IRC log for #koha, 2014-02-25

Time	Nick	Message
00:10		maximep left #koha
00:23		rocio left #koha
02:12	rangi	gmcharlt is on the case
02:16	dcook	?
02:16	rangi	koha-community.org
02:16	wahanui	i think koha-community.org is actually updated and right
02:23	dcook	I would write the question mark again but I'll just smile and nod :p
02:24		irma joined #koha
02:45		brendan_ joined #koha
02:57		aleisha joined #koha
03:19	dbs	@wunder p3e2c6
03:19	huginn`	dbs: The current temperature in Hwy 69 @ Richard Lake, Sudbury, Ontario is -15.0Â°C (10:10 PM EST on February 24, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: -999%. Dew Point: -60.0Â°C. Windchill: -20.0Â°C. Pressure: 30.03 in 1017 hPa (Rising).
03:20	dbs	Humidity -999% eh? Wow.
03:21	dcook	Sudbury, eh?
03:21	rangi	@wunder nzwn
03:22	huginn`	rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 18.0Â°C (4:00 PM NZDT on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 64%. Dew Point: 11.0Â°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady).
03:22	dcook	I probably knew that...that's neat
03:22	dcook	@wunder sydney, australia
03:22	huginn`	dcook: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 28.0Â°C (2:00 PM EST on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 42%. Dew Point: 14.0Â°C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Steady).
03:22	dcook	Sounds about right..
03:22	dcook	dbs: -15 wouldn't be so bad about now..
03:23	* dbs	occasionally wonders why he is in Sudbury, when he has been to Sydney and Brisbane... but he does love winter sports
03:24	dbs	dcook: yes, I'll take cold over heat :)
03:24	dcook	Some nice bush around Sudbury, iirc. Good times snow shoeing and sledding.
03:25	dcook	Well, that was more so over by North Bay, but close enough
03:25	dbs	dcook: I'm not into the motorized side of things, but there's great mountain biking trails around here which make me very happy
03:25	dbs	close enough indeed :)
03:26	dcook	Once upon a time, I thought about looking for library work around Sudbury. Glad to know there was good company!
03:29	dbs	There are those who will argue about how "good" my company is :)
03:31	dcook	Oh, I'm a total bastard, so no worries there :p
03:32	rangi	i call bs
03:34	dcook	Sometimes I forget that I'm remarkably open on Facebook
03:34	* dcook	tries to hide all the cute cat photos
03:34	rangi	heh
03:34		mtompset_away joined #koha
03:35	mtompset	Greetings, #koha.
03:37	rangi	aleisha++ # coming in to catalyst after school to sign off patches (just signed one off now)
03:37	aleisha	:)
03:38	dcook	aleisha++
03:39	rangi	@karma aleisha
03:39	huginn`	rangi: Karma for "aleisha" has been increased 2 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 2.
03:43	dcook	I should decrease my karma sometime or really start testing more...
03:57		brendan_ joined #koha
03:57	ibeardslee	excellent
03:58	ibeardslee	not dcook decreasing his kamra, aleisha coming in to Catalyst
03:58	dcook	hehe
03:58	dcook	I wasn't going to jump to any conclusions :p
04:11	mtompset	But jumping to conclusions is crazy fun, dcook. :P
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05:26		cait joined #koha
05:26	mtompset	dcook: signed off 11575 for you. :)
05:27	mtompset	Greetings, cait.
05:27	cait	morning
05:29	mtompset	I tried duplicating your <TEST> problem, cait, and couldn't. Sorry.
05:29	cait	?
05:29	cait	bug 11575
05:29	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11575 normal, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Signed Off , OPACBaseURL sometimes set by ENV variable and not system preference
05:29	* mtompset	tries to remember the bug cait posted.
05:30	mtompset	11741
05:30	cait	bug 11741
05:30	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11741 normal, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Needs Signoff , < > not displaying correctly in XSLT result list
05:30	cait	did you use the -x switch for indexing?
05:30	mtompset	Yes.
05:30	mtompset	Though, I suspect it might be a data entry thing.
05:31	cait	i don't think so
05:31	mtompset	I entered the record under MASTER.
05:31	cait	i did as well
05:31	cait	tcohen could reproduce
05:31	mtompset	and then switching to 3.6, 3.8, 3.10, 3.12, and 3.14 I couldnt get it to display weird.
05:31	mtompset	There must be other system preferences to set.
05:34	cait	you checked the results list?
05:34	mtompset	Hmmm... I'll try again... I only had it going straight to detail, because I only have one seuss record. :)
05:35	cait	detail is fine, it's only the result list
05:35	cait	because both use data from diffrent places
05:35	cait	but my patch probably won't make it in I think - it's patching it up, but not really fixing it
05:36	cait	not fixing the problem at its source
05:36	cait	i jsut got up... i might not make sense
05:37	mtompset	cait: If the other fix line made it into master, then I think your two lines should.
05:37	cait	well if it's signed off we can find out ;)
05:37	mtompset	I'm trying to replicate the problem.
05:37	mtompset	Since you said it was results. I just tweaked an entry.
05:37	mtompset	And am reindexing.
05:41	mtompset	okay... master ok... changing to 3.12.x
05:42	cait	it's in master too, really
05:42	cait	i filed the bug against master
05:42	mtompset	Nope... works fine.
05:42	cait	how did you reindex?
05:43	mtompset	.../rebuild_zebra.pl -b -a -r -x -v
05:43	cait	and you are looking at the result list?
05:43	mtompset	I typed fancy into the search text box and clicked go.
05:43	mtompset	and it's the first entry.
05:44	cait	hmm interesting
05:44	wahanui	interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
05:44	mtompset	Is this Ubuntu or Debian?
05:44	cait	tested on both
05:44	cait	debian at work ubuntu at home
05:44	mtompset	same problem on both?
05:44	cait	yep
05:45	cait	and tcohen could reproduce as well
05:45	mtompset	which zebra version are you using?
05:45	cait	i should ask him how far he got digging
05:46	cait	what is packaged i would say
05:46	cait	2.0.44
05:47	* mtompset	shrugs.
05:47	mtompset	Well, I can't exactly sign something off based on my eyeball of it.
05:48	cait	it's ok
05:48	cait	just leave it
05:48	mtompset	Just annoying, because it is a nice tiny patch which should be easy to sign off.
05:48	cait	i am too tired to figure out what hte difference is really
05:48	cait	i need at least another hour before my brain wakes up
05:49	dcook	Thanks, mtompset :)
05:49	* dcook	was going to test something but then got distracted by local stuff..
05:55	cait	thx for testing mtompset :)
05:55	mtompset	I tried.
05:56	mtompset	I've fallen a bit behind having been sick, and losing funding. :(
05:56	cait	could you try a las tthing? leaving out the -a of the indexing command, just doing bibliographic?
06:00	mtompset	Okay... leaving out -a.
06:01	mtompset	how do I generate invoices?
06:01	cait	you receive something in acq
06:01	cait	the invoice will be generated then
06:03	mtompset	ah... there.
06:04	mtompset	reindexing stilll.... whistles
06:05	mtompset	Nope... works fine.
06:05	cait	ok
06:05	cait	thx
06:09	mtompset	the whole invoicing thing is a weird mess.
06:11	cait	it's acq.
06:21	mtompset	Well, okay... Acquisitions is a whole mess.
06:21	mtompset	I know nothing of the process, and it was weird to see the things I had to click to get things to do what I needed for testing.
06:22	mtompset	This can't possibly reflect the way people think about the process in reality.
06:29	dcook	I don't suppose anyone has noticed this error: "Barcode generation failed for item %s with this error: %s" when trying to print barcode labels?
06:30	dcook	mtompset: Acquisitions is always horrifying in libraries.
06:30	* dcook	has worked in libraries for 7-8 years and has found this to always be true.
06:40	mtompset	is report 21 one of the default sample reports?
06:40	dcook	\o/
06:41	* dcook	dances around a bit
06:41	dcook	Turns out that Code39 is case sensitive
06:41	dcook	http://search.cpan.org/~larslu[…]e-0.05/Barcode.pm
06:41	* dcook	was wondering why a "b" was causing an invalid character exception...
06:42	* magnuse	waves
06:42		laurence joined #koha
06:44	dcook	yo, magnuse
06:44	dcook	salut laurence
06:44	laurence	salut dcook
06:46	cait	mtompset: there are no default sample reports
06:46	mtompset	Ah. Thanks, cait.
06:48	mtompset	There... now, three more sign offs later, and I'll be back to where I'm happy. :)
06:50	mtompset	magnuse: You snuck in! Greetings.
06:50	mtompset	Greetings, laurence.
06:51	laurence	hi mtompset
06:52	mtompset	Hmmm... Julian Maurice is Biblibre too, right?
06:52	cait	yep
06:53	dcook	BibLibre is everywhere ;)
06:53	mtompset	I was wondering if someone from Biblibre could take a look at my revision patch on bug 6874. It's the only thing needing sign off on this bug that seemed to start from Biblibre.
06:53	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , File upload in MARC
06:54	mtompset	Because that would be a nice feature to get into 3.16
06:59	mtompset	Anyways... I best take off. I need to get rest.
06:59	mtompset	Have a great day, cait dcook magnuse laurence #koha.
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07:31	cait	running out of time :(
07:31	cait	bye all
07:32		wajasu joined #koha
07:33		reiveune joined #koha
07:33	reiveune	hello
07:33	wahanui	hola, reiveune
07:58		mayank joined #koha
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07:59	Joubu	salut
07:59	wahanui	bidet, Joubu
08:02	* magnuse	waves again
08:02	magnuse	@wunder boo
08:02	huginn`	magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 5.0Â°C (8:50 AM CET on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Light Rain Showers. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 4.0Â°C. Windchill: -1.0Â°C. Pressure: 29.56 in 1001 hPa (Rising).
08:02	magnuse	@wunder marseille
08:02	huginn`	magnuse: The current temperature in Realtor, CABRIES, France is 6.8Â°C (9:02 AM CET on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: 2.0Â°C. Windchill: 5.0Â°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady).
08:03	matts	hi !
08:07		gaetan_B joined #koha
08:08	gaetan_B	hello
08:12	magnuse	bonjour!
08:13	magnuse	dev meeting in 6
08:13	magnuse	hours
08:13	magnuse	46
08:13	magnuse	minutes
08:13	magnuse	12
08:13	magnuse	seconds
08:14	magnuse	oops
08:22		paul_p joined #koha
08:24	magnuse	kia ora paul_p
08:26	paul_p	'morning magnuse
08:26		sophie_m joined #koha
08:49	Joubu	Marcel around?
08:59		cait joined #koha
08:59	huginn`	GERMS!!!!
08:59	wahanui	germs is probably http://i.imgur.com/5UfhT.jpg
08:59	cait	good morning #koha and wahanui
09:03	ashimema	mornin' cait et al'
09:05	ashimema	worth putting the dev meeting in the motd?
09:06	ashimema	#meetings
09:07	cait	hm thnk it would be a good idea but not sure how to
09:15	gaetan_B	which is the webservice koha actually uses to fetch covers from amazon ?
09:15	gaetan_B	is it this one :
09:15	gaetan_B	https://affiliate-program.amaz[…]/detail/main.html ?
09:18	clrh	hello
09:18	wahanui	hello, clrh
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09:35	magnuse	gaetan_B: i think koha just constructs URLs for the images, there is no webservice as such
09:37	magnuse	gaetan_B: <img src="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/[% itemsloo.normalized_isbn %].01.TZZZZZZZ.jpg" alt="" class="thumbnail" />
09:37	magnuse	that sort of thing
09:54	gaetan_B	magnuse: hmm so we're not using a webservice or an api ?
09:54	gaetan_B	does that mean we are not sticking to any TOS ?
09:56		clrh joined #koha
10:17	magnuse	gaetan_B: i think it's sort of a grey area...
10:20	magnuse	there is some discussion about it on bugzilla, but i'm not sure exactly where...
10:25	barton	morning all
10:26		petter joined #koha
10:26	petter	Hi Koha!
10:27	magnuse	hiya petter!
10:27	magnuse	and hiya barton
10:40	magnuse	petter++ for the RFID RFC
10:41	petter	thanks, I'm not sure there are any other libraries with needs like us..
10:41	petter	But hopefully if we get some feedback we can improve the solution
10:50		tcohen joined #koha
11:02	cait	hi petter :)
11:02	cait	when do you arrive on Sunday?
11:06	cait	petter: I am trying to organize dinner fÃ¼r the early arriving
11:06	* ashimema	now wishes he was arriving sunday too
11:07	cait	just don't miss monday :)
11:09	ashimema	I should be turning up before lunch on monday
11:10	magnuse	just don't miss lunch ;-)
11:10	cait	yep don't miss lunch
11:10	cait	lebanese... i think
11:13	sophie_m	hello #koha
11:16	sophie_m	Are some of people coming to the hackfest in Marseille interested by a walk in "calanques" on Sunday (http://www.marvellous-provence[…]uth-of-marseille)
11:18	cait	sophie_m: might be arriving too late for that :( 16:00
11:18	cait	my coworker tells me every year to go there, but i never managed
11:21	sophie_m	cait, paul_p is organising a diner where we can have a brief point of view. it's not the same as walking in it, but it could give you the taste for next time :-)
11:21	cait	:) do you know when he plans to do it?
11:21	paul_p	cait probably tuesday
11:22	cait	ah hi paul_p
11:22	paul_p	will send a mail soon about that
11:23	cait	paul_p: :)
11:24	cait	i think i might send a mail to the early arriving proposinga meeting point near the harbour
11:24	cait	might be difficult to reach everyonee otherwise - but probably next week - ideas welcome :)
11:27	cait	sophie_m: when where you thinking for the walk?
11:30	ashimema	anyone know where the stuff that i a dev install ends up in kohaclone/installer/ goes in a packages install..
11:30	ashimema	I was hoping to grab some of the default sql to post fill frameworks on my system.
11:31	sophie_m	cait: if possible in the morning. But I can adapt
11:32	cait	ashimema: sorry, not sure about the paths there
11:32	ashimema	hmm
11:32	cait	sophie_m: my train is already booked, i won't be available before 5pm i think, so I will aim fo rmeeting people for dinner
11:33	sophie_m	it's a good plan too :-)
11:33	cait	:)
11:33	magnuse	ashimema: try /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/installer/
11:34	magnuse	(or e.g. "locate kohastructure.sql")
11:34	ashimema	aha, magnuse your awsome.
11:34	ashimema	of course.. why didn't I tihnk of 'locate'
11:34	magnuse	:-)
11:34	ashimema	brain is not good today.
11:34	* magnuse	rewards himself with lunch
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12:21	* barton	thinks that cait should alias 'locate' to 'locait'.
12:21	cait	lol
12:23	ashimema	:)
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12:36	tcohen	morning #koha
12:36	tcohen	hi cait
12:44		meliss joined #koha
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12:53	tcohen	anyone with experience maintaining a CPAN module?
12:53	tcohen	fredericd?
