IRC log for #koha, 2014-04-09

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:03 * dcook is rather full from breakfast, so naturally...pastry time!
00:03 dcook This 20-something metabolism is rad.
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01:18 kathryn hi mtompsett , I liked your email :)
01:20 dcook ^
01:38 kathryn hi dcook :)
01:38 dcook heya kathryn :)
02:54 wajasu mtompset: i'm going to put the preliminary patch for zebra facets query on bug 11232 for whoever to play with and comment on.  its got commenting warns and lacks some detection. i only tested against  marc21 dom icu environment.
02:54 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11232 new feature, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Retrieve facets from Zebra
02:55 mtompset Thank you, kathryn dcook
02:55 wajasu it'll take me few minutes to type some test instructions
02:55 mtompset okay, wajasu.
02:55 wajasu you'll want to use a dev install
02:56 mtompset No promises on testing... I'm rather exhausted.
02:56 mtompset dev install from a tarball?
02:56 mtompset or a git install?
02:57 wajasu i do git clone, with   perl with dev, dom, icu
02:57 wajasu then make, make install
02:57 * dcook is trying a "make test" at the moment and failing miserably
03:02 pastebot "dcook" at pasted "Make test failing :(" (20 lines) at
03:03 dcook Any ideas on what my Net::Z3950::ZOOM doesn't seem too happy?
03:04 wajasu i think i recall someone talking about a version upgrade
03:05 eythian yeah, I'd make sure that library version numbers match, and that the package providing the .so is up to date, and so on.
03:05 wajasu or was it Marc::Record or such
03:05 dcook Net::Z3950::ZOOM looks up to date :/
03:05 dcook I can see ZOOM_query_sortby2 poking out in the .so
03:06 dcook The .so looks like it comes with Net::Z3950::ZOOM as well. At least it's nestled under it in the dir structure
03:07 dcook I figure there must be a mismatch somewhere but darned if I know where..
03:07 dcook wajasu: The Marc::Record thing was for the "big records"
03:07 eythian you're making assumptions, it's best not to do that.
03:07 dcook Agreed, although I'm not entirely sure how to test that assumption
03:08 eythian dpkg -S?
03:08 dcook Non-Debian system :(
03:08 eythian also try reinstalling it.
03:08 eythian ah
03:08 * dcook reaches out longingly for his Debian system at home
03:08 eythian then I know not much about it.
03:09 dcook I'll try those ideas in an y case, eythian :)
03:09 dcook Thanks
03:10 dcook Reinstall and check out the source coming in..
03:13 dcook eythian: Good call on reinstalling
03:13 dcook It's the same module, but maybe the build went wrong the first time..
03:14 eythian could be, yeah. If it's a compiled from cpan thing, then it's possible a library had changed somewhere.
03:14 eythian They should be binary compatible, but maybe aren't always.
03:15 dcook No idea :/. But yay for working!
03:16 * dcook says very sophisticatedly
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04:10 wajasu so there. i did something. bug 11232.  maybe folks can see if thats a doable stratgey that be rolled out.
04:10 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11232 new feature, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, ASSIGNED , Retrieve facets from Zebra
04:11 wajasu i changed it to assigned, maybe it should be needs signoff, but it will need followups.
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04:17 mtompset boot up the unimarc VM, get it up to date. :)
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04:47 mtompset how do I compare a 3.12.x version of a file against a 3.14.x version of a file? Is there a nice git command for that?
04:49 mtompset got it. :)
04:57 eythian now share for the channel
04:57 eythian (it's something I do so rarely that I have to look it up each time.)
04:58 wizzyrea isnt it like git diff commitid commitid or something
04:59 eythian Well, I think it's commitid:path/to/file or something
04:59 mtompset Let's say I'm on 3.14.x ... git diff origin/3.12.x -- filename
04:59 wizzyrea oh yea probably
04:59 wizzyrea there you go
05:00 mtompset dcook: It's all your fault. :P
05:00 dcook Hmm?
05:00 mtompset bug 10893
05:00 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10893 normal, P5 - low, ---, mathsabypro, Patch doesn't apply , Location facet not working in UNIMARC
05:00 dcook Oh, very possibly.
05:00 mtompset It's all your fault. Bug 10078
05:00 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10078 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Pushed to Master , show location facet for all
05:01 mtompset I'm rebasing it accordingly.
05:01 dcook You're a peculiar one, mtompset.
05:01 dcook I think there are probably some issues with that patch though yeah
05:01 mtompset Actually... the patch just changes 995$c to 995$e.
05:01 mtompset which is correct, as far as I can tell, for Locations.
05:02 dcook Actually, I might be thinking of something else..
05:02 dcook I was thinking of something locally :p
05:03 dcook mtompset: I just copied what was already there
05:03 mtompset Yes, but by moving the code, you triggered the patch failure. :P
05:03 dcook ...
05:03 dcook You're a peculiar one, mtompset.
05:04 dcook Good one on these instructions though:[…]a_on_ubuntu_-_git
05:04 mtompset I try to keep the bar low for new developers.
05:04 dcook Well, I mostly followed them...for a non-Debian/Ubuntu system
05:04 dcook Excuse me?
05:05 mtompset sometimes the instructions on the wiki are written by programmers who forget to be explicit about intermediate steps.
05:06 mtompset Glad they were helpful in getting a non-debian-based system functional.
05:06 dcook They certainly seem comprehensive :). I think a few parts might be questionable, but it's nice having everything laid out.
05:07 mtompset which parts? I'm open to revising accordingly.
05:07 mtompset Remember, I am trying to keep it at a git for dummies type level.
05:08 dcook "Do not install extra packages during Ubuntu installation. Apache2 and MySQL will be installed in the instructions later."
05:08 dcook You might want to mention explicitly later in the instructions when they're added
05:09 mtompset Well, remember, if you are a developer, you might do strange things like not use a local MySQL.
05:09 dcook Not if you're a dummy though, right? :p
05:09 mtompset True.
05:10 mtompset But I can't write instructions for dummies that are totally insulting to non-dummies.
05:10 mtompset It's a comment to keep installation minimal.
05:10 dcook Then maybe just tweak that line?
05:10 mtompset because less is more in a server context.
05:10 dcook Anyway, it was just a suggestion
05:10 mtompset I think it is a fair one.
05:11 dcook As for the being totally insulting to non-dummies, that ones always a good one to keep in mind as well
05:11 dcook Well, actually, not being insulting in general is usually pretty good
05:12 dcook To that effect, I hope I wasn't insulting with my comment about being peculiar earlier. I should re-phrase that. I find your humour just to be different than what I'm used to.
05:17 mtompset No, I didn't take it as insulting. And I was being over the top in my blame as a type of humor. I'm glad you got it.
05:18 mtompset Well, non-dummies tend to get bored by such explicit instructions. "Of course I know that!"
05:19 dcook True true
05:21 mtompset I tweaked it, as per your suggestion.
05:21 dcook Cool :). I think that makes sense.
05:23 dcook Actually, now that I think about it, it might be worth adding a link to the "gitify" repo as well.
05:23 dcook That's even easier
05:24 dcook As an alternative that is
05:34 mtompset There is no gitify wiki page.
05:34 wizzyrea
05:34 mtompset I would think there should be, and the git page could put a reference to it.
05:35 paxed which is the one i should edit, C4/ or Koha/
05:35 wizzyrea the docs that come with gitify should be decent
05:36 mtompset They look pretty good. I haven't had a chance to try them to suggest improvements.
05:36 dcook mtompset: Perhaps something like "Alternatively, you can use koha-gitify (github.comm/mkfifo) with a package install instance."
05:37 wizzyrea
05:37 wizzyrea is the whole path
05:40 wizzyrea it's github, you can just fork it, make a patch, and issue a pull request
05:40 wizzyrea )
05:40 wizzyrea ;)
05:40 wizzyrea ezpz
05:41 mtompset wizzyrea: One comment. There's a handy dandy box missing on the "echo deb..."
05:41 wizzyrea see above
05:41 wizzyrea it's github, you can just fork it, make a patch, and issue a pull request :)
05:43 mtompset That would require me doing something instead of going to bed. :P
05:43 mtompset I have a bad cold and it is 1:43AM here. :)
05:43 wizzyrea haha well you should go to bed. that's alright I'll take credit for your idea
05:44 mtompset I have no problem with that. If the community wins, I win. :)
05:44 mtompset Have a great day (24 hour period), #koha wizzyrea dcook paxed
05:45 paxed ... i was kinda hoping to get an answer ...
05:48 wizzyrea what are you working on?
05:48 paxed looking at bug 8735
05:49 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8735 minor, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Failed QA , Expire holds waiting only on days the library is open
05:49 wizzyrea koha::calendar I'd reckon
05:49 wizzyrea because of the 2nd attachment "switch from c4::calendar to koha::calendar"
05:50 paxed which is the one i _should_ use preferably, assuming i were to write my own stuff?
