IRC log for #koha, 2014-02-25

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:10 maximep left #koha
00:23 rocio left #koha
02:12 rangi gmcharlt is on the case
02:16 dcook ?
02:16 rangi
02:16 wahanui i think is actually updated and right
02:23 dcook I would write the question mark again but I'll just smile and nod :p
02:24 irma joined #koha
02:45 brendan_ joined #koha
02:57 aleisha joined #koha
03:19 dbs @wunder p3e2c6
03:19 huginn` dbs: The current temperature in Hwy 69 @ Richard Lake, Sudbury, Ontario is -15.0°C (10:10 PM EST on February 24, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: -999%. Dew Point: -60.0°C. Windchill: -20.0°C. Pressure: 30.03 in 1017 hPa (Rising).
03:20 dbs Humidity -999% eh? Wow.
03:21 dcook Sudbury, eh?
03:21 rangi @wunder nzwn
03:22 huginn` rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 18.0°C (4:00 PM NZDT on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 64%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady).
03:22 dcook I probably knew that...that's neat
03:22 dcook @wunder sydney, australia
03:22 huginn` dcook: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 28.0°C (2:00 PM EST on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 42%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Steady).
03:22 dcook Sounds about right..
03:22 dcook dbs: -15 wouldn't be so bad about now..
03:23 * dbs occasionally wonders why he is in Sudbury, when he has been to Sydney and Brisbane... but he does love winter sports
03:24 dbs dcook: yes, I'll take cold over heat :)
03:24 dcook Some nice bush around Sudbury, iirc. Good times snow shoeing and sledding.
03:25 dcook Well, that was more so over by North Bay, but close enough
03:25 dbs dcook: I'm not into the motorized side of things, but there's great mountain biking trails around here which make me very happy
03:25 dbs close enough indeed :)
03:26 dcook Once upon a time, I thought about looking for library work around Sudbury. Glad to know there was good company!
03:29 dbs There are those who will argue about how "good" my company is :)
03:31 dcook Oh, I'm a total bastard, so no worries there :p
03:32 rangi i call bs
03:34 dcook Sometimes I forget that I'm remarkably open on Facebook
03:34 * dcook tries to hide all the cute cat photos
03:34 rangi heh
03:34 mtompset_away joined #koha
03:35 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
03:37 rangi aleisha++ # coming in to catalyst after school to sign off patches (just signed one off now)
03:37 aleisha :)
03:38 dcook aleisha++
03:39 rangi @karma aleisha
03:39 huginn` rangi: Karma for "aleisha" has been increased 2 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 2.
03:43 dcook I should decrease my karma sometime or really start testing more...
03:57 brendan_ joined #koha
03:57 ibeardslee excellent
03:58 ibeardslee not dcook decreasing his kamra, aleisha coming in to Catalyst
03:58 dcook hehe
03:58 dcook I wasn't going to jump to any conclusions :p
04:11 mtompset But jumping to conclusions is crazy fun, dcook. :P
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05:26 cait joined #koha
05:26 mtompset dcook: signed off 11575 for you. :)
05:27 mtompset Greetings, cait.
05:27 cait morning
05:29 mtompset I tried duplicating your <TEST> problem, cait, and couldn't. Sorry.
05:29 cait ?
05:29 cait bug 11575
05:29 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11575 normal, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Signed Off , OPACBaseURL sometimes set by ENV variable and not system preference
05:29 * mtompset tries to remember the bug cait posted.
05:30 mtompset 11741
05:30 cait bug 11741
05:30 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11741 normal, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Needs Signoff , < > not displaying correctly in XSLT result list
05:30 cait did you use the -x switch for indexing?
05:30 mtompset Yes.
05:30 mtompset Though, I suspect it might be a data entry thing.
05:31 cait i don't think so
05:31 mtompset I entered the record under MASTER.
05:31 cait i did as well
05:31 cait tcohen could reproduce
05:31 mtompset and then switching to 3.6, 3.8, 3.10, 3.12, and 3.14 I couldnt get it to display weird.
05:31 mtompset There must be other system preferences to set.
05:34 cait you checked the results list?
05:34 mtompset Hmmm... I'll try again... I only had it going straight to detail, because I only have one seuss record. :)
05:35 cait detail is fine, it's only the result list
05:35 cait because both use data from diffrent places
05:35 cait but my patch probably won't make it in I think - it's patching it up, but not really fixing it
05:36 cait not fixing the problem at its source
05:36 cait i jsut got up... i might not make sense
05:37 mtompset cait: If the other fix line made it into master, then I think your two lines should.
05:37 cait well if it's signed off we can find out ;)
05:37 mtompset I'm trying to replicate the problem.
05:37 mtompset Since you said it was results. I just tweaked an entry.
05:37 mtompset And am reindexing.
05:41 mtompset okay... master ok... changing to 3.12.x
05:42 cait it's in master too, really
05:42 cait i filed the bug against master
05:42 mtompset Nope... works fine.
05:42 cait how did you reindex?
05:43 mtompset .../ -b -a -r -x -v
05:43 cait and you are looking at the result list?
05:43 mtompset I typed fancy into the search text box and clicked go.
05:43 mtompset and it's the first entry.
05:44 cait hmm interesting
05:44 wahanui interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
05:44 mtompset Is this Ubuntu or Debian?
05:44 cait tested on both
05:44 cait debian at work ubuntu at home
05:44 mtompset same problem on both?
05:44 cait yep
05:45 cait and tcohen could reproduce as well
05:45 mtompset which zebra version are you using?
05:45 cait i should ask him how far he got digging
05:46 cait what is packaged i would say
05:46 cait 2.0.44
05:47 * mtompset shrugs.
05:47 mtompset Well, I can't exactly sign something off based on my eyeball of it.
05:48 cait it's ok
05:48 cait just leave it
05:48 mtompset Just annoying, because it is a nice tiny patch which should be easy to sign off.
05:48 cait i am too tired to figure out what hte difference is really
05:48 cait i need at least another hour before my brain wakes up
05:49 dcook Thanks, mtompset :)
05:49 * dcook was going to test something but then got distracted by local stuff..
05:55 cait thx for testing mtompset :)
05:55 mtompset I tried.
05:56 mtompset I've fallen a bit behind having been sick, and losing funding. :(
05:56 cait could you try a las tthing? leaving out the -a of the indexing command, just doing bibliographic?
06:00 mtompset Okay... leaving out -a.
06:01 mtompset how do I generate invoices?
06:01 cait you receive something in acq
06:01 cait the invoice will be generated then
06:03 mtompset ah... there.
06:04 mtompset reindexing stilll.... *whistles*
06:05 mtompset Nope... works fine.
06:05 cait ok
06:05 cait thx
06:09 mtompset the whole invoicing thing is a weird mess.
06:11 cait it's acq.
06:21 mtompset Well, okay... Acquisitions is a whole mess.
06:21 mtompset I know nothing of the process, and it was weird to see the things I had to click to get things to do what I needed for testing.
06:22 mtompset This can't possibly reflect the way people think about the process in reality.
06:29 dcook I don't suppose anyone has noticed this error: "Barcode generation failed for item %s with this error: %s" when trying to print barcode labels?
06:30 dcook mtompset: Acquisitions is always horrifying in libraries.
06:30 * dcook has worked in libraries for 7-8 years and has found this to always be true.
06:40 mtompset is report 21 one of the default sample reports?
06:40 dcook \o/
06:41 * dcook dances around a bit
06:41 dcook Turns out that Code39 is case sensitive
06:41 dcook[…]e-0.05/
06:41 * dcook was wondering why a "b" was causing an invalid character exception...
06:42 * magnuse waves
06:42 laurence joined #koha
06:44 dcook yo, magnuse
06:44 dcook salut laurence
06:44 laurence salut dcook
06:46 cait mtompset: there are no default sample reports
06:46 mtompset Ah. Thanks, cait.
06:48 mtompset There... now, three more sign offs later, and I'll be back to where I'm happy. :)
06:50 mtompset magnuse: You snuck in! Greetings.
06:50 mtompset Greetings, laurence.
06:51 laurence hi mtompset
06:52 mtompset Hmmm... Julian Maurice is Biblibre too, right?
06:52 cait yep
06:53 dcook BibLibre is everywhere ;)
06:53 mtompset I was wondering if someone from Biblibre could take a look at my revision patch on bug 6874. It's the only thing needing sign off on this bug that seemed to start from Biblibre.
06:53 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , File upload in MARC
06:54 mtompset Because that would be a nice feature to get into 3.16
06:59 mtompset Anyways... I best take off. I need to get rest.
06:59 mtompset Have a great day, cait dcook magnuse laurence #koha.
07:23 dpk joined #koha
07:31 cait running out of time :(
07:31 cait bye all
07:32 wajasu joined #koha
07:33 reiveune joined #koha
07:33 reiveune hello
07:33 wahanui hola, reiveune
07:58 mayank joined #koha
07:59 Joubu joined #koha
07:59 Joubu salut
07:59 wahanui bidet, Joubu
08:02 * magnuse waves again
08:02 magnuse @wunder boo
08:02 huginn` magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 5.0°C (8:50 AM CET on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Light Rain Showers. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 4.0°C. Windchill: -1.0°C. Pressure: 29.56 in 1001 hPa (Rising).
08:02 magnuse @wunder marseille
08:02 huginn` magnuse: The current temperature in Realtor, CABRIES, France is 6.8°C (9:02 AM CET on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: 2.0°C. Windchill: 5.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady).
08:03 matts hi !
08:07 gaetan_B joined #koha
08:08 gaetan_B hello
08:12 magnuse bonjour!
08:13 magnuse dev meeting in 6
08:13 magnuse hours
08:13 magnuse 46
08:13 magnuse minutes
08:13 magnuse 12
08:13 magnuse seconds
08:14 magnuse oops
08:22 paul_p joined #koha
08:24 magnuse kia ora paul_p
08:26 paul_p 'morning magnuse
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08:49 Joubu Marcel around?
08:59 cait joined #koha
08:59 huginn` GERMS!!!!
08:59 wahanui germs is probably
08:59 cait good morning #koha and wahanui
09:03 ashimema mornin' cait et al'
09:05 ashimema worth putting the dev meeting in the motd?
09:06 ashimema #meetings
09:07 cait hm thnk it would be a good idea but not sure how to
09:15 gaetan_B which is the webservice koha actually uses to fetch covers from amazon ?
09:15 gaetan_B is it this one :
09:15 gaetan_B https://affiliate-program.amaz[…]/detail/main.html  ?
09:18 clrh hello
09:18 wahanui hello, clrh
09:30 Joubu1 joined #koha
09:35 magnuse gaetan_B: i think koha just constructs URLs for the images, there is no webservice as such
09:37 magnuse gaetan_B: <img src="[% itemsloo.normalized_isbn %].01.TZZZZZZZ.jpg" alt="" class="thumbnail" />
09:37 magnuse that sort of thing
09:54 gaetan_B magnuse: hmm so we're not using a webservice or an api ?
09:54 gaetan_B does that mean we are not sticking to any TOS ?
09:56 clrh joined #koha
10:17 magnuse gaetan_B: i think it's sort of a grey area...
10:20 magnuse there is some discussion about it on bugzilla, but i'm not sure exactly where...
10:25 barton morning all
10:26 petter joined #koha
10:26 petter Hi Koha!
10:27 magnuse hiya petter!
10:27 magnuse and hiya barton
10:40 magnuse petter++ for the RFID RFC
10:41 petter thanks, I'm not sure there are any other libraries with needs like us..
10:41 petter But hopefully if we get some feedback we can improve the solution
10:50 tcohen joined #koha
11:02 cait hi petter :)
11:02 cait when do you arrive on Sunday?
11:06 cait petter: I am trying to organize dinner für the early arriving
11:06 * ashimema now wishes he was arriving sunday too
11:07 cait just don't miss monday :)
11:09 ashimema I should be turning up before lunch on monday
11:10 magnuse just don't miss lunch ;-)
11:10 cait yep don't miss lunch
11:10 cait lebanese... i think
11:13 sophie_m hello #koha
11:16 sophie_m Are some of people coming to the hackfest in Marseille interested by a walk in "calanques" on Sunday (http://www.marvellous-provence[…]uth-of-marseille)
11:18 cait sophie_m: might be arriving too late for that :( 16:00
11:18 cait my coworker tells me every year to go there, but i never managed
11:21 sophie_m cait, paul_p is organising a diner where we can have a brief point of view. it's not the same as walking in it, but it could give you the taste for next time :-)
11:21 cait :) do you know when he plans to do it?
11:21 paul_p cait probably tuesday
11:22 cait ah hi paul_p
11:22 paul_p will send a mail soon about that
11:23 cait paul_p: :)
11:24 cait i think i might send a mail to the early arriving proposinga meeting point near the harbour
11:24 cait might be difficult to reach everyonee otherwise - but probably next week - ideas welcome :)
11:27 cait sophie_m: when where you thinking for the walk?
11:30 ashimema anyone know where the stuff that i a dev install ends up in kohaclone/installer/ goes in a packages install..
11:30 ashimema I was hoping to grab some of the default sql to post fill frameworks on my system.
11:31 sophie_m cait: if possible in the morning. But I can adapt
11:32 cait ashimema: sorry, not sure about the paths there
11:32 ashimema hmm
11:32 cait sophie_m: my train is already booked, i won't be available before 5pm i think, so I will aim fo rmeeting people for dinner
11:33 sophie_m it's a good plan too :-)
11:33 cait :)
11:33 magnuse ashimema: try /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/installer/
11:34 magnuse (or e.g. "locate kohastructure.sql")
11:34 ashimema aha, magnuse your awsome.
11:34 ashimema of course.. why didn't I tihnk of 'locate'
11:34 magnuse :-)
11:34 ashimema brain is not good today.
11:34 * magnuse rewards himself with lunch
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12:21 jwagner joined #koha
12:21 * barton thinks that cait should alias 'locate' to 'locait'.
12:21 cait lol
12:23 ashimema :)
12:36 tcohen joined #koha
12:36 tcohen morning #koha
12:36 tcohen hi cait
12:44 meliss joined #koha
12:52 collum joined #koha
12:53 tcohen anyone with experience maintaining a CPAN module?
12:53 tcohen fredericd?