12:53	wahanui	fredericd is probably translation manager for 3.8
13:04	cait	hi tcohen :)
13:06	tcohen	hi cait
13:07	tcohen	i can reproduce your problem (< >)
13:07	tcohen	and your patch does the job
13:07	tcohen	a proper solution would break people's Koha use
13:07	tcohen	do u want me to sign it?
13:08	cait	tcohen: i would be happy if you did
13:08		nlegrand joined #koha
13:08	nlegrand	hey
13:09	cait	and if you could add some notes why it would break other people't things
13:09	cait	i think you know more about the problem right now than i do
13:09	tcohen	we are doing ad-hoc fixes anyway
13:09	tcohen	your patch doesn't hurt
13:10	cait	yeah, we already do some ampersand magic
13:22		oleonard joined #koha
13:23	oleonard	Hi #koha
13:26		NateC joined #koha
13:27	magnuse	kia ora oleonard NateC
13:36	cait	tcohen: grs1! the missing piece!
13:36	cait	i really was too tired this morning it seems :)
13:41		fridolin joined #koha
13:41	fridolin	hie all
13:42	tcohen	hi fridolin
13:42	fridolin	i'm releasing today 3.14.04
13:43	tcohen	fridolin++
13:43	cait	:)
13:45	ashimema	fridolin++
13:45	ashimema	damn.. that means my list of tasks just grew ;)
13:45	tcohen	heh
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13:52	magnuse	fridolin++
13:52	magnuse	dev meeting in 1 hour 7 minutes!
13:53	tcohen	bug 11096
13:53	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11096 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Signed Off , Koha cannot retrieve big records from Zebra
13:53	* magnuse	will miss the first one, maybe the second one too
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14:03	francharb	good morning #koha
14:04	magnuse	hiya francharb and talljoy
14:04	talljoy	hiya magnuse!
14:04	francharb	o/ magnuse
14:04	druthb	o/
14:04	talljoy	hi druthb!
14:05		tcohen joined #koha
14:05	cait	magnuse: ooh :(
14:15	rhcl	@wunder 64507
14:15	huginn`	rhcl: The current temperature in Wyatt Park, St Joseph, Missouri is -6.3Â°C (8:15 AM CST on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 78%. Dew Point: -10.0Â°C. Windchill: -6.0Â°C. Pressure: 30.38 in 1029 hPa (Rising).
14:15	rhcl	-63Â°C It's really cold out there. And it's snowing.
14:16	rhcl	@wunder boo
14:16	huginn`	rhcl: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 6.0Â°C (2:50 PM CET on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 2.0Â°C. Windchill: 2.0Â°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Rising).
14:16	rhcl	Ah! Tropics in Norway.
14:16	rhcl	@wunder konstanz
14:16	huginn`	rhcl: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 8.0Â°C (3:00 PM CET on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 48%. Dew Point: 1.0Â°C. Pressure: 29.99 in 1015 hPa (Falling).
14:16	oleonard	@wunder 45701
14:16	huginn`	oleonard: The current temperature in OHDOT 31-Athens County Garage, Athens, Ohio is -4.4Â°C (8:30 AM EST on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: -6.0Â°C. Windchill: -4.0Â°C. Pressure: 30.17 in 1022 hPa (Falling).
14:17	rhcl	@wunder houston, tx
14:17	huginn`	rhcl: The current temperature in SE-Svc-Cntr, Houston, Texas is 18.1Â°C (8:17 AM CST on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 99%. Dew Point: 18.0Â°C. Pressure: 30.05 in 1018 hPa (Steady). Dense fog advisory in effect until 10 am CST this morning...
14:18	rhcl	k-c.org is UP
14:19	tcohen	yay! https://metacpan.org/pod/Memoize::Memcached
14:19	magnuse	yeah, it sure is warm up here
14:19	rhcl	:)
14:20	magnuse	we had snow on saturday and sunday, but now it's all gone
14:20	magnuse	weekend snow - i can live with that :-)
14:21	ashimema	tcohen++
14:22	ashimema	didn't realise you maintained memoize?
14:22	tcohen	i've just started heh
14:22	tcohen	the owner gave me the rights to do it
14:22	tcohen	so i've just patched an old deprecation bug it had
14:25	jenkins_koha	Starting build #178 for job Koha_3.12.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
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14:27	Joubu	y
14:28	cait	hi Joubu :)
14:28		brendan_ joined #koha
14:28	tcohen	hi Joubu
14:29		mayank1 joined #koha
14:29	Joubu	I tested my 'y' key, it works great
14:29	tcohen	i can confirm that Joubu
14:29	oleonard	:)
14:30	Joubu	thanks tcohen!
14:30	Joubu	;)
14:30	ashimema	nice work! tcohen++ again
14:32	oleonard	Shouldn't I be able to view the course reserves page even if I don't have permission to edit?
14:34	wajasu	i think there is a syspref to turn it on.
14:36	cait	y key passed QA :)
14:36	cait	oleonard: if there is a sep permission, I'd think so
14:37	tcohen	Joubu: hopefully gmcharlt will push it and we'll cherry-pick it for the stable keyboards
14:37	wajasu	UseCourseReserves in circ preferences
14:37		ColinC joined #koha
14:37	oleonard	wajasu: Right. If UseCourseReserves is enabled I would think one would be able to access course reserves even without permission to edit/delete/manage
14:38	magnuse	tcohen++
14:38	gmcharlt	@quote random
14:38	huginn`	gmcharlt: Quote #43: "< Ropuch> Uh - beware of tea: it can burn your throat" (added by chris at 08:35 AM, October 30, 2009)
14:43		marcelr joined #koha
14:44	marcelr	hi #koha
14:44	tcohen	gmcharlt: is cpan.org slow to update from what is uploaded to pause?
14:44	Joubu	oleonard: did you understand my comment on 11718? I'm not sure it is understandable...
14:45	gmcharlt	tcohen: I've seen it take anywhere between 1 and 4 hours
14:45	gmcharlt	meeting in 15 minutes
14:45	tcohen	oh, thanks gmcharlt. I should be patient then
14:45	tcohen	:-D
14:45	oleonard	Yes Joubu
14:46	Joubu	oleonard: cool :)
14:46	wajasu	oleonard: so you don't have read access as a non superlibrarian? i have access in the OPAC to view as a Patron(PT) without the special add/edit/delete perms
14:46	cait	wajasu: I think oleonad meant the staff side
14:46	oleonard	wajasu: I'm only talking about the staff client
14:47		peggy joined #koha
14:51	Joubu	marcelr++ for the qa feedback on bug 9016!
14:51	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9016 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Multi transport types for notices
14:51	oleonard	Joubu: Note that I didn't remove sorting from any columns in my patch for Bug 11718, I only added sorting on creation date
14:51	marcelr	hi Joubu: will return to that later on.. :)
14:51	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11718 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Use new DataTables include in reports templates
14:52	wajasu	did anyone bake cookies for the meeting?
14:53	* oleonard	has Girl Scout cookies
14:53	cait	oleonard: with lemon?
14:53	cait	druthb has some with lemon....
14:53	oleonard	I don't think I have any of those
14:53	cait	what do you have?
14:54	gmcharlt	Joubu: oleonard: marcelr: please note the follow-up on bug 10865
14:54	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10865 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, In Discussion , Don't show list permissions when adding public lists/sharing lists is not allowed
14:55	gmcharlt	and, apparently, 18065 ;)
14:55	marcelr	hi gmcharlt: will have a look soon
14:55	jenkins_koha	Project Koha_3.12.x build #178: SUCCESS in 33 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/Koha_3.12.x/178/
14:55	jenkins_koha	* Tomas Cohen Arazi: Update release notes for 3.12.11 release
14:55	jenkins_koha	* Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel: Translation updates for 3.12.11 release
14:55	jenkins_koha	* Tomas Cohen Arazi: Increment version for 3.12.11 release
14:55	marcelr	bug 18065 ? too high..
14:55	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=18065 was not found.
14:56	gmcharlt	marcelr: yeah, I just noticed a typo in my follow-up patch to 10865, hence the joke about 18065
14:56	oleonard	cait: Mint, peanut butter, and coconut cookies
14:56	marcelr	gmcharlt: bug 10363 likes your comments too
14:56	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10363 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Failed QA , There is no package for authorised values.
14:56	cait	mmmh coconut
14:57	cait	i think we are ready for the meeting
14:57	marcelr	koffie
14:57	ashimema	you've made me hungry now cait.
14:57	cait	:P
14:57	marcelr	=coffee
14:57	* cait	blames oleonard
14:57	marcelr	good start
14:58	gmcharlt	ok, may as well begin
14:59	gmcharlt	#startmeeting Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC
14:59	huginn`	Meeting started Tue Feb 25 14:59:17 2014 UTC. The chair is gmcharlt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:59	huginn`	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:59		Topic for #koha is now (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC)
14:59	huginn`	The meeting name has been set to 'koha_dev_meeting__25_february_2014_15_00_utc'
14:59	gmcharlt	#info Agenda http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]February_25,_2014
14:59	gmcharlt	#topic Introductions
14:59	wahanui	#info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
14:59		Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC)
14:59	oleonard	#info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries
14:59	marcelr	#info Marcel de Rooy, Netherlands
14:59	gmcharlt	#info gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, 3.16 RM, Equinox, USA
15:00	paul_p	#info Paul Poulain, BibLibre
15:00	ashimema	#info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe
15:00	Joubu	#info Jonathan Druart, BibLibre, France
15:00	ColinC	#info Colin Campbell PTFS-Europe
15:00	cait	#info Katrin Fischer, BSZ
15:00	rhcl	#info rhcl = Greg Lawson, Rolling Hills Consolidated Library -ro
15:00	fredericd	#info FrÃ©dÃ©ric Demians, Tamil
15:01	thd	#info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
15:01	jajm	#info Julian Maurice, BibLibre, France
15:02	matts	#info Matthias Meusburger, Biblibre, France
15:02	slef	#info MJ Ray, software.coop, England
15:03	gmcharlt	OK, folks can continue to chime in as they arrive
15:03	gmcharlt	first, some annouceents
15:03	gmcharlt	#topic Announcements
15:03		Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC)
15:04	gmcharlt	#info gmcharlt will be clearing the passed QA queue prior to the beginning of the hackfest in Marseille
15:04	cait	gmcharlt++ :)
15:04		maximep joined #koha
15:04	gmcharlt	that means that I'm committing to push (or if need be in certain cases, reject) everything targetted for master by then
15:04	ashimema	gmcharlt++
15:04	gmcharlt	to give a clear slate
15:05	paul_p	gmcharlt++
15:05	slef	#info the hackfest in Marseille is 10-14 March
15:05	gmcharlt	after discussing this with cait, I'd like to request that for the next week, that QA team members focus on (1) needs-signoff and (2) kitten-rescue
15:05	paul_p	gmcharlt what to you mean by "targetted for master" ?
15:05	tcohen	#info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Universidad Nacional de Cordoba
15:05	gmcharlt	paul_p: there are one or two in passed-QA that are targetted for maintenance branches
15:06	marcelr	no further new qa's you mean?
15:06	gmcharlt	a 3.8.x one, in fact, although I think khall tried applying it but ran into trouble with it
15:06	gmcharlt	not sure of the details
15:06	gmcharlt	marcelr: yes - let's say end of day tomorrow as a cutoff for new passed QA if you're in the middle of something?
15:06	cait	gmcharlt: I think continuing on things you are in the midst of should be ok, but not starting on new patches?
15:06	huginn`	New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 11803: use $dbh consistently in _koha_modify_item <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]10f0be56b8805faeb>
15:07	gmcharlt	are there any other announcements folks wish to make at this time?
15:07	cait	i thik we can add another #agreed for the cutoff :)
15:07	cait	or info
15:07	gmcharlt	cait: go for it
15:08	cait	#info end of tomorrow will be cutoff for new passed QA until the hackfest in Marseille, QA team to focus on sign offs and kitten rescue
15:08	paul_p	gmcharlt = do you think you'll have time to deal with the 84 waiting patches before the hackfest ?
15:08	gmcharlt	paul_p: it's going to be my sole focus for Koha work
15:08	jcamins	#info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services
15:08	paul_p	gmcharlt = would it be wise to start by new feature/enh ? so hackfest participant can concentrate on testing master ?
15:08	gmcharlt	(unless security issues intervene)
15:09	gmcharlt	paul_p: I'm going to be doing the small fry first, then go to enh
15:09	gmcharlt	enh/new
15:10	gmcharlt	i.e., oleonard's DataTables stuff won't take much time in any event
15:10	gmcharlt	btw
15:10	jenkins_koha	Starting build #362 for job master_maria (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:10	gmcharlt	oleonard++ # cleanup wizard
15:10	cait	oleonard++
15:10	gmcharlt	the next thing I'm going to do is to toss out some general questions
15:10	cait	#thx for adding consistency to everything
15:10	gmcharlt	they do not require an immediate response
15:11	gmcharlt	#topic RM questions
15:11		Topic for #koha is now RM questions (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC)
15:11	gmcharlt	#info What is the state of UNIMARC/DOM Zebra indexing? Are UNIMARC users ready to adopt it?
15:11	gmcharlt	#info How many folks are using QueryParser in production?
15:12	gmcharlt	#info Is deprecating GRS-1 a viable option for 3.16?
15:12	paul_p	gmcharlt = I'll add the unimarc topic for the hackfest. We will have many french unimarc librarians at hand to test ;-)
15:12	gmcharlt	paul_p++
15:12	marcelr	anyone using SRU with DOM indexing ?
15:12	cait	paul_p: my impression was there are still some bugs to shake out, but might not be hard to fix
15:12	gmcharlt	#agreed paul_p will add discussion/testing of UNIMARC Zebra-DOM to Marseille hackfest
15:12	ashimema	gmcharlt, I'd love to see GRS-1 go the way of the dodo.
15:13	jenkins_koha	Starting build #1644 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:13	gmcharlt	#info anyone using SRU with DOM indexing ?
15:13	ashimema	marcelr, we have a few customers using SRU with DOM.. i believe
15:13	gmcharlt	marcelr: are you seeing any issues with it?
15:13	tcohen	SRU+DOM+UNIMARC?
15:13	marcelr	i tried some time ago and it did not work at that time (out of the box or so)
15:13	ashimema	not unimark from us.
15:14	ashimema	I believe I had to modify at least one config file to get it outputting a sensible format.. it was outputting plain indexes to start with.
15:14	gmcharlt	#info Is anybody actively testing or developing on Debian Jessie at the moment?
15:14	cait	marcelr: I think there might have been a fix for that, worth trying again maybe
15:14	ashimema	i can't remember the details.. it was a while ago and hasn't come up again since
15:14		Franziska joined #koha
15:14	paul_p	gmcharlt = added to workshop list : "DOM indexing in UNIMARC We must test DOM indexing in UNIMARC to see if GRS-1 can be deprecated. Some patches pushed"
15:14	gmcharlt	paul_p++
15:14	wajasu	should ICU be the default oor such, if or when GRS1 goes away? or is there search value in CHR?