05:50 wizzyrea and the problem there is that he hasn't provided unit tests, afaict.
05:50 wizzyrea yep
05:51 paxed C4/Calendar or Koha/Calendar?
05:51 wizzyrea koha::calendar
05:51 paxed so, C4/Calendar is being deprecated?
05:51 wizzyrea as far as I know yes
05:51 wizzyrea everything you add in Koha/ has to have unit tests, just so you know.
05:52 wizzyrea well everything in C4 and Koha now, I guess
05:52 paxed so, having the calendar module twice is just due to hysterical raisins?
05:53 wizzyrea pretty sure that everything is eventually going to be moved to Koha
05:53 paxed ok.
05:53 wizzyrea maybe someone else knows differently
06:25 * magnuse waves
06:28 * magnuse reckons the long term goal is to move everything from C4:: to Koha::, with the stricter rules that apply to Koha::
06:31 wizzyrea yeah that was my impression
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06:45 reiveune hello
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06:57 alex_a bonjour
06:58 magnuse bonjour france
07:05 * magnuse is terrible at names and perpetually confused by the debian version names
07:08 dcook Toy Story!
07:09 dcook I think..
07:10 magnuse yeah, but i havn't even seen the movie...
07:10 magnuse i heard there is a toy in the movie called "buggy", but the debian folks have no plans to use that name... :-)
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07:19 magnuse hiya kivilahtio
07:19 magnuse ...and kivilahtio_
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07:35 * cait waves
07:36 sophie_m hello
07:36 wahanui hey, sophie_m
07:42 * magnuse waves to cait and sophie_m
07:42 sophie_m hello magnuse
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08:30 kivilahtio_ hiya magnuse
08:35 fridolin joined #koha
08:36 fridolin hie all
08:36 fridolin I've updated my test to master ( and my OPAC is broken. Do you have it also ?
08:37 fridolin I get : Template process failed: file error - cssinclude: not found at /home/koha/src/C4/ line 132.
08:38 fridolin Ooo
08:38 fridolin sorry, my fault : i removed the translated templates
08:44 kivilahtio_ Does anyone know what does reservations.expirationdate do?
08:44 kivilahtio_ when is it populated?
08:44 kivilahtio_ what does it expire?
08:45 kivilahtio_ hi there fridolin!
08:45 fridolin hi kivilahtio_
08:45 kivilahtio_ how was your holiday?
08:45 fridolin super cool
08:45 kivilahtio_ good to hear :)
08:45 fridolin went to spain and belgium
08:45 kivilahtio_ wow
08:46 kivilahtio_ with family?
08:46 fridolin one day we add lunch at 4pm and the other we add diner at 6pm
08:46 kivilahtio_ :)
08:46 kivilahtio_ happy to hear you were busy!
08:47 fridolin I've seen your mail, but i do not get the all point
08:47 kivilahtio_ haha
08:47 kivilahtio_ no ownder
08:47 fridolin do you have a moment to explain it to me ?
08:47 kivilahtio_ no wonder
08:47 kivilahtio_ sure
08:59 cait kivilahtio_: i think it's an optional field you can set when placing a hold
08:59 cait something like: I won't need this after...
09:00 cait i am not sure if there is a cronjob to clean out those, might be, i Haven't looked into it yet
09:00 cait kivilahtio_: but you might want to check what I said :)
09:02 kivilahtio_ ok
09:02 kivilahtio_ It is just hard to find the expiredate use cases, since it looks like some of that might be hidden under dbi::x
09:02 kivilahtio_ or whatever that monster was :)
09:03 magnuse dbix::class aka dbic, probably? :-)
09:04 kivilahtio_ it was so easy to just search for database column in Koha :(
09:12 cait kivilahtio_: hm not sure there is dbic for htat yet
09:12 cait what is the difference no in searching?
09:12 cait i mean so far we don't use dbix much (sadly)
09:13 cait maybe i am just confused
09:15 cait kivilahtio_: i found this in kohastructure:  `expirationdate` DATE DEFAULT NULL, -- the date the hold expires (usually the date entered by the patron to say they don't need the hold after a certain date)
09:20 cait kivilahtio_: bug 1532
09:20 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1532 blocker, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, gmcharlt, CLOSED FIXED, Port dev_week holds enhancements to 3.0
09:20 cait kivilahtio_: looks like quite old code, probably worth testing if it works like it should
09:23 sophie_m kivilahtio_: misc/cronjobs/holds/
09:25 cait :)
09:26 kivilahtio_ sophie_m: but I cannot get the expireddate column to tpopulate?
09:27 kivilahtio_ I am migrating our holds, and some holds are already expired, but I would like to have koha print the report
09:27 kivilahtio_ so i need to figure out how koha knows what reservations are expired
09:28 kivilahtio_ but that has nothing to do with expirydate i think
09:28 kivilahtio_ thanks for the help !
09:28 cait kivilahtio_: i think you have to set it in hte interface
09:29 kivilahtio_ cait: yeah it looks like that
09:29 cait kivilahtio_: and for waiting holds it calculates from the waitingdate i think
09:29 sophie_m kivilahtio_: most of the time it is calculated by koha. Column is only populated when you explicitly ask for expiration date on hold
09:29 kivilahtio_ sophie_m: thanks yous!
09:29 * cait agrees with sophie_m
09:30 kivilahtio_ cait: ah yeah, I need to set the waiting date, but I fear our legacy system doesnt have a matching column :)
09:30 cait waitingdate is only for those on the holds shelf
09:30 sophie_m there is also a syspref i think
09:30 cait waiting to be picked up, so should not be so many - maybe just set it to a hardcoded date? giving the patrons a few days to pickup?
09:30 kivilahtio_ yeah holdsexpired
09:30 kivilahtio_ yeah holdsexpired...
09:31 kivilahtio_ ok. Ill figure it out now that I know the role of expireddate
09:35 cait @wunder Upfingen
09:35 huginn cait: Error: No such location could be found.
09:35 cait @wunder reutlingen
09:35 huginn cait: The current temperature in Reutlingen, Germany is 12.9°C (11:35 AM CEST on April 09, 2014). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 25%. Dew Point: 0.0°C. Pressure: 30.30 in 1026 hPa (Steady).
09:36 cait @wunder München
09:36 huginn cait: Error: No such location could be found.
09:36 cait @wunder Munich
09:36 huginn cait: Error: No such location could be found.
09:36 cait hm
09:38 magnuse @wunder boo
09:38 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 5.0°C (11:20 AM CEST on April 09, 2014). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 49%. Dew Point: -5.0°C. Windchill: -1.0°C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
09:55 cait i wonder if I could persuade someone to sign off on a few patches...
09:55 cait like 8375
09:55 cait bug 8375
09:55 wahanui bug 8375 is surposed to fix something, and it's on the right track, but not sufficiant to make utf-8 work.
09:55 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8375 normal, P5 - low, ---, matted-34813, Needs Signoff , Common diacritics not shown correctly when exporting batch label to PDF
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10:08 * khan slaps BobB around a bit with a large fishbot
10:11 cait khan: please don't slap people
10:11 khan Sorry
10:12 cait it's ok
10:12 khan It's my first time here
10:13 khan Can you please let me know the URL of phpmyadmin in KOHA 3.12
10:15 cait hm
10:15 cait phpmyadmin is not part of Koha
10:16 khan cait: you there?
10:16 cait it's a separate program some people use to access the mysql db Koha uses
10:16 cait what are you trying to do?
10:18 khan i just want to access the mysql database
10:20 cait if you have koha locally instaleld
10:20 cait you can also do it from command line or use a graphical tool like mysql workbench
10:20 cait well also if you have installed it somewhere else
10:20 cait phpmyadmin is justone option
10:20 khan i have it locally
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10:28 khan cait: i really need some help
10:28 cait it's hard witout knowing waht you are tying to do
10:28 cait what do you want to access the database for?
10:30 cait Joubu: around?
10:32 khan why is that a crime?
10:33 khan why you are asking that question.
10:33 Joubu cait: more or less :)
10:34 cait ah, i am working on the gst bug
10:34 cait is it possible that the display on the basket is still confusingly wrong?
10:34 khan great
10:34 cait khan: it's not a crime, but i might be able to give better advice by knowing what you are trying to achieve
10:34 khan OK
10:34 khan sorry
10:35 khan for being rude
10:35 Joubu cait: all is possible with prices calculation...
10:35 cait Joubu: very true
10:35 wahanui I know. That's why I said it.
10:35 cait that makes it so confusing
10:35 cait posting a screenshot, one sec
10:37 cait Joubu: i know i am supposed to check the invoice page - and i wlil do that of course
10:38 Joubu cait: why do you want GST=0.1 ?