12:53 wahanui fredericd is probably translation manager for 3.8
13:04 cait hi tcohen :)
13:06 tcohen hi cait
13:07 tcohen i can reproduce your problem (< >)
13:07 tcohen and your patch does the job
13:07 tcohen a proper solution would break people's Koha use
13:07 tcohen do u want me to sign it?
13:08 cait tcohen: i would be happy if you did
13:08 nlegrand joined #koha
13:08 nlegrand hey
13:09 cait and if you could add some notes why it would break other people't things
13:09 cait i think you know more about the problem right now than i do
13:09 tcohen we are doing ad-hoc fixes anyway
13:09 tcohen your patch doesn't hurt
13:10 cait yeah, we already do some ampersand magic
13:22 oleonard joined #koha
13:23 oleonard Hi #koha
13:26 NateC joined #koha
13:27 magnuse kia ora oleonard NateC
13:36 cait tcohen: grs1! the missing piece!
13:36 cait i really was too tired this morning it seems :)
13:41 fridolin joined #koha
13:41 fridolin hie all
13:42 tcohen hi fridolin
13:42 fridolin i'm releasing today 3.14.04
13:43 tcohen fridolin++
13:43 cait :)
13:45 ashimema fridolin++
13:45 ashimema damn.. that means my list of tasks just grew ;)
13:45 tcohen heh
13:46 Dyrcona joined #koha
13:52 magnuse fridolin++
13:52 magnuse dev meeting in 1 hour 7 minutes!
13:53 tcohen bug 11096
13:53 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11096 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Signed Off , Koha cannot retrieve big records from Zebra
13:53 * magnuse will miss the first one, maybe the second one too
14:03 francharb joined #koha
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14:03 francharb good morning #koha
14:04 magnuse hiya francharb and talljoy
14:04 talljoy hiya magnuse!
14:04 francharb o/ magnuse
14:04 druthb o/
14:04 talljoy hi druthb!
14:05 tcohen joined #koha
14:05 cait magnuse: ooh :(
14:15 rhcl @wunder 64507
14:15 huginn` rhcl: The current temperature in Wyatt Park, St Joseph, Missouri is -6.3°C (8:15 AM CST on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 78%. Dew Point: -10.0°C. Windchill: -6.0°C. Pressure: 30.38 in 1029 hPa (Rising).
14:15 rhcl -63°C     It's really cold out there. And it's snowing.
14:16 rhcl @wunder boo
14:16 huginn` rhcl: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 6.0°C (2:50 PM CET on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 2.0°C. Windchill: 2.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Rising).
14:16 rhcl Ah! Tropics in Norway.
14:16 rhcl @wunder konstanz
14:16 huginn` rhcl: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 8.0°C (3:00 PM CET on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 48%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Pressure: 29.99 in 1015 hPa (Falling).
14:16 oleonard @wunder 45701
14:16 huginn` oleonard: The current temperature in OHDOT 31-Athens County Garage, Athens, Ohio is -4.4°C (8:30 AM EST on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: -6.0°C. Windchill: -4.0°C. Pressure: 30.17 in 1022 hPa (Falling).
14:17 rhcl @wunder houston, tx
14:17 huginn` rhcl: The current temperature in SE-Svc-Cntr, Houston, Texas is 18.1°C (8:17 AM CST on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 99%. Dew Point: 18.0°C. Pressure: 30.05 in 1018 hPa (Steady). Dense fog advisory in effect until 10 am CST this morning...
14:18 rhcl is UP
14:19 tcohen yay!
14:19 magnuse yeah, it sure is warm up here
14:19 rhcl :)
14:20 magnuse we had snow on saturday and sunday, but now it's all gone
14:20 magnuse weekend snow - i can live with that :-)
14:21 ashimema tcohen++
14:22 ashimema didn't realise you maintained memoize?
14:22 tcohen i've just started heh
14:22 tcohen the owner gave me the rights to do it
14:22 tcohen so i've just patched an old deprecation bug it had
14:25 jenkins_koha Starting build #178 for job Koha_3.12.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
14:25 Joubu joined #koha
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14:27 Joubu y
14:28 cait hi Joubu :)
14:28 brendan_ joined #koha
14:28 tcohen hi Joubu
14:29 mayank1 joined #koha
14:29 Joubu I tested my 'y' key, it works great
14:29 tcohen i can confirm that Joubu
14:29 oleonard :)
14:30 Joubu thanks tcohen!
14:30 Joubu ;)
14:30 ashimema nice work! tcohen++ again
14:32 oleonard Shouldn't I be able to view the course reserves page even if I don't have permission to edit?
14:34 wajasu i think there is a syspref to turn it on.
14:36 cait y key passed QA :)
14:36 cait oleonard: if there is a sep permission, I'd think so
14:37 tcohen Joubu: hopefully gmcharlt will push it and we'll cherry-pick it for the stable keyboards
14:37 wajasu UseCourseReserves in circ preferences
14:37 ColinC joined #koha
14:37 oleonard wajasu: Right. If UseCourseReserves is enabled I would think one would be able to access course reserves even without permission to edit/delete/manage
14:38 magnuse tcohen++
14:38 gmcharlt @quote random
14:38 huginn` gmcharlt: Quote #43: "< Ropuch> Uh - beware of tea: it can burn your throat" (added by chris at 08:35 AM, October 30, 2009)
14:43 marcelr joined #koha
14:44 marcelr hi #koha
14:44 tcohen gmcharlt: is slow to update from what is uploaded to pause?
14:44 Joubu oleonard: did you understand my comment on 11718? I'm not sure it is understandable...
14:45 gmcharlt tcohen: I've seen it take anywhere between 1 and 4 hours
14:45 gmcharlt meeting in 15 minutes
14:45 tcohen oh, thanks gmcharlt. I should be patient then
14:45 tcohen :-D
14:45 oleonard Yes Joubu
14:46 Joubu oleonard: cool :)
14:46 wajasu oleonard: so you don't have read access as a non superlibrarian?  i have access in the OPAC to view as  a Patron(PT) without the special add/edit/delete perms
14:46 cait wajasu: I think oleonad meant the staff side
14:46 oleonard wajasu: I'm only talking about the staff client
14:47 peggy joined #koha
14:51 Joubu marcelr++ for the qa feedback on bug 9016!
14:51 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9016 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Multi transport types for notices
14:51 oleonard Joubu: Note that I didn't remove sorting from any columns in my patch for Bug 11718, I only added sorting on creation date
14:51 marcelr hi Joubu: will return to that later on.. :)
14:51 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11718 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Use new DataTables include in reports templates
14:52 wajasu did anyone bake cookies for the meeting?
14:53 * oleonard has Girl Scout cookies
14:53 cait oleonard: with lemon?
14:53 cait druthb has some with lemon....
14:53 oleonard I don't think I have any of those
14:53 cait what do you have?
14:54 gmcharlt Joubu: oleonard: marcelr: please note the follow-up on bug 10865
14:54 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10865 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, In Discussion , Don't show list permissions when adding public lists/sharing lists is not allowed
14:55 gmcharlt and, apparently, 18065 ;)
14:55 marcelr hi gmcharlt: will have a look soon
14:55 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.12.x build #178: SUCCESS in 33 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/Koha_3.12.x/178/
14:55 jenkins_koha * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Update release notes for 3.12.11 release
14:55 jenkins_koha * Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel: Translation updates for 3.12.11 release
14:55 jenkins_koha * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Increment version for 3.12.11 release
14:55 marcelr bug 18065 ? too high..
14:55 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=18065 was not found.
14:56 gmcharlt marcelr: yeah, I just noticed a typo in my follow-up patch to 10865, hence the joke about 18065
14:56 oleonard cait: Mint, peanut butter, and coconut cookies
14:56 marcelr gmcharlt: bug 10363 likes your comments too
14:56 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10363 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Failed QA , There is no package for authorised values.
14:56 cait mmmh coconut
14:57 cait i think we are ready for the meeting
14:57 marcelr koffie
14:57 ashimema you've made me hungry now cait.
14:57 cait :P
14:57 marcelr =coffee
14:57 * cait blames oleonard
14:57 marcelr good start
14:58 gmcharlt ok, may as well begin
14:59 gmcharlt #startmeeting Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC
14:59 huginn` Meeting started Tue Feb 25 14:59:17 2014 UTC.  The chair is gmcharlt. Information about MeetBot at
14:59 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:59 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC)
14:59 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'koha_dev_meeting__25_february_2014_15_00_utc'
14:59 gmcharlt #info Agenda[…]February_25,_2014
14:59 gmcharlt #topic Introductions
14:59 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
14:59 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC)
14:59 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries
14:59 marcelr #info Marcel de Rooy, Netherlands
14:59 gmcharlt #info gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, 3.16 RM, Equinox, USA
15:00 paul_p #info Paul Poulain, BibLibre
15:00 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe
15:00 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart, BibLibre, France
15:00 ColinC #info Colin Campbell PTFS-Europe
15:00 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ
15:00 rhcl #info rhcl = Greg Lawson, Rolling Hills Consolidated Library -ro
15:00 fredericd #info Frédéric Demians, Tamil
15:01 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
15:01 jajm #info Julian Maurice, BibLibre, France
15:02 matts #info Matthias Meusburger, Biblibre, France
15:02 slef #info MJ Ray,, England
15:03 gmcharlt OK, folks can continue to chime in as they arrive
15:03 gmcharlt first, some annouceents
15:03 gmcharlt #topic Announcements
15:03 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC)
15:04 gmcharlt #info gmcharlt will be clearing the passed QA queue prior to the beginning of the hackfest in Marseille
15:04 cait gmcharlt++ :)
15:04 maximep joined #koha
15:04 gmcharlt that means that I'm committing to push (or if need be in certain cases, reject) everything targetted for master  by then
15:04 ashimema gmcharlt++
15:04 gmcharlt to give a clear slate
15:05 paul_p gmcharlt++
15:05 slef #info the hackfest in Marseille is 10-14 March
15:05 gmcharlt after discussing this with cait, I'd like to request that for the next week, that QA team members focus on (1) needs-signoff and (2) kitten-rescue
15:05 paul_p gmcharlt what to you mean by "targetted for master" ?
15:05 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Universidad Nacional de Cordoba
15:05 gmcharlt paul_p: there are one or two in passed-QA that are targetted for maintenance branches
15:06 marcelr no further new qa's you mean?
15:06 gmcharlt a 3.8.x one, in fact, although I think khall tried applying it but ran into trouble with it
15:06 gmcharlt not sure of the details
15:06 gmcharlt marcelr: yes - let's say end of day tomorrow as a cutoff for new passed QA if you're in the middle of something?
15:06 cait gmcharlt:  I think continuing on things you are in the midst of should be ok, but not starting on new patches?
15:06 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 11803: use $dbh consistently in _koha_modify_item <[…]10f0be56b8805faeb>
15:07 gmcharlt are there any other announcements folks wish to make at this time?
15:07 cait i thik we can add another #agreed for the cutoff :)
15:07 cait or info
15:07 gmcharlt cait: go for it
15:08 cait #info end of tomorrow will be cutoff for new passed QA until the hackfest in Marseille, QA team to focus on sign offs and kitten rescue
15:08 paul_p gmcharlt = do you think you'll have time to deal with the 84 waiting patches before the hackfest ?
15:08 gmcharlt paul_p: it's going to be my sole focus for Koha work
15:08 jcamins #info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services
15:08 paul_p gmcharlt = would it be wise to start by new feature/enh ? so hackfest participant can concentrate on testing master ?
15:08 gmcharlt (unless security issues intervene)
15:09 gmcharlt paul_p: I'm going to be doing the small fry first, then go to enh
15:09 gmcharlt enh/new
15:10 gmcharlt i.e., oleonard's DataTables stuff won't take much time in any event
15:10 gmcharlt btw
15:10 jenkins_koha Starting build #362 for job master_maria (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:10 gmcharlt oleonard++ # cleanup wizard
15:10 cait oleonard++
15:10 gmcharlt the next thing I'm going to do is to toss out some general questions
15:10 cait #thx for adding consistency to everything
15:10 gmcharlt they do *not* require an immediate response
15:11 gmcharlt #topic RM questions
15:11 Topic for #koha is now RM questions (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC)
15:11 gmcharlt #info What is the state of UNIMARC/DOM Zebra indexing? Are UNIMARC users ready to adopt it?
15:11 gmcharlt #info How many folks are using QueryParser in production?
15:12 gmcharlt #info Is deprecating GRS-1 a viable option for 3.16?
15:12 paul_p gmcharlt = I'll add the unimarc topic for the hackfest. We will have many french unimarc librarians at hand to test ;-)
15:12 gmcharlt paul_p++
15:12 marcelr anyone using SRU with DOM indexing ?
15:12 cait paul_p: my impression was there are still some bugs to shake out, but might not be hard to fix
15:12 gmcharlt #agreed paul_p will add discussion/testing of UNIMARC Zebra-DOM to Marseille hackfest
15:12 ashimema gmcharlt, I'd love to see GRS-1 go the way of the dodo.
15:13 jenkins_koha Starting build #1644 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:13 gmcharlt #info anyone using SRU with DOM indexing ?
15:13 ashimema marcelr, we have a few customers using SRU with DOM.. i believe
15:13 gmcharlt marcelr: are you seeing any issues with it?
15:13 tcohen SRU+DOM+UNIMARC?
15:13 marcelr i tried some time ago and it did not work at that time (out of the box or so)
15:13 ashimema not unimark from us.
15:14 ashimema I believe I had to modify at least one config file to get it outputting a sensible format.. it was outputting plain indexes to start with.
15:14 gmcharlt #info Is anybody actively testing or developing on Debian Jessie at the moment?
15:14 cait marcelr: I think there might have been a fix for that, worth trying again maybe
15:14 ashimema i can't remember the details.. it was a while ago and hasn't come up again since
15:14 Franziska joined #koha
15:14 paul_p gmcharlt = added to workshop list : "DOM indexing in UNIMARC We must test DOM indexing in UNIMARC to see if GRS-1 can be deprecated. Some patches pushed"
15:14 gmcharlt paul_p++
15:14 wajasu should ICU be the default oor such, if or when GRS1 goes away? or is there search value in CHR?
15:15 cait I'd be for ICU by default
15:15 cait a lot of libraries stumble on that
15:15 paul_p ICU by default++
15:15 ashimema icu for default... ++
15:15 ColinC One issue with Jessie may be that Queryparser's tests fail on newer perls
15:15 tcohen +1
15:15 gmcharlt is there a singular ICU config that folks like?