15:15	cait	I'd be for ICU by default
15:15	cait	a lot of libraries stumble on that
15:15	paul_p	ICU by default++
15:15	ashimema	icu for default... ++
15:15	ColinC	One issue with Jessie may be that Queryparser's tests fail on newer perls
15:15	tcohen	+1
15:15	gmcharlt	is there a singular ICU config that folks like?
15:15	cait	OpacSuppression + Queryparser don't work, that's kind of a blocker for the library that we tested it with
15:15	gmcharlt	or shoudl we consider going a bit further to generate language-of-record specific configs that folks can use sysprefs to select?
15:16	paul_p	Franziska = hello. Just seen your email now. happy to see that you could fix the problem to join us
15:16	gmcharlt	ColinC: indeed - it's heavily depending on hash sort order, for some reason
15:16		Franziska joined #koha
15:17	cait	paul_p: maybe testing QueryParser could also be a topic for the hackfest?
15:17	gmcharlt	also - folks, please feel free to chime in on proposing these sorts of architectural/deprecation/compatbility questions now
15:18	ashimema	testing QueryParser has been on my todo list for a while now, I'de be happy chipping in testing at hackfest should it become a topic
15:18	Franziska	Hello from Koha Gruppo Italiano - Rome
15:18	cait	the librarian testing force is strong at the hackfest usually
15:18	cait	they have done some great testing int he past, also with plack
15:18	tcohen	gmcharlt: do u think 11096 could be ready for 3.16?
15:18	marcelr	bug 11096
15:18	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11096 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Signed Off , Koha cannot retrieve big records from Zebra
15:19	gmcharlt	#info is there a reasonable Plack configuration that we could include in 3.16, and encourage as a first-class install option?
15:19	gmcharlt	tcohen: in a word, yes
15:19	cait	gmcharlt: i think most use the out of the box icu now, but there is a wiki page on how to tweak it for arabic
15:20	cait	gmcharlt: we had added some additional rules for umlaut indexing in the past, not sure how flexible configuration can be made here
15:20	jcamins	I use the out-of-the-box configuration.
15:20	jcamins	(for ICU, FWIW)
15:20	gmcharlt	cait: OK, I"m going to tweet a request for folks to add their custom ICU configs to the wiki page
15:20	ashimema	we use out of the box icu configs in lots of places.
15:21	ColinC	ICU out of the box handles arabic cyrillic and chinese fairly well
15:21	cait	gmcharlt: can we add icu by default as a question? or did i miss it?
15:21	ashimema	gmcharlt.. I spent a fair bit of time testing the Plack during install bug on bugzilla.. It had a few issues.
15:21	clrh	#info Claire Hernandez, BibLibre, France (late sorry)
15:22	paul_p	gmcharlt = we have a working plack configuration at SAN-OP
15:22	gmcharlt	ashimema: did you write up the issues?
15:22	jcamins	I use ICU mostly for Russian, Arabic, and Hebrew.
15:22	gmcharlt	paul_p: did you write up the config anywhere?
15:22	cait	we use it with hebrew, out of the box icu, no complaints so far
15:23	paul_p	for both OPAC & staff. We faced one problem with it though = we restarted plack every night, and sometimes, it stopped badly, and did not restart
15:23	gmcharlt	all: did you write up the FOO anywhere? ;)
15:23	ashimema	bug 9316
15:23	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9316 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Add Nginx install options with plack
15:23	paul_p	gmcharlt = not sure, will check & wiki-fy it
15:23	gmcharlt	ashimema: thanks
15:24	paul_p	both plack config & nightly crontab script
15:24	ashimema	I need to look into it again.. not checked for a while.. i'll try to take a look between this meet and the next ;)
15:24	cait	#info Can we make ICU indexing default for new installations?
15:24	ashimema	nothing major.. just minor gripes really.
15:24	cait	so it doesn't get lost :)
15:24	ashimema	from memory
15:25	gmcharlt	OK, I'm going to try to keep the meeting to an hour, so I'm going to move on
15:25	gmcharlt	#topic ElasticSearch
15:25		Topic for #koha is now ElasticSearch (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC)
15:25	gmcharlt	it looks like we have two different ElasticSearch projects going on
15:25	gmcharlt	and ... for obvious reasons it would be great if the efforts were coordinated
15:25	paul_p	Franziska = look, it's for you now !!!
15:26	gmcharlt	I imagine the NZers will be participating in the second version of this meeting today, of coruse
15:26	paul_p	gmcharlt = what do you mean by "2 projects going on" ?
15:26	Franziska	Great! Stefano will present the project in Marseille. Please join us on March 11th
15:27	ashimema	Agreed, we need some collaboration going on this.
15:27	paul_p	because what italians announced is not -yet- a project with code. It's a project to see how things could/should be done, and -try to- fund it
15:27	Franziska	Additional information will be available on http://www.kohagruppoitaliano.moonfruit.com/ shortly
15:27	paul_p	so it's not too late to coordinate. It's the perfect timing I think.
15:27	ashimema	Franziska, are you in touch with Chris et al?
15:28	paul_p	gmcharlt = the "other" ES project is made by chris & sponsored by bywater, isn't it ?
15:28	gmcharlt	yes
15:28	Franziska	No not yet, but we really hope to work with him on this project
15:28	gmcharlt	and since it has code developing, it's going to set the tone
15:28	gmcharlt	so Franziska, I strongly encourage you to get in touch with Chris ASAP
15:29	paul_p	gmcharlt = so I hope things will be coordinated, because the "italian" project have American University in Rome, that is a ByWater customer !
15:29	Franziska	Our goal is to help the community to make it happen
15:29	cait	Franziska: being in NZ they won't make it to the hackfest in Marseille
15:30	gmcharlt	they also tend to use IRC a lot; I recommend that you hang out in #koha
15:30	Franziska	we are not assisted by Bywater...Stefano is in charge of our catalog
15:30	cait	I think it would be great to see this worked out - funding and development :)
15:30	Franziska	we are independent. Bywater is in charge of the American Academy's catalog.
15:30	gmcharlt	right
15:31	paul_p	Franziska oups, sorry, failed once again between AAR and AUR ...
15:31	paul_p	I'll be successful one day... (maybe not this year :D :D )
15:31	gmcharlt	paul_p: then we'll throw more acronyms at you
15:31	gmcharlt	just to keep you on your toes ;)
15:31	Franziska	For us it is a important to work out the way between funding and development
15:32	paul_p	ABR ? ACR ? ADR ? AER ?
15:32	cait	rangi left a note on the agenda - saying they will try to have something to play with for the hackfest
15:32	gmcharlt	that should help
15:32	cait	maybe this can help see where things are going and help getting started on coordination
15:32	Franziska	what we essentially do is to promote Koha in Italy
15:33	paul_p	what annoys me is that it seems that the work we made on solr won't be re-used at all. And I think/feel it's a shame.
15:33	paul_p	(energy lost)
15:33	paul_p	(not because we wrote it)
15:33	Franziska	Sorry, my mistake - the promotion goes over the world
15:33	marcelr	paul_p couldn't that be rescued somehow?
15:33	clrh	marcelr: things are pushed in master
15:34	clrh	marcelr: there is a base to wrote more things on many search engin as you want...
15:34	ashimema	Franziska... do you guys have plans for A) Where the money should be coming from and B) What developers your hoping to employ to do the work. I'm just thinking it should probably go to one of the bigger players already working in searhc for koha, as aposed to somone new implimenting in yet another way..
15:34	ashimema	basically what paul_p just said ;)
15:35	Franziska	The community has to choose amoung Solr and ElasticSearch
15:35	paul_p	marcelr = I feel it could, I sent an email to rangi about that, and got no feedback.
15:35	marcelr	unfortunate
15:36	paul_p	Franziska = the best would be to have an search layer independant from any search engine. So we can plug ES, Solr, Zebra, whatever
15:36	gmcharlt	I think it's fair to say that there's been an long-running technical disagreement about that. There's no need to rehash it now, but I expect that once the ES stuff for testing at Hackfest is available, it may clarify things
15:36	cait	also people from ByWater will be there
15:37	cait	who have been working with Catalyst IT to make it happen
15:37	paul_p	gmcharlt which one ? not clear to me (except the fact that we started to REPLACE zebra by solr, and the community wanted to have a CHOICE)
15:37	Franziska	Koha Gruppo Italiano has no conflict with choice
15:38	paul_p	gmcharlt and maybe another one with Moose, but not worth forgetting everything we made I think
15:38	thd	paul_p: Could some of BibLibre work on the user interface for user configuratâ€ion of indexing not be taken from the Solr/Lucene work and added to Elastic Search.
15:38	thd	?
15:39	paul_p	thd = I really don't know. Everything is in master, we're open to questions.
15:39	clrh	thd: erf do not understand the question ><
15:39	gmcharlt	I actually think that's going to be a big question for 3.16 or possibily 3.18 -- how much of the Koha::SearchEngine stuff will remain
15:39	Joubu	thd: the Solr config page (the one in master) can be used for ES too.
15:40	gmcharlt	because, ATM, it's code that isn't actively used
15:40	paul_p	right.
15:40	paul_p	I don' tthink it's a reachable goal for 3.16
15:40	paul_p	for 3.18, it should be a goal.
15:41	cait	maybe we could do experimental
15:41	gmcharlt	I'm actually hoping that the question gets settled by 3.16 - at least in terms of our having a pretty good idea about what parts will be staying in for the long run
15:41	cait	if it doesn't break anything, nto sure how far they are
15:41	thd	The issue would be for a librarian interface to control how the indexing functions.
15:41	cait	oh, i misunderstood... i thought elastic search going in
15:41	cait	not reading fast enough
15:41	gmcharlt	considering that two piece of completely dead code contributed to the security release recently -- I'm feeling a bit less lenient about keeping in code that isn't used
15:42	gmcharlt	cait: we'll see about when ES goes in - it's a bit too early to know for sure
15:42	gmcharlt	however - I think we've exhausted this topic for now until the later meeting
15:42	gmcharlt	so going to move on
15:42	slef	I've some of the same concerns about ES as Solr. It's another Java app so another complication for Koha servers.
15:43	gmcharlt	yeah, I think there will be a place for fast, self-contained search engines for a while yet
15:43	gmcharlt	#topic DBIx::Class
15:43		Topic for #koha is now DBIx::Class (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC)
15:44	gmcharlt	so I think one of the issues here is this
15:44	gmcharlt	how much abstraction to use
15:44	wajasu	can we get the entire DB API coded in a test for DBIx and possibly reconcile historical names (borrower vs member, issue vs ...) Then code won't bubble that up into the UI with varying concepts
15:44	gmcharlt	the current DBIC suppport already provides basic data access classes
15:45	gmcharlt	my current thinking is that for simple things, the DBIC schema classes can safely be used directly
15:45	gmcharlt	and that we should interpose container classes only when needed
15:45	gmcharlt	for example - the concept of a bib is one that I think lends itself to such an intermediate class
15:46	gmcharlt	particularly since we're contemplating doing things like merging biblio and biblioitems
15:46	ColinC	They are intended to give you usuable objects
15:46	paul_p	gmcharlt my counter comment is "how will anyone know what it 'simple' and what is not" ? for newbies, won't it be less readable ?
15:46	gmcharlt	but things like authorised values? I see less of a reason write wrapper classes
15:46	gmcharlt	(though more scope to add methods to the base DBIC schema class if called for)
15:47	paul_p	having the same container schema everywhere may be a little bit boring to write, but changes nothing to readability or efficiency, and will be clearer
15:47	marcelr	lots of relative empty classes
15:47	paul_p	and what if one day something simple become no more simple ?
15:47	marcelr	create a class
15:47	cait	more code to maintain
15:47	gmcharlt	yes, piling on more code to maintain is not my preference
15:48	gmcharlt	and too many layers of delegation can impose a performance penalty
15:48	paul_p	gmcharlt the perf penalty is small (and tiny with plack)
15:48	Joubu	In my opinion, if the code is easy to understand, it is not a problem to have more code
15:48	ColinC	would be a good idea to do some concentrated work on an area of the application and learn a bit
15:49	Joubu	Is there already an example on how to implement an OO class using DBIC into Koha?
15:49	gmcharlt	paul_p: I do agree, however, that some syntactical sugar would be nice to get a schema class with less typing would be nice
15:49	gmcharlt	schema object, rather
15:49	gmcharlt	Joubu: well, the basic DBIC objects aren't hard to understand
15:50	Franziska	I am leaving the meeting,Thank you for your attention.
15:50	gmcharlt	so I don't per se see that more layers improve readability /necessarily/
15:50	gmcharlt	I could be swayed by a specific counter-example
15:51	gmcharlt	ColinC: yeah, that seems sensible
15:51	Joubu	gmcharlt: I already submit propositions and all have been rejected, I just would like someone to show me how to do
15:51	Joubu	Moreover, should we (QA team) authorize to use DBIC directly in pl scripts, or only in packages in the Koha namespace?
15:51	wajasu	but should we provide getRenewal vs. ??? wrap only were needed. if we write good tests for the data access "API", we can NYTProf and such and make it solid the layer testable.
15:51	cait	I think maybe some notes, good practice examples ont he wiki would help to clear confusion
15:52	marcelr	Joubu i think we wanted to use them from the Koha namespace?
15:52	cait	the RFC on the wiki is not quite what we have right now I think
15:52	marcelr	only
15:52	ColinC	The logic would be to use the objects directly in .pl scripts DBIC does the hiding of DBI for you
15:52	Joubu	marcelr: it is not everybody's opinion
15:52	gmcharlt	Joubu: IMO, direct use of DBIC in scripts is fine
15:52	marcelr	ColinC: now we move them to modules
15:53		vfernandes joined #koha
15:53	vfernandes	hi :)
15:53	marcelr	but it is just theory; in many cases you will need the module
15:53	gmcharlt	one second, digging up an example of something
15:53	paul_p	examlpe++
15:53	ColinC	adding an extra layer adds a place to add complucations and bugs
15:54	vfernandes	one question: i have a koha installation with 5 libraries... it's possible to block the user access to only some of that libraries?
15:54	marcelr	this extra layer is now in C4?
15:54	Joubu	gmcharlt: yes, I know :) But I disagree :)
15:54	cait	vfernandes: can you waita bit longer? we are currently havign a meeting and it's hard to concentrate on 2 things atonce :)
15:54	vfernandes	sorry :)
15:56	gmcharlt	ok, didn't find what I was looking for
15:56	gmcharlt	however, I agree with the general point that we need specific examples of recommended usage
15:56	marcelr	the move from C4 to Koha is now interfering with the DBICifying
15:56	gmcharlt	so I'll add that as a topic the March 5 meeting and work some up
15:56	ColinC	how?
15:56	cait	marcelr: there is not so much in Koha yet, maybe the newer ones could just use it?
15:57	cait	marcelr: when we need one that is
15:57	gmcharlt	#action gmcharlt will work on some DBIC examples; requests others to experiment as well
15:57	marcelr	should we refrain from adding DBIC into C4 ?
15:57	wajasu	for what was generated in master, did someone get that "work around" DBIC_????? flag out and was the schema adjusted to make DBIC happy (NULL foreign keys)?