10:38 cait 10% for easier testing
10:38 cait not in reality in germany
10:38 Joubu GST = 10 % price
10:39 cait hm no i have 0.10 in my gist
10:39 Joubu so 9.9/10, no ?
10:39 cait yes
10:39 cait i'd think that the price including tax should be 10.00 then
10:39 cait if it's 9.90 ecluded the 10%
10:39 cait maybe my calculation is wrong? that's why I am asking... not sure where i am wrong and where Koha is
10:40 cait oooh
10:40 cait you are right
10:41 cait 10% of 10 are 0.10... 9.90 + 10% are 9.90 +.99 so 10.89
10:41 cait gah.
10:41 khan cait: i am trying to manage a library
10:42 cait Joubu: sorry for bothering you, i see now where assumption was wrong
10:42 cait :)
10:42 khan cait: this is kind of a assignment for mr
10:42 khan me
10:43 cait khan: that's ok, but do you want to just see how the data in the database looks like? are you trying to migrate data? do you just want to see the contents of the tables or do you want to make changes?
10:43 Joubu I searched a document I don't find :-/
10:43 cait if you are using linux maybe take a look at tools like mysql workbench?
10:44 cait Joubu: the good news then is that what koha displays is right on the page :)
10:44 Joubu cait: ok great :)
10:45 cait i will continue testing, hopefully not getting confused by math again :)
10:45 khan cait: i want to see and work with it  but i can't even see database
10:45 cait khan: so you installed Koha - are you able to access the catalog and the staff interface?
10:48 khan yes i can create patron library book item
10:48 cait so Koha is working, that's good
10:48 khan yes
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10:49 cait you can create sql reports from within Koha if you want to see the data
10:50 khan how?
10:50 cait it's in the reports module
10:50 cait you can't change the data there, but you can see what's in the tables
10:51 khan got it
10:52 khan in 3.10 if i just write aftet172.0.1.1:8080/phpmyadmin i can see the database
10:52 cait hm
10:52 cait then someone installed phpmyadmin
10:53 cait it doesn't come with standard koha
10:53 cait it's a separate program
10:53 khan ok
10:53 cait maybe with your update that got overwritten
10:53 khan how i can do that
10:53 khan ?
10:53 cait I have never done it
10:53 cait i normally use mysql workbench
10:53 cait as a graphical interface
10:54 khan i was downloding that
10:54 cait then you need your database connection data and it should work
10:55 cait the plus is that you don't need to change things with apache
10:55 cait like you owuld have with phpmyadmin
10:56 khan great
10:56 khan Hey how can i communicate with you without this system
10:57 cait you can also contact people over the mailing lists, but you shouldn't contact me personally
10:58 khan ok
11:02 khan i was looking for koha live dvd/cd for 3.10 but i couldn't find it any where...
11:02 cait 3.10 is very outdated
11:02 cait 3.14 is the current stable version
11:02 khan I have download koha 3.12 live dvd and installed it
11:04 khan that's how i am using it
11:04 khan i am not familier with ubuntu or Koha but i really want to learn
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11:22 khan cait: you there?
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11:49 cait bg
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12:20 oleonard Hi everyone
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12:41 oleonard paxed here?
12:41 paxed yes?
12:41 oleonard Hi paxed, I wondered how Bug 12056 is observable
12:41 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12056 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Untranslatable strings in calendar
12:42 paxed those strings show up when you hover over holiday'd days on the calendar grid
12:43 oleonard Got it, thanks!
12:43 paxed also bug 12055
12:43 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12055 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Typo "holdiay" in calendar
12:44 oleonard Working on those now.
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12:49 oleonard good morning nengard
12:49 nengard morning oleonard
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12:55 francharb_ morning
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13:25 cait oleonard++
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13:52 cait Joubu: still around?
13:54 Joubu cait: yep
13:54 cait i am in the final stages of testing the gst bugs (got interrupted before)
13:54 cait so i wonder
13:55 cait if the list price and the invoice price are without taxes
13:55 cait does that mean that the library does not have to pay the tax
13:55 cait because we calculate it, but it seems only for display?
13:56 Joubu yes, the columns are all displayed. Which is quite stupid/useless in some cases
13:56 cait ok
13:56 cait also if you look at the ordered/spent lists for a fund
13:57 cait for example the spent list, that i see now after I received all my baskets
13:57 cait always says 10 - which was my list price
13:57 cait but it should use the actual price I think?
13:58 cait Joubu: sorry if i am confusing
13:58 Joubu i am not sure which one is used on this screen
13:58 cait I always thought estimated price = what you think you have to pay
13:59 cait actual price = what you really paid
13:59 cait i have actual prices that vary from 9.09 to 11.00 but it still shows always the 10
13:59 cait this whole tax thing is a black hole
14:00 cait but at least with your patch it seems more consistent
14:00 Joubu cait: it shows 10 on the ordered/spent screens?
14:00 cait yeah
14:00 cait 10.00 was the list price i used for all 4 orders
14:00 cait when i received the orders, the calculated price it gave me varied, from 9.09 to 11.00 - i am still trying to wrap my mind around it
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14:02 cait Joubu: ordered/spent - whenyou click on the fund on the acq home page
14:02 Joubu yep
14:02 Joubu I should have a look at the 2 pages. It seems they don't have changed since a long time
14:03 cait i think so, it's the same for the new fund view tho
14:04 cait i mean the amounts match, it just doesn't seem to make sense :(
14:04 Joubu the "new" fund view?
14:04 cait the 'newer' :) there is the acquisitions > funds overview
14:04 cait and the lists with orders you reach directly from the start page
14:05 tgoat joined #koha
14:05 cait maybe part of my problem is bug 10461
14:05 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10461 major, P5 - low, ---, koha, Needs Signoff , tax not taken in to account in the acq budget summaries
14:06 Joubu arf, I forgot this one
14:07 cait i think what i see looks like a return of bug 4831
14:07 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4831 critical, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, srdjan, CLOSED FIXED, Actual Price being ignored after receive
14:07 Joubu cait: we (BibLibre) will try to reconsider/rewrite the price/tax calculation in Koha.
14:08 cait i think it's not even clear how this all shoudl work... makes it really hard
14:08 cait i will run some more tests, sorry for being a pain about this
14:08 Joubu because it is really a nightmare currently, nothing is factorize and the logic is... not logic
14:08 cait yeah...
14:08 cait centralized logic
14:09 cait also i have the feeling like the estimated prices we calculate are not quite right...
14:09 cait not sure.
14:09 Joubu I really hope to have a simple view, with all different cases, all differents screens. With all values well defined.
14:09 cait not sure that will be simple :)
14:09 cait but it would be nice
14:10 cait I have the idea that the tax number registered was once used
14:10 cait to determine if the library pays the tax or not
14:10 cait but i am not sure
14:10 cait it seems it should have a function
14:10 Joubu yes, I don't know (at all...) if prices are correctly calculated for the 4 possibles cases
14:10 cait yeah, your work calculates correctly for the entered list price
14:11 cait which is ok I think so far - i will try to do a bit more testing, but it doesn't look bad
14:11 cait it's just that everything doesn't seem to fit well together, once you look at estimated/actual cost
14:12 cait nightmare.
14:16 cait Joubu: I think that the question of the library having to pay tax or not has to be somehow factored in - and maybe it's the tax number registered.... but I am not sure. Then we would knwo when the tax has to be taken into account for the estimated and the actual cost...
14:16 cait but hm.
14:20 peggy joined #koha
14:23 nengard left #koha
14:24 cait Joubu: the funds view seems correct - i have all 10.00 in the databaes as unitcost - I just don't understand why :(
14:26 cait Joubu: just ignore me...
14:27 Joubu unit price ?
14:28 cait really, ignore me... I think we need to leave the question about which prices are accounted for in the funds for other bugs
14:28 Joubu :)
14:28 * cait sends Joubu some cookies and dives back into tax calculation
14:29 Joubu no, don't dive again!
14:30 cait worried i might drown? :)
14:30 Joubu yes!
14:31 cait :)
14:35 wajasu joined #koha
14:38 druthb Throws a Coast Guard Approved flotation device to cait.
14:38 druthb :P
14:38 cait lol
14:49 oleonard Meeting in 10 minutes?