15:15 cait OpacSuppression + Queryparser don't work, that's kind of a blocker for the library that we tested it with
15:15 gmcharlt or shoudl we consider going a bit further to generate language-of-record specific configs that folks can use sysprefs to select?
15:16 paul_p Franziska = hello. Just seen your email now. happy to see that you could fix the problem to join us
15:16 gmcharlt ColinC: indeed - it's heavily depending on hash sort order, for some reason
15:16 Franziska joined #koha
15:17 cait paul_p: maybe testing QueryParser could also be a topic for the hackfest?
15:17 gmcharlt also - folks, please feel free to chime in on proposing these sorts of architectural/deprecation/compatbility questions now
15:18 ashimema testing QueryParser has been on my todo list for a while now, I'de be happy chipping in testing at hackfest should it become a topic
15:18 Franziska Hello from Koha Gruppo Italiano - Rome
15:18 cait the librarian testing force is strong at the hackfest usually
15:18 cait they have done some great testing int he past, also with plack
15:18 tcohen gmcharlt: do u think 11096 could be ready for 3.16?
15:18 marcelr bug 11096
15:18 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11096 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Signed Off , Koha cannot retrieve big records from Zebra
15:19 gmcharlt #info is there a reasonable Plack configuration that we could include in 3.16, and encourage as a first-class install option?
15:19 gmcharlt tcohen: in a word, yes
15:19 cait gmcharlt: i think most use the out of the box icu now, but there is a wiki page on how to tweak it for arabic
15:20 cait gmcharlt: we had added some additional rules for umlaut indexing in the past, not sure how flexible configuration can be made here
15:20 jcamins I use the out-of-the-box configuration.
15:20 jcamins (for ICU, FWIW)
15:20 gmcharlt cait: OK, I"m going to tweet a request for folks to add their custom ICU configs to the wiki page
15:20 ashimema we use out of the box icu configs in lots of places.
15:21 ColinC ICU out of the box handles arabic cyrillic and chinese fairly well
15:21 cait gmcharlt: can we add icu by default as a question? or did i miss it?
15:21 ashimema gmcharlt.. I spent a fair bit of time testing the Plack during install bug on bugzilla.. It had a few issues.
15:21 clrh #info Claire Hernandez, BibLibre, France (late sorry)
15:22 paul_p gmcharlt = we have a working plack configuration at SAN-OP
15:22 gmcharlt ashimema: did you write up the issues?
15:22 jcamins I use ICU mostly for Russian, Arabic, and Hebrew.
15:22 gmcharlt paul_p: did you write up the config anywhere?
15:22 cait we use it with hebrew, out of the box icu, no complaints so far
15:23 paul_p for both OPAC & staff. We faced one problem with it though = we restarted plack every night, and sometimes, it stopped badly, and did not restart
15:23 gmcharlt all: did you write up the FOO anywhere? ;)
15:23 ashimema bug 9316
15:23 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9316 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Add Nginx install options with plack
15:23 paul_p gmcharlt = not sure, will check & wiki-fy it
15:23 gmcharlt ashimema: thanks
15:24 paul_p both plack config & nightly crontab script
15:24 ashimema I need to look into it again.. not checked for a while.. i'll try to take a look between this meet and the next ;)
15:24 cait #info Can we make ICU indexing default for new installations?
15:24 ashimema nothing major.. just minor gripes really.
15:24 cait so it doesn't get lost :)
15:24 ashimema from memory
15:25 gmcharlt OK, I'm going to try to keep the meeting to an hour, so I'm going to move on
15:25 gmcharlt #topic ElasticSearch
15:25 Topic for #koha is now ElasticSearch (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC)
15:25 gmcharlt it looks like we have two different ElasticSearch projects going on
15:25 gmcharlt and ... for obvious reasons it would be great if the efforts were coordinated
15:25 paul_p Franziska = look, it's for you now !!!
15:26 gmcharlt I imagine the NZers will be participating in the second version of this meeting today, of coruse
15:26 paul_p gmcharlt = what do you mean by "2 projects going on" ?
15:26 Franziska Great! Stefano will present the project in Marseille. Please join us on March 11th
15:27 ashimema Agreed, we need some collaboration going on this.
15:27 paul_p because what italians announced is not -yet- a project with code. It's a project to see how things could/should be done, and -try to- fund it
15:27 Franziska Additional information will be available on shortly
15:27 paul_p so it's not too late to coordinate. It's the perfect timing I think.
15:27 ashimema Franziska, are you in touch with Chris et al?
15:28 paul_p gmcharlt = the "other" ES project is made by chris & sponsored by bywater, isn't it ?
15:28 gmcharlt yes
15:28 Franziska No not yet, but we really hope to work with him on this project
15:28 gmcharlt and since it has code developing, it's going to set the tone
15:28 gmcharlt so Franziska, I *strongly* encourage you to get in touch with Chris ASAP
15:29 paul_p gmcharlt = so I hope things will be coordinated, because the "italian" project have American University in Rome, that is a ByWater customer !
15:29 Franziska Our goal is to help the community to make it happen
15:29 cait Franziska: being in NZ they won't make it to the hackfest in Marseille
15:30 gmcharlt they also tend to use IRC a lot; I recommend that you hang out in #koha
15:30 Franziska we are not assisted by Bywater...Stefano is in charge of our catalog
15:30 cait I think it would be great to see this worked out - funding and development :)
15:30 Franziska we are independent. Bywater is in charge of the American Academy's catalog.
15:30 gmcharlt right
15:31 paul_p Franziska oups, sorry, failed once again between AAR and AUR ...
15:31 paul_p I'll be successful one day... (maybe not this year :D :D )
15:31 gmcharlt paul_p: then we'll throw more acronyms at you
15:31 gmcharlt just to keep you on your toes ;)
15:31 Franziska For us it is a important to work out the way between funding and development
15:32 paul_p ABR ? ACR ? ADR ? AER ?
15:32 cait rangi left a note on the agenda - saying they will try to have something to play with for the hackfest
15:32 gmcharlt that should help
15:32 cait maybe this can help see where things are going and help getting started on coordination
15:32 Franziska what we essentially do is to promote Koha in Italy
15:33 paul_p what annoys me is that it seems that the work we made on solr won't be re-used at all. And I think/feel it's a shame.
15:33 paul_p (energy lost)
15:33 paul_p (not because we wrote it)
15:33 Franziska Sorry, my mistake - the promotion goes over the world
15:33 marcelr paul_p couldn't that be rescued somehow?
15:33 clrh marcelr: things are pushed in master
15:34 clrh marcelr: there is a base to wrote more things on many search engin as you want...
15:34 ashimema Franziska... do you guys have plans for A) Where the money should be coming from and B) What developers your hoping to employ to do the work.  I'm just thinking it should probably go to one of the bigger players already working in searhc for koha, as aposed to somone new implimenting in yet another way..
15:34 ashimema basically what paul_p just said ;)
15:35 Franziska The community has to choose amoung Solr and ElasticSearch
15:35 paul_p marcelr = I feel it could, I sent an email to rangi about that, and got no feedback.
15:35 marcelr unfortunate
15:36 paul_p Franziska = the best would be to have an search layer independant from any search engine. So we can plug ES, Solr, Zebra, whatever
15:36 gmcharlt I think it's fair to say that there's been an long-running technical disagreement about that.  There's no need to rehash it now, but I expect that once the ES stuff for testing at Hackfest is available, it may clarify things
15:36 cait also people from ByWater will be there
15:37 cait who have been working with Catalyst IT to make it happen
15:37 paul_p gmcharlt which one ? not clear to me (except the fact that we started to REPLACE zebra by solr, and the community wanted to have a CHOICE)
15:37 Franziska Koha Gruppo Italiano has no conflict with choice
15:38 paul_p gmcharlt and maybe another one with Moose, but not worth forgetting everything we made I think
15:38 thd paul_p: Could some of BibLibre work on the user interface for user configurat‭ion of indexing not be taken from the Solr/Lucene work and added to Elastic Search.
15:38 thd ?
15:39 paul_p thd = I really don't know. Everything is in master, we're open to questions.
15:39 clrh thd: erf do not understand the question ><
15:39 gmcharlt I actually think that's going to be a big question for 3.16 or possibily 3.18 -- how much of the Koha::SearchEngine stuff will remain
15:39 Joubu thd: the Solr config page (the one in master) can be used for ES too.
15:40 gmcharlt because, ATM, it's code that isn't actively used
15:40 paul_p right.
15:40 paul_p I don' tthink it's a reachable goal for 3.16
15:40 paul_p for 3.18, it should be a goal.
15:41 cait maybe we could do experimental
15:41 gmcharlt I'm actually hoping that the question gets settled by 3.16 - at least in terms of our having a pretty good idea about what parts will be staying in for the long run
15:41 cait if it doesn't break anything, nto sure how far they are
15:41 thd The issue would be for a librarian interface to control how the indexing functions.
15:41 cait oh, i misunderstood... i thought elastic search going in
15:41 cait not reading fast enough
15:41 gmcharlt considering that two piece of completely dead code contributed to the security release recently -- I'm feeling a bit less lenient about keeping in code that isn't used
15:42 gmcharlt cait: we'll see about when ES goes in - it's a bit too early to know for sure
15:42 gmcharlt *however* - I think we've exhausted this topic for now until the later meeting
15:42 gmcharlt so going to move on
15:42 slef I've some of the same concerns about ES as Solr. It's another Java app so another complication for Koha servers.
15:43 gmcharlt yeah, I think there will be a place for fast, self-contained search engines for a while yet
15:43 gmcharlt #topic DBIx::Class
15:43 Topic for #koha is now DBIx::Class (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC)
15:44 gmcharlt so I think one of the issues here is this
15:44 gmcharlt how much abstraction to use
15:44 wajasu can we get the entire DB API coded in a test for DBIx and possibly reconcile historical names (borrower vs member, issue vs ...)  Then code won't bubble that up into the UI with varying concepts
15:44 gmcharlt the current DBIC suppport already provides basic data access classes
15:45 gmcharlt my current thinking is that for simple things, the DBIC schema classes can safely be used directly
15:45 gmcharlt and that we should interpose container classes only when needed
15:45 gmcharlt for example - the concept of a bib is one that I think lends itself to such an intermediate class
15:46 gmcharlt particularly since we're contemplating doing things like merging biblio and biblioitems
15:46 ColinC They are intended to give you usuable objects
15:46 paul_p gmcharlt my counter comment is "how will anyone know what it 'simple' and what is not" ? for newbies, won't it be less readable ?
15:46 gmcharlt but things like authorised values? I see less of a reason write wrapper classes
15:46 gmcharlt (though more scope to add methods to the base DBIC schema class if called for)
15:47 paul_p having the same container schema everywhere may be a little bit boring to write, but changes nothing to readability or efficiency, and will be clearer
15:47 marcelr lots of relative empty classes
15:47 paul_p and what if one day something simple become no more simple ?
15:47 marcelr create a class
15:47 cait more code to maintain
15:47 gmcharlt yes, piling on more code to maintain is not my preference
15:48 gmcharlt and too many layers of delegation can impose a performance penalty
15:48 paul_p gmcharlt the perf penalty is small (and tiny with plack)
15:48 Joubu In my opinion, if the code is easy to understand, it is not a problem to have more code
15:48 ColinC would be a good idea to do some concentrated work on an area of the application and learn a bit
15:49 Joubu Is there already an example on how to implement an OO class using DBIC into Koha?
15:49 gmcharlt paul_p: I do agree, however, that some syntactical sugar would be nice to get a schema class with less typing would be nice
15:49 gmcharlt schema object, rather
15:49 gmcharlt Joubu: well, the basic DBIC objects aren't hard to understand
15:50 Franziska I am leaving the meeting,Thank you for your attention.
15:50 gmcharlt so I don't per se see that more layers improve readability /necessarily/
15:50 gmcharlt I could be swayed by a specific counter-example
15:51 gmcharlt ColinC: yeah, that seems sensible
15:51 Joubu gmcharlt: I already submit propositions and all have been rejected, I just would like someone to show me how to do
15:51 Joubu Moreover, should we (QA team) authorize to use DBIC directly in pl scripts, or only in packages in the Koha namespace?
15:51 wajasu but should we provide   getRenewal vs. ???      wrap only were needed.   if we write good tests for the data access "API", we can NYTProf and such and make it solid the layer testable.
15:51 cait I think maybe some notes, good practice examples ont he wiki would help to clear confusion
15:52 marcelr Joubu i think we wanted to use them from the Koha namespace?
15:52 cait the RFC on the wiki is not quite what we have right now I think
15:52 marcelr only
15:52 ColinC The logic would be to use the objects directly in .pl scripts DBIC does the hiding of DBI for you
15:52 Joubu marcelr: it is not everybody's opinion
15:52 gmcharlt Joubu: IMO, direct use of DBIC in scripts is fine
15:52 marcelr ColinC: now we move them to modules
15:53 vfernandes joined #koha
15:53 vfernandes hi :)
15:53 marcelr but it is just theory; in many cases you will need the module
15:53 gmcharlt one second, digging up an example of something
15:53 paul_p examlpe++
15:53 ColinC adding an extra layer adds a place to add complucations and bugs
15:54 vfernandes one question: i have a koha installation with 5 libraries... it's possible to block the user access to only some of that libraries?
15:54 marcelr this extra layer is now in C4?
15:54 Joubu gmcharlt: yes, I know :) But I disagree :)
15:54 cait vfernandes: can you waita bit longer? we are currently havign a meeting and it's hard to concentrate on 2 things atonce :)
15:54 vfernandes sorry :)
15:56 gmcharlt ok, didn't find what I was looking for
15:56 gmcharlt however, I agree with the general point that we need specific examples of recommended usage
15:56 marcelr the move from C4 to Koha is now interfering with the DBICifying
15:56 gmcharlt so I'll add that as a topic the March 5 meeting and work some up
15:56 ColinC how?
15:56 cait marcelr: there is not so much in Koha yet, maybe the newer ones could just use it?
15:57 cait marcelr: when we need one that is
15:57 gmcharlt #action gmcharlt will work on some DBIC examples; requests others to experiment as well
15:57 marcelr should we refrain from adding DBIC into C4 ?
15:57 wajasu for what was generated in master, did someone get that "work around" DBIC_????? flag out and was the schema adjusted to make DBIC happy (NULL foreign keys)?