15:58	ashimema	i feel the line between C4 and Koha has become rather hazy at best.. I often find myself a bit confused as to where something should go now.
15:58	gmcharlt	wajasu: yes
15:58	wajasu	great
15:58	marcelr	true and it will probably stay for some time :)
15:58	cait	i feel new modules into Koha ideally, but harder to tell when just adding new bits and pieces
15:59	ColinC	I think the difference is Koha modules have less history to support the are meant to be new thought
16:00	Joubu	gmcharlt: Note: I encountered an issue on writing UT for bug 8007 (cf patch UT). The transaction does not work, we use 2 handlers on the same DB
16:00	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8007 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Discharge management
16:00	marcelr	i also submitted a report this afternoon on some warnings on the connect bug 11835
16:00	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11835 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Warnings from DBIx about Moo::_Utils and Class::XSAccessor in Koha::Schema
16:03	cait	we are getting close to the hour now - maybe we need to talk about having another meeting/actions?
16:04		lcls joined #koha
16:04	gmcharlt	indeed
16:04	gmcharlt	but very breifly, first
16:04	wajasu	i did successfully code tests with http://search.cpan.org/~chisel[…]x/Class/Schema.pm
16:04	gmcharlt	#topic Large enhancements
16:04		Topic for #koha is now Large enhancements (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC)
16:04	gmcharlt	here's what I know of
16:04	gmcharlt	#info Rancor (cataloging editor)
16:04	gmcharlt	#info ElasticSearch
16:04	gmcharlt	what else?
16:04	cait	hm Accounts rewrite?
16:04	wajasu	account rewrite
16:05	paul_p	gmcharlt = how do you define "large" ?
16:05	cait	#info Accounts rewrite
16:05	Joubu	I have a lot of "large" enh in the queue
16:05	gmcharlt	paul_p: in this case, things that would require special effort to for signoff and QA by their nature
16:06	marcelr	when is the cutoff date?
16:06	cait	maybe we can add the multi transports as well
16:06	Joubu	bug 7180
16:06	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7180 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Order from staged file improvements
16:06	Joubu	bug 9016
16:06	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9016 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Multi transport types for notices
16:06	bag	morning
16:06	wahanui	hmmm... morning is a state of cat
16:06	Joubu	bug 10212
16:06	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10212 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Columns configuration for tables
16:06	Joubu	the history search
16:07	Joubu	bug 10858
16:07	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10858 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Browse selected biblios
16:07	cait	Joubu: big enhancements, but bit smaller than the other 3 i think, thankfully
16:07	marcelr	Joubu: bug 10858 will have my attention again very soon
16:07		rocio joined #koha
16:07	cait	smaller is good in that case
16:07	marcelr	hopefully before end of tomorrow :)
16:07	Joubu	cait: yes but they require special effort for so and qa
16:08	jenkins_koha	Project master_maria build #362: SUCCESS in 1 hr 0 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]master_maria/362/
16:08	jenkins_koha	Marcel de Rooy: Bug 11803: use $dbh consistently in _koha_modify_item
16:08	thd	What is involved in a 'special effort' for signoff? What distinguishes a 'special effort'?
16:08	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11803 trivial, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Pushed to Master , Consistent use of $dbh in _koha_modify_item
16:08	Joubu	bug 9011 is quite large too
16:08	gmcharlt	marcelr: I'm not setting a firm cutoff date just yet, but will do so by the March 5 meeting
16:08	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9011 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, In Discussion , Add the ability to store the last patron to return an item
16:08	Joubu	bug 9811
16:08	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9811 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Patrons search improvements
16:08	marcelr	gmcharlt: ok
16:08	cait	thd: everything gets special effort from the QA team ;)
16:08	marcelr	:)
16:08	wajasu	what about considering enduser migration from squeeze to wheezy. or mysql vs postgres vs mariadb
16:08	gmcharlt	thd: it's a bit of a gut feeling
16:08	cait	thd: but some things are harder, like touching lots of functionality, sensitive spots like holds, etc
16:09	marcelr	wajasu: isn't that linked to the dbic efforts..
16:09	gmcharlt	but basically, something that isn't just an incremental additional to existing functionality
16:09	cait	gmcharlt: i think another thing we need to fix eventually is the apache configuration for the new apache version
16:09	gmcharlt	most of Joubu's aren't quite so "large"
16:09	gmcharlt	(they're important, though, I'm not trying to minimize that)
16:10	gmcharlt	wajasu: I don't know of any particular blockers for folks to upgrade to Wheezy
16:10	gmcharlt	and they should do so soon, as Squeeze will be going away
16:10	gmcharlt	MariaDB is already a valid option, IMO
16:10		Franziska joined #koha
16:10	clrh	gmcharlt: not sure to understand what you are waiting for with this topic
16:10	wajasu	I am running mariadb on archlinux now so can test that.
16:10	ashimema	wajasu, we've updated lots of squeeze to wheezy.. none had any issues.
16:10	gmcharlt	as far as Pg, it will be more better in 3.16, but I don't expect it to be a first-class option prior to 3.18 at the earliest
16:11	gmcharlt	clrh: what I"m looking for is this, basically
16:11	cait	we are using wheezy, i just checked
16:11	gmcharlt	#info what big Koha dev projects have people been working on that they might like to get included soon, that they haven't really publicized or made avaialble for early testing
16:12	gmcharlt	and I think we can leave it at that
16:12	gmcharlt	#topic Follow-up
16:12		Topic for #koha is now Follow-up (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC)
16:12	gmcharlt	#info There will be a second running of today's meeting at 21:00 UTC
16:12	gmcharlt	as far as follow-up, are folks amenable to an IRC meeting during hackfest?
16:12	ashimema	I've been working on a refactoring of the patron import tools.. to introduce a command line version.. but it's not close to ready yet..
16:13	cait	i think if it's not too late and interfering with lunch...
16:13	gmcharlt	:)
16:13	wajasu	i want to add font configuration support for unicode fonts that support many languages like gentium/SIL and that can be used to print labels (TTF) as dobrivica is promoting.
16:13	ashimema	gmcharlt.. a followup during hackfest sounds like a pretty good idea.
16:13	gmcharlt	paul_p: what say you?
16:15	wajasu	aybe for plack it might be doable to support/use systemd for servers, and that might give us a watchdog to restart our server if it crashes.
16:15	paul_p	sorry, was with my kids. reading the logs...
16:15	gmcharlt	the immediate question is my proposal to hold a follow-up dev IRC meeting during hackfest
16:15	paul_p	yep, another meeting diring the hackfest is a good idea
16:15	gmcharlt	maybe include Google Hangout and the like as an option
16:16	gmcharlt	are there any days that are best during hackfest?
16:16	Joubu	ashimema: we have worked on that too
16:16	Joubu	(patron import tools)
16:16	ashimema	question: is anyone working towards bug 8190 going in?
16:16	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8190 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Passed QA , Add a logging module to Koha
16:16	paul_p	gmcharlt HG++, we use it all the time,
16:16	paul_p	gmcharlt not monday nor friday. I would say wed
16:16	paul_p	monday = not everybody here. friday= some already left.
16:17	paul_p	tuesday = let's start
16:17	paul_p	wed or thu = we're full power :D
16:17	ashimema	Joubu.. we should chat.. I've been following the various open bugs and merging in stuff.. but my work is high refactoring so didn't want to publicise it untill at least some of it works ;)
16:17	gmcharlt	does 15:00 UTC on 12 March work, then?
16:17	clrh	ashimema: passed qa for 8 months what are you looking for ? Joubu worked on this bz
16:17	gmcharlt	ashimema: Joubu: great, that's exactly the sort of thing I want to see
16:18	cait	paul_p: wed or thu sound good to me too
16:18	matts	ashimema, do you already have a BZ for that work ?
16:18	gmcharlt	clrh: and to be blunt - it needs work; IMO a logging module that does not include syslog support right away, and reinvents standard CPAN modules, was problematic
16:19	ashimema	not yet.. I'll put one up soon iminently.. was one of those things.. I started playing around with it and got lost in the details.
16:19	Joubu	gmcharlt: so the status is failed qa?
16:19	clrh	gmcharlt: but it adds value no ?
16:19	gmcharlt	Joubu: IMO yes, and I apologize for not being more direct about it
16:20	ashimema	gmcharlt, clrh: I'd love to see some decent logging in koha.. my recollection was that gmcharlt was going to post an counter proposal..
16:20	wajasu	i was looking at Badger maybe Badger::Log
16:20	Joubu	gmcharlt: I didn't reinvent CPAN module, I used Log::LogLite anyway
16:20	gmcharlt	clrh: adding value isn't the only criteria
16:20	gmcharlt	ashimema: yes; time has gotten away form me
16:20	clrh	gmcharlt: depends the point of view
16:20	ashimema	okies.. no worries.. jsut wondered on status and thought today a good time to give it a nudge ;)
16:21	gmcharlt	clrh: long-term supportability matters too, and in this case, there are better ways to do it
16:21	marcelr	sounds more like In Discussion than Failed QA
16:21	cait	clrh: i think the statsu shoudl probably have been In Discussion
16:21	Joubu	gmcharlt: In my opinion, if a patch improves the existing code/behavior, it is worth pushing it.
16:21	cait	as a lot of people have expressed concerns on the implementation
16:21	clrh	for me adding value for a user a developper is time won - if it is better than today, what is the problem ?
16:21	Joubu	gmcharlt: if it is not perfect, it could be improve later
16:21	ashimema	too many ways to skin a cat.
16:21	gmcharlt	Joubu: this is where we have a disagreement
16:22	gmcharlt	please consider the concept of technical debt
16:22	wajasu	we have alot of debt
16:22	marcelr	:)
16:22	gmcharlt	I woudl argue that we've incurred much more of it than we need to because of being a bit too willing to push anything that reaches us
16:22	ashimema	that we do..
16:22	gmcharlt	but I recognize that there's a balance
16:22	gmcharlt	and room for valid disagreement
16:22	thd	gmcharlt: What is mnt by 'technical debt'?
16:22	Joubu	gmcharlt: I am quite reactive, I think. And I can provide follow-up quickly if it is needed. It is really hard to maintain 80 patches and to rebase them every weeks.
16:23	ashimema	sorry.. didn't mean to start a war ;)
16:23	thd	s/ment/meant/
16:23	gmcharlt	thd: bascially, deferred technical maintenance on a codebase
16:23	gmcharlt	the C4 => Koha switch is an example of a project to try to pay off some of that debt
16:23	Joubu	cait: yes, there were concerns, but no proposition :)
16:23	cait	i think rangi tried to show some code on how to do it different
16:24	marcelr	remember he proposed another cpan module
16:24	cait	I think we need to get better at communicating in general - and communicating early on
16:24	gmcharlt	cait: he had; a bit more is needed, which was what I was aiming for but didn't get to
16:24	gmcharlt	but let's pause a minute and settle the meeting time
16:24	ashimema	agreed
16:24	gmcharlt	15:00 UTC and 21:00 UTC on 12 March 2014 for the next dev meeting?
16:25	clrh	ashimema: talking about disagreements and trying explain ourselves about what we live everyday is not a war I think :)
16:25	thd	gmcharlt: Do you mean that many small changes are difficult to push now because attention needs to be concentrated fixing historic problems?
16:25	gmcharlt	thd: http://martinfowler.com/bliki/TechnicalDebt.html
16:26	gmcharlt	I can bring up the schedulign question at the 5 March meeting
16:26	ashimema	clrh, it was meant lightheardedly..
16:26	cait	Joubu: for things in QA t might help to communicate - we communcate where we start with QA and then you can stop rebasing the other sin the meantime, if that would help
16:26	gmcharlt	but can I have some initial +1/-1 on the date?
16:26	ashimema	light-heartedly
16:26	gmcharlt	ashimema: so you whispered it? ;)
16:26	thd	+1
16:27	oleonard	+1
16:27	ashimema	:p
16:27	tcohen	+1
16:27	cait	+1
16:27	ashimema	+1
16:27	Joubu	+1
16:27	marcelr	+1
16:27	paul_p	gmcharlt = will the meeting last 1 hour ?
16:27	matts	+1
16:27	ashimema	+1
16:27	ashimema	for a hour..
16:28	wajasu	+1
16:28	gmcharlt	paul_p: yeah
16:28	ashimema	don't want to eat into hacking time too long ;)
16:28	paul_p	+1 then
16:28	gmcharlt	paul_p: I'll rely on you to manage the chatterboxes in Marseille ;)
16:28	paul_p	IRC or hangout ?
16:28	ashimema	hangout +1
16:29	tcohen	hangout++
16:29	cait	how many hanging out can the wifi support? :)
16:29	gmcharlt	#agreed Next dev meeting will be at 15UTC/21UTC on 12 March 2014 (pending confirmation from the second half of today's meeting)
16:29	ashimema	hangout on big screen maybe?
16:29	ashimema	we can work that out closer to the time though me thinks.
16:29	gmcharlt	possibliy both IRC and Hangout
16:29	paul_p	ashimema in BibLibre office, we can HG on a projector
16:29	Joubu	there is a limitation at 9 users on hg I think
16:29	gmcharlt	given the limit, yes
16:30	ashimema	think you can get around the limit using a google apps for business account?
16:30	paul_p	all hackfest attendees can share the same HG, so it could work
16:30	ashimema	sure I could offer ours if that's the case
16:31	gmcharlt	ashimema: please find out
16:31	gmcharlt	OK
16:31	gmcharlt	#endmeeting
16:31		Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha - this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software http://koha-community.org. Koha 3.14.3 is the latest release! The next general IRC meeting is on 5 March 2014 18:00 UTC.
16:31	huginn`	Meeting ended Tue Feb 25 16:31:29 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
16:31	huginn`	Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community[…]-02-25-14.59.html
16:31	huginn`	Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]4-02-25-14.59.txt
16:31	huginn`	Log: http://meetings.koha-community[…]25-14.59.log.html
16:31	rhcl	gmcharlt: RHCL generally supports the move to Unimarc as long as most of the user-end effects are textual. Currently we have to manually remove accent marks, especially in ES, when entering data.
16:32	thd	gmcharlt: Please help me to understand a little better the consequence of giving consideration to technical debt in Koha.
16:32	cait	rhcl: i think you might be confusing things :)
16:33	ashimema	gmcharlt.. will take a look.
16:33	rhcl	cait: quite possibly
16:33	gmcharlt	thd: in a nutshell - there is the possibility that a particular implementation of a new idea may inevitably incur more than the usual amount of cleanup required later
16:33	thd	gmcharlt: Do we hold back patches for minor incremental improvements pending a change in architecture?
16:33	cait	rhcl: I think you mean ICU - that would fix the accents
16:33	vfernandes	can I ask now? :P
16:33	gmcharlt	thd: that sort of technical debt is a tax on the ability of developers to add new features in the future
16:34	cait	rhcl: you can type them or not type them, both will find what you are looking for
16:34	gmcharlt	thd: and consideration should be given to avoding that
16:34	wajasu	vfernandes: yes
16:34	ashimema	vfernandes.. go ahead..