14:49 cait I think so
14:52 mduncan joined #koha
14:57 gmcharlt meeting now in 4 minutes ;)
14:57 * cait is ready :)
15:00 gmcharlt #startmeeting General meeting, 9 April 2014, part 1
15:00 huginn Meeting started Wed Apr  9 15:00:27 2014 UTC.  The chair is gmcharlt. Information about MeetBot at
15:00 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
15:00 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: General meeting, 9 April 2014, part 1)
15:00 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'general_meeting__9_april_2014__part_1'
15:00 gmcharlt #link[…]ting_9_April_2014 Agenda
15:00 gmcharlt #topic Introductions
15:00 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: General meeting, 9 April 2014, part 1)
15:00 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
15:00 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries
15:00 gmcharlt #info Galen Charlton, 3.16 RM, Equinox Software, USA
15:01 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
15:01 jwagner #info Jane Wagner, LibLime/PTFS
15:01 ColinC #info Colin Campbelll, PTFS Europe Ltd
15:01 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart, BibLibre, France
15:01 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
15:02 mduncan #info Margo Duncan, UT Tyler, USA
15:02 indradg joined #koha
15:03 slef #info MJ Ray,, England
15:03 peggy #info Peggy Thrasher, NH USA
15:04 indradg #info Indranil Das Gupta, L2C2, India
15:04 Bruce_ joined #koha
15:04 gmcharlt thanks
15:05 gmcharlt I'm going to merge the next few agenda items, thus:
15:05 gmcharlt #topic Updates on 3.8, 3.10, 3.12, 3.14, and 3.16
15:05 Topic for #koha is now Updates on 3.8, 3.10, 3.12, 3.14, and 3.16 (Meeting topic: General meeting, 9 April 2014, part 1)
15:05 gmcharlt #topic Updates on 3.8, 3.10, 3.12, 3.14
15:05 Topic for #koha is now Updates on 3.8, 3.10, 3.12, 3.14 (Meeting topic: General meeting, 9 April 2014, part 1)
15:05 gmcharlt any RMaints around to give updates?
15:05 cait #info today's agenda:[…]ting_9_April_2014
15:06 gmcharlt #info Koha 3.12.12 was released on 24 March 2014
15:06 gmcharlt #info Koha 3.14.5 was released on 26 March 2014
15:06 slef cait++
15:07 gmcharlt ok, guess that's it
15:07 gmcharlt #topic Update on 3.16
15:07 Topic for #koha is now Update on 3.16 (Meeting topic: General meeting, 9 April 2014, part 1)
15:07 gmcharlt #link http://lists.koha-community.or[…]April/040419.html Release schedule
15:07 gmcharlt #info Alpha release scheduled for Wednesday, 23 April - RM will clear PQA queue by then
15:07 cait gmcharlt++
15:08 gmcharlt #info Feature freeze scheduled for Monday, 28 April - new features & enhancements must have reached PQA by then to be considered, with leeway giving to the new cataloging editor
15:08 gmcharlt #info Beta release will be cut on Wednesday, 30 April; soft string freeze starts then as well
15:09 gmcharlt #info Firm string freeze starts on Monday, 5 April
15:09 gmcharlt #info RC will be cut on Monday, 19 May
15:09 gmcharlt #info General release will occur on Thursday, 22 May
15:09 slef PQA is Passed Quality Assurance
15:09 slef RC is Release Candidate
15:09 gmcharlt correct
15:09 slef gmcharlt: I know, just making sure wahanui is uptodate
15:09 gmcharlt ah, gotcha
15:10 gmcharlt questions for me?
15:10 Bruce_ translations are appreciated
15:10 gmcharlt slef++
15:11 cait There are still a lot of things waiting for sign off that would be nice additions to 3.16... and the new cataloguing editor needs testing I think?
15:11 slef ok, I'm not seeing stats on the dashboard so I'm grubbing around
15:11 slef oh my bad, scroll down
15:11 gmcharlt yep
15:12 cait #info 170 needs signoff, 68 signed off currently
15:12 slef #info 170+52 needs signoff, 68+21 waiting for QA, 180 failed QA, 36 Patch Does Not Apply
15:12 cait slef: 170 is including the 52 :)
15:12 slef oh is that "170, 52 of which"?
15:12 slef gotcha
15:13 slef #info correction: 170 needs signoff, 68 waiting for QA, 180 failed QA, 36 Patch Does Not Apply
15:13 gmcharlt magnuse: is a GBSD in the works, perchance?
15:13 slef Need Signoff needs ad-hoc developers to get off our lazy backsides and do some initial reviewing
15:13 slef What's the plan for those 180 and 36?
15:14 cait slef: hoping for someone to gett of their backsides? ;)
15:14 slef cait: sure, but the original developers or is it open season?
15:14 cait i am not sure there is a plan, we had it down to around a 100 after the hackfest, but it came back up quickly
15:15 gmcharlt no
15:15 gmcharlt perhaps that's a project role to consider: Official Kitten Rescuer
15:15 oleonard I don't see why another dev couldn't fix conflicts if they really wanted to
15:15 cait oh sorry, confused the queues
15:16 gmcharlt thought at the moment I'm not sure whether we have mroe than a title to offer
15:16 cait i was talking about the 170 signed off
15:16 gmcharlt yeah, I'm thinking more about the failed QA, not the patch-does-not-apply
15:16 thd The time between RC and general release seems very short for testing , although, it may be based on some similar time having been passed and no stopping bugs found.
15:16 gmcharlt although there are probably at least a few useful contributions from casual contributors in that status that just need somebody to deal with the merge conflict
15:16 slef might be worth RM or similar to declare "I am particularly keen to see the following list fixed by anyone:"
15:17 gmcharlt slef: yes, that's a thought I'll take up
15:17 oleonard Whatever happened to the patch-applying bot?
15:17 slef #idea it might be worth RM or similar to declare "I am particularly keen to see the following list fixed by anyone:"
15:17 cait I think someone complained it was turned off
15:17 gmcharlt thd: to be clear, extensive testing should being with the beta release, and I'll make an announcement to that effect
15:17 * slef wonders if he can declare #idea
15:17 cait I'd like to see it back in action actually, and even improved to run qa script and tests automatically
15:17 gmcharlt testing of the RC is mostly just to verify that there aren't stupid errors
15:18 thd Yes of course.
15:18 gmcharlt cait: something to discuss with rangi, I imagine
15:18 gmcharlt and/or bribe with cookies and chocolate
15:18 cait yeah, but i think having a few votes for starting it again could help persuade him
15:18 slef would people prefer me to work on needs signoff or does not apply?
15:19 gmcharlt slef: yes, everybody can use #idea
15:19 oleonard slef: I would think needs signoff
15:19 gmcharlt slef: my preference would be for you to glance at does not apply to see if there are any obvious wins, but to focus on needs signoff
15:19 cait slef: I am torn there - i think both have gems
15:19 Joubu Are you sure someone test beta versions?
15:20 cait Joubu: we can't really force people to - maybe we could reserve a sandbox?
15:20 slef Just for context, I think I've up to 7 hours available to get back up to speed on koha-community this month, less the time in this meeting.
15:20 gmcharlt Joubu: to be blunt,  I'm pretty sure that folks don't in general test as much as we would like them to, but I'll try to encourage people to test the beta
15:20 cait to make it easier? but some of the demos arealso running master
15:21 gmcharlt but yeah, beta sandboxes would be nice, and highlighting some of the master demos
15:21 cait maybe when you write the email - include some links to demos or a setup sandbox?
15:21 cait :)
15:21 cait #idea highlight sandboxes and demos running the beta for testers
15:21 Joubu I think the only person to test pre release versions are developpers
15:22 Joubu but maybe I am wrong, I don't know
15:22 Bruce_ Would an additional (funded) sandbox help?
15:22 gmcharlt by and large, although I thik most of us have at least a couple customers apiece who are engaged enough to respond to a request to test a beta
15:22 slef I'm happy to mail our libraries asking for testing if there's a beta sandbox available.
15:23 * gmcharlt will also specifically request beta testing to be done by a couple of our customers who are generally willing to do that sort of thing
15:25 gmcharlt OK, time to move on in the agenda
15:25 gmcharlt #topic Nominations for roles for 3.18
15:25 Topic for #koha is now Nominations for roles for 3.18 (Meeting topic: General meeting, 9 April 2014, part 1)
15:25 gmcharlt #link[…]ki/Roles_for_3.18 Current 3.18 nominations
15:26 gmcharlt as it stands now, we have candidates for RM and RMaints for the two most recent stable branches
15:26 Joubu slef: all sandboxes listed on[…]ailable_Sandboxes are available
15:26 gmcharlt as well as translation manager, doc manager, QA manager, and QA team members
15:26 gmcharlt so a couple things I'd like to point out
15:26 gmcharlt first -- is there interesting in maintaining 3.12 further?
15:27 gmcharlt and if so, is there somebody interested in being RMaint for that release?
15:27 slef NAFAIK but I will ask what I think is our last 3.12 library if they're going to agree an upgrade date with us or if they want to fund maintenance ;-)
15:27 cait we are still running it... probably for a bit longer... so I would be happy if we got someone
15:28 grharry joined #koha
15:29 hankbank joined #koha
15:29 slef Joubu: Sorry, I've been away. Don't they run master rather than a beta or RC?
15:29 slef cait: got any funding? ;-)
15:29 gmcharlt I'm incilned to write an email to koha-devel, then, specifically asking for somebody to step up, or for us to declare EOL of 3.12
15:29 gmcharlt (and the same for 3.10 and 3.8, though more likely it would be EOL for those)
15:29 Joubu slef: yes, they run master.