15:58 ashimema i feel the line between C4 and Koha has become rather hazy at best.. I often find myself a bit confused as to where something should go now.
15:58 gmcharlt wajasu: yes
15:58 wajasu great
15:58 marcelr true and it will probably stay for some time :)
15:58 cait i feel new modules into Koha ideally, but harder to tell when just adding new bits and pieces
15:59 ColinC I think the difference is Koha modules have less history to support  the are meant to be new thought
16:00 Joubu gmcharlt: Note: I encountered an issue on writing UT for bug 8007 (cf patch UT). The transaction does not work, we use 2 handlers on the same DB
16:00 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8007 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Discharge management
16:00 marcelr i also submitted a report this afternoon on some warnings on the connect bug 11835
16:00 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11835 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Warnings from DBIx about Moo::_Utils and Class::XSAccessor in Koha::Schema
16:03 cait we are getting close to the hour now - maybe we need to talk about having another meeting/actions?
16:04 lcls joined #koha
16:04 gmcharlt indeed
16:04 gmcharlt but very breifly, first
16:04 wajasu i did successfully code tests with[…]x/Class/
16:04 gmcharlt #topic Large enhancements
16:04 Topic for #koha is now Large enhancements (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC)
16:04 gmcharlt here's what I know of
16:04 gmcharlt #info Rancor (cataloging editor)
16:04 gmcharlt #info ElasticSearch
16:04 gmcharlt what else?
16:04 cait hm Accounts rewrite?
16:04 wajasu account rewrite
16:05 paul_p gmcharlt = how do you define "large" ?
16:05 cait #info Accounts rewrite
16:05 Joubu I have a lot of "large" enh in the queue
16:05 gmcharlt paul_p: in this case, things that would require special effort to for signoff and QA by their nature
16:06 marcelr when is the cutoff date?
16:06 cait maybe we can add the multi transports as well
16:06 Joubu bug 7180
16:06 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7180 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Order from staged file improvements
16:06 Joubu bug 9016
16:06 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9016 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Multi transport types for notices
16:06 bag morning
16:06 wahanui hmmm... morning is a state of cat
16:06 Joubu bug 10212
16:06 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10212 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Columns configuration for tables
16:06 Joubu the history search
16:07 Joubu bug 10858
16:07 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10858 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Browse selected biblios
16:07 cait Joubu:  big enhancements, but bit smaller than the other 3 i think, thankfully
16:07 marcelr Joubu: bug 10858 will have my attention again very soon
16:07 rocio joined #koha
16:07 cait smaller is good in that case
16:07 marcelr hopefully before end of tomorrow :)
16:07 Joubu cait: yes but they require special effort for so and qa
16:08 jenkins_koha Project master_maria build #362: SUCCESS in 1 hr 0 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]master_maria/362/
16:08 jenkins_koha Marcel de Rooy: Bug 11803: use $dbh consistently in _koha_modify_item
16:08 thd What is involved in a 'special effort' for signoff?  What distinguishes a 'special effort'?
16:08 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11803 trivial, P5 - low, ---,, Pushed to Master , Consistent use of $dbh in _koha_modify_item
16:08 Joubu bug 9011 is quite large too
16:08 gmcharlt marcelr: I'm not setting a firm cutoff date just yet, but will do so by the March 5 meeting
16:08 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9011 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, In Discussion , Add the ability to store the last patron to return an item
16:08 Joubu bug 9811
16:08 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9811 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Patrons search improvements
16:08 marcelr gmcharlt: ok
16:08 cait thd: everything gets special effort from the QA team ;)
16:08 marcelr :)
16:08 wajasu what about considering enduser migration from squeeze to wheezy.   or mysql vs postgres vs mariadb
16:08 gmcharlt thd: it's a bit of a gut feeling
16:08 cait thd: but some things are harder, like touching lots of functionality, sensitive spots like holds, etc
16:09 marcelr wajasu: isn't that linked to the dbic efforts..
16:09 gmcharlt but basically, something that isn't just an incremental additional to existing functionality
16:09 cait gmcharlt: i think another thing we need to fix eventually is the apache configuration for the new apache version
16:09 gmcharlt most of Joubu's aren't quite so "large"
16:09 gmcharlt (they're important, though, I'm not trying to minimize that)
16:10 gmcharlt wajasu: I don't know of any particular blockers for folks to upgrade to Wheezy
16:10 gmcharlt and they should do so soon, as Squeeze will be going away
16:10 gmcharlt MariaDB is already a valid option, IMO
16:10 Franziska joined #koha
16:10 clrh gmcharlt: not sure to understand what you are waiting for with this topic
16:10 wajasu I am running mariadb on archlinux now so can test that.
16:10 ashimema wajasu, we've updated lots of squeeze to wheezy.. none had any issues.
16:10 gmcharlt as far as Pg, it will be more better in 3.16, but I don't expect it to be a first-class option prior to 3.18 at the earliest
16:11 gmcharlt clrh: what I"m looking for is this, basically
16:11 cait we are using wheezy, i just checked
16:11 gmcharlt #info what big Koha dev projects have people been working on that they might like to get included soon, that they haven't really publicized or made avaialble for early testing
16:12 gmcharlt and I think we can leave it at that
16:12 gmcharlt #topic Follow-up
16:12 Topic for #koha is now Follow-up (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC)
16:12 gmcharlt #info There will be a second running of today's meeting at 21:00 UTC
16:12 gmcharlt as far as follow-up, are folks amenable to an IRC meeting during hackfest?
16:12 ashimema I've been working on a refactoring of the patron import tools.. to introduce a command line version.. but it's not close to ready yet..
16:13 cait i think if it's not too late and interfering with lunch...
16:13 gmcharlt :)
16:13 wajasu i want to add font configuration support for  unicode fonts that support many languages like gentium/SIL and that can be used to print labels (TTF) as dobrivica is promoting.
16:13 ashimema gmcharlt.. a followup during hackfest sounds like a pretty good idea.
16:13 gmcharlt paul_p: what say you?
16:15 wajasu aybe for plack it might be doable to support/use systemd for servers, and that might give us a watchdog to restart our server if it crashes.
16:15 paul_p sorry, was with my kids. reading the logs...
16:15 gmcharlt the immediate question is my proposal to hold a follow-up dev IRC meeting during hackfest
16:15 paul_p yep, another meeting diring the hackfest is a good idea
16:15 gmcharlt maybe include Google Hangout and the like as an option
16:16 gmcharlt are there any days that are best during hackfest?
16:16 Joubu ashimema: we have worked on that too
16:16 Joubu (patron import tools)
16:16 ashimema question: is anyone working towards bug 8190 going in?
16:16 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8190 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Passed QA , Add a logging module to Koha
16:16 paul_p gmcharlt HG++, we use it all the time,
16:16 paul_p gmcharlt not monday nor friday. I would say wed
16:16 paul_p monday = not everybody here. friday= some already left.
16:17 paul_p tuesday = let's start
16:17 paul_p wed or thu = we're full power :D
16:17 ashimema Joubu.. we should chat.. I've been following the various open bugs and merging in stuff.. but my work is high refactoring so didn't want to publicise it untill at least some of it works ;)
16:17 gmcharlt does 15:00 UTC on 12 March work, then?
16:17 clrh ashimema: passed qa for 8 months what are you looking for ? Joubu worked on this bz
16:17 gmcharlt ashimema: Joubu: great, that's exactly the sort of thing I want to see
16:18 cait paul_p: wed or thu sound good to me too
16:18 matts ashimema, do you already have a BZ for that work ?
16:18 gmcharlt clrh: and to be blunt - it needs work; IMO a logging module that does not include syslog support right away, and reinvents standard CPAN modules, was problematic
16:19 ashimema not yet.. I'll put one up soon iminently.. was one of those things.. I started playing around with it and got lost in the details.
16:19 Joubu gmcharlt: so the status is failed qa?
16:19 clrh gmcharlt: but it adds value no ?
16:19 gmcharlt Joubu: IMO yes, and I apologize for not being more direct about it
16:20 ashimema gmcharlt, clrh: I'd love to see some decent logging in koha.. my recollection was that gmcharlt was going to post an counter proposal..
16:20 wajasu i was looking at Badger  maybe Badger::Log
16:20 Joubu gmcharlt: I didn't reinvent CPAN module, I used Log::LogLite anyway
16:20 gmcharlt clrh: adding value isn't the only criteria
16:20 gmcharlt ashimema: yes; time has gotten away form me
16:20 clrh gmcharlt: depends the point of view
16:20 ashimema okies.. no worries.. jsut wondered on status and thought today a good time to give it a nudge ;)
16:21 gmcharlt clrh: long-term supportability matters too, and in this case, there are better ways to do it
16:21 marcelr sounds more like In Discussion than Failed QA
16:21 cait clrh: i think the statsu shoudl probably have been In Discussion
16:21 Joubu gmcharlt: In my opinion, if a patch improves the existing code/behavior, it is worth pushing it.
16:21 cait as a lot of people have expressed concerns on the implementation
16:21 clrh for me adding value for a user a developper is time won - if it is better than today, what is the problem ?
16:21 Joubu gmcharlt: if it is not perfect, it could be improve later
16:21 ashimema too many ways to skin a cat.
16:21 gmcharlt Joubu: this is where we have a disagreement
16:22 gmcharlt please consider the concept of technical debt
16:22 wajasu we have alot of debt
16:22 marcelr :)
16:22 gmcharlt I woudl argue that we've incurred much more of it than we need to because of being a bit too willing to push anything that reaches us
16:22 ashimema that we do..
16:22 gmcharlt but I recognize that there's a balance
16:22 gmcharlt and room for valid disagreement
16:22 thd gmcharlt: What is mnt by 'technical debt'?
16:22 Joubu gmcharlt: I am quite reactive, I think. And I can provide follow-up quickly if it is needed. It is really hard to maintain 80 patches and to rebase them every weeks.
16:23 ashimema sorry.. didn't mean to start a war ;)
16:23 thd s/ment/meant/
16:23 gmcharlt thd: bascially, deferred technical maintenance on a codebase
16:23 gmcharlt the C4 => Koha switch is an example of a project to try to pay off some of that debt
16:23 Joubu cait: yes, there were concerns, but no proposition :)
16:23 cait i think rangi tried to show some code on how to do it different
16:24 marcelr remember he proposed another cpan module
16:24 cait I think we need to get better at communicating in general - and communicating early on
16:24 gmcharlt cait: he had; a bit more is needed, which was what I was aiming for but didn't get to
16:24 gmcharlt but let's pause a minute and settle the meeting time
16:24 ashimema agreed
16:24 gmcharlt 15:00 UTC and 21:00 UTC on 12 March 2014 for the next dev meeting?
16:25 clrh ashimema: talking about disagreements and trying explain ourselves about what we live everyday is not a war I think :)
16:25 thd gmcharlt: Do you mean that many small changes are difficult to push now because attention needs to be concentrated fixing historic problems?
16:25 gmcharlt thd:
16:26 gmcharlt I can bring up the schedulign question at the 5 March meeting
16:26 ashimema clrh, it was meant lightheardedly..
16:26 cait Joubu: for things in QA t might help to communicate - we communcate where we start with QA and then you can stop rebasing the other sin the meantime, if that would help
16:26 gmcharlt but can I have some initial +1/-1 on the date?
16:26 ashimema light-heartedly
16:26 gmcharlt ashimema: so you whispered it? ;)
16:26 thd +1
16:27 oleonard +1
16:27 ashimema :p
16:27 tcohen +1
16:27 cait +1
16:27 ashimema +1
16:27 Joubu +1
16:27 marcelr +1
16:27 paul_p gmcharlt = will the meeting last 1 hour ?
16:27 matts +1
16:27 ashimema +1
16:27 ashimema for a hour..
16:28 wajasu +1
16:28 gmcharlt paul_p: yeah
16:28 ashimema don't want to eat into hacking time too long ;)
16:28 paul_p +1 then
16:28 gmcharlt paul_p: I'll rely on you to manage the chatterboxes in Marseille ;)
16:28 paul_p IRC or hangout ?
16:28 ashimema hangout +1
16:29 tcohen hangout++
16:29 cait how many hanging out can the wifi support? :)
16:29 gmcharlt #agreed Next dev meeting will be at 15UTC/21UTC on 12 March 2014 (pending confirmation from the second half of today's meeting)
16:29 ashimema hangout on big screen maybe?
16:29 ashimema we can work that out closer to the time though me thinks.
16:29 gmcharlt possibliy both IRC and Hangout
16:29 paul_p ashimema in BibLibre office, we can HG on a projector
16:29 Joubu there is a limitation at 9 users on hg I think
16:29 gmcharlt given the limit, yes
16:30 ashimema think you can get around the limit using a google apps for business account?
16:30 paul_p all hackfest attendees can share the same HG, so it could work
16:30 ashimema sure I could offer ours if that's the case
16:31 gmcharlt ashimema: please find out
16:31 gmcharlt OK
16:31 gmcharlt #endmeeting
16:31 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha - this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software Koha 3.14.3 is the latest release! The next general IRC meeting is on 5 March 2014 18:00 UTC.
16:31 huginn` Meeting ended Tue Feb 25 16:31:29 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
16:31 huginn` Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-02-25-14.59.html
16:31 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]4-02-25-14.59.txt
16:31 huginn` Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]25-14.59.log.html
16:31 rhcl gmcharlt: RHCL generally supports the move to Unimarc as long as most of the user-end effects are textual. Currently we have to manually remove accent marks, especially in ES, when entering data.
16:32 thd gmcharlt: Please help me to understand a little better the consequence of giving consideration to technical debt in Koha.
16:32 cait rhcl: i think you might be confusing things :)
16:33 ashimema gmcharlt.. will take a look.
16:33 rhcl cait: quite possibly
16:33 gmcharlt thd: in a nutshell - there is the possibility that a particular implementation of a new idea may inevitably incur more than the usual amount of cleanup required later
16:33 thd gmcharlt: Do we hold back patches for minor incremental improvements pending a change in architecture?
16:33 cait rhcl: I think you mean ICU - that would fix the accents
16:33 vfernandes can I ask now? :P
16:33 gmcharlt thd: that sort of technical debt is a tax on the ability of developers to add new features in the future
16:34 cait rhcl: you can type them or not type them, both will find what you are looking for
16:34 gmcharlt thd: and consideration should be given to avoding that
16:34 wajasu vfernandes: yes
16:34 ashimema vfernandes.. go ahead..