16:34	cait	rhcl: and you can already have that now :)
16:34	gmcharlt	thd: however, I encourage you to read and ponder the Martin Fowler piece and the links from it first
16:35	cait	UNIMARC is like MARC21 - just a bit different and used mostly in France and I think Spain?
16:35	jcamins	cait: Portugal.
16:35	wahanui	rumour has it portugal is nice and an entry point in Europe
16:35	cait	and ES will be Elastic search
16:35	vfernandes	with independentbranches on the librarian can only edit items of her librarian
16:35	cait	which is not quite there yet :)
16:36	vfernandes	can I give a librarian access to a group of libraries
16:36	thd	gmcharlt: I should have stated that I read and understood the Martin Fowler explanation of a well acknowledged problem.
16:36	vfernandes	for example I have an installation with 5 independent libraries... but to a librarian I want to give access to 3 of that 5 libraries
16:36	vfernandes	it is possible?
16:37	thd	gmcharlt: I am trying to discover what practical effect considering 'technical debt' is intended to have on prospective patches.
16:37	vfernandes	ps: UNIMARC is common in Portugal :)
16:39	wajasu	did we every try getting Test::DBIx::Class::SchemaManager::Trait::Testmysqld or Test::DBIx::Class::SchemaManager::Trait::Testpostgresql running?
16:39	* ashimema	heads off to QA bug 11096
16:40	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11096 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Signed Off , Koha cannot retrieve big records from Zebra
16:40	gmcharlt	thd: it is one of several criteria that could lead to a patch being rejected or deferred if it is judged to impose to much debt
16:40	vfernandes	can I give a librarian access to more than 1 library using independentbranches on=
16:40	vfernandes	?
16:40	thd	gmcharlt: Thank you, that was the answer which I was seeking.
16:42	* cait	cheers ashimema on
16:42	thd	druthb: are you now here?
16:42	druthb	for some value of "here"
16:44	thd	druthb: I am interested in further clarification on the right to left language issue for MARC.
16:44	cait	vfernandes: you could add another account, but apart from that you will have to wait for some features that khall was working on
16:44	wajasu	somebody give me something to test/signoff on. i am having a hard time finding things that aren't in some state of gridlock.
16:44	cait	vfernandes: currently it's totally divdided or all together,not much in between
16:44	vfernandes	damn it :D
16:45	vfernandes	i was afraid of that
16:45	thd	druthb: You were told that a MARC display should be generally left to right for MARC even when cataloguing in a right to left language, if I understood correctly.
16:47	oleonard	Is there something I need to enable in order to be able to schedule reports?
16:47	oleonard	I get "Failed to add scheduled task" when I try to do so.
16:47	oleonard	Oh, and I see an error in the log: "You do not have permission to use atq."
16:47	thd	druthb: Should the content of the textual subfields, however, not be right to left within the individual subfield while the record as a whole and coded non-textual subfields would be left to right?
16:47	cait	oleonard: i never got around that :(
16:50	thd	druthb: Is the problem for MARC in right to left languages really one of lack of granularity for how Koha had been treating right to left for the record editor in particular?
16:52	wajasu	cait. i was able to make the xslt subject headings an html list, but ran into the complex case where 505a was a big chunk of subjects delimited by -- in a format note. So i did not have time to get into search/replace coding in xslt.
16:54	thd	druthb: Is my question about record editor presentation in right to left languages clear?
16:54	wajasu	as is the case for http://library.redeemerseminar[…]=kw,wrdl:%20vines
16:56	oleonard	Is the task scheduler run via cron job?
16:57	wajasu	atq i believe is the linux "at" command for running a one time job with cron.
16:58	wajasu	http://linux.about.com/library[…]d/blcmdl1_atq.htm
16:58	wajasu	atq lists jobs
17:00	gmcharlt	I would appreciate feedback on bug 11836, as I see a couple different directions for centralizing the cataloging toolbar management code
17:00	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11836 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , population of template variables used by cat-toolbar.inc should be centralized
17:03	oleonard	I'm trying to test saved reports with some data in the "saved results" column and I don't know what to do. I successfully scheduled a report but it doesn't seem to have run.
17:03	wajasu	i'd go with the later option, since its presentation specfic. But if you want a test written, the class you mentioned might be easier to write one for.
17:04	wajasu	oleonard: let me try in my environment. I was working on some yesterday.
17:06	gmcharlt	bug 11837 is similar
17:06	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11837 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , generation of template-variables used by members-toolbar.inc should be centralized
17:06	wajasu	i have the same problem trying to schedule. let me look at the code.
17:06	gmcharlt	wajasu: actually, I don't think it's any harder to write test cases for template plugins
17:07	gmcharlt	e.g., t/db_dependent/Koha_template_plugin_Branches.t
17:07	wajasu	ok. a plugin.
17:07	wahanui	a plugin is jquery.qtip.js. It's used somewhere in budgets admin I think
17:07	oleonard	wahanui: forget a plugin
17:07	wahanui	oleonard: I forgot plugin
17:11	jenkins_koha	Project Koha_master build #1644: SUCCESS in 2 hr 1 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1644/
17:11	jenkins_koha	Marcel de Rooy: Bug 11803: use $dbh consistently in _koha_modify_item
17:11	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11803 trivial, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Pushed to Master , Consistent use of $dbh in _koha_modify_item
17:14		mtompset_away joined #koha
17:14	mtompset	Greetings, #koha.
17:14	Joubu	gmcharlt: The patch you proposed on bug 10865 looks good to me, good catch!
17:14	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10865 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, In Discussion , Don't show list permissions when adding public lists/sharing lists is not allowed
17:16	gmcharlt	oleonard: do you want to apply some styling to it now?
17:17	gmcharlt	Joubu: thanks for testing it
17:17	gmcharlt	and thanks for fixing my typo ;)
17:17	* oleonard	will take a look
17:20		ashimema joined #koha
17:21	* gmcharlt	wonders if DataTables can be induced to let one specify sortable columns by (say) header row ID or class rather than numeric postion
17:23	wajasu	if this is the library we use http://yuilibrary.com/yui/docs[…]ble.Sortable.html i believe so. then we won't have bugs creep up when columns added.
17:23	gmcharlt	YUI is dead to us
17:23	gmcharlt	http://datatables.net/ is what I'm referring to
17:25		cait left #koha
17:26	gmcharlt	and to answer my question - looks like yes, via aoColumnDefs/aTargets
17:30	oleonard	Yeah gmcharlt that method is used in some places I think.
17:30	oleonard	I
17:31	oleonard	try to pick the least verbose config for each case
17:32	tcohen	@later tell eythian I've just released a patched Memoize::Memcached. Its my first CPAN contribution and is a trivial patch. Would you take a look at it and comment on problem you find?
17:32	huginn`	tcohen: The operation succeeded.
17:35	gmcharlt	oleonard: I just sent an email to koha-devel about it
17:35	gmcharlt	in this case, I suspect that a bit more verbosity may help us in the long run
17:36	gmcharlt	tcohen++
17:36	reiveune	bye
17:36		reiveune left #koha
17:37	gmcharlt	tcohen: where does the source repo for it live, nowadyas?
17:37	tcohen	there wasn't any, i started a gitorious one
17:37	gmcharlt	were you able to reach the original maintainer at all, or did you have to request a takeover from CPAN?
17:38	tcohen	i coordinated it with the original author
17:38	gmcharlt	cool
17:38	tcohen	he gave me the rights
17:39	mtompset	Sweet!
17:39	mtompset	Greetings, gmcharlt tcohen oleonard.
17:40	mtompset	Greetings, wajasu Joubu. :)
17:40	wajasu	Hiya!
17:42	wajasu	if anyone sees something testable I should try or rescue just give me a bg number
17:43	oleonard	wajasu: http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]n=run&sharer_id=1
17:43	wajasu	i'm not sure bug 1993 is working. at least not for me on master.
17:43	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1993 major, P3, ---, sophie.meynieux, In Discussion , Task Scheduler Needs Re-write
17:49	mtompset	Is 20GB a good recommendation for minimal disk space required?
17:50		Dyrcona1 joined #koha
17:51	mtompset	wajasu: Doesn't that task scheduler use at?
17:51	mtompset	I vaguely remember having to do something I didn't want to do in order to get it to run.
17:52	wajasu	probably add http to /etc/at.allow and such. its got some other problem. got to debug.
17:53	gmcharlt	mtompset: one can go lower for a toy database, but there's a point where I prefer not to encourage people to skimp too m9uch on disk space
17:53	gmcharlt	heck, not even toy, a small library can live on 20G
17:53	gmcharlt	but generally disk is cheap
17:56	mtompset	The reason I ask is because someone thought, "Oh, 4GB should be enough for an Ubuntu install with a Koha git install," and discovered it wasn't.
17:57	mtompset	So they created bug 11830, and I pointed out that I've got a 15GB VM and only have 2.7G free now.
17:57	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11830 minor, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Needs Signoff , Document disk space requirements for git install on Ubuntu
17:57	mtompset	So, I redid what they patched, but with 20GB.
17:58	mtompset	I can't wait until 14.04 comes out. I love new LTS releases. :)
17:58	wajasu	they were creating a VM. i have one now at 4G and am at 91% full. I'm sure they put 6GB so as not to hava VM thats too big.
17:59	* tcohen	knows storage space is expensive
17:59	gmcharlt	heh
17:59	gmcharlt	my perspective may be a bit skewed
17:59	mtompset	wajasu: But then your data set must be microscopic.
18:00	gmcharlt	but absent cases where one really cannot get more spaces, I still prefer recommending a little high
18:00	mtompset	wajasu: Also, are you using Ubuntu? I thought you were some crazy thing like arch linux.
18:00	wajasu	yes. but I use a script to create new VMs and can adjust the size.
18:00	gmcharlt	I've seen just one too many setup have issues because they ran out of disk space
18:00	wajasu	i run on archlinux, but i create a VM doing an automated debian install.
18:02	tcohen	bye #koha
18:02	mtompset	oh shoot... did I miss the DBIx meeting stuff?
18:02	wajasu	i just tweek a preseed.cfg script for different distro, and I sshfs /home/koha/kohaclone to my archlinux host, so I can git clone and use my tools on my host OS.
18:03	gmcharlt	mtompset: you can have another go during the second part of the meeting
18:03	mtompset	when is that?
18:03	wajasu	3pm CST
18:03		rocio joined #koha
18:03	fridolin	I'm on Lubuntu, you should try it, it realy light and so powerfull
18:03	wajasu	who is doing the marc editor in javascript?
18:04	gmcharlt	pianohacker is the primary dev on that project
18:05	mtompset	Ah, 4pm EST, okay.
18:05	mtompset	How long did the first one go, gmcharlt?
18:06	gmcharlt	about 1.5 hours
18:07	gmcharlt	I'll be trying to keep the second one closder to 1
18:08	mtompset	Okay good. Because I have to leave at 5:30pm EST.
18:14		laurence left #koha
18:22	wajasu	i'm trying to place ahold in the OPAC. I have all the admin settings on. where does a link or button show up for placing a hold.
18:22		fridolin left #koha
18:24		cait joined #koha
18:27	* cait	is back
18:27	cait	:)
18:30	gaetan_B	bye !
18:59		pianohacker joined #koha
19:03	pianohacker	yo
19:03	magnuse	yoyoyo
19:04		rhcl joined #koha
19:06	* rangi	reads the log
19:07	cait	morning rangi
19:10	rangi	hopefully round 2 will be less whiny and more productive
19:14	mtompset	whiny?
19:15	wajasu	folks wanting stuff with no plan of action for every wish mentioned.
19:21	rangi	maybe i need to show people rebase -i --onto sometime
19:22	cait	for easier rebasing?
19:22	* cait	loves it :)
19:22	cait	using it to manage our few customisations
19:22	rangi	yep
19:23	rangi	running local branches, with small commits, then merge squash to attach etc
19:23	rangi	makes life a lot easier
19:23	magnuse	put it on the wiki? :-)
19:23	rangi	im not sure people ever read the wiki ;)
19:24	rangi	what we do need is a librarian or 3
19:24	magnuse	http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]i/Tips_and_tricks
19:24	rangi	to become curators of the wiki
19:24	magnuse	yeah, that would be super cool
19:24	rangi	because its really hard to find stuff unless you know what you are after
19:24	magnuse	maybe "announce the positions" on the mailinglist?
19:25	rangi	hmm could be worth a try
19:30	wajasu	oleanard: i was testing 11702, and it seems to work without the patch. i just used the calendar widget to select the suspend-until date. does it have to do with manual date entry?
19:31	wajasu	oleonard: i mean ^^^
19:31	rangi	oleonard: loving the datatables patches, they are great for getting the high school kids to test with the sandbox, 3 more yesterday :)
19:31	cait	but 11702
19:31	cait	bu 11702
19:31	cait	bug 11702
19:31	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11702 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Can't specify date for automatic resumption of suspended hold
19:34	oleonard	Oh I hadn't seen rangi's comment on that bug.
19:35	oleonard	wajasu: It doesn't have to do with manual date entry
19:35	rangi	oh yeah i wastnt sure about that, gmcharlt http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]g.cgi?id=11702#c2
19:35	huginn`	Bug 11702: normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Can't specify date for automatic resumption of suspended hold
19:36	oleonard	rangi: I simply looked for date-handling code which worked that I could steal.
19:37	wajasu	i placed a hold with and without your patch and i queried reserves and got the same behavior.
19:37	mtompset	wajasu++ # wanting to support an SIL font. ;)
19:38	rangi	oleonard: yep exactly what i would have done, im just not sure about the state of C4::Dates
19:38	oleonard	wajasu: You suspended the holds and it saved a valid date?
19:39	wajasu	well, with my selection of a date from the widget. i just saved with a blank field though and its null.
19:41	wajasu	so maybe the null is getting transformed to 000-00-00 in some other hold processing code, and what we need to do is validate the input field.
19:41	Joubu	rangi: do you think I was whiny? :)
19:41	oleonard	wajasu: A hold can either be suspended until a certain date or indefinitely
19:41		rocio joined #koha
19:41	wajasu	ok. so null is fine then.
19:42	rangi	Joubu: not just you, just the general tone
19:43		move_ joined #koha
19:44	gmcharlt	oleonard: rangi: use of Koha::DateUtils is more idiomatic, nowaways
19:44	gmcharlt	so that patch appears to signal a problem with that module
19:47	rangi	nod
19:47	Joubu	rangi: I am often grumpy, but I know git rebase --onto, and it does not help me very much (a lot of patches with several branches to maintain).
19:48	wajasu	maybe you saw 000-00-00 when working bug 11694?
19:48	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11694 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Improve handling of individual hold suspension in Bootstrap OPAC
19:48	Joubu	So, I hope you will be more productive than "us" too :)
19:48	Joubu	good luck
19:48	Joubu	have a good meeting everyone, see you tomorrow
19:49	oleonard	Hey all o' y'all gotta get your demos up and running and/or up to date and/or containing bibliographic holdings. Thanks.