15:30 gmcharlt Joubu: is it easy to pin a couple of them to a beta tag when the time comes?
15:30 cait slef: shouldn't hurt if they run on master instead of beta - testing master after beta cut would also be helpful
15:30 Joubu gmcharlt: yep, we can remove the reset --hard origin/master at midnight :)
15:31 gmcharlt cool
15:31 slef cait: ok, I bow to you
15:31 cait hm?
15:31 gmcharlt #action Galen will send a query to koha-devel regarding status of 3.12, 3.10, and 3.8
15:31 gmcharlt next thing - a new type of role is being discussed more seriously
15:32 gmcharlt specifically, a module maintainer
15:32 gmcharlt some discussion about it has occurred here
15:32 gmcharlt[…]ule_maintainer_do
15:32 gmcharlt #link[…]ule_maintainer_do module maintainer discussion
15:32 gmcharlt though I'm inclined to move that over to koha-devel
15:33 slef I'd appreciate that because I rarely have my wiki login handy now we don't have openid
15:34 slef Isn't it largely up to the RM to organise the team as he wants, though?
15:34 gmcharlt I think the developing consensus so far as that MMs are folks who take responsibility for certain areas, have the authority (in conjunction with the RM) to push to master for those areas, but do not bypass the review and QA requirements
15:34 slef he/she/it
15:34 * slef leaves the option of wahanui as RM open
15:34 gmcharlt slef: yes, I think RM oversight is key -- specifically, an RM should have the right to tell an MM to back off or switch to using pull rqeuests rather than pushing directly
15:35 cait +1
15:35 gmcharlt but overall, I think the MM concept has value, *provided* that it doesn't become an excuse to bypass QA
15:35 oleonard How would the process be different between MM and standard QA workflow?
15:36 cait the MM can also work on patches in PQA
15:36 cait so hopefully taking some of the weight from the RM - that's how i understand
15:36 gmcharlt right
15:37 gmcharlt to restate another way
15:37 gmcharlt patch passes QA
15:37 gmcharlt old behavior: only the RM can review and push it
15:37 gmcharlt new behavior: the RM can review and push it, or the relevant MM can review and push it, but MM and RM must communicate
15:37 gmcharlt in addition, I think it would be good for MMs to actively manage pre-QA patches
15:38 gmcharlt e.g., rescue failed-QA patches, do code cleanup, and the like
15:39 gmcharlt #action Galen will move the MM discussion to koha-devel
15:39 gmcharlt a quick straw poll
15:39 gmcharlt +1/0/-1 on the general idea of having module maintainers?
15:39 Bruce_ +1
15:39 cait +1
15:39 ColinC +1
15:39 Joubu +1
15:39 oleonard +1
15:39 jwagner +1
15:39 peggy +1
15:39 slef 0
15:40 thd +1
15:40 gmcharlt OK, the final topic relating to project roles... when/how do we want to hold the formal elecctions?
15:41 * cait suggests a date next week - only topic elections?
15:41 gmcharlt I don't think today is really an option given (a) lack of notice and (b) the potential need for at least one more RMaint
15:41 gmcharlt cait: sounds reasonable to me
15:42 Joubu Maybe should we wait for Tomas?
15:42 thd However, we have in the  past filled seats for which there were candidates on the designated day.
15:43 gmcharlt do we know when tcohen will be back?
15:43 cait I am not sure when he returns - but I think we have voted for people not being present in the past. And the situation didn't change since he left
15:43 cait no other candidate
15:43 cait quite sure he told me, but I can't remember :(
15:43 gmcharlt right
15:43 Bruce_ Does anyone expect another candidate to appear in the next week?
15:43 ColinC ls -al
15:44 Joubu he left for 3 weeks I think
15:44 gmcharlt I don't see that we have any contested elections; I think it's just a matter of formalizing the selection
15:46 Joubu It could be great to know how he defines a MM
15:47 gmcharlt agreed, he should weight in
15:47 gmcharlt *weigh in
15:47 reiveune bye
15:47 reiveune left #koha
15:47 gmcharlt regardless, I think part of that can be deferred, as the MMs don't need to be in place right away
15:47 gmcharlt so to that idea, I propose that we hold an IRC meeting next Wednesday to vote
15:48 gmcharlt alternatively, we could just do an email thread
15:48 gmcharlt what do folks prefer?
15:49 cait I think i have a slight preference for irc - but that might just be me :)
15:49 Bruce_ I'm hearing a great roar of indifference.
15:49 gmcharlt indeed
15:50 slef either is OK with me
15:50 gmcharlt actually, I have a thought on how to be more efficent
15:50 druthb http://gaspull.geeksaresexytec[…]/Grey-Lantern.jpg
15:50 gmcharlt to wit: schedule the next dev meeting for Wednesday the 23rd
15:50 gmcharlt with the two-part schedule, and as a (small) agenda item, hold the vote then
15:50 peggy Sounds good
15:51 Bruce_ +1
15:51 cait +1
15:51 gmcharlt +1
15:51 gmcharlt #agreed (pending confirmation) the next dev meeting will be scheduled for 23 April. Project roles for 3.18 will be voted on then.
15:52 gmcharlt moving on
15:52 gmcharlt #topic KohaCon 14 update
15:52 Topic for #koha is now KohaCon 14 update (Meeting topic: General meeting, 9 April 2014, part 1)
15:52 thd +1
15:52 gmcharlt which I think will be short since neither tcohen or bgkriegel are here
15:52 gmcharlt so
15:53 gmcharlt #topic KohaCon 15
15:53 Topic for #koha is now KohaCon 15 (Meeting topic: General meeting, 9 April 2014, part 1)
15:53 gmcharlt it's probably time to start the site selection process
15:53 gmcharlt do we have a volunteer to kick it of?
15:53 gmcharlt *off
15:54 thd What does "kicking off" entail?
15:55 gmcharlt thd: at least initially, sending an email to the list soliciting bids, and managing the wiki pages related to site selection
15:56 rocio joined #koha
15:56 gmcharlt OK - I'll ask again at the second part of the meeting
15:56 thd s done by next month, then I volunteer, but unfortunately I am severely overcommitted this month.
15:57 gmcharlt and bug people via email if no volunteer shows up (thd, we'll keep your offer in mind)
15:57 gmcharlt OK, we've set a date for the enxt developer meeting
15:57 gmcharlt so
15:57 gmcharlt #topic Set time and date of the next General IRC meeting
15:57 Topic for #koha is now Set time and date of the next General IRC meeting (Meeting topic: General meeting, 9 April 2014, part 1)
15:57 thd gremlins swallowed some of my words there.
15:57 gmcharlt how does 7 May soudn to folks?
15:58 cait ok for me
15:58 thd What hours?
15:58 oleonard Same two times?
15:59 cait ü1
15:59 cait +1
15:59 peggy +1
15:59 Bruce_ -1
15:59 gmcharlt oleonard: indeed - I'm proposing 15:00 UTC and 21:00 UTC
15:59 thd +1
15:59 oleonard +1
15:59 cait Bruce_: just interested - you don't want the plit meetings are are both times inconvenient?
16:00 gmcharlt or is it the date?
16:00 cait :)
16:00 Bruce_ Sorry, wrong fingers. Make that a 0.
16:00 Bruce_ My calendar just books up more than a month ahead.
16:00 slef +1
16:01 gmcharlt #agreed (pending confirmation) the next general meeting will be on 7 May at 15:00 / 21:00 UTC
16:01 thd Bruce_: as a future guide there has been a preference for the first or early Wednesday in a month.
16:01 gmcharlt any last minute topics?
16:02 Bruce_ I'll try to clear first Wednesdays then.
16:02 Joubu gmcharlt: yep
16:02 kmlussier joined #koha
16:02 gmcharlt Joubu: go for it
16:02 Joubu does someone copied the 2 "AGREED" from last meeting?
16:02 kmlussier left #koha
16:02 Joubu the paste is not accessible anymore :-/
16:02 Joubu http://meetings.koha-community[…]-03-12-21.25.html
16:02 Joubu 3d, 3e
16:03 gmcharlt Joubu: ah
16:03 gmcharlt I'll see if I can recover them
16:03 Joubu k thanks. Maybe should we put them on the wiki
16:03 gmcharlt agreed
16:04 gmcharlt thanks, everybody
16:04 gmcharlt #endmeeting
16:04 Topic for #koha is now Next general meeting is 9 April 2014 at 15:00 and 21:00 UTC. Welcome to the IRC home of Koha Please use for pastes.
16:04 huginn Meeting ended Wed Apr  9 16:04:48 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
16:04 huginn Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-04-09-15.00.html
16:04 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]4-04-09-15.00.txt
16:04 huginn Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]09-15.00.log.html
16:04 cait gmcharlt++
16:05 wajasu is there a place that shows the current roles(RM, Qa,  MM, etc) .  or maybe a bot command that could list them?
