cait ok, anything else before we close? 22:57 cait #action pianohacker to add a test plan addendum for outside-rancor code being touched by the patches (bug 11559) 22:57 pianohacker cait: mind putting an action for the test plan and syspref to enable/disable? 22:57 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11559 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jweaver, Needs Signoff , Professional cataloger's interface 22:57 pianohacker heh, why thank you ;) 22:57 cait #action pianohacker to add a pref to turn off/on the new editor 22:58 cait ok? :) 22:58 pianohacker yup ypu 22:58 eythian whatever the continuation of an action is: I have a server for taiga built 22:58 cait can someone check if the last meeting already agreed on a date/time? 22:58 cait eythian++ :) 22:58 pianohacker cait: not in the posted log 22:58 wizzyrea #action pianohacker to add news item to notify koha users of experimental cataloguing interface 22:58 pianohacker thanks liz 22:58 cait hm in 3 weeks that would be 22:59 cait July 25th? 22:59 cait 15 and 22 utc again? 22:59 cait #topic Set date and time for next meeting 22:59 pianohacker oh nvm, I'm blind. But +1 to that date and time 22:59 cait any veto? 22:59 cait i will add it as a suggestion then and leave final decision to tcohen 23:00 cait i think they also talked about a meeting for the rest api next week 23:00 cait so plans might change 23:00 cait #info suggestion for the next meeting date: july 25th, 15 + 22 utc 23:00 cait #endmeeting 23:00 huginn Meeting ended Wed Jun 3 23:00:47 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 23:00 huginn Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2015/development_irc_meeting_3_june_2015___part_2.2015-06-03-22.10.html 23:00 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2015/development_irc_meeting_3_june_2015___part_2.2015-06-03-22.10.txt 23:00 huginn Log: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2015/development_irc_meeting_3_june_2015___part_2.2015-06-03-22.10.log.html 23:00 cait thx all for attending 23:01 wizzyrea thx cait 23:01 indradg thanks cait 23:01 pianohacker thanks cait 23:02 pianohacker wizzyrea: just to make sure I understand, would this experimental features sysprefs area have previously included things like granular permissions? 23:02 wizzyrea I don't think so? I'm not sure it's ever existed... 23:03 pianohacker right right, but if it had back when you could enable/disable granular permissions with a syspref 23:03 wizzyrea I don't know 23:03 wizzyrea :) 23:04 pianohacker okay, fair nuff 23:05 pianohacker good night all 23:08 wizzyrea have a good evening :) 23:09 talljoy wizzyrea had a library today ask why doesn't Koha store ALL the bits in a marc tag in individual fields in the database. (ala 2.2) 23:10 eythian just that idea gives me nightmares 23:10 wizzyrea heh 23:10 talljoy right? 23:10 talljoy pianohacker started giggling maniacally. ask him! 23:10 talljoy it was pretty funny. 23:10 * cait tries to imagine a clean database model for this and fails 23:10 talljoy yah. 23:11 eythian it wouldn't really be possible in any sane way, the structures are too different. 23:11 talljoy my mind goes to all the libraries who have unique needs. No, put the publisher in the author field because we <insert crazy scheme> 23:11 talljoy so every library would have their 'own table structure' and that makes me twitch. 23:11 wizzyrea sounds like a migration from something like dbtext 23:12 talljoy yah. 23:12 wizzyrea eythian would know better. 23:12 eythian yeah, a lot of things we see try to do something like that, and it's always half arsed. 23:12 talljoy i've done some text to marc migrations. 23:12 talljoy and it is not pretty to recreate marc from flat files. 23:13 talljoy but it does bring up the point about accessibility to data. anyone working on 'linked data' and Koha? 23:13 talljoy working beyond marc? 23:13 eythian isn't that magnuse's ballywick? 23:13 talljoy then i need to talk to him. 23:14 talljoy i'll ping him in the morning.