19:49	oleonard	http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]emo_Installations
19:50	oleonard	Until then I beseech someone to test to see if suspending an individual hold in the OPAC works correctly
19:53	mtompset	oleonard: How does that tie in with http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Sandboxes
19:53		pablito joined #koha
19:58		paul_p joined #koha
19:59	oleonard	I don't know what you mean mtompset
20:01	ashimema	@later tell marcelr You asked about SRU with DOM.. the bug I was thinking about was bug 9612
20:01	huginn`	ashimema: The operation succeeded.
20:01	mtompset	http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ailable_Sandboxes
20:01	oleonard	mtompset: I am aware of the sandboxes.
20:02	mtompset	Are sandboxes different than demos?
20:02	ashimema	We gave up on our demo site.. it now 'is' one of our sandbox instances ;)
20:02	gmcharlt	yes
20:02	gmcharlt	the BL sandboxes are desgined to let somebody claim one, apply a patch series from a bug, and test it
20:02	ashimema	but yes.. a demo is differnt to a sandbox.. ours just hapens to be running upon a sandbox so always follwoing master ;)
20:03	ashimema	gmcharlt.. ptfs europe host a few sandboxes now too.. I've added a umber for the hackfest..
20:03	ashimema	right.. time for some dinner before the next meetins
20:04	* mtompset	is putting on his chauffeur hat.
20:05	gmcharlt	ashimema: ah cool, I wasn't aware of that
20:05		mrenvoize joined #koha
20:05	_ashimema	;)
20:09	cait	ashimema++ and ptfs_europe++
20:10	_ashimema	thanks cait ;)
20:11	cait	it's really cool :)
20:11	_ashimema	been looking over my nginx/plack testing.. that patch isn't in bad shape actually.. with a medium amount of effort it should be ready for signoff/qa
20:12		mrenvoize joined #koha
20:12	cait	:)
20:13	mrenvoize	i'm thinking a followup would be needed to ensure compatability with packages mind.. but then the patch i'm thinking of was only ever originally designed for testing purposes.
20:13	cait	i am a bit worried about the new apache version
20:13	cait	it already gives me trouble with ubuntu on my laptop
20:13	rangi	yeah we need to finish that bug
20:13	cait	would be good to see that moving too
20:14	mrenvoize	I remember reading through that bug.. whats holding it up, I can't remember
20:14		rhcl joined #koha
20:14	cait	hm maybe it was packages
20:14	cait	because needs to be changed there too? not sure
20:15	* mrenvoize	goes off to read the bug
20:15	mrenvoize	ack
20:16	oleonard	So... scheduling saved reports. Is that simply not working? Or am I missing something?
20:16	cait	it did never work for me
20:16	cait	but i think _ashimema might know something
20:16	cait	but i think you can't do it from th einterface, only manually adding a cronjob maybe?
20:18	jcamins	oleonard: I don't think that's ever worked.
20:18	jcamins	Certainly when I started using Koha in 2009 I was told that the feature didn't work.
20:18	wajasu	it doesn't look like it should work as it is now. i'm looking ate tools/scheduler.pl on master and its still got EXPORT in caps.
20:20		mrenvoize joined #koha
20:20	mrenvoize	you can do this in both packages and dev installs
20:21	barton	I'm tryiing to get an understanding of what the file 'ccl.properties' does. http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ng_Zebra_indexing only says "for searching purposes".
20:21	mrenvoize	but yeah.. the staff client scheduling has never worked since i've been working with koha.. though I'de love to see that change... it's on my todo list.. but not very high up it
20:22	rangi	mrenvoize: https://soundcloud.com/high-ra[…]the-eye-feat-paul <-- nz/uk collaboration
20:24	cait	hm i think
20:24	cait	mapping the bib1 attribute to the index?
20:24	cait	but others will know better :)
20:24	ashimema	nice..
20:24	ashimema	barton.. just diggin out my notes on that
20:25	cait	ashimema: don#t forget your dinner!
20:25	ashimema	pressure cookers are great.. 2 hours dinner cooked in minutes !
20:25	barton	ashimema: I actually found something on this -- http://manual.koha-community.o[…]/searchguide.html
20:25	ashimema	tasty ragu
20:25	ashimema	cool
20:27	ashimema	barton.. pming you my notes anyways. they're rather concise.. it took me ages to work them out.
20:27	cait	ashimema++ :)
20:28	ashimema	rangi: awesome song.
20:29	* cait	is also listening to it :)
20:31		nengard joined #koha
20:32	ashimema	barton: here's my zebra braindump in a more edible format: http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]i/MRenvoize/zebra
20:33	barton	ashimema++
20:33	rangi	https://soundcloud.com/loopcre[…]nd-not-the-lesson <-- paul mclaney .. but this time with module who is from island bay (my suburb)
20:33	jcamins	NOOOOOOO!!!!
20:34	jcamins	ashimema: ummm... step two of the additional steps for DOM indexing is not so good.
20:34	jcamins	That step instructs you to run make_zebra_dom_cfg_from_record_abs.
20:34	ashimema	there are further notes as to why that's a bad idea..
20:35	ashimema	or did i copy the wrong page from our internal wiki.
20:35	jcamins	Wrong page, I think.
20:35	ashimema	checking now..
20:35	jcamins	That just tells you to make a few manual changes after regenerating the DOM config.
20:37	ashimema	yeah.. needs more thinking through.. but I was hoping to just get the point of ccl.properties accross really..
20:37	ashimema	not meant to be a 'public' per say page..
20:38	cait	maybe just delete the part about dom for now?
20:38	cait	no confusion :)
20:38	jcamins	The rest of it's right.
20:38	ashimema	barton: jcamins is right.. if your using grs-1 it's fine.. jsut ignore the dom extra's.. if your want dom. ask hree for further clarification
20:38	* ashimema	goes and cleans out the dom bit of that page.
20:39	* cait	thinks that page has nicer formatting than most of our other pages
20:39	jcamins	cait: it does.
20:39	ashimema	jcamins.. how would you go and update dom configs now then.. (i still use those scripts, then diff their output with a backup of the original copying across the extra's form the old to the new)
20:40	ashimema	yeah.. I like wiki's ;)
20:40	ashimema	unfortunately our 'private wiki' has turned into my personal brain dump now as they the company decided to switch to google sites (which is horrible)
20:41	ashimema	and.. the formatting would be nicer if it community ran up to date mediawiki.. there's folding and all sorts on that page.. but it doesn't work with community version of mediawiki ;)
20:41	barton	ashimema actually, I am using DOM.
20:41	ashimema	dang..
20:41	rangi	ashimema: just making the GHCQ's job easier
20:41	cait	?
20:41	ashimema	ok.. I'll have a go at updating the docs
20:41	ashimema	indeed
20:41	rangi	sorry gchq
20:42	ashimema	lol.. I almost got a job with them before koha ;)
20:42	rangi	heh
20:42	jcamins	ashimema: you have to edit koha-indexdefs.xml and then generate the xsl from that.
20:42	jcamins	It's just the first part of that step that's bad.
20:43	jcamins	The problem is that running that first command could be very, very bad. Especially if you have a large database, and decide to reindex.
20:43	* jcamins	shudders at the thought.
20:43	ashimema	yeah.. I've never taken the time to understand koha-indexdef.xml well enough to edit it directly yet though jcamins ;)
20:43	gmcharlt	it's not that complicated
20:43	jcamins	It's very simple.
20:43	ashimema	hense why I use the script, then vimdiff with my backup.. it works well enough.
20:43	ashimema	lol.. i've barely ever opened the file..
20:43	jcamins	Sometimes a little too simple, alas.
20:43	gmcharlt	though as is common with XML formats, I wouldn't be surprised if the verbosity gets in the way for a lot of folks
20:44	gmcharlt	jcamins: complexifying patches welcome ;)
20:44	* jcamins	has versions of the Zebra indexdefs that are handwritten, alas.
20:44	ashimema	mostly I was pulling accross customisations for customers during upgrades.. so the changes had been made pre-dom.
20:44	jcamins	gmcharlt: eh, I have had nowhere near enough problems to justify complexifying it, just observing that it can happen.
20:45	ashimema	well.. with any luck we'll be withdraing non-dom support.. then i don't have to bother trying ot keep the two configs synced ;)
20:46		meliss joined #koha
20:48	ashimema	is it worth me sanitizing my zebra page and sticking it in the wiki proper then?.. there is a page on there that already attempts to explain it.. but it's a bit less 'clear'
20:49	jcamins	You could update the existing page by copying in your text. I think the existing page is mostly just a copy of things that were said in IRC.
20:50	ashimema	yup
20:50	gmcharlt	#3 isn't quite true if QP is on
20:50	ashimema	of course.. that makes sense
20:51	ashimema	QP uses pqf right?
20:51	gmcharlt	yep
20:51	gmcharlt	second half of the meeting starts in 9 minutes
20:51	* rangi	gets coffee
20:52	ashimema	or was is cql.. or forget.. jcamins care to pipe up ;)
20:52	jcamins	PQF.
20:52	ashimema	i remeber you exmplaining it.. but don't remeber which tla was which ;)
20:52	ashimema	cheers mate
20:53	ashimema	pqf, but falls back to ccl for a number of cases does it not?
20:53		docrowe joined #koha
20:53	jcamins	It falls back to non-QP existing code if it can't handle the query, yeah.
20:54	ashimema	coolios..
20:55	wajasu	how about some cookies
20:59	thd	gmcharlt: Is the second half of the meeting intended to have a partly different agenda or merely serve a different timezone?
20:59		eythian_ joined #koha
20:59	eythian_	There's a meeting thing about now, right?
21:00	gmcharlt	thd: same agenda
21:00	cait	yep eythian
21:00	thd	eythinan_: yes
21:01	gmcharlt	#startmeeting Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC
21:01	huginn`	Meeting started Tue Feb 25 21:01:00 2014 UTC. The chair is gmcharlt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:01	huginn`	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
21:01		Topic for #koha is now (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC)
21:01	huginn`	The meeting name has been set to 'koha_dev_meeting__25_february_2014_21_00_utc'
21:01	gmcharlt	#link http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]February_25,_2014
21:01	gmcharlt	#topic Introductions
21:01	wahanui	#info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
21:01		Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC)
21:01	mtompset	#info Mark Tompsett
21:01	gmcharlt	#info gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, 3.16 RM, Equinox, USA
21:01	eythian_	#info Robin Sheat, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
21:01	JesseM	#info Jesse Maseto - ByWater
21:02	rangi	#info Chris Cormack, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
21:02	thd	#info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
21:03	ashimema	#info Martin Renvoize, PTFS-Europe, UK
21:03	cait	#info Katrin Fischer, BSZ
21:04	gmcharlt	ok, I'm going to recap announcements from the previous meeting
21:04	gmcharlt	#topic Announcements
21:04		Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC)
21:04	gmcharlt	#info gmcharlt will be clearing the passed QA queue prior to the beginning of the hackfest in Marseille
21:04	gmcharlt	#info end of tomorrow will be cutoff for new passed QA until the hackfest in Marseille, QA team to focus on sign offs and kitten rescue
21:04	rangi	cool
21:05	gmcharlt	#info the hackfest in Marseille is 10-14 March
21:05	wahanui	i already had it that way, gmcharlt.
21:05	jcamins	#info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services
21:05	mtompset	-- kitten rescue?
21:05	gmcharlt	mtompset: resucing patches in failed QA or does not aply status
21:05	mtompset	thank you.
21:05	ashimema	everybody love saving kitten mtompset
21:05	gmcharlt	any other announcements folks care to make?
21:07	gmcharlt	ok
21:07	rangi	ill cover mine when we get to elasticsearch
21:07	gmcharlt	#topic RM questions
21:07		Topic for #koha is now RM questions (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC)
21:07	gmcharlt	I'm passing over the UNIMARC questions and repeating this one:
21:07	gmcharlt	is there a reasonable Plack configuration that we could include in 3.16, and encourage as a first-class install option?
21:07	gmcharlt	#info is there a reasonable Plack configuration that we could include in 3.16, and encourage as a first-class install option?
21:08	ashimema	I looked over my notes for bug 9316 as promised at the earlier meeting.
21:08	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9316 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Add Nginx install options with plack
21:08	ashimema	It's not in bad shape really.. probably a worthwhile one to work through for getting plack easily usable by all
21:09	eythian_	from a packaging point of view, it's close but there is one major issue with it that I haven't tried to solve yet, and that's that it won't do shared sites well at all at the moment.
21:09	ashimema	it was, however, mostly aimed at making plack more easily installable and therfore testable.. I don't know if it's the 'best' way of doing it, or how it plays with packages.
21:09	gmcharlt	another issue that rangi has mentioned, but which I'm not sure is in a bug yet, is management of connections to Zebra
21:09	eythian_	i.e. if you have 10 workers sitting around, and 10 sites on there, that's going to end up with 100 workers running, and no memory.
21:10	gmcharlt	in particular, zebrasrv will time out connections, but there's apparently no good way for the ZOOM API to detect that
21:10	gmcharlt	so users can run into a backend that has lost its Zebra connectin
21:10	rangi	thats exactly it
21:10	ashimema	ooh. not thought of either of those points.
21:10	eythian_	we do have a handy script that'll turn a regular package installation into a plack installation.
21:11	ashimema	cool.. eythian.. any chance of sharing that?
21:11	rangi	only the opac tho
21:11	ashimema	would hapily help with testing here.
21:11	eythian_	https://github.com/mkfifo/koha-gitify <-- ashimema
21:11	eythian_	no wait
21:11	eythian_	hmm, not sure where it lives.
21:12	rangi	on git.catalyst
21:12	rangi	2 secs
21:12	ashimema	cheers.
21:12	eythian_	http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?p=koha-plack.git
21:12	eythian_	^-- there
21:12	rangi	thats it
21:13	rangi	however for the search to work consistently
21:13	rangi	you need something like this
21:13	rangi	http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?[…]86e253cb4dfe04597
21:14	rangi	(but nicer obviously)
21:14	mtompset	Hmmm... that reminds me of a patch I recently signed off.
21:14	eythian_	Ideally we'd build the proxy into the install.
21:14	mtompset	or read.
21:15		thd` joined #koha
21:15	ashimema	so.. in short it needs a bit more thought and testing
21:15	rangi	yes
21:15	rangi	the opac, apart from that problem works well
21:15	gmcharlt	that confirms my suspicions
21:15	eythian_	but when it works, it works really nicely.
21:15	rangi	the intranet needs a ton more testing
21:15	ashimema	I thought paul_p had it running somewhere.. surprised he's not pointed out the search issues
21:16	cait	hm he said something about having to restart it or something?
21:16	ashimema	yeah.. good point cait.
21:16		thd` joined #koha
21:16	cait	also the problem is that a single library will never use all features
21:16	cait	circ might work well, while some tool doesn't
21:16	thd`	To what extent is work on elastic search being shared between Koha and Evergreen?
21:16	wajasu	has anyone though of using systemd to manage start/restart/stop of servers. i believe systemd can be a watchdog and restart crashed services.