16:05 cait check roles 3.16 on the wiki
16:05 wajasu ok
16:05 peggy Thanks!
16:05 cait[…]ki/Roles_for_3.16
16:09 cait bbl
16:14 fridolin see you, have a nice evening
16:14 fridolin left #koha
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16:34 mcooper joined #koha
16:38 cait_afk back
16:42 rhcl joined #koha
16:43 rhcl @wunder 64507
16:43 huginn rhcl: The current temperature in Wyatt Park, St Joseph, Missouri is 19.1°C (11:43 AM CDT on April 09, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 30%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Falling).
17:04 slef #8375
17:04 slef bug 8375
17:04 wahanui i heard bug 8375 was surposed to fix something, and it's on the right track, but not sufficiant to make utf-8 work.
17:04 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8375 normal, P5 - low, ---, matted-34813, Needs Signoff , Common diacritics not shown correctly when exporting batch label to PDF
17:05 mtompset joined #koha
17:07 mtompset I have a question about typographical mistakes in a template. If there is a typo in the english template, and there are a lot of translated templates that use that typo. How do the translated templates get fixed? Do they each have to be fixed manually to correct the bad msgstrid (or whatever it is)?
17:08 slef mtompset: in other projects, the tools help but the translators still have to confirm that their translated string didn't change.
17:08 mtompset So, you don't have to fix the po files, when you correct a typo?
17:08 oleonard mtompset: When the English templates are updated the po file gets updated, and new strings get classified as needing translation
17:09 oleonard Specifically, the po file gets updated after string freeze during the release process
17:09 mtompset Because I'd generally assume that translator's would catch the typo and put the correct translation, and that fixing the id string would be okay.
17:11 oleonard If a string is changed or added, the po file shows it as a new (or possibly fuzzy) string which requires translator attention.
17:13 mtompset Okay... ignore the po files, leave it to the translators. :)
17:14 oleonard Right. We don't update the po files as we go.
17:17 Brooke joined #koha
17:17 Brooke o/
17:21 oleonard mtompset: Bug 12055 is assigned to me because I have a fix in for it as part of another patch
17:21 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12055 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Typo "holdiay" in calendar
17:21 cait :)
17:21 mtompset Ah. Okay.
17:22 mtompset reference?
17:25 paxed bug 12056
17:25 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12056 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Untranslatable strings in calendar
17:38 mario joined #koha
17:41 Dyrcona joined #koha
17:45 mtompset oleonard: Why did you remove the name="cancel2"?
17:45 oleonard it does not provide functionality and it is invalid markup
17:47 mtompset granted no functionality, but invalid markup?[…]links.html#edef-A -- There is a name attribute.
17:48 oleonard In HTML 4, yes. Not in HTML 5
17:48 mtompset Oops... wrong standard.
17:51 mtompset oleonard: How did you decide between 1st vs. 1 use?
17:52 oleonard There were instances of 1st and 10st. I thought it was easier to just drop the st rather than correct it
17:52 mtompset Oh, I was wondering about line 349.
17:53 mtompset you changed a 1st to a 1, but I saw you add st in another case.
17:53 oleonard Not intentionally
17:54 mtompset Let me recheck... maybe I read the wrong side...
17:55 mtompset I misread. Sorry.
18:00 mtompset Okay. Eyeballs well. :)
18:02 rhcl joined #koha
18:15 rocio can somebody help me with a patron messaging preferences question? it's my understanding that in the patron categories, Email has to be checked in order for Digest to be checked as well. is this correct? and once both are checked, patrons will only receive the digest version of the email?
18:18 cait rocio: yes,but only for new patrons
18:18 cait it never changes settings for existing patrons
18:19 rocio ah! I see!
18:19 rocio thank you very much cait :)
18:19 cait sure, hope it helps :)
18:20 rocio I have a script that will update the message prefs, but couldn't get the Digest preference to actually stick! yes, this is very helpful!
18:36 cait :)
18:41 bag @cait++
18:41 huginn bag: I've exhausted my database of quotes
18:41 bag cait++
18:50 mtompset I think you may use twitter too much, bag. ;)
18:52 mtompset oleonard: Since we care about markup standards, I figured I'd validate the tools/holidays page while testing 12056. I found markup issues in as well. Care to test bug 12060? :)
18:52 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12060 normal, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Needs Signoff , Indentation issues allow markup errors in
18:52 oleonard Sure. Those errors have been around for a while and I keep pointedly ignoring them ;)
18:53 mtompset don't tell me... you have a patch for that already elsewhere?
18:54 * cait thinks oleonard has a patch for everything
18:54 cait :)
18:54 * mtompset nods.
18:54 oleonard Maybe in my head, but not in reality
18:56 mtompset This reminds me of "the god chip" discussions I used to have in the computer science club. You could either have all knowledge statically accessible and deliverable instantly or you could have one which is able to solve the problem instantly and deliver the answer instantly. Both cases look identical, but the implementations are different.
18:57 mtompset I think oleonard is admitting to the latter design. ;)
18:58 oleonard If that were true my git repo wouldn't have so many languishing unfinished branches
18:58 WNickC joined #koha
18:59 mtompset Still the perception may be the same. ;)
19:00 oleonard is interesting in that it offers logic for what to display if you are not logged in but that case never executes.
19:10 mtompset Yes, but I was only concerned about the /li and /div tags.
19:31 oleonard mtompset: If you are interested in testing templates for validity I recommend the Html Validator plugin for Firefox (
19:34 mtompset joined #koha
19:34 mtompset Giving the addon a whirl, oleonard. :)
19:36 mtompset Nice... saves the whole cut and pasting step. :)
19:42 mtompset oleonard: which you had told me about this BEFORE I tested my changes the hard way. :P
19:42 mtompset ^which^wish^
19:42 mtompset Thanks for the sign off.
19:42 mtompset Almost done a sign off for 12056.
19:44 * cait installs a new plugin :)
19:46 mtompset Wow. I feel like I'm harassing oleonard today with questions and requests.
19:47 cait and you try to get my queue over 70 again!
19:47 cait but i am still fighting! :)
19:47 mtompset oleonard: What do you think of bug 12046? -- It essentially increases the size of the login modal for bootstrap.
19:47 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=12046 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Passed QA , Authentication using CAS - bootstrap
19:48 meliss joined #koha
19:49 oleonard mtompset: I haven't looked at it carefully. If you're really concerned about it you could put it "In discussion" in order to delay it from getting pushed. I can't look at it today.
19:50 cait hm not sure of it's worth delaying - it's a real problem for CAS users
19:50 cait and the design could still be improved later
19:50 mtompset I already noted my concern.
19:50 oleonard That was my thought as well cait based on what I saw
19:51 NateC joined #koha
19:51 cait i think it's unlikely that you will have more than 1/2 authentication methods used at a time
19:51 mtompset I'm not going to delay something that does what it says it is intended to do and solves an immediate problem.
19:51 cait so the size of the modal doesn't bother me too much right now
19:53 cait mtompset: why the calendar page for the header change?
19:53 cait isn't htat used on all pages?
19:53 mtompset It is. I just checked on the calendar page, because that is where I encountered it.
19:54 oleonard cait: But you might encounter different validation problems on other pages, so at least the test plan is specific.
19:54 cait true :)
19:54 cait was just wondering if I missed something
19:54 cait i am about to pass it :)
19:54 mtompset Thanks, cait. :)
19:56 cait next time maybe 2 patces? one whitespace and one the changes?
19:56 cait :)
19:56 oleonard I disagree
19:57 oleonard I use the -w flag with git diff
19:57 cait i did that as well
19:57 cait but when you look at it later in the git repo or on bugzilla it's much harder to tell
19:58 cait but that's an old argument, i think there are valid points to both sides :) and it's pqa
19:58 cait thx for fixing the list permission bug
19:59 * oleonard didn't like being on the list of "patch doesn't apply" people mentioned during the meeting ;)
20:00 cait heh
20:01 cait oh one more hour to the next
20:01 cait oleonard: the fixing it include doing less compiling? I am never quite sure right now
20:01 cait did fixing it...
20:01 oleonard Yes
20:01 cait ah
20:01 cait so i was not too evil for setting it to pda
20:02 oleonard But from now on opac.css will *always* conflict if there are changes to a less file because it is minified.
20:03 cait i know you don't like separate patches...
20:03 cait but maybe we could have the css change separate?
20:03 cait then it would be easier to fix the conflict (once i have learned how to do the compiling)
20:03 cait maybe next weke
20:04 indradg joined #koha
20:04 indradg hi #koha
20:05 indradg i need a spot of help with the bcrypt password hashes in 'borrowers'
20:06 indradg was looking at the code, and it seems that passwd match is being done by calling hash_password with two param - a) the passwd entered by the user and b) the stored passwd hash in the db for that user
20:06 cait indradg: i saw your post on fb, but I think I won't be able to help - maybe ask rangi or papa?