16:34 cait rhcl: and you can already have that now :)
16:34 gmcharlt thd: however, I encourage you to read and ponder the Martin Fowler piece and the links from it first
16:35 cait UNIMARC is like MARC21 - just a bit different and used mostly in France and I think Spain?
16:35 jcamins cait: Portugal.
16:35 wahanui rumour has it portugal is nice and an entry point in Europe
16:35 cait and ES will be Elastic search
16:35 vfernandes with independentbranches on the librarian can only edit items of her librarian
16:35 cait which is not quite there yet :)
16:36 vfernandes can I give a librarian access to a group of libraries
16:36 thd gmcharlt: I should have stated that I read and understood the Martin Fowler explanation of a well acknowledged problem.
16:36 vfernandes for example I have an installation with 5 independent libraries... but to a librarian I want to give access to 3 of that 5 libraries
16:36 vfernandes it is possible?
16:37 thd gmcharlt: I am trying to discover what practical effect considering 'technical debt' is intended to have on prospective patches.
16:37 vfernandes ps: UNIMARC is common in Portugal :)
16:39 wajasu did we every try getting Test::DBIx::Class::SchemaM​anager::Trait::Testmysqld  or Test::DBIx::Class::SchemaMan​ager::Trait::Testpostgresql   running?
16:39 * ashimema heads off to QA bug 11096
16:40 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11096 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Signed Off , Koha cannot retrieve big records from Zebra
16:40 gmcharlt thd: it is one of several criteria that could lead to a patch being rejected or deferred if it is judged to impose to much debt
16:40 vfernandes can I give a librarian access to more than 1 library using independentbranches on=
16:40 vfernandes ?
16:40 thd gmcharlt: Thank you, that was the answer which I was seeking.
16:42 * cait cheers ashimema on
16:42 thd druthb: are you now here?
16:42 druthb for some value of "here"
16:44 thd druthb: I am interested in further clarification on the right to left language issue for MARC.
16:44 cait vfernandes: you could add another account, but apart from that you will have to wait for some features that khall was working on
16:44 wajasu somebody give me something to test/signoff on.  i am having a hard time finding things that aren't in some state of gridlock.
16:44 cait vfernandes: currently it's totally divdided or all together,not much in between
16:44 vfernandes damn it :D
16:45 vfernandes i was afraid of that
16:45 thd druthb: You were told that a MARC display should be generally left to right for MARC even when cataloguing in a right to left language, if I understood correctly.
16:47 oleonard Is there something I need to enable in order to be able to schedule reports?
16:47 oleonard I get "Failed to add scheduled task" when I try to do so.
16:47 oleonard Oh, and I see an error in the log: "You do not have permission to use atq."
16:47 thd druthb: Should the content of the textual subfields, however, not be right to left within the individual subfield while the record as a whole and coded non-textual subfields would be left to right?
16:47 cait oleonard: i never got around that :(
16:50 thd druthb: Is the problem for MARC in right to left languages really one of lack of granularity for how Koha had been treating right to left for the record editor in particular?
16:52 wajasu cait.  i was able to make the xslt subject headings an html list, but ran into the complex case where 505a  was a big chunk of  subjects delimited by -- in a format note. So i did not have time to get into search/replace coding in xslt.
16:54 thd druthb: Is my question about record editor presentation in right to left languages clear?
16:54 wajasu as is the case for http://library.redeemerseminar[…]=kw,wrdl:%20vines
16:56 oleonard Is the task scheduler run via cron job?
16:57 wajasu atq i believe is the linux "at" command for running a one time job with cron.
16:58 wajasu[…]d/blcmdl1_atq.htm
16:58 wajasu atq lists jobs
17:00 gmcharlt I would appreciate feedback on bug 11836, as I see a couple different directions for centralizing the cataloging toolbar management code
17:00 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11836 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , population of template variables used by should be centralized
17:03 oleonard I'm trying to test saved reports with some data in the "saved results" column and I don't know what to do. I successfully scheduled a report but it doesn't seem to have run.
17:03 wajasu i'd go with the later option, since its presentation specfic.  But if you want a test written, the class you mentioned might be easier to write one for.
17:04 wajasu oleonard: let me try in my environment. I was working on some yesterday.
17:06 gmcharlt bug 11837 is similar
17:06 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11837 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , generation of template-variables used by should be centralized
17:06 wajasu i have the same problem trying to schedule.  let me look at the code.
17:06 gmcharlt wajasu: actually, I don't think it's any harder to write test cases for template plugins
17:07 gmcharlt e.g., t/db_dependent/Koha_template_plugin_Branches.t
17:07 wajasu ok.  a plugin.
17:07 wahanui a plugin is jquery.qtip.js. It's used somewhere in budgets admin I think
17:07 oleonard wahanui: forget a plugin
17:07 wahanui oleonard: I forgot plugin
17:11 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1644: SUCCESS in 2 hr 1 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1644/
17:11 jenkins_koha Marcel de Rooy: Bug 11803: use $dbh consistently in _koha_modify_item
17:11 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11803 trivial, P5 - low, ---,, Pushed to Master , Consistent use of $dbh in _koha_modify_item
17:14 mtompset_away joined #koha
17:14 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
17:14 Joubu gmcharlt: The patch you proposed on bug 10865 looks good to me, good catch!
17:14 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10865 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, In Discussion , Don't show list permissions when adding public lists/sharing lists is not allowed
17:16 gmcharlt oleonard: do you want to apply some styling to it now?
17:17 gmcharlt Joubu: thanks for testing it
17:17 gmcharlt and thanks for fixing my typo ;)
17:17 * oleonard will take a look
17:20 ashimema joined #koha
17:21 * gmcharlt wonders if DataTables can be induced to let one specify sortable columns by (say) header row ID or class rather than numeric postion
17:23 wajasu if this is the library we use[…]ble.Sortable.html  i believe so.  then we won't have bugs creep up when columns added.
17:23 gmcharlt YUI is dead to us
17:23 gmcharlt is what I'm referring to
17:25 cait left #koha
17:26 gmcharlt and to answer my question - looks like yes, via aoColumnDefs/aTargets
17:30 oleonard Yeah gmcharlt that method is used in some places I think.
17:30 oleonard I
17:31 oleonard try to pick the least verbose config for each case
17:32 tcohen @later tell eythian I've just released a patched Memoize::Memcached. Its my first CPAN contribution and is a trivial patch. Would you take a look at it and comment on problem you find?
17:32 huginn` tcohen: The operation succeeded.
17:35 gmcharlt oleonard: I just sent an email to koha-devel about it
17:35 gmcharlt in this case, I suspect that a bit more verbosity may help us in the long run
17:36 gmcharlt tcohen++
17:36 reiveune bye
17:36 reiveune left #koha
17:37 gmcharlt tcohen: where does the source repo for it live, nowadyas?
17:37 tcohen there wasn't any, i started a gitorious one
17:37 gmcharlt were you able to reach the original maintainer at all, or did you have to request a takeover from CPAN?
17:38 tcohen i coordinated it with the original author
17:38 gmcharlt cool
17:38 tcohen he gave me the rights
17:39 mtompset Sweet!
17:39 mtompset Greetings, gmcharlt tcohen oleonard.
17:40 mtompset Greetings, wajasu Joubu. :)
17:40 wajasu Hiya!
17:42 wajasu if anyone sees something testable I should try or rescue just give me a bg number
17:43 oleonard wajasu:[…]n=run&sharer_id=1
17:43 wajasu i'm not sure bug 1993 is working.  at least not for me on master.
17:43 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1993 major, P3, ---, sophie.meynieux, In Discussion , Task Scheduler Needs Re-write
17:49 mtompset Is 20GB a good recommendation for minimal disk space required?
17:50 Dyrcona1 joined #koha
17:51 mtompset wajasu: Doesn't that task scheduler use at?
17:51 mtompset I vaguely remember having to do something I didn't want to do in order to get it to run.
17:52 wajasu probably add http to /etc/at.allow and such.  its got some other problem.  got to debug.
17:53 gmcharlt mtompset: one can go lower for a toy database, but there's a point where I  prefer not to encourage people to skimp too m9uch on disk space
17:53 gmcharlt heck, not even toy, a small library can live on 20G
17:53 gmcharlt but generally disk is cheap
17:56 mtompset The reason I ask is because someone thought, "Oh, 4GB should be enough for an Ubuntu install with a Koha git install," and discovered it wasn't.
17:57 mtompset So they created bug 11830, and I pointed out that I've got a 15GB VM and only have 2.7G free now.
17:57 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11830 minor, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Needs Signoff , Document disk space requirements for git install on Ubuntu
17:57 mtompset So, I redid what they patched, but with 20GB.
17:58 mtompset I can't wait until 14.04 comes out. I love new LTS releases. :)
17:58 wajasu they were creating a VM.  i have one now at 4G and am at 91% full.   I'm sure they put 6GB so as not to hava VM thats too big.
17:59 * tcohen knows storage space is expensive
17:59 gmcharlt heh
17:59 gmcharlt my perspective may be a bit skewed
17:59 mtompset wajasu: But then your data set must be microscopic.
18:00 gmcharlt but absent cases where one really cannot get more spaces, I still prefer recommending a little high
18:00 mtompset wajasu: Also, are you using Ubuntu? I thought you were some crazy thing like arch linux.
18:00 wajasu yes.  but I use a script to create new VMs and can adjust the size.
18:00 gmcharlt I've seen just one too many setup have issues because they ran out of disk space
18:00 wajasu i run on archlinux, but i create a VM doing an automated debian install.
18:02 tcohen bye #koha
18:02 mtompset oh shoot... did I miss the DBIx meeting stuff?
18:02 wajasu i just tweek a preseed.cfg script for different distro, and I sshfs /home/koha/kohaclone to my archlinux host, so I can git clone and use my tools on my host OS.
18:03 gmcharlt mtompset: you can have another go during the second part of the meeting
18:03 mtompset when is that?
18:03 wajasu 3pm CST
18:03 rocio joined #koha
18:03 fridolin I'm on Lubuntu, you should try it, it realy light and so powerfull
18:03 wajasu who is doing the marc editor in javascript?
18:04 gmcharlt pianohacker is the primary dev on that project
18:05 mtompset Ah, 4pm EST, okay.
18:05 mtompset How long did the first one go, gmcharlt?
18:06 gmcharlt about 1.5 hours
18:07 gmcharlt I'll be trying to keep the second one closder to 1
18:08 mtompset Okay good. Because I have to leave at 5:30pm EST.
18:14 laurence left #koha
18:22 wajasu i'm trying to place ahold in the OPAC.  I have all the admin settings on.  where does a link or button show up for placing a hold.
18:22 fridolin left #koha
18:24 cait joined #koha
18:27 * cait is back
18:27 cait :)
18:30 gaetan_B bye !
18:59 pianohacker joined #koha
19:03 pianohacker yo
19:03 magnuse yoyoyo
19:04 rhcl joined #koha
19:06 * rangi reads the log
19:07 cait morning rangi
19:10 rangi hopefully round 2 will be less whiny and more productive
19:14 mtompset whiny?
19:15 wajasu folks wanting stuff with no plan of action for every wish mentioned.
19:21 rangi maybe i need to show people rebase -i --onto sometime
19:22 cait for easier rebasing?
19:22 * cait loves it :)
19:22 cait using it to manage our few customisations
19:22 rangi yep
19:23 rangi running local branches, with small commits, then merge squash to attach etc
19:23 rangi makes life a lot easier
19:23 magnuse put it on the wiki? :-)
19:23 rangi im not sure people ever read the wiki ;)
19:24 rangi what we do need is a librarian or 3
19:24 magnuse[…]i/Tips_and_tricks
19:24 rangi to become curators of the wiki
19:24 magnuse yeah, that would be super cool
19:24 rangi because its really hard to find stuff unless you know what you are after
19:24 magnuse maybe "announce the positions" on the mailinglist?
19:25 rangi hmm could be worth a try
19:30 wajasu oleanard: i was testing 11702, and it seems to work without the patch.  i just used the calendar widget to select the suspend-until date. does it have to do with manual date entry?
19:31 wajasu oleonard: i mean ^^^
19:31 rangi oleonard: loving the datatables patches, they are great for getting the high school kids to test with the sandbox, 3 more yesterday :)
19:31 cait but 11702
19:31 cait bu 11702
19:31 cait bug 11702
19:31 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11702 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Can't specify date for automatic resumption of suspended hold
19:34 oleonard Oh I hadn't seen rangi's comment on that bug.
19:35 oleonard wajasu: It doesn't have to do with manual date entry
19:35 rangi oh yeah i wastnt sure about that, gmcharlt[…]g.cgi?id=11702#c2
19:35 huginn` Bug 11702: normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Can't specify date for automatic resumption of suspended hold
19:36 oleonard rangi: I simply looked for date-handling code which worked that I could steal.
19:37 wajasu i placed a hold with and without your patch and i queried reserves and got the same behavior.
19:37 mtompset wajasu++ # wanting to support an SIL font. ;)
19:38 rangi oleonard: yep exactly what i would have done, im just not sure about the state of C4::Dates
19:38 oleonard wajasu: You suspended the holds and it saved a valid date?
19:39 wajasu well, with my selection of a date from the widget.    i just saved with a blank field though and its null.
19:41 wajasu so maybe the null is getting transformed to 000-00-00 in some other hold processing code, and what we need to do is validate the input field.
19:41 Joubu rangi: do you think I was whiny? :)
19:41 oleonard wajasu: A hold can either be suspended until a certain date or indefinitely
19:41 rocio joined #koha
19:41 wajasu ok. so null is fine then.
19:42 rangi Joubu: not just you, just the general tone
19:43 move_ joined #koha
19:44 gmcharlt oleonard: rangi: use of Koha::DateUtils is more idiomatic, nowaways
19:44 gmcharlt so that patch appears to signal a problem with that module
19:47 rangi *nod*
19:47 Joubu rangi: I am often grumpy, but I know git rebase --onto, and it does not help me very much (a lot of patches with several branches to maintain).
19:48 wajasu maybe you saw 000-00-00 when working bug 11694?
19:48 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11694 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Improve handling of individual hold suspension in Bootstrap OPAC
19:48 Joubu So, I hope you will be more productive than "us" too :)
19:48 Joubu good luck
19:48 Joubu have a good meeting everyone, see you tomorrow
19:49 oleonard Hey all o' y'all gotta get your demos up and running and/or up to date and/or containing bibliographic holdings. Thanks.