21:17	rangi	thd`: we arent even up to that yet
21:17	thd`	sorry, I was disconnected
21:17	ashimema	indeed.. I was hoping to use a few of our more friendly customers as ginny pigs
21:17	eythian_	wajasu: the problem is mostly memory leaks and unreleased resources, I think.
21:17	gmcharlt	replacing Evergreen's search engine is not on anybody's radar to my knowledge
21:17	rangi	wajasu: its not a stopped/crashed server
21:17	rangi	its a timed out connection
21:17	wajasu	oh
21:17	rangi	zebra very very very rarely crashes
21:18	rangi	the ZOOM api has no way of knowing if a connection is live
21:18	rangi	in fact z3950
21:18	rangi	is not designed to be used in the way we use it
21:18	rangi	however, 99% of the world try to do the same thing we do
21:19	rangi	which is why yaz-proxy and things like it exist
21:19	rangi	and why LOC use yaz-proxy in front of their ILS
21:19	gmcharlt	indeed
21:19	gmcharlt	I think this is a reasonable seque to...
21:19	gmcharlt	#topic Elastic Search
21:19		Topic for #koha is now Elastic Search (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC)
21:19	* ashimema	got left behind at the mention of yaz-proxy...
21:19	gmcharlt	rangi: can you give a summary of where Catalyst is with it?
21:20	thd`	rangi: In what way do you mean not designed for our use case?
21:20	rangi	we have one client running the opac in production
21:20	gmcharlt	ashimema: (briefly, yaz-proxy in front of Zebra will take care of trying and reopening the Zebra connect if it times out)
21:20	rangi	with the above commit, to make it reconnect to zebra each search (exactly what happens under cgi)
21:20	ashimema	thought that might be the case.. cheers gmcharlt
21:20	rangi	it works great, and has stopped the site dying under big load which it used to do each month
21:21	rangi	(when they publish a newsletter that pounded the opac to death)
21:21	eythian_	yeah, it barely broke a sweat with thousands of requests in a short space of time
21:21	ashimema	I see, a worthwhile note..
21:21	rangi	we are planning to do a lot more testing on the intranet
21:21	eythian_	normally it'd be all OOM then die
21:21	rangi	yep
21:21	rangi	id happily run the opac under plack, with the ZConn fix
21:21	eythian_	(I did spend time tuning it to ensure it couldn't OOM under plack too, that's necessary but not hard._
21:21	eythian_	)
21:22	rangi	in production
21:22	rangi	thd`: holding connections open
21:22	ashimema	so.. may worth working that installer patch out such that it cleanly adds the workaround so we can get more sites testing rigorously.
21:23	rangi	but it would be better to get yaz-proxy in there, which will be useful under cgi too
21:23	* ashimema	adds mental note
21:23	thd`	rangi: If you do not hold connections open with Z39.50 your request fails.
21:23	* ashimema	apologises for holding up conversation on ElasticSearch..
21:23	eythian_	there's no reason we couldn't add it to the package install, perhaps as an option, aside from someone taking the time to do it.
21:23	rangi	nod
21:24	gmcharlt	ok, dragging us back on topic, please...
21:24	cait	ashimema: things are clearer for me now too - so thx for holding up
21:24	cait	:)
21:25	rangi	right elastic search
21:25	rangi	we have indexing (when a biblio is modified) and a basic search going
21:26	rangi	eythian has done work on an iterator for biblios to allow for a batch index (amongst others)
21:26	eythian_	still not ready, but getting there.
21:26	rangi	next on the cards is a browse search, whcih is one of hte requirements of the funding institution
21:27	rangi	after that, intranet search
21:27	gmcharlt	browse in this case meaning what, exactly? bib headings, authority headings, or both?
21:27	thd`	rangi: How is browse search envisioned by the client?
21:28	rangi	then time permitting, create a fully js search page, (since elasticsearch hands back JSON)
21:28	rangi	gmcharlt: kinda both
21:28	cait	rangi: what does basic search include?
21:28	rangi	thd`: a library browse .. so something no one else on the planet would understand
21:28	rangi	but apparently is vitally important to librarians
21:29	ashimema	lol, I've never really understood what librarians mean by 'browse search'
21:29	rangi	cait: just author, keyword, title at the moment
21:29	cait	that's not too bad :)
21:29	eythian_	once the fundamentals are in place, adding more is easy.
21:29	rangi	we aim to have a demo site up for playing with at the hackfest
21:29	gmcharlt	WIP can be viewed where?
21:29	cait	mostly alphabetic index i think - libraries here are asking for that as well
21:29	thd`	rangi: Does that mean browsing the semantic space of classification or subject headings hierarchically?
21:29	rangi	yep
21:30	rangi	http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?[…]ds/elastic_search
21:30	rangi	thd`: no idea, im not gonna reread the spec thing now
21:30	thd`	;)
21:30	rangi	blah blah millenium blah blah horizon .. blah blah
21:30	rangi	thats what it said to me
21:30	ashimema	silly question time.. how does it actually fit together in terms of side by side with zebra, drop in replacement.. does your work do anything to abstract so we could use variose search backends?
21:31	rangi	im hoping we can do something that humans will actually understand though :)
21:31	rangi	ashimema: its working side by side
21:31	rangi	if you switch the syspref it indexes to elasticsearch TOO
21:31	rangi	ie its still indexing zebra in the background
21:32	rangi	so you can have elasticsearch on the opac and zebra on the back (like now)
21:32	ashimema	I see..
21:32	rangi	it might be a switch, when the intranet searches work with it too
21:32	ashimema	so keeping zebra for z39.50 (SRU) support, but using ES for OPAC and eventually intranet search
21:33	rangi	eventually yeah
21:33	thd`	rangi: Do you mean the your implementation is merely complementary to what Zebra provides because we have tied so much functionality to Zebra?
21:33	ashimema	coolios.
21:33	rangi	thd`: i dont want to write a z3950 or sru/sw server
21:33	rangi	is the short answer
21:34	thd`	rangi: of course, but I meant update triggers for the database etc.
21:34	ashimema	z3950/SRU is what zebra is built for.. we may as well keep using it for that ;)
21:34	ashimema	at least in the medium term.
21:34	rangi	yeah, kaizen :)
21:34	rangi	i figure small incremental improvements are easier to test, and less likely to bustinate everything
21:35	rangi	the indexer is very simple, at the moment is marc only, but would be able to be other documents with minor changes
21:35	ashimema	any comments on abstraction rangi.. is it likely we'll be ableto use this work to 'plug in' other indexers in the future via writing a 'driver'..
21:35	rangi	probably not
21:36	rangi	i think that abstraction can actually make it more obtuse and slow
21:36	rangi	http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?[…]4a0eca7d58ea685b4 <-- indexer
21:36	ashimema	fair point.
21:36	thd`	gmcharlt: At the last Kohacon hackfest the issue of some shared work between Koha and Evergreen in relation to search was discussed.
21:36	gmcharlt	rangi: ashimema: well that's a relief -- I was worried that we'd never have anything to talk about on koha-devel
21:36		nengard left #koha
21:36	rangi	heh
21:37	gmcharlt	now I know we're set for life! ;)
21:37	rangi	we could make Koha::Indexer
21:37	gmcharlt	thd`: the context was most likely QueryParser
21:37	rangi	which abstracts over Koha::ElasticSearch::Indexer
21:37	gmcharlt	I repeat, I know of no serious thoughts about changing Evergreen's search engine at present
21:38	ashimema	QueryParser was going to be my next question.. in that. how does it fit in in the scheme of things with ES?
21:38	thd`	gmcharlt: Was the consideration of shared work merely for the user interface parser to which any backend system could be used?
21:38	rangi	id like that to abstract over Koha::ElasticSearch::Search
21:38	rangi	http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?[…]4a0eca7d58ea685b4 <-- so tiny and cute
21:39	gmcharlt	well, in QP-speak it woudl be more likely a driver that translates to ES queries
21:39	rangi	yeah that :)
21:39	ashimema	yeah.. that's what I meant..
21:39	ashimema	;)
21:39	ashimema	thanks gmcharlt
21:39	gmcharlt	but unless you are about to tell me that ES uses ASN.666/BER, we're probably OK ;)
21:40	rangi	nope
21:40	rangi	its super simple
21:40	cait	so we could use query parser to translate searches into elastic search searches?
21:40	* ashimema	clueless again :$
21:40	* cait	tries to follow
21:41	gmcharlt	#link http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?[…]ds/elastic_search
21:41	rangi	yes thats the plan
21:42	rangi	http://search.cpan.org/~drtech[…].pm#Query_methods
21:42	rangi	if you are interested
21:42	rangi	#info we plan to have a demo in time for the hackfest
21:42	cait	very cool
21:42	cait	totally curious :)
21:43	rangi	its a well documented module, which is very handy
21:44	rangi	thats about all i have
21:45	cait	rangi++ eythian++
21:45	ashimema	++
21:45	rangi	i feel like it will make life a lot better for the future and help with our move from MARC
21:45	* ashimema	best go read the manual
21:45	bag	here - sorry to be late
21:45	gmcharlt	OK, next topic
21:45	mtompset	actually... how does all this search stuff related to facets showing or not showing?
21:46	gmcharlt	#topic DBIx::Class
21:46		Topic for #koha is now DBIx::Class (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC)
21:46	bag	ah I have something to add about Zebra - when it's back to that subject
21:46	gmcharlt	oh, OK :)
21:46	gmcharlt	#topic Searching
21:46		Topic for #koha is now Searching (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC)
21:46	gmcharlt	bag go for it
21:46	ashimema	:)
21:47	bag	I've talked with gmcharlt and rangi about this. but we've seen zebra fast indexing - when it's doing a merge
21:47	bag	uses 100% of the I/O
21:47	bag	just at that spot
21:47	thd`	Even with MARC, anything which scales better is an advantage.
21:47	bag	rangi or gmcharlt please feel free to say what I said more gracefully
21:47	rangi	yeah, it becomes I/O bound on the merge step
21:48	eythian_	a merge will use a ton of IO, because it's beating up on the disk.
21:48	ashimema	yup.. we've seen that too bag
21:48	gmcharlt	and at present nobody's yet dived deep enough into the code to see if it can be readily remedied
21:48	bag	we've done some testing and can only confirm that if you have mysql on the same disk then everything freezes for a bit
21:48	eythian_	a workaround would be to run it with ionice so that other things get priority.
21:49	gmcharlt	indeed
21:49	thd`	What are the conditions under which a merge happens with Zebra?
21:49	gmcharlt	(and separating out I/O for DB vs. everything else is often a good idea for large installations)
21:49	eythian_	or have your DB on another server. I've also been meaning to look into having zebra on its own server, but haven't really had the need.
21:49	bag	thd`: fast indexing - once you are TRYing to add to an index that is already created
21:50	rangi	chunking the merges into smaller bits may be a solution too
21:50	rangi	but not sure
21:50	wajasu	maybe some unix command like renice or ionice can bind the IO for that process. - just a guess
21:51		bshum joined #koha
21:51	bag	rangi we've seen it with merges as little of 100 records
21:51	gmcharlt	well, if it turns out to help, ionice could be incorporated into the script that launches rebuild_zebra.pl easily enough
21:51	rangi	bag: maybe not then, darn
21:51	rangi	gmcharlt: thats definitely worth trying
21:51	bag	good thought - let's get a bug for that
21:51	rangi	bag++ #pie
21:51	gmcharlt	bag: rangi: zebraidx may end up doing index rebalancing regardless of the size of the merge, perhaps
21:52	bag	heh
21:52	eythian_	totally trivial to test, too.
21:52	bag	gmcharlt++
21:52	gmcharlt	bag++
21:52	cait	bag++ gmcharlt++
21:52	gmcharlt	of course, here's a crazy thought:
21:52	gmcharlt	store the zebra files on a ramdisk
21:53	bag	we've gotten around it by getting mysql on a different disk than zebra idx
21:53	rangi	hmm thats not that crazy
21:53	eythian_	could have problems when they get large, also having to do a full rebuild on boot could take a long time.
21:53	bag	but I'm not sure everyone could afford such a thing
21:53	rangi	yeah
21:53	gmcharlt	eythian_: yeah, that's the obvious tradeoff
21:54	gmcharlt	of course, one could s/ramdisk/SSD/, but that still involves expense
21:54	rangi	you could index on another machine
21:54	eythian_	I do think splitting the disks for the different things could be considered a best practice though.
21:54	rangi	and rsync
21:54	thd`	gmcharlt: If something like rebalancing is happening then the process should be batched to cron for late at night.
21:54	rangi	that may still i/o bind you
21:54	gmcharlt	indexing but once a data is a non-starter for general use
21:54	gmcharlt	*once a day
21:54	eythian_	thd`: then you don't have updates in near realtime
21:55	bag	eythian_: best practice yes - but may not be possible for all people installing koha
21:55	thd`	eythian_: Yes but a non-thrashing system is important.
21:55	ashimema	I've dabbled with sticing indexes on ssd whilst everything else is on hdd.. it 'felt' quicker, but I ran out of time to really benchmark it properly
21:55	eythian_	bag: yep. I'd slap an ionice in front of the rebuild command, see if that helps to start with.
21:55	mtompset	bag++ #pie
21:55	mtompset	gmcharlt++
21:56	gmcharlt	bag: is there a bug yet?
21:56	bag	I don't know gmcharlt
21:57	gmcharlt	if not, please file one -- I can't think of a better place at moment to aggregate informatino about zebraidx I/O perofrmance
21:57	bag	if I don't find it - I will create one
21:57	gmcharlt	thanks
21:57	gmcharlt	and now I really will change topics
21:57	gmcharlt	#topic DBIx::Class
21:57		Topic for #koha is now DBIx::Class (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC)
21:57	bag	thanks
21:57	gmcharlt	to summarize the discussion this morning
21:57	gmcharlt	there's some pending disagreement about appropriate use of DBIC
21:58	gmcharlt	with opinions essentially ranging between using the DBIC schema classes as is, and only adding additional layers of abstraction where absolutely needed -- representing bib records is one example
21:58	gmcharlt	versus wrapping an layer over DBIC objects across the board
21:59	gmcharlt	and enforcing non-DBIC in the .pl files
21:59	gmcharlt	I hope I've represented the range fairly
21:59	ashimema	that about covers the conversation from earlier gmcharlt
21:59	* cait	agrees
21:59	rangi	right
22:00	gmcharlt	my personal view is the former
22:00	gmcharlt	given that there's a lot of places that simply need to shovel data from DB to presentation
22:01	wajasu	and i wanted to get tests written across the data access layer, possibly with NYTProf stats.
22:01	gmcharlt	and other record types where only a few suplemntary methods would need to be added to the schema classes
22:01	mtompset	Well, what was the purpose of bringing in the DBIC schema classes into Koha? Was it not DB-agnosticism?