20:06 indradg do I have that correct?
20:07 indradg cait: thanks :) rangi already nudged me towards bcrypt and away from md5 :-)
20:07 indradg rangi: ^^^
20:08 cait i think he isn't around yet, might be later
20:13 oleonard Bye #koha
20:17 matts_away joined #koha
20:41 mtompset indradg: What's the question? Not that I can help, but I like listening and learning. :)
20:43 mtompset Actually the second parameter is a SALT (see Koha::AuthUtils
20:47 indradg mtompset: thanks. what I'm trying to do will prolly help... I've a 3.10 to 3.14 upgrade on my hands. as part of service extension, the client wants Squid proxy authentications to work off the 'borrowers' table. I got squid_db_auth working with md5_base64, i need to get it to work with bcrypt as well.
20:47 mtompset is squid_db_auth in Koha's code?
20:48 indradg no... squid_db_auth is a part of Squid3, allowing squid to authenticate off a MySQL db
20:50 cait indradg: hm what about using one of the webservices?
20:50 cait mabe that would work?
20:50 cait you can authenticate using sip2, using ils-di and i think there is also something in the restful api
20:50 cait svc directory
20:51 gmcharlt meeting in 10 minutes
20:51 indradg cait: was considering that
20:52 cait indradg: this way future changes wouldn't break your auth again
20:59 gmcharlt dear cat: if you persist in standing in front of my monitor, YOU will get to run the meeting
21:01 gmcharlt #startmeeting General meeting, 9 April 2014, part 2
21:01 huginn Meeting started Wed Apr  9 21:01:46 2014 UTC.  The chair is gmcharlt. Information about MeetBot at
21:01 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
21:01 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: General meeting, 9 April 2014, part 2)
21:01 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'general_meeting__9_april_2014__part_2'
21:02 gmcharlt #link[…]ting_9_April_2014 Agenda
21:02 gmcharlt #link http://meetings.koha-community[…]-04-09-15.00.html Minutes from first part
21:02 indradg joined #koha
21:02 gmcharlt #link http://meetings.koha-community[…]09-15.00.log.html Log from first part
21:02 gmcharlt #topic Introductions
21:02 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
21:02 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: General meeting, 9 April 2014, part 2)
21:02 gmcharlt #info Galen Charlton, 3.16 RM, Equinox, USA
21:02 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
21:03 indradg #info Indranil Das Gupta, L2C2, India
21:05 cait hm that could be a quick meeting
21:05 gmcharlt indeed
21:05 cait we should have a vote for something silly :)
21:06 cait don't go barton...
21:06 barton_away heh!
21:07 gmcharlt OK, give the small attendence, I'll start with repeating the most important announcements
21:07 gmcharlt #topic Announcements
21:07 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: General meeting, 9 April 2014, part 2)
21:07 * barton_away is *always* up for something silly.
21:07 gmcharlt #link http://lists.koha-community.or[…]April/040419.html Release schedule
21:08 gmcharlt #info 3.14 reelase schedule: 23 April - alpha release; 28 April - feature freeze; 30 April - beta release and soft string freeze; 5 May - firm string freeze; 19 May - RC cut; 22 May general release
21:08 bag #info Brendan Gallagher, ByWater
21:08 gmcharlt #info Folks will be trying to highlight the availability of sandboxes and the like to encourage testing of the beta
21:09 gmcharlt hmm, I think we can know swing the vote for the Official Sport of Koha to baseball! ;)
21:09 bag YES!!!
21:09 bag +many many many 1's
21:09 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
21:09 cait heh
21:10 gmcharlt #link[…]ki/Roles_for_3.18 Current 3.18 nominations
21:10 gmcharlt #info Galen will be posting a query regarding whether 3.12 and earlier releases will continue to be maintained
21:10 gmcharlt #link[…]ule_maintainer_do module maintainer discussion
21:11 gmcharlt the next dev meeting is tenatively scheduled for 23 April, and project roles will be voted on there
21:11 gmcharlt I'm now thinking that 15/22 UTC may be better than 15/21 UTC
21:12 cait agreed
21:12 barton #info Barton Chittenden, ByWater
21:13 gmcharlt OK, unless there's an object, that's what I'll announce
21:13 gmcharlt #agreed Next dev meeting is scheduled for 23 April at 15:00 UTC and 22:00 UTC.  Voting for 3.18 project roles will take place then
21:13 mtompset #info Mark Tompsett
21:13 bag agreed
21:14 thd 22 UTC is a problem for me on the first Wed. of the month but I should not really need to attend both times.
21:14 gmcharlt at the first meeting we issued a call for volunteers to kick off the Koha 15 selection process
21:14 gmcharlt thd has volunteered, but can't get started until next month
21:16 gmcharlt and based on when we did it last year, that looks like it's soon eough
21:16 gmcharlt so thd, I guess you should plan on doing it
21:16 thd gmcharlt: Were you proposing to change next month's second time to 22 UTC or only the meeting for voting on roles?
21:16 gmcharlt thd: I think the general meeting as well
21:18 gmcharlt so speaking of which, the next general meeting was tentatively scheduled for 7 May at 15:00 / 21:00 UTC, but I suggest that the second part be scheduled for 22:00 UCT
21:18 thd OK, I should at least be present for the first time on the day and will plan on starting the process for KohaCon 15 next month.
21:18 gmcharlt thoughts?
21:19 BobB #info Bob Birchall, sorry I'm late
21:19 bag no comments - but I hope I still think
21:19 gmcharlt BobB: actually, you're just in time to answer a question regarding scheduling -- would 22 UTC work better for you rather than 21 UTC?
21:21 thd gmcharlt: I do not remember the consensus from the earlier meeting on how to further discussion defining the scope of module maintainer roles if such scope would even need to be defined.
21:22 gmcharlt I'll be moving the discussion to koha-devel, where it will have more exposure
21:22 gmcharlt but it also depends in large part on what structure tcohen wants to work with
21:24 BobB yes, 22 UTC is 8am, not 7
21:25 BobB yes gmcharlt, 22 UTC is 8am ,not 7
21:26 cait sounds a lot better
21:26 BobB :)
21:27 gmcharlt OK
21:27 * BobB is waking slowly
21:27 gmcharlt #agreed The next general meeting will be 7 May 2014 at 15/22 UTC
21:29 gmcharlt any other questions or discussions?
21:30 BobB I hope the first half was a little more active?
21:30 mtompset Mmm....
21:30 * mtompset goes hunting for agenda.
21:30 cait BobB: yes, I thimk we hit a better time there
21:31 BobB cool
21:31 thd BobB: Attendence was down at the earlier hour but more active than this presently.
21:31 mtompset Why do we have so many "active" versions of Koha?
21:32 mtompset 3.8, 3.10, ...
21:32 cait because we have module maintainers for those
21:32 cait as long as someone steps up, the version is maintained
21:32 NateC joined #koha
21:33 BobB somepeople don't upgrade, there are forks etc
21:33 mtompset Is 3.8 the Windows XP of Koha?
21:33 rangi neither of those are really valid reasons though, basically maintaining a version while someone is willing to
21:33 rangi no
21:34 gmcharlt I have a preference for encouraging folks to not let themselves get too far behind
21:34 rangi 3.8 is only 2 years old
21:34 rangi and is no longer maintained anyway
21:34 rangi the last release was february
21:34 gmcharlt I think the big questions are 3.12 and possibly 3.10
21:35 WNickC joined #koha
21:35 rangi maintaining a version for 2 years seems pretty good to me
21:35 BobB the version one back from current should always be maintained, imo
21:35 gmcharlt yeah, I'd think stable and stable -1 would be the bare minimum
21:35 rangi if we want to get into debian proper and we do
21:35 BobB yeah, two years makes sense
21:36 gmcharlt which would translate to 3.16 and 3.14 upon the releae of 3.16
21:36 rangi we would need ot maintain for about that long
21:36 gmcharlt stable - 2 would be nice, as it's only 1.5 years back
21:36 gmcharlt but it does depend on (at least) a rmaint for 3.12 stepping up
21:36 rangi yep
21:37 Dyrcona joined #koha
21:37 rangi sorry for being late i was in a real life meeting
21:37 BobB rangi, this is real life!  :)
21:38 gmcharlt rangi: more generally, is 22 UTC preferable to 21 UCT for you?
21:38 rangi yes
21:38 BobB woot woot
21:39 gmcharlt OK, I'll do as I planned already, and put out a call for final nominations
21:39 gmcharlt with an emphasis on rmaints
21:39 nengard joined #koha
21:39 rangi sounds good to me
21:39 gmcharlt rangi: thoughts on the MM discussion, or shall you just weigh in when I start a therad on koha-devel?