19:49 oleonard[…]emo_Installations
19:50 oleonard Until then I beseech someone to test to see if suspending an individual hold in the OPAC works correctly
19:53 mtompset oleonard: How does that tie in with
19:53 pablito joined #koha
19:58 paul_p joined #koha
19:59 oleonard I don't know what you mean mtompset
20:01 ashimema @later tell marcelr You asked about SRU with DOM.. the bug I was thinking about was bug 9612
20:01 huginn` ashimema: The operation succeeded.
20:01 mtompset[…]ailable_Sandboxes
20:01 oleonard mtompset: I am aware of the sandboxes.
20:02 mtompset Are sandboxes different than demos?
20:02 ashimema We gave up on our demo site.. it now 'is' one of our sandbox instances ;)
20:02 gmcharlt yes
20:02 gmcharlt the BL sandboxes are desgined to let somebody claim one, apply a patch series from a bug, and test it
20:02 ashimema but yes.. a demo is differnt to a sandbox.. ours just hapens to be running upon a sandbox so always follwoing master ;)
20:03 ashimema gmcharlt.. ptfs europe host a few sandboxes now too.. I've added a umber for the hackfest..
20:03 ashimema right.. time for some dinner before the next meetins
20:04 * mtompset is putting on his chauffeur hat.
20:05 gmcharlt ashimema: ah cool, I wasn't aware of that
20:05 mrenvoize joined #koha
20:05 _ashimema ;)
20:09 cait ashimema++ and ptfs_europe++
20:10 _ashimema thanks cait ;)
20:11 cait it's really cool :)
20:11 _ashimema been looking over my nginx/plack testing.. that patch isn't in bad shape actually.. with a medium amount of effort it should be ready for signoff/qa
20:12 mrenvoize joined #koha
20:12 cait :)
20:13 mrenvoize i'm thinking a followup would be needed to ensure compatability with packages mind.. but then the patch i'm thinking of was only ever originally designed for testing purposes.
20:13 cait i am a bit worried about the new apache version
20:13 cait it already gives me trouble with ubuntu on my laptop
20:13 rangi yeah we need to finish that bug
20:13 cait would be good to see that moving too
20:14 mrenvoize I remember reading through that bug.. whats holding it up, I can't remember
20:14 rhcl joined #koha
20:14 cait hm maybe it was packages
20:14 cait because needs to be changed there too? not sure
20:15 * mrenvoize goes off to read the bug
20:15 mrenvoize ack
20:16 oleonard So... scheduling saved reports. Is that simply not working? Or am I missing something?
20:16 cait it did never work for me
20:16 cait but i think _ashimema might know something
20:16 cait but i think you can't do it from th einterface, only manually adding a cronjob maybe?
20:18 jcamins oleonard: I don't think that's ever worked.
20:18 jcamins Certainly when I started using Koha in 2009 I was told that the feature didn't work.
20:18 wajasu it doesn't look like it should work as it is now.  i'm looking ate tools/ on master and its still got EXPORT in caps.
20:20 mrenvoize joined #koha
20:20 mrenvoize you can do this in both packages and dev installs
20:21 barton I'm tryiing to get an understanding of what the file '' does.[…]ng_Zebra_indexing only says "for searching purposes".
20:21 mrenvoize but yeah.. the staff client scheduling has never worked since i've been working with koha.. though I'de love to see that change... it's on my todo list.. but not very high up it
20:22 rangi mrenvoize:[…]the-eye-feat-paul  <-- nz/uk collaboration
20:24 cait hm i think
20:24 cait mapping the bib1 attribute to the index?
20:24 cait but others will know better :)
20:24 ashimema nice..
20:24 ashimema barton.. just diggin out my notes on that
20:25 cait ashimema: don#t forget your dinner!
20:25 ashimema pressure cookers are great.. 2 hours dinner cooked in minutes !
20:25 barton ashimema: I actually found something on this -- http://manual.koha-community.o[…]/searchguide.html
20:25 ashimema tasty ragu
20:25 ashimema cool
20:27 ashimema barton.. pming you my notes anyways.  they're rather concise.. it took me ages to work them out.
20:27 cait ashimema++ :)
20:28 ashimema rangi: awesome song.
20:29 * cait is also listening to it :)
20:31 nengard joined #koha
20:32 ashimema barton: here's my zebra braindump in a more edible format:[…]i/MRenvoize/zebra
20:33 barton ashimema++
20:33 rangi[…]nd-not-the-lesson  <-- paul mclaney .. but this time with module who is from island bay (my suburb)
20:33 jcamins NOOOOOOO!!!!
20:34 jcamins ashimema: ummm... step two of the additional steps for DOM indexing is not so good.
20:34 jcamins That step instructs you to run make_zebra_dom_cfg_from_record_abs.
20:34 ashimema there are further notes as to why that's a bad idea..
20:35 ashimema or did i copy the wrong page from our internal wiki.
20:35 jcamins Wrong page, I think.
20:35 ashimema checking now..
20:35 jcamins That just tells you to make a few manual changes after regenerating the DOM config.
20:37 ashimema yeah.. needs more thinking through.. but I was hoping to just get the point of accross really..
20:37 ashimema not meant to be a 'public' per say page..
20:38 cait maybe just delete the part about dom for now?
20:38 cait no confusion :)
20:38 jcamins The rest of it's right.
20:38 ashimema barton: jcamins is right.. if your using grs-1 it's fine.. jsut ignore the dom extra's.. if your want dom. ask hree for further clarification
20:38 * ashimema goes and cleans out the dom bit of that page.
20:39 * cait thinks that page has nicer formatting than most of our other pages
20:39 jcamins cait: it does.
20:39 ashimema jcamins.. how would you go and update dom configs now then.. (i still use those scripts, then diff their output with a backup of the original copying across the extra's form the old to the new)
20:40 ashimema yeah.. I like wiki's ;)
20:40 ashimema unfortunately our 'private wiki' has turned into my personal brain dump now as they the company decided to switch to google sites (which is horrible)
20:41 ashimema and.. the formatting would be nicer if it community ran up to date mediawiki.. there's folding and all sorts on that page.. but it doesn't work with community version of mediawiki ;)
20:41 barton ashimema actually, I *am* using DOM.
20:41 ashimema dang..
20:41 rangi ashimema: just making the GHCQ's job easier
20:41 cait ?
20:41 ashimema ok.. I'll have a go at updating the docs
20:41 ashimema indeed
20:41 rangi sorry gchq
20:42 ashimema lol.. I almost got a job with them before koha ;)
20:42 rangi heh
20:42 jcamins ashimema: you have to edit koha-indexdefs.xml and then generate the xsl from that.
20:42 jcamins It's just the first part of that step that's bad.
20:43 jcamins The problem is that running that first command could be very, very bad. Especially if you have a large database, and decide to reindex.
20:43 * jcamins shudders at the thought.
20:43 ashimema yeah.. I've never taken the time to understand koha-indexdef.xml well enough to edit it directly yet though jcamins ;)
20:43 gmcharlt it's not that complicated
20:43 jcamins It's very simple.
20:43 ashimema hense why I use the script, then vimdiff with my backup.. it works well enough.
20:43 ashimema lol.. i've barely ever opened the file..
20:43 jcamins Sometimes a little too simple, alas.
20:43 gmcharlt though as is common with XML formats, I wouldn't be surprised if the verbosity gets in the way for a lot of folks
20:44 gmcharlt jcamins: complexifying patches welcome ;)
20:44 * jcamins has versions of the Zebra indexdefs that are handwritten, alas.
20:44 ashimema mostly I was pulling accross customisations for customers during upgrades.. so the changes had been made pre-dom.
20:44 jcamins gmcharlt: eh, I have had nowhere near enough problems to justify complexifying it, just observing that it can happen.
20:45 ashimema well.. with any luck we'll be withdraing non-dom support.. then i don't have to bother trying ot keep the two configs synced ;)
20:46 meliss joined #koha
20:48 ashimema is it worth me sanitizing my zebra page and sticking it in the wiki proper then?.. there is a page on there that already attempts to explain it.. but it's a bit less 'clear'
20:49 jcamins You could update the existing page by copying in your text. I think the existing page is mostly just a copy of things that were said in IRC.
20:50 ashimema yup
20:50 gmcharlt #3 isn't quite true if QP is on
20:50 ashimema of course.. that makes sense
20:51 ashimema QP uses pqf right?
20:51 gmcharlt yep
20:51 gmcharlt second half of the meeting starts in 9 minutes
20:51 * rangi gets coffee
20:52 ashimema or was is cql.. or forget.. jcamins care to pipe up ;)
20:52 jcamins PQF.
20:52 ashimema i remeber you exmplaining it.. but don't remeber which tla was which ;)
20:52 ashimema cheers mate
20:53 ashimema pqf, but falls back to ccl for a number of cases does it not?
20:53 docrowe joined #koha
20:53 jcamins It falls back to non-QP existing code if it can't handle the query, yeah.
20:54 ashimema coolios..
20:55 wajasu how about some cookies
20:59 thd gmcharlt: Is the second half of the meeting intended to have a partly different agenda or merely serve a different timezone?
20:59 eythian_ joined #koha
20:59 eythian_ There's a meeting thing about now, right?
21:00 gmcharlt thd: same agenda
21:00 cait yep eythian
21:00 thd eythinan_: yes
21:01 gmcharlt #startmeeting Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC
21:01 huginn` Meeting started Tue Feb 25 21:01:00 2014 UTC.  The chair is gmcharlt. Information about MeetBot at
21:01 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
21:01 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC)
21:01 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'koha_dev_meeting__25_february_2014_21_00_utc'
21:01 gmcharlt #link[…]February_25,_2014
21:01 gmcharlt #topic Introductions
21:01 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
21:01 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC)
21:01 mtompset #info Mark Tompsett
21:01 gmcharlt #info gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, 3.16 RM, Equinox, USA
21:01 eythian_ #info Robin Sheat, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
21:01 JesseM #info Jesse Maseto - ByWater
21:02 rangi #info Chris Cormack, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
21:02 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
21:03 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS-Europe, UK
21:03 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ
21:04 gmcharlt ok, I'm going to recap announcements from the previous meeting
21:04 gmcharlt #topic Announcements
21:04 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC)
21:04 gmcharlt #info gmcharlt will be clearing the passed QA queue prior to the beginning of the hackfest in Marseille
21:04 gmcharlt #info end of tomorrow will be cutoff for new passed QA until the hackfest in Marseille, QA team to focus on sign offs and kitten rescue
21:04 rangi cool
21:05 gmcharlt #info the hackfest in Marseille is 10-14 March
21:05 wahanui i already had it that way, gmcharlt.
21:05 jcamins #info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services
21:05 mtompset -- kitten rescue?
21:05 gmcharlt mtompset: resucing patches in failed QA or does not aply status
21:05 mtompset thank you.
21:05 ashimema everybody love saving kitten mtompset
21:05 gmcharlt any other announcements folks care to make?
21:07 gmcharlt ok
21:07 rangi ill cover mine when we get to elasticsearch
21:07 gmcharlt #topic RM questions
21:07 Topic for #koha is now RM questions (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC)
21:07 gmcharlt I'm passing over the UNIMARC questions and repeating this one:
21:07 gmcharlt is there a reasonable Plack configuration that we could include in 3.16, and encourage as a first-class install option?
21:07 gmcharlt #info is there a reasonable Plack configuration that we could include in 3.16, and encourage as a first-class install option?
21:08 ashimema I looked over my notes for bug 9316 as promised at the earlier meeting.
21:08 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9316 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Add Nginx install options with plack
21:08 ashimema It's not in bad shape really.. probably a worthwhile one to work through for getting plack easily usable by all
21:09 eythian_ from a packaging point of view, it's close but there is one major issue with it that I haven't tried to solve yet, and that's that it won't do shared sites well at all at the moment.
21:09 ashimema it was, however, mostly aimed at making plack more easily installable and therfore testable.. I don't know if it's the 'best' way of doing it, or how it plays with packages.
21:09 gmcharlt another issue that rangi has mentioned, but which I'm not sure is in a bug yet, is management of connections to Zebra
21:09 eythian_ i.e. if you have 10 workers sitting around, and 10 sites on there, that's going to end up with 100 workers running, and no memory.
21:10 gmcharlt in particular, zebrasrv will time out connections, but there's apparently no good way for the ZOOM API to detect that
21:10 gmcharlt so users can run into a backend that has lost its Zebra connectin
21:10 rangi thats exactly it
21:10 ashimema ooh. not thought of either of those points.
21:10 eythian_ we do have a handy script that'll turn a regular package installation into a plack installation.
21:11 ashimema cool.. eythian.. any chance of sharing that?
21:11 rangi only the opac tho
21:11 ashimema would hapily help with testing here.
21:11 eythian_ <-- ashimema
21:11 eythian_ no wait
21:11 eythian_ hmm, not sure where it lives.
21:12 rangi on git.catalyst
21:12 rangi 2 secs
21:12 ashimema cheers.
21:12 eythian_
21:12 eythian_ ^-- there
21:12 rangi thats it
21:13 rangi however for the search to work consistently
21:13 rangi you need something like this
21:13 rangi[…]86e253cb4dfe04597
21:14 rangi (but nicer obviously)
21:14 mtompset Hmmm... that reminds me of a patch I recently signed off.
21:14 eythian_ Ideally we'd build the proxy into the install.
21:14 mtompset or read.
21:15 thd` joined #koha
21:15 ashimema so.. in short it needs a bit more thought and testing
21:15 rangi yes
21:15 rangi the opac, apart from that problem works well
21:15 gmcharlt that confirms my suspicions
21:15 eythian_ but when it works, it works really nicely.
21:15 rangi the intranet needs a ton more testing
21:15 ashimema I thought paul_p had it running somewhere.. surprised he's not pointed out the search issues
21:16 cait hm he said something about having to restart it or something?
21:16 ashimema yeah.. good point cait.
21:16 thd` joined #koha
21:16 cait also the problem is that a single library will never use all features
21:16 cait circ might work well, while some tool doesn't
21:16 thd` To what extent is work on elastic search being shared between Koha and Evergreen?
21:16 wajasu has anyone though of using systemd to manage start/restart/stop of servers.  i believe systemd can be a watchdog and restart crashed services.