22:01	gmcharlt	I had made an action item for myself to write up some examples
22:01	rangi	i agree
22:02	gmcharlt	but I would appreciate if otehr folks would take up a small bit of functionality and also do some experimentation
22:02	rangi	there is some in the elastic search stuff
22:02		larryb joined #koha
22:03	gmcharlt	one thing that seems reasonably clear to me, for example, is that adding some syntax sugar to concisely fetch a object of the appropriate schema type given a known idea would be nicer than Koha::Database->...->rs()
22:03	rangi	yep
22:03	wajasu	i did run Test:DBIx:Class::Schema against your master last week and it all ran through.
22:03	rangi	sweet
22:03	rangi	http://blogs.perl.org/users/ov[…]design-flaws.html
22:03	rangi	this is worth reading too
22:03	gmcharlt	mtompset: DB-agnosticism, entering the OO-age, and reducing the need for manually-written SQL
22:04	gmcharlt	but none of that is affected by the current discussion about how to structure use of DBIC
22:04	rangi	exacterly
22:04	cait	i think examples would be great
22:04	* ashimema	looks forward to some examples that fall into the two camps.
22:05	ashimema	cait.. you beat me to it again.
22:05	cait	it didn't look too had when you showed us a bit at kohacon... but i haven't had a chance to look at it since
22:05	mtompset	cait++ # always on the ball.
22:05	cait	too hard...
22:06	gmcharlt	OK, moving on
22:06	larryb	apologies for joining late, but I wanted to throw out a comment regarding the index rebuild disk IO problem
22:06	gmcharlt	#topic Pending Large Enhancements
22:06		Topic for #koha is now Pending Large Enhancements (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC)
22:06	gmcharlt	larryb: please hold a few minutes if you don't mind
22:07	larryb	sure gmcharlt
22:07	gmcharlt	by large enhancements, I'm basically looking for works-in-progress that are hoped to make it in for 3.16 or 3.18, but which are not necessarily visible enough
22:07	gmcharlt	and which are large enough or world-changing enough that a lot of special work may be required of the testers
22:07	gmcharlt	the ones I know of include:
22:08	gmcharlt	- ES
22:08	gmcharlt	- the new cataloging editor
22:08	bag	pianohacker: you here?
22:08	* ashimema	hides.. it's at this point I brought up the logging bug in the last meeting
22:08	pianohacker	yo
22:08	gmcharlt	- Joobu's column-management stuff
22:08	rangi	im pretty sure i wrote a patch using log4perl that did that, but i cant remember
22:08	bag	alright if peeps have questions for pianohacker's rancor for large enhancements
22:08	rangi	heres something to look at
22:09	gmcharlt	particularly given the recent discusssions on the mailing list about ES, I want to make sure that we don't have folks quietly working on stuff
22:09	rangi	bag: for pianohacker http://holloway.github.io/doctored/
22:09	jcamins	rangi: it's on the logging bug as an attachment.
22:09	* cait	promises not to quietly work on world changing things :)
22:09	ashimema	rangi: yeah, you did.. there's a passed qa bug that's really still in discussion.. hotely debated earlier
22:09	rangi	click on document, then switch the schema to marc21
22:09	* bag	has trouble being quiet :P
22:09	francharb_afk	bye all
22:10	eythian_	ashimema: what is the logging bug?
22:10	bag	ah pianohacker you catch that link from rangi ?
22:10	rangi	ive been working on NCIP stuff, its kinda aside to Koha
22:10	ashimema	we're working on a refactoring of borrower_imports, ColinC and I are trying to get EDI back on the playing field and i'm not sure where housebound is at from our front..
22:10	rangi	ie its not going to be committed to Koha
22:10	* ashimema	thanks cait for reminding him about those
22:10	pianohacker	rangi: yup, taking a look at it, very interesting
22:11	ashimema	we're also working on ILL
22:11	bag	ashimema: I'm very interested in the edi work - we've been using the stuff already submitted and not sure how much we've changed
22:11	rangi	http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?[…]ver.git;a=summary <-- here
22:11	rangi	and
22:11	ashimema	eythian_: bug 8190
22:11	huginn`	Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8190 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Passed QA , Add a logging module to Koha
22:11	rangi	http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?p=NCIPServer.git
22:12	gmcharlt	ashimema: say more about ILL?
22:12	eythian_	oh, I was thinking there was a bug in koha about logging :)
22:12	ashimema	bag: I've spoken to khall about it.. we're on good ground with it at the moment between us.
22:12	bag	awesome
22:12	ashimema	should be a new patch shortly.. much cleaner and easier to maintain.
22:13	bag	communication++
22:13	cait	communication++
22:13	ashimema	gmcharlt: ILL is not my baby i'm afraid.. colinc and mark have been working on it.. I believe it's currenty going through some refactoring to meet 3.16 guidlines
22:13	ashimema	communication++
22:14	gmcharlt	ashimema: pointers to more information would be great, if you wouldn't mind poking them
22:14	pianohacker	I can make a patch series fairly soon, but I'm curious as to what sort of functionality would be necessary for a first series; it can save to the catalog, edit existing editors, search, etc.
22:14	ashimema	i've also got a rotating collections (of european style) under development.. but that won't be ready for a while...
22:14	gmcharlt	it edits editors? wow! ;)
22:14	ashimema	it's more thought than code at the mo.
22:15	ashimema	i'll poke gmcharlt
22:15	pianohacker	oh dangit
22:15	pianohacker	*edit existing gmcharlts
22:15	cait	pianohacker: waht i wondered - is rancor next to the existing interface for now or trying to replace?
22:15	gmcharlt	pianohacker: permission denied
22:15	gmcharlt	;)
22:15	bag	pianohacker: you are editing gmcharlt
22:16	pianohacker	sudo rancor gmcharlt
22:16	gmcharlt	pianohacker: the functions you've outlined (save to catalog, edit exiting records, and seach) sound plenty for a first cut
22:16	ashimema	not 100% sure how current this is.. but colins ILL branch is at: https://github.com/colinsc/koha/tree/ill_wip
22:16	pianohacker	cait: Stay next to; the old editor is intended to stay around as a basic editor
22:16	gmcharlt	I really want something out there for folks to be actively testing outside of your demo environemtn
22:16	cait	pianohacker: glad to hear that :)
22:16	ashimema	it's been on hold for a few months with other priorities taking hold
22:16	cait	we have small libraries not used to marc21
22:17	bag	cool pianohacker submit some basics :)
22:17	pianohacker	Yes, definitely. I'm working on polishing up the fixed field stuff a bit then I'll send it out
22:17	bag	before marseille hackfest?
22:17	cait	if it is next to existing, it could maybe be experimental
22:17	cait	and if it's not messing up data :)
22:18	bag	yes don't submit anything that messes up data
22:18	bag	:)
22:18	cait	:)
22:18	pianohacker	yes, either this week or early next week
22:18	bag	thanks :)
22:18	gmcharlt	great
22:19	gmcharlt	OK
22:19	pianohacker	And it _should_ round trip cleanly, doesn't try to do anything fancy with whitespace or anything like that, and should be UTF-8 clean; are there any other likely issues?
22:19	gmcharlt	pianohacker: eh, making sure it doesn't trim leading/trailing whitespace unexpectedly
22:19	cait	pianohacker: translations? hides
22:19	gmcharlt	e.g., from the fixed fields and the 010$a
22:19	gmcharlt	ah, yes - i18n
22:19	bag	cait let's talk about that and work on that at the hackfest
22:19	pianohacker	gmcharlt: Yup, the LCCN was one of my concerns
22:20	pianohacker	cait: I'm working hard to make it translatable, don't worry :)
22:20	gmcharlt	#topic Next meeting
22:20		Topic for #koha is now Next meeting (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC)
22:20	bag	cait everything I've seen so far - isn't bad for translations
22:20	gmcharlt	tenatively, a follow-up meeting has been agreed to
22:20	gmcharlt	two-part like today, at 15UTC/21UTC on 12 March 2014
22:20	gmcharlt	+1/-1 ?
22:20	wahanui	-1
22:21	wajasu	we also mentioned in prior meeting for ICU to maybe be the default for zebra.
22:21	gmcharlt	right
22:21	rangi	+1
22:22	pianohacker	+1
22:22	cait	+1 # does it count again?
22:22	eythian_	+1
22:22	gmcharlt	cait: stop stuffing the ballot box ;)
22:22	cait	sorry....:)
22:22	gmcharlt	but seriously
22:22	gmcharlt	#agreed Next dev meeting will be at 15UTC/21UTC on 12 March 2014 (pending confirmation from the second half of today's meeting)
22:23	bag	+1 and good timing - during the hackfest
22:23	gmcharlt	er
22:23	gmcharlt	#agreed Next dev meeting will be at 15UTC/21UTC on 12 March 2014 (achivement unlocked: confirmation!)
22:23	gmcharlt	#endmeeting
22:23		Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha - this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software http://koha-community.org. Koha 3.14.3 is the latest release! The next general IRC meeting is on 5 March 2014 18:00 UTC.
22:23	huginn`	Meeting ended Tue Feb 25 22:23:25 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
22:23	huginn`	Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community[…]-02-25-21.01.html
22:23	huginn`	Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]4-02-25-21.01.txt
22:23	huginn`	Log: http://meetings.koha-community[…]25-21.01.log.html
22:24	cait	thx gmcharlt :)
22:24	bag	larryb: you still here
22:24	larryb	I am
22:24	bag	let's grab eythian_ and gmcharlt while they are still listening
22:24	bag	and rangi
22:24	bag	yes yes and the rest of you all too :)
22:24	bag	heh
22:24	* eythian_	can't stay too long, I need to go to work soon, but I can be here for a few minutes or so.
22:24	larryb	it was suggested earlier that we use ionice on the rebuild_zebra cron, do prevent the disk IO freeze-up
22:25	larryb	I've already tried that, using ionice -c 2 -n 7 -t
22:25	wajasu	if you index on a filesystem separate from others, you might look at changing some async, noatime, etc options.
22:25	larryb	unfortunately it didn't help
22:25	gmcharlt	larryb: to clarify, it didn't help in that other processes were visibily blocked?
22:26	larryb	using ionice on the rebuild did not help, the system still froze up
22:26	eythian_	larryb: wouldn't -c 3 be better?
22:26	larryb	that's why I posted the settings I used.
22:26	larryb	to see if there were any suggestions for altering them
22:26	gmcharlt	yeah, definitely trice -c 3
22:26	larryb	I wasn't sure I wanted to go all the way to -c
22:27	gmcharlt	*try
22:27	eythian_	though it would slow down rebuilding
22:27	larryb	yeah, but we already use flock on it, so we don't have a problem with stacking rebuilds
22:27	* mtompset	waves bye.
22:28	larryb	for some sites we've gone as far as to turn rebuilding the in the afternoon, so a slower rebuild, if it doesn't freeze up the system, would be an improvement
22:28	mtompset	Have a great day, #koha. :)
22:28	eythian_	you could also try nicing the rebuild process a bit.
22:28	larryb	edit "turn rebuilding off in the afternoon"
22:29		maximep left #koha
22:29	larryb	I can test ionice with -c 3 and see how much longer it takes for the same number of updates
22:30	larryb	eythian_ would nicing rebuild really help much if we're already ionicing it?
22:30	eythian_	it might, it might not, I don't really know :)
22:30	larryb	the problem doesn't seem to be the priority of the process, but just the disk IO
22:31	wajasu	another option may be cgroups, if that is on your debian. http://www.janoszen.com/2013/0[…]groups-explained/
22:31		NateC joined #koha
22:31	wajasu	http://fritshoogland.wordpress[…]ng-io-with-linux/
22:31	larryb	I'll check those out. thanks wajasu
22:32	* eythian_	has to go now, I'll be back on in ~30 minutes or so.
22:34	thd`	rangi: Are you still here?
22:35	rangi	yep, working on ncip
22:35	thd`	gmcharlt had requested a topic focus so I had not continued earlier ...
22:36	thd`	rangi: You had mention Koha's unusual use of a persistent connection with Zebra.
22:37	thd`	The degree of persistence may certainly be unusual but one can err in the other direction.
22:38		larryb left #koha
22:38	mtj	hey larryb , bag - re: the zebra disk problem, does moving zebra's /tmp dir to a ramdisk/ssd help things?
22:39	thd`	rangi: My guess about the reason which the BibLibre Simple Server implementation never worked for me is that it would drop the connection before I could complete all the aspects of my request and obtain a final result set.
22:39	mtj	i'm guessing the big IO is on the actual zebra index files, not any /tmp/* stuff
22:39		ashimema joined #koha
22:39	bag	mtj: we haven't seen any problems with creating the /tmp files
22:39	ashimema	ack.. connection died.. meeting still going on?
22:39	bag	it's the actual merge of the .idx that causes the crazy I/O
22:39	bag	ashimema: it's over brah
22:39	mtj	yeah, okâ€¦ :/
22:39	bag	sorry :)
22:39	ashimema	coolios.
22:40	bag	but mtj is here and he loves to talk :D
22:40	ashimema	i can go to bed then ;)
22:40	cait	night ashimema :)
22:40	ashimema	night cait..
22:40	bag	night night ashimema
22:40	ashimema	lol.. night all
22:41	mtj	bag, i guess you might need to resort to LVM to 'manage' system IO betterâ€¦?
22:42	bag	so mtj it's not so much of a problem for us - we just split zebra on a different disk - I'm just worried about the koha systems that can't afford to have two disks etc....
22:42	mtj	which is a pretty big hassle for the average library :/
22:42	mtj	yeah :/
22:43	bag	so this has to be known for all of us :D
22:43	mtj	i have bumped into problems with zebra-indexing locking up the system, under load
22:44		dcook joined #koha
22:44	mtj	moving zebra to a new disk, fixed the problem nicely
22:45	mtj	using an SSD would sort that problem, even better
22:46	mtj	so, $100 for a 100GB SSD disk = problem solved :)
22:46		JesseM joined #koha
22:47	* mtj	puts a positive spin on the problem :)
22:47	rhcl	bag: more specifically are you putting mysql on a separate disk and/or only zebra?
22:47	mtj	afaik only zebra ^^
22:49	mtj	bag, i guess if you system is busy enough to have a 'problematic' merge load, you can afford the SSD disk :p
22:49	mtj	amirite?
22:49	wahanui	http://zork.net/~spork/amirite.pdf
22:50	* dcook	catches up on the logs
22:50		papa joined #koha
22:54	mtj	i really thought ionice would have worked fine, on the zebra problem
22:55	rhcl	I wonder if it happens enough to be regarded as a class-action problem?
22:58	mtj	rhcl, curious, what is class-action?
22:59		Dyrcona joined #koha
22:59	rhcl	ah, derrivation of US legal term meaning "broad problem"
22:59	rhcl	I abused the term a bit
23:06	eythian	hi
23:06	wahanui	que tal, eythian
23:07	eythian	seen tcohen
23:07	wahanui	tcohen was last seen on #koha 5 hours, 5 minutes and 11 seconds ago, saying: bye #koha [Tue Feb 25 18:02:08 2014]
23:07	eythian	@later tell tcohen I can take a look, though I can't promise I'll be useful :) where do I find it?
23:07	huginn`	eythian: The operation succeeded.
23:16		NateC joined #koha
23:16		cait left #koha
23:46	dcook	hehe

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