21:40 rangi basically that really they should work the way that the RM wants them to work, but that its vital they not short cut QA
21:41 rangi so if RM wants them to pick from things passed qa, push to master .. thats fine, if push to a branch, then merge to master fine too, the important step is that the QA role is still done
21:41 rangi but someone other than the person pushing
21:41 rangi thats my 2cents anyway
21:41 cait :) +1
21:41 gmcharlt other than /just/ the pesron pushing
21:41 BobB +1
21:41 rangi yep
21:43 cait I think the important bit is to have more people on the pqa witout reduing the eyes on a patch
21:43 cait if that makes sense
21:44 gmcharlt yep
21:44 gmcharlt OK, any final comments or topics?
21:46 gmcharlt OK, thanks everybody!
21:46 gmcharlt #endmeeting
21:46 rangi did we cover kohacon14 call for talks?
21:46 Topic for #koha is now Next general meeting is 9 April 2014 at 15:00 and 21:00 UTC. Welcome to the IRC home of Koha Please use for pastes.
21:46 huginn Meeting ended Wed Apr  9 21:46:19 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
21:46 huginn Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-04-09-21.01.html
21:46 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]4-04-09-21.01.txt
21:46 huginn Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]09-21.01.log.html
21:46 gmcharlt rangi: neither tcohen nor bgkriegel where here today; are there others involved in the program?
21:46 cait rangi: tcohen is still gone, so we didn't talk much about kohacon14
21:48 cait what do you have in mind?
21:48 BobB ok, breakfast
21:48 rangi well the page is there
21:48 rangi[…]/call-for-papers/
21:48 cait hm you mean we should advertise?
21:48 rangi i was wondering if we should just highlight that
21:48 rangi and the registration page again too
21:48 rangi cos ... its not long now
21:48 cait true
21:49 cait we probably should
21:49 cait do we know if something has been sent out to other mailing lists so far?
21:49 cait aprt from the koha lists?
21:50 rangi not that ive seen
21:51 cait hm we were wondering at the first meetin gwhen tcohen will be back
21:52 cait I stll don't know
21:58 rangi yeah, ok, maybe shelve that til next week
21:58 gmcharlt I've sent out a tweet
21:59 gmcharlt but yeah, beyond that sort of thing I think we need to wait
22:01 wajasu i put preliminary patch for bug 11232 to dicern if that strategy would be something that would be released, if anyone has time to run it (dev install) and give feedback, i would persue adding UNIMAC and suggested followups.
22:01 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11232 new feature, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, ASSIGNED , Retrieve facets from Zebra
22:04 gmcharlt wajasu: my immediate comments upon glancing at it is yes
22:04 gmcharlt obviously, it needs test cases
22:05 gmcharlt also, I'd strongly prefer that new code to parse facets from the Zebra responses be put in a separate routine or routines, not just tacked inside getRecords
22:05 rangi +1
22:06 gmcharlt but unless there is unexpected weirdness in how Zebra calculates facets, I think this is a very reason direction to try
22:07 wajasu ok. then i'll invest time in it.  any suggestions on how i should test unimarc. just do a dev install with unimarc as choice.  are there test unmarc records i can load?
22:08 gmcharlt wajasu: there's a tiny sample under t/db_dependent/data/unimarc/zebraexport/
22:08 cait there is the sandbox database
22:08 cait it includes unimarc authorities
22:08 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 12060: remove extraneous tags from <[…]0add5412b7d44d11e>
22:08 cait it's in the koha repository with the sandbox code
22:10 wajasu i had to specify new indexes for a couple of subfields.  don't know if i should call then Subject-to or su-to  for topical?  any suggestions?   Subject-geo vs su-geo
22:12 gmcharlt wajasu: I prefer Subject-longer, not su-sh
22:12 gmcharlt as it were
22:12 gmcharlt though you can include the shorter versions as aliases
22:12 wajasu ok. thats what i did so far.  i can add them as aliases.
22:13 * mtompset likes the short versions available as aliases idea. :)
22:15 wajasu but it would be nice to get feedback on if this helps performance. i only have 30k bibs in my prod.
22:18 cait i think you shoudl see a difference
22:18 cait if you do a search for all your records and set the facets to 30000
22:18 cait it gets a lot slower
22:18 cait with the way we do it now
22:18 cait compared to the 20 setting that is standard
22:18 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 12056: fix untranslatable strings in calendar <[…]cefd3a5bc3e58292e>
22:20 nengard left #koha
22:20 wajasu seeing counters is neat.
22:21 wajasu i acually played around with 650a   and though 650x could be supplied to the facet heirarchy and later the facet UI could hover and show subdivisions.
22:22 wajasu so that the inital list is not too big.
22:23 wajasu i would still need to incorporate Hidden like Suppress for biblios that have all items hidden.
22:26 wajasu does the marc editor keep the marcxml and tables in sync.  so when the biblio export for rebuild happens, the items in the marcxml are in sync, or do we just query the items fromthe DB on needed pages.
22:27 rangi i have no idea what this email means
22:27 rangi Which Koha-file is an analogue of the syspar.par file from the package "CDS/ISIS for Windows" ?
22:28 bag reply 42
22:28 cait yeah, me neither
22:29 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10865: (Follow-up) Add CSS style for form hints <[…]a805dacede165bc9a> / bug 10865: (follow-up) allow patrons to make their public lists private when OpacAllo... <[…]8d863d605a6ba63e8> / Bug 10865: (follow-up) Move a li tag to avoid overlapping tags <http
22:29 rangi i just said, i have no idea what you are asking
22:29 gmcharlt rangi: I believe the answer to the question, not that I'm inclined to write it up, is that Koha has a variety of more or less friendly web interfaces for setting system parmeters
22:29 bag cait: you should reply in german - tell them what the weather is like outside
22:30 cait wajasu: the marcxml in koha doens't have the items afaik - I think only the zebra index has them
22:30 gmcharlt right - item information is embeded in the MARC only upon (a) export and (b) passing the record to Zebra to be indexed
22:30 bag yes items are not in the marc or marcxml
22:30 cait bag: in times of google translate that might not help for long :)
22:30 bag :P
22:49 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 11184: correct attribute cloning for the patron editor <[…]25a0d08733fc030ca>
22:51 mtompset Hmmm... well, this kind of sucks... Ubuntu'
22:52 mtompset Ubuntu's 14.04 BETA fails to sudo apt-get install koha-common because of apache2-mpm-itk.
22:52 mtompset I wish tcohen was here. I know he was looking into that.
22:52 gmcharlt is apache2-mpm-itk not packaged for that release of Ubuntu?
22:53 mtompset There seems to be a bizarre circular dependency which prevents installation.
22:54 pastebot "mtompset" at pasted "Something like this..." (20 lines) at
22:55 mtompset Perhaps because the libapache2-mpm-itk is not the identical version?
22:55 gmcharlt not a circular dependency
22:55 gmcharlt the key thing are the first three lines
22:56 mtompset The post install script bombs, and so it can't be installed?
22:56 gmcharlt if you've got a fresh VM, I'd be curious what you get if you simply run apt-get install apache2-mpm-itk
22:57 gmcharlt right, the failure of the post-install step for libapache2-mpm-itk appears to be the immediate problem
22:58 gmcharlt mtompset:[…]-itk/+bug/1286882
22:59 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 11951: fix OPAC search suggestions template error <[…]56d7aede8aebb20d5>
23:00 mtompset bingo!
23:00 mtompset gmcharlt++ # that was it.
23:00 gmcharlt did the workaround in the bug description work for you?
23:01 eythian oh yeah, I had something similar on testing, but I haven't tried it on a fresh install to know if it's really the issue.
23:02 mtompset Yes, it did.
23:02 mtompset This was a fresh install.
23:02 mtompset I just grabbed the mini.iso today.
23:03 eythian hmm
23:03 eythian might have to do some more investigation when I get the chance.
23:24 mtompset Hmmm.... a2ensite is expecting foobar.conf our koha-create only generates foobar.
23:24 mtompset (under 14.04 beta)
23:25 eythian known bug
23:25 mtompset is apache 2.4, I believe.
23:25 mtompset Nice... they removed anonymous connections by default. :)
23:27 cait good  night all
23:27 cait left #koha
23:31 mtompset eythian: Where's the best place to tell apache to run .pl files as CGI scripts?
23:31 eythian err
23:31 eythian what are you doing?
23:32 mtompset Trying to install Koha.
23:32 mtompset But perl isn't configured to run as a CGI script by default it sees.
23:32 mtompset seems.
23:32 mtompset under 14.04
23:35 mtompset ah... sudo a2enmod cgi
23:35 mtompset wasn't enabled.
23:36 eythian oh right
23:36 eythian I think that might be a new thing
23:39 mtompset Well, there we go... just 3 bumps, but a koha under 14.04 installed.
23:40 eythian[…]xplains-how-their

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