21:17 rangi thd`: we arent even up to that yet
21:17 thd` sorry, I was disconnected
21:17 ashimema indeed.. I was hoping to use a few of our more friendly customers as ginny pigs
21:17 eythian_ wajasu: the problem is mostly memory leaks and unreleased resources, I think.
21:17 gmcharlt replacing Evergreen's search engine is not on anybody's radar to my knowledge
21:17 rangi wajasu: its not a stopped/crashed server
21:17 rangi its a timed out connection
21:17 wajasu oh
21:17 rangi zebra very very very rarely crashes
21:18 rangi the ZOOM api has no way of knowing if a connection is live
21:18 rangi in fact z3950
21:18 rangi is not designed to be used in the way we use it
21:18 rangi however, 99% of the world try to do the same thing we do
21:19 rangi which is why yaz-proxy and things like it exist
21:19 rangi and why LOC use yaz-proxy in front of their ILS
21:19 gmcharlt indeed
21:19 gmcharlt I think this is a reasonable seque to...
21:19 gmcharlt #topic Elastic Search
21:19 Topic for #koha is now Elastic Search (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC)
21:19 * ashimema got left behind at the mention of yaz-proxy...
21:19 gmcharlt rangi: can you give a summary of where Catalyst is with it?
21:20 thd` rangi: In what way do you mean not designed for our use case?
21:20 rangi we have one client running the opac in production
21:20 gmcharlt ashimema: (briefly, yaz-proxy in front of Zebra will take care of trying and reopening the Zebra connect if it times out)
21:20 rangi with the above commit, to make it reconnect to zebra each search (exactly what happens under cgi)
21:20 ashimema thought that might be the case.. cheers gmcharlt
21:20 rangi it works great, and has stopped the site dying under big load which it used to do each month
21:21 rangi (when they publish a newsletter that pounded the opac to death)
21:21 eythian_ yeah, it barely broke a sweat with thousands of requests in a short space of time
21:21 ashimema I see, a worthwhile note..
21:21 rangi we are planning to do a lot more testing on the intranet
21:21 eythian_ normally it'd be all OOM then die
21:21 rangi yep
21:21 rangi id happily run the opac under plack, with the ZConn fix
21:21 eythian_ (I did spend time tuning it to ensure it couldn't OOM under plack too, that's necessary but not hard._
21:21 eythian_ )
21:22 rangi in production
21:22 rangi thd`: holding connections open
21:22 ashimema so.. may worth working that installer patch out such that it cleanly adds the workaround so we can get more sites testing rigorously.
21:23 rangi but it would be better to get yaz-proxy in there, which will be useful under cgi too
21:23 * ashimema adds mental note
21:23 thd` rangi: If you do not hold connections open with Z39.50 your request fails.
21:23 * ashimema apologises for holding up conversation on ElasticSearch..
21:23 eythian_ there's no reason we couldn't add it to the package install, perhaps as an option, aside from someone taking the time to do it.
21:23 rangi *nod*
21:24 gmcharlt ok, dragging us back on topic, please...
21:24 cait ashimema: things are clearer for me now too - so thx for holding up
21:24 cait :)
21:25 rangi right elastic search
21:25 rangi we have indexing (when a biblio is modified) and a basic search going
21:26 rangi eythian has done work on an iterator for biblios to allow for a batch index (amongst others)
21:26 eythian_ still not ready, but getting there.
21:26 rangi next on the cards is a browse search, whcih is one of hte requirements of the funding institution
21:27 rangi after that, intranet search
21:27 gmcharlt browse in this case meaning what, exactly? bib headings, authority headings, or both?
21:27 thd` rangi: How is browse search envisioned by the client?
21:28 rangi then time permitting, create a fully js search page, (since elasticsearch hands back JSON)
21:28 rangi gmcharlt: kinda both
21:28 cait rangi: what does basic search include?
21:28 rangi thd`: a library browse .. so something no one else on the planet would understand
21:28 rangi but apparently is vitally important to librarians
21:29 ashimema lol, I've never really understood what librarians mean by 'browse search'
21:29 rangi cait: just author, keyword, title at the moment
21:29 cait that's not too bad :)
21:29 eythian_ once the fundamentals are in place, adding more is easy.
21:29 rangi we aim to have a demo site up for playing with at the hackfest
21:29 gmcharlt WIP can be viewed where?
21:29 cait mostly alphabetic index i think - libraries here are asking for that as well
21:29 thd` rangi: Does that mean browsing the semantic space of classification or subject headings hierarchically?
21:29 rangi yep
21:30 rangi[…]ds/elastic_search
21:30 rangi thd`: no idea, im not gonna reread the spec thing now
21:30 thd` ;)
21:30 rangi blah blah millenium blah blah horizon .. blah blah
21:30 rangi thats what it said to me
21:30 ashimema silly question time.. how does it actually fit together in terms of side by side with zebra, drop in replacement.. does your work do anything to abstract so we could use variose search backends?
21:31 rangi im hoping we can do something that humans will actually understand though :)
21:31 rangi ashimema: its working side by side
21:31 rangi if you switch the syspref it indexes to elasticsearch TOO
21:31 rangi ie its still indexing zebra in the background
21:32 rangi so you can have elasticsearch on the opac and zebra on the back (like now)
21:32 ashimema I see..
21:32 rangi it might be a switch, when the intranet searches work with it too
21:32 ashimema so keeping zebra for z39.50 (SRU) support, but using ES for OPAC and eventually intranet search
21:33 rangi eventually yeah
21:33 thd` rangi: Do you mean the your implementation is merely complementary to what Zebra provides because we have tied so much functionality to Zebra?
21:33 ashimema coolios.
21:33 rangi thd`: i dont want to write a z3950 or sru/sw server
21:33 rangi is the short answer
21:34 thd` rangi: of course, but I meant update triggers for the database etc.
21:34 ashimema z3950/SRU is what zebra is built for.. we may as well keep using it for that ;)
21:34 ashimema at least in the medium term.
21:34 rangi yeah, kaizen :)
21:34 rangi i figure small incremental improvements are easier to test, and less likely to bustinate everything
21:35 rangi the indexer is very simple, at the moment is marc only, but would be able to be other documents with minor changes
21:35 ashimema any comments on abstraction rangi..  is it likely we'll be ableto use this work to 'plug in' other indexers in the future via writing a 'driver'..
21:35 rangi probably not
21:36 rangi i think that abstraction can actually make it more obtuse and slow
21:36 rangi[…]4a0eca7d58ea685b4  <-- indexer
21:36 ashimema fair point.
21:36 thd` gmcharlt: At the last Kohacon hackfest the issue of some shared work between Koha and Evergreen in relation to search was discussed.
21:36 gmcharlt rangi: ashimema: well that's a relief -- I was worried that we'd never have anything to talk about on koha-devel
21:36 nengard left #koha
21:36 rangi heh
21:37 gmcharlt now I know we're set for life! ;)
21:37 rangi we could make Koha::Indexer
21:37 gmcharlt thd`: the context was most likely QueryParser
21:37 rangi which abstracts over Koha::ElasticSearch::Indexer
21:37 gmcharlt I repeat, I know of no serious thoughts about changing Evergreen's search engine at present
21:38 ashimema QueryParser was going to be my next question.. in that. how does it fit in in the scheme of things with ES?
21:38 thd` gmcharlt: Was the consideration of shared work merely for the user interface parser to which any backend system could be used?
21:38 rangi id like that to abstract over Koha::ElasticSearch::Search
21:38 rangi[…]4a0eca7d58ea685b4 <-- so tiny and cute
21:39 gmcharlt well, in QP-speak it woudl be more likely a driver that translates to ES queries
21:39 rangi yeah that :)
21:39 ashimema yeah.. that's what I meant..
21:39 ashimema ;)
21:39 ashimema thanks gmcharlt
21:39 gmcharlt but unless you are about to tell me that ES uses ASN.666/BER, we're probably OK ;)
21:40 rangi nope
21:40 rangi its super simple
21:40 cait so we could use query parser to translate searches into elastic search searches?
21:40 * ashimema clueless again :$
21:40 * cait tries to follow
21:41 gmcharlt #link[…]ds/elastic_search
21:41 rangi yes thats the plan
21:42 rangi[…].pm#Query_methods
21:42 rangi if you are interested
21:42 rangi #info we plan to have a demo in time for the hackfest
21:42 cait very cool
21:42 cait totally curious :)
21:43 rangi its a well documented module, which is very handy
21:44 rangi thats about all i have
21:45 cait rangi++ eythian++
21:45 ashimema ++
21:45 rangi i feel like it will make life a lot better for the future and help with our move from MARC
21:45 * ashimema best go read the manual
21:45 bag here - sorry to be late
21:45 gmcharlt OK, next topic
21:45 mtompset actually... how does all this search stuff related to facets showing or not showing?
21:46 gmcharlt #topic DBIx::Class
21:46 Topic for #koha is now DBIx::Class (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC)
21:46 bag ah I have something to add about Zebra - when it's back to that subject
21:46 gmcharlt oh, OK :)
21:46 gmcharlt #topic Searching
21:46 Topic for #koha is now Searching (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC)
21:46 gmcharlt bag go for it
21:46 ashimema :)
21:47 bag I've talked with gmcharlt and rangi about this.  but we've seen zebra fast indexing - when it's doing a merge
21:47 bag uses 100% of the I/O
21:47 bag just at that spot
21:47 thd` Even with MARC, anything which scales better is an advantage.
21:47 bag rangi or gmcharlt please feel free to say what I said more gracefully
21:47 rangi yeah, it becomes I/O bound on the merge step
21:48 eythian_ a merge will use a ton of IO, because it's beating up on the disk.
21:48 ashimema yup.. we've seen that too bag
21:48 gmcharlt and at present nobody's yet dived deep enough into the code to see if it can be readily remedied
21:48 bag we've done some testing and can only confirm that if you have mysql on the same disk then everything freezes for a bit
21:48 eythian_ a workaround would be to run it with ionice so that other things get priority.
21:49 gmcharlt indeed
21:49 thd` What are the conditions under which a merge happens with Zebra?
21:49 gmcharlt (and separating out I/O for DB vs. everything else is often a good idea for large installations)
21:49 eythian_ or have your DB on another server. I've also been meaning to look into having zebra on its own server, but haven't really had the need.
21:49 bag thd`: fast indexing - once you are TRYing to add to an index that is already created
21:50 rangi chunking the merges into smaller bits may be a solution too
21:50 rangi but not sure
21:50 wajasu maybe some unix command like renice or ionice can bind the IO for that process. - just a guess
21:51 bshum joined #koha
21:51 bag rangi we've seen it with merges as little of 100 records
21:51 gmcharlt well, if it turns out to help, ionice could be incorporated into the script that launches easily enough
21:51 rangi bag: maybe not then, darn
21:51 rangi gmcharlt: thats definitely worth trying
21:51 bag good thought - let's get a bug for that
21:51 rangi bag++ #pie
21:51 gmcharlt bag: rangi: zebraidx may end up doing index rebalancing regardless of the size of the merge, perhaps
21:52 bag heh
21:52 eythian_ totally trivial to test, too.
21:52 bag gmcharlt++
21:52 gmcharlt bag++
21:52 cait bag++ gmcharlt++
21:52 gmcharlt of course, here's a crazy thought:
21:52 gmcharlt store the zebra files on a ramdisk
21:53 bag we've gotten around it by getting mysql on a different disk than zebra idx
21:53 rangi hmm thats not that crazy
21:53 eythian_ could have problems when they get large, also having to do a full rebuild on boot could take a long time.
21:53 bag but I'm not sure everyone could afford such a thing
21:53 rangi yeah
21:53 gmcharlt eythian_: yeah, that's the obvious tradeoff
21:54 gmcharlt of course, one could s/ramdisk/SSD/, but that still involves expense
21:54 rangi you could index on another machine
21:54 eythian_ I do think splitting the disks for the different things could be considered a best practice though.
21:54 rangi and rsync
21:54 thd` gmcharlt: If something like rebalancing is happening then the process should be batched to cron for late at night.
21:54 rangi that may still i/o bind you
21:54 gmcharlt indexing but once a data is a non-starter for general use
21:54 gmcharlt *once a day
21:54 eythian_ thd`: then you don't have updates in near realtime
21:55 bag eythian_: best practice yes - but may not be possible for all people installing koha
21:55 thd` eythian_: Yes but a non-thrashing system is important.
21:55 ashimema I've dabbled with sticing indexes on ssd whilst everything else is on hdd.. it 'felt' quicker, but I ran out of time to really benchmark it properly
21:55 eythian_ bag: yep. I'd slap an ionice in front of the rebuild command, see if that helps to start with.
21:55 mtompset bag++ #pie
21:55 mtompset gmcharlt++
21:56 gmcharlt bag: is there a bug yet?
21:56 bag I don't know gmcharlt
21:57 gmcharlt if not, please file one -- I can't think of a better place at moment to aggregate informatino about zebraidx I/O perofrmance
21:57 bag if I don't find it - I will create one
21:57 gmcharlt thanks
21:57 gmcharlt and now I really will change topics
21:57 gmcharlt #topic DBIx::Class
21:57 Topic for #koha is now DBIx::Class (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC)
21:57 bag thanks
21:57 gmcharlt to summarize the discussion this morning
21:57 gmcharlt there's some pending disagreement about appropriate use of DBIC
21:58 gmcharlt with opinions essentially ranging between using the DBIC schema classes as is, and only adding additional layers of abstraction where absolutely needed -- representing bib records is one example
21:58 gmcharlt versus wrapping an layer over DBIC objects across the board
21:59 gmcharlt and enforcing non-DBIC in the .pl files
21:59 gmcharlt I hope I've represented the range fairly
21:59 ashimema that about covers the conversation from earlier gmcharlt
21:59 * cait agrees
21:59 rangi right
22:00 gmcharlt my personal view is the former
22:00 gmcharlt given that there's a lot of places that simply need to shovel data from DB to presentation
22:01 wajasu and i wanted to get tests written across the data access layer, possibly with NYTProf stats.
22:01 gmcharlt and other record types where only a few suplemntary methods would need to be added to the schema classes
22:01 mtompset Well, what was the purpose of bringing in the DBIC schema classes into Koha? Was it not DB-agnosticism?
22:01 gmcharlt I had made an action item for myself to write up some examples
22:01 rangi i agree
22:02 gmcharlt but I would appreciate if otehr folks would take up a small bit of functionality and also do some experimentation
22:02 rangi there is some in the elastic search stuff
22:02 larryb joined #koha
22:03 gmcharlt one thing that seems reasonably clear to me, for example, is that adding some syntax sugar to concisely fetch a object of the appropriate schema type given a known idea would be nicer than Koha::Database->...->rs()
22:03 rangi yep
22:03 wajasu i did run Test:DBIx:Class::Schema  against your master last week and it all ran through.
22:03 rangi sweet
22:03 rangi[…]design-flaws.html
22:03 rangi this is worth reading too
22:03 gmcharlt mtompset: DB-agnosticism, entering the OO-age, and reducing the need for manually-written SQL
22:04 gmcharlt but none of that is affected by the current discussion about how to structure use of DBIC
22:04 rangi exacterly
22:04 cait i think examples would be great
22:04 * ashimema looks forward to some examples that fall into the two camps.
22:05 ashimema cait.. you beat me to it again.
22:05 cait it didn't look too had when you showed us a bit at kohacon... but i haven't had a chance to look at it since
22:05 mtompset cait++ # always on the ball.
22:05 cait too hard...
22:06 gmcharlt OK, moving on
22:06 larryb apologies for joining late, but I wanted to throw out a comment regarding the index rebuild disk IO problem
22:06 gmcharlt #topic Pending Large Enhancements
22:06 Topic for #koha is now Pending Large Enhancements (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC)
22:06 gmcharlt larryb: please hold a few minutes if you don't mind
22:07 larryb sure gmcharlt
22:07 gmcharlt by large enhancements, I'm basically looking for works-in-progress that are hoped to make it in for 3.16 or 3.18, but which are not necessarily visible enough
22:07 gmcharlt and which are large enough or world-changing enough that a lot of special work may be required of the testers
22:07 gmcharlt the ones I know of include:
22:08 gmcharlt - ES
22:08 gmcharlt - the new cataloging editor
22:08 bag pianohacker: you here?
22:08 * ashimema hides.. it's at this point I brought up the logging bug in the last meeting
22:08 pianohacker yo
22:08 gmcharlt - Joobu's column-management stuff
22:08 rangi im pretty sure i wrote a patch using log4perl that did that, but i cant remember
22:08 bag alright if peeps have questions for pianohacker's rancor for large enhancements
22:08 rangi heres something to look at
22:09 gmcharlt particularly given the recent discusssions on the mailing list about ES, I want to make sure that we don't have folks quietly working on stuff
22:09 rangi bag: for pianohacker
22:09 jcamins rangi: it's on the logging bug as an attachment.
22:09 * cait promises not to quietly work on world changing things :)
22:09 ashimema rangi: yeah, you did.. there's a passed qa bug that's really still in discussion.. hotely debated earlier
22:09 rangi click on document, then switch the schema to marc21
22:09 * bag has trouble being quiet :P
22:09 francharb_afk bye all
22:10 eythian_ ashimema: what is the logging bug?
22:10 bag ah pianohacker you catch that link from rangi ?
22:10 rangi ive been working on NCIP stuff, its kinda aside to Koha
22:10 ashimema we're working on a refactoring of borrower_imports, ColinC and I are trying to get EDI back on the playing field and i'm not sure where housebound is at from our front..
22:10 rangi ie its not going to be committed to Koha
22:10 * ashimema thanks cait for reminding him about those
22:10 pianohacker rangi: yup, taking a look at it, very interesting
22:11 ashimema we're also working on ILL
22:11 bag ashimema: I'm very interested in the edi work - we've been using the stuff already submitted and not sure how much we've changed
22:11 rangi[…]ver.git;a=summary  <-- here
22:11 rangi and
22:11 ashimema eythian_: bug 8190
22:11 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8190 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Passed QA , Add a logging module to Koha
22:11 rangi
22:12 gmcharlt ashimema: say more about ILL?
22:12 eythian_ oh, I was thinking there was a bug in koha about logging :)
22:12 ashimema bag: I've spoken to khall about it.. we're on good ground with it at the moment between us.
22:12 bag awesome
22:12 ashimema should be a new patch shortly.. much cleaner and easier to maintain.
22:13 bag communication++
22:13 cait communication++
22:13 ashimema gmcharlt: ILL is not my baby i'm afraid.. colinc and mark have been working on it.. I believe it's currenty going through some refactoring to meet 3.16 guidlines
22:13 ashimema communication++
22:14 gmcharlt ashimema: pointers to more information would be great, if you wouldn't mind poking them
22:14 pianohacker I can make a patch series fairly soon, but I'm curious as to what sort of functionality would be necessary for a first series; it can save to the catalog, edit existing editors, search, etc.
22:14 ashimema i've also got a rotating collections (of european style) under development.. but that won't be ready for a while...
22:14 gmcharlt it edits editors? wow! ;)
22:14 ashimema it's more thought than code at the mo.
22:15 ashimema i'll poke gmcharlt
22:15 pianohacker oh dangit
22:15 pianohacker *edit existing gmcharlts
22:15 cait pianohacker: waht i wondered - is rancor next to the existing interface for now or trying to replace?
22:15 gmcharlt pianohacker: permission denied
22:15 gmcharlt ;)
22:15 bag pianohacker: you are editing gmcharlt
22:16 pianohacker sudo rancor gmcharlt
22:16 gmcharlt pianohacker: the functions you've outlined (save to catalog, edit exiting records, and seach) sound plenty for a first cut
22:16 ashimema not 100% sure how current this is.. but colins ILL branch is at:
22:16 pianohacker cait: Stay next to; the old editor is intended to stay around as a basic editor
22:16 gmcharlt I *really* want something out there for folks to be actively testing outside of your demo environemtn
22:16 cait pianohacker: glad to hear that :)
22:16 ashimema it's been on hold for a few months with other priorities taking hold
22:16 cait we have small libraries not used to marc21
22:17 bag cool pianohacker submit some basics :)
22:17 pianohacker Yes, definitely. I'm working on polishing up the fixed field stuff a bit then I'll send it out
22:17 bag before marseille hackfest?
22:17 cait if it is next to existing, it could maybe be experimental
22:17 cait and if it's not messing up data :)
22:18 bag yes don't submit anything that messes up data
22:18 bag :)
22:18 cait :)
22:18 pianohacker yes, either this week or early next week
22:18 bag thanks :)
22:18 gmcharlt great
22:19 gmcharlt OK
22:19 pianohacker And it _should_ round trip cleanly, doesn't try to do anything fancy with whitespace or anything like that, and should be UTF-8 clean; are there any other likely issues?
22:19 gmcharlt pianohacker: eh, making sure it doesn't trim leading/trailing whitespace unexpectedly
22:19 cait pianohacker: translations? *hides*
22:19 gmcharlt e.g., from the fixed fields and the 010$a
22:19 gmcharlt ah, yes - i18n
22:19 bag cait let's talk about that and work on that at the hackfest
22:19 pianohacker gmcharlt: Yup, the LCCN was one of my concerns
22:20 pianohacker cait: I'm working hard to make it translatable, don't worry :)
22:20 gmcharlt #topic Next meeting
22:20 Topic for #koha is now Next meeting (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC)
22:20 bag cait everything I've seen so far - isn't bad for translations
22:20 gmcharlt tenatively, a follow-up meeting has been agreed to
22:20 gmcharlt two-part like today, at 15UTC/21UTC on 12 March 2014
22:20 gmcharlt +1/-1 ?
22:20 wahanui -1
22:21 wajasu we also mentioned in prior meeting for ICU to maybe be the default for zebra.
22:21 gmcharlt right
22:21 rangi +1
22:22 pianohacker +1
22:22 cait +1 # does it count again?
22:22 eythian_ +1
22:22 gmcharlt cait: stop stuffing the ballot box ;)
22:22 cait sorry....:)
22:22 gmcharlt but seriously
22:22 gmcharlt #agreed Next dev meeting will be at 15UTC/21UTC on 12 March 2014 (pending confirmation from the second half of today's meeting)
22:23 bag +1  and good timing - during the hackfest
22:23 gmcharlt er
22:23 gmcharlt #agreed Next dev meeting will be at 15UTC/21UTC on 12 March 2014 (achivement unlocked: confirmation!)
22:23 gmcharlt #endmeeting
22:23 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha - this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software Koha 3.14.3 is the latest release! The next general IRC meeting is on 5 March 2014 18:00 UTC.
22:23 huginn` Meeting ended Tue Feb 25 22:23:25 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
22:23 huginn` Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-02-25-21.01.html
22:23 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]4-02-25-21.01.txt
22:23 huginn` Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]25-21.01.log.html
22:24 cait thx gmcharlt :)
22:24 bag larryb: you still here
22:24 larryb I am
22:24 bag let's grab eythian_ and gmcharlt while they are still listening
22:24 bag and rangi
22:24 bag yes yes and the rest of you all too :)
22:24 bag heh
22:24 * eythian_ can't stay too long, I need to go to work soon, but I can be here for a few minutes or so.
22:24 larryb it was suggested earlier that we use ionice on the rebuild_zebra cron, do prevent the disk IO freeze-up
22:25 larryb I've already tried that, using ionice -c 2 -n 7 -t
22:25 wajasu if you index on a filesystem separate from others, you might look at changing some async, noatime, etc options.
22:25 larryb unfortunately it didn't help
22:25 gmcharlt larryb: to clarify, it didn't help in that other processes were visibily blocked?
22:26 larryb using ionice on the rebuild did not help, the system still froze up
22:26 eythian_ larryb: wouldn't -c 3 be better?
22:26 larryb that's why I posted the settings I used.
22:26 larryb to see if there were any suggestions for altering them
22:26 gmcharlt yeah, definitely trice -c 3
22:26 larryb I wasn't sure I wanted to go all the way to -c
22:27 gmcharlt *try
22:27 eythian_ though it would slow down rebuilding
22:27 larryb yeah, but we already use flock on it, so we don't have a problem with stacking rebuilds
22:27 * mtompset waves bye.
22:28 larryb for some sites we've gone as far as to turn rebuilding the in the afternoon, so a slower rebuild, if it doesn't freeze up the system, would be an improvement
22:28 mtompset Have a great day, #koha. :)
22:28 eythian_ you could also try nicing the rebuild process a bit.
22:28 larryb edit "turn rebuilding off in the afternoon"
22:29 maximep left #koha
22:29 larryb I can test ionice with -c 3 and see how much longer it takes for the same number of updates
22:30 larryb eythian_ would nicing rebuild really help much if we're already ionicing it?
22:30 eythian_ it might, it might not, I don't really know :)
22:30 larryb the problem doesn't seem to be the priority of the *process*, but just the disk IO
22:31 wajasu another option may be cgroups, if that is on your debian.[…]groups-explained/
22:31 NateC joined #koha
22:31 wajasu http://fritshoogland.wordpress[…]ng-io-with-linux/
22:31 larryb I'll check those out. thanks wajasu
22:32 * eythian_ has to go now, I'll be back on in ~30 minutes or so.
22:34 thd` rangi: Are you still here?
22:35 rangi yep, working on ncip
22:35 thd` gmcharlt had requested a topic focus so I had not continued earlier ...
22:36 thd` rangi: You had mention Koha's unusual use of a persistent connection with Zebra.
22:37 thd` The degree of persistence may certainly be unusual but one can err in the other direction.
22:38 larryb left #koha
22:38 mtj hey larryb , bag  - re: the zebra disk problem, does moving zebra's /tmp dir to a ramdisk/ssd help things?
22:39 thd` rangi: My guess about the reason which the BibLibre Simple Server implementation never worked for me is that it would drop the connection before I could complete all the aspects of my request and obtain a final result set.
22:39 mtj i'm guessing the big IO is on the actual zebra index files, not any /tmp/* stuff
22:39 ashimema joined #koha
22:39 bag mtj: we haven't seen any problems with creating the /tmp files
22:39 ashimema ack.. connection died.. meeting still going on?
22:39 bag it's the actual merge of the .idx that causes the crazy I/O
22:39 bag ashimema: it's over brah
22:39 mtj yeah, ok… :/
22:39 bag sorry :)
22:39 ashimema coolios.
22:40 bag but mtj is here and he loves to talk :D
22:40 ashimema i can go to bed then ;)
22:40 cait night ashimema :)
22:40 ashimema night cait..
22:40 bag night night ashimema
22:40 ashimema lol.. night all
22:41 mtj bag, i guess you might need to resort to LVM to 'manage' system IO better…?
22:42 bag so mtj it's not so much of a problem for us - we just split zebra on a different disk - I'm just worried about the koha systems that can't afford to have two disks etc....
22:42 mtj which is a pretty big hassle for the average library :/
22:42 mtj yeah :/
22:43 bag so this has to be known for all of us :D
22:43 mtj i have bumped into problems with zebra-indexing locking up the system, under load
22:44 dcook joined #koha
22:44 mtj moving zebra to a new disk, fixed the problem nicely
22:45 mtj using an SSD would sort that problem, even better
22:46 mtj so, $100 for a 100GB SSD disk = problem solved :)
22:46 JesseM joined #koha
22:47 * mtj puts a positive spin on the problem :)
22:47 rhcl bag: more specifically are you putting mysql on a separate disk and/or only zebra?
22:47 mtj afaik only zebra ^^
22:49 mtj bag, i guess if you system is busy enough to have a 'problematic' merge load,  you can afford the SSD disk :p
22:49 mtj amirite?
22:49 wahanui
22:50 * dcook catches up on the logs
22:50 papa joined #koha
22:54 mtj i really thought ionice would have worked fine, on the zebra problem
22:55 rhcl I wonder if it happens enough to be regarded as a class-action problem?
22:58 mtj rhcl,  curious, what is class-action?
22:59 Dyrcona joined #koha
22:59 rhcl ah, derrivation of US legal term meaning "broad problem"
22:59 rhcl I abused the term a bit
23:06 eythian hi
23:06 wahanui que tal, eythian
23:07 eythian seen tcohen
23:07 wahanui tcohen was last seen on #koha 5 hours, 5 minutes and 11 seconds ago, saying: bye #koha [Tue Feb 25 18:02:08 2014]
23:07 eythian @later tell tcohen I can take a look, though I can't promise I'll be useful :) where do I find it?
23:07 huginn` eythian: The operation succeeded.
23:16 NateC joined #koha
23:16 cait left #koha
23:46 dcook hehe

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